Trump Takes Office, TikTok’s Brief Shutdown, and Crypto Cronyism

Summary

Pivot Podcast Summary: "Trump Takes Office, TikTok’s Brief Shutdown, and Crypto Cronyism"

Podcast Information:

• Title: Pivot
• Host/Author: New York Magazine
• Description: Every Tuesday and Friday, tech journalist Kara Swisher and NYU Professor Scott Galloway offer sharp, unfiltered insights into the biggest stories in tech, business, and politics. They make bold predictions, pick winners and losers, and engage in lively debate.
• Episode: Trump Takes Office, TikTok’s Brief Shutdown, and Crypto Cronyism
• Release Date: January 22, 2025

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1. Trump's Inauguration and the "Golden Age" Declaration

The episode opens with Kara Swisher and Scott Galloway dissecting President Donald Trump's recent inauguration, where Trump declared the beginning of a "golden age of America."

Key Points:

• Inauguration Atmosphere: Both hosts critique the superficiality and performative aspects of the inauguration, highlighting the presence of affluent tech leaders and their conspicuous display.

  [05:00] Kara Swisher: "The whole panoply was so ridiculous. It was like, look at the rich people. I collected one after the next."

• Tech Elite's Role: Trump's positioning of tech leaders like Jeff Bezos, Mark Zuckerberg, and Tim Cook in prominent roles was seen as a display of wealth and influence rather than genuine political strategy.

  [06:46] Scott Galloway: "They were so played by this guy. It was such a... kudos, Trump."

• Fashion and Presentation: The hosts amusingly discuss the fashion choices at the inauguration, with particular attention to Melania Trump's attire juxtaposed against other attendees.

  [04:31] Kara Swisher: "Melania Trump looked like a nun next to Lauren."

Notable Quotes:

• Trump's Statements:

  [08:07] Donald Trump: "We will pursue our manifest destiny into the stars. Launching American astronauts to plant the Stars and Stripes on the planet Mars."

• Scott Galloway's Commentary:

  [10:25] Scott Galloway: "And the naming stuff is sort of... it's just kind of ridiculous."

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2. Executive Orders and Policy Announcements

Trump's second term has been marked by a flurry of executive orders, many of which Swisher and Galloway find lacking in substantive impact.

Key Points:

• Delays in TikTok Ban: Trump signed an executive order delaying the enforcement of the TikTok ban for 75 days, proposing a 50-50 joint venture with TikTok's current owners. Both hosts express skepticism over the feasibility and legality of this move.

  [25:17] Scott Galloway: "It's happened all the time. And there's a word that describes it perfectly. It's socialism, communism."

• Pardons and Controversies: Trump issued sweeping pardons, including those of January 6th rioters, which contradict prior assurances by figures like JD Vance that violent criminals would not be released.

  [17:21] Scott Galloway: "JD Vance said they wouldn't let off people who had violent things, but that's exactly what he did."

• Other Executive Actions: Attempts to revoke birthright citizenship and declare various national emergencies were criticized as either unnecessary or poorly communicated.

  [17:56] Scott Galloway: "Declaring a national energy emergency is just dumb."

Notable Quotes:

• Trump on TikTok:

  [25:48] Donald Trump: "The US should be entitled to get half of TikTok... If the President does sign, it's worth maybe a trillion dollars."

• Scott Galloway on Executive Actions:

  [20:12] Scott Galloway: "There is one real quick. There's one I actually thought was good, or the singular one I thought was good was reclassifying federal employees, making them easier to fire."

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3. TikTok's Brief Shutdown and Delayed Ban

The discussion delves into the complexities surrounding TikTok's status in the U.S., including its temporary shutdown and the implications of Trump's attempted joint venture.

Key Points:

• Legal Challenges: Trump's executive order faced immediate legal challenges, with major platforms like Apple and Google refraining from allowing TikTok downloads, citing legal constraints.

  [26:24] Kara Swisher: "...you cannot download TikTok and other ByteDance apps on the Apple Store or the Google Store."

• Public and Political Reaction: There was significant public backlash against TikTok's brief shutdown, and the subsequent delay of the ban was met with confusion and criticism regarding Trump's approach.

  [27:50] Scott Galloway: "The American word and American laws no longer have veracity."

Notable Quotes:

• Kara Swisher on Legal Limitations:

  [26:24] Kara Swisher: "These people have good lawyers. They understand that Trump is all blather. He can't do that."

• Scott Galloway on Government Overreach:

  [29:12] Scott Galloway: "We blink. We say, oh, wait, we're going to extend it."

---

4. Crypto Cronyism and Presidential Coin Initiatives

A significant portion of the episode is dedicated to discussing Trump's foray into cryptocurrency, raising concerns about potential corruption and the melding of politics with digital currencies.

Key Points:

• Trump's Meme Coins: Trump and Melania have released their own crypto meme coins, dubbed "shitcoins," which have amassed a combined value of $8.4 billion by early Tuesday morning post-release.

  [38:18] Kara Swisher: "President Trump and Melania have released their own individual crypto meme coins, they're called, just so you know, meme coin."

• Potential for Corruption: Both hosts express alarm at the possibility of these coins being used for bribery and illicit activities, highlighting the opaque nature of cryptocurrency transactions.

  [40:22] Scott Galloway: "What if he just calls both of them and says it's ebay for geopolitics."

• Regulatory Concerns: The integration of crypto into political maneuvers is seen as a dangerous evolution, undermining established financial regulations and fostering an environment ripe for kleptocracy.

  [42:49] Scott Galloway: "They have the meme coin. His coin is literally the democratization of kleptocracy."

Notable Quotes:

• Scott Galloway on Crypto and Corruption:

  [40:22] Scott Galloway: "It's called Smellonia, Justin, and nobody has to know. Nobody."

• Kara Swisher on Bribery Risks:

  [40:29] Kara Swisher: "I'll tell you, a lot of crypto people are like, horrified because they kind of, they were like, great, we're finally getting our legs under us around some really important, you know, legislation and regulation."

---

5. Biden’s Pardon Actions and Political Ramifications

The hosts briefly touch upon President Biden's final actions in office, focusing on his controversial pardons.

Key Points:

• Pardoning Family Members and Politicians: Biden pardoned his family members and individuals involved in the January 6th Committee, sparking debate about the implications for political accountability.

  [34:58] Scott Galloway: "It's a race to the bottom."

• Precedent Concerns: The pardons are seen as setting a dangerous precedent, potentially undermining the integrity of the presidency and the judicial system.

Notable Quotes:

• Kara Swisher on Biden's Pardons:

  [35:32] Kara Swisher: "That's exactly how I feel. I was like, oh, God, did he really have to do this?"

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6. Miscellaneous Insights and Commentary

Towards the end of the episode, Swisher and Galloway share personal anecdotes and discuss secondary topics, including technology products and personal losses.

Key Points:

• Personal Loss: Kara mourns the passing of Cecile Richards, highlighting her contributions to public service and Planned Parenthood.

