Disney's OpenAI Investment, Nvidia Chip Deal, and Australia’s New Social Media Ban

Summary

Podcast Summary: Pivot

Episode: Disney's OpenAI Investment, Nvidia Chip Deal, and Australia’s New Social Media Ban
Date: December 12, 2025
Hosts: Kara Swisher & Scott Galloway
Producer: New York Magazine & Vox Media Podcast Network

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Overview

In this episode of Pivot, Kara Swisher and Scott Galloway tackle major tech and media headlines: Disney's billion-dollar deal with OpenAI, the implications of the Trump administration’s greenlight for Nvidia to sell AI chips to China, and Australia's landmark social media ban for users under 16. The duo also digress into the ongoing saga of media mergers, U.S. immigration policy’s tie-in with social media monitoring, and the political discourse surrounding affordability as a campaign issue. True to form, the show features sharp (and irreverent) banter, personal insights, and bold opinions.

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Table of Contents

1. Personal Banter & Health Talk (01:53–08:15)
2. Disney’s $1 Billion OpenAI Investment (08:15–13:02)
3. Nvidia Chip Sale to China: Risks & Critique (13:02–19:19)
4. CNN/Paramount, M&A, and Presidential Meddling (19:19–33:48)
5. Social Media Screening for Foreign Visitors (37:16–43:48)
6. Affordability as a 'Hoax' & Political Optics (43:48–50:49)
7. Australia Bans Social Media for Under-16s (53:39–60:53)
8. Person of the Year & Cultural Moments (63:09–68:44)
9. Notable Quotes by Segment

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<a name="health-banter"></a>

1. Personal Banter & Health Talk

(Starts ~01:53, Ends ~08:15)

• Kara teases Scott about his tardiness and her birthday.
• They share updates from health checkups, body scans, and discuss supplements like creatine and testosterone.
• Discussion includes the aging process, self-perception, managing stress, and personal happiness.
  • Kara: "I feel happy now. I feel very happy. I mean, I was happy then, I was happy that now." (07:30)
  • Both riff amusingly about age, body image, and who "invented fire."

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<a name="disney-openai"></a>

2. Disney’s $1 Billion OpenAI Investment

(Starts ~08:15, Ends ~13:02)

• Disney announced a $1 billion investment in OpenAI, allowing users to generate videos with Disney characters via OpenAI's Sora, but not using actors’ likenesses or voices.
• Kara lauds the strategic move for both companies and points out OpenAI’s need for a PR win.
  • Kara: "This is inevitable that they're, they're either going to steal it. And one thing that happened with YouTube is... it took too long, right, to do what is now very lucrative for everybody." (11:14)
• Scott raises legal and cultural implications:
  • Why pay for Disney IP but not other rights?
  • Concern over potential future lawsuits.
• Banter about the selection of "classic" characters rather than modern ones and the possible lack of real business substance behind the press release.
  • Scott: "This is smart for both of them. I don't know if it's gonna amount to anything, but it's a good press release." (10:50)
  • Kara notes the move is a hedge against inevitable copyright infringement—someone will use the characters, so Disney might as well monetize via partnership.

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<a name="nvidia-china"></a>

3. Nvidia Chip Sale to China: Risks & Critique

(Starts ~13:02, Ends ~19:19)

• Trump administration is permitting Nvidia to sell H200 AI chips to China for a 25% Treasury cut.
• Kara summarizes widespread criticism: "Why would the President give away one of America's chief technological advantage to an adversary and its chief economic competitor?" (16:11)
• Scott’s analysis:
  • The embargo led China to innovate workarounds, potentially accelerating their AI arms race.
  • Ideally, US should "give the Chinese just enough chip technology that it grows our economy and our champions, but we still maintain a lead." (15:01)
  • Worries about chips’ use for military AI and weapons systems.
  • Sees Trump’s decision as motivated by lobbying and lacking strategic foresight.
  • "We gave a strategic competitor AI progress, stronger military capability… and in exchange, what we got was Nvidia stocks going to go up and 25, whatever." (18:23)
• Both hosts agree a better deal or none at all would have been preferable.

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<a name="media-mergers"></a>

4. CNN/Paramount, M&A, and Presidential Meddling

(Starts ~19:19, Ends ~33:48)

• Trump says CNN "must be sold" as a condition in the Warner Brothers/Paramount deal.
  • Kara: “President is not supposed to say things like this, but of course whatever.” (19:24)
  • Trump is also rumored to be micromanaging suitors for CNN, making them promise changes if their deals go through.
• Scott details how buyers with the most money typically win media acquisitions—with antitrust and security review as the only systemic guardrails (often circumvented).
  • “The way it should work: biggest check wins initially, then it goes under antitrust review, then national security review.” (22:56)
• Concerns with foreign capital, especially Gulf or China-linked funding—questions of free speech, influence, and transparency.
• Side conversation on history of bad mergers and testosterone-fueled bidding wars (AOL/Time Warner, Paramount, etc.), with cautionary tales and character analysis of the major players.
  • Kara: "It’s a yacht that’s leaking and that’s what he’s bought." (29:36)
  • Scott: "More than anything, testosterone gets involved… This is why two-thirds of mergers don't work." (27:25)

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<a name="social-media-screening"></a>

5. Social Media Screening for Foreign Visitors

(Starts ~37:16, Ends ~43:48)

• New Trump policy would have U.S. customs reviewing social media profiles of travelers from 42 visa-waiver countries.
• Kara is incredulous at the proposal: "In the free speech nation… I can't believe they're even considering looking at people's social media." (37:16)
• Scott distinguishes between screening for citizenship/long-term visas and regular tourism:
  • “The bar has to be pretty fucking low to gain entry to come in and spend money.” (41:55)
  • Warns U.S. is already losing tourism revenue due to hostile policies.
• Both agree reviewing social media for ordinary tourists is absurd and bad for the U.S. economy and soft power.

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<a name="affordability-politics"></a>

6. Affordability as a 'Hoax' & Political Optics

(Starts ~43:48, Ends ~50:49)

• Trump dismisses affordability as the new "hoax" in a public speech, ridiculing campaign focus on cost of living.
  • Kara describes Trump as meandering, low-energy, and disconnected from real economic pain.
  • Scott shares stark statistics on health, housing, and affordability:
    • "27% of respondents have skipped a medical checkup because of costs... a quarter have skipped a prescription..." (45:11)
  • Both criticize politicians of all stripes for failing to offer serious structural solutions to affordability—instead reaching for "band-aid" fixes.

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<a name="australia-ban"></a>

7. Australia Bans Social Media for Under-16s

(Starts ~53:39, Ends ~60:53)

• Australia bans social media access for users under 16; platforms like TikTok and Instagram face heavy fines for violations.
• U.S. state-level action in Florida cited as similar.
• Kara and Scott strongly favor collective action over parental control alone:
  • Scott: "Unless this is collective action through legislation… only then can you fix it. Otherwise, only the ostracized kids are really off those platforms." (56:16)
• Scott credits Jonathan Haidt’s work for triggering real legislative change and urges other countries to follow Australia’s lead.
• Data points:
  • Instagram made $4B from 13-to-17 year olds in 2022.
  • 53% of U.S. kids own a smartphone by 11.
  • U.S. teens spend ~5 hours/day on social media.

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<a name="person-year"></a>

8. Person of the Year & Cultural Moments

(Starts ~63:09, Ends ~68:44)

• Time honored "The Architects of AI" as Person(s) of the Year, but Scott and Kara offer alternatives:
  • Scott: MacKenzie Scott, for her philanthropy (“different approach to what I'll call feminine giving”). (63:35)
  • Kara: K-Pop Demon Hunters (and a nod to Taylor Swift), focusing on culture’s role in uniting and inspiring.
  • Both agree the Time pick is "a snooze"—the real impact stories are elsewhere.
• Scott shares a formative mentoring story about leadership and effectiveness from Bob Swanson, Genentech founder.

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Notable Quotes by Segment

Disney & OpenAI

• Kara, on inevitability of deals: “They’re either going to steal it. … Figure out a way you can do a deal.” (11:14)
• Scott: “I don't know if it amounts to anything. It's a good press release.” (10:50)

Nvidia Chips to China

• Scott: “We gave a strategic competitor AI progress, stronger military capability, likely a more … innovative tech ecosystem, while exposing all of our own firms to regulatory, geopolitical and long term competitive risks.” (18:23)
• Kara: “He’s the worst deal maker in America.” (18:23)

CNN/Paramount Saga

• Scott: “Biggest check wins… then (it) goes under antitrust review… under national security review.” (22:55)
• Kara: “It’s a yacht that’s leaking and that’s what he’s bought.” (29:36)

Social Media Screening

• Kara: “I can't believe they're even considering looking at people's social media. Like, what do you fucking care if you think Marco Rubio is dickless? Which I do. And I will say on social media, this is insane from a business point of view, correct?” (37:22)
• Scott: “The bar has to be pretty fucking low to gain entry to come in and spend money.” (41:55)

Affordability

• Scott: “Affordability requires an adult conversation and long term structural solutions. Are we ready for an adult conversation around housing, medical care, tuition costs, and antitrust?” (48:30)
• Kara: “But from a marketing point of view, him making fun of it, I don't even understand what the theory is here except that he has frontal lobe dementia.” (47:41)

Australia’s Social Media Ban

• Scott: “This was the most generous accretive gift to kids likely in Australian history.” (54:55)
• Kara: “Parents should get off their phones when they're in front of their kids… But it is incredible. It's too hard to use and it's not your fault, parents… It's their responsibility.” (58:05)

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TL;DR

Disney’s $1B OpenAI investment is less about immediate returns, more about protecting IP and prepping for inevitable AI/copyright disruption. Nvidia’s chip deal with China is widely panned: short-term profit for U.S. firms, long-term strategic risk for America. In media mergers, money wins over logic or ethics, with presidential interference raising red flags. U.S. immigration screening via social media is blasted as bad for business and American values. Affordability is the campaign issue both parties avoid with real solutions; Trump’s mockery only hurts himself. Australia’s social media ban is hailed as a real win for kids and a model for the world. Hosts close by rejecting the notion that tech billionaires are the real “persons of the year,” instead lauding philanthropists and culture that unites.

