Elon Steps Back from DOGE, Wall Street Whiplash, and Meta’s Antitrust Trial Continues

Summary

Pivot Podcast Summary: April 25, 2025 Edition
Title: Elon Steps Back from DOGE, Wall Street Whiplash, and Meta’s Antitrust Trial Continues
Hosts: Kara Swisher and Scott Galloway
Release Date: April 25, 2025
Network: New York Magazine and Vox Media Podcast Network

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1. Celebrating the Webby Awards

The episode kicks off with Kara Swisher and Scott Galloway celebrating their podcast's recent accolades. They proudly announce that Pivot has won both the Webby Award and the People's Choice Award for Best Business Podcast.

Notable Quote:
Scott Galloway [01:54]: “We won the Webby Award and the People's Choice Award. Both of them.”

The hosts share humorous banter about their awards and the nature of such recognitions, reflecting on the often arbitrary aspects of award systems.

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2. Meta’s Antitrust Trial and Instagram Acquisition

A significant portion of the episode delves into the ongoing antitrust trial against Meta Platforms Inc. The discussion centers around Instagram co-founder Kevin Systrom's testimony, where he alleges that Meta underfunded Instagram post-acquisition to suppress competition against Facebook.

Notable Quotes:
Kara Swisher [09:35]: “Kevin Systrom testified that Zuckerberg was not investing in the Instagram app because he saw it as a threat to Facebook.”
Kevin Systrom [09:35]: “We were struggling to keep the set up $500 million evaluation… Mark came along and... you get all the expertise of Facebook… That sounded like a really good deal.”

Kara shares her own interview from South by Southwest (SXSW) where Systrom expressed frustrations about integrating Instagram into Meta, likening the experience to having a problematic roommate. The hosts debate the validity of Systrom's claims, considering Instagram's substantial revenue growth under Meta's umbrella.

Insight:
Kara emphasizes that despite Systrom's testimony, Instagram has evolved into a critical revenue driver for Meta, suggesting that Zuckerberg may have recognized Instagram's potential value over time.

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3. EU Antitrust Fines on Apple and Meta

The episode explores recent fines imposed by the European Union under the Digital Markets Act. Meta faces a €230 million fine, while Apple is hit with a €570 million penalty for antitrust violations.

Notable Quotes:
Scott Galloway [19:17]: “Meta and Apple are the first companies to be fined for violations of the EU's Digital Markets Act.”
Kara Swisher [20:57]: “Half of what Apple and Meta make in one day. So the question is, is it going to happen every month unless they change their behavior?”

Scott predicts that these fines are likely just the beginning and that European regulators will continue to enforce antitrust measures rigorously, potentially leading to more significant repercussions for big tech companies.

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4. Sarah Palin's Defamation Lawsuit Against The New York Times

Kara and Scott discuss the outcome of Sarah Palin's retrial against The New York Times regarding a defamation lawsuit. Palin sued after the Times mistakenly linked her to a political incitement related to the 2011 Gabby Giffords shooting.

Notable Quotes:
Scott Galloway [22:16]: “Charles forme have to starve one of the kids from,”
Kara Swisher [24:03]: “She caught this moment of charisma and fire… Governor Palin has just revealed herself to not be a serious person.”

Kara argues that the lawsuit highlights the challenges public figures face in defamation cases, especially under the "actual malice" standard established by the landmark 1964 case New York Times Co. v. Sullivan. The hosts agree that Palin's reputation has waned over the years, making her case less likely to succeed in future appeals.

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5. Tony Hsieh’s Will and Legacy

The hosts reflect on the late Tony Hsieh, co-founder of Zappos, whose recently discovered will detailed his plans for his $1.2 billion fortune. Hsieh aimed to leave substantial sums to his alma mater, Harvard, and other undisclosed beneficiaries, emphasizing surprise and privacy.

Notable Quotes:
Scott Galloway [26:07]: “He was a hugger… he had this happiness tour… but he was so sad.”
Kara Swisher [27:01]: “He struck me as someone who really struggled with loneliness.”

Kara shares personal memories of Hsieh, portraying him as a complex individual who, despite his business success, grappled with personal struggles and loneliness.

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6. Elon Musk Steps Back from DOGE and Tesla's Earnings

A major focus of the episode is Elon Musk's announcement that he is stepping back from Dogecoin (DOGE) management to focus more on Tesla, especially after a disappointing earnings report.

Notable Quotes:
Kara Swisher [35:16]: “Doge and Elon Musk are going to fade away... Tesla sales continue to plummet.”
Scott Galloway [37:22]: “Tesla's operating margins have dropped to 2.1%. This is an unprofitable government-subsidized.”

Kara expresses skepticism about Musk's ability to reverse Tesla's declining sales and financial performance without relying on government subsidies. Scott adds that Tesla's recent performance metrics are alarming, with operating margins significantly decreased, indicating deeper financial troubles.

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7. Trump’s Impact on Wall Street

The discussion shifts to former President Donald Trump's controversial remarks about Federal Reserve Chair Jerome Powell, which caused significant market volatility. Trump's criticism led to declines in stock and bond markets, showcasing his persistent influence on financial sectors.

Notable Quotes:
Scott Galloway [56:32]: “President Trump's attacks on the Fed chair Jerome Powell… triggered a major off of stocks and bonds.”
Kara Swisher [58:26]: “The only two things you have to remember in a negotiation are not to make it emotional and always show a credible willingness to walk away. This guy gets an F on each of those.”

Kara criticizes Trump's negotiation tactics, highlighting how his emotional and antagonistic approach undermines effective economic strategies and damages America's international standing.

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8. Predictions and Conclusions

In the finale, Kara and Scott offer their predictions on various tech and business fronts:

• Alphabet (Google):
  Kara [69:54]: "Rumors of Alphabet's struggles have been greatly exaggerated. YouTube remains a juggernaut."
  Scott [73:00]: Agrees with Kara, expecting Alphabet to outperform expectations.

• Big Tech Spin-offs:
  Both predict that within the next 12 to 24 months, major tech companies might undergo strategic spin-offs to navigate regulatory challenges.

• Geopolitical Shifts:
  Kara [73:20]: Anticipates that Trump's actions will influence Canadian politics, leading to the election of Mark Carney as Prime Minister due to Trump's unpopularity.

Notable Quotes:
Kara [70:53]: “I think Tesla is going to be folded into another merged or an AI company that makes robots.”
Scott [73:15]: "Tesla is definitely on a downward plunge."

The hosts conclude by reiterating the need for strategic adaptations in big tech and cautioning against overreliance on charismatic yet volatile leadership figures like Elon Musk and Donald Trump.

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Conclusion

In this episode of Pivot, Kara Swisher and Scott Galloway provide incisive analysis on pressing issues in the tech and business worlds. From Meta's antitrust challenges and Tesla's financial woes to the broader implications of political interference in financial markets, the hosts offer a blend of expert insights and candid commentary. Their predictions about the future of big tech and geopolitical shifts underscore the complex interplay between technology, business strategies, and political dynamics.

For those seeking a comprehensive understanding of the current tech landscape and its intersection with global politics, this episode delivers a wealth of information and thought-provoking perspectives.

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End of Summary

Transcript

[Kara Swisher]

Support for this podcast and the following message is brought to you by E Trade from Morgan Stanley. With E Trade, you can dive into the market with Easy use tools, $0 commissions and a wide range of investments. And now there's even more to love. You can get access to industry leading research and insights from Morgan Stanley to help guide your decisions. Open an account and get up to $1,000 or more with a qualifying deposit. Get started [e-mail] terms and other fees apply. Investing involves risks. Morgan Stanley Smith Barney llc Member SIPIC E Trade is a business of Morgan Stanley.

[Scott Galloway]

Support for this show comes from HubSpot. Growing a business can feel impossible, but HubSpot's customer platform can help. It's powered by Breeze, their suite of AI tools, so you can generate more leads, close more deals, and scale your service fast. With Breeze agents handling the busy work, customers are cutting sales cycles in half and saving hours on work each week. Best of all, you see the results in days, not months. Visit HubSpot.com AI to learn more. Support for this show comes from ServiceNow, who are enabling people to do more fulfilling work, the work they actually want to do. You know what people don't want to do? Boring, busy work. But now, with AI agents built into the ServiceNow platform, you can automate millions of repetitive tasks in every corner of the business. It, hr, customer service, and more. And that means your people can focus on the work they want to do. That's putting AI agents to work for people. It's your turn. Get [e-mail] AI agents, you're going to have no gums. And I'm going to. I'm going to laugh at your dentures someday. Hi, everyone. This is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Kara Swisher.

[Kara Swisher]

And I'm Scott Galloway.

[Scott Galloway]

How you doing, Scott? Guess what. Guess, guess what. We are Webby winners once again.

[Kara Swisher]

Oh, my God. I just want to thank the Academy.

[Scott Galloway]

Okay, the Pivot won the Webby Award and the People's Choice Award. Both of them. We like the people of us for the best business podcast.

[Kara Swisher]

And the judges, right?

[Scott Galloway]

And the judges. Yeah, the judges and the people. We've got a lot to get to today, but let's take a moment. And also, you won for Prof. G. What did you win over there?

[Kara Swisher]

Not we run for Prof. G. Markets or for raging moderates. We were an honoree. Which just means please send in your $1300 a or next year to be considered for something.

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah.

[Kara Swisher]

And then by the Way this business. We should be in the awards business.

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah.

[Kara Swisher]

This is such a racket. And then Prof. G Markets won the People's Choice Award, but not the judges award. So the cultural elite or the deep state of podcasting.

[Scott Galloway]

They just do.

[Kara Swisher]

One has decided they're smarter than the people who picked property markets. But pivot. There was just sort of no argument across anybody across the board.

[Scott Galloway]

Will this make us more obnoxious or less obnoxious? Probably more.

[Kara Swisher]

I think. I think we're pretty much hitting the limit of obnoxious. I can't imagine. Yeah, I don't see us getting.

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah, I got a lot of congratulations. And I'm like, it's the Webby. It's a Webby. We're very happy. We're gonna. We have to think of a five word acceptance speech for that, by the way.

[Kara Swisher]

Oh, yeah, yeah, that's right.

[Scott Galloway]

Scott Galloway is my husband.

[Kara Swisher]

There you go.

