Elon’s Harem, Trump v. Harvard, and Zuckerberg on the Stand

Summary

Pivot Podcast Summary: "Elon’s Harem, Trump v. Harvard, and Zuckerberg on the Stand"

Released on April 18, 2025 by New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network.

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Introduction

In this episode of Pivot, hosts Kara Swisher and Scott Galloway delve into the tumultuous intersections of technology, politics, and business. From Elon Musk's controversial personal life to President Trump's escalating battles with academic institutions and the ongoing antitrust trial of Meta's Mark Zuckerberg, the hosts provide sharp and unfiltered analysis of the most pressing issues shaping our world today.

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Elon Musk’s Controversial Personal Life

The episode kicks off with a discussion on Elon Musk's reported personal endeavors, specifically his alleged efforts to create an "army of super babies." Drawing from an explosive Wall Street Journal report, Swisher and Galloway examine Musk's unconventional approach to family and reproduction.

Notable Quote:

• Kara Swisher [31:50]: "This romantic hero has even used social platform X to recruit willing wombs."

The hosts criticize Musk's methods, highlighting the ethical implications and the potential manipulation of women involved in his schemes. They express concern over the impact on the children and the role of Musk's facilitator, Jared Birchall.

Notable Quote:

• Kara Swisher [34:11]: "What really concerns me here is that these kids are getting manipulated by Musk in terms of what they're gonna pay the mothers and this and that..."

Galloway extends the conversation to broader societal issues, arguing that Musk's actions exacerbate income inequality and contribute to the destabilization of traditional family structures.

Notable Quote:

• Scott Galloway [36:17]: "Income inequality is the biggest thing threatening the US... young men who feel are sequestering from society and becoming shitty citizens."

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President Trump vs. Federal Reserve and Harvard

A significant portion of the discussion centers around President Trump's assault on Federal Reserve Chair Jerome Powell and his escalating feud with Harvard University over Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion (DEI) programs.

Trump vs. Federal Reserve: Swisher and Galloway analyze Trump's repeated threats to terminate Powell's tenure, emphasizing the potential economic ramifications of undermining the Fed's independence.

Notable Quote:

• Scott Galloway [13:24]: "If you could fire Chairman Powell, it could take the market down 5 or 8,000 points."

Galloway warns that such actions could lead to market destabilization, comparing the situation to historic corrections of income inequality through turmoil.

Notable Quote:

• Scott Galloway [05:19]: "When we get to these levels of income inequality throughout history, they self-correct through war, famine, and oftentimes revolution."

Trump vs. Harvard: The conversation shifts to Trump's attempts to revoke Harvard's tax-exempt status following the university's refusal to dismantle DEI programs. Swisher praises Harvard's resilience and financial preparedness, while Galloway underscores the strategic missteps of the Trump administration in targeting elite institutions.

Notable Quote:

• Kara Swisher [26:55]: "Harvard could be doing all kinds of really interesting things in research."

Notable Quote:

• Scott Galloway [21:23]: "This has as much to do with antisemitism as evangelicals liking Israel... it's morally corrupt."

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Meta’s Antitrust Trial: Zuckerberg on the Stand

A focal point of the episode is Meta Platforms Inc.'s antitrust trial, where Mark Zuckerberg and Sheryl Sandberg took the stand. The hosts dissect Zuckerberg's strategies and the broader implications for the tech industry.

Key Points:

• Acquisitions for Neutralizing Competition: Galloway points out that Meta's acquisition of Instagram was a strategic move to neutralize competition, labeling this as illegal anticompetitive behavior.

  Notable Quote:

  • Scott Galloway [48:48]: "We need to neutralize a competitor. That right there, that statement that's illegal..."

• Potential Remedies: The discussion includes possible outcomes of the trial, such as fines or the forced spin-off of Instagram, which Galloway argues would benefit shareholders and encourage market competition.

  Notable Quote:

  • Scott Galloway [50:47]: "Shareholders would do better... employees win tax revenue, shareholders win."

• Impact on Innovation: Both hosts agree that breaking up Meta could lead to increased competition and innovation within the social media landscape.

  Notable Quote:

  • Scott Galloway [56:36]: "Unleash so much competition and innovation and innovation..."

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Nvidia’s AI Supercomputers and US Manufacturing

The hosts also touch upon Nvidia's strategic moves amidst US-China trade tensions. Nvidia announced plans to produce AI supercomputers entirely within the United States, aiming to bypass impending tariffs.

Key Points:

• Investment and Export Restrictions: Galloway criticizes Nvidia's response as performative, suggesting that repackaging existing investments without substantial economic rationale is ineffective.

  Notable Quote:

  • Scott Galloway [43:27]: "Announcing investment is performative... stocks are now trading based on the prediction markets of the mad King."

• Economic Implications: The discussion highlights the broader economic challenges posed by US tariffs and the volatility they introduce into the market.

  Notable Quote:

  • Scott Galloway [43:45]: "This is just not the way to run an economy."

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Mark Carney’s Insights and US-Canada Relations

In a lighter segment, the hosts reference an interview with Canada's Prime Minister Mark Carney, discussing the strained US-Canada trade relationship under the current administration.

Key Points:

• Economic Restructuring: Carney expresses Canada's willingness to restructure its economy in response to US trade policies, emphasizing a sense of betrayal and the need to build alliances with other nations.

  Notable Quote:

  • Scott Galloway [71:01]: "We set up businesses, we know lots of Americans... but all of a sudden, we get these attacks."

• Personal Connection: Carney shares a poignant moment reflecting on his relationship with his late father, adding a humanizing dimension to the geopolitical discussions.

  Notable Quote:

  • Mark Carney [71:38]: "If you could go back and speak to someone who's not with us anymore. Who would it be and what would you say?"

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Predictions and Future Outlook

Towards the end of the episode, Galloway offers bold predictions regarding the political and economic landscape:

• Republican and Business Pushback: He anticipates that Fortune 500 CEOs and Republican leaders will begin to publicly oppose President Trump's aggressive tactics, citing the escalating economic and moral damages.

  Notable Quote:

  • Scott Galloway [67:56]: "There is economic incentive now to come out against this shit."

• Long-Term American Resilience: Despite the current turmoil, Galloway maintains optimism about America's long-term resilience and capacity to overcome short-term missteps through generosity and leadership.

  Notable Quote:

  • Scott Galloway [65:00]: "Over the medium and the long term, we demonstrate tremendous generosity and leadership."

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Conclusion

Kara Swisher and Scott Galloway conclude the episode by reiterating their concerns over the current political climate, the integrity of major institutions, and the ethical responsibilities of tech leaders. They emphasize the importance of holding powerful entities accountable and the potential for significant economic and societal shifts in the near future.

Final Notable Quote:

• Scott Galloway [72:45]: "The worm has turned. We are going to see people who Supposedly were part of the cult... they're going to remember that this guy's quote, 'first they came for the socialists, then they came for the trade unionists...'"

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Key Takeaways

• Elon Musk's Personal Conduct: Raises ethical and societal concerns regarding manipulation and the destabilization of family structures.
• Trump's Attacks on Institutions: Undermining the Fed and targeting Harvard threatens economic stability and academic freedom.
• Meta’s Antitrust Trial: Highlights illegal anticompetitive practices and the need for increased market competition.
• Nvidia and US Manufacturing: Demonstrates the complexities of navigating US-China trade tensions and the risks of performative corporate strategies.
• US-Canada Relations: Reflects the broader geopolitical repercussions of domestic policies and the importance of international alliances.
• Future Predictions: Suggests a potential shift in political and business leadership dynamics as resistance to unchecked power grows.

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For those interested in the intricate dynamics between technology, politics, and business, this episode of Pivot offers a comprehensive and engaging analysis, enriched with candid insights and forward-looking predictions.

Transcript

[Kara Swisher]

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[Scott Galloway]

TikTok has figured out I want to see an economist talking about interest rates or a woman talking about social issues that forgot to put her bra on.

[Kara Swisher]

What about it was economists putting his bra on?

[Scott Galloway]

That's good.

[Kara Swisher]

Hi everyone. This is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media podcast network. I'm Kara Swisher.

[Scott Galloway]

So when I'm in New York every morning, a ritual for me is I make coffee and I order quiche and blueberry muffin and a chai latte from Baltazar. And then I go and I have my morning ritual, as in my sit down, you know, I like to stay regular. And then the doorman will put the Balthazar delivery in the elevator and I heard the elevator door open and if I don't get it, it goes all the way back down. And I'm always worried that someone's Going to steal my chai latte from Balthazar.

[Kara Swisher]

Okay.

[Scott Galloway]

And so I literally.

[Kara Swisher]

I'm not sure where this is going, but okay.

