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- [00:01]
Kara Swisher
Support for on with Kara Swisher comes from the 2027 Chevy Bolt. Oh, I love the Chevy Bolt. I have mine. How long is 25 minutes? The quick workout or a stop to the grocery store. It's all the amount of time it takes you to charge your Chevy Bolt. As I said, I drive the Chevy Bolt myself. An older version. And now the Bolt is back and better than ever. I may have to trade it in. You can charge from 10% to 80% in just 25 minutes. With public DC fast charging, that's about half the length of this very podcast. Explore Chevy's most afford EV@chevy.com Bold actual charge times will vary. See Owner's manual for details and limitations. Let me say again, I love my car. Never had a problem with it. Best car I've ever owned. Buy the Chevy Bolt.
- [00:48]
Scott Galloway
Support for the show comes from Cor Weave. Everywhere you look, AI is expanding what we thought was possible. And at the center of it all is Core Weave. Medical research and diagnosis, education, complex visual effects for movies, science and technology breakthroughs. CoreWeave powers AI pioneers around the world with purpose built tech building what's never been built before. CoreWeave is the essential cloud for AI. Ready for anything. Ready for AI to learn more about how CoreWeave powers the world's best AI, go to coreweave.com readyfor anything.
- [01:20]
Kara Swisher
Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile with a message for everyone. Paying big wireless way too much. Please, for the love of everything good in this world, stop with Mint. You can get premium wireless for just $15 a month. Of course, if you enjoy overpaying. No judgments. But that's weird. Okay, one judgment. Anyway, give it a try@mintmobile.com Switch upfront payment of $45 for 3 month plan equivalent to $15 per month required intro rate first 3 months only, then full price plan options available, taxes and fees extra. See full terms@mintmobile.com I should parent everybody.
- [01:52]
Scott Galloway
I think you kind of do.
- [01:57]
Kara Swisher
Hi everyone, this is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast network. I'm Kara Swisher.
- [02:01]
Scott Galloway
And I'm Scott Galloway.
- [02:03]
Kara Swisher
So I just flew in from San Francisco and boy, are my arms tired.
- [02:06]
Scott Galloway
I've heard that joke before.
- [02:07]
Kara Swisher
I know. I don't know why I keep doing the night flights things. I just keep. I think I'm getting too old for it. But I had. As you can hear, everybody, I have a cold. And I actually was there to interview Gavin Newsom for his book Young man in a Hurry, which is now, I guess old man In a hurry. And so I went in to do that, and it was actually a fantastic interview. We'll talk about it.
- [02:31]
Scott Galloway
And it's gotten a lot of news.
- [02:33]
Kara Swisher
Yeah, I did. I made a lot. I'm a newsmaker, my friend. I mean.
- [02:36]
Scott Galloway
And I just. Just to be clear, to give you insight into our relationship, he. There was someone put out a thing saying that he was in support of. He changed his tone or he's in support of regime change. And I wrote smart, and you berated me. So why don't you give us.
- [02:50]
Kara Swisher
Not publicly. We're going to talk about it. We're going to. Let's. Let's. We'll get into it. I didn't berate you. It just was inaccurately depicting the interview I had just done.
- [02:59]
Scott Galloway
Because I wrote. Because I wrote the word smart?
- [03:02]
Kara Swisher
No, because you were tweeting an inaccurate report. That's all.
- [03:06]
Scott Galloway
Who wrote out the inaccurate report?
- [03:07]
Kara Swisher
I don't know. It just was weird. It was weird because it was so not what he said. And so it just annoys me. It just annoys me. I mean, I definitely made a lot of news in that interview, by the way. We talked a lot about his book, which was interesting, but he's definitely not
- [03:22]
Scott Galloway
running for president because no president ever puts out a book before they run for president.
- [03:25]
Kara Swisher
I know. Well, no, he kept saying that he wasn't sure. It was really funny. And then right afterwards, it's actually, I like the book. It's gotten some bad reviews, but I think they've just decided who he is and are reviewing it based on sort of that unctuous, toady, slick image versus a lot of stuff that he's done. That's brave. He's a very complex person, like yourself, Scott Galloway.
- [03:46]
Scott Galloway
I've heard it's actually pretty authentic.
- [03:49]
Kara Swisher
Yeah. Let me just characterize this discussion. The book I really like, I have to say, and I think I found out a lot of things about him that I didn't know his. About his mother. I knew a little bit about his mother's assisted suicide, but it was really interesting to talk about a lot about his own struggles and not. It wasn't the dyslexia part. We didn't talk a lot about that, but a lot about. I didn't know his wife had had a miscarriage, for example. He has four kids. He almost had five. There's a lot in there. There was a lot in there. And one of the things that struck me, which brings me back to you, which I know how you like that. Thank you. He was the wife. He was the son of a single mom who was not wealthy. And he has a lot of resonances to your. With your mom, you know what I mean? Like your story with your single mom who was struggling father who was distant and who he desperately wanted to be with. It was really. It reminded me a lot of you, actually.
- [04:46]
Scott Galloway
I think people underestimate Newsom and I think they underestimate DeSantis and Rubio. But I think right now, you know, I think Governor Newsom, hands down is the leading candidate on the Democratic side. And not only that, I think I know a little bit about his personal story and I actually think it's quite compelling. And a lot of his personal failings I think will come across as a bit authentic. People know about them. And also I think California is going to begin not to peak, but to recover at just the right moment for him.
- [05:18]
Kara Swisher
Yeah, I suspect. Anyway, it was really interesting because I did feel like I was having the same discussion you and I have had about single moms.
- [05:25]
Scott Galloway
No, look, we're the same person, except he's much more talented and handsome and higher character than me. Other than that, we're the same guy.
- [05:31]
Kara Swisher
That's what he suffers from. That's what everybody's sensing. And not to him. He definitely played into it. We talked about that. It was a very personal thing. But we did get a lot of news in too.
- [05:39]
Scott Galloway
Yeah, I'm reading about it everywhere.
- [05:41]
Kara Swisher
I know.
- [05:42]
Scott Galloway
I literally see Gavin Newsom and this 11 year old boy on stage and I'm like, oh, I know her.
- [05:47]
Kara Swisher
And my voice is. So for those listening to it, I apologize. This is a good version of my voice. It was so I was absolutely dead hoarse three hours before and I thought I'd have to cancel, but I did all manner of things to my voice to allow it to work. And he got to. And I said, you're lucky to today. I've never had a man over talk me. So you're gonna get some chance to do that today, which was funny. And he does talk a lot, let me just say. So let's get right into it. President Trump says the US military intends to continue its assault on Iran for four to five weeks if necessary. He keeps changing his tune. We'll get to that in a second. The US and Israel began strikes on Saturday, killing Iran's supreme leader, the Ayatollah, as well as several senior officials. Iran is retaliating all over the place with missiles and drones targeting Israel, the US bases in Gulf countries, Dubai, all man of places. Four American Service members have been killed and Trump says there will likely be more, but, quote, that's the way it is. Kind of a callous way to put it. Three US jets were also shot down in a friendly fire incident over Kuwait. The crew members got out safely, thank goodness. These are $90 million jets. That's $270 million. Trump has justified the attack on Iran, which did not receive congressional approval, by citing, quote, imminent threats, though he not provided evidence that it looks like he doesn't have any. That said, a lot of people are celebrating the death of the Ayatollah. Defense Secretary Pete Hegsetz held a presser a little while ago. He said this is not so called regime change war, but a regime sure did change. Not clear if either of them is true because Trump has talked about regime change and it doesn't appear as the regime has changed. Heg Sachs was also asked about the timeline. Let's listen to what he says. If we can hear him directly to
- [07:35]
Scott Galloway
the media outlets and political left screaming, endless wars. Stop. This is not Iraq. This is not endless. I was there for both. Our generation knows better. And so does this president. He called the last 20 years of nation building wars dumb. And he's right. This is the opposite.
