Musk vs. Altman, Trump Admin's DEI Crackdown, and Netflix Stock Surge

Summary

Pivot Podcast Summary: "Musk vs. Altman, Trump Admin's DEI Crackdown, and Netflix Stock Surge"
New York Magazine | Vox Media Podcast Network
Release Date: January 24, 2025

In this compelling episode of Pivot, hosts Kara Swisher and Scott Galloway delve deep into the intersecting worlds of technology, politics, and business. They dissect the latest developments surrounding Elon Musk and Sam Altman's feud, the Trump administration's crackdown on Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion (DEI) initiatives, and Netflix's remarkable stock performance. The conversation is rich with insights, sharp analysis, and the signature banter that listeners have come to love.

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1. Trump Administration's DEI Crackdown

The episode opens with a heated discussion about the Trump administration's aggressive measures to dismantle DEI roles within federal agencies. Kara and Scott express profound concern over the implications of mandating employees to report coworkers in DEI positions, likening the environment to a "Gestapo-like" atmosphere.

Kara Swisher (10:22):
"I think it's DEI truth, you know, is the... It feels like 1984. One employee told the New York Times they felt like they were being recruited into the Gestapo."

Scott Galloway (08:04):
"Over time, people started ratting out innocent people. And it created such a society of distrust that no one wanted to talk."

The hosts draw parallels to historical instances of political purges, emphasizing the detrimental impact on workplace culture and trust. They criticize the administration’s approach, arguing that transparency and outright removal of DEI roles would be more effective and less divisive.

Kara Swisher (10:58):
"That's really quite disturbing. And creates all kinds of different problems between employees."

Scott Galloway (12:06):
"It creates distress. And by the way, if word gets out that you're the one narcing on people."

The conversation highlights the broader consequences of such policies, including increased workplace tension and the erosion of collaborative environments. They advocate for genuine reform rather than coercive tactics that foster paranoia and resentment among federal employees.

---

2. Elon Musk vs. Sam Altman: The AI Power Struggle

A significant portion of the episode is dedicated to the escalating tension between Elon Musk and Sam Altman amidst the Trump administration's new AI initiative, Stargate. President Trump announced a joint venture involving OpenAI, SoftBank, and Oracle aimed at bolstering AI infrastructure in the U.S., a move that both allies and adversaries are scrutinizing.

Kara Swisher (29:53):
"Sam Altman took the opportunity to briefly thank Trump. I'm thrilled that we get to... it's been in the works for a long time."

However, Musk, who was conspicuously absent from the announcement, reacted negatively on social media, questioning the venture's credibility and Altman's role.

Sam Altman (29:49):
"I realize what is great for the country isn't always what's optimal for your companies, but in your new role, I hope you mostly put America first."

Kara and Scott analyze the underlying motives behind Musk's hostility, suggesting it stems from personal animosity and professional rivalry with Altman. They speculate on the broader implications for the AI landscape, especially considering Musk's influence and his tendency to engage in provocative trolling.

Scott Galloway (32:04):
"It's genius branding on the part of the administration. The president... took credit for it."

They further critique Masayoshi Son of SoftBank, questioning his credibility and the significance of his involvement in Stargate given his history with failed investments like WeWork.

Kara Swisher (33:40):
"He's had more disasters than he has pluses, all kinds of controversies around his companies."

The discussion underscores the precarious balance between fostering innovation and managing the reputational risks associated with high-profile tech figures embroiled in public disputes.

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3. Netflix Stock Surge and Streaming Wars

Transitioning to the entertainment sector, Kara and Scott examine Netflix's recent financial triumph. The streaming giant reported a surge of 19 million new subscribers in Q4, propelling its global total to 302 million. Revenue climbed 16%, surpassing the $10 billion mark for the first time, partly attributed to major live events like Mike Tyson and Jake Paul's boxing match.

Kara Swisher (17:00):
"Netflix attributed the growth to Mike Tys, Jake Paul boxing match in November. Interesting. These live events."

Scott Galloway (19:46):
"Netflix is spending $8 billion on content. Even Apple, with a $3 trillion market cap, has said we can't spend more than 4 or 5 billion."

The hosts praise Netflix's strategic investments and expansive content library, which continue to set it apart from competitors. They draw analogies between Netflix’s business model and automotive giants, highlighting its scalability and pricing power.

Scott Galloway (19:46):
"That's called pricing power."

Kara contrasts Netflix with other streaming platforms like Amazon, Disney's Peacock, and HBO, questioning why many struggle to match Netflix's allure. They suggest that Netflix's relentless content production and strategic pricing make it a dominant force in the streaming wars.

Kara Swisher (20:56):
"Why do the others seem so bleh. Like much of them, why are they so far behind the other streamers?"

Scott Galloway (23:27):
"Look, Netflix is Toyota. It'll be the biggest in the world. It produces the most for the lowest price."

The conversation emphasizes Netflix's unrivaled value proposition, asserting that its ability to produce a vast array of content at competitive prices ensures its continued supremacy in the market.

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4. TikTok Deal Speculations: Potential Buyers and Implications

In the latter half of the episode, Kara and Scott pivot to the ongoing saga surrounding TikTok's future in the United States. With the Trump administration pressing for the app's sale to mitigate national security concerns, multiple high-profile figures and corporations are rumored to be in the running.

Kara Swisher (53:23):
"President Trump is embracing artificial intelligence in a big way. Announcing Stargate, a joint venture between OpenAI, SoftBank and Oracle that aims to build up AI infrastructure in the U.S."

Scott critiques the feasibility of potential buyers like Elon Musk, Larry Ellison (Oracle), and even YouTube star Mr. Beast, questioning their capacity and strategic fit for acquiring TikTok.

Scott Galloway (54:34):
"You need China. You need the TCP. And that probably puts Musk in some other position."

They discuss the intricate balance between U.S. ownership and Chinese influence, highlighting the geopolitical tensions that complicate any potential acquisition. Scott further analyzes the implications of Oracle's involvement, suggesting that it positions the company as a significant player in the AI landscape.

Kara Swisher (57:05):
"I like the Snapchat idea. I really like the Netflix idea. That's a great idea. I like what Mark Cuban's doing."

The hosts debate alternative strategies, such as empowering existing U.S.-based tech firms like Snapchat or Netflix to develop competing platforms, thereby fostering a more competitive and secure digital environment.

Scott Galloway (58:40):
"Oracle is a great company, great revenues, great management, and they're going to start to get the peanut butter and chocolate right now."

The segment underscores the complexities of digital asset acquisitions amidst national security concerns, economic implications, and the broader struggle for technological dominance between global superpowers.

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5. Additional Topics and Listener Engagement

Throughout the episode, Kara and Scott intersperse their analysis with personal anecdotes, humor, and listener interactions. They address questions such as the mysterious drones in New Jersey and offer unsolicited advice to listeners, maintaining their characteristic conversational style.

Kara Swisher (61:25):
"I want him to tell us who killed JFK. And I'd like to know, to see an alien."

Scott Galloway (65:21):
"My prediction is the following. Oracle has officially been invited to the grownups table... in the next 90 days Oracle is going to outperform its peers."

These lighter moments provide a balance to the in-depth discussions, making the episode both informative and entertaining.

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Conclusion

In this episode of Pivot, Kara Swisher and Scott Galloway offer a multifaceted examination of pressing issues at the nexus of technology, politics, and business. From the Trump administration's DEI policies and the Musk-Altman rivalry to Netflix's market dominance and TikTok's uncertain future, the hosts provide incisive commentary backed by timely quotes and real-world implications. Their ability to weave together complex narratives with engaging dialogue ensures that listeners are not only informed but also deeply invested in the unfolding stories.

For those looking to stay ahead in the fast-paced worlds of tech and politics, this episode of Pivot serves as an essential compass, guiding listeners through the latest developments with expertise and flair.

Transcript

[Kara Swisher]

Mike has always wondered what makes some people want to play action hero.

[Scott Galloway]

When I see people speeding or skydiving or surfing on 100 foot waves, I.

[Kara Swisher]

Always think, are you crazy?

[Scott Galloway]

What are you doing?

[Kara Swisher]

Because I'm like, risk averse.

[Scott Galloway]

I'm trying to, like, you know, keep.

[Kara Swisher]

Mike in one piece. But what about people who get their thrills from playing cop? This week on Explain It To Me, Citizens arrest. Is it a real thing and should it be? New episodes every Wednesday. It's Donald Trump's first week in office again, and it sure feels like it. There is a great deal of, as Heather said, a great deal of anger about oligarchs, about rich people controlling everything.

[Scott Galloway]

I'm Preet Bharara, and this week I'm joined by Kara Swisher, Asted Herndon, and Heather Cox Richardson for a special inauguration.

[Kara Swisher]

Week episode of Stay Tuned with Preet. The episode is out now. Search and follow Stay Tuned with Preet wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, Megan Rapinoe here. This week on A Touch More, sue and I go over the first weekend of unrivaled Caitlin Clark sitting next to Taylor Swift at a playoff game and what's really behind the legislation that aims to bar transgender girls from school sports. Plus, we'll hear some responses to last week's Baker of the Week. And Sue's gonna share her ice cream recipe. Check out the latest episode of A Touch More. Wherever you get your podcasts and on YouTube, let me just say let's go around and give tips to really successful people.