[Scott Galloway]

With all the grace and strength of a jungle cat, I leapt up from the basin. And at that moment, it dawned on me. I'm an astronaut. And in between the time between my flight between the basin and the ceramic, I realized we're all one part of the same species, Kara. We're all, oh, Katy Perry, why can't we just love each other? And I recognized when I got back to Earth, everything had just changed for me, Kara. Everything had just changed. Yeah.

[Kara Swisher]

Did you kiss the ground or. Kiss the ground?

[Scott Galloway]

Can you get over how much shit these women are getting?

[Kara Swisher]

Oh, my God. But can I tell you, I'm sorry to say, deserved. I, like, I was trying to see the goodness in it. It's because they won't stop defending themselves when something was just. They should shush. And also, let me say, they did some stuff for women in stem, but they're talking about themselves and not girls and women in tech, Especially when people are getting cut. It's just the. It's. They just need to stop talking.

[Scott Galloway]

There's so much about this I love. My favorite moment was when they live broadcast that the people kind of. You know, there was the act, people at Blue Origin saying, two minutes to launch. And someone said, and this is so exciting, when they're up there, Katy Perry is going to sing. And right on cue, someone from Blue Origin goes, one minute warning. That was classic. That was just perfect.

[Kara Swisher]

The memes are fantastic and they are funny, and I think they're hitting because they're true. Like the one about the best one, I think I posted and so did you, was what happens when a bachelorette party comes into a gay bar? This is the picture.

[Scott Galloway]

Exactly.

[Kara Swisher]

Exactly. Like a straight lady's, like, whooping it up and stuff.

[Scott Galloway]

I think we should start a conspiracy that the Katy Perry that came back is not the same Katy Perry that went up. Something is going on here. Oh, they may have replaced her, but there's actually. I have two sort of observations or a couple of things that struck me. The first is kind of trivially. The other, I think, is more, I don't know, meaningful. If the magazine industry. Did you see the COVID of Elle?

[Kara Swisher]

Yes, it was. Yes.

[Scott Galloway]

If the magazine industry wanted to just confirm that it's become totally irrelevant and tone deaf, they managed to do it.

[Kara Swisher]

For people who don't know Elle did a cover with them on it.

[Scott Galloway]

And it's not just Hearst. I mean, did you see the Vanity Fair cover of Tim Cook with his mixed reality headset on?

[Kara Swisher]

Yes, that was.

[Scott Galloway]

They decided that that had something to do with. Anyways. And then that cover from Elle, it was literally like, we need the world to. We need to put a fine point on the fact that we as magazines are not only no longer relevant, but we're totally tone deaf. Anyways, that's my trivial observation. My more.

[Kara Swisher]

That's a deeper one.

[Scott Galloway]

My more substantive observation that I'd like your thoughts on is that when we get to these levels of income inequality throughout history, they self correct through war, famine, and oftentimes revolution. Right? And when the guillotine shows up, it's okay. They come up with a crime and maybe this person committed the crime, maybe they didn't. But they're essentially at the end of the day, the crime is that the 1% have been just fucking the bottom 99% for way too long.

[Kara Swisher]

Way too long. I was just gonna say I think it's really interesting how much it's stuck. And especially what's really fun is people are having fun, which I think is funny. And I like that. But it's like very high profile people. Like just a lot of celebrities are like, what in the actual fuck is going on? Which is surprising. They usually keep quiet about each other. You know what I mean? They really do. But a lot of people who don't are saying things. Some are doing really funny things. Like the woman who's in Hacks, who plays. She's amazing. She plays a manager. I'm blanking on her name. She did this whole fake space flight. Everyone's really being creative, but that it strikes at a chord of something that is. And especially I think it is when they're saying it's sexist to say it's a ride. I think this is what Gayle King said. It's sexist to say it's a ride. When Alan Shepard did it. When she did the Alan Shepard. Alan Shepard, that's who she was comparing it to.

[Scott Galloway]

You mean someone who trained as an astronaut his whole life?

[Kara Swisher]

Like, this was the 60s, Gail. This was hard. This was dangerous back then. And more dangerous, obviously, it's always dangerous to go up in space. But the fact that they're pretending it's feminist when it's not feminist is anti feminist. Right. That's the thing is.

[Scott Galloway]

Well, they look ridiculous. They make attaching it. It's vanity, rebranded as feminism or adventure. But where I was headed was the following is that I think this can be reverse engineered to income Inequality, and that is my thesis around Black Lives matter and the MeToo movement was that these were righteous moments inspired by real concerns over systemic racism, the murder of George Floyd, over the fact that women have just been taking on the wrong end of abuse and unjust power dynamic at work. These are credible movements. But if you look at who they went after, they didn't go after sexism at small or medium sized business, they didn't go after racism across the middle class. They go after rich people. And I think this is part of that revolution and that is people are just so sick of rich people trying to claim the little social status they don't have. And people are just fucking angry. If they had sent up, you know, six middle class teachers or whatever people, it wouldn't have gotten any attention. But this is every revolution and I think we're quote unquote rounding up people. It just takes on a different complexion. We're rounding up people and sending them to El Salvador. This is a form of revolution, but it's little revolutions. And if you look at it, who people are going for, they're eating the rich because at the end of the day they look at these people and they go, this system has just become so perverted and slanted towards giving the top.01% everything, including some sort of false sense of adventure or heroism. And people have just, people just had it. I again, I think this all can be reversed to income inequality.

[Kara Swisher]

The rich need to stay quiet. That's what I feel like, like shut.

[Scott Galloway]

Up, be rich and anonymous. Go to space on your own time. Good for you.

[Kara Swisher]

You know, it's really interesting because you know this White House correspondents dinner is happening next weekend and one of our friends, I don't think I'm supposed to say who said it, but said one of the problems with it is that this sort of prostrating before administration thing has always been an issue. Like they go and they yuck it up with their sources kind of thing. And it has a real bad feel to it. Why not invite real journalists? If it's about the First Amendment, that dinner, instead of trying to like hustle to get a good celebrity at your table, like that's what the press does, it tries to outdo each other and celebrity gets get real journalists from across the country and you know, from small towns and everywhere else doing things and celebrate them at the dinner. Like that's the kind of thing that the sort of, the people that really do labor in very difficult circumstances aren't getting the attention when all these other people Are like just like performing in front of us and sort of stick. It is sort of a. One of the best lines would let them eat space. Which I thought was great.

[Scott Galloway]

That's good.

[Kara Swisher]

Let them eat space. And I was like, ugh. And I want you to stop defending it. Just. You realize I was awkward. We get it. We should have given a bunch of money to women and girls. We should have talked about the inequities. And even there was the breakthrough awards that Silicon Valley does every year. Another celebrity fest where the rich people give money to various and sunny scientists and stuff like that. Seth Rogen made a comment that was really true about rich people. And they cut it out of the feed. They cut it out of the feed. Seth Rogen, who's so funny. That kind of stuff. Like, you can't even. Like, they can't even make fun of themselves. It's a really weird time. Can I add something else? But we're gonna move on because we've got a lot to get to. Including Trump versus Harvard, which I know you see you're wearing a Harvard shirt. Elon's harem. Obviously Zuck on the standard and a bunch of stuff. But just briefly, what was super funny is that the disconnect is really real and people are trying to figure out a way through it. And I went out to dinner last night. I took my mom out to dinner with a bunch of my friends, and we're coming out of the restaurant and one of our Pivot fans stopped us, and she worked for Pat Murphy, and her boyfriend said, I work for Kristin Gillibrand. And my mom was there in her wheelchair. And my mom's son goes like that, Right? Because it's Christy Tiller. And the woman goes, oh, you're the fox mother. You're the fox mother. You're lucky. And it was so funny and tried to get. So humor is a good way to do it. I know it sounds crazy. We were in hysterics. And mom was even laughing because everyone was doing their little performative part. But it was actually true. And so the thing I do like about this whole space thing is humor. Like, there's humor here.

[Scott Galloway]

It's funny.

[Kara Swisher]

Which is funny. Anyway. I just. That's the only part. They need to, like, stand down or shut up. Stand down. Laugh at themselves or shut up. That's my feeling. Anyway, let's go first because a very important thing. President Trump has lashed out again at Fed Chair Jerome Powell, saying Powell's termination cannot come fast enough. The attack comes a day after Powell warned That tariffs could create a challenging scenario for the central bank as it decides whether to control inflation or support economic growth. I mean that's like the calmest thing. Challenging scenario is like a calm way of saying man the man the barricades. Let's listen to what Powell said exactly about the Fed's independence too, speaking at the Economic Club of Chicago.

[Scott Galloway]

So our independence is a matter of law. Congress has, in our statute, we're not removable except for cause. We serve very long terms, seemingly endless terms.

[Kara Swisher]

So it's, we're protect, protected in the law.