- [07:58]
Kara Swisher
Well, it's nice to hear from a stoked boast model who doesn't know what he's talking about. But I also want to note about this interview I did with California Governor Gavin Newsom over the weekend for the latest episode of on with Karis Fisher. It's really interesting because one of the issues was all the misinformation online. It was really quite. It wasn't just something you tweeted, but it was all over the place, misreporting where he stands on all this. Let's listen to what he told me. And this was just a small piece of it because he went on for a while decrying Donald Trump's action. Let's go.
- [08:26]
Scott Galloway
And that's Donald Trump, the chaos president. This wrecking ball President across the board. Destruction is not strength. And once again, we've seen him destroy not only our allies in relationship to the rest of the world, but we're
- [08:44]
Kara Swisher
seeing him destroy any capacity to explain
- [08:47]
Scott Galloway
fundamentally what the core American interest is at this moment. To declare war, to go to war with the regime. And all of this is playing out in real time.
- [09:00]
Kara Swisher
Newsom posted on X over the weekend. The corrupt, impressive Iranian regime must never have nuclear weapons. Leadership of Iran must go. But that doesn't justify the President of the United States engaging in a Legal, dangerous war. Very similar to what Senator Warner said. All the senators pretty much said this guy deserved to die. And at the same time, this seems like a chaotic mess. Let's talk a little bit about it and especially the economic impact. Fighting has effectively shut down the Strait of Hormuz, which carries one fifth of the world's oil supply. As is recording, oil prices are up about 7%. Gas futures jumped as much as 9%. Spike in energy places supply chain strain, broader ripple effects across the global economy, especially because of the uncertainty. And the last thing I would note is, and it's interesting because Trump does respond to this, is that there's much reporting, including in the Washington Post about how he was convinced to do it through Mohammed bin Salman and Benjamin NETANYAHU and even J.D. vance and General Kaine did not want to do this. But here we are. So talk a little bit about where it's going to go from here. And your thoughts?
- [10:08]
Scott Galloway
Well, the honest answer is I have no idea or I have a vision for where you hope it goes. But I'm sympathetic to Governors Newsom and Senator Warner the notion that we're going to end up after Trump is gone. We have to be thoughtful about how we improve the tensile strength of our democracy by stopping the slow but steady leak of power from Congress, which is the people, to the president under the auspices or cold comfort that they will stick to certain norms because effectively a president should not be able military action you can maybe justify. But this is war.
- [10:49]
Kara Swisher
He used the word war.
- [10:50]
Scott Galloway
I know this is war. It is war. And I'm sympathetic to the notion that the reason we have 535 members of Congress representing two per state in the Senate and one for every 750,000 people as the American people are supposed to have a say. But Democrats at 7% are actually in favor of this. So there's going to need to be the best thing we could do coming out or one of the best things I think coming out of the Trump administration and this highlights that is to have structural reform around gerrymandering Citizens United and that Congress has to be involved or briefed or that we have to go back to this notion where only Congress can decide if in fact we go to war. Now, where could this go? As you know, I'm in favor, loosely speaking around this action because I always like to my I like to ask myself what could go right. Iran is 90 million people, sits on the second largest natural gas reserves, the third largest oil reserves, incredible science, incredible universities, incredible entrepreneurial spirit. Actually Quite a non secular it was, that's for sure. Non secular. Well, I would argue anyways fairly non secular. A lot less anti west than people have been led to believe by what I think is one of the most oppressive, brutal regimes in history. So what could go right? You could have one of the largest economies in the Middle east become more pro West. It's been punching below its weight class for 20 or 30 years now because of poor technology and sanctions. You could immediately see it come up and be an economic power that is pro west, pro trading, pro capitalist. What effectively might be one of the biggest tax cuts in history. If you saw more consistent flows of oil and technology and a great trading partner, I actually think Europe would be the biggest beneficiary and turn what has been the primary agent of chaos and terror in an unstable region into something resembling, I don't even call it pro west, but neutral West. So I think there's a lot that could go right here and I think the risk assessment provided to the President in my view, had a lot of asymmetric upside. Now having said that, what they missed here was part of the Powell Doctrine and that is you have to have clearly articulated objectives or plans for next beyond. Well, they haven't. And to your point, they just haven't been able to articulate in the last 24 hours what is the off ramp and the objective here. Is it regime change? Is it a more friendly regime? Is it, I mean, what exactly? And not only that, you're not going to get this notion that all of a sudden we're going to provide air cover and the Iranian people are going to rise up and overtake 150,000 members of the IRGC who are deeply integrated into.
- [13:38]
Kara Swisher
They have outside plans. There's some great reporting on this, by the way, by my legitimate news organizations. They have contingency plans in place for what happens if the Ayatollah dies and they're carrying them out.
- [13:52]
Scott Galloway
Okay? But in Syria, Libya, in Iraq, these were autocracies with a central figurehead. The IRGC is very deeply embedded into the economy. So when your mortgage and your salary is being paid by the irgc, it's not like, oh, okay, the top guy Assad is gone and boom, it's a new administration. So there's a lot about the ground game, there's a lot about intelligence assets. And if they had said we are going to, for example, a potential off ramp, we're going to neuter their navy, we're going to diminish their air defense capabilities, we're Going to make sure for sure there is absolutely no ability to create or enrich nuclear stockpiles. And then we're going to leave it up to the Iranian people. That's technically an off ramp. But I have seen in the last 24 hours them talk about regime change. No, this isn't regime change. So they haven't been able to articulate what is next.
- [14:46]
Kara Swisher
Well, I don't believe they thought about it. I mean, one of the things that a lot of people are pointing out is the involvement of Netanyahu and head of Saudi Arabia, who publicly had said he was against this, but privately was quite for it and pressing for it. The linkage between the corruption with the Trump family and this coin operated presidency that I talk about all the time is really very clear because most, I would say they're trying to come up with a story after the fact. Oh, it hasn't worked. It isn't an endless war. Although it feels kind of like an endless war. It feels very Bushian. Right. You definitely had echoes of that. I think he thought it was gonna be like Venezuela. Right. That it was like, just take that guy out. And by the way, he's in business with the Maduro administration. He didn't regime change that place at all. Like speaking of regime change, this is much more complicated. I agree, but I think he thought it was like that.
- [15:36]
Scott Galloway
No, I'm agreeing with you. This is not take out Maduro and this is much more.
- [15:42]
Kara Swisher
He just has cowed the regime into it. But it's the same regime in this case. It's really fascinating how they have put themselves into this economy in a way that's very hard to get them out. Right. Of course, this is their point of these very corrupt and I would say evil mullahs in Iran. But one of the things that's fascinating to me is one, the continued corruption of Trump's family and Trump in this region. And second of all, that he keeps calling. Have you noticed? He's calling all. I'm waiting for a call from him myself. He called Jake Tapper, he called a bunch of John Carl. He's called all the regular old media people essentially, or the people he decries all the time. And it seems like he's workshopping different reasons. That's so disturbing.
- [16:36]
Scott Galloway
Yeah, he's trying to, trying to figure out what people want. But there is again what could go right here. The most powerful instinct of survival and what we pulled off here. And when I say we, I actually think it was more the Mossad than us. We effectively and I don't think people really register how profound this was. Within about two hours, we took out the equivalent of the President, the Secretary of Defense, and the head of the Joint Chiefs.
- [17:04]
Kara Swisher
Right. They were all in the same place. But yes.
- [17:06]
Scott Galloway
And then, and what has got to be the strategic mistake of, I would say, the last five years, other than the decision by Hamas to go into Israel geopolitically, they started attacking civilian targets within the Gulf.
- [17:22]
Kara Swisher
Fareed Zakaria noted that this is a mistake.
- [17:26]
Scott Galloway
I mean, that's just okay. You want to isolate yourself from your. From who should naturally be sympathetic to you. Now, the going back to this notion of survival instinct, at some point, you gotta think the next level down. And I don't know if it's 1,000 or 10,000 or 100,000 of the 150,000 IRGCs say, okay, we too, really like our families in this thing called life. Maybe we need to come to some sort of accommodation with the US and the West.
