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- [00:01]
Scott Galloway
What do walking 10,000 steps every day, eating five servings of fruits and veggies, and getting eight hours of sleep have in common? They're all healthy choices. But do all healthier choices really pay off with prescription plans from CVS Caremark? They do. Their plan designs give your members more choice, which gives your members more ways to get on, stay on and manage their meds. And that helps your business control your costs because healthier members are better for business. Go to CMK CO Access to learn more about helping your members stay adherent. That's CMK coacss. Avoiding your unfinished home projects because you're not sure where to start. Thumbtack knows homes so you don't have to don't know the difference between matte paint, finish and satin or what that clunking sound from your dryer is. With thumbtack, you don't have to be a home pro, you just have to hire one. You can hire top rated pros, see price estimates and read reviews all on the app. Download today. Close your eyes. Listen to Monday.com feel the sensation of an AI work platform so flexible and intuitive it feels like it was built just for you. Now open your eyes, go to Monday.com, start for free, and finally breathe.
- [01:23]
Kara Swisher
Some people hate you and love me. And some people love you and hate me. It's perfect. Hi everyone, this is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media podcast network. I'm Kara Swisher.
- [01:35]
Scott Galloway
And I'm Scott Galloway.
- [01:36]
Kara Swisher
Resist an unsubscribe. February has begun. How's it going? You've been putting up a lot. You've been really getting rid of shit. I've been getting rid of a lot, but not like you. I still have Uber. I was just going to pause it and use Lyft instead.
- [01:48]
Scott Galloway
Yeah, it sucks when you got to walk the walk.
- [01:50]
Kara Swisher
I know, I know.
- [01:52]
Scott Galloway
So, I mean, I'm insight. You'd be a better judge of how it's going than me. I've literally, I've gotten hundreds and I'm about to cross a thousand emails of people with screenshots of them unsubscribing. Obviously you need hundreds of thousands, maybe millions. I'm going on cnn, msnbc, pbs. I'm doing the rounds there.
- [02:10]
Kara Swisher
I think it's taken off. I have to tell you, I'm hearing it from lots of people.
- [02:14]
Scott Galloway
Oh, thanks. I think. Well, I hope you're right. You're probably being generous because you like me, but I've heard from about a third of the companies either their CEOs, and they've been very polite, but they're like, you realize that I supported this and I'm against ice. And I'm like, yeah, to me you are. But I haven't heard you say dick publicly.
- [02:29]
Kara Swisher
Not dick.
- [02:31]
Scott Galloway
And what's interesting is through the process, for example, I unsubscribed from Uber or I canceled my Uber account.
- [02:39]
Kara Swisher
That was a big one. I thought that was a big deal.
- [02:40]
Scott Galloway
Oh, my God. Before you go, it tells you, all right, I've ordered 37 times from Uber Eats. How many Ubers have I taken in the last 10 years? Guess.
- [02:47]
Kara Swisher
I don't know. Thousands.
- [02:48]
Scott Galloway
3,000, 747.
- [02:50]
Kara Swisher
Yeah, yeah.
- [02:51]
Scott Galloway
And I did some. I did some math here.
- [02:53]
Kara Swisher
Everyone thought you had a private driver. I'm like, he doesn't have a private driver.
- [02:56]
Scott Galloway
It's called Uber. It's called Dara Kasper Shahi.
- [02:58]
Kara Swisher
Yeah, that's right.
- [02:59]
Scott Galloway
Anyways, I absolutely love Uber locks. And this is a story of privilege. Let me do my land. Acknowledgments. Most people don't have the money I have anyways, but I've taken 350 Ubers a year for the last 10 years on average. The average price of Uber Lux has gone from 40 to $60 to $80 to $120. And this is what these companies do. They do pricing. They price it below market. Incredible value proposition. They wait till they consolidate the market, then they start raising prices, which Uber has done 7 to 10% a year for the last decade. So this year in 2025, do you know how much I'm spending a year on Uber?
- [03:33]
Kara Swisher
No. What?
- [03:34]
Scott Galloway
I'm spending $34,000 a year on Uber.
- [03:36]
Kara Swisher
What? Where are you going?
- [03:39]
Scott Galloway
I figured it out. Everywhere I go. Everywhere.
- [03:43]
Kara Swisher
You could have hired a driver.
- [03:44]
Scott Galloway
Yeah, okay. No, better yet, I figured it out. I'm now taking the tube here. I'm taking the subway. By the way, the subway in New York is amazing. And I'm. I'm. I'm filling in the gaps with UberX, whatever it's called. The cheap one where you get an air freshener and, you know, a guy who can't figure out ways, that was probably a hate crime anyways. And then. But I figured out the money I'm going to save, I could buy, including insurance and parking. I could lease a Mercedes G Wagon, a Range Rover, or the new BMW I Series 7. People do not realize how much money they are spending on these platforms because they get you in, they automatically renew. Time goes faster than you think, right? I found out I have three ChatGPT subscriptions. I'm not sure why, but I had three.
- [04:34]
Kara Swisher
A drunken night.
- [04:35]
Scott Galloway
I have four Apple TV subscriptions. I'm like, how do I log on here? And I just log on again or I just create a new account. I have been. I switched from AT&T, which has been a supporter of ice. I'm saving approximately $70 a month on ATT. Switching over to Noble, which I did before. Anyways, I'm trying to unsubscribe from something every day and do some analysis around what I've spent and what it's cost.
- [05:03]
Kara Swisher
But may I ask a question because someone didn't bring this up. Would you get rid of your stocks in these companies?
- [05:09]
Scott Galloway
Oh, that's a tough one.
- [05:11]
Kara Swisher
I know, that's what I thought. I thought it was a good question.
- [05:13]
Scott Galloway
Okay, this is the bottom line. I think I'm going to have to. I'm also thinking about transferring all of my stocks and bonds and assets from Goldman and going either to a regional bank or even a Canadian bank.
- [05:34]
Kara Swisher
Canadian bank, rbc, whatever.
- [05:36]
Scott Galloway
I just don't want to hate Amer. I don't want to hurt Americans. But I think I might go to a regional bank. But I am, I am going to, I am going to try and walk the walk here and every day I'm unsubscribing or canceling from something.
- [05:50]
Kara Swisher
But yeah, it gets easy to harder. That was a good question from a listener. All right, let's listen to some of what our listeners have called in to tell us they've done. I unsubscribe from Apple tv. I have personally unsubscribed from every streaming service that is currently out there. Personally, I had given up Amazon 3 egregious Jeff Bezos acts ago. I had been guiltily keeping the Kindle Unlimited that is gone as of today, as is Apple Fitness.
- [06:22]
Scott Galloway
This is Michael in Cameroon and I have canceled my ChatGPT Pro and Amazon Prime. Amazon acquired IMDb 25 years ago. I've been paying for the Pro membership subscription for the last 20 years and it's a pain, but I can find this information elsewhere. So click.
- [06:44]
Kara Swisher
This is all different. You don't realize how, how we, how much stuff we pay these people everywhere. And also what's really helpful is you gave examples of what you can go to. Like I think you said go to oh, music service. You got rid of a music and you went to a different one. Yeah, you know, helping people go to other things. Now can I just make one point not everything is perfect. No company. All companies have been involved in all kinds of nefarious activities that you don't like. But you've to meet the moment for now and you could always go back to them right at, at some point. That's the thing, it's. You're sending a message right now like I have to give up the Amazon stuff. I gotta work on that today. Like I, I use Amazon a lot. My wife's ship shifted to local retailers which. One of the problems is you can't find products cause of the tariffs like and that's different stuff you use every day. But I'm really, I'm. I think this is a great effort.
