Iran Quagmire Questions, SpaceX IPO Plans, and The White House App

Summary

---

Podcast Summary: Pivot – "Iran Quagmire Questions, SpaceX IPO Plans, and The White House App"

Date: March 31, 2026
Hosts: Kara Swisher & Scott Galloway

---

Overview

Kara Swisher and Scott Galloway balance sharp analysis with signature banter as they tackle the week’s biggest stories in tech, politics, and business. This episode covers the escalating US-Iran crisis amid military build-up, SpaceX’s potentially historic IPO and Elon Musk’s growing power, the Pentagon’s legal clash with Anthropic, US local media consolidation, and the White House’s controversial new app.

---

Personal Updates & Banter

[01:58–06:36]

Key Points

• Kara has left Scott’s NY apartment for a new place in Brooklyn, complete with IKEA furniture.
• Discussion on the culture of "stoop book exchanges" and the Brooklyn community spirit.
• Extended, humorous riff on furniture brands (IKEA, West Elm, Restoration Hardware) and their business models.
• Kara recommends Sean Hayes's Off-Broadway show "Unknown," praising its nuanced take on the Internet.

Quote:

• Kara: “We put out all these free books and they were gone. I like the whole culture of people walking by, taking things, giving away things—it’s really nice.” [02:49]

---

No Kings Rallies: Historic Turnout

[06:58–10:48]

Key Points

• Over 9 million people attended "No Kings" rallies globally—potentially the largest single-day protest in American history.
• Notable that two-thirds of RSVPs came from outside major urban centers, including conservative states.
• The hosts discuss the psychological and civic benefits of protest: “Action absorbs anxiety.” (Dan Harris) [08:56]
• Reference to historical protest sizes (Women’s March, BLM 2020).

Quote:

• Scott: “Supposedly there’s a tipping point where if you get 3.5% of the population to demonstrate, that usually connotes change. This wasn’t that, but it’s building.” [09:08]

---

US-Iran Quagmire: Escalation, Leadership, and Intelligence Failures

[10:48–19:23]

Key Points

• President Trump is engaging in fraught negotiations with Iran, under threat of destroying key energy sites; 50,000 US troops now stationed in the Mideast.
• Scott argues the US has effectively been at war with Iran for 47 years, but sees current actions as a "quagmire" and "intelligence failure."
• Criticisms of the current administration's lack of scenario planning, particularly around the Straits of Hormuz and drone warfare (asymmetry makes US military dominance less relevant).
• Advisors around Trump, especially Stephen Miller and “shadow president” Rubio, are blamed for poor counsel or lack of dissent.
• The financial and geopolitical risks, including market instability and the impact on oil insurance, are discussed.

Notable Quotes:

• Scott: “This is kind of the definition of a quagmire... I would argue at this point, Kara, Iran is winning.” [12:43]
• Kara: “Chaos follows this guy. Chaos is his brand right now, anyway.” [19:17]

---

SpaceX IPO: Trillion-Dollar Stakes and Musk's Influence

[19:23–30:05]

Key Points

• Elon Musk possibly joined President Trump and PM Modi on a high-level call regarding technology’s role in the Hormuz crisis.
• SpaceX is planning the largest IPO in history, targeting a $1.75 trillion valuation (over 100x revenue).
• Discussion of Musk’s power: with his 42% stake, he could become the world’s first trillionaire, raising concerns about outsized unelected influence.
• Musk’s control over Starlink (7,600+ satellites, targeting 42,000) frames SpaceX as the new backbone of global communication and military space presence.
• Skepticism about sustainability of the valuation, possibility of competitors eventually catching up (e.g., Bezos/Blue Origin).

Quotes:

• Scott: “At the IPO, it’s trading at 109 times trailing revenue.” [21:48]
• Scott: “As a species we need guardrails... I don't think any unelected person should have this much power.” [23:59]
• Kara: “He becomes Soros... on some level. And I do think it has a negative impact and alerts people to this situation.” [24:43]

---

Anthropic Wins Against the Pentagon, Local Media Merger Blocked

[36:07–47:02]

Key Points

• Anthropic wins a preliminary injunction against the Pentagon's efforts to label it a supply chain risk. Judge decries government actions as “a classic illegal First Amendment retaliation.”
• Anthropic is now the only major AI company resisting military contracts and refusing surveillance work—unique posture may be helping enterprise adoption and attracting sympathy capital.
• Nextar’s merger with Tegna, which would form a super-conglomerate in local news, is temporarily blocked for antitrust concerns.
• FCC chair Brendan Carr is criticized as a partisan, using his post to attack opponents.
• Kara and Scott argue for the importance of local news, but warn against dominant ownership by one player.

Quotes:

• Judge (quoted by Kara): “Orwellian notion to brand an American company a potential adversary for expressing disagreement.” [36:18]
• Scott: “Brendan Carr has no business in the federal government... this guy makes Goebbels look thoughtful.” [38:49]

---

State of Vox & Podcast Networks

[47:15–56:00]

Key Points

• Discussion of potential sale/restructuring at Vox Media: podcasting as a growth engine vs. struggling digital media.
• Speculation about trophy asset appeal of New York Magazine, podcasting’s strategic value, and the shift of legacy media brands to new audience models.
• Kara and Scott clarify ownership and contract structure of "Pivot" and the complexities of advertising and production in podcasting.

Scott: “Podcasts are the new TV shows with a lower cost of production. When they get scaled, they're amazing businesses.” [51:09]

---

White House App Debacle

[57:40–59:33]

Key Points

• The Trump White House launches an app that tracks user locations every 4.5 minutes and links users’ personal info; hosts deride it as a “privacy nightmare” and an ICE tip line.
• Both warn citizens against downloading it, criticizing the exploitative data grab and normalization of “ratting out” neighbors.

Quote:

• Scott: “I would rather give my ex-wife access to my text message history than sign up...” [58:11]
• Kara: “Very typical of the Trump administration. Do not get it. Do not get it. And also an ICE tip line—what kind of person are you that you tip on people?” [58:46]

---

Wins & Fails

[61:46–71:50]

Wins

• Kara: The creative energy and diversity in urban life, especially in NYC and Brooklyn.
  [61:51]
• Scott: Louis Theroux's “Manosphere” documentary for its incisive look at masculine insecurity and the grift at the heart of toxic masculinity movements.
  • “What these boys are looking for... they're so desperate for community. It’s not even the ideology they’re bonding over. They’re just bonding.” [68:50]

Fails

• Kara: Melania Trump’s robot teacher initiative and Trump's signature on US currency—both seen as tone-deaf and grotesque.
• Scott: Democratic Party’s lack of aggressive, creative legal strategy to hold Trump-era lawbreakers accountable at the state level, outside the reach of pardons.

Quotes:

• Kara: “Teaching children should be done by people with the help of technology—that is fine. But this Personalized Educators for American Children... worst idea ever.” [63:33]
• Scott: “The Democrats continue to show a lack of creativity and leadership... they should coordinate with AGs in blue states and start going after these individuals for crimes not protected by presidential pardon.” [70:19]

---

Notable and Memorable Moments

• Scott’s humorous self-deprecation about owning "West Elm" and "IKEA" furniture and having never been to Brooklyn.
• Banter about how billionaires owning media assets or football teams is “about trophy value, not cash flow.”
• Reflection on how podcasting is now the new scalable, lucrative growth opportunity in media.
• Discussion of the underappreciated psychological value of protests: “Action absorbs anxiety.”
• Scott: “I talked to one of these guys that is building the bunker in New Zealand... your pilots are going to kill you and f*** your wife, right?” [29:15]
• Insights from Kara’s recent expert interviews (Louis Theroux on the "Manosphere," Sen. Tillis on GOP politics).

---

Additional References & Timestamps

• [09:01] – Protest data and "tipping point"
• [16:31] – Scott’s scenario for US ground occupation strategies in Iran
• [21:48] – SpaceX valuation math and concerns
• [36:18] – Anthropic's legal victory language
• [38:49] – Brendan Carr criticism
• [54:46] – Podcast listener age vs. cable news median age comparison
• [68:28] – Sadness over young men's search for community in the manosphere

---

Summary prepared for listeners seeking insights on geopolitics, tech power dynamics, media business models, and political satire, with authentic Pivot style.

Transcript

[Kara Swisher]

Support for the show comes from Retool. Too many companies run critical operations on duct tape, spreadsheets, slack workflows, and whatever else they could cobble together. Not because they want to, because building internal tools means weeks of waiting on someone else's backlog. That's where Retool comes in. Build custom internal tools just by describing what you need. Prompt something like, build me a revenue dashboard for our salesforce data. And Retool actually builds it on your company's data in your cloud. With enterprise security built in. Go to retool.com pivot we all need to retool how we build software.

[Scott Galloway]

Support for the show comes from coreweave. Everywhere you look, AI is expanding what we thought was possible. And at the center of it all is coreweave. Medical research and diagnosis, education, complex visual effects for movies, science and technology breakthroughs. CoreWeave powers AI pioneers around the world with purpose built tech, building what's never been built before. CoreWeave is the essential cloud for AI. Ready for anything. Ready for AI to learn more about how CoreWeave powers the world's best AI, go to coreweave.com readyfor anything.

[Kara Swisher]

Support for this show comes from MongoDB. If you're a developer stuck fixing bottlenecks instead of building the next big thing, then you need MongoDB. Mongo is the flexible, unified platform that gets out of your way. It's ACID compliant, enterprise ready, and built to ship AI apps fast. And it's trusted by so many of the Fortune 500 with their most critical workloads. Developers have a word for that kind of reliability. Actually five words. It's a great fucking database. Start [e-mail] build he's gotta. I'm gonna tell him he can't talk that much. He's gotta limit his talking. Hi, everyone, this is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media podcast network. I'm Kara Swisher.

[Scott Galloway]

And I'm Scott Callaway.

[Kara Swisher]

Scott, I have officially left your apartment in New York state.

