Meta and YouTube Lose in Court, Insider Iran Trades, and Sora Shuts Down

Summary

PIVOT Podcast Summary
Episode: Meta and YouTube Lose in Court, Insider Iran Trades, and Sora Shuts Down
Date: March 27, 2026
Hosts: Kara Swisher and Scott Galloway

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Episode Overview

In this episode, Kara Swisher and Scott Galloway tackle a wide range of pressing stories at the intersection of tech, politics, and markets. The episode delves into landmark jury verdicts against Meta and YouTube over social media addiction, the growing scandal and grift around insider trading in the Iran conflict, the shutdown of OpenAI’s Sora app, political upsets in Florida, and Amazon’s rumored new phone. As always, the hosts dish candid, unvarnished perspectives, with plenty of banter, sharp analysis, and memorable moments.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Parenting, Regrets, and Life’s Moves

• Both hosts open with reflections on moving their families for career opportunities, and the emotional cost of career-driven parenting.
  • Kara shares moving her children to DC during her ex-wife’s White House CTO stint (“the kids will have a great time in Washington and get to spend time with like Obama... but it was hard.” – Kara, 04:14).
  • Scott addresses guilt over time away and the adaptability of children: “You have to give your kids more credit for being adaptable than you think.” (05:35)

2. Trump’s Tech Council: Lack of Diversity and Conflict of Interest

• Discussion of President Trump’s plan to appoint tech moguls (Zuckerberg, Ellison, Jensen Huang) to his Technology Council on AI policy.
  • “No regulation to buy more of my shit. That's going to be their [policy].” – Scott, 08:19
  • Kara criticizes the homogeneous, self-interested roster: “It's just not good policy not to have people who doubt each other and debate it.” (09:03)

3. Insiders, Iran, and Market Manipulation

• Allegations of insider trading and grift stemming from the Trump administration’s Iran negotiations press releases.
  • Scott outlines market manipulation: “...President knows that if he just... says anything he... wants—‘talks are going really well’—the markets will respond... This is insider traders.” (17:48–18:52)
  • Kara underscores the scale and brazenness: “They're making money at your expense and cheating while doing it.” (20:56)
• Bipartisan efforts are underway to restrict prediction markets and tighten trading rules for Congress.

4. The Social Media Verdicts: Meta & YouTube Held Liable

• First-ever jury decisions hold Meta and YouTube liable for social media addiction and related harms (California & New Mexico cases).
  • “It's not about... parking tickets... There’s now legal precedent for... these firms [being] civilly... liable.” – Scott, 40:39
  • Kara: “Discovery is going to be brutal... there's all kinds of evidence that they know it. In this case, a lot of stuff came out that they want to attract tweens because they're a lifelong customer, right? It's like cigarettes. It's literally like Joe Camel.” (44:27)
  • The hosts compare tech’s accountability arc to tobacco and opiates: “The nation is actually pretty good at recognizing externalities and harm. It just doesn't act crisply. Took about 30 years with tobacco, 20 years with opiates. Social went on mobile in 2012. It feels like that timing's about right.” – Scott, 42:37

5. OpenAI’s Sora App Shuts Down, and the AI Platform Wars

• Scott’s prescient prediction comes true: OpenAI’s Sora app is shuttered after a brief, underwhelming run.
  • Scott details Sora’s flop: “Sora is the little engine that didn't... users continue to drop like flies.” (49:36)
  • The hosts analyze the AI app market’s churn and shift in enterprise spend toward Anthropic: “Anthropic's new products are just outstanding... They have more momentum right now than any company in the world.” – Scott, 52:55
  • Kara: “The whole visual space around AI just hasn't panned out the way people had hoped... It's not satisfying in a way that real is...” (53:47–55:08)
  • [Significant laugh-out-loud moment with Scott celebrating his correct prediction, 51:10–51:19]

6. Political Upheaval: Florida Legislative Upsets

• Democrats unexpectedly flip multiple seats in Florida, including Trump’s home district (Mar-a-Lago).
  • “Emily Gregory, a first time candidate with a background in public health, won by a little over two points. Astonishing.” – Kara, 27:42
  • Scott: “This all bubbles up to... the most shocking, exciting and... prediction markets—Kalshi saying for the first time that it’s more likely than not that Democrats take the Senate.” (31:10)
• Discussion of TSA and airlines (Delta) finally treating members of Congress like regular people as shutdown drags, strengthening anti-Trump sentiment.

7. Amazon’s Next Phone Attempt?

• Reuters reports Amazon is working on a new “Transformer” AI-connected phone.
  • Kara is skeptical: “Why would Amazon have a phone? ...Amazon is not my device place.” (58:00)
  • Scott makes the case for Amazon bundling phone service into Prime, leveraging Project Kuiper, possibly offering a free device: “...an unbelievable phone for free as part of their Amazon prime membership and then say and get off of AT&T and we'll wrap it all into the greatest loyalty program in history.” (59:22–60:11)

8. Predictions and Looking Ahead

• Scott’s new prediction: OpenAI will quietly kill its hardware project (Jony Ive’s IO), just as it’s shutting Sora. “It’ll be euthanized slowly... There is no way... they’re going to decide to not play in the traffic of hardware... persistent technical problems... It’s not just about execution risk. It’s unsolved product physics... It was originally expected around 2026 and now they're saying 2027. Guess what? It's never gonna ship.” (70:52–71:09)
• Promises future discussion on Democratic infighting in California and failures in the Jeffrey Epstein investigation.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “No regulation to buy more of my shit.” – Scott, mocking Trump’s tech council approach (08:19)
• “They're making money at your expense and cheating while doing it.” – Kara, on Iran insider trading (20:56)
• “If I'd had these devices... I think I just would have been on these things all damn day long.” – Scott, on childhood and social media (43:39)
• “Sora is the little engine that didn't... users continue to drop like flies.” – Scott, prediction on Sora’s demise (49:36)
• “The more they resist, the more a growing group of people, bipartisan across the country, recognizes the damage these companies [do].” – Kara, on tech’s growing legal liabilities (48:37)
• “Brilliant fucking move by Delta.” – Scott, on Delta suspending perks for Congress (29:40)
• “It's net good. The problem is with the word net... This is fossil fuels and pesticides with absolutely no emission standards.” – Scott, on social media platforms (45:56)
• [Scott, mock-gloating about his Sora prediction] “Damn it, my nipples are hard. Touchdown. Jesus.” (51:15)

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Timestamps — Important Segments

• 02:03–07:45: Parenting & moving regrets
• 08:13–10:55: Trump’s tech council and insider big-tech dynamics
• 17:17–22:45: Iran conflict, insider trading, market manipulation
• 29:33–34:49: Florida political upsets, TSA/Delta, congressional privileges
• 40:34–48:37: Meta & YouTube jury verdicts, social media liability
• 49:23–55:09: OpenAI’s Sora app, app market turmoil, Anthropic’s rise
• 58:00–62:46: Amazon’s rumored phone, vertical integration
• 65:47–71:09: OpenAI’s hardware future, prediction of IO’s end

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Tone & Style

The episode matches the hosts’ signature blend of sharp, irreverent analysis, candid admissions, policy-level clarity, and plenty of banter. Swisher is incisive and blunt, Galloway wry and self-deprecating (“Damn it, my nipples are hard”). Both alternate between frustrated outrage and exasperated humor as they dissect the news.

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For First-Time Listeners

This episode epitomizes Pivot’s approach: big tech and politics news recapped with unfiltered wit, expert skepticism, and pointed industry reality checks. It illustrates growing public and legal recoil against big tech’s unchecked power, and the ceaseless churn of political, social, and market chaos—always with an eye for what (and who) comes next.

Transcript

[Kara Swisher]

Support for this show comes from the 2027 Chevy Bolt. Oh, I love the Chevy Bolt. I have mine. How long is 25 minutes? The quick workout or a stop to the grocery store is all the amount of time it takes you to charge your Chevy Bolt. As I said, I drive the Chevy Bolt myself. An older version. And now the Bolt is back and better than ever. A man to trade it in. You can charge from 10% to 80% in just 25 minutes. With public DC fast charging, that's about half the length of this very podcast. Explore Chevy's most affordable [e-mail] Actual charge times will vary. See Owner's manual for details and limitations. Let me say again, I love my car. Never had a problem with it. Best car I've ever owned. Buy the Chevy Bolt. Support for this show comes from Odoo. Running a business takes everything you've got. And a lot of the tools out there that are supposed to make your life easier just aren't great at talking to each other. And that means you end up having to toggle between a dozen different apps and services just to keep the lights on. Enough of that. Now there's Odoo, the all in one fully integrated platform that actually might help you get it all done. Thousands of businesses have made the switch, so why not you try Odoo for [e-mail] that's O-O-O.com.

[Scott Galloway]

support for today's show comes from the Guardian. The Guardian is a news organization that prides itself on remaining fiercely independent. Being free from outside influence means they can report the whole picture. These are values we should expect from our news coverage, but they're harder and harder to find. They connect what's happening in Washington to the rest of the globe, expose corruption fearlessly wherever they find it, and give you a fresh outside perspective on wellness, sports, culture and more. And you're free to read it without a paywall. For U.S. and world news, without compromise or paywall. Read, watch and listen [e-mail]. You know when you text me mean things at 2 in the morning, it's not a good idea and you can't help yourself.

