GameStop's eBay Bid, AI and the Midterms, and Senate Prediction Market Ban

Summary

Pivot Podcast Summary

Episode: GameStop's eBay Bid, AI and the Midterms, and Senate Prediction Market Ban
Date: May 5, 2026
Hosts: Kara Swisher & Scott Galloway

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Episode Overview

This episode of Pivot dives into several hot-button topics at the intersection of tech, business, and politics. Kara Swisher and Scott Galloway bring their trademark banter and incisive commentary to:

• GameStop’s headline-grabbing (but dubious) bid to buy eBay
• The implications of AI regulation and political spending ahead of the U.S. midterms
• The Senate’s new ban on prediction market trading for its members
• Apple’s financial powerhouse status and whether a major AI acquisition is imminent
• The Pentagon’s latest moves to turn the military into an AI-first force — and what it means for the big AI contenders
• Weekly “Wins & Fails” – tackling decorum on company boards and the public’s deep distrust of “brand AI”

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1. Met Gala, Billionaires & Public Perception

00:00–09:12

• Kara and Scott open with banter on the Met Gala, with Scott revealing he was invited, likely due to social media prominence rather than substance.
  • Scott jokes: “I think some intern somewhere said podcasting, what about that crazy professor?” (03:33)
• Discussion turns to Jeff Bezos and his partner’s public profile:
  • Kara: “They’re not quiet wealth. ... I think there is an argument to be made at this moment in time, which is keep it to yourself.” (05:36)
  • Scott: “Vogue has so much riz and no money. And the Bezoses have just so much money and not a lot of riz. ... Bezos is pretty self-actualized and Honey Badger don’t give a shit.” (04:06)
• Both reflect on how ostentatious displays of wealth feel out of touch as gas prices and economic anxieties rise.

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2. GameStop’s eBay Bid: Meme Stock Madness

09:12–17:43

• GameStop’s CEO Ryan Cohen’s $55.5 billion unsolicited offer for eBay is dissected, with audio from Andrew Ross Sorkin’s incredulous CNBC interview:
  • Sorkin: “I’m just trying to understand where the rest of the money would come from.” (09:53)
• Scott calls the bid “off Broadway theater, not strategy” and notes Cohen’s compensation is tied to pumping up GameStop’s stock price.
  • Scott: “This is just so fucking stupid and such a waste of oxygen.” (11:25)
  • “The stock they would have to offer... would immediately go into a downward spiral.” (12:11)
• Kara draws parallels with prediction markets: “Only the top 0.1% make money, everyone else loses.” (11:01)
• Both hosts agree that meme stocks and prediction markets often act as a con, preying on less sophisticated retail investors, and discuss whether regulatory intervention is necessary.

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3. Supreme Court & the Abortion Pill

17:43–24:02

• Supreme Court temporarily blocks the ban on mail-order abortion pill mifepristone.
  • Kara: “Everyone deserves healthcare that’s guided by science, not politics.” (18:22)
  • Scott: “This is not protecting the people who need government and laws the most. There is no medical, no moral, no, in my opinion, reason to do this.” (20:33)
• The hosts explore the intersection of law, equity, and how anti-abortion efforts disproportionately harm poor women.
• Scott stresses broader social solutions: “If you’re serious about reducing the number of abortions, ... we need a new generation of more responsible, economically viable young men.” (22:32)

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4. AI and the 2026 Midterms

24:56–35:43

• AI regulation and campaign funding heat up, mirroring past crypto lobbying.
  • Kara highlights Super PACs: “AI Super PACs are taking a page out of the crypto playbook... spending millions to influence elections.” (24:56)
  • Pro-AI PACs (backed by Andreessen Horowitz, Greg Brockman) versus PACs for AI regulation (Chris Larsen/Anthropic).
  • Senate Judiciary moves to require age verification for AI chatbots and bans minors from using AI companions.
  • Senate unanimously bans prediction market trading for lawmakers and staff.
    • Schumer: “We must never allow Congress to turn into a casino.” (25:39)
• Scott predicts “data centers” will become ground zero for the AI battle, as regular Americans see only electric bill hikes, not opportunity:
  • “The brand AI has just taken an absolute nosedive... only the wealthy are excited about AI.” (30:08)
• Kara: “No matter how much money they spend, people are like... these are villains now.” (34:05)
• Both hosts believe deep public suspicion of AI and prediction markets will shape 2026 politics more than campaign spending.

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5. Apple’s Earnings & AI Strategy

42:32–49:37

• Apple smashes records with $111B in quarterly revenue, up 17% YoY; iPhone and services drive growth.
  • Scott: “Run through the tape, high five... nice last quarter for Tim Cook.” (43:20)
  • Announcement of $100B share buybacks signals financial maturity.
• Rumors swirl about a major Apple AI acquisition (e.g., Perplexity).
  • Kara: “They need to have some ability to do [AI]... It’s integral to their services.” (46:50)
  • Scott is skeptical: “Apple’s culture is so strong... they don’t like acquired companies.”
  • Both agree that Apple needs internal AI competence, even if it doesn’t launch a consumer AI service.
• Apple’s future: Continue being the gatekeeper and “toll” for the world’s top consumer base, possibly by auctioning “default” LLM spots to the highest bidder.

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6. Pentagon’s AI Arms Race & Anthropic Showdown

49:37–57:35

• Pentagon partners with Amazon, Microsoft, Nvidia, Oracle, Google, but not Anthropic; tensions over “kill decisions” in AI.
  • Kara: “I don't trust [the Pentagon] at all... it's probably too chaotic to have all of them there on some level.” (52:35)
  • Anthropic, led by Dario Amodei, gains stature by refusing to allow its systems to be used for autonomous lethal purposes.
  • Scott: “If you really believe this [AI] is more powerful than nuclear weapons, shouldn’t you... be government controlled?” (54:14)
  • Both foresee a Democratic administration finally imposing real common-sense regulations on AI.

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7. Wins and Fails

60:21–70:13

Scott's Fail

• GameStop Board of Directors: “…have a fiduciary responsibility... when you make these ridiculous offers… you’re just in some weird attempt to ignite another meme craze. … It’s just irresponsible and reckless.” (60:24)

Scott's Win

• Senator & University President Ben Sasse: “He is such a... the best of conservative values. ... Couching it as he struggles with pancreatic cancer. It’s so eloquent and so moving.” (62:46) Mentions Sasse’s perspective and dignity, and how it inspired Scott personally.

Kara's Fail / Win

• Tucker Carlson NYT Interview: “Lulu Garcia Navarro ... did a great job pressing him back. ... He denied wondering whether Trump is the Antichrist. Lulu played it, and then he denied it again.” (66:46)
• Success of non-AI movies (Devil Wears Prada 2, Michael Jackson biopic): “...they show Hollywood at their very best. ... There’s not a stitch of fucking AI anywhere. ... People don’t like brand AI, they like brand people.” (68:35)

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8. Memorable Quotes & Moments

• On GameStop’s bid:
  • Scott: “This is using financial markets and the press as... you got a trip to the circus in Covid with your meme stock adventure.” (14:12)
• On AI’s tarnished reputation:
  • Kara: “It goes back to the Bezos thing... They are villains now... People are just deeply, deeply distrustful.” (34:05)
  • Scott: "This is the worst managed brand in a long time." (38:57)
• On the Pentagon/Anthropic standoff:
  • Scott: “All of these guys are claiming this is more powerful than nuclear weapons. We don’t have private venture-backed companies making nuclear bombs.” (54:12)
  • Kara: “Yes. Yes. Yes.” (54:25)
• On abortion policy:
  • Scott: “The anti-abortion movement is not a war on women, it’s a war on poor women.” (19:14)

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9. Show/Media Recommendations

• Shorzy (Canadian hockey series) — Scott’s pick for Kara
• Running Point (Kate Hudson) — Kara’s latest binge
• America Actually (upcoming episode preview): “Building a document that will protect American democracy.” (60:13)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 09:12 – GameStop’s eBay Bid Breakdown
• 17:43 – Supreme Court’s Abortion Pill Decision
• 24:56 – AI/Prediction Markets in Midterms
• 42:32 – Apple Earnings & AI Strategy
• 49:37 – Pentagon’s AI “Arms Race,” Anthropic Refusal
• 60:21 – Wins & Fails Segment

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Tone & Style

• Punchy, irreverent, unfiltered: Direct language, memorable analogies (Bezos as “Honey Badger;” GameStop CEO on “a ketamine trip”).
• Banter & chemistry: The hosts rib each other while digging into substance.
• Emphasis on public accountability: Scorn for out-of-touch billionaires and manipulative meme stock/tactics.
• Nuanced about regulation vs. innovation: Urge for balance between tech progress and public interest, especially around AI.