  [47:39] Kara Swisher: "Yesterday, someone who I really had a high regard for, Cecile Richards, who I recently interviewed in June, died of brain cancer."

• Tech Innovations: Discussion about Yonder, a company producing pouches to lock away phones, emphasizing the need for critical thinking in education.

  [54:35] Kara Swisher: "Jonathan Haight loves Yonder, for example."

Notable Quotes:

• Kara Swisher on Yonder:

  [54:35] Kara Swisher: "It's a physical manifestation of the problem we have with these things."

• Scott Galloway on Education:

  [54:40] Scott Galloway: "What's really important for young people in education... is developing critical thinking faculties."

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7. Wins and Fails Segment

In the concluding section, both hosts reflect on recent positive and negative developments.

Kara Swisher's Wins and Fails:

• Win: Honoring Cecile Richards for her impactful career and dedication to public service.

• Fail: Criticizing Marc Andreessen's interview for adopting a victim mentality and displaying inaccuracies.

Scott Galloway's Wins and Fails:

• Win: Acknowledges Trump's political comeback as a masterful campaign strategy despite personal disagreements.

  [50:46] Scott Galloway: "It's arguably the most iconic, remarkable political comeback in history."

• Fail: Denounces America's inconsistent policies and diminishing global influence, portraying the nation as a platform for wealth accumulation rather than civil rights advancement.

  [50:46] Scott Galloway: "We are no longer a nation. We're a platform for how do you make the jump to light speed?"

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8. Final Remarks and Future Discussions

The episode wraps up with a teaser for future topics, including discussions on artificial intelligence and the evolving tech landscape.

Key Points:

• Upcoming Topics: The hosts hint at exploring AI's impact and further political developments in upcoming episodes.

  [44:49] Scott Galloway: "This week on Prof. G Markets..."

• Listener Engagement: Encouragement for listeners to submit questions and engage with the podcast's online platforms.

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Conclusion

In this episode of Pivot, Kara Swisher and Scott Galloway provide a scathing analysis of President Trump's second term inauguration, his controversial executive orders, the tumultuous situation surrounding TikTok's potential shutdown, and the alarming introduction of crypto meme coins by Trump and Melania. Their discussion highlights deep concerns about political corruption, the undermining of legal frameworks, and the shifting priorities of American leadership towards wealth and influence over substantive governance and civil rights. Through sharp commentary and insightful critiques, Swisher and Galloway invite listeners to reflect on the current state of American politics and its implications for the future.

Transcript

[Kara Swisher]

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[Scott Galloway]

I think Zuck is hoping it's the golden shower age. I think that guy's going dirty.

[Kara Swisher]

Hi everyone, this is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Kara Swisher.

[Scott Galloway]

And I'm Scott Calloway.

[Kara Swisher]

Dark greetings from the USA and Hail Satan. Scott. The second reign of Trump has begun with a plethora of things. We'll talk about some of these ridiculous executive orders which have no meat to the bone as they say. But let's get right to the inauguration. I know you were drowning your sorrows in 80s music and firefighter videos. Did you watch the inauguration?

[Scott Galloway]

No. So one of the things I would recommend any dad does with his son because it's a lesson or his 15 year old son. It's sort of a rite of passage in the Galloway household about culture, politics, homosexuality, culture, sex is to watch the entire eight seasons of Game of Thrones. And I believe in season five, Stannis Baratheon decides to burn his daughter Shireen at the stake. It is such a disturbing scene that running through it the second time, I decided for my own mental health, I'm just not going to watch that entire episode. And for me, the inauguration was the burning of Shireen Baratheon at the stake. I thought, I just don't need to watch this. Although I will say, really, my one takeaway, and stay with me here, is the most important person on the planet right now or the person with the most potential to do real good for the world is Lauren Sanchez.

[Kara Swisher]

Oh, all right.

[Scott Galloway]

I mean, let's be honest. The Zuck is hornier than three bald cat.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah. I went back and looked at that video. Cause I thought it might have been unfair. It was not unfair. He was catching a look.

[Scott Galloway]

If she really wanted to do the world a solid, she would seduce Mark Zuckerberg, the Zuck. He's down for it.

[Kara Swisher]

Oh, wow. I didn't think he'd go there, but go ahead.

[Scott Galloway]

And then Priscilla Chan gets half the voting chairs, and boom. Mental wellness and trust in institutions skyrockets.

[Kara Swisher]

I don't know. She was right there with him. She was right there with Mark at every event.

[Scott Galloway]

No, no, but she was in the. She was in the overflow room because she doesn't have.

[Kara Swisher]

No, no, she was there. She was there. She was standing next to.

[Scott Galloway]

She's in the rotunda.

[Kara Swisher]

She was in the rotunda. She was next to him. You didn't notice her because she's wearing pearls and a very conservative outfit, but she was right next to him.

[Scott Galloway]

You're right. I didn't notice her. I did not notice her.

[Kara Swisher]

You didn't, Because Lauren was like, yeah. Bustier man.

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah. Here we are. Hello. Come meet the girls.

[Kara Swisher]

We hate to talk about clothes, but. Oh, my God. Melania Trump looked like a nun next to Lauren.

[Scott Galloway]

And she looked like she was headed to the Capitol to force people to give tribute of the Hunger Games. She looked so. And I love the air kiss. They clearly are very fond of each other.

[Kara Swisher]

Oh, that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The hat, that was a strategic.

[Scott Galloway]

But Lauren Sanchez is the leader we need right now.

[Kara Swisher]

That was a strategic hat. All I looked at were ladies. I spent the whole time looking at the ladies there. All the different ladies.

[Scott Galloway]

I think the fashion was off the hook. The pictures I've seen.

[Kara Swisher]

Well, some of it. Yeah. They definitely dress many of them.

[Scott Galloway]

I thought they look great. I thought that people look great.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah. Well, some of them do. So I don't like that look. It's very shiny.

[Scott Galloway]

And all those tech leaders and those beautiful knee pads they all had.

[Kara Swisher]

I know they. You know, I'm surprised they. They weren't exhausted by the weekends. And some of them had, like a. Like, really were trying not to smile. Like, Tim Cook smiled occasionally, but was trying to have a stern look. Sundar Pichai didn't know what he was doing there. He's like, oh, Jesus. He was next to Elon. It was. The whole thing. The whole panoply was so ridiculous. And then Trump. My favorite part was Trump putting them up there right in the front. Now, I know I wanted it inside. Cause it looked better. It looked better inside. It was like actually a beautiful tableau kind of thing in a repulsive way. But it was beautiful. So if he was on the dais outside, you wouldn't have seen them all like that. And they would have been all bundled up. But instead, it's like, look at the rich people. I collected one after the next, and the lady and the lady and stuff. So it was really. And he put them right there right in the. In the. Right next to him, right over his shoulder. So you couldn't avoid them. And moved out. Governors moved out.

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah. They were in the overflow room.