[Kara Swisher]

Hi, everyone, this is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Kara Swisher.

[Scott Galloway]

And I'm Scott Galloway.

[Kara Swisher]

What's going down, Scott?

[Scott Galloway]

What's going down? Just life stuff. All this moving parts around, moving back to the US and then my youngest, who always causes problems, is now like all of a sudden getting as in his school in London. Here. So that's throwing a monkey wrench into everything.

[Kara Swisher]

That's kind of good, though. That means he's capable of great things.

[Scott Galloway]

Well, we always knew that. We just didn't want him to do it at this moment.

[Kara Swisher]

Oh, well, you know what? He can do it anywhere. He can do it. Kids are very malleable. Yes, I moved my. I'm going to read you. Alex is right now taking a signal exam about the Fournier Transform. I don't even understand the things he sends me anymore. I'm. What he's like, let me explain it to you.

[Scott Galloway]

And I'm like, that's a flex. Good for him.

[Kara Swisher]

Flex. He's doing fluid dynamics or. I don't even know.

[Scott Galloway]

When I got at 11:30 on the SAT, I thought that was good. I called my mom and she had no idea what that meant, but she was happy to celebrate with me. She didn't even know what the SAT was. Do you know how much things have changed? This is how I found out. This is how I found out we were moving. My dad came home. I wasn't even sure what was going on with him and my mom and introduced me to Linda, my new mommy. And Linda told me we had all moved. We were all moving to Columbus, Ohio. Cause dad got a promotion. That's how I found out. Not we were moving, but we had already moved and that my parents were, in fact, divorcing. And now we literally obsess.

[Kara Swisher]

You're sensitive to it, let me say. I will give you a story. I moved a lot as a kid, too. My mom was restless and so was my stepfather. And I didn't like it, I have to say. But we moved a lot. Like, a lot a lot.

[Scott Galloway]

How many different schools were you at?

[Kara Swisher]

Only two. Maybe it wasn't the schools, it was

[Scott Galloway]

houses like they were, but in the same school region.

[Kara Swisher]

It was enough that it was not great. I remember thinking. But let me tell you, my own older kids. Thing is, we moved when Megan and I were getting a divorce. She got this offer from the Obamas to President Obama to be the cto.

[Scott Galloway]

CTO of America.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah.

[Scott Galloway]

Again, another flax.

[Kara Swisher]

And. Well, sorry. I mean, it's what it is.

[Scott Galloway]

Which is true. It's a flax.

[Kara Swisher]

She. She was reticent because she didn't want the kids to have to move from San Francisco, where we had a beautiful house and they liked their school a lot and everything else. And I thought, first of all, it's a great opportunity for you. Second of all, the kids will have a great time in Washington and get to spend time with like Obama and stuff like that. It's like one of this, one of lifetime opportunities. But it was hard. We got him to school pretty quickly, but it was a big shift and I felt because of my own childhood stuff bad about it and I have to say I could have done some things better. I should have been there a little bit more. It's complicated but I have to say they did great and they were fine and they really liked San Francisco and this was a shift.

[Scott Galloway]

Well, I think you're going through the same regrets and dilemmas that the primary breadwinner goes through and what I would say is having unfortunately in a capitalist society, money opens too many opportunities. So that sacrifice, which was tough for them, you not being maybe as present as you would have liked was harder on you and paid huge benefits for them. At least that's what I say to make myself feel better.

[Kara Swisher]

By the way, primary bedwinner. My ex wife was an early Google executive, so just go with it.

[Scott Galloway]

I'm trying to make myself feel better about not being around when my kids

[Kara Swisher]

were little, but I have to say I was, you know, they def. There was moving as hard with kids at the same time I think they really benefited and they, they learned to adapt and they loved their, they ended up loving their school and got into sports and so it was, it was definitely not unrocky. But I think you, you have to give your kids more credit for being adaptable than you think.

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah, I just, I don't know. I pretend like I have any fucking say in this decision anyways, anyway. But so yeah, we were America.

[Kara Swisher]

Got to get back to America.

[Scott Galloway]

I always go to the reason we're worried about this is because we don't have real problems.

[Kara Swisher]

It's like, oh, it's a normal thing to be worried about your kid. Everyone wants, no matter where you are in the economic spectrum, you want your kids to do well for the most part. Most people do anyway.

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah, but what you said about getting a chance to hang out with President Obama and go to all those wonderful museums. I've told my partner that my 15 year old, I can get him a fake ID and he can come to Shamar, go with me, talk to the lovely Russian ladies who make eye contact with me because they think he's so old he must be rich.

[Kara Swisher]

No, you know what? New York's an amazing place to be. The age he will be. It'll be really interesting for him. I think it's just really a tremendous city. It really is. It just It's.

[Scott Galloway]

I think I've said this before. You never know. It's like you don't know you're in the salad days until you're out of them. Like, I, I know that the last. As I get older, I. And I'm already doing this. I'm already really like painfully missing the period when my kids were like three and six. Like that, you know, Sunday morning chaos.

[Kara Swisher]

I have to say, I love it.

[Scott Galloway]

You just really, like, you really long for that. Like, that's the moment you want to be solved. There's a solution.

[Kara Swisher]

You can have more kids like I did.

[Scott Galloway]

Unless my prostate's gonna give birth, I don't think that something is. I don't think that's in the cards.

[Kara Swisher]

In any case, one of the statistics I speaking that I just read was you spend, by the time they go to college, 90%. You have spent 90%.

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah. Of all time you're gonna spend with them.

[Kara Swisher]

And that kills me. After I heard that, I was like, last night my kids were crawling all over me and at first I was trying to eat dinner and I was like, oh. And then I thought, oh, fine, fine, it's fine.

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah, my son's doing orientation at his college and it's a one day thing. And I'm like, let's go for four days, we'll just hang out. And he's like, no, I don't wanna hang out.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, it's Cat's in the Cradle, my friend. Anyway, I love that song. We gotta get to news, though. There's so much. Oh, that, that. Listen. President Trump plans to install big tech names like Mark Zuckerberg, Larry Olson and Jensen Huang to a technology council to weigh in on AI policies and other issues. We were not invited.

[Scott Galloway]

AI policy. Buy more of my shit.

[Kara Swisher]

Buy more of my shit.

[Scott Galloway]

US Government. Buy more of this.

[Kara Swisher]

You know, it's. Again, bereft.

[Scott Galloway]

No regulation to buy more of my shit. That's going to be their.

[Kara Swisher]

Anybody who has a different alternative view that these are the only experts, I would say our invitation was lost or the dog ate our invitation. But he hates dogs, so Trump ate our invitation. I just don't. This list is nobody who has any doubt about it, nobody who has any good research. No one whose interests are not aligned with it. No regulation with any kind of.

[Scott Galloway]

There's conflicts everywhere.

[Kara Swisher]

Everywhere. I just.

[Scott Galloway]

What do you know? Jensen Huang's a big fan of selling, being able to sell his chips into China, despite the fact these are the chips that you do war games with and track are Ohio class Submarines.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah. And Larry Ellison wants more, more data centers. And, you know, I just this.

[Scott Galloway]

Oh, God.

[Kara Swisher]

These people, like you think if you were a real president. And I think this guy is losing it every single day, including the polls, which are just like, look out below. But it's really amazing that he doesn't want other inputs like that may vary from his rich friends. It's just, I find it. It's just not good policy not to have people who doubt each other and debate it. I just, I don't understand. Yeah, we're waiting for an invite. Even just you. Even you. If he needs the white guys, even you. Well, you'd be good.

[Scott Galloway]

I love that. Well, I thank you.

[Kara Swisher]

Even if you're the white guy, they're not gonna have me. I'm irritating to all of these people. And so, you know, I'm just saying.

[Scott Galloway]

I'm just saying, you. Speaking of which.

[Kara Swisher]

Oh, yeah.

[Scott Galloway]

Someone was. Someone said, I don't know. On one of these many, many platforms which are just so good for your mental health, that care was a total shill for big tech. And I wrote. Do you realize I have been on. When you go on a board and they don't want you on the board, they stick you on the nominating and governance committee. Oh, I have fucking lutely no power information.

[Kara Swisher]

Okay.

[Scott Galloway]

And your job is to find new directors. And it's just, it's literally like, you know, put them at the weird kids table. And so I've of course served on a lot of nominating and governance committees and where you're supposed to recruit new board members. If you were in such a pain in the ass to these people, you'd be fucking chairman of SpaceX right now.

[Kara Swisher]

I would be.

[Scott Galloway]

Because over the last 20 years, we have correctly started saying, all right, let's try and broaden the aperture and bring in candidates who potentially don't look, smell and feel like us and aren't members of the same country club. So a journalist, a gay journalist who's covered tech. You were built in a factory of

[Kara Swisher]

less than a year. No, I'm going to go on a board next year. Discuss that. You're.

