OpenAI Abandons For-Profit Plans, Disney and Uber Earnings, and Meta’s “Creepy” AI

Summary

Pivot Podcast Summary: "OpenAI Abandons For-Profit Plans, Disney and Uber Earnings, and Meta’s 'Creepy' AI"

Release Date: May 9, 2025

Hosts: Kara Swisher and Scott Galloway

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1. Introduction

In this episode of Pivot, Kara Swisher and Scott Galloway delve into a multitude of pressing topics spanning the realms of technology, geopolitics, business earnings, and the ethical implications of artificial intelligence. Skipping the introductory advertisements, the hosts promptly engage in their signature banter, setting the stage for an insightful discussion.

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2. OpenAI's Strategic Shift

Timestamp: [10:01]

The episode kicks off with a significant update regarding OpenAI's organizational structure. OpenAI has decided to transition its for-profit subsidiary into a public benefit corporation, maintaining control under its nonprofit parent. This move comes after consultations with civic leaders and attorneys generals from California and Delaware.

• Scott Galloway remarks, “Elon Musk has absolutely catalyzed this... They go back and say, no, we're a not for profit, but they're lifting the cap on when the for profit is entitled to the profits of above $100 billion..." ([15:19])

• Kara Swisher adds, “They said the for profit corporation board and the nonprofit board will be the same people. Nothing changes here.” ([15:35])

This restructuring is seen as a maneuver to balance the need for substantial investments while adhering to OpenAI's mission-driven roots. Despite Elon Musk's attempts to block the restructuring, his influence appears limited as he did not pursue the lawsuit further.

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3. Geopolitical Tensions: India and Pakistan

Timestamp: [08:23] – [10:59]

Kara and Scott discuss the escalating military tensions between India and Pakistan following India's retaliatory strikes in Kashmir. With both nations being nuclear powers, the potential for widespread economic and political repercussions is substantial.

• Kara references an interview with Christiane Amanpour, emphasizing the complexity added by US trade deals and China's staunch support for Pakistan.

• Scott emphasizes the gravity of nuclear-armed nations clashing, stating, “Whenever there's a border skirmish with nuclear powers, you have to take it very seriously.” ([10:01])

The conversation highlights concerns over global stability, potential impacts on oil and gold prices, and the intricate web of international alliances.

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4. Cybersecurity Lapses Among Public Figures

Timestamp: [36:09] – [39:44]

The hosts transition to discussing notable cybersecurity failures among prominent political figures:

• Tulsi Gabbard and Pete Hegseth were found using easily crackable passwords across multiple accounts, raising alarms about the security of sensitive national information.

• Scott criticizes these lapses, especially given their roles in intelligence and defense, asserting, “This guy does not appear to be invested in our success by virtue of the fact he's just so reckless.” ([28:23])

The discussion underscores the importance of stringent cybersecurity practices, particularly for individuals with access to classified information.

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5. Disney and Uber Earnings Reports

Timestamp: [49:23] – [51:33]

Kara and Scott analyze the latest financial performances of Disney and Uber:

• Disney reported a substantial revenue increase of 7% year-over-year, with net income surging to $3.2 billion from a previous $20 million loss. This turnaround is attributed to higher streaming profits, successful home video sales like "Moana 2," and strategic expansions such as a new theme park in Abu Dhabi.

  • Scott notes, “Disney's stock popped 10%. Streaming is no longer a sinkhole of capital and our parks business which is truly differentiated and singular is killing it.” ([50:55])

• Uber saw a 14% increase in revenue to $11.5 billion, slightly missing Wall Street expectations. However, their collaboration with autonomous driving companies signals a strategic pivot towards future technologies.

  • Scott summarizes, “The autonomous wars have been slow and now it feels like we're on the eve of war among autonomous companies.” ([49:53])

These earnings reflect resilience and strategic adaptability in the face of evolving market dynamics.

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6. Meta’s "Creepy" AI App

Timestamp: [57:11] – [60:35]

A critical segment focuses on Meta's new AI application, which leverages personal data from platforms like Facebook and Instagram to deliver highly personalized interactions. Concerns are raised about privacy and the ethical use of user data.

• Kara shares, “I would never use their AI app... I am not loading up like what I ate for lunch yesterday to Meta.” ([20:22])

• Scott counterbalances this by expressing some optimism about AI’s potential, though he remains wary of its societal impacts, particularly on loneliness and human relationships.

  • Scott states, “The biggest threat of AI is that it's going to speedball loneliness.” ([59:20])

The hosts debate the fine line between personalized AI benefits and the erosion of personal privacy.

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7. Listener Predictions and Economic Insights

Timestamp: [17:55] – [55:44]

Throughout the episode, listeners contribute predictions on various topics:

• Matt Marr predicts that Meta's Llama will outperform other AI models like GPT due to its open-source nature and extensive data integration. Both hosts find merit in this argument, recognizing Meta's substantial investment in AI infrastructure.

• Rich from Oakland, California, forecasts a potential recession worse than 2008, driven by tariffs, inflation, and stagflationary pressures. Scott discusses the likelihood of a recession versus stagflation, emphasizing the uncertainty surrounding tariff impacts.

• A humorous yet light-hearted prediction from Mike speculates on Scott's personal grooming habits, adding a touch of levity to the episode.

---

8. Critique of Donald Trump’s Crypto Ventures

Timestamp: [60:35] – [68:35]

A robust critique is leveled against former President Donald Trump’s cryptocurrency initiatives, specifically the launch of Trump Coin and World Liberty Financial. The hosts expose alleged insider trading, market manipulation, and the disproportionate financial gains for Trump and his affiliates at the expense of smaller investors.

• Scott declares, “This will be the greatest grift in an economy over a shorter period of time that has ever taken place.” ([68:32])

• Kara agrees, highlighting the transparency issues and the detrimental effects on the broader market.

The discussion paints a picture of systemic corruption intertwined with emerging financial technologies, raising questions about regulatory oversight and ethical governance.

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9. Bill Gates’ Philanthropic Endeavors

Timestamp: [41:04] – [46:58]

The podcast also touches on philanthropist Bill Gates' recent commitment to devoting $200 billion towards ending preventable deaths, eradicating infectious diseases, and alleviating poverty by 2045. This initiative is contrasted with his earlier critiques of governmental aid cuts.

• Scott praises Gates, saying, “Bill Gates has become kinder... The worst thing that can happen in a society is where you create a gestalt where... I can save tens of millions of lives because...” ([43:33])

• Kara reflects on Gates' transformation from a business mogul to a dedicated philanthropist, acknowledging his complex personality and substantial impact on global health initiatives.

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10. Closing Remarks and Humor

Timestamp: [68:43] – [70:10]

The episode concludes with lighthearted exchanges about personal grooming habits, showcasing the hosts' camaraderie and ability to infuse humor into serious discussions.

• Kara advises, “Keep it clean for the ladies.” ([69:59])

• Scott humorously shares personal anecdotes about manscaping, adding a relatable and entertaining twist to the closing segments.

---

Conclusion

This episode of Pivot offers a comprehensive exploration of pivotal developments in technology, international relations, business performance, and the ethical landscapes of AI and cryptocurrency. Through incisive analysis and candid dialogue, Kara Swisher and Scott Galloway provide listeners with a nuanced understanding of the forces shaping our world in 2025.

Notable Quotes:

• “Whenever there's a border skirmish with nuclear powers, you have to take it very seriously.” — Scott Galloway ([10:01])
• “Elon Musk has absolutely catalyzed this...” — Scott Galloway ([15:19])
• “The biggest threat of AI is that it's going to speedball loneliness.” — Scott Galloway ([59:20])
• “This will be the greatest grift in an economy over a shorter period of time that has ever taken place.” — Scott Galloway ([68:32])

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End of Summary

Transcript

[Kara Swisher]

Support for this show comes from Smartsheet. Have you ever wondered about all the incremental steps it takes to launch a rocket ship or maybe get a race car around a track or perform a life changing surgery? These feats of human ingenuity are executed by many people, taking many steps that lead up to one big goal, making the seemingly impossible possible. Whether you're organizing a team, scaling a business, or sending a rover across the solar system, smartsheet is a work management platform that helps all those details turn into one big leap. Smartsheet work with Flow. Learn more at smartsheet.com Vox Support for this show comes from HubSpot. Growing a business can feel impossible, but HubSpot's customer platform can help. It's powered by Breez, their suite of AI tools, so you can generate more leads, close more deals and scale your service fast. With Breeze agents handling the busy work, customers are cutting sales cycles in half and saving hours on work each week. Best of all, you see the results in days, not months. Visit HubSpot.comai to learn more. As marketing channels have multiplied, the demand for content has skyrocketed. But everyone can make content that's on brand and stands out. With Adobe Express, you don't have to be a designer to generate images, rewrite text and create effects. That's the beauty of generative AI that's commercially safe. Teams all across your business will be psyched to collaborate and create amazing presentations, videos, social posts, flyers and more. Meet Adobe Express, the quick and easy app to create on brand content. Learn [e-mail] Express Business Scott is speechless, which is excellent. Hi everyone, this is Pivot from New York magazine and the Vox Media podcast network. I'm Kara Swisher and I get a.