- [07:35]
Scott Galloway
Scott Galloway Thanks. And I mean a few things. One, I'm not telling people not to go to work or not to buy groceries. I don't think someone who has the blessings I have is in a position to tell people to take risks with their employment or really sacrifice around things like food. What I'm suggesting is this is a signal and a framework for how you inflict the maximum damage with a minimum amount of sacrifice. And that is if you were to say stop shopping at Kroger's and reduce your grocery spend. I think you have X impact. When you go after big tech, who has the presidents and the markets ear and subscription revenue where these companies are trading at 30, 50, 100 times revenues, you have 40x the impact on the administration with what is in my view a fairly minimal sacrifice. When you look at how many substitutes there are and when you actually uncover how much money you're spending and what is really required to not participate, it's not as much as you'd think. There is, there's the tube, there's UberX, there are a ton of streaming media platforms. There are free 30 day Spotify accounts. If you cancel and then resubscribe, it's. There's a lot of ways here to have a big impact without a huge. You don't have to take your entire Saturday and go to a protest and I'm not discouraging people from doing that. But if you want to look at maximum impact relative to the investment or the sacrifice, I think this is it.
- [08:59]
Kara Swisher
Yep, I like the three, three egregious Jeff Bezos acts ago. We're in like 10 at this point anyway. Keep going, keep going. Keep putting those things up. I'll keep people. You can find hundreds of dollars that you can take away from them and they will know it does add up. A little tiny drop becomes a great stream and then an ocean. So anyway, we've got a lot to get to today, so let's dig in. The Justice Department released this was something over the weekend 3.5 million new pages of Epstein related files late last week. They' not even the worst ones. There's 3 million more. That must be the worst including 2,000 videos and 180,000 images a mere 42 days after the federally mandated deadline. By the way, they are not following the law. There are millions more they need to release. They said they weren't going to, but they are going to have to, I think. Deputy Attorney General Todd Blanch said the release brings the DOJ into compliance with the Epstein files Transparency Act. It doesn't. The lawmakers and survivors are calling the document dump inadequate and filled with redaction errors. At least 5,300 docum mentioned Donald Trump. A lot of these are unverified tips. But Trump said he's been told the latest release absolves him. It does not. The files show how Epstein's network stretched across Hollywood, Wall Street, Washington, Silicon Valley. That's what's really quite fascinating here with people like Brett Ratner who was just at the White House. He did the Melania document. Howard Lutnick who lied about being in touch with Epstein. He made a big show of not thinking he was awful and then was hanging out with him in his place in the Caribbean. Bill Gates, Elon Musk all appearing the documents. Elon Musk looked like he's losing, having a stroke in real time over these things and trying to pretend he doesn't mean anything. So talk about this and obviously another person has caught up some we've talked about Peter Attio, a number of really distasteful texts, thousands of them actually. So lots of people involved. They really stretch the gamut and they're all very social with each other. Casey Wasserman, who's running the Olympic effort, for example, apologized. I'll take note. Just so you know, a lot of fake Elon emails floating out there. But it's clear his relationship with Elon is not how he's framed it in the past, which is he wasn't interested. He's been posting on X all weekend saying there's where his emails to Epstein could be misinterpreted. He's also back and forth with Reid Hoffman who Reid really got him saying if he really cared about the victims he wouldn't have spent $210 million in Donald Trump and also have all that non consensual stuff on, on on Grok Which I think is absolutely right. So. Thoughts, Scott? I mean, it's been pretty riveting in a lot of ways.
- [11:38]
Scott Galloway
I mean, there's just so much here. One, I think you have to put on your critical thinking cap and discern between different acts, criminal acts, poor judgment, and people who are just unlucky. Any other administration would be taking advantage of the moment to say, we have appointed a special counsel here and we are going to prosecute people based on this information and the criminal. If you had sex with an underage girl, you should be subject to criminal prosecution. And these files seem to indicate that that absolutely happened here. And all this bullshit about concern over the victims. Well, okay. The way you bring closure and create incentives such that other people don't do this is you criminally prosecute. There's another group of people that I think is even bigger, and that is the people who have demonstrated really poor judgment by cohorting, collaborating, commiserating with a convicted pedophile.
- [12:36]
Kara Swisher
Let me add, Steve Bannon was right up in his groove. He was. They were like fricking frack, right?
- [12:41]
Scott Galloway
And those people should be shamed. Maybe those people. Maybe we should not be comfortable with those people in leadership positions. I'd like to think the bar for, you know, president is that that would not clear that bar. So people get to decide if they're comfortable with those errors in judgment. And then I think an even bigger concentric circle is a lot of people who are just in the wrong place at the wrong time. And I don't. I, you know, I don't want to. I'm not saying I absolve them of all, or I. I don't think they're guiltless. But I do think a lot of people got invited to some conference about philanthropy or whatever and ended up in the Epstein files.
- [13:18]
Kara Swisher
Yeah, no, I know. I. Listen, Oddly enough, I will say full disclosure. We sent Epstein a note to go to Dive into Media because we bought a TED list. And he was a big. A lot of those people in these files are all ex or TED people. They were. And so we bought mailing lists. And there's an email that was a mailing list email. It wasn't from me. He was on it. And then for some reason, some of the people around him sent him articles I wrote. And that's, you know, so I searched myself immediately. And that's the pretty. That's the extent of what I can find. I have been at parties, as I said, where big, huge dinner events at, like, ted. TED was where he showed up. A lot. Where he apparently was. I never met him, but I mean, what you're talking about, correct.
- [14:05]
Scott Galloway
Look, Elon Musk, who appears to have been, you know, had a decent amount of interaction with Jeffrey Epstein, immediately goes on the offensive and tries to start pulling Reid Hoffman into it. And Reid looks like he was squarely on the outer circle here.
- [14:20]
Kara Swisher
Yeah, I would agree. I know a lot about his movies.
- [14:23]
Scott Galloway
That's how gross this is getting. The other observation is that there's pedophilia and what's going on here in some ways is worse. What do I mean by that? I do think there are pedophiles who have a psychiatric ailment where they are unnaturally attracted sexually to children. And I think a lot of them, not a lot of them, some of them recognize this ailment and seek treatment. Some do not. And some end up becoming pedophiles and should end up in prison. I think in some ways this is worse in the sense that I think that people guilty of having sex with underage girls here. While the term is pedophilia, what it is is a group of people who feel they are not subject to laws and the standards that everyone else is subject to. I think they think, oh, this is fun, it's a party. And if I have sex with an underage girl, that's fun and it's a thrill and I can do it because I am not subject to the same standards and laws as everyone else. So while I think a lot of these people, if in fact there was and it appears there was criminal rape, I'm not sure they're pedophiles. What they are is people who've decided that because of their money, power and proximity to power that they're not subject to any standards whatsoever. In my opinion, in some ways that's the sickness that infects our powerful.
- [15:55]
Kara Swisher
Well, what's interesting is how it cuts across party lines, right? You have all these Democrat leaning people kibitzing with like a Steve Bannon, kibitzing with a this and that, all unified.
- [16:07]
Scott Galloway
Around partying and having sex with St. Barts.
- [16:10]
Kara Swisher
Yeah, yeah, girls and stuff like that. That's what was gross. I do think I want to zero in on the judgment thing here because there is judgment of what you should and shouldn't do. Like, you know, everyone knew what this guy was back then. Trust me, they did and they went anyway. And so bad judgment on Bill Gates part. And I think Melinda Gates has talked about this. Howard Lutnick like literally went out of his way to say what A good judgment he had by never. He had a massage table in his living room and went bragged on how he rejected him and then was at his place, stayed at his house, was like super friendly. Fuck that guy. Like, judgment. But I'm sorry, there's more there than that. The same thing with Peter Attia. I feel like everyone knew. Knew what was happening here. And so there should be a. You can decide what you want to do with these people, but there should be a price for this level of. It's in the same genre of we can do whatever we want. Who cares? You know, Ha, ha ha. You know, pussy is low carb. Like, are you kidding me? Like, I mean, it would be. It's stupid joke if the guy you weren't talking to was a sexual predator. Right. And so that's why I find it a little more.
- [17:24]
Scott Galloway
I see I'm. I'm less. And it's safer just to say this is awful and these people should be canceled. I do think that people, when they send private emails should be granted a lot of license. And if they aren't guilty of a crime, you can decide not to listen to their podcast.
- [17:42]
Kara Swisher
Yep, that's what I mean.
- [17:43]
Scott Galloway
But I think we have a tendency to mix criminal activity with poor judgment. And I think you have to draw bright lines between them. And I don't. To me, it just is like someone has accidentally mentioned in the Epstein files because they flew on a plane with other people to some nonprofit event talking about technology and people who might have been in the files. There is report of an individual who impregnated an 11 year old.
