Iran War Spin, Trump's Legal Losses, and TMZ Targets Politicians

Summary

Pivot Podcast Summary: Iran War Spin, Trump's Legal Losses, and TMZ Targets Politicians

Date: April 3, 2026
Hosts: Kara Swisher (New York Magazine), Guest: Anthony Scaramucci
Episode Theme:
This episode focuses on the rapidly evolving political landscape dominated by war rhetoric with Iran, Donald Trump’s mounting legal and political setbacks, the pop-culture and political implications of scandal-driven coverage (including Kristi Noem’s family drama), and the intersection of tech, finance, and memeified markets. With Scott Galloway out, Anthony “The Mooch” Scaramucci brings irreverent banter and deep DC/Wall Street crossover analysis.

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Main Theme and Purpose

Kara and Anthony unpack President Trump’s controversial approach to the escalating Iran conflict, dissect the fallout and stakes of his ongoing legal challenges, and reflect on the blurring lines between political figures, media scrutiny (especially via tabloids like TMZ), and the memeification of both tech and politics. The episode’s tone is sharp, skeptical, and frequently humorous, blending policy critique with banter.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Opening Banter and April Fools (02:05–06:00)

• Running Jokes: Anthony’s (fake) April Fools' presidential run sparked real speculation—“the reaction was sort of crazy” (03:05, Scaramucci).
• Swisher’s Times Square Billboards: Kara gleefully shares her face is nine feet tall in Times Square, reflecting on tech’s transformation even in advertising.
• Longevity: Both discuss the universal desire for a longer, healthier life, touching on genetic testing and socioeconomic barriers to health.
  • “The number one indicator of longevity is don’t be poor.” (08:16, Swisher)
• Notable Quote:
  "If we can help more people out of poverty or get them to a level of feeling not stressed, the healthcare savings are massive. We’re gonna live forever. That’s what’s happening." (07:48, Swisher)

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2. Iran War Rhetoric & Trump’s Speech (08:31–17:30)

Trump's “Stone Age” Speech:

• Trump’s Address: Trump’s televised address about the Iran war was “flat,” lacking substance, and largely ignored by the public but not the markets (08:31–09:23).
• Media Dynamics: Anthony points to Trump’s ability to command network attention (interrupting Survivor), but says it illustrates corporate media’s fear and decline:
  “He’s decapitated corporate media. He’s got them chilled… lawyers triple-checking everything.” (09:23, Scaramucci)
• The “Stone Age” Warning:
  “He said he’s going to bomb Iran into the Stone Age. That was the reason for the speech. I have a 12-year-old’s mentality... I’m using the stuff. So the 82nd Airborne is going in there. So are the Marines.” (11:28, Scaramucci)

Market & Policy Fallout:

• Markets React: Markets went “full risk off” in response, signaling fear of ground troops (09:23–11:01).
• Trump’s Real Motivations: “Trump doesn’t care about the market. Trump cares about manipulating the market… making money for himself and the people around him.” (09:36, Scaramucci)
• Scaramucci Satire (Trump Agenda):
  Scaramucci gives a rapid-fire satirical inventory of Trump’s scandals (12:35–14:39).

Flat Approval & MAGA Red Line:

• Trump’s Approval Plunges: “He has worse poll numbers than Jimmy Carter did at the peak of the oil crisis in 1978, 1979.” (09:47, Scaramucci)
• Gas Prices as MAGA Red Line: The one issue MAGA supporters won’t tolerate is $8/gallon gas. “Their red line isn’t democracy. It’s gas prices.” (14:39, Scaramucci)

Is Trump “Losing It” Cognitively? (15:39–17:30)

• Kara: “It looked like my mom on a bad day at the nursing home.” (15:39, Swisher)
• Anthony: Maintains Trump has only “slight cognitive issues,” mostly just old and tired, but fundamentally unchanged in his animus and manipulative tendencies.

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3. Trump’s Legal Setbacks & The “Maximalist” Right (17:30–22:20)

Legal Losses:

• Kara catalogues Trump’s legal defeats: the White House ballroom, NPR/PBS funding, January 6th suit, church political endorsements, and the Supreme Court’s skepticism on birthright citizenship (17:30–18:49).
  • "He’s gonna lose, he’s gonna lose badly on that one." (18:47, Swisher)

Scaramucci’s Analysis:

• Maximalism over Winning:
  Scaramucci argues Trump and the far right are using legal fights to expand what’s “negotiable” in the Constitution, even with losing cases:
  • “Every fight, whether it’s win or lose, expands the boundaries of what future presidents will try… you just put on the table that everything in this Constitution is negotiable.” (20:18, Scaramucci)
• Constitutional Intimidation: Trump’s strategy intimidates the courts and signals to his base, especially regarding birthright citizenship. (20:32–21:18)

Are We a Rogue State? (22:20–24:50)

• Scaramucci: “Are we living in a rogue state?” (22:26)
• Swisher: “We’re living in an executive that wants to take more power than ever… applying Silicon Valley management style to the government.” (22:50)

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4. Systemic Breakdown, Cycles of Chaos, and Social Media’s Role (24:50–31:54)

Destruction vs. Construction:

• Swisher: “This is a government that never governs, it bomb throws and breaks and doesn’t fix.” (23:51)
• The “White House ballroom” is a metaphor for destruction without rebuilding – “a construction pit.”

Cyclical American Renewal:

• Scaramucci lays out America’s 80-year cycles of “going into the shitter,” from the Civil War to the Great Depression to now (27:43).
  • “We renew ourselves, but what’s different now is social media and tribalism. Is that going to prevent us from coming out of the shit?” (28:56, Scaramucci)
• Swisher is cautiously optimistic: “People are suddenly taking control of themselves… and I feel positive for the first time.” (29:58, Swisher)

Social/Tech Pushback:

• Swisher: “The technologists putting theirs in with Trump was the final moment of, ‘Oh, they are the villains, like the Marvel villains.’” (29:45, Swisher)
• Scaramucci: “I’ve got my children back. They have been de-zombified by… taking the iPad away from them.” (29:58, Scaramucci)

Community and Longevity:

• Swisher: “The number one indicator of longevity is … friends and family. Community.” (31:17–31:20)
  • “If you talk to people you don’t know and you have friends and family around you, you live longer, you’re happier, you’re healthier, it’s less costly. And it’s not correlation, it’s causation.” (31:20, Swisher)
• Scaramucci calls for more “symmetrical relationships,” not “asymmetrical” ones with “billionaire dickweeds.” (31:54)

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5. Market Watch: SpaceX, OpenAI, Memeification & Bitcoin (35:45–47:50)

SpaceX IPO & Tech Stock Rollercoaster (35:45–44:27)

• SpaceX’s blockbuster IPO plans set for June, aiming for $1.75 trillion valuation.
• Scaramucci outlines why he’s invested: Starlink’s potential, sci-fi data centers, and the “cult” premium of Musk.
  • “With Starlink we have to tell people… we don’t know the revenue splits yet between Starlink, the launching business, the defense business.” (37:42, Scaramucci)
  • Touts the need for a “little bit of your portfolio in the dream,” referencing missing Amazon’s meteoric rise (39:52).
• Swisher warns: “If his [Musk’s] attention wanes, it’s in trouble. If it doesn’t, it’s hard to compete.” (45:46)
• Both agree on the “memeification” of assets: Musk’s cult sustains higher valuations than fundamentals.

OpenAI, Anthropic, and Risk vs. Reward

• Scaramucci: Invests in both, credits an early Anthropic buy to Sam Bankman-Fried; says big returns justify having a few wild bets though many VC stories are “zeros” (41:31–41:36).

Bitcoin Bear Market & Trump Factor (46:03–47:50)

• Bitcoin is “in a significant bear market... hurt by Trump.” (46:06, Scaramucci)
  • Trump’s scammy memecoin launches led to regulatory delays and drained legitimacy.
  • “I'm going to make a prediction... I think the $60,000 bottom is in for bitcoin and I think it starts to rally in the fourth quarter.” (46:48–47:31)
• Swisher: “He doesn’t help people. He doesn’t help people because he doesn’t like himself.” (47:47, Swisher)

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6. Scandal & Media: Kristi Noem, Repression, and TMZ (49:11–57:46)

Kristi Noem’s Husband’s Online Fetish Scandal (49:11–54:39)

• Daily Mail’s exposé of Noem’s husband’s bimbofication fetish and their family’s “performative” moral values.
  • Swisher: “I felt bad for him that he had this furtive life and he couldn't express himself... but [they’re] enormous hypocrites.” (50:18–52:03)
  • Scaramucci: Uses props (dodgeballs as fake breasts), jokes about repressed MAGA men, notes: “MAGA men are repressing a lot of stuff, and then they're taking it out on the rest of us.” (53:04, Scaramucci)

Political Fallout:

• Both: Noem’s presidential prospects are dead; anticipate endless investigations into financial and personal impropriety (55:51, Swisher).
  • Scaramucci calls out PAC grift: “Never put any money in a political action committee because… they’re laughing at you.” (55:47)

TMZ and Media Transparency:

• Swisher praises TMZ for publishing candid photos of lawmakers during the DHS shutdown, exposing bipartisan hypocrisy (56:17–57:48).
• Scaramucci: “Are we in a real democracy, Kara, where the politicians pick the voters? I thought the voters were supposed to pick the politicians.” (57:54)

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7. Predictions & Final Reflections (58:31–67:27)

Scaramucci’s Three Predictions

1. Pam Bondi out, Lee Zeldin in at DOJ—Trump’s “family law firm.” (58:46)
2. Ground Troops in Iran—Trump’s goal is to bomb, then deploy ground forces.
3. China Involved in Iran War Resolution—Trump will use the oil choke point to force China’s hand diplomatically. (59:10–60:15)

Loyalty, GOP Collapse, and Aftermath

• Swisher and Scaramucci predict continued Republican losses, ground troops’ casualties, and a legacy of “grifting and market manipulation” for the Trump administration’s final years (63:20–64:55).
• Anticipate mass pardons by Trump on Jan 19 and a ruinous “cleanup” for his successors.