[Scott Galloway]

So you know, Congress could change that law, but there's, I don't think there's any danger of that. Fed independence has pretty broad support across both political parties and in, in both sides of the Hill. So I think that's not a problem.

[Kara Swisher]

PowerStrom ends in May 2026. Oh God, I'm so nervous about that. So he keeps threatening to fire him and he's done it at the ftc, which had a level of independence and he just does it obviously he's doing it with everything like whether it's Harvard or. We'll get to that in a second. Do you have much confidence in staying power, the Fed's independence in the Trump administration? He's doing it at the Justice Department. Pam Bondi has lost ever loving fucking mind, by the way. Speaking of which, her appearances this week have been embarrassing. Can you talk a little bit about that? What happens here? Because he just runs through stop signs like no problem whatsoever.

[Scott Galloway]

I have such a inability to predict what's going to happen here. There's been so many things that have been disqualifying what I thought were red lines that they've just blown through and people are sort of, I don't know, seem fairly numb to. But if you want to talk about a move that could take the market down 5 or 8,000 points, it's fire Chairman Powell. Because the separation of central banks from politics is one of the key stabilizing factors in the western economy. Because what you have is a group of people who. Elected leaders who panic. And the reason they usually get voted out of office can almost always be reverse engineered to economic strain on the citizens. And a quick kind of fix or sugar high to get you out of trouble would just be to flood the market or lower interest rates which might be over the medium or the long term, absolutely disastrous. So Western nations, I mean I think every Western nation through central bank or their Fed chair or whatever it is or. I just interviewed Prime Minister Carney. He was the first non Brit to be the head of the bank of England.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, he was. He's the big.

[Scott Galloway]

They, they all, almost from all political persuasions all agree that if we subject these people to political pressure, it's not, it could be disastrous for the economy because these people have to look at the data and make very important decisions about interest rates that affect currency flows of capital and the temptation to just put pressure on the Fed chair and say lower interest rates. I need a sugar high right now. I need the markets to go back up, whatever it is. And then you might end up with crazy inflation or stagflation. So the independence, I think it's gonna back down because just the same way he blinked last week when he saw the 10 year spike, 50 basis points. I think someone will say, you do this, hold on tight when the market opens tomorrow at 9am So I don't even think it's. I think they've decided the courts will side with them. Who cares? We get a court order to turn around a plane, we get a court order to bring someone back. And we want to claim we can bring Katy Perry back from space, but we can't bring a person we sent incorrectly to these El Salvadoran prisons. By the way, they brought people back initially they brought back women and some Venezuelans. But I don't think, I think the thing that stops them from doing that right now. Chairman Powell is probably the most respected appointed. He's the most respected person in the Trump administration right now. If you could call him part of the administration accidentally.

[Kara Swisher]

Sure. But let me what is Powell's termination cannot come fast enough because his job terminates next May. So is he meaning that. What is the language here? Termination?

[Scott Galloway]

I don't know. He's threatening to fire him. I don't know what it is. I don't know. You tell me.

[Kara Swisher]

That's the problem. I mean saying things like this by the way, are so dangerous just saying them. What he's doing is so ridiculous.

[Scott Galloway]

Brand toxic uncertainty.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah. And like I think that's exactly the term. That's correct. I think Powell is really just like fuck you. Like come at me, sir.

[Scott Galloway]

Essentially the way he's talking, Chairman Powell is, is literally he's going to leave. He's going to leave his tenure as someone who pulled us back from COVID who, whose economic policies the markets set new unprecedented highs. Some people would probably criticize that.

[Kara Swisher]

Little too much partying.

[Scott Galloway]

Well, or a little too much, I would say policies, although you could argue doesn't control this. The reason we're in such a crazy corner right now is because we as Americans, and this is true to Democratic and Republican administrations, are under the delusion that we can spend $7 trillion a year while taking in 5 trillion in tax receipts and that everything will be all right. And then we get back into a corner where the whole world owns our debt and they not only are reciprocating with the trade war, they're reciprocating with the capital war. And that is they just go into the market and sell a disproportionate number of our treasury bills and the 10 year spikes. And all of a sudden we have an additional $175 billion in interest rate payments, which we weren't planning on making. I mean, we have put ourselves in such a vulnerable position because if you think of the US as a household, we make 50,000 a year in tax receipts, we're spending 70, and we have credit card debt of 370,000. And the scary thing is the kids, despite not spending any of this money or really benefiting from it, are going to inherit those credit card bills. And everyone has power over us now. We no longer really own our home. So this is if you. Anyways, back to Chairman Powell. He probably can't wait for his termination because guess what, he's going to go be chairman of like Bridgewater.

[Kara Swisher]

No, I don't. I think he is. I think he's taking his. Listening to him. I think he's taking his job rather seriously. I think he's the bulwark against this critic. You know, agree.

[Scott Galloway]

And he came out. He's one of the few people, he's really the first kind of what I'll call leader to just, in a thoughtful, methodical way, just stand up and say, okay. Just in case you didn't believe every point of light from every economist or anyone who doesn't have their head up their ass and is trying to contort themselves into figuring out some way to justify this. The interpretive dance taking place across podcasters and officials trying to support these tariffs is almost. It's literally hilarious. It is like modern art. That doesn't make any fucking sense. Right?

[Kara Swisher]

I don't. For what and for what? Because, you know, I always, I was thinking as I was walking the other day, like, especially listening to that idiot Pam Bondi was. It's like, you know, if the Democrats win in two years, you're all super fucked. Like, super fucked. You have to win in two years. And of course they think they will through strong arming, but if they. What a risk they're taking because they're gonna be investigated out the yingity yang and deservedly so. Anyway, let's move on. Go, Jerome Powell. We're on your side. We think you're behaving correctly. Trump's feud with Harvard is escalating. The White House is asking the IRS to begin the process of revoking Harvard's tax exempt status. This is not an easy thing to do, by the way, but the irs, because it's under the control of Donald Trump, is reportedly considering it. The move comes after Harvard declined Trump's demands to scrap DEI programs and overall hiring, teaching, admissions. It made a ton of changes, by the way. It has made a ton of changes that are probably laudable in many ways. Trump's initial response to Harvard's pushback was freezing more than $2 billion in federal funds for multi year grants and contracts apparently wasn't enough. The Harvard president, Alan Garber, condemned the Trump administration in an open letter earlier week, writing, no government, regardless of which party is in power, should dictate what private universities can teach, whom they can admit and hire, and which areas of study and inquiry they can pursue. What do you think the Harvard fighting back here is really interesting. Let me give some statistics. Harvard is gearing up for this fight financially. They issued $750 million of taxable bonds last week to shore up liquidity. It does have a $53 billion endowment, but there are restrictions on how the money gets spent. I see you're wearing a Harvard T shirt. I can't believe one of the jokes on threads was, I can't believe we like Harvard again. Like, we're backing Harvard here, which is sort of the pinnacle of snooty elitism, I think, for most people in general. But at the same time, this is a real shot across, along with mit, Princeton, Columbia, of course, caved, so it's a really interesting situation happening here with these schools saying, no, fuck, we've done enough, and showing their work. Now today, for people who don't know, the Trump administration is trying to do this with no proof whatsoever. Very similar to what they did with the migrants who they sent out of the country with no proof on any. They don't give any proof to their allegations on almost anything they're doing, no matter what, across the spectrum. And in this case, they filed something without any proof that Harvard did anything wrong. So there's several. And of course they're hurting funding of really important research that's going on. Scott.

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah, it took Donald Trump to get me to like Harvard.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, That T shirt is handsome. Where'd you get that?

[Scott Galloway]

My assistant got it for me because, I don't know, I just wanted a Harvard T shirt to wear around. I was strolling around in a Canada T shirt last week and it was the like. If you look at the darkest moment of the last 100 years, there was some key attributes of a move to fascism. One, they start demonizing people and rounding them up and it takes on a different complexion. But let's be clear. We have demonized illegal immigrants, of which we have turned a blind eye to because it's very profitable. And now we're rounding them up, we're taking them off the street and we're sending them to hellscapes. One of the other key steps is you come for, quote, unquote, the academic institutions and the cultural elite and you demonize them. And that's what's going on here. So this is, you know, I'm not a fan of these institutions. I've even suggested their tax free status be revoked if they have an endowment over a billion dollars. Not growing their freshman class faster.

[Kara Swisher]

But you're about making bigger, becoming bigger. Not to tell them what to do or how to run their.

