Minnesota Shootings, No Kings Protests, and Israel-Iran Attacks Escalate

Summary

Pivot Podcast Summary: Episode "Minnesota Shootings, No Kings Protests, and Israel-Iran Attacks Escalate"

Release Date: June 17, 2025
Hosts: Kara Swisher & Scott Galloway
Produced by: New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network

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1. Minnesota Shootings: A Tragedy of Political Violence

Overview:
The episode opens with a heart-wrenching discussion about a recent act of political violence in Minnesota. A 57-year-old man named Vance Bolter was charged with murder after he shot two Minnesota lawmakers and their spouses early Saturday morning. Governor Tim Walz labeled it as "targeted political violence," and authorities are contemplating federal charges.

Key Points:

• Victims:

  • State Representative Melissa Hortman and her husband were killed.
  • State Senator John Hoff and his wife were seriously injured.

• Suspect's Motive:
  Bolter wasn’t merely a random shooter; he had a list of approximately 70 potential targets, including Democratic politicians and abortion providers, indicating a deeply politicized motive.

• Public and Political Reaction:
  Figures like Senator Amy Klobuchar mourn the loss, emphasizing Hortman's dedication to her constituents and her involvement in significant legislation, such as free school lunches and paid family leave.

Notable Quotes:

• Scott Galloway [06:00]: "Representative Melissa Hortman sounds incredible," highlighting her commendable service.
• Scott Galloway [07:27]: "He called them Marxists. Is that right?" Referring to criticism from figures like Mike Lee, dismissing the notion that the far left is responsible for such violence.

Insights:

• The discussion underscores the alarming rise in violent threats and actions against public officials, escalating to unprecedented levels.
• Galloway connects broader societal issues, attributing this rise in political violence to climate change-induced stresses, social media-fueled polarization, and income inequality.

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2. No Kings Protests vs. Trump’s Military Parade

Overview:
The hosts juxtapose the resounding success and creativity of the "No Kings" protests across the United States with the underwhelming turnout of President Trump's recent military parade in Washington, D.C.

Key Points:

• Trump’s Military Parade:

  • Hosted by over 6,000 soldiers and 100 tanks, the parade drew significantly fewer spectators than anticipated, with estimations around 100,000 attendees instead of the expected 200,000.
  • Criticism arises over the parade's lack of genuine public engagement, viewing it as a pompous display overshadowed by stronger civic movements.

• No Kings Protests:

  • Over 5 million participants across 2,000+ cities engaged in the "No Kings" movement, showcasing peaceful yet determined demonstrations.
  • Creative and impactful signage, such as protesters mimicking scenes from The Handmaid’s Tale or displaying humorous yet poignant messages like "If a dictator throws a military parade and no one watches it, did it really happen?".

• Civic Engagement:

  • Galloway highlights that such large-scale, creative protests signify a robust citizenry committed to societal change, marking a shift towards active participation in democracy.

Notable Quotes:

• Kara Swisher [19:41]: "I enjoyed reveling in how stupid and lame this thing was," criticizing the parade's execution.
• Scott Galloway [21:16]: "No Kings looked really fun," praising the effectiveness and spirit of the protests.
• Scott Galloway [25:00]: "If we get to three, there's never been civic activity... where more than three percent of the population shows up there isn't significant change."

Insights:

• The contrasting receptions between the military parade and the protests illustrate a public preference for genuine, grassroots movements over top-down displays of power.
• High participation in "No Kings" suggests a significant awakening and mobilization among citizens, potentially leading to substantial political and social reforms.

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3. Escalation in the Israel-Iran Conflict: Trump's Controversial Role

Overview:
Kara and Scott delve into the escalating tensions between Israel and Iran, with a particular focus on President Trump's involvement amidst the volatile situation.

Key Points:

• Israel’s Preemptive Strikes:
  Israel launched surprise attacks targeting Iranian nuclear and military facilities, eliminating top generals and nuclear scientists. This move has significantly set back Iran’s nuclear capabilities.

• Iran’s Retaliation:
  Iran responded with missile strikes, leading to escalating civilian casualties and a deteriorating security situation in the Middle East.

• Trump’s Position and Actions:

  • Despite not being in office, Trump is depicted as actively commenting on and influencing the situation.
  • The White House denies any U.S. involvement in Israel’s actions, although there are suspicions of covert support.
  • Trump attempted, albeit unsuccessfully, to assassinate Iran’s leader, further worsening tensions.

Notable Quotes:

• Kara Swisher [32:47]: "The Ukrainian army and the IDF are doing the dirty, dangerous work for the West," emphasizing the role of allied forces in managing conflicts.
• Scott Galloway [37:51]: "Everyday in Iran, you got to be thinking, okay, what did I sign up for here?"

Insights:

• The episode underscores the precarious balance of power in the Middle East, highlighting the risks of unilateral military actions.
• The hosts express concerns about unintended consequences stemming from aggressive maneuvers, stressing the need for diplomatic solutions over continued conflict.

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4. Trump and Elon Musk Feud: Implications for SpaceX and Tesla

Overview:
The hosts discuss the escalating feud between former President Donald Trump and entrepreneur Elon Musk, analyzing potential repercussions for Musk’s companies, SpaceX and Tesla.

Key Points:

• Crisis Point:
  The White House has instructed the Defense Department and NASA to review billions in contracts with SpaceX amid the fallout between Trump and Musk.

• Trump’s Threats:
  Trump has openly criticized Musk, threatening severe consequences if Musk continues his dissent. He insinuates potential actions like cutting off subsidies, targeting SpaceX’s contracts, or leveraging IRS power against Musk.

• Musk’s Position:
  Elon Musk has expressed frustration and concern over Trump’s policies and threats, hinting at instability in the relationship and the future of Musk’s business ventures under Trump’s influence.

Notable Quotes:

• Scott Galloway [48:35]: "The White House directed the Defense Department and NASA to gather details on billions in contracts with SpaceX."
• Kara Swisher [53:48]: "This is exactly the time to speak up," urging influential figures to stand against autocratic tendencies.

Insights:

• The confrontation between Trump and Musk symbolizes a broader conflict between political power and entrepreneurial freedom.
• Potential government retraction of SpaceX and Tesla support could have significant implications for the U.S. aerospace and automotive industries, emphasizing the delicate interplay between politics and business.

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5. The Role of Leadership and Civic Engagement in Countering Autocracy

Overview:
Kara and Scott reflect on the necessity of strong, moral leadership and active civic participation to safeguard democracy against rising autocratic tendencies.

Key Points:

• Leadership Vacuum:
  Both hosts lament the lack of emerging leaders capable of unifying diverse political factions and countering autocratic influences, particularly from Trump-era policies.

• Civic Responsibility:
  Emphasizing the importance of ordinary citizens engaging in mass protests and civic activities, they argue that widespread participation is crucial to instigate meaningful policy changes.

• Call to Action:
  Scott references Paul Krugman’s viewpoint on the necessity for mass protests to reclaim democracy, while Kara urges influential individuals, especially wealthy Democrats and CEOs, to use their platforms to advocate for justice and equality.

Notable Quotes:

• Scott Galloway [55:01]: "We don't have someone. And this is out of enormous respect for him," referring to former President Obama’s potential role in leadership.
• Kara Swisher [59:43]: "Gentlemen, grow a fucking pair. This is exactly the time to speak up," directly urging business leaders to take a stand.

Insights:

• The discussion highlights the critical role that both leaders and citizens play in maintaining democratic institutions and opposing autocratic measures.
• By fostering robust civic engagement and moral leadership, society can better resist the divisive and destructive forces of polarization and political violence.

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6. Wins and Fails: Reflecting on Recent Events

Overview:
In the concluding segment, Kara and Scott share their personal "wins and fails," offering a lighter take amidst the heavy topics discussed.

Key Points:

• Personal Wins:

  • Scott praises the Israeli Defense Forces' (IDF) recent actions against Iran as making the world safer.
  • Both commend the "No Kings" protests for their creativity and high civic engagement rates.

• Personal Fails:

  • Scott humorously critiques the movie "Lilo and Stitch," which he initially disliked but later enjoyed despite its box office success.

Notable Quotes:

• Kara Swisher [62:35]: "Look, we're not going to regain the White House with a Democratic Party that is less popular than a party headed by a fascist."
• Scott Galloway [69:43]: "I'm going to order the club sandwich, but go ahead," humorously referencing hotel dining experiences.

Insights:

• The personal anecdotes serve to humanize the hosts and provide a relatable balance to the intense discussions on political turmoil and societal challenges.
• Their reflections emphasize the importance of finding moments of joy and personal achievement amidst broader societal issues.

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Conclusion

In this episode of Pivot, Kara Swisher and Scott Galloway navigate through a tumultuous landscape of political violence, failed displays of power, and escalating international conflicts. They juxtapose the destructive actions of a former president and the contrasting strength of grassroots movements advocating for democracy and peace. The hosts call for robust leadership and active civic engagement, urging both leaders and everyday citizens to take decisive actions to protect democratic values and counter rising autocratic tendencies. Through insightful analysis and poignant discussions, the episode underscores the fragile state of modern democracy and the collective effort required to preserve it.

Final Notable Quote:

• Scott Galloway [74:33]: "Support for Pivot comes from WhatsApp... Visit WhatsApp.com/privacy to learn more," concluding with a nod to secure communications in a polarized era.

