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- [00:01]
Scott Galloway
Support for the show comes from coreweave. Everywhere you look, AI is expanding what we thought was possible. And at the center of it all is coreweave. Medical research and diagnosis, education, complex visual effects for movies, science and technology breakthroughs. CoreWeave powers AI pioneers around the world with purpose built tech building what's never been built before. CoreWeave is the essential cloud for AI Ready for Anything, Ready for AI to learn more about how CoreWeave powers the world's best AI, go to CoreWeave.com ReadyFor Anything.
- [00:35]
Kara Swisher
For a lot of Americans, credit card debt feels like a fact of life. I think it's just important for people
- [00:41]
David Pierce
to understand how credit can work for
- [00:44]
Kara Swisher
you or against you, why that little piece of plastic has so much power. That's this week on Explain It To Me. Find new episodes Sundays, wherever you get your podcasts.
- [01:03]
Scott Galloway
When the political winds change, will there be accountability for those who bent the knee for the Trump administration? If these corporations think that the Democrats,
- [01:12]
Kara Swisher
when they come back in power, are gonna play by the old rules and say, oh, never mind, we'll forgive you,
- [01:19]
Scott Galloway
I think they've got another thing coming. I'm Preet Bharara and this week Ambassador Susan Rice joins me to discuss leadership, decision making and the state of the rule of law in America. The episode is out now. Search and follow Stay tuned with Preet wherever you get your podcasts. It's like that little monkey who was rejected by his family and found a plushie. I saw that and granted, I think I was on Inedible and I'm like, that's my purpose in life, is to be other people's plushie.
- [01:51]
Kara Swisher
Hi everyone, this is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast network. I'm Kara Swisher.
- [01:56]
Scott Galloway
And I'm Scott Galloway.
- [01:58]
Kara Swisher
Scott, you're missing the blizzard. As we tape, over 40 million people in the US are under a blizzard warning, by the way, and snow dropping 3 inches an hour in some locations. It really is still going on here in New York and it's crazy. There's a lot of snow happening. We all thought the snow was over. Maybe I'll go take a walk in New York and walk in the Central park and contemplate my life.
- [02:21]
Scott Galloway
Do what I would do. Go to Chez Margaux and get fucked up and establish eye contact with a nice young Russian lady.
- [02:26]
Kara Swisher
I'm getting an award tonight in Brooklyn. Got to go out to Brooklyn.
- [02:29]
Scott Galloway
Of course you are.
- [02:30]
Kara Swisher
I am. I'm getting the Governor's award.
- [02:31]
Scott Galloway
I'm getting an award Tonight in Brooklyn. That is the most Kara Swisher thing ever said. I'm getting an award in Brooklyn?
- [02:39]
Kara Swisher
Yes. I have to go there. Yeah, it's the Ambies.
- [02:42]
Scott Galloway
What do you. Okay, all right, fine. I'll play along.
- [02:44]
Kara Swisher
I don't know. It's the new. It's the Oscars of podcast.
- [02:46]
Scott Galloway
What are you getting an award for?
- [02:48]
Kara Swisher
For being old from the Governor's Award.
- [02:50]
Scott Galloway
The Oscars of podcast. I thought that was the vibes. What are those?
- [02:53]
Kara Swisher
What is the. No, no, not those. No, that's the. Oh, the.
- [02:57]
Scott Galloway
The Signal Awards.
- [02:58]
Kara Swisher
No, I don't know. Whatever they. To make fetch happen with awards.
- [03:02]
Scott Galloway
Two white guys with a mic. That's called. That's a podcast.
- [03:04]
Kara Swisher
This is not the BAFTAs or the Oscars. This is the podcast version. And I'm getting the Great Contributions to Podcasting award.
- [03:12]
Scott Galloway
Really?
- [03:13]
Kara Swisher
I guess. I don't know, Scott. Anyway, here's something crazy going on. Mexican security forces killed the leader of the Jalisco New Generation cartel and eight other cartel members in a Mexican military operation aided by US Intelligence support. And then they went crazy. These. These cartels. And they're like. They're in Puerto Vallarta, like Captain Stub. How I know. Pornobaarda from. From Love Boat, and they're, like, bombing the whole place. And all these Americans have been either diverted from going there or cannot leave there. Not just Americans, but lots of people, and they're, like, attacking neighborhoods. And this footage is really something. All these burnt cars, and it's really something. I don't know what you think about it.
- [03:52]
Scott Galloway
The issue is, it's not. I mean, it's violence, but it feels like it's more structural governance in an economic issue that's been evolving for nearly two decades, and that is these cartels are so inextricably integrated into the economy and even the government.
- [04:07]
Kara Swisher
That's a really good point.
- [04:09]
Scott Galloway
And it's not a traditional drug war in the old sense. It's sort of fragmentation and power vacuums. Right after the breakup of more powerful consolidated cartels, dozens of regional groups now compete for territory and trafficking routes and increasingly diversified revenue streams. So things like fuel theft, extortion, human smuggling, I mean, all kinds of. Supposedly they've interrupted the avocado supply chain, and oftentimes the violence is about local market control because Mexico's a big economy rather than just narcotics exports.
- [04:47]
Kara Swisher
Yeah, no, I get that. It's just that this is the reaction, like, to just show what they can do to upset economics. Right. I guess that's what they're doing.
- [04:56]
Scott Galloway
I mean the thing that does so much damage to this is hands down my favorite place to travel in the world. And I'm very fortunate. I get to go to.
- [05:05]
Kara Swisher
A lot of you love Mexico.
- [05:06]
Scott Galloway
Every year I go with a group of guys to Tulum. I love Cabo, I think San Miguel de. I just think Mexico. I also think it's the best bargain in the world. It's six star service and food and culture and vistas for four star prices. Whereas in Europe you get a lot of five star service for six star prices. And the, you know, I absolutely love the food, the culture, the people. And what happens is Americans immediately are like, oh no, I'm not going to travel there. And the reality is most of this violence is confined to what I'll call Mexican on Mexican violence. But it makes you think, should I.
- [05:43]
Kara Swisher
These photos of tourists from, you know, they're all in their hotels near beaches and they're just showing enormous amounts of fires, I guess. There was one guy who was in his hotel room and this guy, these, these two cartel members, they're on motorcycles, set fire to like a version of a 711 there like just in front of him. And it was really, it's really interesting to experience it this way, like sort of online. Like, hey, I was down here having a margarita and oh yeah, the drug cartels just bombed a car in my neighborhood.
- [06:14]
Scott Galloway
But this does, this does sort of signal a shift because for the last, for in recent years, Mexico's federal strategy, and some people call it appeasement, has been more about containment over confrontation. This is confrontation. And also we don't, we don't want to have an honest conversation. The US Plays a role here.
- [06:30]
Kara Swisher
Huge.
- [06:31]
Scott Galloway
There's a dimension here and that is a lot of our firearms flow south. You know, what drives a lot of the profits here is, is U.S. drug demand. And fentanyl production and trafficking have reshaped the, the supply chain and the economics of the trade. Lower input costs, much higher potency, smaller shipping volumes. So the, the synthetic, the power or economic potency of synthetics have changed the incentive str. You don't need large cocoa fields or massive kind of drug smuggling convoys. You need kind of like chemical precursors in distribution networks and enforcement muscle. But let me be clear. I'm still going to Mexico. I love Mexico.
- [07:12]
Kara Swisher
Yeah. Anyway, it's a black eye for Claudia Sheinbaum, I have to say. Even if the US helped her and stuff like that.
- [07:17]
Scott Galloway
Well, is it a black eye or does she show some muscle here by
- [07:21]
Kara Swisher
doing something about it? I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. We're gonna keep watching it, and I hope people there are safe. How is Resistant Unsubscribe going? Some of you have been writing and asking for alternatives to big tech that they're unsubscribing from. We asked David Pierce, editor at large at the Verge and co host of the Vergecast, to give us some recommendations. Let's listen to what he had to say.