- [17:53]
Kara Swisher
So that would require, as you know, boots on the ground. And Trump didn't even rule that out. Again, like this. Here's the. What really drives me crazy, this idea. They're like, it's not endless war. The other presidents were just dumb. It's the same thing. You, you know, they're, they're just trying very hard to spin it. And by the way, you noted a poll that half Americans support it. It's actually not the case. Many of the polls are showing 25% usually.
- [18:16]
Scott Galloway
I didn't say that. 55% of Republicans, and it's about 30% now. Amongst Democrats, it's 7%. And I'm amongst the 7% of Democrats who support this. But it's a little. Because, okay, what they're hoping for, and maybe it's a hallucination, that it's not boots on the ground, that it's sandals and sneakers and slippers, that the Iranian people. Based on the problem is the 30,000 people that have been mowed down were the front lines. They were the Marines, they were the shock troops who were willing to risk their lives. So the reality is kind of what the off ramp will be or how this plays out or how it plays out in the next week in terms of the Iranian populace's ability to foment change on the ground because the American public does not have any appetite height for boots on the ground. But I talked to a senator this morning. I'm like, isn't a reasonable off ramp that you would say, okay, we're going to diminish their ability to wreak havoc to a point 0.1. We're going to control the skies. We're going to diminish their navy, we're going to clear out their minesweepers from the Straits of Hormuz. We're going to absolutely ensure there is zero capability nuclear. And then we're going to declare.
- [19:22]
Kara Swisher
So what you said was obliterated in June. Just let's point that out.
- [19:25]
Scott Galloway
Fair point. Again, more inconsistency. Why did we need to go back in to diminish their nuclear capacity when you said it was done seven months ago? So there is inconsistent messaging. But I think the lies, that's called lies, in my opinion, the opportunities here to diminish the capacity to continue to levy this depravity and oppression amongst its populace and potentially liberate one of the great cultures in civilization's history that sits on unbelievable economic potential, economic prosperity. There is a real potential upside here.
- [19:58]
Kara Swisher
You know where else there's a potential of upside is Ukraine. Same thing.
- [20:01]
Scott Galloway
Agreed.
- [20:02]
Kara Swisher
So what's really interesting to hear is he yells at Europe for not. Not pulling their fair share in defense. Fine. I can see that argument, even though he makes it in the crude and repulsive way. Why isn't Saudi Arabia and Israel paying for this? We're doing their cop duty and we happen to have a corrupt cop on the beat.
- [20:21]
Scott Galloway
Oh, Israel sacrifice, I'm talking about.
- [20:24]
Kara Swisher
You don't hear the same language. Right. If Saudi Arabia wanted this to happen, they should pay for it. Like, if that's really the thing, why do I have to pay, as an American taxpayer, $270 million for three planes? Like that kind of stuff. And so. And why aren't. Why isn't this money deployed elsewhere? That I think is in our. Not me. I'm not running this show. But like, why isn't Ukraine the same thing? Like, that's what's really interesting. Because there's a country that is full of, like, economic talk about economic opportunities. Same thing. Let me focus you on the toll on the US Economy because all these a free. Well, first of all, every attempt at regime change in the Middle east has failed almost miserably for the United States or a version of regime change. Afghanistan, everywhere. Everywhere we go.
- [21:10]
Scott Galloway
Well, I did, to be fair, I did work in the Balkans. We have had successful interventions in Kuwait. We successfully repelled. The difference there is we did it multilaterally, which he's stupid to do here. Already Britain, our closest ally, is humming and hawing about letting us use their airfields. He wants to go. It Alone, which is stupid. Anyway, I interrupted you talking about the economics here.
- [21:29]
Kara Swisher
So I want to know about the effect on the US Economy because one of the things, because the these when people start a war, it tends to be in the 60s period. Right? Right. It's 25. And I get that the Democrats don't like it, but in a 25 is a bad place to start when you're doing a war, which if you remember, remember the stud Scud and everyone being vaguely excited when they were doing those. I mean, even myself, which is grotesque because I now have children. I'm like, oh no, no, no. But talk about the toll on the economy because every. And the MAGA people, Green car, even more heinous people are talking about this is not what we voted for. Right. This is not. And they're trying very desperately to pretend it's not an endless war. It's whatever word they're going to use is not going to work with these people. He's already struck seven countries, seven events. He's done more war. It was interesting because Hillary Clinton was so prescient about exactly what he would do here. He seems to like and have an appetite for military action because everything's going so badly for him. So talk about the effect on the US Economy, oil prices. Right. Inflation, more danger for the US in terms of attacks on our own soil from the Iranians. I mean, if you back these Iranians into a corner, they may do something really dire here in this country. What is the toll in the US economy? And let me add in that people were using this war to cash in on online betting markets, which was repulsive. Kalshi reportedly saw 36 in BET volume related to whether or not there'll be regime change in Iran. On polymarket, 529 million was traded on contracts tied to the timing of the strikes. And some of them seem rather suspect. Poly Market defended its decision to allow betting on the start of the war, saying it's invaluable source of news and answers. It feels like profiteering to me. But talk a little bit about the impact on the economy. What's next? Think of two scenarios. What's next for the economy?
- [23:32]
Scott Galloway
Well, just to go in reverse order, I actually would. Would argue that we have diminished. I mean, you have what was the superpower in the region with their proxies, Hezbollah, Hamas, the Houthis, wreaking havoc economically and in terms of oppression of different people in the region. And their organizing principle was death to Israel and death to America. And I would argue that even if we don't have the regime change or a quote unquote liberated capitalist west friendly Iran that their ability to strike at us and our proxies overseas in our bases is actually been diminished that they're not now. We need to be more worried. I think we need to actually be less worried. There are two scenarios here. One scenario is we end up in another forever war that explodes our deficits and we keep incrementally making excuses for trying to impose democracy, which is an oxymoron. And oil prices, the Strait of Hormuz gets blocked off and oil prices skyrocket. Now, to a certain extent, if you wanted to be really Machiavellian, that doesn't hurt us that much because we are energy independent. Who this really is hurting, both Venezuela and Iran is China. 80% of Iran's oil was going to China. The same with Venezuela. So we can survive an oil shock, but you could have an increase in deficits of a forever war, disruption in supply chain, straining our relationships with the allies. I personally think there's more asymmetric upside where we unlock stronger oil flows, better technology, a potential trading partner for Europe and the US And I would argue, I would bet that I believe in six months that oil prices will be lower than they are today. Now, to your point about cost and economics, I am sympathetic to the left's view. Many people on the left that these forever wars and foreign intervention and imperialists imposing our own values on other cultures and other nations is not only wrong, it is just really fucking expensive. I'm sympathetic to that. What I'm not sympathetic to.
- [25:42]
Kara Swisher
Can I make a correction? Charlie Kirk talked about this. The right, this has been an animating.
- [25:47]
Scott Galloway
Well, I was just about to get there. Kara. The right has a very strong isolationist bent. What is inconsistent? For me, it is consistent to say let's focus on our problems domestically, let's spend money domestically, let's not run up deficits with tax cuts and forever wars in a macho military and let's stay out of other people's knitting, recognizing that we respect their right to do it, to govern themselves and shape their own future. What is totally inconsistent is the far right or the right's isolationist rhetoric while approving a $1.1 trillion military budget. Because my view is the only rationale for having a $1.1 trillion military budget is quite frankly is if on regular basis you're going to go on your toes. Because if we don't want to get involved in this kind of foreign adventures or misadventures Whatever you want to characterize it, there's no risk of Canada invading us. Let's take our military budget down to 300 billion and pay off our deficit. So I've never understood the right's fascination with with ridiculous military spending and then this isolationist complexion. I personally think the upside over the medium and the long term here economically with a peaceful Middle east once its primary sponsor of terror is neutered here, actually I think this over the medium and the long term could be really good for Europe. And if we could figure out a way to end the war in Ukraine, figure out a way to have a neutral West Iran, I think you're going to see the largest tax cut in history because I think the flows of oil will cut oil probably in half. And you'll have an incredible trading partner with what is one of the most productive capitalist in many ways societies in history. And that's the Persian people.