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This episode blends sharp analysis, skepticism of Silicon Valley’s motives, and confrontation of the human consequences underlying financial/tech drama. It’s a must-listen for anyone tracking the power struggles shaping tech, money, and democracy in 2026.

Transcript

[Kara Swisher]

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[Scott Galloway]

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[Kara Swisher]

Support for this show comes from Harvey AI. The future of law is agentic. Not just tools that assist, but AI agents that navigate complex matters. That's why Harvey created agents that can do the work from end to end. They build a plan, pull from the secure data sources, run sub agents in parallel and draft work product ready for your review so you can delegate work and own the judgment. Trusted by more than 60% of the Am Law 100 and leading Fortune 500 legal teams. Harvey is an AI operating system designed specifically for legal work. Harvey AI tailored for law. Learn more at Harvey AI. Scott, stop making sense. Please stop. Hi everyone. This is Pivot from New York magazine and the Vox Media podcast network. I'm Kara Swisher.

[Scott Galloway]

And I'm Scott Galloway.

[Kara Swisher]

So, are you going to the Met Ball?

[Scott Galloway]

I was invited.

[Kara Swisher]

Why were you invited? I'm sorry to ask that question.

[Scott Galloway]

I acknowledge I was in the Devil

[Kara Swisher]

Wears Prada, which, may I say, as I predicted. What happened?

[Scott Galloway]

Oh, God. Are we talking?

[Kara Swisher]

Is this your new $233 million globally? But why? Tell me why you were invited to the Met College.

[Scott Galloway]

I'm still not sure. I just. I think it's because I've talked a lot about and got a lot of social media activity when I went to the Vanity Fair thing. So I think, yeah, fuck I don't know, I think someone. I think some intern somewhere said podcasting. What about that crazy professor? I don't. I'm not sure a lot.

[Kara Swisher]

They tried to be your pal, right? Weren't they trying to like, stuck up to you for a minute and a half?

[Scott Galloway]

I don't know. People are pretty nice.

[Kara Swisher]

No, the Bezos people. Bezos and his lady friend.

[Scott Galloway]

Oh, I like them. I met them. I mean, I don't know them, but you've had more interaction with them than I have. But I find them to be lovely. I was invited. I think I told you this. I was invited to a small dinner with him and another friend and I said no. A, I don't like dinners. And two, I don't, you know, two, I don't like people. And three, I don't. I don't want to know these people because I know what's going to happen. We talk about the slot. I'm going to like them and I'm going to stop speaking my mind.

[Kara Swisher]

You like everybody. You have a truly low bar for people.

[Scott Galloway]

It is a pretty low bar.

[Kara Swisher]

I'm pretty easy to say. I'm pretty nice. I'm like, yeah, no, I'm pretty.

[Scott Galloway]

I'm pretty.

[Kara Swisher]

I think they're getting the shit kicked out of them. You know, there's protests and like billboards. Very. Some funny things. There was, you know, like a shopping cart out front with a bunch of empty bottles and said, bathroom, VIP bathroom. They're projecting things onto the buildings nearby. They kind of hijack the whole thing and it's kind of, I don't know, graspy. And thirsty. I find them.

[Scott Galloway]

It's a perfect fit. Vogue. Vogue has so much riz and no money. And the Bezos have just so much money and not a lot of rizz. It's a marriage made in heaven. I get the sense. I don't know this, but I get the sense Bezos is pretty self actualized and Honey Badger don't give a shit. I think he's just living his best life. Quite frankly. I don't. I don't know him.

[Kara Swisher]

Oh, I have a very different.

[Scott Galloway]

Oh, you might know more than me. I don't.

[Kara Swisher]

I think they're tone deaf to what the what? What's going on right now? Gas prices nearing $5. I think they are always tone deaf.

[Scott Galloway]

They're unaffected gas prices. Well, I get it, but that's hilarious.

[Kara Swisher]

No, I don't want to.

[Scott Galloway]

Oh, no, honey, we need to cut back. No more second yacht.

[Kara Swisher]

They're not quiet wealth. Let's just say, I think that selling his yacht. He's selling his yacht. It's ridic.

[Scott Galloway]

I think this is more about. Anyways, I get the sense the guy. I mean, this is the journey of all of them. All of them were, like, captain of the chess club. They weren't getting laid a lot. They've worked their asses off. They're very smart, they're very talented. They've been working nonstop. And one day, the day of the ipo, they went into a conference room, this nice, fairly unattractive guy who had no sexual currency their whole life. And they come out and they're the sexiest man alive.

[Kara Swisher]

I know. I've had these discussions, and they go ape shit.

[Scott Galloway]

And I don't, you know, and, and I, with, with respect to Bezos, I, I, I get the sense you know more about this than I do. I get the sense he's having a great time.

[Kara Swisher]

I don't know. I don't know. I just think. I think there's leaders in our. I, I'm. I'm more for the quiet. If they're going to be very wealthy, the quiet. There is an argument to be made at this moment in time in it, which, which is keep it to yourself. Keep it to yourself.

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah. Agreed.

[Kara Swisher]

So I don't think. I think this doesn't play well. And I know they don't care, but they look, like, ridiculous. They look like Tom and Daisy. I'm sorry. They just do in the Gatsby. And it's not a good look right now because things are really shifting. And I don't mean they have to pretend they're, like, living on the prairie with, like, one shovel and, you know, in a bucket. Like, that's not what I'm talking about. It's just a. I think the MacKenzie Scotts, Lorraine Powell jobs, the Melinda Gates, you know, they speak out appropriately. They're not showing off. I just. I just. I don't think it's gonna end well. Anyway, we'll see. I'm coming to London, by the way. I'll be there tomorrow morning.

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah, I know. You have some dinner, a big dinner.

[Kara Swisher]

And, yes, you were invited. It's a small dinner, and you will refuse to come. But that's okay.

[Scott Galloway]

Well, I was invited to the Met Ball. You think I said no to the Met Ball? But I'm coming to your dinner.

[Kara Swisher]

Yes, I do, because who the fuck cares about the Met Ball? What would you wear to the Met Ball?

[Scott Galloway]

Speaking of which, you know, the idea. I get anxiety just thinking about it. That was Such an easy no for me.

[Kara Swisher]

I would wrap myself in, like, oil and Glad Wrap.

[Scott Galloway]

Oh, God.

[Kara Swisher]

That's what I do.

[Scott Galloway]

I just ate.

[Kara Swisher]

What could. What would you wear? Seriously, what would you. If you had to think of some fantastic costume?

[Scott Galloway]

I have. I literally have absolutely no idea. I don't.

[Kara Swisher]

You love to dress up. You dressed up as, like, at Halloween. You always dress up.

[Scott Galloway]

Oh, no, I love dressing up in something outrageous. I love going as. As. As. As Deadpool or Starship Commander. Jean Luc Picard. Huge crowd pleaser. I went as Luke Skywalker.

[Kara Swisher]

Not, like, for a costume. Met costume.

[Scott Galloway]

I went as Ted Lasso. Any opportunity to put on a wig and be someone different, I absolutely love that. But to try and look good.

[Kara Swisher]

Well, you don't have to. Not all of them do. Sometimes they look kind of crazy.

[Scott Galloway]

That was the easiest no in the world. That's like the last thing. At some point. At some point, I lose all academic credibility.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah.

[Scott Galloway]

And you know, something that gets much closer to that point is showing up the fucking fat ball.

[Kara Swisher]

I wish you would go and wear an I don't care, do you shirt. Like the Melania shirt.

[Scott Galloway]

I don't like that either. I think if you get invited to something like that, you play along and you'd be a good, gracious guest. You know, I don't think you wear a dress saying tax the rich. I thought that was.

[Kara Swisher]

I agree with you. I think that's stupid. You don't go. But you should go, because I need to understand it. I need you to go in there because I would never do so to you.

[Scott Galloway]

I'm in London. And plus, I really want to. I really want to hang out with you and your friends here.

[Kara Swisher]

Not true. You are invited. Not true. Don't say I don't invite you. You are.

[Scott Galloway]

I literally have nothing to do. I'm home alone. I've got the boys. This year, you're off partying with your fancy friends from the Devil Wears Prada? No, I'm home alone with my dogs.

[Kara Swisher]

No. All right.