[Scott Galloway]

I know, but the reason. I mean this sincerely, Cara, you're not

[Kara Swisher]

going to have me on.

[Scott Galloway]

The reason you haven't been invited to be on.

[Kara Swisher]

I was invited to one. I was invited to one.

[Scott Galloway]

Okay, but the reason you haven't been invited to half a dozen is because you get in their face. And on boards, nobody's going to put. They don't mind someone who has Alternative opinions or whatever. But ever since, quite frankly, I'll be blunt. Ever since I started becoming more outspoken on podcasts, I used to get invited to go on three or four boards a year. It's gone way down.

[Kara Swisher]

Wow. Interesting.

[Scott Galloway]

Because the public CEOs are like. The public CEOs are like, okay, no, let's call him, let's bring him in, let's talk to him. But I don't want him in my boardroom.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah. Let me address something, though. This week, I gave a thing at Syracuse University. They asked me this amazing tone.

[Scott Galloway]

The Orangeman.

[Kara Swisher]

The Orangeman. And you know, I was talking about things that I've talked about a lot about CNN and the Ellisons owning it and this and that, and where AI

[Scott Galloway]

is going, ooh, a little controversy. This controversy. Little controversy. I just want to say that I find David Ellison very attractive.

[Kara Swisher]

I do, too.

[Scott Galloway]

And Larry Ellison is a nice guy. He's a huge, big brain thinker.

[Kara Swisher]

He's a nice guy. He makes great movies.

[Scott Galloway]

I would absolutely love to work for them.

[Kara Swisher]

Yes. Okay. All right, listen. This is what happened. I was telling things I've said 109 times before. I don't want to work for a tech mogul. I don't. I just never have. Walt and I didn't take money for.

[Scott Galloway]

As opposed to a media mogul. You work for media moguls.

[Kara Swisher]

Yes. Yes.

[Scott Galloway]

I'm calling Challenger. So you'd rather work for Rupert Murdoch than Larry Ellison?

[Kara Swisher]

We left Rupert Murdoch, my friend.

[Scott Galloway]

You did work there.

[Kara Swisher]

You did work there until as fast as I could get out, I got out.

[Scott Galloway]

How long were you there? Hold on, hold on, hold on. How long were you there?

[Kara Swisher]

Just like two years before we could get out.

[Scott Galloway]

You were only there two years?

[Kara Swisher]

No, I was there a long time. But he didn't buy it for a while in any case, Scott, we left News Corp because of Rupert Murdoch. And that behavior around the taping of that dead girl, that was awful. It was awful. We left very soon after and we. On purpose.

[Scott Galloway]

This is the voicemail thing.

[Kara Swisher]

Yes.

[Scott Galloway]

Oh, God.

[Kara Swisher]

I know. Exactly. So we did that and we took money. We were offered money from Silicon Valley venture capitalists, and we took money from Terry Semel, who is. Had a media fund.

[Scott Galloway]

Oh, yeah. Yahoo, cbs.

[Kara Swisher]

Anyway, he's a lovely guy. Amazing guy, amazing person. He had a media fund, and then we took money from NBC, but we were offered venture capital money, and we didn't take it because I was like, these fuckers, they're gonna fuck me. Like that. That was real.

[Scott Galloway]

And also there's a word for that. Venture capitalist. Go ahead.

[Kara Swisher]

But anyway, we didn't take the money. And then I just don't wanna work for tech people. I've said that to you on this podcast a dozen fucking times, right? Haven't I? It doesn't. So I repeat that again. But what I did was Scott McFarlane, who left CBS and is now with Midas Touch, which is very fast growing thing. And they're going into news now instead of just news aggregation, which is a cool thing. And they've hired. Scott is an astonishing journalist. He did an amazing job around the January 6 and the Justice Department. Astonishing. Very handsome man, by the way. You would love his handsomeness. Very tall, went to Syracuse and so he was the emcee. And as a joke, he was like, you know, he was talking about going independent. Oh, no. Cause he looked like an ad for an anchor. He. A typical TV anchor. And he was, you know, he's like, oh, goodness, I'm taking a big leap. And I was like, oh, it's going to be great. And I said to him, I said, you made the right decision. And I was looking directly at him and joking. I'm like, you don't want to work for the Ellisons. I mean, he's a terrible person. I was just like, like laying it on as a joke. The whole crowd laughed. I was not. I don't think Larry Ellison's a terrible person. He's. He's got. He's a. He's actually very funny. I don't agree with him on a lot of things. He's an amazing entrepreneur. He has great aesthetic taste, by the way, and his ship, his boats are fantastic. Like, I was joking to Scott McFarlane directly. And somehow these reporters were like, kara Swisher thinks Larry Ellison is a terrible person. And it was crazy. And it's also all the things I've said before, many times. Like, it's. It's kind of weird. And then it became a thing. Whatever. I. I like. By the way, let me just be clear. I like David Ellison. He's a nice guy. Larry Ellison is a tough dude. I'm sorry. He really is. And people can dislike him because he's had a really. He's been a tough cowboy of over the many years. That said, I do think he's very innovative and has done astonishing things. And so. But I don't want to work. I don't want to work for tech people. I don't. And that's perfectly, you know, legitimate. And frankly, the decisions they've made have been terrible around stuff that concerns me and that worries me of them taking over Santa. And so what? Big deal.

[Scott Galloway]

I think you're being bigoted against wealthy white men. You know, I don't. You know, you wouldn't have to worry about this if you weren't living forever.

[Kara Swisher]

I know. I'm sure the CNN people are like, it's premiering soon. And she insults the new owners.

[Scott Galloway]

I mean, I'm being very serious. I get. I'm speaking in one of these events tonight anyways. But I get a huge amount of power from my atheism because I find it very comforting to know at some point everyone I'm worried about is gonna be dead. And so am I. I find it actually quite liberating to realize, okay, squeeze all the juice you can out of this lemon called life. Cause we're gonna be dead soon. And take risks. And if you fuck up, it really doesn't matter.

[Kara Swisher]

We are on the same wavelength.

[Scott Galloway]

No, in a hundred years, no one's gonna remember us or anybody we care about anyway.

[Kara Swisher]

Moving on. The Pentagon, this is troubling to me, is sending roughly 2 from the 82nd Airborne Division to the Middle East. As of this recording, there's been no decision to put. I hate this expression, boots on the ground, but that's what it is. Trump is talking a lot of talk this week saying the war has effectively been won. Iran wants to make a deal and negotiations are happening right now, even as Iran disputes that. And I hate to say it, but I believe Iran and I don't like the people who are running Iran. And he said he got a gift from Iran, calling it a very big present worth a tremendous amount of money and tied to oil and gas. I think he's just making shit up now. He's also sent a. A 15 point plan to end the war demands, including dismantling nuclear sites ending in Richmond and reopening the Strait of Hormuz. We certainly had some of those things in place before. And as potential talks may or may not be taking shape, there are reports that Iran would prefer to deal with Vice President J.D. vance over Jared Kushner and Steve Witkoff. Wow. That's a choice. That's a choice. But I would agree with the Iranians on that. And Vance has been the person who, you know, is going to be running for president and could possibly be president and also has been opposed to the war quietly that he certainly ran on the idea of no more wars and he's also a veteran. I don't know. What do you think about that.

[Scott Galloway]

It's all, I mean, I go to the markets. So there was an unusual amount of futures that changed hands.

[Kara Swisher]

Please talk about this.

[Scott Galloway]

Well, I believe that in a digital world where forensics and AI and investigative journalists, one of the wonderful things about America is that people see incentive in finding out what actually went down. And I think that's one of the wonderful things about our society. I think you're going to see President Trump four or five years post his presidency sitting in front of, of a camera and a jury pretending to be too old and he just doesn't remember him telling his buddies, his friends, his family members to buy, buy, buy that. Oh, I think I'm going to announce that the talks are going really well, even though according to the Islamic Republic there are no talks which will send the markets skyrocketing. And then when it comes out 24, 48 hours later that in fact there are no talks. And then the market's oil surges again and the markets go down. And this is an insider traders.

[Kara Swisher]

It's right from the White House. It's right from the White House.

[Scott Galloway]

Ivan Boesky could not have dreamt of this situation. The ability to trade on near certainty. The President knows that if he just a, he can say any he believes he can say anything he fucking wants. It doesn't matter. I can lie, I can be full of shit, just put out press releases. It doesn't matter. Kind of the, you know, funding secured over and over.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, exactly.

[Scott Galloway]

And I know that the markets will respond swiftly to my comments. There is now zero day options where you can buy options that expire by the end of the day. And I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that sometimes the President doesn't have that much fidelity to rule of law or conflicts of interest.