[Scott Galloway]

Well, isn't that what this show is? Isn't that what Pivot is?

[Kara Swisher]

Yes, it is.

[Scott Galloway]

Unsolicited advice.

[Kara Swisher]

Hi, everyone. This is Pivot from New York magazine and the Vox Media Podcast network. I'm Kara Swisher.

[Scott Galloway]

I'm Scott Galloway and I endorse Lauren Sanchez's dress code.

[Kara Swisher]

I do, too.

[Scott Galloway]

I'm here for them. I mean, singular double breast chesticle. Help me, help me.

[Kara Swisher]

Listen, we at Pivot do not like talking about people's personal foibles and looks and everything else. We don't. We don't. We never do.

[Scott Galloway]

Who is we, white man? I very much enjoy objectifying people.

[Kara Swisher]

I understand, too.

[Scott Galloway]

I'm an equal opportunity objectifier. You gotta give me that.

[Kara Swisher]

Here's what I think got Scott going. Megyn Kelly went on a rant about Noren Sanchez's lady parts. It was really kind of strange and weird about, you know, essentially calling her a whore. That's what she was essentially doing. And I felt like I ran to her Defense. I'm like, if she wants to wear a bustier in the Capitol rotunda, she looks great. She looked good.

[Scott Galloway]

She looked great.

[Kara Swisher]

It was sexy and I like it. And we're all for you, Lauren. We're not so much loving your boyfriend, but we really like your outfit and, you know, whatever. I feel like people should wear what they want.

[Scott Galloway]

I. You know what? I relate to her because when I'm on the beaches of Saint Tropez, I wear a banana hammock, a speedo, because it would just be unfair not to share this youth. This, this, this, this, this raging hot sexuality. You know, you gotta put it in the window a little bit.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, okay.

[Scott Galloway]

No, I'm serious. I thought she looked great. Everyone was saying she wore a bra. I thought she looked great.

[Kara Swisher]

Well, it was a bustier. It's called the bustier.

[Scott Galloway]

Whatever. Okay, I agree.

[Kara Swisher]

I don't like people calling women sluts for wearing boostiers.

[Scott Galloway]

And he's banging a porn star and a woman who was in Playboy. Like, play to the crowd.

[Kara Swisher]

It's apparently bustier. Bustier is how you pronounce it.

[Scott Galloway]

I just say yay. I just say yay. Megan wears sleeveless dresses. My guess is that's not her natural hair color. And she wears form fitting dresses because she's got fantastic genetic attributes and more power to her. And she. I think people should do what makes them feel right. I'm more, quite frankly, I'm more uncomfortable with the way Senator Fetterman showed up.

[Kara Swisher]

Really? Oh, because it's sloppy. It's sloppy.

[Scott Galloway]

He showed up in shorts.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, that's his thing, though. I mean, it's his brand. He has to kind of wear that all the time. It's sort of like Richard Simmons.

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah, but it's kind of like I'm bigger than you and it's this whole. It's this whole Sam Bankman fried thing. Anyways, back to. Back to. Back to much more interesting topics.

[Kara Swisher]

Anyway, Lauren, we're with you. We're with you.

[Scott Galloway]

We're with you.

[Kara Swisher]

We're with you.

[Scott Galloway]

Team Sanchez.

[Kara Swisher]

Team Sanchez on the boostill.

[Scott Galloway]

Whatever.

[Kara Swisher]

Yay for the boosting.

[Scott Galloway]

If Musk can have double E breasts, so can she. No, I'm sorry if Bezos.

[Kara Swisher]

Oh, God, he's got big tits.

[Scott Galloway]

That guy's got really big tits.

[Kara Swisher]

He's got a set. He's got a set.

[Scott Galloway]

Oh, my gosh.

[Kara Swisher]

It's all real. Every bit of it.

[Scott Galloway]

Anyway. Not really. There's a definite amount. Take it from me, there's a lot of HGH and testosterone running through those.

[Kara Swisher]

Do you take that?

[Scott Galloway]

No. I've been on testosterone for about two or three years for reason I'm aging and I want to be stronger in the gym and have longer erections. Would you like me to go into greater detail?

[Kara Swisher]

I'm curious. No one ever asks, so I ask, go ahead.

[Scott Galloway]

But I go off it anyways or on it to try and make sure that I can still actually produce my own man juice. My own man gravy.

[Kara Swisher]

Wow. Oh, no, you didn't just say that word.

[Scott Galloway]

And anyways.

[Kara Swisher]

All right, that's enough information, thank you. Okay. All right. Does it affect you in any way taking it? I'm just curious. I know steroids can make your penis smaller. That's what I understand.

[Scott Galloway]

But, yeah, that would be difficult.

[Kara Swisher]

We've got a lot to get to today.

[Scott Galloway]

You've got a lot to get to. I'm just saying my nickname in college was Tripod. I'm not gonna say anything more. I'm not gonna say anything more.

[Kara Swisher]

That is.

[Scott Galloway]

Stop inquiring about my personal life.

[Kara Swisher]

Wise joke. That is a 12 year. You could up the level of your joke.

[Scott Galloway]

My other one was anteater. Anteater. No more. I'm not saying anymore.

[Kara Swisher]

We're done.

[Scott Galloway]

I'm not saying anymore.

[Kara Swisher]

We're done with the boobs and penises. Now, people, let's get to the news, because there was not a dick measuring contest going on between Elon Musk and Sam Altman trolling each other to get Trump's favor, and lavishly trying to get Trump's favor, including by Sam Altman. That was quite a tweet, by the way. Bill Gates is doing the same after having trashed him previously. Anyway, whatever. It's a new day, apparently. Kind of a scary new day in many ways, and we'll talk about that, too. Plus, new names in the mix for the TikTok deal. We have a lot to get to today, Scott. We've got to get off of Lauren Sanchez's boobs. Anyway, this story is really disturbing, honestly. Federal employees have been warned if they don't report coworkers working in DEI and accessibility positions, they will face repercussions. The warning told employees to notify the Office of Personnel if they are aware of any change in position descriptions to obscure the connection to dei. I think it's DEI truth, you know, is the. Is the email address, which is kind of frightening. Feels like 1984. One employee told the New York Times they felt like they were being recruited into the Gestapo. The Trump administration also called agency heads to place DEI roles on paid leave by Wednesday. They haven't fired them, but they're putting on paid leave. They're sort of. This is one of their promises to rid the government of dei. And of course, at the same time, there's all these lawsuits trying to get corporations to pull back on those things. And some are dying it and others aren't. But it was really disturbing the last time they kind of did this. I think it was the Eisenhower administration. It was targeting gay people, report gay people so that we can get them out of government. I'm not loving the reporting and commies. Yeah, I'm not loving the reporting thing. It's interesting because Amanda and I. I love your thoughts, but Amanda, I have a little bit of a thing. And I said Biden administration shouldn't change the names of these jobs just to hide them and obscure them. They should make them fire these in plain sight. That's, to me, instead of trying to hide them away. At the same time, getting employees to report on each other, that is a freakish thing to do. And it's really quite disturbing. I find it very disturbing. And creates all kinds of different problems between employees. It has that kind of Gestapo y feel to it. What do you think?

[Scott Galloway]

I actually think that's the wrong analogy. I think the correct analogy is the Stasi, by the way, one of the best movies, most underrated movies, the lives of others, about a East German who eventually gets to the west and the life he led in East Germany. But essentially there was currency and power in ratting out your neighbors.

[Kara Swisher]

Ratting out.

[Scott Galloway]

Over time, people started ratting out innocent people. And it created such a society of distrust that no one wanted to talk.

[Kara Swisher]

To the neighbors, which was the point.

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah, but it's really. Well, okay. But it leads to everything that's horrible about America, and that is we used to be a group of people that when we bound together to try and help people, other Americans, we didn't know we were down with that because we knew that we had more in common with them. We had regard for them, we trusted them. We generally assumed that other Americans were good people. So we were willing to invest. We were willing to be drafted. You know, we had a certain comity of man as it related to other Americans. When you create this, this is just terrible for a culture. It also speaks to mismanagement in the sense that they should be able to figure out who these positions are without incenting people.

[Kara Swisher]

It's their job, if they really want.

[Scott Galloway]

Them gone, to rat on each other. But something you Inspired another thought, and that is, I would argue that this is really not the first example, but the most brazen example, the last two weeks about how much ridiculous, brazen, outrageous corruption and grift and general weirdness has taken place. And in any other era there would have been nonstop coverage and shaming of exactly all the scenarios, the grift of, you know, these meme coins that the President launched. And you know what? I just don't think there's enough. I think there's too much grift.

[Kara Swisher]

They do it. They flood the grift zone.

[Scott Galloway]

They've just flooded it. And I don't think people can focus and I don't think there's enough journalists out there to actually cover this and do actual reporting.