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Listeners who missed the episode can gain comprehensive insights into the pressing issues of political violence, civic movements, and international conflicts, all underscored by the persistent call for unity and responsible leadership.

Transcript

[Kara Swisher]

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[Scott Galloway]

Bring the Sabor with Modelo Chiladas, a mouth watering mix of authentic Mexican beer, bold fruit flavors and spices. Bring the heat with Santilla Picante or the citrus burst of Limonizal.

[Kara Swisher]

Modelo Chelada.

[Scott Galloway]

Bring the Sabor drink responsibly. Modelo Chenada flavored beers imported by Crown Imports, Chicago, Illinois. You know it's Cannes. According to my wife who speaks it's can. No, it's not.

[Kara Swisher]

It's Cannes.

[Scott Galloway]

Why is it Cannes but not to the French? That's how you pronounce it, but it's not.

[Kara Swisher]

Okay. Okay. Kara Sweicher.

[Scott Galloway]

Hi everyone, this is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media podcast network. I'm Kara Swisher from France. I'm in France.

[Kara Swisher]

And I'm Scott Galloway. How are you doing? I was worried about you this weekend. Are you doing all right?

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah. Why? Why? Why are you worried about me?

[Kara Swisher]

A lot of stuff. Although, good news, some compensation. When I get worried about you. You know, there's this amazing new antidepressant targeted at lesbians.

[Scott Galloway]

Oh really? Oh no. What is it?

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, yeah, no, I'm sure you've heard of it. It's called Tricoxagon. Try Cox again. Word is. Word is it works for about a day and then continued usage makes you worse than you were previously.

[Scott Galloway]

Oh my God. How do you come up with these? That's not true.

[Kara Swisher]

Trigetta. Tricox again.

[Scott Galloway]

No.

[Kara Swisher]

I have been waiting all weekend to say this joke.

[Scott Galloway]

First of all, it's a terrible joke and many lesbians have never tried that, just so you know. I have, but yes, many have not. But so I was able to make my conscious choice, which was a good one. I think I feel good to this day.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah. Apples, pears, no contest.

[Scott Galloway]

Uh huh. Exactly.

[Kara Swisher]

Or bananas, pears. But shit. I don't know where we go, by the way. Just as a segue here.

[Scott Galloway]

Oh, my God. All right.

[Kara Swisher]

You do not how to spend. You do. We're both in France. We're both literally near each other. We're both doing the exact same thing. You do not know how to spend your money. I do. Look at my hotel room. Look at yours.

[Scott Galloway]

Okay?

[Kara Swisher]

Your place literally looks like a Hampton Inn near the airport where you end up naked and Googling. Can you get chlamydia from a karaoke mic? Look at where you are.

[Scott Galloway]

I am at the very fancy hotel on the Croisette right now. Just so you know, everybody.

[Kara Swisher]

Okay, hold on. Here's Kara. Here's Kara. For the YouTubers. Here's Kara. Who does not know how to spend her money.

[Scott Galloway]

Not my mom.

[Kara Swisher]

Daddy.

[Scott Galloway]

Daddy.

[Kara Swisher]

Daddy. Daddy has an assistant.

[Scott Galloway]

Well, if you put. If you're so worried about me, you could put me up at the hotel where you are anytime.

[Kara Swisher]

You know, I love to shower you. I love to spoil you. You're a hot young woman I'm trying to have sex with. I spoil you all the time.

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah. That's never. Speaking of Tricoxin. That's never happening. Just for the listeners. That's an upsetting and triggering thing. It's never happening.

[Kara Swisher]

Huge disappointment on my end. Anyways, we're in France.

[Scott Galloway]

Explain why we're in France.

[Kara Swisher]

Explain why we're in France. We're at our favorite event. We're at Cannes. We love it here.

[Scott Galloway]

You know, it's con. According to my wife, who speaks French.

[Kara Swisher]

It's Cannes.

[Scott Galloway]

No, it's not.

[Kara Swisher]

It's Cannes.

[Scott Galloway]

You're a hundred. You totally mansplained at me. But it's Cannes.

[Kara Swisher]

I've illuminated you.

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah, okay.

[Kara Swisher]

It's saving you from yourself and your pretentious friend who thinks that if they go can, that means they took French in 11th grade at some overpriced private school. It's Cannes.

[Scott Galloway]

No, my wife speaks French fluently, but go ahead.

[Kara Swisher]

It's Cannes.

[Scott Galloway]

Why is it Cannes but not to the French school?

[Kara Swisher]

That's how you pronounce it.

[Scott Galloway]

But it's not. It's not.

[Kara Swisher]

Okay, okay, Kara Sweitzer. No, no, but anyways, we're here at Cannes. We're doing a bunch of events. We Love it here. Did you just get here? Did you take the ride?

[Scott Galloway]

I just got here. Yes. That's why I'm looking like a little haggard here. Yeah, yeah.

[Kara Swisher]

Kara, I have to carry the.

[Scott Galloway]

I didn't take a red eye. I left at 5 o' clock at whatever time, day it was.

[Kara Swisher]

That's called the worst red eye in the world. That means you get no sleep.

[Scott Galloway]

It was British Airways. It was lovely. And I went through London. Yeah.

[Kara Swisher]

Oh, you got it.

[Scott Galloway]

There's no direct flight from Washington, dc.

[Kara Swisher]

I got to speak to your brother. This is enough. I'm doing an intervention, okay? You need to learn how to take better care of yourself. You need to come Friday. You need to hang out at the pool.

[Scott Galloway]

Oh, now, I can't do that. I can't do that.

[Kara Swisher]

Have a little.

[Scott Galloway]

No, Couldn't bring the kids.

[Kara Swisher]

Do you know how Daddy's getting into the Palais tonight? He's taking a Zodiac. I'm putting on a jacket. I'm crashing Meta beach. And they'll all be freaked out. I'm like, I have a meeting with Sheryl Sandberg.

[Scott Galloway]

Wait, you're coming here? I'm going where you are tonight, supposedly.

[Kara Swisher]

Oh, yeah. To the. What is Cassidy iheart party or something?

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah.

[Kara Swisher]

Is that the cast? Is that iHeart?

[Scott Galloway]

Is that Cassidy Castle party? Yeah. Yeah. They're all having competing parties at your fancy hotel, but go ahead.

[Kara Swisher]

And then I got a Salesforce thing and then a Google thing.

[Scott Galloway]

Wow.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, I got a bunch of stuff going on all because of you.

[Scott Galloway]

Oh, I'm glad. Well, you should fly me here on a private plane. That would be nice for all the money I've got you over the years. It's probably not a big amount. Amount of money, but it's a substantive amount. Anyway, we're in France because we're here shilling advertisers. Correct. We're gonna do a live pivot, which will be fun. I ran into many people on the plane who love pivot and were giving me.

[Kara Swisher]

I love it here. I love the South. I love. I'm warming to French people. I love the food here. It's so nice.

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah.

[Kara Swisher]

Is like a great world leader right now.

[Scott Galloway]

France is spicy life. He's kind of spicy.

[Kara Swisher]

Occupying the space he commands. I like it here.

[Scott Galloway]

Isn't he not here? He's with the G7, right. Is he in Canada?

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, they're in Canada.

[Scott Galloway]

So he's not here.

[Kara Swisher]

France, Canada. Same, same.

[Scott Galloway]

Anyway, we're going to be getting together a lot and we're going to have a good time. Here, we always do. But we've got a lot to get to today. There's actually some very serious things happening besides the rain on Trump's military parade, which was a big. He caught the L train on that one, the no Kings protests, which are actually quite substantive in the United States, and the missile attacks between Israel and Iran. But first, I mean, this story, you know, dominated the headlines this weekend. A Minnesota man has been charged with a murder after two Minnesota lawmakers and their spouses were shot early Saturday morning in their homes in what Minnesota Governor Tim Walls called an act of targeted political violence. Officials are also considering federal charges against the suspect, 57 year old Vance Bolter, who wore a weird mask and pretended he was a cop. State Representative Melissa Hortman, who sounds incredible, and her husband were killed. State Senator John Hoff, his wife were seriously injured. Authorities found a list in Bolter's car naming around 70 potential targets, including Democratic politicians and abortion providers. A 2020 state report lists Bolter as having no party preference, but his roommate says he voted for Trump and was a strong supporter. Elon Musk had his own thoughts, as usual, inserting himself grotesquely into the proceedings of this writing. He's at the far left.

[Kara Swisher]

He called them Marxists. Is that right?

[Scott Galloway]

Yes, Marxists. That was Mike Lee from Utah, who was also a heinous piece of sh. He said the far left is murderously violent in response to an X post about the shootings and other attacks. He's absolutely wrong, this guy.

[Kara Swisher]

I'm sorry. Democratic state senators are murdered and murdered.

[Scott Galloway]

By someone who is very clearly disturbed and also Trump supporter. I want to discuss these shootings, the implications, but first let's listen to Minnesota Senator Amy Klobuchar, who both of us know talk about her friend who she had dinner with the night before she died. Representative Melissa Hortman on Meet the Press.

[Kara Swisher]

We started out together in politics, moms with young kids. And somehow she was able to balance.

[Scott Galloway]

Getting to know every door knock, every.