- [07:42]
David Pierce
If I was trying to get rid of big tech apps in my life, my top three or four recommendations would definitely start with Proton. Proton is this company started by a bunch of CERN scientists in Switzerland that is very privacy focused. And over the years they've actually built a series of apps that are basically as good as everything you get from Google. They have a drive, they have an email, they have calendar, they have all this stuff. The next one is probably Signal, which is the messaging app I think everyone should switch to. There are things that are good about WhatsApp, even though it's owned by Meta, but Signal is a organization run by the right kind of people who believe in the right kind of things. And then the third one is slightly more afield. But I would say anyone who wants to do smart home stuff in their life right now should use Home Assistant. You can use Alexa, you can use HomeKit, you can use Google. But Home Assistant is this very specific, hackable open system that you control much more completely than you control any of those other systems. Everything from the stuff on your doorbell that's looking out at the world and seeing people come up to your door to like the baby monitors inside of your house. Who runs that stuff matters?
- [08:53]
Kara Swisher
That was great. That was great. Those are all three terrific recommendations. So what's going on, Scott?
- [08:58]
Scott Galloway
Well, first off, it bears repeating. You have been the biggest supporter of this and I very much appreciate it. No problem. But as we wind down February, so the two objectives were what I call Signal and Incentives. Wanted to send a signal to the American public that they have this weapon hiding in plain sight and that their economic decisions can have an impact. I think we've hit that on all levels. We've gotten just a ton of media exposure, a ton of unsubscribes people. I do think there's a large percentage of the populace who now realizes that economic strength is strength. The second objective was incentives, and that is to reconfigure the incentives among big tech executives to think twice before they enable or facilitate. I'm not sure we've accomplished that, quite frankly. My friends have said it's a conversation on product management teams, but it's not a board level conversation yet. So the question is, as we wind down February, what do we do? I was contacted by the Dutch historian Rutger Bregman, who's been instrumental in this. Yeah, I'm a huge fan, by the way. He's only 37.
- [09:58]
Kara Swisher
He's a lovely guy.
- [09:59]
Scott Galloway
Yeah, and super smart. And he reached out and said, FYI,
- [10:02]
Kara Swisher
for people who don't know, he confronted the issue of billionaires at Davos and got a lot of attention.
- [10:07]
Scott Galloway
He called him a bunch of tax avoiders. He basically said, none of you want to talk about the real issue on the table, which is tax avoidance. He's unafraid. I love the guy. And anyways, I, I love authors and academics who are just sort of unafraid. And he contacted me and said, you've got the brand, the visibility and the momentum. We have this group of really talented young people and some traction in something called QUIT GPT. And his view is you need to consolidate and focus on one and try and bring them down. And so we're trying to figure out, we've decided we're going to continue with something in March, but we're trying to figure out what are the learnings, how do we be more impactful and how do we keep our momentum going. And I'm going to speak to you about it and some other people, but I've had a bunch of organizations, a bunch of congresspeople, elected representatives, all say, how do we continue this and how do we make it more effective? I did an analysis for us to get the number of visitors, unique visitors to our site, if we paid for it and we haven't paid a dime, would cost us somewhere between 5 and 9 million dollars. Yeah, it just shows the power of social media in terms of the platforms we've built and the content stream we have and how powerful podcasts are at driving. But I need to, in the next several days, figure out what we do in March. Is it focusing? Is it different media outlets? What is it that helps maintain this momentum? Is it consolidating? There are three or four similar movements around the world. Do we all consolidate? I was on a call with Recorded Ed and I was like, if the British, the Russians and the Americans can come together to defeat Germany, maybe we should figure out a way to all consolidate and come together. But the two points are distill down to a smaller number of targets, if you will. And also do what you said, structure some full time resources.
- [11:55]
Kara Swisher
Yeah, I think so. So that you can they just tell you what to do. Right. Essentially there's a lot of people who do that. One of the things that's, you know, someone who I'm really impressed with, Amanda Lippman, who runs Run for Something and it's, I had her on the podcast. She's incredibly, you know, strategic in terms of figuring out what people need to do, especially young people. It seems like this is something you need to get people who are actually a little more, you know, that really can focus in it energetically. I don't mean professionally like because there's a lot of professional organizers that don't really get stuff done. I think you've really caught lightning in a bottle here and you've got to keep doing it. Anyway, we were, we're still working on an event, Scott and I are. And so we're going to do that hopefully, and we'll see where goes from there. But let's move on to the stuff we have to cover today. Donald Trump is increasing his global terrorist to 15% from 10%, effective immediately, just days after the Supreme Court struck down most of his global tariffs. In a 6 to 3 decision, the court ruled that Trump exceeded his authority when he invoked the Emergency Powers Act. Trump called the decision ridiculous and anti American. He also insulted the justices personally quite a bit. That was, you know, it was worse than that. He's just being a giant fucking baby. His latest workaround uses a 1974 trade law that allows him to impose temporary, temporary terrorists for 150 days. He just posted on Truth Social a while ago about the court empowering him to use the terrorists in a more powerful and obnoxious way. He's just, you know, he's just, the court, let me be clear, was very clear about what he was doing was illegal essentially, and that the Congress and Gorsuch, Judge Gorsuch had a really eviscerating take on how Congress has sort of abrogated its responsibility. One of the other justices who was against it questions if the refunds could happen. Scott Besant sort of is trying to hedge that bet because they've got to give billions, many, many billions In I think 175 billion, something like that, in returns to US businesses, et cetera, the repercussions of this tariff position. The EU just hit pause on its US Trade deal until it gets more clarity on what Trump is doing. Thousands of companies around the world have already filed lawsuits challenging the terrorists even before the Supreme Court's rul a market in that estimates suggest the government could owe again more than 175 billion in refunds. The Supreme Court is leaving the refund question in lower courts. This is just Kavanaugh, who warned the process. It's going to be a mess, and it is. Let's listen to Secretary Bessant, what he said about these payoffs. He spoke to Fox News after the decision.
- [14:27]
Scott Galloway
This could take months, this could take years to litigate and to get to the payouts. And if there is a payout, it looks like it's just gonna be the ultimate corporate welfare.
- [14:39]
Kara Swisher
Oh, please, Scott. You took the money from them. Give it back. So talk about what the next move is for everybody. And the reaction that Trump had, which was, I honestly thought it was dangerous given the political heat right now, especially for the Supreme Court justices.
- [14:55]
Scott Galloway
It's weird. Everyone says he's a loser. There's no doubt it's a check on his authority and, you know, a rejection or a gag reflex. The primary purpose or power of Congress is the power of the purse. They're the ones that are supposed to. I mean, what you've had on a meta level and Barry Goldwater back in the 70s warned of this. There's been a slow abrogation of power to the executive branch. And a lot of the power was checked by norms, not by laws. And then someone showed up and said, fuck norms. I'm declaring wars and tariffs on my own. And one of the reasons you've seen such so many Republican congresspeople decide to retire is they're like, it's one thing to be in the minority and know that you've been defenestrated or neutered. It's another thing to be in the majority. And the speaker of the House is not the speaker of the House. He's the speaker of the White House. He's there just to run roughshod over us and pretend he represents Congress. He doesn't. He represents the president. And Republicans are like, wait, I thought we were in charge and had some say here. And we don't. And these tariffs would not have gone through. There are enough Republicans against the tariffs. You know, they're supposed to be the free marketers. So this is a victory for co equal branches of government and Congress controlling the purse. I think it's a huge victory for the Supreme Court, who was looking increasingly like Trump's, you know, trolls or not trolls. Trump's acolytes. Right. This does look like the independence of the court. Six to three is pretty resounding In a weird way, I thought this gave Trump an off ramp from what was clearly a failed economic policy, that I thought the economy and the stock market would actually probably go up. What was interesting is the reaction was muted, the market was slightly up, but now it's looking like he's going to use another provision, 122, which only lasts 150 days. But it's more inconsistency, and we've said this for a long time, more than the tariffs themselves. The most damaging thing to American trade policy is inconsistency. Nobody, no small business, knows how to plan their business against what will be tariffs or not tariffs. What I've been tracking, I was working with a hedge fund trying to find tariff claims. So if you're Mercedes Benz of the United States and you paid 20 million tariffs, you could at one point potentially buy those claims for 10 cents on the dollar. Now those have accelerated to 20 to 40 cents on the dollar. But the reason they're not trading at 60 or 80 cents on the dollar is the administration and complexity of potentially getting the money back. I think that's a red herring. I just don't, I think if, if they collected this money easily, I don't see why they can't reimburse it easily. It was all done digitally. So I don't, I don't buy that argument. But it's more indecision, it's more sclerotic decision making where people can't plan their business again. And what you see is just continued reconfiguration of the global supply chain around the US where we have massively benefited over. Someone brought up the notion, the very simple notion, actually. I think it was Justin Woofers that said, we have a trade deficit in the form of dollars, but we have a trade surplus in the form of stuff. So the example is I have a trade deficit with my barber, but my barber makes me look just fucking dreamy for very little money. So it's a good trade and US Trade policy. While we give more paper money to them, we get so much shit because of the strength of the dollar. I mean, stuff.