- [27:27]
Kara Swisher
Yeah, that is true. I understand. One of the things that troubles me is one is that he really doesn't seem to have a plan and he's the president. Right. And that people within his administration, he'll
- [27:39]
Scott Galloway
call you and ask you for your plan for a half.
- [27:40]
Kara Swisher
He's going to. My plan is for you to step down. But then I would get J.D. vance, but that's my suggestion. And you should go off and spend all the money you've stolen from the American people. But one of the things that I think about a lot is that this is done in such a haphazard way without the involvement of Congress. Right. That really is troublesome. And that these Republicans who are against these things immediately get in line. Now look, Lindsey Graham, that southern belle has always been wanting to do this, right? I mean now he wants to go from. He is a southern bell and he's wanted to do this. He wants to do Cuba next. Let's do Cuba next. Right? That's the whole thing. This is all he just in his mistaken.
- [28:28]
Scott Galloway
Cuba isn't blinding its women. It's not hanging teenage girls and then sanctioning rape of them.
- [28:33]
Kara Swisher
He said Cuba. He did, Yeah, I agree.
- [28:35]
Scott Galloway
No, I'm saying that makes in my opinion as much as a war hawk as I am, I see no logical reason to invade Cuba.
- [28:41]
Kara Swisher
Well, I think that's next. It seems like they're just going to get bored over here and come over here. But this is something Lindsey Graham has wanted forever in his. His endless and sad attempt to be more masculine in some fashion. So fine, fine, Lindsay, that's fine. But one of the things that really drives me crazy is these people are so. They shift. These people say one thing one week and then shift it the next week. Like, look, I know you like to attack left, but they're sticking to their guns on these kind of things.
- [29:08]
Scott Galloway
I'm sorry, I like to attack what?
- [29:09]
Kara Swisher
Oh, the left a lot. But the right just shifts it. It's like we're against it, we're against it, we're against it. Charlie Kirk said, let's not be dragged into this by so and so. Let's focus here.
- [29:20]
Scott Galloway
Okay, then let's cut our military budget to 300 billion.
- [29:23]
Kara Swisher
I get it, I get it, but I just don't see why they don't they shift this way. It's really. It's sad because I like when there's argument over what we should do here in a way that everybody gets to.
- [29:36]
Scott Galloway
And it's meant to be a discourse in the Congress. I agree with that. Barry Goldwater called us in the 70s. He said that we have become dangerously used to a slow leak of power from the co equal branches of government and Congress to the President. And what kept that mostly in check was a series of norms where the President would go and inform the Senate Intelligence Committee or the people on the Defense Committee that he would give them a heads up. He'd invite them to the White House and say, this is what we're thinking. What do you think? Those norms are gone. And so there's gotta be, unless there is structural reform around what it means to have co equal brow. Republicans are resigning from Congress because they're like, why the fuck am I here? Yeah, yeah, well, I'm not even gonna. The speaker of the House is not Mike Johnson. He's the speaker of the White House. He's there to run roughshod over. People in the minority party are used to getting fucked over. They're used to having no power. But Republicans are like, let me get this. I stuck around to be in the majority such that I could represent my people and get policies through. And I'm not even being consulted on this shit.
- [30:37]
Kara Swisher
No. And on the Democratic, I'd say centrist conservative. I have never seen Senator Warner, who I consider pretty conservative. Pretty. Like he's a moderate. Moderate more than. I mean, I think he's often. We often disagree on a lot of stuff. He was incandescent. Cause he sees these things. He knows he has so much experience in Senate intelligence, et cetera, et cetera. And to watch people who had said the very opposite shift was really something because at the very bottom of this, it puts people's lives at risk unnecessarily. And not just American troops, which is terrible. It's people on the ground there, Iranian citizens, which American troops. And I worry about American people attacking here. And it just creates a situation that when you. There's just a. This guy. This guy's gotta have a better reason than to call someone and have a different reason every minute. And we'll see its effect on. The stock market's not loving this at all. But we'll see. We'll see where it goes.
- [31:40]
Scott Galloway
But you brought up Kalshee. And what's fascinating about these things is they tend to be right, that there's a real wisdom of the crowds. And when you have Senator Warner, who has just had a lot. This is not his first rodeo. He's had a ton of presidents and Joint Chiefs come before him and explain their plans. And when you have Senator Mark Kelly, who's actually flown these missions, if you don't take advantage of the benefit of their insight, even if they don't agree with you, you're not taking advantage of the greatest depth, the greatest IP depth of knowledge and experience in military history. And that's amongst, quite frankly, many of our members of Congress. If you're not bringing Representative Seth Moulton in and saying, hey, when you were on the ground in Iraq, I mean, instead we're consulting with a senator from Florida, a former Fox TV host and a reality game show host. They're making these decisions.
- [32:41]
Kara Swisher
And the FBI is being run by a guy who likes to party in the middle of a possible terror terrorist action in this country.
- [32:48]
Scott Galloway
So they're just going to make. And this is. I always like to try and reverse engineer to a personal learning here. One of my biggest flaws, biggest flaws as a man is I thought that masculinity and leadership was making a quick survey of the situation and then making a decision. And then it was my job to talk everyone into my decision. No, it's not. Leadership is listening and occasionally going, oh, fuck, I got it wrong. We need to switch course. I don't make. Now, I didn't learn this until I was literally 50. I don't make a big decision personally, financially, professionally, without talking to three or four really fucking smart people, because you can't read the label from inside of the bottle. And the U.S. congress is full of some of the most impressive, experienced, smartest people in the world.
- [33:37]
Kara Swisher
And beyond that, there's people all over the world.
- [33:39]
Scott Galloway
And also they have this incredible task of representing their constituency to not check in with them. I think Senator Warner is apoplectic because he's like, for God's sakes, we can save you from yourself.
- [33:52]
Kara Swisher
That's right. That's right. He wasn't out of ego. I've never seen him do that. It was really interesting. Anyway, we have to move on. This is a developing story. We'll see what happens. It seems like a very, as Gavin Newsom said, chaotic White House. It might be trying to get us away from the Epstein files or other issues at home. We didn't even talk about the distraction, but we'll go on a quick break. We come back Trump targets Anthropic, another incredible tech company in what former Trump official calls attempted corporate murder.
