Mamdani's Victory, Iran Nuclear Damage Dispute, and Fed Chair Succession

Summary

Podcast Summary: Pivot – "Mamdani's Victory, Iran Nuclear Damage Dispute, and Fed Chair Succession"

Release Date: June 27, 2025

In this episode of Pivot, Kara Swisher and NYU Professor Scott Galloway delve into three pivotal topics shaping the current landscape of tech, politics, and global affairs: the surprising victory of Zoran Mamdani in New York City's Democratic mayoral primary, the ongoing dispute over the damage to Iran's nuclear program following recent strikes, and President Donald Trump's maneuvering to replace Federal Reserve Chair Jerome Powell ahead of schedule. The discussion is rich with sharp insights, lively debates, and forward-looking predictions.

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1. Zoran Mamdani's Historic Mayoral Victory

Timestamp: 24:45

New York City witnesses a seismic political shift as Zoran Mamdani, a 33-year-old Democratic socialist state assemblyman from Queens, secures a decisive win in the Democratic primary for mayor. His opponent, former Governor Andrew Cuomo, conceded swiftly, marking what many describe as "the biggest upset in modern New York City history."

Key Points:

• Campaign Focus: Mamdani centered his campaign on New York's affordability crisis, proposing initiatives like free buses and a $30 minimum wage. Additionally, he advocated for higher taxes on millionaires, billionaires, and corporations to address economic disparities.

• Voter Demographics: Young voters, particularly those aged 25 to 34, played a crucial role in Mamdani's victory, accounting for the largest share of early voters. Surprisingly, Mamdani also garnered support from Jewish voters, despite concerns about his past statements regarding Israel.

• Implications for Democrats: Scott Galloway remarks, “This is a political earthquake,” highlighting the broader implications for the Democratic Party. Mamdani's victory signals a shift towards a younger, more populist movement within the party, challenging the established political machinery.

Notable Quotes:

• Zoran Mamdani at Victory Speech [26:07]: “We have won because New Yorkers have stood up for a city they can afford, a city where they can do more than just struggle.”

• Scott Galloway [27:45]: “Bloomberg gave $8 million to Cuomo, Dan Lowe, Bill Ackman. The Democratic political machine was run over by a populist younger movement.”

Analysis: Kara Swisher and Scott Galloway analyze Mamdani's policies, praising his focus on affordability and universal free childcare while critiquing his proposal for city-run grocery stores as impractical. Galloway emphasizes the potential for this victory to inspire similar populist movements, noting, “Younger people are done and they're ready for new faces and they're weaponizing new mediums.”

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2. Iran's Nuclear Program: Claims vs. Reality

Timestamp: 06:33

The podcast shifts focus to President Trump's assertion that the United States has "obliterated" Iran's nuclear program. This bold claim stands in stark contrast to leaked intelligence reports suggesting that the attack only set Iran back by a few months.

Key Points:

• Trump's Claims: President Trump insists that the strike on Iran's nuclear facilities was devastating, showcasing photographic evidence of the aftermath. He emphasizes the blackened area around the strike site as proof of significant damage.

• Skepticism and Criticism: Scott Galloway criticizes Trump’s communication strategy, stating, “It just reeks of weakness. It's like, okay, let's figure out a way.” He argues that attacking the press undermines credibility and shifts focus away from the actual effectiveness of the operation.

• Media and Political Reaction: The New York Times and CNN defend their reporting, with The New York Times pushing back hard against Trump's disparaging remarks about their coverage. Kara highlights that Trump’s agitation towards the media appears to erode public trust.

Notable Quotes:

• Donald Trump [06:36]: “The whole area for 75 yards around the hole where it hit is black with fire.”

• Scott Galloway [12:03]: “It just weakens us.”

Analysis: Galloway suggests that Trump's approach of belittling credible media sources and overstating the success of the strike damages both his credibility and the administration's standing. He advocates for a more measured response from military officials rather than political rhetoric, asserting that “they should have someone up there with broad shoulders, a general...in a very sober way.”

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3. Fed Chair Succession: Trump’s Replacement Plans

Timestamp: 48:02

Amidst economic uncertainties, President Trump is reported to be considering an early replacement for Federal Reserve Chair Jerome Powell, whose term extends another 11 months. The transition typically spans three to four months, but Trump appears eager to expedite the process.

Key Points:

• Potential Candidates: Among the frontrunners are former Fed Governor Kevin Marsh, World Bank President David Malpass, and Treasury Secretary Scott Bechant. The president’s aggressive timeline indicates a desire to reshape the Fed's direction swiftly.

• Scott Galloway’s Perspective: Galloway praises Powell, describing him as “a steady hand” and predicts that Powell will be honored by a future Democratic administration. He criticizes Trump's motives, suggesting that the president aims to “neuter” Powell and enhance gubernatorial influence over the Fed’s decisions.

Notable Quotes:

• Donald Trump [48:19]: “I know within three or four people who all going to pick.”

• Scott Galloway [48:44]: “Chairman Powell will go down as one of the greatest economic professors and economic theory will constantly suffer.”

Analysis: Galloway expresses concern that Trump's interference in the Federal Reserve undermines the institution's independence and could have long-term negative impacts on economic policy. He underscores Powell's competence and foresight, contrasting it with Trump's apparent lack of confidence in established economic structures.

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4. Additional Insights and Legal Battles in Tech

Beyond the primary topics, the hosts briefly touch upon other significant developments:

• Advertising Giants Merger: The Federal Trade Commission (FTC) approves the $13.5 billion merger of Omnicom and Interpublic Group, contingent upon their agreement not to collude on politically motivated ad boycotts. Scott criticizes the FTC's intervention, labeling it as “insane” and questioning the significance of such conglomerate mergers in the modern market.

• AI and Copyright Rulings: Meta and Anthropic secure legal victories against authors over the use of copyrighted material in training AI models. Both cases found that such use was considered fair use and transformative. However, the judges noted the limited scope of these rulings, leaving broader implications uncertain. Scott voices disappointment, emphasizing the need for creators to protect their intellectual property in the face of advancing AI technologies.

Notable Quotes:

• Scott Galloway on Omnicom and Interpublic Group [52:11]: “These are...the reality is...they're a shadow of themselves.”

• Kara Swisher on AI Rulings [54:33]: “It's about advocating for authors and understanding the complexities of copyright in the digital age.”

Analysis: The discussion highlights the ongoing tension between large conglomerates and regulatory bodies, as well as the legal challenges posed by AI advancements. Both hosts advocate for balanced approaches that respect creators' rights while fostering innovation in technology.

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5. Final Predictions and Closing Thoughts

Timestamp: 58:52

In their concluding segment, Scott Galloway offers predictions and reflections on the discussed topics:

• Iran's Nuclear Situation: Galloway expresses uncertainty about the true extent of the damage inflicted on Iran's nuclear program, suggesting that initial reports may lack comprehensive accuracy. He likens the situation to being in "the Truman Show," highlighting the performative aspects of the conflict.

• Fed Chair Transition: Galloway remains skeptical about Trump's motives, predicting that Powell’s legacy will be honored and that future administrations will recognize his contributions.

• Tech Industry Dynamics: He foresees continued consolidation and technological integration within the advertising and tech sectors, albeit with challenges pertaining to regulation and market relevance.

Notable Quotes:

• Scott Galloway [58:56]: “Whatever you think happened, the only thing I'm fairly certain of is what's not happened.”

• Kara Swisher [60:56]: “Do you feel like you're in a Mission Impossible movie where the uranium is on the move and Ethan Hunt has to get it?”

