Pope's Pushback, Orban's Concession, and Bessent's Anthropic Warning

Summary

Pivot Podcast Summary

Episode: "Pope's Pushback, Orban's Concession, and Bessent's Anthropic Warning"
Date: April 14, 2026
Hosts: Kara Swisher & Scott Galloway

---

Episode Overview

In this episode, Kara and Scott tackle a week of tumultuous news spanning politics, global conflict, tech, and culture. Topics include Donald Trump's online attacks on the Pope, the ousting and gracious concession by Hungary’s longtime leader Viktor Orban, a new AI warning from Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent, fallout from California Rep. Eric Swalwell’s campaign implosion, escalating security threats to Sam Altman, and concerns around Hollywood’s latest mega-merger. True to form, the hosts bring unfiltered analysis, sharp banter, and a blend of cautious optimism and scathing critique.

---

Key Discussion Points & Timestamps

1. Opening Banter: Coachella, Kara’s New Show, and Party Talk

• [02:02] Kara returns from a brief break; Scott recounts Coachella escapades (without actually attending the festival itself, but enjoying the atmosphere and food).
• [03:26] Kara thanks Scott for interviewing her at the premiere of her CNN show, Kara Swisher Wants to Live Forever.
• [04:30] Praise for the show's visual production:
  • Scott: “The production values were fantastic. Yes, really beautiful cinematography.” [04:11]
  • Kara: “TV at times has got it.” [04:30]

---

2. Trump vs. The Pope and MAGA Media Fragmentation

• [06:00] Trump attacks Pope Leo online, calling him "weak on crime" and "terrible on foreign policy"; posts AI-generated images comparing himself to Jesus.
• [06:46] Kara details the pope’s popularity and Trump’s social media meltdown while lashing out at multiple right-wing media figures.
• [07:14]
  • Scott: “I fail to see how alienating a core constituency... by taking on the Pope... I do not see any upside here.” [07:14]
  • Kara: “This guy’s been speaking out as popes sometimes do on wars... he’s been very firm on war: like, let’s stop it.” [08:30]
• [10:06]
  • Scott: “It does feel like he’s lashing out... This just feels crazy.”
  • Discusses lack of clear campaign strategy and signs of cognitive decline in Trump.

---

3. The Iran Crisis and Standoff in the Strait of Hormuz

• [11:26] Overview: Trump’s failed peace talks, looming blockade of the Strait, US warships in place, Iran threatens US tech companies/data centers.
• [12:54]
  • Scott draws a striking analogy to the WGA strike: “The most powerful player on the other side of the table garnered and registered additional value. And this is exactly what’s going on here.” [13:49]
  • “Iran has, we have given Iran something... more dangerous and effective than enriched uranium, and that is their ability to put a stranglehold on a chokehold of the global economy called the Strait.” [14:31]
• [16:48]
  • Kara: “I can’t imagine being — I don’t have sympathy for J.D. Vance because I think he’s the Cybertruck of politicians, but they really put him in a situation and he was not going to succeed in these talks.”
• [19:19]
  • Scott’s point on strategic missteps: “Not going to Congress, not enlisting Gulf allies, not enlisting European allies, not having a clear exit strategy... has put us in the definition of a quagmire.”

Memorable Fact:

• [19:39]
  • Scott: “The mine sweeping vessels in the Navy... they’re made out of wood.”
  • Kara: “Such that they are not the metals they don’t track.”
  • Scott: “They’re ancient basically ancient structures with the most sophisticated radar equipment...”

---

4. Hungary’s Historic Election: Orban’s Gracious Defeat

• [20:23] Orban concedes after 16 years; Peter Magyar, a former loyalist, hailed as a comparatively moderate reformer.
• [22:10]
  • Scott: “This is the biggest thing that’s happened in the last month... Symbolic that JD Vance went over there and after going over, Orban’s popularity actually went down... The best thing that happened... Viktor Orban conceded the election immediately.”
• [23:36]
  • Scott: “Viktor Orban has greater character now than many of our Republican elected officials... If you do not concede elections, the very basis... of democracy does not exist.”
• [24:24]
  • Kara: “Right wingery is sort of on the way out... They just were sick and tired of corruption and fascism. This is a country which has suffered at the hands of fascists... for a long time. So what’s our excuse?”
• [56:44]
  • Scott (later in wins/fails): “If a fascist who ruled for 16 years can concede an election, so can we... Viktor Orban, who I am not a fan of, understood.”

---

5. Rep. Eric Swalwell Drops Out Amid Misconduct Allegations

• [28:12] Kara and Scott break down the rapid collapse of Swalwell's campaign and the broader implications for #MeToo-era politics.
• [29:38]
  • Scott: “I think this probably is going to make Tom Steyer governor... If you are above a certain level of power... you fuck anybody who works here, you’re out. It creates too much risk.” [31:12]
  • Clear distinction between personal misconduct and criminality: “If law enforcement needs to get involved... then have it investigated. But before that, if it’s, did you have sex with a staffer? As an elected representative? If the answer is yes, then you are out.” [31:22]
• [34:51]
  • Kara: “I was amazed by how many people within these parties, both of them, know this stuff pretty well. That always surprises me.”
• [36:58]
  • Scott: “The staffers are there to fuck each other, not the elected representative who has power over them.”

---

6. Treasury Secretary’s Anthropic AI Warning

• [37:41]
  • Scott Bessent warns bank CEOs and the Fed of Anthropic’s Mythos model as a cybersecurity threat.
  • Kara: “The offense [in AI] is much stronger than the defense... Bessent is doing the right thing here, but it’s just ridiculous that the Pentagon is then more with Anthropic, which came forward...”
• [38:42]
  • Scott: “I find that the worst thing to do right now is to be a cabinet member going on and trying to defend these policies.”

---

7. Escalating Threats Toward Sam Altman

• [41:00] Sam Altman’s residence is targeted—Molotov cocktail and gunfire.
• [42:21]
  • Kara: “Altman responded... emphasizing with anti-technology sentiments... nearly a third of young adults say AI makes them angry.”
  • Scott: “We just can’t... justify... any violence against any citizen. And I’m not a fan of Sam Altman... but we have to have zero tolerance for violence against them in any fashion.”
• [43:50] On Altman’s rapid fall from “likable tech guy” to “Bond villain” in the public eye:
  • Scott: “For Sam Altman it was 18 months... This guy will say or do anything to make more money. There are easier ways to find self-satisfaction than running a tech company right now.”
• [47:34]
  • Kara: “Whoever did these things or is considering it, you are horrible people. That’s not how you deal with problems... the anger needs to be funneled toward the ballot box.”

---

8. Hollywood Merger Backlash & Elon Musk’s Political Influence

• [48:16] Over a thousand Hollywood power players oppose the Paramount–Warner Bros. Discovery deal; Kara and Scott predict massive job loss and creative harm.
  • Scott: “If this deal goes through, you’re gonna hear millions of people in the creative community scream because this is going to be the most destructive force of human capital...”
• [50:38] Scott slams the lack of early union action:
  • “This letter should have come out... you are not gonna get a single piece of content made. This is unworkable for us.”
• [50:38] On Musk’s super PAC donations and political influence:
  • Kara: “He’s been using FTC, FCC in all manner of ways, including Marco Rubio, to get his beefs won that he can’t win in court.”
• [51:14]
  • Scott: “300 people now are responsible for a fifth of all PAC spending. And guess what? They can deploy it wherever they need it strategically. The best ROI in history.”
• [52:32]
  • Scott: “But I’ve said if I had someone in prison who I wanted out, I think for between one and $3 million through a third party, I could get them out within 24 months.”

---

9. Trump Lawsuit Failures & The Power of the First Amendment

• [52:02] Court throws out Trump’s $10 billion lawsuit against the Wall Street Journal over Epstein claims.
  • Scott: “The thing that’s holding is First Amendment... when these things do go to court, they are universally swatted away.”
  • Kara: Notes the chilling effect of nuisance lawsuits on newsrooms.