- [34:23]
Scott Galloway
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- [36:31]
Kara Swisher
Hey, Kara Swisher here. I want to let you know that Vox Media is returning to south by Southwest in Austin for live tapings of your favorite podcast. Join us from March 13th through the 15th for live tapings of today, explained Teffy Talk, Prof. G Markets and of course your two favorite podcasts, Pivot and On with Kara Swisher. The stage will also feature sessions from Brene Brown and Adam Grant, Marques Brownlee, Keith Lee, Vivian Tew and Robin Arzon. It's all part of the Vox Media Podcast stage at south by Southwest, presented by Odoo. Visit voxmedia.comsxsw to pre register and get your special discount on your innovation badge. That's voxmedia.comsxsw to register. Really, you should register. We sell out and we hope to see you there. Scott, we're back. President Trump ordered federal agencies to stop using Anthropic after it did not come to a deal with the Pentagon on safety. The Defense Department will phase out the use of Anthropic products over the next six months, which will, I will tell you, hurt national security. Anthropic plans to challenge the supply chain designation designation in court. Good for them. When it comes to the App Store, Anthropic is winning. Claude is the number one spot in the Apple's free apps as we tape. Anthropic also faced a major outage on Monday, with the company saying it's been dealing with, quote, unprecedented demand. Meanwhile, OpenAI, of course, Sam Ever the opportunist, OpenAI's Sam Altman reached an agreement with the Pentagon. The company claims it found a way to ensure its technologies would adhere to its safety principles by installing Technocrats. When Sam Altman was asked on us whether he worried about there'd be future disputes with the Pentagon or what's legal, he responded, yes, I am. Oh my God, Sam, I gotta tell you, you need to stop talking. A former Trump official called Anthropic order attempted corporate murder. It's the backdrop of OpenAI raising 110 billion in its latest funding round, including $50 billion from Amazon and $30 billion from both Nvidia and SoftBank. And these continue round tripping kind of deals. I read a lot this weekend about this and one of the people involved was a guy named Emil Michael who used to be an executive at Uber, who was possibly one of the most bullying and awful executives and full of all manner of bad behaviors. When there he left the company and we wrote some stories of a thing he was involved in that was just so not a good behavior. I would say. I have spent time with him. He was the one that was was negotiating this. Not a surprise. He kept calling Dario Amodi from Anthropic Godlike God. He thinks he's God or whatever. I've never met anyone who thinks he's God more than Emile Michael and he's usually a toady to more powerful people, in this case Pete Hegseth Anyway, it seems a ridiculous overreach on the behalf of government. Probably Anthropic will win. I think it probably will benefit from this, as you've noted many times. Any more thoughts on this? I don't think we're any safer as a people for having done this.
- [39:43]
Scott Galloway
I think what people miss is that over the last 12 months out of 23 markets we're the 21st best performing or the third worst. And what has changed? We've had incredible innovation.
- [39:55]
Kara Swisher
DAO is up 50,000. Sorry.
- [39:58]
Scott Galloway
We still have incredible innovation. We dominate the most tectonic shift in technology. The thing that's changing is I believe we're experiencing a rotation out of US stocks and a compression of multiples. And the reason why is the following. The underpinnings of why so much capital flows into the US from every other market in the world is our incredible ip, developed mostly through funding of research at universities, an incredibly risk aggressive culture based on immigrants who take huge risks to get here. And also I think more than anything probably or chicken and egg, it attracts the deepest pools of capital in history. There's $5 million in venture capital for every startup in the US. There's only 1 million for every startup in Europe. Anthropic started six years ago. If it was in Europe, it'd be one of the 10 most valuable companies. But when governments start selectively punishing and rewarding companies based on political favoritism, that capital gets scared and starts withdrawing. Because why do you invest in OpenAI or anthropic if you don't know who you're waking up next to in terms of its ability to raise capital based on the blood sugar level of whoever's president. So this is not only the wrong thing to do and makes us feel less safe and is probably illegal. It's going to hit your 401, folks. And even in places like the Gulf that are run by autocracies, they have a real respect for systemic laws in the market because they recognize the moment they start fucking with companies based on their own who's in or out of political favor, which has no stock market because nobody wants to invest, and then find out the CEO got a call from the wrong person or got on the wrong list and is all of a sudden out of business. So even in China, people, I think they learned their lesson a little bit with Didi, where they got angry at Didi and basically crushed Didi. They're now, you know, they have a lot of respect for, for essentially govern regulatory bodies, consistent application of rule of law, trying not to play favorites. So this will, the immediate reaction will be, okay, they're wrong, this is illegal, fine. And also from a commercial standpoint, I've been saying for the last year that someone has an incredible commercial opportunity to say, enough, we're the good guys, we do not buy into this. If this costs us money in the short term, fine. But the very American values that gave us so much opportunity are under attack and we're just not down with it. And I don't know if you remember me saying this, I said six months ago, the biggest opportunity for Nike, which is trading at a 10 year low, was to run a bunch of ads saying we're about American values and what's going on here is wrong. What's interesting is corporate America needed a hero and it looks like it's Dario.
- [42:53]
Kara Swisher
I know, it's interesting.
- [42:54]
Scott Galloway
What's really interesting here is I think, and it's finally happening, they're shaping up to be Joe Frazier and Muhammad Ali here. And I think that Dario's being very smart and I think it's up to us. And the media are progressives and I'm obviously stitching this into the racism unsubscribe thinking. I think it's time to start figuring out if there's a way to be more commercially supportive of anthropic and less supportive of OpenAI. Basically, OpenAI has decided to enable and be complicit in the Trump administration's efforts. And Dario and Anthropic have said, no, we're not going along here, we're not going to be intimidated. This is quite Frankly, Kara, I have been waiting for this matchup for a year.
- [43:33]
Kara Swisher
I know. Yeah, I know you have. Let me say, I don't know Dara Emodi. I don't actually. And he might be arrogant, which is in line with most people in tech. That may be true. But I do know Emile Michael, who did negotiate this, and I do know David Sacks. And both of them are Aryan operators. Ceaseless bullies and unctuous toadies to the powerful. In my experience of covering them. Sam Altman is much a little more complex. But he's a gifted opportunist, which doesn't make him that different from anybody in Silicon Valley and has made his choice here. Right. He wants the business. And so I knowing the characters involved here, and then on the top of it, you have an idiot like a moron like Pete Hegseth who doesn't know what's happening, communicating to someone who's even more moronic on these issues, which is Donald Trump, who I think just, I suspect Sachs is whispering in his ear. Emile Michaels whispering in Hegseth's ear. And this is all a Silicon Valley beef, right? Between and among these people. Emil with had to leave Uber under very not great circumstances. Was pushed out. I think all these people's payback for other people. It's just. There's a lot of Silicon Valley drama happening here. And I don't know Dario Modi.
- [44:58]
Scott Galloway
I don't.
- [44:58]
Kara Swisher
I don't. I really don't. It's unusual that I don't. And I've asked for interviews with him. He has not agreed to do an interview with me. Thanks, Chris Nelte. But. But I do. And he did a very good interview with CBS News, actually, which I thought was interesting.
- [45:14]
Scott Galloway
He handled himself really well.
- [45:15]
Kara Swisher
He handled himself really well.
- [45:16]
Scott Galloway
He starched his hat white in that interview.
- [45:19]
Kara Swisher
Yeah, it was a good interview. But one of the things that I know is the people on the other side of him are very people I covered for years who are just not good. How can I say this nicely? They're the worst of the people I had to cover hurt over the many years. I have to say they're literally the worst. And to see them in these positions of power is making these decisions and hurting a company that just doesn't wanna do business with them. And actually Michael tweeted out against Emodi weeks ago. It's so unprofessional. As a government, it's such based in beefs that were happening elsewhere. And Emil, I'm really. I had ended up having drinks with him after he was sort of drummed out of Uber and he said something to me, it was so strange. He goes, well, I'm so glad we can be friends. And I remember saying to him, we're not friends. I think what you did there is terrible. I don't know where you operate, but let him just do what he wants and don't bring your stupid insecure beefs out on the thing. And it will benefit anthropic. It will. I think he's handling himself and he may be arrogant. He may have a God clumps. I don't know. So I don't know. But he's certainly not like these people. And in that case, the bar is low. I've had my say.
- [46:36]
Scott Galloway
I think it's a big opportunity. I think Americans and consumers are so ready to vote with their pocketbooks. And Sam, I don't think Sam has acquitted himself well. I'm not going to have advertising. We would never do porn. Well, I need to raise money. Never mind. And the largest customer in the world, which is the US Government, needs to have a series of systemic laws that don't that these are the rules you get to play by in full stop. Everyone is entitled to and obligated to the same set of rules, not who, who you like or who you don't like. And which kind of leads into our next story, which is Netflix and Paramount, Right?