[Scott Galloway]

That's all I gotta say.

[Kara Swisher]

It's a small dinner. You're invited. If you'd like to come, it would be great. Okay. If not, I'm gonna find you and see your house in Utah. I'm shocked.

[Scott Galloway]

You're not staying here?

[Kara Swisher]

No, they have me at the hotel next to the thing. But I would usually. But when I come back, I will. Are you staying there now? What's the deal?

[Scott Galloway]

I don't know. I'm.

[Kara Swisher]

Oh, okay.

[Scott Galloway]

The honest answer is a monkey wrench has been thrown into our plans because you told me that my youngest, who has a habit of doing this, likes where he is, is all of a sudden getting A's and anyways, I'm gonna spend much more time in the U.S. a lot of moving parts here, but

[Kara Swisher]

I won't bother with this earth. Let me know anyway, I will come by and find you somehow I'll break into your house. Anyway, let's get to the news. This is a weird one. As we record Gamestop and ebay, stocks are responding to real train wreck of an interview from the GameStop CEO. What a surprise. Ryan Cohen, who's somewhat of a big moron sometimes when he talks, announced the deal of the century over the weekend. A $55.5 billion unsolicited offer to buy eBay at $125 a chair, pitching it as a future rival to Amazon. But then he went on CNBC Squawk Box where our good friend Andrew Ross Sorkin, our famous Canadian friend, pointed out the math wasn't mathing. It was amazingly awkward. Let's listen.

[Scott Galloway]

You have $9 billion on your balance sheet, arguably if you're, if you're providing effectively all of your stock and then, and then the cash that gets you to 20. You have this letter from TD that's another 20. We're now at 40, but we're still off by. Call it 16 and the 20. As far as I understand, while it's considered a highly confident letter, meaning TD saying they're highly confident that they would provide the financing, it's not locked financing now we'll see what happens. I hear you. I understand that. I'm just trying to understand where the rest of the money would come from.

[Kara Swisher]

Half cash, half stock.

[Scott Galloway]

I hear you. I'm just saying that that math doesn't get you to the, to the price that you're offering.

[Kara Swisher]

It got more and more awkward after that. This is just, this is a meme stock. This guy is such a moron. He's always trying to get that stupid stock up the game stock thing and take advantage of people. So I don't know, reminds me of the story about Polymarket and Kalshi. Only the top whatever, 0.1% make money and everyone else loses. But your thoughts on this ridiculousness? I love Andrew.

[Scott Galloway]

This is. Well, first off, Andrew did a great job. I think Andrew is one of those. You're like this too. It is very difficult to ask really piercing, hard questions to make people look stupid while remaining dignified and not coming across as an. And Andrew's able to do that. You're able to do that. This is off off Broadway theater, not strategy. This is just so fucking stupid and such a waste of oxygen. And a CEO who has I looked into this, a compensation strategy that says if you can get GameStop to 100 billion, you get 35 billion in a Musk like compensation strategy. So he's trying to memeify his stock again. So this is noise. It doesn't pass the most basic smell test. First off, there's a scale mismatch. Ebay has a 30 to $40 billion enterprise. GameStop doesn't have the balance sheet to do that without massive dilution or leverage. And the stock they would have to offer, they'd have to issue so much stock that the stock would immediately go into a downward spiral.

[Kara Swisher]

Correct.

[Scott Galloway]

There's no way they can do this. The strategic fit is thin where both. Commerce isn't a strategy. Ebay is a two sided marketplace. With decades of liquidity and tens of millions of customers. GameStop is still figuring out what the fuck it wants to be other than trying to become a meme stock. And, and as Andrew was pointing out, the financing reality here is nothing but a bad ayahuasca trip. Even a partial bid would require issuing a ton of equity. See above massive decline in the stock. That's effectively asking shareholders to fund a ketamine trip. So what's left here? There's nothing here but signaling to retail investors. He's trying to say we're bold, we're swinging, start taking, get someone on Reddit, get Roaring Kitty fired up so I can get in a rational compensation for not actually adding any fucking intrinsic value to the market. What he said is we're a melting ice cube. And he's also, in my opinion, this has backfired. By the way, GameStop stock as we record down 9% today. This is not only I blame the board here, board of directors is supposed to be fiduciary.

[Kara Swisher]

Is there one? I mean that's a fair point.

[Scott Galloway]

But this should never have even been allowed. Real acquisitions, the real work is done behind the scenes. And if you're going to make a hostile bid for a company, you show up with your financing locked and loaded and it's done. And if you have to go hostile because they reject your initial offer, this should be a one sentence response from the board of ebay. Come on, you are not a serious people, period. That's it. So this makes a headline. This is using financial markets and the press as you're taking them for clowns. Because you got a trip to the circus in Covid with your Meme stock adventure. This is.

[Kara Swisher]

Well, he's trying to get it going again. It's like that Wall Street Journal piece about who's benefiting from these prediction markets. And if you don't know who the sucker in the room is, it's probably you. This is not a real thing. It was showing who makes profits. And it's a small group of people who make all the profits. Everyone else lose is thousands and thousands, whoever's using it. And so it's, you know, you're a sucker. It's just like, I don't know why this is legal, this kind of nonsense. I just don't.

[Scott Galloway]

Now it's on 10%. You're allowed to. I don't know if it should be illegal. Here's the bottom line. The market is doing its job. They say, oh, remember GameStop, okay? The CEO's a fucking idiot, and he clearly has no fiduciary oversight. And it's taken his stock down 10% today. One day, Right?

[Kara Swisher]

Except this has gone on for a long time, this nonsense. And people have benefited just like they are doing over on these predictions market. The certain people who are a little smarter, you know, supposedly, like, I think Chamath was in there. Remember when it was going up and up and up. GameStop, it just feels like they're just taking poor people's money. Like, it just is so grotesque that

[Scott Galloway]

what they're doing here, I think the Meme Stock movement, I hated it. I got dragged on the Internet because I said young men should spend less time on their phone. And trading with this was just stupid. I do think a lot. I'd be curious to know. I mean, quite frankly, the Meme stock movement, the whole gestalt of it was stick it to the man, stick it to rich people.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah. But it never. And then it became about a con, right?

[Scott Galloway]

And when you have the Winklevi telling you to stick it to the man, it means you're about to be impaled as a retail investor.

[Kara Swisher]

Exactly.

[Scott Galloway]

And so I agree with you that anyone. This is just pure gambling. It's not speculation. And the reality is, for younger people or people doing this, if you want to have some fun, it's like Vegas, fine, have at it. But the thing is, you got to stare at your phone all fucking day because the moves are so wild here. But this is in my opinion, and I don't know if there should be regulation here. It's free speech. But the question is, should you be able To. Should you be able to have this kind of impact on the markets? Which I don't think it has. When you make offers that are not in any way realistic. In other words, is this market manipulation? Is it trying to do something right?

[Kara Swisher]

That's what I mean. Yeah.

[Scott Galloway]

With absolutely no serious intent of. I wonder what's happened to ebay stock price. God, that's a company that's.

[Kara Swisher]

Let's just thank Andrew, our favorite Canadian, Andrew Ross Sorkin, for, like, slapping this guy. He's really polite. I'd be like. I'd be like. At this point, after he says, half cash, have stock. I go, you fucking moron. That would be my next line. He's like, the math doesn't work.

[Scott Galloway]

EBay stocks up 5%. That's really interesting.

[Kara Swisher]

Well. Well, that. You know, that's been a long, sort of troubled company. Right. It seems like an opportunity for someone. Anyway, we'll see.

[Scott Galloway]

It's a great brand. Everybody knows it. Yeah.

[Kara Swisher]

I wrote one of the first stories about it. I remember meeting with the venture capitalists. They were at. What's that firm? Benchmark. It was all the handsome Benchmark men. It was me across from six tall white men.

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah, very tall.

[Kara Swisher]

And they were telling me about ebay. And I know Pierre a little bit, who I like very much.

[Scott Galloway]

You found him. He's a nice man.

[Kara Swisher]

Anyway, it's had a rocky. It sort of missed a lot of turns. In any case, let's move on. The Supreme Court just temporarily blocked a lower court's ban on the abortion pill mifepressone being sent through the mail. Two pharmaceutical companies had filed an emergency appeal, warning the lower court's ruling could create chaos and leave patients around the country in limbo. Medication is now the method used in nearly two thirds of abortions in the United States. The FDA approved the drug in 2000. Experts say it's safe and effective. We're gonna be talking more about the midterms in a bit, but is this a fight that Trump, the Republicans, wanna have right now? As Melinda French Gates said on Threads, everyone deserves healthcare that's guided by science, not politics. Melinda for the win. FTW thoughts?