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For Listeners Who Missed the Episode

Pivot remains a must-listen for unfiltered tech/business commentary with equal parts information, humor, and shouted exasperation. This episode sees Kara and Scott skewer both the powerful and the institutions meant to check them, all while offering insight, irreverence, and a dose of real-world data for context.

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(Timestamps are approximate.)

Transcript

[Scott Galloway]

Support for the show comes from Crucible Moments, a podcast from Sequoia Capital. It's tempting to think that if you have a good idea and work hard, success is inevitable. But the truth is that almost every company, no matter how brilliant the idea or how steadfast the founders, will encounter unthinkable obstacles that can make or break them. Crucible Moments is a podcast that takes listeners inside the inflection points and make today's most influential companies what they are today. Listen to Crucible Moments and hear about unlikely triumphs at Supercell, Palo Alto Networks and more. Check out cruciblemoments.com or listen wherever you get your podcasts.

[Podcast Sponsor Voice 1]

Support for this show comes from SC Johnson. We've all been there. Choosing not to wear your new white shoes because there's a 10% chance of rain. Bending awkwardly over the tiny coffee table to enjoy a sip of your latte, not ordering the red sauce. Those feelings of dread are what we call stainxiety. But now you can break free from your stainxiety with Shout's Triple Acting Spray that has stain fighting ingredients to remove a huge variety of of stains so you can live in the moment and clean up later. Just breathe and Shout with Shout Triple Acting Spray. Learn [e-mail].

[Scott Galloway]

Support for the show comes from Odoo. Running a business is hard enough, so why make it harder? With a dozen different apps that don't talk to each other, Introducing Odoo. It's the only business software you'll ever need. It's an all in one fully integrated platform that makes your work easier. CRM, accounting, inventory, E commerce, and more. And the best part? Odoo replaces multiple expensive platforms for a fraction of the cost. That's why over thousands of businesses have made the switch. So why not you try Odoo for [e-mail] that's o d o o.com.

[Kara Swisher]

Let me just say you're late to the podcast. No Happy birthday. I see no present. Several moguls sent me presents. Not you. Hi everyone, this is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Kara Swisher and Scott was late for my birthday.

[Scott Galloway]

So look, this is a big one. 73.

[Kara Swisher]

It's not 73. That's you my friend.

[Scott Galloway]

I'm much younger than you.

[Kara Swisher]

I'm much younger than you by like two months.

[Scott Galloway]

I'm much younger than you. And plus for men, 60 is the new 40 and for women, 30 is the new 80. Why does that make me happy?

[Kara Swisher]

All right, let's Talk.

[Scott Galloway]

Happy birthday, Kara.

[Kara Swisher]

Let's talk about you.

[Scott Galloway]

But who bought you? I think I gave you one of the best gifts I've ever given anybody. Do you even know what it was?

[Kara Swisher]

I don't because I got caviar from my mom. My kids drew the most beautiful drawings. My son's called. What? What? What? What did you buy?

[Scott Galloway]

I gave you that adorable photo of us.

[Kara Swisher]

Oh, you did? Was that a birthday present? That was just.

[Scott Galloway]

No, I don't. I don't. I like giving.

[Kara Swisher]

It's back there.

[Scott Galloway]

I actually think I'm a decent gift giver. I don't give gifts when people are expecting them because then I think it's just like, oh, currency.

[Kara Swisher]

I see. Okay.

[Scott Galloway]

I don't know. I find it anyways. But look, in her eighth decade. You've really got a lot to be proud of. And you're wearing. Why are you wearing an NYU sweatshirt?

[Kara Swisher]

Because I. It's the clean one, actually. No. I don't know. I was thinking of Louis today and not you, but Lou went there and I like it. He gave it to me, and I just. I like purple. Felt like a day for purple since my birthday. It's a purple day. I like it. Yesterday I had one of those, you know, head to toe body scan. I had the body scan a couple months ago, and they gave me the results, and I'm going to be here for a while. Scott Galloway. That's all I have to tell you.

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah, they just saw anger.

[Kara Swisher]

No.

[Scott Galloway]

And okay.

[Kara Swisher]

No, they said, actually interestingly, shocking amounts of ability to. I have, like, calm genes all over the fucking whatever they are. And I was sort of shocked. They're like, you don't seem to be ever stressed. I'm like, yes, I'm always stressed, but it works for me. It was really interesting, actually, to hear all the different things. I have to take creatine. What do you think about that?

[Scott Galloway]

I try to take creatine every day. I'm having a lot of trouble keeping muscle mass on.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, me too. That was the one thing.

[Scott Galloway]

I've struggled with it my whole life. I'm what's called an ectomorph. I think I'm also. Do you have body dysmorphia? Do you feel good about your body?

[Kara Swisher]

I don't. I feel great about myself.

[Scott Galloway]

Oh, God, here we go. Me, too.

[Kara Swisher]

I think I'm adorable.

[Scott Galloway]

That's good. That's a blessing.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah.

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah.

[Kara Swisher]

I like to be taller, but that's whatever you.

[Scott Galloway]

What you'd like to be 5:1.

[Kara Swisher]

Well, at your age, at your age.

[Scott Galloway]

Your spine begins to curve.

[Kara Swisher]

I have to take cocutin, things like that. There's a few supplements I need to.

[Scott Galloway]

Why does that make me so happy?

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, I'm going to take testosterone soon. That's what I'm taking.

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah. Do you take it in a powder form or in the chewable form?

[Kara Swisher]

I have never. They said powder. They said it's better. There's like different. If you take different things, you should take them. Like, they were like, I have to have more fiber. I was like, can I just take like Metamucil or whatever? They're like, no, you have to eat vegetables. They were like, no, that's not a great way to get it.

[Scott Galloway]

Creatine? No, creatine's like anything else.

[Kara Swisher]

No, not creatine. Like, if I also have to take some more fiber, I also have to do a little more fiber. But in that they said, don't take the fiber supplements, take fiber. Like actual food.

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah, creatine. So there's. I had. Oh, God, that brilliant guy from Stanford, who's the psychedelics guy.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah.

[Scott Galloway]

Talking about drugs and I said, what is.

[Kara Swisher]

Michael Pollan?

[Scott Galloway]

Michael Pollan, thank you.

[Kara Swisher]

No, he's not from Stanford, but go ahead.

[Scott Galloway]

I should have him on. He's not from Stanford. What's he from? Is he from Berkeley?

[Kara Swisher]

He's sort of. He's a journalist, but go ahead.

[Scott Galloway]

Sort of, Yeah. I said, I love to be high, I love substances, but I want the maximum free lunch in terms of feeling good to not feeling bad. And he said that the freest lunch was caffeine, which I thought was really interesting.

[Kara Swisher]

That was in his book. That was in his book talking about.

[Scott Galloway]

And then the freest lunch among, I think endocrinologists or people, actually, not the supplements people, which are a pipeline to red pill, just as these ring light therapists are a pipeline to excusing economic precarity and just telling everyone they need to work on themselves anyways. But the supposedly the freest lunch in supplements, if you will, is in fact creatine. And I did creatine for the first time when I was, I think in my 30s or 40s, and it put on five to seven pounds of lean muscle mass, which would literally take me two years of working out with heavy weights.

[Kara Swisher]

Wow. Okay.

[Scott Galloway]

Wow.

[Kara Swisher]

So many.

[Scott Galloway]

A lot of people now are on creatine. It's really.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, I do need more muscle. I have not enough muscle, which is interesting. I was thinking this morning, I have like another 30, 20 good years. 10 maybe good years. Like the last 10. But at the same time as I was sitting in the shower, I was like, okay, I have this many years, this many to do this. And I thought, oh, that's long enough. That's all I thought. That's the first thing that popped into my head. That's long enough.

[Scott Galloway]

When do you think you were your happiest?

[Kara Swisher]

Oh, now.