[Kara Swisher]

I find it like this has happened over and over again. He must just say things while on the toilet and people then trade or whatever. And you know, interestingly, let me note, lawmakers are introducing bipartisan bills to ban prediction markets from listing. There's a lot of action on this now from listing sports bets and to prohibit members of Congress from trading in certain markets. Facing the heat. Cal Sheet plans to block athletes, coaches and officials from betting on their sports and political candidates from trading on their campaigns. And polymarket announced finally enhanced market integrity rules, including banning trading on stolen confidential information. I mean, this has happened rather quickly and it's quite important that this happen. It's just grift. It's just out and out grift. These Numbers. And you know, that Democrats are prepared. This is like, so deep in the heart of easy to prove. Right. This kind of stuff and who's doing it. And so I think they better, you know, they better hope they get those pardons from, From, From Trump and he pardons himself. Because this is just really, It's. Let me break it down for regular people. They're making money at your expense and cheating while doing it. Like what? I don't know what else to say.

[Scott Galloway]

Look, the Democrats engage in what I'll call small cap corruption, and that is, it's not illegal to trade stocks right now, if you're a U.S. congressperson, I

[Kara Swisher]

think it should be.

[Scott Galloway]

And even though there are regulations and guidelines against it, the fines is a slap on the wrist. So the incentives are, if I'm sitting in a, you know, the Senate, if I'm on the Defense Committee or the Intelligence Committee, and we're talking about a $30 billion contract to Northrop Grumman, and it looks like it's going to go through. And my guess is Northrop Grumman will put out a press release in 72 hours. Hey, honey. Hey. Paul Pelosi. I really like Northrop, and I just want to be even handed here. I think Trump is.

[Kara Swisher]

Scott, you do this every time. This is like massive corruption in a different way.

[Scott Galloway]

It's just corruption on a different scale. But it's still corruption.

[Kara Swisher]

It is, but you tend to go right to Nancy Pelosi, who's leaving Congress. We know we should have passed these bills because.

[Scott Galloway]

Okay, because in order to be taken seriously, we have to be critical thinkers and apply it to both sides of the aisle. I understand this is okay, but let's look at the data. Over the last, what is it, 20 years, the S and P has tripled and the Pelosi portfolio is up sevenfold. And nothing she has done is illegal. This is a certain type of corruption. What Trump has done is said, okay, that's small ball. You're corrupt for millions. I'm going to be corrupt for billions. Because what he's done, and I'm not sure it's illegal, but we've been dependent upon. And Barry Goldwater predicted this 50 years ago. We have been too dependent upon a series of norms as opposed to laws, and have slowly but surely ceded power.

[Kara Swisher]

You're absolutely right.

[Scott Galloway]

So Trump says, oh, everyone's doing it. Marjorie Taylor Greene was doing everyone. Not everyone. A significant number of people in Congress have been trading stocks and beating the market.

[Kara Swisher]

Mark Wayne Mullen was one of them.

[Scott Galloway]

They Can't. And also in my solution, I think they should make, I think people in Congress, I think representatives should make a million dollars a year and senators should make $2 million a year.

[Kara Swisher]

I agree.

[Scott Galloway]

They make I think 168,000, $178,000 a year.

[Kara Swisher]

Small.

[Scott Galloway]

If you have two homes and you're living in D.C. and you weren't rich before running for Congress.

[Kara Swisher]

We should pay for their apartments. I mean I just.

[Scott Galloway]

You can't afford. You can't afford.

[Kara Swisher]

We should have these nice apartments for them that are actually secure. So make them more secure.

[Scott Galloway]

Pay them. The Sing model, probably the best run nation in the world. The Singapore model. They pay their elected officials a lot of money and they have zero tolerance. You cannot go to work for a lobbying firm or a PAC company. There has to be a sunlight period or whatever they call it, a sunshine period. You cannot in any way have any inside domain benefit in any way. We find out you've called your cousin in the Philippines and here she is trading stocks. You're probably gonna get lashed. That's literally what it's like at Singapore. And what do you know, there's no corruption anyways. He has taken it to an absolutely new level. But just circling back where I started, we're gonna find out that the greatest levels volume of insider trading in history are happening and originating out of Pennsylvania Avenue.

[Kara Swisher]

Absolutely 100%. I think there are people talking about whether it's treasonous or not to release these things because these are boots on the ground that could get hurt and everything else. So there's a whole level of comple here because they're betting on possible deaths of Americans and others. Sending JDvan. Where do you imagine this Iran thing? Because it is going back and forth and back and forth. The market is trying to grok it and it feels very whipsaw. So far they've given it hasn't suffered that badly. You had talked about a real decline in the market. Is this the thing that will pull

[Scott Galloway]

it off or the thing that will pull. You mean signing JD vans Fast transfers.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, like.

[Scott Galloway]

But sending Vice President Vance is a signal. There's a few signals here. One the scariest signal is we have amphibious ships and combat marines being deployed to the region. This is either you could argue he's just playing poker or in fact he's planning to put in the terminal like boots on the ground in Kharg and maybe do a swap where I'll let the oil flow through Kharg if you ensure the Straits of Hormuzer are safe passage. There's all sorts of game theory going on here. He has a tendency to lie and then before a quote unquote surprise attack, which I think is bad for our brand long term, America has to be seen as doing what they say and meaning what they say and saying they mean. But anyways, sending Vance is a signal because.

[Kara Swisher]

Well, no, they're not sending Vance. The Iranians want Vance.

[Scott Galloway]

Well, but the Iranians want Vance. And this is, quite frankly, this is a signal for the people who want this to end because Vance is on the record as saying for a long time that these types of misadventures overseas were a bad idea.

[Kara Swisher]

He's been really quiet.

[Scott Galloway]

Well, he hasn't. He's like, I think I won't let let Scott Besent do that. He. The last thing he wants to do is get on with Kirsten Welker and have her bring up about 5 million tapes. And where he said, under no World War III under Biden, we should never get into these quagmires overseas. There's just.

[Kara Swisher]

He's trying his best to justify it.

[Scott Galloway]

He is literally just doing everything he can to stay out of the way of mics and cameras.

[Kara Swisher]

He's literally hiding behind the curtain. He's like, don't ask me. He's done a few like, real pretzel moves that are really problematic.

[Scott Galloway]

But the IRGC probably believes correctly, he's more likely to be empathetic, to want to de escalate. So this is a good side, the fact that the Trump administration is entertaining this, both sides. I think he is probably the guy that can find common ground here.

[Kara Swisher]

Not Rubio. Well, we'll see.

[Scott Galloway]

But Rubio's perceived as a bit of a hawk. A lot of people think he's the shadow president right now. What has been the most militarily adventurous administration in a long time.

[Kara Swisher]

Incredible. And they're planning Cuba next, which is like, oh, God, I mean, let them die themselves. They're already on their last legs. Just let them fall and then we'll move in the hotels.

[Scott Galloway]

I'm sorry. Under the auspices of having an opinion about shit. I have no domain expertise. Let me just say that the smartest thing we could do geopolitically as it relates to Cuba would be to be sending humanitarian aid to them right now. If you want the people to rise up and think, you know, the Americans aren't that bad, maybe we should normalize relations at some point the Castro family will die out. It would be starching our hat white and sending power Fuel and food to Cuba right now.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, it worked out so well for the Kennedy administration. But what's really interesting is this is all having an effect. Democrats pulled off a surprising win in Florida, actually a pair of them, but one that was particularly surprising. Flipping two legislative seats including the district that covers Mar? A Lago. Like he now has a Democratic representative. Emily Gregory, a first time candidate with a background in public health won by a little over two points. Astonishing. This was a big Trump district. Trump has taken to social media to support her opponent obviously. And President Trump who's called voting by mail cheating, voted by mail in the election. I mean the list of things Democrats have won recently is really something. I mean else to see them winning in all sorts of districts and from people I know down there, they're just furious at him. They really are. These are all his fans or people who voted for him. And it's really, I'm not sure, I think they're going to try to steal the election. I don't think it's going to be possible giving the overwhelming numbers that are going to happen. And another thing that's affecting him. And these are two topic as we record negotiations to end the five week DHS shutdown or standstill with Congress scheduled to go into recess any minute. The Republicans have brought a number of possibilities to Trump, but he's turned them all down and the Democrats are sticking. The sticking points are still ice, funding and enforcement reforms. Very simple things. Don't wear masks. Bring in judicial warrants and cameras. TSA officers will miss in their paycheck this Friday if the deal hasn't reached. On Tuesday morning, Delta Airlines suspended specialty services for members of Congress. They're going to have to wait in line like everybody else, which I think is great. All of them. You said in our last show that grounding private planes might move the needle and I love that Delta and others are pushing back. The TSA is pushing back against ice.

[Scott Galloway]

Great move by Delta. Great, great brand enhancing. Brilliant fucking move by Delta.

[Kara Swisher]

And no one likes ICE there. Like TSA has said it's useless. The airlines think it's useless. There was a pilot that got on, on social media where he's like this fucking sucks people. And I have to say this is all at Donald Trump's door. Cuz he's refusing to deal because of the SAVE act and letting people wait in line. I love that congresspeople have to wait in line. I love it. And so talk about this win in Mar? A Lago and what's happening with tsa because besides Iran, this is yet another series of things that are indicators, leading indicators.

