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- [00:01]
Scott Galloway
Support for today's show comes from Attio, the aicrm. If you've ever used a CRM and thought, why does this feel like a second job? Attio is worth a look. ATIO is the AICRM that builds itself. You connect your email and calendar and it pulls in every company, every contact and every interaction already organized in one place. From there, it keeps itself up to date. It understands your customer calls, adapts to how your business works. And the AI agents take action in the background so you can focus on what matters. If you need an intelligent CRM that scales and grows with your business from day one, that's Atia. You can go to attio.com pivot and you'll get 15% off your first year. That's a T T I O.com pivot Support for the show comes from Klaviyo. Imagine hiring two brilliant employees. The first takes your marketing from idea to full campaign, email, sms, push and the time it takes to describe it. The second handles every customer conversation 24 by 7, answering questions, recommending products, handling orders, both on brand and always on your next hires. Klaviyo's AI agents get started at klavi.o.com. Support for the show comes from coreweave. Everywhere you look, AI is expanding what we thought was possible. And at the center of it all is coreweave. Medical research and diagnosis, education, complex visual effects for movies, science and technology breakthroughs. CoreWeave powers AI pioneers around the world with purpose built tech, building what's never been built before. CoreWeave is the essential cloud for AI. Ready for anything, ready for AI. To learn more about how CoreWeave powers the world's best AI, go to coreweave.com readyfor anything. That is the most Kara Swisher thing Kara Swisher has ever said.
- [01:54]
Kara Swisher
Hi everyone, this is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media podcast network. I'm Kara Swisher.
- [01:58]
Scott Galloway
And I'm Scott Galloway.
- [01:59]
Kara Swisher
Guess who I spent a second several wonderful days with this week?
- [02:03]
Scott Galloway
Several, several.
- [02:04]
Kara Swisher
I don't know who My son, Alex Legs. We had a great time. I took him to New York. I had to go up and interview Joanna Stern, who's written a book called I am Not a Robot which Alex really enjoyed. It was at the 92nd Street Y, but it was really nice. And I have a new proposal for us. Scott, I have a new idea. I think it's really nice to spend quality time with one kid at a time, right? To like do something you do that don't you, like, take one, not both, but like, one special thing for like a day or two, whatever they want to do. What do you think? I think that's a great thing.
- [02:40]
Scott Galloway
Pretty much every Saturday night, I do dinner with one of them, and I take. I take trips. I would say if it's not a family trip, I do a trip with one of them, not both of them.
- [02:50]
Kara Swisher
Yeah. Yeah. I thought that you do that. And I was thinking that. I was thinking that's a really good thing. It was such a nice quality time to. And I don't like the word quality time, but it actually was. It was. Where. Because everyone's, you know, as you know, I have a talkie family, so everyone's competing for. For. You know, it's just a lot of people all at once. But it's just nice to have concentrated time with one kid at a time. I just.
- [03:10]
Scott Galloway
Yeah. Nice. Oh, I went. I went and saw Devil Wears Prada, too, and took an edible. Went and got.
- [03:18]
Kara Swisher
Why did you take your wife? What was the cause of you going?
- [03:21]
Scott Galloway
I did my favorite thing in the world. I'm. I'm here just solo with the kids. I took an edible. They didn't want to see it with me. And they don't, like. They don't go to movies. And I went and I ate at the bar at this place called Lena. Which is this Italian restaurant at the bottom of Marylebone or of. Is it Marylebone High Street? Yeah. And then I walked over to the Selfridges theaters, and I gotta admit, I liked it more than I thought. I only walked out about after an hour. True story. I waited until I saw you. I thought you looked really good. I waited till I saw Justin. I thought he nailed his part perfect. And then I. And then I peaced out.
- [03:59]
Kara Swisher
You don't know what happened then.
- [04:00]
Scott Galloway
In the end, I know exactly what fucking happens. It's the same goddamn movie again. There's no different. Not only that. You know what's really even stranger? They all look like they've been frozen. They don't look any different. This was 20 years ago.