---

10. Wins & Fails

Wins

• Kara Swisher Wants to Live Forever praised by Scott for its cinematic production values.
  • Scott: “It felt like an original scripted series on Apple TV. It felt very rich.” [54:11]
• Viktor Orban’s immediate and gracious election concession:
  • Scott: “If a fascist who ruled for 16 years can concede an election, so can we." [56:44]

Fails

• Melania Trump’s tone-deaf speech relating to her personal story and Jeffrey Epstein allegations:
  • Kara: “What in the actual fuck is happening here?”
• NYT profile of Lauren Sanchez (Jeff Bezos’ fiancée) as “tone-deaf” and “icky.”
  • Scott quoting Broadcast News (59:42): “When your real life exceeds your wildest dreams... keep it to yourself.”
  • Kara: “MacKenzie Scott just gave $70 million to Meals on Wheels and never said a word about herself.”
• Hacks final season gets a shoutout as Kara’s “win” for strong, outspoken women in television. [62:13]

---

Notable Quotes

• Scott on politics and the Pope: “Don’t fuck with El Papa.” [07:14]
• Kara on Trump’s social media spree: “He was tweeting all last night from like 9pm to 4am like, regularly. Thoughts?” [06:48]
• Scott on negotiation power in Iran crisis: “The majority of battles are won before anyone steps on the field.” [17:29]
• Scott on office romance rules: “The staffers are there to fuck each other, not the elected representative who has power over them.” [36:58]
• Kara on societal frustration: “You should not... be considering violence... you are horrible people... the anger needs to be funneled toward the ballot booth.” [47:34]
• Scott on Orban’s concession: “He showed more fidelity to democracy than not only our corrupt president, but so many of the people who want to be a judge..." [56:44]

---

Takeaways & Tone

The conversation was at times sharp, unsparing, and openly critical—of political figures, tech elites, industry consolidation, and complicity within institutional structures. Kara and Scott’s banter and personal touches create both levity and moments of catharsis, especially when confronting politically dark news cycles.

---

Episode Highlights by Timestamp

• 03:26 – Premiere of Kara’s CNN show, behind-the-scenes stories
• 06:46 – Trump vs. Pope and MAGA media, implications on the right
• 11:26 – Iran crisis, US posture, new targets (tech)
• 20:23 – Viktor Orban’s election defeat and the meaning of concession
• 28:12 – Rep. Eric Swalwell allegations and the politics of accountability
• 37:41 – Bessent’s Anthropic AI warnings; defense vs. offense in cybersecurity
• 41:00 – Sam Altman security threats and the public’s relationship with tech elites
• 48:16 – Hollywood merger backlash, tech influence in politics, Trump lawsuit
• 54:05 – Wins and Fails segment: Orban, TV, and public figures’ tone-deafness

---

Final Word

Pivot’s April 14, 2026 episode delivers a riveting survey of the week’s big issues, blending news analysis with energetic sarcasm, calls for reform, and just enough optimism to keep listeners engaged. The episode illustrates, yet again, that politics, tech, and business are inseparable—and frequently, deeply bizarre.

---

Want more Pivot?
Submit questions at nymag.com/pivot or call 855-51-PIVOT.

---

End of Summary

Transcript

[Kara Swisher]

Support for this show comes from the 2027 Chevy Bolt. Oh, I love the Chevy Bolt. I have mine. How long is 25 minutes? A quick workout or a stop to the grocery store is salty amount of time it takes you to charge your Chevy Bolt. As I said, I drive the Chevy Bolt myself. An older version. And now the Bolt is back and better than ever. I may have to trade it in. You can charge from 10% to 80% in just 25 minutes with public DC fast charging, that's about half the length of this very podcast. Explore Chevy's most affordable EV at Chevy Dot. Actual charge times will vary. See Owner's Manual for details and limitations. Let me say again, I love my car. Never had a problem with it. Best car I've ever owned. Buy the Chevy Bolt. Support for this show comes from AMC Awards Buzz calls the Audacity a sharply engaging and zany comedic drama A once buzzy Silicon Valley startup is losing steam thanks to its narcissistic CEO, Duncan Park. In his desperation to reclaim his IT factor, he'll take down anything, anyone who gets in his way. Executive produced by Jonathan Glatzer, a writer producer of Succession and Better Call Saul Billy Magnuson, Sarah Goldberg and Zach Galifianakis star in this absurd look at 21st century techno royalty. Watch the Audacity Sundays only on AMC and AMC. Learn more at amcplus.com if you're tired of endless scrolling to figure out where to eat, same I'm Stephanie Wu, editor in chief of Eater. We've just launched the newish and way better Eater app. It has all the restaurants we love, gives you personalized picks wherever you are, and serves up smarter search results just for you. You can find my list of the best places for martinis and fries in New York City and save your favorite spots, share lists, follow editors and book right in the app. Download the eater [e-mail] it's free for iOS users.

[Scott Galloway]

Aren't we adorable?

[Kara Swisher]

I know we're adorable. Hi everyone. This is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Kara Swisher.

[Scott Galloway]

And I'm Scott Galloway.

[Kara Swisher]

Y' all back? I'm back.

[Scott Galloway]

That's right. That's right.

[Kara Swisher]

Did you have a good time off? Did you have a nice time?

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah, I didn't do a whole lot, but yeah, it was really nice. I was in Florida. A lot of walks on the beach with my dogs. Actually got kind of bored, which was a lovely and strange feeling.

[Kara Swisher]

Well, we missed you. We had some good hosts, but no one Is you. Let's just say. I just want to say.

[Scott Galloway]

Go on.

[Kara Swisher]

No, no one is you.

[Scott Galloway]

That's what people said to me when they come up to me at Coachella. They're like, no one is you. No one is that. I think that was Coachella. I think that was Justin Bieber's first song at Coachella.

[Kara Swisher]

I liked what he did there. I don't know. A lot of people criticized him, but I liked it.

[Scott Galloway]

I can't say I went. I have finally figured out Coachella. The key is to go. During that weekend, I hang out in my friend's house, watch the day go by, have beers and work out. And then everybody goes to the festival. I go and get Mexican food at a dive place and have some margaritas at the bar.

[Kara Swisher]

Oh, nice.

[Scott Galloway]

And then I go to the after parties. I actually don't go to the festival.

[Kara Swisher]

Have you gone? Did you go? No. You weren't there, were you?

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah, I was at Coachella this weekend.

[Kara Swisher]

Oh, my God. You're kidding.

[Scott Galloway]

No. The Arrested Adolescence tour continues.

[Kara Swisher]

Carol, wow.

[Scott Galloway]

Amazing In N Out burger both days.

[Kara Swisher]

I know. I saw those pictures. That was nice. People, like, insulted you because they're Christian Y but I don't care. They're fantastic burgers. I'm sorry.

[Scott Galloway]

Oh, Jesus is coming back. He's coming to an In N Out.

[Kara Swisher]

We'll get to Jesus in a minute. Jesus Christ, as they say. I just want to say thank you so much for showing up to the premiere of my show. Scott showed up and interviewed me for my first. The premiere of my show Kara Swisher Wants to Live Forever on cnn. And he did a real. You did a great job. You came prepared. I was expecting laughs.

[Scott Galloway]

I learned from the best.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, I know. Well, you did a good job. Asked good questions, and it was a fun party. You stayed long too. You never. I was sort of shocked to look over and there you are still.

[Scott Galloway]

Well, two words. First word, open. Second bar.

[Kara Swisher]

Yes, anytime. For you.

[Scott Galloway]

And there were some important people there that. Oh, fuck. I should talk to some of these people.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, there were. And Jess Tarloff showed up. That was very nice. Yeah, Jess and a bunch of friends.

[Scott Galloway]

All my work wives. Yeah.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, it was really fun. She's great. And her new book's coming out. She owed me her cover. It looks really.

[Scott Galloway]

And the thing that struck me about your show was. Please tell me you should do a shout out. The production values were fantastic. Yes, really beautiful cinematography.

[Kara Swisher]

Ever wonderful was the producers. Yeah.

[Scott Galloway]

The images from the cemetery where you went to your dad's Grave. The. The. It all was. It was beautifully shot.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah. I gotta say, TV at times has got it. Like there is. Like. They don't do, like, YouTube doesn't really. Unless you do it as a television production.

[Scott Galloway]

And you got cock blocked by J.D. vance. That kind of made my weekend.

[Kara Swisher]

Explain what happened.

[Scott Galloway]

Kara's show's supposed to premiere party in

[Kara Swisher]

dc, by the way, and they had

[Scott Galloway]

breaking news to announce that J.D. vance had accomplished abso fucking lutely nothing in Iran.

[Kara Swisher]

I know.

[Scott Galloway]

And they had to delay Kara's premiere

[Kara Swisher]

and I thought for an hour.

[Scott Galloway]

That is so rich. That is just so deliciously ironic.

[Kara Swisher]

We don't care. We don't care.

[Scott Galloway]

I think Peter Thiel called him and said, announce it now.

[Kara Swisher]

I hate that bitch.

[Scott Galloway]

Announce it.

[Kara Swisher]

No, no, it's fine. Whatever. I'm going to LA this week and I'm going to be on Bill Maher as the main guest, which I'm very excited about.

[Scott Galloway]

I heard about that.