- [18:12]
Kara Swisher
Yeah. Yep.
- [18:13]
Scott Galloway
I mean, one is spend the rest of your life in prison. The other was, okay, maybe you should do more diligence on the planes you're on. And it feels like it's all been wrapped up into one amorphous blob.
- [18:24]
Kara Swisher
I get it. I agree. I agree. But there are some very clear lines when I'm talking about Lutnick. He went out of his way to say how much he hated the guy. And then right in the emails, he did just.
- [18:32]
Scott Galloway
I'm trying to rewrite history.
- [18:33]
Kara Swisher
Yes, he's a liar. So that we know. Same thing with Musk. He was just fine. Can't you just say I'm mean? You know who did that? Katie Couric went to a dinner at Epstein's house, one of these dinners. He used to have these like influencer dinners. She went, she said, I should have done more research. I apologize. I abhor him. Like, she just took. She Just took responsibility for her stupid judgment there. Right. And I think that's fine. I don't think we should like she.
- [19:01]
Scott Galloway
But it brings up a point. Should Katie Couric do research on every dinner invitation?
- [19:05]
Kara Swisher
No, not necessarily. But when it, when it was came to pass, what it was very clear.
- [19:09]
Scott Galloway
She apologized.
- [19:09]
Kara Swisher
She apologized and said, oh, how dumb. You're not hearing from Howard Lutt, you're not hearing from Peter Attia. Like I'm sure he's engaged a very expensive crisis manager here, but. And then Elon spinning so hard, he's.
- [19:22]
Scott Galloway
Gone on the attack. He's trying to pretend that he somehow was protected or like was a. Just, just so offended by Jeffrey Epstein. And can you believe what Reid Hoffman did? Meanwhile.
- [19:31]
Kara Swisher
Yes. Over look over here.
- [19:33]
Scott Galloway
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [19:34]
Kara Swisher
I'm glad Reid slapped him back to last Sunday because he's right, Elon. If you actually cared about women, you, you'd have helped the victims financially instead of giving money to Donald Trump. You'd have gotten your non consensual sex off of Grok. But you don't care. You don't care. You don't care. Like you don't have an interest in.
- [19:50]
Scott Galloway
But again, the really shocking thing to me is, and I know very powerful and wealthy people, just the belief that they can just do anything right and they're going to be immune.
- [20:03]
Kara Swisher
They do. They're like that. It was a weird scene.
- [20:06]
Scott Galloway
I have friends who are fairly famous actors and if they walk into a scenario with a lot of women or a party scene, they're like, I can't be here. I can't be here. I'm not gonna do anything. I'm not even gonna flirt with anybody. But I can't be here because if it hits the press, it'll upset my wife. It will create talking points that aren't good, that will insinuate. I mean, I know people who are so careful and shape their lives realizing that unfair or not, picture a photo of you and then these guys, Jeffrey Epstein, these guys go to an island and start having sex with underage women. And aren't worri believe that this isn't going to come back to haunt them.
- [20:50]
Kara Swisher
There's also a lot of people that enable them and one person that by the way, I searched you immediately.
- [20:57]
Scott Galloway
What in the Epstein boss, of course. Yeah, no, that's one party I wasn't invited to.
- [21:02]
Kara Swisher
Yeah, you weren't. But did you really search for me? I searched everybody.
- [21:08]
Scott Galloway
Did you really search for me?
- [21:09]
Kara Swisher
I did. I had to. I work with you. I have to make certain.
- [21:13]
Scott Galloway
Okay. All right.
- [21:14]
Kara Swisher
Thank God.
- [21:16]
Scott Galloway
Yeah.
- [21:17]
Kara Swisher
Come on. I search. I searched like, 20 names of people I know.
- [21:20]
Scott Galloway
Season two, gay hockey with the dog Frosty. That's what you gotta worry about. I gotta be an extra. I'm gonna be an extra.
- [21:28]
Kara Swisher
I don't worry about that. I would welcome any sexual expression consensual.
- [21:33]
Scott Galloway
My next career fluffer for gay. For Gay Badminton, the new original series on hbo.
- [21:39]
Kara Swisher
I welcome any joyful consensual sexual expression you want to have. Scott Galloway's.
- [21:45]
Scott Galloway
At this point, when I orgasm, it's just mist coming out. There's just literally. It's gotta be a Pam Greer film, a cattle prod up my ass and literally cattle fraud. Like a Cialis shake. And I gotta snort Viagra and watch Jackie Brown. And then it's go time. It's go time.
- [22:01]
Kara Swisher
I'm moving you on. I would say the people that are worse are not even worse. They're just as bad. Are some of these enablers. And I will name them. John Brockman is throughout it, and I urge you to look up. He was a guy who was involved with all these intellectuals who were. Who? Epstein Funding. He ran a billionaire's dinner at ted. I have attended that. He obviously the facilitators. These kind of people have to be looked at, too. The way they sort of facilitated what you're talking about, which is this very easy peasy, let's get together and talk intellectual stuff. Which they loved. Let me tell you. The reason you're seeing a lot of tech people in this group, and you are, is because they desperately sought out validation through intellectual discourse. They used to love having these events, whether. Whatever they happen to be. Thank God. One thing I did have our staff for our CODE conference look him up. He was on the wait list of D5, the one with gates and Jobs. And we didn't let him in. I remember particularly not letting him in. But he did somehow show up and talk to Tim Cook on the sidelines of one of my conferences, which I wasn't aware of. It was in the files too.
- [23:11]
Scott Galloway
But, yeah. My view is you go. My view is you go much harder on the people who are criminals.
- [23:17]
Kara Swisher
Yes.
- [23:18]
Scott Galloway
And quite frankly, you go much lighter on the people who, like you, get invited by a billionaire to go party on an island. If you see crime, you leave. But I don't. I think a lot of people for a lot of different reasons. This guy had a big sphere around people. He really did.
- [23:33]
Kara Swisher
He was like an octopus in terms of trying to meet people. And a lot of people facilitated that for him.
- [23:38]
Scott Galloway
So. But there needs to be more prison and more judgment around who is in the wrong place at the wrong time.
- [23:44]
Kara Swisher
Yes, I agree, but there's a lot of people who knew exactly what they were doing. So I think it's a stack ranking of what people were doing in some cases and people like Peter Attia and others really deserve some. You can censure him or not, but I think he's grotesque. Anyway, let's go on a quick break. When we come back, Trump's new Fed Chair. Support for this show comes from BetterHelp. Sometimes February can make it seem like everyone has the perfect love life, that they've got it all together, but plenty of people out there are just trying to figure out what they want in a relationship and what makes them happy. Whether you're married, dating, single or focusing on you, BetterHelp says therapy can help you see that more clearly and help take some pressure off yourself. BetterHelp does the initial matching between you and a licensed therapist so you can focus on your therapy goals. 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Learn how you can get more out of your.com from a framer specialist or get started building for free today@framer.com pivot for 30% off a framework framer pro annual plan. That's framer.com pivot for 30% OFF framer.com pivot rules and restrictions may apply. Support for today's show comes from upwork. One of the biggest growth hacks is realizing you don't have to do it all by yourself. Upwork makes it easy to bring in the right freelancer when you need them so you can stay focused on what you do best. Upwork is a one stop platform to find, hire and pay expert freelancers across the web in software development, data and analytics, marketing, business operations and more. They help grow your business by giving you fast access to specialized talent across 125 plus categories so you can fill skill gaps, launch projects faster and scale up, support or down without committing to a full time headcount. You can browse profiles, review past work and get help scoping the role so you can hire with confidence and get started quickly. And with Business plus, you can access the top 1% of talent on Upwork and with AI powered shortlisting, you'll get matched to the right freelancer in under six hours. No endless searching required. You can visit upwork.com right now to post your job for free and connect with top talent ready to help your business grow. That's up. W o r k.com Upwork.com. Scott we're back. President Trump has made his pick for Fed chair. I predicted it would be the most handsome of the white guys. That's right, the best hair. Trump nominated former governor Kevin Warsh on Friday, calling him central casting, and says he'll go down as one of the great Fed chairmen. Maybe the best. Of course, he did say that about Jerome Powell, although when he picked him, Trump also joked during his speech this weekend that he would sue Warsh if interest rates didn't get lowered. Warsh is set to take the reins from Jerome Powell in May, but he needs to get through the Senate confirmation process, which might be hard because Republican Senator Thom Tillis, who suddenly found his balls, is already saying he's a no until the DOJ probe into Powell is resolved. Good for Him Tillis is really on fire. He's going to use up all his troublemaking before he leaves. He was sort of shoved to the side by Trump, by threats from Trump. But he's still in power so he can do something about it. So talk about this pick. Warsh very briefly popped up in the Epstein files that we were missing on, saying he was on a guest list. St. Barth's Christmas 2010 Again, what you were talking about. I get it, I get it. In that case, that's it. So I don't think that should necessarily be, it shouldn't be a factor unless more stuff is found out. But talk about this pick. What do you think about war?