[Kara Swisher]

Agreed, agreed. And I think one of the things we'll get to there is from layoffs and cnn. And one thing that Mark Thompson said, which I do not agree with and I think I can say it pretty clearly, that you take them, you know, let's cover them, let's not have an opinion. I think you can have an opinion once you do reporting. And my opinion on this is snitches get stitches. That's what, you know that expression like it's really. It's snitches. That's what you are if you do things like this. And again, if Trump wants to get DEI out of things, which by the way, probably targets women and people of color, more in those positions would be my guess. But I don't have the statistics. If you want to get rid of that, get rid of it in plain sight and say you're doing it and find them and find the people and get rid of them. And that's how you do it. And if you really believe in your ridiculous obsession with dei, then do it and be proud of your shitty behavior. That's my feeling. Instead of forcing employees to rat on each other. I hate rats.

[Scott Galloway]

You know how I feel about it as it relates to dei. I think there are likely government agencies that where DEI and affirmative action were needed and I'm not sure they're as needed now. And I think in many instances they create more problems than they solve. So I'm not an enormous DEI fan in government agencies where you might have 60% non white or 30%, in other words, the problem, and we should collectively celebrate this. A lot of the problem has been addressed, not all of it, but a lot of it. And oftentimes it ends up in propagating the exact things you're trying to solve. For now, having Said this just some advice to younger people or people in the workplace. A really smart strategy is that you always talk well of people behind their back. And that is you are the first person to acknowledge someone's work behind their back. You're not kissing their ass. You talk up your colleagues when someone does something good. You constantly talk well of people behind their back. This is the polar fucking opposite.

[Kara Swisher]

It is.

[Scott Galloway]

It creates distress. And by the way, if word gets out that you're the one narcing on people.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, I know.

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah. Try and manage a group of people after that.

[Kara Swisher]

Snitches get stitches.

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah. And this is ugly. And also, just generally speaking, no one likes snitches. Couldn't they figure this shit out on their own?

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, I agree. Now, there's a difference between snitches and like, something terrible happens in the workplace and you report it like a whistleblower. Right. That is a different thing. This is snitches. You know what I mean? Like, I do think people, if their abuse is happening, should feel safe to whistleblow. But anyway, if it's a crime.

[Scott Galloway]

But I'm actually a fan. I hate suggestion boxes. I like identity you should be able to assign. Now, people will say, well, granted, that's easy for you to say, cause you're wealthy and can afford lawyers. But I hate anonymous anything. I just think it creates. I don't like this person for the following reasons. I mean, we had this shit at schools. We had. We had parents of kids who had been broken up with by other kids calling anonymous hotlines for child abuse. I mean, this shit gets so ugly so fast. And this is not a way to build a culture around a group of people.

[Kara Swisher]

So if you guys are real proud of what you're doing and you're so obnoxious about it, by the way, they're so obnoxious about it, then just do it and let people see it and then decide if they think you're an asshole. They just don't. They want to hide behind everything anyway. Well, moving on. The SEC's new leadership has created a crypto task force. The force will develop a regulatory framework for crypto assets and address issues surrounding registration of coins. Bitcoin rallied in response to the news and is up almost 10% in the last month. Nothing wrong with the crypto task force. It just depends on who's on it. Right? There should be critics and people who want more regulation. There should be boosters, I suppose there have to be legitimate people on it. Anyone that thinks meme coins that Donald Trump pushed are the best thing ever, should not be on it. I don't know. What do you think? Nothing wrong with a task force. They're usually useless.

[Scott Galloway]

But this thing is rendered castrated before it forms. The person whose idea this is, who's assembling it and has total influence over it and can fire any of them on a dime, has introduced two coins under the COVID of darkness, letting a few people that he knows get a 7,000% gain and then seeing ordinary investors absolutely take a bath. The Melania coin is off 67% in the last 72 hours. I mean, what do you want in an asset class? You want credibility? You want people to trust it? You want the rule of fair play? You want it to be a store of value or have utility? This is literally just as my generation has pulled prosperity forward in the form of form of deficits. I want your future prosperity, Gen Z and millennials pulled forward to my current prosperity, Donald Trump. President Trump took the increasing credibility of this asset class and it has been increasing over the last year and future increases in credibility, and pulled it forward for essentially what was a grift and a scam. You know who was outraged about this? The crypto community.

[Kara Swisher]

They were.

[Scott Galloway]

They're like, Jesus Christ.

[Kara Swisher]

The legitimate crypto community. The legitimate.

[Scott Galloway]

But what is going to happen with this thing? You are going to see whenever they try, whenever this quote unquote task force attempts to pass anything resembling laws and regulation that would have given crypto more of a shot. I can't wait to see the Democratic representative and senators and some Republican senators putting up the data on the Trump and Melania coin and saying, let me get this. This is what we want.

[Kara Swisher]

Right?

[Scott Galloway]

Yep. So the idea, I mean, it's literally like Jeffrey Dahmer puts, you know, puts a task force together on lunchtime meals. It's just what this, this task force has lost all credibility because the guy assembling it is the greatest offender.

[Kara Swisher]

I like that you got high dudgeon about the crypt, the meme coin, the shitcoin. I love that this I love you're. You're offended because you don't not believe in it, but that it's like not fair play. Right. It isn't something that's not done in a way that improves the use of crypto or keeps it, makes it legitimate instead makes it sort of like Alex Jones selling vitamins. Right. Or whatever, selenium tablets or whatever. That's the kind of stuff, it feels.

[Scott Galloway]

Like physical violence is the most heinous crime. But when you steal from people when you're already rich. Money is the transfer of time and work. When you take people's trust or their desire to help you or whatever it is, and they lose 70% of their money. And what is an obvious grift? You're taking time from their kids, you're taking their retirement. And the whole point of having an operating system in capitalism is that we do need some protections. We do need some guardrails, because some people will try and exploit it. And when the person in charge, the person who's supposed to be the ultimate exemplar of trying to prevent a tragedy at the Commons, engages in the theft of other people's time and money, the whole fucking thing collapses. How do my kids get rich when no one trusts this economy?

[Kara Swisher]

And then everyone wants to be in on the grift, right? Then the grift is the thing and not the.

[Scott Galloway]

And everyone's like, I'm grifting, I'm grifting.

[Kara Swisher]

He's grifting, he's grifting. Absolutely. I have a decision to make. I almost stole your cashmere sweater, but I didn't. It was so soft.

[Scott Galloway]

Well, if you'd taken it, if you'd taken it and started wearing it, it would mean we're going steady. The next thing is I borrow your car.

[Kara Swisher]

I know, it's true. It was so cold. And I did wear it, and then I gave it. So soft.

[Scott Galloway]

I have some very nice sweaters. I have the GDP of a Latin American nation in Loro Piano and Bruno Cucinelli.

[Kara Swisher]

You do. You do. This happen to be. That's what it was. That was Laura Piano. It was very soft. I thought about it and I thought, I can't take it. Anyway, it was warm. All right, let's move on. You're right, completely. Netflix is upping its prices after reporting its biggest ever subscriber jump. The streamer gained 19 million new subscribers in Q4, bringing the global total to 302 million. Revenue increased 16%, topping $10 billion for the first time. Netflix attributed the growth to Mike Tys, Jake Paul boxing match in November. Interesting. These live events. They're doing these live ish events, which drew in 108 million viewers and probably a whole new class of people using Netflix, I would guess. Shares are up 12% in five days at the time of the taping. Wow. This group. This group of executives really does not make very many mistakes these days, I have to say. And they're doing all kinds of live events. This live event thing, which a lot I'm curious if they ever jump in a news, right? If they jump in a news, probably not, but live tv, certainly around sports and whatever that fight was, which was a shitty fight, but still it drew in a lot of people. Thoughts on their continued march toward dominance everywhere.

[Scott Galloway]

Well, you asked, will they jump into news? The answer is they're going to jump into everything. I mean, at one point it was unthinkable they were going to have their own house before House of Cards. It wasn't obvious. They were going to have their own production. And then no one ever thought they'd.

[Kara Swisher]

Have live events, which is how HBO started. FYI. HBO used to be movies.

[Scott Galloway]

People's movies. Yeah, that's right. And then they had HBO Boxing.

[Kara Swisher]

Boxing.

[Scott Galloway]

They're going into live. There'll be a news. Amazon broke the seal with their election night coverage. I don't know what the results are. Here they are also, they always thought, well, it's bifurcated into the large. Actually the bigger part of the market. Think of it as Android that is ad supported. That broadcast television was supposed to own that. For people who don't want to pay, who are willing to endure the ads, guess what, 55% of their new subscribers were in their ad tier model. And if you look at. They have basically doubled their price over the last 10 years when inflation is up 33%. Netflix has so much pricing power in the face of every.

[Kara Swisher]

It's worth it. Worth it.

[Scott Galloway]

That's called pricing power.

[Kara Swisher]

I know. And that's the thing I find I get a lot of value out of my Netflix things.