American Renewal—Who Can Lead?

• Even after collapse, both stress hope for a future “post-partisan transformational leader” to restore vision (65:43–66:08).
• Scaramucci: “You gotta piss every single person off in power to reframe the argument.” (66:08)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Trump’s Iran speech:
  “When historians look at the wreckage of Donald Trump, they're going to say, what were you guys doing when you let somebody that inhumane into the White House?” (12:03, Scaramucci)

• On Living in a Rogue State:
  “Our government is the rogue—yes, our government is the rogue parts of it.” (22:41, Scaramucci)

• On Hypocritical Leadership:
  "MAGA men are repressing a lot of stuff, and then they're taking it out on the rest of us." (53:04, Scaramucci)

• On Memeification of Markets:
  "There’s a memeification embed in [Elon Musk]… I’m not too proud or too ideal not to take advantage of it." (44:27, Scaramucci)

• On the Cycles of American Dysfunction:
  “Every 80 years or so, we go into the shitter… America has always been reflective, redemptive, and then it renews itself.” (27:43, Scaramucci)

• On Social Media & the “Pushback”:
  "People are suddenly taking control of themselves... and I feel positive for the first time.” (29:58, Swisher)

• On Accountability:
  “In a democracy, you sometimes get the people that you deserve. And we'll have to look at ourselves and say, how did we let that happen?” (64:44, Scaramucci)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

| Timestamp | Topic | |-------------|--------------------------------------------------------------| | 02:05–06:00 | Opening banter, April Fools, billboards, longevity | | 08:31–17:30 | Trump’s Iran War speech, power/media, market reaction | | 17:30–22:20 | Trump’s legal setbacks, constitutional maximalism | | 22:20–24:50 | Are we a rogue state? Rogue government discussion | | 24:50–31:54 | Systemic breakdown, 80-year cycles, social media/addiction | | 35:45–44:27 | Tech/finance: SpaceX IPO, Musk’s cult, memeification | | 46:03–47:50 | Bitcoin bear market, Trump’s impact | | 49:11–54:39 | Kristi Noem family scandal, repression/hypocrisy | | 56:17–57:48 | TMZ exposes hypocrisy, democracy and accountability | | 58:31–67:27 | Predictions: DOJ, Iran, China; GOP collapse, American Renewal |

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Overall Tone & Conclusion

The episode blends sardonic humor (i.e., fake breasts as props, billionaire rants), concern with America’s institutional fragility, and surprising optimism about longer-term renewal and grassroots pushback against hypocrisy. Scaramucci’s unfiltered style meshes with Swisher’s incisive skepticism, offering both catharsis and insight: the chaos of 2026 is real, but so is the American capacity for reflection and reinvention.

Final Takeaway:
The nation is in the throes of destructive leadership and cyclical disruption, yet civic, social, and market forces—amplified by technology and called out by media—are pushing back and ready for a reckoning. Whether redemption or deeper chaos comes next, the story is being written in real time.

Transcript

[Kara Swisher]

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[Kara Swisher]

Think you're Scott Galloway? I don't think so.

[Anthony Scaramucci]

Why is he ever late?

[Kara Swisher]

Scott Galloway or oh, is he ever late?

[Anthony Scaramucci]

I'm sorry. She's yelling at me like she's my mother. She's my Italian mother.

[Kara Swisher]

Hi everyone, this is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Kara Swisher. Scott is off today and I'm joined by the man who may or may not be running for president. It's Anthony Scaramucci, the Mooch lawyer, podcaster, and founder of skybridge Capital. Hello, Anthony. How you doing?

[Anthony Scaramucci]

All right. I'll stipulate right here on this show, you're my running mate. We're going to go for it, Carrie, you and me. The day after April Fools, I'm your running mate.

[Kara Swisher]

Let's flip that. Strike that.

[Anthony Scaramucci]

Flip it. Okay. You want to be the president? Okay, great. I'll be your running mate. Okay. I'll grow a beard like J.D. vance. Okay.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah. Oh, please don't do that.

[Anthony Scaramucci]

Emphasis on the word beard. Okay, what are we talking about today?

[Kara Swisher]

Anthony? There is so much going on, I just don't even know. Explain, people. You, you put up a fake April Fools thing about running for president, correct?

[Anthony Scaramucci]

No, I thought it was going to be. I, it was fun. I mean, the reaction was sort of crazy, actually, but I thought, I know.

[Kara Swisher]

I thought it was real for a second. Like, why not, given the craziness of this world.

[Anthony Scaramucci]

Well, I mean, the truth of the matter is, we could be doing better than we are doing right now. That's my honest opinion. But I, I, I, I've never felt that political calling. But my, my, my staff made up that Mooch 2028 hat.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Anthony Scaramucci]

And they said, let's put this out for April Fools. I said, okay, you know, I know. I know how to play the jokes, you know?

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, yeah, it was good.

[Anthony Scaramucci]

Last year, I wrote that Elon Musk had given me a job at Doge A. That was true. You know, I don't know.

[Kara Swisher]

People, I mean, they, I don't engage in April Fools. It's odd. I don't, I get tricked by them a lot. But I, I, I like it. I appreciate. I, I believed it for a second. Honestly. I was like, what? And I sent it to the staff. I was like, is he running? I mean, again, you never know.

[Anthony Scaramucci]

Anyway, let me stipulate. I'm not running. I'm running for reelection in my marriage. And Karen knows my wife.

[Kara Swisher]

How's the polling going?

[Anthony Scaramucci]

Is going, but I could be term limited. That's the one problem with my marriage I'm worried about.

[Kara Swisher]

That your wife is running for reelection?

[Anthony Scaramucci]

In my marriage. My wife has a political platform of castration. I will not be running for president.

[Kara Swisher]

But anyway, it was a good April 1st. We're getting into marriages in a second. But I don't know if you're aware, I've taken over Times Square. Have you seen my giant billboards? Times Square.

[Anthony Scaramucci]

Well, I'm going to be coming to your thing, and congratulations on all that.

[Kara Swisher]

They gave me two billboards. Have you ever been on a billboard? It's freaky.

[Anthony Scaramucci]

Not that I'm aware of, actually. I don't think I've ever been on a billboard.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, well, it's very exciting. They're all digital now in Times Square, as you know. In the old days, they used to be actual billboards. And when I was a kid, they had the Marlboro Man. Remember, he smoked in Times Square. Yeah.

[Anthony Scaramucci]

The little puffs of smoke came out of his. Yeah, see, you and I are roughly the same vintage. I'll share something with you that's obscure, but it'll just tell you how we were raised compared to how the people are being raised now. I went In March of 1972, at the age of eight, to the godfather premiere with my uncle Orlando Scaramucci. Okay. And I sat in the balcony. I didn't understand anything about the movie, of course, but I thought it was a cool thing. And when we were waiting outside the theater, I saw the Marlboro man puffing the smoke.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah.

[Anthony Scaramucci]

Now, we would never do that to our kids now, because we helicopter them and we shelter them. But I was watching.

[Kara Swisher]

That's a good helicopter. That feels like a really acceptable helicopter. But everything's digital now. It was quite something. All these people sent me pictures of me with them, you know, and it's like nine feet tall. It's a weird. It's definitely a weird feeling.

[Anthony Scaramucci]

Well, first of all, congratulations. The show looks awesome. I love the. I love the ads on the show. And it's a very topical, lively thing and a lot of.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah. Longevity.

[Anthony Scaramucci]

You know what's cool about that show? Everybody wants that. It doesn't matter what your political stripe is or who you are as a person. If you're enjoying this life on planet Earth, you want to add a few years to it.

[Kara Swisher]

Yes, yes, exactly. I want everyone to come together. That was my whole goal in this. It's true, though. Everyone is asking me. But I do want it to be for everyone and not just rich people. And that was. The goal is like, what's working? What's ridiculous? What did you tell me the other day? There's a bunch of stuff that you were doing that I thought was too much. What was it?

[Anthony Scaramucci]

I think I've learned a little bit about. I have that methyl. Methylation gene defect where I can't methylate certain vitamins. So that was actually very helpful. So I took that genetic test, and then they give me different types of vitamins that I'm able to absorb better. That actually lowered my blood pressure, Carol. So that I think does.