[Kara Swisher]

House in her district while raising two children. Girl Scout leader she wasshe taught Sunday school.

[Scott Galloway]

And maybe all that juggling made it.

[Kara Swisher]

Easier for her as she worked her.

[Scott Galloway]

Way up in the legislature and became.

[Kara Swisher]

This extraordinary speaker of the House, ushering in everything from free school lunch to.

[Scott Galloway]

Working with the governor and other leaders to do some landmark legislation on paid.

[Kara Swisher]

Family leave to this year working with her Republican counterpart when we pretty much.

[Scott Galloway]

Had a tied legislature to get the budget done. That's Melissa Hortman, my friend. Anyway, she's been quite broken up about it, obviously Violent threats against members of Congress hit a record high last year. I've been told this by very well known people, congressional people, that they've gotten a huge amount of death threats this year, Democratic ones for the second year in a row, according to Capitol Police. There have been other recent incidents in the last few months. There was a killing of two Israeli embassy staffers in D.C. an arson attack on Governor Josh Shapiro's home. We saw obviously, the two Trump assassination attempts last year. One got very close. What do you think about this rhetoric and will it get worse? I mean, I don't know what to say. People are in their homes. It's easy to find people. A lot of the people who are state senators and local politicians do not have the protection that US national people have. But even those people are pretty exposed what has to happen here. Pam Bondi, thank God, made the appropriate response and so did Trump, although light, I would say. So what do you make of what's happening here? You've talked about this. You were talking about civil war obviously recently, but this is something that I guess is not a surprise and yet is horrifying at the same time.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, well, look, there's no getting around it. It's a tragedy for the family. Senseless death, senseless murder. I thought Senator Klobuchar was very statesperson like in her comments. I thought Governor Walz did his best to address the situation in the correct tone. If you think about, I was thinking about climate change and that is we've created a context or atmospheric such that we might have mass migrations, super fires, terrible weather events that hurt the, hurt the poorest. And the two big puffs of carbon into the air that created these atmospherics were the industrialization of China and the consumerization of the car, specifically Americans moving to the suburbs and the embrace of the car. And I think we've created an atmosphere for a lot of political violence and the two puffs of carbon into the air, if you will. I do think social media, which has a profit motive around pitting us against each other, has just created an atmosphere where we're convinced the enemy is within and then polarization at the hands of income inequality. People are just generally angry when they wake up and they feel like they've worked hard and they have medical debt and then social media convinces them that their enemy is their neighbor and so what can be done? This is a multi pronged problem. This talks about access to guns, this talks about mental health, this talks about, you know, the strain of lack of job prospects. This obviously political Political violence. What you hope you get from our leaders is thoughts around bold solutions that decarbonize the atmosphere as opposed to trying to take advantage of the moment and start issuing blame on the other side. Because there's been political violence against both parties. But other than saying we all have an obligation to try and take the temperature down, I do think it's time probably for some sort of. And you've been talking about this for a while, legislation around hate speech that says this rhetoric, this tone when you call someone, when your first reaction is to call these people Marxist. That's not helping.

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah, it's also inaccurate. It's not helping. It's also inaccurate.

[Kara Swisher]

So I'll finish where I started. Your heart goes out to the families of these people who were murdered. And then you hear about this guy's background and he's a murderer. And I trust and hope he's brought to justice. But you, you know, the whole thing is just awful. The whole thing, it just puts. It leaves you with a pit in your stomach.

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah, he sounds like someone who's been drifting, but although not your typical profile of sort of these sort of loner, angry people. He has five kids, very religious, which is no thing against him. Tried to do. Tried to make it like we sort of pretend being a cop. And his business apparently didn't get off the ground. He was working at a funeral home. He was collecting eyeballs for operations for people. He had a series of sort of jobs and he was living in Minneapolis or near Minneapolis, and he lived. His family lived in rural Minnesota, but was living with this. Why this roommate knew him so well. But like struggling. Struggling of someone who's struggling. Obviously had become more and more religious and had become born again, which has nothing to do with this. But he just. He got sort of very politicized around his religion, abortion specifically. And just this is someone you wouldn't necessarily think of cracking. Right. That would do. It reminds me a little bit of the Luigi Mangioni thing, too, who seemed to be in a. That's what it reminded me. I was like, why did this guy.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, but that kid was high school valedictorian. I mean, that was really strange.

[Scott Galloway]

That was really strange. But he was angry and he had a back pain and he had all kinds of things. Again, no excuse, zero explanation. Like you can sort of start to see how this pieces together. But what set him off to say this? I mean, looks like he was going to target some of these no Kings rallies. It looks like what got him was it mental illness, Was it, you know, just what was it, you know, that he was cosplaying a cop and had to do this and, and this woman. Sounds wonderful, did all these astonishing things, helped people enormously. Like one of these wonderful public servants who just was service, service, service, service to other people and brought them all manner of things, protecting kids from gun violence, free lunch, abortion access, et cetera. So it's just, I just, I really would like to, this is, it's sickening. It's sickening because it's not, I don't, maybe he was mentally ill, I don't know. I don't know. But it seems like everybody's mentally ill now in that regard. And not your classic loner gunman kind of thing. I mean, and, you know, his, his, he's got five kids. That, to take that step is really, I, I, I don't even, I don't even, I couldn't even begin to understand it. It's, it's, it is this rhetoric. It's the polarization. It' getting too political. Like, right, the Southern Baptists deciding they're going after gay marriage now, what is wrong with them? Like, you know, you thought that was sort of settled and it's not, obviously, but creating levels of anger and ways that were different rather than ways that were same. I don't know. It's just sickening. And I am scared for a lot of people, I have to say. I'm very scared for, and I've been told by a number of politicians that the death threats have gone up substantively for them.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, for me, I mean, it's a tough one, but we don't have a monopoly on mental illness. We do have a little bit of a monopoly for a nation as prosperous as us around income inequality and polarization. But I still think almost all of this comes down to easy access to guns. It just, you know, when, when there's a mentally ill guy who goes on a rampage in Britain, he stabs two people and one of them survives.

[Scott Galloway]

You know, although in Austria they just had an attack, but go had a school attack.

[Kara Swisher]

But just the prevalence of this is just awful all the way around. It's very hard to find a single cause. But again, I think the politicians on both sides, it's just so upsetting when you see people try and politicize it and use it as fodder to blame the other side.

[Scott Galloway]

Musk and Mike Lee were repulsive. Were repulsive. Even Trump knew not to. Right. He may do it in the coming days, but both Mike Lee and Elon Musk just reacted in exactly the way you're not supposed to, as always, because they're, you know, and of course, look at me, you know, in a situation that has nothing to do with either of them. Should keep their mouth shut. That's what they should do. But anyway, our heart goes out to their. This, these families. And there's two people recovering, supposedly the other people who were shot, John Hoffman and his wife. But to come to people's homes and do this is just a height of depravity. I don't know what else to say. Anyway, speaking of weirdnesses, being in Washington this weekend for this military parade was a hot. I have to say, this town was empty. It really was. He had his birthday military parade, Trump did, which event included over 6,000 soldiers and 100 tangs reported far less than the expected 200,000 attendees. I would be surprised if there were 100,000 there. It was a ghost town. It was really interesting. The parade was fine, sponsored by several brands with close ties to the President, including Palantir and Coinbase, meaning pay per play. The whole thing was overshadowed by over 5 million people attending over 2000 no Kings protests around the country, which looked like a lot of fun. They seemed largely peaceful, I think, and quite festive almost, and also determined, which was interesting. I don't know if it makes a difference. Let's read off some fun signs that people had. If a dictator throws a military parade and no one watches it, did it really happen? Off with his toupee. If Kamala were president, we'd be at brunch. Donnie the quicker fucker upper. We're all the couch now. You sucked in Home Alone too. There were tons of them. One was a picture of Melania Trump dressed in the Handmaid's Tale of Taco, which I thought was very funny. Here's the one thing. There was a piece by Max Booth that got a little negative attention, I think was about the military looked. Looked good. It looked like they, you know, we should honor these people that serve. But doing it at the behest of Trump and making it a pathetic kind of parade was, you know, there was some really interesting revolutionary stuff. It's the 250th anniversary of the army, which was, you know, founded to. By. At the beginning of our country at the same time. And so they do deserve, you know, attention and being treated with respect and everything else. There were all kinds of sort of conspiracy theories all over the place, including that they were marching, they weren't marching correctly as a protest, which Was odd. I have to say, I did notice that. I just don't think there were a lot of people there. I don't know if people. People might have cheered if there were a lot of people, but it was empty as could be, which was just interesting. I thought there'd be more people there. Anyway. Your thoughts?

[Kara Swisher]

I think it's like when I've heard of friends getting a bar of Bob Mitzvah late in life and like, no one, everyone shows up and pretends this isn't strange. I just. Or, you know, they get a Christmas. Or my favorite that I've never been to, which says, I'm banging my assistant. Recommitment ceremony. Those are my favorite. I gotta be honest, I enjoy. I thought it was so fucking alarming. I just enjoyed reveling in how stupid and lame this thing was. And there's no way he didn't know it. I turned on the TV just to see some footage, and actually I thought to myself, you know, actually, it looks pretty cool. And I realized I was watching the Mexican Independence Day parade.