[Kara Swisher]

Going to see Gwyneth Paltrow, Susan Bennett,

[Scott Galloway]

who's my Sherpa there. I would texted me and I thought, oh, they're going to ask me to be on again. She's like, I just thought you'd want to know. K. I'm like, oh, yeah, thanks. Oh, that's great. I mean, yeah, that's great.

[Kara Swisher]

Anyway, I'm doing a lot in la. I'm interviewing Clara Wu, who is one of the owners of the Brooklyn Nets and Liberty and stuff about sports. So I'm doing a lot. I'm doing a lot. I may see my friend Harvey Levin. So I'm going to do a lot in LA and I'm going to see for the weekend my beautiful son Louis Swisher, and his lovely girlfriend Ivy.

[Scott Galloway]

Where do you stay when you're in la? I'm in the hotels here at Brooks House.

[Kara Swisher]

Of course, Brooks. You know, we stay at friends. I don't like hotels as much.

[Scott Galloway]

How do you yell at people, though, when your breakfast is late? Like, where's the gym? Where's the.

[Kara Swisher]

I don't. She has everything, you know, Brooke, like, gets me everything that I like and then makes me a nice egg, so. She's excellent. She's an excellent Airbnb host, anyway. And I love her dogs. She has two Frenchies now. Anyway, we gotta get to things. Let's get to things. There's a lot of news. Jesus Christ. There was so much while you're away. I think we've forgotten that stuff. But Pope Leo says he has no fear of the Trump administration after the President Lashed out at him. On Truth Social Sunday night, Trump called the pope, quote, weak on crime and, quote, terrible on foreign policy. In his post, neither one of those are his jobs. He accused Pope Leo of, quote, catering to the radical left and then told him to focus on, quote, being a great pope, not a politician. Trump later posted an AI generated image of himself as Jesus, though it looks like he might have deleted it and told reporters that he thought the image was him as a doctor. Oh, my God, he's such a liar. Not just the pope. Trump called out Tucker Carlson, Megyn Kelly, Candace Owens and Alex Jones over their criticism of the war last week. Alex Jones responded, we are witnessing the Epstein presidency. He's a nod to Scott Galloway there that Candace Owens said that it may be time to put grandpa up in a home. We'll get to the latest on the war, but first, talk about this alienation of everybody. It seems demented. He was tweeting all last night from like 9pm to 4am like, regularly. Thoughts?

[Scott Galloway]

I don't see the strategy here. And granted, I think Trump has had an ability to zag when everyone else is zigging. I thought one of the greatest insights in political history was when Trump told somebody, everybody claims to be socially liberal and fiscally conservative. He said, the key is to be fiscally liberal and socially conservative. And it struck me that that was sort of a genius political positioning. But I fail to see how alienating a core constituency, the Republican Party, and that is evangelical Christians, by taking on the Pope. I mean, people say Social Security is the third rail. I do think the American public is coming to grips with the fact that the wealthiest generation in the history of the planet probably shouldn't be taking $1.2 trillion from the most anxious, obese and depressed generation in history. And that's people under the age of 40. But that used to be the third rail, but I would argue kind of the most obvious third rail. You don't go after the. I mean, don't fuck with El Papa. So I just. Even though I always think there's certain political instincts that the president that I don't see that end up being less wrong than I thought and sometimes right, I do not see any upside here.

[Kara Swisher]

Also, an articulate Pope, a very articulate and younger Pope.

[Scott Galloway]

Outstanding, smart, measured, everything you would want in a leader. What are your thoughts? I don't get this at all.

[Kara Swisher]

I think this guy is incredibly popular. I don't understand why. I think he's jealous of his popularity and his intelligence. And, you know, this guy's been speaking out as popes sometimes do on wars. You know, Francis did the same thing, and we don't want to see all this war. And the way you talk about, like last week when you weren't here talking, you know, the decimation of a civilization in just as a tactic. It was just demented. It was demented. And I think he was responsibly talking out the way a pope might do. And he has been very firm on war. Like, let's stop it. Let's stop the war thing. He's still, you know, awfully conservative, even though you don't think about it. But I suppose he seems liberal because he says no war. I don't know how that is. No war, because. And he dovetails, by the way, with the media, with the MAGA media, which is very against the war. Like, not just Marjorie Taylor Greene, another one. There's bunches of them that are now. Tim Pool, all of them are sort of. I mean, to an extent, Rogan. But he, of course, you know, high fived him at this whatever wrestling stupid thing they were at. But I think, you know, they're like, MAGA media doesn't speak full of maga. I'm like, they kind of do. They kind of. There's millions and millions and millions of followers, and they're growing like crazy. And so I'm not so sure picking a fight with these mouthy people, from Alex Jones to Megyn Kelly and Tucker Carlson, Candace and Owen and Marjorie Taylor Greene's a particularly good idea at this moment. But I don't know. I think he. As I've said, I think he's suffering deeply, cognitively, and he's losing it. That's my feeling. Just looking at the tweets seems to me, yeah, he.

[Scott Galloway]

It does feel like he's lashing out. I don't. Yeah, I'm having trouble. Susie Wiles has ended up being more genius and crazy. This just feels crazy.

[Kara Swisher]

It feels as though she has breast cancer. You know, she may not be as there as present. She says she is, but it feels like she's left the building.

[Scott Galloway]

Oh, I didn't know that.

[Kara Swisher]

I don't know who's around him. And then, look, Marco Rubio looked like a loser at that w. Whatever. Whatever was happening, the mf, whatever the

[Scott Galloway]

fight, invited the UFC fight at the White House.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, you have to go.

[Scott Galloway]

No, there's no way I'm going.

[Kara Swisher]

Oh, come on. With a little camera on your head. That would be so good.

[Scott Galloway]

I find UFC fights disturbing. I really don't like seeing young men who are in peak physical shape beating each other up like that. Even boxing, which I think is. I can see it's such an. In some ways, such. So incredible even that disturbs me now as I get older.

[Kara Swisher]

I went to a lot of boxing matches with my grandfather when I was a kid. Not a lot, but enough. Wrestling. He was into wrestling, boxing. My brother Jeff went to a lot of them. Anyway, he was a big sports and wrestling and boxing nut, but. And was a promoter of a lot of stuff up in Northeast Pennsylvania.

[Scott Galloway]

Cole and boxing. And you turned out lesbian. What a shocker. What a shocker.

[Kara Swisher]

I know, I know.

[Scott Galloway]

I think Trump's in the batter, you homophobe. Anyways, I can just hear people now going, something to do with your environment.

[Kara Swisher]

Yes, yes, I think it had to do. Exactly. I'm a lesbian because my grandfather took me to boxing. So as of this recording, by the way, the point is, it's all about what's happening in Iran. And with Iran and the blockade of the Strait of Hormuz is way with more than 15 US warships in place to support the. Oh, my God, this feels like a bad idea. Trump announced the blockade plan on Sunday, accusing Iran of world extortion. He'd know his threats came after peace talks ended, as, you know, without a resolution, which often happens, by the way. I give J.D. vance a hard time, but these things take time. Obviously he was there leading the negotiations to the US and said Iran chose not to accept our terms. I think there was issues around the nuclear proliferation stuff. Trump is also reported looking at limited military strikes in Iran in addition to the blockade. It's really hard for him because he's stuck, as you said, he's painted himself into a corner many times. They're not budging. And also I want to note we've seen a big new type of target in this war. Big tech data centers. Last month, Amazon data centers in the UAE and Bahrain were damaged in drone strikes. And Iran has been threatening to attack US companies in the Middle East. I don't know what to say here. What a mess. He just can't get himself out of this situation. Since these people aren't budging, even if they're on their back foot, they still have advantage in a weird way, the way Ukraine does with Russia. It's very hard to unseat them.

[Scott Galloway]

So I actually think the illuminating analogy here is the WGA strike, and that is key. Robert McNamara said this back in the Vietnam War, that to defeat an enemy, you have to really understand them. And Also, you have to understand the incentives. And so going back to the WGA strike, they said, all right, we're going to go on strike, which means your ability to create content has been cut off. But what they didn't realize is the most powerful person on the other side of the table was Netflix. And Netflix could look around and say, okay, our cue people's playlist is two or three years deep. I could watch Netflix for the next two or three years and still not get through my playlist. Linear tv, especially late night tv, which people tune in every night. They're not interested in watching Jimmy Kimmel run down the day's news from two years ago. The other streaming networks, who had not been spending $18 billion a year, who had spent 10, $2 billion a year, their pool was really shallow. So the most powerful person on the other side of the table had an incentive to not come to an agreement. And the WGA never recognized that they were negotiating against themselves because the other side would pretend to care and not offend anybody and make sure the strike went on for as long as possible to cede advantage to Netflix as everybody. All that happened coming out of that strike was the most powerful player on the other side of the table garnered and registered additional value. And this is exactly what's going on here. And to a certain extent, J.D. vance, they poured honey on him and sent him hunting for bears. Because the reality is the incentive was to draw out the talks for two or three weeks, have an opportunity to maybe rearm regroup your missile launch capability, lay some more mines in the Strait of Hormuz. But their incentive is for this thing to go longer because they have stumbled upon vis a vis our, in our head, up your ass, strategic planning around not going in with allies, around not securing the Strait of Hormuz before military action. No aims, no goals, no goals. Not enabling and coordinating with our Gulf allies. Iran has, we have given Iran something that quite frankly, is probably more dangerous and effective than enriched uranium, and that is their ability to put a stranglehold on a chokehold of the global economy called the Strait. So they have an incentive for this to go longer. Right now, the IRGC looks to be gaining strength, not losing it. Through this, they have shown an ability to resist or survive this type of military action. And they have stumbled upon a choke point which has given them unbelievable political leverage.