- [18:22]
Kara Swisher
Trump isn'. Imbecile. He's seen things like he learned economics in fourth grade and that's where he's stuck.
- [18:29]
Scott Galloway
If you export $100 with Nvidia chips to Germany in exchange for $100 of a Mercedes G wagon, they operate at 10 points operating margin and get seven times EBITDA. So they get $70. We operate. Nvidia operates at like 60 points operating margin and trades at 40, we get $2,400. I mean, if there's any asymmetry here of who has disproportionately benefited from global trade, it's been the U.S. we've been the big winner.
- [19:01]
Kara Swisher
This is stuck in Trump's brain forever because he's just not, honestly, he's not that smart, right? Just in a very basic way. He has this heads hat in this brain and then he has these facilitators. And by the way, Scott Besant knows better. Of course. He knows exactly what you know, and he's. I don't know what his game is. I mean, it's. He's talking about tarnishing a reputation that he had that was pretty decent. But one of the things that's problematic is that he's operating sort of economics for dummies or something like something, because he sticks in his brain that this is the way things go. And I think most people don't think about it in a complex way. I think the two things that I think about, again, were these, that the Supreme Court did him a favor here. Right? He got to try out his stupid ideas.
- [19:48]
Scott Galloway
He seems to be doubling down.
- [19:49]
Kara Swisher
He's doubling down in a really demented way. And the personal stuff that he was attacking them with and, you know, apparently
- [19:56]
Scott Galloway
families should be ashamed.
- [19:57]
Kara Swisher
Families and Barrett, Coney, Barrett and Gorsuch, I think, just really strange, just really, really strange. And they were, all they were saying was pointing out the obvious, which was, this is something Congress should do. It's something Congress is job is to do. And he just doesn't feel any restraints on himself. And that's what it is. And it's like old man combined with someone who's already an egomaniac and a narcissist combined with. More old man combined with. He gets to do what he wants this term. And the victimization that he has is so massive, you know, that he's always being victimized, someone's always fucking him. That's his whole worldview, that it's just we're being governed by a guy who just again, didn't. Is a victim, thinks he's a victim. Anyway, we'll see. Where does it go from here? Very briefly.
- [20:47]
Scott Galloway
Well, on Cauchy, they're saying it's a 76% chance. The court orders a tariff refund before 2027. So it does feel like he's running out of options. This section 122 has a maximum 150 days.
- [21:00]
Kara Swisher
Right.
- [21:01]
Scott Galloway
The Supreme Court does seem pretty resolute on this. Six, three. I don't think he's going to get a lot of support from even Republicans or Congress. Like, oh, wait, we have meaning again. You mean we get to actually have input. You actually have to bring this to. And if he thinks these tariffs have merit and they're good for the economy, then take it to Congress and work out a deal with them. That's what they're there for.
- [21:21]
Kara Swisher
That's right. But he doesn't want to do that because he can't get it passed. Because he can't get it passed. He wants to do it because he
- [21:26]
Scott Galloway
can't justify it intellectually or economically,
- [21:31]
David Pierce
the
- [21:31]
Scott Galloway
amount of money, the prosperity we have recognized from global trade. Now, granted, some of his instincts are correct. We had an asymmetric relationship. We were getting taken advantage of, in my view, in terms of our relationship with China. They, you know, they. They steal our IP and then sell us stuff at 60 cents on the dollar. We are not good at looking after people who are on the wrong end of global trade.
- [21:54]
Kara Swisher
But he's never doing that. He just tells them he's here for them, but then he doesn't actually do anything for them.
- [22:00]
Scott Galloway
And then if you want to look at the manufacturing sector, that was supposed to be rejuvenated, that has not happened. What has happened is that the tourist industry, which employs 12 million people, versus the manufacturing industry, which employs 11 million, is taking a real hit because Canadians are thinking, no, I'm not going to Disneyland or Las Vegas this year.
- [22:21]
Kara Swisher
Look at that. Did you see that story about that British woman who was put into ice for six weeks?
- [22:25]
Scott Galloway
Well, checking. Your people have to turn over their phone and they're being asked for their password. It's like, fuck that. I'll go to Capri or I'll go to Plano. Star, you know, do something else. I would think this is a. I would think every tourism board in the world is like, come here, we'll take your money. Yeah.
- [22:41]
Kara Swisher
Anyway. Okay, Scott, let's go on a quick break. When we come back, get ready for Trump's State of the Union. Support for this show comes from Deleteme. Whether you're a public figure or a private citizen, it's easier than ever for bad actors to get your personal information. I've tried Deleteme a lot, and I really have had a great time figuring out how much information data brokers have about me. It's scary and it's surprising, and I am always disturbed by how much they bring together and how sometimes wrong it is. So it's really important to get your data in line with things. The dashboard on Deleteme is very easy to use and you can tell them what you want deleted and what you want to keep an eye on. Delete Me makes it easy, quick and safe to remove your personal data online at a time when surveillance and data breaches are common enough to make everyone vulnerable. With Deleteme, you can protect your personal privacy or the privacy your business from doxing attacks before sensitive information can be exploited. The New York Times Wirecutter has named Deleteme their top pick for data removal services compared to others out there. Take control of your data and keep your private life private by signing up for Deleteme now at a special discount for our listeners. Get 20% off your DeleteMe plan when you go to JoinDeleteMe.com and use the promo code Pivot at checkout. The only way to get 20 off is to go to JoinDeleteMe.com pivot and enter the code pivot at checkout. That's JoinDeleteMe.com pivot code pivot.
- [24:11]
Scott Galloway
Support for the show comes from ShipStation. Growth is good, but it also brings new business challenges. For example, it can get tougher and tougher to fulfill orders. That is, unless you have shipstation by your side. Shipstation's intelligence driven platforms brings everything you need to get orders to customers in one place. That includes order management, rate shopping, inventory and returns, warehouse systems, and comprehensive analytics. And that means that instead of five to seven disconnected tools, you've got one. Shipstation says they can save customers 15 hours per week on fulfillment, and they also do the legwork of comparing rates across all major global carriers, finding you the best shipping options on every order. If you already have negotiated carrier rates, just bring them over so you can keep your discounts while adding ShipStation's automation and intelligent features to make things even smoother. One million businesses have trusted Shib station. You can join them and try ShipStation for free for 60 days with full access to all features. No credit card needed. Go to shipstation.com and use code pivot for 60 days for free. 60 days gives you plenty of time to see exactly how much time and money you're saving on every shipment. That's shipstation.com code pivot shipstation.com code pivot. Support for today's show comes from upwork. Scaling business takes the right expertise at the right time. Upwork helps growing teams quickly bring in specialized freelancers so you can move faster and take your business to the next level. Upwork is a one stop platform to find, hire and pay expert freelancers across web and software development, development, data and analytics, marketing, business operations and more. They help grow your business by giving you fast access to specialized talent across 125 plus categories so you can fill skill gaps, launch projects faster and scale support up or down without committing to full time headcount. You can browse profiles, review past work and get help scoping the roles so you can hire with confidence to get started quickly with business. Plus, you can access the top 1% of talent on Upwork with an AI powered shortlist listing. You'll get matched to the right freelancer in under six hours. No endless searching required. You can visit upwork.com right now to post your job for free and connect with top talent ready to help your business grow. That's upwrk.com upwork.com.