[Scott Galloway]

I don't like that at all. Do you have any idea. Think of one. Think of a. You're going to go get it. Maybe someone's going to go get it.

[Kara Swisher]

My team's been to the dinner. They love it. They say it's a ton of fun.

[Scott Galloway]

It is. Oh, I love it. I remember I got the lifetime achievement.

[Kara Swisher]

Jesus. Of course you're going to get lifetime achievement award.

[Scott Galloway]

It was lovely. I had a lovely time there. I had met lots of lovely celebrities that I liked.

[Kara Swisher]

I want a midlife crisis award. I want an award for best midlife crisis. Like really leaning in.

[Scott Galloway]

Let me ask you a pressing question. If you could win any award, right? You and I are not award people. We really are. But what would it be? What award would you want to have.

[Kara Swisher]

Other than the Adult Video Tripod Award, obviously. Tripod Award. That's good. I just made that up. My nickname in the fr. Ask me why, don't ask me why.

[Scott Galloway]

Okay. What would be the award? A real life award.

[Kara Swisher]

A real one. I don't know. The National Medal of Freedom, whatever it is with it. The White House, they pin it on you.

[Scott Galloway]

They put the thing.

[Kara Swisher]

Maybe it'll be at the Kennedy Center. I don't know.

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah. No, not anymore. No.

[Kara Swisher]

That'll come back, though.

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah, I know.

[Kara Swisher]

I don't really care about priests. Don't want a Nobel. I don't know.

[Scott Galloway]

Did you win any awards in your life? Have you won?

[Kara Swisher]

I was thinking about that. The last award I won from these, other than these Webbies, is in. Did you have a high school poll?

[Scott Galloway]

No, not really.

[Kara Swisher]

You know, most handsome, most successful, most likely.

[Scott Galloway]

Succeed. No, no.

[Kara Swisher]

You didn't have that in your high school.

[Scott Galloway]

No, I went to a snotty private school, but go ahead.

[Kara Swisher]

I did. I won Most Comical and Steve Martin, which dates me.

[Scott Galloway]

Oh, wait, is there a Steve Martin Award? And Most Comical?

[Kara Swisher]

Well, they did these things like, you know, Richard Pryor, so we could give the black kids. I mean, we didn't really. We thought we were being woke, and yet we were being very racist. And we had all these, you know, celebs that you were supposed to be in the 80s, like, you know, the blondie or, you know, they. This is who you are. And they picked characters.

[Scott Galloway]

Well, Steve Martin. That's perfect.

[Kara Swisher]

I want Steve Martin and I want Most Comical.

[Scott Galloway]

Oh, I see that. I see that. Most Comical. That's so funny. You weren't like, best, you know, handsomest.

[Kara Swisher]

No, not most likely to succeed. Not smartest. Not most likable. None of that.

[Scott Galloway]

None of that, no.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah.

[Scott Galloway]

No. I won the Bunn Award in my freshman year of college, which was something.

[Kara Swisher]

To do with journalism.

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah, yeah, it was. I won as a freshman if seniors got it and it upset the entire ecosystem. And the seniors hated me for winning it.

[Kara Swisher]

I think they hated you for. I'm just going to go out on another limb.

[Scott Galloway]

Fair point. I won the Loeb Award once.

[Kara Swisher]

Oh, that's big. That's journalism, right?

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah, yeah. It's all the journalism awards.

[Kara Swisher]

This was all. You're doing what I'm doing. You asked me, not really caring. You just wanted me to. No, I'm just.

[Scott Galloway]

I'm just. I didn't know. I wanted to.

[Kara Swisher]

Keep in mind, we only have 90 minutes here, so rifle through your awards.

[Scott Galloway]

No, I haven't won much. I'd like. I would like to win the MacArthur genius award.

[Kara Swisher]

Oh, that would be. That would be pretty cool.

[Scott Galloway]

That's the one I want. You can't be thirsty for it. To win it, though, you have to pretend you're very.

[Kara Swisher]

You know what award I aspire to but will never happen just through randomness, is. There's something called. I think it's called the Carnegie Award, and it's basically the Burning Car Award. And that is they give about, I think between 60 and 100 a year to people who have risked their own life on the spot to save someone else's life. So it's literally rushing into a burning house.

[Scott Galloway]

I would run into the burning house to save you.

[Kara Swisher]

I think. You would.

[Scott Galloway]

I would. I would. Burning House Runner into. That's a good award.

[Kara Swisher]

It's a really interesting. I love those sorts of philosophical questions, though, that in faced with that type of situation, and by the way, to be more thoughtful, men are more likely to run out of the field and try and save their comrades and get shot doing it. And women are more likely. And we hate to establish any sort of gender roles here, but men are more. Women are more likely to, like, let's think this through and not be idiots. Like, how do we accomplish the mission without dying and slow down and be more thoughtful. And quite frankly, that peanut butter and chocolate is really useful in all situations, including combat situations. Right.

[Scott Galloway]

Are you good in a jam? I did Outward Bound. I was pretty good in a jam a lot.

[Kara Swisher]

I'd like to think that.

[Scott Galloway]

Are you panicky?

[Kara Swisher]

I don't. We're all gonna die.

[Scott Galloway]

We're all gonna die. We should do, like, a survival thing. That would be interesting.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah. And now you'd want me along. I'm good at calming down emotionally fraught situations. When people get upset, I break up fights. A lot of bars. Not a lot. I've done that, like, three or four times.

[Scott Galloway]

I always establish dominance, and that's how I work.

[Kara Swisher]

Oh, really?

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah. And those. I was surprised. I was really kind of like, it was sort of Lord of the. I did Outward Bound and a bunch of other things like that. And I literally was like, I shall be running this now. We shall do what I say.

[Kara Swisher]

I find as I get older, I'm really happy for someone else to take charge.

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah.

[Kara Swisher]

Really help.

[Scott Galloway]

You'd be a good team member. You'd be a team.

[Kara Swisher]

Especially if she's wearing leather and I have to pay her a couple hundred euros.

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah. Anyway, we have a lot to speak.

[Kara Swisher]

I'm not a take charge person anymore.

[Scott Galloway]

She's on the Webby again. We're very excited. Thank you.

[Kara Swisher]

Webby Award and congratulations to our team.

[Scott Galloway]

Team? Yes, all the team.

[Kara Swisher]

Should we name them? Go ahead.

[Scott Galloway]

Zoe, Taylor, Lara, Everybody. And name everybody. Drew is amazing for us. We've got.

[Kara Swisher]

Who's Drew? Oh, the tech guy who's been with me 15 years. Memo to self. Remember Drew?

[Scott Galloway]

Anyway, do we thank Vox? Yeah. Vax. Sure, sure. Nishat. Yay. Yay.

[Kara Swisher]

Nishat. Drew V. Yay. The suits. The corporate. The headquarters.

[Scott Galloway]

It's not fair. They don't wear suits. They're not suit people. They're not suit people. They're actually lovely.

[Kara Swisher]

Can you imagine if we've been with them seven years? What does that say about how easygoing and nice they are?

[Scott Galloway]

They have to be. Jim Bag has to be.

[Kara Swisher]

Between the two of us, we've been with them. The chances for a blow up between you, me and any third party.

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah, yeah. Are big. Has he ever yelled at us? No, he never does.

[Kara Swisher]

No. Jim's the nicest guy. Jim's the nicest guy in media.

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah, he is.

[Kara Swisher]

He really is. He's the nicest guy in media. Anyway, enough about us.

[Scott Galloway]

Enough about us. Thank you, Webby Awards. It's well deserved by us, let's just say. Okay, all right. We've got a lot to get to today, including. There's so much going on. Elon announcing he's stepping back from Doge following Tesla's terrible earnings report. Just as we predicted, Trump sends the markets on yet another wild ride because he's so ridiculous. But first, Instagram co founder Kevin Systrom testified this week that the app was underfunded after Meta bought it, boosting the FTC's argument the company was illegally anti competitive. Systrom said Zuckerberg was not investing in the Instagram app cause he saw it as a threat to Facebook, which he felt was better. He was incorrect, but that's what he felt. I've interviewed Systrom and let me. Let's listen to this clip. Cause they used it in the trial to try to impugn Kevin Systrom.

[Kevin Systrom]

We were struggling to keep the set up $500 million evaluation. And then Mark came along and was like, hey, how about I double that and you get to keep working on what you love and you get all the expertise of Facebook, you get to work with me, Cheryl Schrep, et cetera. That sounded like a really good deal. And if you look in retrospect, I think it was a great deal. Think about all the things we've accomplished being part of Facebook, all the things we have plugged into, whether it's hiring, spam, fighting, the ad system. I mean, we have thousands of salespeople who are basically selling ads for Instagram and we snapped our fingers to access them. So a lot of really great stuff is, yes, I snap my fingers.

[Kara Swisher]

No, but I guess my point is.

[Scott Galloway]

Like, yeah, no, you had. No, I get it, I get it. It's like. Which would have happened without the other kind of thing.

[Kara Swisher]

I mean, I bet you we would.

[Kevin Systrom]

Have been successful as an independent company as well.

[Scott Galloway]

So they were using this to say that he was happy there. And now let's listen then to a clip from 2023 at south by Southwest where I interviewed Kevin.

[Kevin Systrom]

I think the worst part of the sale was just like trying to both accomplish something great with the company and, and also merge it into a company that didn't quite know how to look at you. Were you a competitor? Were we excited to own you? Like, it's like a roommate who moves in and you're like, oh, like this person's really cool, but also their stuff's everywhere.

[Scott Galloway]

Right.

[Kevin Systrom]

That's kind of what it felt like for eight years.

[Scott Galloway]

And bad roommate. Yeah.

[Kevin Systrom]

It's like, are there any good roommates? I don't know. Maybe that's the reason why people shouldn't have roommates. But it was challenging, but we did great things.

