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- [00:01]
Scott Galloway
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- [01:41]
Kara Swisher
This is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Kara Swisher.
- [01:45]
Scott Galloway
And I'm Scott Galloway.
- [01:47]
Kara Swisher
Scott, we've got a lot to get to today, including the Trump Elon breakup getting uglier. Plus another breakup making headlines. Warner Brothers discovery is splitting up. First, let's talk about what's happening on the ground in California. Governor Gavin Newsom says California will sue the Trump administration, challenging the president's recent order to federalize National Guard forces amid protests in Los Angeles over immigration raids. Newsom already asked the White House to rescind its deployment of 2,000 National Guard troops to LA, accusing Trump of manufacturing chaos and violence. Trump made the order over the weekend, invoking a rarely used federal law. Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth created more of a problem. He also got in the mix by suggesting active duty Marines could be sent. Newsom called these comments deranged behavior. I would tend to agree. We're gonna be talking to someone about what's happening. Who is on the ground there right now. Let's start with that is a New York Times reporter, Livia Albeck Rybka. Livia, welcome. Thanks for coming on. I know you're busy. We're recording this on Monday morning. You've been on the ground in LA reporting over the last few days. How are things looking right now?
- [02:55]
Livia Albeck Rybka
Well, yesterday when we left downtown Los Angeles, the police and other authorities appeared to have largely dispersed the crowds. I haven't been out yet this morning, so I can't say what's happening right now on the ground. But it. But yesterday was a chaotic day.
- [03:12]
Kara Swisher
So talk about by chaos now. President Trump described Los Angeles as invaded and occupied by illegal aliens and criminals. That's a quote. And said, quote, violent and insurrectious mobs are swarming. Now, I know a lot of people in Los Angeles. They. That's poppycock to me. I've gotten dozens and dozens of people who live there. I am not there. But does that align with what you're seeing? What are people getting right and wrong about what's happening?
- [03:36]
Livia Albeck Rybka
I can't really speak to what people are getting wrong about the protests, but I can tell you what I saw with my own eyes yesterday on the ground. I arrived at the detention center in downtown Los Angeles. It was fairly quiet. Then one person with a sign showed up. One person holding a Mexican flag arrived and that slowly a crowd began to grow. There was one protester calling the other, imploring the other protesters to remain peaceful. And then at one point, tear gas and projectiles were fired into the crowd. I did not see what instigated that. I too, was trying to protect myself. So I can't speak to exactly what happened in that moment. But then after that, as the day wore on, the crowd grew and grew. There was another protest happening up at City Hall. That protest kind of converged with the one that was going on at the detention center. So at that point, there were thousands of people. The protesters eventually went down onto the highway. 101 took over the highway for some time. Traffic was stopped and there were a lot of people there. So eventually the authorities dispersed the crowd. And that's what I saw at the.
- [04:56]
Scott Galloway
End of the night.
- [04:57]
Livia Albeck Rybka
By the time we had gone home.
- [04:58]
Kara Swisher
Yesterday, from what you can tell, what do the protesters, when you Speak to them. Want. What are they looking to do?
- [05:05]
Livia Albeck Rybka
Several people I spoke to yesterday said that they had been watching events unfold on tv, on the news, on social media over the last several days and that they had reached a personal breaking point where they felt they could no longer sit at home. One man I spoke to, his mother had immigrated from Columbia, and he's a physics professor who lives an hour and a half away. And he said, you know what? I've got to get on the train. I'm going to Los Angeles today. And that was the story of several people who I spoke to that they just felt that this was the only way they could have their voice heard and take a stand against what's going on.
- [05:47]
Kara Swisher
So people like a physics professor, just regular people who are not criminals.
- [05:51]
Livia Albeck Rybka
A mom and her teenage son, who, although she had safety concerns in bringing him to the protest, also felt that it was really important that her son understand the power of individuals and community when they come together. So that was her story. There are other people who aren't personally affected by this, but also are coming out in great numbers to protest the deportations and to protest the actions of the current administration.
- [06:21]
Scott Galloway
What's your sense for sort of the vibe right now? Do you get the sense that temperature's going up or going down?
- [06:27]
Livia Albeck Rybka
I think it's hard to say with protests when you're there in the moment, and it is intense and chaotic. It's unclear what is going to unfold the next day. And that's why we do our jobs.
- [06:39]
Kara Swisher
All right, great. Livia, thank you so much.
- [06:43]
Scott Galloway
Thank you.
- [06:43]
Livia Albeck Rybka
Livia, thank you so much, too.
- [06:45]
Kara Swisher
So obviously, Livia is a reporter, so she can't characterize what's going on. But I think it's a shit show that Trump is creating on purpose, as many people do, and that he's creating tension in order to pick a fight. Essentially, this is what he's trying to do so they can and creating immigration actions that are things that would cause a vote and would cause people to protest and then trying to egg them on into worse activities. So let's talk a little bit more about that. I've called this complete overreach by a desperate despot. Your thoughts?
- [07:17]
Scott Galloway
Well, I've been called hysterical for a while now comparing or drawing similarities between America right now and 30s Germany. And you don't have to be Hitler to borrow methods and worst practices from his playbook. And that is when tanks roll through cities, it doesn't feel like strength. It feels like a funeral for civil society. Germany's in the. Germany in the 30s didn't collapse overnight. It slid into tyranny by normalizing soldiers where citizens used to stand. You know, early Nazi propaganda decided, and we're doing the same thing. We have real problems overseas. You know, there are still Russian, you know, Russia is still invading Europe. There's real significant issues around China, Pakistan and India could have, could eventually digress to a nuclear conflict. Iran is trying to spin up reactors. But if you look at. And again, I think I just. This has so many echoes at 30s Germany. Early Nazi propaganda emphasized that Germany's problems were due to entire eternal saboteurs. Communists, Jews, immigrants. And that today, if you look at this rhetoric, they're blaming immigrants, academics, protesters, journalists. It mirrors kind of the same playbook here. And when you have a government who turns its military force inward against journalists, migrants or citizens who believe in exercising the right to protest in a civil, peaceful manner and justice, you're not defending democracy. You're rehearsing for something much darker. So it's not the protests themselves. It's not what's going. This is another step towards normalizing an attempt to rebrand militarization as patriotism.
- [09:11]
Kara Swisher
Right. So do you think it's working just for people to know? Historian Ruth Ben Ghiat wrote on threads, fascists want to provoke violence so they can justify crackdowns and get some good footage. Distort the state propaganda outlets for state propaganda outlets like Fox News, et cetera. And the media is ill prepared to push back in saying this is what it is. They're on. Like we just talked. That reporter, she can't say much, right? But it's obviously, you bring troops in and you create all kinds of people. There's rubberneckers that people that show up. If you recall what happened around the church near the White House when people were protesting, Trump created chaos in order to say it was chaotic, which is sort of like fascism. 101, essentially. How do you assess how California is dealing with this? Obviously, Gavin Newsom has suddenly found his backbone and is pushing back. He said, come on and arrest me. Because they were making threats to arrest Tom Homan, who is literally, it looks like the drunkle is running the show over there. But he said, arrest me then, but stand down. This obviously has to go to the Supreme Court in some fashion, which is problematic in and of itself. But when, when they, when the, when the state governors are asking them not to do this and have it under control or say they have it under control, how do you, how do you assess what's going on with California itself.