[Scott Galloway]

Oh, you moved into your new place?

[Kara Swisher]

Yes, I bought a small apartment in Brooklyn, in parks.

[Scott Galloway]

In Brooklyn, where all the cool kids are.

[Kara Swisher]

I have to say, I enjoyed it. We went this weekend, went to IKEA for 17 hours, which was fun. Actually bought a range of inexpensive furniture and it's very lovely, actually. It's very nice. I miss you. But I have to move on. Our relationship, our housing relationship.

[Scott Galloway]

So. Do you know how many times I've been to Brooklyn in 25 years?

[Kara Swisher]

How many?

[Scott Galloway]

Twice. Both times to be to Go to the Sohouse there. There's no reason to ever live the island unless you're going to JFK or la.

[Kara Swisher]

Gordon. We're very well known in Park Slope, I can tell you that. I got stopped.

[Scott Galloway]

I don't doubt it.

[Kara Swisher]

It was crazy.

[Scott Galloway]

Royalty in Brooklyn. Jesus Christ. I can't even imagine. Hi, Kara. Welcome to Brooklyn.

[Kara Swisher]

I know that's exactly what happened. It was nice. Two other things, let me just say, two other phenomena. So I have all these books that I get for my podcast, and probably you do too, right? I cannot get rid of them here. I put them out on the stoop in Brooklyn. They were gone. I have to say, I get all these free books and they're good books and they're all interesting, but I like the whole culture of people walking by and taking things and giving away things. It's really nice. And so we are now officially semi. We don't live there, but it's nice and anyone can stay. All you listeners can stay at my Brooklyn place now. You can stay. I extend an invitation to you, Scott Galloway.

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah, that's going to happen.

[Kara Swisher]

So it has IKEA furniture.

[Scott Galloway]

That's why you went to ikea.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, I love ikea.

[Scott Galloway]

Why do you like ikea?

[Kara Swisher]

Because it's. Because actually it's perfectly nice stuff. If you get the slightly more expensive stuff there, it's fine. And I have really nice furniture in where I live, and I just don't need more furniture.

[Scott Galloway]

When I was there, the IKEA saleslady wanted to have sex with me, but all I wanted was one night stand.

[Kara Swisher]

I don't believe you have an IKEA joke at the ready. I have to say, IKEA is like. It works really well. It's in Red Hook, and it was nice. The kids have a good time. We put them in small land. You know how everything has the weird names at ikea?

[Scott Galloway]

I don't. I don't think I've ever been to an ikea.

[Kara Swisher]

Oh, okay. In any case, there's a place to put children while you shop. It's like, so. And then you have meatballs at the end. It's really Swedish meatballs. The whole thing is fantastic. And pear soda. It's very pleasant.

[Scott Galloway]

So anyway, it's a phenomena.

[Kara Swisher]

It is. I still was making furniture all night long.

[Scott Galloway]

I don't know. IKEA for me is. Is like a porn video. And that is. I'll never be able to do the same thing at home. It just. It looks different at IKEA than my own home when I try it.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, well, I'M a lesbian, so I can assemble things. Well, I'm very good with.

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah, I was going to say, are you building a wood canoe in your living room?

[Kara Swisher]

I did. I have to build this bed. I gave up on it.

[Scott Galloway]

Woodwork.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah. The other thing I did and I want to recommend. I went to my friend Sean Hayes's show called the Unknown. And it's a little bit about the Internet. It's a little bit about. It's really good. It's a one man show. It's a molo. I think it's by David Kael. I think is the playwright. What a wonderful show. I have to. We had a really nice time.

[Scott Galloway]

Is this Broadway?

[Kara Swisher]

It's off Broadway. He started off Broadway.

[Scott Galloway]

Off Broadway, yeah. My Mexican friend builds all my IKEA furniture. I call him my instruction. I call him my instruction. Manuel.

[Kara Swisher]

Oh, my God. Just. Oh, God. Okay. All right.

[Scott Galloway]

Anyway, at least upgrade to West Elm.

[Kara Swisher]

I have West Elm stuff. I have. I have the other one.

[Scott Galloway]

I transitioned the brand of West Elm was one of my first clients.

[Kara Swisher]

I like West Elm, actually. They make. I have several. I have some. I have a West Elm bed here and I love it. I have.

[Scott Galloway]

You know what the strategy was? While I'm patting myself on the back, I. My first strategy engagement out of business school was helping position the Old Navy brand. And it was pretty easy. 80% of the gap for 50% of the price. And so my big insight at William Sonoma five years later was West Elm, 80% Pottery Barn for 50% of the price.

[Kara Swisher]

Oh, interesting. It's nicer than Pottery Barn. I think Pottery Barn sort of lost.

[Scott Galloway]

West Elm is the fastest zero to a billion dollar brands in history have been that axiom. 80% of the kind of industry leader for 50% of the price, whether it's Southwest or Old Navy or West Elm.

[Kara Swisher]

West Elm's a little nicer. And then there's the one room and board, which is nice. I get.

[Scott Galloway]

Oh, they do a great job.

[Kara Swisher]

They do beauty. I get a lot of their.

[Scott Galloway]

Not nearly as successful financially, though.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah. And then what's the one that has the big air couch? The big.

[Scott Galloway]

Well, Restoration Hardware.

[Kara Swisher]

Restoration Hardware. I have a. That's. That has. That has all of my stuff in San Francisco. I get Restoration Hardware.

[Scott Galloway]

Well, Gary, I used to be very into merchandising because I was in that business. So the greatest, in my opinion, the greatest merchant of the last 20 years is. Is Gary Friedman, the CEO of Restoration Hardware. Yeah. Yeah.

[Kara Swisher]

It's an interesting cloud couch.

[Scott Galloway]

He and I. He and I are Friends. He. He gave me a tour of their space and in the meatpacking district. It was really interesting in the restaurant, which I think does more dollars per square foot than the store combined. But they don't serve alcohol. Cause he said he wanted a safe place for women to come and just hang out. And then when people drink alcohol, they get rowdy and obnoxious, which I thought was interesting. So he doesn't serve hard alcohol.

[Kara Swisher]

Oh well, they have a beautiful store in Manhattan. They go to lunch there. It's nice. Anyway, I have different levels of furniture depending on the house. San Francisco's all restoration hardware. Anyway. All right, we'll move on because we gotta get to the. We love furniture. The furniture of privileged people on a furniture date. No, no. I went to Ikea. I assembled furniture this weekend. Anyway, before we get to the news this weekend, around 8 million people. One thing I didn't do, I didn't go to a no kings rally over. Cause I was assembling ikea Furniture. Over 3,300 events around the world. I went to the last one. I think over 200,000 people attended the flagship rally in Minnesota. Incredible crowds. Some signs stand out, including you can't bomb your way out of the Epstein files. My country went to hell. And all I got was this lousy ballroom and balls for grabs with a sign that said free balls for republic. They were. I love the signs. I. You know, it was really interesting. A lot of people. Eight million people. That's a lot of people. Was there one in London?

[Scott Galloway]

I'm in London. Although they did have a protest here, which I did. Which I didn't go to, but I don't know. I did what all lazy people do to Virtue Signal. I reposted. Yeah, I reposted other people sacrificing their Saturday.

[Kara Swisher]

I thought. No, it was. They looked wonderful and festive. I thought Bruce Spring. I thought they were also did. The messaging was excellent. I said it was affordability. It's about no kids. It was. Everybody has. All the progressives have modulate in a way that I think is very attractive. They're moving into the James Talarico version of Democrats. Right. The. Hey, what are we going to hear to help you? Affordability. We want a thing. And the one thing I really like, there was a picture, a beautiful picture of Joan Baez and Jane Fonda. And Jane Fonda that was with gray hair together. It was gorgeous.

[Scott Galloway]

I thought that was.

[Kara Swisher]

I just thought it was visually very attractive. I think there is a real movement of people of all these elections happening. And people are so sick of feeling bad and feeling like everything's a grift. It just feels there's definitely a tide. I don't know if these protests help, but I like them.

[Scott Galloway]

I think they're supposedly. Well, first off, it just feels, and I say this all the time, but my buddy Dan Harris, action absorbs anxiety. It feels really good to do things with other people. And Timothy Snyder says that protests start to build an infrastructure for organization and taking names and people get invested in it. So they want to turn out again and they want to register people to vote. And also supposedly, the supposedly there's a tipping point where if you get three and a half percent of the population to demonstrate, that usually connotes change. So this wasn't that because that would be, I think about 11 or 12 million people. Just some data here. The October protest drew roughly 7 million and Saturday's turnout was 9 million. So it's building. And what's interesting or the most piece of data I thought is that two thirds of the RSVPs came from outside major urban centers, including, including conservative leaning states such as Idaho, Wyoming, Montana, Utah, South Dakota, Montana.

[Kara Swisher]

I saw that. Yeah, those protests, that takes a thing for people to do things like that there, like the villages. Did you see all the little villages cards?

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah, yeah.

[Kara Swisher]

That was kind of cool.

[Scott Galloway]

When what is traditionally very conservative and also the kind of. The flagship was at Minneapolis where almost a quarter of a million people turned out. Springsteen performed. You mentioned Joan Baez and Jane Fonda, Maggie Rogers and Senator Barney spot to do it. So just some context. The women's march in January 2017, previously considered the largest single day protest in US history, drew an estimated 3.3 to 5.6 million people. So this was bigger. The BLM protests in June of 2020 drew an estimated 15 to 26 million people, but over several weeks. But that was spread across multiple days. So if the 9 million person turnout estimate hold, Saturday's protest would be the largest single day demonstration in American history.