[Scott Galloway]

Call from this iconic media company that is doing or a reporter there, and I won't say which company that is doing a profile on Kara Swisher.

[Kara Swisher]

You've had one there.

[Scott Galloway]

And her first question was, what qualities make Kara such an amazing leader? And I'm like, oh fuck, this is gonna be rough. This is. I literally. I'm not exaggerating, Kara. I went and made myself a drink. I'm like, okay, okay, this is how it's gonna go. This is how it's gonna go. And it was literally like getting in a colonoscopy without anesthetic. I just sat there and said, okay, it's gonna be over soon. It's gonna be over soon.

[Kara Swisher]

Did you embarrass me? My instructions to you were to em in some fashion.

[Scott Galloway]

Well, here's the thing when you do these things, what you realize is it's entirely up to them. They could twist your words anyway. Yeah. And they could use, you know, one or two things I said to support some narrative that was negative or. But I definitely got the feeling it's going to be a giant puff piece, but we'll see.

[Kara Swisher]

No, it's not. No. I have a very complex. You know, they'll find someone who deserves.

[Scott Galloway]

Oh, I'm not saying you deserve a puff piece.

[Kara Swisher]

I gave them recommendations of people who don't like me. I'm like, they're going to give you an off the record piece on me, so you might as well just call them.

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I do the same thing. But I just make sure they're. I, I'm a big believer in what FDR said, and that is, please judge me by my enemies. I love giving out the names of some people who hate me.

[Kara Swisher]

I'm like, here's who's going to say something to me. Nice on the record, not nice off the record. Here's someone who's going to, you know, I gave him a range of people. I think it's focused on me helping people get away from old media. I think that's my impression.

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah. They wanted to talk about the people you've nurtured and all that stuff.

[Kara Swisher]

A lot. There are quite a lot. Yeah. Including you, Scott Galloway.

[Scott Galloway]

Yes, that's right. Although I was never really in media. I was.

[Kara Swisher]

No, you weren't. I brought you.

[Scott Galloway]

Look, I always say the same thing. I'm like, the most rewarding thing about our relationship is that it is very purposeful and nice to resuscitate someone's flagging career. And that has been very nice for me. I saw that you were struggling and I thought, okay, if Tina Fey can do this for Alec Baldwin, there's no reason that Scott Galloway can't do it for Kara Swisher.

[Kara Swisher]

I know. Thank you so much. I just, I'm in so much in your debt. I was struggling. I do have to say, often a lot of people are like, I really helped you.

[Scott Galloway]

I'm like, success has many fathers and failure as an orphan. I remember, I remember working at Levi Strauss and company in the 90s, and this is the weakest flex in the world, but the fastest zero to billion apparel brand at that point. And then the fastest one after that was Old Navy, but before that, the fastest one what apparel brand? It's literally the lamest apparel brand in history, but it was the fastest zero to a Billion apparel brand and was owned by Levi Strauss and company. It wasn't Levi's. You know what it was?

[Kara Swisher]

What? Jordache.

[Scott Galloway]

No. It was like screaming to the world, don't have sex with me. It was. Do you remember Dockers?

[Kara Swisher]

I love Dockers.

[Scott Galloway]

Oh, God, don't say that. Jesus, stop. Please make her stop.

[Kara Swisher]

They had extra pockets.

[Scott Galloway]

The thing is, I can totally see that. I can totally see you in Dockers. Oh, my God.

[Kara Swisher]

They were very comfortable.

[Scott Galloway]

Oh, my God.

[Kara Swisher]

I literally have the same clothes since high school.

[Scott Galloway]

Anyone who believes being gay is anything to do with nurture, it is so nature. You were literally born in Dockers, weren't you?

[Kara Swisher]

I was. I love Dockers.

[Scott Galloway]

Dockers. And I'm not even gonna try and describe the kind of lesbian fashion or lashes.

[Kara Swisher]

They had extra pockets. That's all I remember.

[Scott Galloway]

Anyways, back to me. I would walk around. Levi Strossenkami was my biggest consulting client or profit for like two years in the 90s. And everybody, everybody would introduce themselves as the founder of Dockers because it had been so successful. There would be like nine people who were the. Not the co founder, but the founder of Dockers. Everybody dec that they had started this idea and it's so interesting. It basically took advantage of this huge trend, and that was casual work. Friday was the stay at home, the work from home Trend in the 90s. And men had no fucking idea how to dress for it. And Dacher said, just trust us, I.

[Kara Swisher]

Use them as fan, you know, we went to this party last night for Keith McNally. He has a Minetta Tavern here. What a great restaurant, by the way. And he's lovely, let me just say. And he's written this astonishing. It's the best book party I've been to. Cause it was not about the book, but they read from the book. Richard E. Grant read sections from it and everything else. And it was great food. They said it was dinner adjacent. And then it was bigger than any dinner I've ever eaten. And he's, you know, I don't know if you know this. He had a stroke. We chatted about it quite a bit. He has much more issues around speaking and one of his sides of his body. But just a beautiful book that he's written. And they had music and food and everything else really fun. But I wore like such sloppy clothes. And I said, Amanda's like, oh, I should dress up a little bit. I said, no matter what you do, I will be more underdressed. And she goes, oh, okay. And felt better. I show up in like almost pajamas to parties now.

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah. You can get away with that, though. It's sort of your brain.

[Kara Swisher]

I know I can. I don't know why I dress up.

[Scott Galloway]

Every once in a while.

[Kara Swisher]

No, not really. Not really. I'm going to get my Dockers and find them and wear them with you on something.

[Scott Galloway]

We do, I think literally, I think that we should officially. I think if Vogue ever decides we've just fucking had it with this Met Gala bullshit and they want to jump to sh. They should invite us. They should absolutely invite. We would literally put an end to that whole thing.

[Kara Swisher]

We would put an end to it. Oh, my God. Anna Winter.

[Scott Galloway]

Anna Winter, if you're listening, if you need a reason to retire, I'm going.

[Kara Swisher]

To somehow get that message to her that she should invite us. Maybe they'll do a tech one and then we'll show up as like a. We'll dress like Elon or something.

[Scott Galloway]

Back to me. So in the 90s, when I started Red Envelope, and because I had a shaved head, I was white, had outdoor plumbing and a pretty good gab, I could raise tens, if not hundreds of millions of dollars to my crazy e commerc startups. And I'd raised so much fucking money for Red Envelope and we'd all, you know, I was the brand guy, so I thought, oh, we got to build a brand. So my college roommate, David Carey, who was the head of magazines, I think at Conde Nast, he'd always been just a lovely guy. We were friends. But I used to fly to New York because I wanted to hang out in New York and spend overspend on Vanity Fair and Vogue magazine. These ads for Red Envelope and literally the weapon was the coolest place on the planet was the Vogue cafeteria. Did you ever eat there?

[Kara Swisher]

Oh, it's. Oh, yeah, it was beautiful.

[Scott Galloway]

And it was all these ridiculously beautiful women and hot gay men. And then Cy Newhouse and Anna Winter would be sitting in the corner and you'd walk in. I remember thinking, I gotta move to New York. And I would buy these $120,000 a page ads. I don't even know if they worked or not, but I just wanted to go to lunch with my friend David Carey. I probably spent 7 or 8 million bucks of other people's money just so I couldn't get it.

[Kara Swisher]

And then you got to eat in the cafeteria. Well, that's nice. That's a good thing.

[Scott Galloway]

At the Con Andes cafeteria.

[Kara Swisher]

We've got a lot to get to today, so we gotta move on. Including Meta's creepy new AI app, Pete Hegseth and Tulsi Gabbard's continuing sloppiness around like digital privacy and protection of their stuff and Disney's latest earnings. But first, tensions between India and Pakistan are escalating after India launched military strikes against targets in Pakistan this week in retaliation for deadly attack in Kashmir. This conflict is happening at a pivotal economic moment. India is doing trade deals with the US and the UK And Pakistan is emerging from a years long financial crisis. You've also got China recently, recently allied with Pakistan, recently calling Pakistan an ironclad friend and an all weather strategic cooperative partner. For his part, President Trump has offered to help to defuse things, saying if I can do anything to help, I'll be there. Of course, the Trumps themselves are doing some deal with Pakistan too, a personal deal. So there's that thrown in there. Both countries are nuclear powers. I in fact interviewed Christiane Amanpour, so I'm gonna channel whatever she says in my comments and pretend they're mine. Yesterday she had a to, you know, it was an interesting interview, but this is sort of the day's conflict. Any thoughts?