[Kara Swisher]

Yes. No people that were at his rallies. No people that he cared. It was all rich people money. And then he even stuck Miriam Adelson in the back, like, which was kind of interesting. And Dana White. But he wanted to show I have a trillion dollars of people right here, and they're at my behest and I own them. And it was such a. They were so played by this guy. It was. I kind of. Kudos, Trump. I've never been able to nag them like that. I've never been able. But he did. He had them in their spot, I thought was interesting.

[Scott Galloway]

The only point of light that brought a smile to my face was there's a rumor that this guy named JD Vance is vice president.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, I heard.

[Scott Galloway]

And he did show up. Even Trump looked like he was going to fall asleep when they were swearing Vance in. But there's an image of Vice President Vance's daughter wearing all these band aids on her fingers. Yeah, it's really adorable. Do you remember Band Aids for kids?

[Kara Swisher]

They were bluey band aids. Actually, I clocked that.

[Scott Galloway]

That's a flex. That's a mom flex.

[Kara Swisher]

I mean, they ignored him completely. And interestingly, we'll get to the people getting out of jail. But Vance said they Wouldn't let out violent criminals. And they have. Well, he doesn't know what's going on. I mean, Musk is the one, and we'll get to Musk in a second. But President Trump declared the beginning of a, quote, golden age of America, even though we're kind of in the golden age of America. After taking the oath of office on money, calling his inauguration Liberation Day, I.

[Scott Galloway]

Think Zuck is hoping it's the golden shower age. I think that guy's going dirty.

[Kara Swisher]

That guy's going dirty, all right. He said he was saved by God to make America great again, referencing last summer's assassination attempt.

[Scott Galloway]

But God decided to kill that fireman. I'm sorry, go ahead.

[Kara Swisher]

You're right. It's all such bullshit. He made a series of announcements about his inaugural address, including one that made Hillary Clinton visibly laugh. She was there. I love that Hillary just said, you know, she's like. I know a lot of people are like, they shouldn't have gone. But I'm like, I'm down with her being right there. I'm down with Mike Pence there. Like, you tried. You tried, dude, and you didn't succeed. So let's listen to Trump.

[Donald Trump]

A short time from now, we are going to be changing the name of the Gulf of Mexico to the Gulf of America, and we will restore the name of a great president, William McKinley, to Mount McKinley, where it should be and where it belongs.

[Kara Swisher]

It's so ridiculous. It's so fucking ridiculous. So laughable and stupid. And I ran into, of all people in the CNN green room, Elizabeth Warren. And I thought she'd be all, you know, had her have her dander up, and she's like, that was so frigging laughable. Like, what in the world? Like, so dumb. He also said that we're gonna expand. He says, this Manifest Destiny thing, but not just on this planet, but let's listen to that.

[Donald Trump]

The United States will once again consider itself a growing nation, one that increases our wealth, expands our territory, builds our cities, raises our expectations, and carries our flag into new and beautiful horizons. And we will pursue our manifest destiny into the stars. Launching American astronauts to plant the Stars and Stripes on the planet Mars.

[Kara Swisher]

Okay, not exactly jfk, but this is what Musk has been after the whole time. The penny kind of dropped. And I went back and listened to a couple interviews I had done with him many years ago in 2016-18. His need to get to Mars seems to have been his goal here in a lot of ways. It was not money necessarily with this guy, but it is this whole Mars thing. What did you think of these Gulf of America and Mars situation?

[Scott Galloway]

Well, first off, the notion that America will again be the most prosperous, most admired, most powerful nation in the world. Well, good news, boss. It already is. It's all of those things.

[Kara Swisher]

It is.

[Scott Galloway]

That's right. And the naming stuff is sort of, I mean it's just, it's just kind of ridiculous. The Gulf of cheaper eggs, it's just, it's just sort of, it's just sort of dumb. Right. And the thing that really struck out to me and I would imagine so first off, this guy's full Putin. Did you notice we're going to expand new horizons for our flag. So what? We're invading Canada. I don't. Where are we going?

[Kara Swisher]

And by the way, Mr. Anti War. Mr. Anti War wants to take on other countries.

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah. We want out of bad wars, but we're becoming imperialists. And I'm down with Canada becoming the 51st state because that means Democrats win everything.

[Kara Swisher]

That's correct.

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah. So I thought that was really unusual. But I get the sense that he really has decided that Russia is the role model both in terms of kleptocracy, in expansionary vision. On the whole, I thought the stuff I've seen, I think Republicans do optics better than we do. I thought.

[Kara Swisher]

Oh absolutely.

[Scott Galloway]

I thought the aesthetics, the, the fashion that get famous rich people up front and their hot wives and if they're hotter, give them a better seat. I think they just understand that shit better than, better than Democrats.

[Kara Swisher]

So though I have to say a lot of people who are at the parties felt it was a lot of like cheap tricks. There was a. I got a lot of people had to go, you know, they just had to go a lot.

[Scott Galloway]

I think it was made for tv.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, exactly. That's what I mean. Like people who were there was like. It was joyless and cheap tricks, which is. And these weren't. These were Republicans. They were like this is gross and not cool. It wasn't cool. Someone said to a friend of mine, what was interesting was the visuals. 100 it was all for visuals. I did find his speech petty and small minded as he is still, he's in a perpetual campaign. This guy was never running for anything again. Is in a. He just can't get out of the campaign mode and get into the governing mode ever, you know. Now Elon Musk, of course is getting to go to Mars and we hope he goes first. We're very excited for his travels there, never to come back because you can't come back, by the way. Just so you know. He told me that, but he. He gave a speech at. At the Capital One arena where they did the. They usually have this inaugural parade that goes by the White House. They canceled that. And again for spectacle's sake. Leaving aside Billy Ray Cyrus at one of the things, it was quite a spectacle. So let's hear Elon's speech. You know, there are elections that.

[Scott Galloway]

Elections, they come and go. Some elections are, you know, important, some are not. But this one, this one, this one really mattered. And I just want to say thank you for making it happen. Thank you.

[Kara Swisher]

You know, at the noise at the end there, that's Elon thumping his chest and doing what appeared to be a fascist Nazi style salute. Some people are calling it a Roman salute, but a Roman salute was a Nazi salute. Some people saying he was doing. His heart goes out to you. That's not how you do it. It was weird. Some people are blaming it on him having Asperger's, you know, I'm sure, you know, in the Sound of Music, Rolf was just showing his heart went out to the von Trapp family when he did that symbol, that signal, but it was stupid. I don't know what to say. It's like, oh, we're going to be on the incoming of a flood of this kind of bullshit. Given he's in the public eye so much, he should be very careful about his signals that he does. I think a lot of people are letting him off because of the flood of other things that happened. I don't know if you had any thoughts.

[Scott Galloway]

I'm like you. I'm not a huge fan of Elon Musk, but I actually think he did a decent job. I thought he looked good. I thought he seem enthusiastic. He captured the audience. I think the hand gesture was unfortunate, but I would give him the benefit of the doubt. I don't, I don't think.

[Kara Swisher]

Except the Nazis were getting let out of jail. That's the only. Like, I don't give him the benefit of doubt like I assume you want to.

[Scott Galloway]

You really, you. You're connecting the two, that he's.