[Kara Swisher]

People are tired and they want to do something and it's not hopeless. I went to the women's one. I actually, I took my sons to that. I made them wear pussy hats. Well, that's the way it goes. Anyway, we had actually had a wonderful time. I like doing things like that with my kids because they can see things in action. Okay, moving on. President Trump says the US is in serious discussions with the new regime in Iran, but he's also threatening to completely destroy key energy sites if it deals not reach. That's A nice way to negotiate. This is the Pentagon preparing for what could be weeks of ground operations in Iran. According to the Washington Post, total number of US troops in the Mideast are now 50,000. Around 50,000. That is insane amounts of people. Roughly 10,000 higher than typical levels. The Iranian military is warning that any US occupation would lead to captivity, dismemberment and disappearance. It is worrisome with all those people there, there's always something bad going to happen. And as the war drags on, markets are sliding down. With NASDAQ and Dow falling into correction territory last week and the S and P about 7% markets are sort of a trailing indicator of some of this stuff, I think. But I think it creates a jittery feeling just cause of the shifting back and forth. And if you noticed a lot of Trump people, especially Marco Rubio and J.D. vance were not on any of the Sunday shows. They're avoiding. All the cabinet members are avoiding the Sunday shows. I had a really interesting interview before I went to New York with Thom Tillis, which I think you should all listen to. It's up today. I mean, he was expressing great distaste for this whole action. We had a. He's obviously a very conservative senator from North Carolina. He's leaving Congress so he feels like he can say whatever he wants, which he did. So what do you think's happening here, Scott? I mean, the back and forth and the people are sort of trying to get out of the Trump blast zone on this situation. I'm sorry to use that metaphor, but.

[Scott Galloway]

Well, to say it's complicated is an understatement. But I'm one of the people that would argue that we've been at war with Iran for the last 47 years. The first act of this regime in 1979 was to take Americans hostage. The question is, is this escalation in the war, was it a smart idea? And I think if it had gone 72 hours in terms of getting some coordination with European allies and even Gulf wars, you could have potentially declared victory and really had a win. But this is kind of the definition of a quagmire. And that is, I'm not sure at this point he has any choice but to put boots on the ground because I, and I had Senator Warner on my podcast. I would argue at this point, Kara, Iran is winning. That the IRGC has shown that they can push back the great Satans of Israel and the United States. And at the end of the day, I think this is an enormous failure of our intelligence Director Tulsi Gabbard to not contemplate or consider a scenario where they cut off the Straits of Hormuz.

[Kara Swisher]

But she probably advised that she didn't want to go. She's the America First, Greg. Her advance are on the maybe not so much kind of group.

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah, but you. Okay, but they, they're claiming now that they're going to try and work with their allies. We're all saying fuck you if you're going to be this much of a prick to us. But they're doing shit in reverse order. They should have secured the Straits of Foremost before doing this. Of course they should have contemplated, well, what happens if they start firing Shahad drones that cost $20,000 and it costs us 2 million to shoot them down? What if they start firing them into Dubai? So some basic scenario planning and intelligence from the people.

[Kara Swisher]

Char, I think he got that. I think some guy told him to do this.

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah, but there's no leadership. It doesn't matter if it doesn't bubble up.

[Kara Swisher]

Which is what Tillis said. Tillis was like, he always tries very hard not to insult Trump himself, but he's like the advisors and he's particularly, for example, went after Stephen Miller on immigration. He particularly goes after the advisors. He's like, he's either you have an advisor who's stupid and just like tells them dumb things or you have an advisor who knows better, who says nothing. Right. Who doesn't. Who tries to like assuage the president versus and he goes either way, his advisors suck. You know, and I think that's true. But at some point it's treating Trump like a toddler. Oh, we managed to keep him this or that. So it's a complicated situation. There is this guy wants to do what he wants to do now and he has advisors who are either too weak to tell him the truth or tell him the truth and then get fired or slapped for it kind of stuff. I don't know. It's a problematic situation. It's certainly not the group of rivals that Lincoln had.

[Scott Galloway]

Well, but a lot of people would argue on the opposite side that basically Secretary Rubio is the shadow president making these decisions and so is his son in law, Kushner. So, you know, which is it? Is he listening to people or is he not? Because to me, this is just such a striking intelligence failure to not do some basic scenario planning around what if. And we are now in a position of weakness where I mean the general, not the consensus. But when I speak to people in the intelligence community, there's a Feeling okay, the most obvious next step here is that he feels to save face because the IRGC has said, fuck you. You can pretend you're talking to us, we're not talking back. Right. Or you're not sending dispersed. We did scenario planning. We anticipated what if our leadership is killed and they have dispersed military and executive authority out to the various regions. So they're like cut off the head of the snake. That's okay. The snake's gonna keep moving. So there was no basic essential, basic scenario planning here. And the general feeling is that he will land troops potentially on Kharg island and then try and secure Kharg and do a deal to exchange Kharg for opening the Straits of Hormuz.

[Kara Swisher]

Right? No, but that's what we had before. Like one of the things that I'm

[Scott Galloway]

not arguing it's we're in a good spot.

[Kara Swisher]

One of the things when I talk to Tillis and when I also talked to Warner, is that the same thing you're talking about these drones and everything else, they like the word obliterate, that he obliterated it months ago, the nuclear facilities, but now he's obliterating more and you know, tell us who's sort of hat seems to have run out of Fox was like, yeah, we obliterated it again. And then we obliterated it.

[Scott Galloway]

Like, you know, that's like to say you obliterate. All right. So essentially, well, he was making fun of Trump.

[Kara Swisher]

I believe that's what was happening there.

[Scott Galloway]

Again, the key word in all of this coming out of Ukraine and now this war is asymmetry. And that is wars and the shaping of energy routes and ability to solve things when diplomatic means have failed, have been based on very expensive platforms and technology no one else had access to. It has gone the entirely other way. And now you can essentially build a drone for $20,000 with a two stroke engine similar to what's in a motorcycle. And that's like to say you're going to obliterate it. If we all of a sudden declared war on Texas and most of the Southwest actually, which Iran is bigger than and said, okay, how do you find every little factory that's pulling together lawnmowers? That's what you're up against. You're not going to be able. And then they launch 40 of these things and the defense systems get confused and all you need. It's similar to the Department of Homeland Security or the FBI. They have to stop every terrorist attack. Right. And the notion that just one ship is set on fire or the Burj Khalifa is taken down in Dubai. That's all they need. And what's actually stopping this? And you can imagine if you're transporting tens or hundreds of millions of dollars of a product called oil through a dangerous area, there needs to be insurance against that payment, against that substance arriving at its destination. In other words, there's cross party collateralization in insurance. And right now I argue it's actually holding up the Straits of Hormuz is. I don't believe any insurance company is willing to insure these tankers right now.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, I don't know what I would do if I was running these companies. Anyway, we'll see what happens. It's still confusing and it's gone on far too long. This confusing. And I think that's the real problem. He's really stuck in a quagmire.

[Scott Galloway]

A quagmire. This is the deputation painted in a corner painter. And if he had after 72 hours said, We've further diminished their ability to fund proxies. We have substantially denigrated their launch capabilities. We have made the leadership infrastructure much more insecure and diminished it vastly. We are now going to work with our Gulf allies and European nations to try and maintain a sense of security and keep it in a box. He probably could have declared at some

[Kara Swisher]

level victory, but Scott, chaos follows this guy. Chaos is his brand right now, anyway.

[Scott Galloway]

Agreed.

[Kara Swisher]

Let's move on. The boys are really back together. Speaking of chaos, Elon Musk probably joined a phone call with President Trump and India's Prime Minister Modi about the Strait of Hormuz. It's unclear whether Musk spoke on the call and neither government mentioned his presence in the official readouts. Meanwhile, as we all know, SpaceX is preparing to launch the largest IPO of all time, reportedly targeting a $1.75 trillion valuation, which is kind of a lot over their revenues. But okay, fine. It's a Musk company. Musk reportedly wants to have investors come to SpaceX to see facilities and rocket launches. He does that a lot. He invites people in to show off his wares, impressive wares. He's doing that with robotics too, which are pretty cool. The company is also considering lim share sales by early investors, a preferential treatment for investors in Musk's other companies, which is why they suck up Doom. So that's why they buy Twitter, so they can get into this. And reserving a large portion of the shares for individual investors. That's fine. That's great. Speaking of making amends, with his enemies. Text released as part of Musk's lawsuit against OpenAI show that Zuckerberg tested Musk saying, looks like Doge is making progress. I've got our teams on alert to take down context, doxxing or threatening the people on your team. Let me know if there's anything I can do to help. Oh, he does want a content moderate. Musk hearted the message and then asked Zuckerberg would be open to bidding on OpenAI with him, which the two seem to have spoken about on the phone. I mean, these people say one thing in public and another in private, but talk first about the phone call, then the ipo. And you know, Mark Zuckerberg will talk to anybody if it means a deal. So that's what I think about that.

[Scott Galloway]

I don't have a problem with the president inviting people into a call that he thinks can help achieve the objectives, whether it's someone who has domain expertise, whether Musk is the right person to have on a call. But I think the President should bring to bear any resources he thinks is going to result in a more productive conversation.

[Kara Swisher]

Sure, I guess.

[Scott Galloway]

And Modi probably wants Starlink. Or maybe Modi and Musk have a preexisting relationship. Who knows? Or maybe like you said, he's just showing him off. The staggering thing for me is I can't wait for the S1 because the target valuation of $1.8 trillion, this company, it's projected or generated roughly 15 to 16 billion and about 8 billion in profit in 2025. That means at the IPO, it's trading at 109 times trailing revenue.

[Kara Swisher]

That's a must company. Right? Are you going to do like you did with WeWork? I love.

[Scott Galloway]

Oh, but that's more than. Oh, no, no. This is a real company. It might be overvalued, but wework as it's scaled, lots more money. This is a company with an unbelievable product and moats. But two things can be true at once. Is it an unbelievable company with, I think probably the widest moats in the business world right now? Absolutely, for now. But everyone feels like a distant number two. Like, who's the number two here?

[Kara Swisher]

I don't know. I think people will catch up in this. I think. I think it's going to take a while. Everyone said no in a catch. Everyone caught Tesla and it was a lot faster than we thought. Right.