[Scott Galloway]

No, I don't, I don't care. They have the right to pick their curriculum. They have the right to pick their faculty. They have the right to talk about what they want to talk about on campus. I think if you're going to have a law. And be clear, folks, this has about as much to do with antisemitism as evangelicals liking Israel. They just see these, the notion of anti, putting this under the banner of antisemitism. They're just using it as a vessel to go after an ideology and centers that typically, traditionally and right now are not supportive of these types of policies. And there is. Is it true that there's not enough intellectual diversity at these campuses? Sure. But when you start targeting individual universities and going after, quote, unquote, the cultural elite under the auspices of antisemitism, it's just, it's not, A, it's not true, and B, it's morally corrupt. But more. I'll just go to the economic argument. The funding of research at universities has been the greatest investment in history. And that is, and I've said this before, that the most successful venture capitalists in history are middle class taxpayers who give money to the government and then the government funds research. The private enterprise can't afford to make these types of staggers. Tuberculosis, for example, or a catalog listing all things on the Internet for academic research. It ultimately ends up becoming a $2 trillion company called Google or vaccines. Looking at how MRNA might be more effective than traditional vaccines or diabetes medication, most studies show. And then the vessel for this unbelievable investment are universities. Government funding of university research has proven to be one of the highest ROI public investments with economic impact studies suggesting returns of. Get this, kara. Somewhere between 20 at the low end, 20% and 60% annually on federal research dollars through job creation, new industries and increased productivity and agriculture, genetically modified crops, food safety technologies and energy. Solar panels technology, advanced battery companies.

[Kara Swisher]

You have your researchers going all week. This is fantastic.

[Scott Galloway]

Natural. Natural gas tracking, LED lighting, advanced materials. Moderna and Biontech. Hundreds of drugs, including Lyrica Remisate, I think it's called. We did that. The HIV protease inhibitors, the cocktail drugs came out of universities. Genentech was based on recombinant DNA technology from UCSF and Stanford. Google smartphones, Cisco systems. I mean these. This is the best. The US does actually a small number of things better than anyone, but we do them really, really well.

[Kara Swisher]

And people think it's not enough because like they haven't been as involved in AI and it's been taken up by. What happens is private enterprise takes the juicy bits and the parts that are harder. The universities used to do and they used to do.

[Scott Galloway]

You know what else? Have fun. That sometimes end up being unbelievable. Lithium ion batteries.

[Kara Swisher]

You don't have to make. This is fucking ridiculous. And here it is. Why do you think Harvard decided and fuck this shit. And Columbia didn't like think about being inside these places.

[Scott Galloway]

Columbia has literally has just this. A virus of a lack of leadership right now I would argue that Columbia, between the response. I mean there were two campuses with protests. President Linda Mills just handled it much differently than the folks at Columbia. And I also think Columbia, quite frankly, for whatever reason has been a flashpoint and has been unfortunately targeted, whatever you want to call it. But I do think the reason that Harvard decided to stand up, I think they have more leadership, I think they have more moral clarity. And quite frankly it just really helps to have $54 billion endowment. It's just this is they can afford to do this. So. And it's also great. It's great for their brand. Harvard probably this is probably one of the better brand moves of 2025.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah. Because they were sort of the like elite irritants and now they seem like freedom fighters.

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah. And the president of Harvard unable to condemn anti, you know, anti Semitic speech is hate speech or whatever it is. You know, they. And they've had their hits the last six months. This is absolutely them standing up and doing the right thing, even when it's hard.

[Kara Swisher]

So we'll see if the IRS will. If the IRS does this, it takes years. This is gonna go, by the way, everybody, again, it's gonna go through lots of courts with the irs. They're gonna try to do this. It will be litigated. And by that time, if Donald Trump is lost, the people who are doing this to Harvard, the irs, are going to be fucked royally at some point if they make these moves. They think that Donald Trump's gonna be in power forever. And that may be, but if he's not, you're taking a rather large risk that you're not. All of you aren't going to jail at some point for these behaviors.

[Scott Galloway]

What you're saying is so important. And I've been talking to a lot of Democrats. I was on Governor Newsom's podcast yesterday, and I think once, something that's missing from the Democratic Party, I don't believe that like this. We go. When they go low, we go high. I think that's just like trying to capture social status. I absolutely think we need to get in the mud. And I think there needs to be a Democrat who basically says, I'm running for president, I'm going to win. And when I win, I am absolutely targeting. I'm going to have the SEC look into all trading on April 9th. I'm going to look at all illegal deportations. I'm going to look at the unlawful seizure of constitutional power. It's going to be done to the letter of the law. But be clear, be clear, folks. If you're breaking laws and you're under the impression you're no longer subject to the law, that might be true for the next 44 months. But in 44 months, the law is coming back. The sheriff is coming back in two.

[Kara Swisher]

Years if the Democrats win. This is just.

[Scott Galloway]

I like that even more in 20.

[Kara Swisher]

Months, let me say, it also doesn't help people. It doesn't bring the price of eggs down. This is what we're doing, this tit for tat. And by the way, this tit for tat is gonna be required. They have to go down, and it's gonna waste everybody's time, what they're doing here. They're gonna do this, they're gonna lose, and then they're going to jail. But it's just such a waste of time and effort. And Harvard could be doing all kinds of really interesting things in research. And anyway, it's the greatest brand change for Harvard. You're right. I think that's really an important thing. And we'll see if Donald Trump could pull this off. Just because he's going through stop signs right now doesn't mean he can keep doing it or there will not be consequences later. Okay, let's go on a quick break. When we come back, new details about Elon's creepy harem and legions of babies.

[Scott Galloway]

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[Kara Swisher]

Support for this show comes from Nordstrom. Nordstrom brings you the season's most wanted brands, Skims, Mango Free People and Princess polly, all under $100. From trending Sneakers to beauty must haves, they've curated the styles you'll wear on repeat this spring. Free shipping, free returns and in store pickup make it easier than ever. Shop now in stores [e-mail] Scott we're back and Elon Musk is trying to build an army of super babies with Quote, no romance, just. It feels like you would have said something like this, Scott. That's from an explosive report in the Wall Street Journal about the tactics he used to recruit and manage his offspring and their mothers. This romantic hero has even used social platform X to recruit willing wombs. Here's what Jimmy Kimmel had to say about the latest revelations.

[Scott Galloway]

It is believed that Elon has fathered at least 14 children, and based on this photograph, he may have given birth to them too. He's happy carrying a few around in his pouch like a kangaroo. Sources told the Journal they believe there could be more mini musks out there. Many more mini musk. You've heard of alien versus predator. Elon might be both.

[Kara Swisher]

So another tip is from the Journal's reporting. And by the way, I've spoken about this with so many reporters. I'm so glad that they're finally writing about this and not pretending it's just a silly. An ex who's mad at him. This is really significantly weird stuff. And especially since he's in such a position of power. Musk believes population decline is massive threat and wants to make enough babies to, quote, reach Legion level before the apocalypse. And Musk urged former girlfriend Ashley St. Clair. I don't know what she is, I guess girlfriend. To give birth via C section because he believes that vaginal births limit brain size. You remember I was arguing with him about this, given I had a C section. Scott, where shall we go with this? Where shall we go? Where should we start? I mean, I'm thrilled that reporters are actually doing these things around the drugs, around these weirdnesses around children. It is really demented in a way that's really around the bend. And it's fine if someone wants to have a lot of kids. But this is a whole theory. I think the one person in this story that didn't get enough shit is Jared Birchall, who works for him and is his facilitator. He happens. They wrote about him being a Mormon and he's talking about him having such a stable family. Jared, if you're facilitating this, you don't get to hide behind your perfect family and your. You know that you don't behave like this. You're just facilitating a rich person behaving badly and manipulating women who are having kids. I mean, everything sounds so pathetic. And at the very. And then I'll let you go on, Scott. But the children are really. What really concerns me here is that these kids are getting manipulated by Musk in terms of what they're gonna pay the mothers and this and that you don't need $15 million to do to raise a kid or anything. But the ethical implications of all of this for all of you who are facilitating this for musk are rather deep and you should be ashamed of yourselves. Go ahead, Scott.

[Scott Galloway]

Look, there's a kernel of truth here just calling balls and strikes. There was this fear or this moral panic around a population explosion that we were going to absorb that our population was growing faster than the earth's resources and it was going to collapse under population growth. What's actually happened is that bomb has detonated, but it's imploded. And that is Western nations, as they become wealthier, more educated women decide having a lot of kids is a bad deal for them and also men. And basically birth rates go down. And evidence has shown that as population has gone up, poverty has gone down, it ends up that if you put 10 new brains into society, one is a problem, eight do just fine, and one might solve more problems than those 10 brains create. So population growth is actually really, it's a huge problem in Japan, in South Korea, supposedly like only three or four people will have grandkids right now with these birth rates. Now you can solve it with thoughtful immigration policies and also restoring a tax code that doesn't rob from the young and give money to the old, such that young people should they decide to have kids, which 60% did 40 years ago at the age of 30, now it's 27%. So we can solve for this problem. I do believe that his basic theory is rooted in something that's true, like having more kids. Now having said that, having said that, if you look at what I believe maybe next, income inequality is the biggest thing threatening the US it's extremism led by a group of young men who feel are sequestering from society and becoming shitty citizens. They're not attaching to work, they're not attaching to school, they're not attaching to relationships. They become prone to misogynistic content. They start blaming women and immigrants for their problems. They become less likely to believe in climate change. And if they don't have a relationship or work by the time they're 30, the levels of substance abuse and self harm just go crazy. Just go crazy. That is a huge struggling young men in this country is a huge threat to our society.