[Kara Swisher]

Which ones do you take? Can I ask you, Would you mind telling me what you take? Methylgard.

[Anthony Scaramucci]

I assume that's exactly what I take. Yeah. So 70% of the population, according to my doctor, has this genetic issue where they can't methylate certain vitamins.

[Kara Swisher]

Valid science.

[Anthony Scaramucci]

Okay? So that's all valid science. And so what that did was it brought down something called homocysteine in my blood, which is an inflammation marker. It makes your kidney. Kidney's a little bit tense. And so it was creating a little bit of high blood pressure and it was creating, you know, a little bit of inflammation in my joints. So by taking that down, my blood pressure dropped and it wasn't anything more. And by the way, it's a natural amino acid that they give you. And that methyl gore, that, that reduces it, you know, Look, I'm. I'm 62.

[Kara Swisher]

You look good.

[Anthony Scaramucci]

And I'm, I've, I'm got the good Italian skin, thank God, but I'm keeping it together. But I think that stuff has helped me. And it's not, it's not the, you know, I've gone into some life transformation cell and come out of it or not. I'm not, I'm not Scott, I'm not that. But I have taken the genetics.

[Kara Swisher]

Scott takes, tries anything that goes by, any crazy shit that goes by, he's always like, I'm trying this, and they get. He gets. He abandons it and stuff like that. Anyway, it's an interesting issue and I want more people to be more healthy because actually the number one indicator of longevity is don't be poor, because you don't get the right food, you don't get the right healthcare, you don't get the right living. It's stressful living conditions and stuff like that and that. If we can help more people out of poverty or get them to a level of feeling not stressed, the healthcare savings are massive. We're gonna live forever. That's what's happening.

[Anthony Scaramucci]

There are certain people on planet earth that don't want you and I to live forever, Kara Swisher. But I want you to live forever, Carol.

[Kara Swisher]

Thank you. It's mostly a joke, but. So speaking of someone like that, Donald Trump says the war Iran is nearing completion, but the US will hit Iran extremely hard over the next two to three weeks, bombing the country back to the Stone Ages, which is just a lovely term. A 19 minute address to the nation on Wednesday night. Trump tried to justify the war, but didn't offer anything new. It was rambling, it was problematic, and he lied a lot. He also downplayed concerns about economic fallout, calling the spike in the gas price a short term increase and saying the Strait of Hormuz would open up naturally after the war. He said the same thing about COVID It would end naturally, which really didn't. He didn't say anything about putting troops there or following through on threats to leave NATO. He talks about it, but then doesn't do it. Talk about this speech, because I thought it really was a big flat zero. It really was flat and nobody was paying attention to it in a weird way, although the markets certainly were.

[Anthony Scaramucci]

Well, I mean, the speech is about power. Okay, so CBS News still in Trump's mind, the Tiffany network said, hey, no problem. Our reality show that's been on the air for 25 years, Survivor. We're going to interrupt the program programming to bring you this speech. So it's not just going to be a cable news speech, it'll be a network speech. Trump was like, hey, definitely doing that. And so that shows you a little bit of the corruption of the media. I think he has decapitated. The reason why your show is doing so well is that he's decapitated corporate media. He's got them chilled, he's got their lawyers triple checking everything they say. And so Trump's looking at it, saying, hey, I'm going to get attention and people on me, I'm going with the speech, even if it's a speech about nothing. But to your point, the market said, oh, whoa, we're likely going to have ground troops in there. We're likely going to have a really tough time. And a result of which it was full risk off after the speech. So, and you know, and people say to me, they always say, oh, Trump cares about the market. Trump cares about the market. Trump doesn't care about the market. Trump cares about manipulating the market. Trump cares about making money from the market for himself and the people around him. He doesn't care about your portfolio or your market. He doesn't even care about the polls anymore because he's not running for reelection. So guys, get off of those notions of first term Trump caring about the market and the poll numbers. He has worse poll numbers than Jimmy Carter did at the peak of the oil crisis in 1978, 1979. The poll numbers are terrible. He doesn't care.

[Kara Swisher]

Doesn't care. So what was the reason for the speech. What is he doing? Why is he making such efforts if

[Anthony Scaramucci]

he doesn' Care the reason for the speech? And as it was a weak speech,

[Kara Swisher]

I think we'd agree.

[Anthony Scaramucci]

Yeah, but there was something he said in the speech that people should be listening to. And as an American citizen, that's still exercising my First Amendment right. I denounce it as an American citizen. He said he's going to bomb Iran into the Stone Age.

[Kara Swisher]

Right.

[Anthony Scaramucci]

Okay. That was the reason for the speech. And let me explain why that was important. That was important because I'm putting the ground troops in. I have a 12 year old's mentality. And when I'm moving stuff into the region, guess what guys, I'm not using that as a leverage point. I'm using the stuff. So the 82nd Airborne is going in there. So are the Marines.

[Kara Swisher]

50,000 troops. Right.

[Anthony Scaramucci]

And but by the way, you know, General Kane told me that they booby trapped Khark island and they've got all these little Vietnam like guerrilla things they're going to do to our troops. And our troops are really set up for Cold War, army to army battle. So I've got to spend the next three weeks blast casting the living daylights out of Iran before I can get the troops in position. So I'm going to give you the speech and it's going to be I'm going to bomb them back to the Stone Age speech. So this is going to be the speech. When historians look at the wreckage of Donald Trump, they're going to say, what were you guys doing when you let somebody that inhumane into the White House? And so in preparation for this, I prepared something for you. Can I just go over this very quickly?

[Kara Swisher]

Go right ahead.

[Anthony Scaramucci]

So. So it is not enough for maga the following. We're going to release the Epstein files. Oh, wait a minute. Trump's in the Epstein files. We're not going to release the Epstein files. We're going to bomb people to distract from them. We're going to bomb a school in Iran with young kids in it, mostly women. We're going to create Alligator Alcatraz, which is this disgusting penitentiary for immigrants in Florida that has sewage backup and we're going to laugh about it while we're down there. We're going to murder people in Minneapolis. We're going to kidnap children and not even know where we're sending them. We're going to manipulate the markets, Kara. We're going to take bribes, particularly a big $400 million jet. And I'm going to keep the jet. After I leave, I'm going to excoriate our allies that have been our friends for over a century. And I'm going to threaten to attack a NATO country, Greenland, I'm going to shit all over Canada. And then I'm going to come after your 1st, 4th, 5th and 14th amendment rights in the Constitution. And, oh, by the way, every price in America is going to go up as a result of my tariffs. And I'm going to lower corporate taxes. Big beautiful spending bill. And so if you're making a million dollars or more, you're going to get a $7,000 benefit. And if you're making $50,000 or less, I'm taking $500 of benefits away from you. And this is what I'm going to do. And you're going to shut up and you're going to like it. Maga, you're still going to support me 34%. But let me tell you what's going to kill them. It's the gas prices. So it turns out that the red line for MAGA Kara Swisher are the gas prices, because they don't want to go into the 250th birthday of America grilling hot dogs at $8 a gallon in gas. And so his approval ratings are going into the gutter. But everything I just read, including the gutting of the Department of Justice, and we could name 50 other things Hollowing out USAID was acceptable to these people.

[Kara Swisher]

Scientists attacking lawyers attacking media.

[Anthony Scaramucci]

No NIH grants anymore. We're not gonna do any cancer research in the country.

[Kara Swisher]

But you said he doesn't care. You just said, like, doesn't care, doesn't care. So why do it? Self promotion, self aggrandizement, self interest.

[Anthony Scaramucci]

He, he, he's doing it because he likes putting people in pain. He's doing it because he's a miserable sop. And he's doing it because anybody in his path gets destroyed. You know, some people say nihilist, other people say nihilist, but that is him. He's attacking Macron this morning. Macron is in his field division today. Then he'll attack another person. Last yesterday afternoon, he said, you know, J.D. vance is out there negotiating this thing. If it works, I'll take all the credit. If it doesn't, I'll give him all the blame. That is Donald Trump.

[Kara Swisher]

Can I ask you, is it cognitive issues? I mean, you spent. It seems like that that speech last night was like, looked, I hate to say it, looked like my mom on a bad day at the at the nursing home.

[Anthony Scaramucci]

Okay, so I'm the contrarian on this. Cause I've known the son of a bitch for 20 years. It's slight cognitive issues, but he's not in full on dementia. He's an 80 year old guy that's a little bit forgetful. He's stooping a little bit, he's lost some posture, maybe his spine is a little bit weakened through old age.

[Kara Swisher]

Speaking of inflammation.

[Anthony Scaramucci]

Yeah, inflammation, his ankles are swollen, but he has not lost it. And whether people like it or not, he has a lot of energy for an 80 year old. He's moving himself around. Okay. And so, but what it is, what it is is hatred of self and projection of that hatred onto others. And you gotta see it for what it actually is. Okay. The other thing is, let's say that I'm not saying anybody's an agent of poop Putin, but let's say I was an agent of Putin. Okay, let's just say hypothetically I happen to be an agent of Putin and I happen to, oh, I happen to be the President of the United States. So let me do the following. Let me go after the NATO allies, let me threaten to pull out of NATO. Let me to pull aid and materiel from Ukraine, excoriate the Ukrainian president. Let me, oh, here's a good idea, let me attack Iran. And as a result of attacking Iran, I'm gonna lift the sanctions on Russian oil and I'm gonna lift the sanctions on their ally Iran's oil. So now the Russians are gonna make billions and billions of dollars off of this, which will help my buddy Vlad. And I don't know, you tell me. I don't know. How does that sound?