[Scott Galloway]

But manufacturing, manufacturing EV versus launched capability.

[Kara Swisher]

I just, I think, you know, you

[Scott Galloway]

think someone's going to catch up.

[Kara Swisher]

I think Bezos is working on it. I Think a lot of countries, there's the ones happening in Europe, I think, look, it's not going to be the only one. And everyone's going to be like, why are we. You know, it's sort of like the Lockheed problem. Right. I think a lot of people think it's an attractive thing.

[Scott Galloway]

90% of launches, I get it early. They are the.

[Kara Swisher]

Remember when he said it?

[Scott Galloway]

They are the only company in the world right now that is capable of putting humans into space.

[Kara Swisher]

Yep, yep.

[Scott Galloway]

And when you look at space and whether it's energy or connectivity or, or, or space, military or space defense, they're all, for a while, gonna have to come through SpaceX at the same time, no question. At the same time, is it worth 109 times revenue?

[Kara Swisher]

I don't think it's a Tesla situation. Tesla is declining precipitously and yet it still trades at a ridiculous.

[Scott Galloway]

But Musk owns roughly 42% of SpaceX, so this IPO could make him the first recorded trillionaire in history. And on Kalshi, the odds that he'll become a trillionaire this year are 71%. So there's almost a 3 in 4 chance, according to a lot of people, that Musk is about to become a trillionaire. And that is, in my view, really troubling because I think as a species we need guardrails. And money directly translates to power. And I don't think any unelected person should have this much power.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, he definitely pushes himself into every single aspect of our lives, you know, in some way. And he'll do it more so politically

[Scott Galloway]

well, with a trillion dollars. Say he takes, say he says, okay, I'm going to die soon and I want to be worth 5 trillion and I want to decide who the next president is. I'm going to take 3% of my net worth, which would be $30 billion. There's evidence that he had an influence on Trump's election with 250 million. So with.

[Kara Swisher]

But he didn't in Wisconsin with 25. That's a lot in that state. I think it's a mixed bag. When he shows up, it's a lot of money. When he shows up, it's a lot of. Yeah, no Citizens United.

[Scott Galloway]

And a guy being worth a trillion dollars. Agreed is really scary.

[Kara Swisher]

It also has effects of. If this guy is. He's like the Soros or he's the Soros of the right essentially now. Right. On some level. And I do think it has a negative impact and alerts people to this situation that he. I don't think money buys everything. He's failed in a number of areas. Like Doge, he's failed and like, he fails quite a bit, which of course is his. His brand is I fail and then I succeed.

[Scott Galloway]

I think in a close election, which most presidential elections are, he could absolutely swing it.

[Kara Swisher]

He already has. He already has had more impact than any individual in recent history, especially killing people across the globe with Doge, I mean, again, we'll see what happens here, but they certainly. It's going to be the blockbuster ipo and it will be overvalued by a lot given, you know, they'll have a lot of skis to cover and then they'll have the money to do so. Right. To sort of create that moat. Even. Incredible.

[Scott Galloway]

It's an incredible. I won't even call it a product because what it really is, it's global infrastructure. They have the largest commercial satellite constellation, which, by the way, is no longer NASA. It's SpaceX. And as of May 2025, Starlink controlled more than 7,600 satellites, or two thirds of all active satellites in orbit. The majority of new satellites launched globally in late 2024 were Starlink. And SpaceX plans to scale to 42,000 satellites. That's up six fold.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah. Peak controls globally, Global Information System, making

[Scott Galloway]

Starlink the de facto broadband backbone in space. And projections for the end of 2025, 6 million subscribers and 62% of global satellite broadband revenue going to one company. And most competitors can match SpaceX's price cadence or reliability.

[Kara Swisher]

I know Facebook has tried, Amazon has tried. They're all trying. I always feel like these are these high watermarks for these people, but that's. You have to hand it to him. I remember when he talked about it for the first time, the creating this. Two people were talking about this at the time. Him. And oddly enough, Jerry Yang had an investment in a low. And it's the first time I learned of it. So I got real. I got caught up on the topic, like, what it was going to do. But Jerry Yang had an investment in one and he's the first person who talked about it. And then Musk, that same year, started talking about it. This was a long, long, long time ago. And it was really at the time, I remember thinking, no one's talking like this like everyone else was, like doing a fucking dating service or some dumb thing.

[Scott Galloway]

It comes down to some very boring numbers. And that is the cost to launch a kilogram of material, usually a satellite, into low earth orbit. And this is what SpaceX's Falcon Heavy rocket can launch into a kilogram for. They can launch a kilogram into space for $1,500. Arianes 5G. It costs them $9,200.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, they gotta go.

[Scott Galloway]

Their Electron product costs 19,000. Their launches. SpaceX's launches occur every two to three days. No other provider is within range. So they are 6x less expensive.

[Kara Swisher]

The Chinese certainly have capabilities here. So anyway.

[Scott Galloway]

Do they? I don't know that much about Chinese launches.

[Kara Swisher]

They do. You know, one of the things. It'll be interesting to see what happens here and what. But these forces are really powerful and he is a very powerful single person. It does put him at great risk too of being not a physical target. That's not what I'm talking about. But when something like this happens, there's always forces against it that I think that will start to build. He becomes Soros. He becomes Soros in a weird way,

[Scott Galloway]

but I feel much more benign about Soros. Why do you think?

[Kara Swisher]

Well, I do too, but I'm talking about to the right or the Koch brothers. Like pick whatever one who's. Or Henry Ford. Back in the day there was also a Texas billionaire and I can't remember his name a million years, like in the 20s that did stuff like that.

[Scott Galloway]

But there's a different. Like SOS and Kirk, the Koch brothers, they were all quite philanthropic.

[Kara Swisher]

Well, not him, not. Not Elon for sure.

[Scott Galloway]

Musk is not. And Musk is infinitely more powerful and has a technology that can basically decide wars. And this is a guy who is reportedly addicted to ketamine.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, that's what I mean. There's a lot of what could go wrong. Things are wrong. Let me just tell you. I'm glad.

[Scott Galloway]

It does feel like a Bond film, but less believable.

[Kara Swisher]

Krista Swisher is glad she's in Park Slop. I'll be protected by the lesbians.

[Scott Galloway]

Oh yeah, you're safe in Brooklyn. Yeah. A nuclear device gets detonated 500 meters above Midtown. Yeah, Brooklyn's going to be fine.

[Kara Swisher]

No, what I mean is that like if he's coming after me, he's not a fan of Cariswisher, but maybe you should make nice with him.

[Scott Galloway]

That's what I don't get about. I talked to one of these guys that is building the bunker in New Zealand, a guy you know, and I'm like, you realize if shit gets real and you fire up the G650 and head to peace out to New Zealand, you realize your. Your pilots are going to kill you and fuck Your wife, right?

[Kara Swisher]

That's correct.

[Scott Galloway]

The table went quiet.

[Kara Swisher]

I know I said that to one of them who had a plan. I said, what's your plan? I said, I'm going to kill you and take your motorcycle out to New York. I was like, of course. And then they were like. You could see them calculating. How do I stop Kara from killing me? I said, you won't see me coming.

[Scott Galloway]

You think if. If. If the shit goes to where these things people think it's going, this. The people that die right away are the lucky ones.

[Kara Swisher]

Exactly. I sometimes think that living in Washington, I feel about that. Anyway, let's not go there. Let's not go there. Congratulations, Elon Musk, on your SpaceX. Victory.

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah, on your SpaceX.

[Kara Swisher]

Terrible person. No matter how rich you get, you're completely unlikable. Anyway, I have to say one Brooklyn thing. So I was. There was this crazy cybertruck parked across the street. I thought, oh, who's doing this? Right where my apartment is? And it was tricked out. It was all manner of shit on it. I didn't know it was some sort of commercial thing. And. And, you know, there's a bunch of teen boys, and they weren't. They were just hanging out. And I thought first they were, like, admiring it. And what was really funny is. And they weren't sort of typical parks. I'm trying to, like, they were sort of sitting in front of it, like, talking about it. I went over and I'm like, what do you think? And I wasn't making opinion. They're like, what a douche. And it was like. They were like. It was interesting because I just interviewed Louis Theroux. Theroux, who's just.

[Scott Galloway]

Oh, you interviewed about the Manosphere.

[Kara Swisher]

Yes, exactly.

[Scott Galloway]

You're beating me to my content.

[Kara Swisher]

I'm so sor. I'm way ahead of you.

[Scott Galloway]

How was it? That's Justin's cousin.

[Kara Swisher]

Fantastic. I know it's Justin's cousin. He's also a great filmmaker. I gotta say, what was really interesting is one thing he pointed out is even though a lot of these manosphere guys are really popular, there's also a whole group of young men who are like. They mock them and enjoy being in on the joke and mocking them at the same time, and also liking some of it, but mocking them. And that was going on in front of this cybertruck. They're, like, such a douche. But, like, whatever. And they were so cool. And I was like, oh, I feel so much better about you after talking to these guys, because they Were so cool. And they also were in on the joke and I don't know, I just felt better. Anyway. Yes, Louis, yes. It was great. And we talked of you.

[Scott Galloway]

Oh, good. We talked of you. I'm supposed to have him on. I wrote a. In my nomorous amounts. I wrote a review of the show.

[Kara Swisher]

I loved it.

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah, it was really illuminating for me.

[Kara Swisher]

Can I tell you the one line I love the best of all? I like his interview style. And I was actually looking at, as a professional how he does the interview style.

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah, I agree.

[Kara Swisher]

When he's working, when he's hr, whatever, T. Diddy, whatever, Tiki talkie, whatever, Tiktokie, he was working out and he goes, is this your leg day? He's British. And the guy goes, of course it is. Of course. You know, like, like an asshole. And like shows off his thigh, which is quite a beefy thigh. And Louis, Louis, Louis looks at him and he goes, you could work on those calves. And the guy just melts. And I was like, I love you, Louis Theroux. I love him. He pronounced it Theroux, unlike Justin. They pronounce it differently. Anyway, he has all these lines like that in there that he just eviscerates these people with kindness in a way that's really.