[Scott Galloway]

Oh, wow.

[Kara Swisher]

Like, I love. When I was in San Francisco, which is the most liberal city in the world, the whole place loved fleet Week. And F15s used to buzz like planes, and you go and you kind of just look up, and regardless of your political affiliation, you think, the Blue Angels.

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah, yeah.

[Kara Swisher]

You think, wow, it's pretty cool to be American. And I like the fact that if anyone fucks with us, they gotta deal with these guys.

[Scott Galloway]

Fleet Week is fun in San Francisco. You're right. It really is.

[Kara Swisher]

Ye. And it's great. And it's a show off of military hardware, but doing it, you know, the whole thing, you know, I gotta be honest, I enjoyed it because it was just so sad for the President.

[Scott Galloway]

The Russian state. The Russian state media was laughing at Trump's prank. They're like, they don't know how to throw it, but they do. The Soviets, no, my favorite was the no kings ones looked really fun. I didn't go to any, but they looked really fun. Especially the smaller cities. They looked like kind of festive and everything. There was tons and tons and tons of them.

[Kara Swisher]

Really well done.

[Scott Galloway]

That was the contrast. I think that's what no kings did correctly, from a marketing point of view. And the other. The whole no kings with people on the beach in San Francisco, in Ocean beach, spelling out no kings, but with bodies, which was cool. And they had a drone shot. Very creative, very fun. And again, the smaller cities was very moving. I know. And all these people were really Coming out, it was from a marketing point of view, I don't know. Scott, thoughts?

[Kara Swisher]

You're exactly right. Not only were they really successful, but the key was the contrast. Philadelphia had the biggest turnout. Seattle, San Diego, of all places. And they were creative. It looked like a good time. And generally speaking, there are three firewalls between what has traditionally been a, you know, a constitutional democracy and the things we've come to, I think take for granted in this. What I think is this slow, increasingly fast burn to fascism. And the first is the courts. And I would argue the courts are mostly holding. There's been some controversial decisions down from the Supreme Court because they're not used to a criminal president. But most of the, most of the issues that have been presented before the court, the court says, no, we can't do this. Unfortunately, he can move faster than the courts and a lot of the damage can't be undone. The second buffer is the media. And I think, you know, I'm mixed on the media. I think it's doing its level best. I think it's the lack of coverage around this multibillion dollar crypto scam has been very frustrating for me. But they are unafraid. I do think there's been good coverage of a lot of, especially around the immigration issue and the illegal deportation of people.

[Scott Galloway]

I thought they were trying to be too fair on this thing. This was a bust of parade. It just was. There was no other way around.

[Kara Swisher]

That's called the New York Times, the self hating New York Times. They can't ever have moral clarity around anything.

[Scott Galloway]

I know, but it was kind of like, like, come on. It was, you know, CNBC did it too. I was like, I know you're trying really hard, but this wasn't good. I mean, even Marco Rubio looked bored.

[Kara Swisher]

Well, CNBC has anchors that speak. They tuck in the president every night. But the contrast from a marketing standpoint, it was Coke versus Pepsi. And Pepsi just clean Coke's clock. Because the moment they went from one image to the other, it was like Trump sitting there. Like, supposedly as a high schooler, the best thing you can do to establish social capital is to throw a rock in parts. You can be a near cool kid and elevate yourself to cooldom by throwing an amazing party when your parents are out of town where they show up and the garage is on fire and the dog is pregnant, right? Have like a fucking crazy party. And this was, okay, I have more money, I'm more powerful. And I threw just the lamest party. And then the juniors the kids who aren't as cool had impromptu parties all over, and they were much more fun and they were much bigger and everybody showed up. But where I was headed was the third firewall here is citizenry and citizenship. And I do think that Americans have become somewhat fat and happy and that a lot of us take for granted the incredible prosperity and rights that we have inherited, many of us have not earned. And to see citizens take their weekend day from their kids, from relaxation, from making more money, and go march with several hundred thousand of their fellow citizens, it's really inspiring. And there's some data on this, actually. I guess about 1.8% of Americans turned out. And there's actual research that shows if you get to three, there's never been civic activity or protests where more than three or more percent or more of the population shows up where there isn't significant change around the policies there. And so we're getting close.

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah. You know, Paul Krugman wrote an interesting piece. He went to one of the rallies and it was tit Trump's parade flop, no Kings was a hit. Right now, images largely determine the outcome. And he wrote something he goes. Trumpists, however, haven't fully consolidated their hold. America steals a chance of reclaiming itself from the grip of brazen corruption, mindless destruction, and contempt for both the rule of law and for our erstwhile allies. We don't have to become country bullied into submission, but we're teetering on the edge. One of the most important ways we can step back from that edge is for ordinary Americans to engage in mass protests. And I think he's right. I think it's, I think it's just not just that, because crowd size does matter. I mean, we all joked about Trump saying that he had a bigger initial inauguration than Barack Obama, which he didn't. But it has the feel of a loser to it. And I think it sort of makes people feel more bold if that's the case. But it doesn't mean that difficult times aren't ahead because these people aren't going away. I mean, they're bringing their guns, they're bringing their, like they're bringing their threats and everything else. But it is important. You know, as several politicians like Pritzker and others have saying, this is what has to happen. And there is a weariness that comes with this kind of thing. But it was, I think you have that juxtaposition of this bad parade and this enthusiastic it gives him. It affects his image, I think, of being old and a loser kind of thing. And I think that does stick with people. Maybe not.

[Kara Swisher]

There is a correlation between people's ability to bring signs to any public place and have free speech. And at the same time, there's an inverse correlation. The nations that are more prone and opt to have tanks and military hardware on public streets, generally speaking, have a citizenry that has few rights. And so you're just signaling to the world an erosion in individual rights of its citizenry. The more often you have tanks on boulevards, there are laws built in a couple hundred years old. That said, for example, the military can't be weaponized to arrest citizens. The whole point is our military, we're not even very good. Our fine young men and women aren't very good at marching. Why? Because they train to kill people and defend. Defend our shores as opposed to.

[Scott Galloway]

Oh, they are good at marching. That's what several army people were like. That was on purpose, just so you know.

[Kara Swisher]

And I was like, okay, I would rather they be good at killing bad guys than practicing marching all the time in Pyongyang. It's just that that's. That's not an indication. Your ability to throw on a parade and march by Dear Leader in unison is not an accurate reflection of the strength and fighting power. And again, when you see your tanks on Wilshire boulevard or on Fifth Avenue or marching up Northwest 17th or whatever the street is, that's a bad sign. You're not supposed to have that. That's the sign of a society where the leader is either not focused on the well being, the psychological and material well being of the citizens and has decided to in some way try and intimidate the local populace. Like, no one's. No one's scared of that.

[Scott Galloway]

No one was scared of that. I'll tell you the best part to this was sort of the old costumes, the old tanks, the old weaponry, the vintage stuff was interesting and so were the outfits, even the revolutionary ones. And then I like the feats of strength on the. Everyone was making fun of this. I'm like, what do you care if they're doing feats of. You know, they were hanging off of things, doing a lot of health stuff. I thought that was fine. I know Pete Hegseth loves that stuff. And it's the only part that I think was cool. Well, anyway, Trump, you're a loser. And Elon, whatever. Elon even tweeted a no kings thing. It was interesting. We'll get to that in a second, actually. Okay, Scott, let's go on a quick break. And when we come back. Trump tries to make peace between Israel and Iran oh dear. Support for Pivot comes from LinkedIn. From talking about sports, discussing the latest movies, everyone is looking for a real connection to the people around them them. But it's not just person to person, it's the same connection that's needed in business. And it can be the hardest part about B2B marketing finding the right people, making the right connections. But instead of spending hours and hours scavenging social media feeds, you can just tap LinkedIn ads to reach the right professionals. According to LinkedIn, they have grown to a network of over 1 billion professionals, making it stand apart from other ad buys. You can target your buyers by job title, industry, company role, seniority, skills and company company revenue, giving you all the professionals you need to reach in one place. So you can stop wasting budget on the wrong audience and start targeting the right professionals only on LinkedIn ads. LinkedIn will even give you a hundred dollar credit on your next campaign, so you can try it for yourself. Just go to LinkedIn.com pivotpod that's LinkedIn.com pivotpod Terms and conditions apply only on LinkedIn ads. Support for Pivot comes from Deleteme Some of the most important things in your life. You can't even see things like your data, and even though you can't hold it, it's worth a lot, especially to data brokers who make a profit off it as a commodity. Deleteme is looking to protect it. Deleteme makes it easy, quick and safe to remove your personal data online at a time when surveillance and data breaches are common enough to make everyone vulnerable. They send you regular personalized privacy reports towards showing what information they found, where they found it, and what they removed. I've actually been using Delete Me for a while now and I have to say I am constantly surprised by how much personal information of mine is out there. I am very cognizant of my privacy and yet it's still out there like weeds like mold. I have not had my information stolen. I've had other people, including people in my family. It's really difficult to get it back. To put it simply, Delete Me does all the hard work of wiping out you and your family's personal information from data broker sites. You can take control of your data and keep your private life private by signing up for Deleteme now at a special discount to our listeners today. Get 20% off your Delete Me plan when you go to JoinDeleteMe.com pivot and use the Promo code Pivot at checkout. The only way to get 20% off is to go to JoinDeleteMe.com pivot and enter code pivot at checkout. That's JoinDeleteMe.com pivot CodePivot.