[Scott Galloway]

District 87, Palm Beach county, as you notice, includes, you know, White House, Florida and a really impressive young woman. I love this.

[Kara Swisher]

Emily Gregory, fantastic.

[Scott Galloway]

40 year old small business owner and military spouse running for office for the first time, defeated Republican John Maples, who had Trump's complete and total endorsement. She won with 51.2% with turnout roughly at 29%. Trump carried the district by 11 points in 2024.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, that's a lot.

[Scott Galloway]

The previous Republican incumbent won by 20 points. I mean this is. And then let's go up, let's go up the, you know, let's go up the coast of the great state of Florida. Democrat Brian Nathan, a Navy veteran and union organizer, upset Republican Josie Tomkow by just 408 votes, a margin of 0.5%, which could trigger a machine recount. But Tomkow outspent Nathan more than 3 to 1. And it looks like Nathan won and received over 400,000 in kind contributions from the Florida Republican Senatorial Campaign Committee. The previous Republican incumbent, Jay Collins, won the seat by 10 points in 2022. And this all bubbles up to the most shocking, exciting and somewhat. I'm almost worried we're peaking too early right now. No, the prediction markets. Kalsha sang for the first time that it's more likely than not that Democrats take the Senate. When have we heard that? Everyone has said the narrative so far from quote unquote, all the experts is it's likely, very likely Democrats will get control of the House. But the map is really difficult for Senate. Really difficult. Like looking at the people. And now, now people, more people are betting their money on Democrats taking the Senate. This is, it's wild.

[Kara Swisher]

I think the Democrats are fielding much better candidate. This woman seems, I love her. I was like, I love you. She was focusing on maternal health and affordability issues. You have Abby Spanberger in Virginia. You've got Mickey Sherrill, you've got even Mondavan.

[Scott Galloway]

There are people, good candidates at Calarico.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, Calarico. And not just centrist ones, just really good everywhere.

[Scott Galloway]

Young people, fresh ideas.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, fresh ideas.

[Scott Galloway]

Tough, regular sized prostates, still childbearing. Actually think about kids, actually have kids at home.

[Kara Swisher]

Yep. Yeah, I feel really good about the candidates. And the Trump ones look like a bunch of cult members or acolytes that really hate him secretly. And by the way, let me stress to everybody, if you hang around Republicans, off the record, they eviscerate Trump on the record, they suck up to it makes them so awful. Like, like at least the Democrats fight in public, I guess than they do. But it's really, it's really something to see what's happening here. That was, I think there's the Mar a Lago one is particularly notable obviously, but across the country in places where Democrats have never won, Georgia, Kansas, all these places, they're, they're knocking up wins. And, and so that, that creates a real opportunity if Democrats walk into it. I think so far on the local level like this, the candidates have been speaking what they're listening to voters and they're, they're, they're not, I don't think they're just mouthing things like, I think they actually are concerned with what, what do voters want? This is our customers and we're going to give them what they want anyway. Delta. Let's give Delta a big old class.

[Scott Galloway]

I'm, I met the CEO there and a good friend of mine's on the board. Whoever came up with this idea. That is one of the most brand enhancing, thoughtful, egalitarian American thing. This was such an amazing corporate move. And it directly. And again, it flies in the face, or not flies in the face. It supports what I believe is the greatest commercial opportunity. I just had a phone call with, I think, one of the most thoughtful business leaders in America who runs an iconic investment bank. And I said to him, the greatest commercial opportunity in a long time has been presented and that is in a thoughtful, non ad hominem, non personal attack, discussing values of America and how they have been so incredibly important to our capital markets. To do what Dario EMODI and now to a certain extent, what Delta Airlines is saying and to say, no, this isn't a direct affront on the Trump administration.

[Kara Swisher]

No, it's all congresspeople. For people who don't know, congresspeople can sail through security.

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah, but what this is saying is people don't know that, but people blame Trump and the Republicans mostly for this shutdown. So by them saying this is unacceptable, by Delta saying this is unacceptable, and our leadership who has fucked this up by quite frankly demanding that the SAVE act be a part of this or ICE funding, we are no longer going to engage in facilitating this.

[Kara Swisher]

Wait in line. We're getting the back of the line. The line back of the line. Which is great. All right. We think it's great. Get back in the line. Lines suck, by the way. And it's terrible for the TSA people who deserve to be paid. And ICE people are being paid and they're doing nothing but buying coffee and irritating people. They handed out water in the line through security. How stupid can you be anyway? Okay, Scott, let's go on a quick break. We come back Meta and YouTube are found liable in the first of the social media addiction lawsuit suits. Support for this show comes from Vanguard. If you're a financial adviser, then you're probably thinking about how to set up your clients for success. A fixed income strategy like bonds is a good place to start. However, with tricky markets and rate shifts, there may be some unforeseen risks. That's why having a partner with scale and expertise matters. Vanguard brings both. Vanguard bonds are institutional quality. 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The Chevy Bolt is back and better than ever now with 2.5 times faster charging with DC Public fast charging that goes from 10 to 80 in just 25 minutes. I've been riding around in the Bolt for years and again, I have to say, I love it. I don't know why I love it so much. It's just, it's a happy car. So many times you have sad cars, happy cars. I've had the cars for a couple of years. I've never had a problem with it. It's freezing cold here in D.C. right now and nothing happened to my battery. I charge it. I happen to charge at my house. It does take a little longer, but with this new Chevy Bolt, it's much faster. I'm thinking of trading it in. Although I love my Bolt, so it's a very difficult decision. I just think I can't say enough about the Chevy Bolt and the amount of time you've been listening to this show, your Bolt could have charged and be ready to hit the road. Best of all, 2027 Bolt features upgraded tech, has an 11.3-inch diagonal touchscreen. All that more in Chevy, Chevy's most affordable EV. It was easy to use before. It's easier to use and easier to charge, and I know some people are worried about that. You shouldn't be. Learn [e-mail] bolt 2.5 times faster charging with 150k kilowatt plus DC fast charging 2027 volt when compared to the 2023 bolt, which is the one I think I have. Actual charge times will vary. See the owner's manual for details and limitations. Support for this show comes from ShipStation when your company is growing fast, order fulfillment can make or break your success. Shipstation's intelligence driven platform brings order management, rate shopping, inventory and returns, warehouse systems and comprehensive analytics all in one place, saving customers 15 hours per week on fulfillment. With Shipstation, everything you need to manage getting your product to customers is in one place. Place you can connect to over 200 sales channels and instead of five to seven disconnected tools, you've got one. You can also set up time saving automations. ShipStation picks the best carrier, finds you the best rate, prints labels in bulk, and sends tracking updates. Done Share tracking details can cut customer service inquiries by 12%. Returns management can give you data on what's coming back and why, and analytics can show you where you're saving and where to optimize. Try ShipStation for free for 60 days with full access to all features. No credit card needed. Go to shipstation.com and use the code pivot for 60 days for free. 60 days gives you plenty of time to see exactly how much time and money you're saving on every shipment. That's shipstation.com code pivot shipstation.com code pivot. Scott we're back with more News. Meta and YouTube have been found liable of harming a young user with features that were addictive to her mental health. A California jury found Meta must pay $4.2 million and YouTube 1.8 million. It's not very much money. She asked for a billion. The case focused on features like infinite scroll and algorithmic recommendations. As a reminder, both TikTok and Snap settled before the trial began. Meta has also been found liable for failing to protect young people from online dangers. In a New Mexico case there, meta must pay 375 million. A little more, but still a parking ticket for this company. The company made 160 times that in revenue last quarter. These verdicts are the first in social media addiction trials, social media impact trials, as the New York Post cover said, meta culpa, which we love. We love. Scott, what do you think? Here we go. We're over the edge with juries involved. Juries are tired of social media.

[Scott Galloway]

I generally want to get your viewpoint on it, but my initial instinct is that this is actually a big deal.

[Kara Swisher]

It is.

[Scott Galloway]

And it's not about, as you said, it's not about the parking tickets that have been issued. It's that there's now legal precedent for what the activities these firms engage in makes them civilly at least liable. And the other piece of information I got that I found fascinating is their insurance company are trying to reject the claim, saying that they intentionally, they knew they were intentionally doing this and so they're not covered by insurance. And my sense is it's not about this case. It's that the other several hundred or several thousand cases against these firms just got a lot stronger because of this decision.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, there's a real backup. You know, this has been something you and I have been talking about. I went back.

[Scott Galloway]

Oh, you think? Yes, I thought I wrote a book on this about 10 years ago.

[Kara Swisher]

Just saying you wrote a book on this. And I wrote a book on this talking about these problems and how liable they were. Lack of accountability, lack of regulatory scrutiny of anybody except some in other countries, in fact, rolling over for them, both by Obama and Trump, of course, because he takes money from them. You know, I think their high water mark was standing with Trump at the inaugural. I think this was starting to be in place when people realized after January 6th, I think that social media has a real impact and been a slow burn, that's for sure. And our regulators have done nothing, let me just say, not in states, in our federal regulators. And I don't mean to say Amy Klobuchar and others have not tried. I just think they have not been successful because of the pushback. And in this case, I think you're going to see furious pushback by these companies even for this small an amount. Right. This tiny amount of money, because they don't want any accountability for what they're doing. They want to skate out of responsibility and they can't because now it's in front of juries. And every person knows addiction is an issue, sloppy management is an issue, and threats to kids are an issue.