- [04:13]
Kara Swisher
I know. Don't they look great?
- [04:14]
Scott Galloway
Everybody looks exactly the same. Yeah, but it's the same story. Oh, there's Annie, who wants to be a journalist, and she's been a journalist. No, journalism.
- [04:22]
Kara Swisher
No, you're wrong. It's a huge global hit. I love how you like, try to
- [04:26]
Scott Galloway
trash it, which doesn't mean it's good. Marvel. Marvel controls the box office.
- [04:30]
Kara Swisher
No, no, no, no. This is doing rather well. All these individualized movies are Doing really well and you love to resist it. But it's the case people are liking. Are into story right now. Very much so. And like smaller story.
- [04:44]
Scott Galloway
Yeah. And you want to see something that's well done, watch Running Point, which also stars Justin. It's great.
- [04:49]
Kara Swisher
I love it. Me too. I watched the entire thing on the plane back from Europe. Yeah.
- [04:55]
Scott Galloway
It was such a walk down memory lane. I moved to New York in 2000 and that was literally the heyday of magazines and Conde Nast was the belle of the ball. And I mean, it's such candy. It reminded me. Francis Ford Coppola, maybe you remember this. He did a movie. It was three or four movies in one and the production values just dripped off the screen and it reminded me of that movie. Oh, I think it was called New York Stories and It was just three different. It was in 1989 and it was three different sort of New York stories. Such great talent, such great production values, but the stories just weren't that compelling. That's how I felt about this. I just enjoyed watching it because the fashion is so beautiful and it just takes you back to a really kind of, I think an iconic time. You never realize you're in a golden age until it's gone.
- [05:47]
Kara Swisher
Yeah, absolutely.
- [05:48]
Scott Galloway
And this was sort of reminiscent of that golden age. And they did pay some homage to the disruption of digital. Talking about social media. But the talent. The talent and the visuals and the cinematography and the fashion and everyone's so fucking good looking. That's worth the. Whatever it was £12, but it's a pretty thin story.
- [06:10]
Kara Swisher
Oh, I don't know. I think Justin was fantastic. I think it was, you know, they're so good. Like watching these people do their stuff is just completely puzzled. And there's a lot of talent. Beautifully made is what I like agree. You know, it's like looking at a beautifully made thing. I thought it was actually a lot deeper and I thought. I think because the interplay between Justin and Meryl Streep in that one scene, which you might have missed, was really amazing.
- [06:31]
Scott Galloway
I didn't see that. I did enjoy Meryl Streep having an HR person following her around. I know what I'm saying.
- [06:36]
Kara Swisher
I feel like, you know what, we'll finish this up. But I feel like I should get someone like that for you going, I
- [06:42]
Scott Galloway
want to kill myself. You can't say that. You can't say that. Don't say that.
- [06:45]
Kara Swisher
She was wonderful, that actor. She's from Bridgerton. She was in Bridgerton. She's amazing. She's everybody?
- [06:52]
Scott Galloway
She's in Bridgerton.
- [06:53]
Kara Swisher
Yeah, she's the wife. She's the second last season married the other Duke of Earl. She's beautiful, but she was fantastic the way she, she like. You can't say that. I literally was thinking of getting you one of those. It's like a helper. Anyway.
- [07:07]
Scott Galloway
You are that person.
- [07:08]
Kara Swisher
I am. That's true. I do. You can't say that. You can't say that. Okay, let's get into it. Before we get into news, I want to chat about a piece in Wired titled the Sad Wives of AI. The author details how the AI boom has created a wave of women, especially in tech heavy circles, because men working in or obsessing over AI are emotionally and mentally consumed by it. One therapist mentioned the piece says her client base is almost entirely women whose husbands are professionally adjacent to AI. Over 70% of AI skilled workers are men. It just made me laugh. I'm not really a sad wife of AI, but I was interviewing Joanna Stern this week at the 92nd Street Y. She's written a book called I Am Not a Robot where she lived with AI for a full year. And I was thinking, I discussed how much you use it compared to me me, which was interesting. I don't know what you think about sad wives of AI, but it's interesting.