- [10:37]
Scott Galloway
I actually think this is. I think this. Governor Newsom comes out of this a winner, most likely, because I think what it's doing is it's sort of setting up the next presidential election between Trump's appointed J.D. vance and Governor Newsom. And I think so far, Governor Newsom has tried to stay forcefully yet dignified. I thought he was smart to say, you know, he's not trying to whip people into a frenzy or he's trying to dial down, and he's basically taking on Tom Holman and saying, arrest me. I think he's handling this. He's handling this quite well. So I don't, you know, it's, it feels like, literally, Kara, the analogy I would use, I was trying to think of analogy. It feels like you're trying to fix a smoke alarm with a flamethrower. And they're just looking for a reason. They're trying to provoke someone into shooting someone in uniform such that they can have an overreaction. And in 1992, I came home from graduate school and I found armed National Guard on my corner. I lived in this very peaceful neighborhood in Westwood, and on the corners, there were two what looked like boys, high school boys in fatigues with, you know, M15s or assault rifles. And that, that doesn't feel like safety. It feels like a breakdown in society. It makes you lose faith in your government and it forces you to choose a side. And it's just very, it's just very strange. And then just more broadly, when I think about the role that the presidents or past presidents have played, and when I think about the role of someone who's powerful and really well respected, the most, the biggest compliment you can ever receive is someone who asks you to play peacemaker and to de escalate a situation. Right? That's when you know you've made it in business, is when people, you know, I'm patting myself on the back, but a lot of times I serve as a buffer or someone to mediate disputes between a board and its CEO. And I'm really, I'm really. That feels really good. That makes me feel important, and it makes me feel like I finally have some business maturity. When typically, the president, United States, is deployed all over the world to help bring warring parties back from the brink of war and to settle things and de escalate. And so when you have a president who appears to be just manufacturing and escalating, what could ultimately be. I mean, I want to be clear, I'm a bit of a Catastrophist here. I think this is one piece of the chessboard to what is a civil war. And that is when you have a government cosplaying authoritarianism that seems to have missed the last or the first half of the last century. And what happened in, in, in Europe, I mean, this is how, this is how it ends. I don't think America ends with a bang. I think it ends with a, a thump and some, I imagine, the next, a next move. All right. Newsom says, we're sick of sending $80 billion to the federal government that you can deploy to red states that then you use to demonize us so we're not paying our federal taxes. Or Texas say Governor Newsom is elected president. Texas says, we're not certifying the election. We don't honor your federal elections. And then before you know it, California becomes a tech economy doing trade with Asia. Texas in the south become an oil and gas economy. The east coast becomes a financial services economy doing business with Europe. The Midwest, a manufacturing economy with strong relationships with Canada. They maybe developed their own currencies. Governor Newsom tried to weaponize volunteers to create his own army. This is what they did in the Weimar government. And before you know it, we're like the European Union, but a disunion of states. So I think this is another step to America breaking up.
- [14:27]
Kara Swisher
That's the plot of Hunger Games, but go ahead.
- [14:29]
Scott Galloway
Oh, really? I, I, I literally didn't, I didn't. Yeah.
- [14:32]
Kara Swisher
I was like, huh, Wait a minute. Who's Jennifer Lawrence? That's me.
- [14:35]
Scott Galloway
It's funny. I don't, I, I never saw the full series of Hunger Games, although I'm a big Donald Sutherland fan. I'm not a huge Jennifer Lawrence fan. But anyways, that's the, that's what that they break into districts. That's the, that's the story of hunger.
- [14:49]
Kara Swisher
Well, they break into districts and then the districts try, then the center tries to hold them. And it's a, it's a version of it.
- [14:54]
Scott Galloway
My point is people think that the end of America would be some huge civil war. I think it could happen much more quietly than that.
- [15:01]
Kara Swisher
Huh. Interesting.
- [15:02]
Scott Galloway
And that is, this is what's being set up. There's going to be a number of states, I believe, who are going to economically sequester and, or refuse to honor the next results of the presidential election. I think that is what is being set up here.
- [15:15]
Kara Swisher
I have a different thought. I think all these people are going to jail eventually.
- [15:19]
Scott Galloway
When you say all these people, who.
- [15:20]
Kara Swisher
The people that are creating this fake war. The fake war people, you know, wag the dog. They're trying to wag the dog. So Pullman and Holman, I think they're going to be on an investigation the rest of their lives.
- [15:32]
Scott Galloway
But he'll get a full pardon for the. I'm not saying I disagree with you, but let's play this out. All these. These people will get full pardons at the end of the Trump tenure. But you think that that could be pierced?
- [15:43]
Kara Swisher
I think it can be pierced. I think there'll be a tr. I think the further they go, the issue is they're so incompetent. They're so obviously incompetent in a lot of ways. You don't have to be competent, by the way, to create chaos and create destruction. They're quite good at that, too. But someone like Kristi Noem, Tom Homan, Marco Rubio has been dragged into here and has ruined his reputation forever, I suspect. I think they're all in a world of trouble the minute Donald Trump is out of the picture and that you can't. People. I don't think citizens put up with this. I don't. I don't. I absolutely do not. I think I'm seeing more people getting more activated in good ways than ever before. And so, you know, it doesn't take much to crack down on people, but this is a big country and it's very hard to control. And the more they try to control, the more they try to do this kind of nonsense, the more people see through it. Absolutely. Oddly enough, a lot of my relatives who are Trump people are like, this is fucked up. And it's not. The leftists, they're saying are fucked up, which is usually their way to go. It's more, he's crazy. This is nuts. This is ridiculous. So we'll see if other people buy into this. But I do think he exhausts his base and regular people begin to take back control of this. You know, it's just. He can try. He can try. That's what he's doing. He's trying. Desperate. He's a desperate. That's why I called him the complete overreach of a desperate despot. Every move he's making lately, to me, is both despotic, incompetent, and also insecure in a lot of ways.
- [17:19]
Scott Galloway
But what you just outlined is my vision of how you would restore and heal America, that you'd have moral clarity and have effectively. Like a Nuremberg trial where you said, okay, you knew this was a lie. You Purposely tried to create violence and mayhem. You purposely tried to overrun our elections. You purposely committed fraud. You purposely leveraged our international sway to enrich your children. I love the idea of a stream of perp walks and moral clarity around this stuff. That America's laws have a long memory. I love that. That's a fantasy of mine. I dream of that at night. My fear, Kara, is that there's actually a lot of people who like what's going on right now.
- [17:58]
Kara Swisher
I would push back. Hitler was real popular until he wasn't. Wasn't he real popular?
- [18:03]
Scott Galloway
Oh, he was popular up until the end, Kara.
- [18:05]
Kara Swisher
That's right. That's correct. And he still is in a lot of ways, oddly enough.
- [18:08]
Scott Galloway
Yeah. But he was never tried. He killed himself because he knew the Red army was circling.
- [18:13]
Kara Swisher
Of course. I'm a long view person. I think there's gonna be a lot of damage in the interim. I think your scenario is perfectly possible. Absolutely. No question. But in my scenario, every single person who's behaved like Trump ends up badly. I would say badly. Whether it's Mussolini, Saddam Hussein, Gaddafi, the Ceausescus, it just always ends with the same story, which is the people around these people.
- [18:43]
Scott Galloway
Well, all these people were executed or killed.
- [18:45]
Kara Swisher
Well, I know, that's what I mean. I think our country's slightly different. I think we let Nixon go off to. We tend to be more forgiving in that regard, but it's the same vers. It's a metaphorical version of that. And we'll see. I think he's. Look, he's an old man, so we'll see how long he lasts. Right? And this is just as you say, biology is undefeated. I mean, all joking aside, he did the same trip Biden did the other day, if you saw it, the same exact trip that Biden did on the stairs. Going on the stairs. So I was just like, well, you people, you hold on because he's. He's what? Hold on to Trump because he's all you got to these people. That's my feeling. So.