[Kara Swisher]

I don't know what he's doing. I felt like it was slightly cognitive. But he is having a rough week in courts cause courts are pushing back on him. Everywhere you look, it was like 10 of go through some of his losses. A federal judge temporarily halted construction on his beloved White House ballroom, saying it needs Congress's authorization and Congress doesn't seem to be moving on it. Trump's executive order cutting funding to NPR and PBS was struck down. A judge ruling it violated the First Amendment. Another judge ruled that civil suit against Trump for his actions on January 6th can go forward and that the presidential immunity does not apply to his speech that day. Talking to supporters before they march to the Capitol. And one more. A judge in Texas blocked a Trump backed deal allowing churches to endorse political candidates. Trump also was at the Supreme Court on Wednesday, very briefly listening to arguments about whether his executive order will limit to limit birthright citizenship is constitutional. The justices seemed skeptical, and that's being kind. His latest order restricting mail in voting ahead of the 2026 election is already facing legal challenges and he's gonna lose, he's gonna lose badly on that one. So pick a case, any case, and do you. I mean, this is what he does. He transgresses with illegal actions and then everyone's picking up the pieces and pushing back legally and he does damage in, um, what is. He's gonna lose on every one of these things. It seems like any. Does it matter or what?

[Anthony Scaramucci]

Well, I see, I don't, I don't, I.

[Kara Swisher]

The only one he cares about is the ballroom, from what I can tell.

[Anthony Scaramucci]

Well, see, I actually think there's a bigger thing going on here because remember, Trump to a group of right wing intellectuals is an empty vessel. Okay? So they, they bought call options on him on January 7, 2021. Low point for Trump right after the insurrection. Everyone said he was politically dead. And so these right wing lunatics that couldn't get the time of day of a Mitt Romney or George W. Bush, they said, let's team up with Donald Trump. He's probably gonna come back. He still has lots of MAGA popularity and if he comes back, we can take all of this intellectual nonsense that we believe and we can run the card table with Trump. So let's talk about one of the cases which is the argument against birthright citizenship. So remember, everybody's looking at the case like, oh, he's trying to repeal the 14th amendment, da blah blah, blah, he's going to lose the case. Oh, ha ha ha. I don't see it that way. This is a maximalist position, okay? This is a group of people, to Trump's right, these intellectual imbeciles that want To Expand Article 2 Executive Power and they are pushing for a maximalist position, okay? So every fight, whether it's win or lose, expands the boundaries of what future presidents will try. Kara. And I think this is the point that people need to make.

[Kara Swisher]

Even if he loses, like, even if

[Anthony Scaramucci]

he loses, you just put on the table that everything in this Constitution is negotiable. You see what I just did? I went to the court to intimidate them for my base.

[Kara Swisher]

Didn't work.

[Anthony Scaramucci]

My base hates black and brown people and they hate anchor babies. And I'm sending my base a message that I'm fighting for them. Okay, but imbecile, let me just point out something. If you let's say they ruled with you. You would create a situation that is ridiculous. Okay, and what is that situation? You would have children born in the country that are actually have no citizens rights anywhere. Because a lot of the parents state.

[Kara Swisher]

The justices pointed that out.

[Anthony Scaramucci]

The justices, okay, so you would have. That they wouldn't be able to work legally in the country. They wouldn't be entitled to schooling. This is, this is a constitutional intimidation.

[Kara Swisher]

Why do the maximalist thing when the minimalist thing is how they get things? That's how they got to abortion. They slowly, slowly, slowly, slowly aid at it. This is gonna never be brought up again for 20 years, Kara.

[Anthony Scaramucci]

I got three years to push and shove, you guys, okay? Now if I can only get control of the elections, what I can then do is install another right winger to further weaken everything in the Constitution. You know, Peter Thiel, these guys. I don't like the Constitution. The Constitution's very, very messy. I don't like these people that I don't agree with. I want the things to go my way or the highway. And so I need the orange wrecking ball. I've got three years left. I gotta smash into that Constitution as hard as possible. And by the way, good news for me, I've already weakened the Constitution in the eyes of 30, 40, 50% of the people. And so I gotta keep going on this.

[Kara Swisher]

So they're gonna just keep trying to smash it, smash until they can't. Until they can't. Even if they don't win.

[Anthony Scaramucci]

But I have a question for you, if you don't mind. Are we living, you and me, are we living in a rogue state?

[Kara Swisher]

Meaning?

[Anthony Scaramucci]

Okay, well, let's go over what a rogue state is.

[Kara Swisher]

No, I know, but who's the rogue? Him or us?

[Anthony Scaramucci]

Well, I have to say that our government is the rogue. Yes, Our government is the rogue parts of it.

[Kara Swisher]

Parts of it.

[Anthony Scaramucci]

So are we living in a rogue state?

[Kara Swisher]

We're living in an executive that wants to take more power than ever, which is something that happens in Silicon Valley. It happens in which they're trying to apply their Silicon Valley. You spoke of Thiel and the others, Silicon Valley management style to the government which has been growing for decades and decades and decades. That's not a new fresh thing. And some used to accuse Franklin Dental Roosevelt of a similar thing. I was not alive then. But if you read history. So I think there's always been this push for unitary executive power. It just tends to get pushed back every single time because of the Constitution.

[Anthony Scaramucci]

Let me ask a different question then. If A smaller nation was indiscriminately striking another nation in direct violation of law and was applying this type of violent behavior. Would the Americans, the old school American governments, be designating that country a rogue state?

[Kara Swisher]

Yes. Yes, I would think so. But I think it's a rogue group of people within the state. Because what I've been struck by is how enduring some of it is. Right. You're seeing pushback everywhere. And I know it's. I think one of the things that I think about a lot is it's very easy when you run for office. You can be, and I don't like to use this phrase as much, but a bomb thrower, right? You can make trouble everywhere. And when you are governing, you change as a governor. Right. To govern things. And you aren't a bomb thrower. So. So this is a government that just never governs it. Bomb throws and breaks and doesn't fix. I mean, the White House ballroom is a perfect. It's a construction pit. They just destroy. And I don't even know if that ballroom's ever going to get made. It's a kind of a physical manifestation of the mentality of just destroy. And once we've destroyed, we've won the fight already because now we have to the rest of us pick it up. But I am struck by the power of the pushback, actually.

[Anthony Scaramucci]

Well, there's symbolism in destroying that, by the way. I'm here as a wrecker of everything. And this is the thing that the Americans have to answer for. The American people have to answer for the following. You got a system that got put in place, tremendous checks and balances, tremendous processes. You had statesmen and women abide to the system, even Richard Nixon. And the system made you the most prosperous country, arguably one of the most, if not the most powerful country in the world. And you've now decided that you want to wreck that system. And I understand it because you and I grew up with these people. So I understand it. You want to wreck the system because you think the system is unfair to you. There's a few fat cats getting super rich and you're in a full on affordability crisis for yourself. And you've gone from economically aspirational to desperational. So Trump is your avatar for anger. System's not working for you. Blow up the system.

[Kara Swisher]

Yes, yes.

[Anthony Scaramucci]

Yeah, okay, so, but, but that's gonna be very bad for people. The people that want to blow up the system. It's gonna really hurt them.

[Kara Swisher]

Yes, it will be. I mean, I know that sounds crazy, but When I was in college, two guys ran for the student body presidency, right? And they had a whole. They basically had a nihilistic thing like, we just wanna party. We wanna spend all the money on ourselves. And they won, right? They won. They. People were kind of sick of the, you know, the student body president types who wanted to do good government. And there is a moment where I think voters do like chaos, right? But at some point, they don't. They absolutely do not. And I think it does. I think we'll be picking up from this guy for centuries. Like, it's not a century for decades. And I think it's not a good thing, but it isn't necessarily a bad thing to have to be battered, right, for a second, just to see what holds and what needs to be fixed. And it does allow us to reflect on who we are and what we want to be. I mean, it's kind of interesting that we're in this 250 years and it says, okay, what doesn't work? What does work? What do we need to think about? And it does knock everyone into a sense of what matters to them. And I don't think. I think it's a painful way to learn something, but I think it's a way to learn things. I do.

[Anthony Scaramucci]

All right, so this is a big question, okay? And I follow you and I love your podcast and I read your writings. So I'm going to stipulate something and I'm going to ask a very big question. All right, So I believe that this is a very young country, and we don't have the cultural mores of Italy, France, Germany.

[Kara Swisher]

Not a bad country.

[Anthony Scaramucci]

Okay? Not saying it's a bad thing, but I'm just trying to explain to you what happens in our country is we go into the shitter every 80 or so years.

[Kara Swisher]

Yep, we do.