Analysis: The hosts conclude with a blend of caution and optimism, acknowledging the unpredictability of global politics and the relentless pace of technological change. They emphasize the importance of informed discourse and strategic leadership in navigating these complex issues.

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Conclusion

This episode of Pivot offers a comprehensive examination of significant political and technological developments, anchored by the hosts' incisive analysis and candid dialogue. From the transformative political shift in New York City to the contentious international disputes and economic leadership battles, Kara Swisher and Scott Galloway provide listeners with a nuanced understanding of the forces shaping our world.

For those looking to stay informed on the nexus of tech, politics, and business, this episode delivers valuable insights and thought-provoking perspectives.

Transcript

[Kara Swisher]

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[Scott Galloway]

Support for the show comes from Intuit. Reaching the right small business starts with the right data. Intuit SMB Media Labs is a first of its kind small business ad network. With access to audiences and insights from the makers of QuickBooks. You can target key decision makers by industry, size, maturity, location and more. Your gateway to B2B SMB marketing success. Learn more at medialabs.in.

[Kara Swisher]

I don't know, Scott. I'm going to just film it and we're going to have to see. There might be a colonic. That might happen. Hi, everyone, this is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media podcast network. I'm Kara Swisher and I have decamped to Scott's apartment in New York again. Here I am.

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah. By the way, I don't know if you noticed, but I've changed the wireless passcode to please leave soon.

[Kara Swisher]

Not till you move back. And I may still stay with you when you move back.

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah, Kara asked me yesterday where she should put her dirty laundry and I said in her car on the way home. Kara, welcome. You're welcome. Just hands off the edibles, my granola and my creatine chewables. Other than that, everything's.

[Kara Swisher]

I'm gonna use all of them. We're doing some filming here. It's gonna be. I'm not gonna tell us for what. For the secret.

[Scott Galloway]

Oh, great. I'm getting a location fee, I assume.

[Kara Swisher]

Yes, exactly. I'm going to a rave with Louis tonight.

[Scott Galloway]

That has got to be. You just brought the lame factor of that rave way up.

[Kara Swisher]

I'm excited. Dancing with the.

[Scott Galloway]

I'm sure you're excited. I love that you and Louis are going to a rave.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, we're going to a rave. It's a health raise. The longevity rave. We're very excited.

[Scott Galloway]

Okay, so first off, what you're saying is it's not a rave. It's something not that cool that's decided to call itself a rave. Cool?

[Kara Swisher]

No, no. It's by the cool people who do the raves. The health radio.

[Scott Galloway]

What does that mean?

[Kara Swisher]

I don't know, Scott. I'm gonna just film it, and we're.

[Scott Galloway]

Gonna have to see mushrooms and get a colonic. What does that mean?

[Kara Swisher]

No drugs. No drugs. There might be a colonic. That might happen. There's ice baths. I don't know, Scott. I'm trying to live in the moment like you tell me to.

[Scott Galloway]

You're trying to be a good mom.

[Kara Swisher]

Not just that. Louis is excited. He's very excited. He's excited about a lot of things, including the mayoral race here in New York. But we've got a lot to get to today, including what Zoran Mamdani's mayoral primary win means for Democrats. And President Trump wants to replace Fed Chair Jerome Power early. Good luck with that. Also, all kinds of things are going on with Trump. He's real mad at the press for not doing his propaganda. Anyway, we'll also talk about who's in the running for that, but. But other things. So where are you? London. You're in London, right?

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah, I'm in London.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah.

[Scott Galloway]

I have a really nice life. I'm really blessed.

[Kara Swisher]

You do accept. Where are you? Not now. Right now. Where you want to be?

[Scott Galloway]

Where I want to be in Venice.

[Kara Swisher]

You want to be in Venice? You still. What's happening?

[Scott Galloway]

Did you see, like, yet?

[Kara Swisher]

I'm coming in. Oh, it's such a bad look. Even though I like a wedding, I like a big, ridiculous wedding, but I got to tell you, it's like. Oh, come on. Although Kim Kardashian was wearing a. A band across her boobs, which I kind of liked. Kind of stuff.

[Scott Galloway]

I didn't see that. All of a sudden, I'm much more interested.

[Kara Swisher]

Oprah is there already and stuff like that. Yeah, I Wish you went. I wish. I'm so sorry that I prevented you.

[Scott Galloway]

I had. I think I had a shot. I was with some guys. I think if I pushed for it, I could have done it.

[Kara Swisher]

I think one of those guys wrote me and said, I'm one of the guys that's going, oh, really? Yeah, yeah. He's like. I'm like, pictures, quietly. Just send them to us.

[Scott Galloway]

That's all I. No, this is. This is a flex. Those guys, generally speaking, want to be my friend because they think they're going to win me over. And occasionally they'll reach out to a third party and say, oh, I wouldn't mind grabbing drinks with Scott. And I'm like, fuck, no.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, they all go through me. Do you ever notice that everyone wants to meet Scott, but it's so.

[Scott Galloway]

They all think that everyone's dying to, like, have dinner or drinks. I can't imagine a more boring group of people to hang out with. Bezos. Yes. Because he's in his midlife crisis and has, you know, a hot woman who must have just be magnetic in terms of her personality. But the other tech executives that, like, reach out to you and say, I'd like to get a group together to talk about technology, my vision for technology. I'm like, oh, my God.

[Kara Swisher]

They used to do that a lot back in the day. They'd have dinners, and they were always really good restaurants.

[Scott Galloway]

So you were like, manscape with a weed whacker.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, exactly. You know what the good thing about you not going to that wedding is? This is what I imagine happening. You go to the wedding, and Lauren falls in love with you.

[Scott Galloway]

Mm. It could happen. I think it'd be much more interesting if he fell in love with me.

[Kara Swisher]

Oh, yeah. Yeah.

[Scott Galloway]

I think that that's.

[Kara Swisher]

Man him up.

[Scott Galloway]

We take our honeymoon in Capri, and we're spotted rubbing lotion on each other wearing bedrill.

[Kara Swisher]

Oh, my God.

[Scott Galloway]

Why does that make me happy? Why does that make me happy?

[Kara Swisher]

All right, all right. We have to get to things, all right? We have to get to real things. First of all, President Trump is doubling down on his claim that the US Obliterated Iran's nuclear program. That's in spite of leaked intelligence reports saying the strike only set Iran back by a few months. Now, these are early intelligence reports. Let's be fair. And, you know, we definitely just. I don't know why he's not happy with, we did a lot of damage and he did something bold, but he's not. He's railing against the New York Times. He's railing against CNN quite a bit, including its reporter Natasha. I think it's Bertrand. He got testy when an NBC reporter asked about the report during a NATO press conference yesterday. But let's listen.

[Donald Trump]

We're talking about something that took place three days ago.

[Kara Swisher]

I understand that the report was done.

[Donald Trump]

So three days ago. Wait a minute. Yes, they didn't see it. All they can do is take a guess. Now if you take a look at the pictures, if you take a look how it's all black and you know, the fire and brimstone is all underground because it's granite and it's all underground, you don't show it. But even there, with all of that being said, the whole area for 75 yards around the hole where it hit is black with fire.

[Kara Swisher]

Blackened. Blackened. Anyway, then he had a fired up Piguetic says you're drunkle step in to back him up. Let's play that.

[Pete Hegseth]

We've all seen plenty of leakers. And what do leakers do? They have agendas. And what do they do? Do they share the whole information or just the part that they want to introduce? And when they introduce that preliminary, a preliminary report that's deemed to be a low assessment, you know what a low assessment means? Low confidence in the data in that report. And why is there low confidence? Because all of the evidence of what was just bombed by 12 30,000 pound bombs is buried under a mountain, devastated and obliterated. So if you want to make an assessment of what happened at Fordeau, you better get a big shovel and go really deep. Because Iran's nuclear program is obliterated.