- [19:28]
Scott Galloway
But, but to your point, dude, I like to move to what Democrats should be doing. I don't understand why a Democrat hasn't forcefully. We're so. We're so obsessed with grabbing social virtue and taking the higher road. I don't understand why a Democrat hasn't announced her president and said, and on the order I'm passing a constitution, I'm getting congressional approval to arrest people who have engaged in fraud, to arrest people who have engaged in trading off our country's geopolitical power for personal enrichment. I'm arresting people who have fomented violence while using the military, while knowing that these actions were un American, unconstitutional and not needed. And here is the exact legislation I'm going to propose, and that will pierce any pardon. Why has no one stood up and said, hi, I'm a Democrat, and I have actual fucking testicles? What would they be saying? This would be the mother of all. Lock her up. Can you imagine what they would be threatening?
- [20:31]
Kara Swisher
What's really interesting is that Kamala Harris warned about troops in the streets. So did Hillary Clinton. Everything Hillary Clinton warned about, he did. Exactly. So I'm gonna listen to the women in this case. She also. Kamala Harris talked about this. You can make fun of her all you want, but she had this one hold of what he was, his movement. And she's not the only one who said he would do this, but she was probably the most outspoken. There was a great story in the Atlantic this week by a friend of mine, Mark Leibovitz, about Obama's sort of chill pill kind of attitude. I do not know where this man is. I'm sorry. There is not a strong Democrat yet who has emerged. And it could be someone who announces for president. You're right. That's a great way to do it. But the only person with the gravitas and people are like, why doesn't George Bush Jr. Do it? He doesn't have the same gravitas that President Obama has stand up. And not just when he feels like it, not just when he wants to make some announcement, and then he goes off and plays basketball with celebrities, which is what he's been doing, honestly. But someone like that. I was trying to think, who could do this and create a nationwide problem for Trump. And it is only Obama. It is only Obama who can do it.
- [21:47]
Scott Galloway
I think it could be a new voice. The problem is I. I agree with you. I'd love to see Obama do it. But the office of president. There is a generally accepted principle that former presidents do not get involved in politics and come out swinging.
- [22:01]
Kara Swisher
Not this guy. This guy doesn't deserve that.
- [22:04]
Scott Galloway
I get it. I understand it. I'm not saying I don't disagree with it, that the better opportunity is for someone to emerge with a new vision for America who's a Democrat and just comes right out and says, I think there are crimes that have been committed here. I'm not going to threaten my political opponents with incarceration, but I am going to uphold the Constitution. And my belief is that there have Been several criminal acts committed here. And I'm going to hold this. And I'm going to. And by the way, if some Democrats continue to engage in insider trading, I'm going to hold them accountable. I mean, somebody needs to stand up, up and say, I am running to defend the Constitution. And on day one, I am going to demonstrate and put on full display what the Constitution. Actually. If we don't restore incentives to the downside as well as the upside, then it's kind of game over. And no one's running on it. No one stood up and said, I'm ready. This is what I'm going to do.
- [23:00]
Kara Swisher
I'm not sure who has. You can't name. I can't name someone.
- [23:03]
Scott Galloway
I think it's someone tbd. I think it's probably a Democratic governor who we don't even know yet, because at this time, we know who they are. Well, yeah, but we didn't. Okay. They weren't household names. Clinton and Obama were not. Nobody knew who they were. In this part of the election cycle. This is a huge white space and opportunity for a Democrat.
- [23:20]
Kara Swisher
All right, I see. I see that. I think right now Barack Obama's gotta stand the fuck up and stop. Stop playing basketball and hanging out.
- [23:26]
Scott Galloway
I'd like to see it, but I don't think it's gonna happen.
- [23:28]
Kara Swisher
He's gotta stop.
- [23:29]
Scott Galloway
He did the whole. If this were me, can you imagine if I did that? But I think, quite frankly, he has such a nice life and he's so focused on maintaining his brand equity. I don't think he wants to take the risk. I agree with you. I think he should. I don't think he will.
- [23:42]
Kara Swisher
I don't think he will because I think he's the only one who could. And he should do it. And it's his duties and Americans that is.
- [23:49]
Scott Galloway
What about Bill Clinton? If you're going to pull people.
- [23:52]
Kara Swisher
I think a lot of the exes have a lot of baggage compared to President Obama. I think a lot of them do. I think Bill Clinton, I know it sounds dumb, but he's older and his voice is bad. There's only one who's looking good and in fighting shape is President Obama. George Bush does not have the same. I mean, all of them together, great. But President Obama is the one that needs to stand up. And I got so, like, I pushed that article. And they were like, what about George Bush? Why should he come out? Why should he come out against this? I'm like, Cause they've ruined his legacy. Cause they've like, Cause it's the right thing to do. And he's the only one. Honestly, I can't think of anyone else in public, in public life.
- [24:32]
Scott Galloway
It's a huge white space for someone who wants to be. I mean, I've, I've. And you receive these calls, too. I've received calls from six people who are excited to come on the pod, which is their way of saying, I'm running for president. And what I say to their PR people is like, well, tell them to tell him to start actually running for fucking president then, and come up with actual sober plans and talk about bold solutions, attach real money and numbers to it, talk about what we actually need to do. And also, I mean, they were saying he was President Trump and it was effective. I'm not being indignant. Was infected. He was saying, chanting, lock her up around Hillary Clinton's emails. And we as Democrats are like, no, we've got to take the high road.
- [25:18]
Kara Swisher
Well, that's what I'm saying. Let's stop standing on ceremony. I mean, I don't know. I think Obama get off your tail.
- [25:23]
Scott Galloway
Yeah. But I think it should be. I think it should be a stepstone to this person being elected, I guess.
- [25:28]
Kara Swisher
I think he's the only one.
- [25:29]
Scott Galloway
I think it's a big opportunity for somebody.
- [25:31]
Kara Swisher
We'll see. Okay, Scott, let's go on a quick break. We come back how Trump is threatening Elon. Even though Elon has acquiesced, it looks.
- [25:39]
Livia Albeck Rybka
Like.
- [25:45]
D
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- [28:05]
Scott Galloway
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- [29:08]
Kara Swisher
Scott we're back with the latest fallout from the Elon Trump breakup. Trump says his relationship with Elon Musk is over and threatening serious consequences of Elon Fund's Democratic candidates. Trump is pushing everyone around. Trump has been busy talking to reporters and Working the phones over the last few days, calling Elon disrespectful, a big time drug addict. He's also selling that new Tesla. Apparently there's been talk about a possible truce, of course. Politico reported there was a call with representatives for both men on Friday. I think that was just David Sachs calling Donald Trump up. Elon, for his part, has deleted several of his tweets from last week, including one tying Trump to Jeffrey Epstein. And on Sunday he appeared to be kissing the ring, retweeting posts from Trump and JD Dance about the LA protests. I've been actually unfortunately going on Twitter and watching what he's up to and he seems to be first. He was focused a lot on SpaceX and things like that and now he's sort of retweeting a lot of support for Donald Trump again. So I think he's probably trying to get in there. He doesn't want to. He realizes he's in a deleveraged position and he's decided not to go rogue. People have actually calmed him down. I don't think it's going to last for him. But a lot of people are trying to get Elon to back off and acquiesce and I think a lot of it is because his businesses will be at risk. Tesla Scott recovered a bit at the end of the week, although the company is still facing some pain of Trump spending mill passes. In terms of SpaceX, Elon appears to have changed his mind on decommissioning the Dragon spacecraft. That was so ridiculous. But NASA and the Pentagon Officials are urging SpaceX competitors to quickly develop rockets and spacecraft, according to the Washington Post. And we're just learning now that some Trump officials had some concerns about the Starlink getting installed at the White House earlier this year, which we brought up many times. A lot of Tesla's getting downgraded all over the place and obviously people in MAGA world have to choose sides. Though new polling by YouGov suggests that Republicans are not conflicted with their loyalties. Ask who they would choose between Trump and Musk. Seven in 10 Republicans said Trump, although three. That's interesting. Same thing with J.D. vance who was pushed forward by who got his job through Elon Musk and Peter Thiel. Essentially he's always gonna be loyal to the President. He hopes Elon eventually comes back in the fold. David Sachs, of course, cuz he's an unctuous doty, has been privately encouraging Musk to call the president, try to mend the relationship. Now Steve Bannon on The other hand is making trouble. He's urged Trump to deport Elon and seize control of SpaceX. Bannon also provided details with Elon's Oval Office fight with Treasury Scott Besant to the Washington Post, revealing how the fight got physical. Apparently there was a ramming. Elon rammed his shoulder into Besant's rib cage like a rugby player and Besson hit him back. Musk has called him a liar. And we haven't heard anything from Stephen Miller's wife. Katie recently left Doge in the White House to work for Elon, though Elon had to rebuke his AI chatbot Grok after falsely claimed a tweet where Elon Brad about taking Katie Miller from her husband was real. Grok believes it was and Elon said it wasn't. As I said, Elon called a ban and a liar. So what do you think? How do you look at this?