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah, I agree.

[Kara Swisher]

It's a really good show. Anyway, Elon, Good luck, Elon. You can work on your calves. Okay, Scott, let's go on a quick break. When we come back, Anthropic scores a win against the Pentagon. Support for this show comes from Framer. Your website can set the tone for your brand. And it's the one touch point that every single one of your customers sees on the daily. So if you still struggle to make small changes or simple updates, you're potentially leaving opportunities on the table. That's why so many companies are turning to Framer, the website builder that turns your dot com from a formality into a tool for growth. Framer is an enterprise grade no code website builder used by teams at companies like Perplexity and Miro to move faster with real time collaboration and robust cms. With everything you need for great SEO and advanced analytics that include integrated a B testing, your designers and marketers are empowered to build and maximize your dot com. From day one, changes to your Framer site go live to the web in seconds with one click without help from engineering. So whether you want to launch a new site, test a few landing pages, or migrate your full dot com, Framer has programs for startups, scale ups and large enterprises to make going from Idea to Live site as easy and fast as possible. Learn how you can get more out of your.com from a framer specialist or get started building for free [e-mail] pivot for 30% off a framework framer pro annual plan. That's framer.com pivot for 30% OFF framer.com pivot rules and restrictions apply

[Scott Galloway]

Support for Pivot comes from Anthropic. Some questions are easy, but other questions are a lot more complicated than a simple yes or no. And when you're deep in the weeds trying to find an answer to one of those problems, you want a partner who works just as hard as you do. And Claude from Anthropic was designed to be that partner. Claude is the AI for minds that don't stop at good enough. It's a collaborator that actually understands your entire workflow and thinks with you. Whether you're debugging code at midnight or strategizing your next business move. Cloud extends your thinking to tackle the problems that matter. And with Cloud, you can actually build interactive tools and apps to help your workflow. Just describe what you need, from custom calculators to data visualization dashboards or even prototypes, and Claude can cover it all without writing a single line of code. Plus, Cloud's research capabilities go deeper than basic web search. It can have comprehensive, reliable analysis with proper citations, turning hours of research into minutes, ready to tackle bigger problems? Get started with Cloud today at Cloud AI Pivot. That's Claude, AI Pivot, and check out Cloud Pro, which includes access to all of the features mentioned in today's episode. Cloud AI Pivot

[Kara Swisher]

Eczema is unpredictable, but you can flare less with epglis, a once monthly treatment for moderate to severe eczema. After an initial four month or longer dosing phase, about four in ten people taking ebglis achieved itch relief and clear or almost clear skin at 16 weeks, and most of those people maintain skin that's still more clear at one year with monthly dosing.

[Pharmaceutical Ad Voice]

Empclus Lebricizumab LBKZ, a 250mg per 2ml injection, is a prescription medicine used to treat adults and children 12 years of age and older who weigh at least 88 pounds or 40 kilograms with moderate to severe eczema, also called atopic dermatitis, that is not well controlled with prescription therapies used on the skin or topicals, or who cannot use topical therapies. EBGLIS can be used with or without topical corticosteroids don't use if you are allergic to ebglis. Allergic reactions can occur that can be severe. Eye problems can occur. Tell your doctor if you have new or worsening eye problems. You should not receive a live vaccine when treated with ebglis. Before starting Epglis, tell your doctor if you have a parasitic infection.

[Kara Swisher]

Ask your doctor about fglis and visit evglis.lily.com or call 1-800-lilyrx or 1-800-545-5979. Scott we're back. Anthropic just scored a win in its fight with the Trump administration. Obviously a federal judge in California granted a preliminary injunction temporarily blocking the Pentagon's efforts to label the company a supply chain risk. The judge didn't mince words in her ruling saying this is a classic illegal First Amendment retaliation. Exactly. She also called it a quote, Orwellian notion to brand an American company a potential adversary for expressing disagreement. The Pentagon is pushing back, expected to appeal, of course, with senior official Emile Michael, another loathsome character, tweeting, the ruling is a disgrace. Oh, and me, I'll get over it. The final decision in this case could still be months away. There's also a second lawsuit pending in D.C. anthropic won the battle. You know it's problematic to be in this ridiculous fight. I think it'll be over by midterms when they jack Hegseth out of the place. But also a potent and Emile too, also a potential factor. Anthropic is really considering going public as soon as October. That is problematic for them. So what do you, what do you and related A federal judge has put on hold the $6.2 billion merger between Nexstar and Tegna, which would create the largest operator of local TV in the country, 69% over the former 30 some percent amount you're allowed to bring together. The judge granted a request from DirecTV arguing the merger violates antitrust laws. A 14 day restraining order has been issued and a hearing is scheduled for April 7th. Eight attorneys, attorneys general have filed a separate lawsuit. I'm going to just play this. Let's listen to what our least favorite FCC chair, Brenda Carr. I'm sorry, Brendan Carr had to say it. Cpac.

[Scott Galloway]

President Trump took on the fake news

[Podcast Promo Voice 1]

media and President Trump is winning. Look at the results so far.

[Scott Galloway]

PBS defunded, NPR defunded. Joy Reid gone from msnbc. Sleepy eye Chuck Todd gone. J. Jim Acosta gone. John Dickerson gone. Colbert is leaving. CBS is under new ownership and soon enough CNN is going to have New ownership as well.

[Kara Swisher]

Boy, this guy is just, just not doing his job. Honestly, it's. Seriously, he's such a suck up to the Trump administration. He's just explicit about it. And he's also not very smart. He's a moron. So talk about these, these nextar. The, the anthropic thing. It looks like everything as usual Trump does. He does something aggressive and stupid and loses in court, but he still does damage. So talk. And then you can talk about Brenda if you want, but that's up to you.

[Scott Galloway]

Well, I'll go in reverse order. Brendan Carr has no business in the federal government. You're not supposed to go into the government to use it as a means of attacking your political enemies. And freedom of speech.

[Kara Swisher]

Yep.

[Scott Galloway]

I mean, just the notion this guy makes Goebbels look thoughtful and that is directly calling out people who don't agree with your political views and then weaponizing government to try and get people whose views you don't agree with off the air. It's just so blatant. Okay, so when we get to a point in FCC chair, we're going to go after Hannity and I mean, is that where we're headed? Do you want us to start?

[Kara Swisher]

Let him blather on his idiotic stuff. I don't care. He annoys me.

[Scott Galloway]

No, it's just not qualified to be in government with respect to anthropic. Most major AI companies have bent the knee to the government and worked with them in any military context. Last year, Google dropped its ethical guidelines that included a list of applications it would not pursue, including weapons and surveillance.

[Kara Swisher]

But it used to be able to do so without a problem.

[Scott Galloway]

Is that right? And then they put in guidelines and then they. I thought they were. They relaxed their guidelines.

[Kara Swisher]

They did relax them, but I'm saying they used to be able to say no and nobody had a problem. They just didn't work for them, that's all.

[Scott Galloway]

Well, that's the whole point of private enterprise is you get to choose your. You can fire your clients. Just the way consumers get to pick companies, companies get to pick their consumers. Unless it's based on sexual orientation or race or what have you. Meta changed its policy to allow U.S. government agencies and contractors to access its llama models for national security purposes. OpenAI, which once stated its goal was to benefit humanity as a whole, now has multiple contracts with the military and defense contractors. And by the way, I don't mind when companies like Palantir say we're going to work with the government in the defense Department. I get it. But you should also have the right to not to. I don't. So Anthropic is really. They're the only major AI company that has drawn a public line on autonomous weapons and mass surveillance, and now it's the only one being punished for it. Right.

[Kara Swisher]

But it's also winning in court, which is good, but it's still. Is it problematic for the IPO from your perspective?

[Scott Galloway]

Well, it depends.

[Kara Swisher]

It's called fall ipo.

[Scott Galloway]

The threat to the IPO is a bunch of companies say there are alternatives out there. We appreciate your stand, Dario, but for the time being, we're not expanding our enterprise wide relationship with you because we don't want to be put on a list. Now, having said that, Having said that, again, see above, what I believe is the biggest commercial opportunity in decades is to say no. And if you look at what's happened to Anthropic, they're now getting 70 cents on the dollar of every new AI dollar being allocated to AI from the enterprise. So it looks as if their ability to say no and get a court to say, yeah, this is bullshit. This is socialism, cronyism, whatever you want to call it. I think Anthropic right now, I've said that I think Anthropic at this moment is worth more than OpenAI. What happens is the mark that people invest at is a bit illusory because if they get a preferred return, meaning no matter what happens, they get their money out sooner, or they're getting a guaranteed 17.5% return, which is what Sam is offering to private equity firms, then that $850 billion number is a bit of a head fake because as long as I'm getting 17.5%, regardless of what it goes public at, but I would argue right now the momentum around Anthropic is really strong and the momentum around OpenAI is really weight.

[Kara Swisher]

So you think it won't affect it? What about the nexstar thing? Speaking a moron, Brendan.

[Scott Galloway]

Well, we heard. I was actually really moved. A lot of people pushed back on my comments about how local news is a dying business. And a lot of people pushed back and said, I hate to hear this, it's really important work. And also, to be fair, there's a lot of local corruption and the only check on it is local news. Seven. I remember seven on your side.

[Kara Swisher]

Seven on your side.

[Scott Galloway]

From the hills to the seas to the San Gabriel mountains I'm Jerry Dunfield, who, by the way, Ted Baxter from Mary Tyler Moore was based on, supposedly wasn't supposedly Jerry wasn't very smart, but he had broad shoulders and just made you feel safe.

[Kara Swisher]

I love local news. I used to watch it all the time. I loved Dorian Gensler in D.C. when I was in college.