[Anthony Scaramucci]

Okay, so 1776, into the shitter Civil War. We've lost all the institutional memory because 80 years is enough where the generation dies off. And then we go 80 years out from the Civil War. We're in the Great Depression. We go into the shitter again. We have to pull ourselves out of it. And then we build the post World War II Society along with our allies. And we have this moment of great peace, generally, great peace and prosperity. But we're 80 years out again, Kara. And so now we're going into the shitter again, which.

[Kara Swisher]

Well, we've been in the shitter, but go ahead.

[Anthony Scaramucci]

All right, well, we're in the shitter, but America has been always in these moments to Your point that you just made reflective, redemptive, and then it renews itself. However, there's something going on right now. And this is the Kara Swisher cross question. All right, Something going on right now. The proliferation of social media, right? And the addiction of the social media, which has created this tribalism and created these stovepipes silos. Is this gonna prevent us from coming out of the shit, or are we gonna be able to have a post partisan moment?

[Kara Swisher]

I think they're finished. These cases that are starting to build up, I think people are. It takes, you know, as, you know, cigarettes, 20 years.

[Anthony Scaramucci]

So this is Philip Morris.

[Kara Swisher]

This is Philip Morris again. And everybody is like, just a fucking second. And I think, I know it sounds crazy, but I have so many people now coming up to me after I wrote Burn Book, which at the time, people are like, oh, you're so mean to them. They're such important innovators. People come to me now and they're like, you weren't mean enough. You weren't mean enough. Like, you weren't tough enough on them. And I think people are suddenly taking control of themselves, whether it's social media. I think young people are my sons. I see. And that's an anecdotal thing, but I see people pushing back across the glob. And I think the fact that the technologists put theirs in with Trump was the final moment of, oh, they are the villains, like the Marvel villains. And I think. I really do think there's a very healthy pushback happening. And I don't think I feel positive for the first time that people understand what.

[Anthony Scaramucci]

It's very optimistic. Look, I hope so. It's very optimistic. I'm gonna say something that does not reflect well on me or Deirdre. I let the kids have the iPad, and it was ruining their personalities, and I let them have it for too long. I've taken the iPad away from them and the phones and all that other stuff. I've got my children back. They have been de zombified by that process. Okay, so a shout out to Jonathan Haidt. Is that how you say his name?

[Kara Swisher]

Jonathan Haidt?

[Anthony Scaramucci]

And a shout out to Kara Swisher. A shout out to Kara Swisher for putting out the Surgeon General's warning label before the surgeon general did that these stupid products give your kids brains, lung cancer. I know it's a mixed metaphor, but you get my point.

[Kara Swisher]

I'll tell you, one of the themes in this series I did the cares for Enslaved Driver is about the danger of chatbots with kids. You know, I've been talking to the parents and doing interviews with them. I think the most dangerous thing right now is relationships with AI bots and the sycophantic relationships. And I'll tell you, I'll do a plot spoiler this entire series, guess what the number one indicator of longevity is? You'll know.

[Anthony Scaramucci]

Money. Right, or no money?

[Kara Swisher]

Money. Of course. Yes. Don't be poor. But what's the actual number one?

[Anthony Scaramucci]

Genetics.

[Kara Swisher]

Nope. Not sleep, not diet, not exercise.

[Anthony Scaramucci]

Stress.

[Kara Swisher]

Friends and family.

[Anthony Scaramucci]

Friends and family. Ah, that makes sense. That makes sense.

[Kara Swisher]

Community. Not just people, you know, but walking to a coffee shop and saying, hey, how's your day going? I do that now all the time. People, you know, they look down and you go, hey, how's your day going? They go like this. Like, you can see them go, oh, I'm okay. And I go, are you sure? Is everything good? It's amazing. If you talk to people you don't know and you have friends and family around you, you live longer, you're happier, you're healthier, it's less costly. And it's not correlation, it's causation. And the more time you spend with bots and online, the sicker you're gonna be.

[Anthony Scaramucci]

Kara, I'm loving you more every day. Can I put out a public social message to billionaire dick weeds? Can I just have a public social message? Hey, hey, hey. Billionaire dickweeds, are you out there? Listen to me, okay? No more asymmetrical relationships, okay? If you don't call me, guess what? I'm not fucking calling you. You're not that important, okay? You have to take a crap every day. You have to go to the bathroom. You're really not that important. So you know what? I want to live a long time, so I'm going to have symmetrical relationships and bilateral relationships with people. If you think you're too fucking important to call me back. Yeah, you're never getting another call from me.

[Kara Swisher]

Okay?

[Anthony Scaramucci]

All right, let's go to the next.

[Kara Swisher]

Speaking of this, we're going to Kristi

[Anthony Scaramucci]

Noem because I brought props.

[Kara Swisher]

Not yet, not yet, not yet. Okay, let's go on a quick break. When we come back, SpaceX officially files for an IPO. Support for this podcast. And the following message is brought to you by E Trade from Morgan Stanley. Now that E Trade is part of Morgan Stanley, there's even more to love, love. Get the freedom to invest on your own, with $0 commissions on stocks, options, ETFs and mutual funds, plus account types for every investor. And when you're ready, speak with a pro to help guide you on your financial journey. Discover more ways to make the most of your money and get up to $1,000 when you open a brokerage account with a qualifying deposit today. Learn [e-mail] offer terms and fees apply. Investing involves risks. Morgan Stanley Smith Barney LLC Member Sipic E Trade is a business of Morgan Stanley.

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[Anthony Scaramucci]

There's basically been one guy in Republican politics who's argued for regime change in Iran for years and for America to take a proactive military role in making it happen. Ambassador John Bolton, President Trump's former national security adviser. But now even Bolton says Donald Trump is messing it up. As far as we can tell, he did no preparation of the opposition actually inside Iran. No coordination, no effort to see what they would do, no effort to support them, to provide resources, money, arms if that's what they wanted. Telecommunications. Just, just no coordination at all and they don't seem prepared for it. How Trump lost the Republican Party's biggest Iran warhawk today. Explain every weekday and on Saturdays too.

[Kara Swisher]

Anthony, we're back with more news. SpaceX has confidentially, I don't. Confidentially, everyone knows about it. Filed for an ipo. The filing puts the company in track for a June listing ahead of other upcoming massive IPOs from OpenAI and Anthropic. There's a lot of them coming this year. SpaceX reportedly seek a valuation of 1.75 trillion. It's not making that much money. Companies will probably allocate as much as 30% of the offerings to small investors. That's nice. It's really. I'm going to go through a whole bunch of market things, but that's. I think it's $15 billion in revenue and the numbers are really crazy for this. It's highly overvalued. At the same time, people will probably run into it. A couple things. Oracle stock has been fluctuating after laying off thousands of employees. Microsoft dropped almost a quarter of its value in the first three months of the year. Worst quarter. OpenAI is beginning to let individual investors access the stock. Months before its planned ipo. Lots of companies gotten hit. Palantir's gotten hit. It's really kind of an up and down thing. Talk a little bit about the SpaceX IPO and where the markets are from your perspective. And of course, if you'd like Bitcoin, tell us what's happening there since you're Mr. Bitcoin.

[Anthony Scaramucci]

All right, well, let's start with SpaceX. I mean, listen, the cult of personality around Elon Musk is such where he gets an excessive exogenous premium for his companies. They are off of the scale.

[Kara Swisher]

Even if they're suffering like Tesla, Even

[Anthony Scaramucci]

if they're suffering like Tesla, they get enormous metrical valuation numbers, okay? You're talking about a $1.65 trillion, $675 trillion valuation. He's going to raise apparently $75 billion. So that would crush the Saudi arampo IPO record, okay? And it's two to three times larger than any IPO ever, okay? And he does have a good product. With Starlink we have to tell people

[Kara Swisher]

same thing with this is good.

[Anthony Scaramucci]

But we don't know the revenue splits yet between Starlink, the launching business, the defense business. We don't know the breakout of the profitability, okay? And we also don't know the Capex burn because it would feel like the starship stuff is a blast furnace, if you will, a blast furnace of catnip, okay? Now having said that, I want to disclose this to people. I do own SpaceX. I have participated in one of the private rounds of SpaceX.

[Kara Swisher]

Why did you do that? Because you thought they were far and away the biggest provider.

[Anthony Scaramucci]

I did that because I see this Starlink being worth a fortune for him and I see this idea of. And I'm not saying it'll happen, and this is why it's venture capital in my portfolio, but I see the notion that creating interstellar or orbital data centers where you're getting the energy from the sun and not from the electricity grid, and you're beaming it back down to Earth using satellite technology, I think that's near science fiction. I think that becomes science fact. And I think he's well positioned to do it it. I also think that he's merged GROK into this and I think GROK on its own, which I, again, full disclosure, I was an investor in xai. I mean, I think you know this Antonio gracias. And I worked together at Goldman. Obviously, I would've been smarter to invest earlier, but he's been helpful in getting me access to these investments. And for me in my venture portfolio, that side of my portfolio, I think this guy has done a very good job of executing. And the valuations may be high, but what I've learned in life, and you and I are, I'm 40 years as an investor. I missed out on a few things early like Amazon, because I was reading Warren Buffett's annual reports and the valuation for Amazon was too high. But ultimately the guys that bought Amazon were right. I missed it. And it was a big miss for me. You know, a $10,000 investment in Amazon on the May 15, 1997 IP is worth almost $20 million today.