- [32:16]
Scott Galloway
What do I think? I think if this were any gayer, it'd be a Bravo reality show sponsored by Grindr. I just, I mean, forgot. Can you imagine two bigger bitches than this? I mean, it's just like, God, if I had two 12 year olds behaving this way. Let me get this. And I just love how, okay, Trump or Musk thinks he's illuminating to the world that Trump was guilty of a sex crime on an island and then. And then Trump threatening to deport him.
- [32:50]
Kara Swisher
No, not Trump. Bannon. Bannon suggested it.
- [32:52]
Scott Galloway
Oh, is that. I thought Trump said he was. He had. It had come to his attention that he was. He was here illegally or so he.
- [32:59]
Kara Swisher
Might have said something. I don't know if he said Bannon's the one.
- [33:02]
Scott Galloway
Musk basically puts out a tweet that basically intimates he's fucking Stephen Miller's wife.
- [33:08]
Kara Swisher
Well, he says he didn't. He said it was a false tweet. Let's just keep it.
- [33:11]
Scott Galloway
Oh, yeah, I bet Grok doesn't think it was.
- [33:14]
Kara Swisher
I bet he says Grok is wrong. I'm with Grok on that.
- [33:17]
Scott Galloway
Anyways, look, I don't. Again, this is all just such a. Such a distraction. And to be clear, Trump, Musk has no problem with the bill. He knew what was in the bill. He's part of the architecture here. He's part of this notion that it's exploding. Floating the deficit bothers him as he tries to cut 40 or 50% of the IRS. This is what happened. Or my read, he wanted to get involved in China relations. He wanted.
- [33:45]
Kara Swisher
He wanted to be a co. President.
- [33:46]
Scott Galloway
Yeah. No, he Wanted to be an unelected president. And Trump said no. Scott Bessant said, I'm not letting you pick these people. They got into a fight. He got punched in the face, it looks like. And now he's decided that all of a sudden he doesn't like the tax bill and Trump is hitting back. The problem is it's a huge distraction from more important issues here. Musk has more to lose because the government could he. Trump is not above absolutely weaponizing the government and threatening specific punishment for his companies, whether it's tariffs, taxes, rescinding EV taxes, canceling all contracts with SpaceX. But we've said it was dangerous bringing.
- [34:36]
Kara Swisher
Back the SEC, bringing back. He could do all manner of things.
- [34:39]
Scott Galloway
Or what he's done to other citizens. He's been sending other citizens to concentration camps. And people get triggered when I say the word. The definition of a concentration camp is an incarceration facility that is purposely put outside of your own country such that the people you send there are no longer protected by the laws and norms of their home country. So these are concentration camps. They fit the definition. Are they exterminating people there? No, not that we know of. But these fit the definition of concentration camps. And if you can send people that it ends up have not committed a crime. Right. Why could he theoretically not send you, me or Elon Musk? And that's the problem with all of this, is that we have decided a pillar of our justice system is we err on the side. We have made a decision to give people really wonderful rights. We have erred on the side of occasionally someone who deserves to go to jail doesn't. Rather than accidentally lock up a gay hairdresser who's done nothing wrong in a hellscape in El Salvador, we've decided to err the other way. And this guy has decided to go the other way and err on the side of people who are innocents. Anyways, my point is he can, you know, Musk, to his credit, I mean, you know, Honey Badger don't care. He's under the impression I'm more powerful. And to his credit, he's true. He's right. He did get, you know, you could make a very solid argument that he, in fact did get Trump elected.
- [36:15]
Kara Swisher
So.
- [36:15]
Scott Galloway
But again, I worry, I worry it's again, a distraction from what I think is the bigger issue here, which is.
- [36:21]
Kara Swisher
The grab for power. Absolutely. What's interesting is I'm just looking at Elon's tweets now. He's absolutely backing Trump on this. On the, on what's happening. And he's putting, and he's, at the same time he's putting out there like he just, if Elon Musk hadn't bought Twitter, none of us would know what's going on in LA right now. And so he's just retweeting everything. Anti immigrant, he's back to that. And he goes, if you talk to someone who gets all their information from legacy media, they're living in a different world and they're getting it from your podcast or news from X. We're living in an altar. So his fake reality, he's pretending he's using it to pump X, which is doing rather well because of this, because of his war with Trump. So he's back into the fold. And my only thing is he's going on a bender again, Scott. He'll go on another bender, which is what I think happened with Trump here. But he's not going to get back. Trump is not letting him back in. Apparently he's quite hurt that Elon and he aren't friends anymore. But I don't think Trump will let him in only if he is completely prostrate on the ground to Trump.
- [37:30]
Scott Galloway
All I think Trump wants to do is just get him to neutral. I don't think Trump's going to let him back in. He's like this guy, this guy is dangerous, uncontrollable, very powerful. I think he's just going to want to come to some sort of detente with the guy.
- [37:43]
Kara Swisher
Yeah, that's the smartest thing.
- [37:44]
Scott Galloway
But he's not going to let him near the West Lawn again. I mean, he's not, there's no way. I will say this though. I, I, I think Musk is just such a terrible role model and a weird person. But I would 100%, because I, I have heard indirectly from Elon Musk, I would 100% accept an invitation to do a weekend in Vegas with him. I can't imagine anyone better to roll with in Vegas. 48 hours. I'm in.
- [38:06]
Kara Swisher
You, him and Katie Miller, that'll be, be great.
- [38:08]
Scott Galloway
I also want, I, I'd like to roll with Laura Loomer and if we can dig up the spirit of David Caring, who is caught strangling himself in a Thai hotel. Okay, I'm down. That would be a pretty good weekend. Who would be the fifth? Maybe George Michael. I think he liked.
- [38:23]
Kara Swisher
Well, did he, I mean, did he? Right, yeah.
- [38:26]
Scott Galloway
I'm not abusive like that, though. Anyways, let's think about it.
- [38:31]
Kara Swisher
He's he'd be a lot of fun anyway. One thing, though. Doge has collected two wins from the Supreme Court. First, the court granted an emergency filed by the Trump administration to allow members of the Doge to access Social Security Administration data. Second, SCOTUS ruled that Doge doesn't have to turn over internal records to a government watchdog group for now. Now, the three liberal members dissented from both rulings. I think Doge is over. I think they're leaving. There's people that are gonna stay embedded and different cabinet members will do what they want and use the Doge people there. But they've cut the head off of this thing and the Doge fighters. Whenever he call himself the Doge father, it's ridiculous. This cosplaying is so stupid. It was interesting. My favorite part was Bill Gates reportedly visit the White House on Friday to argue for reversing Doge cuts. Just moving on in there and all those different tech people will do whatever they're. In Bill Gates's case, he's trying to reverse USAID things. So good for Bill for going. Good job Bill, is what I say go right in there and do of it. Showing how he was the original Doge father, really Godfather in a lot of ways. But I think pretty much Doge is over and the cabinet members will do whatever they want. But Russell Vogt still remains in charge and trying to push through the idea of dismantling government. And that certainly isn't going to stop Doge.