[Scott Galloway]

And they also had Bruce Hershelson and Jim Tunney in Point Counterpoint, where they would have. And that 27 minutes of real news was bested by the three minutes of two people arguing like crazy.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah. Can I tell you, if it had been that era, you and I would have been a good local news team.

[Scott Galloway]

Oh, I would have predicted, hell, the size of canned tomatoes. I would have loved being a weatherman. I actually took meteorology my senior year when I was trying to figure out what the fuck to do with my life my senior year in college, I thought I could be a weatherman, and I took meteorology. I definitely thought I was. I was thinking about a weatherman.

[Kara Swisher]

I was going to go in the military and you were going to be a weatherman. And here we are. I would have been an absolute April, not standing next to the president.

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah. David Letterman started as a weatherman anyways, but we got pushback saying how important. Or I got pushed back saying how important local news is. And so I agree. They do a great job that, you know, God be with you. Yeah.

[Kara Swisher]

So nexstar Techno.

[Scott Galloway]

Okay, Sorry. A judge has temporarily blocked. What is it, a $6 billion merger.

[Kara Swisher]

Yep.

[Scott Galloway]

Between Nexstar and Tegna, which would create the largest operator.

[Kara Swisher]

And It's a number from 30 some percent to 69%.

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah, two thirds, basically. They'll have a lock on it.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah.

[Scott Galloway]

And a U.S. district judge. I think it's in Sacramento, granted temporary restraining order and siding with Directive E, who argued Director Ev. God, they're still around. Which argued the merger violates federal antitrust laws. And eight state attorney generals, led by California's Rob Bonta, filed a separate lawsuit suit. And then in the ruling, he noted that companies do not contest the merger will increase nexstar's bargaining leverage to extract higher fees. And what does the ruling mean? It means that Nexstar and Tegna can't integrate operations for 14 days. A hearing is set for April 7 to decide whether to issue a preliminary injunction. So like you said, if the merger goes through, Nexstar would own roughly 260 television stations across the country, reaching about 60% of U.S. households. And like you said before, it was about 39%. And the deal does violate FCC rules limiting how many stations a single company can operate.

[Kara Swisher]

Well, Brenda, let it through, but go ahead.

[Scott Galloway]

As we Said, look, it's not a great business to be in unless you're in a swing district where they just basically start trying to advertise like crazy. Less than half of television stations report generating any profits from news. And last year, about 40% of surveyed local television stations reported decreasing their news budget. And local television has lost, get this, about half of its media spending market share since. Since 2017. The business has been cut in half in the last nine years. And as of June last year, local TV accounted for just 6% of total media spend. Digital video, on the other hand, accounts for about 50%. So look, I don't. I mean, we're gonna. I think at some point we gotta end up with. And people hate the BBC, but I like a certain amount of public funding.

[Kara Swisher]

They're troubled right now. We should talk about that. But later, another time.

[Scott Galloway]

But a certain amount. Amount of public funding for what I'll call local. Yeah, local public news. I think there's, like, what Craig Newmark did. I think it's really important. And I don't know if it's a philanthropist. I don't know if it's government funding like we do with the BBC here with a house tax.

[Kara Swisher]

I don't think anyone should own 60% of any industry.

[Scott Galloway]

Even if it's. That does feel uncomfortable.

[Kara Swisher]

Even if it's dying, I don't care. They can eke out a good little business from it and influence things in ways that just. And they're also. They're the ones that sort of suck up to Brenda during the Kimmel thing.

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah.

[Kara Swisher]

You know, I just. Nobody. I don't want a liberal running 60%. I don't want anybody. Like, I just feel like it needs to be dispersed. Even if that problem is like a lot of media. It's a bad business if you don't have monopolies. And then it's just an okay business. I don't know, whatever it's. I hope they stop it, but they're not going to. But nonetheless, I hope then the industry dies and I hope there's.

[Scott Galloway]

I'm torn. I just wonder.

[Kara Swisher]

I just wonder entrepreneurial local efforts going on. And there are a lot of them, by the way, across the country, in Mississippi, in Baltimore. So let's just have new stuff and forget these compromise.

[Scott Galloway]

I'm shocked you didn't bring up Vox. The art company's in play.

[Kara Swisher]

Oh, yes. Oh, yes. Would you like to discuss that?

[Scott Galloway]

Well, I have. First off, let me say I have absolutely no insider information here.

[Kara Swisher]

And I have a lot.

[Scott Galloway]

You have A lot. I'm on the outside.

[Kara Swisher]

I'm on the inside.

[Scott Galloway]

Supposedly Vox is in discussions with Comcast, who is an existing shareholder.

[Kara Swisher]

To take Versant, not Comcast.

[Scott Galloway]

I'm sorry, Versant. Yeah. Which on Samus, like Croissant, MSNBC and cnbc to take the pods. Then they would sell the digital business and also sell off NY Mag. And the way I would loosely describe it is the digital stuff is a shitty business. Getting worse. Anytime you're dependent upon Amazon, Meta and Google, eventually they will screw you and take all the margin. Those are difficult businesses. The New York magazine is a trophy asset. What do I mean by that? That there is some crypto or hedge fund douche that will pay an extraordinary amount of money to own New York magazine.

[Kara Swisher]

There's a lot of people. It does well, too. It's not like a big.

[Scott Galloway]

It'll trade at an irrational price. Yeah, football teams make no money. They get sold for 5, 7, and $10 billion because some guy wants to go from being an overweight tech guy to the sexiest man in Cleveland by owning the Browns overnight.

[Kara Swisher]

Okay, can I just say, it's also a really good journalistic enterprise. And. And it does. Okay, I'm sorry.

[Scott Galloway]

I'm gonna make that okay. It won't go for an okay price. I'm saying it'll go for an irrational price.

[Kara Swisher]

It's a nice price.

[Scott Galloway]

The new owner is not gonna be into it for the cash flow or for journalism. The new owner is gonna be someone who wants to say, I own NY Mag. It's like owning billionaires own football teams, Democrats own media companies. It'll go for. It's a.

[Kara Swisher]

So Scott will be buying it soon.

[Scott Galloway]

It's a trophy asset. No, I'm sponsoring the Met gala. I don't know if you heard. And I'm taking Emily Ratajkowski if that's what it takes.

[Kara Swisher]

I don't wanna. You're not discussing her because you didn't introduce yourself when you were in her presence.

[Scott Galloway]

I got texted. Vanessa Friedman, who I think is a wonderful writer at Denver's Fashion, texted me. He's like, do you have any thoughts on the Met gal and Jeff Bezos? I'm like, tech has way too much money. Way too little cool. Fashion has way too little money. Way too much cool. This is an exchange of value.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, A good quote.

[Scott Galloway]

Good quote. This is the most expensive midlife crisis in history. Wouldn't it be easier for these guys just to buy a Ferrari and start banging their assistants? Or penis enhancement versus sponsoring the Met Gala. But anyways, back.

[Kara Swisher]

Yes, it will sell. We know this.

[Scott Galloway]

So NY Mag will go for an irrational price and then the trophy assets. And I'm not talking my own book here because Prof. G is independent. We just sell our ads through Vox. But Pivot is co owned by you, me and Vox.

[Kara Swisher]

Well, no, they don't own it. We own it. And they're our partner for the next four years. I wish you would do that correctly. People think they own it, but they don't. We do.

[Scott Galloway]

Okay, we own. We own it and we can't do anything with it for the next three years. But anyways, the. Okay, those are the assets podcasting at Vox and I'll just talk about us is growing 25 plus percent a year, maybe 30% a year. And when they get scaled, they're amazing businesses because quite frankly there's not a lot of costs involved in these things. And you're seeing. And quite frankly, I also think we're benefiting from Trump to the extent that I think people are really hungry for thoughtful. I don't wanna call it progressive, but a thoughtful pushback.

[Kara Swisher]

But we also do good. You did Warner, I did Tillis, we do all kinds of manner of things.

[Scott Galloway]

Anyways, the crown jewel is the Vox Media podcast network. But the thing that makes the most sense here, which is what Jim is doing, is that when you have a conglomerate that doesn't have really obvious synergies, which quite frankly, I would argue this one doesn't, the market looks at the shittiest asset in the portfolio, which is these digital properties, and it assigns that valuation to the entire thing. So the disposition of assets is accretive to shareholders. And Jim has figured that out and he's going to split up the company and he's going to have a very focused podcast company that tries to industrialize

[Kara Swisher]

podcasting, which is video, I would say, because podcasts are video.

[Scott Galloway]

Now that's a great point because effectively what you have is podcasts or the new TV shows with a lower means of cost of production. But I would argue if he sells, he'll get an amazing price. And I don't. I again, I see above, I have no insider information here. He'll get an amazing irrational price for New York Mag. He could sell the digital stuff for a dollar and just be a podcast company growing 25% a year and it would be worth more. So this, it makes all sorts of strategic sense. Comcast is probably Comcast, I think invested.

[Kara Swisher]

Comcast did invest, yes.

[Scott Galloway]

And so did Comcast was the initial investor.

[Kara Swisher]

Yes. But the investment went over to versus

[Scott Galloway]

Just so you know, okay, the Roberts family is ready to get some money back. They've been in this thing for 10 years, 11 years. They've probably said, okay, we want some money back. You need a strategy here. I think it's going to be very interesting to see.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, we'll see. One of the things that I think reporters have gotten wrong about it and I'm not going to say much more because I do know a lot is you can't. One of them is like, you can pick off these podcasters. What's it worth? Because you actually can't once you have a good. And Scott and I went out in the market and looked at lots of people and a lot of them were great, but a lot of them don't have stuff. Right. And so this would be attractive to people who. It's really hard to sell advertising well. It's really hard to do distribution well. It's very hard to do production well. And Vox does that well. And there's a couple of companies like that that do it well, too. There's Crooked, I think does a nice job. So it's valuable and it's not as easy to replicate as you think. And getting picked off is you sign for your deals. Everybody and some of people have guarantees. We don't happen to have that, but because we wanted more. More revenue to us. But it's harder to do than you think. And even if you're not satisfied with the advertising sales or whether you got big or not, Vox is one of the better ones, which is why we stayed. Right. And we could certainly sell our own advertising. It's just a slog and it's hard. It's really hard to do it well. And so it is an attractive asset. And there's a lot of people this could plug into to a lot. And just use your imagination. And also not just companies, but individuals who want platforms.