[Scott Galloway]

Well, yeah, whenever there's a border skirmish with nuclear powers, you have to take it very seriously. And on a much less substantive level, India is a big trading partner with us on the economy. You could see oil prices and gold prices skyrocket with that kind of instability. But when two nuclear powers who border each other start, you know, arguing, it's very scary. And it can all be sort of reverse engineered to of course the west, specifically the uk UK dividing up India into Pakistan in a very sloppy way that's created all sorts of religious and regional tensions and fights over Kashmir. And China will probably or China is a very strong ally. They describe themselves as an ironclad friend of Pakistan. India has very strong relationships with Japan and Israel and the uae. I just hope the adults show up and diffuse the tensions because typically these types of crazy conflicts are real exogenous shocks. It's not the shit you're worried about that gets you, it's just shit you're not thinking about.

[Kara Swisher]

Well, you know, Chrisean was saying that it requires really good diplomacy and she's worried about the Trump administration because the US has always been a key person here. And she said into a vacuum something always flows. And so that would be China. And you know, there are these complications of the Trump's personal financial interests in the countries and it just makes a big mess of it. And she was worried there wasn't someone who could like, they'll send in that idiot Steve Witkoff or someone like that to deal with it rather than someone more competent. And if Stephen Miller becomes the national Security advisor, I mean seriously. So over his skis and doesn't like brown people from what I can tell. And so it's a real problem if you don't have the US in real fighting shape among these people to sort of shut the whole thing down. And it's another one of these conflicts, the next one will be possibly Taiwan. And so there's gonna be one conflict after the next as China starts to really flex its power, especially as its economy is suffering because of the tariffs. It want to expand elsewhere, I think anyway, we're not experts on this, but I would recommend listening to Scott interviews, lots of foreign experts and I just did Christian and so listen to them. But still troubling for the stock market, for the economies and for stability in general with all the different conflicts around the world. I thought he was going to be the settle it president, but I guess not. OpenAI will abandon plans to place its AI business under control of a for profit entity. Instead it will transform its for profit subsidiary into a public benefit corporation controlled by the nonprofit parent, which I think was. They were considering a lot of things. The decision was made after talking to Civic leaders and AGs of California and Delaware who would need to sign off on the plan. Obviously they didn't like what was, you know, the possibilities. Sam Altman CEO Sam Altman said the changes will still allow the company to access $30 billion investments from SoftBank. As a reminder, Elon Musk has been attempting to block the company's restructuring. His lawyer says the announcement changes nothing, which means he didn't really care about the nonprofit part if this is what they're doing. Obviously he wants his vague. That's what Elon Musk wants. I talked to Sam and Brett Taylor about it and I think I was like, this is a back walk. They were like, no, because we were considering lots of things. Then we got feedback and we made the decision and said that the Musk thing had nothing to do with it. And it was evidence by the fact that Musk didn't pull the lawsuit. They did this and they felt like they still had enough ability to, you know, to raise money. I think their issue is they've got to raise money and at the same time reward people. And then they have a lot of people feeling they should stay true to their original roots, which was a mission driven company. So probably, it probably will be a Good thing for them to get this in their rearview mirror and then move on. But I don't know if you have.

[Scott Galloway]

Any thoughts, so I'd love to speak to prepar someone who's close to the issue. But my general take on first blush is the following. And that is Elon Musk has absolutely catalyzed this. And that is just as there's lawfare, I think this is what I would refer to as nomenclature fare and that is the attorney general essentially told OpenAI that their proposed transition doesn't fit the strict criteria for transition from a nonprofit to a for profit. And so effectively what they've done is by saying, oh no, just kidding. We're one of these ridiculous private benefit corporations that a bunch of VCs could virtue signal and say, I still want on the money, but I want to pretend I'm actually helping humanity. I think it's the most ridiculous corporate classification in history. They go back and say, no, we're a not for profit, but they're lifting the cap on when the for profit is entitled to the profits of above $100 billion, which I think only three companies have ever achieved. So this effectively from a mechanical situation or the complexion of the company, the operations or the shareholder governance has absolutely no impact, but I think somewhat inoculates them from the kind of the white meat of Musk's accusations in his case. I think the lawyers came back and said, okay, fine, tell Musk and his lawyers, oh, just kidding, you win. We're still a nonprofit, but it's not gonna change anything we do practically.

[Kara Swisher]

No, let's. Let me tell you something. They said the for profit corporation board and the nonprofit board will be the same people. Right? And so, you know, it's usually this nonprofit has hegemony over the for profit corporation now, but it's the same board, it's the same.

[Scott Galloway]

Nothing changes here. Except OpenAI's lawyers can say, oh, we are a not for profit. He has no case. That's how I read it.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah. Except he didn't pull the case. Cause he wants the honor, of course, but he didn't do it to help anybody at all. Helped himself to help himself or slow them down. That's what he did it for.

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah, I think that's right.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah. So we'll see. I think it'll give them. Everyone else will back off and he will just continue because he thinks he's owed more. I think that's really at the heart of his case, is he thinks he created it and funded it and deserves more money. From it, when in fact he walked away. He walked away?

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah. Seller's remorse. One of the biggest mistakes ever in terms of just pure wealth is he said, I'm out of here. And he said he signed away the company ironclad documents. He's out.

[Kara Swisher]

Which he did with Twitter. Remember he was gonna buy it and then he pretended.

[Scott Galloway]

My house in San Francisco is next to where Mark Zuckerberg moved. And I bought it for $760,000. And 24 months later, when I moved to New York so I could spend more time in the condon s cafeteria, I sold it for $950,000. And I thought it was the fucking greatest real estate investor in history. Kara, it is worth substantially more now.

[Kara Swisher]

It is. I live in that neighborhood.

[Scott Galloway]

Okay? It's worth substantially more. This is absolutely no different in terms of legal veracity than if I went back and said, I want my house back. I want my house back.

[Kara Swisher]

I want the money my house is worth.

[Scott Galloway]

I want my house back. You owe me. It's gone up. I know. I signed legal documents transferring ownership of this asset. And private property laws are pretty detailed. But I've decided because I fucked up selling it, that I want it back, or at least I want some money.

[Kara Swisher]

He threw his fucking tizzy and lost money. And they're pulling way ahead. I mean, ChatGPT is really. The numbers are really quite startling in terms of the usage. They're obviously spending money too. This is really. But it feels like they're really pulling ahead in the that regard. And they're gonna get. They're gonna get. There's one of the things someone was like, why is it so chaotic? I'm like, you were not around for Google and then they were fine. You know what I mean? Like, I think they're probably on a Google trajectory and not a Netscape trajectory, but Google was a fucking chaos monkey of a shithouse for a long, long time. And before they settled in and went. Anyway, before we move on, we're gonna be listening to some predictions from listeners today. Just so you know, we asked listeners to give them predictions. Cause I'm trying to replace you quietly. So let's list one now because we're already on the topic.

[Matt Marr]

Hey, Karen Scott, Matt Marr here from M7. And my prediction is on the AI arms race and which model will win in the long run. It's not going to be GPT, even if it's the superior product. Not Gemini, not Claude, it will be Meta's Llama. It's the only model that is truly Open source, which means it will be the technical layer of infrastructure developers and vibe coders can build upon. And oh yeah, they can flip a switch and connect your entire social graph through the decades of data they've collected on you. So, so Open Source plus Social is, as Scott would say, the peanut butter and chocolate of AI models.

[Kara Swisher]

That's a good argument. He's right. I mean, I mean, When I interviewed AMD's CEO Lisa Su, she was sort of, everyone's sort of leaning into the open source model. They definitely are the second competitor. I think that's what OpenAI thinks. I think they think it's Gemini themselves. And Llama. And Llama would be number two. Scott.

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah. So Maya View is that Meta is the AI company actually of 2025. They're, they're the second largest purchaser of Nvidia GPUs just behind Microsoft. So they have the most processing power other than Microsoft. In addition, what is underappreciated is Reddit, which is an amazing company and the fifth or sixth most traffic site in America, generates 1.3 trillion tokens of data. And that's really the, you know, that's the, you could argue that's the rare resource here. It doesn't, it doesn't matter how much refining capability you have if you don't have the fossil fuel put into it or the coal to put into the furnace. And so Reddit has 1.3 trillion tokens of data. And just to give you a sense for just how much data Meta produces, they have 183 trillion tokens of data. And I think they made the move. And unfortunately, Mark Zuckerberg is as brilliant as he is sociopathic. And I think he decided, okay, the train has left the station around a for consumer customer subscription model. So what we're going to do is we're going to make this open source and we're going to use this the same way we use WhatsApp as a body bag for data to feed our other paid platforms. I think that Meta and Llama, and if you look at Llama, Llama's really frightening because it has, because it's open source and has absolutely, as far as I can tell, no guardrails. If you go to Llama and say how to kill your husband slowly, it literally goes, well, what kitchen supplies do you have? How often is he in the house?

[Kara Swisher]

I mean, it's Mark Zuckerberg, people.

[Scott Galloway]

I give you, it's got no guardrails. It'll, it'll. And it'll start helping you do whatever it is you would like to do.

[Kara Swisher]

Sounds about right.

[Scott Galloway]

And he'll get massive traffic. I think he'll make it free. And then he'll use all of that data such that I get served ads for, you know, for, you know, hemorrhoid cream at the exact right moment. I think. I think meta. I mean, four out of five people who aren't in China are on a Meta platform. Once a week, he has more data. He's making huge visionary investments with the capital he has.