[Kara Swisher]

Wrote a book about it out in November.

[Scott Galloway]

There you go. Now if you were to reverse engineer it to the point of failure, where a boy with a lot of potential comes off the tracks, you might Say, well, their prefrontal cortex doesn't mature as quickly. Well, the education system is biased against them. They're twice as likely to be suspended on a behavior adjusted. There's a lot of things they've been told for 40 years that they're the oppressor and they're starting to believe it. They have big tech trying to sequester them from society with gambling and porn. They have a lot of things going against them. But the number one point of failure to be reverse engineered to is when they lose a male role model. The worst thing or one of the worst things you can do as a man, or let me put it this way, the best thing you can do is to stay involved in your kid's life. He's not around. And what's interesting is that when you have a single parent household, which he's creating 14 single parent households, he doesn't have 14 kids. He has 14 single parent households.

[Kara Swisher]

More kids than that, I think.

[Scott Galloway]

And what's interesting is that the daughters in single parent households have similar outcomes as dual parent households. And I'm not saying girls don't need their dad, but if you look at high school and college attendance and rates of self harm, they're not materially different in single parent households. And dual. It is an entirely different story for boys. And what it ends up is that while boys are physically stronger, they're mentally and emotionally much weaker. But him creating a series, a cadre of children that don't have their dad around even if he sends checks, that is bad for society.

[Kara Swisher]

But he also, Scott, two things. He uses checks as the control point, by the way. And secondly, listen, there's a pronatalist movement going on obviously. And he's part of this. He's talking about smarter people. And that reads to me white people essentially. Right. I don't think he thinks all people are equal. Equal.

[Scott Galloway]

Well, it's almost as if you'd give a Nazi salute, right?

[Kara Swisher]

Yes, exactly. Who knows?

[Scott Galloway]

Or that his dad started banging his stepdaughter.

[Kara Swisher]

I mean level of this. His stepdaughter, I think. Yeah, correct. But here's the thing. It's about white people. More white people that is, or more people he considers smart, which is, I think the.

[Scott Galloway]

I thought of that. Is he only procreating with other, with other white women.

[Kara Swisher]

I guess that he did try. He is someone he didn't know online named Tiffany Fong, I believe so she's Asian. But here's the thing. He thinks his genes are smart. So who isn't smart? Where there are population increases, brown people. That is what he is doing here. So I agree. Listen, nobody believes in kids more than me. I'm not the Elon Musk of legends.

[Scott Galloway]

But you're openly lesbian, Kathryn. You're openly lesbian. At least you could be a closeted. At least you could drive your Subaru with blackout windows.

[Kara Swisher]

Stop being so. So openly straight and masturbating at all times.

[Scott Galloway]

At least you could hide that German shepherd.

[Kara Swisher]

Anyway, nonetheless, he thinks there are smart people and dumb people, and all the smart people are not. You know, that's. This has a racial element to it. Let's be clear.

[Scott Galloway]

Let me ask you this. Is it true that on all dates with lesbians they hug for three hours, cry, and then decide never to see each other again? Is that true?

[Kara Swisher]

No.

[Scott Galloway]

Is that true? No.

[Kara Swisher]

Okay, you know what? Be in mind. You're coming to Lesbian Zoo Tech this year, and we're going to.

[Scott Galloway]

I went three years ago.

[Kara Swisher]

We're doing it again. And this year we're going to kill you and do a really.

[Scott Galloway]

I took my shirt off. And the whole audience was like, yeah, I made the right choice. Literally every woman in the crowd's like, I did make the right choice. Made me let my shirt off. I was the second straight guy to ever be on the stage. First was Marc Benioff.

[Kara Swisher]

Anyway, Elon, you are a sick puppy, I have to tell you. One sick puppy. And I feel bad for these women. I feel bad for these kids. And the story was terrific. That the Journal's doing it is amazing. I have to say. I told, oh, a half a dozen top reporters about this Ashley St. Clair to like, this was really weird what was happening, and nobody followed it. And the Journal did a really good job. I have to say. I have to give them credit. It is not prurient. It's a really. Along with their board coverage of how they party with him, along with his strange behaviors. I think the Journal's doing amazing journalism here, as is Kristin Grind of the New York Times, who was previously.

[Scott Galloway]

I think it's important, though, that we bring this back to me.

[Kara Swisher]

Okay. All right.

[Scott Galloway]

So I have more kids, likely substantially more kids than Elon Musk. You know why?

[Kara Swisher]

Oh, right. Because you gave. We know this. We know. We've talked about this. Sperm donor.

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah, I could get 40 bucks a shot because I was a quote unquote athlete@ UCLA. Anyways, I got called back four times a week for a full year, and I couldn't figure it out because the two guys I went with were the two Guys I went with were literally blonde gods. They were. They were water polar players that went to the Olympics. They were smarter than me. These guys were specimens Jewish.

[Kara Swisher]

You've said this dream.

[Scott Galloway]

That's right. And I said, why do I have the golden seed here? And they said, you have the two things.

[Kara Swisher]

Did you just say golden seed?

[Scott Galloway]

Anyway. Baby. My man gravy is like. Literally. It's like Nvidia chips. The reason why my sperm was literally an Hermes bag. I was the Hermes of sperm. Was two things. What are the two things that people in West LA parents want in their sperm?

[Kara Swisher]

Tall Jewish babies.

[Scott Galloway]

Tall and Jewish. I had the peanut butter and chocolate. A sperm donation.

[Kara Swisher]

There are Scott Galloways all over.

[Scott Galloway]

Can you imagine how many receding hairlines there have to.

[Kara Swisher]

I don't even want to know. I don't even want to know. I don't even want to know. Thank God. Not my children. Anyway.

[Scott Galloway]

Here's the angry, depressed people. They didn't test me for that shit.

[Kara Swisher]

All right? You know, I didn't pick someone because he had a history of depression in his family. Anyway.

[Scott Galloway]

Here's a good idea.

[Kara Swisher]

There's some hot new real estate about 120 light years from Earth. Where Elon could go. Researchers announced on Tuesday that they've discovered a map massive planet known as K2.18B. I'm going to call it Galloway. Thank you. Whose atmosphere suggests the possible presence of living organisms. It's really hot and wet. That's really pretty much what's happening.

[Scott Galloway]

Don't say anything. Don't say anything.

[Kara Swisher]

I don't say anything. Anyway. Just really quickly. Nvidia says it will start producing AI supercomputers manufactured entirely in the U.S. the announcement comes conveniently after reports of upcoming tariffs. We'll see. The company plans to produce $500 billion of infrastructure in the US via manufacturing partners over the next year. They all say 500 billion. Apple this. They've commissioned over 1 million square feet of manufacturing space to build ships in Arizona. They're working with Foxconn and Taiwan's Wistran on additional plants in Texas. Of course. And then Trump said all the necessary permits will be expedited and delivered. They're trying to appease Trump or I'm sure he'll still screw them on tariffs. Jensen Huang said made a surprise visit to Beijing to meet with Chinese trade officials as follows. Nvidia is revealing on Wednesday it's taking a $5.5 billion hit thanks to new US restrictions on the export to of its H20 chips to China. The shares have been plunging very quickly. Thoughts on the Planet or Nvidia?

[Scott Galloway]

Nothing other than all of this stuff. Announcing investment is performative thinking he's an idiot. If we just repackage existing investments, he'll go for it and it'll potentially leave us alone. And the stocks are now trading based on the prediction markets of the mad King. I mean, this is just not the way to run an economy.

[Kara Swisher]

And they weren't going to do this before. And you know, just this, you know, you can force manufacturing back in the US but it will have a price later if it's not economic. That's just the way it goes, unfortunately. All right, Scott, let's go on a quick break. When we come back, we'll talk about Zuck taking the stand and how much he was willing to pay to get the antitrust case to go away.

[Scott Galloway]

Fox Creative.

[Kara Swisher]

This is advertiser content from Verizon Business.

[Scott Galloway]

Hey, Vinny, you know, the draft isn't.

[Kara Swisher]

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[Scott Galloway]

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[Kara Swisher]

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[Scott Galloway]

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[Kara Swisher]

Because just, just like in the draft, having the right team makes all the difference.