[Kara Swisher]

They had, but didn't think they had before. It's a really. And sort of Trump's like, don't block that straight. And it'll be interesting with US ships there. Now this could be an economic way to squeeze them, which is important I think, as always, but it puts, I'm like a ship is there. Oh my God, a drone, a speedboat coming towards it. You just feel like we're kind of big and right out there, so open for attack in a way that they don't have to do much to really create a problem for all of us. Right. So that's 15 ships sitting there like, oh geez, this guy. This is the guy who governed, who campaigned on America first and not this. So I think it only hurt his political standing here and at the same time make them crazier than ever. When they don't behave, which they don't want, they don't have to behave. And it's their, you know, they have the, I guess they have the home advantage in some weird way compared unless we really want to commit troops. I can't imagine being. I don't have sympathy for J.D. vance because I think he's the cybertruck of politicians, but they really put him in a situation and he was not going to succeed in these talks.

[Scott Galloway]

That's exactly right.

[Kara Swisher]

He also sent him failed venture capitalist with two real estate people. And then apparently the guy who's leading, I was reading David Ignatius's column and I'm going to mispronounce his name. So I'm not going to leading it as one of the possible candidates to run Iran at some point. Very, very worldly person, high level on every ad they sent, apparently their best people and we sent them, which is like, I know we probably sent experts with them too. But it's not like we aren't showing our finest diplomatic showing if we're going to have any seriousness if maybe, maybe he doesn't. Because he said, and he's like, I don't care if it works or not. That's not some messaging from the president you like to hear. I don't know, he just keeps stepping in it because he's old.

[Scott Galloway]

The majority of battles are won before anyone steps on the field. And that is their supply chain, their strength, their military, their brute force advantage. This negotiation was over before it started because one group showed up with incentives to not negotiate or to extend the negotiations to rearm, but not to come to an agreement. Now, having said that, to be fair, this is in my view the exact right move given where we are right now, and that is that we block the Strait of Hormuz from any Iranian ports because that will bring European allies and China to the table who Quite frankly are doing that whole who have more to lose than we do now. This notion of we broke it, you fix it, it diminishes our credibility globally for a long time. But something we have taken for granted, like a lot of things we've taken for granted, that took huge sacrifice, huge resources, a lot of brave patriots from around the world giving their lives such that we can enjoy these things. One of those things is the freedom of maritime navigation. And that as Singapore has decided not to sequester and block and control the Straits of Singapore and if you start blocking straits through the fear of military action such as Noah will ensure the 100 or $200 million of cargo that strait is blocked off. So everybody, especially the golf players, and most especially Russia, Iran and China have a vested interest in the Strait of Hormuz being open for their ships. So America and I think this is the right.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, many Ignatius thought so too. But here's the thing. I just. These little drones and these little boats, I feel like 15 US warships. Yikes. I just feel like we are putting ourselves way out there unnecessarily now that this is our only choice. That's the problem. I think it just.

[Scott Galloway]

Let's be clear. Not going to Congress, not enlisting Gulf allies, not enlisting European allies, not having a clear exit strategy after certain military objectives were met or not met has put us in the definition of a quagmire. By the way, just a quick fun fact. The mining sweeping or the de mining vessels in the Navy, do you know what they're made out of?

[Kara Swisher]

No.

[Scott Galloway]

They're made out of wood. Isn't that interesting?

[Kara Swisher]

Such that they're not the metals they don't track.

[Scott Galloway]

Then the drones, then the mines can't detect them. And then when they detect them, they have unbelievable. They're ancient, basically ancient structures with the most sophisticated radar equipment. And when they detect a mine, they drop a metal figure and then it's drawn to the metal figure and they blow it up. It's really sophisticated technology. But right now they have to say to China and Iran, we're going to create an incentive for you to make sure that the strait is open. And a multinational force that keeps the strait open to everyone's benefit, that is objectives 1, 2 and 3 here.

[Kara Swisher]

No one wants to help Trump because he's not Jesus. But speaking of the Sad situation for J.D. vance, by the way, J.D. vance happens to be Catholic, so that's even better. And he failed in Iran, which I think everyone expected, despite some last minute campaigning from him as well as Trump's endorsement. Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orban has been ousted after 16 years in power. Not a good sign for the Trump people. Orban conceded defeat in the country's general election on Sunday, saying the results are painful but unequivocal. His opponent, Peter Magyar, called the election a miracle, telling supporters that we have liberated Hungary and have taken back our country. By the way, Magyar was a loyalist of Orban and just, just broke with him over a pardon. And so it's like as if a rhino Republican won essentially. He's not Mr. Liberal in any way. More than 77% of registered voters cast ballots. Amazing. The highest turnout in a Hungarian election since the fall of communism. It's a really interesting winner. Obviously he's super handsome and kind of sexy and everything else, but he's not as liberal as you think. Let's just be clear. And he also was an Orban in the Orban University, switched parties. But again, it's very much like, oh, who, who switched? I don't know. George Conway becoming the president. You know what I mean? Someone who was conservative and now it looks as if he's not so. And George can be conservative and liberal on different things, but he's also running for Congress. By the way, is this an indicator of a larger move away from the far right? I mean, obviously Democrats can learn a lot, but this is a little different in Hungary. But it is a. It's the end of an era. And J.D. vance and Trump hugged, bear hugged Orban, and so did Tucker Carlson, so did Elon Musk. That whole gang did. Also thoughts?

[Scott Galloway]

Since the U.S. s decision to bomb Iran, or increase, whatever you want to call it, increase the military escalation, or some people would call it a new war. This is the biggest thing that's happened in the last month. This is Europe and a key component and a healthy, important, powerful economy. Saying, rejecting the movement to the far right. He said nice things about, said he hopes the UK Rejoins the European Union. It is a huge win for Ukraine. They are pro Ukraine and it is a huge defeat for Russia that was hoping to turn Orban and Hungary into a Russian satellite. Orban was the friction, and she was headed that way. Orban was the friction in more European aid and support of Ukraine. It says something. It was symbolic that JD Vance went over there and after going over, Orban's popularity actually went down. But something even more important, or I would argue more important, happened. They had the largest turnout in the history of Hungary. A much greater percentage of Hungarians voted than have ever voted in a U.S. election. There were people singing in the metro. There were people laughing and crying. This was really a wonderful moment for the west. And that's still not the best thing that happened here. The best thing that happened, and it's a real testament to Viktor Orban was he conceded the election immediately.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah.

[Scott Galloway]

He said, he thanked his people, he talked about Hungary, and he conceded the election. And when I saw three judges seeking Senate approval to become judges and all three of those bitches. And when I say bitch, I mean someone who has a low character, I use it as an androgynous comment. Refused to acknowledge that Biden had won the 20. Viktor Orban has greater character now than many of our Republican elected officials. If you do not concede elections, the very basis, the very foundation of democracy does not exist. And a right wing, some people would call fascist in Eastern Europe had the decency and the character to concede the election.