- [28:49]
Scott Galloway
I think it's, to be blunt, I think it's a great pick given the context of who he could have selected.
- [28:55]
Kara Swisher
Right? That's true. Could have been Don Jr. Yeah, I.
- [29:00]
Scott Galloway
Wouldn'T be surprised if he picked Lara Trump. He does my, to give credit where it's due, I think around these, these big financial appointments, I think he shows greater judgment around these appointments than he does around others. But essentially this guy, he's very qualified. He's been described as a hawk. The fear around this appointment was that it was someone who would be subject to the political pressures of the presidency, would immediately start cutting interest rates and begin an upward spiral of inflation. And that fear was sending metals to record highs. Silver and gold exploded. And the best indication that the market likes this pick is that when the pick was announced, metals crashed or they pulled back. This guy's known as a hawk. He served as liaison between Bernanke and the Wall street community during the 08 crisis, which most people think was handled really well. I like the fact he has a reputation as a hawk. I love the fact that these appointments, I believe, explain what a hawk is. He's got, he's, well, someone who's more worried about inflation than lower growth. Someone who will keep interest rate longer than maybe they should. They err on the side of lower growth but less risk of inflation. And everyone is really worried that Trump is putting pressure and would rather err on the side of inflation.
- [30:22]
Kara Swisher
Do you think he can resist the pressure? He saw what happened to Powell.
- [30:26]
Scott Galloway
That's what's great about these appointments is that they're, they're 14 year tenure.
- [30:30]
Kara Swisher
I, I get that. But like he could be undergo what Powell's been undergone fake criminal probes, et cetera.
- [30:36]
Scott Galloway
As far as I know, Powell's serving out his term and hasn't bent an inch.
- [30:40]
Kara Swisher
Right.
- [30:40]
Scott Galloway
I mean, and that's why it speaks to the importance of the independence of the Fed.
- [30:43]
Kara Swisher
But, well, you wonder what this guy said to Trump, right? And why did he say he's gonna sue him? You know, that's all weird. I find it weird.
- [30:50]
Scott Galloway
There's something about the power, and we've seen this on the Supreme Court. A lot of people show up with a history or say one thing to the Senate and then they get on the Supreme Court and they take advantage of their lifetime appointment and they behave differently.
- [31:04]
Kara Swisher
Not in a good way.
- [31:06]
Scott Galloway
Well, actually, some of the older appointees became, from our viewpoint, much more progressive.
- [31:13]
Kara Swisher
Well, look at Earl Warren.
- [31:15]
Scott Galloway
Remember, I mean, they really did, over time, think about what an incredible luxury it is to just focus on, to be granted the tenure, and this is the basis of tenure in colleges, to just try and pursue the truth and to screen out as many external forces as possible. That is a luxury and it's reserved for what people think is the most important positions in the world, including what may be the most important position in the world, and that is the Chairman of the Federal Reserve. So I was actually quite relieved when I saw this. I have a bias. I like Morgan Stanley. Anyone who ran M and A. And Morgan Stanley has a pretty serious.
- [31:53]
Kara Swisher
Well, he's a serious candidate, right?
- [31:54]
Scott Galloway
He's a serious guy.
- [31:56]
Kara Swisher
Had been like genuflecting. He had knee pads on at one point. Although he was very. Considered a very prominent.
- [32:02]
Scott Galloway
I was worried it was going to be the MyPillow guy. I just wouldn't put anything past this president right now. This is, I think, a good pick. The markets like it. He's an adult, he has a command of the markets, has a really good relationship with Wall street, and I just hope that he shows.
- [32:19]
Kara Swisher
I suspect they'll drop the Powell. The Powell. Powell probe to get him through.
- [32:24]
Scott Galloway
Well, here's the thing. Powell's gonna still be on the Board of governors.
- [32:27]
Kara Swisher
Yeah, well, that's what they're trying to do.
- [32:29]
Scott Galloway
I don't care who the chairman is. I don't care who the chairman is. The biggest voice in the room is still gonna be Powell's.
- [32:34]
Kara Swisher
Yep, yep, yep. We'll see. Anyway, good hair. Kevin and I picked. I knew the handsome man would win. Also, besides the handsome man, I was right about Elon planning to merge SpaceX and Xai. That is precisely what happened. The acquisition will give the combined company a valuation of 1.25 trillion. Flimflammery works for Elon Musk. Investors have also been pushing the idea of bringing Tesla into this. Obviously, he had already merged Twitter or X the service into xai sort of to hide it away in there, all their losses. So now it's Twitter, SpaceX and Xai. And you can just imagine Tesla being next in the scenario. XAI shares would be swapped for SpaceX shares just for people that don't know. SpaceX is weighing a June IPO listing could seek to raise as much as $50 billion, making it the biggest IPO of all time. And again, if that sounds a little familiar, guess what? Kara Swisher predicted it last April. Because I know how this guy thinks. And again, let's listen to what I predicted last April. Let's hear it again. Can.
- [33:40]
Scott Galloway
By the way, I just want to. I just want to ack. I've been doing research. You blew my mind with the notion of a combined Tesla Xai and SpaceX. You know, and I'm. I'm just like. That has totally blown my mind about.
- [33:54]
Kara Swisher
As long as you attribute it to me.
- [33:56]
Scott Galloway
Just attribute it, don't I. I do. But that the idea of him merging all of those companies, like I can't wrap my head around what that would mean.
- [34:04]
Kara Swisher
He's got to. He's got. It's the only move and he would do it. So let's talk about that. The reason I thought about that was because he's an internal flim flam man and he needed a new narrative and this works out for hiding. When he did the first Twitter XAI merger, he just got rid of the problem of everyone talking about what a shitty business it was. Tesla's obviously troubled Xai is being upheld by the valuations of AI companies and SpaceX is a real winner. So what do you. And you could make an argument that they all fit together, right? Sure, why not? Not like data things moving blah. And he'll do it. So what do you think?
- [34:43]
Scott Galloway
After the disaster at Chernobyl where radiation leaked for I guess hundreds or thousands of square miles, there's a lot of farmland and a lot of livestock. And what they found was, okay, a lot of the beef and lamb and chicken had traces of radiation from the radiation leak at Chernobyl. And the Russian officials decided, okay, we're not going to throw away this meat, we're just going to parse it out and send small amounts mixed in with non radiated meat to different grocery stores because a little bit of radiation, as long as we mix it with non radioactive meat, it's okay. This is Musk basically taking his radioactive meat and that is Tesla, which isn't 10x the value of what it should be trading at Xai, which is sort of working, isn't. And then wrapping it in the non radioactive meat, which is SpaceX, which in my opinion is one of the most impressive companies with the greatest differentiation in history right now. 90% of launch capability, 2/3 of low earth satellites. And he's basically going to take all of it and say, okay, autonomous AI space launch capability and take it all into one giant, one giant musk AI innovation that will get robots that will say, this is. You have to own this company. Because when you look at the. That's right. When you look at Tesla, it's like, okay, it's an automobile company that should be trading at 30 bucks a share, not 400 or whatever it's at. When you look at Xai, all right, it's a distant 7th LLM. When you look at robots, those make no fucking sense. But if you wrap all of that, AI economists do, oh, and Twitter, you know, a platform that's probably worth 10 billion not what he paid. Wrap it all into a communications satellite, space launch, AI, automated driving, and it's the kind of stock that everyone has to own. So this is an attempt to create individual ingredients, some of which are amazing and some of which have real problems, and put it all into one stew. I think it's a smart move.