[Scott Galloway]

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[Kara Swisher]

Verizon Small business days are coming soon from April 21st to the 27th. Call 1-800-483-4428 or visit verizon.comsmallbusiness for more info. What are you waiting? Hi, folks, this is Kara Swisher. This week on my podcast on with Kara Swisher, I'm speaking with philanthropist, businesswoman and women's rights advocate Melinda French Gates on how she's refocused after her divorce from tech mogul Bill Gates. We talk about why investing in women in politics and business is playing the long and smart game, and we discuss her new memoir the next day. My mom used to say to me as I was growing up, set your own agenda or someone else will. I know society is better off when women are in positions of power. I really enjoy this conversation because it's an interesting moment where women in technology are having much more of an important impact than men who are still moving fast and breaking things. Have a listen to on with Kara Swisher wherever you get your podcasts.

[Scott Galloway]

We borrow money from Chinese peasants to buy the things those Chinese peasants manufacture. That is not a recipe for economic prosperity.

[Kara Swisher]

Vice President J.D. vance defending the Trump administration's tariffs on China hit China squarely below the belt and China hit back with memes. Cue music. Americans on assembly lines at sewing machines, in fields, eating chips, drinking Coke, looking ill prepared for factory work, to put it politely, which the memes are not. China's argument since this trade war began is that America, America cannot win it. China is tougher, more resilient and better prepared. On Today explained as this trade war escalates, we ask what if that's true? Today explained every weekday. Scott we're back with more headlines. There's lots going on. Mark Zuckerberg has taken the witness stand for three days in Meta's antitrust trial this week over its acquisition of Instagram and WhatsApp. Also, Sheryl Sandberg was also on the stand. If the FTC wins, Meta could be forced to sell off the app. Some highlights years before the FTT sued Meta under the Trump administration, Zuckerberg considered having Instagram be its own company to avoid antitrust issues. Meta tried to buy Snapchat for 6 billion which actually I think I broke that story at the time. He thinks it would have been bigger now if it accepted the offer. Zuckerberg of course it then copied Snap everything Snapchat did. It's buyer Barry really. And Barry was the choice that unfortunately Snapchat had to face. Zuckerberg once had a crazy idea to wipe out all Facebook users friends to start again. The Meta CEO called TikTok the highest competitive threat for Facebook and Meta. If it were up to Zuckerberg, this trial never would have happened. He offered the FTC $450 million, which is laughable, later upping the amount to 1 billion. But the offer was well below the 30 billion the FTC wanted. This is its current chair, Andrew Ferguson. You gotta set there Ferguson. Zuckerberg reportedly felt confident President Trump would back him. Obviously he didn't and allowed it to go forward. It's not the strongest cases that we've talked about and this idea of who its competitor is in the then it's a strong case in the now it's not as strong a case and everybody has shifted from social media to entertainment in a lot of ways. Social media media with a stress on media, not on social. So give me is there this ass kissing doesn't work. Give me One of your crazy ideas, Scott, here on this trial.

[Scott Galloway]

So there's different remedies. One is a fine, which it looks like they're pursuing right now. If they're found guilty of monopolistic behavior.

[Kara Swisher]

And certain consent decrees also along with.

[Scott Galloway]

The fine, by the way, nine out of 10 people in the world outside of China are on a Meta app. If not, I think it's either every day or every week. And they have 70% share of social media. Now, that alone isn't illegal. What's illegal is if you're using that 70% share to deploy monopoly pricing, that's bad for consumers. And I would argue or engage in anti competitive behavior. And if you look at the notes that have come out in discovery, a big justification for acquiring Instagram is they said we need to neutralize a competitor. That right there, that statement that's illegal, that you're not allowed to acquire a company to neutralize a competitor. You're not allowed to do Aqua Kills. In addition, what I always like to appeal to people's green glands on this. If they were forced as a remedy to spin Instagram, you know who wins? WhatsApp.

[Kara Swisher]

And WhatsApp too.

[Scott Galloway]

And WhatsApp, you know who wins here? Shareholders. Because the company right now it trades at a really healthy multiple of 7.7x times revenues. Instagram on its own, I think would trade at 15 to 20 times revenues. Instagram, just to give you. You were at my birthday in Scotland. Scotland is overrun because a bunch of Instagrammers went there and went crazy talking about Scotland two summers ago. And at the same summer a bunch of Instagrammers were highlighting that a drink in mykonos was now 30 bucks and travel was off 30% last summer. Instagram now dictates global tourism patterns.

[Kara Swisher]

You see it happen in Los Angeles and parts of your neighborhood. People take a picture in front of.

[Scott Galloway]

Oh, if we went to my window right now, we would see three or four Asian women with their Hermes bags on my cobblestone street taking pictures of one another. It is literally.

[Kara Swisher]

There's one area where they're all taking pictures.

[Scott Galloway]

You talk about commerce, you talk about, I mean that Instagram is an independent company. Everyone would want to own that stock. So shareholders would do better.

[Kara Swisher]

I would buy that stock.

[Scott Galloway]

In addition, the competition here with lower rents, and specifically I've argued that the rents that have gone up here are the biggest rent increase has been non economic. Think about the rents that parents have had to pay because of the monopoly control of Meta. So the fact that they wouldn't Compete and coordinate with core Facebook. The fact that WhatsApp would probably be the largest telco in the world. And rather than being a vessel for finding data for better targeting for the core platform, Facebook or Instagram, they would have to figure out a way just to be the largest telco and start charging money. I think, Cheryl, if they announced they were breaking up these companies, I would buy Meta stock because I think that ultimately shareholders would win more tax revenue, by the way, employees win because there's more companies trying to rent your labor. Employees win tax revenue, shareholders win. The only person that doesn't win is the person who wants to sit on the iron throne of all seven realms, not just Westeros. But I've always thought the two best things you could do to oxygenate the global economy are if China and the US kissed and made up. We have ip, they have manufacturing. Enough already. Let's lower everyone's costs by getting along again. And obviously President Trump does not get that. And then the second biggest way to oxygenate and unleash the global economy would be to take Amazon, Apple, Facebook and Meta and go from four companies to 15. It would create. It would unleash so much competition and innovation and innovation.

[Kara Swisher]

New things. Innovation, innovation. That's the thing everyone's going on about Tesla, I'm like, they're car sucks and it's not innovative. Did you see the Japanese stuff that's coming out? The EVs? They're so adorable and fantastic. I just keep thinking why didn't any. Why didn't Tesla do this? Like why didn't. They had the. Anyway, well, that's another. Because he's having lesions of babies and taking ketamine apparently and running the government into the ground. But you're right. You're absolutely right. We'll see what happens. People find this to be a very weak case though, because the limits of who they're. It doesn't. He doesn't address what's happening now, which is intense competition in the social media space. Again, as I said, emphasis on media. He's trying to get away from the social part of it, by the way, which is really interesting because people aren't doing what Facebook was originally intended for anymore. Now they're consuming just like they did television. There has been a shift, don't you think? Don't you find you're using social media for consumption more than than declaration or friendship now?

[Scott Galloway]

I gotta be honest, I'm addicted to both Instagram and to TikTok and I consumption.

[Kara Swisher]

You like looking at it, right?

[Scott Galloway]

Well, Honestly, it's now my news source. I get really good. TikTok has figured out, I want to see an economist talking about interest rates or a woman talking about social issues that forgot to put her bra on. Those are the two. That's how my feed. That's how my feed is.

[Kara Swisher]

What about if it was economists putting his bra on?

[Scott Galloway]

And then that's good. That's good.

[Kara Swisher]

He's drawn.

[Scott Galloway]

Or chiropractors aggressively adjusting people or.

[Kara Swisher]

I love that.

[Scott Galloway]

It's amazing. Like, oh, my God, she has neck pain. Oh, my God, what is he gonna do? And then all of a sudden you hear celery and she's like, I can walk again. I can walk again.

[Kara Swisher]

I love that. Oh, my God.

[Scott Galloway]

And I see Great Danes. They like, they have figured out, I love Great Danes. I could watch Great Danes all day. And my favorite also, have you seen the new ones where some chef will take like a $300 Chateaubriand and line up three dogs at a table and then show them the Chateaubriand. And then literally, the chef will cook it in front of them and get in front of them and then slice it for them and create some amazing sauce. And then just feed these three pit bulls this amazing sauce.

[Kara Swisher]

Oh, my God. That's end times. That's worse than guillotine.

[Scott Galloway]

Maybe it's late stage capitalism, but it sure is entertaining.

[Kara Swisher]

Oh, wow.

[Scott Galloway]

Oh, my gosh.