[Kara Swisher]

Yep, absolutely. I mean, he's a, you know, it'll be interesting to see what he does next. He'll probably become a right wing figure, but it seems like right wingery is sort of on the way out. This guy is a dream dressed up version of a conservative, for sure. But at the same time, he was, as you said back in Ukraine, was not a satellite of Russia. Let's hope he, you know, he certainly looks great. I know, it's, he seems young and vibrant. Orban seems old and corrupt, essentially. It'll be interesting to see which way he goes, how he deals with. Well, Trump's. I think Trump is a past tense figure at this point for a lot of these leaders, whoever it happens to be. But it really is interesting. And you're right, this country looked like. When I saw all those crowds, all those people, I was like, oh, this guy. Absolute toast in the way people are handling it. And they just were sick and tired of corruption and fascism. And this is a country which has suffered at the hands of fascists and different difficult leaders for a long time. So what's our excuse? That's what I say. Anyway. Let's take a quick break. When we come back, Eric Swalwell ends his campaign for governor of California. What a mess. Support for this show comes from NetSuite. Every business is asking the same question. How do we make AI work for us? It can be a daunting task, but sitting on the sidelines is not an option because your competitors are already making their move. But with Netsuite by Oracle, you can put AI to work today. NetSuite is a top rated AI, Cloud ERP trusted by over 43,000 businesses, it's a unified suite that brings your financials, inventory, content, commerce, HR and CRM into a single source of truth. The connected data is what makes your AI smarter. It knows how to intelligently automate routine tasks, how to deliver actionable insights and can help you cut costs and make fast AI powered decisions with confidence, giving you total flexibility. From software and IT services to healthcare equipment, manufacturing, financial services and many other great American industries, NetSuite delivers a customized solution for your business business. If your revenues are at least in the seven figures, get a free business guide demystifying AI at netsuite.com pivot the guide is free to you at netsuite.com pivot netsuite.com pivot.

[Scott Galloway]

Support for the show comes from Vanguard to all the financial advisors out there. The ones whose job is to help their clients keep more of what they earn. Vanguard is here to help you out Out Vanguard is slashing fees again, this time for more than 50 of its funds. That's on top of big fee cuts they already gave last year to investors in 87 of their funds. In an increasingly high priced world, Vanguard is staying true to excellence without expense. Not only do your clients keep more of what they invest, they get sophisticated, active and index funds at industry leading, low cost and a fixed income team obsessed with consistent outperformance. Low fees give Vanguard's skilled bond managers more freedom to maneuver as they pursue that goal. Goal and low fees help you deliver greater value as an advisor. Top performance shouldn't come at a higher cost. Go see the record for [e-mail] impact that's vanguard.com impact all investing is subject to risk. Vanguard Marketing Corporation Distributor. Hi, I'm Brene Brown. And I'm Adam Grant and we're here to invite you to the Curiosity Shop, a podcast that's a place for listening, wondering, thinking, feeling and questioning. It's going to be fun. We rarely agree, but we almost never disagree. And we're always learning. That's true. You can subscribe to the Curiosity shop on YouTube or follow in your favorite podcast app to automatically receive new episodes every Thursday.

[Kara Swisher]

Scott we're back. Representative Eric Swalwell of California is says he is resigning from Congress and has suspended his campaign already for California governor amid multiple allegations of rape, sexual assault and misconduct. In a post on X, the Congressman said he is deeply sorry for mistakes in judgment I've made in my past. He said he would fight the quote, false allegations, unquote. The allegations triggered Swift political fallout, with Swalwell losing nearly all of his endorsements within 24 hours. The governor's race remains crowded with other leading Democrats being billionaire Tom Steyer and former Representative Katie Porter. Just so you're clear, this was started online by someone named Ms. Frazzled, who had done an interview with Swalwell and then had gotten a lot of incoming about his behavior, which was very well known across the spectrum. I did not. But I think a lot of people within politics knew about him the same way I think many people knew about Gonzalez. Like, there's a lot of men in politics that people know their behavior. And I think this was pretty well known, which is incredible that he. He walked into this race with a bomb strapped to his chest. He had to have known. Or maybe he doesn't think he did anything. That's what he seems to do. So any thoughts on this? You could possibly see Kamala Harris come back in? I don't know. What do you think about this? Steve Hilton was ahead. What do you think's gonna happen here?

[Scott Galloway]

Well, there's two things, and that is its impact on the governor's race. And then what this says about the dynamic of potential or accusations of misconduct and how we're supposed to evaluate that. So I'll go in that order. I think this probably is going to make Tom Steyer governor. I think that California is still a heavily Democratic state. I think if the Democrats consolidate to one or two leaders and that person gets into the general after the jungle primary, whatever you call, I think the Democrats gonna win. And I think Steyer has the money. I think the next shoe to drop. I think Speaker Pelosi was waiting till there was something resembling an emerging leader here. I think it's Tom Starr. I think she will endorse him.

[Kara Swisher]

I think he will be Ro Khanna already has. So is Gene Fonda.

[Scott Galloway]

Interestingly, I think he will be one of the two top candidates. He has the money. The unions don't like him, but money is more important than unions, even in California. I think with Swalwell dropping out and a consolidation across the Democrats, I think this is probably the moment that we'll look back on and say this is how Steyer became governor. Now to the second issue. And we face this all the time on boards. When a senior level person has sex with somebody and then that person accuses them of harassment or conduct, sometimes they're bullshit cases and opportunistic. Other times there's a power imbalance that the person takes advantage of. My view on this shit is the following. We're not here. And I hate the Democratic Party for having purity tests around people having sex. I think when, when Al Franken or whoever gets run out of Dodge such that Chris and Gillibrand can have a.

[Kara Swisher]

I'm not sure this is comparable, but go ahead.

[Scott Galloway]

Can have a seven minute run for presidency where people have extramarital affairs. That in my view, you know, okay, be careful who you judge on this shit. But if you are, and this is true on boards, once you are above a certain level of power as a general, not a general as a red line, you fuck anybody who works here, you're out. It creates too much risk. So for me, the question is, if law enforcement needs to get involved and decide if there was a crime here and sexual assault is obviously a very serious crime, needs to be investigated, then have it investigated. But before that even happens, if it's, did you have sex with a staffer as an elected representative? If the answer is yes, then you are out. If you're the Secretary of Homeland Security and you're fucking your number two, then you are out. If you're the Attorney General in Georgia investigating an important case against the President and you are fucking your number two, then you are out. The staffers are there to fuck each other, not the elected representative who has power over them. Because all you're doing is injecting risk into the entire organization and there is a power imbalance. So whether or not he's guilty of sexual assault, the crime, legal authorities should investigate that, but he should be out before that. If he was engaging in sexual relationships with the staffers, there needs to be a clear line here. There's too much of a power imbalance.

[Kara Swisher]

What's interesting is how many people knew about it. Right. He's texted me, he's wanted to come on the podcast. And I wrote back. I'm like, I'm waiting until there's two left and then I'll think about who we're gonna. You know, I think there's. There was so many people in this jungle.

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah. Star wars teams with us trying to get on.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, exactly. They were all, every one of them. Every. Every candidate in primaries, whether it's Iowa or Texas or wherever. They're all trying to get on these things. But I was like, well, let's just wait till there's two. Which is what I told them. But I did, I did think I was surprised to find out. And by the way, kudos to the people online who actually handled it rather well. It was, it was. Until nobody. No Credible journalist from a major media organization would look into it. And now it was broken online by this Ms. Frazzled, who had done an interview with him and then had a lot of incoming. But she covers education, like that's the thing. And I think a lot of the political reporters had some sense of this, from what I could understand. But it was broken by the Chronicle and cnn. Pam Brown did a report on it. I was sort of flummoxed by one, why would you run when. And this many things were you would be aware of things you did? And then two, why nobody in media had started to look at it. Because same thing with Tony Gonzalez, too. Like a lot of the. And there's more than that in Congress that I don't think that you should be on a hunt for this stuff necessarily. But this was really well known. Now, in hindsight, like, I think it was kind of healthy for the Democratic Party to speak out, right? To like people to. Even if they were friends with him or had endorsed him. I thought that was relatively healthy response from the Democratic Party for lots of reasons. And there should be an investigation. That's exactly what every single party in this deserves and the public should expect. And that was the only part I was sort of like, really? It was. I was not surprised. I guess I'm not surprised anytime by anything, but I was amazed by how many people within these parties, both of them know this stuff pretty well. That always surprises me. I don't know about you.

[Scott Galloway]

Look, I think we need to. I mean, there's just need structural reform or this will continue to happen. We need Citizens United to go away. We need Gerrymander to go away. We need to pay Representative Swalwell and the other representatives five to ten times more than they're getting paid now, such that they can do their job and not have to compromise themselves and start trading stocks. I heard Ro Khanna, one of my heroes, is actually outperforming the S and P all of a sudden. We need structural reform. And part of that structural reform is very clear lines. And that is if you are a powerful senator or congressperson the moment someone comes to work for you.

[Kara Swisher]

I work any. Not powerful. Any.