[Kara Swisher]

Support for the show comes from ZBiotics. For many of us, Friday night is a time to unwind with a drink or two. But let's be honest, bouncing back the next morning isn't always easy. Zebiotics is here to help you wake up feeling better, according to Zebiotics. Here's how it works. Zebiotics Pre Alcohol Probiotic drink is the world's first genetically engineered probiotic. They say it was invented by PhD scientists to tackle rough mornings after drinking. According to the company, when you drink, alcohol gets converted into a toxic byproduct in the gut. And they say it's a buildup of this byproduct, not dehydration. That's to blame for rough days after drinking ZBiotics. Pre alcohol produces an enzyme to break this byproduct down. Just remember to make pre alcohol your first drink of the night. Drink responsibly and you'll feel your best tomorrow. So this is the part where I'm supposed to give a personal experience or an anecdote. I am trying to reduce the amount of drinking I'm doing as I get older, but I still love to drink. And I have tried Zebiotics and I now use it regularly. Go to go to zbiotics.com pivot to learn more and get 15% off your first order when you use Pivot at checkout. Zebiotics is backed with a 100% money back guarantee, so if you're unsatisfied for any reason, they'll refund your money, no questions asked. Remember to head to zebiotics.com pivot and use the code pivot at checkout for 15% off.

[Scott Galloway]

Scott, we're back. President Trump is urging Israel and Iran to make peace, saying the two countries should make a deal and will make a deal. The longstanding conflict between the two countries escalated late last week with Israel's surprise attack on Iran, although Trump signaled it pretty clearly. The attack targeted Iranian nuclear and military facilities, killing top generals and nuclear scientists. Iran retaliated, and missile strikes from both sides have continued force strike days, rising civilian casualties. The White House is denying any US Involvement in Israel's actions, though Trump reportedly nixed a plan to kill Iran's leader over the weekend. He's also warning that Iran will face the full strength of might of the United States US Armed Forces if the US Is attacked in any way. Oh, God, this feels like the Gulf again. I don't know. But what have you been thinking over the past few days and what do you think about his role in all this? A lot of people feel that it was stopping these Iranian centrifuges from spinning up was a very good idea. At the same time, Trump seems way past his depth and there's a fight within MAGA over this. Marjorie Taylor Greene or another don't think we should be there at all. So it's also politically problematic for him.

[Kara Swisher]

Well, obviously, I think a lot about this. I think the Ukrainian army and the IDF are doing the dirty, dangerous work for the West. I think of the presidency and leadership is around capital allocation. And I think there's few things that have shown a greater return than backing the Ukrainian army and also the intelligence and military support of the idf. America has four enemies or perceived enemies. China, Iran, North Korea and Russia. I would argue China's actually not an enemy, they're a competitor. And if a competitor is doing really well and getting in striking distance of America, America tends to think of them as an enemy, which I think is a little bit unfair, but that's another talk show. But three of the four have a nuclear weapon, and I just don't think there's any getting around it. I think the west, the US and especially Israel, our closest ally in the Gulf and in my view, the only ally we can count on, given it's a democracy and shares our values. If shit gets real over there, we are just better off if Iran does not have a nuclear weapon. And the Atomic International Agency just last week issued a statement and its 35 member nations, many of whom are not pro Israel, saying that Iran was barreling towards a nuclear weapon and had engaged in massive deception and that Biden had tried really hard through diplomacy to take them back or get them to step back from the development of a nuclear bomb. I think Trump trashing The agreement in 17 probably didn't help, but it was clear, despite the bluster and Trump thinking he's a deal maker, they were barreling towards a nuclear bomb. And Israel, in what again is what will go down as this remarkable military operation, took out what is the equivalent of the Joint Chief's staff via the head of the army, killed them all within minutes of each other. And then, because essentially the Iranian air defenses have been totally obliterated, Israel not only controls the skies, but what became clear here, they control the ground. And that is the Mossad has so deeply penetrated the intelligence arm of the IRGC that everyone is vulnerable. And just as interesting as who they kill is who they didn't kill. They didn't take out any political leadership. But this is essentially, in my view, taken back Iran a year, two years, hopefully three years from nuclear capabilities or nuclear bomb capabilities, which I just think it's hard to argue that that's a bad thing. Now, having said that. Having said that, war in the Middle east rarely turns out as you had hoped. It's just. I mean, there is a real risk here. Anytime there is war, war in the Middle east, this wasn't a military operation. I do think these two nations are at war right now. I also want to acknowledge that there is a legitimate concern that this is a wag the tail situation where Netanyahu, similar to Trump, is running to stay out of prison. And unfortunately, and this is tragic, if we had better leadership in the White House and a president who didn't see his ability to get reelected based on a war footing, that Trump wouldn't be taking planes from Qatar, he'd be putting pressure on Qatar to put pressure on Hamas, and that Netanyahu would be more sincere about trying to end the ongoing, let's be honest, death and destruction in Gaza. So this is. I mean, this is a complicated situation, but if you look at the idf, they took more terrorists off our most wanted list in six weeks than we had done in 20 years. And Iran not having a nuclear bomb, I just fail to see how that is anything good. Anything but good. Anything but good for the West. So quite frankly, again, I'll finish where I started. I believe the IDF and the Ukrainian army are doing the West's dirty and dangerous work and should be celebrated for it.

[Scott Galloway]

Well, that may be, but now what happens? And I think it's really interesting that there's a real shift in the MAGA coalition in terms of America First. And of course, Trump said America first is whatever I say it is because I invented it, which he didn't, of course, but it's a question of what now and how do you stop it? I think a lot of people I admire, who I pay attention to, are like, okay, it's the right thing to do, but you don't know the right way to stop it. Right. Because they're in their fourth day of heavy strikes and the attacks are not going down, they're going up. Right. And this is obviously a volatile area, open to any kind of continued fighting in the Mideast is something that cannot happen. And I think it's, you know, especially, especially with. It's in Netanyahu's interest. I think Netanyahu has other ideas besides peace. Right. He doesn't want peace.

[Kara Swisher]

Legitimate concern.

[Scott Galloway]

So this is like, I get that you want to take out these generals. I get that you want to take this. The fact that we managed to get him not to kill the main leader is something, I guess. But it just seems like any number of bad things could happen here. And that's Trump is not the president you want in this situation. Right. You may agree with him, but boy, is he nuts. And so I think that's the problem we have here. And a lot of the smart thinkers are like, good but good but kind of thing.

[Kara Swisher]

This is a bad decision between bad decisions. But you described it. It distills down to one fulcrum or one decision. And that is the risk of going to war against Iran is a real risk. There's going to be unintended consequences. Here the calculus is the following. Are those risks outweighed by the risks of Iran being closer to a nuclear war weapon? And I would argue that the former risks are the ones worth taking. And I do believe that, unlike a lot of people in the Republican Party and some in the far left, I do believe there is a bad peace, and I believe there are good wars. And it was clear a lot of nonpartisan agencies were saying that Iran was engaged in deception and moving closer and closer to a nuclear weapon. And while their air defenses were down, they had have been pretty, you know, there really hasn't been a lot of civilian casualties in Iran. And again, they didn't go after the political leadership. So I think what they're saying is, okay, if you continue to have a clock in the middle of Tehran that's counting down to our destruction and saying what the equivalent of saying Amen in the US Is. Death to Israel is a common, common phrase at the end of every sentence that we are going to take preemptive action against you. And what I don't know what is interesting here is whether or not Israel said to the U.S. we're doing this. We feel that this is too big a risk to ignore, or they were totally coordinated with the US who was claiming they were supposed to have talks today and whether it was a coordinated head fake and the US engaged in it, because without US at least cooperation, the Israeli Air Force is flying F15s and I think it's F35s, they can't even repair them. If the US were to decide to not support Israel. So some level of cooperation is probably taking place here, especially around propaganda around Iran was caught totally flat footed. They thought they were about to head into negotiations on Sunday.

[Scott Galloway]

True, but they made their point. Right. And so one, I'm sorry, who's made the point? Israel, in terms of doing this. So one of the things there's no, it's called, I guess it's called dangerous. Deconflictation is a word, but both de. Escalation, it's like that, but it's deconfliction. Deconfliction, I guess. And obviously, apparently one of the key sites, the enrichment site is buried deep underground. And so it's one of these things that might be impossible to do. You can cause it damage or slow it down, et cetera, et cetera. I mean, I don't know a lot, this is not my area of expertise. But, but the thing is it depends on President Trump again, because we have the ability to help them do that, to really destroy the nuclear bombs that are being made there. And whether the United States intervenes is, I think a big decision and has huge consequences. Anyway, he probably wants to avoid direct crime since his whole thing was let's not get the wars everywhere. And now with these he's had, he's been negotiating with Iran, by the way. So it's all come down to Trump and I'm like, oh, the military parade.