- [08:01]
Scott Galloway
This article really shook me and I think it calls on a much bigger issue, more with young men. But I think what's going on here is that this isn't about men falling in love with machines. It's about men choosing control over connection. And I think it's a dangerous.
- [08:17]
Kara Swisher
Oh, I love that.
- [08:19]
Scott Galloway
I think it's a dangerous trend, especially among young men who are forming their approach to relationships their entire life. And that is the following. Real relationships require friction. As I said, AI removes friction. And amongst my friends, and I've talked about this openly and I've said this, I modulate my consumption of porn because I want that energy and that having sex with someone takes real work. And you know what it does? It turns you into a better man. It makes you think about what turns that person on. It makes you think about connection. It makes you think about how you become more attractive. And when men start finding, you know, opting for control in frictionless relationships, it's
- [09:12]
Kara Swisher
not just porn, though. It's just like spending time with it, right? Like really, this is a substitute.
- [09:17]
Scott Galloway
Porn is a substitute for intimate sexual connection. And AI is becoming slowly but surely a replacement for I sit down, I'm doing a lot of virtue Signaling right now, I sit down with my son when I put him to bed every night, and he talks to me about his day. I won't let him be on screens in his room because I'm worried at some point he's going to just start talking to his AI about his school day and asking him for advice. And here's the bottom line. What is usually the right thing is usually the hard thing. And relationship. Nothing is harder and nothing is more rewarding than relationships. And when you come across, when you're young, you can start believing that real relationships feel unnecessarily hard and therefore less appealing. Or more bluntly, when the alternative is a partner or relationship that never disagrees, relationships in reality start looking like a bad deal and we become more disconnected.
- [10:13]
Kara Swisher
No, I did that interview with Sherry Turkle for my series, and she was like, it used to be a sidelight. There was always an odd person who used these things like that. And she goes, now it's nearly everybody. Like, it's very mainstream. And I think, you know, people say it's men and women, but it's largely men.
- [10:31]
Scott Galloway
I've been very seduced by AI around business. But I've decided, and what I tell young men is, you gotta earn your sex. Don't try, really try to modulate your porn. You gotta earn your relationships, your intimacy and your sex. And when you do, that's what makes it really rewarding. Cause memo, it's really hard. When you need advice, go to friends, go to your parents. If you're looking to brainstorm and you're looking for additional data, it's bad for men of my age. It is a fucking disaster for kids under the age of 18.
- [11:03]
Kara Swisher
Yep. Yeah. And they're consumed by it. You know, one point I made to Joanna in this interview, where she used it a lot is she's like, why do you. She was noting it was many more men than women. And I said, and many more men making it or creating it and everything else. And she goes, what do you think? And I said, I think men can't have children. And this is a version of children. Like they're creating a being. Like they're creating and shaping a being in a way that they want to with control. Which is exactly what you said. And I think it's a real. It's a version of that total control over a being, which I think is very attractive.
- [11:40]
Scott Galloway
We're becoming less mammalia. We see declining male participation in relationships. When men don't have a romantic relationship, their friend network goes down. When Women don't have a romantic relationship. Their friend network goes up in a result of increased isolation. We are men, especially men, are substituting relationships with digital alternatives. Gaming, porn, and now AI. And this is what happens when you become increasingly digital. You become subject to the whims of shareholder value which want to take you to the extremes and also elevate incendiary content, nationalist content, misogynistic content, content that demonizes immigrants or demonizes trans kids. And you end up with a cohort of people who take their natural aggression, which can be very positive if channeled the right way in terms of risk taking, in terms of saving other people's lives. But when it's channeled through digital means and start blaming other people, it can lead to nationalism, strongmen. I think this is a really big issue.