- [26:26]
Kara Swisher
Scott we're back. As we record, we're one day away from Trump's State of the Union speech. This will appear on the day of it. He's walking in with a speaker 60% disapproval rating, according to a new Washington Post ABC Ipsos poll. House Minority Leader Hakeem Jeffries is urging Democrats either attend in silent defiance or skip the speech. And a growing number of Democrats plan to attend a counter rally on the National Mall called the People's State of the Union. And Virginia Governor Abigail Spanberg is delivering the official Democratic response. That's a good choice. What do you think of this?
- [26:57]
Scott Galloway
I'm wondering if that's if and when we bomb Iran. I don't think he has a lot to say. I don't know. I think his speechwriters are scratching their head.
- [27:07]
Kara Swisher
Apparently Vance previewed it. Apparently he's going to talk about how manufacturing is coming back to the US like tomorrow. It's sort of like an Elon promise of autonomous.
- [27:16]
Scott Galloway
I think the screenshots here are going to be really hilarious. The audience reaction even. I think there's even going to be some Republicans who are kind of like, oh yeah, polite clap. Yeah, that's not, that's not working here. I think it's going to be very interesting. But I feel as if he's, you know, they're like, okay, how do we turn chicken shit into chicken salad here?
- [27:34]
Kara Swisher
Yeah, they're going to. Vance apparently gave an interview where he's talking about how we're going to suddenly have factories everywhere. Like it's all made up, literally. It feels like, you know, there was a really interesting meme online of Elon promising Autonomy for like 10 years. Like tomorrow Next week they're going to try to say everything's great with the economy. Which to me, when Biden did that was so unaffective. When people know that's not the case, I think there's these. These numbers are just astonishing that he keeps doubling down right on these. 60% disapproval is so high. I don't think you. I think it was this number right after the January 6 attack on the Capitol. I mean, I think that's where we are right now. And it'll be interesting. I think there's a high chance of crazy like that he does something nuts, just goes unchained. Unchained. Like he says something kooky or he loses his words. I wouldn't get up there if I were him, you know. Of course he's gonna have pancake makeup caked on his hand. By the way, whoever is doing that, I can tell you there are Hollywood people that can make that hand look better. I keep looking at it, I'm like, what, is his secretary doing it? Or you know, with a bunch of like cheap makeup. It's really weird. I feel like they could do a better job.
- [28:44]
Scott Galloway
I think it's the same person that came up with the tariff strategy.
- [28:46]
Kara Swisher
Right? Exactly. It's Peter Navarro slobbering, you know, Mac,
- [28:50]
Scott Galloway
hold your hand out.
- [28:51]
Kara Swisher
Is that even Mac?
- [28:52]
Scott Galloway
My niece works. My niece works at Sephora. This is how you do it.
- [28:56]
Kara Swisher
But seriously, I think it is a good chance of crazy. Like a high chance of crazy like something. I wouldn't do it if I were him. I'd find some dumb excuse not to do it. But he's now a heat seeking missile. Have you noticed how much he's been appearing? He keeps appearing everywhere. I don't know. I just feel like it's bad. We'll see what happens. But at the very least, if he doesn't say something crazy, poop his pants or. Or lose his words and it'll be fine, I guess. And doesn't just lie too much. I don't know. What should the Democrats do? Just show up and say nothing? Stare angrily.
- [29:33]
Scott Galloway
I think you just sit there and kind of look like, okay, are you fucking kidding me? This dude has lost his shit. I don't know what they should do. I don't think they acquit yourself like the elected leaders you are and just polite.
- [29:46]
Kara Swisher
Do they not not go? The Supreme Court has to go. All of them. Right? Don't you think?
- [29:50]
Scott Galloway
Yeah, as do our elected representatives. I just hate the idea. Whoever's president, half the House doesn't Show up. I. I know I don't. I think there's a certain decorum. It's the state of the Union. Show up. You don't have to smile, you don't have to applaud. But yeah, I think you show up and. And of course the Supreme Court should show up.
- [30:05]
Kara Swisher
Yeah. Maybe he'll tell us they're aliens. Maybe that's what he's going to do. I don't know. Something. He's going to have to have a jazz hands. He shouldn't use his hands too much.
- [30:12]
Scott Galloway
Let's just say I'm just praying that the teleprompter goes down and he goes full apeshit crazy. I hope that it's. I hope it's too gin and tonics for drunk uncle.
- [30:21]
Kara Swisher
No, but he doesn't drink, remember? He doesn't drink. Remember? His brother died of alcoholism. He's like anti drinking, but other than that.
- [30:28]
Scott Galloway
Kara, how is his brother doing?
- [30:30]
Kara Swisher
What? It's dead. All right?
- [30:34]
Scott Galloway
That's like. Do you ever run into a friend and you ask how their dad is and you didn't know? That's like, oh, my dad passed a year ago. Oh, but wait, other than that, how's he going? That's always my response.
- [30:42]
Kara Swisher
You never do that.
- [30:43]
Scott Galloway
Totally do that. What are you supposed to say? Never? What I find is people don't go, oh, I'm sorry. It's like, well, dude, he died a year ago. I'm fine. I think you make a joke out of it.
- [30:51]
Kara Swisher
Okay. All right, well, my mom's still living. Just remember that. So. All right. Lucky, lucky. She's good. I got her a Lazy Boy.
- [31:00]
Scott Galloway
That's the greatest innovation in Hollywood. It's not AI, it's Lazy Boys in theaters.
- [31:04]
Kara Swisher
Can I just say, it stands up now. It's so good. I took her to lunch, I lifted her right out of that chair. Suck her. Anyway, she loves her Lazy Boy. She loves her.
- [31:12]
Scott Galloway
Yeah.
- [31:13]
Kara Swisher
I'm just saying. I'm getting you one.
- [31:14]
Scott Galloway
I want one with wheels where I can just fly down the avenue.
- [31:18]
Kara Swisher
No, we're going to keep you in a room and that's going to be the end of it. So this is one I've been really excited to talk to you about. President Trump has called on Netflix to fire board member Susan Rice or, quote, pay the consequences after Rice said Democrats would push for corporate accountability. The DOJ is investigating Netflix proposed takeover of Warner Brothers and whether the deal may, quote, substantially lessen competition. And Paramount saying there's, quote, no statutory impediment to closing its deal for Warner Brothers after clearing a U.S. antitrust waiting period. This is not true. Regulators could still stop to sue it. Of course, there's the EU and other ways. This is not. This was a press release. Meanwhile, a group of Democratic senators is threatening to investigate Paramount, seeking information on the company's contacts with the Trump administration. As we tape, the seven day window for Warner Brothers to talk with Paramount is nearing an end at 11:59pm on Monday. So talk about this, this Trump thing. I mean, Susan Rice, like what I mean, maybe it'll have an implication. I don't know, it's just weird. You can't make like he tried to get Lisa Monaco from stopping working at Microsoft. Microsoft just ignored him essentially and she's still working there. Do you think it's important? What do you think here?
- [32:30]
Scott Galloway
Yeah, it's incredibly socialist. Capital markets function on the assumption that boards are accountable to shareholders, that regulatory authority is exercised through formal channels, and that political power is used as lever and private corporate disputes. And when those lines erode, you introduce political risk and into ordinary governance decisions. Capitalism is supposed to be regulated competition. And a guy who just has a history of bankrupting casinos and leaving a stream of unpaid subcontractors who got rich through a grift monetizing the White House is not the person to be telling companies it's totally anathema to the way America has built its economy. When political actors treat corporate boards as cultural battlegrounds, you shift from kind of rules based capitalism to personality driven capitalism. Investors can price regulation, but they struggle to price discretionary political targeting. So does this mean. And every time the administration changes, we invest in companies that have Democratic board members versus Republican board members? Practically. If presidents start leaning on boards, it invites Congress, regulators and state officials to do the same. And that's not market discipline, that's we
- [33:55]
Kara Swisher
won't give you this unless you get rid of this person. I mean, so far, again, it didn't work with Lisa Monaco at Microsoft. They just basically ignored and I think so.
- [34:06]
Scott Galloway
I was with some Netflix people. I went to the BAFTA awards last night.