[Scott Galloway]

Any. A hundred percent. Any. Any person elected to federal office. It's awesome to be you. You're gonna go. You have the best rapid bar. What do you do? Oh, I'm the elected congressperson from the great state of California. Wow. I would really like to have sex with you. Wow. You. Sir, we'll find a reservation for you, sir. Sir, let us escort you to your plane and circumvent security. Sir, let us be. Let. Can you be our honored guest? Can you be the commencement speaker at your former high school? It is awesome to be an elected federal official. One of the few downsides is that anyone who works for you, that you have power over their livelihood. You cannot have sex with. Simple, simple, cut and dry. No story, no context. Dependent. If you decide you have feelings for each other, then one of you needs to resign and pursue the relationship because it creates way too much risk distraction from the important work they do. And guess what? I'm sympathetic. And by the way, I'm not one of these people that doesn't believe in intra office romance. If you get a bunch of people in a closed and tense environment, they're going to start having sex. Sex. It's the senior level people that have power that don't get to do it. The young people have at it. As long as it's consensual, as long as no one feels pressured. That's what young people are supposed to be doing.

[Kara Swisher]

Well, this case has more than that. This is not just.

[Scott Galloway]

That's not this. I agree with you.

[Kara Swisher]

Right. So, I mean, it's a problem for you.

[Scott Galloway]

Let's have some common sense laws or common sense norms and standards. When you have this kind of power imbalance, you are injecting risk and your fly is up and locked. You take it off campus. You want to have extramarital affairs, you want to have orgies, you want to have sex with people the same sex as you while passing anti or homophobic laws, fine, it's a lack of character. But you don't get expelled from Congress. You abuse your power dynamic and inject the entire office to risk. You're out. Make it simpler for them. No gray area.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, I guess. I don't know. We'll see what happens here. It's not a great story anyway. And speaking of not a great story, Treasury Secretary Scott Besant met with the country's top bank executives last week along with Fed Chair Jerome Powell, warning them about Anthropic's new Mythos model. Besant raised concerns about cybersecurity, making sure banks are aware of the risks, taking precautions. Anthropic itself has been sounding the alarm, saying Mythos is so powerful, it's potentially dangerous. It's not been released the public yet. Instead they're keeping it to a small group of companies to testify. It finds vulnerabilities in all manner of places. This Besant meeting appears to be separate from the Pentagon's clash with Anthropic, which is still playing out in court. You know, this is really a problem where the, as these, as these models continue to evolve in terms of staying too far ahead of the defense, the offense is much stronger than the defense. And of course Besant is talking to banks about using it, but also at the same time using it to protect themselves. What a mess. What a mess. Another mess.

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah, I don't have a, I find that the worst thing to do right now is to be, be a cabinet member going on and trying to defend these policies.

[Kara Swisher]

I think it is the government's interest to help companies figure out as these see, one might start to regulate these things in terms of the way we do everything else, nuclear arms, et cetera, et cetera, development of important technologies. And if it's going to be dangerous to companies and let everyone in the back door and take everybody's money, it seems, I don't know. I mean, Bessens is doing the right thing here, but it's just ridiculous that the Pentagon is then more with anthropic, which came forward, which companies usually don't. In this case, often companies keep it to themselves until a disaster anyway. Let's go on a quick break. When we come back, Sam Alton's home gets targeted in multiple attacks. How is Trump's psychology having an impact

[Scott Galloway]

on the great power conflict? There were folks who for years could never imagine the US Carrying out limited strikes on Iran. Right. If you go back to the 12 Day War, he dropped those bunker busters. Right. And you had presidents through multiple administrations who never would have gone to full scale war with Iran. And here they are. I'm Preet Bharara and this week CNN's Chief National Security analyst Jim Sciuto joins me to discuss the Iran war, our

[Kara Swisher]

fraying alliances and the rise of Russia and China.

[Scott Galloway]

The episode is out now. Search and follow. Stay tuned with Preet wherever you get your podcasts. When you think of a phone, not a smartphone, but like a telephone, you almost certainly think of one particular device. This boxy thing that sat on your desk. It has a bunch of buttons on it. It has a handset that you pick up. It has a braided cable. You're thinking of a phone called the Western Electric 500. And for decades it was absolutely everywhere in American homes. It was essentially illegal not to have it in your house if you had a phone. This week on Version History, our chat show about the best and worst and most interesting products in tech history, we're telling the story of the Western Electric 500, which is actually the story about the AT&T monopoly and how it fell apart. All that on version history on YouTube and wherever you get podcasts.

[Kara Swisher]

Scott we're back with more news. Sam Altman's home was targeted twice over the weekend. Once with a suspect throwing a Molotov cocktail and the second time with a car stopping firing a gun at residence. Lives in San Francisco. The subject in the first suspect in the first attack was later found at the OpenAI headquarters threatening to burn down the building. Probably has some mental problems. Altman responded to the first attack in a blog post saying he emphasized with anti technology sentiments and clearly technology isn't always good for everyone. In the post, Sam Altman noted that the incident came a few days after an incendiary article was published about him and the New Yorker raising questions about his trustworthiness. He shouldn't blame the article. It was an excellent article by Ronan Farrow. That's the not what caused it. But nearly a third of young adults say AI makes them angry. And these are new polls. This is unfortunately where it leads and to blame. Using the word incendiary was really unfortunate on Alton's behalf. But there is, this is. I hate to blame someone for what's happening here because anyone that uses violence should be widely derided by everybody. But this is how it goes. I used to say this to them, if you, if you don't do something about this, you're gonna have to armor plate your Tesla, unfortunately because people start to get really violent is what. Where it often leads to your thoughts?

[Scott Galloway]

I just think, I mean speaking of red lines here, we just can't, we can't in any way justify. We have to move swiftly against any violence against any citizen. And I'm not a fan of Sam Altman. I think big tech has done tremendous damage in these CEOs have done tremendous damage to the United States and most importantly to our youth ripping at the fabric of America. We have to have zero tolerance for violence against them in any fashion.

[Kara Swisher]

Absolutely.

[Scott Galloway]

You know, I don't like Sam Altman. I think he's. We were talking about this off mic earlier when you were on my podcast. I think there are few people who have seen such a 180 in their brand in such a short span of time. Effectively the brand margin of tech executives is they're very likable, they're very charming. We need to do better. She should run for president. Oh, I love her book. Lean in. And then over time we find out that they make a bunch of incremental Decisions that are bad for America such that they can get richer and richer and eventually they turn into a Bond villain. That march is usually about a 7 to 10 year March. For Sam Altman it was 18 months. Remember, Sam was the more thoughtful guy with the hushed tones. Like there are really, really. We are very concerned about some of the implications of AI and we need to. Oh, Senator, I don't own any equity.

[Kara Swisher]

That's Dario now, but go ahead.

[Scott Galloway]

I don't own any equity in OpenAI. Oh, what a guy. This nice young gay man in T shirts who seems to be the caring tech CEO. Okay. I just want to go on record as saying this guy will say or do anything to make more money. That's why they go into this business. There are easier ways to find self satisfaction than running a tech company right now. You're there for the money. You get tremendous pressure and obligation to represent your shareholders. You want to win. It is a Thunderdome. It is easy to understand why they get there. The real failure is there's abso fucking lutely no regulation on these individuals. And so when people start coming at them, I don't like it when people start yelling insults verbally at J.D. vance. I think there has to be a level of civility and safety such that we work things out at a government level level. And I know there's a lot of people who disagree with my views on Israel. People don't assault me verbally on the street. I feel like I'm poking the bear here. I think it's important. I saw Senator John Thune in Nantucket. I went up to him and I thanked him for his service. I don't agree. I disagree with almost everything he does. And I immediately disclosed I'm a Democrat, but I said we're both Americans. One of the hallmarks of a progressive society that we all want to live in is we recognize we're all Americans. And as long as we're operating within the confines of the law, which quite frankly Sam Altman is, and that's the problem is there aren't any laws. He deserves to live in peace and safety.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah. Let me say he shouldn't have blamed the article for it. This was a rarely well reported article. Suddenly people don't hate Sam Altman because of this article. They have these feelings and unstable people act on them because of a perceived rapaciousness by tech companies.

[Scott Galloway]

Is probably a mentally ill young man.

[Kara Swisher]

That's correct. That's correct.

[Scott Galloway]

Who read about Sam Altman, you know, the guy who killed John. Crazy people are Drawn. They believe that in a historic act of violence, it will restore or give them social capital. That's why they do it. I don't know anything about this individual, but there's a very good chance it's someone who's isolated and is hoping to gain social capital through what they see is a heroic act of violence. And the FBI and our security apparatus need to ensure that famous people can walk the streets and have some semblance. My old home. I bought a home in San Francisco and I bought it for $720,000. And two years later, I wanted to move to New York, and I sold it for $950,000 and thought it was a fucking real estate genius. That home ended up being next to the home, where ultimately it's no longer there now, so you don't need to look up the address. But it ended up being the home next to where Mark Zuckerberg lived in San Francisco in the neighbor.

[Kara Swisher]

You're in my neighborhood.

[Scott Galloway]

And now my home is where his security detail lived.

[Kara Swisher]

Oh, yeah.

[Scott Galloway]

Because they basically started blocking off the block.