- [12:41]
Kara Swisher
Yeah, it is. I had a really interesting discussion with Alex. I was asking him how he used it. Actually I found the way he used it. I said I want to know exactly how you use. And I think they're very honest with my kids. He uses it, for example, he puts problems in it. And then he said it's like an assistant. A tutor, right, an assistant tutor that they go through. He is very complex math problems obviously with his school. Cause he's in such advanced calculus and everything else. And he said I walk through like it's a teaching assistant and then I put it away and do the problems myself. And then I have it look and see where I went wrong. And then I do it again myself. So it's a really. He uses it in a way that I think is smart anyway. But he doesn't use it for, you know, he has a nice girlfriend and you know, they get into beefs and this and that, but it's. But they also have a relationship and I think it's. I think that's not a dumb way to use it. Anyway, it's a really sad story. You should read it. It's in Wired. So let's get to the news at the time. Speaking of men. Men, men, men, men. The photos out of China are really quite disturbing. It's only men at the table here. President Trump and Chinese President Xi have met for a little over two hours right now and attended a state banquet to start off their two day summit in China. In Xi's opening toast at the banquet, Xi said, achieving the great rejuvenation of the Chinese nation and making America great hand in hand. He's snickering at Trump behind his back. Though the White House said both sides agreed that the strait of her moves must remain open. Xi warned Trump that mishandling Taiwan would cause clashes and put the entire relationship in great jeopardy. Trump is joined in China by 17American business leaders, including Elon Musk, Tim Cook and Jensen Huang. A surprising lack of women on this strip everywhere, and also China experts. We asked Alice Hahn, director of Green Mantle and co host of Prof. G's own China Decode podcast, for her thoughts on the summit. Let's listen to what she has to say.
- [14:39]
Alice Hahn
So US President Donald Trump is heading to China. This is the first visit by sitting US president since 2017, when Trump was last president. I'm carrying a three point scorecard going into summit in terms of rating it. Number one, will there be any indication as to tariffs and trade? Number two, will both sides agreed to freeze or maybe even loosen certain export restrictions on chips and rare earths? And number three is the thornier geopolitical question. I think both sides will have two very different readouts on Iran, but certainly both leaders will be talking about it. And I believe that Trump will apply some personal pressure on Xi Jinping to help resolve it, although I suspect the Chinese will be reluctant and push back on any kind of collaboration over Iran. I think this will be largely summitary, without substance, and it does pave the way for more summits to come with potential for two or three other meetings and a Xi visit to the US later this year. One concrete prediction I have for this summit is that China will increase Boeing purchases of aviation equipment. I think the fact that the CEO of Boeing is going there with Trump is an indication of that direction.
- [15:52]
Kara Swisher
Interesting. Obviously she does. Summitry is a really good word. It's interesting because a lot of the coverage out of it is that China thinks we're a declining empire. And of course, who he brought was interesting. You typically bring business people on these things. It's absolutely true. And he brought all mostly tech people or tech adjacent people. I think most people feel that, as she says, nothing's gonna come out of this. And it'll be interesting to see what signals she sends versus Trump. I think. I think he's a more important person to pay attention to. Your thoughts?
- [16:27]
Scott Galloway
It's not who he brought, it's the ratio. He brought 17 CEOs with him and three diplomats. So it feels as if America is just becoming an operating system for the wealth of the top 1%.
- [16:38]
Kara Swisher
And they try to billionaires on a plane like snakes on a plane.
- [16:41]
Scott Galloway
Yeah. And what's the minimum amount of cheap calories and entertainment, Bread and circuses. We can Throw at the bottom 99, such that they don't revolt it. And there's no policy, there's no prep. He sounds like an eighth grader with terrible. You know, who's had to take. He's failed English so many times, he's going to have to take it as English as a second language. It's like, Jesus Christ, can someone buy the guy elements of style before he gives a talk? I mean, he just.
- [17:09]
Kara Swisher
I know the speech was crazy. Chinese restaurants. I didn't even understand what he was talking about. They're laughing at us. You can feel it.
