Pivot Podcast Bonus: How Did Heated Rivalry’s Producers Make Their Massive Hit?

Date: February 7, 2026
Host: Kara Swisher
Guests: Jacob Tierney (Creator), Brendan Brady (Executive Producer)
Episode Theme: The unlikely, culture-shifting, business-savvy success of "Heated Rivalry," an openly queer romance drama out of Canada, and a look at how its creators bucked industry norms.

Episode Overview

Kara Swisher hosts this special episode to explore the phenomenal success of the Canadian TV series "Heated Rivalry." Joined by creator Jacob Tierney and executive producer Brendan Brady, the discussion centers on the cultural, creative, and business elements that made the show a breakout hit—particularly in a media environment resistant to queer, sex-forward storytelling. The episode dives deeply into production challenges, funding differences between Canada and the US, intellectual property (IP) ownership, and broader commentary on the entertainment industry.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Cultural Impact and Queer Joy of "Heated Rivalry"

• Canada’s Embrace & American Hesitance

  • The show became a national source of pride, praised by figures like Prime Minister Mark Carney for embodying Canadian values of inclusion and self-expression. Carney lauds:

    “A fundamental Canadian value is that people should be able to be whoever they want to be, to love whoever they want to love.” [02:33]

• Queer Joy on Screen

  • Jacob Tierney describes the series as a rare depiction of "queer joy" that’s unpreachy and fantasy-fulfilling, steering away from trauma-focused LGBTQ+ narratives:

    “What the show did, in a kind of an unpreachy, un-trying-to-teach-you-a-lesson way, is just present queer joy.” [03:38]
    “We just don’t… have a story that chooses to not focus on trauma, to focus on other parts of the queer experience as fantasy.” [04:35]

• Sex, Romance, and Challenging Old Tropes

  • There’s significance in showing happy, sexually active queer characters—especially men:

    “If you want to have a sex life, get ready to die and if you want to be happy, get ready to not have sex.” [05:27]

2. The Overlooked Power of the Romance Genre

• Romance’s Popularity and Misogyny

  • Both producers highlight romance as a misunderstood but massive genre, dismissed due to its association with women:

    “It’s dismissed because of the misogyny that we all endlessly live with because it’s something that appeals to women, is often written by women and consumed by women.” [06:40]
    “If this show was about a boy with a gun, somebody would have optioned this book 10 years ago.” [06:53]

• Female Desire as a Secret Sauce

  • The fanbase—primarily women—had long been overlooked by the industry, which underestimated their appetite for this kind of story.

3. Canadian Production Model: Funding, Ownership, & Risk

• How the Funding Works

  • Canadian TV relies heavily on government grants and tax credits, as opposed to US-style full network funding.

    “The Canadian film and TV system has subsidies and equity and grant systems—that are propped up by the Canadian government... the producers own all the underlying IP.” [09:11]
    “Basically, the broadcaster puts in 20-30%, tax credits bring another 20-30%, and we had to source the last piece ourselves.” [09:11]

• Producer-Owned IP

  • Unlike the norm in the US, Tierney and Brady own their series’ IP, allowing long-term creative and financial control:

    “We are the studio in the system.” [10:06]
    “We made the decision to reinvest our fees… because we knew that if this goes really well, we’re going to benefit for the next 25 years off of this.” [19:10]

• The Budget and Production Approach

  • Lean, efficient, and collaborative:

    “We shot all six episodes in 36 days… Jacob directed all six… We block shot them like one giant movie.” [13:17]

  • Under $3 million CAD per episode—low for a one-hour drama—but praised for its high production quality.

4. Anti-“Fascist” Directing: Collaboration Over Control

• Tierney’s Philosophy
  • Rejects the "auteur" director myth in favor of a collaborative, ensemble-driven approach:

    “I would rather be surprised by an offering from an actor than control every last aspect of their performance.” [16:18]

  • Advocates for shorter workdays and care for the crew, especially women:

    “We feel we need to change this mentality of endlessly shooting 15, 16 hour days, which is where the cost balloon[ed].” [14:19]

5. Overcoming Industry Skepticism and Exec Rejection

• Vindication After Rejection

  • Eileen Chaikin (The L Word) asks if they feel smug about their success after so many US and Canadian rejections:

    “I can’t pretend there isn’t a part of me that’s slightly smug.” [26:10]
    “I felt very strongly… I’m not doing what these folks want me to do. And… it wasn’t just Americans. It was other Canadians too. It was a lot of people.” [26:51]