[Kara Swisher]

I don't know what he's doing. I just think he had. If you're in a position of that much power and that much influence and you're in the public eye, you should try not to do things that could be construed that way.

[Scott Galloway]

I just think that I, I agree with you, but I, I don't think it's fair to conflate what, what he supporting the Third Reich. I don't. I think that's a bridge too far. I think that's unfair to him, which.

[Kara Swisher]

Is, I think, what he might have wanted to happen, honestly. You know, he loves to troll people in some way to get people see. He's expecting us all to go, oh, how dare he? I think, as usual, it was sloppy and obnoxious is what it was. At the very least, I think he knew exactly what he was doing and to attribute it. You know, it's interesting when everyone's like, he has, you know, autistic or on the spectrum. A lot of people on the spectrum are like, I've never done a Nazi type salute kind of things.

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah, but I mean, okay, again, I agree.

[Kara Swisher]

I'm not going crazy.

[Scott Galloway]

I think he got caught up in the moment and made like to the moon. I just.

[Kara Swisher]

He did it twice. Let's just be clear. He did it twice. And if you watch it, it's weird. It's as weird as can be. I'm not. Look, there's nothing to be done with this guy. He's gonna continue to try to troll us and try to do all kinds of things that sort of like tickle liberals. This is his thing. This is what he's gonna do till the end of his life. And he likes to do it. He likes to make memes. I think he absolutely knew he was doing. I don't think he cares. I don't necessarily think he's, you know, I don't know what he is. I don't know why he did it, but I thought it was badly done at the moment. Definitely. I think you have to be careful about signals and things like that. But I agree. I'm not gonna. I'm moving on, like, whatever. Elon. It was weird. Weird. In addition, as I said, they all had prime seats. Jeff Bezos, Mark Zuckerberg, Tim Cook, Sundar Pichai. Better seats than Cabinet nominees who were behind them, I believe. What's incredible is the other notable attendees, too. Joe Rogan, Rupert Murdoch was there. I didn't see him there. I don't know where they put him. LVMH CEO Bernard Arnault TikTok CEO show too, really full of business people more than anybody else. And even Miriam Adelson, a big donor of his, was shoved, even though a business person shoved in the back, which was interesting. I don't know. It was quite something and it was definitely made for tv. Trump quickly got to work on Monday evening, issuing sweeping pardons to over 1500 of the January 6th rioters he was thought to have not. JD Vance said he wasn't gonna let off people who had violent things, but that's exactly what he did. He let out very people who had beaten up cops. Very clearly people had gotten 20 years to life. People who were obviously there to cause mayhem. But he let them off too. One woman who was just inside and got was a nonviolent protester, wouldn't take the thing. She said, I committed a crime. I thought that was pretty honorable of her. But he let off some very dangerous people. I know a lot of people that worked on those cases and they are terrified now that these people are out and emboldened. They essentially said Trump now has his own private militia at his behest. I think that was pretty upsetting. I don't know what you thought about that one, to me, was the most seriously disturbing of all the many executive orders.

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah, I don't know. There's a few trying to revoke birthright citizenship, trying to override the 14th Amendment. That feels, you know, some of it I can understand declaring a national emergency at the border. Declaring a national energy emergency is just dumb. Gas on an inflation adjusted basis is cheaper than it was 50 years ago. We are the largest oil producer in the world. Biden issued a ton of drilling permits. So that's nothing but just a false narrative. And it goes back to the notion we were talking about America will be the strongest, most respected. We're there. Unfortunately, Biden was unable to communicate that effectively.

[Kara Swisher]

Correct.

[Scott Galloway]

The. Some of the stuff that, you know, these, this expansionary, visionary stuff seemed very strange to me. Felt like we're colonialists again.

[Kara Swisher]

What do you think of this strategy of flooding the Zone with shit? Now, I know all presidents do this. They put out executive orders. These are just one outlandish idea after the next. Most of them have no force of law. Most of them are just press releases, as they said, on better letterhead. But it is this flooding the Zone with shit to get Democrats, you know, completely flummoxed. How dare he? How dare he. How dare he. Oh, how dare he do that.

[Scott Galloway]

They should just not respond. Most of this, I, I think a lot of it was throwing red meat at sort of populist, symbolic. I do think it was a baller move to have a ton of executive actions as he was on the disk. It kind of visually represents leadership. You know, some of this stuff immediately said, I promise these things I'm making do on these promises day one, even if they don't hold or even if they.

[Kara Swisher]

I tried I tried.

[Scott Galloway]

I think he's being one of the more generous things I think you could say about Trump's tenure the first time around was that he proved to be more of a pragmatist than an ideologue. And I do think he could have had an executive action around tariffs right away, but he didn't do that. He's obviously using it as a negotiating tactic, which again, is a pragmatist. Some of this is just, you know, some of the. Okay, the people who got out of prison. I'm not comfortable with it. It's awful. I'm almost like, just give it to them so we can stop fucking talking about it. And having museum exhibits where Marjorie Taylor Greene goes into like a zoo and holds the hands and prays.

[Kara Swisher]

I get the move along idea. I get it. It's just some of these people are dangerous criminals. That's the, you know, he talks about.

[Scott Galloway]

That's a fair point.

[Kara Swisher]

He talks about dangerous crim. He just let out some day. There is a point to moving along. Washington let off the people who did the Whiskey Rebellion. He did it right. People who had. That happens over and over again. You just say that was wrong. Let's move on. In the case of. He could have picked out a few and even JD Vance said so that were dangerous and beat up cops, the.

[Scott Galloway]

Violent criminals, the proud boys, the Oath.

[Kara Swisher]

Keepers that once it beat up cops.

[Scott Galloway]

Said guilty to sedition.

[Kara Swisher]

Jail. You go, yeah.

[Scott Galloway]

The stuff around, you know, there's only two genders. There's male and there's female. I almost seen that as just unimportant but mean. Yeah, it's like, it's just. Okay, you're just thumbing your. You're just waving the middle finger at a group of people. Fine. Have at it. Be. Be who you are. I don't think that's going to have much, much effect. These. I found this was mostly, you know, kind of like most of these things were sort of where's the beef? Or what actual impact on the ground is this gonna have?

[Kara Swisher]

I agree. I thought it showed weakness, actually. I was like, there's too many of them. There's too many ones. And all of them are kind of empty. It was sort of performative. I thought he should have been much more strategic and stronger. I thought they were all. I think they all showed, you know, how Mark is like. Mark Zuckerberg is like, I'm grilling meat, I'm shooting buffaloes. I'm finding that's what it was like. I was like, you're not A man. Cause you have to performatively man at us.

[Scott Galloway]

There is one real quick. There's one I actually thought was good, or the singular one I thought was good was reclassifying federal employees, making them easier to fire. I don't see any reason why federal employees shouldn't be subject to the same standards and anxiety that the private sector is.

[Kara Swisher]

Okay, but he's using it to put loyalists in. But yes, yes, I see your point.