- [34:09]
Kara Swisher
Oh, you did? Wait, you went to bafta? Hello. Where are the lead. What'd you wear?
- [34:15]
Scott Galloway
Oh, I didn't know BAFTA was a big deal. And I showed up just with a blazer. And then Ted Sarandos came up to me in a tux. I'm like, oh God, I fucked up.
- [34:22]
Kara Swisher
Yeah, okay, yeah, he was there.
- [34:24]
Scott Galloway
Yeah. But everyone, yeah, it was really, really fancy. I didn't. A friend of mine took me to dinner and said, do you Want to go to the BAFTA Awards? I was like, yeah. And anyways. But they will. I have no inside information here, but I know what smart class act Netflix management is. I'm sure if they haven't already, they'll put out a statement of support for Susan Rice. And this has become. So obviously, he's now supporting Paramount. But I talked to some Netflix. I think that at this point, so much testosterone has gotten involved in this. If you had asked either the Ellisons or Ted Sarando 6 months ago, are you willing, would you ever pay $82 billion for Warner? They'd say, no fucking way. It's not worth that in any world. But because Zaslav, to his credit, is not a great operator, but he's an outstanding investment banker. He has played them off each other and convinced both of them to overpay. If the Ellisons end up getting this and Netflix doesn't, my prediction is that Netflix Stock is up 10 to 20%. Because with $80 billion, Netflix can create just a shit ton of content. New verticals, new markets, new subscription plans. They'll be able to. At this point, I think it would almost be better for them if they lost and they just sue the shit out of Paramount and the government and basically create. Keep Hollywood in a state of flux because. And they're the winner. They'll keep on humming. I mean, that company's firing on all 12 cylinders with content production all over the world and just, you know, they're sort of the default. Right. You have to. Even in the resistant unsubscribe, people would say, I'm going down to one streaming media platform. And if you go down to one, who do you choose? Netflix.
- [36:09]
Kara Swisher
Absolutely.
- [36:10]
Scott Galloway
You choose Netflix. Right?
- [36:11]
Kara Swisher
It's the Netflix. Yeah.
- [36:13]
Scott Galloway
Everyone else's heated seats in car stereos. They're. They're the engine in the car itself. They're the chassis, so to speak.
- [36:19]
Kara Swisher
Or Disney. Right. Because it's.
- [36:21]
Scott Galloway
If you have young kids and you don't watch tv, maybe. Well, I guess you're right.
- [36:25]
Kara Swisher
I watch a lot of tv. You're wrong. I watch it at night.
- [36:27]
Scott Galloway
But, yeah, what you're going to see here, I think, is that even if the Ellisons get it, if Netflix could block the closing of the acquisition until the next administration, they might be able to overturn it. Because the whole point of capitalism is it's pretty basic in M and A. Whoever shows up with more money gets approved by shareholders, and then it has to survive regulatory review. The President has no role in any of that. That's not what he's there for, the whole point of government is we let our thoroughbreds run. We have antitrust, we have regulatory concerns, we have cfius security concerns. But you're supposed. Guess what? The American corporation is the second best performing organizations in history, only behind the US military. We create these out of control, full body contact violence, not a ton of regulation. Low regulation, rules, regulated competition produces unprecedented profits, prosperity and innovation. And all of a sudden you have a failed rich kid deciding who should own what.
- [37:38]
Kara Swisher
Yeah, exactly. So one of the things that is really struck me. Look, Netflix will be fine without this. I think they really want it now. You know what I mean? I think they are willing.
- [37:46]
Scott Galloway
Ego's involved now, Cara.
- [37:48]
Kara Swisher
Not just ego, but it actually could be good for them too.
- [37:50]
Scott Galloway
I don't agree. I think with that money they could build a bigger business online.
- [37:53]
Kara Swisher
Possibly. Possibly. Right, you're right. You're absolutely right. So they'll be fine, whatever. And in slowing everything down, they've created a slowdown for everybody, which is always good for them because they're faster. Right. They were lapping Hollywood for years. I sat there, I was like, why are you letting Netflix lap you all for years and years and years. So they have that ability to do that and they've always stayed fresh. They're a very fresh company. Even as old as they are, comparatively. Right. So they're still, they remain fresh and relevant and people are learning how to do what they do. But it's taken forever for Hollywood to do so. And one of the things that just gets me is one, the efforts of Paramount are one to run a shitty business and show that you cannot do content, whether it's over at CBS News or losing Taylor Sheridan.
- [38:37]
Scott Galloway
Oh, come on. Landmen. The world before the world before hr. I love Landman, okay?
- [38:43]
Kara Swisher
I know you do.
- [38:44]
Scott Galloway
A bunch of men drilling where they're not supposed to drill. People die and then they pay them off and everything's better.
- [38:48]
Kara Swisher
How could you. How could you ruin 60 Minutes? What a bunch of fucking idiots. I'm sorry. Like, how could you. How could you get Anderson Cooper to walk out? He's such a polite young man. Like, it's just like you're a bunch of dummies. I'm sorry. I really. I like some of you, but seriously, this is ridiculous. And it comes from the top. I'm sorry. And getting daddy to pay for it is really depressing on so many levels. Like, so sad. It's like sad rich kid. And. And they're going to. Let me just tell you, guess who's coming for you. You think the Democrats won't do anything. You are wrong. Paramount, they are coming at you if they win these elections. I don't. It's going to be a long time before you get your hands on cnn. It's going to be a long time before you get your hands on any of this. And then let's stop at European regulators like, and by the way, now, people in Hollywood don't all love Netflix. That is one. But now suddenly a lot of Hollywood people, like Mark Ruffalo, very liberal, is pushing back against James Cameron because he loves theaters. Whatever. There's now a growing like, hey, leave Netflix alone. Which is incredible because they're so bossy to most of Hollywood. So, Paramount, you have managed to show yourself in every foot possible, every toe in the way you've conducted this and just throw the money at it, as you should have done in the first place, and just take daddy's money and buy it. But you're still not gonna get it easily, especially because you're stressing all this closeness with the Trump administration. It's not gonna end well for you in three or four months.
- [40:20]
Scott Galloway
In the first Star Wars, Jedi Obi Wan Kenobi is on the Millennium Falcon and he feels a disturbance in the Force and he has to sit down and he goes, it's as if millions of people just screamed and then nothing. And he's referring to the Death Star, which builds a capability to destroy planets. And Darth Vader orders the destruction of Alderaan. You are going to see if the Ellisons get. If the Ellisons close. If Paramount closes on Warner Brothers, you are going to hear a scream from the creative community of which they're not even aware of.
- [40:56]
Kara Swisher
Agreed.
- [40:56]
Scott Galloway
You have a melting ice cube in Paramount, and then you'll get the scale. They'll overpay. At this point. They're both overpaying. Whoever gets it is overpaying. And then Father Ellison is going to go, okay, the only way we can get anything resembling a return is to reduce costs by 40%. The fact that SAG, AFTRA and the writers Guild are not hair on fire about AI you want to see AI come to an industry and destroy the labor? Oh, my God. Because Ted Sarando, whatever you think about Netflix, they like Hollywood. They still hire makeup artists. They still do things kind of. I don't want to call it, you know, the old way. But if you want to talk about a destruction in human capital, wait till you see what happens here of the Ellisons. I think with cbs, they're like, all right, we have to make some bold, take some risks because this thing is just going away slowly.
- [41:54]
Kara Swisher
Not in a rinky dink way. I get it. I have a list of people who have done that.
- [41:59]
Scott Galloway
I think it's hard, it's hard to defend the execution to date. They had to take some risks here.
- [42:03]
Kara Swisher
Definitely.
- [42:03]
Scott Galloway
I wouldn't have taken a lot of risks now.
- [42:06]
Kara Swisher
I would have waited until this deal was over and maybe hired a competent person. But that's a different story. Anyway, let's go on a quick break and we come back. Investors want protection from AI.
- [42:21]
Scott Galloway
When you look beyond the headlines at the trend lines, what is really going to matter?
- [42:25]
Kara Swisher
Even if you're not worried about AI per se, you certainly ought to be concerned.