[Scott Galloway]

Oh, good.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah. I have something Amanda and I talked about this thing around the stress is like that you don't seem to collect stress. And I was, I was like, you know, I do things and then I move on and I forget about them. I don't mull before and I don't mull after. I just move along as very easily, which is, I think, a good thing.

[Scott Galloway]

That is a good thing.

[Kara Swisher]

I feel happy now. I feel very happy. I mean, I was happy then, I was happy that now.

[Scott Galloway]

I've never really sensed a lot of stress from you. Very good at managing stress, but I mean, you literally are the longest serving tech journalist. I remember the first interview you did about technology was talking to the guy who invented fire.

[Kara Swisher]

That was a good technology.

[Scott Galloway]

That's good.

[Kara Swisher]

That was a hell of a good technology. Anyway, we've got a lot to get to today.

[Scott Galloway]

When you interviewed that company, the hottest startup that had started this thing called electricity.

[Kara Swisher]

Right. I got that very. What else? What else? Dirt. When I invented. When I talked to the guy who invented dirt.

[Scott Galloway]

Now you're so old. You interviewed Zuckerberg back when he had human emotions.

[Kara Swisher]

He never did. He never did.

[Scott Galloway]

That's pretty good.

[Podcast Sponsor Voice 2]

He never did.

[Kara Swisher]

So that's not true. Anyway, we've got a lot to get to today. There is a lot to get to, including Trump calling affordability a hoax, which is not a good idea. Australia's new social media ban. So much. There's so much going on. But first, Disney just announced a $1 billion equity investment in OpenAI and will allow users to make videos with its characters on Sora. Characters available through the deal will include Mickey Mouse and Cinderella as well as Frozen. The agreements do not include any talent, likeness or voices, meaning the people like the John Cena's, whoever, the different people that are in their movies. Scott, I don't want to know what you want to make Mickey Mouse do, but what do you think of this? This is interesting. And I actually texted Iger, I go look at you, Mr. Tech. But it was interesting, sort of. Especially since OpenAI really needs a win right now, which we'll go into in a minute, but any thoughts on this?

[Scott Galloway]

I think it's Smart of both of them. I probably would have. Well, Disney gets to do what it wants, but I probably would have gone with Google and Gemini. But I think it's smart. Disney needs some AI tech pixie dust over a company that is. I mean, literally. Iger is the guy that decided to volunteer to go back to Vietnam. And he's getting. He's getting as they shot. Shot up everywhere.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah. His ass fragged is the expression you're looking for. Yeah.

[Scott Galloway]

Instead, he could just be sitting on a beach somewhere, heckling from the cheap seats about the new CEO facing all this bullshit. But anyways, he's back. But to do. To announce. This is a great press release for Disney. The IP and the characters are really interesting. It'll be interesting to see what they do. I don't know if it amounts to anything.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah. I think all these people will be doing these deals, right? Like, there's not a media company. I thought Joanna Stern was funny. She goes, look at this hype. Isn't it neat? Wouldn't you think My bubble's complete. Which was cute. There's so many good jokes.

[Scott Galloway]

What's weird is they did sort of their. What I'll call their tired characters. I mean, Mickey Mouse and Cinderella, I sort of get. Well, maybe it's cause I'm just. I've aged out of that shit.

[Kara Swisher]

But no, they're old ones. My kids know Mickey Mouse and they do like Cinderella. Clara likes Cinderella. But the main characters are the new ones, like the Frozen characters or Moana. Yeah, Moana's one. They're coming out with live versions. I think there's a new Frozen coming out, and I think the live version of Moana's coming out. There's a trailer for it. But. Yeah. And yes. Yes, I would agree with you. I don't think they're picking the most recent characters that kids today like. But they're classics. Right?

[Scott Galloway]

This is smart for both of them. I don't know if it's gonna amount to anything, but it's a good press release.

[Kara Swisher]

No lawsuits.

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah. It's smart. And the question is. Or what I would want to know is, does it end up being some sort of supporting evidence for why OpenAI should not be using other characters and identities when they're willing to pay for these ones but not others? So I don't.

[Kara Swisher]

So it just depends on what I would use? All like, what's the difference? You're in for a dime, you're in for a dollar. People are stealing it anyway. Why not have it License didn't get money from it. I don't know. It just seems like, look, this is inevitable that they're, they're either going to steal it. And one thing that happened with YouTube is it as a, you know, as it took too long, right, to do what is now very lucrative for everybody. Right? And the question is, who is it more lucrative for? But it's inevitable. And so I think, you know, YouTube could have done it sooner and the companies, instead of, remember Philip Philippe Dauman, did the lawsuit. They were going to steal it anyway, guys. So figure out a way you can do a deal with them. And I think a lot of them, including TikTok, is open to doing deals with. Is wanting and open to doing deals with these companies. And they should, as long as they're. It protects their. It puts you in partnership with them to get rid of cheaters, I guess, presumably.

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah, I don't know. The whole Disney, I'm not sure. It's just so unrealistic and, and bias against men like Snow White lived in the woods with seven men and somehow none of them were, somehow none of them were emotionally available. I just think that's unrealistic. I think that's unfair to men. And by the way, the big moral lesson from Aladdin is that theft is wrong. Unless you're hot and have a pet monkey with main character energy.

[Kara Swisher]

Do you know when you watch that, they still have the this is a really tasteless movie warning on it when you watch it, which is interesting. Like, you know, depictions of, of Arab figures and stuff like that. Same thing on. There's a couple of movies like that when I was just watching. I have to say, though, one that you put the older ones up. Clara loves Mermaid. She loves Cinderella. She loves Snow White. She likes the new Snow White, the old Snow White.

[Scott Galloway]

You know, Winnie Poo is the original influencer. He's. He's naked, addicted to honey, and lives with a bunch of deeply dysfunctional woodland friends.

[Kara Swisher]

Okay, all right, enough fragging of poor Bob Iger. But speaking of AI, speaking of fragging, President Trump will allow Nvidia to sell H200 ships to. Reaction to move are muted, actually negative. With Nvidia stocks slightly down, critics warning it could advance Chinese AI capabilities. Gosh, the Wall Street Journal really took them to town on this thing, essentially. And everybody did. Ian Bremmer did a whole bunch of people. And the idea is like, look, they're getting all the stuff and Nvidia is getting what it wants. That's it. The American public doesn't benefit in any Way from this. So it seems like Jensen Huang's full court press of wearing his leather jacket and hanging around Donald Trump and praising him has worked here. This is what he wanted.

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah, I'm mixed on this because when we didn't sell them our chips, it feels to me like they got to work on workarounds. I think the policy, it's like, this is why we need Gia Raimondo back in charge of this shit, because this stuff is not black and white. And I like the idea. I like the idea of slowballing it. And that is giving them enough access to our chips such that they didn't make a statewide massive investment in innovation of their own. In other words, cable companies would pay content companies just enough such that they could. It didn't make sense for them to go to other means of distribution, but not enough. But, you know, not enough such that they were more powerful than the distribution players. I would have thought, I would have just tried to get every economist in the room and say, okay, how. How can we give the Chinese just enough chip technology that it grows our economy and our champions? But we still maintain a lead because when we did embargo, there was a very solid argument that all you do when you embargo China from doing this is they come up with workarounds that are really innovative. So the problems I have are autonomous weapons, supercomputing, military simulations. And the problem is, with high end GPUs, it can dramatically reduce the training time for combat algorithms and missile targeting and cyber warfare and drone storms. And the reality is, I just don't trust Hegseth to get in a room with our Commerce Secretary and kind of figure this shit out on a thoughtful level. I think essentially, Jensen Huang has likely said, we're very supportive of you. You're handsome, and Nvidia should get involved in your next renovation and.

[Kara Swisher]

Right, exactly.

[Scott Galloway]

So I don't. Unfortunately, I dislike this almost as much. It's probably more impactful, but no less or more egregious than Witkoff's kids and the Trump kids getting money for their shitcoin investment in exchange for us agreeing to sell chips to the uae, who has not proven that they don't have a leaky boat in terms of sending chip technology to Russia or China itself. We just don't have thoughtful people figuring this out.

[Guest or Expert Speaker]

No.

[Kara Swisher]

Well, this is. I have to say, the Journal was very explicit. President Trump said this week he will let Nvidia sell H200 chips to China in return for US treasury getting 25% cut. Of the sales, the Indians struck a better deal when they sold Manhattan to the Dutch. Why would the President give away one of America's chief technological advantage to an adversary and its chief economic competitor? And they do say they're going to do it anyway. But he said. Yet now Mr. Trump wants to sell the advanced H200 without strings. The question is why. Nvidia CEO Jensen Huang has lobbied for loosening the restrictions. The company's friends in the White House argued that doing so could retard. Could retard China's drive to develop competing chips and make its AI developers dependent on US chips. That's their best argument. And it went on to say, no, this is really bad on every. And what we get is bupkis. Essentially.

[Scott Galloway]

It's a great point. We should have, at a minimum, we should have gotten more. If you look at in the last five years, it's gone from 17% of exports to the US to 10%. They have vastly reduced their dependence on us. I get that. What is asymmetric in the trading relationship with everybody is that China since 2019 has increased its exports 40%.