[Scott Galloway]

That's the attitude that Kevin had for a long time. He was very frustrated internally. Mark was petty with him, I think, and jealous, I think that's no question. It was an interesting. It's an interesting trial. It was interesting that they had Kevin there and not interesting. Evan Spiegel, who turned down, who I interviewed yesterday, by the way, in Washington at Snapchat, who had turned down and then Facebook proceeded to blast them by taking all their ideas. Any thoughts on this? I mean, I think people publicly try to put on a good face. Right? You've been in these situations, Scott.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, look, Kevin strikes me as a very talented entrepreneur. I don't doubt that anything he says is there's some veracity to it. But he cashed their check. What a shocker. The current CEO or the CEO was on top and wanted to maintain his platform, his of firstborn Facebook, maybe even at the expense of Instagram. But the thing that sort of countered all this is whatever he was feeling or whatever resources he was trying to starve one of the kids from, he clearly changed his mind because Instagram is now responsible for over half of ad revenue and it's growing faster. And so at some point it's a better product. At some point Dazak realized this and has absolutely turned it into a monster of business. So that may have been true then, but clearly if that was true, Mark has seen the light. And what I have found or what is interesting, I had dinner with Jonathan Haidt the other night and he actually said, I get so emotional and biased about this stuff. He said some of the controls that Meta has put in place for parents, even though they're not easy to use and you can criticize them, he said, the one that gets away with more, more than or doesn't get the scrutiny it deserves and he thinks is actually the most mendacious. Is Snap really interesting.

[Scott Galloway]

Why?

[Kara Swisher]

Well, things like their add on feature where you can. The core components of it, he kind of said are sort of tailor made, likely Unintentionally for drug dealing and for people reaching out to minors. Because that feature where you can add on people near to you immediately, it adds people near to you is perfect for a drug dealer.

[Scott Galloway]

I said, suppose I would push back. Cause I think they've always been done a lot of moderation. They've always, when they have a problem, they fix it. They don't like bellyache about it. They had a whole problem with AI streaks. Yeah. I'm just saying they fix things quickly. And they do moderate. They moderate much heavier. And what I'm saying is the attitude isn't, ugh, what are you talking about? It's like, oh, we should fix that. I would agree. I think it's a locational thing and it's more for your friends and therefore it opens it up more. But I have kids on it. I would rather rather have them on Snapchat than Facebook because I think they got inundated on Facebook.

[Kara Swisher]

Well, they're not going to be on Facebook. No young person's on Facebook or Instagram. I think Snap is actually pretty scary. And also the whole zeitgeist of it where it's disappearing messages, it was right. I mean, isn't that kind of perfect for people looking to reach? Doesn't that promote a certain level of lack of accountability?

[Scott Galloway]

But in this information, I don't think that's why they did it. I think it was because they thought privacy was critical. That's not why they did it. I was there.

[Kara Swisher]

But regardless of what they're. I don't think anyone of those people are looking to harm children. But when they have features that make it easy for adults to reach out to minors, you know, isn't that a problem?

[Scott Galloway]

It is, but I don't agree with Jonathan. I think Facebook has done less and been more resistant to dealing with things and they're the big dog.

[Kara Swisher]

I would agree with you.

[Scott Galloway]

And I think Snapchat is. I'd rather have my kids and I get the locational feature. And if kids open it up, there are things you can do to it to stop that. Right. It's much more open to fixing. And it certainly has happened, had had issues around drug dealers and things like that. Every one of these platforms has. I'm just saying platforms like, who have had problems like Reddit and Snapchat have always been willing to change in ways and admit in ways Facebook never has. And you know, I, I ultimately, I think Facebook doesn't really matter because they're the biggest and they have the most impact on everybody.

[Kara Swisher]

I think that's a fair point, especially.

[Scott Galloway]

Through Instagram, and so they should be the most responsible.

[Kara Swisher]

My kids are on Snap, though. Aren't your kids on. Or I guess their kids have aged out of it. It's really about Snap.

[Scott Galloway]

I think Louis doesn't use it as much, but he definitely. That was the only one he used. And there was one incident where I did catch him with a girl on Snap, but using the location features. I told you that, didn't I? He went out, he left the house, and I found him on Snap because he's so dumb with his technology. And I said, I know exactly where you are. I'm coming to get you.

[Kara Swisher]

Come on, be a brother. Help him.

[Scott Galloway]

Actually, help him get there. He turned a man. His brother is the one that turned him into me.

[Kara Swisher]

His brother narcked on him.

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah, well, he's like, lou's not here. And then we like, let's use the Snap feature. It's a long story, but he wrote me the most legendary text of all time, which is why I love him so much. I wrote him and I said, I can't. He took an Uber. He used my Uber to get to do some sort of hookup.

[Kara Swisher]

So a lot of breadcrumbs. It sounds like you wanted to be.

[Scott Galloway]

I was like, literally. So he wrote. I'm like, you are so grounded. I texted him, you were so grounded, I'm going to kill you. And he writes back, he goes, sometime it gonna be like that, chief. And that's what you. I'm gonna read it at his wedding. I love that line. Sometime it gonna be like that, chief.

[Kara Swisher]

Anyway, when I. When I was.

[Scott Galloway]

You're about to enter into this period of.

[Kara Swisher]

When I was a senior in high school, I asked four women to my prom, and all of them said no. And my friend Adam Markman, who I think felt empathy for me, set me up with a woman, and actually one of the most beautiful women I've ever met, this woman named Lena. I posted the picture of her on my Instagram. Anyways, Lena and I went to the Windward prom, and I was so excited. I was telling my mom I was going to a prom, and she went with me, and I rented a tuxedo, and I didn't know how to put the fucking thing on because I'd never worn a tuxedo before. I didn't know how to do cufflinks or anything. Anyways, I said. And she said, well, what are you going to do? And I'm like, well, the after party's near here. And I'm like. And I'm like. And I've got a key. I just might bring her back after all of this to here. And I did manage to get her back to my place. And, you know, there was firewood in the fireplace that my mom had put in there.

[Scott Galloway]

Oh, no, your mom's so good.

[Kara Swisher]

Wasn't that nice? She looked at me. I was six two, £140 with bad acne. And she's like, he needs all the help he can get. He needs.

[Scott Galloway]

Well, you are about to enter this period of young men that you have, so I hope. I hope you've done a good job.

[Kara Swisher]

Anyway.

[Scott Galloway]

Anyway, my kids are great.

[Kara Swisher]

You know what my mom used, what she used to say to me? She would say when I was talking about my women troubles, which was mostly an inability to get a woman in my life, she would look at me and she'd be like, wine, wine, wine, wine, wine, wine.

[Scott Galloway]

I did do. I mean, you have to do the responsible things, the sex talk, the condom talk, everything else, but just treat women well. Was the one that I really pushed on him.

[Kara Swisher]

Well, I told you about the sex talk I had with my son, right?

[Scott Galloway]

Yes, you did. We're not going to do that again.

[Kara Swisher]

When I went into his room with a banana and a condom, I know.

[Scott Galloway]

You told this truth. Go ahead.

[Kara Swisher]

He said, what's the banana for? And I said, well, I can't get hard on an empty stomach.

[Scott Galloway]

Oh, my God.

[Kara Swisher]

Boom. Never gets old.

[Scott Galloway]

You can't tell that joke. Never gets old. It gets old. It gets old.

[Kara Swisher]

Never gets old.

[Scott Galloway]

Okay, once again.

[Kara Swisher]

I'll be here all week. Try the veal.

[Scott Galloway]

All right, we're gonna. The invading Poland One is not allowed anymore. Oh, by the way, no, that's wrong's not allowed anymore.

[Kara Swisher]

I need to correct it. It's wrong.

[Scott Galloway]

What?

[Kara Swisher]

The Polish cavalry. That was an attack meant to divert German forces, and it was effective. And it's an insult to the brave men of the Polish cavalry. That attack was actually an effective diversion of German. They weren't tanks, but German armored vehicles. I've had literally eight Polish historians reach out to me and say, stop saying.

[Scott Galloway]

That for your dick joke. Yeah, stop the dick, I think, just because it's not funny. But anyway, let's keep going. It's not the only legal trouble Meta is dealing with. Meta and Apple are the first companies to be fined for violations of the EU's Digital Markets Act. Of course they were. This is going to happen. Antitrust rules. Meta about 230 million. Apple's 570 million. Both have been giving 60 days to comply. It's hardly any money. So any thoughts on that? Any thoughts on that?

[Kara Swisher]

On the antitrust?

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah, the Europeans are extracting funds. I think they're probably not going to pay and they'll just keep objecting to it for a while.

[Kara Swisher]

The question I have, I'm hoping you know more about this than I do, but is it okay, everything's fine and continue. Because that's a parking ticket in terms of their.

[Scott Galloway]

No, they have to comply with the rules. So they have to decide what to do. They can pull out of the things, they can close down services. They've done that in various countries. I think in Canada, Facebook pulled out of news. They don't put news on there and only right wing. There was a great piece about how sort of right wing blather invades social media there because Facebook has pulled news organizations out of cause if something didn't like. So they'll have to either comply with the rules or they're going to have to leave.

[Kara Swisher]

And this is, I mean, okay, so the good guys, you could argue are winning here. So the EU find both, they find them both for violating the new Digital Markets act. And it's the first time that the law has been, has been enforced. It was 570 million for Apple and 230 million for Meta.

[Scott Galloway]

I just said that.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, but we'll say it again.

[Scott Galloway]

All right. Okay.

[Kara Swisher]

Okay. So anyways, I'm saying it again.

[Scott Galloway]

I know you have research in front of you, but go ahead, keep going.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah. And then so what is that? Half of what Apple and Meta make in one day. So the question is, the question for me is is it going to happen every month unless they change their behavior or is this like that old fine where they effectively are like, okay, you were bad, now continue to be bad and you got caught this time and we're fining you. But it's not going to really change future behavior.

[Scott Galloway]

I shall find out. I do not know that any Europeans can write, but I don't know. I think they're going to do other things to not comply because compliance is problematic across the globe. From what I understand, they'll figure out some workaround of some sort, but I will find out and I will let you know next week. Is there any predictions for that Medicase from your perspective? Most people think it's pretty weak, but Systrom's testimony was definitely strong, I think.

[Kara Swisher]

Well, I do believe one of these companies, I don't know which one is going to prophylactically spend some time. I think that they're so smart that when they feel the wolves circling, they're going to get out ahead of it and go to them and say, all right, what's our blood offering here? What if we sold Chrome to OpenAI or what if we spun Instagram? I don't know. Or WhatsApp? I think one of them, I think we're going to see our first spin in the next 12 months.