[Scott Galloway]

I saw you on Anderson Cooper last night and I mean, and you had, I thought was exactly the Right point. And we've been talking about this and that is the nation is actually pretty good at recognizing externalities and harm. It just, just doesn't act crisply. Took about 30 years with tobacco, 20 years with opiates. Social went on mobile in 2012. It feels like that timing's about right. That about at 2032, unfortunately. And I'm personally aggrieved, quite frankly. My kids got fucked up on these things. You know, your kids, your first generation, your older kids, Alex and Louie had to endure this. And my sense is they've come through a pretty, pretty, pretty unscathed.

[Kara Swisher]

They had less of it. They had less of it. It wasn't quite, you know, they were, your kids are the zero. Ground zero. I think my kids were near a blast zone, but not the same quite thing. I think they like YouTube. They were a little bit on Snapchat, you know what I mean? But it wasn't as intense and hateful as it became.

[Scott Galloway]

But as big tech always does, this praise on the poor, because if I'd had these devices and a mother who was gone before I got up in the morning and got home after, sometimes after I was asleep because she was working and I was totally unsupervised and I had YouTube and Snap and YouPorn and Meta and Facebook, I think I just would have been on these things all damn day long. And as I was going through puberty, my brain would have been wired for constant squeezing of a dopa bag, which I believe could have very easily taken me away. I used to leave my house to go hang out with my friends because I was so bored. I'm not sure I would have left my house.

[Kara Swisher]

You wouldn't. Why would you? Why would you? I mean, one of the things that they've done, and I think as, as these cases come to fruit, the discovery is going to be brutal. I mean, I think they know it. There's all kinds of evidence that they know it. In this case, a lot of stuff came out that they want to, they want to attract tweens because they're a lifelong custom, right? It's like cigarette. It's literally like Joe Camel when you read this stuff, if you put cigarette in there. And what's incredible here is I actually believe the cigarette manufacturers knew exactly the problem of nicotine. I think these guys think that they're not, it's not their fault. It's never their fault. And then they hide behind the First Amendment. Hey, it's just people talking. And there was a great story in the Washington Post today about Republicans worried about young Republicans being so anti Semitic, Nazi focused, sort of hateful. And where do you think this comes from? And again, I don't blame them fully. I don't, I don't, I don't think it's fully. But they've created addictive and necessary features without any kind of guardrails in place or any kind of. It's not like they're like, hey, let everything go. And I think that's, it's sort of like they're evil babysitters. Right. In some fashion. And at some point the babysitter has to get, get dinged in in some way that, that's they consider themselves. It's not their fault if people eat their shitty food. I, you know what I mean? Like our tainted meat. It's okay, you know. And of course everyone else gets regulated but them.

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah, I think their argument would be we don't get any credit for all the good we. Yeah, all the good we.

[Kara Swisher]

Why aren't there parades, right?

[Scott Galloway]

That we, that people do learn. People do it helps them with their homework. They do make connections, you know, parents of kids with childhood rare, her childhood diseases. Social media does add a lot of value. It creates tremendous economic growth, a lot of high paying jobs. They would argue we're a net good. And I would argue that's actually true. The problem is with the word net and that is we're net beneficiaries from fossil fuels and pesticides, but we still have a Clean Air act, we still have an epa, we still have an fda.

[Kara Swisher]

Right?

[Scott Galloway]

And this is fossil fuels and pesticides with absolutely no emission standards. Now when I lived in la, I was talking, I went on vacation with a buddy of mine. We grew up in LA together. There were days where by the end of the school day you couldn't breathe in. And they cleaned it up.

[Kara Swisher]

They cleaned it up and that's what's happening here.

[Scott Galloway]

Unfortunately. I thought of it yesterday. I was trying to think. I was asked to go on and talk about this and instead I decided to go out and drink. But I was thinking, okay, is this the beginning of the end? It's not. You know what this is? This is the end of the beginning. This industry's not going anywhere. But the era of we need to do better from Sheryl Sandberg or Mark Zuckerberg weaponizing thousands of lawyers and lobbyists to delay and obfuscate and gloss over the internal research that showed 1 out of 12 teens in the UK was cited Instagram for their suicidal ideation. I do Think that ERA is coming to a close. And my favorite part of the case is that there was an undercover operation, I think from the Attorney General in New Mexico, where they created accounts posing as an 11 year old girl, which was almost immediately inundated with images and targeted solicitations from, wait for it, child abusers.

[Kara Swisher]

That's right.

[Scott Galloway]

So it took the attorney general about 48 hours to figure this shit out. And we're supposed to believe that Meta wasn't aware of it?

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, we don't believe them and neither did the jury, by the way. We're gonna move on a second, but I gotta say I did quote you last night on Anderson, where you say, you know, we're bound by the law, but not protected by it. And they're protected by the law, not bound by it. Now they're bound by it and they are going to fight their asses off. You know what, Mark? Just pay the money and fix it. Like just stop. Like stop. Because the more they resist, the more a growing group of people, bipartisan across the country, recognizes the damage these companies and. And then of course, the same day, Donald Trump names all of these people to a committee on AI with not nary a critic on it, right? Everybody with self interest is on that advisory committee. And nobody who's gonna talk about the possibilities of problem, only up and to the right. And once again they're gonna try to do it. And let me tell you folks, we need to stop them now because the damage they will do, they have shown no ability to control themselves.

[Scott Galloway]

You need to age gate. No one under the age of 18 needs to be on any of these problems.

[Kara Swisher]

And we hate to say that, I have to say, I hate to say that, but this is where we are. Okay, Scott, moving on. I wanna start our next story by point, playing a prediction you made just last week.

[Scott Galloway]

My prediction is OpenAI Sora social media app will be shut down soon.

[Kara Swisher]

Oh, Sora. What do you know? You know something.

[Scott Galloway]

No, I don't. I've done no original reporting. Trust me.

[Kara Swisher]

Okay, all right.

[Scott Galloway]

Upon its release, Sora came out at number one in the app store and actually got more downloads out of the gates than ChatGPT did. However the parties ended, downloads fell 32% month over month in December and another 45% in January. And some Sora is the little engine that didn't. And also users continue to drop like flies.

[Kara Swisher]

You were right. I still think you had inside information. OpenAI announced this week that it's discontinuing the Sora app. This is the video app they're doing just months after launching it. This reportedly one of several steps the company has taken to refocus the business ahead of its potential ipo. Sam Altman says the SOAR team will now shift to prioritizing longer term bet like robotics. As for the Disney deal they did at the time, if you remember, Scott and I talked about it, a $1 billion investment in OpenAI, which we thought they weren't really going to give them that. And it was just a little experiment that included licensing characters for sora. Disney is out. Disney's out. It was more of a press release than anything out. So talk about this prediction. I'll also note OpenAI is closing in on a deal to raise about $10 billion from investors, bringing its latest funding round haul to more than $120 billion. Jeez of the fucking wheeze. Talk about this. I mean they've had to shift very quickly. I don't know what they're doing in robotics, but they should just focus on their core business. Seems to me. But thoughts on this? What did you know? Come on, tell me the truth.

[Scott Galloway]

Cara, Cara, Cara. I don't enjoy talking about myself or taking credit for what is arguably one of the most prescient predictions of the year in tech now.

[Kara Swisher]

Oh my God, it was so good, Carol. I gotta say, I was like. He was right. Right?

[Scott Galloway]

Damn it, my nipples are hard. Touchdown. Jesus.

[Kara Swisher]

I approve these hard parts.

[Scott Galloway]

I am fucking John Travolta when he was thin and could dance. Yeah, this is a ladies for the people tuning in on the YouTube channel. Watch his shoulders.

[Kara Swisher]

Watch his shoulders.

[Scott Galloway]

Hello. To resist his feudal. Okay, the weirdest thing. That was literally the easiest prediction ever, by the way.

[Kara Swisher]

Why, why did that. Why do you like. When you said it, I was like, why is he talking about that? Like, I get it, but what, what prompted you.

[Scott Galloway]

This goes on a. On a deeper level. This goes to the notion greatness is in the agency of others. I have a data and research team that feeds me with every good idea I ever have. And this, this young man named Dan Shalon. I said I need a prediction for Pivot today. And he wrote SOAR is going to be closed down. And he gave me a bunch of data. So I can't take credit for this. As usual. I take credit for it, but it was my team that, that came out with that prediction.

[Kara Swisher]

He just saw the downloads because a lot of apps go up and down, right? And many like took forever for meta to really, really kill off metaphors.

[Scott Galloway]

Okay. OpenAI didn't shut down Sora. Anthropic did.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah.