[Kara Swisher]

He made the pivot from the metaverse quite smartly.

[Scott Galloway]

I think this guy's right. And I think Meta is the AI company.

[Kara Swisher]

At 25, we like the thing. Matt. I see your point. I'm just saying right now, OpenAI is in the lead. But you're right, they've got a lot of throughput. I suspect that OpenAI will get sold as one of them at some point, or maybe not now that they're nonprofit.

[Scott Galloway]

Well, just on a meta level, though. A meta. Meta level. I now believe that similar to jet transportation technology or the personal computer, I'm not convinced that any one company is going to be able to sequester trillions of dollars in shareholder value. I think the big winners are going to be open source and the general public. I do think that AI is going to make everyone more productive, or mostly everyone.

[Kara Swisher]

Electricity, you're saying 100% electricity? Yeah. That was a great one, Matt. Thank you. That's really smart. And the fact that you're using Scott's phrases now is.

[Scott Galloway]

She's not that nice. She interrupts me all the time. Just saying, I said that. I said that.

[Kara Swisher]

Okay, I know you did. And Matt, we appreciate it. As we tape, on Thursday, President Trump is set to announce a framework of a trade deal. Teasing the announcement on true social. Trump called. Many other deals will follow. And speaking of our allies, Canadian Prime Minister Mark Carney sat down for a meeting with President Trump at the White House this week. Trump was, of course, asked about Canada becoming the 51st state again. Let's listen. Yeah, please.

[Scott Galloway]

Mr. President and Mr. Prime Minister, I'd.

[Matt Marr]

Like to get your response to this.

[Scott Galloway]

Too, but, Mr. President, you have said.

[Matt Marr]

That Canada should become the fifth state.

[Scott Galloway]

No, no.

[Kara Swisher]

Well, I still believe that, but. But, you know, takes two to tango, right?

[Scott Galloway]

But, no, I do.

[Kara Swisher]

I mean, I believe it would be a massive tax cut for the Canadian citizens.

[Scott Galloway]

You get free military, you get tremendous.

[Kara Swisher]

Medical cares and other things. Medical cares. You get tremendous medical care in Canada.

[Scott Galloway]

Canadians are dying for our medical care system so they can be More obese, depressed and anxious and pay more. Pay twice, twice as much for their health here and pay eight times what anyone else pays for pharmaceuticals.

[Kara Swisher]

Don't have any cares about medical anyway. When Trump was asked about whether Carney could say anything to lift the tariffs on Canada, he said no. The President also told the room that Canada is a very special place to him and that he loves the country. Speaking of terrorists, this is an interesting thing. Internal documents obtained by the Washington Post show that the State Department pushed nations to clear hurdles for Starlink. Huh. Leading to some to believe there would be a tariff relief for following through. Totally by the books as always, total grift. So I'm going to just note some things. Matt Stoller, who's sort of person who deals with a lot of stuff like this, noted that this UK is hoping to get reduction on 25% tariffs. The US is loving, but the baseline 10% tariff will remain in place, officials say. In return, Britain is offering concessions on a digital tax it levies on big US companies, big US tech companies. And so Stoler noted. So these trade deals are just cuts and tariffs in return for Google and Meta. Explain how this is an attempt at manufacturing renaissance by demanding consumer sacrifice. So let's go from there. First the British thing, then Canadian. And I love Mark Carney, he's such a hunk. And the Starlink thing is exactly as I expected. Total pay per play. Go ahead.

[Scott Galloway]

I thought the more insightful and and educational clip was how Mark Carney handled the question. And I think anyone who's in communications or anyone who handles does speechwriting or generally just wants a lesson in how you push back forcefully, but in the most dignified way. And you don't antagonize a very sensitive person who's entirely about ego and not about stakeholder value, that is the President. Mark Carney's comments were just such a masterclass in terms of tone of what he said. And he said, well, you know, because he, he gave him an opening. Trump said, well, I think of it as a real estate deal. And you look at the big beautiful nation of Canada. And let's also play this other clip which demonstrates the elegant way, forcefully dignified way that Mark Carney dealt with Trump and his ridiculous comments. And having met with the owners of Canada over the course of the campaign last several months, it, it, it's not for sale, won't be for sale ever. But the opportunity is in the partnership and what we can build together. And we have done that in the past. And I thought that was Such an insightful way to frame it. And he said, and the owners have told me that this piece of real estate is not for sale. And that is such an elegant and non combative way of saying go fuck yourself.

[Kara Swisher]

And then of course Trump goes, never say never. Like so he did a great job. I thought Carney was quite a spectacularly. He seemed erudite and approachable at the same time. So go to the tariffs because I do think this is like they're all like really not tariff deals. This seems like a bunch of shakedowns all over the world, including the Starling thing, which is exactly what I expected and remains horrifying.

[Scott Galloway]

This is a kleptocracy, is you, you figure out a way to ascertain or usurp or attain power and then you use that power to make a small group of people very rich who have proximity to you, who then give you a vig and everybody else gets less watch healthy. And that is what is happening across the entire country as we have an individual that is acting like a mob boss who monetizes the United States and the White House. And this is exactly that. This is. He has proximity to big tech firms. He wants a, he thinks of them as iconic. They give him a lot of money. He calls them and they take their, their, their tariff pricing down. He calls them and they say, oh, we're now in the business of quote unquote free moderation and we call Trump a badass and we give him a million dollars to his inauguration. And okay, so we're going to give them a lead over every other tech or media firm in exchange such that we can call it victory. And small and medium sized media firms are shit out of luck. It's like, okay, they don't get this special advantage, they don't get this relief. And he can claim victory by. And this Starlink thing is literally like, okay, this guy put a quarter of a billion dollars into my campaign. And so I am going to for countries I'm going to, I mean Buffett.

[Kara Swisher]

Said little countries too.

[Scott Galloway]

These types of trade wars are a form or tariffs are a form of warfare. So the US is threatening war. In exchange you have to give sweetheart deals, non competitive advantage to the companies owned by the guy that gave me a quarter of a billion dollars to my campaign. He's literally. And who does that hurt? It hurts everyone. We're paying unfair taxes, unfair prices in the small and medium sized businesses in this country who create two thirds of our jobs and don't have lobbyists and can't get on the lunch calendar or the president and can't donate to his campaign or aren't going to, they lose essentially. Look at the biggest kleptocracies in the world. Whether Poland was emerging into a kleptocracy. Russia has been a kleptocracy for a long time. There are some of the wealthiest people over the last 30 years have been generated in Russia. Meanwhile, there's potholes in Moscow. Senator Warren summarized it perfectly and that is she said, okay, they're getting rich, you're losing your healthcare. That perfectly describes what happens in a kleptocracy. And this is a kleptocracy. If they were to say fine, no tariffs across. You have to drop your tariffs on all of our media or all of our tech companies and have a systemic law, that's fine. But when the president starts picking winners and losers, effectively everyone loses.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah. Cause he loves to be like I make a deal, I make a deal. But it's always in the interest. The Starling think was amazing. Maybe it's the best one. But these countries shouldn't have be forced into. If you only take our, you know, if you take our salami, you know, you'll, you'll get what you want. You won't be like beat up kind of thing. And that's what it feels, feels like everything. And of course it's Starlink. And when there's other choices that they could make with European satellite, whatever it matters, that might be their choice in the end but they don't get the choice of the choice. And what the worst thing is, it's a lot of small countries, right? A lot of small African countries. It's not just one. The Post noted, it was noted. That was like Vietnam was in there, I forget the Congo may have been in there but. And these are not all the ones on the list. So this is a policy of the government to sell Starlink. Now our government does go around and sell our companies, you know, for decades, you know, used Lockheed, used Boeing, whatever, but nothing this explicit with someone so close to the President. Right. In terms of like let me get you a deal and giving them unfair advantage.

[Scott Galloway]

Our trade representatives are. Our head of. Our Commerce Secretary will take a group of iconic American companies, but they will also take a representative for small businesses and they will say okay, we're here with Boeing, Procter and Gamble, Estee Lauder, North Face and trade representatives for small and medium sized businesses and manufacturers. And we're here and we go to China and We try and cut a deal and we speak with one voice and talk about great American companies, but they don't go over and say, oh, by the way, Exxon gave me a shit ton of money. I need you to build an Exxon, Exxon field here. Then everyone in oil and gas but Exxon loses. And what happens is companies start allocating more and more money to the kleptocrat, which their consumers pay for. And the companies it creates just an incentive system that's just a downward spiral. And it's a similar incentive system right now, unfortunately, because of Citizens United around companies allocating more and more capital to lobbying, to wasting.

[Kara Swisher]

It's a waste of money. Lobbying is a waste of money.

[Scott Galloway]

100%.