[Scott Galloway]

Well, I'm just gonna refer to it as an M Tone. M Tone is an enormous breakthrough. It's used by millions of patients worldwide. It's one of the most studied and safest medications on the market. Serious complications are very rare. The safety profile is comparable or safer than many common prescriptions. It's effective. It reduces the need for more invasive procedures. In all that, it expands access, especially in underserved areas, earlier care, safer outcomes. It's consistent with medical authority and standards. The legal consistency argument doesn't hold up here. Other medications with higher risk profiles remain legal singling. This one is often just inconsistent.

[Kara Swisher]

Well, it's because it's working. The anti abortion activists, that's why they

[Scott Galloway]

focused on again, this is what is so mendacious and un American. Rich people don't need government. I have benefited enormously from standing on the shoulders of other people and taxpayers. Assisted lunch, University of California rights, rule of law, the sec. All these things I benefited from. Now that I have wealth, I don't need the government. I have my own transportation, I have my own security, I have my own schools, I have my own healthcare. The people who need government the most are the most vulnerable among us. And just when the government needs to step in and protect a 15 year old non white woman in the south from something that could impoverish her for her lifetime, traumatize her, put her in real serious health risk, that's who they go after. I've even said the anti abortion movement is not a war on women, it's a war on poor women. This is who needs this? Who Is this a breakthrough for the people who don't have the resources or quite frankly the sophistication to get on a plane and go to a clinic to get an abortion in a state where it's legal and then they sustain

[Kara Swisher]

them after they're born?

[Scott Galloway]

They can make this illegal. You and I would have no problem getting it. None. This is government at its worst. This is not protecting the people who need government and laws the most. There is no medical, no moral, no, in my opinion, reason to do this.

[Kara Swisher]

You get why they want no abortions whatsoever?

[Scott Galloway]

No, I get that. But when you. But here's the bottom line. They want abortions, but only on the down low for if and when it happens to one of their friends. What they, they're, you know, they're, they're very like, you're not into abortion, then don't have an abortion. But I think you would find that one of the reasons that people are a lot of people, especially wealthy, anti abortion people have no empathy for this is they know if shit ever gets real for them or anyone in their family, they can figure it out. And so I find efforts to do away with this drug is a gift.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, well, the Supreme Court has just temporarily though. This is just a.

[Scott Galloway]

Well, my understanding is as we were speaking just a couple hours ago, they've temporarily halted the band or block the ban.

[Kara Swisher]

But this also goes a temporary block.

[Scott Galloway]

This also goes back to, you know, what I think of a lot about young men and the number one reason a lot of. I think it's most women who have terminated pregnancy go on to have children. One of the top reasons stated by women as to why they terminate a pregnancy is lack of partner support. And so if you're really serious about reducing the number of pregnancies terminated, then we need economic policies and we need more men my age to get involved in young men's life and instill a set of values such that we produce more economically and emotionally viable men.

[Kara Swisher]

This is true. They don't like them once they're born, Scott. They don't like them. They don't like these people once they're born.

[Scott Galloway]

Well, that's a different issue. What I'm saying is. Well, I get that, but we're talking past each other right now. I'm talking about if you were serious about reducing the number of abortions, you would figure out a way such that there were women who felt they had more reliable partners. If you want more kids and you want fewer abortions, we need to produce a new generation of more responsible, economically viable young men. And you're right. The same people who are most rabidly anti abortion tend to be the same ones who don't want universal childcare or

[Kara Swisher]

give them money or they disdain them or they're, you know, everything. It's just. It makes no sense. It makes no. And then they're the most for the death penalty penalty. And you're sort of like, where is the consistency here in any way?

[Scott Galloway]

Well, that joke. If you want to save someone from the death penalty, just shove them up in women's uterus.

[Kara Swisher]

God. Oh, my God. I can't believe I laughed at that. That's kind of funny. Anyway, let's look. I hope it's not just a temporary ban. I hope the Supreme Court, you know, gets slapped since they've had some very dicey and horrible rulings recently around the Voting Rights Acts. But this is something that is just ridiculous. It's bad for companies. It's bad for people. The abortion foes have won enough, I feel like. But they won't. They won't. They'll keep going. Okay, let's go on a quick break. When we come back, how AI is upending the midterms.

[Scott Galloway]

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[Kara Swisher]

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I'm always shocked about how much information is there about me and how easy it is to delete me using the really good dashboard. Last year, the New York Times wirecutter named Delete Me their time top pick for data removal services. So what are you waiting for? Take control of your data and keep your private life private by signing up for Deleteme now at a special discount for our listeners. Get 20 off your Delete Me plan when you go to JoinDeleteMe.com pivot and use a promo code pivot at checkout. The only way to get 20 off is to go to JoinDeleteMe.com pivot and enter code pivot at checkout. That's JoinDeleteMe.com pivot code pivot. Scott we're back with six months to go until the midterms. AI regulation has become a hot button issue and the money is pouring in. AI super pacs are taking a page out of the crypto playbook, which worked rather well, spending millions to influence elections. They're backing both Democratic and Republican candidates, whoever is more friendly to AI and big tech. The biggest pack Leading the Future is funded in part by Henryssen Horowitz and OpenAI Code co founder Greg Brockman. On the other end, there's the Public first action, a pact backed by $20 million donation from Anthropic and tech billionaire Chris Larson is putting up 3.5 million in new York to back Democratic congressional candidate Alex Boris, who supports AI regulation. I was texting with Chris about this the other day and also Alex, let's take a look at the ad that Larson's pack just launched. Oscar, what is wrong? You think you know what they're watching, but with AI, they can land on anything. Violence, child sexual abuse and predators who would be against AI safety laws. OpenAI, the company behind ChatGPT, they're attacking Alex Boris for writing the toughest AI safety law in the country. Don't let OpenAI shut down child. Child safety you can push back is responsible for the content of this advertising. It's an interesting ad and from a marketing perspective, it's an interesting way to counter. Child safety is the number one thing that people are all bipartisan about. And also AI increasingly. And just for speaking of AI legislation. The Senate Judiciary Committee just advanced a bill that would require AI companies to implement age verification process. It would also ban minors from using AI chatbot companions. I'm not sure this will, will pass. And at the same time, the Senate just unanimously passed a ban on prediction market trading for senators and their staffers, effective immediately. Smart Kelshi and Polymarket both praised the Senate's move. The Senate Minority leader Schumer called it a no brainer, saying we must never allow Congress to turn into a casino. He urged the White House to follow suit. Of course, the White House has already warned staff about betting on the Iran war, but I doubt they'll go for a full bid. And again, the White House is probably in the way of any of this AI, even the safety stuff passing because they're in the pocket of the AI industry. So thoughts on this effort by Chris, who was. Chris was a tech billionaire at a company. He's really interesting. He's been very involved in San Francisco politics. But this was interesting for him to sort of go against these pro AI packs which are led by essentially Marc Andreessen and his gang, his mob. Thoughts on this?

[Scott Galloway]

Well, he's feeling a vacuum. It feels as if there should be federal legislation. What I find most interesting is I think that the entity or the part, the touchstone or the visible object or the cudgel, whatever you want to call it, is going to be data centers. And what's interesting about AI is that your approval of AI, the two brands that have registered the greatest brand destruction have been the US abroad over the last few years. We used to be the enforcers protecting people of the west from rogue nations. Now we are that rogue nation. And AI, the brand AI has just taken an absolute nosedive because the only population or the cohort where AI has over 50% approval is people making over $200,000 a year. Because if you're wealthy, you see AI as powering your 401k, an opportunity to make money. You may use it at work, you feel pretty secure about your job. But what a lot of lower income people think is that AI, the only visible representation of AI is a data center that's going to send their electricity rates up, while private companies that they don't even have access nor the money to participate in boom in value. I think data centers are going to be ground zero for this battle.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, it's one of them. I think a lot of it. I think people just have a real antipathy towards AI at this point, even if it's. It's a good thing in some ways. Right. I think they've really, you know, these packs, they'll work day and night. The same thing with the crypto industry, you know, which had sort of a faint distasteful aroma to it and it real. But it still was effective with all the millions they're spending all over. And by the way, Musk is part of this. They're all trying to stop it. It's interesting that anthropics on the other side are Chris Larson's on the other side. So there's a lot of of tech billionaires lining up to stop that and it's not good for anyone. Alex Boris is a really interesting candidate. He's in that part of Manhattan. I think it's Jack Schlossberg, George Conway. There's a whole pack of people running in that area. And Alex is trying to sort of stick his head up as the Mr. AI regulator. But it'll be an interesting case of who wins here. A lot of people think the candidates or the party that is sort of sort of vaguely anti AI has a better chance in the midterms. I don't know if you think that's so, but there is legislation. It's just that this administration is just not going to pass any of these laws because they're getting so much money from the AI companies. I don't see them. The only people they ever have at the White House are AI people. Never have a critic, never have anybody who's against it.