[Scott Galloway]

CNBC needs to do something.

[Kara Swisher]

Exactly. I mean, you know, you're seeing CNN trying to do podcasting with Jake Tapper and Anderson.

[Scott Galloway]

CNBC is local news with. With sleeveless dresses and Andrew Ross Sorkin. I mean, by the way, why. Why does Joe Kiernan get sleeves and none of the other people do? Anyways, the.

[Kara Swisher]

We do not want to see that.

[Scott Galloway]

Mars, Brian Roberts and Comcast. They are very strong.

[Kara Swisher]

Not Comcast, you have to say Versant, whatever.

[Scott Galloway]

The Roberts family.

[Kara Swisher]

No, it's not whatever. It's not the. They own only a certain portion of.

[Scott Galloway]

It's the same shareholders.

[Kara Swisher]

It's similar. There's Others, anyway, it's the Roberts family. It would help Versant, which also needs to be innovative. So in that regard. But there's lots of others.

[Scott Galloway]

Msnbc, Ms. Now, I'm sorry, msnow. Msnow and CNBC need a growth strategy. They are in businesses and structural decline. The average age of msnow viewer, I think at 64. CNBC at 67. The average age of a podcast listener is 34. The average age of pivot listener is 42. They need an audience that is going to be around for another five or 10 years that buys shit that is in the midst of buying homes, having kids, making investments, buying mutual funds. And they're smart people, so they do. I mean, CNBC does an amazing job. They have some of the finest financial journalists in the world. Ms. Now has some of the most talented people in the world. So. But what they need is they need a structural growth engine. They need to find platforms that are growing and are attracting a younger audience

[Kara Swisher]

and to help their talent too. And they've been trying, but they've definitely been trying more than us.

[Scott Galloway]

You know who probably inspired this whole idea?

[Kara Swisher]

Me. What?

[Scott Galloway]

No, other than you is Nicole Wallace.

[Kara Swisher]

Yes.

[Scott Galloway]

Because Nicole, who's got a very popular show on MSNow, started a podcast that immediately went to the top of the rank. I would bet Nicole's podcast Comcast is probably doing 7 or 10 million a year in ad revenue, which doesn't seem like a lot, but I bet six or seven of that is go flows to the bottom line. So you gotta think the folks at Versant, Comcast, Roberts, Joey, Bag of Donuts, hbo, now, whatever you want to call it have said they've got to be looking.

[Kara Swisher]

They've got to be looking.

[Scott Galloway]

We need to be in this business.

[Kara Swisher]

When you look at the charts, you and I are near the top in Pivot. Individually, both of us are. All your market market stuff are lots of vox podcasts are near the top, and over all the network ones, we're always higher than all of them. So anyway, it's interesting. It's an interesting time. We'll see what happens. And we're. Nothing at all. Nothing at all might happen. We'll see anyway. It makes sense to us, though. We'll go on a quick break and when we come back, the White House launches an app.

[Scott Galloway]

Protein is now at Starbucks and it's never tasted so good. You can add protein cold foam to your favorite drink or try one of our new protein lattes or matcha. Try it today at Starbucks. Hi, I'm Brene Brown and I'M Adam

[Kara Swisher]

Grant, and we're here to invite you

[Scott Galloway]

to the Curiosity Shop, a podcast that's a place for listening, wondering, thinking, feeling and questioning. It's gonna be fun. We rarely agree, but we almost never disagree. And we're always learning.

[Kara Swisher]

That's true.

[Scott Galloway]

You can subscribe to the Curiosity shop

[Kara Swisher]

on YouTube or follow in your favorite

[Scott Galloway]

podcast app to automatically receive new episodes every Thursday. There's basically been one guy in Republican politics who's argued for regime change in Iran for years and for America to take a proactive military role in making it happen. Ambassador John Bolton, President Trump's former national security adviser. But now even Bolton says Donald Trump is messing it up. As far as we can tell, he did. No preparation of the opposition actually inside Iran. No coordination, no effort to see what they would do, no effort to support them, to provide resources, money, arms, if that's what they wanted. Telecommunications. Just no coordination at all. And they don't seem prepared for it. How Trump lost the Republican Party's biggest Iran war. Hawk today. Explain every weekday and on Saturdays too.

[Kara Swisher]

Scott. We're back with more news. The White House just launched an official app for iPhone and Android featuring press releases and affordability tracker and an an ICE tip line, of course. The Trump administration says the app offers a direct line to the White House letting people text the president sign up for newsletters. But those features just link to White House contacts, forms that are already there, letting the administration access users personal information. And some additional privacy concerns. People digging into the app, it took five seconds, found that it's tracking GPS location data every four and a half minutes. It's a privacy nightmare. Do not download it.

[Scott Galloway]

I would rather give my ex wife access to my text message history then sign up for. I mean, who is fucking stupid enough to do that?

[Kara Swisher]

I know it's not trustworthy. Don't sign up for us.

[Scott Galloway]

Oh, you think?

[Kara Swisher]

No, but I mean, I wouldn't mind that the White House has an app. It's just this one is.

[Scott Galloway]

No. Yeah.

[Kara Swisher]

People were like, okay, a company doing this, you call them scummy. The government doing this to its citizens.

[Scott Galloway]

The same people that are demanding voter rolls that are, that are, that are targeting people, that are hiring Palantir to surveil people. And you want to sign up for their app.

[Kara Swisher]

Don't. And it's really sad because the White House should have direct communication with people, but to help people not to take advantage of their fucking information. These people like literally. But someone who does apps is like, I would think this is scummy for a scummy person, Right? Not our federal frigging government. Very typical of the Trump administration. Do not get it. Do not get it. And also an ICE tip line. What kind of person are you that you tip on people? Ugh. That's my grand. My grandfather was, you know, know, a mob. Mob adjacent, I would say not really in the mob, but like, I hate a rat. A rat, a rat, a rat. Like, you know, it's fine to say, see something, say something. You see a bag in an airport, yes, report it. But reporting on your fellow citizens is. Especially if they're not criminals.

[Scott Galloway]

But they haven't. They haven't committed a crime.

[Kara Swisher]

They're not criminals. Fuck you for doing that, you terrible people. Anyway, one more quick break. We'll be back for wins and fails.

[Podcast Promo Voice 1]

In 1984, Apple launched maybe the most consequential computer ever. It was not a good computer, particularly. There was actually a lot wrong with it. But the Macintosh had all of the right ideas about what computers would become, and it kind of changed everything. This week on Version History, our chat show about the best and worst and most interesting products in tech history, we're telling the story of the Macintosh and why, again, despite not being very good, it managed to change everything. Anyway, that's version history on YouTube and wherever you get podcasts.

[Podcast Promo Voice 2]

This week on Net Worth and chill. It's my birthday and I'm turning 32, so I'm sharing 32 life lessons I've learned that have actually changed my perspective. These aren't the picture perfect Instagram infographic versions. These are the real hard, uncomfortable truths about money, career, relationships, and everything in between. I'll explain why choosing a rest day is non negotiable or your body will choose it for you, why you should never take advice from anyone you don't want to be, and why nobody is actually looking at you, so you should just go for it. Plus, I'm breaking down why you should always negotiate your salary, why individualism is making you broke, and yes, why you should try eating a popsicle in the shower after a bad day. Listen wherever you get your podcast or watch on YouTube.com YourRichBFF.

[Podcast Promo Voice 1]

This week, in two different courtrooms in the United States, juries handed down verdicts that suggest that social media platforms, while not responsible for the content on their platforms, may be responsible for the way their platforms actually work. And that might change the way that social media works. This week on the Vergecast, we're excited exploring all of the ways that social media could change and might not. Plus, the 50th anniversary of Apple, and why, after trying every other phone I could find, I wound up just buying another iPhone on the Vergecast. Wherever you get podcasts.

[Kara Swisher]

Okay, Scott, let's hear some wins and fails. There's so many. I think I shall start.

[Scott Galloway]

You go.

[Kara Swisher]

You know, I really. I have to say, I really like Barb Slope. I didn't think I'd say that, but I do. I'm a Manhattan girl, but I really enjoyed being there and spending time there. I like going to different places, but I mostly want to say the win is Scott Galloway for being such a good landlord to me when I was in New York.

[Scott Galloway]

That's nice. Thank you.

[Kara Swisher]

He's been generous, and I love his apartment. It's wonderful. But I really. I love being in, like, a lot. I feel really good about cities, and I feel like New York feels great. Washington does feel great. I'm going to San Francisco soon. I just. I'm very. I'm very upset on cities these days, and, like, kind of the creativity that you see everywhere in them and just kind of just. I just love a melting pot of people. I really do. So I really. Winds are cities again.

[Scott Galloway]

A melting pot at $3,000 a square foot. Yeah. Who's melting?

[Kara Swisher]

No, it's Dalton, but I'm just saying, I went all over the city.

[Scott Galloway]

Georgetown girls.

[Kara Swisher]

I went all over the city, and it just was. I just love a city. I just love a city.

[Scott Galloway]

I so could have predicted you to end up in Brooklyn.

[Kara Swisher]

I. No, listen, I would have done the West Village, but Amanda really likes that area, and she has friends there. And I get it. And I get it. I get it. I get it. Anyway.

[Scott Galloway]

God, you're gonna have Birkenstocks.