[Scott Galloway]

All right, that's a good prediction. I don't think it's going to be Facebook. He's very stubborn. But I suspect Google, which has a much tougher case, this case they feel very confident over meta about this particular case. Just so you know, they're very competent, although they sort of communicate on social media like they're desperate, which is interesting. So next one former Alaska governor Sarah Palin has lost the retrial of a 2017 defamation lawsuit against the New York Times. Palin filed a lawsuit after the Times ran an editorial claiming she had engaged in a political incitement ahead of the 2011 shooting of Gabby Giffords, incorrectly drawing ties to an advertisement. The Times issued a Correction in under 24 hours, but Palin's legal team argued the mistake was actual malice. The bar for actual malice is high, established in 1964 case very famous New York Times versus solemn, which the Trump administration is trying to get overturned and or changed, protects news outlets from liability when they publish false statements as long as they did not do so knowingly or willingly or with actual malice. Supreme Court justice again, Thomas and Gorsuch called for the court to revisit the malice standard. For well known people, if you're not a well known person, you can sue for defamation much easier. Obviously Palin is super well known, so she came back the second time. It was like in two hours. The Times had great lawyers, FYI. And also the person who made the mistakes, James Bennett, who has since left the Times, apologized to Palin on the stand this time and actually cried. I know him pretty well. I thought it was quite, quite dignified for him to do so, like to apologize like that. I think it probably really helped the case. I don't think that's ever going to win. But I think this is over. This is the last stop for her unless. I don't know if she can keep appealing. But any thoughts?

[Kara Swisher]

I think she's just a trivia question at this point. She caught this moment of charisma and fire. And then over the course of the last 10 or 12 years, Governor Palin has just revealed herself to not be a serious person.

[Scott Galloway]

I thought I'd seriously usually do jokes, but go ahead.

[Kara Swisher]

Well, and then I think this is actually really important because I think this would have inspired a ton of the reality is when you're one of the key tenets of America that's really wonderful is pretty much anyone can say pretty much anything about pretty much anybody. If it ends up, you know, you're spreading misinformation against someone less powerful than you, not famous and it creates economic harm or undue stress, then you have a libel or slander case. And I think the law mostly gets it right. And they said in this case, look, you are such a public figure, you continue to say kind of insane things. People respond, people cover you. People are quite frankly biased against you and they're allowed to be biased against you. And she was unable to prove that. Look, to me this seemed fairly obvious.

[Scott Galloway]

But people were worried about this case and a lot of others, including why George Stephanopoulos, they settled for that thing that he did to Nancy Mace. Agreed. I think there were probably some sort of text that he was warned several times in that case or something. So there was something there for the reason Disney cave. There must have been. But I talked to people at Disney. They were worried that it would go to the Supreme Court. Everyone's worried about at times versus Sullivan case to the Supreme Court, which it eventually will because the right is very much intent on cutting back. They're trying to get rid of slap laws. They're trying to get which protects journalists from being nuisance lawsuits in many states, not every state, which is why they try to sue in places like Texas and other places. But they're on the march trying to overturn these things. Just like Trump tried to overturn the Civil Rights act this week. Anyway, it was good for the New York Times. It was the right decision. You're right. And lastly, late Zappos co founder Tony Hsieh have a concrete plans for his $1.2 billion fortune when he died. The recently found will according to the Wall Street Journal. This was interesting. I know Tony very well. It was a sad end to a lovely person who was quite troubled. The document notes that if any family members challenges wishes all will receive nothing. Marks $3 million for Hsieh's alma mater Harvard and allocates a whole bunch of money to undisclosed recipients. He wanted to surprise. He left a lot of of post it notes of things. And so he was sort of. He had a real problem really essentially a drug problem at the end of his life. They thought he had died without instructions. And he really. The last part of his life during COVID was really disturbing, I think. So, you know, it's a coda. I'm glad he gave money to Harvard and other places, but it just reminded me of a very sad story of technology.

[Kara Swisher]

It is really sad. And it's a. I remember being invited. He had created this kind of. For lack of a better term, kind of cool e commerce hub commune kind of thing in Vegas. And he invited me to speak. They used to do these little gatherings, and everyone said, oh, you should go. It's a total party. And I never went. But his is sort of a tragic lesson on if you don't keep some perspective around why people are around you, you. And also, he's a big boy. He made his own decisions. But there's this. I forget the adage, the more famous you become, the lonelier you get is essentially. And he struck me as someone who really struggled with loneliness. And when I was with. I met with the head of Warner Brothers film, and I like to. We spitball ideas. And one of my ideas, I think the most. You know, there was that whole raft of big tech. There was bad blood. We crashed the one about Uber. And I said, the most interesting one hasn't been told. I think the story of Tony Hsieh is actually the most interesting story.

[Scott Galloway]

I would agree. That's a great idea. It is interesting. I mean, I spent a lot of time with Tony and interviewed him many times. He was a gentle soul. We would have a running joke because he was a hugger. He'd always be like, come in. He did this happiness tour, which sort of was a tell. He was so sad. He needed to have a happiness tour. But he's always like, I'm gonna hug you. And I said, I'll break your arms if you do. I did a video, which I would send you, but you wouldn't, of my tour of their. Of their Zappos office. It was a very cult like, kind of. You know how Japanese companies, they do calisthenics together and that kind of stuff. He was trying to have this sort of happiness thing. And he had a guy who was head of happiness there and would take you through on the tour. And, you know, they'd have all this, like, a lot of candy happening, a lot of sugar, a lot of, like, creative stuff in the. In the office with the people. And everyone had their own little teams. It was. I found it. I said. I called it forced fun. I was like, I don't Wanna have any forced fun with people at work. But he tried to create these ethos. And he did the same thing in Vegas, creating. Trying to revive downtown Vegas. And a lot of it was very. Not much about him. And he had this Holacracy thing. We wrote about it a bunch at Recode. He had a whole theory of management and it just was. I remember last time I saw him, I thought. Which was. He came to code every year and he's a very good poker player. And he was drinking. He had a certain drink. He drank a lot of it was not absinthe, but it was like that. It was something Fernet. He loved Fernet. That was it. And he was so sad, you could tell. And was sort of was jocular, you know, forced jocularity, but a very gentle soul.

[Kara Swisher]

Anyway, so back to me, and I'll relate this to nitrous. I love nitrous. And I have terrible dental hygiene. I've come out of the closet as somebody. I brush my teeth twice a day. That's it. I think. Think I've flossed maybe six times in my life. And it's like. It's literally like social shaming. And I go. And every time I go into the dentist to get my teeth clean, they're like, you know, your gums are a little bit inflamed. You really see this? I'm like, look, you're going to give me a bunch of shit, a bunch of pics, a bunch of devices. I'm not going to use any of it. I get my teeth cleaned every three months. I want you to turn the nitrous up. I want you to turn on Tom Petty. I will be back here in three months, but. Save the speech. I don't have good dental hygiene.

[Scott Galloway]

You can't fix it if you don't do that. You need to have. Have a. Like, everything you have to do.

[Kara Swisher]

What are you part of the pulsing health industrial complex? No. If you get your teeth cleaned every three months, that's. That's that. That helps you.

[Scott Galloway]

I'm. You're gonna have no gums and I'm gonna. I'm gonna laugh at your dentures someday. You need to do those things. You need to have a. I'm sending you a water pick. You need a water pick at least.

[Kara Swisher]

I tried that.

[Scott Galloway]

It's amazing. Water picks are great. I. I do a water pick twice a day. I love it. It's great. My gums are excellent. Anyway, let's go on a quick break. When we come back. Enough with the water pick.

[Kara Swisher]

No joke. My son, my youngest son won't come into our bathroom anymore cause I traumatized him but by chasing him around with a water pick.

[Scott Galloway]

Oh, okay, okay.

[Kara Swisher]

All right.

[Scott Galloway]

When we come it's not a weapon. When we come back, Elon heads back to Tesla and Scott makes a great prediction. Support for this show comes from Delete Me. There's a whole online industry of data brokers. Things that are really best kept private, like your name, contact info, photos and addresses could all be compiled by data brokers and sold online. Deleteme makes it easy, quick and safe to remove your personal data online at a time when surveillance and data breaches are common enough to make everyone vulnerable. I have not had a data breach, thankfully, but I've known lots of people who have and the consequences are very dire. So much your stuff is exposed and I really enjoy Delete Me because you can really see what you can do to help prevent it or just to know what's out there and get to be very aware of data breach is in the modern age. Take control of your data and keep your private life private by signing up for Deleteme now at a special discount for our listeners. Get 20% off your Delete Me plan when you go to JoinDeleteMe.com pivot and use the promo code PIVOT at checkout. The only way to get 20% off is to go to JoinDeleteMe.com pivot and enter code pivot at checkout. That's JoinDeleteMe.com pivot code pivot.

[Kara Swisher]

Support for Pivot comes from Vanta. If you could automate 90% of one part of your life, you might choose cleaning your house or writing thank you notes or working out. But if you're a startup founder or a security professional, you'd probably choose compliance makes sense. Achieving and maintaining compliance takes a ton of time and money. Vanta is a trust management platform that helps businesses automate up to 90% of their work for in demand security frameworks including Stock, ISO 27001 and HIPAA. Vanta also saves businesses time by centralizing security processes and helping them complete security questionnaires up to five times faster with AI. And Vanta saves you money. A recent IDC white paper found that Vanta customers achieve $535,000 per year in benefits. Making sure your company is meeting its security compliance standards isn't optional, but with Vanta, the amount of time you need to spend on on it is. Go to vanta.com pivot to meet with a Vanta expert about your business needs. That's vanta.com pivot.