[Kara Swisher]

I know. It's my neighborhood.

[Scott Galloway]

So after that election in the Netherlands, and I love this, the prime minister stepped down and then got on his bike and rode away. We live in a such peaceful society. When I'm done, I got on a bike.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, he walked off on a bike.

[Scott Galloway]

I mean, I'm like, they, they. They win. They win.

[Kara Swisher]

Let me tell you, they're covered by security.

[Scott Galloway]

He doesn't need the beast. He. He doesn't need. He doesn't need his kids escorted to school.

[Kara Swisher]

I have been, unfortunately, seeing the. The need for it. They do need it. It's really crazy. But one of the things was, I was like, we gotta deal with what's happening here. You're gonna have crazy people attracted to you. It's gonna happen because it's inevitable. And with just the enormous wealth, the same thing, it's really creates real problems. But you should not. Whoever did these things are considering it. You are horrible people. That's how you deal with problems. There's lots of ways to deal with problems. And even if you feel desperate, you should seek help.

[Scott Galloway]

The anger needs to be funneled towards the ballot booth.

[Kara Swisher]

That's right.

[Scott Galloway]

And that is. I need people who will keep these people in check. I need people that when Jeff Bezos or Elon Musk peace out to Florida and Texas, that there are elected representatives who will figure out a way to tax the earnings they accreted from the great states of Washington and from California. I need People who will ensure that social media is gated. There is no reason people under the age of 16. But be clear folks, if you're waiting on the better angels of these tech executives to show up, don't hold your breath. And then when they take advantage of the system and accrete massive wealth, that is not a cause for violence.

[Kara Swisher]

We do have to acknowledge there is a huge I get yelled at for not stopping Elon Musk before and I get like more than yelled at, like threatened. So I don't know what to say. It's not the way to handle these things anyway. Lastly, a quick grab bag of other topics I'd like to hit. Over a thousand Hollywood heavyweights have released a letter opposing Paramount's acquisition of Warner Brothers Discovery, saying the deal would harm the industry. Paramount responded to the letter by saying we hear and understand the concerns of some in our creative community have raised and respect the commitment to protecting and expanding creativity. This transaction uniquely brings together complementary strengths to create a company that can greenlight more projects back bold ideas, support talent across multiple stages of their careers and bring stories to audiences at truly global scale while strengthening competition by ensuring multiple scale players in investing and creative talent. They also said they continue their commitment to increasing output to a minimum of 30 high quality feature films with full theatrical releases, continuing to license content and brands and they said we understand the concerns, we're going to do what we say. Scott and I do not believe them but they're reestablishing their commitment to it very quickly. Scott, reaction where's this going? Also Europe is looking like it's gonna possibly block part of it slow going. They'll eventually get it through ICE.

[Scott Galloway]

In what is the greatest movie of all time, Obi Wan Jedi Obi Wan Kenobi feels a disturbance in the forest cause the planet of Alderaan is killed by a space laser and millions of people screamed. If this deal goes through, you're gonna hear millions of people in the creative community scream because this is going to be the most destructive force of human capital in the creative community we've ever seen. There is no way they can justify this price if they don't implement the AI that they believe will give them the efficiencies they need to justify this price. So I've been saying this for three months, where the fuck are the unions?

[Kara Swisher]

This should have gone the way they were going to do it, which was spin off CNN and spin off spin off the studios and then maybe do acquisitions of pieces of it that made economic sense.

[Scott Galloway]

They're too Fucking late. This letter should have come out. They should have said to Ellison and also the Gulf states and the people financing this deal. The day this goes through, you are not gonna get a single piece of content made. This is unworkable for us.

[Kara Swisher]

Absolutely. Next one. Elon Musk gave $10 million to two major Republican super PACs at the end of last year, according to campaign finance disclosure. Then the FTC investigated Abbot firms that had steered clear of Twitter as they are allowed to do, and those firms just settled to make it all go away. He's been using fcc, the FTC in all manner of ways, including Marco Rubio around the center for countering digital hate in order to get his beef swun that he can't win in court. And the FTC does this and these firms finally just settled, even though it's within their right not to advertise at a Nazi point. Hornbar, the quick thoughts.

[Scott Galloway]

This goes back to the same thing. That's two things. You need structural reform. He's allowed to do this until we get rid of citizens of the United. Billionaires are going to continue to control more and more billionaires and corporations are going to continue to leak, or we're going to continue to leak capital from labor in the middle class and consumers to billionaires and corporations because of their ability to strategically weaponize government. 300 people now are responsible for a fifth of all PAC spending. And guess what? They can deploy it wherever they need it strategically. The best ROI in history. History. I've said this personally. I give a little bit of money to politicians. I'm shocked. I don't mind that they're whores. What shocked me is what sheep whores they are.

[Kara Swisher]

Well, you don't expect the FLTC and the FCC.

[Scott Galloway]

No, I don't ask for anything. But my point is.

[Kara Swisher]

But I'm saying usually those agencies didn't do this and now they oh, it's gone.

[Scott Galloway]

Look, this has been going on for a while. These guys are more brazen about it and quite frankly more efficient about it. There needs to be an absolute restriction until Citizens United is overturned. We're gonna have more and more of this also until this straight corruption. It used to be more opaque. But I've said if I had someone in prison who I wanted out, I think for between one and $3 million through a third party, I could get them out within 24 months.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, the head of the FTC and the head of the FCC really are creatures of these. Of Elon Musk essentially and others. And a federal judge has dismissed President Trump, he doesn't always win. $10 billion lawsuit against the Street Journal, which claimed the paper defamed Trump with a story saying he had sent the birthday card to Jeffrey Epstein. The courts keep pushing back at Trump. In this case, the Journal fought as opposed to CBS and settled. Or other abc. CBS settled. So it looks like the Journal has a real victory here, I think. Good thing he does all these stupid nuisance cases and loses them.

[Scott Galloway]

We've been really weak on government corruption. The one, the silver lining here, the thing that's holding is First Amendment. It does feel like both Trump appointees and appointees before Trump are saying free speech is paramount and we're going to throw this out. The problem is enough suits creates a chill. I was talking to a producer of a very popular show and they said, we're checking everything now, double triple checking. And occasionally when something's on the margin, we don't print it because we're freaked out. So. But it does appear when these things do go to court, they are universally swatted away.

[Kara Swisher]

Absolutely. Well, we'll see where that goes. He doesn't have much time. Trump does not have much time. All right, Scott, one more quick break. We'll be back for wins and fails. Okay, Scott, let's hear some wins and fails. Would you like to go first?

[Scott Galloway]

I'll go first. So my win is Kara Swisher wants to live forever. I was pleasantly surprised.

[Kara Swisher]

I was shocked.

[Scott Galloway]

I knew you would do a good job, but I was really surprised, quite frankly, at the production values. It feels cinematic, the colors, the cinematography. It felt very rich, for lack of a better word. It felt like, you know what? It felt like. I thought that could have easily been an original scripted series on Apple tv. It felt very. For lack of, better. It just felt very rich. So congratulations. I think it's nice for you. I know you spent a lot of time and I really. I've only seen the first episode, but I really enjoyed it. And it airs Saturday night at 10. When does it air?

[Kara Swisher]

9.

[Scott Galloway]

Saturday night at 9.

[Kara Swisher]

Unless J.D. vance.

[Scott Galloway]

Unless J.D.

[Kara Swisher]

vance calls me every week.

[Scott Galloway]

That made me so happy.

[Kara Swisher]

I know it.

[Scott Galloway]

I'm like, oh, my God, I turned it on. I turned it on because I want you to have good numbers. And I turned on both TVs. I don't know if they count them twice. And then I see J.D. vance. I'm like, this has to be. I'm like, I love to see Kara's face when she saw J.D. vance at her in an hour slot.

[Kara Swisher]

I know we laughed, you know we had an extra copy. We had a party. We were having a party in D.C. tammy had ran it and we had a copy of the show. So we were able to show it to people. But first we're like, oh, fuck. And it just. The thing is, CNN had a picture of a door. Did you see that? For an hour. There was the door that J.D. vance was behind. And so it was just the door

[Scott Galloway]

where he came out and said, we've got nothing accomplished.

[Kara Swisher]

Thank you. Yeah, I know.

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah, yeah. No, sorry.

[Kara Swisher]

Thank you, sweetie.

[Scott Galloway]

That's my win, my fail. It's not even a fail. I have two wins. The election in Hungary is so huge and so wonderful on a lot of levels, but my win is Viktor Orban. If a fascist who ruled for 16 years can concede an election, so can we. So can we. And think about what we have done in this country. If you had a team, a basketball team. And a head coach. Coach. And they lost, 68 to 72. And then the head coach refused to shake the hand, told his team we won the game, told the media we won the game, refused to show up for the medal ceremony or whatever it was. Would you decide to make that guy the head of the league? If we can't have the peaceful transfer of power, none of this other shit matters. And Victor Orbis Orban, who I am not a fan of, who I am not a fan of. Understood. Understood. He said his.