[Scott Galloway]

And return to work mandate. It's kind of a quiet firing. But just in terms of actual data, this notion, this trope that the right likes to circulate that the government state, or what you would call it, the social state. What's the term they use?

[Kara Swisher]

Deep state.

[Scott Galloway]

Not the deep state. The government state or the welfare state, whatever it is, that the government's too big government. The percentage of employees represented by government employees has toggled between 14 and 17% for the last 15 years. It's at 14.2% right now. And the majority of those employees are state and local government. So actually, employment amongst government employees is at a bit of a low right now. So the notion that it's just our deficit and our spending has exploded because the far right and the far left come together to agree on reckless spending and deficits and interest in entitlements. But the notion somehow that the employment base has ballooned, it just isn't accurate.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, yeah, I know. I just. It's just their way to attack people and try to scare them. That's why I don't like it. It's not done to make things better. It's done to terrify, which is stupid. All right, let's go on a quick break. When we come back, we discuss what is exactly going on with TIKT after Trump's latent move and talk about the meme coin and other things.

[Scott Galloway]

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[Kara Swisher]

Scott we're back. President Donald Trump signed an executive order on Monday to delay enforcing the TikTok bind for 75 days, though it's unclear if that order will hold water legally. Most this follows TikTok briefly shutting itself down in the US for about 14 hours over the weekend ahead of the ban going into effect, which was just a performative piece of bullshit on behalf of the TikTok executives. As he signed the order, Trump attempted to explain the new plan where the US would run TikTok as a 5050 joint venture with its current owners. It's inexplicable, but let's listen.

[Donald Trump]

The US should be entitled to get half of TikTok, and congratulations, TikTok has a good partner and that would be worth, you know, it could be $500 billion or something. It's crazy. The numbers are crazy, but it's worthless if I don't. If the president doesn't sign, then it's Worthless. If the President does sign, it's worth maybe a trillion dollars. So I think like a joint venture, I think we would have a joint venture with, with the people from TikTok. We'll see what happens. I mean, that's one of many ideas I've had.

[Kara Swisher]

You know, I don't mind ideas here, but this is EO is just pointless. It just is. He doesn't have very many options. Cause there's line, by the way, people like Tom Cotton and others are like, you're not going around this law, Apple, and guess what? Right now you cannot download TikTok and other ByteDance apps on the Apple Store or the Google Store. These people have good lawyers. They understand that Trump is all blather. He can't do that. Now he gave some assurance to, I guess Akamai and Amazon and Oracle, but they are liable, very liable right now for billions and billions of dollars if they don't comply with the law. So anything Trump can really do is pass a new law. That could happen, which is not gonna happen. He could try to get some deal done with the Chinese. There's no reason the Chinese need to do this. I don't care what he threatens them with. And he doesn't have many options. He just doesn't as he doesn't have a lot of options except for following the law. He doesn't have to follow the law. You can order the Justice Department not to follow the law, but as you can see, as I said, Scott, they'll pick the Supreme Court and the Congress over Donald Trump in this situation. And so you can't download TikTok right now, but talk about this 5050 joint venture. I don't even understand. The American public owns it. I don't know, maybe give every American a share in TikTok. That would be great, whatever.

[Scott Galloway]

So this isn't unusual, the government owning a stake in a, in a. What was a private company. It's happened all the time. And there's a word that describes it perfectly. It's socialism, communism. Socialism is the government owns the means of production. Whether it's the UK government deciding it's a good idea to invest in an innovative car company called DeLorean. Whether it's Obama, who fell under a lot of criticism for making low interest loans to Solandra. This is. And Tesla, by the way, this is pure socialism. This is the government picking winners and losers. And the notion that the government kind of one of the basics tenants or pillars of American capitalism that has proven to be right is the government is not good at picking winners and losers, that when we have full body contact, violence in terms of competition with an operating system of rules that produces unicorns and prosperity, and hopefully you tax them at a good rate and we can reinvest in our Navy and seniors, et cetera. But the notion that the President could decide which companies were going to be JVs with and which ones were not, in addition, this goes to a much larger point here, and that is, are we a serious people? We had a law passed by 79 senators, 350 congresspeople, one of the most bipartisan, unanimous laws of our elected representatives in recent history.

[Kara Swisher]

They can't agree on lunch, and they agreed on this. But go ahead.

[Scott Galloway]

Signed into law. We gave them six months to divest. And then when it comes, you know what we do? We blink. We say, oh, wait, we're going to extend it. And by the way, on a dime's notice, TikTok, which legally has to listen to the CCP, was able to inspire, rally and motivate tens of millions of people to talk about the TikTok ban, voice their opposition. And I'm gonna go out on a limb here and assume that the good folks at TikTok decided to tweak the algorithm and elevate all of that content such that 170 million Americans were all of a sudden inundated with a certain viewpoint that then resulted in political pressure, that resulted in presidential action. What happened on Saturday and Sunday is exactly the reason the signing is to be banned. What is the next issue that the CCP, TikTok, can decide to inspire, rally and motivate tens of millions of Americans to exert pressure on our elected representatives. And the notion that somehow China. Now, we gave them six months. Here's a law, our elect of representatives, we passed it and you know what they said? Hold my fucking beer. You are not a serious people. And we now think that they're going.

[Kara Swisher]

To come to the table, they're expressing interest in working with Trump. This thing's gonna be done by. What they're gonna do is the. I call it the Elon faint. They're gonna get it into the hands of someone they like, who can. They can manipulate or. Or that there's. It's gonna be fake. They're still gonna be there and it's still gonna be. If you know the two people I trust on this whole thing, one is Tom fucking Cotton. I think he's speaking some truth about the dangers of China and manipulation of the United States, which. Who did a fantastic thing on, I think it was blue sky where she's like, look, I didn't see any substantive, any kind of substantive manipulation here. I'd happy to do this if they would show it to us, right? Both of them are like, this is all. We look like fucking idiots. Both of them said the same thing. Like you either put up or shut up. You either follow the law. If you're gonna pass this law, pass another one. Like that's what they can do. And Trump, they'll do something behind the scenes, but it will result in much less security, much less privacy. When they should have gone back and done a broader law about all these companies, all of them and have a thing in there saying foreign adversaries can't own this much of a big media property. That's all they had to do. And they wouldn't do that because they get all their bank from those. Let's switch to photo of all those rich people, tech people on the dais. This is all fakes. Now I. Let me just say one person wrote a piece. Kevin Roose wrote a piece. What if no one misses TikTok? So he was like, there isn't that much anger as you think. The only people I feel for is the creators who are making money on this platform. And I do love entrepreneurs doing that. They can go somewhere else, you know, they'll go to YouTube or wherever they can go to do things. And I'm sorry about that.

[Scott Galloway]

The economics are really interesting because I have a 14 year old son. The average 14 year old American boy spends 17 hours a week on TikTok. So if you take out sleep, basically without TikTok, you're getting an entire day back for a 14 year old boy. Now unfortunately he's not going to use that to study or play the piano or hang out with his dad. He's likely. The calculation is about 10 or 15% goes to Snap, 20% to YouTube and 70% to Meta platform. So there's $23 billion kind of up in advertising revenue for grabs here. About 15 or 13 of it would go to Facebook. 10 times revenue is 130 billion. You're looking at essentially Mark Zuckerberg is about to get $20 billion wealthier personally with a banning of TikTok. But I think all of this goes to a different issue and that is one, if a Chinese owned or CCP influenced company can exert massive political pressure, I don't need to see evidence of whether or not it's a security threat.