[Kara Swisher]

It's not clear if it's obliterated anyway. Heggs has said the FBI is investigating the leak. The CIA director John Ratt Ratcliffe is now claiming there's credible evidence that Iran's nuclear program was severely damaged. Trump is also saying that US Iran talks will happen next week, but doesn't think a formal deal is necessary after the strikes. Today, again, Pete Hegseth, who is just really so unqualified every time he gets up, was saying that we should celebrate pilots. I mean, we do. I go to Top Gun, Pete. I love Top Gun. I love when they hit the spot and I love it. And he also was saying that the press should go along with propaganda because daddy needs it. It's very strange. All they were doing was reporting on things. And before we move on, I want to get your thoughts on this. I need you also to weigh in on this. At the NATO summit, Trump was asked about his Exploit Laden rant about Iran and Israel the other day. And NATO's Secretary General also had some thoughts. This is the Daddy reference. Let's listen.

[Donald Trump]

You know, they fight like hell. You can't stop them. Let them fight for about two, three minutes, then it's easy to stop them.

[Kara Swisher]

And then Daddy has to sometime use strong language.

[Donald Trump]

You have to use strong language. Every once in a while you have to use a certain word.

[Kara Swisher]

So Daddy has to use. Anyway, Scott, I'm going to call you Daddy from now on. Thoughts on all of this, on Pete, on Trump, why he's so insistent about this and sort of losing ground for some reason even though he was successful?

[Scott Galloway]

Well, a giant hole that's on fire. That just. I think that's a pretty decent description of how I imagine my honeymoon with Jeff Bezos. Ooh, that's bad.

[Kara Swisher]

You're thinking of that you can't get out of your head, Daddy. Speaking of Daddy, I just think it'd.

[Scott Galloway]

Be worth the photos. I think that would be. You want to talk about something that would make news seriously? And not only that, it'd be really good for. I wonder if we'd lose IBM as a sponsor.

[Kara Swisher]

We get Amazon, we get Blue Origin.

[Scott Galloway]

Okay, so first off, perception around foreign policy sometimes is more important than actual kinetic power. And the reason we choose a civilian to head the Defense Department is they're supposed to make decisions to allocate resources correctly and ensure that our fighting machine doesn't get become generals who just consistently roam the earth. And there's a reason we usually pick a civilian to be the Secretary of Defense. And in an operation like this, when you're up there saying, no, no, it was great, you lose all fucking credibility. And what they should have is they should have someone up there with broad shoulders, a general, a man or a woman who has actually spent their life demonstrating character and excellence from the most competent organization in history, the US Military, in a very sober way, describing the operation. And then when they say. And then when someone says there's reports that it's not as effective as it could have been to say, well, we don't know, we won't know. Our preliminary reports are the following.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, the general did try to do that. General Cain raising.

[Scott Galloway]

They shoved him out of the way.

[Kara Swisher]

Because they're also, he did not want to be there. He had that look on his face. But go ahead.

[Scott Galloway]

So anxious to say, check out my prosthetic penis. I mean, these guys should be in the background. The President should have announced the attack and then let the pros the people who actually executed this operation and who have a reputation for not lying and exaggerating and Secretary Heg says should be nowhere near a mic around this. This is not his job. They should have generals.

[Kara Swisher]

Is it ruining the thing because it's a successful thing to set them back by months? It's a successful thing to set them back by a year to set them. You know, there's reports the uranium was moved. It would be really nice to know. And trust me, I bet our allies will have a lot of intelligence on this. And that's who the intelligence we're gonna have to rely on is, not ours. Which is astonishing. And of course, they've moved Tulsi Gabbard out of the way because she's saying maybe not like she's caused a lot of problems because she's questioning the intelligence, but to not rely on our own intelligence and to insult it seems. It seems like a waste.

[Scott Galloway]

It just weakens us.

[Kara Swisher]

It also is a waste. Couldn't he just be successful instead of being angry at, like, CNN and the New York Times?

[Scott Galloway]

Look, the victory here is that the President did show leadership.

[Kara Swisher]

Absolutely.

[Scott Galloway]

The President, who has a lot of critics within his own party about foreign interventions, took this action. That demonstrates leadership. It demonstrates strength. We are the only nation in the world that has these sci fi like B2 bombers that we can fly from fucking Missouri to anywhere in the world to drop an ordinance that no one else has. And is it effective? Yeah, it was effective when anyone looked up or we saw photos of these B2 bombers rolling in. In addition, it also demonstrates that we support Israel. It also demonstrates that our memory is long and our reach is far. All of those things are good for America. But to get up there and start exaggerating and with no real credible evidence.

[Kara Swisher]

And then attacking the press for doing its job, which is. And not being a propaganda organization, it.

[Scott Galloway]

Just reeks of weakness. It's like, okay, let's figure out a way. I do think Trump has actually, in many instances, good instincts. And then he goes about it and he decides to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. And that's what they are doing here. If a general had just gotten up there and said, we won't know for a while what the true effectiveness of this was.

[Kara Swisher]

He did. He did. They just stepped all over him. He did. Cain did that. So did, by the way, J.D. vance. Right. Like they were doing the right things at the beginning. Except for Trump. They just don't know what he's gonna do. He started to cursing. He Started making messes. And then because he's so obsessed with the media, and especially media he calls losers is the ones he talks about all the time. It's sort of like the guy who broke up with you who can't stop talking about you. If they're such losers, Donald, stop talking about them. If it doesn't matter, stop talking about him. But it clearly does to him. What's interesting though, to me is. Let me read this. He calls them. He called the New York Times and CNN bad and sick people. And of course CNN is backing the reporter shows the New York Times. But this is something I think I told you. The New York Times is pushing back hard now. And I was told by someone there that that's what they're gonna do now. They're sick of saying we stand by our reporting. This is what they wrote, which I was really. I was very pointed. Trump called this fake. He and his entire national security team subsequently confirmed that the Defense Intelligence Agency did in fact produce a preliminary assessment described in the report by the Times and others. So their statement was fake, not the Times reporting. I think this just. The press has had it with this nonsense. I'm glad, I'm glad they said it that way. I'm glad they.

[Scott Galloway]

I think that what we call more progressive media that spends the money to do fact checking. And I think the Democratic Party need to become the organizations and not fucking around.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah.

[Scott Galloway]

And to say, you know, as is often the case when the, you know, when the data is true, they go to attacking the institution and not the reporting or the data. And this is nothing but additional evidence that in fact our reporting is entirely accurate. I mean, they should just start, I'm down for this. And I think AG is that his name should start hitting back and saying, as is the pattern here, that statement.

[Kara Swisher]

Was not AG was not an AG like thing. Which I'm kind of glad he's finally like, like not just sticking up for.

[Scott Galloway]

His reporters, but INJ in general. Just say history will show that there's a pattern, that the more serious and personal the attacks are, the more accurate the reporting ends up being.

[Kara Swisher]

They did that around the Elon stuff too. Their reporter was allowed to tweet, this is nonsense. Especially when they called her a fat liar and all this other stuff.

[Scott Galloway]

So anyway, yeah, so I don't, you know when Elon Musk went about saying, well, you mean the organization that got a Pulitzer for, you know, describing Russiagate? Yeah, the one that also got 141 other Pulitzer.

[Kara Swisher]

Yes, I know.

[Scott Galloway]

So I Fully embrace this. I am sick of Democrats and progressive media saying we're gonna take the high road. No, fuck that.

[Kara Swisher]

I like a low road myself. We like a low road.