[Kara Swisher]

I watch it. I do on threads a thing called Food por love, which is they just cook shit all over the place. I love cooking videos. Anyway, we got to get back to the important things. I'm not sure where this case is going, but it sure has a lot of cool emails of them acting like assholes. All of them like, we're going to kill this company. We're going to do this. This is exactly how they talk in reality. And it's just very entertaining. But one of the things that's coming out of it is how much Mark Zuckerberg doesn't like his actual business. The social part of social media. That's been really interesting to me.

[Scott Galloway]

There was was a big announcement this week. I think the biggest story that people haven't been talking about is OpenAI deciding they might get into social.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, we're going to talk about that next week because we'll see. I think there's just tweaking. They love to tweak everyone. But, yes, they could do that too. Again, Consumption. Consumption of videos. That's where they're going to go in the creation and the creativity of people with this Stuff. This is just in. By the way, a federal judge has ruled that Google did act illegally to maintain a monopoly in online advertising technology. The judge said in a ruling that Google had broken the law to build its dominance. No shit, Sherlock. The Justice Department and a group of states had sued Google, arguing that its monopoly in ad technology allowed the company to charge higher prices and take a bigger portion of the sale. Yes, because they're on both sides of the deal. Everybody remember a federal judge ruled in August, a separate federal judge, that the company had a monopoly in online search. He is now considering requests by the Justice Department to break the company up, spin parts off Google's. This is a much stronger case and it is so obvious the dominance of Google in both advertising and search and their behaviors around this. It's really interesting. Of course, Sundar was at the inauguration. It doesn't seem to be helping. Now, a lot of these cases were started in the previous Trump administration. Again, I cannot underscore this. So thoughts on this one? This one's stronger and they've lost. They've clearly lost. This will go on. They will appeal, but they've lost again.

[Scott Galloway]

Once again, like I said, I think everybody wins if these companies start to. I think their share price goes up. I don't know what to say other than that. Although I was more cynical about antitrust under a Trump administration. And Jonathan Kanter, who knows a lot more about this than me, sent me straight and said, you're underestimating some of the people who are at justice in the ftc.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah. The person who replaced him is very well. Gail, I think it's Slaughter or Slater is very well respected. She's a JD Vance person from the JD Zantz side of the aisle who has been very anti. Antitrust focused. Great respect for people like in terms of. They understand. Here's the thing, everybody, less competition, less innovation, higher prices, shittier products. That's the way it goes. And the fact that these companies. And by the way, the side effects of both these companies for their dominance in both social media and advertising and search, which is linked to. They're all linked to advertising, is the death of regular media. Two of these two companies have run over. Now, look, media old media has done a lot of things to kill itself, but this is not. The hollowing out of the business model by these companies. Using these tactics has been right in there to really hurt these companies. So that's another deleterious effect of these things. Anyway, we'll be right back and we'll get to predictions. This episode is brought to you by Lifelock. It's tax season and we're all a bit tired of numbers, but here's one you need to hear. $16.5 billion. That's how much the IRS flagged for possible identity fraud last year. Now here's a good number. 100 million. That's how many data points Lifelock monitors every second. If your identity is stolen, they'll fix it. Guaranteed. Save up to 40% your first [e-mail] podcast terms apply. How do you navigate an entire career.

[Scott Galloway]

Change after losing everything? This week on Net Worth and Chill, I'm chatting with Lewis Howes, the of.

[Kara Swisher]

The School of Greatness podcast.

[Scott Galloway]

With over 500 million downloads, Lewis went from rising professional athlete to broke after a career ending injury. I believe self doubt is the killer of dreams. When we doubt ourselves, we are. It doesn't matter how talented or smart you are, you're going to limit yourself.

[Kara Swisher]

In what you're able to do.

[Scott Galloway]

But that was just the beginning of his story. It's an episode packed with raw honesty and failure, practical advice for career pivots, and the financial wisdom that comes from losing it all and rebuilding it.

[Kara Swisher]

Listen wherever you get your podcasts or.

[Scott Galloway]

Watch on YouTube.com YourRichBFF the regular season is in the review and now it's time for the games that matter the most. This is Kenny Beachum and playoff basketball is finally here on Small Ball. We're diving deep into every series, every crunch time finish, every coaching adjustment that can make or break a championship run? Who's building for a 16 win marathon? Which superstar would submit their last legacy? In which role player is about to become a household name? With so many fascinating first round matchups, will the west be the bloodbath we anticipate? Will the east be as predictable as we think? Can the Celtics defend their title? Can Steph Curry, LeBron James, Kawhi Leonard push the young teams at the top? I'll be bringing the expertise, the passion, the genuine opinion you need for the most exciting time of the NBA calendar. Small Ball is your essential companion for the NBA part postseason. Join me Kenny Beam for new episodes of Small Ball throughout the playoffs. Don't miss Small Ball with Kenny Beacham. New episodes dropping through the playoffs. Available on YouTube and wherever you get your podcast.

[Kara Swisher]

Okay Scott, let's hear a prediction. What's a prediction from you besides children of Scott all over Southern California? Are you creating a legion of babies?

[Scott Galloway]

Well, you know you create can. There's now a website if you go to it, you can Type in your name and say, this is the clinic I donated.

[Kara Swisher]

Yes, I know all about it.

[Scott Galloway]

And they send you a certified think certified mail. And if you sign it, an email goes out to all your biological children saying, this is your biological father. I would do it if you could gate it and you can't. The problem is you don't know if.

[Kara Swisher]

It'S hopefully going to do this now so I can meet all of Scott's children.

[Scott Galloway]

Well, that's why I don't do 23andMe because people get figured out. But I don't know if I have two kids or 2,000 because it wasn't regulated before.

[Kara Swisher]

Back then you have like hundreds of kids. You remember the Vince Fawn movie where he had.

[Scott Galloway]

I'm told you that my mom made me stop because she said, she said I put my. I'm not exaggerating. I paid for my junior year at UCLA doing this. And, and my mom said, you need to stop. And her rationale was, what if your son ends up marrying your daughter?

[Kara Swisher]

Oh my God. That's the typical fear thing. The fear thing.

[Scott Galloway]

I know, but anyways, she had a real point. She's like, you're going to go up in LA and you're going to come and you're going to meet anyways. But it's, it's a weird, weird. It's a weird thought. I've thought about maybe like, I don't know, leaving him some money when I die or something like that.

[Kara Swisher]

But anyways, I, I know I've used those sites because I, I saw other. How many other kids my sons are related to.

[Scott Galloway]

Make for a fun party. Think about what an awesome party I would throw for 238 year olds that all sort of look like me. That would be a fun party, wouldn't it?

[Kara Swisher]

I feel like I want to go.

[Scott Galloway]

Find all your children and apologize and give them therapy.

[Kara Swisher]

I think they're a documentary. Searching for Scott.

[Scott Galloway]

Oh, let's start a podcast network.

[Kara Swisher]

Yes, let's start a Vox Media PODC with their children.

[Scott Galloway]

Why is. Oh my God, that's so fucked up.

[Kara Swisher]

I know, it's so fucked up, but I love it. Let's hear a prediction.

[Scott Galloway]

Anyway, Sorry.

[Kara Swisher]

I predict this would be disastrous and then they could marry all of Elon Musk's kids. Anyway, sorry, prediction.

[Scott Galloway]

I think my prediction is the following. Kara, I think the worm has turned. I think that my sense is that the things that have kept Republicans quiet because of their dear leader has more power in this cult that where he can vote them out of office. The fear factor of saying, I'll weaponize the DOJ against my enemies. Donald Trump, I'm not comparing him to Hitler, but Hitler's biggest mistake that reshaped the world was he decided to open a second front in the war and he declared war on Russia. We probably would have had to come to some sort of agreement with him where he got Europe and Britain, got the empire or whatever, but that is what kind of lost the war was in addition to British brains, Russian blood and American brawn, Russian blood, blood. They sacrificed 20 million people and they were allies at the beginning of the war. Trump has decided to fight everyone all at once. He's not going after targeted tariffs against China or figuring out if there's certain tariffs on dairy that are not reciprocal or asymmetric. He's not saying to the E.U. we need you to pay more for our NATO. But he's just declared war on everyone. One all at once. And it is literally the only. We had to ally with dozens of countries to get Hussein out of Kuwait. But this guy's under the impression he can declare war on everyone.

[Kara Swisher]

And it does feel like declare war on everyone, doesn't it?