[Scott Galloway]

Support for this show comes from Smartsheet. Did you know there is one human experience more universal than death and taxes? What do you think it is? Take a guess. Okay, I'll tell you. It's creativity. I know you're probably thinking, yeah, right, I'm not that creative. Or maybe you're thinking, I am creative, but I have just so much trouble tapping into my creativity. And in that, my friend, you are not alone. Because perhaps there is actually one thing more universally human than death and taxes and creativity. Distraction. That's where smartsheet comes in. Smartsheet is the work management platform here to help you clear clutter, break down barriers, and streamline your workflows to allow your creativity to, you know, flow. Its innovative platform lets you team find its rhythm, no matter the obstacles. When robots emerge, smartsheet empowers teams to chart a new course, one where innovation thrives. We all have the power to tap into creative flow. We just need some help clearing away distractions. And Smartsheet knows exactly how to do that. Smartsheet, work with Flow. Learn [e-mail] Vox Scott, we're back. Elon says he's shocker of shocker. Elon says he's scaling back this time Doge starting in May, claiming his work is mostly done, which means he got nothing done. He will instead be allocating more of his time to Tesla. The announcement came in the wake of Tesla's brutal earnings report, with net income falling 71% during the first quarter of 2025. In a letter to shareholders, the company referenced changing political sentiment that could have meaningful impact on demand for our products in the near term. You think? Tesla's shares were up over 5% following his announcement. He's returning to the company, which is shocking because A, I think him not returning the company is probably better for it. And as of this recording, it's still up. We've, of course, been calling this for weeks. Scott, let's listen to what you said back in February.

[Kara Swisher]

Doge and Elon Musk are going to fade away. Because you can be sure he's doing the math and he's like, even if I can get rid of all those pesky regulators, I'm still losing money here because my sales are plummeting. Because the general public across the US much less Europe, when they see these idiots surrendering to Putin and when they see the type of recklessness and they see that they're not saving any money, all they're doing is making our government less competent. You're going to see Tesla sales continue to plummet, Tesla stock continue to go down and I think he's going to fade into the. He's going to fade back to the corporate sector.

[Scott Galloway]

Boom goes Scott Galloway. This is why we want a webby. This is why, why. This is why. So it all came true. Obviously. Besides the shares being up though, if you look take apart the report, they would have been drastically non profitable had it not been for selling emissions things that Trump is trying to get rid of and investments I think in Bitcoin or something like that. It earned this 595 million. And again these regulatory credits to other automakers which are going to be rolled back was critical to that it wasn't because of cars. Do you think the companies. Let's go for more. Has the company been permanently damaged? And again I would underscore it's not just the political stuff. They haven't made a great product. They made the cybertruck which is a dud and they haven't rolled out great products at other car makers because all other car makers are going up in EVs and hybrids. So more than 47% of Americans have a negative view of the company according to new CNBC survey and more than 52% have a negative view of Musk. So how did they get out of the brand hole? Also financially he's touting Robo Taxis which he says will move the financial needle in a significant way. But this is not true. He's got competitors with waymo. He's predicting 1 million units of the Optimus robots in less than 5 years. I think Optimus robots is the cybertruck of the next thing that he's doing. So what do you see in the next couple of. Let's have some predictions from Scott Galloway this topic.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, but whatever I predict about Tesla tends to be wrong.

[Scott Galloway]

I'm not talking about the stock because I think you were right about. I'm talking about can it pull out of this hole one can they pull it? I think they can't but I'd love to know what you think.

[Kara Swisher]

Well, it all comes down to one thing. It's very mundane, it's product. If they come up with a hip product, they're kind of back. The problem is that this has become a meme stock and keep in mind Automotive revenue declined 20% year on year. Carol era. They're now the fastest declining automobile company I think in the world. I'm having trouble thinking of an automobile company that declined 20% year on year. And what is just so fucking cynical about Elon Musk is he goes after he parachutes into town with a chainsaw and starts talking about government waste. Without government subsidies, this company would have lost money. It's just so incredibly cynical. It's government largesse and subsidies, these emissions regulatory that are the, the only reason that Tesla kept in was in the black. And then the thing about Tesla that said that we're not even an automotive company and if we are an automotive company or an entirely different type of automotive company is they could point to the fact that electric cars have much fewer parts, dramatically collapsing the supply chain. He milled a lot of his own products, which would increase margin. He's technically the most vertical automaker in the world. And also to Tesla's credit, it's the most American made car in America, meaning more parts that go into their car are from America. And as a result, in 2022, Tesla had operating margins of 20% which is staggering. That's double, that's at least double what the other big automakers report in terms of operating margin. But what's happened this year, this quarter, their operating margins have dropped to 2.1%. So this is an unprofitable government subsidized. I mean this is DeLorean. This is a company that's riding on government subsidies.

[Scott Galloway]

Fine for the kids. What DeLorean is just so you know.

[Kara Swisher]

Oh, do you remember John DeLorean?

[Scott Galloway]

Yes, I do.

[Kara Swisher]

John DeLorean was kind of a man's man in the 70s. I think he came from Chrysler, GM and he was considered the best automobile designer. He designed the Pontiac GTO and he raised a shit ton of money to start a new automobile company called DeLorean. That was famously portrayed in Back to the Future. And he got huge subsidies from the United Kingdom to say, the United Kingdom said, all right, we're going to give this company enormous subsidies to try and reinspire manufacturing domestically similar to a tariff. And then the car was kind of underpowered and just didn't have any consumer reception. And then this photo came out of, I think it was a warehouse in Ireland showing thousands of deloreans just sitting there. He was on the ropes. The UK said no more subsidies, it was not selling. And basically they set up a sting, the US government to try and entrap him. And they did and gave him the opportunity and seduced a guy, in my opinion, unfairly, who was desperate to pull his company out of this tailspin. And he agreed to finance or take part in what was Ultimately a cocaine trade. And he was arrested on the spot. I believe he served some time and then he converted to Christianity. And he was the he you want to talk about a fall from grace. He was also married to one of the most beautiful women and a big model at the time, Christina Ferrara, I think her name was. But he was an American icon that really fell from grace. And there's a couple, I mean a lot of life lessons here. But more specifically, cars are almost impossible to make on a single platform. Rivian, which is an amazing car, if you buy one for 80 grand, it's costing them 120 grand. It's all about scale. And when the sales of Tesla go down, it's an especially big hit to earnings. Because this is a business all about scale. And when you start descaling, your profits are the tail of the whip. But it's insane that this company and the stock went up. That's what I don't get.

[Scott Galloway]

Well, because they think it's a meme stock. Here's the problem. He has been warned by his own employees about the cybertruck. He was warned about, about different things where they warn him. The other thing is, as we talked about last week, rolling odometers faster, all stuff like that saying we're gonna like. I think this week he said he keeps going on and on about self driving. That is not. He's nowhere near. He's been bragging, as you noted. You put the list of things he's told untruths about or just, well, he's dreaming, I'll say his dreams of what's gonna happen. And so if he's gotta deliver and not promise. And the same thing with Doge. Two trillion or two trillion, not one trillion, two trillion I'm going to save. And then they can say 160 billion. And even that David Fahrenholt has taken apart. He probably has cost the government more through this DOGE thing than he has created. What he's done is he's destroyed things the right wing wants destroyed, like USAID or the regulators that are against him. He's not done any significant changes to the way the government, which you know, and again, as we both pointed out, maybe the government works a lot better than you think. There's fewer government officials. Evan Spiegel was pointing this out. There's fewer government workers than there were 20 years ago. And there's just more regulations, that's for sure. But he's just hasn't. This is like he has now become an over promiser, an under Deliverer. And that's what he's doing here with these ridiculous. Talking about the robo taxi. Let me just. Uber has $12 billion in revenue. That's it. That's far from a trillion dollar business. The second one. Optimus robots. Are you going to buy an Optimus robot, Scott? I don't know. Are you? Like a million units?

[Kara Swisher]

This is. Okay. These guys are geniuses in saying that we have to put something out there in the future that's exciting and exotic.

[Scott Galloway]

Love it.

[Kara Swisher]

That we'll never have to deliver up to that people can at least fill their dreams and somewhat justify such that I can have Cathie Wood say there's going to be a billion robots and justify my irrational valuation. By the way. Just. I need to correct this. He was found. DeLorean was found not guilty. And I just want to go back to this for a second. In 82, he was charged with cocaine trafficking after FBI informant James Hoffman solicited him as a financier in a scheme to sell 220lbs. It was total entrapment at the time. Time Tesla, or sorry DeLorean, was on the verge of bankruptcy. And a guy approaches you who's a federal agent and says, I have a way for you to make a lot of money if you sell 200 pounds of cocaine. And he said yes. And then they try and charge him. I mean, you want to talk about government overreach and then. Anyways. But I don't. I'm sorry. Back to Tesla. The robots. Give me a fucking break. I mean, come on. That is even more pie in the sky than a million self driving, driving Tesla taxis. That is just insane. And by the way, the robots they featured at that big event were being controlled by people 15ft. Same thing with feet away.

[Scott Galloway]

Same thing with self driving. Same thing with the self driving.

[Kara Swisher]

So you want to talk about jazz hands. But people are excited that he's back and focused on Tesla. So good for them. I have learned to stay away from this stock. But this is a company now that is underperforming Ford Motor by a long shot and yet trades at 70 times earnings and Ford trades at whatever, 10.

[Scott Galloway]

So also crazy town, I gotta tell you. He did the cybertruck, guys. He did the cybertruck. And talk about a disastrous car and the costs when he could have been doing smaller cars the way they were doing them in Japan. Adorable ones. I bet they would have done a great job at those like. And all the different. There's ones in Japan, there's ones in China. Instead he had to do his ridiculous. I have a small penis Cybertruck. And this is where we are. We'll see what he does. We'll see. Interesting to see if. One last thing. Steve Bannon, who was at this conference I was at yesterday, was noting, and I can't believe I agree with Steve Bannon on many things, but he said we need an absolute detailed list of the fraud he found, a detailed and checked independently list of the fraud he found, and a detailed list of any data that he has touched so that we know if he took it anywhere. Like these two things, like the data they've been collecting and coalescing around in a certain. What have these people done with the data? Steve Bannon is correct about this because it's going to show that very little was saved. And we have to have an independent assessment, which we're not going to have until the end of the Trump administration. But I would agree with that. And we're not going to get that, but we'll see. We don't know what's gonna happen in this stock because people have a thing with this guy, but he's definitely on a downward plunge, I think.

[Kara Swisher]

Well, let's talk a little bit about Doge. He's claimed on stage he was gonna find $2 trillion in savings. He's claimed 150 billion, which is obviously a lot less than 2 trillion. And so far, it looks as if it's approximately. They claim. Now they're saying 150 billion. It looks like it's more like 60 billion. And they can't even validate or confirm those savings. If, if you were to look at this as an audit of a $7 trillion company, the fact that they have gone in with full license and what I'll call incredible adjectives and embellishments and exaggerations around, quote, unquote, fraud and waste. The US Government has come out with literally the cleanest bill of health of any organization that would undergo this type of reckless audit. The auditors weren't there to give them a clean bill of health. The auditors were there to try and make them look stupid and exaggerate, inefficient.