- [42:30]
Scott Galloway
Do we have the cultural, you know, strength and resilience to get it right? Now imagine we had to write a new constitution today, put aside AI. Like, how good a job do you think we would do? I'm John Finer. And I'm Jake Sullivan and we're the hosts of the Long Game, a weekly national security podcast. This week we're joined by economist and author Tyler Cowen. We discuss China, the AI race, and aliens. The episode's out now. Search for and follow the Long Game wherever you get your podcasts. Support for the show comes from coreweave. AI isn't just a new tool, it encompasses so much more. It's spurring a revolution across all industries and reshaping itself to become a big, big part of our future together. Coreweave is at the center, powering some of the biggest names in AI as the essential cloud for AI, coreweave provides an AI platform that combines next generation infrastructure, intelligent tools and expert support. It's powering the world's most complex AI workloads faster and more efficiently. From medical research and diagnosis to education, from complex visual effects, from movies to breakthroughs in science and technology. If it's AI, coreweave is uniquely ready to power it with purpose, build tech, the big ideas, the wild visions and what ifs and why nots, Coreweave is working to build what's never been built before. Coreweave is the essential cloud for AI. Ready for Anything. Ready for AI to learn more about how Coreweave powers the world's best AI, go to coreweb.com Ready for Anything. In the wake of the release of millions of documents related to the Jeffrey Epstein case, the rich and famous are finally feeling some pain. But even with corporate resignations here, and with former Prince Andrew being arrested in the uk, the Question remains, how did Jeffrey Epstein remain a thriving member of the elite for decades when everyone seemed to know what he was up to?
- [44:24]
Kara Swisher
I don't think you could be friends with Jeffrey Epstein, whose MO was obviously having sex with young girls, even as Trump said, on the younger side, and
- [44:32]
Scott Galloway
not know his MO Untangling the Epstein conspiracy. That's this week on Today explained every weekday and now on Saturdays.
- [44:49]
Kara Swisher
Scott, we're back. This is really interesting because you've talked about the problems that companies, not AI are having. But Wall street is taking interest in a new category called halo companies. Heavy assets, low obsolescence business is seen as largely immune to disrupt from AI. Really interesting S&P 500 sectors for industrials, materials, utilities and consumer staples have marched ahead in the last month. Companies like McDonald's and ExxonMobil are taking a win as investors try to take cover from potential AI disruption. Now you said a lot of these companies have suffered because AI has taken most of the gains in the stock market. Talk about this. This was a story in the Wall Street Journal, but it's something we've discussed before. It was the other 400 companies, not the first, the top seven or whatever.
- [45:34]
Scott Galloway
There's been a rotation out of AI companies into what are traditionally thought of as defense stocks like Procter and Gamble or Caterpillar, but they have been run up. And so what you've had is you've had this weird phenomena where there's been a pretty serious multi trillion dollar destruction in the private and public market valuations of the companies most tightly associated with AI, whether it's Nvidia or Microsoft or they have all gotten hit pretty hard. What's also interesting though, and then there's been a rotation into the defensive guys that are considered AI immune. Goldman Sachs put together an AI immune index. The opportunity in all of this, and where I'm actually thinking of investing is that while AI stocks have come down, there's still a massive fear that they're going to destroy entire sectors and the sectors that are ground zero for this fear right now. Our traditional SaaS companies, Salesforce, ServiceNow, Adobe, the View is since this new innovation from Claude, that those businesses that someone will just automatically put in a prompt and all of a sudden overnight no longer need Salesforce for their CRM, for their salespeople and that overnight Salesforce is gonna go away. I mean, Salesforce And Adobe and ServiceNow, these companies are off somewhere between 40 and 70% these companies. And by the way, there's absolutely no evidence whatsoever noted last week.
- [47:02]
Kara Swisher
Yeah.
- [47:02]
Scott Galloway
So These companies are growing at double digits and trading at free cash flows of like multiples on free cash flow of 10 or 12. Meanwhile, some of these old economy companies that are growing at single digits are trading at much higher multiples. So I would argue that one of the biggest opportunities in the market right now is the traditional SaaS companies as a multiple on their free cash flow.
- [47:25]
Kara Swisher
This is beyond these halo companies. Beyond the McDonald's.
- [47:28]
Scott Galloway
No, I think the halo guys, quite frankly, are overpriced right now.
- [47:32]
Kara Swisher
Oh, interesting.
- [47:33]
Scott Galloway
They're low growth companies trading at exceptional PEs. Meanwhile, I mean, keep in mind, if you think so, at all my companies, we've had Salesforce. I don't care if some kid, if some kid came to me and said, okay, we can kind of replicate Salesforce with a thoughtful prompt into anthropic. I'd be like, okay, we're going to have to retrain everybody on a new ui. These companies get so they have client service, they have events, they have worked out millions of bugs over a couple years. I get invited to Dreamforce if I spend enough money. The thought that all of a sudden people are just going to strip out Adobe or Figma or ServiceNow is just. These companies are so deeply embedded. You can call it technical debt, you can call it switching costs, whatever it is. In addition, if AI can actually take the coding down to something meaningless, then what will happen I think is that these SaaS companies will reduce their cost by 10 or 20%, which gives you their actual coding and technical costs are only 10 or 20% of their revenue. The other 80% is marketing, branding, client service events. So that shows you where the value is. They'll do the same thing and then pass on those savings. So you might see some mild margin compression. But I think the flight into defensive stocks, I think that trade has been overdone and I think there's one of the biggest. I haven't been able to find value anywhere. I've been selling, not buying for the first time in a long time. I Look at these SaaS companies, there is absolutely no evidence anywhere that a large corporation is giving up Adobe or Salesforce and putting in new prompts into AI. So I think that threat has been massively over overdone. Also, I think the rotation into these more traditional low growth companies, quite frankly, I think those guys are really overvalued right now. These are low growth companies trading at tech growth multiples.
- [49:36]
Kara Swisher
Yeah, I would agree. I think you're absolutely right. I think that's a really interesting take on that it is interesting that people are looking beyond AI right? Like, where are the opportunities? And I think, I think your argument is excellent. So what are you buying?
- [49:48]
Scott Galloway
Oh, I'm going to put together probably a basket of Figma, Adobe, Salesforce, maybe ServiceNow. But I look at those companies and unless there's a collapse in their business model, do you know how hard it is to get rid of. I remember. You know, these companies are so deeply embedded. I remember we were paying $25,000 a year for my terminal for Bloomberg and we thought, okay, let's go to Thomson Reuters. It's cheaper. Bloomberg is so tightly integrated into your life. If you're managing a hedge fund, even messaging the way we messaged other people in the hedge fund business.
- [50:23]
Kara Swisher
Things do get replaced though, over time.
- [50:25]
Scott Galloway
Scott, I think what's going to happen here is margin compression.
- [50:28]
Kara Swisher
I think you used to buy it in a box, if you remember a lot of this stuff.
- [50:31]
Scott Galloway
But I think they'll cut costs. I mean, I still think, I mean, for example, Salesforce, I actually think it was really brilliant branding. They have built some of the tallest buildings in every one of their markets in the world. There's probably, if they needed to, quite a bit of costs they could cut and pass on to their consumers.
- [50:48]
Kara Swisher
There is. That's because Marc Benioff has penis building problems.
- [50:51]
Scott Galloway
These are smart people. What they might say is if they see a threat, they might say, oh, Salesforce is now 0.6x per seat versus x per seat. These are smart, well run management teams. And by the way, no evidence whatsoever that any of this is impacting any of those companies.
- [51:10]
Kara Swisher
Yes, that is the biggest, bigger point. All right, Scott's going, different than Halo. He's going, what are we going to call them? Not dead. S software as a service abandoned.
- [51:20]
Scott Galloway
It's like that little monkey who was rejected by his family and found a plushie. It's the plushie strategy.
- [51:28]
Kara Swisher
I knew you watched that.
- [51:29]
Scott Galloway
I can't stop watching that little monkey.
- [51:31]
Kara Swisher
I know.
- [51:32]
Scott Galloway
I can't stop watching that.
- [51:33]
Kara Swisher
Did you see the one his mom
- [51:35]
Scott Galloway
rejected him and they gave him a plushie.