- [39:55]
Scott Galloway
I think it's. Yeah, you're right. It's over. It's really curious what the state, state of the tax bill is. I'd love to be in those Senate hearings right now around if this thing has any, you know, any chance of getting through or if this is all posturing from Rand Paul and the few Republican senators who claim, claim to care. And if you, if you upload, get this, if you upload the tax bill into ChatGPT and ask it to summarize it, it says it's an authoritarianism wrapped in bureaucratic language. It doesn't even talk about the taxes end of it. It talks about things like essentially they no longer can be. These senior officials can no longer be found in contempt of court. It transfers massive. So if any, if they get congressional subpoenas to come testify on an alleged crime, they can ignore them. It massively transfers power from agencies where it's full time, full time government officials to a massive transfer of power from them to appointed officials.
- [40:56]
Kara Swisher
Trump. It moves everything to the executive.
- [40:59]
Scott Galloway
Yeah, it moves everything upward towards appointees and the executive. It's really, it's so funny that ChatGPT focused on the authoritarianism as opposed to the economics of this tax bill. And it also said what was interesting, one of the points it came back with was this is a really elegant, legally deft piece of legislation.
- [41:17]
Kara Swisher
Russell Vote. Russell Vote is the one you need not focus on Elon, that fucking clown. Russell Vote is the one that's trying to dismantle and give power to the executive. That's the whole goal here. I think they'll regret it when Democrats come into power if they give these powers.
- [41:31]
Scott Galloway
Well, it's fair. That's a really interesting point.
- [41:34]
Kara Swisher
And again, love to.
- [41:36]
Scott Galloway
Again, I would love to see. I would love to see. Senator, soon to be governor Bennett basically put out a. They're so. There's so many things a Democrat could be doing right now.
- [41:47]
Kara Swisher
I want your friend Bennett to get up there, start talking.
- [41:49]
Scott Galloway
Yeah, I'm a huge fan of the senators. You know, actually, based on that, I'm, I'm, I'm going to reach out to him this afternoon. But why wouldn't someone who's interested in running for president put out a list of executive orders they're going to do on day one?
- [42:01]
Kara Swisher
Yeah, yeah.
- [42:02]
Scott Galloway
These are the executive orders I have planned.
- [42:05]
Kara Swisher
Yeah, right. Anyway, all right, let's go on a quick break and when we come back, Warner Brothers Discovery is splitting in two at as we said it would.
- [42:17]
D
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- [43:34]
Scott Galloway
This semi season Consider the most talked about series of the year.
- [43:38]
Kara Swisher
What are you doing?
- [43:39]
Scott Galloway
The Guardian hails Netflix's Adolescence is the closest thing to TV perfection in decades. I haven't done anything, the Hollywood Reporter exclaims. Newcomer Owen Cooper is spectacular. Stephen Graham has never been better. The Playlist ads Aaron Doherty's performance is pure magic.
- [43:54]
Kara Swisher
You need to see Sit down.
- [43:56]
D
Do not tell me when to sit down.
- [43:58]
Scott Galloway
Rolling Stone declares Adolescence is soul shaking television. For your Emmy consideration, Outstanding Limited Series in business they say you can have better, cheaper or faster. But you only get to pick two. What if you could have all three at the same time? That's exactly what some of the world's.
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Kara Swisher
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Scott Galloway
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Kara Swisher
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Scott Galloway
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Kara Swisher
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Scott Galloway
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- [45:18]
Kara Swisher
Scott we're back. Warner Brothers discovery will split into two public companies. Streaming and studios will be one company, including movie Properties and HBO Max, and the other company will be the Global Networks company, including cnn, TNT Sports and Discovery. CEO David Zaslav will lead Streaming and Studios, and the company's current cfo, Gunnar, I think his name is, will become the CEO of Global Networks Business. The split is expected to be complete by the middle of next. Shares of Warner Brothers Discovery are up over 7% at the time of the taping, although they've been really down. Scott we discussed that possibility last month and you got this Partly right. But this is something we've talked about for a while, that this was going to a la Versant, which is the Comcast runoff. And we both have talked about this extensively. But let's listen to what we just said recently.
- [46:05]
Scott Galloway
I think I know what's going to happen here. The company's going to go good bank, bad bank. It's going to be hbo, Warner Brothers, the theater business, the characters, the IP which will feed into hbo. HBO is the brand. It'll have another component, a sub, a subset, HBO Max or something. That's all the other shit. And then they will spin all the TV and the cable assets into. They'll either consolidate or be part of a consolidated. A consolidation with Comcast. And that is, they're just, these are still highly profitable businesses, but they're shrinking. So that means consolidation and cost cutting.
- [46:38]
Kara Swisher
Right. Which is exactly, it's almost exactly what happened at Comcast here, which is about to almost be completed, I think, and therefore possibly a merger, acquisition or the opposite. They merge in some way. The company has not yet announced. That will split Warner Brothers Discovery's huge debt. 37 billion. Although it's cheap debt, but it's still debt nonetheless. But it will take out a $17 billion short term loan ahead of the split to bring down that. How should they divvy up the. I mean, again, a bunch of small little boat, little media boats. I was on a panel with Anderson Cooper over the weekend after they showed Good Night and Good L. And Anderson was asking me, you know, are there going to be this big thing? I'm like, no, everything's getting split up. And like that's these, you can't have these big entities anymore that are, that are spending enormous amounts of money and don't make any sense anymore from an audience point of view. So how do you look at this and how should they divvy up the debt? I think that's probably the most important thing here.
- [47:36]
Scott Galloway
Well, this was absolutely the smart thing to do because the market, the market wants a consistent story. And the story around legacy cable assets are that they're still hugely profitable, but they're declining businesses. And really the business strategy, and it can be a very effective strategy for creating shareholder value, is to go acquire other struggling cable assets and cut costs faster than the business declines. So these things usually don't decline as quickly as people think?
- [48:04]
Kara Swisher
No, it's like AOL dial up.
- [48:06]
Scott Galloway
That's right. Or so if the business is declining 6 to 8% a year, as long as you can go roll it up with Comedy Central and name your team Bravo or whatever it is. As long as you can consolidate the back end and cut costs faster than 8% a year, that is accretive to the bottom line, and that's a decent trading stock. And then you have the other thing that requires capital to grow because HBO and Warner are still technically growth assets. So you have to have a consistent story. And these stories don't work. So it makes sense, the argument they're having right now, and I knew this before it happened, David Zaslav gets the cool shift. He gets to be on the cool side. He gets Warner Brothers and HBO and the cfo, who is always the bad.
- [48:53]
Kara Swisher
Cop, who actually is considered a very good executive. But go ahead.
- [48:56]
Scott Galloway
I'm sure his job is to consolidate and cut costs and go on an M and A.
- [49:00]
Kara Swisher
He's very good at cost cutting. That's what he's known for.
- [49:02]
Scott Galloway
And to call Brian Roberts and say, all right, how do we put these two things together? And the argument they're having right now, and consultants are in there and they're all posturing is how much debt is. Is, is the bad bank gonna have to take with them? Because they're the more profitable one in the short term. But they're all looking at, I think, I think they have a total of about 33 billion in debt. And they're all saying, okay, who. Who has to take mom, right? Who has to. It's a divorce and we're taking care of our parents and their real liability. Who gets. Our dad's a real liability living upstairs. Who has, who has to take dad debt, Right? It's like in the fight between Musk and Trump, who gets custody of JD Vance? Who has to take them? Right?
- [49:44]
Kara Swisher
So who does?
- [49:46]
Scott Galloway
Well, they'll come to some accommodation. It won't be. It won't. One won't get all, all the debt. They'll split it. But it's just the question of what the split is.