- [47:14]
Kara Swisher
Netflix. Speaking of that, Scott, let's take a quick break. When we come back, Netflix emerges as a winner after losing the Warner Brothers battle. Scott, we're back. Netflix may have lost the battle for Warner Brothers, but it's looking like a winner. Boy, this is incredible. The company stock surged. 14% of it formally exited the bidding war. It also now has $2.8 billion in the bank after Paramount paid the Warner Brothers breakup fee. Went after. The plan all along was to saddle Paramount with debt, drive up the price and walk away with more money. Ted Sarando said there are easier ways to make $2.8 billion. Very funny. He's also trashing it so beautifully. I have to say. What a pro. The it's ridiculously expensive. He's dropping all sorts of bone mouths in that Bloomberg interview you did. I'm hoping to do an interview with him relatively soon. He noted that Paramount deals dependent on cost cutting leading to less production, less people working. He's 100% right. On the paramount front, CEO David Ellison, who got strafed by Barry Diller as a stunt pilot in Speech. Another thing just announced that Paramount plus and HBO Max will be combined into one streaming service. He also said there would be a lot less. I think a lot of cuts. $6 billion in cuts that he can quickly deleverage it. Nobody believes him or thinks he's capable of doing it. Sarandos had Talked more about 16 billion. Let me just tell you, Hollywood, look out below. This is. Look, I don't think Ellison means to be incorrect, but he is incorrect about what's about to happen here. Because the pressures on this much data. I talked to, as you know, Bill Cohen, because you weren't around last week, begin. But this much debt is enormous amounts of debt. It's like crazy. They don't have enough income. They have barely enough income. So they can't grow. They have to cut. There's going to be, there's obvious duplication that they will cut. But even more than that, anything they say at this point is just absolutely untrue. It's just. And I, again, I don't think they mean it that way. I think they believe it, that they can, you know, turn, turn into a. Into chicken shit, into chicken salad. But most smart math people don't think they can do it. Especially with competitors like Netflix breathing down and YouTube breathing down their neck. Your thoughts?
- [49:35]
Scott Galloway
Well, I think I've been consistent on this. The biggest losers are the creative community. They don't realize it. I don't know, half a million of them just got lined up and shot. I mean, they're, they're. The amount of AI slop we're going to see come out of Paramount and Warner trying to pass for, you know, great breakthrough content. It's just going to be like I said, you know, in space, no one can hear you scream. Oh, trust me, you're going to hear a lot of people scream. And the biggest winner, hands down, and I told Ted this, I said, if you walk from this, you realize your stock's gonna go up 10%. I was wrong. In the last five days, the stock's up 30%.
- [50:18]
Kara Swisher
Yeah. Back to other levels. Yeah.
- [50:20]
Scott Galloway
Okay, so let's look at it this way. They, quote, unquote, technically save $120 billion by not acquiring it, and their stock's up 100 billion. Kara, they could go buy Disney right now for Walking from Warner Brothers. So. And if I were them, and I was Ted, and I'd be pissed off, I'd be firing up my lobbyists and my lawyers and be like, delay an obvious, make it create so much havoc for this deal to close. And by the way, every studio, every creative, they're all going to want to go to work for one place. Okay. Do I want. If I'm pitching. I just had my latest book option for a series and for a documentary, which means absolutely nothing. I've figured out in Hollywood your man,
- [51:05]
Kara Swisher
your notes on being a man.
- [51:07]
Scott Galloway
Yeah, for an original scripted series and a documentary. Anyways, think of it as an R rated Wonder Years is how I've been pitching it.
- [51:14]
Kara Swisher
Who's playing me?
- [51:15]
Scott Galloway
Herve Vilace.
- [51:17]
Kara Swisher
Very funny.
- [51:20]
Scott Galloway
Herve Vilaches in a little tiny sous.
- [51:22]
Kara Swisher
Vide Chalamet. I see chalamet places with a puppy.
- [51:25]
Scott Galloway
German shepherd.
- [51:25]
Kara Swisher
No, chalamet can work. He looks like a teenage boy too.
- [51:28]
Scott Galloway
Anyways, salame. So these guys, the amount of money, let me put this way. Say you're in the creative community and you have the hottest script or you're the hottest actor and you have offers from the Paramount studio, from Warner or for Netflix. Who you absolutely gonna pick?
- [51:50]
Kara Swisher
Netflix. Oh my God.
- [51:52]
Scott Galloway
They're gonna.
- [51:53]
Kara Swisher
Every day of the week and twice a week, hbo. They look like heroes. You all hated Netflix. Now you're gonna love them. It's really. And by the way, when the Democrats power, that's going to be good for them too.
- [52:04]
Scott Galloway
HBO just lost 30% of its value because HBO's asset was it always was able to punch above its weight class. It did 2 billion in content relative to Netflix's 18 billion. But if there was a show people were talking about around the water cooler, whether it was Girls or Euphoria or Game of Thrones or Succession, it usually was HBO. Because HBO's culture and ability. When I'm talking a lot about me, my favorite subject. But when we pitched my big tech series, everybody, all the creatives and all the stars, they all wanted to go with hbo. They love Netflix. But if we had our choice, we would have gone with hbo. Guess what? That just changed overnight completely.
- [52:44]
Kara Swisher
I wouldn't do a thing with them. I have to say. I've got some shows. I don't have no interest in it.
- [52:48]
Scott Galloway
What? So they can figure out how to produce it for a third of the budget using AI?
- [52:52]
Kara Swisher
Yeah, fuck you. And also one of the things that's interesting is that there was an interesting movement and also I think the CNN part of it is a smaller part of it. It still is gonna be news, right? It's still. Because it's cnn, the merger. And they've already made a mess of cbs, but they're going to make a bigger mess of cnn. I, I have heard from so many HBO people that are like Fuck. Like fuck was everything in every like a dozen HBO people. CNN is losing its ever loving mind. Right as they should. And they're like, they're like what do we do, Cara? And I'm like, I don't know. I'm not going to be here. So it's not like substack podcast. I was like, I don't know what to tell you but you know, I wouldn't work for those hacks. But one of the things that's interesting is the idea that Netflix takes a little bit of this money and hires like the, like Anderson Cooper and the best of them and creates a little news service like I, they should like a really good one.
- [53:50]
Scott Galloway
I talked to the woman who runs content and Netflix and I said I have an idea.
- [53:54]
Kara Swisher
Bella, Bella, Bella. Yeah.
- [53:56]
Scott Galloway
Start something called the Hour and hire the two thirds of the people from, from 60 Minutes that would like to leave right now and have a show, weekly show called the hour or 59 minutes.
- [54:07]
Kara Swisher
I offer, I'm like, I'll tell you who's good and who's not. I like, I.
- [54:10]
Scott Galloway
You don't think all of those people are looking for a way to get off the. Get on the last helicopter out of Saigon right now?
- [54:15]
Kara Swisher
Yeah. And a lot of them want to be entrepreneurial. It's really interesting. They, they do see the need to change out. I mean obviously the economics of a lot of broadcast and cable television is out of whack with the revenues clearly all through the industry.
- [54:29]
Scott Galloway
By the way, Netflix is up 30%. Netflix.
- [54:31]
Kara Swisher
Netflix should be.
- [54:32]
Scott Galloway
The market has decided that Netflix is worth $100 billion more by. Not without Warner Brothers.
- [54:40]
Kara Swisher
You could spend a very little amount of money putting together a really interesting news offering. At the same time, you know, as obviously CBS is gonna go, it's going right. In a really weak sauce way. It's really kind of wimpy. Right. And stupid. Right. But I mean if you're going to be right, go all the way to Fox. That's my feeling like. And, and it's, it's an ever dying audience by the way. And I mean my mom's is an average listener. Essentially she's 92. But one of the things that I
- [55:07]
Scott Galloway
think will help Fox is doing really well actually.
- [55:09]
Kara Swisher
Yeah, it has. That's right. You're not going to get, you're not catching Fox.
- [55:11]
Scott Galloway
Here's a crazy stat. Supposedly more moderates watch Fox and CNN right now.
- [55:15]
Kara Swisher
Well, I'm not surprised. It's anyway one of the. Because the news part is I mean like Jennifer and There's several people who are quite good over there. But there's a lot of great people at cnn. Let me be clear. There's a lot of great reporters throughout that organization and they do a great job. People tend to focus on Scott Jennings at night when there's lots of people.