- [51:37]
Kara Swisher
I know, but did you see the one where they. It was speaking of AI Use, where the monkey attacks all the other monkey. The monkey with the plushie attacks all the other monkeys.
- [51:45]
Scott Galloway
Oh, starts doing kung fu on them.
- [51:46]
Kara Swisher
Yeah, starts doing kung fu on them. Like, he's like, he's had enough. He's gonna punch anyway.
- [51:51]
Scott Galloway
I just saw, I saw that. And granted, I think I was on Inedible and I'm like, that's My purpose in life is to be other people's plushie.
- [51:58]
Kara Swisher
Plushie.
- [51:59]
Scott Galloway
That's my purpose.
- [52:00]
Kara Swisher
You are my plushie. Anyway, this could go somewhere weird really quickly, so I'm gonna move on. One more quick break. We'll be back for wins and fails. All right. Wins and fails. I shall go first, because I have declared myself first. So when the Olympics just ended, they were quite good. US Women, and women in general, dominated America's Female Olympians won six gold medals and 17 medals overall. American men won four gold medals and 12 medals over. It's not a competition, but they did really well. And in any case, one of the things I was really struck by was not an American, but someone who is American. Eileen Gu, who won the gold medal in the women's free ski halfpipe event for China. She's been meddling for China, just won a couple of silvers. She's been really plagued by stupid questions, largely from male reporters, but she got asked a question when asked by a woman, do you think about your words before you speak? It actually was a very complimentary question saying, you're so well spoken. How do you do it? And so let's listen to her answer, which I thought was so superb. She's gorgeous. She's a model, she's a skier, she's an athlete, et cetera. Let's. Let's listen. Do I think. I think overall, I'm just a pensive person. Like, I'm a very introspective. I'm an introspective young woman. Like, I spend a lot of time in my head, and it's not a bad place to be. I journal a lot. I break down all of my thought processes. I think I apply a very analytical language to my own thinking, and I kind of modify it because it's so interesting. You can control what you think. Like, you can control how you think, and therefore, you can control who you are. And especially as a young person, like, I'm 22, so with neuroplasticity on my side, I can literally become exactly who I want to be. How cool is that? Like, how empowering is that?
- [53:53]
Scott Galloway
Right?
- [53:54]
Kara Swisher
I think she was quite lively in a way that I really enjoyed listening to her, you know, push back against people. Mary, a lot of these athletes, whether they were some of the skaters, the women skaters, were astonishing. And they're. They're their own people. I really enjoyed this for that, for all these athletes, especially women showing off. They don't have to be adorable little dolls. They were just their own people. I really Liked that my fail is related. It's when Trump called the U.S. men's Hockey Team in the locker room after their victory, where Kash Patel was making a fucking idiot himself, chugging beers and acting like he was 21 when he's old and spending taxpayer money. But let's not get into that. That imbecile. But anyways, Trump then tried to said, hold my beer to Cash Patel, and he invited them to the State of the Union and the White House. But let's listen to how he said it.
- [54:45]
Scott Galloway
We'll do the White House the next day.
- [54:46]
Kara Swisher
We'll just have some fun.
- [54:47]
Scott Galloway
We have medals for you guys. And we have to. I must tell you, we're gonna have to bring the woman's team. You do know that. I do believe I probably would be impeached. Okay.
- [55:04]
Kara Swisher
It's so great to have a really old man make a stupid old man joke. And that is fine. He is what he is. And it was just gross to insult the women who had just won the gold medal. Instead, the guys laughed and I get it, I get it, I get it. You're in a locker room, you just won, you're all excited, and you have the president calling you, but you don't have to laugh at his jerky joke. And I think his time is over for talking about women, like, their battle axes or they're such a pain to be here. And, oh, the ladies. It's tiresome in the extreme. I'm not someone who doesn't like a good joke. I put up with Scots all the time, but this is just not funny. And it isn't funny to the women's team. Now, a day later, after Trump did invite the U.S. women's hockey team, it turns out they simply can't make it. They don't want to hang with you. A spokesman for the team said, we are sincerely grateful for the invitation extended to our gold medal winning U.S. women's hockey team and added that they would not be able to attend, quote, due to the timing and previously scheduled academic and professional commitments. I love that. And I'm gonna just relate very quickly. When my son Louie was on a men's soccer cross team, there was an audio of something where they. It really insulted the girls in the class really badly. Like, really like. It was a dumb, stupid, sexually charged song they played. I don't remember it exactly, but they got a video of it, of course, because everything's videotaped. And it was. It was gross what they were doing. They were insulting their classmates, like, in a really sexist way. And Louis wasn't singing the song. He was in the video. He wasn't singing the song. But I remember when I saw it, I was so disappointed in him because he didn't say anything. Right. He didn't like. And I know he couldn't. He was in the locker room. And so we had a great talk at the time. And I remember spending a lot of time talking to both my boys about their role in. And like you say, protecting women. Not just protecting, but don't laugh at stupid shit like that. Like you don't have to go along just to get along. And it was really. It reminded me of that moment when Louis said to me at the time, you know, I didn't do anything. And I said, you didn't do anything. That's exactly my problem with you at this moment. And I get it. I get what it's like being a boy. I get the pressures of it. But honestly, US Men's soccer hockey team, you know, just be better. Let's just say. Let's say be. That was what I would say to you is if I was your parent, I'd slap you back to last Sunday. Anyway, that's my go ahead. Congratulations, by the way. US Men's hockey team and the women's hockey team.
- [57:38]
Scott Galloway
I thought the highlight of the Winter Olympics was Megan Keller, who scored the overtime. I grew up going to hockey games. It was the only one of the few ways my father and I bonded. We used to go to LA Kings games and watch Marcel Dion and Whitey Whiting and Rogi Vachon. And so I know something about hockey. And I used to go to Maple Leafs games with my father. The overtime goal from Megyn Keller, hands down for me was the ultimate demonstration of athleticism, grace under pressure. And keep in mind, these women are really doing it for the love of the sport. Their league does not pay a lot.
- [58:18]
Kara Swisher
Can I point out Alyssa Liu and the three others? The three other women from the US Were all supportive of each other.
- [58:24]
Scott Galloway
They weren't admiring each other's level of camaraderie.
- [58:27]
Kara Swisher
Alys. Amazing.
- [58:28]
Scott Galloway
I do not fault the men for laughing. They're in a locker room.
- [58:31]
Kara Swisher
I know, I get it.
- [58:32]
Scott Galloway
And most of them are like 23 year olds from Wisconsin.
- [58:34]
Kara Swisher
I get it.
- [58:36]
Scott Galloway
Not that there's anything wrong. I don't fault them. I fault the president for not setting a good example for young men. You know, that's just not. And. But the women. Did you see the final of the women's hockey?
- [58:49]
Kara Swisher
Yeah, it was amazing.
- [58:50]
Scott Galloway
The goal she pulled off was so extra. I kept watching it over and I spent 20 minutes watching it 40 times.
- [58:58]
Kara Swisher
I know, it's amazing.
- [58:59]
Scott Galloway
Anyways, Maggie, you're right.
- [59:01]
Kara Swisher
They don't get to be star in heated rivalry, et cetera. It really is. They're an astonishing.
- [59:07]
Scott Galloway
Oh, my God. It's like the heated rivalry with women's hockey.
- [59:10]
Kara Swisher
That's already happening.
- [59:11]
Scott Galloway
You got one viewer.
- [59:12]
Kara Swisher
I'm sorry, that's already happening. But we'll go into it in great detail. Go ahead. Yours win and fail.