[Scott Galloway]

I watch a lot and so do 300 million other subscribers because these things are very easy to subscribe. So what do you have? They not only have power, but they've just raised prices. They are getting so much more money and have so many more people. No one else is gonna be able to compete unless they go very niche.

[Kara Swisher]

Well, why do you think like the Amazon? Amazon I sometimes go to. I have to say I go to Peacock more. I'm finding more stuff I like there. Why does Amazon seem so flaccid in terms of they have some good shows, but Netflix always has something I wanna watch. Say the three places would be Disney for my kids and everything. Although Disney has some other stuff I really like with Hulu. Peacock and Max are the other ones. Max, I think it's getting better and better. It is 100%. It has a lot of shows. I wan. Netflix just is always interesting to me and I would not if I had to get rid of any of them, they would be the last one I'd get rid of. Well, maybe Disney would be the last one because of my kids. But why do the others seem so bleh. Like much of them, why are they so far behind the other streamers?

[Scott Galloway]

Well, Netflix, quite frankly. Netflix is spending $8 billion on billion dollars on content. Even Apple, with a $3 trillion market cap, has said we can't spend more than 4 or 5 billion. So you have just the biggest investor. The biggest company that does, you know, offers the most for the lowest price. If you looked at the amount of shows they have relative to the price they're charging, it's still the best value. And then the only way you compete is through focus. And so you have hbo, which has still managed to maintain this incredible culture that is artisanal. And if there's someone talking at the water cooler about a show, it's usually on hbo. And the people, their ability to attract top talent. When I was pitching our show, we ended up with Netflix, but there were a lot of people in the group that wanted to go with hbo because HBO has a reputation. You can see that HBO attracts the cream of the crop in terms of talent. And they are able to. They've created a culture where they punch above their weight class. And then Disney has the best positioning. Disney is family. And if you have kids, you gotta take your kids to Disneyland and you gotta have Disney.

[Kara Swisher]

Everybody else, Spider man on there.

[Scott Galloway]

Everybody else is a guy at 3am who's fucked up, who's just like, gotta find a dance partner. It's just like everybody else has either gotta merge, cut costs, or sell to some billionaire's son. That's it.

[Kara Swisher]

Some of them are interesting. Like Tubi is. I really like Tubi. I think they're fun. They're kind of. She's. She. I just interviewed the CEO as a young woman CEO, but she used to work for Barry Diller, I think. But they have interesting stuff. Like, I've. I go around and kind of look at it just to see what I like. And they've put together some because of the way you pick it, like stories about sad sack lawyers or whatever. They do a lot of that, and that's interesting to me. But you really have to be creative in getting people the things they want to watch. Right. If that makes sense. And I have to say, Netflix is a little bit down. Like, you're right, Max. Not Max. HBO feels fancy restaurant. Like, not fancy, but really good restaurant. Netflix feels a little bit like Cheesecake Factory sometimes. And Again, I like the cheesecake. Like, I know it sounds crazy, but it doesn't always feel like there's a new Cameron Diaz movie. I love Cameron Diaz, and this is her first movie in, like a decade. Not a very good movie, but I watched it anyway and it was like, not great, but I don't care, right? Or a Jared Butler movie, or. You know what I mean? Like, I'm like, perfectly happy in those genres that they don't have to be spectacular and some way.

[Scott Galloway]

Look, Netflix is Toyota. It'll be the biggest in the world. It produces the most for the lowest price. It's really well managed. HBO is more like an Audi or maybe even a Mercedes. It's a higher end. Hbo. Netflix's strength is how much they produce. HBO strength is how much they don't produce. They've just got a higher bar and there's more trial. I think when HBO comes out with a big series, you're very inclined to trial it because there's a chance it's gonna be the thing. Whereas Netflix says, okay, 99% of our stuff is shit, but 1% of a shit ton is enough for you. And so, you know, everything else is, like, features. It's like heated seats. So I can't live without gps. But Netflix is now the car.

[Kara Swisher]

Apple does some really interesting things, I have to say. They have some variant like Severance and Tesla Lasso and there's a bunch of shows and horses. Whatever. Slow Horse. They have some shows that are quite good.

[Scott Galloway]

Slow horses.

[Kara Swisher]

They're sort of going for hbo, it seems like, but they're not quite there.

[Scott Galloway]

Well, they hired Plepler.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, yeah, they hired.

[Scott Galloway]

Anyway, it's a great time to love edibles and have a really nice couch.

[Kara Swisher]

That is true. Okay, I thought that was a dick.

[Scott Galloway]

Joke, but I won't go there.

[Kara Swisher]

Did you remember couch fucking? Anyway, that was a while.

[Scott Galloway]

I never understood that one.

[Kara Swisher]

That.

[Scott Galloway]

Oh, oh, yeah, that's the guy formerly known as the vp.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, right, right, yeah. Anyway, I love streaming. That story got lost in some. But that was a good story. Okay, Scott, let's go on a quick break. We come back. Elon Musk attempts to undermine Trump's new AI deal. Badly, I have to say. And of course, his nemesis is back. Sam Altman. Support for this show comes from Crucible Moments, a podcast from Sequoia Capital. It's easy to think that the success of tech giants like YouTube, Dropbox, and Reddit was inevitable. I was there and it wasn't, trust me. One thing these companies have in common is that they all survived the make or break moments that nearly took them down. And each of them had these on this season of Crucible Moments, you can hear the unvarnished histories of some of tech's influential companies told by the founders themselves. Like how Dropbox's disastrous public launch paved the way for the company company's viral success. Hosted by Roelof Botha of Sequoia, Crucible Moments provides a behind the scenes look at some of the most defining milestones in tech's history to show the moments of turmoil that can sometimes become great moments of triumph. I have to say, Roloff's a really good VC and I've covered him over the many years and I have seen a lot of these companies and it's really great actually to hear from founders of what their problems was. YouTube was very touch and go Reddit. Oh my God, I can't even tell you how many crises they had. Same thing with every company I've ever covered. Tune in to the new season of Crucible Moments. Now. You can [e-mail] or wherever you listen to podcasts. Support for Pivot comes from Deleteme, the personal data that you enter online every day. It might be worth more than you think. Data brokers can make a profit off of selling it, which can lead to phishing, identity theft, endless spam calls. But you can help protect your data with Deleteme. When you sign up for Delete Me, you can see exactly what information you want deleted, and their experts take it from there. Deleteme sends you regular personalized privacy reports showing what information they found, where they found it, and what they removed. I've tried Deleteme myself and I'm honestly so shocked by how much information there is about me out there. And I am a very big privacy nut. I know all about how the tech works and so it's pretty shocking that they could get me so badly. And some of the people that have it, I mean, just these companies, I don't know who they are. This is one way of getting especially the more pernicious stuff off the Internet. You can take control of your data and keep your private life private by signing up for Deleteme now at a special discount for our listeners. Today, you can get 20% off your delete me plan when you go to JoinDeleteMe.com pivot and use the promo code Pivot at checkout. The only way to get 20% off is to go to JoinDeleteMe.com pivot and enter the code pivot at checkout. That's Join Delete Me. Support for today's show comes from Chevrolet. No matter where your travel takes you in the new year, it's always good to travel with confidence, comfort and connectivity. Whether it's a quick jaunt or a long journey, the all electric Equinox EV has you covered. Equinox EV is America's Most affordable over 315 mile range EV and comes equipped with a massive 17.7 inch diagonal color display touchscreen. Add in sleek styling. It's more than 15 standard safety and driver assistance features and a starting price at around $34,995. You can feel confident and comfortable going down the road. Learn [e-mail] Electric Equinox EV based on a comparison of msrp of the 2025 Chevrolet Equinox EV LT with that of competing EVs EPA estimated 319 miles on a full charge with front wheel drive. Actual range may vary based on several factors including temperature, terrain, battery age and condition, loading, and how you use and maintain your vehicle. Safety or driver's assistance features are no substitute for the driver's responsibility to operate the vehicle in a safe manner. Read the vehicle owner's manual for important feature limitations and information. The manufacturer's suggested retail price excludes tax, title, license, dealer fees and optional equipment dealer sets Final price Scott we're back with our first big story. President Trump is embracing artificial intelligence in a big way. Announcing Stargate, a joint venture between OpenAI, SoftBank and Oracle that aims to build up AI infrastructure in the U.S. trump unveiled it there's no government money here. Just I got so many people like why is the government giving these people money? They're not. This is an initiative. It's just a press release from the White House is what it is. That's why he was there. Had Sam Altman was there, Larry Ellison was there, Masayoshi Son was there. All of who have up and down startup experience if you want to say that they're sort of big time investors. And Sam Altman took the opportunity to briefly thank Trump. Let's listen. I'm thrilled we get to do this.

[Scott Galloway]

In the United States of America. I think this will be the most.

[Kara Swisher]

Important project of this era.

[Scott Galloway]

And as Mahsa said, for AGI to get built here to create hundreds of thousands of jobs, to create a new industry centered here, we wouldn't be able to do this without you Mr. President.