[Kara Swisher]

Guy, I know, but what better as people who, if you're like me, who doesn't believe the president and his national security team are top notch, what better ally to have that can do this? I would argue strategically and as effectively. What was interesting here is that or what I found interesting. Interesting is to your point. These hardened targets, we have bunker busters that can go about 20 or 30 meters down, but if they dig deep enough and have these centrifuges. The question you're bringing up is how much can you decapitate of their nuclear programs? Within minutes they killed several very top ranking military officials. They also killed two or three their top nuclear scientists. But what I think, think what must be so chilling about the IRGC right now or the Iranian leadership, what they may be thinking is that essentially the Mossad now has control of the ground and that is they basically demonstrated we can kill anybody here. And if you're a mid level security part of the security apparatus in Iran, you got to be thinking, okay, what did I sign up for here? Because nobody, I mean imagine in the US if all the Joint Chiefs had been murdered or killed. The head of the Navy, the head of the army and our top six scientists and AI were all dead within 30 minutes. We would recognize, all right. We had been totally, our security apparatus had totally broken down and that's what's happened in Iran. I think today the Middle east is actually a safer place than it was on Thursday.

[Scott Galloway]

Interesting. I just think escalation of this war is so disturbing. Anyway, we'll see. It's up to Trump, maybe do a better job than his military parade. All right, let's go on a quick break. When we come back, the White House reviews SpaceX contracts amid the fallout of the Trump Elon feud.

[Kara Swisher]

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[Scott Galloway]

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[Kara Swisher]

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[Scott Galloway]

Scott we're back with an update on the girls who are fighting. I don't care if you're mad. I say that it's funny. By which I mean Donald and Elon. The White House directed the Defense Department and NASA to gather details on billions in contracts with SpaceX. And they should this is a good thing. You shouldn't have one person running things. The panel is reportedly thinking about scaling back SpaceX involvement in the Golden Doom, which is this protective shield, whatever the heck thing. Meanwhile, President Trump said he was amazed Elon ever endorsed him. Let's listen to a clip which literally does sound like a breakup. Now I know why Elon doesn't like me so much, which he does, actually. He does. And he never had a problem. You know, it's very interesting. This was, this is not something new. This has been there from day one speaker, right? We're going to abolish the EV mandate. And Elon still endorsed me because honestly, he never ever spoke to me about that. And I used to say I'm amazed that he's endorsing me because that can't.

[Kara Swisher]

Be good for him.

[Scott Galloway]

I'm abolishing the EV mine mandate. And I once asked him about it. You never talked to me about that. He said, well, as long as it's happening to everybody, I'll be able to compete. It was a very interesting answer. I thought it was a very honest answer, to be honest with you. So strange Please do. Honestly, they should just fucking get. Stop. I mean, I don't know what to say. We'll see. I mean, obviously Elon's under threat by Trump. Who knows if he'll ever carry through. I think one of the things I've always thought is even when Elon got contracts from Lockheed and others, I thought that was a good thing because of competition and better cheaper things and this and that. So they certainly have an upper hand here. And there should be lots of competitive bidding on this stuff, as competitive as it can be because it's the government. But it's such a strange relationship. I think Trump's passed him. I do think Trump's past asked him, but I don't know about what you think he keeps trying to kiss up to. Elon keeps trying to kiss up to. I think this is kind of over.

[Kara Swisher]

Well, what is it? Occam's Razor? The, the obvious answer is usually the right one. I, I think it's pretty obvious what's happened here, and that is Elon got the President elected or at least played a major role in his election, and as a result believes he should have input. You know, was comfortable usurping congressional power and the power of the purse and making not even administrative suggestions around cutting costs or trying to root out waste and fraud, but making political decisions that we should cut off usaid, which supposedly or reportedly according to Boston University, is already responsible for 300,000 incremental deaths. He was comfortable doing that and then felt that he should have input around the picks, around the irs, the CIA, NASA and people in the White House got sick of an unelected co President, President Elon got very angry and started and then to his quarter of a billion followers accused the President of being a sex criminal. Didn't bother him before when he was allowed to be in the White House in his Hot Topic outfit with a black eye, but when he got basically kind of shoved out of the White House, decided that the President was a pedophile, and then what hasn't been reported, but I believe will be reported because it seems fairly obvious to me is some somebody, whether it was Speaker Johnson or a go between. I don't know, Peter Thiel, I don't know who the kind of emissary there's always a go between, called Trump and said, okay, I'm sorry, called Musk and said, okay, I don't think you realize who you're fucking with. This is what he could do in about 30 to 90 days, cancel every contract, every subsidy across SpaceX and Tesla respectively, which would take the value of SpaceX from 300 billion to about 100 and probably put Tesla out of business. He could threaten to deport you. He could start looking in, he could sit IRS on you. He could rehire and triple the number of inspectors generals who are trying to put in safety standards around your autonomous driving. And then Tesla goes from being worth 900 billion to being worth 50 billion. I mean, he could do that in about 90 days. And somebody communicated that to Musk and Musk realized, oh, maybe I went too far. And that was his next tweet. He didn't. All of a sudden, in a fit of sobriety, coming down from Kay decided that he had lost control of his. Somebody called him and said, listen, bitch, you fucked with the wrong cowboy. Whether you like this cowboy or not, he's got the biggest badge in town and he can literally put you out of business and deport you. Somebody made that call. Because that's the truth though he's.

[Scott Galloway]

Let me just say though, so so far on his Twitter, he was sort of supporting him on the protests and stuff. But that's out of the news right now, right? All those protests. What is interesting is all he's doing is Tesla things and things self aggrandizing. How good he. And people complimenting him on Twitter. And then every now and then he's put up these. No kings, no gods or kings, only men. No gods or kings, only men.

[Kara Swisher]

What do you know? He's acting like a drug addict.

[Scott Galloway]

I know, but I was like, what's he doing? Cause he's not. Just say it. Like.

[Kara Swisher]

We keep looking for reason and rational behavior here.

[Scott Galloway]

Why is he putting those up? He didn't put those up, Kara.

[Kara Swisher]

He's a fucking drug addict.

[Scott Galloway]

Okay, all right. But I'm like, he can't help himself, right? I mean most of it is like, isn't the future with Elon Musk or rockets and cool cars and like he, he just has all this complimentary stuff up, which is sad, but at the same like, can you imagine? I'm so great, look how people think I'm great. But it'll be interesting. I think Trump is gonna just put him. Put baby in the corner and keep.

[Kara Swisher]

But keep somebody, somebody called Musk and said, okay, Elon, are you relatively non high right now? Call me when you have 10 or 15 minutes where you feel like rel. Not out of your fucking head. And I'm just going to break down what the President, this president who is corrupt and willing to avoid the courts or bypass the courts. This guy will deport you, Elon. This guy will. This guy will. This guy will cut off all subsidies the next day to you. How are you going to explain that to your shareholders?

[Scott Galloway]

The thing is, he's not going to do better with the Democrats either.

[Kara Swisher]

It's just like, oh, no. That he would. Because the Democrats will honor the Constitution in court.

[Scott Galloway]

I don't know. I think they're gonna target him. Like, before, he was like, they're targeting me. I'm like, they're really not. And I'm like, I think they're going to this time.

[Kara Swisher]

But what you're highlighting is why autocracy is so dangerous. Because quite frankly, in the short run, it's so much more effective. Because if you believe Biden would never do this to me. Biden would never threaten to cut off my subsidies or do an illegal asymmetric targeted attack against my companies or me. Individually, I am safe to shitpost Biden. But be careful. Don't come out and say anything bad about the autocrat who's willing to bypass the courts and prosecute his perceived political enemies. That's the danger of an autocracy, is. It is very effective.

[Scott Galloway]

I think he's in trouble either way. Either way, he's in trouble. I don't know who could win that wants a piece of him. I think he really overplayed his hand really. Rather badly.

[Kara Swisher]

I see. I wonder if it could go the other way. And that is.

[Scott Galloway]

Oh, if they're nicer.

[Kara Swisher]

Well, I just wonder, Kara, I wonder if a decent strategy. And again, just about.

[Scott Galloway]

And controversial. Yeah, but go ahead. I think I know what you're going to say.

[Kara Swisher]

Go ahead, try and invite Elon back into the Democratic Party.

[Scott Galloway]

That's just. You should. Ro Khanna sort of brought it up, but he didn't exactly even. And I have to be fair to him. He didn't actually say, but Andrew Yang said it and they got like, run over like a mower. Like. Like a power mower. It was interesting, but.

[Kara Swisher]

But you said something. Occasionally you say things that resonate with me and you said something a few weeks ago or a couple weeks ago that made a ton of sense to me and I've been talking about it. We got attacked mostly you online for suggesting that Obama come back.

[Scott Galloway]

Oh, yes.

[Kara Swisher]

And people are like, angry questlove attack.

[Scott Galloway]

An amazing artist. I'm sorry.

[Kara Swisher]

But basically they said, look, it's not up to Obama. We need new leadership. It's insane of you to expect him to come say. I mean, but. And I think That's a valid opinion. Opinion. But that the attacks got personal. And I thought to myself, what you said is exactly right. The Democrats are just the first to attack allies that are imperfect. And I thought, I don't weigh in anymore on the comments. I just don't do it for my own mental health. And I find it's not productive. People don't want to have a civil conversation.

[Scott Galloway]

I'm glad you're reading my comments now.

[Kara Swisher]

But people attacked you. People. People started strafing me because I was. I host. Co host of the show with you. And I thought, you know what, folks? We're not going to regain the White House with a Democratic Party that is less popular than a party head by a fascist. If we start saying to the guy next to us, fuck you, you're holding the gun wrong. You're my ally, but I don't like the way you're holding the gun.