[Kara Swisher]

And then the Trump boys go around the world doing either. Were on Anderson Cooper, I think it was last night. The crypto stuff, the real estate stuff. They're building a big building in Saudi Arabia, one in all over the Mid east and just getting. They're just coming with a bag of money. They feel like mob people, like, here, put the money in the bag and then we'll do whatever you want anyway. It's grotesque, really. It is. Anyway, Scott. And these trade deals, let's take them apart very carefully, but most of them are going to be in this genre. Giving a favor to someone and not bringing manufacturing, manufacturing back to the US that was never the goal. That was a giant lie they were telling. And people did these sort of virtue signals of things they were already investing in to pretend that they were bringing manufacturing back to the US So regular workers are probably not going to benefit very much as they didn't in the first Trump administration. We made all those promises, none of which came to fruition, about manufacturing facilities. Okay, Scott, let's go on a quick break. When we come back, Tulsi Gabbard and Pete Hegg says password fails. What a surprise. Enterprise support for pivot comes from DeleteMe. DeleteMe makes it easy, quick and safe to remove your personal data online at a time when surveillance and data breaches are common enough to make everyone vulnerable. More and more online partisans and nefarious actors are finding people's data on the Internet and using it to target them. This can go for political rivals, civil servants, and even outspoken citizens posting their opinions online. With Deleteme, you can protect your personal privacy and the privacy of your business from documents, doxing attacks before sensitive information can be exploited. I've been able to try to delete me and I am sort of astonished by how much stuff is online About Me I know a lot of people have had their information stolen. It's a nightmare. Including family members. It's a nightmare to get back. It's really easy to delete your information from these sites using Delete Me. Put it simply, DeleteMe does all the hard work of wiping your personal information from data broker websites. You can take control of your data and keep your private life private by signing up for Delete Me now at a special discount for our list listeners. Get 20% off your Delete Me plan when you go to JoinDeleteMe.com pivot and use the promo code Pivot at checkout. The only way to get 20% off is to go to JoinDeleteMe.com pivot and enter the code pivot at checkout. That's JoinDeleteMe.com pivot codepivot support for this show comes from Smartsheet. You know that frustrating feeling when you're getting really into the flow of a work task? But when you hear a little ping of a message notification, you then switch your screen, Then you open a new application, then check the message, then click on the link in the message. Whoops. That opened a new application and your flow is totally broken. Well, you're definitely not alone here. On average, this toggling between tasks and application adds up to about 9% of time spent working each year. That's five whole work weeks. This distracting task switching is what Harvard Business Review called toggling tax and increases stress hormones, decreases focus, and makes it impossible to tap into a state of flow. That's where smartsheet comes in. Smartsheet is the work management software where you and your team can plan, track and deliver their best work without toggling back and forth between multiple applications. Imagine that you could do with those extra five work weeks if your work happened all in one place. Smartsheet Work with flow. Visit smartsheet.com today to learn more. Support for Pivot comes from Ferragamo When a mother receives a gift from their child, it's proof that motherhood is a sweet and profound bond. The kind of love that speaks for itself. You can celebrate that bond with Ferragamo this Mother's Day. Explore Ferragamo's curated Mother's Day gift guide to find an unforgettable heart filled gift gift. Because a Ferragamo piece befits a mom as elegant and vibrant as her Ferragamo is defined by elegance, quality and uncompromising style and strikes the perfect balance between functionality and sophistication with iconic women's shoes, ready to wear clothing and elegant bags and accessories. All are crafted with premium materials and meticulous attention to detail. They have eyewear, jewelry, fragrances and silk accessories that can add a unique and elevated flair to any look. This Mother's Day, not only can you take tell your mom how special she is, you can show her without words. Love speaks for itself with Ferragamo. Check out their Mother's Day gift guide and shop in the boutique or [e-mail] mothersdaygifts Scott we're back. Tulsi Gabbard, the Director of National Intelligence that's working hard. That word right there. Those two words reportedly has a history of not following best practices when it comes to cybersecurity. Gabbard used the same easily cracked password across multiple accounts. I'm surprised it wasn't 1, 2, 3, 4 for years. According to Wired, the password showed up in multiple data breaches and was linked to her Gmail, Dropbox and LinkedIn accounts. And it was apparently some nickname she had in some strange group she belonged to. During the time the breaches occurred, Gabbard was serving in Congress and sitting on the intelligence related committees with access to sensitive national security information. Then again, hold my beer, lot of beers. Defense Secretary Pete Hegsatz also had passwords exposed in multiple data breaches, including the one that was reused across personal email accounts, according to the New York Times. I mean this is like worse than my mother these two. And we also learned that he used Signal P Tech says even more for Pentagon business, engaging at least a dozen separate chats, the Wall Street Journal reported. I mean I've never seen more promiscuous people when it comes to bad data practices. And talk about your concerns about this, it doesn't like these people do not know how to keep classified information safe and even their own personal information at the same same time.

[Scott Galloway]

Well, you know what happens when Pete Hegseth takes Viagra?

[Kara Swisher]

What?

[Scott Galloway]

He grows taller, Kara. He grows taller. Look, when we send our young, our daughters and our sons to Serpent Uniform, they leave their families for months at a time, they forego economic opportunity and they put themselves in harm's way and oftentimes come back severely traumatized because they face such intense and incredibly stressful situations. And in exchange for that we have unprecedented ability to deliver violence all over the world that has created prosperity and security for Americans for 250 years. And the reason why the US military is the most impressive organization in the history of the world west is because from Top to bottom, people take it very seriously. And that is, they appreciate, even if you're anti war, anti military, if you're in a position to help and protect our men in uniform, you do it. And you don't do anything. You don't do anything to threaten their safety. And this is especially true. It is very hard to maintain morale. If anyone within the organization, whether it's the CIA case officers on the ground feeding them bad information, whether it's the person repairing your plane, trusting they're literally sweating all night that there's not going to be a mechanical failure, and the idea that the Defense Secretary is being reckless with classified information and putting them in harms, potentially in harm's way, and you may not even know how this manifests. Who should comment on this? Let's get Pete Hegseth's words on this. In 2016. He said the following when referencing Hillary Clinton storing confidential information on an email server. How damaging is it to your ability to recruit or build allies with others when they are worried that our leaders may be exposing them because of their gross negligence of their recklessness and handling information? And he then went on to say, the people we rely on to do dangerous and difficult things for us rely on one thing from us, that we will not reveal their identity, that we will not be reckless with the dangerous things that they're doing for. For us. That's the national security implications of a private server that's unsecured. I mean, this guy, he literally defines hypocrisy. And then he went on to say, if at the very top there's no accountability, then there's two tiers of justice. Said Hacksath. Yeah, yeah, Pete. Secretary Hackseth. There appears to be two tiers of justice here. And this is, you know, these. The people in the military have one thing in common. They all, all the most patriotic people in America are our veterans. And anyone who has kids knows why. When you make this type of investment and sacrifice in something, you become invested in its success. And that's one of the reasons I think we need mandatory national service. This guy does not appear to be invested in our success by virtue of the fact he's just so fucking reckless.

[Kara Swisher]

And then all the planes falling off of aircraft. I've never heard of this. Like, what in the world is happening? All this sloppiness.

[Scott Galloway]

They'll blame it on Bernie Sanders.

[Kara Swisher]

They'll blame it on someone I never heard of playing. Like, when's the last time that was a story? And now it's like a double Story like these people are sloppy in every single aspect of their lives. Anyway, whatever. There'll be more of it and we'll find out. I mean, I'm sure our, our, our rivals are just loving it and they're.

[Scott Galloway]

Really kind of this, this kid named, this ROTC kid who couldn't go to college unless it had been for rotc. Martin Ortiz, my fraternity brother. This guy was so irresponsible, responsible, so reckless. So crazy, right? I mean, we were literally, you know, we didn't shy away from crazy behavior in the fraternity. Everyone was scared of this guy. He would come to my apartment because he lived far away from his base and he would sleep in our room on the floor. And he would wake up at 3:45 in the fucking morning after drinking all night. So he could be a half an hour early at his base because he knew when it came to, when he came to, when it came to his military service. Service, there was no margin of error. Period. No margin of error. And this is a guy who couldn't get a D in basic English and couldn't figure out a way to rally himself to write a paper or whatever. But when it came to the commitment to the armed services, the culture they have created is you have to be near perfect.

[Kara Swisher]

Yep. And Ptag Seth is not. Anyway, whatever. It's going to be a constant disappointment until they dump this guy. And he'll probably get dumped because I. He dumps planes off of aircraft carriers that. It cost $60 million each. The money that we're supposed to be saving anyway. The Gates foundation is marking its 25th anniversary with a major announcement that will officially wind down operations and close its doors permanently in 2045, decades earlier than originally planned. In the meantime, Bill Gates has committed over $200 billion in aid over the next 20 years. Astonishing number with a focus on ending preventable deaths, eradicating infectious diseases and lifting millions out of poverty. The announcement comes as the US Foreign and foreign faces growing political pressures. They're cutting it everywhere. Trump administration is. Gates has been, really has got a hair up his ass about this for sure. Because in an interview the New York Times, Gates pulled no punches about recent cuts in usaid, putting the onus on Elon Musk saying he put it in the wood chipper because he didn't want. He didn't go to a party that weekend. Gates went on to say, the world's richest man has been involved in the deaths of the world's poorest children. I was like, he's been a little bit more like Trump positive just because he wanted to sort of get the aid back in some way. But now he's like, fuck it. Like, I don't care. This is what's going on here. So the fact that one of the other world's richest men is spending $200 billion with his money in stuff that the US government should be doing, and the fact that he's calling out Elon, I thought it was good for Gates. Good for Gates, Because I was worried he was sort of modulating himself in a way that I know he doesn't think. So what do you think about this?