[Kara Swisher]

And I'm thrilled that we get to so this has been in the works, just so you know it's been in the works for a long time. It's not. This is not a new thing. And I believe they offered it to the Biden people to do it sooner and they didn't bite. I suppose Trump knows how to bite. Trump's done almost nothing here to do that except for pose with them in the White House, which is not a bad thing. It's already broke ground. I know a lot about this. I've talked to all the different players in it. And just for history's sake, Masa had promised this in the last administration and didn't really make a lot of the investments that he said he was going to make the last Trump administration. That said, he's also a very good entrepreneur on many things and a very bad one on others. There also was Foxconn in the last era, never got built, which Trump had promised and touted and everything else. That said, this is a much more substantive group of people and they're already building the thing. After the announcement, though, Elon Musk, who was not in the room and purposely not in the room, in case everybody's interested, I have talked to a lot of people. They made sure he wasn't there. He was stirring the pot. Posting on X that these companies don't have the capital to invest. Sam Altman responded wrong. He went on to say, I realize what is great for the country isn't always what's optimal for your companies, but in your new role, I hope you mostly put America first. The word mostly is doing a lot of work. It's such a troll. It was such a perfect troll. I think part of, let me say, because I've done a little reporting into it, is they don't have the money yet, but they have a lot of money also, and they'll get the money. And I've talked to all the parties. Microsoft's a partner, there's other partners, and essentially it's to build a data center and build them all over the country. They still also need energy centers, they need all kinds of chips. Building chips here. There's gonna be a lot of this kind of stuff, a lot of money, not much result yet. So start on that, because I want to also get into this tech telenovela, as I'm calling it, between Musk and Altman, because they continued through the night to troll back and forth. And we'll talk about that in a minute. But talk about the announcement itself, Scott.

[Scott Galloway]

It's genius branding on the part of the administration. The president, because he basically took other people's assets and Money and pretended it was his idea. I mean, most of this was underway during the Biden administration. But what he's done is he's branded it and taken credit for it. And most Americans will go a half a trillion dollars US Government weighing in like the space program. We're going to be number one in AI. That's leadership day five when all he really did was just take existing efforts and capital and brand it. So this was brilliant from the president. Quite frankly, the one I don't get. I can't figure out that Masayoshi san is still hanging around the hoop. I don't think he's a great entrepreneur. I think he's one of the luckiest investors in history. I'm convinced, and this is my theory, that Masayoshi san is an officer in the Central Intelligence Agency that's been tasked with transferring oil capital back from the Gulf to American entrepreneurs.

[Kara Swisher]

Oh, oh, okay.

[Scott Galloway]

There's been few people that have lost more of other people's money, more of other people's money than Masayo Shisan. Softbank. I mean, come on, Cara.

[Kara Swisher]

Yes, I agree. I think he's had some wins.

[Scott Galloway]

Well, okay. Broken clock. If remember at your con I used to speak a lot at your code conferences whenever there was a really attractive entrepreneur on stage saying I have this Internet powered mattress and we just raised money at a valuation of 7 billion. You knew it was a softbank backed company.

[Kara Swisher]

Yes. Yeah, yeah.

[Scott Galloway]

I mean they were literally. They weren't drunken sailors. They were drunk sailors on method with dad's credit card and doing rails and they just found out they had terminal ass cancer and they were at a weekend in Vegas. I mean.

[Kara Swisher]

Yes, let's put the context here. Scott was incredibly critical and correctly throw on wework on the wework example of which son lost a lot of money and then continued to throw good money after bad. You're right. He's had more disasters than he has pluses. There's all kinds of controversies around his companies. He gets a lot of money from the Gulf states. As you know, he was one of the first to go there. He would drive technologists and venture capitalists crazy in Silicon Valley because he'd spend like a crazy person and then they'd have to. And so it got really ugly in terms of messing up the venture capital ecosystem in a way that was weird. And there were all these bad companies, like one after the next. Go ahead, Scott.

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah, like in terms of the group, the other interesting thing is the group. I have no idea what Masayoshi san is doing. In this group, I think, I think it diminishes the credibility of the whole thing. The, the biggest winner is the president here. And the other big winner, quite frankly is Oracle. Oracle is all of a sudden I went to this wonderful. Our friends Patrick and Tatum had this wonderful Christmas dinner and there's a kid's table and an adults table. And I said to my 14 year old, why don't you join the adults table? And we played these games and he was just so excited to be there. I feel like Oracle with this announcement is officially at the grown UPS table around AI.

[Kara Swisher]

Agreed. They've been behind in this area a lot, quite a bit. And, and Sam needs capacity. That's what he needs. Cause he's not getting enough from Microsoft. He needs computing capacity. That's really the situation because I'll tell you, Musk has done a great job scaling in terms of shoving all those chips in the place, polluting an area where he was opening. One of the things he's done a great job with Scaly and Altman needs to keep up here and needs to look like he's on his front foot. The two of them, what a relationship. They were very close and now are sort of like archenemies. Continued this back and forth trolling through the night. Elon's been resharing some of Sam's old anti Trump tweets. They existed. Sam posted he's not gonna agree with Trump on everything, but he thinks he'll be incredible for the country in many ways. Very much like Bill Gates saying, I was impressed with him, more impressed with him than I thought. Obviously every one of these people is gonna do a kiss ass to Trump cause it works so well. But Elon's trying to paint him as anti Trump. Elon should be careful. Elon. I have some texts from Elon that are not so positive towards Donald Trump. A lot of them not pro Trump. A lot of them. And then they were. And in this case I think Sam is doing it for. I would imagine, I think a lot of people were pissed at him for doing it and I can see why. But he's definitely all these people, whether it's Bill Gates now in an interview with the head of the Wall Street Journal or Sam are gonna say Trump's gonna be incredible. It's the only way to get through to this guy. But it's interesting that Elon was sort of shoved out a little bit here, which I think is vintage Trump again, I think think a win for Trump to have all these people competing. That's My feeling, yeah.

[Scott Galloway]

But I initially thought that. That, oh, this was Trump saying, I'm on top. But basically, Trump just played the hand he was dealt. This group, I think, was already assembled and already on their way, and he just wanted credit for it. I do think, though, that this is probably the beginning of the end of their bromance, because I don't think Trump likes sharing the mic with anyone. Musk fired Vivek because he didn't want to share the mic with Vivek. Musk is used to doing whatever the fuck he wants. And Trump, when he appoints you to something, and now you're off hogging all of the media echo chamber and you're criticizing his new pet project. I gotta think that Trump and his folks are like, all right, everybody said we couldn't control this guy, but we were under the impression he wouldn't shitpost us five days into the administration. I gotta think that. I gotta think that Trump and his circle are like, okay, this is not.

[Kara Swisher]

But what do they do? They rely on his money. They want to use him as a cudgel against the primaries. They gave him a West Wing office, not an east building office. Fair point.

[Scott Galloway]

So you're saying he's more powerful.

[Kara Swisher]

There's nothing they can do except they kept him out of this meeting. I mean, people there, one of the many people involved, said it was the greatest engineering feat of all time to keep him out. Right. And I think Sam felt emboldened to attack him. Right. Or to make fun of him. Really interesting about Musk, that you really have to understand is he loves to troll people. He loves to troll people. It gives him his greatest pleasure. He loves to. If I do this, what will they do? I've heard out of his mouth so many times, like, it's usually a stupid prank. Right. And that he got pushed back on by Sam, who he's also in a lawsuit with OpenAI, by the way, calls him a liar all the time, et cetera, that he got pushed on. When he gets pushed back on, very typical bully. He gets all mad. He gets all beside himself. He trolls, but he can't take a troll in any way with any sense of humor whatsoever. And so I think that's something Trump will not like. And Sam is a more appealing character. Like, if he's assembling billionaires to have around him, you want the Gateses and the Sams and the Tim Cooks. Musk is a lot. If you have him in proximity, and he takes a lot of attention.

[Scott Galloway]

But my theory, and I talked to you about this and you said you and you may be right here. You're just closer to this and more knowledgeable than I am. I thought that the twofer that Musk was getting, one, he likes to troll and two, he has to push out of the news cycle this Roman salute slash Heil Hitler gesture. He just needs to change. It's like when Don Draper said, if you don't like what people are saying, change the conversation.

[Kara Swisher]

Well, he doesn't want to change the conversation. And Elon seems to be doubling down on the Nazi thing. He put up a post on Thursday morning with all sorts of puns playing on the names of Nazi leaders like Rudolf Hess and Joseph Goebbels and writing. Bet you did not see that coming. That was the least irritating one of all of them. They were really quite a heinous group of stupid jokes about Nazis. Of course. CEO Linda Yaccarino, also known as the quizzling ad lady from Queens, responded with a laughing emoji. There is no low she will not sing to. He's just strange. He's just. I don't know what to say. She is. Anyway. Does he get the benefit of the doubt? I don't know, Scott. You can have your own opinions about this, but he's absolutely what I just said. He's a complete troll and he just wants attention. Focus on him. I think the Trump administration, believe me, which is sort of the Olympics of trolling, doesn't like this because it takes focus on their own troll, who is a much better troll, by the way. And these are not funny jokes. This is a 53 year old man. Let me just underscore this. And he just has to have all the attention on himself and to cause all kinds of controversy on himself. And I think the best thing that has been said of all things. You can like or dislike Sam Altman all you want, but I think his tweet today I thought was sort of said it all. Just one more mean tweet and then maybe you'll love yourself. I actually don't think he will. I think he's a sad, sad man, Elon Musk. And he will never feel loved because he's unlovable, Scott.