[Kara Swisher]

Right.

[Anthony Scaramucci]

And so I want to have a few things.

[Kara Swisher]

Although it could have been touch and go, there was a point where Amazon,

[Anthony Scaramucci]

we could be five years from now, if you're kind enough to invite me back on, we could be saying that was a big miss for SpaceX. That was a big miss. But again, what I would tell investors is you got to have a little bit of your portfolio in the dream because it is America and we have to believe in that dream. Now, I have most of my portfolio in stocks and bonds, and I have most of my portfolio in the garden variety, S&P 500, some Berkshire Hath, et cetera. But I do own this stuff.

[Kara Swisher]

Would you buy OpenAI comparatively now? They're in a much more competitive position now with Anthropic and others. Or would you buy Anthropic?

[Anthony Scaramucci]

So I own both. And I had this nightmare situation with Sam Bankman Fried, which I've well documented and talked about. But one of the things he did for me, he bought Anthropic he told me to buy Anthropic and I bought Anthropic very early. And let me tell you how this works in life. Anthropic is up 140 to 1 from where I bought it in terms of its current private market valuation. So Anthropic is a larger percentage of my net worth than certain legacy assets that I have, Carol. And so this is another reason why I always tell people it's okay. And by the way, you don't have time in the day for all my zeros and all my stupid decisions and stuff. I had Travis Kalanick. Is that how you say I had him in my office, $50 million valuation for Uber. I said, wait a minute, an unknown guy in an unknown black car is going to drive my 16 year old daughter around Manhattan? Get out of my office.

[Kara Swisher]

Get out of it, get at it.

[Anthony Scaramucci]

Yeah. And I, and I missed it. Right. So I can give you all my losses as well.

[Kara Swisher]

Right.

[Anthony Scaramucci]

But, but you got to me. I believe that you have to have some of these in. So open AI has its challenges. Obviously he's fighting it out with Elon and all the different things that we could describe, but I think he's got lots of market share and I think he's going to grow his market share. And by the way, I think Claude is going to win Anthropis, going to win his case against the government. Trump's going to lose that case too.

[Kara Swisher]

Right. So when you look around you're like, look, take these risks. And as long as it's like, it's not a situation where it's not a real business. Right. And in this case, Starlink is a real business. The rocket business is a real business. It's a much smaller business than the valuation by far. Especially when you, you zero out against a Facebook, like it's worth more than Facebook and Facebook has. Talk about a real, real business that's like significant and ongoing business. And the threats. Scott feels like there's a real moat that they have. I never think there's any moats ever. Especially when you look at Tesla, how quickly, when a couple years ago I was like, Tesla's gonna get killed by China and competitors. And everyone's like, no, Tesla's the winner. I'm like, there's no way they're keeping a 70% market share. It's not happening. And of course it's gone down and down. And he lost interest in it. And, and instead of putting out really innovative cars, he put out the cybertruck. Right. And so Once I saw the cybertruck, I'm like, this thing is watch out below. But his particular, as you said, he has a lot of misses, but he has a lot of wins. And so you kind of have to go with him in that regard in this particular thing.

[Anthony Scaramucci]

Can I add just one thing? Because this is something we have to accept, and that's called memeification. And so we have to accept that there's a prolific number of bee swarming retail investors, Wall street bet, like investors that are with Elon, and that there's a personality cult around Elon that is affecting valuation. And by the way, they are way sturdier than any of my short selling buddies thought. And they've knocked out a lot of my short selling buddies. So I would just tell people, listen, I'm a market realist, okay? I'm not a market purist, okay, yes, I've read Buffett, and Buffett is the papal edict giver of value. We're going to get the bitcoin, but Buffett thinks Bitcoin's rat poison or rat poison squared and all this other stuff. But the point I'm making is that I'm a market realistic, not a market idealist. And this man, Elon Musk has a memeification in bed in him. It may not last forever, but there's a memeification in bed in there. And that I am not too proud or too ideal not to take advantage of it. I get to take advantage of it.

[Kara Swisher]

You know, it's interesting, one time I called Berkshire Hath because he had never made an Internet investment. This was a decade ago or more. More than that. It was more than that. And I called up to ask him. I wanted. I was doing a. I was the Wall Street Journal, so it was a long time ago. And I call up and I said, I'd like, you know, I thought I was gonna get a PR person. And the phone rings through and it's him. And I was like, oh, hi. Hi there, Warren Buffett. And he's like, I just don't believe in this Internet thing. And I was like, I think you're wrong. I can't believe I'm giving you advice, sir. But he was very much against Internet investments. And he admitted he was wrong about it much later, like that he was wrong about all of them. And there is some value in understanding. It's gonna take a while for people to catch up to musk in this area. But as I always say, they will catch up because it's a great market, right? As you say if we have these data centers in space, if you think he's going to be the only one running the show, you're absolutely wrong. Greedy people will rush into the business, whether it's Amazon with Kuyper or whatever. It's going to be a lot of people. But it'll take his attention, which it fell away from because I think he got got red pilled in many ways. If his attention wanes, it's in trouble. If it doesn't, it's hard to compete with him and his meme vacation as you talk about. I think you're right.

[Anthony Scaramucci]

Well, again, a portfolio approach. I own a lot of them and some of them will work, some of them won't. But my lesson from 30 years ago is I wasn't bold enough. And again, I'm talking about 5%, 7%

[Kara Swisher]

of the cat, not the whole thing.

[Anthony Scaramucci]

Yeah, that's all right.

[Kara Swisher]

Very briefly, bitcoin, where's it at today?

[Anthony Scaramucci]

Bitcoin is in a significant bear market. Bitcoin got hurt by Trump. I know the Trump lovers and the Trump crypto lovers don't like me saying this, but I said when those meme coins came out, Trump and Melania meme coins, he's going to crush us. He's going to hurt us because he hurts everything that he touches. And so what ended up happening is the regulation that should have been passed didn't get passed because of the hatred of trust Trump. And so result of which we're in a typical bitcoin bear market.

[Kara Swisher]

So it's 66,000, almost 66,000.

[Anthony Scaramucci]

But it's been pretty sturdy during the Iranian war.

[Kara Swisher]

But it hasn't rushed upwards which one

[Anthony Scaramucci]

would think it would. But I would say to bitcoin enthusiasts, this is a typical four year cycle, halving cycle situation. This point in the cycle, bitcoin loses roughly half of its value. It did, did. I'll make a prediction on your show. I've been humbled by markets, probably could be wrong. I think the $60,000 bottom is in for bitcoin and I think that bitcoin starts to rally in the fourth quarter, which would be consistent with the four year cycle of bitcoin. So even though you've got more buyers in bitcoin, you were offset by whale selling in the last 12 months. And guess what? You got the typical four year cycle of bitcoin. And since I'm a long term holder, I'm.

[Kara Swisher]

What's the deal with that? I mean, you're right. Trump came in and made a mess of it by all the shitcoins, all the scams. And so it linked to bitcoin.

[Anthony Scaramucci]

And he sucked so much money, political donations into his coffers from guys that thought Trump was gonna help him. He doesn't help people.

[Kara Swisher]

He doesn't help people.

[Anthony Scaramucci]

He don't like people because they don't like himself.

[Kara Swisher]

So this is the Trump. We are in the trough of bitcoin. All right, I'm going to keep that prediction. We'll find out. All right, Anthony, we're going on a quick break. When we come back, we'll talk about those photos of Kristi Noem's husband.

[Anthony Scaramucci]

Hi, I'm Brene Brown. And I'm Adam Grant. And we're here to invite you to the Curiosity Shop, a podcast that's a place for listening, wondering, thinking, feeling and questioning. It's going to be fun. We you rarely agree, but we almost never disagree and we're always learning.

[Kara Swisher]

That's true.

[Anthony Scaramucci]

You can subscribe to the Curiosity Shop on YouTube or following your favorite podcast app to automatically receive new episodes every Thursday. In 1984, Apple launched maybe the most consequential computer ever. It was not a good computer particularly. There was actually a lot wrong with it. But the. But the Macintosh had all of the right ideas about what computers would become and it kind of changed everything. This week on Version History, our chat show about the best and worst and most interesting products in tech history were telling the story of the Macintosh and why, again, despite not being very good, it managed to change everything. Anyway, that's version history on YouTube and wherever you get podcasts.

[Kara Swisher]

Anthony, we're back. And Scott is going to be very sad he's missing this one. Kristi Noem is, quote, devastated and blindsided by the allegations that her husband is at Brian's activities in online fetish communities. Earlier this week, the Daily Mail published an investigation into Noem's husband, which included a photo of him wearing pink hot pants and fake breasts with nipples. The story also alleges he spent at least $25,000 communicating with women in the bimbofication scene I didn't know about, but fascinating. Which fetishes people with surgical enhancements. Republicans are a party of family values. This couple was particularly performative. I don't know what to say here. I just don't know.

[Anthony Scaramucci]

I'm in hot water with my mother in law because last night when I came home, I said, ma, were you in one of those chat rooms? She got pissed.

[Kara Swisher]

Oh, no, it was bad, right?

[Anthony Scaramucci]

But look at me because I know Scott Galloway Isn't here, but I brought props.