[Scott Galloway]

There's a popular saying that a society grows great when old men plant trees in whose shade they know they shall never sit. And Elon Musk is cutting down these trees. And America has been planting trees the shade of which we will never, ever sit under. George Bush with, I think it was pepfar. He saved tens of millions of people by making a huge investment in rallying really competent people to try and distribute AIDS cocktail drugs to people in Africa. That had no impact on me other than it was nice that we had the ability to do it. And we used our scale and our strength and our expertise and our science and our universities to do that. Elon Musk is doing the opposite. He's cutting down the trees, the shade of which he will never stand under. Because his attitude is, if it's not providing me with shade, I don't give a fuck. And I'll call it. I'll say that I'm saving money for.

[Kara Swisher]

The government in order to go to Mars. Mars is what we really need to do. So we need to humanity.

[Scott Galloway]

There are certain investments where if you make a small amount of investment and $75 billion is not a lot when you look at the world's issues, you can allocate that capital to places of such need that a little bit of money has enormous ROI.

[Kara Swisher]

Well, this is 200 billion, Scott. From or Gates.

[Scott Galloway]

No, I'm talking about USA at 75 million. My point is, I think Gates, who's one of the most brilliant people and also I think later in life, as you would hope, from a man, really developed a great deal of empathy. He thought, okay, what could I do with my quarter of a trillion dollars in wealth? I could create other great companies. I could build the biggest VC firm in the world. I could decide who gets to be president or who doesn't. And he said at the margin, origin of the efficient frontier. I can save tens of millions of lives because one small pill that staves off or prevents a case of malaria is not that expensive in certain regions of the world.

[Kara Swisher]

Or netting or whatever. He was doing all kinds of different things.

[Scott Galloway]

Toilets. He spent a bunch of money on toilets. He's like, it's not romantic, but if I can bring safe potable water and sanitation to certain regions, I will literally save millions of children who otherwise would have died of dysentery.

[Kara Swisher]

He's a complex guy. And listen, he was a very difficult person. I was there when he was younger and kind of a jerk. He was a jerk. And all kinds of stuff he's done that is not great in lots of ways. At the same time, the transformation of this person into this kind of philanthropy is really something to see. And the fact that, listen, it's no small risk for him to call out Musk, who has been, by the way, attacking him relentlessly with fake stuff around vaccines. Musk was one. And Twitter has been the purveyor of this nonsense. That Gates is putting chips inside of people's heads. All kinds of, like through the vaccine. And the fact that Musk, all he does is make trouble for this guy and insult him and create all kinds of dangerous misinformation about him. And then I'm glad he did this. I'm glad he said it. Cause it's what he thinks.

[Scott Galloway]

Just real quick. One of the most wonderful things about America as a society is we have crazy created a complexion or a gestalt in our society where typically, as you become more powerful, there's an onus and an environment that encourages you to evolve, to become kinder. Bill Gates has become kinder. I think guys like Marc Benioff and Brian Chesky and even I interviewed Melinda French Gates, you can tell as they've gotten more powerful, they really take it very seriously that I need to evolve as a person person. I need to become kinder. The worst thing that can happen in a society is where you create a gestalt. That, okay, once I become president or once I become the wealthiest man in the world, I digress. I become an even bigger asshole. I become even more damaging to the world. And it's not an. I gotta think, quite frankly, and this is more of a philosophical question, what is it about our society where we are evolving this new species of man in the United States where as they become more powerful, even the robber barons who were not nice people, people, once they achieved a certain level of power, they did flip the switch and think, how can I build big projects and big universities that would help society? And these guys are not Thinking that way.

[Kara Swisher]

Only someone had a book coming out in November that discussed what kind of men we should be. Go on.

[Scott Galloway]

It's more a discussion of what kind of man you shouldn't be. It's sort of.

[Kara Swisher]

Well, you're telling it. Anyway. We've got to go on a quick break. When we come back, we'll talk about Disney and Uber's latest earnings. But good for you, Bill Gates. Good for you.

[Scott Galloway]

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[Kara Swisher]

Hi, this is Debbie, your blinds.com design consultant. Oh wow, a real person. Yep. I am here to help you with everything from selecting the perfect window treatments to. Well, I've got a complicated project. Oh, not a problem. I can even schedule a professional measure and install. We can also send you samples fast and free.

[Scott Galloway]

I just might have to do more.

[Kara Swisher]

Oh, okay. So the first room we're looking at is for guests. Shoplines.com now. And save up to 40% sitewide. Blinds.com rules and restrictions may apply. Scott, we're back. Disney is out with its latest earnings. I'd love to hear what you think about this. The company reported $23 billion in revenue, up 7% from a year ago and $3.2 billion in net income. A big turnaround from the net loss of $20 million last year were fueled by higher streaming profit. That seems to be doing well. Good bet by Bob Iger. Domestic theme parks and home video sales of Moana 2. I can tell you I've watched it 109,000 times. And speaking of theme parks, Disney has also announced plans for a new park in Abu Dhabi. That makes sense. Its seventh theme park resort. I thought they had one there. I don't know why Disney is often seen as a bellwether for consumer confidence. These numbers tell you consumers aren't too worried. Or is it just another Convoystrom earnings report? I'm going to add in Uber's earnings too. The company reported 11.5 billion doll in revenue, up 14% year over year. Not a huge company, but a good solid revenue. But slightly below Wall Street's expectations. Total bookings grew 14% to 42 billion. That's the amount. And then they have to take out blah blah blah, they have to pay drivers, et cetera. Uber has also just announced a joint venture with Chinese self driving car company Pony AI to roll out robo taxis in Middle Eastern markets. It looks like Uber is becoming the partner for all these things like Waymo and what Pony AI is doing around the world. So. So I'd love to hear what you think about. And then we have another listener prediction around earnings but first Disney and then Uber.

[Scott Galloway]

Well, Uber just sort of barely missed expectations. I would argue they met expectations. And what's interesting about Uber is their relationship with all the they're striking up with all these different autonomous driving companies. It feels like there's an old Hemingway line how did you go bankrupt gradually then suddenly is the answer. It feels like the autonomous wars have been slow and now it feels like it's about we're on the eve of war among autonomous whether it's u doing deals, Waymo at some point, Muscle Enter. It feels like autonomous Waymo and Uber.

[Kara Swisher]

Have a deal because they're the reservation system. Like that's what I've always thought Uber was the reservation system for someone and.

[Scott Galloway]

They own custody to consumer and you're used to just booking a car on them. But that's what I took away from the Uber earnings, but I didn't think they were that interesting really. The more interesting one was the surprise of the upside from Disney and that is their stock popped 10%. It's after really touching kind of 10 year lows. Revenue up 7%. The Disney plus not only raised prices but grew their subscriber base, which a lot of us weren't expecting. Hulu added over 1 million subscribers. But the real story here is that I think strategically they're remaining very smart because what are they doing? They're leaning into their core advantage and point of differentiation and that's its parks. Business Parks has mentioned five times more in this earnings call than the prior quarter's call because they realized that Netflix isn't opening a park Alpha Medicare can. It takes 10 years, 20 years maybe to build a park like this.

[Kara Swisher]

Comcast is their competitor.

[Scott Galloway]

Their cruise line is killing it. And they also realize, quite frankly they're probably always going to be a distant two or three maybe if they're lucky in streaming. But they can be number one and command unfair margins in their parks unit. And their parks unit is just killing it. And to Bob Iger's credit, this was the strongest earnings call Disney has had in a Long time and that is okay. The streaming is no longer a sinkhole of capital and we are our parks business which is truly differentiated and singular is killing it. So good. Good for them.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, I think he's. And then we'll see who he takes over. But he's, you know, he's a pro. This man is a pro. Okay Scott, while we're on the topic of earnings, let's hear from another prediction from a listener. This one about the economy. Let's play it. By the way, our list listeners are so smart.

[Matt Marr]

Hi Kara and Scott, this is Rich, an American living in Germany since 2016. My prediction is that the US falls into a recession possibly even worse than 2008. On the consumer side, tariffs push prices even higher after years of inflation crushing demand. Businesses cut jobs even more than they are already due to tariffs and AI. Then on the credit side, investors demand higher yields after we voluntarily drive our economy off a cliff. Unlike 2008 though, the Fed can't just cut rates in a stagflationary environment. We're stuck in a vicious cycle or Toyfls kaise as Karen knows.