[Kara Swisher]

Correct. That's what they were saying. We got more. Yeah.

[Scott Galloway]

Meanwhile has only increased their imports buying other people's products by 1%. So they've decided we'll sell you everything. We at a minimum, should have extracted a pound of flesh here. That said, okay, you need to open your markets for the following things for us, but this is not only that, the waterfall effect. Huawei will be a much more competitive.

[Kara Swisher]

Product and they make great products. And this is the last line. We sure hope Mr. Trump isn't doing this for Nvidia's 25% tax payments to Treasury. The Constitution bests taxing power in Congress. Yet Mr. Trump is essentially trading national security for pennies on the dollar. So I would agree he's gotten nothing for this. Even with the H20 chips. We got some rare earth minerals. I think at the time he said the administration agreed, but they put more restrictions in October. So just. This is stupid. He's the worst deal maker in America.

[Scott Galloway]

We gave a strategic competitor AI progress, stronger military capability, likely a more kind of self sufficient or innovative tech ecosystem, while exposing all of our own firms to regulatory, geopolitical and long term competitive risks. And in exchange, what we got was Nvidia stocks going to go up and 25, whatever.

[Kara Swisher]

It's just Jensen Huang is the most, and I mean this as a compliment, manipulative CEO there is and he gets what he wants and it's all good. For Nvidia.

[Scott Galloway]

I hate to say this but Jensen and Ted Sarandos and all these guys.

[Kara Swisher]

Who.

[Scott Galloway]

When they go to meet with the president the only thing they repeat over in their heads over and over is don't forget to swallow.

[Kara Swisher]

Right.

[Scott Galloway]

These guys are the most obsequious but.

[Kara Swisher]

They get what they want.

[Scott Galloway]

But that's their I hate to say that's their job.

[Kara Swisher]

They were there yesterday and it's our.

[Scott Galloway]

Job to elect people who will push back on this bullshit.

[Kara Swisher]

By the way, they were there yesterday that fed head dead. Head fed dead. Whatever. He's losing his mind. All right. Speaking of losing your mind, Trump says it's imperative that CNN be sold in Warner Brothers deal. President is not supposed to say things like this but of course whatever it's this one. Conveniently David Ellison has reportedly told Trump officials that Paramount wins out. He'll make sweeping changes at cnn. What a cuck he is. Although Trump got a little testy with the Ellisons this week, lashing out on truth social after 60 Minutes ran an interview with Marjorie Taylor Greene. Meanwhile, Ellison has been pitching Warner shareholders got apparently Mario Gabelli interested trying to tender their shares. I feel like I've talked to a lot of people here all this week and money's gonna win out here but the kind like people would have lost their minds if they're and this was in the Wall Street Journal also that he has told them he will, you know he will change CNN as part of the deal. When one of Oliver Darcy told me when he tried and he wrote when he tried to get a comment they didn't, they're like what are you talking about? Like they didn't even deny it that they were doing that making this paper. You know we'll stop CNN for being so mean to you Mr. President if you give us thing that would have been a four alarm journalistic fire at any other time. Not with these.

[Scott Galloway]

Well imagine if Obama had said that when Fox was trying to merge with.

[Kara Swisher]

Disney or whatever it was exactly like just it does. I'm not going to imagine it. It's bad, it's bad now it's bad then it's bad all the time. I mean again it's sort of absolutely puts solidifies I'm walking right out of there the day they get there. Like I'm walking. There's no way I'm working for these terrible people. But and I've said, I said that on an interview with Rachel Maddow because she was asking me but but money. Let's go to the Deal. Regardless of what they do with CNN and what they're doing is heinous. What they're considering doing is heinous. The money wins out here. It's the, it's. If they go up to 34, I understand. They will get this. They will get this.

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah, we had, I thought we had a really productive conversation around this. And the way this is supposed to work is that the one with the most money wins. At least initially. At least initially. It's meant to be a competent. It doesn't fucking matter what the President thinks or it shouldn't matter.

[Kara Swisher]

No, it doesn't.

[Scott Galloway]

And quite frankly, it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter what podcast, who podcasters think would be, quote, unquote, better owners. The person that shows up with the biggest check in capitalism in a single class shareholder company, which this is, gets the prize. And then subject to the following Regulators bring in economists and econometrics experts and consumer behavior experts, and they try and discern whether or not the very valid argument you made that this is in fact one big market for eyeballs, or if it's a distinct market because it's original content creation and a subscriber model. And they make a call around whether or not this will reduce competition and leak value and leverage from consumers and labor to the shareholders of the consolidated ecosystem or not. And then it goes through an additional. I think it's called I used to do this for a living. And then it goes through something called, I think it's called a CFIUS review that says. All right.

[Kara Swisher]

Right. Which they're just under. They just made it so they're just under. Just so you know, but go ahead. They're just under all the Mideast countries in this deal. What they did is they manipulated it so that these numbers that it doesn't.

[Scott Galloway]

Have to go through, the bottom line is there should be a national security review that says but there's not going.

[Kara Swisher]

To be because of the way they designed it.

[Scott Galloway]

Well, I know, but I'm talking about what should happen.

[Kara Swisher]

Correct.

[Scott Galloway]

Look, what will happen is totally like upper grabs in a corrupt kleptocracy that is a mix between. Is a mix between 60s East Germany, 30s Germany, a kleptocracy and a Kakastocracy pickerocracy. That's just fucking stupid or evil. But the way it should work is biggest check wins initially. Then it goes under antitrust review by thoughtful people to figure out if it's going to reduce competition and harm consumers and labor. And then it should Go under National Security Review. And let me be. Let me be clear. I actually don't think raising money out of the Gulf for an acquisition like this, I don't perceive that as a threat.

[Kara Swisher]

Oh, come on. It's media. We lost our minds.

[Scott Galloway]

I was the largest shareholder on the board of the New York Times. I got to meet with the editorial board once and couldn't say anything and had absolutely no influence over the editorial product there. And I had two seats on the board, so. And also, we have to keep in mind that all the money right now is in the Gulf. And if we want access to our capital for our companies to create more competition and more tax revenue, at some point, we need to access that capital. Having said that, I would like a review by people much smarter than me to go, this is why. It's a risk to our free speech and they will have undue influence. Or someone go, you know, if you put these safeguards in place, it's just a cheap source of capital. My point is there are people who do this for a living and are really good at this and should be part of a review. Instead, it's based on the blood sugar level and the opinion, unfortunately, of the president, who gives them money and what TV anchor or podcast he listened to. Most recently, we have institutions and experts and. Let me use the word. Which has become a dirty word. We have experts for a reason.

[Kara Swisher]

All right, let me. Let me interject here. First of all, they're designing it so they also had tencent in here until they were in place, but tencent had come out. They knew that would.

[Scott Galloway]

I'm sorry, go ahead.

[Kara Swisher]

First of all, they hid the idea of the. They didn't hide it, but they put it on one of the last pages of the Saudis and the others were involved. Secondly, they added Jared Kushner just to put icing on this shitty cake. Thirdly, they had 10 cent in there, and then they didn't. I mean, this is how they're thinking, right? And honestly, I want to know, Larry, if you're so fucking rich, why don't you just pay for it? If you believe in this so much? You're an American, it's an American media company. Why do you need their money? I get why you would get it. I'm not unsophisticated, but here's what it does. There's a woman, Gail Slater, at Antitrust. She's well regarded. He has now put her in such a fucking jam like she can't do her job because now she's sucked up into politics versus doing a real antitrust. Look at this, right as we talked about, which is streaming prices, where's the market, et cetera. That's an issue. It has also put the CFIUS people in a jam because they can't look at this, which is their job. And by the way, I don't even trust them anymore given all the Yuxes and yahoos. They put a person in charge of FEMA that was an election denialist, like a really severe one, as opposed to just a sort of casual garden variety election denier. It's just they're putting incompetence and loyalists in place and nobody's gonna be able to do their job here because of what Trump is doing and how he has been staffing his administration and how he's. The only thing that I find amusing is that he's not sort of just giving in to the Ellisons, he's making them beg for it, essentially by kissing up to Ted Sarandos. Now the question is, will Netflix raise its price? Will it say do an all cash deal, go to 30 and then have that stub of a company. But Bill Cohen talked to me about and he's written about is they go to 30 and then the question is what's the value of that stub? Ellison's are valuing it at a dollar or a little more than a dollar. And others, like pretty well known analysts, are valuing it at anywhere from three to $5. And so that makes their deal higher than the Ellisons. But what if the Ellison just go to 34 cash? There's, you know, that's the whole situation. I think most of the arbs just want the money and move along. Right. Presumably.

[Scott Galloway]

This is like the venture capital community. Whoever comes up with 2 cents more, I'll make out with my cousin. It's just.

[Kara Swisher]

You didn't make out with your cousin, did you?

[Scott Galloway]

I did. And you know what? He's a very good kisser. Snow White asked for an AI for relationship advice.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah.

[Scott Galloway]

And it responded maybe don't move in with seven dudes from Craigslist next time.