- [59:17]
Scott Galloway
Well, it's one thing. And that is, is okay. So we let our thoroughbreds, US Corporations run and we have structural, systemic laws that tell them, okay, you can't pour mercury into the river. And if an industry becomes so consolidated it starts extracting unfair rents from labor or consumers, the government moves in. Other than that, one of the reasons for our economic growth is we err on a lack of regulation or government intervention. When the president starts weighing in and saying the most ridiculous shit about a board member, he called her racist. Oh, yeah, Susan Rice, like famous racist. So that's not even my fail. Though we've expected that kind of weak and weird socialist, communist autocratic behavior that hurts our economy. What I can't stand is that Democrats do not lack all creativity around how we're going to strike back. And let me just give you one idea because I love the idea of economic activism. And that is. All right, a kind of beltway on ramp into greater wealth is the following. You serve in Congress or in the cabinet and you go on because you're an impressive person with strong connections and an understanding of the world. You go on to serve on corporate boards and make some money. I've had that. Susan Rice has made millions of dollars on the board of Netflix. And by the way, I think it's great she worked her ass off. I don't mind there should be a cooling off period going to work for lobbyists. But I have been on boards with former the New York Times. We had Bill Kennard, the former head of the fcc, went on to be the American ambassador to the eu. I was on a board with Rick Snyder, who went on to be the governor of Michigan. I think it's great that they serve on boards. They're talented, thoughtful people. They deserve to make money. I have no problem with it. With it. But if the President starts fucking with Democrats on boards, Leader Jeffries and Senator Schumer, why the fuck are you not fucking back? And this is the following. For example, Mike Pompeo, former head of the CIA and Secretary of State. He is on a board. And I did this in about 10 minutes of research. He is on a board called Veon, which is a single class share company. And when I used to do activism, I had to spend 150,000 to 250,000 to file 13D and nominate directors and get lawyers involved. I have now written up the filings for nominating governors at this single class share company. And I did it in about seven minutes using AI Buy. I'm going to buy one share in this company and I'm going to start targeting Republicans on boards and not renominating them and then maybe go after another board member and anyone in Congress who's a Republican who decides they too would like to make some money on boards. Well, why aren't Schumer and Jeffrey saying, we're going to be back in power, folks, and if you want to go serve on board as Susan Rice did, we're gonna start fucking with you now.
- [62:33]
Kara Swisher
Look, Scott, the thing is, what he's doing is totally wrong. So you should do the wrong thing in order to meet him like that is a hard decision.
- [62:40]
Scott Galloway
You fire a gun at me, I am pulling out my gun and I am shooting you in the fucking face.
- [62:46]
Kara Swisher
All right, I'm gonna.
- [62:47]
Scott Galloway
This is about incentives and this notion that Democrats. That we're higher and mightier and that we'll restore the con. Fuck them. That.
- [62:55]
Kara Swisher
Okay.
- [62:56]
Scott Galloway
That you want to deny the Constitution and engage in depraved criminal behavior against us. Well, fine, folks, if you think we're going to restore, just go back to being the nice guys who are genteel and restore the norms. No, that is the wrong incentives. There needs to be a loud and clear message to the Republicans who are grabbing this their ankles as America gets here. Be clear. You want an autocracy? Fine. We'll show you an autocracy when we're back in charge. Sorry. Sorry for the lecture.
- [63:29]
Kara Swisher
Okay. All right. I think they're not gonna be invited to the next Democratic getaway. There's other ways to fight back that are just as devastating to them that you don't have to do what they did. There's lots. Someone called me from one of these companies and it's like, oh, I don't think the Democrats are gonna hurt us. I said, oh, they're gonna hurt you. You just not the same way.
- [63:47]
Scott Galloway
They're not afraid. They think they're gonna go to strongly worded letters.
- [63:51]
Kara Swisher
No, they're not going to. To be action. I do. I just don't think we have to do it the way Trump is doing, which is essentially acting like Putin anyway, just for people who don't know Trump's favorite judge. Speaking of fails, Eileen Cannon just blocked the public release of special counsel Jack Smith's report on the classified documents case against Trump. Trying her best to get into the Supreme Court. Eileen, or Aileen, whatever your fucking name is, you suck. And you're going to be overturned on appeal anyway. We want to hear from you. Send us your questions about business, tech or whatever's on your mind. We don't want to hear from Judge Cannon at all anymore. Hopefully go to nymag. To submit a question for the show or call 85551 pivot. Elsewhere in the Kara and Scott universe, this week on on with Kara Swisher, I spoke with Chris Applehands and Maggie Kang, directors of the K Pop Demon Hunters. Maggie's also the creator. And Scott, you got a mention. Let's listen.
- [64:43]
Scott Galloway
How do we get Scott to watch it? Do we just tell him? Let's tell him everyone's hot. That'll work, right? Because everyone's hot. So watch it, by the way. Do it.
- [64:52]
Kara Swisher
I just got him to watch Heated Rivalry.
- [64:54]
Scott Galloway
Ooh.
- [64:55]
Kara Swisher
So I know it, but I finally got him. I am going to make when I'm with him at south by Southwest, I'm going to go to his room and we're going to watch it. He and I will have to cuddle with him. But that's what if it takes. That's what it takes. I'm going to do that. So I promise I will get him to watch it and I will give him an edible and I'll put him right in front of it and that's how it's going to go.
- [65:16]
Scott Galloway
Just so you know, Scott, what's the show?
- [65:18]
Kara Swisher
K Pop Demon Hunters. You have not watched it.
- [65:21]
Scott Galloway
I have not, but I don't have young kids. Isn't it for little kids?
- [65:24]
Kara Swisher
No, it's an adult movie. Just watch it. Watch it. You're gonna watch it with me. You and I are gonna watch it. Okay. We're gonna.
- [65:29]
Scott Galloway
Yeah, that's definitely got involved some sort of THC edibles.
- [65:33]
Kara Swisher
They're sexy cartoons. You'll love it.
- [65:35]
Scott Galloway
Aren't those folks billionaires now? Isn't that the most watched thing ever on Netflix?
- [65:39]
Kara Swisher
It is, but I think they got didn't get again like Heated Rivalry. They got it. They got it for a song, but I think they did fine. I mean, they're amazing. It's an amazing podcast. I love K Pop Demon Hunters. It's not for kids, actually. It's a. It's a very complex show. Okay, that's the show. Thanks for listening to Vivint. Be sure to like and subscribe to our YouTube channel. We'll be back on Friday.
- [65:58]
Scott Galloway
Today's show was produced by Lara Naiman, Zoe Marcus and Taylor Griffin. Ernie or Tott engineered this episode. Rich Shibley edited the video. Thanks also to Drew Rosemary and Dan Shalonda Shakaraz, Vox Media's Executive Producer Podcast. Make sure to follow Pivot on your favorite podcast platform. Thanks for listening to Pivot from New York Magazine and Vox Media. You can subscribe to the magazine@nymag.com pod we'll be back later next week for a breakdown of all things tech and business care. Have a great rest of the week.
- [66:30]
Kara Swisher
Support for this show comes from Mint Mobile. We all have that friend who insists on doing things the hard way. Like your friend who hates using GPS cuz he says he knows the shortcut. Or your other friend who will give herself blisters carrying every single grocery bag in once instead of making multiple trips. For all you know, you're the guy who's overpaying for wireless for no reason. No more, says Mint Mobile. Stop paying way too much for wireless just because that's how it's always been. Instead, you can get the same coverage and same speed without the inflated price tag. The premium wireless you expect unlimited talk, text and data, but at a fraction of what others charge. Ready to stop paying more than you have to? New customers can make the switch today for a limited time. Get unlimited premium wireless for just $15 a month. Switch now@mintmobile.com pivot that's mintmobile.com pivot upfront payment of $45 for three months, $90 for six months, or $180 for a 12 month plan required or a $15 a month equivalent taxes and fees. Extra initial plan term only over 50 gigabytes may slow when the network is busy. Capable device required availability, speed and coverage varies. Additional terms apply. See mintmobile.com
- [67:46]
Scott Galloway
Today's show is brought to you by Vanguard. As we step into the new year, it's the perfect time for all the financial advisors out there to think about how to set your clients up for success. One way to do this is to level up your fixed income strategy. But bonds are tricky. The market is huge, rates shift and risks hide in plain sight. That's why having a partner with scale and expertise matters. Vanguard brings both. Institutional quality isn't a tagline. It's a commitment to your clients. It means top grade products across the board. Plus, the lineup includes over 80 bond funds. So if you're looking to give your clients consistent results year in and year out, go see the record for yourself@vanguard.com audio. That's vanguard.com audio. All investing is subject to risk. Vanguard Marketing Corporation Distributor.