[Kara Swisher]

I agree. That's where I part with.

[Scott Galloway]

That's like Okay, I think she was.

[Kara Swisher]

Making a good point, is that they voted too quickly and didn't do a broader one. That's what was really, that was her biggest beef, is that it just was jammed through. Nobody got to really think about it, and nobody did a broader one. And I agree with her on that.

[Scott Galloway]

The American word and American laws no longer have veracity. It's like, okay, we can buy off their politicians, we can invest, make people wealthier. It's now a kleptocracy. And when they say something, do they mean it? I don't know.

[Kara Swisher]

Well, they do mean it because Apple and Google are not following this thing. That's where I look at these lawyers are like, no fucking way we're going to expose ourselves to this. That's, that's, to me, the fact that you can't download it says everything to me. Trump has no power here in this thing and he will do some jazz hands, deal with his pals, but they've got to get Congress to and the Supreme Court to approve it. And I think in this case, the two other branches of government are prevailing. In this case. Let's go to some very, very quick headlines. I do want to talk about that meme point. But first, President Biden's last hours. He pardoned his family members, Dr. Fauci, members of Congress who served on the January 6th Committee. General Mark Milley. I didn't mind the last parts of those. The family members kind of really wasn't a great thing. I thought it set a terrible precedent. In a statement, Biden did say the pardons should not be mistaken as an admission of guilt, but that's exactly what it'll be mistaken as. I mean, any quick thoughts on that?

[Scott Galloway]

It's a race to the bottom. And that is when you're worried your family members or someone who you may not agree with their policies but did their level best as head of the National Institute of Health or the cdc. It could come under political prosecution or just by virtue of somebody doing their job. It's a race to the bottom. We've become that nation now, and you're just going to see all sorts of, I don't know, abuse of the powers of the presidency. Because I don't. But I don't blame him at all.

[Kara Swisher]

That's exactly how I feel. I was like, oh, God, did he really have to do this? This is bad. You know, being the. So being the standup guy hasn't worked for him. So I guess he thought, well, fuck it. And he did it right before Right. John Stewart was joking about it. Did he? Auto pardon? Because he was sitting in the room when it was announced, when it was done.

[Scott Galloway]

No one wants to disarm unilaterally.

[Kara Swisher]

Well, speaking of disarming, the Department of Government Efficiency's first cut ended up being Vivek Ramaswamy.

[Scott Galloway]

You're fired.

[Kara Swisher]

Ramaswamy was reportedly parting ways with Doge to launch a campaign for governor of Ohio, which he's not gonna win.

[Scott Galloway]

He's not running for two years. He got fired by Elon Musk.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, exactly. No, totally. The news came just hours after Ramaswamy posted a photo with Elon on X. The caption, a new dawn. There's tons of reporting that they didn't like this guy, essentially, and Elon didn't like him, and actually, a lot of people didn't. In the meantime, moments after swearing in, district court filings alleging Doge doesn't comply with Federal Advisory Committee Act. I would agree with it. They're using signal. They're using signal. They should do this. If it's so transparent and such a good thing, why don't they do it in the full light of day? What do you think of Doge now? Scott, I know you want to cut government waste, and there's been a lot of these commissions over the years, but this seems like a ridiculous circus at this point. I mean, I don't know.

[Scott Galloway]

Doge is one of the lesser offensive things. I don't want to pre hate it. I think it's important on a regular basis, they call them different names. Every president has had his own rule on efficiency or better government. It needs to happen on a regular basis because government spending is like a. I don't know, a barnacle on a boat. They're just hard to get, hard to scrub off. But they've already eliminated waste by 50% on this commission. I think it's hilarious. Soap opera, the idea that this guy is trying to spin the narrative that he's leaving to run for governor. The word is Musk.

[Kara Swisher]

And then the governor of Ohio gave it to another guy. He wanted to be appointed for the Vance.

[Scott Galloway]

Well, that was for Senate. Now he's saying he's gonna run for governor.

[Kara Swisher]

I know, but he wanted that seat, apparently.

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah, but supposedly the word is Musk. And his team are like, this guy is all hat and no cattle. What's the term? The Brian Williams term?

[Kara Swisher]

Yes. All hat, no cattle.

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah. You know that he was just couldn't find a mic he didn't like, which, you know, you can imagine Musk and him fighting. Yeah, that's like Ryan O'Neill and Farrah Fawcett, you know, fighting for a camera. This guy. That was a good 80s reference. Anyways, I can't imagine the two of them. Musk is wealthier, more powerful. Said, I don't like this guy. He's out this notion that he's doing it to run for governor in 24 months. He would have loved to stay in this high profile position.

[Kara Swisher]

Yep.

[Scott Galloway]

That would have been the best thing he could have done in terms of name recognition. So this is not his idea.

[Kara Swisher]

Man down. First man down. First irritating man down.

[Scott Galloway]

That's right. The first firing. Actually this is really is. This is the first firing of the Trump administration. Zvek Ramaswamy.

[Kara Swisher]

Oh, my God, he's so irritating. I couldn't happen to a nicer guy. Anyway, I don't really. It's sort of like as you were saying when Bannon and Musk were fighting. I'm like, I'm rooting for the bullets. Anyway, this is the most important story. I think Scott and I were both totally offended by this and I think it is actually a serious problem of corruption. Trump and Melania have released their own individual crypto meme coins, they're called, just so you know, meme coin. These kind of coins are called shitcoins. There's a fart coin, in case you're interested and many others like it. As of Tuesday morning, the two coins were worth $8.4 billion combined. President Trump's reported planning an executive order to make digital assets a national priority, while he promises to release 1 billion of his own coin in the next three years. This is China, just. They don't have to stay at the Trump Hotel anymore. They can just bring the receipts for buying his shitty. His shitcoin. Essentially. This is really bad.

[Scott Galloway]

Staying at the Trump Hotel or playing golf there, where he saw the ledger of golf officials buying stock in Donald Trump Media. That was all checkers compared to this chess. Because with Donald Trump Media, he has to file with the SEC a public document saying I'm selling shares. The price would crash. Now, the following conversation I would speculate, will or already has happened. And that is President Trump. Congratulations on your enormous victory. It's your good buddy Vlad. And guess what we're thinking of doing. The treasury here in Russia is thinking of investing $600 billion for a variety of reasons, in cryptocurrencies, specifically the Trump coin. And my economists, wouldn't you know, it, have calculated that based on the small float of a half a billion dollars. When we pulse in 600 billion rubles or $10 billion, that's going to take of this thing easily to 50 or $60 billion. And should you decide to sell 20% of your stake overnight, what do you know, and I just bring this up, you'll become one of the five wealthiest men in America and in UN and you don't have to say and, and nobody will know. And in unrelated news, President Trump, we would like you to seize arms shipments to Ukraine. I mean, this is just so, this.