[Kara Swisher]

What is that? Is that them?

[Anthony Scaramucci]

Those are boobies. They're actually dodgeballs that my kids play with.

[Kara Swisher]

Oh, my God.

[Anthony Scaramucci]

Do you want me to send you them?

[Kara Swisher]

No, I don't. Do.

[Anthony Scaramucci]

Please do wear these later.

[Kara Swisher]

No, I do not. Do not. Don't you dare put them on.

[Anthony Scaramucci]

Okay, I'm not putting them on because I don't want to make fun of somebody. But I'm just saying I did bring them on.

[Kara Swisher]

Let me say what I think. I feel sad for this guy because I think he has. Listen, I'm from San Francisco. If you want to marry a goat, I'm pretty okay with it. Not great with it, but that's okay.

[Anthony Scaramucci]

Are you okay with it?

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah. I think he obviously has an interest, and I find fetishes somewhat interesting. And I think you should express yourself. And it's not hurting anybody, right? Is it really hurting anybody that he likes this? No, he seems. He seems. My part is he seems very sad about liking it. Right. And that, you know, some of these. Actually, some of the women he was. He hired are actually quite wise, I have to say. Some of these sex workers are like, well, he really liked it and he seemed sad. And I was trying to make him have fun. Cause he seems stressed. And they're the most reasonable people in this entire affair. So I felt bad for him that he had this furtive life and he couldn't express himself. That's one. I also think he's a huge hypocrite in that all this performative religious stuff. When he has a life that's more interesting and more unusual. And he should have that life without feeling shamed. Shame himself. In her case, I do think she did know about it. I suspect she did. I don't think it's any excuse for her behavior with Corey Lewandowski. I think part of. I put this stuff up saying I felt sad for this guy. And everyone's like, don't you know that Corey Lewandowski leaked this to get the focus off of there and there and what we should be focusing on, not this poor guy, which is sad, but for him, I wish he enjoyed himself more, as I said. But on their grift, right? Their enormous grift and what happened there and the investigations into the two of them and their behaviors in there. And by extension, Donald Trump should continue and focus in on those two.

[Anthony Scaramucci]

We've normalized corruption, which is. Hopefully, we'll have to come back from that as well, but we will.

[Back Market Announcer]

There's.

[Anthony Scaramucci]

Here's three Quick things. I would say, number one, you're coming down from heaven and you're on the assembly line, and there are some fetishes, like feet fetishes or eyelash fetishes. I know what the fetishes are. But then the supervisor stops the assembly line and brings out the inflatable boobies. Said, hey, we're sending you to Earth with these. Okay. I mean, that was a rough one. Okay? So I feel bad for the guy because I think you're born with that. Maybe. Number two, okay? MAGA men are repressing a lot of stuff, and you know that. My buddy Don Lemon tells me that the Grindr stuff lights up at all these crushed, conservative things. Okay? We spot Lindsey Graham with the magic wand down in Walt Disney World.

[Kara Swisher]

Yes. Just so people don't know, he was at Disney World with a Little Mermaid bubble wand in one photo and waiting in line for Space Mountain in another. He said he was meeting with Trump and Steve Witkoff and then went to Orlando to meet friends just for a quick. You never go quickly to Disneyland.

[Anthony Scaramucci]

Look, look, look. Go ahead. The repression is the problem, right? Like, so to me, I'm going to tell you that MAGA men are repressing a lot of stuff, and then they're taking it out on the rest of us, right? Like if you read the Velvet Rage by Alan Downs. Okay, guys, relax. Whatever it is, whatever your orientation is, let it go. Nobody cares, okay? We're in a totally different environment.

[Kara Swisher]

Your fine words are frozen. Let it go. Let it go.

[Anthony Scaramucci]

Yeah, exactly. I think these guys are.

[Kara Swisher]

Can't hold it back anymore, you know?

[Anthony Scaramucci]

You. You know this, Kara.

[Kara Swisher]

Born in the 50s. I do. I let it go a long time.

[Anthony Scaramucci]

Born in the 40s and 50s. And with all of that repression, okay? And who the hell knows what Donald Trump's father did to him as a kid? And the guy's a repressed, sad guy, okay? He's decorating the Oval Office like Liberace. He wants the ballroom. He took over the Kennedy Performing Arts Center. He wants to take his pain out on us. Calm down. Let it all go, okay? And I feel bad for this guy, but I'm telling you, this type of repression, for some reason, has found its way into our politics. And then the last point, because I had three.

[Kara Swisher]

That's a serious point.

[Anthony Scaramucci]

The last point. Look at me. Look at me.

[Kara Swisher]

I thought you were just gonna make booby jokes, but go ahead.

[Anthony Scaramucci]

Last point. Look at me. Look at me.

[Kara Swisher]

Look at me, too.

[Anthony Scaramucci]

I'm a normal fucking guy. I can't believe I thought I was a looney tune. I'm in the bell curve. Curve of normal male nuttiness.

[Kara Swisher]

I know. Let me ask you, crazy.

[Anthony Scaramucci]

I. I thought I was nuts until

[Kara Swisher]

I met these people. You're totally boring compared to most of these people.

[Anthony Scaramucci]

I'm living a boring.

[Kara Swisher]

What does it do to. She has no political prospects now, correct? Or will she go the I didn't know I'm a victim route?

[Anthony Scaramucci]

They took the couple hundred million dollars off the ad thing. So what did they do? They put the $200 million into the ad thing. I hired a consultant. The consultant skimmed, like they do with these political action committees. Let me. Let me tell people from pivot guys never put any money in a political action committee because what they do is the cronies at the top, they skim all the money and they charge a 15, 20, 30% advertising consulting fee. And they're laughing at you. They're laughing at you. Okay? So what Gnome and Corey did was took the money, okay? And it. Diverted it. And they're gonna go live somewhere. God bless them. They got some money, Okay? I don't want to make the money like that.

[Kara Swisher]

Well, they. They'll. They'll be. They will have a problem. They'll have legal problems forever. I would assume the two. She has no presidential prospects, correct? Because I know that was. Not at all.

[Anthony Scaramucci]

She's got no presidential prospects, but she's also. Come on. These are the people that we want running the country. Come on. Okay? I mean, you're shooting at. You're shooting at people. You're kidnapping kids with ice, and you're proud of it, and you're riding around on your horse. You know, I did see one great meme, though. You mind if I share it? You know, we had to fuck, marry, kill. So we had to marry the guy with the big boobies. We're fucking Corey, and we're killing the dog. I thought that was really funny. Okay. But anyway.

[Kara Swisher]

That's a good one. That's good. It's interesting, though. It's really interesting. Someone, a company that I didn't think was going to do it. I'm friends with Harvey Levin from tmz, but he's been publishing photos after asking people to submit pictures of lawmakers on vacation during the DHS shutdown. And I'll note, it's a bipartisan shaming targeting Democrats and Republicans alike. It's part of a larger push by tmz, which has amped up its political coverage, showing what it calls the intersection of politics and pop culture. I Kind of like that. They're doing this so you can let us see you what you're doing versus how you're talking.

[Anthony Scaramucci]

Right, so you're exposing the hypocrisy, you know?

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, exactly.

[Anthony Scaramucci]

And here's the thing I would tell you, you know, they had Thune last week bypassing the entire TSA at the Reagan airport. I think he was in or maybe Dulles and guy, you're hip hop. You're a hypocrite. You know, fix the country. You know, there's a 14% approval rating for the Congress. It's just slightly above Kim Il Jung. Okay, but you know what? 95% of these guys get reelected because of gerrymandering. And Citizens United, they pick the voters. That's the only thing they're able to do. Are we in a real democracy, Kara, where the politicians pick the voters? I thought the voters were supposed to pick the politicians. And they get unlimited money from the corporate and so they can stay in power. It'd be like you and I opening up a restaurant. Our food sucks, we got one star Yelp ratings, but we can't ever get fired.

[Kara Swisher]

Right?

[Anthony Scaramucci]

Okay. It's appalling.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, it is. And I think they're paying the price for it, though. I love that these pictures are there. I think people should do more of this exposure. Like, here's how they live, here's how they behave. I did like when Delta said we're not going to let them jump the line if they're on Delta, you know, we're not going to let. Let them have special things. And now I think things are calming down at airports. Apparently TSA has sort of started to organize it a little better, but it's still. The fact that they can't pass a basic funding bill is really quite something, you know, without making everything partisan. All right, one more quick break. We'll be back for predictions. Okay, Anthony, let's hear a prediction.

[Anthony Scaramucci]

All right, so listen, you know, listen, first of all, Happy Easter and Happy Passover to you and your family.

[Kara Swisher]

Thank you.

[Anthony Scaramucci]

And I'm going to. I'm going to make three predictions. So the first prediction, Pam Bondi is long gone. Okay. Zeldin will replace her.

[Kara Swisher]

This is Lee Zeldin.