- [17:17]
Scott Galloway
And they. I thought the most important statement, because you can be clear. While he's sort of. He's sort of improvisation with a mic, you can bet Xi calibrates every word.
- [17:28]
Kara Swisher
Yes.
- [17:29]
Scott Galloway
And the words that she said that I think should send a chill down everyone's spine is he said that he hopes that America's current approach, some of the effect of America's current approach towards Taiwan could result in a clash. And Trump hasn't really said a lot about Taiwan. He's not flying to Taiwan with Speaker Pelosi and publicly cementing our relationship with the ally there. He was basically.
- [17:52]
Kara Swisher
It was a warning.
- [17:53]
Scott Galloway
Yeah. Or not even a warning. It was more. I saw it more as like a preview that we are going to start. We are seriously considering some sort of soft, or not so soft, repatriation, acquisition, invasion, whatever. Use whatever word you want of Taiwan. And I think had Trump had more elegant diplomats with them, they would have immediately responded and put out a statement along the lines of, you know, we are all. Both nations are committed to peace. And just as I'm sure we've witnessed the incredible fighting force of Ukraine, when armed with technology, they can repel a much larger aggressor, which in my opinion would be an elegant way of saying stand the fuck down when it comes to Taiwan.
- [18:34]
Kara Swisher
Right. He doesn't sound like he was, and he would never.
- [18:37]
Scott Galloway
He doesn't think. He doesn't have the diplomats or the IQ to respond to what was really the only substantive statement made at this summit and sending Huang over. Jensen used to have 90% share of chips over there. It's gone to zero because China's figured out that if I provide my local entrepreneurs with the incentives to catch up, they just might. And our trade has gone from 23% of their exports used to come with us, now it's 17%. They have bigger trade with Asiana, the Association of Southeast Asian nations. And also they do more trade now with Europe.
- [19:15]
Kara Swisher
Yes, they do.
- [19:16]
Scott Galloway
So we showed up. You know, it looked less like diplomacy than sort of two casino owners trying to refinance each other's debt. But she is the house right now. Trump came in as the guy asking for an extension on his marker, his credit. We are mutually. Each of us has a foot, should we decide on the other's carotid artery. They own 70% of rare earth minerals and 90% of the processing. We own or control with Taiwan, 80 to 90% of sophisticated chips, which is
- [19:50]
Kara Swisher
why Jensen was there to be able to sell. This is something Trump barred, by the way. And then now he wants to sell the chips into China.
- [19:58]
Scott Galloway
Yeah.
- [19:58]
Kara Swisher
So can I make a comment about all the business people, as you said? I mean, it really was. There's so many important issues. Like there should have been a discussion about global AI standards in warnings. Just the way we cooperating with this group, cooperating on scary shit. And this group is all in on whatever. There's nobody who is everything they do. Nobody is a critic of it. This is like, you know, flying billionaires on a plane to China to get shit. Seems problematic from a visual point of view.
- [20:28]
Scott Galloway
You're exactly right. This should have been an opportunity to develop the modern day equivalent of Interpol. We have cooperation even amongst Russia and China around nuclear weapons. We cooperate and we go kill people. If we think they're trying to mix up a biological, you know, a bioweapon, we cooperate and we go find those people and we arrest them or kill them. We should be doing the same thing with cooperating around AI publicly.
- [20:51]
Kara Swisher
Publicly. I suspect there's behind the scenes stuff happening, but of course there is. But at the same time, with this gang, just like with the Advisory Council on AI, it has nothing to do with safety and AI or anything else. It has to do with let's do some business here and as long as it's good for us and my rich friends, I'll do it. But it was. He looked tired, he looked old, he looked addled.
- [21:15]
Scott Galloway
He's both those. He's all those.
- [21:17]
Kara Swisher
And then he was tweeting truth in his little heart out. Like with his. Apparently the piece in the Wall Street Journal. I don't know if you saw that piece of him.
- [21:26]
Scott Galloway
200 truths in a four hour period.