- [49:54]
Kara Swisher
Why should the money making one take it at all?
- [49:56]
Scott Galloway
Because they have the ability to service the debt.
- [49:58]
Kara Swisher
Right? Okay.
- [49:59]
Scott Galloway
And what they want to do is make sure they don't. These companies still have. I mean, their existing shareholders are going to get shares in both. And also if you saddle, if you saddle the bad bank, the cable TV news company, let's call it the cable division, with too much debt, it creates a poison pill where no one can acquire it or merge with it. So they're doing a delicate dance here to try and as you. So this reverse engineers, it's all Very incestuous. David Zaslav was the highest paid CEO in media or old media. He made $53 million, 52%, I believe, of shareholders said, we don't approve your compensation. While the stock has gone down 66% because his compensation was tied to paying down debt. And he has done that. He and the CFO have paid down the debt, I think from like 50 or $55 billion.
- [50:50]
Kara Swisher
Also well paid, by the way, Gunnar.
- [50:51]
Scott Galloway
But they've got to figure out a way to figure out who's going to take who and how much of this $33 billion in debt. But this is a smart move. We knew this was coming. There's going to be massive consolidation.
- [51:00]
Kara Swisher
Let's talk about what's next. So Versant's coming out. That'll be its own thing. And they'll split off from NBC. It's exactly the. So what happens? Does the people buying Paramount pick up one of these things? Does ABC pick it up, which has its own troubles with Terry Moran doing that stupid post that he did about Stephen Miller. 100% accurate. But he's a beat reporter. He never should have done that. What do you see? Where does it go next? Because we all knew this was coming. So it's not like, you know, it's interesting. I have said this publicly several times over at cnn and they're all the anchor, all the different people there are like, do you think they're gonna split? I'm like, yeah, like that's what they're doing right now. They're figuring out how to do it, you know. But where does it go next, I think is really, I assume they merge with. Either they merge with Aversant kind of thing, or they get bought by a. By a rich guy like David Ellison and that gang over there or a hedge fund. Right? I mean, where does it go?
- [52:05]
Scott Galloway
So the ecosystem is getting. It's getting late very early. And that is. These are declining assets. And every deal they've struck, the deals get worse as time goes on. And I don't know if it's legal, but if it is, I would imagine the Roberts family, the people who control Comcast, are basically advising on how to structure the Warner deal such that they can almost immediately merge with the bad bank of the Warner assets and start consolidating the back end. There's no reason why CBS and CNN can't share a lot of the same. The CBS newsroom can't be mostly the CNN newsroom and vice versa.
- [52:41]
Kara Swisher
Does that create the same thing they're in now with mixing Paramount with them, is it just richer people? Because it's the same. It just puts. Instead of Warner Brothers, it's Paramount.
- [52:51]
Scott Galloway
Well, no, what I'm suggesting is just that we don't need all these newsrooms. Newsrooms are really expensive. You might have different front facing brands with different distinct audiences and advertiser relationships. But you'll say, okay, CBS Newsroom and CNN Newsroom, they're each a thousand people. Combined they're going to be 1200 people. And we're going to rebrand it and we have our front end anchors, we have, I don't know, I forget it's Gail Keen, cbs. I forget. And Anderson Cooper over here. But a lot of the back end and the office space and the studios and the benefits and the HR manager and the CFOs and the tech people and the, you know, it's all going to be. They've got to massively consolidate the back end.
- [53:27]
Kara Swisher
But why would Paramount grab it?
- [53:29]
Scott Galloway
Because again, I don't know if it would be Paramount. I was just using that example. Paramount.
- [53:33]
Kara Swisher
So Mer, NBC with cnn.
- [53:35]
Scott Galloway
I think the most, the mo. The cleanest one right now, the most obvious is Comcast's assets and Warner. But because Paramount, Jesus Christ, she is being backed into a corner. There is a non zero probability right now the National Amusements Slash Paramount declares bankruptcy in the next 12 months.
- [53:55]
Kara Swisher
Well, it's owned by, it's going to be owned by a wealthy group of people. It's out the awesome.
- [54:00]
Scott Galloway
But then, I mean. Yeah, but here's the thing, Kara. The FTC will not approve this until Trump gets his pound of flesh from his ridiculous 60 Minutes lawsuit, of which Sheri is under huge pressure not to bend a knee. If she doesn't bend a knee, the FTC will not approve this transaction. And she has somewhere between, based on what I've read, somewhere between a quarter of a billion and half a billion dollars in debts coming due from loans from David Ellison's father and money she owes investment banks. And if she can't pay that debt, they can bump her into a restructuring, at which point all the suitors go, you're weak. We're not paying you this, we're paying you less. So she's in a really weird spot right now.
- [54:49]
Kara Swisher
She's got some health problems too, and.
- [54:51]
Scott Galloway
She has, and she's battling thyroid cancer. So this ecosystem, this is going to be a very interesting 12 or 24 months.
- [55:00]
Kara Swisher
Yeah, it'll be interesting where it all ends up. What's your likeliest? I would assume maybe the Warner Brothers assets and the Comcast assets get brought together. Right.
- [55:08]
Scott Galloway
That's 100%.
- [55:09]
Kara Swisher
So it's CNN, NBC.
- [55:11]
Scott Galloway
And that's what I was saying. Brian Roberts and his team, and they're very smart, is probably in conversations, if it's legal. I'm trying to think if they're allowed to do that, if it's to say this is what the combined company would look like and how we make this as seamless as possible. Post the spin.
- [55:32]
Kara Swisher
It would make sense for those guys, the Versant Group, they'd be stronger, they'd have more options. They could cut costs better. They'd have the MSNBC more obviously, like Fox News. I'm not calling them Fox News.
- [55:47]
Scott Galloway
But why do MSNBC and CNN need independent newsrooms? I mean, this is heresy.
- [55:53]
Kara Swisher
Actually, the NBC newsroom is going with the other. With the other gang.
- [55:57]
Scott Galloway
Yeah.
- [55:58]
Kara Swisher
So the newsroom itself is actually the actual news gatherers.
- [56:01]
Scott Galloway
But what you said, I don't think it's going to happen that it might be a hedge fund. Because here's the thing, the numbers, even at these discounted numbers, they still don't make financial sense. And what's telling is that the three people surrounding the Paramount sale, obviously Sherry Redstone, Edgar Bronfman was in there for a while and then David Ellison. What do all three of these people have in common?
- [56:22]
Kara Swisher
Rich kids, as you notice. Rich kids.
- [56:23]
Scott Galloway
They're rich kids because guess what? Anyone who didn't make their own, anyone who made their own money and understands how to make money and understands how to read, who took accounting and makes money, doesn't spend daddy's money, isn't getting fucking near these things because these guys, David Zaslav and David Ellison, are willing to overpay with other people's money so they can go to the Academy Awards. And hedge funds aren't allowed to do that. I mean, a friend of mine co founded Anchorage and his co founder bought Lionsgate. And I remember saying there's cheaper ways to go to the Academy Awards and he ended up getting bailed out by Amazon and actually making money. But these are. There's no accident that the players here are all rich kids.
- [57:04]
Kara Swisher
Yeah, it's interesting. We'll see what happens. But I'm sure there'll definitely be a consolidation here. A very obvious consolidation. It's a question of which way it happens. And the thing is, they get outsized attention given how small they are compared to other businesses. I keep saying that. I'm like, you know, you're little, you're little. You're not who you used to be. By the way. That was a really fun thing for them. Showing off. Good night and good luck on the network. I thought that was just a lovely thing to do. All right, one more quick break. We'll be back for wins and fails. Support for this show comes from Pure Leaf iced tea. You know that point in the afternoon.
- [57:45]
Livia Albeck Rybka
When you just hit a wall? You don't have time for self care.