[Scott Galloway]

There was this great Hugh Grant, Nicole Kidman show called the Undoing where they're trying to solve a murder and the defense attorney says, people hire me to create muck. And that's what's going on here. I think that's what the AI guys are going to do. I think they're just going to create a ton of confusion around this and make it difficult to pass anything. And also they have the money. My understanding is they've already pledged about a quarter of a billion dollars. And just for reference, leading up into the 22 midterms, pharma spend 26. No, this is. I'm using 2022 just as a benchmark.

[Kara Swisher]

Oh, oh, okay, got it.

[Scott Galloway]

But the Pharma lobby spent 380 million. Insurance spent 159, real estate spent 139. I think you're going to see far more than that spent by the pro AI lobby. I think it's going to be sort of. They'll try to couch it as we're for safety and children. We need to do this thoughtfully. And the anti AI will be a grassroots and it'll be focused on data centers. They're environmentally damaging to us, they not creating any jobs and all they're going to do is send your already soaring energy costs even higher. So it's going to be an interesting proxy for how people feel about AI and technology.

[Kara Swisher]

I don't know, I feel like it goes back to the Bezos thing is they're trying. Nobody likes them anymore. They have become villains. They are villains now. And so no matter how much money they spend, people are like. I can't tell you how many people come. Scott, really interestingly over the past week, people have come up to me and said thank you to you and I for being at least critical in a smart way. Like very, you know, not just screaming about it, but explaining it. I just feel like these are villains now and they can spend as much money as they want, but I don't think it's gonna. I think people in their heart feel very nervous about it and very, very distrustful. And I know it doesn't correlate with how much money like Prada was, but the story is about corporations fucking you, tech companies fucking you. That's really what it's about. And I think. And it was, it did it in a very subtle way, but it's. They've got. I'm not so sure it's going to work. And the same thing with these, the prediction markets, as much as they're interesting, everyone's got a little funny feeling about them. I mean, obviously the Senate, nobody in the Senate should be on prediction markets if they have information trading. Well, both, you're right, predicting Marx is even worse on some level because it's like let's bet on the war, let's bet on death, essentially. And it should be the White House. It should be the House, it should be all of them. It's not free speech. You have unique information. You're there for the public service. And while you're there, you're not going to be gambling, essentially, which is what I think it is.

[Scott Galloway]

There's two issues here. One, and we'll come back to this one, is how the general public feels about AI and how the brand has eroded dramatically. And then there's, in my view, we should follow the Singapore model. An entry level minister earns the equivalent of $800,000 and 1.7 million US for a prime minister. The objective of our elected representatives, the incentive should be you are there to make Americans wealthier, not to enrich Yourself. And what Americans see right now around AI is the following. It's making a lot of people a lot of money, but the only thing I see is risk, peril, according to these guys. And my electricity costs are gonna go up, so I'm supposed to like this. Oh, and by the way, the ultimate poster child for tech in this age is Musk. And he does not acquit himself.

[Kara Swisher]

Well, no, he does not.

[Scott Galloway]

So it used to be Gates. It was a little bit awkward. It used to be. And then went on to, I think, get very concerned about public health and developing nations. Steve Jobs, at a minimum, was likable and seen as a visionary. The new spokespeople for tech are Musk. Altman. Right. I don't even think Bezos. He's got a kind of left. No. Don't you think he's kind of left?

[Kara Swisher]

No. I think people think of him. I think he looks like Daddy Warbucks, except not nice to Annie.

[Scott Galloway]

And then, unfortunately or not fortunately or unfortunately, the other person at the center of this that's identifying or marking the age around technology because he was so close to so many of them is Epstein. So what do you have? You have increasing electricity costs, wealth accretion that you're not participating in peril that supposedly the inventors of this shit think is everywhere. Oh, and let's add in a dash of pedophilia. Welcome to big Tech. Like, who are the. Who are. I mean, maybe Dario Amade. Who are the heroes here that are supposed to be Cuban? Daario, do you think Cuban's associated with technology?

[Kara Swisher]

I do, I do. I'm just saying. But I think he's not associating with it. I'm just saying there are better heroes here. Like, I would say Satya Nadella could fill that role. Tim Cook could have, except now he looks like. Like, somewhat of a chode. You know, I don't know. I agree with you. I think I've never seen such a thing happen.

[Scott Galloway]

I mean, just 10% of Americans are more excited than concerned about AI. As of March, 2/3 of Americans have not. Have not much or no exposure to AI at work. Two thirds of Americans think that AI will eliminate more jobs than it creates. Less than a third of Americans trust AI, and 77% of Americans think AI poses a threat to humanity. So, okay, threat to humanity, but my electricity costs are going up.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah. So while I'm living here for. It kills us.

[Scott Galloway]

I can barely afford gas. I don't have my Affordable care subsidies. But OpenAI is raising money at $850 billion to fund something that supposedly is a threat to humanity. What do you know? People aren't excited about AI They've done. This is the worst managed brand in a long time.

[Kara Swisher]

I don't know what they can do get it back. I really don't at this point. We'll see if they can, but they're just all such. Every time they open their mouths, I think they should stop talking. That's my feeling. Anyway, we need to go on a quick break and when we come back, Apple is sitting on a ton of cash. Might they use it to make a big acquisition under their new CEO?

[Scott Galloway]

Support for the show comes from Back Market. Listen, there's a lot of ads out there telling you to buy new products. I'm at a point in my life where I'd say two thirds of the things I buy, I think, do I really need this? I'd like to go somewhere, asylum, retreat and just live off a plate and a fork. But that has nothing to do with this ad. It's the same thing with tech ads. But Back Market gives you a smarter way to buy tech. Bringing personal and home electronics back to life through professional refurbishment at a much lower price than new. It's all they do. Back Market offers a range of high quality phones, computers, gaming consoles, vacuum cleaners and even ipods. All of the tech at Back Market has been inspected and restored by best in class professionals to ensure it is in perfect working condition. They offer a one year warranty and 30 day returns. And not only is Back Market refurbished tech more affordable than buying new, it's also more sustainable. E waste is the fastest growing waste stream in the world. And Back Market is on a mission to reduce the environmental toll of the fasttech industry by making refurbished the smarter, more confident choice. Designed to use, use fewer raw materials, waste less and emit less than new. Find your next phone for less on backmarket.com

[Kara Swisher]

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[Kara Swisher]

Scott we're back. We have to talk about Apple's latest earnings and what they mean for the company's future strategy. They just had their best March quarter ever, beating expectations with $111 billion in revenue, up 17% from last year. IPhone is still the engine. $57 billion in sales, up 22% in their services business. That's iCloud. Apple TV and subscriptions just hit an all time record of nearly 31 billion. But the announced it's abandoning its net cash neutral target. Some analysts say this is a signal that Apple's about to make a major AI acquisition, possibly the AI startup Perplexity, which has struggled compared to the others but and have a range of issues around it. Should Apple buy into the AI business first? What do you, what do you think about this?

[Scott Galloway]

Well first off, this really is sort of a run through the tape. High five, you know, nice last quarter for Tim Cook. Best Q1 ever. Revenues of 111 billion up 17% year on year beating Wall street estimates of 109 billion. The stock's trading up 3% after hours. One of the things I love about Apple is they've figured out we're a mature company. We're not a growth company. We're still growing, but we're going to return money to shareholders and they do it through buybacks. They just announced $100 billion share buyback they've raised their dividend 4% to 27 cents per share. The iPhone revenue rose 22% in the quarter with Cook calling the iPhone 17 lineup, which I wasn't a fan of, I got to own that. The most popular in our history got that one wrong. The revenue was constrained by supply issues. Q3 guidance, revenue growth of 14 to 17% year on year. And the new CEO joined the earnings call and was introduced by Cook, which was the first time, I think first appearance since the transition was announced. He praised Apple's financial discipline under Cook. And the thing I love or respect so much about Apple is that companies typically have a tough time acknowledging they're no longer a teenager and they stuff their face with Botox and fillers and they don't want to act like a mature company and be very disciplined. Which goes to your question around AI. I personally think and watch by the time this airs, they'll announce they've acquired Perplexity. I think Apple's culture is so strong that they've decided that they are not an acquisitive company that they don't like acquired. They've made fewer acquisitions in any company of their size. And I wonder, the headphone company's the

[Kara Swisher]

last one I remember beats right.