[Scott Galloway]

Of all the incremental or new dollars being won by AI companies in the enterprise market, it used to be 60% of new dollars being spent on AI from the enterprise were going to OpenAI. It's dropped to 30 cents on the dollar. And Anthropic has. Has screamed a 70 cents on the incremental dollar being spent by the enterprise on AI. Why? Because see above. Biggest commercial opportunity in history. Say no to the Trump administration. And also, to be fair, Anthropic's new products are just outstanding.

[Kara Swisher]

They are.

[Scott Galloway]

They have more momentum right now than any company in the world.

[Kara Swisher]

They're better. They're better. It's like when you were using browsers, I remember using Explorer and then Netscape and then, then Explorer was better. But then it was like that. You're like, oh, that's like Google. There was a lot of search engine. And then it was like, oh, this is better, this is better.

[Scott Galloway]

And to OpenAI's credit and Sam's credit and the board's credit, they've said, okay, the best business strategy when you're starting to wobble, quite frankly, is focus moved fast.

[Kara Swisher]

I would agree.

[Scott Galloway]

Focus. Okay, folks. And by the way, my. It doesn't end with Sora, folks, in terms of shit that's about to be closed down. And that's going to be my prediction at the end of the show. But you knew they were going to have to focus. You knew this product wasn't working. It was hemorrhaging money. The whole visual space around AI just hasn't panned out the way people had hoped.

[Kara Swisher]

Slop. It's slop.

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah. It's just not. It's so interesting. The one couple of good things just was. One of the most interesting things about Amazon is it started in books. Books and books has probably been the least disrupted industry it's gone into. The book publishing industry, although it's been consolidated, is actually still pretty strong. Big advances. Agents are still making money. Independent booksellers are actually making a bit of a comeback anyways. But what's so interesting I find about. If you'd said, what's going to happen to designers? 24 months ago, you would have said, oh, like customer service and mediocre lawyers. They're just going to get cleared out by Sora. And I feel like, forget Google's one. And what's interesting is, as a percentage of the employee base, the number of designers has actually gone up at tech companies because it's the coding that is Being commoditized. But the front end human faced UI design, really compelling. Is now the point of differentiation. But because these things, this AI I've played with this stuff, it's just not very good.

[Kara Swisher]

It's not good. You know, the only thing I like is when they show they like do all these, like, they have celebrities, like they did a Game of Thrones in high school. Some of it's fun, but it's sort of like for a minute and then you're like, okay, now I want to look at something real. I think the human eye, it's the metaverse.

[Scott Galloway]

It exhausts you.

[Kara Swisher]

It is. The human eye is like, not. So I don't think you get used to it either. Everyone's like, oh, kids will get used to it. I'm like, it's ruined.

[Scott Galloway]

Animal videos.

[Kara Swisher]

I don't think so. Yeah, animal videos are pretty good.

[Scott Galloway]

Remember how amazing animal videos were? Animal videos. Videos were amazing because now they have them do. When you saw a narwhal or a beluga whale retrieving a nerf football from adventurers or scientists in the Antarctic or wherever the fuck that was, you're like, this is an incredible moment. And now I see it and go, is it fucking AI?

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, exactly.

[Scott Galloway]

Because if it is AI, I don't care. It's not real. I don't.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, I know. They make weird. I agree, I agree. And that's. It just. It's not satisfying in a way that real is, I have to say. And I do think the human eye could. It's just years ago, when I was at the MIT Media lab, when they were having problems with robotics that talk to you, you know, on a screen, and it was always the eyes. There's something wrong with the eyes. And humans perceive it immediately.

[Scott Galloway]

Lips, the voice. I'm telling you, though, if AI starts producing cute, cute pictures of babies seeing or hearing for the first time, I'm out. I'm logging off of every platform.

[Kara Swisher]

I would agree.

[Scott Galloway]

Anyway, that has to be real. Those things change my day. Those things are my mood lifter.

[Kara Swisher]

Amazing prediction. Once again, you have triumphed. Anyway. All right, Scott, let's go on a quick break. When we come back, we'll talk about the return of the Amazon phone.

[Scott Galloway]

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[Kara Swisher]

Scott we're back with more news. Amazon is reportedly getting back into the phone business, working on a new device internally known as. Oh my good God, the Transformer, according to Reuters. What a bunch of idiots they are. This would potentially be an AI driven phone that syncs with Alexa and could eliminate the need for traditional apps. Oh sure, why not? Details are slim, there's no clear timeline or pricing, and sources say the project could be scrap, priorities or finances change. That's a lot of maybes, but let's not forget Amazon's last phone foray. I have not forgotten gotten it since I wrote about it. Creation and decline. The Fire phone which launched in 2014 and quickly flopped leading to $170 million. Write down and I remember getting sent it. I was like it's like the home, the Facebook home. I kept getting sent these things. I'm like what is this? And like I'm calling Steve Jobs immediately because I need to talk to someone who knows how to make these things. Why would Amazon have a phone? I want you to give me the argument why it's a good idea despite their and I think people fail at things and they come back, but I don't feel like Amazon is my device place. I think they got knocked over in the audible space. I think they got knocked over in the reader space. I mean it's still a business but it's not on fire. It got knocked out by the iPad in a lot of ways. Any thoughts on the phone from Amazon and Why give me the argument?

[Scott Galloway]

Well, the argument could be that it becomes a new piece of the flywheel around Amazon prime and that is if you're an Amazon prime plus member, you get a very competent phone that perhaps has even better bandwidth because Project Kuiper starts to pay off and they have satellite based connectivity. So what this is is potentially, I would imagine in the conference rooms where Amazon Strategy Group, who are some incredibly bright people, are saying, yeah, they need a thing. Well, what if, why don't we go after Android and that is we can offer people, oh okay, we can offer people an unbelievable phone for free as part of their Amazon prime membership and then say and get off of AT&T and we'll wrap it all into the greatest loyalty program in history, which is Amazon Prime.

[Kara Swisher]

It is indeed.

[Scott Galloway]

So I think there's a really solid argument. The problem is this all works on a whiteboard and then people hold these phones, the Facebook phone, the Amazon Fire and they go, I don't like it.

[Kara Swisher]

The Microsoft phones.

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah, all the hands. And by the way, just a shout out. A colleague of mine who teaches brand strategy at another university called me and said, saying that Apple shouldn't go into a lower priced computer is all wrong. And he said my views on it were all fucked up and I just want to give him his props. He said that look at all the luxury car brands. They were all shitposted for going into lower end models and it's expanded their share. And I thought that was a really good point.

[Kara Swisher]

If they're going to give people a really good version of it and then you have to buy the shitty Dell version.

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah, well all the Porsche purists said they should never launch an suv. They did. It sells more than any other car in the Porsche lineup. And also Mercedes has an A class in Europe. They have, what is it, not the E, the C class. That's a fair argument.

[Kara Swisher]

Well, if they don't do it too much. Right, you can't do it too much. You have to do it just for

[Scott Galloway]

the BMW has the three, the two, the one. Anyways, I just want to acknowledge the point because when he called me and told me this, I'm like, okay, all

[Kara Swisher]

right, so this is a good Android. Now I see.

[Scott Galloway]

Thank you, Android. This could be, in my opinion the biggest increase in shareholder value that's fallow is a function of the friction between silos at different companies. The new CEO at Disney should have something called Disney and you get Disney videos, you get free merchandise, you get the princess experience. And most importantly, when you come to the park works. It's on only Disney plus members days where there are no lines. And it would be the ultimate loyalty program. And Amazon, if they added telco and a device into Amazon Prime, I think theoretically it's worth, you know, it's worth a couple billion dollars to investigate.

[Kara Swisher]

They don't do that. They don't do that often. You're right. They just like here you go free, here's. It's like a, it's like a club. And you would do that with Amazon because they do deliver really well.

[Scott Galloway]

The thing they do, they're talking about autonomous.

[Kara Swisher]

The core stuff they do, they do really well.

[Scott Galloway]

But preloaded free Amazon Music, free Amazon Zoox or whatever their autonomous is, those are cool.

[Kara Swisher]

Zoox is cool.

[Scott Galloway]

And just say, okay folks, we're going to take care of you. Amazon is arguably the most trusted brand in the world right now.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, Kuiper they could offer that for

[Scott Galloway]

and they say, all right, you don't need to trust us when you're in front of the TV screen or the computer screen. You should trust us as much when you're in front of the the CEO,

[Kara Swisher]

the one person running at division. I'm supposed to meet with him. Anyway, one more quick break. We'll be back for predictions. Chronic migraine is 15 or more headache days a month, each lasting four hours or more. Botox Onobotulinum toxin A prevents headaches in adults with chronic migraine before they start. It's not for those with 14 or fewer headache days a month. It Prevents on average 189 headache days a month versus 6 to 7 for placebo.

[Scott Galloway]

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[Kara Swisher]

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[Scott Galloway]

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[Kara Swisher]

Okay, Scott, let's hear a prediction. I'm say very quickly, just so you know, at the time of this taping, SpaceX is aiming to file its IPO within a week after. And I predict I will not be asked on the board. As you noted at the beginning, I

[Scott Galloway]

predict that people literally don't. If I was your financial account, your wealth advisor, and I kind of have been for the last few years.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, you have.