- [57:49]
Kara Swisher
Rituals or getting some fresh air. So maybe you grab a beverage to bring you back, but somehow it doesn't do the trick or it leaves you feeling even worse. What you need is a quality break, a tea break. And you can do that with pure leaf iced tea. Real brewed tea made in a variety.
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Livia Albeck Rybka
Of bold and refreshing flavors with just the right amount of naturally occurring caffeine.
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Kara Swisher
With a pure leaf iced tea in hand, you'll be left feeling refreshed and revitalized with a new motivation to take on what's next.
- [58:20]
Livia Albeck Rybka
The next time you need to hit.
- [58:21]
Kara Swisher
The reset button, grab a pure leaf iced tea. Time for a tea break. Time for a pure leaf.
- [58:30]
Scott Galloway
This week on the Gray Area, conservative economist Oren Cass walks me through the new thinking on the American American Right Would you.
- [58:38]
Kara Swisher
Rather get married and have kids or.
- [58:40]
Scott Galloway
Spend more money on vacations in Greece? It is actually appropriate and necessary for the good society to say no, one of these things is better than the other and more important and should be valued more highly. So what would you pick? Vacations or kids? Do you really have to choose? And should America's economic policy help push you in one direction over the other? That's this week on the Gray Area. New episode every Monday. Available everywhere. A few weeks ago, Google dropped VO3 generative AI video. But now with generative AI sound to go with it. This is video from VO3. What do you think about the idea that we're just a bunch of prompts?
- [59:18]
Kara Swisher
If I'm generated from a prompt, how.
- [59:20]
Scott Galloway
Come I don't have six fingers? So is this about to do? The first plunge into an active volcano? Let's send it. And this breaking news. The Secretary of Defense, Pete Hegseth has died after drinking an entire liter of vodka on a dare by rfk. But how are the reviews? A slop monger's dream, says the Verge. It might actually take my job, says YouTuber Matthew Berman. The world is not ready, says Mashable. We're so cooked, says thousands of people on social media. But are we? Maybe not. That's our take at Today Explained.
- [60:10]
Kara Swisher
Okay, Scott, let's hear Some wins and fails. I guess I'll go first. There were a lot of options for me. For the win, D.C. public Schools will enforce a cell phone ban starting next year. My kids are in D.C. public schools. I'm very happy about that. Also, the to were amazing, were amazing, were really fun. I love Cynthia Erivo. She provided a really good show. And even though that's a small business too, in a lot of ways, I thought they did it was really fun and entertaining, which is what they should be. And minimum of lecturing, it was just really good performances, especially bringing back the Hamilton group together to sing. It was super fun. But I think my win of the week is seeing you in a satin boxing robe, Scott. I have to say, first of all, I sent it to Alex. He's like, Scott's in good shape for a man of his age, essentially. That looked really fun. You looked adorable. What a cute thing. But your shirt off was the best part. With the drag queens. I loved this Scott Calloway, who's yelling at Piers Morgan, who's wearing a box. I like this guy. I like what I've made here. This man that I've affected in some way. But tell me, explain to me how that went.
- [61:18]
Scott Galloway
Very briefly, a good friend of mine, Pablo Doritos, does this thing called Defiant, a rumble where two people pretend to be boxers. They answer questions, they each answer them, and then the crowd decides who wins the round. At the end of the bout, you get a belt on based on who wins. So the last one was Anthony Scaramucci versus Kevin o' Leary. And this one was me and a really impressive young man named Shermichael Singleton, who I just thought was lovely. And I hope that, I hope there's more conservatives like him. Yeah, I mean, let's be honest, I'm in Detroit, I go up against a 34 year old black Republican. The odds were he was going to.
- [61:52]
Kara Swisher
Win, but he didn't. You won?
- [61:56]
Scott Galloway
Yeah. Well, you know. Daddy, Daddy, how did you win?
- [61:58]
Kara Swisher
You had the belt. Are you going to wear that?
- [62:02]
Scott Galloway
But it was a ton of fun. I really enjoyed it. And the thing I'm so excited about is like I said to Pablo, I said, okay, but I get to announce my entrance. You know when boxers come out.
- [62:11]
Kara Swisher
Yeah, yeah, of course.
- [62:12]
Scott Galloway
And S.H. michaels was really good. He did a drum line from an all black, I think college or high school in Detroit. It was really cool. And I went through no small effort.
- [62:22]
Kara Swisher
He was wearing a suit. It looked like he looked like he.
- [62:25]
Scott Galloway
Was wearing a suit.
- [62:25]
Kara Swisher
Yeah. What a mistake.
- [62:27]
Scott Galloway
I Found five.
- [62:28]
Kara Swisher
He's a handsome man, by the way.
- [62:30]
Scott Galloway
He is a handsome man. He's a good looking kid. And I found five drag queens and that was the best part of it.
- [62:36]
Kara Swisher
That's why you won. That is entirely why you won. Well, you worked out extra like. I gotta say, you look, I've seen you somewhat naked. You look like you're in much better shape. You did some work there to get to that. Oh yeah.
- [62:49]
Scott Galloway
Working out four times a week for four years. Must be the testosterone anyways. Testosterone. Excuse me.
- [62:53]
Kara Swisher
The drag queens were.
- [62:56]
Scott Galloway
That was the best. But that was a lot of fun. Thanks for the kind words. I really enjoyed. Good.
- [62:59]
Kara Swisher
And you won.
- [63:00]
Scott Galloway
I did win. Yes, I did win.
- [63:01]
Kara Swisher
That to me it should have been a fail. But Scott, it was a win.
- [63:04]
Scott Galloway
I appreciate that.
- [63:05]
Kara Swisher
And my fail. Well, obviously Trump's ridiculous behavior, but I'm gonna do a tech one. Bill Atkinson, who was Apple computer designer and created software that enabled the visual approach of ELISA and Macintosh computers, died of pancreatic cancer. Here's an unsung hero of Apple. There's several of them, including people who are living like Susan Kerr. But Bill Atkinson was a critical, critical. The way we compute today is because of inventions from people like him. And what a really important inventor, lovely guy and just one of these people. You don't, you know, you hear about some of them like Jony I've and others. But Bill Atkinson was just a really critical person to the development, early development of computer design and everything. Just as I said, a lovely person and sadly had pancreatic cancer. But that was my fail. But people should look him up, read about him. He's an important figure and you will have never heard of him, but he was critically important. What about you, Scott, besides your nudity drag queen thing?
- [64:07]
Scott Galloway
My win is just to call balls and strikes. There is one component of the GOP tax bill that I do like and that is they've threatened to raise taxes is on endowments. So they're talking about increasing the tax on the profits of endowments from a little over 1% to upwards of 21%, which would be obviously a substantial increase in taxes, almost like what regular people pay in taxes.
- [64:31]
Kara Swisher
Aimed at Harvard, I assume.
- [64:33]
Scott Galloway
Well, let's be honest, it's a war on education for the wrong reasons. But that doesn't mean it can't have positive outcomes. And that is, I've been saying this for a while and the bill to say, unless they spend more than 5% of their endowments, they need to stop hoarding wealth and I believe American universities largely set the tone for big components of America and this rejectionist bullshit culture where we're hoarding money instead of spending it on financial aid or expanding the size of freshman classes such that these institutions can sit on endowments the size of the Costa Rican GDP. Meanwhile, they decide to only let in 500 people. That means you're no longer a public servant. You're. You're in a.
- [65:10]
Kara Swisher
So they should. You want them to spend that money so they don't get taxed.