[Scott Galloway]

It just wasn't that big a deal.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah.

[Scott Galloway]

But in my view, what they've decided is similar to the search wars. Let's not engage in the AI wars. It's too expensive. There's too much capital in it. Let's continue to be the arbiter. The toll then custody of the billion most attractive consumers in the world.

[Kara Swisher]

Like with maps, the way they sort

[Scott Galloway]

of got out of maps, they get and they manage. And granted there's been antitrust action against it, but they managed to get a $20 billion licensing fee to be the default search engine from Google, from Alphabet. I wonder if they're going to say, look, we'll use AI to improve our targeting and improve our Apple music, but we're going to at some point have an auction and auction off access as the default LLM and they're going to get tens of billions of dollars from one of these guys.

[Kara Swisher]

Or should they buy something? And just because this is sort of the heart, whatever you think of AI, it is at the heart of your services. You can't just like, you can't vendor it like you would search or map

[Scott Galloway]

search has been pretty.

[Kara Swisher]

Yes, but it's not that there's a whole bunch of things you do on an iPhone that's not just searching. And you don't use search internally on the phone, you use it when you go outside. That's what they use Google for your browser and they don't do it. They don't power the search inside of Apple. They have to have an AI company. They just do. They need it to integrate the way Google has done with Gemini. They need one, I think they have to buy one because they're not going to be able to build it. They keep having people leave who running AI. It's just there's not enough action happening there for people to stay. There's more action.

[Scott Galloway]

So you think it'll be an aqua hire? Do you think they'll actually offer it as a service?

[Kara Swisher]

No, I think it'll be integrated into their services the way Gemini is. I mean there is a Gemini separate service but most of the usage of Gemini is within the search engine right into their current product. I don't think people necessarily. I go out when I want to use AI and go to clot right. And, and sometimes I get it in Gemini but Gemini is not quite specific enough and I don't want to pay for it and I don't want more relationship with Google and probably one of and Claude is better for me at least. So I think they have to have something they integrate into their business for lots of reasons and then they could also say if you want to do something outside like with search we have a deal with OpenAI. I think they did have some sort of deal anyway. I think they. They buy something. I don't see how they can't but

[Scott Galloway]

to be serious in AI involves this capex See Apple's complexion in shareholders is Apple shareholders have gotten their lips wrapped around the crack cocaine of profits.

[Kara Swisher]

I'm not talking about a customer service, a consumer service. I'm talking about integrated into their other services. They need to have some ability to do that.

[Scott Galloway]

But why? I guess my question is of following Anthropic and OpenAI both get public, both of them call it a trillion dollars. The new CEO shows up and says who wants to be the default AI for Apple products?

[Kara Swisher]

Yes, but for Apple products externally, not internally. They need to have AI.

[Scott Galloway]

Agree. They need to have AI competence.

[Kara Swisher]

Right. And that's why they need to buy something like perplexity now because you don't

[Scott Galloway]

think they can recruit the people to build that.

[Kara Swisher]

I can't. They have lost people. I don't pay attention to every turn of the screw with all these AI people moving around which they do like a. But they've lost quite a few people Running. It's just not. It's not where the action is. And so they're gonna go. And so they have to have a competence by having a, like a perplexity to run the internal stuff that you don't see necessarily. And then for a consumer service, just like with search, there's search in Apple, that's not Google. But then they go and get it for the external stuff for customers where it's like, why should we pay for a really robust search service? It just doesn't make sense. Why should we pay for a map? I mean, they still have maps. That's not true. But mostly it's Google Maps, right? That's who they get a big chunk of money from. And that's who their default is or default browser. Here we have, you know, the Google browser, essentially. And so that kind of stuff, it's like, why bother doing that? This is integral to their. How they get you songs, how they get you. They can't have OpenAI give you song information. It just doesn't make. They need to do it themselves. Certain things. That's my feeling.

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah. I find the product. I haven't. I pull up. I'm now running and doing more Zone two exercise.

[Kara Swisher]

Good.

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah, I know. Thank you. But when I bring up Spotify, they have that AI dj. I'm trying to think, you think that Apple needs AI, how would that manifest in the customer consumer experience?

[Kara Swisher]

You don't see it just the way. When you go to search right now with Gemini, it's there, right? It says this is the gem. You don't even have to tell me. It's just search. Like, I don't know why they have to differentiate.

[Scott Galloway]

When I'm on an Apple phone though, I use Google search.

[Kara Swisher]

Right. But internally, as they serve up all manner of things to you, they're using Apple technology. They just need to own. They need to have a basic level of competence in AI to serve much of their stuff. And then the external stuff, they can get piles of money from whatever company. I bet it'll be Claude. That's my guess. But they need to own something, so if only to maintain those relationships. Right. I just don't think they can be without AI expertise. But they don't need to offer consumer service. They're never gonna offer a consumer service. Not their strength anyway. Their strength is their ecosystem. Anyway, we need to move on. But the Pentagon just made a slew of AI deals. Speaking of, this is an AI week here. Jeff Bezos is Tuxedo and AI dudes. Announcing last week that it reached agreements with Amazon, Microsoft, Nvidia, Oracle, and a startup called Reflection to use their technology for, quote, lawful operational use. I don't trust them at all. These companies join XAI, OpenAI and Google in providing Pentagon with AI tools. The Pentagon says these agreements will accelerate transformation toward making the US military an AI first fighting force. Notably, Anthropic is still out of the mix despite that recent productive meeting at the White House Just last week, Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth called Anthropic CEO Dario Amodi an ideological lunatic. He's such a moron. They should spread around the wealth here and not just rely on one company, obviously, and let them fight it out. But I think nonetheless, from what I understand from everyone who works in government, Claude remains the top player here. And it's stupidity on the. Well, it's kind of saying things twice. Stupidity on the behalf of Pete Hegseth. You have to assume he's smart in the first place, which he isn't. I think he's gonna be out. I have this feeling he's gonna get out. I do. I don't know why I just was like, oh, he's gonna get rid of him. He's too much of a moron. He's such a. I know he looks the part and he's like, does his chest puffy thing for Donald Trump, which he likes. But I just think he's. I think the knives are out for this guy. Cause he's such an. I just can't figure out which one they're gonna get first, Patel or. And by the way, SNL did a great job on both of them this week.

[Scott Galloway]

Oh, my God.

[Kara Swisher]

Aziz and Zariat did Patel. And of course, of course Colin Jost. Jost, as PD says, is just fantastic. But I think he's a moron. And it's fine to have all these people come in and do this stuff. Sure, why not? It just seems like that's a lot of people in there, in that room. I don't think it's. I feel like somehow it's probably too chaotic to have all of them there on some level. Maybe not.

[Scott Galloway]

This seems to me that to a certain extent, Anthropic can declare victory and go home and be one of the seven companies or not. The Department of Defense, they blacklisted Anthropic. Anthropic feels like. And Dario Mod, I feel like kind of the first person who sort of said no to the tech bros and to Hagseth and Trump. And he's gained, I think, a lot of stature from that, but at the same time, he can say that, fine, I'll be one of the seven companies. The breakdown wasn't over capabilities, it was over guardrails. Right. The DOD wanted Claude deployable for all lawful purposes.

[Kara Swisher]

Right. Which they didn't. Yes, I agree.

[Scott Galloway]

And Anthropic said no to autonomous kill decisions. And so a federal judge said the Pentagon's move looks like an attempt to cripple Anthropic. Which is an. It's just so weird. All these tech bros who are all looking for the next check and bailout in their own crypto scheme going after Dario. I think it's. I think Dario's in a great spot right now.

[Kara Swisher]

Oh, for the next era. Oh, wow.

[Scott Galloway]

He looks really solid.

[Kara Swisher]

Next. If there's a Democratic president, he's going to be the poster child for the Democrats.

[Scott Galloway]

The most interesting argument I've heard, and it really made me think about this, was that all of these guys are claiming that this is more powerful than nuclear weapons. We don't have private venture backed companies making nuclear bombs.

[Kara Swisher]

Correct, sir.