- [36:53]
Kara Swisher
Quite frank duck. And that's why I thought, I think, like a really a fucked up fling plan, man. That's how I think, right? That's. I was like, what? I sit there and I go, what will he do? That's how I thought of it. That's exactly.
- [37:05]
Scott Galloway
Let's go brainstorm about it on an island. I got. This guy's really smart.
- [37:12]
Kara Swisher
I was not on the island. I did not.
- [37:13]
Scott Galloway
And he puts together these amazing parties with like thought leaders and. And by the way, I am so shocked I am not on that list because the only reason I get invited to Davos, I get invited a place like that we're called. I refer to us. I say, I saw Jonathan Haidt and I saw Adam Grant at Davos. I'm like, you realize what we are? And they're like, wow. I'm like, we're intellectual support animals. We're here to make people feel.
- [37:33]
Kara Swisher
Dancing fucking dogs.
- [37:34]
Scott Galloway
Yeah, we're fucking poodles. We're Phoebe the dad. We're like, dance for Yoda dinner. We have CEO BlackRock and Chairman of Finland. Now. Tell us something about young men.
- [37:44]
Kara Swisher
Can I tell you? So many powerful people texting me like, scott's so amusing, amusing.
- [37:49]
Scott Galloway
That's the word I get.
- [37:50]
Kara Swisher
You know what I mean? Like, he's so interesting. I was like, oh, my God, he's totally your dancing monkey is what's happening.
- [37:55]
Scott Galloway
Yeah. That was my moment at Davos. I sit next to a woman I have never met before.
- [37:59]
Kara Swisher
Yeah.
- [38:00]
Scott Galloway
And all of a sudden, she starts going, Kara's texting me and says I'm next to you. I'm like, how the fuck does she know I'm here?
- [38:08]
Kara Swisher
Rich people were writing me.
- [38:09]
Scott Galloway
You're like the East German Stasi. You know every move.
- [38:13]
Kara Swisher
I see why you like him. Well, because they called. They text.
- [38:17]
Scott Galloway
Who? What's her name? She was lovely.
- [38:18]
Kara Swisher
Dina Powell.
- [38:19]
Scott Galloway
That's probably sexist. I wouldn't say that about a man.
- [38:21]
Kara Swisher
She is lovely. She is.
- [38:23]
Scott Galloway
She's lovely.
- [38:23]
Kara Swisher
She's the new president of Meta. Just so you know.
- [38:25]
Scott Galloway
No. So she started telling me what she was doing, and she was very measured. I'm like, why are you choosing your words so care. Carefully? And then about five minutes later, I'm like, oh, you're a shill for Meta.
- [38:32]
Kara Swisher
Oh, she's not a shill. We'll see.
- [38:35]
Scott Galloway
She's trying to organize the bailout.
- [38:36]
Kara Swisher
She's going to organize the bailout like anybody. Anybody who can get him away from.
- [38:42]
Scott Galloway
She's married to a senator. Talk about a power couple.
- [38:44]
Kara Swisher
David. Yeah, David. Yeah. Thank God. Yeah. He's McCormick. He was with Ray Dalio. Right. He was with Ray Dalio. That's his.
- [38:51]
Scott Galloway
Really?
- [38:52]
Kara Swisher
Yeah.
- [38:52]
Scott Galloway
I can't believe you searched for me in the files.
- [38:55]
Kara Swisher
Why wouldn't I? Are you kidding?
- [38:57]
Scott Galloway
That was numero uno in the files.
- [38:59]
Kara Swisher
Oh, no, you. Oh, come on. Whatever.
- [39:02]
Scott Galloway
In any case, I pay for my services.
- [39:03]
Kara Swisher
We know why he's doing it. All right, we're going to take. I had to, you know, trust but verify. Scott, let's go on a quick break. When we come back, tons of AI news.
- [39:20]
Scott Galloway
A lot of us have spent a lot of the last week watching videos of what's happening on the streets of Minneapolis and understanding what it is that we're seeing. Seeing, but also what's real and what isn't and what's AI and who is taking these videos and how we're supposed to understand the source feels harder than ever.
- [39:38]
Kara Swisher
So this week on the Vergecast, we're.
- [39:39]
Scott Galloway
Talking about what's happening in Minneapolis, how information moves in an AI age and what it means to make sense of it all. All that, plus what's new with the new TikTok, why everything feels like it's falling apart.
- [39:51]
Kara Swisher
On TikTok and more on the Vergecast.
- [39:53]
Scott Galloway
Wherever you get podcasts.
- [39:59]
Kara Swisher
Megan Rapino here this week on A Touch More Trinity Rodman is officially staying with the Washington spirit in the NWSL as the first player to benefit from the NWSL's new High Impact Player role, aka the Rodman Rule. What does this mean for the rest of the league? Also, in light of the potential Caitlyn Clark Paige Becker's rivalry on the horizon, we want to about talk about rivalries in general, how they're formed and what they mean. Plus, Deanna Flores, Flag Football's biggest advocate and Mexico star player, joins the show to tell us why the future is Flag football. Check out the latest episode of A Touch More Wherever you get your podcasts and on YouTube.
- [40:47]
Scott Galloway
It may not feel like it, but Trump's approval rating is some of the lowest in recorded history and it's fallen to new lows in recent weeks as the nation reels from recent killings of two anti ICE protesters in Minnesota. But not everyone thinks he's failing. This week we're hearing from Trump voters.
- [41:05]
Kara Swisher
It is very unfortunate that it happened, but it's also unfortunate that the ICE is being blamed for like just murdering somebody who is just so innocent, which isn't the case whatsoever. A they were provoked. B he got ran over and you know, it just. It's hard to tell what's real and what's not anymore.
- [41:25]
Scott Galloway
He's delivered on virtually every promise he's made. The economy is booming right now. He closed the border. We're not getting any more illegals in. That has been done. That was a major promise. That's been done today. Explained. Listen wherever you get your podcasts.
- [41:48]
Kara Swisher
Scott, we're back now onto some rapid fire news AI news because there's so much. Let me go through them. Amazon is reportedly discussing an investment up to $50 billion in OpenAI. Meanwhile, Nvidia CEO Jensen Huang is pushing back on reports that his company is looking to scale back on its investment in OpenAI. And that was in the Wall Street Journal. I thought it was an excellent article. This all comes as OpenAI is seeking to raise over $100 billion. It prepares for a public listing in the fourth quarter. It's trying to beat Anthropic to that punch. And ANTH topic is clashing with the Pentagon over whether its AI would be used for surveillance and autonomous lethal operations, putting $200 million contract at risk. Your choice Scott Any of the above.
- [42:26]
Scott Galloway
I think the most fragile company with respect to its valuation right now, maybe the exception of Palantir is probably OpenAI. I think OpenAI is racing to establish a leadership position. But if you look at the fact that it doesn't have the fire hose of billions of people built in that Alphabet has, I don't think. And you look at. They're getting, I think they're getting attacked from the top. And that is Alphabet and Gemini, which has doubled its share I think in.
- [42:57]
Kara Swisher
The last 18 months, which was inevitable. Right? Inevitable.
- [43:00]
Scott Galloway
But if you have a billion people or 2 billion people a day coming to your interface and you start introducing AI, that's just very powerful, it has.
- [43:08]
Kara Swisher
A Netscape feel to it, but go ahead.
- [43:10]
Scott Galloway
And then you have Microsoft, which has a recurring revenue relationship with 99.9% of the corporations above a million dollars in revenue. They can introduce really seamlessly different things. And then you have an adjacent competitor and that is Anthropic, which has gone after the enterprise market. So to. I think I've told you this and it's the weakest flex in the world. I was on the board of Gateway computer and about 25 years ago, if you asked analysts who had better prospects, Gateway or Dell, it was split and gateway was at 70 bucks a share anyways. 15 years later it was at 70 cents a share because they went consumer and Dell went small and medium sized business. And we know how the story ends. The story may be unfolding the same way, and that is OpenAI has a consumer offering, but less than 5% of the people actually go to the paid offering. And Anthropic has gone after the enterprise market and quite frankly looks to be beating Anthropic in the enterprise market.