- [65:13]
Scott Galloway
Well, they. And in. And. And because of the threat in this bill of these taxes on their endowments, going from one and a half percent to potentially 23, proposing a solution where they would spend at least 5% each year of their endowments on things like financial aid, new facilities, the local economy, or expanding freshman seats. And that is exactly what they should be doing. There is no reason, these elite universities. I mean, I've said this before, if higher education were pharmaceutical. It's a pill that makes you less likely to be obese, more likely to get married, more likely to stay married, more likely to be civically involved, less likely to kill yourself, less likely to be obese. And that pill is called higher ed. So why would we hoard that pill and make it so expensive when we have the ability to distribute that pill to vastly more of the American public? So I'm hoping that one benefit, even if this bill doesn't go through, which I hope it doesn't, is universities are responding and saying, okay, we get it. We should probably, if we have $6 million per student, maybe we should spend money on financial aid and maybe letting in a few more students. That we have to stop this culture of hoarding amongst the most fortunate and blessed. So that's my win. I think so.
- [66:32]
Kara Swisher
Wrong reasons, but the right thing.
- [66:33]
Scott Galloway
That's right. I think an outcome of this might be the universities realize once you get above a certain point, your job is to spend the money and add value, not to hoard wealth. And I think that's a lesson for Americans. I decided seven years ago I was going to spend everything above a certain amount or give it away. Hoarding wealth is really a virus in America, and it affects people and it affects institutions. Anyway, my fail is so Harvey Milk. Many people, some people might not know him. I know you know him, but essentially Harvey Milk, who was a US Supervisor, one of the first openly gay people to be elected in San Francisco, to be elected anywhere first. One of the first openly gay officials to be elected. He was also. Most people don't know this. He was in. He served during the Korean War on a submarine rescue ship. And later as a diving instructor. And his military review records used the word outstanding. And he was promoted to officer. And then in 1955, his superiors learned that he was gay. And they gave him a choice. They said either resign and forfeit your military benefits with something called other than honor. And so he had to give up his military benefits or faith court marshal. So he resigned. And then he went on to be. What's the term?
- [67:51]
Kara Swisher
Supervisor. And he was in my district in even between that.
- [67:54]
Scott Galloway
I forget what the term is. Anyways, he was one of the. He became supervisor. He was supervisor. And he was murdered alongside the Mayor Moscone by a fellow supervisor. 20. I think it was 2017. They said he served honorably. Maybe a way of compensating and also a way of recognizing and giving a nod to what is probably 5%. If you, if not more of our nation's armed services consists of gay people. Given that somewhere between 5 and 8% of the US population identifies as gay. They played such a huge role. Wouldn't it be nice to give this guy his overdue recognition and name a ship? And they named this basically this oil tanker. That's not an especially important ship. The USNS Harvey Milk. Secretary Hegseth, in the first week of Pride Week commands issues an order to rename the ship. And saying that this is in line with restoring what they call a warrior mentality, a warrior culture. It is just such an affront to the gay community. It is so deeply bigoted. It is so unnecessary, it is so cruel. It is just so fucking weird and even distinct of the moral argument. What does that say to gay people who want to be in the armed services? And folks, just so you know, the straight people showing up are the straight men and the gay men. I imagine 2/3 of them or 70% of them can't get through the initial screening because they either are obese or mentally unfit. So you want to take an additional 5% of the population and say you're not welcome here. And distinct to the moral argument. I can pretty much prove to anyone that gay people are no better or no worse than defending our shores and killing bad people. And so you're making us less safe. When you decide to inhibit the pool of people to defend our country, you are making us less safe. So this not only like weird and straight up bigoted against a guy who served his country honorably and was unjustifiably discharged, right? A small nod to him A small nod to the gay community. Oh, no, we can't let that stand. And it makes us weaker. It makes us. What is the message we're sending to good young gay men and women who want to serve their country? I know you experienced a little bit of this.
- [70:11]
Kara Swisher
I wanted to be in the military, Scott. And I was. Because I didn't want to lie. I didn't want to lie.
- [70:15]
Scott Galloway
And you refused to go along with don't ask, don't tell.
- [70:17]
Kara Swisher
Yeah.
- [70:18]
Scott Galloway
That makes us weaker.
- [70:20]
Kara Swisher
Yeah. My dad was in the Navy. My dad was in the Navy.
- [70:23]
Scott Galloway
When we shrink the pool of potentially great, great human capital, it makes us weaker. So my fail is this bigot, weak and weird renaming of the USNs. Harvey Milk. This was a really important man that gave people a lot of comfort, made it probably a lot easier for people to represent their community in a transparent way in leadership positions. And there's something just very. And by the way, I didn't like it when Civil War general statues were torn down. I think it's part of history. If the community decides they want to tear it down, fine. But I thought we got way too fucking woke and started tearing down.
- [71:04]
Kara Swisher
Yeah, they're woke in a whole different way.
- [71:06]
Scott Galloway
There were people in London who wanted to tear down statues of Churchill.
- [71:12]
Kara Swisher
They call it when it's the right doing this. Is it woke or is it just drunk? In the case of Pete Hexagon.
- [71:17]
Scott Galloway
Well, this is just straight up bigotry. This is just straight up homophobia and bigotry. But all of these things make us less strong.
- [71:26]
Kara Swisher
It does, it does. Thank you, Scott. Harvey Milk was a great leader in San Francisco and was killed by and murdered doing his job in City hall.
- [71:35]
Scott Galloway
Which, by the way, gave rise to Dianne Feinstein, a supervisor who became mayor. Dianne Feinstein, who went on to be a very important senator and just a great.
- [71:44]
Kara Swisher
To this day. There's a place near my house, like, just a block from my house, where they have the original. He had a photography store in the Castro, and you can go visit it. There's a plaque to him and. And where he did his business. He was a business person, too, by the way. In this very successful business person. He had a photography store. Anyway. Thank you, Scott. God, Scott. What is happening? What is happening? We're switching roles here. It's really interesting. I'll start telling penis jokes and everything else.
- [72:12]
Scott Galloway
I'm moving to San Francisco.
- [72:13]
Kara Swisher
You are? You're gonna move to my house anyway. We wanna hear from you. Send us your questions about business, tech or whatever's. On your mind. Go to nymag.com pivot to submit a question for the show or call 855-51-PIVOT. A reminder, we have another call or email us and let us know what you'd like to ask us. And make it spicy. We like spicy. Elsewhere in the Kara and Scott universe, this week on on with Kara Swisher, I spoke to NPR CEO Catherine Marr. Let's listen to a clip of her discussing NPR's lawsuit against the Trump administration.
- [72:45]
Scott Galloway
My concern is that this makes us feel as though we are in some way in an adversarial posture to the administration, which is not the end.
- [72:54]
Kara Swisher
Well, that's what a lawsuit is, right?
- [72:56]
Scott Galloway
Well, it is, but it's an adversarial posture in response to an adversarial action. And that adversarial action is one that we believe to be unconstitutional. So, I mean, if anything, I would say it's our patriotic responsibility to defend the First Amendment as a media organization.
- [73:13]
Kara Swisher
She was really impressive. She's from tech. She ran Wikimedia. She's terrific. And really, it's a great interview. Okay, that's the show. Thanks for listening to Fibbit and be sure to like and subscribe to our YouTube channel. We'll be back on Friday. Scott, read us out.
- [73:28]
Scott Galloway
Today's show was produced by Lara Naiman Zoe Marcus Taylor Griffin and Kevin Oliver. Ernie intertode in this episode. Thanks also to Drew Burrows, Ms. Silverio and Dan Shalon. Nishak Kurwa is Fox Media's executive producer of podcasts. Make sure to follow Pivot on your favorite podcast platform. Thanks for listening to Pivot from New York magazine, Vox Media. You can subscribe to the magazine@nymag.com pod we'll be back later this week for another break down of all things tech and business. This isn't law and order. It's fascism foreplay. You don't need troops in the streets. You need leaders with spines and policies that don't read like rejected plot lines from the man in the High castle. What's going on here has nothing to do with patriotism, has everything to do with authoritarianism.