[Kara Swisher]

Very funny.

[Scott Galloway]

I like that one. Yeah.

[Kara Swisher]

Okay.

[Scott Galloway]

I don't. This is why two thirds of mergers don't work. And it's playing out here. We'll wring our hands about antitrust, about someone in the Gulf having undue influence over CNN around the Ellisons getting their nose so far up Trump's ass that they'll guarantee that they'll just start filling CNN with Tucker Carlson on, on 24 hour loop or Something. But this is why this acquisition will most likely fail from a shareholder perspective. And that is one, you have a tendency. We have a tendency as an acquirer to overestimate synergies, underestimate cultural impact. And three, more than anything, testosterone gets involved. And that is. I can guarantee you, that when all of these companies were looking at this, this is a company that was trading at nine bucks a share recently.

[Kara Swisher]

Seven, I thought. Was it down at seven or that.

[Scott Galloway]

All of these guys said, okay, scarce assets, one of a kind properties. We don't want this in the hands of competitors. Wow. This is an opportunity to consolidate the streaming market. Netflix, wow. We really need this to bulk up. Paramount, we could do great things with the cable and the streaming. Comcast. And we need something to reignite growth. They all came up with really strong strategic reasons to stretch to. All right, if we could get this for 19, maybe 20. We can't go any higher than 20.

[Kara Swisher]

Because the initial offer from David Ellison.

[Scott Galloway]

Right. We can't go any higher than 24. And this is what happens. Testosterone takes over.

[Kara Swisher]

Do you think it is. It's like, oh, we're only a couple.

[Scott Galloway]

Bucks away from being king and taking the ultimate victory lap and pulling. If Ellison mass, if he massively overpays for this thing, every business cover will be the winner. The winner.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah. And we're at AOL Time Warner with Ted Turner and Steve Cage.

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah. The winner. What a deal of the century. And Steve Case is now like, oh, my God, I just sold this guy a bag of shit.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's what David Zaslov was thinking about.

[Scott Galloway]

But these guys have already. I can promise you they have already blown way beyond a price they would have never, ever considered.

[Kara Swisher]

They can't make it work. They cannot. It's just a rich. It's a yacht. Like, it's a yacht that's leaking and that's what he's bought. I mean, I mean, the problem is. But if you just. On the face of it, in terms of synergies, Comcast or Netflix are the better buyers. They have all, like, Netflix could blow out Game of Thrones. They could blow out. They have the world, you know, the worldwide distribution network. They, they, they could do a lot with this, and they don't.

[Scott Galloway]

And they're shopping with, with, with, with expensive stock. Their credit card is fully loaded.

[Kara Swisher]

Exactly right. Well, not as expensive it was, but they were the best owner is between these two. By the every single metric, they're the better owner. And I know better.

[Scott Galloway]

Do you mean in terms of Synergy.

[Kara Swisher]

What do you mean, synergy? How it works. What they're gonna. They're not gonna do as many layoffs. They ab. And the only thing cbs this whole gang can do is is put together like problematic assets and they don't have a plan for doing anything else. I mean, the only thing that's happening is, as I've said before, David Ellison is a very nice guy, but he's monumentally unqualified to do this. That hasn't stopped him. But he is the oldest boy with daddy's backing and that's a prescription for a bad merger.

[Scott Galloway]

Okay.

[Kara Swisher]

Also, I don't think his movies made so much money.

[Scott Galloway]

Well, okay. And Zaslav's gonna walk away with a billion dollars for destroying. I mean, we can make a big.

[Kara Swisher]

Speaking of winner.

[Scott Galloway]

And Netflix is, in my view, who I love is going to basically endgame streaming and prices are gonna go up. I think you can make an. But here's the thing. We don't get to decide who would be qualitatively the best owner or the worst. The guy who runs at and T is a really smart, nice man. I like him a lot. He was probably the wrong owner for cnn.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, I agree.

[Scott Galloway]

But he showed up with the biggest check. So Jeff Buka said, congrats, it's yours.

[Kara Swisher]

That guy. Smart. Another smart guy. He got out when the getting's good.

[Scott Galloway]

Okay, hold on, just pause there.

[Kara Swisher]

But he did call Netflix the Albanians. Let's not let him forget that one he made.

[Scott Galloway]

He made a one sentence stupid remark that's haunted him the rest of his life.

[Kara Swisher]

A really bad one.

[Scott Galloway]

Let me. But, okay, but that is dwarfed by guess who decided to sell magazines at their peak.

[Kara Swisher]

Heuchs.

[Scott Galloway]

Guess who decided to sell the cable part of his company at the peak. And by the way, guess who decided to sell the assets of. Of Time, of Time Warner at their peak?

[Kara Swisher]

Jeff fucking Bugas. Because this is Albanian CEOs.

[Scott Galloway]

This is where CEOs where they're. And I'm going to differentiate between men and women. I don't think Ruth Peratt. I think women are different than men. And it's okay as long as you sanctify women and call all men predators and idiots. But I think on a certain level, you would have to acknowledge if Ruth Peratt was running these companies, there's no fucking way she'd be at $34 a share. She'd be like, okay, I don't need to have the biggest dick and win this thing. I'm here for shareholders. And the thing that CEOs are really not good at. But they get all jonesed up about getting bigger and bigger and bigger. The guy who ran B of A just kept acquiring everything and destroyed a ton of shareholder value. What CEOs are not good at? Going back to my. I'm going to pat myself on the back. I remember saying to Arthur Sulzberger in the New York Times, I'm like, why the fuck aren't we selling about.com, this is shit. This is shit business. We could sell it for a billion dollars right now. But they wanted to accessorize an analog outfit with digital earrings. CEOs are terrible at selling assets at the right time.

[Kara Swisher]

So question. Why don't you give then, David Zasov the same hand job you're giving Jeff Bukes here? Just curious.

[Scott Galloway]

Oh, David. David's doing his job, but Jeff Bukus, you know, who probably made 100 or $200 million, made billions for shareholders. Zaslav has basically said, you fucked up investing in my company. You should invest in the S and P. I'm barely going to get your money back, but by the way, I'm going to off with a billion dollars.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, you're right. That's fair. He's barely getting there.

[Scott Galloway]

It must create $7 trillion in incremental shareholder value at Tesla. I've said this on the record. I'm okay with him getting a trillion dollars if bu. Mickey Drex. I remember when Mickey Drexler made a billion dollars of the Gap and there was all this is in the 90s, and there was all this, like, hullabaloo, and I'm like, he's added 14 billion in shareholder value.

[Kara Swisher]

I agree.

[Scott Galloway]

The problem with Zaslav or Marissa, or Marissa Mayer or Adam Newman is they walk off with hundreds of millions or billions for destroying shareholder value.

[Kara Swisher]

10 exit. Yeah, you're right. Okay, we'll see where this goes. But I'll tell you, Karen Swisher goes out the door.

[Scott Galloway]

Somehow I don't think that's entered the discussion.

[Kara Swisher]

You know what? I'm going to. I'm just going to loudly insult them the whole time until they fire me.

[Scott Galloway]

But I don't think they're going to fire you. I think they're going to.

[Kara Swisher]

I know I'm actually the person they want to keep, which is the worst part, but I'm not going to. Okay, Scott, let's go on a quick break. When we come back, the Trump administration's plan to use social media to gatekeeper foreign visitors.

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[Scott Galloway]

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[Kara Swisher]

Scott we're back with more news. This one. I just can't believe this. The Trump administration wants to review foreign visitors social media history. This is ahead of the World cup coming here. The plan would apply to citizens of 42 countries that are allowed visa free travel to the U.S. the list of countries includes the United Kingdom, Australia, France and Germany. The proposed is not yet final and U.S. customs and Border Protection says it will accept 60 days of comments. I mean, are you fucking kidding me? In the free speech nation. And as you said, the numbers on visitors have declined so precipitously and has sort of hollowed out. I can't believe they're even considering looking at people's social media. Like, what do you fucking care if you think Marco Rubio is dickless? Which I do. And I will say on social media, this is insane from a business point of view, correct?

[Scott Galloway]

Like this obsession with manufacturing where 80% of Americans think we need more manufacturing but only 20% of Americans have any interest in being in manufacturing. You can't take your dog to the factory floor. People don't want the. For the most part, people don't want to be in manufacturing. And we do need a certain level of a manufacturing base, but it needs to be advanced manufacturing, high margin. But the obsession is coming at the cost of an even better higher margin industry and that is the tourism business.

[Kara Swisher]

It's insane.

[Scott Galloway]

And so, and just so people can fill up our comments with calling me a fascist or a weirdo or whatever.

[Kara Swisher]

Well, that's every Tuesday, but go ahead.

[Scott Galloway]

There you go. I do believe if you are applying to come here and be a citizen or get a visa or a green card, I think everything is open game because. And young people, let's be clear. When you get a job at Goldman Sachs before you get the offer or you apply for a job, you know what they do? They look at your social media and if they think you're an idiot, that is going to embarrass them and you're saying misogynistic things or you're out just rubbing your wealth in people's face or doing shots or acting like A total asshole. Guess what? They will not give you a job. They also run credit checks on you. So there's a difference between. On cuttle tourism, where we benefit. Vegas is dying. And amongst. There are two reasons Vegas is dying or a lot of reasons. But one of them is we've now moved. We've put Vegas in everyone's pocket.