[Scott Galloway]

It was interesting. Let me just weigh in on this. I did get attacked, and Questlove really did attack me. Listen, I get your arguments. I don't want a magical black man to come and save us. That's not what I was saying. And actually, I'll tell you, I had a great talk with Kare, who just wrote a great piece called Barack Obama Is not yout Emotional Support President. And she and I had coffee this week. She's wonderful columnist, was also Jamal Khashoggi's editor, by the way. Just terrific, terrific columnist and a really wonderful person. And she wrote a great piece about it. But she listened like, you know, I'm like, I'm not saying I want, you know, this magical person to come save us. I'm saying we don't have someone. And this is out of enormous respect for him. Not out of let that guy who's given up so much take care of it. We had a great talk. We ended up having a great talk. And she was hearing what I was saying. So I think it's easy to say white ladies say, bring Obama in to fix it. And Karen wrote, look, I get it. Obama was a culture icon. He's perhaps the only Democrat with the star power to take on a star power of Trump. But this is the thing about political power. Trump is the one who has it now. I agree, I agree. I just am waiting for other people or not. He's the only one with the gravitas, in my opinion. But I get why you don't think he should. But when you say, the only argument I don't get is let George Bush do it. Let Bill Clinton, they are so stunted in comparison to Barack Obama. It's not even that to me is laughable. Let them do it. They're not capable, nor are they talented.

[Kara Swisher]

But anyway, I think the argument without the personal vitriol against allies, attacking allies, which is how we managed to lose the White House again, is that okay? We need a new generation of leadership to step up here. And presidents do have a storied, dignified habit of not weighing in on politics once they're out of the White House. I think your point, and I agree with it more generally or more broadly? Broadly, is that a lot of wealthy Democrats are clutching their pearls in private and not speaking up in public, Whether it's Fortune 500 CEOs, former presidents, people who have a platform. Because right now, and the Autocrats playbook is to disincentivize you from saying anything because you will become a target and he will punish you unfairly. So the smart thing to do is just to stay quiet or just to give him $10 million to his library and neuter the free press. I mean, the incentives are just to stay quiet and stay out of his way. And there are a lot of people, and to your point, including former presidents, that have a really powerful platform that if there was a time to speak up, it feels like now is that time. And I think that not only goes for former presidents, whether it's Bush or Obama, but also, and I've said this, the people I'm most disappointed in are really wealthy democrats.

[Scott Galloway]

I agree. CEOs, I agree.

[Kara Swisher]

Look, we're not going to have Jamie Dimon. We're going to have 14% mortgage rates. And you know this. If we continue to be this fiscally irresponsible, you know, Bob Iger, a free press is super important. You can't give $10 million just to make a problem go away. To his library that has literally unleashed a ton of knee bending across all of media and set a really ugly precedent for what is the most important cop pushback against fascism. And that is a free press. The CEO of Nike. You have a huge opportunity to come out and talk about how important immigrants have been to immigration or to sport and competitiveness and American values. And all of these guys, 499 of which of the Fortune 500, wake up every morning, look in the mirror and say, hello, Mr. President. Well, the key to being president is leadership. And leadership is doing the right thing when it's really hard. Hard. And I recognize all of you are worried about your shareholder value. But Tim Cook, if You believe a man should be able to marry another man. Guess what? We are headed to a very ugly place where your kids, should they decide to marry someone of the same sex, won't be allowed to. So I respect the fact he did not go to the Gulf. I respect the fact these guys, and let's be honest, 430 of them are guys, are in a very difficult spot. But there are a lot of people who were in a very difficult spot who made very hard choices such that. That we could have incredible prosperity and rights and live with an absence of fear that if we say something that the current administration doesn't like, they're not going to bankrupt us or deport us to some hellscape. So, gentlemen, grow a fucking pair. This is exactly the time to speak up.

[Scott Galloway]

I would love that. I would love that, too. The only reason I'm thinking of Obama is because I think he's uniquely gifted. Loved by a lot of people that are Trump supporters. Absolutely. I don't think. I can't say if you. Listen, if you disagree with me, come up with other people. Maybe all of them together. Together. But don't tell me George Bush. Sorry. Compared to Obama is stratospheric. Compared to George Bush or Bill Clinton.

[Kara Swisher]

Well, it's kind of all of the above, isn't it?

[Scott Galloway]

Yes, it would be. Maybe all of them come together.

[Kara Swisher]

Look at the no kings. Like, a couple million people decided they were going to take the risk in paint signs.

[Scott Galloway]

Those are the most important people. You just need a little. You know, I believed in the hope thing, so I just. That's where I'm with him.

[Kara Swisher]

And I saw this incredible group of inspiring women in Fort Worth, Texas, marching in a line dressed in Handmaid's Tales outfits. And I'm like, these women got up and spent all week putting together these frighteningly beautiful Handmaid's Tales outfits because they want to send a message.

[Scott Galloway]

The citizens are. You know, let me tell you, right? It shouldn't be Obama. It should be all the citizens. But it would be all of a.

[Kara Swisher]

Nice all of the above.

[Scott Galloway]

All of the above. That's kind of. And I just. It's a compliment to Obama, just so you all know.

[Kara Swisher]

By the way, my son took the act last week, and I've decided that standardized test care are really culturally biased against kids that don't give a shit.

[Scott Galloway]

I hate those tests. I always.

[Kara Swisher]

Oh, my God. I am much more anxious about the act than my son. That's the problem. He's like. I'm like, how'd it go? How'd it go? And he's like, well, I think it did okay. Math was hard, but, you know, I think it did all right. Hey, do you think the pub will serve me a beer? I'm like, how did it go?

[Scott Galloway]

Time for a donation from the Galloways. But one thing I will say is the danger of anyone, Obama or whoever, public figure speaking out is very high now, especially with these deaths of these very brave people.

[Kara Swisher]

Again, that's the Autocrats playbook. That's when you gotta speak up.

[Scott Galloway]

I get it.

[Kara Swisher]

It's dangerous.

[Scott Galloway]

So I guess we all have to do it together. Okay, Questlove, you're right. We all have to do it together. Questlove, come home, join hands.

[Kara Swisher]

Anyway, I like your turn. Let's embrace our imperfect allies.

[Scott Galloway]

Yes, let's embrace them.

[Kara Swisher]

When you get attacked and you're like, you say to people, you know, like, aren't. At the end of the day, isn't there like an 80, 90% overlap on the really important shit that we agree on? Yeah, so we can spend all our time shitposting each other on the 10% we don't agree on?

[Scott Galloway]

Yes. That's why I appreciate my talk with Karen. It was great. She's a great everyone. I urge everyone to read her piece about that because I see her point too. Anyway, one more quick break. We'll be back for wins and fails.

[Kara Swisher]

Support for Pivot comes from Vanta. If you could automate 90% of one part of your life, you might choose cleaning your house or writing thank you notes or working out. But if you're a startup founder or a security professional, you'd probably choose compliance makes sense. Achieving and maintaining compliance takes a ton of time and money. Vanta is a trust management platform that helps businesses automate up to 90% of the work for in demand security frameworks including SOC2, ISO 27001 and HIPAA. Vanta also saves businesses time by centralizing security processes and in helping them complete security questionnaires up to five times faster with AI. And Vanta saves you money. A recent IDC white paper found that Vanta customers achieve $535,000 per year in benefits. Making sure your company is meeting its security compliance standards isn't optional, but with Vanta, the amount of time you need to spend on it is. Go to vanta.com pivot to meet with a Vanta expert about your business needs. That's vanta.com/pivot.

[Scott Galloway]

Support for Pivot comes from IBM. Bigger isn't always better, especially with AI super sized models can drain your budget fast. Smaller ones are smart and can help cut AI cost up to 90% right size your [e-mail] the AI built for business IBM Fox Creative this is Advertiser content from Adobe. As the Chief Marketing officer for a tech company, I lead a team that makes fresh content on a daily basis.

[Kara Swisher]

But this month has been particularly nuts.

[Scott Galloway]

Because we're planning a conference. There are dozens of people working together on all the documents, slides, posters, flyers and merchandise. Fortunately, our event marketer is the best.

[Kara Swisher]

In the business and she said two words.

[Scott Galloway]

Adobe Express Express. Adobe Express has been a lifesaver. Brand kits have kept everything consistent. Templates mean whatever content we need to.

[Kara Swisher]

Create looks slick and professional from the start.

[Scott Galloway]

And easy syncing of assets means that anytime a change comes in, like a.

[Kara Swisher]

Last minute swap out of our new app logo, I know that every team member will instantly have access to the latest version.

[Scott Galloway]

That way I know when the curtain.

[Kara Swisher]

Goes up, isn't that new logo gorgeous?

[Scott Galloway]

Everything will go off without a hitch. Adobe Express, the quick and easy app to create on brand content. Learn [e-mail] Express Business okay, Scott, let's hear some wins and fails. Why don't you. I can go first or you can go first.

[Kara Swisher]

You go first.

[Scott Galloway]

I'm going to do something happier for my win. Which is. Besides, we've talked about the. No, I thought that was a total win and everything else, but I got something silly. Lilo and Stitch. I see why it's making a bajillion dollars at the box office.