[Scott Galloway]

We're low road.

[Kara Swisher]

We're low roaders. The low road, since you're the marketing expert, from a marketing point of view, what would you do here if you were Trump? Besides, you already outlined it. Be quiet. Let the general get up and say it, and let. Let victory just show itself because people, well, Americans don't support this. Which is interesting. Polling doesn't. But let the results speak for themselves. Right? Correct. That's what you're saying.

[Scott Galloway]

The most impressive people in boards and the most impressive leaders in a corporate sense are very measured and thoughtful and are the first to say, I can't take credit for that, or I don't know. I think, again, was it General Cain?

[Kara Swisher]

General Cain.

[Scott Galloway]

You know, these people deal with life and death and the implementation of lethal force. And so when they're asked questions, they take them very seriously. And they want a reputation for truth because they know that other people are willing to put their own, you know, sons and daughters in harm's way. Based on that, they'll get truth back. And in a situation like this, Secretary Hexess should be nowhere near a microphone. He should be Sophia Koppel at the Oscars and that is chained to her desk at home. I don't know where I got that reference. Anyway.

[Kara Swisher]

Well, he's going to keep him now because he's Mr. Defensive, even if he looks ridiculous. He's making Trump look ridiculous.

[Scott Galloway]

You know who was a great Secretary of Defense? William Cohen. Can you imagine Secretary Cohen ever getting up there and trying to exaggerate the impact of a military attack? He would have his generals doing it. President Trump should have just one. We stand by our allies. Iran attaining nuclear weapon is unacceptable in our eyes. That's it.

[Kara Swisher]

Win.

[Scott Galloway]

That's it.

[Kara Swisher]

Win. Win Trump.

[Scott Galloway]

That's it. You win. And then a bunch of photos. Release a bunch of photos and a bunch of information.

[Kara Swisher]

Blacken, do you realize.

[Scott Galloway]

These B2s took off from fucking Missouri?

[Kara Swisher]

I know.

[Scott Galloway]

And got to Iran.

[Kara Swisher]

Then he was saying their feelings were hurt. The pilot's feelings were hurt by the press. Pilots don't give a fuck.

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah, and they're fine.

[Kara Swisher]

Top Gun. Sorry. My friends, they don't give a fuck. They're fine. They don't really care. Anyway, speaking of this other thing, President Trump is also having some trouble with his big one big, beautiful bill. He says no one goes on vacation until Congress delivers. He's sticking to that July 4th deadline. I don't know why people make deadlines. I don't like deadlines. They always miss them. Senate Majority Leader John Thune says voting is on track for the end of this week, though major parts of the bill are still being rewritten and Republicans are divided over key provisions, most of which surrounds Medicaid. They just arrested some people in wheelchairs today for protesting. Medicaid is one of the biggest sticking points with deficit hawks pushing for deeper cuts. And of course, it's a political nightmare for the Republicans. There's also GOP infighting over the provision that prohibits states from regulating AI during the next 10 years. Medicine Marjorie Taylor Greene brought this up. She's absolutely correct. Although it would be great to have a national bill to not create this much chaos. That said, states should be able to do that. I assume they'll get it passed, but will it be reconciled or. I can't tell from the reporting whether I assume they always end up passing these things. It's just whether it's going to be acceptable because a lot of people are speaking up. I'm talking only about the Republicans against it, and they keep not tapping it down. It seems like I just.

[Scott Galloway]

It's just so disappointing that there's not only it's such a cult now, the Republican Party, and also there's such a lack of leadership in the Democratic Party. You would think in the olden times that Tip o' Neill would call and say, okay, could we potentially wedge off 20 or 30 reasonable Republicans and say, all right, tell you what, we'll help you pass this thing and we'll go even deeper on the cuts. If you match us on revenue increases, on taxes on our most fortunate, and take the deficit down from 3.5 trillion to $1 trillion. I mean, you'd think there'd just be some people in the middle here that would reach across the aisle and say, ah, here's an idea. Why don't we try and make ourselves really unpopular across the extremes on both sides? But that just doesn't happen anymore.

[Kara Swisher]

Why should the Democrats help? Why should the Democrats help?

[Scott Galloway]

Well, because if this passes as is, it not only is a budget buster and impose the greatest transfer of wealth in history, it's also basically a move towards autocracy. There's things in this bill, including, I mean, there's just so much, so many terrible things in this bill. Nobody in the administration can be found in contempt of court, so they can never subpoena them and ask that force them to come testify they're talking about putting up 150 million plus acres of national land for sale. I mean, they're shutting. There's so much ugly shit in this bill.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, there is. So, anyway, I can't see it not passing, but I mean, yeah, I think you're probably. He's losing, I'm telling you, he's losing the step. He's losing a step. I don't think he has a stranglehold that everybody thinks he does. And I think there's a lot of signs of that, including yelling at cnn. Like, what a waste of his time to yell at cnn. You know, I just don't, I don't know. We'll see. We'll see. We're not experts in this, but we'll see. And we, we. The AI thing should absolutely not pass. State should have the. And again, we should have a national bill, but that's, that would be. We don't have a national bill on anything having to do with tech. Okay, let's go on a quick break. We come back how New York's mayoral primary could rewrite the playbook for Democrats.

[Scott Galloway]

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[Kara Swisher]

Scott we're back. It's being called the biggest upset in modern New York City history. I'm not sure about that by one Democratic strategist. Zoran Mamdani, a 33 year old state assemblyman from Queens, is poised to win the city's Democratic primary for mayor. His closest opponent, Andrew Cuomo, conceded Tuesday night pretty quickly. It was a blowout. Mamdani, a Democratic socialist, campaigned on New York's affordability crisis. It was very canny. He's a very canny guy. Proposing free buses and a $30 minimum wage. You must love that. Scott and higher taxes on millionaires and billionaires and corporations. Young voters played a big role in this election with 25 to 34 year olds comprising the Largest share of early voters. Although he won in surprising places, including with Jewish voters. Mamdani now heads towards the general election this November, where he'll face current Mayor Eric Adams and possibly Cuomo again. Although Cuomo looks like is pulled out because a loser doesn't win. Cuomo is too smart to lose again. If the former governor runs as an independent, he's able to. But others, like Bill Ackman, as usual because he's such a crank, thinks there should be a write in candidate. He's losing his mind because he didn't see this coming because he, he's always wrong about everything to do with politics. He's a great investor, but otherwise he's an idiot. Let's listen to some of Mamdani's victory speech from Tuesday night.

[Zoran Mamdani]

We have won because New Yorkers have stood up for a city they can afford, a city where they can do more than just struggle. And it's where the mayor will use their power to reject Donald Trump's fascism, to stop mass ICE agents from deporting our neighbors and to govern our city as a model for the Democratic Party.

[Kara Swisher]

Really interesting candidate. I think even the Republicans, and actually the smartest Republican I know, Bill Stepien, was like, don't try to dismiss them. But MAGA is melting down over the win with Laura Loomer, Marjorie Taylor Greene and others launching xenophobic attacks. They're pretty grotesque. So was Cuomo, by the way, that ad he did. I don't think those work. But talk about this lessons, because this guy could have been really stained by some of his previous tweets and worries about things he had said with Jewish voters. But a lot of Jewish voters voted for him, which is interesting, although I have had many people very upset by it. At the same time, I have to tell you, both my sons were very excited and they zeroed in on the affordability part and about the sensible stuff that he was doing more than anything. And also he's a very attractive guy, he's great at social media, he sounds great, he's handsome, et cetera, et cetera. Scott, I'd love to hear. I didn't talk to you about this at all, so I'd love to hear your take.