[Kara Swisher]

But also online betting.

[Scott Galloway]

Canadians were a huge source of revenue for Vegas. They're out. They're like, fuck you. You're gonna treat us like assholes and take 70% of our exports which go to you and start playing being reckless with our economic well being. Yeah, we're done. So this is yet another reason.

[Kara Swisher]

But who would even think of this? This is like where's by the way.

[Scott Galloway]

The First Amendment, which is what we're.

[Kara Swisher]

Becoming, literally the first fucking Amendment. It says you can say whatever you think. Like, you know. He also tweeted that if you. He's apparently incandescent over the New York Times, they should be able to say anything they want about the United States of America on social media, period. Period. Full circle.

[Scott Galloway]

Okay, but do we have an obligation to let them in?

[Kara Swisher]

Yes. Yes, we do. It's just words. That's just words. They're not like I'm asking this to.

[Scott Galloway]

Learn, not to make a comment. Does the First Amendment apply to people coming in? Temporarily.

[Kara Swisher]

I don't care. It applies to our whole ethos. Like if you want to keep people.

[Scott Galloway]

Out because I'm coming to New York and then I'm going to commit a terrorist attack.

[Kara Swisher]

I'm not talking about committing a terrorist attack. Saying Donald Trump is an orange Nazi is fine.

[Scott Galloway]

Hold on, hold on, hold on. Hi, I'm coming into the US Why are you here? Well, it says on social media that you are about to activate a terrorist cell and commit acts of terror while you are here on US soil. You think that's first Amendment free speech?

[Kara Swisher]

No, because that's not what it's about. It's. They're going to review their foreign visitors. So the only reason I'm pairing this together is because he was incandescent over a New York Times piece. He is. According to White House people that I talk to. He's like lost his mind. Where the New York Times basically said he's old and probably essentially has frontal lobe dement, which I think we all can all after the performance of the last two days.

[Scott Galloway]

You're going a bit off script here.

[Kara Swisher]

But this is what he said. Anyone who says I'm sick is a traitor and could be tried for Sedition, essentially, is what he said.

[Scott Galloway]

Agreed.

[Kara Swisher]

Words, Words don't count. And I just.

[Scott Galloway]

Look, if that's different, Kara.

[Kara Swisher]

No, no. If they come in and they have threatened this on social media, then we stop them. We look through their bags, we say we're gonna follow them. We still let them in. I'm sorry, it's just words. It's like, what if it's a teenager doing it? What if it's some angry grandma German grandma?

[Scott Galloway]

We can make those judgment calls, but I don't think. I don't think everyone. I don't. I don't think everyone, anyone. I don't think Americans have a birthright to live in New York. If it's too expensive, you leave. I don't think people have a birthright to just throw up their arm, unfortunately, and say asylum and gain entry into the US And I don't think it's people's birthright. Let me continue to come in for whatever reason, if they have a history and statements that appear to be a threat and are gonna cost us more energy and money to track these people. Cause we perceive they're a real threat. Having said that, I think the bar has to be pretty fucking low to gain entry to come in and spend money. And if you've said some anti American things on your social media, okay, we should be able to assess how serious a threat it is. And the bar needs to be, I don't know, really high or really low. But if you've said some anti American things, that's probably 70% of anyone who has a social media account. And the economic benefit and the brand America. When people come to America, guess what? They have a really good time and they like us. And they find out on the whole, people who are Republicans and Democrats are pretty decent people. And then they go back and say, hey, maybe someday let's go back to Disney, or if our kid wants to go to college in the U.S. or if a U.S. company comes here, maybe I'll do business with them. We have a vested economic and strategic and military interest. Vested interest in letting people come and see how wonderful America is.

[Kara Swisher]

Yes. But I think what you were doing was a very edgy case of a thing. They already were aware of those fees. Someone who calls Morin Shitler, come on in, like, who cares? Like who the fuck cares? And they don't need to investigate that person if they don't have a history or record of crime, which they already know before, by the way. They know the bad people that come in. For the most part, it's not a secret. It's not some grandma from Germany, like, give me a break. I mean, it's only one step to what he was saying very explicitly. If you say I'm old and sick, you're a traitor. You're a traitor.

[Scott Galloway]

Guess what?

[Kara Swisher]

You're old and you're sick. And I think you have pre, you know, frontal lobe dementia. Come and get me. I don't know what else to say. Anyway, speaking of which, President Trump kicked off a series of really unusual speeches for him, even because he seemed rather low energy and meandering, intended to ease the cost of living concerns by mocking affordability. Let's listen to a clip of the speech in Pennsylvania this week.

[Scott Galloway]

But they have a new word. You know, they always have a hoax. The new word is affordability.

[Kara Swisher]

So they look at the camera and.

[Scott Galloway]

They say, this election is all about affordability now. They never talk about it.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, they're talking about it now, sir. He got distracted by some of the crowd telling him to run for four more years during the speech. Also suggested Americans should buy less pencils and dolls from overseas. That's an old trope he was doing. He was quite. I mean, I don't think he has Alzheimer's. I think he has this frontal look because you get more aggressive and more fanciful with that one. Alzheimer's is a forgetting disease, really. But this idea of you can get your dolls elsewhere, buy less pencils. Nobody cares about affordability. They must be beside themselves in the White House that he's doing this.

[Scott Galloway]

He ran on affordability. And 57% of voters.

[Kara Swisher]

So the ability.

[Scott Galloway]

Sorry, 57% of voters agree that Trump was losing the battle against inflation. 68% believe that the economy is poor, very poor. And according to a recent political poll, get this, 27% percent of respondents have skipped a medical checkup because of the costs. Because of costs accelerating in the last two years, a quarter have skipped a prescription. A third said they could not afford to attend a professional sports event with their family or friends. And almost half said they can't pay for a vacation that involves air travel. I mean, this is the problem. Neither Democrats or Republicans want to have a serious fucking conversation around affordability. Republicans want a tariff. Democrats want to throw money at people to say, we'll short term solve your problem. The structural answers to inflation and affordability are really boring. And the American public doesn't seem to want to elect people who are willing to have these conversations. The things that drive inflation, you start with the shit that drives the CPI. 40%, unfortunately, of middle income homes now is going towards housing. And you've said this, we need a massive increase in housing. The next biggest cost in terms of acceleration. The 2 and 3 are education and healthcare. We need national medicine or socialized medicine. And we need tuition caps based on income of the household but no one wants to talk about. And we to need massive antitrust.

[Kara Swisher]

Well, it's also, it's also food though, Scott. I mean I was noticing and I have plenty of money to buy food. But I was in a store the other day and the chicken sandwich was $8 and Amanda saw one too. Eight, nine dollars, like for just a basic chicken. And I was like, that's like less more than minimum wage. Like everything, like even the most basic stuff is more than minimum wage. And I don't know, I don't pay attention to prices as much as I should. Sometimes I do, sometimes I don't. But boy, do you notice them now.

[Scott Galloway]

Because you're like, okay, but the question is you're saying what everyone will agree with and that is the rent is too damn high. Remember that mayoral candidate. We all agree. The question is what do we do about it? And the answer is, in my view, if you're talking about a chicken sandwich, There are three companies controlling the majority of the poultry market. There are too few grocers and too much regulation and too in too much red tape that increases the cost of grocery prices. You need more competition. There are literally seven food companies responsible for the vast majority of our food products right now. We need dramatically more.

[Kara Swisher]

But from a marketing point of view, him making fun of it, I don't even understand what the theory is here except that he has frontal lobe dementia. I don't know what else he could do.

[Scott Galloway]

I don't think it's fair to say he has dementia or Alzheimer's. What I think it's fair to say is he suffers from an ailment that is very obvious and is true. He suffers from 79. And we just should not have a person with their finger on the button trying to figure out tariff policy, trying to figure out our relationship with the CCP and what ships should go and the threat they present long term.

[Kara Swisher]

What do you think of him doing this? Trying to make it not a thing. It's ineffective. Was pilloried for much less.

[Scott Galloway]

Totally ineffective. And I'm glad he's doing it because I think it plays into our hands. But at some point, the counter to that can't be just what a fucking idiot is. Okay, agree.

[Kara Swisher]

Right, got it.

[Scott Galloway]

It's all Right. Affordability requires an adult conversation and long term structural solutions. Are we ready for an adult conversation around housing, medical care, tuition costs, and antitrust?

[Kara Swisher]

Although I don't think mocking's about where.

[Scott Galloway]

Are the Democrats having this conversation? Outside of Senator Klobuchar, who's actually having this conversation? The Democrats who I have on raging moderates all say the same thing. This is an important conversation that we need to have at the right moment. But right now, let's make sure we get the ACA subsidies. All right, I get it.