[Scott Galloway]

I mean, where I go with this is you don't make jokes about aids. There are certain things that are so painful and so raw and represent so much of the worst of us that you just don't go there beyond the decorum, which he seems to enjoy kind of poking. And some people like that he does that. What this is for me is look at what money has done to us. If you showed up, if you wrote this, if you were a late time TV host and you started making these jokes, if you were the president of a school board or a member of Congress and you started making these jokes, you know, you'd be pretty swiftly reprimanded in your career and your, I don't know, status, your social capital would erode pretty fast. But when you're worth $400 billion, you have your CEO weighing in with a crying emoji because they want money from you. You have your stands weighing in. I just think if you. I go to the whole dad thing. If my son was, if my son was having trouble with drugs, was saying his employees were committing sex crimes when they weren't such that they had to leave their house, living with a gun next to me, not living with any of my 13 kids, and then mocking or making fun or light of the Holocaust, you know, you'd move in, you'd say, look, son, this just isn't. You're not acting like a man. You're causing unnecessary harm to the definition. I like Carlos Chipola. This, you could say is as cruel. What this is is stupid. And that is there's a great matrix. People who help themselves and help others are intelligent. People who help themselves and hurt others are abandoned. See above tech CEOs. People who help others but don't help themselves. Philanthropists slash artists, if you will. People who help people who hurt others and hurt themselves. That's just stupid. This is a definition of stupid. This hurts others and it hurts himself. I'm writing a post about corruption and money for no mercy, no malice. And. And my kind of closing line is, look what money has done to us. I was on my kid's school board and I had the pleasurable assignment of calling someone who I knew and saying, you can no longer drop your kid off at drop off because you cut in line. And it's pissed everybody off.

[Kara Swisher]

The cutting in line.

[Scott Galloway]

Well, yeah, but imagine showing up to a parent teacher night and accidentally making a fucking Nazi gesture. Imagine doing. Try doing that at work and see what happens. By the way, that that gesture in Germany is against the law.

[Kara Swisher]

It is. In any case, Elon, not a good week for you. I don't know when you're gonna break up with Donald Trump, but it doesn't. You probably, you have enough money. The only reason he's still there is there's not quite enough billionaires kissing Trump's ass yet. And once they do, or willing to.

[Scott Galloway]

Spend that kind of money.

[Kara Swisher]

Well, they don't. Like you don't see Sam Altman funding Donald Trump in the next election.

[Scott Galloway]

But does Trump need the money any longer?

[Kara Swisher]

No, he doesn't. So that's the thing. Or unless he wants to be permanent, you know, dictator of the United States. But we'll see. I shouldn't say that in such a glib way. It's scary if that would happen. Let me just ask the last question. Oracle shares jumped over 7% on the heels of the Stargate announcement. And again, Oracle's been behind other people in this area and it's their sweet spot, by the way. SoftBank surged 11%. Nvidia was up more than 4%. This idea of them raising the money, let me just take away, they don't have the money yet. I think they will get the money. And I think Elon was making a point which is vaguely accurate, but he left out the fact that they'll probably get the money because he raises money for all manner of good things and nonsense. Right. So he'll get the money. I think we'll get some of the money, or at least a lot of it. And I think we do need to start doing this stuff on US soil. And it has a great political benefit. So it'll probably be Gulf money, by the way, FYI.

[Scott Galloway]

Well, it already is. There's a Gulf entity in the group.

[Kara Swisher]

Saudi Arabia just said they're going to invest even more in this country, and.

[Scott Galloway]

I hope they do. I want their cheap capital and I want to increase our ties and binds with the Gulf, quite frankly.

[Kara Swisher]

In any case, who benefits the most from this idea of Stargate and projects like this? Because the money is not there in terms of profits. There may be overspending. We've talked about that before.

[Scott Galloway]

Well, I mean, it's easy just to get incredibly excited about AI when you spend any time on it. It does blow your mind. And the applications are just sort of endless. Having said that, the revenues have not kept pace with the valuations. All right? These companies are willing to make these staggering commitments and investments because the last time they made these sort of staggering investments was in the cloud. And the cloud has paid off wildly. So they have the confidence to make these types of investments. Who benefits if America maintains its lead? I was on Diary of a CEO with Stephen Bartlett, and people always ask me, or the question I get the most living in London is, how would you summarize the difference between the US and the uk and the way I would summarize it is my mom and dad in the late 50s, at the age of 19 and 23, got on steamships from Glasgow in London and came to the US with like $300. And I say everyone here, referencing people who are in London, you're the ones that decided to stay. And what I mean by that is that there's $5 million in venture capital for every business started in the US versus 1 million in the US there's five times the number of entrepreneurs. It is in our DNA to take crazy risks like this. And occasionally it ends up being crazy genius in about 90. Name an important AI company that's not in the U.S. okay, list over. And it's because we are willing to make these types of. Take these staggering risks.

[Kara Swisher]

I agree. It's always been like that. It's always. And the same thing with people who stopped in Pennsylvania and didn't go to California. I always think about that, like who stopped and who kept going.

[Scott Galloway]

We don't think small. I was on, on one of my other panelists on Stephen Barlett was this really impressive, intelligent guy named Konstantin, who's kind of, I would call him center right. If not right. But he made a lot of really interesting points. And he said in the UK if you go into a restaurant and you like it, you eat there. In the US if you go into a restaurant and you like it and you have money, you give them your card and you want to open a second, a third and a fifth, you want to try and scale it to 200. And so we benefit from this economic growth. And I think it's amazing and wonderful how, how big. We think a half a trillion dollars.

[Kara Swisher]

There'Ll be a lot of failures. I said that to someone, I said, imagine not investing in the Internet when they were over investing. You know what's interesting is when you talk about that years ago in the UK I went on this thing, it was called Silicon Valley in the UK and we went to Cambridge and Oxford and we did debates at the Oxford, the famous debate series that they had there. And it was me and Reid Hoffman on one side saying deposit was the US or Britain will create the first $1 billion company. It was billion at the time. And that was Reid's in my side was the US would win. And then they had some branching.

[Scott Galloway]

Must have been trillion. You mean trillion.

[Kara Swisher]

No, it was billion at the time. Swear to God it was billion. How long ago was this? It was almost 15, 20 years ago.

[Scott Galloway]

There was billion dollar companies. I'm not gonna split hairs here, but go ahead.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, it was billion. I have the stuff from it. And so who's gonna create the most billion dollar companies? I guess it was in the Internet and, and all Reid and I did is we got up because we're shitty debaters and we're like, we just listed Google. It was early on, before they were really big. And we listed like 20 US companies. And we go England. And that was our whole debate. We still lost, we still got voted against. Cause the British were better talkers than us. But I remember thinking, they're not going to make these here. It was with the guy. Mike Lynch's company was the only one. He died, remember he died in that week. Weird boating accident. His company was the only one that was pretty big.

[Scott Galloway]

Since 2020, our economy has grown 10%. It's barely half of that in Europe and in Germany. In the UK it's like a third of that. And there is something about the culture here and I can't quite figure it out. They have all of the. Well, in America, I'm a beneficiary of this. I raised crazy amounts of money on really stupid fucking ideas. And occasionally one panned out. And not only that, the amazing thing about America is even when my crazy ideas didn't work, as long as you're a good person, as long as you treat people well, you can go raise more money. In Europe, you have one startup failure and you're that guy that was a high flyer but crashed and burned. They're more interested in kind of cutting the daisies or trimming the daisies, whatever the term is. And the US really embraces risk takers.

[Kara Swisher]

We're crazy, cruel and greedy.

[Scott Galloway]

We're the ones who left Kara. We're the ones who said, I'm out of here. I want religious freedom.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah.

[Scott Galloway]

You know, I want to practice breath work. Breath work. I want to wear a bustier.

[Kara Swisher]

Lauren is exemplification of our country. I wore a bustier and I'm proud of it. All right, let's go on a quick break. I love how we come back to Bustier all the time. Bustier. When we come back, we'll talk about TikTok's potential suitors and take a listener mail question on those drones in New Jersey.

[Scott Galloway]

Support for this show comes from Oracle, even if you think it's a bit overhyped. AI is suddenly everywhere from self driving cars to molecular medicine to business efficiency. If it's not in your industry yet, it's coming fast. But AI needs a lot of speed and computing power. So how do you compete without costs spiraling out of control? Time to upgrade to the next generation of the cloud Oracle Cloud Infrastructure, or oci. OCI is a blazing, fast and secure platform for your infrastructure, database, application development, plus all your AI and machine learning workloads. OCI costs 50% less for compute and 80% less for networking, so you're saving a pile of money. Thousands of businesses have already upgraded to oci, including Vodafone, Thomson Reuters and Suno AI. Right now, Oracle is offering to cut your current cloud bill in half if you move to oci for new US customers with minimum financial commitment. Offer ends March 31st. See if your company qualifies for this special [e-mail] Vox that's oracle.com Vox box.