[Scott Galloway]

This is a political earthquake and I gotta be honest, and this will piss off a lot of my friends. Hard not to be somewhat inspired by this. And there's a lot of, you know, I personally, I couldn't help but feel a little bit inspired by some of it. I, I love a younger generation of voters pushing back on Money and the establishment. I mean, Bloomberg gave $8 million to Cuomo, Dan Lowe, Bill Ackman. The Democratic political machine was run over by a populist younger movement. This was, and to a certain extent it has echoes of the Trump campaign in terms of tactics focused on affordability and weaponized social media. So while he was on social media, Cuomo was running TV ads. But just to give you a sense for the difference in the campaigns, look at their Instagram followings, look at the platforms they weaponized and how they went about it. We was polling just at 1% four and a half months ago. And just as, just as I think that Trump got Carney and the Australian leader elected, I actually think Netanyahu got this guy elected. I think that so many. I think Israel is so unpopular right now.

[Kara Swisher]

Amongst you talked about this last show, the brand. The brand. It feels brutal. The brand feels brutal.

[Scott Galloway]

There's just a general sense that, that Israel are no longer the good guys, they're the bad guys. And standing up to them. And he tapped into that anger is a very effective strategy right now.

[Kara Swisher]

So can I ask you. He didn't talk a lot about that, which was interesting.

[Scott Galloway]

Well, he tried to run from that.

[Kara Swisher]

Stuff, but he talked about affordability and he talked about the minimum wage. One of the ideas, which I don't know what I think about it. The city run grocery stores. I was like, probably not, but. But great kind of interesting idea. Everything. Even though if I didn't agree with several of his things, I was like, I like the cut of your jib like that. You're actually thinking of kind of some interesting ideas and stuff. So.

[Scott Galloway]

Well, let's talk about some of his policies. So he wanted to talk about housing and he wants to talk about. Okay, so fine, we have a housing problem, right? One idea makes sense. Constructing 200,000 units of housing over 10 years. You would need. You would want to activate and unleash the private sector with tax subsidies and private housing construction. You would want to want to motivate them through tax subsidies such that more housing development got built. You want to do away with NIMBYism and make it easier to build at the same time. Rent freezes do exactly the opposite. They're populist bullshit. Because all you do when you freeze rent is you suppress the desire and the amount of money that goes into new development and new housing. You suppress housing stock and it's just a transfer of wealth from entrance that can't find a place because there's no new housing to the people were Fortunate enough to move into a rent stabilized place 40 years ago. So it doesn't work. Universal free childcare. I think it's a great idea and it shows economic return. And I was happy to pay 13% taxes in New York when I lived there because. And one of the reasons I was happy to do that was because one, it's an amazing city to live in and two, something that made me feel really good about the city is my son was speech delayed. And the state had a state sponsored, funded program to get these really wonderful young, mostly women to come into our home and give my kid occupational therapy. And these things pay off and they make people feel really good about government. Now, quote, unquote C run grocery stores. That's a, Let me think, what's the term? That's a fucking stupid idea. These are.

[Kara Swisher]

I get that, but go ahead, go ahead.

[Scott Galloway]

Well, hold on, but just, I mean, this shit makes no sense. You want the customer service of the DMV with the merchandising of your produce by the irs. Grocery stores, the one, the one business you would not want the government in is grocery because it's a low margin business. It's local bodegas who are very good at what they do. Mostly immigrants. This makes absolutely no sense. Now, taxing the wealthy, before you get.

[Kara Swisher]

To that one, can I just say there's some co ops that work. The idea is to get people who are poor better food. Right. So that's a great idea. That's where I was digging. And there are certain co ops that work really well. There's certain innovative things to do in that area. But I agree on the.

[Scott Galloway]

They're not run by the government.

[Kara Swisher]

No, but there's a way the government can encourage say a food co op or healthier food. But go ahead, go ahead.

[Scott Galloway]

Well, you could do that, but if you want healthier, if you want healthier food outcomes, you should just put more money in the hands of poor people so they can find their own food and find the find and endorse the grocers. Grocery stores operate at like razor thin markets.

[Kara Swisher]

They do.

[Scott Galloway]

The notion that government's gonna figure out how to do this better than anyone else is ridiculous. So minimum wage, free bus, fine. I love $30 an hour minimum wage. I think New York should lead the way on that. I think it's a fantastic idea. You need to see studies around raising taxes on the wealthiest. Because what he's talking about is raising taxes 2% on people making over a certain amount of money. Those people would now have a tax Rate, an effective tax rate, including federal, state, local and this additional tax of about 52%. At some point, raising taxes actually does exactly the opposite. It reduces the tax rolls in terms of. I was quite bothered, quite frankly, by what I feel were some. I won't say anti Semitic, I'll give him the benefit of the doubt, but some anti Israel positioning in his background, that made me uncomfortable. Having said that, what I said to my friends last night in a group chat is I don't really care what a mayor thinks about Israel. I want them to pick up the trash and operate the subway. And I don't think it's. Sure, you want to look at their view on international affairs. And New York punches above its weight class. But at the end of the day, it's an operational role. And I gotta be honest, I love the idea of young people and a new generation of youth. And by the way, this is a form of revolution. This is young people saying, whatever you folks are doing, the establishment isn't working. And we're going, we're picking someone new. And he weaponized newer mediums. He was very good on staying on message and affordability. He's a very attractive candidate. I think who's more freaked out about this is not the GOP but the Democratic establishment, as they should be.

[Kara Swisher]

Let me, before we move on, on his statements, he did go a long way to try to fix that in a lot of ways. And I think one of the things he could do is be a lot like, give him the minute to try to do something that brings people together. Right. Don't assume that what he said as a queen's thing that he might. I think he does understand that he would be the mayor for all of New York. And what to me is interesting is so you have someone like Daniel Lurie in San Francisco who I wouldn't say is conservative, but he's much more centrist. Right? He's not conservative. And this guy, is this one of the things I find exciting. Whatever you think of this is voters are speaking and, you know, the minute, of course this happened, my mom goes, I'm selling my apartment in New York as a socialist. Because that's what's on Fox News. On frigging, like, whatever, whatever. It's so racist over there at Fox News. Can I just tell you? They were like. They were, you know, this Zohan movie. They're like, he's Zohan. I'm like, zohan was an Israeli commando. And by the way, he rocked. Like, are you. You fucking idiots. It's all about rich people trying to manipulate an election and make people of color hate each other. Like, it was like, they just don't even understand their references. But fine. But of course, my mom immediately said, like, I'm gonna sell my part, which she's not doing. And all I said to her is, like, the voters decided what they wanted. Every time Trump wins, you say the voters decided what they wanted. Well, they did. And she's like, oh, that's a good point. The voters wanted this. It's not some young people being stupid. These are the voters. You complain about them voting. They vote the way they want to vote, so respect their vote. Like, whether it's San Francis bringing in Lurie, whether it's. Whoever it is. Like, it doesn't matter. This is their vote and they count. And the Democratic establishment trying to shove Cuomo down our throats. And that's a gross thing to think about. What a repulsive, like, thing they did here. Like, so cynical, so repulsive, and so not listening to voters who matter. Who really matter.

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah, he's gonna run up against some blocks there. So first off, it's not a fait accompli. No, there's. If you look at the numbers, I think there's about 4 million registered voters. He got about 400,000 votes. So he literally got 10% of the registered vote. There is an opportunity for Eric Adams, potentially, if enough people. Yeah, he's got his own issues. This is something. This was a real anomaly, but it's not. The speculation sites are saying it's a 70% chance of winning right now. Now, in the general, but on the whole, look, America has to deal with the fact the following, in my view, young people have had it. Young people have said, okay, I see all of this prosperity. I see all of this obsession with wealth. I feel like every streaming media program, whether it's sirens or Friends and Neighbors and social media, is just wealth porn being rubbed in people's faces all fucking day long where it's impossible to feel like, okay, I'm only making $150,000 a year and living in Brooklyn, and I'm broke. And every day it's just being shoved in my face that I am failing. And it is so goddamn, the rich.