[Kara Swisher]

Well, that's a cost. Like, you're like, you don't buy insurance, but mine is going to go up quite a bit. And it was like, what could it go up to?

[Scott Galloway]

And, oh, I agree, it's insane. It was.40% of American households have medical or dental debt. But, okay, so we have a series of band aid ideas, but no one wants to talk about a structural reform in healthcare because the healthcare industrial complex is the biggest donor to PACs. I just gave a bunch of money to a young woman who just announced her campaign for Senate and her. Well, pretty easy to figure out.

[Kara Swisher]

Jasmine Crockett. Okay. Yeah. I saw you online. You were like, call me Jasmine.

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah, I am literally, like, watching my parents argue. I love Talarico and I love Jasmine Crockett.

[Kara Swisher]

Anyways, should we invite both of them to south by Southwest and be on stage with us?

[Scott Galloway]

Oh, I would love that.

[Kara Swisher]

Let's try that.

[Scott Galloway]

Jasmine, I think they're.

[Kara Swisher]

James, we'd like to have you both on stage.

[Scott Galloway]

I think they're both outstanding. It breaks my life they're running against each other. Anyways, but I heard from someone on our staff saying, we'll try and find time for you to meet with the representative. I'm like, no. People with my demographic have way too much fucking influence already. I am sending this money with one directive. Keeping on, girl. Yeah, just keep doing what you're doing.

[Kara Swisher]

I would like to see her slap you back to last Sunday as my own entertainment.

[Scott Galloway]

That's what you're here for.

[Kara Swisher]

At 73, she would totally take. Her announcement video was great. I like him, too.

[Scott Galloway]

I loved her announcement video.

[Kara Swisher]

People are scared people. I thought it was fighting each other. I don't. I think that's fine. Everyone's like, oh, we've blown. I'm like, no, we haven't.

[Scott Galloway]

More hot young people like Talarico, who, by the way, follows Instagram models, which I love. Which I love. I love a guy who talks about Jesus and then is following Emily radio.

[Kara Swisher]

You know, Emily Ratajkowski did ask about him. Anyway, let's go on a quick break.

[Scott Galloway]

You know, I expose myself and you jab play with my emotions. I got so much dopa when you said, you know Emily Ratajkowski. And I was waiting for the end.

[Kara Swisher]

To say that she DM'd you. So when we come back, we'll talk about Australia's new social media ban for teens.

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[Scott Galloway]

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[Kara Swisher]

Oh, it's possible, Harvey. I mean, you can Switch to T mobile in just 15 minutes. So you think you can find your auntie a sweater?

[Scott Galloway]

Come on, you spent an hour buying jelly beans.

[Kara Swisher]

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[Scott Galloway]

Maybe I should switch to T Mobile right now, this holiday.

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[Kara Swisher]

Scott, we're back. It might be time for us to move down under. Australia's become the first country in the world to ban kids under 16 from using social media. Instagram, TikTok, Snapchat, Reddit and several other platforms face fines of up to $33 million if they don't take reasonable steps to remove underage users. Of course Aussie teens are already finding workarounds. Of course they are creating accounts with fake ages, using less popular apps and even taking the government to court. Fine, well and good. That's what teens are there for. And here in the US a Florida law banning social media accounts for kids under 14 is going into effect after surviving a court challenge. I gotta say I agree with that idiot. Remember him down in Florida, Desantis on this. This works. Will the rest of the world follow? Now just for. Let me just say we give Facebook and meta a hard time and by the way, they are not keeping young people safe no matter what they say. Tim Cook was on Capitol Hill this week lobbying against legislation that requires platforms to authenticate users age, pushing instead to put the burden on parents. You know, both meta and they are arguing of who's responsible. I think they're both responsible whether the phones are or the social media sites. But putting it on parents when they make these products is just not. Is just. I find really shameful for Tim Cook to do. But I know why he's doing it. I just find it shameful.

[Scott Galloway]

We just gave back in one move or I should say the Australian government and their leadership just gave back. This was the most generous accretive gift to kids likely in Australian history. Their time with their friends, their self esteem, their time outside, their time playing sports, their time with their parents, their ability to navigate relationship in person, their ability to focus on their schoolwork, their test scores. The Australian government just gave back more childhood to children than any single legislation I think passed in the west in the last decade and, and I just want to call out, I think the most influential scholar in the world right now is my colleague Jonathan Haidt. I just don't think this would have happened without his book, the Anxious Generation. It might have happened, but it wouldn't have happened as soon. And I hope that it ignites an absolute firestorm. And they say, well, it's about parenting. Oh, fuck you, Tim Cook. Do you think it's parenting that bars should be able to serve my kid alcohol and that it's up to me to make sure that he never gets access to it?

[Kara Swisher]

And it is some of your responsibilities, by the way. Tim Cook doesn't have children, so they don't have the difficulty of.

[Scott Galloway]

Okay, and here's the problem. Parenting. Okay, you don't have children when you say that.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, you don't.

[Scott Galloway]

Unless it's a collective action. Unless every 15 year old is off snap, you move in with parenting and you manage to figure out a way to use Custodio or Custodio and get them off snap. And guess what? They're more depressed as my other colleague Adam Alto did research around this, because they're ostracized, because they're the only ones not on snap. So unless this is collective action through legislation, and this is my favorite argument from Meta, that they're violating their first amendment rights. You know what a 14 year old doesn't need to know. We don't need to know what a 14 year old thinks about MRNA vaccines. I'm sorry, this is such an insane argument that it's that they're worried about the free speech and they say this is nothing but the following. This is Joe Camel. It was shown that the tobacco industry had a series of cartoon like characters to try and incorporate new people into their addiction, which would continue to kill our sisters and our brothers and our mothers. And they said, sorry, you don't get to feed the pipeline with cartoon like characters, nor should social media at a minimum be allowed to spread this depression, this disassociation and the sequestration from life and family. My fear, I would love to think this ignites similar bands around the world. I'm hopeful it does. But the problem is in America we are fallen to this delusion that we are a democracy. We're not. We have a passive majority that is weaponized and influenced by a very activated, sophisticated, well funded special interest groups. And the special interest group around tech.

[Kara Swisher]

Sing it sister.

[Scott Galloway]

Well, the special interest group around tech is only second to the health industrial complex in terms of money and maybe number one right now because the entire economy and the Trump administration is making a big bet on AI. So these people have so much fucking. We have minority the areas that are.

[Kara Swisher]

The worst for Americans. Healthcare and social media among the worst biggest lobbyists. It's in there. Let me just say I agree parents should get off their phones when they're in front of their kids. They should be more present for kids. Absolutely. They should be more interested in what they're doing online. But it is incredible. It's too hard to use and it's not your fault. Parents, this is made. I have a hard time monitoring. I had a hard time monitoring these things, but I did it. But it was very difficult and the tools suck. So this is their responsibility to make it so. Put warning labels on these things, explain this to kids. And again, I agree parents should not be on their phone. Like you have to sort of pattern map for kids on stuff like that. Ignoring them and looking at your phones is one of those things. And so there is a parental obligation here. But for the most part this is on them, all of them. And it's really repulsive that all these companies have constantly abrogated the responsibilities of their shoddy products no matter how you do it and they are able to do it. And I know they put in all this what if finding people privacy, I don't care, figure it out. You're smart people, so. And you're making a ton of money so I'm sure you could spend some of your money.

[Scott Galloway]

Well, just let's talk about some Data. In the U.S. so Instagram earned $4 billion this year from teens age 13 to 17. They make platforms are going to earn about $13 billion from kids under 18 in 2022, which translates to about, I don't know, somewhere between a hundred billion and a quarter of a trillion dollars. So what do you know? They're worried about their First Amendment rights. 53% of children now own a smartphone by age 11. That has doubled since 2015. Three quarters of children aged 2 to 5 engage with YouTube regularly. And teens spend five hours a day on social media. Where do you think that five hours has come from? About 35% of their waking hours outside of school and age gating. Guess what folks? We age gate bars and restaurants serving alcohol, convenience stores, gas stations, smoke shops, tobacco, cannabis dispensaries, can't drive till you're 16. Casinos, sports books, the DMV, online gambling sites, pornography, firearm retailers. Can Australia run the U.S. yes, I would like to have firearms. They have a super return fund for, for. Yeah, they're very tough to invest.

[Kara Swisher]

They go out, by the way.

[Scott Galloway]

I'm going there. I say I'm going there. I'm going there for the holidays.

[Kara Swisher]

Oh, nice. You'll love it.

[Scott Galloway]

Sydney Cairns, Lizard Island.

[Kara Swisher]

Great berries this year.

[Scott Galloway]

Super excited.

[Kara Swisher]

I'm going for my nephews. My nephew lives. I'm going for his wedding next year. All right. We love this.

[Scott Galloway]

You always have to one up me. You always have. I'm just going to Sydney for a great New Year's party.

[Kara Swisher]

You're going to have a great time. It's a wonderful place. They've got myriad of problems, but other problems. But I gotta say, this was a winner for these people. All right, Scott, one more quick break. We'll be right back.