[Kara Swisher]

It'S today Explained I'm Noel King with Miles Bryan, senior reporter and producer for the program.

[Scott Galloway]

Hello. Hi.

[Kara Swisher]

You went to public school, right? Miles?

[Scott Galloway]

Yes.

[Kara Swisher]

Go South High Tigers what do you remember about school lunch? O I remember sad lasagna shrink wrapped in little containers.

[Scott Galloway]

I remember avoiding it.

[Kara Swisher]

Do you remember the nugs? The chicken nuggets? Yeah, if I had to eat school lunch, that was a pretty good option. I actually, actually liked them. But in addition to being very tasty, those nugs were very processed. And at the moment, America has got processed foods in its crosshairs.

[Scott Galloway]

It's true, we are collectively very down on processed food right now, none more so than Health and Human Services Secretary nominee Robert fluoride Kennedy Jr. I'll get processed food out of school lunch immediately. About half the school lunch program goes to process.

[Kara Swisher]

Can the man who once saved a dead bear cub for a snack fix school lunches.

[Scott Galloway]

Today?

[Kara Swisher]

Explained every weekday, wherever you get your podcasts. Scott we're back with our second big story. ByteDance is exploring a deal to keep TikTok running in the US without a sale, according to one of its directors. General Atlantic CEO Bill Ford, who sits on ByteDance's board, told Bloomberg that one of the options is to change in control locally that can comply with U.S. legislation. They're always looking for tricks. Meanwhile, President Trump told reporters he'd be open to elon Musk buying TikTok or Oracle chairman Larry Ellison YouTube star Mr. Beast See, I was right about that. Thank you. YouTube star Mr. Beast is also rumored to be in the mix to buy the app, although his rep says he hasn't officially joined. Any bids or willing to spend a company? What do you think about? Well, Oracle's already in there. Oracle is one of TikTok's leading server providers in recent years, but does Trump.

[Scott Galloway]

Need the money anymore?

[Kara Swisher]

Shut down risk to the company. TikTok is still not on the Apple or Google app stores, and they are not gonna be on the Apple or Google stores. Trump hasn't imposed his promised tariffs on foreign countries just yet. He's threatening to do so by February 1st. Maybe he's gonna hold off to get leverage on the TikTok deal. Very overthoughts. I knew he would say Elon Musk, of course, but Ellison seems an obvious partner in that. And as I said, they're gonna do some deal that hides the fact that China still runs the place. But anyway, your thoughts?

[Scott Galloway]

Look, the criteria for anyone who potentially does a deal here, first and foremost, is capital. And that just sweeps off the deck. Mr. Beast and what's his name, Mr. Wonderful. They're just, hey, look at me. I'm relevant. I have a big idea. There's just no chance in hell you need compute. Oracle brings that. But more than anything, you need China. You need the tcp. And that probably, I hate to say it puts Musk in some other people in a bit of a poll position, because the primary criteria for if and who this gets sold to is who the CCP believes they can control. Yeah, that's true.

[Kara Swisher]

Unless Trump says no ccp. But he's not.

[Scott Galloway]

Well, it'll be a negotiation, but there's just no way they own the asset. You don't have to sell your house if you don't want to. And 20% of the revenues come out of the U.S. there's a lot of pressure, but they will spin this as if it was some sort of great victory. But the only thing I know here is the Chinese are gonna have a lot of influence. And everybody says about Musk, well, he's a child. You gotta give him some break. He has Asperger's. He just says. He's saying. He doesn't mean. Never says anything mean about China.

[Kara Swisher]

China.

[Scott Galloway]

He's got a lot of maturity and discipline around China.

[Kara Swisher]

He does.

[Scott Galloway]

And I think China giving us. You've highlighted this to me.

[Kara Swisher]

He's a fuck. F O C. I was the first person saying he was gonna get it.

[Scott Galloway]

That's China. But you've pointed this out to me. They have real leverage over him because a lot of his factories and a lot of his sales are in China. Or it'll be someone they see as very friendly to their interests. But look, the bottom line is everything has changed because our negotiating leverage has been dramatically reduced. When you say, unless you do the following things, I'm leaving. And the next day your spouse does those things and you don't leave your threats become somewhat hollow and so they know they have the upper hand here. The CCP doesn't need TikTok, doesn't need the capital. Especially when they can say, look guys, you're getting 80% of your capital overseas. We're not going to put up with this shit. If they come up with some sort of accommodation that gives Trump a win.

[Kara Swisher]

That looks like it. Yeah. That looks like it's going to be very. I call it the Elon faint.

[Scott Galloway]

It's going to be a pretzel. This deal is going to be a pretzel if it happens.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah. So one of the things that will be interesting is how senators like Tom Cotton, who've been very adamant that China, who's a China hawk, reacts to whatever the deal happens to be. And if they have get him in on it and say Elon's a great owner, it's over. The second thing, I was just thinking of one the other day that could be. See if you were doing this in a really fair way, the person that you. The company you might give it to is Snapchat, who is very strong in video, has been an innovator. It creates a much more competitive playing field in the area. Here's a company that knows how to do this stuff and is again, meta. Steals ideas from them all the time. I don't know, I just was thinking of them the other day. Give this company an opportunity to really compete. They'd be creative creators, love them, they're based in la, et cetera, et cetera. That was my weird thought of the day.

[Scott Galloway]

It is a weird thought. That's like giving a. A bazooka to an eight year old.

[Kara Swisher]

No way. They have been the most innovative in these spaces.

[Scott Galloway]

No, no. What I mean by what I mean it was the wrong analogy. Evan is a super smart guy, super creative. You know, my guess is he would do a pretty good job managing it. They don't have the capital or the compute.

[Kara Swisher]

No, with capital, with partners. I'm just thinking that's who would make it something really interesting. That's all I'm saying is it would be. And then you'd sort of have a competitor to Instagram. You'd have a real competitor that's US owned. Then you have a real competition and you get better products. I just was like that my idea.

[Scott Galloway]

And I'm name dropping. I met with Ted Sarandis and I'm like, if you want to be a trillion dollar company, you should, you should start a competitor to TikTok. And you should take all of your 99%. Take all of your 99% that doesn't get viewed, chop it into little digestible bits and start a Netflix, start a TikTok competitor called Great Idea called Net Vibes or something like that. I think actually the best partner here would be a giant compute company and.

[Kara Swisher]

Oh, that's a great one. Another one. Mark Cuban's sort of trying to put something together using Blue sky protocols. I love competition. And so that's all I'm thinking of it like giving it to Elon is just such a weird gimme and thank you. And he would not innovate on it and he will ruin it. And so I want it to be a really good competitor to Instagram. I want there to be a US owned competitor to Instagram. I love the Snapchat idea. I really like the Netflix idea. That's a great idea. I like what Mark Cuban's doing. It should not go to Elon. He will wreck it. And it's a gimme and a payback for its correct corruption again. And it's the worst thing. And then the Chinese will have much more control over it. I don't think there's any deal done without Oracle involved.

[Scott Galloway]

Netflix has a $420 billion market cap. Say they paid 80. That's like a 15%. What is that? 15, 20% dilution. It's kind of worth it.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah. Without the algorithm.

[Scott Galloway]

And they have all the content.

[Kara Swisher]

And they should buy Snapchat. That's who should buy Snapchat. Think about that.

[Scott Galloway]

Netflix should buy Snap.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah. And then get out and do that there too. And they also get TikTok.

[Scott Galloway]

Anyway, I don't think Netflix wants to be in the business of messaging kids, but.

[Kara Swisher]

I know, but they do a lot. They're doing a ton of videos. They're doing a ton.

[Scott Galloway]

Ted had the right response. He's like, scott, we're killing it. And we use TikTok to market our products. You know, why do I need to get distracted? And, you know, I mean, that's always as evidenced by the fact that they just increased their subscriber base 17% year on year.

[Kara Swisher]

Thanks for the tip, Scott. You know, it's like. It's like giving a tip to Michael Jordan.

[Scott Galloway]

Hey, it reminds me, if you spin.

[Kara Swisher]

Your ball just a little bit more with your thumb, you know, you might have a better shot or something.

[Scott Galloway]

Now, I remember saying to I, you know, in my past life, I was a consultant and I used to consult to the CEOs of big consumer brands. And I remember meeting with Johan Rupert, and they prepared me and it was this big deal. And he's the head of Richemont. He's kind of this larger than life character with this deep, rumbly voice. And all of his brands, from Cartier to Panerai, they have kind of the best watch brands in the world. I said, you have to get on the Internet. You have to establish this as a distribution channel. This is like 10 years ago. And he's like, let's just. Listen to me. He's like. He's like, young man, I can't find enough parts in Switzerland for my watches. I don't have to do anything. He's like. He's like, my watches are sold out. Yeah, I don't, you know, and you're telling me I have to be on the Internet? He's like, no, I don't have to do anything.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, that was.