[Anthony Scaramucci]

They have gutted the Department of Justice and it's become the Trump family law firm. And so that's actually good for these Supreme Court decisions because they got nobody there to argue these stupid cases, but just very bad for the country, number two. And I think this is also one that I don't like. Is that we're going to have ground troops in, in Iran. And again, to bomb the people back to the Stone Age was to degrade them in such a way where he can put the ground troops in. And then my last prediction is that the Chinese are going to be involved in a resolution of this. And so what Trump is going to do, and this is the reason why he delayed the meeting with Xi, he's going to get the people at the Carg island, he's going to get them in the Strait, and he's going to shut off the oil. He's going to pick up the phone and call Xi and say, listen, you're getting 40, 50% of your oil out of here, and this is a savage satellite state of yours. You got to secularize that state. And you got to let me and the UN or whoever go in there and take the uranium out of there. And when we're doing that, when we're done doing that, I'm going to open the oil spigot again and you can have the oil. I understand that you got to run your economy, and I want to be a cooperative economic competitor of yours, and I do need those rare earth minerals. But that third prediction is where we're going on the chessboard because there are some smart people in the Pentagon, and now that they're in this thing, now

[Kara Swisher]

that they're here, why not take advantage of it?

[Anthony Scaramucci]

That's where they're going. So those are my three predictions.

[Kara Swisher]

Maya's wall. But that could cause a lot of deaths, American deaths, which could be a

[Anthony Scaramucci]

law of unintended consequences, but they don't care. You know, he doesn't care. You're an object in Trump's field of vision. You're not a person. So he doesn't care if you're there.

[Kara Swisher]

We might as well take advantage of this situation. Let me ask you, what do you think of Lee Zeldin?

[Anthony Scaramucci]

Well, Lee, I know a long time, you know, Lee, District 1 out here on Long Island. Yeah, he was the House of Representatives guy out here. He's a conservative guy. He ran for governor here.

[Kara Swisher]

Lee is formally reasonable, as I recall, became crazy.

[Anthony Scaramucci]

That's where I was going. So Lee is in that group of people that went into the MAGA chamber and came out with the red hat and the long tie and the kukulala. But he was not that way. But now he is. And so we'll have to see, yeah, we'll have to see how many pirouettes he's willing to do for Donald Trump to Destroy his reputation, too, because that's what we do. You go in. I want the power. I want the significance. Trump moves the goalposts on you. Hey, Kara, prices are going down. No forever wars. We're ending our involvement in the Middle East.

[Kara Swisher]

Mm.

[Anthony Scaramucci]

Okay. Okay. Well, now, are you guys loyal to me? Yes. You're loyal to me. Now we're doing the opposite of that. We're moving the goalposts. You gotta stay loyal to me. And so that's. Lee Zeldin is the type of kid, he's gonna look back on this because I know how he grew up. You know, he's out here on Long island with me. He's gonna look back on this and say, wow, I really screwed this up. I shouldn't have done the things that I'm doing. But he'll be a lackey for Trump.

[Kara Swisher]

So is there a redemption? There are a lot of Republicans. I just interviewed Tom Tillis. He's sort of run out of Fox. There's a lot of people that, to me, even Marjorie Taylor Greene. Do you see a pushback anywhere? And what are the implications of that? Are you seeing. And I'm not talking about, like, the Jeb Bush Republican.

[Anthony Scaramucci]

Thune goes down as a scarecrow, you know, he goes down as one of the worst of the worst. You know, like when we have. You and I will be dead, or maybe because of the red light therapy on your new show, you and I will be alive, but it'll be 50 years from now now, and the people are going to look back and say, what the hell happened? And John Thune is the poster boy for cowardice, okay? Because he could have called Schumer and he could have said, hey, we're shutting this down, okay? We are Article 1 of the Constitution for a reason, and we're shutting this down. You and I are going to the White House today and we're going to tell this asshole that he's the most un American president that's ever lived. And we're going to go in a different direction or we're going to blow him out of the the seat. But he didn't do that because he's got no K owns and he wants personal power over the serving of the public and he wants to bypass the security line, okay? And guy, you used to be a good guy. I knew you a long time when I was on the Romney campaign. You were a good guy. But you are now a loser.

[Kara Swisher]

So what happens? Very brief. What happens to these? Because something's going to happen after November. They've lost in Palm beach, they've lost in Kansas. They've lost. They're losing.

[Anthony Scaramucci]

They'll lose the midterms on the House. They won't lose the Senate. Maybe Trump, Trump will go, maybe they'll lose the Senate, but they won't lose it enough for Trump to get impeached because they need 2/3 vote. Trump will strong arm everybody. The last two years will be about grifting and making money and market manipulation because they've telling people they want to be the richest family after they leave. And on the 19th of January, he will pardon himself and his family members and the people that are close to to him and he'll drop that in the lap of the Supreme Court and the Congress as whether or not a president can pardon themselves. And he will leave an unbuilt ballroom and a complete catastrophic shitstorm for whoever the cleanup crew is going to be. And by the way, as people have said, in a democracy you sometimes get the people that you deserve. And we'll have to look at ourselves and say, how did we let that happen? And this is the point of the book that I'm writing, which is you've been nice enough to read for me, is that we let this happen through bad decision making. But we left out the people, Cara, that you and I grew up with who once felt unbelievable about the American dream and unbelievable about the. My father was making money by the hour. He was a union guy. But he was like, you know what? My kids are gonna live the American dream. Let's get to work. Now those people are like, hey man, I can't get a job. And by the way, my kids are not going to get a job. Fuck you people. Burn it down. And we've got to go, you know, talking about burn book, how about burn the whole thing? Burn the social contract.

[Kara Swisher]

So it's burnt so now.

[Anthony Scaramucci]

So now we got to get some people in there that are post partisan transformational leaders that are going to run a restate a vision for the country. Like I said, we go through this every 83 years. We're in our 250th year anniversary. Here are the things that we need to do to redeem ourselves. We have to clean up these certain things that have happened. We have to take big business, big pharma, big zillionaires out of the political equation. We created a separate but equal democracy with Citizens United. That's the Plessy vs Ferguson case of our democracy. Brown Board of Education overturned that. We're 16 years out from Citizens United, we have to overturn. And we got to put these rich people back in a box where they belong, where one vote equals one vote.

[Kara Swisher]

All right, I'm going to ask one final question. Who are. Pick two people who would be on each side. Two people. You are like, those people could do that.

[Anthony Scaramucci]

I mean, listen, you know. You know, here's the thing, okay? Like your roommate, Scott Galloway, okay? He's the type of guy that could actually pull it off. Honestly, I think he could pull off Q Cuban while you live. You don't think he could pull it? I think he could.

[Kara Swisher]

Not Scott, but Cuban, yes.

[Anthony Scaramucci]

Okay, okay. All right. Cuban. I mean, somebody like that could probably pull it off, but then they have to do something that is ridiculously Lincoln esque in terms of its heroism. You gotta piss every single person off in power to reframe the argument. Okay? Teddy Roosevelt got the Robert Barons in place and said, hey, mf, we're going to break up your trust. We're going to knock out your monopolies. I got at these poor people. The tenements are coming down on them and they're going to come after you with a pitchfork and a torch. You want them to set fire to your mansion? Knock it off. Knock it off. So it requires somebody that doesn't care about the power structure. And that's why I can't name somebody, because everybody that's in the power cares about the power structure. I don't give a shit about the power structure.

[Kara Swisher]

It has to be you and me. It has to be you and me. That's what's gonna happen.

[Anthony Scaramucci]

Well, you can have the top job, by the way. Okay, we'll give you the top job.

[Kara Swisher]

I don't have the top job. I would be so bad.

[Anthony Scaramucci]

You'd be the Red Light Therapy president.

[Kara Swisher]

Oh, no way. Those things don't work.

[Anthony Scaramucci]

You'll be the Longevity President.

[Kara Swisher]

Don't work. Don't work.

[Anthony Scaramucci]

But the Sauna president. The sauna president.

[Kara Swisher]

Sauna. Just being a sauna. Naked. I'll do from there. Anyway, Anthony, as always, fantastic.

[Anthony Scaramucci]

I love being on with you. Thank you for inviting me back. And tell Scott I miss him and wish him a happy Easter.

[Kara Swisher]

I listeners, we want to hear from you. Let us know what you think of Anthony. Send us your questions about business, tech or whatever's on your mind. Go to nymag.com pivot submit a question for the show or call 85551, pivot. This is a big week for both of us. We got nominated for Webby Awards. Pivot. And on with Kara Swisher got nominated and your limited series podcast with Scott Lost Boys also got nominated. We want your vote because we're not too proud to beg. Go to the link in the episode description to vote for us. I'm very pleased for you and congratulations. Congratulations and I will see you next week. Okay, that's the show. Thanks for listening to Pivot and be sure to like and subscribe to our YouTube channel. We'll be back next week. I will read us out. Today's show was produced by Lara Naiman, Zoe Marcus and Taylor Griffin. Ernie Androdrat engineered this episode. Manola Moreno edited the video. Nishat Kurwa is Vox Media's executive producer. Podcast. Make sure to follow Pivot and anything Anthony does on your favorite podcast podcast platform. Thanks for listening to Pivot from New York Magazine and Vox Media. You can subscribe to the [e-mail] pod we'll be back next week for another breakdown of all things tech and business. Thank you, Anthony.

[Anthony Scaramucci]

Great to be on with you. Thank you. Happy Easter again.