[Kara Swisher]

For now, he's only 62, so. Okay.

[Scott Galloway]

But he said. Ormond said he called to congratulate Magyar. Is that his name?

[Kara Swisher]

Magyar?

[Scott Galloway]

And he wrote, Orban said, the responsibility and possibility of governing was not given to us. I mean, a simple line. A simple line. This guy showed more fidelity to democracy than not only our corrupt president, but so many of the people who want to be a judge are willing to do right now. So it's a strange win. But my win goes to Viktor Orban for conceding an election. I am so thrilled for the Hungarian people. It is an inspiration the way they have. And it also, quite frankly, it bodes really well for us because we are a lot more connected.

[Kara Swisher]

That's right.

[Scott Galloway]

Than people believe.

[Kara Swisher]

You have to. Let's see, jd, when you lose the presidency, you better act like that. Anyway, I have failed. I usually like when women say their piece, but I thought two women this week weren't so great. Melania Trump made a rare speech to talk about.

[Scott Galloway]

God, that was weird. What did you say?

[Kara Swisher]

It had so much. What the fuck? It was. What the hell? Why is she talking about this. There might. We thought there was a story. And then there. Just because she's mad about it, she doesn't. She's like, I was not a paid escort or sex trafficked. You know, and it's like, well, like, I think she wants to make it clear she isn't a prostitute. That's what. Or a.

[Scott Galloway]

Are we all prostitutes at some point?

[Kara Swisher]

I know. I was like, well, you still. You, like, okay, so you went through a marriage broker kind of thing. Like, she didn't do that. But, you know, I think she wants to. Doesn't want to. I don't know what she was doing. I thought, what in the actual fuck is happening here? And, you know, they say Trump didn't know, but there's such, like. I was like, what is happening? And why is Epstein back? Like, good, let's talk about Epstein. And then I think she, like, crapped on those survivors, the real survivors who really did suffer because, you know, just to get her little piece out there and what a selfish person she was. Well, she is. What am I talking about? And then this strange profile of Lauren Sanchez in the New York Times, which Katie Couric had the best reaction is, were you forced to do this assignment to the writer Amy Cusek? I didn't know why she was telling me how happy she is, which is great, but I don't know what it was there for. There was nothing to hang it on, I guess. The Met gala, I'm not sure. But it was so tone deaf. Like, I'm really happy. And in our $230 million house in Florida, we talk due gratitude to each other every morning. Just more of this sort of romance with Bezos is so icky. I just find it. I just didn't understand it.

[Scott Galloway]

Kara, do you remember that line from Broadcast News? It's one of the greatest lines in movie history.

[Kara Swisher]

Mm. Tell me.

[Scott Galloway]

I love that movie where William Hurt says to Albert Brooks, what happens when your real life exceeds your wildest dreams? And Albert Brooks turns and says, keep it to yourself.

[Kara Swisher]

Keep it to yourself.

[Scott Galloway]

And my dad, I've been thinking, you know, I love this statement, and I use it as one of the definitions of masculinity. Are you optimizing for attention or certain service? And Lauren Sanchez, from everything I've heard, is a really nice woman. People who know her say wonderful things about her.

[Kara Swisher]

Yep, they do.

[Scott Galloway]

You have an amazing life. Keep it to your fucking self. Talking about your amazing life in virtue signaling. It's like, I have a buddy who is so successful, such a good Friend, Such a good citizen, and he's a fucking disaster when it comes to his relationships. And I said to him, I said, don't you have any really good friends that can tell you what they think of what you're doing? Who saves you from yourself?

[Kara Swisher]

Nobody here. She's got the money.

[Scott Galloway]

And this is the same thing with Lauren. It's like, don't you have any friends to say to you, go, girl. Have an amazing life. Do good things with your money. Take care of your parents, Take care of your community. Give money away. You don't need articles in the New York Times talking about what a spiritual, wonderful person you are and how wonderful your relationship is. There's. There's no way it's just going to make you look like an asshole. That's my question, Kara. Don't these people have friends?

[Kara Swisher]

Especially as the ex wife of Jeff Bezos just gave $70 million to Meals On Wheels and never said a word about herself.

[Scott Galloway]

I mean, about the mugs they have or hunk or honk. She needs friends.

[Kara Swisher]

Well, she has friends. She has the wrong friends. Lauren, call us up. We'll help you. We'll bring you back down to earth. But I don't think she cares. I think she could do so much good, and instead she's. I just don't know.

[Scott Galloway]

It's something I struggle with. My dad told me just I. I started to get some success before he passed away. And the last thing he said to me that really stuck with me was he said, the key to happiness in America is to be rich and anonymous.

[Kara Swisher]

And he said, you said that to me a long time ago, Scott. I loved when you said that to me.

[Scott Galloway]

And he said to me, he said, he goes, I'm really happy that you've achieved your. The former. I'm worried about the. The latter.

[Kara Swisher]

Oh, smart things to do.

[Scott Galloway]

You don't appreciate the value of anonymity.

[Kara Swisher]

Well, too bad, too late. But if you ever do an interview about us cuddling and doing gratitude, I'll fucking kill you.

[Scott Galloway]

I gave her a mug.

[Kara Swisher]

I gave you a mug.

[Scott Galloway]

I gave her a mug that said, you look like Rachel Maddow's accountant. I'll give you a Rachel Maddow's mechanic. That's your fashion statement.

[Kara Swisher]

I'll see you next Tuesday. Mug.

[Scott Galloway]

Oh, my God. Aren't we adorable? Aren't we adorable?

[Kara Swisher]

I know we're adorable.

[Scott Galloway]

Aren't we adorable? Adorbs.

[Kara Swisher]

Adorbs. My win is another outspoken woman hacks is final season. I saw the first episode. So good, Jean. Smart Hannah Einbender, the whole frigging cast. It's about a woman who talks out loud and is so wonderful. I just love it, love it, love it. And I just, I recommend everybody watch this. Last season, the whole team there is spectacular. There's not. And they all share in the wonderfulness. And I have to say, it's very sweet. It's about a family. It's about. Anyway, Jean Smart is really a woman I'd like to have keep talking. And by the way, her speech in last season was so prescient about companies trying to quiet performers and comedians and stuff like that. So I thought that was amazing. So please watch it. It's worth it. It's on hbo, Max.

[Scott Galloway]

Anyway, one of my favorite lines, they're gonna name a street after you. It'll probably be a dead end with an abortion clinic on it.

[Kara Swisher]

Just beautiful writing. Anyway, those are the kind of things I think you should pay attention because it'll make you laugh out loud. We want to hear from you. Send us your questions about business, tech or whatever's on your mind. Go to nymag.com pivot to submit a question for the show or call 855-51-Pivot and elsewhere in the Karen Scott universe. This week on on I talked more about my CNN series, Karen Swisher Wants to Live Forever. On the topic of longevity, I talked to a panel of experts, including journalist Katie Couric. She talked about why people seem more inclined to trust dubious wellness claims than doctors. Obviously, Katie was really well known for being one of the first people to call attention to colon cancer. She had, her husband died of this and she had a colonoscopy. On camera. Speaking of power broadcast news, back then it was really important to bringing down cancer rates. Really amazing thing she did and continues to do. Let's listen to a clip. People want answers and honestly, they often don't like the answers that they get. They wanna believe my joints hurt. I wanna believe that collagen is gonna make me less achy when I get up in the morning. I wanna believe that I'm gonna be flexible with collagen, you know. And so I think that people, you know, are grasping for ways to feel better. And I think there is a lot of suffering out there. Really smart voice on all this. Okay, that's the show. Thanks for listening to Pivot and be sure to like and subscribe to our YouTube channel. We'll be back on Friday.

[Scott Galloway]

Today's show was produced by Lara Naiman, Zoe Marcus and Taylor Griffin and Kate Gallagher. Ernie Todd entered the episode. Rich Shipley edited the video. Thanks also to Drew Burrows, Emil Silverio and Dan Shalon. Yashad Koro is Vox Media's executive producer. Podcast. Make sure to follow Pivot on your favorite podcast platform. Thanks for listening to Pivot from New York Magazine and Vox Media. You can subscribe to the [e-mail] pod we'll be back later this week for another breakdown of all things tech and business. Congratulations to the good people of Hungary, who voted for Europe, who voted for Ukraine, who voted for progressive politics. And congratulations to viktor Orban, after 16 years of rule, conceded the.