- [44:07]
Kara Swisher
But it is fighting with the panic. It's interesting because he's becoming the most interesting character, Dario Amodi, in terms of talking about safety. He's sort of of. Everyone sort of attacked him for that, especially that dope David Sachs. But I think actually he's opening a lane as the safe AI company. Right.
- [44:23]
Scott Galloway
Well, that used to be Altman's lane.
- [44:25]
Kara Swisher
Right, exactly. But now he's got it right. He's opening a lane where everyone's like, all right, agreed.
- [44:31]
Scott Galloway
They're the clean, well lit corner of the AI bookstore right now is Anthropic. And also going after enterprise looks to be the smartest thing because enterprise wants that enterprise.
- [44:41]
Kara Swisher
You know, why be in the surveillance and autonomous lethal operations business. Business if you can do just as fine selling things to Costco.
- [44:48]
Scott Galloway
Yeah. And just get your media buyers at l' Oreal to be more productive. So my friend Greg Shob is the CEO of Section, which helps enterprises upskill for AI. He said something that just struck me. He said OpenAI has basically 12 months to get massive consumer adoption or start, which he doesn't think it's going to do because people like there's Too many free LLMs or they're going to have to come up with incredible enterprise adoption or there's absolutely no way they can justify this consensual hallucination that they're going to go public at one or one and a half trillion dollars.
- [45:24]
Kara Swisher
Isn't there a desperation for such stocks? Do you think you'll have a situation, you know, with Elon merges, all these things, everyone's going to buy it. Will everyone not buy this? I mean, would you, you, Scott Galloway want. Of course. You just got rid of chatgpt, so you're not allowed to. Because virtue signal the right way.
- [45:39]
Scott Galloway
Yeah, but you forget I'm a whore.
- [45:40]
Kara Swisher
I know.
- [45:41]
Scott Galloway
Exactly. Once March 1st comes along, it's back to Big Daddy Warbucks. No, but this is what this is the existential risk to OpenAI right now. They want to be the leader. I think Sam Altman maybe correctly said there can only be one in the world of AI, but he's getting attack from above and that is big industrial strength conglomerates and tech that have a built in multibillion dollar consumer base that they can point that firehose of people at their AI offering. They're getting attack from below. And that is Chinese open weight models which are free, which by the way are technically pretty close. So the fear is the following or the bull case is that this company is an incredible product. It's growing like crazy. It's doing all these big visionary deals. It is an amazing product. I was using it every day and everybody feels like they've got to go in on the market leader in AI, which Altman has done a good job of associating brand leadership with OpenAI and ChatGPT. The risk is that before they go public in the disclosure documents that the SEC mandates, it's gonna be clear that everybody else is starting to eat their lunch. Right? Gemini continues to gain market share, that there's an entire market of people that go for the open weight free models. And people say, okay, this is a great little company, but it should be acquired by somebody not worth a trillion and a half dollars as a standalone company.
- [47:10]
Kara Swisher
Who would be the the acquirer from your perspective?
- [47:12]
Scott Galloway
No one at this point. It's too expensive.
- [47:14]
Kara Swisher
Yeah, right. I was saying that the other day.
- [47:17]
Scott Galloway
Unfortunately, it'd have to be written down a lot. And then there'd be all sorts of antitrust arguments. But he has, and he knows it, too. He's doing big deals. He's spending a ton of money. He's trying to get the best talent because there's a general belief here that there's the gold medal. This literally is when we call this Hunger Games economy. The Hunger Games is the right analogy. And that is whoever wins here gets all sorts of parades and gets to live a wonderful life. And whoever doesn't win is gonna die a slow death.
- [47:46]
Kara Swisher
Yeah.
- [47:47]
Scott Galloway
And that's the approach he's taking.
- [47:49]
Kara Swisher
You're right. I think you're right here. Absolutely. We'll see what happens. They are headed for the ipo, though. Trump and his family. This story, we cannot stress this story of corruption and the Trump family enough. He has now pulled in $4 billion linked to his presidency. Much of that comes from crypto and foreign deals that leverage his presidential status. Last year, an investment firm with ties to the U bought nearly half of the Trump family's crypto company, making the two business partners. Eric Trump signed the agreement with the firm for $500 million investment days before Trump's January 2025 inauguration. We did a chip deal with them. He recently said he found out nobody cared about his international business activity while in office. You know what? We do care. You know, this is a guy, as I say, accusation is a confession. Who went on and on about Hunter. Hunter Biden didn't have enough imagination as doing corrupt things and didn't have much pull. This is a full scale corrupt regime that is using their status to feather their nest. It's also bad for national security. All manner of things is hurtful to the United States. He does it all the time, whether he's suing the IRS for 10 billion or closing the Kennedy center because he ran that into the ground. But this is really, you know, he does. That's all jazz hands compared to what's happening here.
- [49:13]
Scott Galloway
Yeah. The Republicans thought it was an impeachable offense or required a special counsel because President Biden implicitly or explicitly used his influence such that his son, Hunter Biden, could get on the board of a Ukrainian energy company and made about four or six hundred grand. There is no reason why Hunter Biden should be on the board of any company other than his proximity to the president, even if he leveraged that contact or didn't. And there's no evidence he did. But everyone's hair was on fire. And now we have an individual who is raking in billions. And it's not only him, Witkoff's kids. And Witkoff was investing, getting people, the UAE to invest in a crypto company that is kids control. And then what do you know, A few weeks later, the sale of our most sensitive chips that are security concern for fear that the uae, who has a strong relationship but China, begins to leak that sensitive information that powers nuclear guidance systems, powers submarines. I mean, the level, I gotta give it to them. They're like, here's the problem in America, if you run a stop sign, you get shamed. If you start killing hundreds of people, there's some sort of weird leadership quality around it. It's like, don't commit it, for God's sakes. Don't commit a misdemeanor demeanor. Commit, you know, commit mass murder and be unashamed about it. And then the next day commit another crime where it all gets lost in the noise.
- [50:43]
Kara Swisher
Well, that's what he said. Found out nobody cared, especially internationally. But, you know, and then killing all those people through usaid, the millions of people who will die, I mean the kind of damage and feathering nest feathering is really quite astonishing. And that leaves out all the pardons he gives to people who are, who, who knows?
- [51:01]
Scott Galloway
I mean, I sat next to one of those guys, gives him 3 million bucks. I've said this before. If, if Louis or Alex or Alec or Nolan are four sons, I'll, I'll do, go with the older ones. If one of them fucked up and ended up in prison, I'm 100% confident that with a million to 3 million bucks, we could get him out of prison. Yeah, find, find an indirect route into a meeting with one of Trump and his acolytes and say, I'm about to buy 1 to $3 million in Trump coin, or I'm about to give you a $2 million gift for the new East West Wing. And I think within three to six months, they're out. That's where we are. And here's the thing. It creates. You're going to have more Epstein Islands. You're going to have fewer small businesses that start because they're worried about the rule of law. You know, the rich are protected by the law but not bound by it. All the rest of us are bound by the law but not protected by it. And in addition, foreign companies aren't going to want to invest in American companies for fear that the rule of law is not going to apply to American investments.
- [52:03]
Kara Swisher
That is exactly right. It's all going to be for the Trump's benefit, but not for the United States of America. That's really. You have to understand this, everybody. This is the actual game. Besides all the everything else. This is the actual game. Anyway, one more quick break. We'll be back for wins and fails.
- [52:26]
Scott Galloway
Imagine there's no football. It's not easy, right? Football is by far the dominant force in American culture. It is the only thing propping up tv. And Chuck Klosterman says one day all of that is gonna change.
- [52:41]
Kara Swisher
It's too big, its tentacles are too far.
- [52:43]
Scott Galloway
It's so wide. And when it collapses, something that size collapses hard. I'm Peter Kafka, the host of Channels, the show about what happens when media and tech collide. And you can hear my conversation with Chuck Klosterman right now. Wherever you listen to your favorite podcasts, is the fatal shooting of Alex Preddy.
- [53:03]
Kara Swisher
By federal agents in Minneapolis a moment that changes politics?