[Kara Swisher]

No, I'm not. I never wear Birkenstocks. It's never happening. No, I wear vans. Let's be clear. All right? And my fail is. Oh, God, there's so many. But I think the worst one is, I mean, I was going between Melania Trump's robot for Teaching children, which I'm like, worst idea idea ever. I'm sorry. Like, I don't mind robots folding laundry, and I'm sure we'll have them, and I don't mind them delivering things. Fine, whatever. But teaching children should be done by people with help from technology. That is fine. But this Personalized Educators for American Children and her walking out there, I couldn't tell which was the robot and which was Melania, which is a typical joke, but honestly, what an idiot. She's really. What a moronic. Thing to. To feature at the White House as a featured stage and to stage the idea and insulting teachers. My kid just got in. My little kid got into the same public school Claire is in for next year. And I went, walked by the teacher and I said, Saul got in to the class and she was like, yay, go. And I just love, I love the teachers. They really are dedicated and committed, the ones we have dealt with, especially in public schools. But all the schools that the kids have been to. And so I just hated that thing. And Trump's signing the US Currency. It was always been a Treasury secretary person. Just another grotesque like look at me, Mommy didn't hug me moment. So just gross. Just. I can't wait till we get rid of all this stuff off all the gold in the office, which has gotten out of control and the whole thing. I can't wait. We tear it all down, every bit of it. So including getting his signature off the dollar when he puts it on.

[Scott Galloway]

Anyway, Scott, I like those. So my win is. And you mentioned this, I watched Louis Thoreau's documentary the Manosphere and I it was very illuminating for me. And a few of the takeaways, first off, these icons of the manosphere, these podcasters or the folks portrayed, they're grifters and they don't even buy the things that they don't even buy into the ideology. There's always a crypto scam or a trading platform or buy their course, whatever it is. And they themselves, this is not about ideology for them. This is just purely a grift and I think a decent living.

[Kara Swisher]

They're selling ideology as a product.

[Scott Galloway]

Well. And they're also trying to sell masculinity. And what I would argue is a decent proxy for, or a decent query for masculinity is simple. And ask yourself a question, are you optimizing for attention or for service? And these guys are optimizing for attention. Full stack. Stop. And the other takeaway is I thought that Louis really did a good job of exemplifying that strength is more about he's this slight guy who's a bit awkward and he owns the room when he's in it, he does because he's quiet, he asks hard questions. He's not mean. And the other thing, the takeaway, I think for younger men watching that is, is it's okay to occasionally absorb a blow. And I didn't learn this until I was older. I thought if someone was rude to me or coming off in traffic, I had to restore equilibrium to the universe. And get back in their face. And at one point in the documentary, his subjects are making fun of him, mocking him, and he just takes it. It's like, I got a job to do. I'm in service here. The other thing that kind of rattled me was, and I think this is true of the manosphere, and it's a lesson for the left. Left. I don't think. I think a lot of the young men who are quote unquote, in the manosphere or are drawn to these men or these, I don't know what you would call them, grifters. It's not that they necessarily buy into this bullshit ideology of dominating women or I mean, actually some of the stuff, it actually starts off fine, Be fit, take control, be aggressive, initiate your life. Manifest success. And then it comes off the fucking rails. And it's usually about dominating women and being a total misogynist. But what you found, I thought what was most interesting is when they interviewed some of the acolytes, the people who are really drawn to these people. It's really upsetting because what these kids, what these boys, and they aren't boys, what they're looking for, they're not. It's not that they're drawn to this ideology or this political viewpoint. It's not even. They're drawn, I don't think, to the misogyny. They're drawn and they're so desperate for community. They want a reason to hang out with and have a common bond among other young men.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, they want to get better. They want to feel better about themselves. They want to improve.

[Scott Galloway]

And this is where the left has failed.

[Kara Swisher]

I agree.

[Scott Galloway]

What orthodoxy or ideology on the left creates a community for young men? What is it?

[Kara Swisher]

You said that early on when common didn't have stuff thing about men.

[Scott Galloway]

Well, if they tell young men they're the problem, that's not a community to rally around.

[Kara Swisher]

Roen pointed that out. And I think what we have to do is feel like we're in it. The questions I got, you know, I have expert questions. One was for the guy who did adolescence Jack. And then I had Gretchen Whitmer ask a question which. Who's been doing a lot of man boy stuff in the state because she understands it. And so you're right. You're 100% right.

[Scott Galloway]

Anyways, my win. I thought Louis Thoreau's documentary in the manosphere, I found it so rattling. I thought these young men just so sad. One of the young men he was talking about, his brother took his own life. You could tell these Young men are just so desperate to find community in a sense of safety. They're very fair with them and other people who. It's not even the ideology they're bonding over. They're just bonding, bonding.

[Kara Swisher]

That's right.

[Scott Galloway]

Anyways, that's my win. My fail is that I believe that the Democrats continue to show a lack of creativity and leadership around a series of incentives of what they are going to do. And spell it out very specifically, what they are going to do when they get control of the House and potentially the Senate. And it should be something along the lines of the following. Everyone is saying, oh, we can't go after these individuals despite their crimes because they're just going to get a pardon. Bullshit. If you look at the law, once Democrats control of Congress and Senate, they have subpoena power. Once they get subpoena power, they should go after specific individuals for crimes and then they should coordinate, and this is the key key with the attorney generals in blue states and start going after these individuals who are no longer protected by federal pardons. So, for example, the attorney General in California might decide that if a trade on crypto went through and that family members of the Trump administration were illegally manipulating markets or engaging in any sort of insider trading, that California AG can coordinate with Democratic representatives to bring a case against them. And that case is not subject to the protections of a federal pardon. They need to sooner rather than later put these people on notice that if you are murdering people under the auspices of a secret police, if you are lying under oath, if you are engaged in crypto scams, if you have companies that overnight get contracts in the military violating the emoluments clause.

[Kara Swisher]

It's crazy.

[Scott Galloway]

And a candidate for president or a senator or Democratic representatives should outline specific cases they are going to bring against specific individuals in coordination with specific AGs in specific states that are not protected by a presidential pardon. And who's done that? Fucking nobody.

[Kara Swisher]

Some of these attorney generals are working at it. Scott. I think that's not fair. I think they are preparing them.

[Scott Galloway]

We got close with. What was her name? Fannie Hill. Fannie in Georgia, the Fulton County.

[Kara Swisher]

Yep.

[Scott Galloway]

But unfortunately, she, like Kristi Noem, was fucking her number two, which blew that case apart.

[Kara Swisher]

Yes, that did.

[Scott Galloway]

But there is real opportunity here.

[Kara Swisher]

There is. I think there's more. I'm being contacted by a lot of it. I think attorney generals are really starting to coordinate quite a bit on around these things. And one of the things that's critical for all of you people waiting for a Trump pardon, remember he's not going to give it to you till the very end because he's loyal only to himself and he's going to extract something from you. And that might be too late.

[Scott Galloway]

I'm saying take that off the table.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, no, I know, but I'm just saying it just, I think a lot of people are gonna get.

[Scott Galloway]

If the AG in Minnesota is saying you committed manslaughter and you lied under oath, and as a result, we have an ICU nurse who is buried, we can come after you Presidential pardon or not. And these are the people we're coming for, and these are the subpoenas we're issuing when we're in control of Congress and the Senate. Anyways, that's my fail is I think that Democrats need to start punching back more creatively and more aggressively.

[Kara Swisher]

I like, like it a lot. Anyway, we want to hear from you. Send us your questions about business, tech or whatever's on your mind. Go to nymag.com pivot submit a question for the show or call 85551, pivot. Elsewhere in the Karen Scott universe, from the latest episode of on with Kara Swisher. I spoke with North Carolina Republican Senator Tom Tillis. We talked about his upcoming retirement and how he can more freely criticize the Trump administration right now. Let's listen to a clip.

[Scott Galloway]

I have expressed my concern in the past. I no longer have to worry about what language I use to communicate it because I don't have to the cost benefit.

[Kara Swisher]

You can be clearer than some of your colleagues, because I have to tell you, when I talk to some of your colleagues, off the record, the Republicans, they're much more critical of Trump or of course.

[Scott Galloway]

But look, I mean, you know what all martyrs have in common?

[Kara Swisher]

What?

[Scott Galloway]

They're dead. And in politics, that's losing elections.

[Kara Swisher]

Very smart guy, very interesting guy. But some people call him too late, tell us that he's done. He always thought this and didn't say it. And other people think, well, good for him. And he is actually holding up the Fed chair thing because of the bullshit thing. And he's holding up a lot of stuff. He helped get Kristi Noem out of there. So I'm, you know, whatever.

[Scott Galloway]

My friend Neil Brennan, he said something very cogent and he said, despite the temptation to say, you idiots, we told you so or whatever, we need to be really good at welcoming anybody and praising anybody.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, I agree. I agree. I think he's been, he's gonna be very effective through January getting stuff. Cause he's a very complex politician who is very behind gay marriage and stuff. Like, it's, he's a complex conservative, and that's what we should.

[Scott Galloway]

When you say behind gay marriage, you mean against it?

[Kara Swisher]

No, he helped pass it when he was in North Carolina or something. Of protections. He's, he's much more complex as a, as a politician. And we should allow our conservative and liberal politicians to be complex and maybe not fully be on board with the purity tests on either side.

[Scott Galloway]

I agreed.

[Kara Swisher]

Anyway. Okay, that's the show. Thanks for listening to Pivot and be sure to like and subscribe to our YouTube channel. We'll be back on Friday.

[Scott Galloway]

Today's show was produced by Lara Naiman, Zoe Marcus and Taylor Griffin. Ernie Intertodd engineered this episode. Rich Shibley edited the video. Thanks also to Dubros, Ms. Siberia and Dan Shalon Nashak Kiraz Vox Music Executive Producer Podcast make sure to follow Pivot on your favorite podcast platform. Thanks for listening to Pivot for New York Magazine and Vox Media. You can subscribe to the [e-mail] pod we'll be back later this week for another breakdown of all things tech and business. Cara what is a hipster's favorite cigarette?

[Kara Swisher]

It.