[Scott Galloway]

That was pre Apple watch, by the way. That's true.

[Kara Swisher]

No, FYI, they're still going to buy this guy's watches. But let me just say, let's go around and give tips to really successful people.

[Scott Galloway]

Well, isn't that what this show is? Isn't that what pivot is? Unsolicited advice.

[Kara Swisher]

Let's guide people who are really killing it and say.

[Scott Galloway]

I start almost every sentence with my friends. I think, look, I'm really good at running other people's lives, so let me tell you what you should do.

[Kara Swisher]

Okay, let's pivot to a listener question so we can advise them. This question comes from Kelly. Let's listen.

[Scott Galloway]

Hi, Kara and Scott.

[Kara Swisher]

So my name is Kelly Applegate Nichols, and I live in Champaign, Illinois.

[Scott Galloway]

I don't know if you need to.

[Kara Swisher]

Know that or not, but I'm calling.

[Scott Galloway]

To say that of all the things.

[Kara Swisher]

That Trump said, I am very disappointed that he did not tell us what the mystery drones in New Jersey are, because he said that he was going to do that on day one. So I want to know, what do you two think about the mystery drones?

[Scott Galloway]

Thank you.

[Kara Swisher]

I love you guys. Bye. Oh, that's funny. I just interviewed Mayorkas, Secretary Mayorkas, who was Biden's director. We talked a lot about the mystery drones. Apparently, they were private drones. People were flying. That's what he seemed to indicate. I agree. Why didn't they tell him? Trump has said he's going to shoot them down if they come back. I guess that's the shoot first, ask questions later. Of course, people on the ground could be killed, which is why Orca Said that's why they didn't shoot them down. I don't know. What do you think, Scott? Any quick drone thoughts? What do you think? And by the way, we love Champaign, Illinois.

[Scott Galloway]

I just like the name Urbana, Illinois, or the Illini.

[Kara Swisher]

She sounds like she's from Illinois, by the way.

[Scott Galloway]

Look, this reminds me of a couple personal experiences because I don't talk enough about me on this show, but I was in Mammoth Mountain when I was like 16 on a high school skiing trip, and this. What was at the time, a stealth bomber came rolling over the mountain.

[Kara Swisher]

Oh, those are scary.

[Scott Galloway]

Well, you'd never seen a picture of one before. A friend of mine went down the.

[Kara Swisher]

One went down the mall once when I was living here. George Bush's administration. It was terrifying.

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah, but in 1980, whatever, it was, 85 or I don't know what, with these things. A friend of mine went to work for Lockheed Martin Marioto, and he's like. I remember him telling me, I go into this weird place through an elevator in a hangar, and I'm like, wow, you must see. You know, I've seen a bunch of cool stuff in aviation. And he's like, no one has ever seen any of this shit anyways. I remember seeing it and thinking, wow, our government does a lot of weird things. I wouldn't be surprised if there's some sort of government surveillance drones. The honest answer is I don't know. But what was one of the most enjoyable flights I've ever taken? I used to commute from Delray beach to New York, and I was flying up and I saw a bunch of fighter jets rolling the other way. And then I looked up and they said, the pilot said, up to Your right, around 11:00 is the balloon. And you pilot by the balloon. I went by the balloon and I looked up and it said, we're calling about extending your automobiles insurance plan. No, just kidding. And then literally 30 minutes later, they shot it out of the sky.

[Kara Swisher]

Shot it out. I had to wait till it's somewhere safe. You know, Trump's not gonna do this. He makes all kinds of demented promises. What I want from him, I think they're probably private commercial things that were just up there fucking with people to see what would happen. Maybe they were a government thing. I know they couldn't have shot them down. With areas of people. You just can't do that because you'll kill a kid or something like that. I want him to tell us who killed jfk. And I'd like to know, to see an alien. Those are the two things I want out of this administration.

[Scott Galloway]

Who invented bitcoin? I'd like to know that.

[Kara Swisher]

Who invented bitcoin?

[Scott Galloway]

That the CIA did that, too. The CIA is the only organization in the world that can keep it secret.

[Kara Swisher]

Okay, for the rest of you listeners, it's time for this week's thriller. This one's open ended. Who do you think will be the next member of Trump's inner orbit to get the boot? Oh, that's good. Let us know. Vid. What is your choice?

[Scott Galloway]

I don't know. I don't know. Who's going to go first? I haven't really thought about it. Have you thought about it?

[Kara Swisher]

I don't know. Probably Eric. Anyway, visit us at Pivot podcast official on threads to answer.

[Scott Galloway]

Oh, Kash Patel. I think it's going to be over before it starts. I do think there is a line. I think think they like him.

[Kara Swisher]

They like him. He was loyal to Trump when he was on the ounce.

[Scott Galloway]

And again, I said that about Pete Hexseth. But in honor of Pete Hexseth, I last night tried to do five sets of 47 pushups and tonight I couldn't do it. I got through three tonight. I'm going to start with a gin and tonic and see if it helps.

[Kara Swisher]

Okay?

[Scott Galloway]

And I'm going to do five sets of 47.

[Kara Swisher]

All right, good luck. If you've got a question of your own you'd like answered, send it our way. Go to nymag.com pivot to submit a question for the show or call 85551, pivot. All right, Scott, one more quick break. We'll be back for predictions. Okay, Scott, let's hear a prediction.

[Scott Galloway]

I just want to call balls and strikes here. I've been indignant, outraged, incredibly upset about this. These meme coins, that is 3D level chess compared to the checkers of the corruption of Speaker Pelosi. And the most recent example of Speaker Pelosi's corruption is Tempus AI, which is a healthcare AI company announced on Tuesday or it became public on Tuesday that Speaker Pelosi, who is in confidential hearings about where Medicaid is going to spend their money. It's not unthinkable that she saw Tempus on a list of where they might be investing in AI diagnostics and care management. And it comes out that parties affiliated with Speaker Emerita Pelosi bought 50 to $100,000 of call options in Tempus AI when that was announced on Tuesday. Tempus AI had its biggest gain in its history. It was up 35%. That is bullshit. Now granted, if you're going to abuse your position, do it for billions. Like Trump. Trump and his is more outrageous and more brazen. But this is the same flavor of the same sorbet. And that sorbet is corruption. It is an abuse of power for have the speaker of the House buying call options on a company that could be getting hundreds of millions of dollars from our agencies. So this is a bipartisan issue here, this corruption. Okay, enough of my ranting. My prediction is the following. Oracle has officially been invited to the grownups table. They trade at a price to sales ratio of about 8. Microsoft's at 13. OpenAI's at 40. Nvidia's I think at 28. Anthropic, interestingly enough, trades at more like 60 to 90, depending on how you define revenues. Oracle's at 8. Oracle is a great company, great revenues, great management, and they're going to start to get the peanut butter and chocolate right now. Of a kleptocracy are one, proximity to Trump and two, and this is a kleptocracy is how close you are to the epicenter of AI. And now Oracle, with its proximity to Trump and its credibility in AI being invited into Stargate is going to result in multiple expansion. I think in the next 90 days Oracle is going to outperform its peers.

[Kara Swisher]

All right. Oh, that's a good one. That's a great one. Okay. All right. That's an interesting choice. And I would agree. I think they've been behind. They have been behind and now they're trying to make a move and using Altman to do so.

[Scott Galloway]

The speaker is buying call options.

[Kara Swisher]

I got it, I got it, I got it, I got it. Nope, they shouldn't be doing this. At the very least, it's a perception thing anyway. Elsewhere in the Karen Scott universe, this week, this week on Prof. G Markets, Scott spoke with Rich Greenfield, partner and media and technology analyst at LightShed Partners. He's very smart. Let's listen.

[Scott Galloway]

I think it's highly likely that you're gonna end 2025 and TikTok is still gonna exist. Will there be some subtle shifts in its ownership? You know the word salad that came out of Trump when he was signing the executive orders about needing to own or someone in the US owning 50%. It's hard to understand what that means, Ed, because TikTok is already 58% owned by international investors, well known International invest.

[Kara Swisher]

Yep, that's right. It's going to be some deal that is just a feint. It's going to be all a faint and we are still in danger of China having influence over our world. Good job. Rich is really smart. Okay, Scott, that's the show. We'll be back on Tuesday with more Pivot. Can you read us out?

[Scott Galloway]

Today's show is produced by Lara Neiman, Zoe Marcus and Taylor Griffin. Ernie and her Todd engineered this episode. Thanks also to Drew Burrows, Ms. Siberio and Dan Nishak. Kirwa is Fox Media's executive producer of audio. Make sure you're subscribed to the show wherever you listen to podcasts. Thanks for listening to Pivot from New York Magazine and Vox Media. You can subscribe to the [e-mail] pod we'll be back next week for another breakdown of all things tech and business. We're headed to the movies. We'd like Lauren Sanchez to sit in between us.