[Scott Galloway]

And get rid of certain things, as I noted. Yeah.

[Kara Swisher]

And every time they think they found something or not every time, but most of the time they think they found fraud, waste or inefficiency and they posted it. Someone, someone did a little bit of research on Google and said, actually, that's not accurate. You're exaggerating the savings or the waste of the fraud here. And by the way, I don't think there's been a single case where they've said there's fraud here and we're, we're, we're charging these people. So what entity, what organization in the world could you have this type of bias, aggressive, unbridled bridled audit that's doing 700 billion a year in sales, much less 7 trillion and get this clean bill of health.

[Scott Galloway]

Although I don't even think they did a very good job. Like who knows if what's there. Who there might, I'm certain there's fraud all over the place, Medicaid and everything else.

[Kara Swisher]

But they didn't now do the Pentagon.

[Scott Galloway]

It was all, it was all. And a lot of this spending we can't, it's already with stuff we can't touch. And that's the real problem. Whether it's Medicare, whether it's defense spending, there's certain stuff that can't be touched, Social Security. And it's a bigger problem of listen at the heart we shouldn't be have these deficits, these enormous deficits. We overspend, we have too many regulations. And that's a really good thing to attack. But this has just been a ridiculous jazz hands.

[Kara Swisher]

This was nothing but a weapon of mass distraction. If the US was a household, it makes 50,000 a year, it spends 70 and it has household debt of $370,000. And the bad news is that all of the kids in that house are going to have to inherit that debt even after mom and dad die. And we don't want to have an adult conversation. The adult conversation is the following. It's a chainsaw if you believe that fiscal responsibility means not spending $7 trillion and $5 trillion in tax revenue. All roads lead to the same place folks. You either have to cut costs or cut spending or you have to raise taxes. And if you want to cut spending, you have to go after one or all of three areas and that's either entitlements, Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, defense spending or the interest on our debt. Those are the three big if you don't go after one or all of those things. Banks, you're not serious about cutting our expenses. Or you have to acknowledge that the wealthiest in our society have figured out a way to weaponize the tax code and have an alternative minimum tax. The majority of very wealthy people pay very little in tax relative to their income. Or increase corporate taxes. And what's the answer folks? All of the fucking above.

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah, but you're not going to do they Talked about it this week. Trump people and then they just have been indicating no taxes on rich people.

[Kara Swisher]

When I enter. When we enter interviewed leader Jeffries. I think there's an opportunity for the Democrats to say, we're the adults in the room. We're going to have to means test Social Security, move the age up. People like Kara Swisher and Scott Galloway should not get Social Security. It's called a Social Security tax, meaning you pay into it, it might not get it back. It's for the better common good. It's not called the Social Security pension fund. We are going to have to figure out a way to get our medical costs from $13,000 a person down to 6,500. We're going to do that by lowering the age eligibility of Medicaid and Medicare, which do a great job until we have nationalized health care. So we're going to have to cut military spending at some point or make it more efficient. And we're going to have to announce that we are going to put $40 billion a year, $7,000 a year in every baby's 401k, that they don't have access to their 65, and announce that we are doing away with all Social Security in 65 years. And then in 30 years, interest rates will come down as people see a light at the end of the tunnel where we get to do away with this $1.3 trillion in growing tax on young people. But nobody wants to have a. Callaway.

[Scott Galloway]

Is running for president. That's a really nice. I like all that, Scott.

[Kara Swisher]

Well, you know, but the Democrats have an opportunity here because the reality is the swing voters in every election that determines the president, it's not based on transgender rights, it's not based on Ukraine. As much as, as important as those issues are, they don't swing elections. What swings elections is people in their 30s who are moderates, who basically vote on who they think will give them the best prospects to establish economic security and have a reasonable life. And it swings back and forth. It's a swing issue. And over the last last 40 years, Democratic administrations have created 40 million jobs, Republicans have created 1 million, Democrats need to seize. We're the adults in the room. We have to have an honest, hard conversation around our deficits and our fiscal and monetary policy, because this is not sustainable. And you know what? People will respect it. And then when I ask Leader Jeffries, what they say is, well, at some point, we're going to have that conversation. At some point, tomorrow needs to be today. I think Citizens are ready for this conversation.

[Scott Galloway]

Yep, I agree. I think you need to run for president as Ed said. Apparently Ed was telling you you should run for president. That's, that's a very good, you should, you should be more involved in politics, Scott. I think you should anyway. By the way, Tesla, we think is, is in a, in the crapper by the way.

[Kara Swisher]

I just want to, I just want to not, I've been doing research. You blew my mind with the notion of a combined Tesla XAI and SpaceX, you know and I'm, I'm just like that has totally blown my mind about.

[Scott Galloway]

As long as you attribute it to me. Just attribute it, don't you?

[Kara Swisher]

I, I, I do but that, the idea of him merging all of those companies, like I can't wrap my head around what that would mean.

[Scott Galloway]

He's got to, he's got, it's the only move and he would do it. That's the two things I, I, knowing him, I don't know him well anymore but knowing him as I had known him and it's the move, it's the jazz handsome move of all time. It'll be loud, noisy, it'll be what a genius. Here's the last thing I'm going to say about this. All you people that were go were like slathering like over Elon when he was visiting Congress and we all love Doge. You don't all love Doge, you just, you are the Republicans should be embarrassed for all the, all the kiss assery they did to this guy and what he was doing and abrogating their responsibilities as legislators. Just handing it over to this guy and saying you fix it was the most irresponsible thing and someday there is going to be a reckoning at some point and you are not going to be, look, you've not bathed yourself in any kind of glory. You bathed yourself in embarrassment and suck up a reading. So that to me is really the lesson here. We'll see where it goes. But you know, I see why Donald Trump did it. The rest of you are grotesque. So is Donald Trump. But anyway, I'll note Alphabet earnings are coming after we record so we don't know what's going to happen or anything they might say about the case that they both case they've lost. But we'll discuss next week because they're really at a crossroads to Google. Certainly is. All right, Scott, let's go on a quick break. We come back, we'll talk about Trump trying to calm the markets down after his own comments created chaos. Support for today's show comes from Chevrolet. Whether it's a quick jaunt or a long journey, no matter where you're going, the all electric Equinox EV allows you to travel with confidence, comfort and connectivity. Equinox EV comes equipped with a standard 17 14.7-inch diagonal color display touchscreen, making it the largest center screen among EVs in its class. Its sleek lines and a commanding stance define the exterior of Equinox ev, while the no compromises Interior has a cargo room and storage that let you do you at a starting price of around $34,995. Equinox EV a vehicle you know value you'd expect and a dealer right down the street, you can go EV without changing a thing. Learn [e-mail] Equinox EV based on latest competitive data, the manufacturer's suggested retail price excludes tax, title, license, dealer fees and optional equipment. Dealer sets final price.

[Kara Swisher]

Support for Pivot comes from ZocDoc. When was the last time you needed to go to a doctor but you pushed it off? Off? Let's spin the wheel of excuses to see where you land. I'm too busy. It'll heal on its own. I don't need help. I don't know which doctor to go to. Look, Booking a doctor's appointment can feel daunting, but thanks to ZocDoc, there's no reason to delay. They make it so easy to find and book a doctor who's right for you. ZocDoc is a free app and website where you can search and compare high quality in network doctors and instantly book an appointment. Appointments made through the app can happen fast, typically within just 72 hours of booking. You can even book same day appointments to take some of that stress out. Once you find the right doctor, you can see their actual appointment openings and choose a time slot that works for you. Plus you can filter for doctors who take your insurance are located nearby might be a good fit for any medical need you may have and are highly rated by verified patients. You can stop putting off those doctor's appointments and go to Zocdoc.com pivot to find and instantly book a top rated Doctor today. That's Zocdoc.com pivot Zocdoc.com pivot Season one of Andor had critics calling it the best Star wars series yet. Season 2 of the Emmy nominated series is now streaming on Disney plus follow Cassian Ann as he embarks on a path from a rebel to a hero. Starring Diego Luna and from creator Tony Gilroy, writer of Michael Clayton and the bourne Identity Season 2 of Andor is now streaming only on Disney.

[Scott Galloway]

Scott we're back. It's another whiplash week on Wall Street. President Trump's attacks on the Fed chair Jerome Powell, calling him a major loser and criticizing his policies, rattled the market earlier this week, triggering a major off of stocks and bonds. Trump later said he had no intention of firing Powell. By the way, he can't. It's very hard to do so. So it doesn't matter what he thinks. He also indicated some easing of tariff tension with China. But as of Thursday morning, China is calling any reports of tariff talks, quote, baseless rumors directly aimed at Trump there, sending the Dow down briefly, although The S&P 500 has been staying steady once the again, the market markets seem to have spooked Trump as they should. He met with CEOs of Target, Walmart and Home Depot on Monday. It was interesting Amazon wasn't there, but who reportedly warned about tariffs leading to price surges and empty shells. Within weeks, a dozen states also sued to block Trump's tariff, arguing he doesn't have the authority to impose them. Even though he says he's not firing Powell, he's been undermining him. He's trying to blame, he's going to blame him for all this with the attention tax. He continues to act like he has some sort of control over this. Let's talk about that for a minute. Well, actually, let me go through everything. And with China, Trump said this week that tariffs on Chinese goods will come down substantially but won't be zero, and that the U.S. they weren't before. And the U.S. and China are actively talking, which I said China denies. One White House senior official told the Wall Street Journal that China tariffs would likely get reduced any roughly between 50 and 65%. Another Trump blink seems imminent. Again, Scott Besant and Elon Musk got in a I think it's sort of in our rearview mirror. Scott Besant won with the IRS pick. This kind of chaos is just insane. It seems he's just shooting himself in the foot over and over again and then pretending declaring victory when he goes back on the stupid thing he did. Let's hear what you think about this. Scott Galloway.