[Scott Galloway]

So it's like, okay, if you really believe that, then shouldn't you all, by virtue of defense, for defense reasons, be government controlled and own companies?

[Kara Swisher]

Yes, yes, yes.

[Scott Galloway]

Or highly regulated. Because you're claiming that these things are more powerful than any technology ever. We don't.

[Kara Swisher]

Scott, stop making sense, Please do.

[Scott Galloway]

Well, it's just so. It feels to me like they're setting themselves up. I'm really excited about the potential for a Democratic administration because I think there's gonna be a lot of momentum around. All right, here are some basic common sense regulations we would apply to any technology that is a quarter of what you claim. The peril is here. You're the ones saying it's going to take employment over 20%. By the way, the French Revolution and the Weimar Republic descending into darkness happened when they hit 20% unemployment. You're claiming this thing is learning so fast that it'll be able to turn on itself. Well, okay, so shouldn't that mean you are not allowed to release anything to the broader public until we have given you the badge of clearance on it? I think it's just going to be so easy for. For somebody to kind of step in and say, all right, you guys win. You have scared us so squarely and so rightly that we are going to have regulators and the Defense Department and the DOJ in your fucking knitting, folks. And at the same time, they need to strike a balance such that Chinese LLMs don't get well ahead of us. But at some point you have to realize, okay, when does the well being of civilization begin to even remotely rival the excitement of your ipo? It's just the tech bros have become so used to. As long as I'm going to get my face on the NASDAQ billboard, I can overrun all social concerns and I can even brag about how fucking dangerous this is as long as I use it to extract or pull the future forward with cheap capital. I think these guys are really sticking their chin out.

[Kara Swisher]

They're sticking their. And then they have again. Emile Michael is there, their best buddy who is from there gaming the situation. Because the moron Pete Hegseth doesn't know anything. And so they're sitting. Let me say, if the Democrats do get control in a strong way, you need to flush all these people down the toilet, like, immediately. Like, not even. Like, let's all try to get along. First you take them out and then you start over again. And I think puts Dario in the best position in that regard because he had the guts to speak back or at least push back on just the most illogical, moronic statements by the Defense Department under this incredibly unqualified cabinet secretary. I mean, really, it's so ridiculous. One of the problems, sometimes there's nefarious people who are smart, right? And you're sort of like, oh, we're in trouble. But this is a moron. Like an actual. Like, the moronic nature of both Kash Patel and Pete Hegseth is so apparent. They're not sly. They're not, you know, slyly evil or evilly sly or whatever.

[Scott Galloway]

I think Chanie is shaking his head correct.

[Kara Swisher]

I was like, oh, because he knows, right? He could do something. But I just. You're right. Daario puts himself in a much better position for what's next if we make it there. Anyway, one more quick break. We'll be back for wins and fails. I'm Mitch Purse, two time NWSL champion, championship MVP and forward for the US Women's National Team. Before I went pro, I graduated from Harvard with a degree in psychology, which comes in handy more than you think. Any athlete pursuing greatness knows there's a certain mentality you have to have. What people don't know is what that costs. In my podcast, Confessions of an Elite Athlete, I sit down with the best athletes in the world and explore the psychology, mindset, and unseen battles on the path to greatness. So take a seat and learn from the Confessions of an elite athlete on YouTube or wherever you get your podcasts. Foreign. I'm Maria Sharapova, and I'm hosting a new podcast called Pretty Tough. Every week, I'm sitting down with trailblazing women at the top of their game to discuss ambition, work ethic, and the ups and downs that come on the path to achieving greatness. We'll dive into their stories and get valuable insights from top executives, actors, entrepreneurs, and other individuals who have inspired me so much in my own journey. Follow Pretty Tough wherever you get your podcasts.

[Scott Galloway]

So we are 250 years into this American experiment, and I'd say it's going okay. I give us like a C. There

[Kara Swisher]

is no perfect past, but there is also no exclusively negative past, because humans are gonna human. That's what we do. I think the story of America is the struggle of people who have not been included in the promise of America to expand those principles to include more people.

[Scott Galloway]

What's gonna determine the next 250 years of America? And how do we write a new social contract that can give us the democracy we deserve?

[Kara Swisher]

Okay, so I'm just gonna be a jerk here because I'm a historian. So we have to have a prologue explaining, you know, we the people.

[Scott Galloway]

You know, I do still remember from Schoolhouse Rock, we the people, in order to perform a more perfect union, establish justice. What is it? Ensure domestic tranquility.

[Kara Swisher]

So you're talking about a foundational document. So I'm building a document that will protect American democracy.

[Scott Galloway]

That's this week on America Actual league.

[Kara Swisher]

Okay, Scott wins and fails. Why don't you go first this week?

[Scott Galloway]

Well, my fail is the board of directors for GameStop. If you're going to be an SEC publicly listed company, you have a fiduciary responsibility to not impose a tremendous burden on other companies who are trying to serve their shareholders and serve their consumers and their employees. And when you make these ridiculous offers to another company that has absolutely no credibility, veracity, likelihood of going through, you're just in some weird attempt to ignite another meme craze in your stock. That's just irresponsible and reckless. And there needs to be, generally speaking, in business, from public companies to other public companies, there is sort of a code you don't like. When we were thinking about acquiring a company or public company, and then we decided internally it doesn't make sense. We immediately sent them a letter saying we're withdrawing consideration because we don't want to tie them up. We want them to get on with their business in their life, even though you could do it to distract them. But I was on the board of Urban Outfitters, and at one point we were considering acquiring Abercrombie and Fitch, who at the time was hugely diminished.

[Kara Swisher]

Wow, that's.

[Scott Galloway]

Oh, by the way, Kara, we missed that one. We could have picked it up for pennies.

[Kara Swisher]

Pennies.

[Scott Galloway]

And it's come back hugely.

[Kara Swisher]

Oh, has it?

[Scott Galloway]

Oh, my gosh. Abercrombie, that would have been. That one got away from us. We came very close. The Haney family that runs and controls Urban Outfitters are very, very smart people. But ultimately we pass. But the moment, it was like the moment we made the decision, we could have gotten in the way of other competitors, American Eagle or whatever, to acquire it kept it on the market for longer, but it was like, no. There's a code amongst good fiduciaries where you immediately say, we're not going to be a bidder here, such that they can get on with trying to sell it to somebody else. And this is such. It's just irresponsible. I just hate this from, like, a decorum standpoint. It's a waste of everyone's time. He's not serious. And I love the fact that the market has responded by taking the stock down 11%. Anyways, it's kind of a weird feeling.

[Kara Swisher]

Ryan Cohen's an ass clown.

[Scott Galloway]

I mean, my win is Senator and university president Ben Sasse. Did you see a 60 Minutes interview?

[Kara Swisher]

Oh, God. Oh, it's heartbreaking.

[Scott Galloway]

It really. And of course, I turn everything back to me. I find he is such a. Like, he's the best of conservative values. You know, his ability to talk about his faith, God, his fidelity to the Constitution, his fidelity to his family, and couch it as he struggles with a pancreatic cancer. It's so eloquent and so moving. And I was struggling with something that happened to me that really upset me this weekend. And I watched his interview, and he talked about that at one point before he had the diagnosis of pancreatic cancer. He had, he said, hundreds of tumors around his spine, unbeknownst to him. And he was in such intense crippling pain that he was taking a dozen scalding hot showers a day. That would provide him just minutes of relief, and then he'd have to take another hot shower. And so I started a practice where I'm like, okay, imagine you have that kind of pain, tumors all over your spine, and all you can do is lay down and then take another scalding hot shower. I'm like, what would this problem mean to me at that point? And it's A really healthy practice. Anyways, I have my bensas tumor practice now.

[Kara Swisher]

Oh, goodness.

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah.

[Kara Swisher]

Can I point out there's a lot of really amazing MRNA technology happening right now about pancreatitis.

[Scott Galloway]

Well, he's still alive because of some of those technologies.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, but it's still. It's probably too late. But there's so much going on. Of course, this administration's been cutting all these things, but he's amazing. He was one of the first people to go against Trump, too, when it wasn't convenient.

[Scott Galloway]

He also had a really lovely statement when they were talking about the worst thing about his illness. He stated that he was really sad that he wasn't gonna be with his wife for a while. I mean, it was just such a lovely testament to his wife and the way he framed it that he's gonna. That he believes they'll be together again. But he's upset that he's gonna have to wait. I mean, this guy Democrats should a sigh of relief that he is not running for president on the Republican side.