[Kara Swisher]

Toyfls kais Scott, this is, this is, you know, most people can't tell if we're going to run into this recessionary environment. It certainly feels like that's what we're being set up for. Unless he does something. I mean this is self inflicted of course.

[Scott Galloway]

Well there's sort of the non unknowns and then the unknown unknowns and it's usually the unknown unknowns that get you. But in terms of the known unknowns, the fulcrum here about whether we probably go into a recession or we're stagflation is this nonsense around tariffs and what happens if anything resembling the proposed tariffs actually sticks? You're going to see an increase in inflation, an increase in interest rates and a decline in the economy. The word for that that most young people don't know is stagflation. And when you have stagflation, when the economy's shrinking even as interest rates go up, which is the worst of that's nitro and glycerin for an economy, you have to sacrifice jobs and massively increase interest rates because basically typically with a Fed, the Fed says is we will opt for lower or higher unemployment versus higher inflation. That's the real danger in my opinion. If we go into recession. That's something that's supposed to happen every seven years. It brings down prices. Quite frankly it gives young people over the medium term a little bit of an opportunity. To buy into assets at a lower price. I don't think recession is the worst thing that can happen to us. If you look at the Fed's notes or Chairman Powell's notes yesterday, he essentially said, said we're in a bit of a vibe session. And Kyla Scanlon, who, I love this young woman who does a ton of great work on economics, essentially consumer confidence is at a low since COVID The uncertainty index is at a high since the 80s. But if you look at the underlying data, if you look at employment, if you look at retail sales, if you look at spending, quite frankly, the economy still looks pretty strong right. Right now. And so he kept interest rates flat. So this is all about in the short term. Unless you know, if, look, if there's a nuclear detonation on the Indian Pakistani border, all bets are off, right? But in terms of where we are economically right now, the fulcrum or the arbiter will be just how fucking insane how down crazy road we travel with these tariffs. So we'll see. But the thing I'm most scared of is not a recession. I actually think that recessions, I think we're due for not an extended recession. Housing prices and stock prices need to come down such that people like you and me, Kara, maybe transfer a little bit of our wealth and create some opportunity for younger people who want to buy their own homes and buy their own stocks. I don't think that'd be the worst thing in the world. What would be nearly the worst thing for the economy? Economy would be a spike in interest rates as the economy goes down. And the thing what's so interesting is any economist under the age of 50 doesn't even know the word stagflation. They don't even think it can happen. It can happen. It happened in the 70s.

[Kara Swisher]

It's like a horror movie stagflation. I feel like Besant's got the upper hand here, Bessant and Rubio over the crazies. I think I suspect a little bit more so.

[Scott Galloway]

It's the tenure, it's the bond. If the bond market starts spiking, they all freak out.

[Kara Swisher]

They all freak out. You're right. But I'm saying with the terror, with having to do with Trump's crazy, he seems a little more willing to deal besides himself self deal in any case. We'll see. We'll see. Great, great. Thank you so much, Rich. That was really great. Very quickly, the new Meta AI app is creepy. According to a detailed account in the Washington Post. Speaking of these AI stuff that were Meta probably will dominate in many ways. The app assures personalized AI and delivers via personal information from Facebook and Instagram and memory files where details about users are kept. Jeffrey Fowler, who wrote the post the article found found his memory file contained interest like natural fertility techniques, divorce and payday loans. Also feeds conversations back about Meta's AI training system without an option to opt out. I know you're saying they're going to dominate. There is thing I worry about. You always say, oh, I loaded this up, I loaded that up. And I'm always like, I'm not loading my stuff up, you know, and you can pay a little more to ChatGPT so they don't train on your data and they allegedly protect it. I would not load up like what I ate for lunch yesterday to Meta, I have to say. I mean, except for Instagram and threads which I use largely for marketing, I gotta say, I'm not loading a damn thing up to this person because of the way it was used and the lack of any guardrails. I would never use their AI app. I don't know how you feel about it, but you're much more promiscuous in loading up your information.

[Scott Galloway]

So yeah, my attitude is violate my privacy. As long as I can see that my QX60 is one minute away, I could just get get high. I could just eat edibles and order Ubers and watch how close my car is. I find it fascinating. Why is he making a right turn on broom? Doesn't he know where he's going? I find that fascinating. And occasionally I have a moment, I'm like, how do they know? Like I, you know, how do they know I have prostate? Itis. How are they know? I mean, I find this fascinating.

[Kara Swisher]

Mine is food porn. Like people making food tool tips tip like little hacks, Hardware hex and Mission Impossible. Mission Impossible Dockers, which is coming out May 23rd and I'm going by myself. Just so everybody knows. Do not speak to me on May 23rd. I'm going to see the final reckoning and I'm going to probably see it twice, but go ahead, Scott. So what do you think about this app? Are you going to use it? You probably will.

[Scott Galloway]

Look, I do a talk. I was just in Hamburg, Germany and I do a talk talk on that. Everyone want. Everyone wanted to know, had two, you know, questions really around two topics in the Q and A, what the is going on in America? And they want to know about AI. And I've said I'm an AI optimist. For the most part, I don't think it's going to turn on us. I don't see any reason why AI can't be used to create defensive measures against offensive measures. I don't think it's ever going to become sentient. I think in the short run, it'll destroy jobs. But like every other technology, it'll create, in my opinion, more jobs than it destroys over the medium and the long term. The biggest threat of AI is that it's going to speedball loneliness. And that is. I'm frustrated. I don't have friends. I can't figure out the social pecking order. I am really upset. I don't have a girlfriend. So I have this incredible AI girlfriend that's a mix of porn and maybe I even have an AI robot sex doll. And I never develop the skills or take the risk to establish a romantic relationship. And this is the fear, this is. What young men have fighting against them is they have the deepest pocketed, most talented people in the world trying to convince them they can have a reasonable facsimile of life with no human contact. You need the community.

[Kara Swisher]

So you're not concerned with loading your stuff, which is my question.

[Scott Galloway]

Well, okay, it's too late for me. And not only that, quite frankly, I have economic security and people who love me unconditionally. So I'm there. I'm at the prime promised land. What I'm worried about is young men who are struggling to find a connection to school, to work or to other people and get a reasonable facsimile of that dopa hit that you get from a relationship from Reddit, Discord, porn, Robin Hood. Oh, I'm not gambling, I'm investing. And they spend all of their time in their basement never going through the hardship of trying to make relationships work.

[Kara Swisher]

Let me say we have to move on. But Scott. Scott will be everybody friend next. Friend. Just so you know, Scott is everybody's friend. I'm very unfriendly, but Scott will be everybody's friend. Okay, I'm not using that app. That's all I'm saying. All right, Scott, one more quick break. We'll be back for predictions, including one more listener prediction. Scott, we're back. We're going to do a prediction now, Scott. I'm to do a very brief one. They're giving out Golden Globes for best podcast next year. I think we need to win even though we're not in the top 20. You have to be in the top 25 to be in it. We have to get to the top 25.

[Scott Galloway]

The top 25 most listened.

[Kara Swisher]

Yes. Apparently some crazy right wingers that are.

[Scott Galloway]

In the top 25.

[Kara Swisher]

I know that. Exactly. So we need to, we need to log.

[Scott Galloway]

What about the top 25 revenue? Because the thing is the people who listen to those people don't have any money unless they're like looking for dental implants or like trucker hats. What about the top 25 in terms of revenue?

[Kara Swisher]

So we need to kiss up to the Golden Globe people. All those foreign press.

[Scott Galloway]

Let's threaten to tariff them. Let's threaten to tariff award ceremonies.

[Kara Swisher]

We want to come. We are so much fun at a party. We would have such a. We would be so good at a Golden Globe. We will drink, we will cause problems, et cetera, et cetera.

[Scott Galloway]

So much is doing a lot of work there. But okay, you fall asleep on the couch, everyone's wondering who the nine year old boy who is asleep on the couch. And everyone's like who's the guy just outside the bar who won't leave.

[Kara Swisher]

That's correct. And as I said, I will be at Mission Impossible. One thing I will, I'm going to do a quick prediction. I was talking to the people at Aurora, which is the self driving trucks. Everyone's focused on self driving cars. But these driverless runs of trucks, they're now going on every day between Dallas and Houston. I just think that's something that isn't focused in on. They hauled pastries, the first driverless hauled transported pastries. This is an area nobody's paying attention to. I think that is the real money is that kind of stuff because that's where it's going to be. That's where we really do need these driverless things going on. And I'm excited by the driverless cars in cities, I am personally. But I think that's where the big money is going to be. That's where you should be focusing in on if you're interested in the sector. All right, Scott, make a prediction.

[Scott Galloway]

This first hundred days of the Trump administration, mostly using the vehicle of the Trump Coin will go down in history is the greatest grift in the history, history of our economy in terms of the amount of money stolen and the size of it over the shortest period. Just some data here. So Trump affiliated entities have made at least $300 million. This is distinct to the value of his stake in Trump Coin in trading fees. The Trump family's net worth has increased by $3 billion or a billion dollars a month since he took office. Just some timeline The Trump coin was launched on a Friday night under cover of dark with all the news about the inauguration. By 3am on Sunday, it was valued at more than 70 billion. And there were a small number of coins, a small number of investors who made large investments on a Friday. Maybe they got a tip or something. They made tens, if not hundreds of millions. And then over the course of the next couple weeks, about 800,000 smaller investors lost billions.