[Kara Swisher]

Well, the only two things you have to remember in a negotiation are not to make it emotional, not to have it be a win lose, and to always show a credible willingness to walk away. This guy gets an F on each of those. He's insulted them, his vice president has called them peasants. He makes it Emotional. He pisses off. People are human. If I'm a Canadian, I don't want to work with you. I'm willing to sacrifice my own economic prosperity.

[Scott Galloway]

Travel's down. Everything's down.

[Kara Swisher]

You want to talk about. And I was thinking about it today, Bill Ackman. On an unrelated note, Bill Ackman came in, out with this tweet that sent hertz stock up 100%. And he said he'd been aggregating a stake for a long time. And he said that because of these tariffs, the value of Hertz's automobile fleet is. It's a $14 billion fleet or $12 billion fleet. The cost of cars is going to go up so much because of these tariffs that it's an underappreciated asset in the sense that their Hertz fleet is now worth $1.2 billion more. And I'm like, this is the ultimate interpretive dance. Because one that's like saying, my liver and my lungs are more valuable than they are to me. Well, I'm sort of fond of them. Like, how are you going to harvest unless Hertz announces it's selling its auto fleet, which they're not going to.

[Scott Galloway]

Well, they have some of it. They do have a division that sells cars.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, but they have a division that buys cars.

[Scott Galloway]

Yes, that's correct.

[Kara Swisher]

So it should be a net neutral, right? Actually a net negative, because new cars will be more. Those costs will be more than the increase in the value of the used cars you sell. And then the countervailing force of this, what I'll call gymnastics and interpretive dance to try and turn chicken shit into chicken salad, is that the majority of the automobile rental market is based on tourism, and tourism is absolutely crashing. And let's just talk about reality here, as we're trying to boost the manufacturing sector that employs 11 million people. Has anyone noticed while we were sleeping that tourism is fucking crashing and also employs 12 million people? So all of this interpretive dance around these sycophants trying to either pump a stock they have an activist position in or trying to claim that this guy's playing 4D chess, just can't look at data. And also back to Trump. He's been very emotional.

[Scott Galloway]

I haven't turned on Bill Ackman the way I had, but go ahead.

[Kara Swisher]

He's been. I mean, it's like. I would describe the day he announced that as. Remember when you'd go to interpretive dancer, you look at modern art and you're like, oh, you want to be cool and you want to say, oh, it's beautiful. And then you look at the next person like this makes no sense. I mean, this is. His announcement that they have this undervalued asset is really modern art, interpretive.

[Scott Galloway]

Also, may I note, they have a lot of Teslas that nobody wants to rent. They did this whole. Remember they have. They have tons of Teslas. They can.

[Kara Swisher]

When's the last time you rent? It's a shitty business in structural decline.

[Scott Galloway]

But I'm just saying they do whack deal. Every time they try to give me one, I'm like, no, I shall not. And apparently nobody wants to rent a TED flow anyways.

[Kara Swisher]

It speaks to his brand, to Bill Ackman's brand that he puts out a tweet of an insane thesis that makes no sense. If you actually look at the data. Well, the stock doubled. You got to give it to him. The guy's brand clearly still means something in the market. But back to Trump. Highly emotional, creating enemies and adjectives where he doesn't need to. That will only reduce our negotiating leverage when people will put their own ego now like him, ahead of actual prosperity and fidelity to their stakeholders and to citizens and to their economy. And to two, a credible willingness to walk away. He imposes 145% tariff and then hours later says that the tariffs on Chinese goods will come down substantially but won't be zero. Then why the fuck did you go to 145%? This guy has. He is competing against people who are willing to starve millions of their own people and he thinks he's gonna intimidate them with 145. I meant. No, but they're going to come down. They're going to do. We're about to enter the stage where they try to figure out a way to basically somehow put lipstick on a pig here and call victory and stop all this nonsense. The tariffs are going to be remarkably similar to what they did, what they were before all of this nonsense. But you're going to have all these people trying to spin how it's some.

[Scott Galloway]

Sort of great victory deals, they're coming to me for deals. They're trying to kiss my ass. That whole thing.

[Kara Swisher]

All we have done here, sad, pathetic, all we have done here is massively erode brand America. It's gone from freedom, generosity, military might, prosperity, risk, aggressiveness, opportunity, rule of law to toxic uncertainty. And that, that brand does not command margins, it commands negative margins.

[Scott Galloway]

So what does he do? Okay, you look, first of all, Besant's trying to affect him, obviously. And he seems to have gained a bit of an upper hand against the two clown. The clown show of Howard, whatever his name is, and Elon. And there was an altercation, a very loud altercation between Bessant and Musk over IRS head, which the Treasury Secretary should pick. FYI, not Elon Musk. He was trying to pick a sycophant to take over the irs, where our money comes from. Um, and what would you do if you were Besant right now? Like what? Besides leave, like immediately? What would you do?

[Kara Swisher]

Well, he's kind of already done it. He clearly leaked that, that interaction and he's saying, I'm on top and I've had it with this guy. Trump is scared. He's seen as Bessant, is seen as like a sycophant, but is potentially the guy in the Oval Office that will take stuff off his desk. So he doesn't even see it that he is sort of an adult in the room. He has a reputation versus Lutnick that's just considered, Considered a clown that is now engaged in full scale corruption with his son starting a crypto company. Jesus Christ.

[Scott Galloway]

I know the crypto stuff.

[Kara Swisher]

Just when you thought this couldn't get any more corrupt. Bessette is seen as a very credible guy and behind the scenes is basically saying, okay, I'm going to do my best here. I know this is fucking batshit crazy. We know where this goes. Blank, blank, blank. Blink. Try and try and run Vaseline over the lens of incompetence here and pretend this is a victory.

[Scott Galloway]

I never made this mistake and I'm not.

[Kara Swisher]

The tariffs are gonna be look remarkably similar to where they were before. And all that's happened is we have eroded our image around the world to the detriment of our.

[Scott Galloway]

What would you do? You're sitting in the Oval Office. He has you in you for some reason. Go. And he listen. He's listening to you. What would you say to Trump to do right now?

[Kara Swisher]

If I, if he would listen to me, I would, I would immediately. I would pretend to have discussions, declare victory and leave. Just like literally find a country that's willing to do something for you. Come up with a bunch of fake reasons for why this was anything but what it was, which was insanely damaging and literally get back to the economy and try and repair as many of our alliances as possible and go on the mother of all behind the scenes apology tour because this is gonna start showing up in earnings calls. I think China might say, oh, you wanna go back to where we were? Fuck You, You've been out banging hookers and doing blow and ignoring our children. Now you've decided you wanna be married again. Sorry, boss. Sorry. I'll be at my sisters.

[Scott Galloway]

That's a nice metaphor, isn't it? Yeah.

[Kara Swisher]

Anyways, speaking for a friend.

[Scott Galloway]

Speaking for a friend. I don't know, I think the Chinese and the Europeans are now like, huh, huh. What would a life without these obnoxious Americans be 100% like, hey, I think a divorce sounds great. Like I. I'm sure that's what they're thinking. Do you know what I mean?

[Kara Swisher]

My tennis pro is texting me.

[Scott Galloway]

Wait a minute. Just a minute here.

[Kara Swisher]

My tennis pro is. My friends are going to St. Barts. That sounds pretty good.

[Scott Galloway]

He needs to. What an idiot. What a fucking idiot. I mean, the thing is, if he did a couple of things, all his stupid followers would like, clap, clap like the same.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, they'll pretend that it was genius and fort each other. So move to that part of the program as soon as possible. I mean, you literally have to put the fire out here. You have to put the fire out. But I don't know if he's.

[Scott Galloway]

He wants the 10. He's been listening to Wall Street. Wall street is the one that speaks.

[Kara Swisher]

With the adult in the room. Is the tenure. We've been saying that. Look, I don't. I'm glad Bicent is there, but I do think the raft of them. I think we're about. Well, I think we're on the cusp of a few of them being fired.

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah. What a thirsty.

[Kara Swisher]

Well, not even most of them should go. But I think he's going to try and blame a lot of this on incompetence and saying, you know, I got some bad information. These folks did the wrong thing. I've moved them out. He's going to throw a bunch of them as a. As a, you know, into the volcano, if you will.

[Scott Galloway]

Right. Yeah. Yeah, but they're certainly not going to tax the rich.

[Kara Swisher]

Look, a step back from the wrong direction is a step in the right direction. So if you were really advising the guy, you'd say as elegant, as gracefully and as respectfully as possible. You need to stop this shit really, really quickly and behind the scenes, say, call Prime Minister Carney and say congratulations. And by the way, you're a fantastic friend. A lot of this was posturing. I want to apologize to you personally. What can we do? This makes this better for both of us.

[Scott Galloway]

All he needs is affirmation. It's so sad. It's such a sad, sad that state at this age in his life that this is all he needs. But here we are anyway. Scott, one more quick break. We'll be back for predictions.

[Kara Swisher]

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[Scott Galloway]

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[Kara Swisher]

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[Scott Galloway]

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[Kara Swisher]

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[Kevin Systrom]

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[Scott Galloway]

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[Kara Swisher]

Well, some good ones I like. This is, this is always dangerous, but I'm going to do it anyways. Alphabet's reporting we're talking about Thursday. Alphabet's reporting at the end of the day and I think rumors of Alphabet's struggles have been greatly exaggerated. I still think while ChatGPT is ascending dramatically and presents does present an existential threat to search, YouTube is just an absolute juggernaut and you talk about Waymo. I just think this company is so well run and Google continues to be the largest toll booth in the history of mankind. I think that they're going to beat and I think they're going to have I think they're going to beat expectations this afternoon because I think some of those expectations have been beaten down. And then another one. I think in the next 12 to 24 months we're going to see a spin prophylactically in big tech for the first time. Time. And then I love.

[Scott Galloway]

Pick one, Pick one. I'm going to pick, we'll each pick one. I say YouTube. Well, maybe the advertising.

[Kara Swisher]

I think it's the ad business.

[Scott Galloway]

Ad business, you're right.

[Kara Swisher]

I'm sorry, ad business. Alphabet.

[Scott Galloway]

We would like YouTube, but it's probably the ad business.