  • Executives wanted unnecessary changes—like adding a female protagonist—misunderstanding both the material and audience:

    “You have a gay hockey show with sex. And they were like, that's not what we meant. Too much sex, too much hockey, too little hockey, too little sex. Whatever it was, it was all like, why is it like this?” [27:27]

• Understanding the Audience

  • Industry insiders missed who the audience already was (women readers and viewers):

    “Women read these books, women write these books. Gay men don’t even know these books exist. Like, these are for women.” [27:57]

6. Industry Change: Mergers, Streaming, and AI

• Shifting Creative Demands & Streaming

  • Referencing Matt Damon, they discuss how streaming encourages more formulaic, attention-grabbing structures, but “Heated Rivalry” leaned in the opposite direction:

    “People are saying, this is a show you have to pay attention to. If you’re on your phone, you’re not going to get it... so much of it is about what is not being said, about catching looks between people.” [32:05]

• Impact of Industry Consolidation

  • Concern over shrinking competition and fewer buyers, affecting the creative environment:

    “I don’t love that there’s less places to go… it’s way better when we have more [competition].” [34:07]

• AI and the Future of TV Production

  • Cautiously optimistic about AI as a tool (for logistics), but see little creative value:

    “I think that there are a lot of opportunities [for AI], but I think it is in that tool for creators, not as the creative engine behind.” [37:13]
    “Friction’s critical for you being here.” [38:32]

7. Looking Forward: What’s Next?

• Future Projects and Dream Scenarios
  • While tight-lipped about specifics, Tierney hints at a "dream come true" future project in the works, alongside Brady’s producer ambitions for a new show, “The King is Dead,” by Indigenous writer Tim Fontaine:

    "It's a comedy about a group of Indigenous folks tired of all these white people coming to North America. They take a boat, traverse back to England in an attempt to kill King George III." [41:05]

    • Described as "Monty Python energy."
  • On maintaining perspective:

    “We want to use [our platform] to promote positive issues… hearing from people how their lives are being changed.” [29:44]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

“Enjoy the yearn.” —Brendan Brady, on fans waiting for new episodes. [01:22]

“If this show was about a boy with a gun, somebody would have optioned this book 10 years ago.” —Jacob Tierney [06:53]

“I would rather be surprised by an offering from an actor than control every last aspect of their performance.” —Jacob Tierney [16:18]

“Friction’s critical for you being here.” —Kara Swisher [38:32]

“I can’t pretend there isn’t a part of me that’s slightly smug.” —Jacob Tierney, about industry rejection and later vindication [26:10]

“Women read these books, women write these books. Gay men don’t even know these books exist. Like, these are for women.” —Jacob Tierney [27:57]

Timestamps for Key Segments

• [01:22] "Enjoy the yearn": Playful evasion on future content and fan appetite.
• [03:38] The show's unique joy, cultural impact, and reception.
• [05:26] Discussing sex, romance tropes, and queer representation.
• [09:11] Deep dive into Canadian funding, production model, and IP ownership.
• [13:17] Efficient production, low budget, and collaborative working style.
• [16:18] Jacob Tierney rejects perfectionism and the "auteur" myth.
• [19:10] The benefits of owning the show’s intellectual property.
• [26:10] Eileen Chaikin asks about vindication; Tierney and Brady reflect on industry rejection.
• [32:05] Streaming’s influence, the audience’s attention, and resisting dumbing-down content.
• [34:07] Industry consolidation and what it means for creators.
• [37:13] The role (and limits) of AI in creative production.
• [39:33] Hints at future projects, including "The King is Dead" [41:05].

Tone & Language

The conversation is candid, humorous, and lightly irreverent—especially between Swisher and her guests. There’s a running theme of pride in going against industry orthodoxy, with bits of Canadian humility and pride stitched throughout. The insights are forthright, and the guests are both celebratory and acutely aware of the fragility and specificity of their success.

For Listeners Who Missed the Episode

This episode offers an in-depth, forthright look at how “Heated Rivalry” challenged the TV status quo, not just with its subject matter, but in the way it was produced, financed, and distributed. The show’s creative philosophy, business model, and audience connection exist in intentional contrast to both American TV conventions and industry streaming trends. The result is a masterclass in modern, inclusive, and sustainable series-making, with lessons for anyone interested in breaking out of industry silos—or just wanting to root for the underdog.

End of Summary