[Scott Galloway]

Everyone all at once. Whether it's Harvard or Kazakhstan. He's just declared war on everyone. And they're gonna be very creative and strike back. They're just gonna be very creative and strike back anyways. I think the worm has turned. I think that so many, many public company CEOs who wake up in the morning and say, hello, Mr. President, that think that someday they're going to be drafted because of their incredible leadership skills to run for president. Let me save you three classes at a business school on ethics, leadership and sustainability. Ethics is like, think about what the right thing is. Leadership is do the right thing even when it's really hard. And sustainability is doing the right thing when it's really hard. You might actually make money there. You don't need to take those three classes you're about to see. I believe some very high profile business leaders and Republicans come out in the next week or two and say this is just bad and they're going to get a ton of attention. I can't think of a Fortune 500 CEO who has spoken out. I can't think of a Republican who has really taken a stand here. And the person I am reminded of is a guy named Martin Nemo. And he was essentially, he was a prominent Lutheran pastor in Germany in the 20s and early 30s. He simply came before me.

[Kara Swisher]

Right, that guy.

[Scott Galloway]

That's exactly right. Very well done. He sympathized with many Nazi ideas and supported radically right wing political movements. But after Hitler came to power in 33, Niemuller became an outspoken critic of Hitler's interference in the Protestant church. He spent the last eight years of Nazi rule in prisons and concentration camps. And Niemoller is perhaps best remembered for his post war statement which begins, first they came for the socialists and I did not speak out. And his full quote is, first they came for the socialists and I did not speak out because I was not a socialist. Then they came for the trade unionists and I did not speak out because I was not a trade unionist. Then they came for the Jews and I did not speak out because I was not a Jew. Then they came for me and there was no one left to speak for me. I mean, that is really powerful. And what I would argue, I have a lot of faith in America. Over the medium and the long term, we get it wrong in the short term, but over the medium and long term, we demonstrate tremendous generosity and leadership. And I think we're at a point where people realizing that, okay, a guy with the wrong tattoo who gets basically rounded up, a university or the cultural elite that are targeted under bullshit narratives of antisemitism coming after weaponizing the DOJ against your political enemies. I think the school is about to rise up against the bullies.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah. Although Scott, in the short term, like Chris Krebs had to leave his business has to his company because he got targeted by Trump. Oh.

[Scott Galloway]

I mean there's been damage. There's been uncalculable economic and moral damage here and loss of brand equity and a loss of moral authority. I don't, I'm not in any way assuming this will repair everything. What I'm suggesting is the following. There is now it is so obvious how damaging this is. Republicans showing up to their town halls and literally getting just absolutely rabid continues.

[Kara Swisher]

Although there's so much hostility towards her. It's really fascinating from some Democrats, but.

[Scott Galloway]

I think you're going to see in the next one or two weeks a cadre of Fortune 500 CEOs. Republicans stand up. Business leaders stand up and say, okay, enough already. While you all claim he's playing 4D chess at this point, we're worried he's going to start eating the pieces. This guy is making the stupidest decisions. And the first person I love Nike. I used to do a lot of work with Nike. I'm going to call. I don't know if call me, but I'm going to call Elliot Hill, the CEO today. The biggest opportunity right now in the commercial consumer world is for the CEO to weaponize their creativity and their agency and to come out against this bullshit and say this is anti American. This is not part of our values. This is not what it means to be an American. Someone in the Fortune 5 is going to come out and say this is bullshit. And guess what? The people who actually have the money to buy this shit are going to think, you know what? I like the swoosh again.

[Kara Swisher]

I like your prediction. I hope it's true.

[Scott Galloway]

They made Harvard. He's made Harvard likable again.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah. And you know, interesting Josh Shapiro who got attacked on Passover, his house, who's the governor of Pennsylvania Trump has yet to call him, which is really an astonishing thing. Of course if there was a Tesla in the driveway, he certainly would call it terrorism. But of course he's, yeah, he wanted.

[Scott Galloway]

To label people throwing shit at Tesla's an act of domestic terrorism.

[Kara Swisher]

Also Pam Bond.

[Scott Galloway]

But the governor of Pennsylvania, someone tries to burn his house down with him in it on during pass. I mean, but, but, oh, we're just going to keep that, we're just going to ignore that. Anyways, I like to think that all of a sudden a bunch of leaders in the Republican Party and in the business world are reaching down and finding these spherical things called testicles.

[Kara Swisher]

I don't know. Marco Ruby keeps making stupid arguments. They're trying to, yeah, but he's in the administration. Guy who's in el Salvador is M13 with no proof.

[Scott Galloway]

People in the administration are, they're, they're, they've just, they've signed up for the Dear Leader pack. They're in, they're in the cult. They're like, okay, maybe, maybe I disagree with Jim Jones, but I came down to Guyana, I'm going to drink the Kool Aid. I'm talking about Fortune 500 CEOs and I'm talking about even some, some Republican congresspeople. This has gotten so out of control. Control. And they're going to do it out of greed. The first consumer brand that stands up and says, I am standing up to this. The first Republican that stands up and says, okay, come for me. This is insane. Especially in a district where, like in Kentucky where Canada being more strategic is like, no, let's just not do blanket tariffs. Let's go after red states. I mean, I do think anyway, my long winded way of saying my prediction is the worm has turned and we're going to see people who Supposedly were part of the cult, the Fortune 500, which has been visibly absent. They're going to remember that. This guy's quote, first they came for the socialists. Right. Okay, be clear, folks. Everyone could get this knock on the door. And I do think the worm has turned. I think there is economic incentive now to come out against this shit. And you know who provided cloud cover for it? Chairman Powell.

[Kara Swisher]

Yes, he does. But we'll see. We'll see. From your mouth to all your legions of babies.

[Scott Galloway]

You're cynical, you know, or you don't think you're skeptical?

[Kara Swisher]

No, no, I don't. I think it'll take longer than you think. It'll be more damaging. I think he will have damaged and wrecked people's lives and in the process.

[Scott Galloway]

Oh, I think that's already happened.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, I think he's gonna keep doing it, I think until. Until the midterms. And if the Democrats win, he's in for a world of pain for the rest of his life. That's where I think it is anyway. That's a great prediction, Scott, by the way. And as I said, from your lips to your legions of baby's ears. Elsewhere in Scott and Cara universe. Scott, you just had a big interview with Canada's new Prime Minister, Mark Carney. Very nice get you chatted about a lot of things, including Canada's role in changing world and whether the U.S. canada relationship can be fixed as trade tensions rise. Obviously, Scott is a particular friend of Canada and they love us there. Let's listen to a clip.

[Scott Galloway]

You know, from a Canadian perspective, we are willing to take the price to restructure our economy in a different direction. Direction like it's been such a sense of. I mean, the word that's used is betrayal. So, you know, we signed a deal, we've had this partnership. We observe it in good faith. We set up businesses, we, you know, we know lots of American. We like Americans, we listen to American podcasts. You know, there's such a thing. And all of a sudden, you know, we get these, you know, these attacks is. Which is the way this is viewed is okay. So it's going to cost us for a period of time and we'll build out and build with others.

[Kara Swisher]

What a nice voice he has.

[Scott Galloway]

He's a very impressive guy. He was. He was asked to be again the first non Brit to head the bank of England. I asked him, I thought the nicest part of the podcast. I asked him in a lightning round, I said, if you could go back and speak to someone who's not with us anymore. Who would it be and what would you say? And he paused and he said, my dad and I would tell him I love him. Oh.

[Kara Swisher]

Oh, wow.

[Scott Galloway]

It was really a nice moment.

[Kara Swisher]

You probably weep, didn't you?

[Scott Galloway]

Oh, my God. Well, he got emotional. Made me feel very emotional.

[Kara Swisher]

Oh, very nice. He's an impressive and by the way, incredible turnaround in Canada for the liberals. Like, this weird little conservative was gonna win, and now he looks like he's gonna lose. Pierre Poivoir.

[Scott Galloway]

Trump is literally toxic for the entire world right now. The most elegant way to reduce everyone's prosperity. But in terms of popularity, he's taken Claudia schonbaum's popularity above 80%.

[Kara Swisher]

Incredible. Incredible.

[Scott Galloway]

I mean, everyone is rallying against this guy.

[Kara Swisher]

We'll see if he wins. We'll see. But anyway, that looks like that's the case. It was a good interview, Scott. I listened to it. It was terrific. Okay, that's the show. Thanks for listening to Pivot and be sure to like and subscribe to our YouTube channel. We'll be back next week. Scott, read us out.

[Scott Galloway]

Today's show is produced by Lara Naman, Zoe Marcus and Taylor Griffin, earning her Todd entry near this episode. Jim Mackle edited the video. Thanks also to Drew Bros, Ms. Aio and Dan Shalon. Nishat Kurwa is Vox Media's executive producer. Podcast. Make sure you subscribe to the show wherever you listen to podcasts. Thank you for listening to Pivot from New York Magazine and Vox Media. You can subscribe to the [e-mail] pod we'll be back next week for another breakdown of all things tech and business. Then they came for me and they're was no one left to speak for me.