[Kara Swisher]

And then the most interesting one, and this is, I'm putting words in your mouth or taking your words and I will credit you. Tesla right now has, I think it's like a $750 billion market cap, right? And when you think about, essentially when you're doing acquisitions or mergers, you want to do them when your stock, it's 806 billion, you want to do mergers when you have a really strong valuation because you end up. Steve Case sold AOL when he knew there was no way it was going to be worth a fraction of that in a matter of months or years. So that's when you sell your company. The problem is no one will buy Tesla for $805 billion except XAI. Right. Or SpaceX. And so your idea is so interesting because what he could try to do is say, okay, jazz hands will only last so long. At some point people start saying, okay, enough is enough here, folks. That $800 billion market cap is going to come way down. So the idea of taking a large revenue base, which you get from an automobile company, putting on top of it the impression and the valuation of AI with the data set of X. And also maybe some of the gross and ris and unbelievable coolness of SpaceX, which would, that would be a lot. Maybe it keeps that independent. But I think your idea is really insightful that the way to maintain that ridiculous $800 billion valuation is to cash it in now and he'll have maintain a huge stock stake and potentially do kind of one. One that's going to 0.5 plus 1 plus 1 equals 4 or 5. I think you're right. I think there's going to be, I think Tesla is going to be folded.

[Scott Galloway]

In to another merged or an AI company that makes robots.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, I, I just, I, I, I, I love that because when you said it, the moment you said it I thought, oh, that would be really smart. Smart from a shareholder perspective.

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah, it makes sense. It's also like him. It's very like him. He's Hiding things.

[Kara Swisher]

Very bold. And he has control of his board, right?

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah.

[Kara Swisher]

He doesn't care. He'll tell the board this is what we're doing. He's not scared of shareholder lawsuits.

[Scott Galloway]

Well, I wonder if he'll take it private then. There's not a lot of revenue in any of these things.

[Kara Swisher]

Can't take it private. No one will fund it. Yeah, no one will finance it.

[Scott Galloway]

A lot of revenue. Well, you know, I don't think the Starlink part, I mean the SpaceX is part of it, they have, they don't. My guess, they don't make that much money. They probably. And they've been hurt themselves, but I think they're very expensive to run that thing and I'd love to actually see the numbers from that. If someone wants to send them to me, I'd love to see them. I don't think they're wildly profitable by any stretch of the imagination. But, you know.

[Kara Swisher]

And finally, Kara, the prediction, the geopolitical prediction. So Donald Trump is having a huge impact globally, including. Including what leaders are elected or not elected. But it wasn't the impact he thought he was gonna have in the Canadian elections for Prime Minister. My prediction is that Mark Carney of the Liberal Party is gonna prevail and that is after overcoming a 25 point deficit coming into the year. And why is the Liberal Party gonna prevail here? Donald Trump. Trump, he has so pissed off Canada. And the Conservative Party nominee for Prime Minister is aligned with Trump and considered a more Trumpian candidate. And boy, has Canada turned off Trump. So in sum, Trump has elected, in my opinion or will elect Prime Minister Mark Carney of the Liberal Party and has swung the Canadian elections 23.5points because of how repellent they find Donald Trump. And the Conservative Party has been contaminated by Trump, so he is getting world leaders elected, just not the world leaders that everyone had anticipated or certainly not the ones he had hoped for. In sum, I think the underdog here, Mark Carney, is about to be the next Prime Minister of Canada solely because of the unpopularity of our American priority president. Do you have a prediction?

[Scott Galloway]

I don't. I don't. I predict I'm going to go to White House correspondent dinner parties this weekend.

[Kara Swisher]

Oh, I was going to go, but I'm not in town.

[Scott Galloway]

Why not?

[Kara Swisher]

I got asked by a friend of yours to be their date and I was really excited. She's much. She's totally cool. I won't say who it is, but.

[Scott Galloway]

A friend of mine asked you.

[Kara Swisher]

Well, a friend of ours.

[Scott Galloway]

Oh, okay. Oh, yeah, you should have. Oh, I know who it is. You should have come.

[Kara Swisher]

Emily Ratajkowski. Just saying.

[Scott Galloway]

It's not Emily Reich. Yeah, there's a. There's. Every single media company, like Axios is having something substack.

[Kara Swisher]

It looks like so much fun. You've been right.

[Scott Galloway]

The parties are fun. I hate to say it. Parties.

[Kara Swisher]

I love to go.

[Scott Galloway]

I don't go to the event itself ever, but there's like. NBC's having a party after the French embassy.

[Kara Swisher]

Ooh, the NBC party.

[Scott Galloway]

No, it's fun. It's fun. I'm telling you. I love that French embassy. It's so ridiculous. It's so, like, end times kind of partying kind of stuff.

[Kara Swisher]

The NBC party. Well, David Hasselhoff or. Or Courteney Cox be there. I was wrong. I don't want to go. You have literally said nothing. That sounds remote.

[Scott Galloway]

Let me think. Oh, UTA has a really cool party. It's really fun.

[Kara Swisher]

Oh, I had that. You just take erythromycin. Oh, wait, I'm sorry. Uta.

[Scott Galloway]

No, they're fun. They're fun. They're fun parties. They are indeed fun parties. And my friend Tammy Hadid has the famous White House correspondence in her brunch.

[Kara Swisher]

I'm convinced Tammy's running the CIA.

[Scott Galloway]

She's running the CIA.

[Kara Swisher]

She's so quiet. And then she'll pop up and be like. Like, the. The president of Gabon wants to meet with you to talk about a shipping lane deal. And I'm like, what the fuck? Who is this woman?

[Scott Galloway]

She has a famous brunch. That's really fun. That's really fun, actually.

[Kara Swisher]

Where does she get all her power? I don't.

[Scott Galloway]

She's everywhere. She's everywhere. She's a. I literally.

[Kara Swisher]

I couldn't get into. I couldn't get my visa done. I couldn't get my passport. And she's like, give me five minutes. And all of a sudden, like, the. The ambassador to Britain is calling me and sending me a car with my passport. It's like, who is this woman?

[Scott Galloway]

Tammy Hadid is the qu. White House correspondence weekend. She is.

[Kara Swisher]

She's Michael Clayton. She's a total fixer. Seriously.

[Scott Galloway]

She's also lovely. May I say she brings the best toys.

[Kara Swisher]

And went to Pitt. Went to the University of Pittsburgh.

[Scott Galloway]

She's from Pittsburgh. She was in Pittsburgh this weekend. She's the best. We love that Tammy Hadded. Anyway, so I wish you were here. We'd have a good time.

[Kara Swisher]

I met Tammy Haddad before I met you. We were doing a conference together. I Don't think I'd ever met you or I met you for a podcast. But we went to, I think it was south by Southwest. But I showed up and this woman came up to me and she was so nice and so on my face. I'm like, who is this? Very friendly. And I said, and I saw it was so adorable in the back. It was in the makeup room. There was this little adorable boy asleep on the couch. And I'm like, I should probably pre game with Kara. And they go, where is she? And she goes. And then they pointed at the little boy. You were sleeping on the couch. You look like a nine year old boy. It was so loud. I'm like, she can sleep here, I can sleep. And that was one of my first images of you where you were just on a couch sleeping with hundreds of people around you.

[Scott Galloway]

I love that. To sleep, like grabbing stuff. I'm such a good sleeper.

[Kara Swisher]

You're like Winston Churchill.

[Scott Galloway]

I can sleep anywhere. It's so true. Anyway, Tammy, that's great. And she's very tall and she's got this great shock of white hair and she's fantastic. She's a fantastic lady. Anyway, Tammy, good luck this weekend. I will see you at the party. We want to hear from you. Send us your questions about business, tech or whatever's on your mind. Go to nymag.com pivot to submit a question for the show or call 855-51-Pivot. Elsewhere in the Scott and Carrie universe, this week on Profit G Market, Scott, who's on a tear, spoke with Ryan Peterson, the founder and CEO of Flexport who is was the. He replaced someone that he brought in from Amazon. It's a leader in global supply chain management about the impact of terrorists. What a great person to tap. Let's listen.

[Kevin Systrom]

If they don't change anything in this 145% duty sticks on China, it'll take out like mass bankruptcies.

[Kara Swisher]

You're talking like 80% of small business that buys from China will just die.

[Scott Galloway]

And millions of employees will go, you.

[Kevin Systrom]

Know, will be unemployed. I mean, it's sort of why I'm like, they obviously have to back off the trade.

[Scott Galloway]

Like that can't be that.

[Kevin Systrom]

They just do that. I don't believe that they're that crazy.

[Scott Galloway]

That's a great idea to do an interview there, Scott. That's great.

[Kara Swisher]

I love supply chain stuff. I invested. One of my best investments of the last few years was I invested in a company called Zero 100, which was supply chain research. I think so. I think if you look at everything.

[Scott Galloway]

Dull investments, that's where you make your big bucks, isn't it? Dallas?

[Kara Swisher]

Quick lesson, quick lesson. When you're thinking about how to allocate and invest your most precious assets, your financial capital, and even more precious, your human capital, it's very easy. ROI on the X side of the scale, Sex appeal on the, on the x axis, it essentially the sexier the business, the lower the roi. If someone wants you to invest in a members club downtown for artists and creatives, join the club. Do not invest, invest. If someone wants you to invest in software as a service for scheduling healthcare maintenance workers, if it sounds so fucking awful, you wouldn't want to work there. That's where you write a check. Because anything that's sexy is overinvested, which drives down returns. The less sexy, the more return on your invested capital. Also, think about that in terms of your career. If you're going for something sexy, you better get bright green lights that you're in the top 1%. Otherwise, find something boring. And this is what creates passion, mastery, artisanship, and be able to take care of your kids and your parents.

[Scott Galloway]

I love that. Scott. So don't invest in Scott Galloway because he's dead sexy. Hello, ladies. Okay, that's the show. Hello. Thanks for listening to Pivot and be sure to like and subscribe to our YouTube channel. We'll be back next week. Scott, read us out.

[Kara Swisher]

Today's show was produced by Larry Neyman, Zoe Marcus and Taylor Griffin. Ernie and Her Todd engineered this episode. Jim Mackle edited the video. Thanks also to Drew Burrows, Ms. Sivero and Dan Shalon Nishak Kirwa as Fox Media's Executive Executive Producer podcast, make sure you subscribe to the show wherever you listen to podcasts. Thanks for listening to Pivot from New York Magazine and Vox Media. You can subscribe to the [e-mail] pod we'll be back next week for another breakdown of all things tech and business.