[Kara Swisher]

Well, except the Republicans rejected him because he was an early Trump opponent. And then he got sort of, oh,

[Scott Galloway]

I think he could have carved out a big lane.

[Kara Swisher]

I don't know. He got drummed out. He was one of the people like Liz Cheney. And so he was in that gang that got shoved out of the whole party because they needed to be in, you know, the Trump hallelujah choir. So I always found him to have a lot of courage, even before this.

[Scott Galloway]

I reached out to him, his people, over the weekend. He's going to come on the poetry pod. But anyways, my win is just the perspective. And I think I would recommend that everyone watch that interview. It really does remind most of us. It's like that monk saying that. That the man with good health has a thousand problems. The man with bad health has one problem. When you hear what this guy's going through and you hear how just articulate he is about government and his views on things, I really found it. I thought, God, this guy's such a great role model. I really hope he's around for. I love that he's getting attention now, but I think he's adding a lot of really wonderful value to the public discourse right now. Anyways, my win is senator and university president.

[Kara Swisher]

Good win. Excellent win. All right. Okay. And your fail is this board. Okay, so my fail. Well, it's kind of a win in some ways, but the New York Times interview with Tucker Carlson, he's done a lot of interviews lately because he's trying out all his stylings to run for president. As you noted, he's trying everything. It's fascinating to watch.

[Scott Galloway]

The interviewer did a great job.

[Kara Swisher]

Yes. Lulu Garcia Navarro, who's a friend of mine, did a great job pressing him back. He denied wondering whether Trump is the Antichrist. Lulu played it, and then he denied it again. He denied it right after. Oh, it didn't come out of my mouth. She's like, it just came out of your mouth. He goes, I never said that.

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah, right.

[Kara Swisher]

It was. I was like, funny, this guy looks

[Scott Galloway]

like you saying that. This isn't you.

[Kara Swisher]

You know, she did a great job with him, but it was just. I think the more interesting his thing is. You should watch all of them because he's preparing for a presidential run and so his tricks and everything else. She's super smart. You may not like Tucker Carlson, but he's highly intelligent, and I think he's an interesting. It'll be an interesting fight over the Republican Party post Trump. And obviously Marjorie Taylor Greene is trying to prepare her way. She changed Trump derangement syndrome into Trump disappointment syndrome, which I think is probably more accurate for his followers. Anyway, just a really good interview. Lulu's an amazing interviewer at the Times, but that exchange, the whole thing is quite good. But that exchange back and forth was really something. Obviously, my win is the money. That Devil Wears product did. It's crazy. Sorry, you just did yours. You just did the same. One of yours. The games up. That is a lot of money. Also, it's really interesting what's doing really well. The Michael biopic did really well. Well, Michael Jackson biopic is doing incredibly well. Again, it was really. Here's why I think it's a win, because Hollywood always says, oh, that's a black movie, or that's a woman's movie, or that's a gay man and women's movie. And that's why it's doing well. It's just they're both. I haven't seen the Michael movie, and I think they left out some of the pertinent parts of controversies around him in this one.

[Scott Galloway]

Michael Jackson. What controversy?

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, exactly. Or let's bring in a white guy project. Hail Mary. They're just good movies. Stop having to say, ah, it's the women. Ah, it's this. Like, you just make a. What I loved about this movie and some of the others that have been doing really well is they show Hollywood at their very best. Beautifully told stories. There's not a. In any of these. There's not A stitch of fucking AI anywhere. Right. It doesn't feel cooked. And that's what really is working. People are just flocking to these movies. And by the way, the theater was full of not. It was everybody. It was really interesting. It was young men. It was not. I was surprised by the audience. Cause you get to thinking it's a bunch of ladies going out and having, you know, margaritas, frozen margaritas with their friends, and then kicking it up in their heels. But it wasn't. That was you. That was you, Scott. So I just. I really like.

[Scott Galloway]

I'm starting hanging out at movie theaters.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, I know non AI movies. I don't know what else to say. It's a push. Just like, people don't like brand AI, they like brand people. And that's stories done. Very good. They love stories. Anyway.

[Scott Galloway]

Oh, I got a show recommendation for you.

[Kara Swisher]

What? What?

[Scott Galloway]

Shoresy.

[Kara Swisher]

Shorzy.

[Scott Galloway]

It's about this. It's about this hockey team that's sort of the pride and joy of some small town in Canada. It's really. And of course, it's all about. It's really a story about people, but it's really adorable and well done.

[Kara Swisher]

All right.

[Scott Galloway]

Oh, and Kara, you'll love this. Shorzy is directed by the same guy who directed Heated Rivalry, Jacob Tierney's There's Gotta be Blowjobs in the Locker Room coming Episode two.

[Kara Swisher]

I was watching Running Point. I think that's what it's called. The one with Kate Hudson. And Justin's in it, too. Justin's in it a lot in this movie.

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah, it's very good in that, too.

[Kara Swisher]

It's good. It's adorable. I just finished watching. Okay, Shoresy. All right, I'll listen to it. Anyway, we want to hear from you. Send us your questions about business, tech, or whatever's on your mind. Go to nymag.com pivot submit a question for the show, or call 85551, pivot and elsewhere in the Karen Scott universe. You're gonna love this, Scott. For the latest episode of On, I interviewed Aline Brosh McKe and David Frankel, the writer and director of Devil Wears Prada, too. I wanted to focus on them. I mean, the stars have gotten a lot of attention, but I think these two are at the heart of why it's so excellent. And they're really incredibly good purveyors of what they do. Let's listen to a clip of David explaining how he approached Meryl Streep's character, Miranda Priestley.

[Scott Galloway]

Miranda is not the villain here. Miranda is the heroine, Miranda is trying to achieve excellence every day. And. And why does she have to be nice to accomplish that? You know, and there's a long list of mostly men, of course, who are highly regarded for their superb work. I mean, they might be the goats in their business, but they. And no one really questions how nice they are about accomplishing that.

[Kara Swisher]

It's a really smart interview. I really like to show people behind the scenes. I think they're great. And, Scott, one of the parts you'll like a lot is Miranda trying desperately to avoid getting in trouble with hr. The whole time. It reminded me of you. I don't know why.

[Scott Galloway]

Trying to avoid hr.

[Kara Swisher]

Yes. There's, you know, she says things and her assistant goes, no, no. And she's like, what? I can't say I want to kill myself. You know, there's a whole. It goes. It's a little bit, but it works really well. And every time she did it. When I saw the second time, I thought, oh, Scott Calloway needs someone who sits next to him and goes. But then I realized that was me. So. No, no, no, no, no.

[Scott Galloway]

I think you give me. You realize I have never been in anything resembling any type of trouble like that at a corporation. I'm Alan Alda over there.

[Kara Swisher]

I know, I know, I know, I know, I know. Anyway, it was good. Anyway, it's David Frankel, and although I

[Scott Galloway]

do call my assistant Jiggles. Is that wrong?

[Kara Swisher]

Oh, God. Anyway, there we go. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. We don't do that. We don't say that.

[Scott Galloway]

At the Christmas party, I ask all the hot women to sit on my lap. Is that wrong? What do you want for Christmas, little girl?

[Kara Swisher]

Oh, my God. All right, that's the show. Thanks for listening to Pivot and be sure to like and subscribe to our YouTube channel. We'll be back on Friday.

[Scott Galloway]

Today's show was produced by Lara Naiman Zoe Marcus Taylor Griffin, Todd Weissman and Christine Driscoll. Ernie Andrew. Todd engineered this episode. Thanks also to Drew Rose, Musevara Danshalon and Kate Gallagher. Nishat Kuroz VOXMI is executive producer of podcast. Make sure to follow Pivot on your favorite podcast platform. Thank you for listening to Pivot from New York Magazine and Vox Media. You can subscribe to the magazine nymag.com pod we'll be back later this week for another breakdown of all things tech and business.

[Kara Swisher]

Support for this show comes from Harvey. AI. The future of law is agentic. Not just tools that assist, but AI agents that navigate complex matters. That's why Harvey created agents that can do the work from end to end. They build a plan, pull from the secure data sources, run sub agents in parallel and draft work product ready for your review so you can delegate work and own the judgment. Trusted by more than 60% of the Am Law 100 and leading Fortune 500 legal teams, Harvey is an AI operating system designed specifically for legal work. Harvey AI tailored for law learn more at Harvey AI

[Scott Galloway]

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[Kara Swisher]

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[Scott Galloway]

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[Kara Swisher]

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[Scott Galloway]

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