[Kara Swisher]

Guys are at the trough.

[Scott Galloway]

And Meanwhile, Bloomberg's giving $8 million to a candidate who was resigned from office in disgrace. I gotta be honest, a lot of what this guy has said is deeply troubling to me. Having said that, I like a new generation of voters in a populist Way just rolling right fucking over wealthy people who think they can buy incumbency. I thought it was, you know, he is not my candidate. Some of his ideas make no sense and they will not get through the assembly or whoever the governing body is like Cuomo.

[Kara Swisher]

His ideas. He doesn't even live here. Like, it doesn't even live in New York, which is even worse.

[Scott Galloway]

He was not a good candidate. A good candidate. I was supporting. Anyone I support means they're not going to win. I was supporting a guy named Whitney Tilson, who's just a blocking and tackling smart guy and a good man and good on the issues. This guy captured lightning in a bottle. I think young people are saying, we're fed up. I think this guy absolutely weaponized social media and the fact that someone can get this far on ideas, on sheer force of character. He was fucking genius for the rent freeze thing, which, by the way, is a shitty idea. He jumped into the freezing water. You're not going to see Cuomo do that.

[Kara Swisher]

Did you see the halal? The $10 halal?

[Zoran Mamdani]

These are the four bills that are sitting in the City council right now which would give these vendors their own permits and make your Halal more affordable. But Eric Adams hasn't said a single word about them. If you own the permit, then how much would you charge for the plate?

[Kara Swisher]

$7, $8. $8.

[Zoran Mamdani]

Would you rather pay $10 for a plate of halal or $8?

[Scott Galloway]

$8. $8. I think $8.

[Kara Swisher]

The way to go.

[Zoran Mamdani]

If I was the mayor, I'd be working with city council from day one to make halal eight bucks again.

[Kara Swisher]

So how was the taste?

[Zoran Mamdani]

Tastes like 10 bucks, but it should be eight.

[Kara Swisher]

That was fantastic. It was so smart way to talk about affordability. It was like. It was so substantive in the silliest way, but it was hysterically funny and so enjoyable. Two very quick things that I'd love to get your thoughts on, then we gotta move on. But immigrants. There's a story right now, immigrants are driving population growth across America. This guy feels like America. Like, where it's going, I don't care. You can hold on to your white America all you want, but it is not. That is not what's happening in our country. He appealed to a lot more people he appealed to. The numbers are so interesting of who he appealed to, he wouldn't. The winner here. This is the one guy, I have to say, Brad Lander, who, if the Democrats are serious about someone with experience and. Sorry, the New York Times, if you were serious, you Would have backed Brad Lander, right? Yep. Controller.

[Scott Galloway]

Great consolation or whatever you call it. Speech.

[Kara Swisher]

What did he do? I have to tell you, he and they cross referenced each other. He hugged Mamdani. He hugged him. They cross said, vote for each other. Rank each other 1 and 2, depending on what you want. They. And he backed him. He should put Lander in an office. If he becomes in some.

[Scott Galloway]

I'm sure he will.

[Kara Swisher]

He will like deputy mayor, whatever. This guy took a risk. He's Jewish. He's like. I've talked to him. I don't think he like gave him that cover. I thought Brad Lander and then he became exciting cause he got arrested. He's interesting. He made Mamdani more safe for people who are worried. And. And Mandani made Lander more interesting in some weird way. So I love that pair. I love that pairing of the two of them.

[Scott Galloway]

It's an interesting peanut butter and chocolate. But if it's a choice between. I actually like Andrew Cuomo. I met him on Bill Maher. I actually thought he seemed like a competent, decent man to me. I think he would have been a competent, decent mayor. But if the decision was between a candidate backed by the establishment, in my opinion, who looked at the. He looked at the mayor's mansion as rehab for his political reputation, such that in 18 to 24 months he could enter into consensual hallucination with his staff and announce his run for presidency, which is, I think, exactly what he was planning. Or a 33 year old that energizes young people and brings some fresh new ideas. Some of them naive, some of them won't work. I'm cool with the 33 year old. I think this is somewhat. I think this is somewhat inspiring. His. His viewpoint and some of his rhetoric around Israel I find deeply offensive and disturbing. Having said that, I don't really care what Amer thinks about that shit. And a lot of my friends will get angry, but that's not their role. The role is to make sure the subways are moving on. Time. Affordability. I'm all for it. Having said that, I left New York in 2011 because I couldn't afford to live there. I had two kids. I was working my ass off. I was making what I thought was a lot of money money. And I remember saying to my partner, I'm sick of feeling middle class while I make all of this money. And we moved. I don't think anyone has a birthright to live in New York. Having said that, if there are programs to maintain the Diversity and the viscosity and ensure that young people continue to populate these great companies by creating, reducing the nimbyism regulation, unleashing the private sector in terms of new housing development. I'm all for it. And the universal, or, you know, effectively universal Pre K and $30 minimum dollar minimum wage to set a tone to inspire the rest of the nation. Recognizing if you pay people $30 minimum wage, yeah, some places will go out of business, but on the whole, it'll be stimulative for the economy. I'm down for. Is time for these fucking older Democrats to get on an ice floe and give some new people a shot.

[Kara Swisher]

A shot. Let them do their dumb ideas. But they're good ideas. They're fresh, they're perfect.

[Scott Galloway]

Was not on Guy was not perfect for me on a lot of levels, but I gotta be. I gotta be honest.

[Kara Swisher]

He's also a handsome man. You also like a handsome man, don't you?

[Scott Galloway]

Guilty, guilty, guilty.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, they just did a profile of his wife, who's also pretty cool.

[Scott Galloway]

But it's time for a new generation of leaders representing young people who for the first time in our nation's history, aren't doing as well as their parents. It is time for the next. It is time to shift.

[Kara Swisher]

You need to get on an ice Flo sky.

[Scott Galloway]

It is time for the next. It is time for the next generation. So I hope that this guy appoints really talented, thoughtful people, that he takes some of the rhetoric down and that he's more thoughtful about some of his economic plans.

[Kara Swisher]

The GOP is trying to make him the face of the Democrat Party. That shows how fucking old they are. That's the thing. I was like, be careful, my friends.

[Scott Galloway]

Oh, the Democrats should take notes on how this guy ran his own.

[Kara Swisher]

I know, but one of the things, the GOP rushing to do this, it's not working with young people. I can tell you that it's not. They can see with their eyes, right? What in an interesting and attractive candidate, this guy's. If they make him the face of the Democratic Party, they're going to lose everything because they're old, creaky men.

[Scott Galloway]

But just one additional piece of data, and I haven't reconciled what this means, but this was sort of champagne socialism. You realize that Cuomo beat Mandani by 13 points points if they made less than 50 grand. The lower income segment broke very hard for Cuomo, and it was middle and upper income that broke from Amdani. I mean, it's just very. It's very interesting what happened here and how it's going to impact national politics. But the takeaway I get is that it is younger people are done and they're ready for new faces and they're weaponizing new mediums. And I think the best thing this kid could do if he gets sued, the general is immediately publicly listen to and meet with Bloomberg and meet with Jewish leaders and focus on blocking and tackling and everyday things that impact everyday Americans and our everyday New Yorkers shows he can work.