[Kara Swisher]

So you saw that?

[Scott Galloway]

I saw it and I loved it.

[Kara Swisher]

Did you take Claire?

[Scott Galloway]

I took Claire and Saul and Amanda and I went and the popcorn was floating and everything else. It was completely charming. What a charming, charming, wonderful cast. Sorry, Magath. It was diverse in a great way. It was just heartfelt. It was great to look and I know I can. I was first. Like, how is it making so much money? I didn't like the cartoon version. I didn't.

[Kara Swisher]

It's huge.

[Scott Galloway]

It is. I didn't. I never liked it. Of all the many movies I watch with my kids, my older kids. But this is. It's a huge movie. It's a great movie. It's totally worth your time. And I enjoyed it. Every bit of it's utterly charming. And the two main characters, the two sisters and the side characters are all great too, but are wonderful. Just I didn't know either of them and they were both wonderful. And what a great job, Disney. Good job. Even though you shouldn't have fucking Paid Trump that money also. But great movie and my fail. It has to be. Figure out a way to join together in the lessons of this. No kings to protect people. Because I am so disturbed by how many people have told me who are public servants that they're terrified and they should be, as evidenced by what's happened. Some guy gets in his head to be angry and take it out on people. It's just there's. I don't quite know how to prevent that. And it's really. It's scary. It's a very scary thing for people who are outspoken. And so I would. I just. I'm not sure there's a solution to that. Except, you know, I don't. Just to bring it down the temperature. And it's very hard when there's a president who loves raising the temperature almost continually into a fever that creates all kinds of bad impulses on all sides. But although I do, I blame most a lot of this on the polarization, social media and gerrymandering and Trumpism in many ways, because it's always dunking, constantly dunking, and it's gotten the rest of us dragged along into its ugly wake. Anyway, that's my goal, so.

[Kara Swisher]

You know my favorite line from Leland Stitchworth?

[Scott Galloway]

What?

[Kara Swisher]

It's can not gone.

[Scott Galloway]

It's gone. Please write in. Everybody write in.

[Kara Swisher]

It's can.

[Scott Galloway]

It's not can. It's can not.

[Kara Swisher]

Look at my hotel room. Look at yours. It's can.

[Scott Galloway]

Okay, you can call it can. Hi, can I have the French fries? Get it.

[Kara Swisher]

French fries. I'm about to go have a €62 club sandwich.

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah. $62 club sandwich. Which you don't finish. That's my favorite part, is you never finish a club sandwich. I know, but why would you pay that much money? I would just because I.

[Kara Swisher]

Because I can.

[Scott Galloway]

You can?

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah.

[Scott Galloway]

I cannot.

[Kara Swisher]

It's like, why does a rich man get blowjobs in his Rolls Royce? Because he can. Anyways, I have two wins. My first already talked about. I do think that the IDF and the bold, like, courageous, in my opinion, attack. I think the world is safer. I think there's risks in any war. But I do think Iran barreling towards a nuclear weapon was just a bad idea for everyone. And I think, again, the Ukrainian army and the IDF continue to do the dirty, dangerous, courageous work of the west, who spends 800 billion on the military and yet has intraparty fights on whether we should or shouldn't do stuff. I'm not entirely sure why we would spend this kind of Money. No one's invading the US So unless we're going to make this isolationism from the far right, it's like, okay, if you're an isolationist, then let's take some of that military spending and put it back in to Medicare or Medicaid. But to want to increase the military budget from $800 billion to 1.1 trillion and then wring your hands over trying to take a stated enemy who says, death to Israel, death to America back from the brink of nuclear armaments. Okay, then fine, then cut our military budget in half because Mexico or Canada are not invading us anyways. My win is what I feel was an attack, a courageous attack on the nuclear facilities of Iran by the idf that makes the world a safer place. My other win is the yours. I just think there's no kings. These protests are just inspiring. I think that Americans who decide to give up a weekend day and go join hand in hand with their brothers and sisters and peacefully protest creative signs, creative outfits. I just thought it was inspiring. And as someone who's living abroad, it made me feel really good about moving back. I'm really looking forward to moving back. I think that we have endured worse than this and it's the citizenry, the media and the courts that are the firewalls here. Up until this point, I think a lot of people were worried, like, where is the citizenry here? And we saw it on full display this weekend. I thought it was just wonderful and hugely motivating, inspiring for the rest of us. So those are my two wins. And also I'm excited to see you. We'll be together tonight.

[Scott Galloway]

Are you coming? Oh, you're coming in. Oh, you're coming in for the dinner, right? Yes.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah. You're coming over to my hotel for this I heart a later thing.

[Scott Galloway]

I'll be there later and I'll be going through your room. I'll be ordering the Cullb sandwich, but go ahead.

[Kara Swisher]

Just celebrating just how dominant the radio business is.

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. We're doing okay. We're up. Come on.

[Kara Swisher]

Oh, no, we're podcasts. Oh, Well, I guess iHeart is podcast, isn't it? Yeah, they're doing pretty well.

[Scott Galloway]

We'll have a good time, don't worry.

[Kara Swisher]

You know my favorite. This is my favorite conference. My favorite conference in the world. The we are still relevant conferences. Advertising exists, give awards to each other and we all realize that a Pepsi commercial doesn't really mean anything thing anymore anyway.

[Scott Galloway]

I like ad awards usually they're pretty good. The ads are pretty Good. I like them.

[Kara Swisher]

No, they're wonderful. They're just irrelevant.

[Scott Galloway]

All the award ceremonies. I like the AD Awards best because I like them. Although I have to tell you, the Tony Awards were funny, were fun. The Tonys, I know the game again.

[Kara Swisher]

You need that Tricoxic. That Tricoxagon will take you off Tony's or Broadway.

[Scott Galloway]

I've never taken Tricoxin. I don't play.

[Kara Swisher]

You gotta admit, that's good.

[Scott Galloway]

Anyway, we want to hear from you. Send a few questions about business, tech or whatever is on your mind. Go to nymag.com pivot to send a question for the show or call 855-51-PIVOT. Elsewhere in the Kara and Scott universe this week, on with Kara Swisher. I spoke to a panel of millennial leaders about how to rejuvenate the Democratic Party. But let's listen to a clip of Representative Greg Cassar. It's pronounced Casar Scott from Texas.

[Kara Swisher]

When the Secretary of education was in my committee the other day, Linda McMahon, she's worth $3.2 billion. The committee started, like, hissing at me for asking her how many millions of dollars she's gonna make when we pass this billionaire tax cut bill that was seen before as, like, rude. But if it's the only way that finally our voters can hear us, maybe we pick the right message. But what if they don't even hear.

[Scott Galloway]

It in the first place?

[Kara Swisher]

They can get filled with all the Republican propaganda on their phone without us competing.

[Scott Galloway]

As you must know by now, politeness is not my favorite thing. I figured that out about halfway through the. Anyway, it was a great show. It was a really interesting group of young people and they actually had some great ideas and they're pretty ballsy. I really, I really not, like, sensitive, which was great. Which was terrific. And they, they mixed it up a lot. I appreciate it. Anyway, that's the show. Thanks for listening to Pivot. Be sure to like and subscribe to our YouTube channels. We'll be back on Friday. Scott, get on your Zodiac and come find me. But before that, read us out.

[Kara Swisher]

Do you know it the most? Today's show was produced by Lara Naim and Zoe Marcus, Taylor Griffin and Kevin Oliver. Ernie and her Todd engineered this episode. Thanks also to Drew Bros, Ms. Avero and Dan Shalon Nishakuros, Vox Media executive producer of podcast. Make sure to follow Pivot on your favorite podcast platform. Thank you for listening to Pivot from New York magazine, Vox Media. You can subscribe to the magazine on ymag.com pod we'll be back later this week for another breakdown of all things tech and business. Live from Paramount plus is your streaming home for the nwsl, the best women's.

[Scott Galloway]

Soccer league in the world.

[Kara Swisher]

Oh my goodness. The game's brightest stars and Thompson surging.

[Scott Galloway]

Forward and the world's top clubs. Kansas City cannot stop scoring, battling it.

[Kara Swisher]

Out on the pitch and pursuing of the ultimate prize outstanding, the nwsl. Streaming all season long on Paramount Plus.

[Scott Galloway]

Support for this show comes from Pure Leaf Iced Tea when you find yourself in the afternoon slump, you need the right thing to make you bounce back. You need Pure Leaf iced tea. It's real brewed tea made in a variety of bold flavors with just the right amount of naturally occurring caffeine. You're left feeling refreshed and revitalized so.

[Kara Swisher]

You can be ready to take on what's next.

[Scott Galloway]

The next time you need to hit the reset button, grab a Pure Leaf iced tea. Time for a tea break. Time for a Pure leaf.

[Kara Swisher]

Support for this show comes from WhatsApp. The personal chat on WhatsApp is a place where you share everything, from the mundane connections to the memories that mean everything. It's a place that can truly feel like it's your own, and WhatsApp makes sure everything stays protected from outside eyes, even theirs. No one, not even WhatsApp, can see or hear your personal messages. That includes personal calls, plus any documents, photos or media that you share in your personal chat.

[Scott Galloway]

WhatsApp message privately with everyone.

[Kara Swisher]

Visit WhatsApp.com privacy to learn more.