[Kara Swisher]

Is bribery writ large.

[Scott Galloway]

They have created. It's kind of a bond.

[Kara Swisher]

This is what they thought bitcoin would be used for. Bribery, corruption, pornography.

[Scott Galloway]

It's a great point.

[Kara Swisher]

I'll tell you, A lot of crypto people are like, horrified because they kind of, they were like, great, we're finally getting our legs under us around some really important, you know, legislation and regulation.

[Scott Galloway]

What if you can't get. What if you can't get two or three, two or three Republican centers on board for a federal ban of abortion and he just calls him and says, hey, on the down low, you're old, you're leaving. I can give you $10 million in crypto to your fund or to another account you name and no one will ever know. No one will ever know. Oh, Taiwan or China, you're about to invade Taiwan. We don't need to do it covertly. Just call them. Oh, Sudan. The largest arguably humanitarian disaster globally. Right now. More people are dying in Sudan every day than in Ukraine or Gaza combined. What if he just calls both of them and says it's ebay for geopolitics. Whoever buys more Trump coins gets US Intelligence and some of our heavy armaments and.

[Kara Swisher]

Or Smellania.

[Scott Galloway]

It's called Smellonia, Justin, and nobody has to know. Nobody. I can sell it. I can buy it. Buyers and sellers, totally opaque.

[Kara Swisher]

This is grifter city.

[Scott Galloway]

America is more from a platform that used to be about prosperity and making money. I think that's wonderful. Such that we can tax these people and again, invest in the middle class. That's important to have that ambition. It's important to make money. It's a wonderful thing. But we also were a platform for civil rights, for rule of law, for electing a group of people that had laws that recognized conflicts of interest, such that they could think with some level of patriotism about preventing a tragedy of the commons long term and do what was right for all Americans. And then we could project those values overseas and try and advance women's rights, try and advance democracy. Try and. And do away with honor killings and do away with child marriage and child. Child. We could project our. Now all of that has been crowded into a tiny little box. And America is essentially becoming a platform for how do you make the jump to light speed? And it's a Hunger Games. And if you make money, you have a remarkable life and you get to sit up front with your hot wife. But everybody else, unless you have money, sorry, folks, you're not even. You're not on stage. This really has gone.

[Kara Swisher]

And they run media, they run everything.

[Scott Galloway]

They have the meme coin. His coin is literally the democratization of kleptocracy.

[Kara Swisher]

This is the thing people must pay attention to and do as much reporting on as possible is this bribery system that they've put into place. And it's.

[Scott Galloway]

Again, it may have already happened. We don't even know.

[Kara Swisher]

We don't even know. We don't even know. We don't even know. And of course, they've now captured the irs, so there's not going to be any investigation by the sec. They've captured the sec. There's no way to. It's up to reporters who they're putting the pressure on to be silent. A lot of people are definitely pulling back. I mean, a lot of the coverage was like, look at the pageantry of normalcy of power. Like they, they didn't mention felon once. They didn't mention the insurrection. They did mention the insurrection several times. Isn't it ironic? This is where the insurrection happened and they're sitting there, right? They're all sitting there as if nothing happened. They did mention that, but for the most part, everyone's gonna be pulling back. They are. They're absolutely gonna be pulling back and you're not gonna see it. And that is what Russia is. Russia is a broken, hollowed out state full of people haves and have nots of really making nothing, no innovation. And instead just that tableau of the tech people up there should tell you every single thing you need to know about this particular what's about to happen. Hopefully there'll be pushback. We'll talk about that in the next episode. What is the actual pushback? What is the way to control it? Because they do have their hands on the. The AI. They have their hands on crypto. They've got their hands on.

[Scott Galloway]

Which, by the way, they revoked that executive order. That was one of the executive orders they undid.

[Kara Swisher]

They did, yeah.

[Scott Galloway]

Biden's AI.

[Kara Swisher]

Biden's AI. Which was quite a good, fair one. I thought they just don't want any business. I would this crypto thing is really bad. It's like just, it's just as you said, Scott, democratized corruption. All right, one more quick break. We'll be back for wins and fail scales.

[Scott Galloway]

This week on Prof. G Markets, we speak with Andrew Ross Sorkin, editor at large of DealBook at the New York Times and co anchor of CNBC Squawk Box. We discuss the key economic trends he's watching for Trump's second term, the evolving landscape of the AI market, and the rumors that China is considering selling TikTok to Elon Musk. If China is prepared to sell to Elon Musk and only to Elon Musk Musk, what does that say about the leverage and influence that China must think that they have over Elon Musk by dint of his factories and Tesla business in the nation state that is China? You can find that conversation and many others exclusively on the Prof. G Markets podcast.

[Kara Swisher]

Okay, Scott, let's hear some wins and fails. I think I'll go first. Yesterday, someone who I really had a high regard for, Cecile Richards, who I recently interviewed in June, died of brain cancer. She had suffered from it. She used to be run Planned Parenthood. She did an amazing job. She's the daughter of Ann Richards, who was the legendary Texas governor. Just an amazing woman, just devoted to public service, devoted to helping women. Very articulate, moved Planned Parenthood forward. In terms of healthcare. Everyone always focuses on the abortion part of it, but it's a very important healthcare system for a lot of people. Just a tireless fighter and a decent person. Never was. I know the left has a reputation, being scoldy or anything like that. She just was dignified. She fought, she was strong. The fact that she died on this day, let's remind you, it's MLK's day too. And it is his day, period. Not just two. Was really sad and she was an inspiring figure to me and many other people and so her life was a win. I would contrast that to the demented interview that Andreessen did with the New York Times, where all manner of inaccuracies, but mostly a poor broken man who had something happen to him in his childhood, which is unclear, just is taking it out on the rest of us. What a ridiculous victim mentality he has. It's so sad. And please read it. Cause you can see the problems I've had with him over the many years is never his fault. It's always someone else's fault. Someone's getting in his way. And he has to use inaccurate historical and other references to make his points. And just comparing the two of them, I just couldn't think of a bigger contrast. Someone who is dignified and a real contributor to society, and this guy who certainly has contributed but just can't bring everybody else with him in the journey of his life. Life.