- [53:06]
Scott Galloway
Or a moment that changes what people tolerate? Trump always chickens out when he meets a force he cannot overwhelm. You cannot overwhelm 70 to 75% of America seeing these figures, hearing blood turtling justifications for the execution of the kind of American you know would be shoveling the steps outside your house. I'm Preet Bharara and this week Financial Times editor Ed Loose joins me to discuss the aftermath of the shooting and why it might mark an inflection point. The episode is out now. Search and follow Stay tuned with Preet wherever you get your podcasts.
- [53:40]
Kara Swisher
This week on Net Worth and Chill, I'm revealing the exact playbook rich people use to set their kids up for financial success and how you can do do it too, even if you're not a trust fund baby. From adding your newborn as an authorized user on your credit card to give them a near perfect credit score by the age of 18 to opening a 529 account that saves you thousands in taxes on everything from books to college tuition. Plus, I'm answering your questions about whether your debt transfers to your kids, tax credits worth thousands that new parents are missing out on, and how to give your children money completely tax free. What? Whether you're expecting, already have kids, or just want to understand how generational wealth transfer actually works, this episode will show you how to break the cycle and build a legacy. Get ready to give your kids the financial head start you wish you had. Listen wherever you get your podcasts or watch on YouTube.com YourRichBFF. Okay, Scott wins and fails. You want me to go first?
- [54:35]
Scott Galloway
You go first.
- [54:36]
Kara Swisher
Well, I was going to do the Kennedy center, but I don't really like the Kennedy Center. I never did. But he's going to close it and fix it after he ran it into the ground with his stupid minion Rick and Rall. Nobody wanted to go there, whatever. He's failed the business and so he's closing it down. It's like Trump's stake or something. I don't know if he can close it down. We'll see. But just gross. That's just a gross sidelight. The many things he's done and we'll see, we'll see what happens there. But actually I want to get more serious. Congresswoman Kelly Morrison of Minnesota posted the following on Blue Sky. My office has been flooded with reports of cruel, unsafe, unlawful cond Inside the Whipple Detention facility in Minneapolis this weekend I was finally granted access to perform oversight. And when she went in, I mean it's absolutely grotesque of how they're not just abusing these populations and they're about to go do that in Ohio, but they're abusing them once they get in there in order to get them to self deport the cruelty. Let me just tell you, all you people, people will, you will be judged someday, maybe not today, but someday this will all come out. And what you've done here is so heinous to young people. The young kid with that adorable hat did get out finally, but it was only under pressure to get him out who was taken in Minnesota and brought I think to Texas. But there's, he's just one kid and the only reason he got out is so much of the attention cause of that photograph. But there's other kids sitting there, thousands and thousands of children. And what you have done is so shameful and so horrible and I just hope there's more photographs and more for people to understand the level of depravity in what they're doing to those people who are here, most of whom are here, worked hard, have contributed to our country and it's just, it makes me sick to my stomach. For a positive thing, I really enjoyed the Grammys. I did. I watched them last night. I thought they were.
- [56:39]
Scott Galloway
Oh, did you enjoy it?
- [56:40]
Kara Swisher
Yeah, I did. There was a little. You know, I love Bad Bunny and Billie Eilish, but it wasn't too much. None of it was too much. Although President Trump is threatening to sue Trevor Noe over his Epstein joke at the Grammys. I thought he was great. Trevor Noah was great. I found it very entertaining. I thought the performances were terrific. I thought Justin Bieber was. Did a great. I mean, he was sort of naked. He looks good. He was wearing silk boxers only. And I thought that was quite beautiful. I thought Lady Gaga was amazing. Reba McEntire performed and I love Reba McEntire. So I liked it. It felt really. And it wasn't virtue signally the way the Oscars can be. I found the speeches very heartfelt and simple. They kept it simple. A lot of God loving too, by the way. But I liked it. I really enjoyed it.
- [57:25]
Scott Galloway
I stopped caring about the Grammys when Michael Stibe stopped singing and opened a health food store in Athens, Georgia. Rick Ocasek died and George Michael died I have no interest in. And Tom Petty died from an opioid overdose. Music is dead to me. Music is dead to me.
- [57:39]
Kara Swisher
They're so great.
- [57:41]
Scott Galloway
Dead to me.
- [57:42]
Kara Swisher
Sabrina Carpenter didn't get anything and I thought she was delightful also, by the way. Anyway, go.
- [57:48]
Scott Galloway
Well, I'll start with my loss or fail. I interviewed Neil Ferguson, who I really like and is a friend, but he has a narrative which I disagree with and it's a narrative that's been adopted by the Trump administration. And also, and I would argue it's just parroting a Russian talking point. And that is this, this notion that this war is unsustainable for Ukraine. It's unwinnable and they should strike the best deal they can right now. And that is the same narrative that was expectorated and vomited all over the media three years ago. And guess what? Since then, in the last two years, Russia has only increased their occupancy or their acquisition of land by 1%. A snail could literally, and this is true, move faster than the Russian army. And if you want to talk about unsustainable for somebody, this is unsustainable for Russia. And there are days where they are losing a thousand men, men a day. Their wartime economy is running out of money. So this war is unsustainable, but it's unsustainable for Russia. And this narrative that somehow that Ukraine has been backed into a corner, it needs to come up or swallow hard and accept a peace deal that is just scheduling the next war, not preventing it is bullshit. This war is unsustainable, but it's unsustainable for Russia as long as the west continues to support, push back on a murderous autocrat. And it really bothers me, this narrative of, well, Ukraine should just take the deal they can right now because this war is unsustainable. Bullshit. They have been kicking Russia in the nuts, literally. And figuratively. And they are, in my view, they are winning this war. And so this narrative from straight out of Sergey Lavrov, that it's unsustainable. It's unsustainable for Ukraine. They can't manage this. Well, guess what, folks? Folks, they seem to have put all that to rest, all those doubts for the last three and a half years. This is unsustainable for Russia. And we should start speaking as if the Ukrainian army is speaking from a position of strength, which they are.
- [59:42]
Kara Swisher
I love it. Scott, I know you like Neil Ferguson. I find him to be a contrarian for contrarian sake. And I like your contrariness better.
- [59:49]
Scott Galloway
Yeah. But Neil brings history and it's important to have this type of dialogue. And he and I again agree on almost nothing geopolitical. But I learned from him. And quite frankly, it strengthens and creates texture around my beliefs. And I think that's important.
- [60:04]
Kara Swisher
I prefer.
- [60:04]
Scott Galloway
And plus, he's a huge. He's a huge. We both are really upset about the World cup draw for Scotland. We're in the same group as Morocco and Brazil. Anyways, both he and I love Team Scotland. Anyway, my win because I'm canceling Paramount. Plus, today I wash watched all episodes of Landman. Oh, my God. I think I'm Republican now. It's literally. Whoever that guy is, he's Rupert Murdoch of entertainment. He's like all this fucking liberal crazy bullshit with all this redistribution of virtue on primetime streaming programs. I am the Fox News of scripted entertainment.
- [60:47]
Kara Swisher
You know what? He's much more complex than that, but go ahead. He's not actually.
- [60:51]
Scott Galloway
I don't think so.
- [60:52]
Kara Swisher
I think basically he's not actually.
- [60:54]
Scott Galloway
Oh, come on. This is.
- [60:55]
Kara Swisher
I'm telling you, this is a person.
- [60:57]
Scott Galloway
I'm sure you've interviewed him.
- [60:58]
Kara Swisher
No, I haven't.
- [60:59]
Scott Galloway
This is basically succession. If nobody went to college or HR was a rumor.
- [61:04]
Kara Swisher
It's a great show.
- [61:05]
Scott Galloway
And I love the fact that all the. Every female character exists solely to roll their eyes, sleep with the wrong man, or remind us that feelings are inconvenient.
- [61:15]
Kara Swisher
He's really bad on women and that.
- [61:17]
Scott Galloway
Every woman is in a state of perimenopause.
- [61:19]
Kara Swisher
Did you know that? Watch Yellowstone with the daughter. She's a hot mess.
- [61:23]
Scott Galloway
I can't do Kevin Costner. I've just never loved.