- [55:34]
Scott Galloway
But you mean I feel stupider with Abby Phillips.
- [55:37]
Kara Swisher
Okay, stop, stop. Scott Jennings is the problem over there.
- [55:40]
Scott Galloway
So no, CNN is the problem for
- [55:42]
Kara Swisher
putting him on and having Crossfire, that show is. But I'm saying there's a lot more to CNN than that show. So it gets a lot of attention. But one of the things that I think is interesting is it really opens up an opportunity for Ms. Now because they're by themselves over there on the left. Like it's a great business. Right. Like it's just. It's sort of like the fox of the left. And so they have a huge opportunity.
- [56:06]
Scott Galloway
It seems to me you are in love with traditional.
- [56:08]
Kara Swisher
I'm not.
- [56:08]
Scott Galloway
You are in love with traditional media. This is who it's an opportunity for. For.
- [56:11]
Kara Swisher
It's an opportunity, a small opportunity for
- [56:14]
Scott Galloway
Bill Cohen and Ben Thompson and Kara Swisher. I know that you are about to see a massive diffusion of power from these industrial brands.
- [56:23]
Kara Swisher
It's already happening.
- [56:24]
Scott Galloway
The means of production is way too expensive to all these little media company startups and stub stacks and podcasts.
- [56:30]
Kara Swisher
I agree.
- [56:30]
Scott Galloway
And newsletters and all this hand wringing that. Oh no, the Washington Post can't go away. Doesn't fucking matter, folks. Those people are gonna find their own little niche media companies and they're gonna punch above their weight class. And I can be saddled by the blood sugar level of a guy on human growth hormone in Saint Barts.
- [56:48]
Kara Swisher
I get it. I just think Ms. Now by itself being. I think CNN should have been independent, would have given an opportunity to be innovative. They have an opportunity to be innovative. They do. They absolutely do. And so that's a good thing for them because they're all by themselves over there on them.
- [57:02]
Scott Galloway
This is the best use of cns. We have an iconic popular Gavin Newsom and he stacks his cabinet with CNN anchors. Dana Bash is make a great vice president.
- [57:12]
Kara Swisher
Yeah. Yes. Dana does a great job. There's a lot of really great. There's amazing people.
- [57:16]
Scott Galloway
Michael Smarkanish, I think he could be Secretary of Defense.
- [57:19]
Kara Swisher
There's a lot. Anderson I think does a good job. Every single. Caitlin Collins, I have so much admiration for her.
- [57:25]
Scott Galloway
She can be ambassador to the eu.
- [57:27]
Kara Swisher
Okay.
- [57:28]
Scott Galloway
Literally I can pull together. I could pull Together a cabinet that looks like the fucking Kennedy administration from CNN Angels.
- [57:35]
Kara Swisher
And it would be so much higher than DD said on anything.
- [57:37]
Scott Galloway
Just think about it. Jeanine Pirro. That's, I mean, look who are competing. I'm down. I am down for networks as cabinets at this point. I think the CNN people are so impressive, but they're all about to. And they've been doing this last two years. I'm thinking about starting a podcast because they're having the uncomfortable conversation where I used to make 7 million a year and they've offered me 2.
- [57:57]
Kara Swisher
Have you had every conversation with all of. Not just cnn. It's throughout the.
- [58:01]
Scott Galloway
It's everywhere. It's everywhere.
- [58:02]
Kara Swisher
All the media people, they. I could have a business people anchor
- [58:06]
Scott Galloway
off the most money they've ever made and think that's what I'm worth. No one ever thinks to themselves, wow, I'm overpaid right now. I can prove to you statistically at any moment in time there's a 50% chance you are overpaid right now relative to the market.
- [58:18]
Kara Swisher
I'm not favoring media. I just think it's, I always see it as an opportunity. I always see it as an, like, you can still do well. It's a good business. It makes a lot of profits. You could do well here and it could give you an. It gives an opportunity for Ms. Now to have a lane all to itself. And I think that's always a good thing. Always a good thing.
- [58:35]
Scott Galloway
Who's Ms. Now star? Is it Rachel? She's only one day a week right now.
- [58:38]
Kara Swisher
Rachel, there's a whole bunch of there. But let me say Rebecca Cutler, Stephanie, there's a whole bunch of people over there that are very talented and they're hiring a lot of great reporters. And Rebecca Cutler, who you don't know about is amazing.
- [58:50]
Scott Galloway
Like she's, she hired me at cnn.
- [58:53]
Kara Swisher
She did at the Plew and, and you know, I think there's lots of opportunity and I think the Ellisons will bollocks it. And coming to you soon to Kara Swisher docu series, Kara Swisher Wants to Live Forever on cnn. No, I'm kidding.
- [59:08]
Scott Galloway
I just hope it closes before then so I can see a photo with you and Larry Ellison.
- [59:12]
Kara Swisher
No, it's not, Listen, it's going to be soon. I will be out. I'll have removed my things from the closet long before.
- [59:19]
Scott Galloway
I'm so curious who they're going to ask who they're going to ask to run.
- [59:22]
Kara Swisher
Let me just tell you everybody. Scott Galloway is In the second episode and he's looking fine. And it's an adorable Kara and Scott moment.
- [59:33]
Scott Galloway
That'll save him. That's their answer.
- [59:36]
Kara Swisher
It's actually a really good show, I have to say. I'm very.
- [59:38]
Scott Galloway
You have to say your show's really good. You're gonna love this. I did a podcast today and they asked me what was my favorite moment with Kara Swisher. And I said, when you and your wife came down for the weekend and I let you pick the streaming media thing we were gonna watch, Big fucking mistake. You picked some, like, art heists from PBS or like the history of great museum thefts or something. I went, oh, fuck.
- [60:02]
Kara Swisher
Oh, that was a good show.
- [60:03]
Scott Galloway
And we're sitting there and we're all eating and over comes white LeBron, your 14 year old monster. And he sits down and I'm not exaggerating. We all pop eight inches into the air.
- [60:15]
Kara Swisher
Yeah, it's true. He's bigger than ever.
- [60:17]
Scott Galloway
And also the next day, you, you were scolding him like a mother does, and you were literally, your neck was craning so hard up at him. It was like watching they listen to Mama. It was like watching Billy Barty lecture Shaquille o'. Neal. I said to my sons, I'm like, look at this, look at this. Look what's going on over there. Yeah, anyways, that's my favorite part.
- [60:37]
Kara Swisher
That's right. I should parent everybody.
- [60:40]
Scott Galloway
I think you kind of do.
- [60:41]
Kara Swisher
Anyway, let's go on a quick break. When we come back, wins and fail. Okay, Scott, let's hear some wins and fails. I can go first if you want.
- [60:56]
Scott Galloway
Go first.
- [60:57]
Kara Swisher
I have to say, I talk too much about Heat and Robbie. But I thought Connor's story did a great job on SNL this week. I usually.
- [61:06]
Scott Galloway
Oh, my God, that's my win.
- [61:07]
Kara Swisher
What? What?
- [61:08]
Scott Galloway
That's my win.
- [61:09]
Kara Swisher
You take it. You take it. Let's discuss it. Go out ahead. Go ahead, take it.
- [61:13]
Scott Galloway
I feel that SNL thread. My win was snl. I thought they thread the needle perfectly this week.
- [61:21]
Kara Swisher
Yeah, not every week.
- [61:22]
Scott Galloway
Yeah, they. They honored the women's team. But at the same time, I think it's bullshit. All the shit the men have taken.
- [61:28]
Kara Swisher
Yeah, they do.
- [61:29]
Scott Galloway
I think for them to. Wouldn't it been great if you listen to the video. This was President Trump taking everyone back to the 50s and mocking women. That is not what we need. We need a more evolved sense of masculinity that celebrates great athletic performance. By the way, eight medals from the women. The goal, the overtime goal. In my opinion, one of the great moments in sports history of the women's hockey team. They threaded the needle perfectly. Because I do think the men got more shit than they deserved.