[Kara Swisher]

This is this idea of with Sarah McBride, there's all these very exciting candidates. Imperfect allies, allies. Imperfect allies. That's the way to go.

[Scott Galloway]

I love that term. I use that a lot.

[Kara Swisher]

That's their term. I do. All right, let's go on a quick break. We come back, we'll talk about Trump already considering Fed chair replacements.

[Scott Galloway]

Support for the show comes from Square. Nothing but love for our small businesses out there. Quirky coffee shops, high end boutiques and mom and pop taco trucks make the world go round. For me, it's a bevy of small coffee shops in Marylebone. There's a good chance that your favorite neighborhood spot runs on Square. And if you run a small business, there's an even better chance that you need your sales platform to do more than basic transactions. Enter Square. What started as Little White Card Reader can help any small business do big business. Square provides straightforward point of sales processes for customers and vendors while also offering behind the scenes growth opportunities including customer loyalty programs, finance, management support and coverage for cash flow gaps. Business owners get tools to track sales, stay on top of inventory and give you a better understanding of your customers and customers. Get a quick checkout experience that supports all major credit cards and payment methods, including contactless options including Apple Pay and Google Pay. No matter what business you're in, Square can help you knock out today's to DOS and unlock tomorrow's what ifs. Go to square.com go pivot to learn more. That's S Q-U-A-R-E.com go pivot square. Meet you there there.

[Kara Swisher]

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[Scott Galloway]

Support for the show comes from Intuit QuickBooks. On May 21, Intuit QuickBooks and Mailchimp celebrated small business Hero Day, a program that spotlights small businesses who measure their success not just in profits, but in giving back to their neighborhoods and the winners this year prove the point. And now Small Business Hero Day will expand into a new year long initiative called the Intuit QuickBooks and Mailchimp Small Business Hero program. If you know a small business hero who deserves to be recognized, you can nominate them for a chance at $20,000 and additional resources that can help them make an even bigger impact. QuickBooks and Mailchimp have command committed to awarding three new Small Business Heroes on a quarterly basis. Visit intuit.com pivot to learn more about the winners and to nominate a local hero in your neighborhood for their chance to win a $20,000 grant and resources to boost their business growth. No purchase necessary. 50 USDC 18 and over. She [e-mail] Heroprogram enter by May 15, 2026.

[Kara Swisher]

Scott we're back with more news. Let's go through these quick President Trump reportedly wants to name a Fed chair Jerome Powell's replacement as early as September October. Powell's term runs for another 11 months. A transition period typically lasts just three to four months. Trump's already on it. Listen to a clip of him at the NATO summit responding to a question about interviewing candidates.

[Donald Trump]

I know within three or four people who all going to pick. I mean, he goes out pretty soon, fortunately, because I think he's terrible.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, the year is not too bad, Trump, you can't force him out. The president's reportedly considering several candidates, including former Fed Governor Kevin Marsh and World Bank President David Malpass. Treasury Secretary Scott Besant is reportedly also being pitched by allies very quickly. Why is he doing this?

[Scott Galloway]

Well, he just wants to neuter him and he wants the governors to have a bigger say. But Chairman Powell will go down in one of the greatest economic professors and economic theory will constantly suffer. Cite Jerome Powell as somebody who is a steady hand and the next Democratic president will give him the National Medal of Freedom and it'll be well deserved.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, I agree. There we have it. Well, Trump again, weakness on Trump's behalf. I feel like he can't have everything he wants, so he throws a little hissy. He's doing a lot of hissies lately. Hissies aren't a good look for an old man, by the way. Another one, the FTC has agreed to approve the merger of advertising giants Omnicom and Interpublic Group after the company's agreed not to collude on political politically motivated ad boycotts because, you know, we don't love the First Amendment anymore. While the $13.5 billion merger will still allow the company's clients to choose from whether they want to advertise on certain platforms, which is their right, by the way. It's kind of so stupid that they had to agree to this dumb thing. Speaking of which, liberal advocacy organization Media Matters has sued the ftc, claiming the agency waged a campaign of retribution on behalf of President Trump and Elon Musk. The agency started investigating Media Matters Matters last month over whether it illegally colluded with other groups to boycott advertising on X again. I'm glad they did that. I think, you know, it's really kind of grotesque that they aren't letting advertisers decide where they. Even if they're talking together, who cares? It's the First Amendment. I don't know what else to say about these two cases. You may have some thoughts about Omnicom and Interpublic doing this. They just had to kind of do it just to get a thing approved.

[Scott Galloway]

I assume Omnicom and IPG be tying up. It's literally the. The second lamest wedding of the weekend. I mean, these are. The reality is, and I'm a can and every. They're unimportant companies. Yeah, they Palantir will lose or gain the market cap of these companies in the next soaring. Yeah, they're just not. They're a shadow of themselves. The conglomerate model no longer works. One and a half percent of GDP goes to marketing. And it's all. Every year, more and more of it goes to the guys we talk more about. And these folks. The fact that the FTC wanted to get in the way of this merger was insane. These guys, this is about survival. These guys need to consolidate, cut back office, do some spins, figure it out. It's tactical and not that important. But it's interesting. Publicisi has actually done a better job than Omnicom, IPG or WPP by embracing technology. They have epsilon, they have sapient. They've done actually a pretty good job. And now their market cap is worth more than I think think the other three combined. But this is an industry that we talk about as if it's important and it's not. It employs a decent number of people. The ad industry played a really important role in the advancement of women. It was one of the initial industries to have female CEOs. Shelly Lazarus, the character that Peggy plays in Mad Men, was actually a really important woman. It was one of the industries that figured out and elevated women to their natural ability as opposed to. To let me put this way, the glass ceiling was still there, but it was higher in the communications industry, it's been an important industry for the United States, but these companies need to consolidate just to survive. The idea of. I can't imagine a worse job than being a salesperson for X right now.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, well, speaking of which, what do you think about this idea that the FDCs. This guy who runs the FTC is such a clown. It's just ridiculous. He's. He's like an errand boy for Trump from Daddy Trump.

[Scott Galloway]

Not for Trump, for Musk. Musk's hands is so far up his ass, if he opens his mouth, you can see Elon's palm right now. The notion that you are. The notion that you are. What about that? Black hole on fire.

[Kara Swisher]

Black hole on fire.

[Scott Galloway]

Come visit us at our wedding. If I was on a honeymoon with Jeff Bezos, you would absolutely show up. I have no doubt.

[Kara Swisher]

Okay.

[Scott Galloway]

Anyway, anyways. It's insane.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah.

[Scott Galloway]

You're saying free speech is your ability to say things, but it's not free speech when you decide you don't want to advertise on a platform.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, they're allowed to. I don't care if they have lunch and all decide to do it together. Who cares? You know, here, Linda. Linda Yakarino. Make a better platform. Don't have a shitty platform, Elon. Sell better cars. Sell better cars. Perhaps you will do well otherwise, you know, step off letting advertisers do what they want. And by the way, they're already, as you say, suffering. They should do whatever it takes to do well. Correct? Right.

[Scott Galloway]

Well, okay. So the actual laws. A boycott would only be illegal if the companies involved colluded with each other to obtain lower prices. And that's not what they're doing.

[Kara Swisher]

No, they're just such a shitty platform.