[Kara Swisher]

Does the Melania coin won?

[Scott Galloway]

The Melania coin, two dozen traders made almost $100 million the weekend it came out, right? So One person invested 64 seconds before the project was publicly announced. Within 24 hours had made 40 million. But since then, Melania has lost 96% of its value.

[Kara Swisher]

Sure has.

[Scott Galloway]

Since this market manipulation, this what would technically be called insider trading by the SEC, FCC, we'll never know because on April 8, Trump's deputy attorney general ordered the DOJ's crypto fraud investigation arm to disband. The next day, the next day, on April 9, the same day that Treasury Secretary Scott Besant affirmed that it was Main Street's turn to get wealthy, Trump posted on Truth Social, this is a great time to buy Donald Trump Media. At 9:37am between between 1 and 1:10pm there was a huge increase in bullish zero day s and P500 call options. And then just eight minutes later, Trump announced a 90 day pause on all of his tariffs. And the market soared almost 10%, one of the biggest one day gains in history. So someone knew what was going on.

[Kara Swisher]

Of course they do. He calls them.

[Scott Galloway]

That's called insider trading. The market gained $4 trillion while Trump Media closed up 23%. Trump's 53% ownership stake in the company increased his net worth by 415 million. On April 23, Trump announced that the top holders of the Trump Coin would win an exclusive dinner with him. And the coin surge over 60%. A small group of investors have generated massive returns. Just 58 wallets made more than 10 million apiece, totaling approximately 1.1 billion in gains. Meanwhile, 800,000 wallets of mostly smaller holders have lost money on their trip. Trump Coin. And this isn't just a vessel for corruption. It's an open invitation for foreign manipulations. Three quarters of the token value held among the top 220 wallets are believed to be held by foreign owners. So if he's hosting a dinner for his Trump pack and it costs a million and a half dollars and say you're hungry and you want to get rid of these terrorists, tariffs don't you pay someone, have someone, a proxy go spend the million and a half bucks and go. Oh, just FYI, let the President know as a gift to him, we're going to buy $50 million in Trump coin this week, which will increase the value somewhere between half a billion and a billion, which means he'll get somewhere between 4 and 800 million. And we're really hoping he's kind to us around the tariffs.

[Kara Swisher]

I agree. I've been talking to a lot of investigative reporters right now, and by the way, a lot of techies are, are keeping tabs of this stuff. I have to say, in a couple of years, there's going to be a massive mitigation. He'll probably be not too old to put him in jail for it, but boy, is this a grift. You're absolutely right.

[Scott Galloway]

Well, and it gets worse. Now the kids went on a World Liberty Financial, a crypto firm run by Trump's sons, Eric and Don Jr. 60% of it is owned by Trump affiliated entity and they are entitled to 75% of its revenue. It's raised more than a half a billion dollars from investors who purchased the World Liberty Financial governance token and now it's being leveraged to facilitate pardons for criminals. Justin Sun, a crypto billionaire, was under SEC investigation for securities fraud under the Biden administration after investing 75 million in World Liberty Financial. Guess what, Kara? The SEC dismissed his case.

[Kara Swisher]

That's correct. This is a, this is a crash. It is really. This is the story I keep telling reporters and you've talked about it quite a lot, is the story the absolute kleptocracy and it's in plain sight. Absolutely.

[Scott Galloway]

But this is what fucking infuriates. I'm a real politic guy. I don't mind a little bit of corruption as long as it's good for all Americans. I don't mind a little bit of strong arming. But here's the problem or the tragedy. If Trump brought half the competence, expertise and elegance to governance as he does to go grifting, the country would be in a much better place.

[Kara Swisher]

He's good at criming.

[Scott Galloway]

This is what we have. This will be my last statement here.

[Kara Swisher]

Okay.

[Scott Galloway]

We have a mob family running the country. That's the bad news. The worst thing. The worst thing is that Michael Corleone is managing the crime and Fredo is managing the government.

[Kara Swisher]

It's like, for God's sakes, that's a good analogy.

[Scott Galloway]

You are so good at stealing. Can you bring some of that elegance that timing, that expertise to the government, to actual government. Fredo is in charge of our fucking military right now. And Michael Corleone is in charge of the Trump coin. So I forgive everything if you take the people managing your grift and put them in charge of our military and Social Security.

[Kara Swisher]

We do not want Eric Trump.

[Scott Galloway]

But you get my point.

[Kara Swisher]

This is just. I get it. But they're not even smart. I don't even think they're smart. I think they're stupid. And they're just putting their bag out and say, put money in here. Mobsters are notoriously stupid. They just are just muscle. And that's what's happening here.

[Scott Galloway]

Anyways, the prediction is the biggest grift in history is happening as we sit here right now. In five years, 10 years, when this all comes out, and it will. This will be the greatest grift in an economy over a shorter period of time that has ever taken place.

[Kara Swisher]

Tens of billions, actually.

[Scott Galloway]

This will make Putin blush.

[Kara Swisher]

Yep. Absolutely. Okay, Scott, you've made your prediction. Now it's time to hear one last one from a listener. This one is super serious, so please try to focus. Okay, let's play it.

[Scott Galloway]

Okay.

[Matt Marr]

Hi, this is Mike from Oakland, California. And I think my prediction is if Scott isn't already shaving his balls, he's going to start doing that. Because I think there's nothing more depressing than gray bald hair. And that's really my prediction.

[Kara Swisher]

Okay.

[Scott Galloway]

I am speechless.

[Kara Swisher]

Excellent.

[Scott Galloway]

I occasionally clip my whole body so I can feel like a jungle cat. And then I put lotion all over my body. And I just love me. Yeah, I'm not a big. I'm not a big manscaper. I like Big Ed and the twins that have a little bit of a beard.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah. I gotta say, it's a big business. It's a big business.

[Scott Galloway]

No, at all.

[Kara Swisher]

They have good names. They all have such good names. All those manscaping things. They have really funny brand names. Anyway, I'm not going to say how I know this, but I do.

[Scott Galloway]

My junk looks like an aging anteater. It just looks sad. It just looks sad.

[Kara Swisher]

Well, I don't know what to say that, but Scott is speechless, which is excellent. Thank you, Mike.

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah, no, I'm not. I'm not.

[Kara Swisher]

I think clipping is good. Keep it clean for the ladies, Scott. Keep it clean for the ladies. This is what I tell my son. Keep it clean for the ladies.

[Scott Galloway]

My wife came in, or actually, like, came in on me while I was manscaping once, and she asked me what I was doing. Apparently, meal prep was not the right answer.

[Kara Swisher]

Okay. Keep it clean for the ladies. That's my advice to all men. Ladies and men, let me be clear. We want to hear from you. Send us your question about business, tech, or whatever's on your mind. Go to nymag.com pivot to submit a question for the show or call 855-51-Pivot elsewhere in the Kara and Scott universe this week, this week on Prof. G Conversations, Scott spoke with Ann Applebaum, one of my favorites Pulitzer Prize winning historian, and she's so good. And staff crater at the Atlantic. Let's listen to a clip. Donald Trump is somebody who's constantly seeking to shape reality to his own benefit, and he feels no need to be accurate. And so anybody who does, anyone who cares about telling the truth or who cares about making policy based on reality and not on this fiction that Trump promotes is uncomfortable. And that means that all the people around are either they're simply manipulable and they're willing to just do whatever he says or they're people who have made a big, a kind of moral sacrifice, you know, who, who are doing something they know to be wrong. Hello, Marco Rubio. Anne is terrific. And that's, I can see why you're in the grift mode right now because she talks about this a lot. She's an expert on this.

[Scott Galloway]

I love her. I love her. I love when, I love when unfortunately, I'm like, it's, it's terrible. She's having a moment. It's like if someone writes about famine, I hope they don't have a moment. But she is having a moment.

[Kara Swisher]

She is. She's great and well worth reading. Okay, that's the show. Thanks for listening to Pivot. Be sure to like and subscribe to our YouTube channel. We'll be back next week. Scott, Read us out.

[Scott Galloway]

Today's show was produced by Lara Neyman, Zoe Marcus, Taylor Griffin and Kevin Oliver. Ernie and her Todd engineered this episode. Thanks also to Drew Burrows, Mia Siberio and Dan Shalon. Nishak Kirwa as Vox Media's executive producer of podcast makes shot to follow Pivot on your favorite podcast platform. Thanks for listening to Pivot from New York Magazine and Vox Media. You can subscribe to the [e-mail] pod we'll be back next week for another breakdown of all things tech and business. Cara what economic theory opposes manscaping? Laissez fur Golden Globe winner from Best Podcast.

[Kara Swisher]

Sam.