[Scott Galloway]

But if I gotten a hold of you 10 or 15 years ago, I would have been like, tone down the anti musk, anti big tech thing and we're going to make hundreds of millions of dollars on boards.

[Kara Swisher]

I know, I know I can't do it. I just said as a Joe player, I wasn't a terrible person. I can't, I can't help myself. That was a joke.

[Scott Galloway]

You know when you text me mean things at 2 in the morning, it's not a good idea. And you can't help yourself. You literally can't.

[Kara Swisher]

I mean, some of them are very good.

[Scott Galloway]

You can't help yourself. I get it.

[Kara Swisher]

I can't, I can't.

[Scott Galloway]

I get it. I know I shouldn't drink as much as I do.

[Kara Swisher]

By the way, speaking of, I was right about these people. I was right. Anyway, your prediction, please.

[Scott Galloway]

Okay, so what do we have here? OpenAI is in a, a five car alarm right now. In the last six months they have. Oh, and by the way, have you seen the deals of this financing? To top off the round with, I think it's TPG. They are guaranteeing a 17.5% return.

[Kara Swisher]

What?

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah, they're guaranteeing to top up the round in private equity. The deal is. The deal is along the lines of the following. It kind of makes industrial sense, but. But it's more of these circular related party deals. They're saying to these private equity firms, if you invest and top up my round, I'll guarantee you a 17.5% return. Now the idea is it makes kind of industrial logic because all of these firms have a massive portfolio company of firms which likely means they're going to encourage these firms to adopt it at an enterprise level level OpenAI products. So OpenAI goes immediately we get eat

[Kara Swisher]

the dog food is what you're saying.

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah, we get industrial scale here and because we're going public and Sam's bankers have probably said distinct to the problems you're going to get X valuation, hundreds of billions or even possibly trillion dollar plus valuation. So he said to the private equity guys, I guarantee you a 17.5% return on your money. The problem is a guarantee at the top the of. Of the kind of the capital stack means that the people underneath them, the investors might get squeezed out if they have the first, you know, if, if a decent amount of returns has to go to the top. But it is more of this kind of what I'll call shell game. And as long as things keep increasing it's fine. But this is the kind of thing that could absolutely brushed or trickled or if they don't go.

[Kara Swisher]

That sounds like people like you Scott. That's not. That's like a let me pay you to be my friend.

[Scott Galloway]

Well this is.

[Kara Swisher]

Is don't like it.

[Scott Galloway]

It's a really. That's the most interesting component of the deal is a you never offer. I have never seen. It's a preferred return that aggregates and would you invest then I would want for OpenAI I feel that what I would want to do is the following of just being purely capitalist. I'd want allocation in the IPO because Sam is smart and Sam and his bankers we'll say okay, the first trade of this is likely going to be 80 bucks. So let's price it at 50. So we can say we're the best performing IPO of the year.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, we'll do those tricks. That's nothing new.

[Scott Galloway]

It's a once in a lifetime branding event the ipo. So the investment banks have an incentive because they get to buy shares at a discount. They get to give shares to their buddies and institutions at a discount and the firm for a modest dilution, 3 to 5% dilution gets a branding event that they're in the news for the rest of the year as the best performing IPO of the year or great performing IPO of the year. So they leave, quite frankly, SpaceX is

[Kara Swisher]

going to leave the money.

[Scott Galloway]

They leave money on the table and it's yet another transfer of wealth from the lower middle class who don't have access to pre IPO or to the IPO.

[Kara Swisher]

Don't you think SpaceX will leave them in the dust?

[Scott Galloway]

SpaceX in terms of an IPO?

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah. That'll get all stuff done.

[Scott Galloway]

That'll all be about valuation. Because while SpaceX. While SpaceX has the biggest moats in the history of business, as far as I can tell they're talking about a $1.5 trillion valuation on 13 billion or 14 billion in revenue. I mean that's 100 times revenue. So it's all about pricing. But anyway, so where I was headed is the following. It is a five car alarm and Sam and his board are smart. They are focusing. First area of focus source. Laura, we barely knew you, you're gone. The next area of focus, it won't be a headline item, it'll be euthanized slowly. It is IO and that is the six and a half billion dollar acquisition of Jony I've's company to build hardware. This is the Metaverse. On a smaller level, this is Mark Zuckerberg's consensual hallucination. Cause cost Meta shareholders 70 billion. This is going to cost six and a half billion to OpenAI. It was an all stock transaction. But there is no way. If I am on the board and I am Sam Altman and I'm like, okay, playtime's order. I am losing my core business to anthropic. We need to focus that they're going to decide to not play in the traffic of hardware. So there's been delays, technical difficulty, unclear product definition, high cost cost.

[Kara Swisher]

I think I'd buy the Amazon phone first. So that's a bad sign because I

[Scott Galloway]

wouldn't buy the Amazon brutal category. And then if you look at what's going on here, persistent technical problems. All right. Of course, compute constraints always on AI reliability, privacy concerns, interaction without screens. Basically this isn't right now IO or the division of quote unquote OpenAI's hardware products. It's not just about execution risk. It's unsolved product physics.

[Kara Swisher]

I love it.

[Scott Galloway]

And the timeline keeps slipping. I've been tracking this originally.

[Kara Swisher]

Let me give you a piece of advice that I heard a long time ago. Hardware is hard.

[Scott Galloway]

Well, it was originally, get this Kara. It was originally expected around 2026 and now they're saying it's not shipping before 2027. Guess what? It's never gonna ship.

[Kara Swisher]

Oh, all right. There's a prediction right there. All right, we'll see what happens. Anyway, great job on your prediction. I like this new one. And by the way, next week, I just want people to know. Speaking of predictions, Jeffrey Epstein's lawyer and accountant just told Congress they were never interviewed as part of a formal federal investigation. We're going to talk about this next week because we're not going to let Epstein out of the news either. Trump is making all sorts of hand waving in order to pay it, but this to me was a malpractice on the part of federal investigators. Any you know that they were not interviewed as part of a form. I mean, you might talk to the lawyer and accountant. Seems to me they might know a few things. In any case, we'll see where that goes. We're gonna talk about it next week. So I wanna get that back.

[Scott Galloway]

So can I just have one addendum? The cloud and the silver lining of these Democratic wins. What we need a Nancy, a Speaker Pelosi like figure who understands how to tell the children what. Okay, the grownup is here. This is what you need to do. As good as things are for Democrats on a Senate and on a congressional election level, we are about to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. And while no one was looking, we're about to elect a president of the fourth largest economy who's going to be a Republican because of the jungle voting construct in California.

[Kara Swisher]

We'll talk about that Monday. Let's do that.

[Scott Galloway]

We are probably going to elect a Republican unless Democrats get their heads out of their asses. I'm going to do a little.

[Kara Swisher]

I'll do a little. I've been contacted by every one of those Democratic candidates and also Steve Hilton, who I know well, I haven't heard

[Scott Galloway]

from Chad, the sheriff, Gavin Newsom and Chuck Schumer. You need to start promising these Democrats something and getting them out of the race. I literally out of the race.

[Kara Swisher]

They also had to cancel a thing. The whole thing is a fucking mess and it's suicidal. It's suicidal. It's really weird.

[Scott Galloway]

And by the way, Governor News, who I am a huge fan of, if you don't show some backroom dealing here and make sure that the next that your heir apparent isn't a Democrat, it's really gonna hurt your chances of getting the nomination.

[Kara Swisher]

It is. Okay, before we go, I just wanna say my brother Jeff, who is a friend of our pivot, had emergency surgery this week, heart surgery. He had a blocked I don't know what I'm gonna say it wrong, but he had to have a stent put in and it was because he was on Kaiser or something like that and he went on Medicare and the internist said to him, you should check your calcium levels. Turned out he had 80 to 90% blockage. It's called the Widowmaker the issue. And he got it all cleaned out and he's doing great. But one of the things he said for me to tell you is make sure you all check things like that and get a checkup. I just thank goodness that this didn't happen because he would have died of this very suddenly. So I wanted to give him a shout out. In any case, that's the show. But thanks for listening to Pivot. Be sure to like and subscribe to our YouTube channel. We'll be back next next week.

[Scott Galloway]

Today's show was produced by Lara Naiman Zoe Marcus, Taylor Griffin and Brad Sylvester. Bernier Todd engineered this episode. Manola Moreno edited the video. Thanks also to Drew Bros, Misa Vera and Anchalon Nishat Crow as Vox Media's executive producer podcast, make sure to follow Pivot on your favorite podcast platform. Thank you for listening to Pivot from New York Magazine and Vox Media. You can subscribe to the magazine nymag.com pod we'll be back next week for another breakdown of all things tech and business care. Have a great rest of the week. Lifelock how can I help?

[Kara Swisher]

The IRS said I filed my return, but I haven't.

[Scott Galloway]

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[Kara Swisher]

What do I do? My refund though. I'm freaking out.

[Scott Galloway]

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[Kara Swisher]

I'm so relieved. Received no problem.

[Scott Galloway]

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