[Scott Galloway]

They're basically saying as a service to their. To their advertisers, this is not a safe place. You need to be careful here. And until they make it more brand safe, you shouldn't advertise here. That is entirely. That is entirely legal.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah. Anyway, one interesting case, though, I have to say I was really struck by both Meta and Anthropic struck legal wins against the book authors this week. The two companies face similar suits. In both cases, federal judge ruled that the training of AI models on copyrighted books was fair use and transformative. However, both judges noted the case were limited in scope. The judge in Meta's case said the plaintiffs, which included Sarah Silverman, quote, made the wrong arguments and failed to prove that copying harmed the market for authors. And then Sam Altman, on my friend Casey Newton and Kevin Roose's podcast Hard Fork pushed back really hard on the New York Times and saying, I like the New York Times, but they're wrong about this. So there's some real aggression here on these legal wins. I'd love to know what you thought about this, too. Copyright is super complex, and I guess one judge said, if you buy the book, you've done enough. If you actually buy the book instead of stealing, feel it.

[Scott Galloway]

I guess I was disappointed and surprised and I thought, okay, we've said for a while this is a moment in time where creators need to really circle the wagons around their IP and at least participate in some of the extraordinary shareholder gains that this industry is garnering by not actually creating content, but crawling content and then using machine to offer it up in interesting ways. And so this, to me, was disappointing and surprising. And I don't understand the mechanics of the legal ruling, but I would have hoped that they would have pushed back and said, I was hoping that there'd just be more respect for ip, because at some point this just reminds me very much of back to the old days when Google figured out a way to crawl data and give the content providers $0.02 by sending them traffic they couldn't monetize, and they got 98 cents on the dollar for curating information in a really interesting way that other people had created. If you look at all of the models here, it's just all moving towards an asset light model where you don't create content, you crawl it, slice it, dice it, serve it. And at some point that's going to be bad for the overall economy when there's just no money in the business of fact checking and content creation. And anyways, I was disappointed to see this ruling. What do you think?

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, I need to learn more about it.

[Scott Galloway]

I don't understand it.

[Kara Swisher]

I don't understand it because. Because if they are able to do this, it's a real problem for authors. There's a great piece if people want to read in the Atlantic this week about AI upending publishing, which I thought was really smart. So I want. I need to. We need to learn more about this because it's an area we should know more about. But yeah, I was surprised by both these rulings, but they're doing little jigs over at Meta, I guess. But it's not over, I'll tell you that. It's not over for OpenAI. It's not over any of them in terms of legal struggles. They'll have a little bit. All right, one more quick break. We'll be back for predictions.

[Scott Galloway]

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[Zoran Mamdani]

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[Kara Swisher]

Okay Scott, let's hear your prediction. What is your prediction?

[Scott Galloway]

I went back and looked through the headlines kind of the few days following 9, 11 or our entry into Iraq or Afghanistan. And other than even the bin Laden raid, where the headlines ended up to be the first 24, 48 and 72 ended up to actually being quite accurate in every other instance. What comes out six or 12 months later is that what came out 24 hours later was just not that accurate. And so my prediction isn't that interesting. It's just that everything we think we know about these attacks in Iran, we don't know know. And also I have never felt a lack of certainty or confidence in the information coming out of our intelligence community and out of the White House because it feels as if their priorities aren't giving the American public the truth, but just signaling macho. And I don't know if we're going to find out that, okay, all of the nuclear material was actually transported out or.

[Kara Swisher]

That's the worrisome thing. That's the one they are, that they, one of the things they're not doing is saying they are sort of trying to punt on that because that's, I think that's what happened. Like if you look at a lot of the headlines, they won't say anything about whether the stuff was moved.

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah, I interviewed this really interesting guy from the Carnegie Endowment, Karim Sajapur, I believe his name is. And it just military intervention in the Middle East. The only thing you know about it is it has just so many unintended consequences and this whole thing feels so today just so performative on behalf, you know, know we attack feels very performative. Iran responds in what feels like a very performative way. So it's, it's kind of a non prediction prediction. And that is whatever you think happened. The only thing I'm fairly certain on that's not what happened. It's just.

[Kara Swisher]

Do you feel like you're in a Mission Impossible movie where the, where the uranium is on the move and Ethan Hunt has to get.

[Scott Galloway]

I feel like I'm in the Truman Show.

[Kara Swisher]

Oh, see, I feel like Ethan Hunt's on the hunt for the uranium that's somewhere in a tiny ball that he just puts in his pocket.

[Scott Galloway]

But think about, think about the situation. It's an 86 year old theocrat who knows he could be killed at any moment in a bunker. They've had to shut down the Internet because they can't communicate with each other. And at the same time we have Netanyahu who is running to stay out of prison. And he's decided the way he does that is to be on a constant war footing, pulverizing and creating what is arguably at this point, unnecessary death and destruction in Gaza. That gets likely played a role in the mayoral election in New York. I mean, the, or the fact that we probably wouldn't have gone into Iran to bomb these nuclear sites had the Ukrainian army not been so successful against defanging Russia, who would have still been in Syria. And he was going to do that.

[Kara Swisher]

In 24 hours, Scott. I mean, 24 hours.

[Scott Galloway]

The game theory here in the scenarios are just so crazy. And what I wonder, I know the military does this. Is there anyone with like a big whiteboard in the Defense Department or Secretary Hexseth that is actually gaming all of this out? Do they actually think through this stuff gaming?

[Kara Swisher]

He couldn't play like war?

[Scott Galloway]

Actually, that wasn't good. I'll do another quick one. I'll repeat the prediction. Reed Hastings going on the board of Anthropic. We are going to have an anthropic Netflix joint venture that will compete with TikTok.

[Kara Swisher]

I like it. I like it. Yeah. I saw some other analysts note that, that TikTok's got to reach down into the YouTube in the TikTok and YouTube categories. They've got to start reaching the growth isn't going to come from their regular business, but they have to really do both YouTube and small stuff. And I thought that was, I was like, oh, Scott said that already. I already knew that. Anyway, good one. All right, we want to hear from you. Send us your questions about business, tech or whatever's on your mind. Go to nymag.com pivot to submit a question for the show or call 85551, pivot elsewhere in the Karen Scott universe this week, this week on Prof. G Conversations, Scott Scott spoke with Ian Bremmer, the president and founder of the Eurasia Group, about Iran, the role President Trump plays and what could come next on the global stage. Let's listen to a clip.

[Scott Galloway]

The backdrop on Trump is he's not gotten his deals done. He's really itching to make something happen. He wants to show that he can win on the international stage. And Iran suddenly was where he was putting a lot of time, a lot of effort, a lot of attention. So that's the background for him. The backdrop of Iran is that they have lost more influence both regionally and globally than pretty much anybody over the last year.

[Kara Swisher]

Interesting. Except for Elon Musk. Okay, that's the show. Thanks for listening to Pivot and be sure to like and subscribe to our YouTube channels. We have a lot of YouTube channels and we cross promote each other on all of them, whether it's the Prof. G1 on with Kara Swisher or Pivot, which is a fantastic channel. We've got lots of stuff in there for you. We'll be back next week. Scott, read us out.

[Scott Galloway]

Today's show was produced by Lara Naiman, Zoe Marcus, Taylor Griffin and Kevin Oliver. Ernie Intratad engineered this episode. Thanks also to Drew Burrows, Neil Silvero, Dan Shalon and Kate Gallagher. Yasha Kurohaz, Vox Media's executive producer of podcast. Make sure to follow Pivot on your favorite podcast platform. Thanks for listening to Pivot from New York Magazine and Vox Media. You can subscribe to the [e-mail] pod we'll be back next week for another breakdown of all things tech and business. The wedding is going to span three days, Kara, because when you're worth 215 billion, why have a reception when you can have a small economic summit? That's no good. Venice is hosting Bezos, where locals protest over tourism. It's like complaining about traffic. Traffic while driving a monster truck to the complaint meeting.

[Kara Swisher]

All right on that. Bye, everybody. See you next week.