- [61:57]
Kara Swisher
They got invaded by Cash Patel. Let's blame Cash Patel.
- [61:59]
Scott Galloway
That's exactly right. But what are they gonna do?
- [62:02]
Kara Swisher
What are they gonna do? I agree.
- [62:04]
Scott Galloway
Anyways. And if you listen to the tape, when Trump made those wildly sexist remarks, there were one or two men's hockey players saying 2 for 2. They were trying to acknowledge that both the men's and the women's team and SNL did it perfectly.
- [62:19]
Kara Swisher
They did.
- [62:20]
Scott Galloway
They didn't Virtue Signal and say, yeah, women and, oh, that bookstore.
- [62:24]
Kara Swisher
They made some jokes. They had the women make the jokes. And the men were there.
- [62:27]
Scott Galloway
And the men were there to take it.
- [62:28]
Kara Swisher
Take it.
- [62:28]
Scott Galloway
And they were fine with it. They thread the needle perfectly.
- [62:32]
Kara Swisher
And it was critical that Connor's story was standing in between them. I have to say, he's such a likable person and such a talented physical comedian. Like, his story who got in a car accident was so fucking funny. Like, I. I don't believe they pulled that one off. I have. I have to say, he is such a delightful.
- [62:50]
Scott Galloway
He's very talented.
- [62:51]
Kara Swisher
He's a delightful figure. Both of them are.
- [62:53]
Scott Galloway
And I'm telling you, season two, like, scorching hot rivalry with the women's hockey team. Daddy's here for it.
- [63:00]
Kara Swisher
Yes. Yes. And I thought the women handled it well.
- [63:03]
Scott Galloway
So well done. The writers at SNL are geniuses.
- [63:06]
Kara Swisher
And you know who's sucks? Cash fucking Patel. Why are you invading these guys? Win like as if. And reflected fucking glory. You, you tubby loser. Like, forget it. Like, how dare you that now I'm focused only on Keshe Patel. I really am. I think he's just the worst. So my fail is, I think this situation with Anthropic. I think it has to be. We are not.
- [63:30]
Scott Galloway
We're not the same person today. We're literally the same person.
- [63:32]
Kara Swisher
Okay, all right. I think they are both. I think they use Twitter as a way to attack people in a way that's really unprofessional. You can have differences, and everyone's already always grabbing for power and grabbing for money. I get it. It's gone on since the beginning of time. But the way you're doing this is all about your insecure childhood traumas that are being writ large on the rest of us. This is not professional. You do not have to do this. And they do it as keyboard warriors on Twitter. I got A text from someone, I'm not gonna say who it was who said, you got the world is happening on Twitter. You gotta be back here. And I was like, I'm not going back to that Nazi porn bar that enjoys making children sexual. I was like, the world is not happening on Twitter. The world is happening in the world. You guys, like, you need to fucking get out of your own fucking way. You have to understand that what you're doing is damaging to most people and that we don't want to hear about all your beefs and all your traumas and everything else else. If Anthropic doesn't want to do business with you, just let's move along. Let's just move along. And I'm sorry you're not as successful as Dario Amodi or Smart Emile Michael, but you're going to have to live with it as being an unctuous toady to the powerful. Stop it. That, to me, is the loss. You go ahead.
- [64:55]
Scott Galloway
Mine's exactly the same. But I'll look at it through a shareholder lens. I'm looking at a company called Mercado Libre, which is the Amazon of Argentina. And one of the reasons I'm looking at at it is that effectively when the BRICs were in vogue, the price earnings multiple of certain Latin American markets was about 20 and it went down to 8 because all the flows went into US tech stocks, which meant you could increase your earnings two and a half fold over 10 years and your stock was flat. You can't outrun multiple contraction in a market as a stock all under the same auspices. And market dynamics trump individual performance at the same time. It's almost impossible to be wrong wrong when you have multiple expansion. It has been American investors. You know, we all think we're geniuses right now in our 401ks, we have had multiple expansion since 2008 and we're about to experience multiple contraction. And we're already experiencing it. We were 21 out of 23 markets last year on a dollar adjusted basis. Everyone else outperformed us. And one of the reasons people don't realize we have just lost trillions of dollars when the Pentagon starts picking winners and losers. If Ondero, which makes West Weapons, decides that, yeah, we are going to figure out we're going to use Silicon Valley ethos to help the Defense Department kill people and people freak out, well, guess what? They're allowed to do that. It's not illegal. They're allowed to do that. When Palantir says we're going to work with the government of Israel to track down terrorists and kill them in their homes that you may find that distasteful. It's legal. They're allowed to do it. And anthropic, when they decide we don't want to provide our services or data for what we feel is the surveilling, the illegal surveillance of US citizens citizens, they too are allowed to do that. And when governments start playing political favorites in markets, the rule of law is no longer applied. And your multiple on companies, your price earnings multiple begins to contract freedoms and systemic laws and a separation between government and business results in higher price earnings multiples and Greater increases in 401s and your ability to receive retire earlier. And this bullshit Pentagon stationary war on anthropic is going to cost US investors trillions of dollars as people decide to go where they know who they're waking up next to that they can invest in a company and they do the assessment based on the laws at hand, is this company succeeding or failing based on the current laws and they don't have to try and guess what the one off individual laws will be in a few months. So I have the same win and same fail. But I look at it as an investor. I'm now looking at markets. People get angry at autocracies in China or in the Gulf. They have a huge respect for the domain or the sovereignty of investors and having uniform laws that apply to everyone equally. And we are now becoming that nation where we decide which companies win and lose. And all that means is is rpe. We're about to experience multiple contraction which you cannot outrun.
- [68:00]
Kara Swisher
Not for long. Let me just say. You feel it. Can't you feel it? And speaking of feeling it, Scott, this has been a great discussion. I have to say I was a little worried this morning. I was also tired. But this has been a really great discussion about these things and disagreeing in a really civil way. But let me say it's gonna continue because we're going. Where are we going? Scott Galloway on Sunday.
- [68:19]
Scott Galloway
Is this an unsubscribe big announcement? Full time resources. And by the way, Sam, it's not gonna be a good night for you.
- [68:27]
Kara Swisher
No, it's not gonna be a good night.
- [68:28]
Scott Galloway
And guess what, Sam, we're talking about 48 hours. You put Kara Swisher on an invite in 48 hours. We sold out the Pantages at thousand seats.
- [68:37]
Kara Swisher
Both of us. We sold it out. And we wanna thank Tane Danger for doing an amazing job for us in Minneapolis.
- [68:42]
Scott Galloway
He's my favorite porn star.
- [68:43]
Kara Swisher
He's your favorite porn star and he's an amazing job. Taine Danger and our staff who's working really hard, we sold out right away. We are coming to Minneapolis. We have special guests. We are very excited and we will talk about the next move. Scott Will Scott, who's the president of Resistant Unsubscribe. I'm just a helper. We want to hear from you. Send us your questions about business, tech or whatever's on your mind. Go to nymag.com pivot submit a question for the show or call 85551 pivot. Okay, that's the show. Thanks for listening to Pivot and be sure to like and subscribe to our YouTube channel. We'll be back on Friday.
- [69:16]
Scott Galloway
Today's show was produced by Lara Naiman, Zoe Marcus, Taylor Griffin and Kate Gallagher. Earning intert this episode. Jim Mackle edited the video. Thanks also to Dubrows, Mia Saverio and Dan Shalon Nishakorez, Vox Media's Executive Producer podcast. Make sure to follow Pivot on your favorite podcast platform. Thank you for listening to Pivot from New York Magazine and Vox Media. You can subscribe to the magazine@nymag.com pod we'll be back later this week for another breakdown of all things tech and business. Kara have a great rest of the week.