[Scott Galloway]

There you go. My win is. I just think you got to give it to the guy. I think this is. My win is Trump. I think his just trying to call balls and strikes. I think this is arguably the most iconic, remarkable political comeback in history. And I hate to acknowledge it, but the guy left under the cloud of an insurrection. And since then he's been a convicted felon. And yet he managed to exploit weaknesses. And there were many in the Democratic Party who were seen as totally out of touch with real world issues that affected America. And he legitimately won the presidency back. I think it's bad for America. I did not vote for the man, but I just think you gotta give them their due. I think they ran a masterful campaign. And to say we'd be sitting here four years after this mob invaded the Capitol, I think it's remarkable. It's the most remarkable political comeback in history. And so that's my sort of, I don't know, awkward or uncomfortable win. My fail is, again, we are not a serious people. We're in the World Health Organization. We're out. We're in the Iran nuclear deal. We're out. We're in the Paris Accords. We're out. We're in. We're out again. We're banning TikTok bipartisan legislation signed into law. Oh, just kidding. We want to do a deal. Our ability for our enemies and our allies to take us seriously around anything thing has been so dramatically diminished. No, you can. If you do this. If you don't cooperate with our enemies, we have your back. Do they take us seriously when we say that? No. You can turn over information to protect American service people if you give us information on the Taliban's movements and we will make sure that you are safe and we get you out. Will they take us seriously now? No. You should not invade Taiwan. We will reciprocate. We will defend. Taiwan is an ally and we will defend them. Do they take us seriously at our word? We are not a serious people. And the lack, the back and forth, the lack of consistency, the lack of respect and regard for established treaties, precedents of the previous president is hurting us. We are no longer a nation. We're a platform for making money and dividing the spoils amongst an increasingly few number of people such that they can take their third wife or second wife or whatever it is to the inauguration and whoever's richest gets to sit at the front as Melania. As first lady, Melania asks for someone to give tribute in her. This is. We have fallen so far so fast. And I'm also quite frankly, a lot of blame resides with traditional Democrats for providing just an opening here. For being this, in my opinion, out of touch with, with regular Americans real issues. Anyways, my fail is that we are so inconsistent around our policies, even our laws we don't want to enforce and we are blinking left and right. We are not a serious people.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, I think there has to be a different kind of political leader among the Democrats that is really either just. I don't know. Because then you do the tit for tat thing. You do what Biden did with the pardons, you lower yourself and race to the bottom. You have to kind of lower yourself. You have. It does have like speaking of Roman salutes, it has an end of Roman empire vibe to it. It definitely does. Never been more powerful, never been more prosperous overall, not for everybody.

[Scott Galloway]

Karl Marx, capitalism collapsing on itself.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, it's really, it's a disappointment because we have so much. But the panoply of those tech people, I cannot believe. That's what I can't believe. Having covered these people, you know, and I wrote in 2016 that they were sheeple boy. Are they sheeple boy. Was that a good call.

[Scott Galloway]

But let's be even handed here. Aren't you really disappointed in Tim Cook?

[Kara Swisher]

I'm really disappointed in Tim Cook. I know why he did it. I get it, I get it. But you know, he didn't. Satya Ndela wasn't there. He didn't have to be there. Maybe he did, maybe he did, maybe I. There's all kinds of behind the scenes things happening that I don't know, we're not privy to. I'd like it to be in front of the scenes. I'd like an explanation. I think it's probably just shareholder thing. Sam Altman was there. There were lots of people there that didn't wanna be there, that's for sure. And I told you I got a text from someone saying I hate myself more than I think you hate me right now for being here. And I was like, I doubt it, I doubt it. I see why you are, but doesn't mean I hate you less than you hate yourself. But I mean there is A point where you have to say and not be. The thing that the Democrats do is they do this sort of huffy indignance about it. How dare they? You know, this kind of stuff just, like, don't show up like Michelle Obama. That's what you do. Like, Mother Pence didn't show up too, by the way. I bet they were, like, throwing back shots, like, at a bar together, like, fuck that guy. You have to create a whole new narrative and story about America for people that gives them hope and makes them feel like it's fair and not that panoply of bullshit with those people. And they, you know, they looked good, but it did look like the Hunger Games. Scott. I think you're right. 100. Anyway, Lauren Sanchez, we need you.

[Scott Galloway]

We need you.

[Kara Swisher]

I would rather her be president. Like, I don't know. She's very smart.

[Scott Galloway]

I heard she's smart. I heard she's an impressive woman.

[Kara Swisher]

I've met her. She's smart. I think she could do a lot more with her intelligence, but I don't know.

[Scott Galloway]

I think she's doing pretty well.

[Kara Swisher]

All right, whatever. Okay.

[Scott Galloway]

I don't know. I think she's doing pretty well.

[Kara Swisher]

She's an adjacent brilliant person, but she should be in the center of things. Like, more Mackenzie Bezos. I'm sorry. Sorry, Lauren, but I think she's run in circles around you in the end. Historically, she's run circles around you. We want to hear from you. Send us your questions about business, tech, or whatever's on your mind. Go to nymag.com pivot submit a question for the show, or call 855-51-PIVOT. By the way, if you want to see more Lauren Sanchez, go check out her thread. Scott, she really put them up. She put up a lot of photos you might like.

[Scott Galloway]

Really?

[Kara Swisher]

Of herself. Oh, yeah, I'll send them to you.

[Scott Galloway]

That's all I need. Is Kara Swisher sending me nude photos?

[Kara Swisher]

It's not. Well, it's almost nude, but it's. Just go watch it. It's very performative in a very. I'm gonna keep my words to myself. It's unusual to look at, but she does it all the time anyway. Good for you. Good for you, Lauren.

[Scott Galloway]

If you wanna do that, I'm in favor of that. I'm gonna send her a Trump coin.

[Kara Swisher]

Okay. All right. Elsewhere in the Karen Scott universe, I recently spoke with Yonder CEO Graham De Goni for On with Kara Swisher. You'll like this, Scott. Yonder is the company behind those pouches. Getting used at concerts and in schools to lock away phones. It's a physical manifestation of the problem we have with these things. I really like this product and this guy was fantastic. Graham explained to me why it's so important for kids to be separated from their phones in schools.

[Scott Galloway]

What's really important for young people in education, I think, is mostly developing critical thinking faculties.

[Kara Swisher]

Absolutely.

[Scott Galloway]

And so when you think about the type of assignments they're getting, the tools at their disposal, I think the risk is that young kids are becoming information retrieval machines, and that's not critical thinking. And no matter where we think we're going as a society.

[Kara Swisher]

Information retrieval systems.

[Scott Galloway]

Yes. Without that, we're not going anywhere fast. And that's not necessarily a native faculty. It's a muscle that has to be flexed anyway.

[Kara Swisher]

It's a great. He was so interesting. I thought you would like him a lot. Scott. I kept thinking of you throughout the show. In any case, yonder. Jonathan Haight loves Yonder, for example. You have to really just get these things out of your hands because they're so addictive. They're addiction machines. And so I kind of love this business business. It's pretty simple. And he's doing a bunch of other things around getting your phones out of your hands for just a short time of the day, at least. Okay, Scott, that's the show. We'll be back on Friday for more. Would you please read us out?

[Scott Galloway]

Today's show was produced by Lara Naimon, Zoe Marcus and Taylor Griffin. Ernie and her Todd engineered this episode. Thanks also to Drew Burrows, Ms. Silverio and Dan Schulen. Nishat Kurois, Vox Media's executive producer of audio. Make sure you subscribe to the show wherever you listen to podcasts. Thanks for listening to Pivot from New York Magazine and Box Media. You can subscribe to the [e-mail] pod we'll be back later this week for another breakdown of all things tech and business care. Have a great week.