- [61:25]
Kara Swisher
I'm telling you, he loves hot mess ladies. I do like. I like his stuff, but he's a little more complex than that.
- [61:32]
Scott Galloway
But. And it makes me feel better about myself because it's like every crisis can Be solved by a phone call, a threat, or Billy Bob leaning back and explaining why women.
- [61:41]
Kara Swisher
Are you liking Demi Moore? I like her character.
- [61:43]
Scott Galloway
I don't buy that Jon Hamm would be in a relationship with her. I don't buy it. He's so good looking. He's so. God, that guy's a tall dragon.
- [61:53]
Kara Swisher
He was one with Jennifer Aniston on the Morning Show. He played an Elon Musk like character. As you know, I liked him.
- [61:57]
Scott Galloway
His career's really taken.
- [61:59]
Kara Swisher
I met him at the morning show party. He's a lovely guy, I have to say. We had a lovely chat.
- [62:03]
Scott Galloway
Mad Men is still, for me, my second, probably my second favorite scripted drama.
- [62:07]
Kara Swisher
After he is a handsome man. I will say he is a handsome.
- [62:11]
Scott Galloway
Fucking man after Breaking Bad. He's a. He's a God. He's so good looking.
- [62:14]
Kara Swisher
He's hugely tall, too. Just so you know. Very tall.
- [62:17]
Scott Galloway
Yeah. He was also great in the most recent. Recent series of or season of Fargo. That was really good.
- [62:23]
Kara Swisher
Yeah, he's a very. He's. He's. He does a lot better work than he should because he's so good looking. He could do a lot less good work.
- [62:29]
Scott Galloway
Yeah, No, I learned that an oil patch is. Everything about an oil patch. It's brutally honest there. Also, oil is unfairly maligned and it's also run by a bunch of people who've been divorced exactly once.
- [62:41]
Kara Swisher
Okay. All right.
- [62:42]
Scott Galloway
Anyways.
- [62:43]
Kara Swisher
Okay. That's your way.
- [62:45]
Scott Galloway
I love it because it gives me hope. Because it's a story. It's a story about men who are never wrong but always get laid. It's just the perfect. It's the perfect series for a man.
- [62:57]
Kara Swisher
Oh, God.
- [62:58]
Scott Galloway
And this guy is the Rupert Murdoch of scripted television. He came in, he recognized the biggest opportunity was just, you know, he left Paramount.
- [63:07]
Kara Swisher
He's at Universal now with all the virtual signalers. He likes them better.
- [63:11]
Scott Galloway
It's really.
- [63:11]
Kara Swisher
He's left. He's gone. That was one fuck up by David Ellison, I have to say. He's left to go over into the more elegant relationship with Donna Langley over there.
- [63:24]
Scott Galloway
It's Billy Bob Thornton telling us, while the oil business is the last honest thing in the world.
- [63:29]
Kara Swisher
Yeah, I know, I know, but it's just a story.
- [63:31]
Scott Galloway
Anyway, anyway, my win. I did basically 18 hours of landman this weekend.
- [63:37]
Kara Swisher
No, he did Rivalry.
- [63:38]
Scott Galloway
I am Republican now.
- [63:40]
Kara Swisher
We need you back. Watch Heated Rivalry.
- [63:42]
Scott Galloway
And I immediately made a campaign donation to Senator Ted Cruz as soon as I was done.
- [63:46]
Kara Swisher
No, you didn't.
- [63:48]
Scott Galloway
But it's entertaining.
- [63:48]
Kara Swisher
Yeah. It is entertaining. Billy Bob Sordin's fantastic. Anyway, that was good. That was really good. We want to hear from you. Send us your questions about business, tech or whatever's on your mind. Go to nymag.com pivot to submit a question for the show or call 85551, pivot. Elsewhere in the Kara and Scott universe this week and on with Kara Swisher. I spoke with Ben Collins, the CEO of the Onion. We talked about the importance of not being afraid to stand up against the Trump administration. Right now. Let's listen to a clip.
- [64:15]
Scott Galloway
The people who have caved since the start of this. Universities, news organizations, everybody who, who is like, okay, sir, what do you need? They just kept stepping on them afterwards. They just kept going.
- [64:26]
Kara Swisher
They did, they did.
- [64:27]
Scott Galloway
I'm not gonna tell, I'm not going to tell this staff to change what they're doing at all. Like they are doing. They're going as hard as they want. And if they come to me with a 50, 50 ball, I say go for it. Like, and if they come to me with a big idea, I'm like, let's find funding, let's find a sponsor, let's out find a thing to that to make sure that this thing can happen.
- [64:46]
Kara Swisher
And Scott, before we go, we want to hear one more thing. Let's listen to a voicemail we got. Hey there, Kara. I heard the. I heard you talk about the message this woman left on your voicemail. What a cunt. Really. I mean, you are fantastic. I'm in with love.
- [65:09]
Scott Galloway
Love.
- [65:11]
Kara Swisher
And if you weren't already married, I would be courting you. So smart, so ruthless, so truthful, so refreshing. Love you, love you, love you. Scott, you are a smart ass. I can listen to some of the stuff you say and I agree with some of the stuff you say, but honestly, dude, some of it is just like. Anyway, Kara, love you, Scott. You're lucky you're working with this woman. That's just for me.
- [65:48]
Scott Galloway
Yeah. So let me guess who picked that clip. No, I love that. Look at how happy you are.
- [65:54]
Kara Swisher
Well, because the other woman said I'm a bag of shit or whatever she called.
- [65:58]
Scott Galloway
It's like when my ex wife and I decided to get therapy and my therapist within 10 seconds is like, you're selfish and have unreasonable expectations of what marriage is about. And I'm like, well, I'm enjoying you this. I'm enjoying this.
- [66:09]
Kara Swisher
Oh, that's because Michelle Obama liked you. I just said it was very funny. It was a reaction that. Anyway, thank you for that.
- [66:15]
Scott Galloway
So what if I want to have sex with other women?
- [66:18]
Kara Swisher
My God, I love our listeners. Anyway.
- [66:21]
Scott Galloway
Come on. You love that one.
- [66:23]
Kara Swisher
Some people hate you and love me. And some people love you and hate me. It's perfect. It's great. Some people love us both.
- [66:28]
Scott Galloway
Something for everybody.
- [66:29]
Kara Swisher
Yeah, something for everybody.
- [66:30]
Scott Galloway
Sweet or savory?
- [66:32]
Kara Swisher
I enjoy our listeners. Anyway, that's the show. Thanks for listening to kids.
- [66:36]
Scott Galloway
Look how happy you are. Look at you. Look at. Look. I've never seen. You were giddy. You're giddy, you're giddy.
- [66:45]
Kara Swisher
You know what? I was so happy.
- [66:47]
Scott Galloway
I can't believe you're actually worried about that.
- [66:50]
Kara Swisher
Why not? It's like.
- [66:51]
Scott Galloway
It's not that interesting.
- [66:52]
Kara Swisher
So many people are in those fucking files. You had to look.
- [66:55]
Scott Galloway
I stay home and I watch Euphoria. That's the most sexual experience I had.
- [66:58]
Kara Swisher
I think it was a good call on my part. Anyway, you weren't. I'm very. Of course you aren't. Of course you aren't. Anyway, you have very much better judgment than people think. Okay.
- [67:08]
Scott Galloway
Oh, yeah. Thanks. Thanks for that. Good addition. Good asterisk there. All is forgiven, Cara.
- [67:13]
Kara Swisher
That's the show. Thanks for listening to Pivot and be sure to like and subscribe to our YouTube channel. We'll be back on Friday. Scott, read us out.
- [67:21]
Scott Galloway
Today's show is produced by Lara Naim and Soy Marcus and Taylor Griffin. Ernie and her Todd engineered this episode. Rich Shibley edited the video. Thanks also to Jibros Mia Sivero and Dan Shalon. Nishat Karo's Vox Media's executive producer of podcast. Make sure to follow Pivot on your favorite podcast platform. Thanks for listening to Pivot from your magazine and Vox Media. You can subscribe to the magazine nymag.com pod we'll be back later this week for another breakdown of all things tech and business. Action absorbs anxiety. Resist and unsubscribe.com.