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[Kara Swisher]

Okay, Scott, we're going to do something a little different today. Time just announced its Person of the Year which everyone thought it would be. The architects of AI for 2025. The COVID shows Mark Zuckerberg Elon Musk, Sam Altman, Jensen, Huang Fei Fei Li and a few others. Let me ask you, who would you have picked as the time person thing, slash thing of the year?

[Scott Galloway]

Who I would have picked. Who's my person of the year? And I actually wrote this up was Mackenzie Scott.

[Kara Swisher]

Excellent choice. There you go. $7 billion she's given away this year.

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Kara Swisher]

Amazing.

[Scott Galloway]

There's definitely a different approach to what I'll call feminine giving versus masculine giving. The. I think the woman who won the Nobel Peace Prize is going to play a seminal role. I think Maduro is going to be. I think we're going to have regime change in Venezuela.

[Kara Swisher]

Let them do it themselves. That's my feeling 100%. I would pick. I'm going to go pop culture. Actually. I would pick K Pop Demon Hunters, because. No, I would. I would. Here's why. Because I think, you know, I know you didn't. You don't pay attention to cultural things as much as I do, but I.

[Scott Galloway]

Don'T like culture, Cara.

[Kara Swisher]

I love it.

[Scott Galloway]

And so occasionally I buy branded edibles. That's about it.

[Kara Swisher]

What happened at the Macy's parade, which everybody loved and made everybody feel good, was a moment. And in the center of that was a moment of, let's all like, stop this hatefulness. Let's be interesting. Let's have all different. There was country people. There was all kinds of people there. Like, it wasn't. Like it wasn't woke. It was just America. I felt really good about it. Right. I think they represent a lot of things that I think we have to get back to, which is the idea that the difference is, okay, you shouldn't hide yourself. The good feeling about this country and this world, like, feeling good about that we are, we can be. And I'm not a religious person, that we can be saved. There's a grace. There's amazing grace, and that's what that. The music there. And it's played on any parent on their Spotify playlist or whatever the year, whatever music. It's K Pop Demon Hunters, which is amazing because kids are really responding to it. And so it's not just the song Golden. It's not just, you know, take down and everything else. It's a complex look at how difficult it is to deal with differences. And I just. I find it to be one of the most moving cultural moments this year is. And, you know, I want to pick Taylor Swift and Fate of Ophelia, which I loved. But I think it's a really. You can see people as they listen to it. And I know it sounds dumb, but do you remember Bill and Ted's excellent adventure? When they become the band that brings their whole thing is in the future they become this band, what was it called? Horse or whatever, which was funny, but that's what I felt like with this movie. It's like this unites people in a way I find very lovely. And so I would pick K pop team.

[Scott Galloway]

Did you know my biggest in Yeo? I want to bring this back to me. I know I don't like to talk about, you know, I don't like to talk about my self care, but there was something called Yeo. And I joined when I was like 30 years old in San Francisco, which is supposed to be a feeder into ypo. And you get a mentor. The best part of it is you get a mentor who's a ypoer. And my mentor was the runner up for or one of the runner ups for person of the year a times person of the year. And it was Bob Swanson. Do you remember him?

[Kara Swisher]

No, no.

[Scott Galloway]

He was the founder of Genentech.

[Kara Swisher]

Oh, okay. All right.

[Scott Galloway]

And he met me, Craig, whatever you call it, we met and the loveliest guy. I mean this is a guy very busy, right? And he said, we met, we had lunch and he said, and I said I had just started Profit, this brand, this strategy firm. And he said, would you. He goes, how can I be the most helpful? I'm like, you know, I sort of know what I'm doing, but I really don't. He said, well, I have an idea. I'll just shadow you for a day. Yeah. He met me in my office, actually met me at the gym. I worked out every day from 7 to 8. He met me at the gym, picked me up, took me to my office and he just shadowed me for a full day. Meetings, client meetings. And he's a fairly kind of quiet. He was sort of shorter guy carried a few extra pounds, Just sort of, kind of, I don't want to say blended in, obviously a genius. And he just shouted me the whole day. And at the end of the day, he sat me down and he'd taken a bunch of notes and he said, okay, great leaders listen more than they talk. You are not a great leader yet. You want to impress everybody. You're talking too much.

[Kara Swisher]

Of course, that's pretty amazing.

[Scott Galloway]

He had all these things that have stuck with me my whole life. He said, you don't understand the difference between being right and being effective. He's like, you're right. A lot. But you're too aggressive and you're turning off people. You got to think about how am I effective here? And he just gave me a series of things.

[Kara Swisher]

Wow.

[Scott Galloway]

Anyways, that was my mentor story.

[Kara Swisher]

Oh, my God. That's a wonderful story.

[Scott Galloway]

Oh, you know who I would pick?

[Kara Swisher]

Who?

[Scott Galloway]

Just to stick my finger in Putin's eyes. I'd pick Navalny.

[Kara Swisher]

That's a great idea. Yeah. There's all kinds of people. This is sort of an antiquated thing, the person of the year, but it's still kind of works because it makes you think about things. So anyway, we do not think the architects of AI deserve it. I don't. At least I think there's a much more uplifting story about to happen over the next year.

[Scott Galloway]

Such a snooze.

[Kara Swisher]

I'm telling you, it is. I know architects.

[Scott Galloway]

You know what, though? Realistically, who it should be, what it should probably be. Jensen Huang. No, I hate it when they have multiple people or they don't pick a person.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, he's just able to wear his coat and act like a lesbian and kiss up to Trump.

[Scott Galloway]

No, he's built a pretty important coat.

[Kara Swisher]

I understand, but. But I'm not like. Time will tell, as they say. Anyway, you've got to get going because you arrived late and you've got to leave early. We want to hear from you. Send us your questions about business, tech, or whatever's on your mind. Go to nymag.com pivot submit a question for the show or call 855-51PRIVOT. Elsewhere in the Karen Scott universe this week, and Scott spoke with Tristan Harris, former Google design ethicist and co founder of the center for Humane Technology. I know him well. He's fantastic. Let's listen to a clip.

[Guest or Expert Speaker]

The US Beat China to the technology of social media. Did that make us stronger or did that make us weaker? If you beat an adversary to a technology, but that you then don't govern in a wise way and you instead, like, you built this gun, you flip it around, you blow your own brain off, which is what we did with social media. We have the worst critical thinking test scores, you know, mental health, anxious, depressed generation in history. And it's a confusing picture because GDP is going up, but sort of cancer is going up, too. So it's like we have the Magnificent Seven. We're profiting from all the wealth of these companies, but it's actually not being distributed to everybody except those who are invested in the stock market. And that profit is based on the degradation of our Social fabric.

[Kara Swisher]

I love that guy. He's been going at this for a long time.

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah, he's been doing it. He's kind of the original gangster of all Things are not right in Mudville.

[Kara Swisher]

You are absolutely right. And they. They can't stand it. But he's been right then and he's right now. And that was great. That's a terrific thing.

[Scott Galloway]

The nicest part of the interview is I asked him who's been most influential in his life, and he said that his mother and that she was nothing but pure love, which I really like.

[Kara Swisher]

Oh, lovely. You would.

[Scott Galloway]

He's a nice man.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah. That would appeal to you, I'm sure. And before we go, I'm interviewing Dara Khosrowshahi, the CEO of Uber, and Chris Urmson, the CEO of Aurora, live on stage at the Hopkins Bloomberg center in Washington, D.C. on Monday, December 15th. Next Monday, these are gonna be two really sharp conversations about applied AI and autonomous vehicles. I'm very excited. They're both. Chris was the original Google car of autonomous car projects at Google. I think he's great too. And both of them. I've known Dara for a long time. Really smart thinkers. To register for free tickets. Google, Hopkins and Kara Swisher. Okay, that's the show. Thanks for listening to Pivot and be sure to like and subscribe to our YouTube channel. We'll be back next week. Scott, read us out.

[Scott Galloway]

Today's show was produced by Lara Neyman, Zoe Marcus and Taylor Griffin. Ernie Intertodd engineered this episode. Rich Shibley edited the video. Thanks to also to Drew Bros, Ms. Silvera and Dan Shalon the Shock Kuro, Vox Media's executive producer podcast. Make sure to follow Pivot on your favorite podcast platform. Thanks for listening to Pivot from New York magazine and Vox Media. You can subscribe to the magazine nymag.com pod we'll be back next week for another breakdown of all things television and business. This is comedy gold. We gotta record this.

[Kara Swisher]

We are recording this. Let me just say you're late to the podcast. No. Happy birthday.

[Scott Galloway]

I'm late. Well, it's because you didn't use a condom. You always think it's a good idea to start with a condom. And then you get me all hot and bothered and say, just let me put the tip in you.

[Kara Swisher]

73 year old, no present. Several moguls sent me presents. Not you like it?

[Scott Galloway]

I like unexpected gifts.

[Kara Swisher]

Louis sent me birthday song. Birthday by two chains. Here, I'll just play it myself. All I want for my birthday is.

[Scott Galloway]

A big booty house.

[Kara Swisher]

All I want for my birthday is.

[Scott Galloway]

A big booty house.

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