- [21:28]
Kara Swisher
Whatever. It's this lady who helps him, this young lady who has a startling resemblance to Ivanka who stays up with him late at night and does this. And even the White House people don't know what to make of the situation. And the Journal was implying some stuff like trying not to, but she facilitates him, posting this crazy stream of lunacy.
- [21:49]
Scott Galloway
When I'm old, I just hope I have someone facilitating me.
- [21:53]
Kara Swisher
Anyway, we got it planned out.
- [21:55]
Scott Galloway
His name is Manny.
- [21:57]
Kara Swisher
Okay, I know, I know. Manny is gonna soft hands. Manny with the soft hands. I'm gonna. I'm looking for anyone named Manny with soft hands. Call me and I'm gonna get you ready for Scott, which should be in about 10 years.
- [22:08]
Scott Galloway
You should know that.
- [22:08]
Kara Swisher
10 years.
- [22:09]
Scott Galloway
Don't you think I'm. I'm difficult, but I am very generous in terms of competition.
- [22:13]
Kara Swisher
I know you will. When do you think you'll be going down? Like going down?
- [22:16]
Scott Galloway
Oh, I think the correct term is went.
- [22:18]
Kara Swisher
Went. No, no, but really going down, like hard going down.
- [22:22]
Scott Galloway
When you say going down, you mean needing help?
- [22:23]
Kara Swisher
I mean like in the need for a Manny. In the need for a Manny. I'd say 82 for you.
- [22:28]
Scott Galloway
Jesus. That early?
- [22:29]
Alice Hahn
I think so.
- [22:30]
Scott Galloway
My dad, I'm assuming I'll follow the pattern of my dad at about 93. My dad needed help.
- [22:35]
Kara Swisher
93. Okay. Yeah. All right. Okay, Manny, get ready. So Manny might not be born.
- [22:40]
Scott Galloway
Yeah. But just back for a moment. Back to the summit.
- [22:43]
Kara Swisher
Okay, sorry.
- [22:45]
Scott Galloway
Trump doesn't recognize the evolution of China since the last time he was there. China's no longer trying to copy Silicon Valley, they're trying to replace it.
- [22:53]
Kara Swisher
That's correct.
- [22:54]
Scott Galloway
Alibaba alone is going to spend $53 billion on AI. We're so focused on the hyperscaling and the capex here. US hyperscalers are spending 650 billion, but 53 billion from one company. China usually typically has the ability to make their dollars go much further. And what they offer is the fastest zero to a billion dollar companies in history have one general business strategy and we like to think it's the innovator. No, it's not. The second mouse gets the cheese or specifically the shareholder value. And the most dramatic or the most accretive business strategy in history is to provide the following. 80% of the leader for 50% of the price. My first strategy, Engagement of profit, was basically this idea. And that was a lot of people couldn't afford the gap in the 90s. A lot of people think of it as being kind of a middle class retailer. The gap is expensive for a lot of people. Most people can't afford $22 pocket tees. And the idea was, let's tap into this huge population of single mothers who are very conscious about their children's confidence at school and offer 50% or I'm sorry, 80% of the gap for 50% of the price. Old Navy, fastest billion dollar retailer in history. Southwest is essentially, when it started, 80% of the majors for 50% of the price. China's entire strategy is we'll give you 80% of a Siemens cell tower for 40% of the price.
- [24:23]
Kara Swisher
Yep. They're very innovative too. Let's say this idea of what they're. They are a very dynamic autocracy. Let's just say they are a very like dynamic and nimble autocracy.
- [24:33]
Scott Galloway
That's incredible.
- [24:34]
Kara Swisher
Yeah. And they have tons of problems. There was just an interesting, I mean, similar stories. Decline in marriages, decline in kids. They certainly plan that for demographic.
- [24:41]
Scott Galloway
I mean, they have their own issues. Youth, unemployment, demographics, real estate, over leveraging
- [24:45]
Kara Swisher
real estate, morale, stuff like that. Yeah. Which is more problematic in an autocracy, but it's a problematic here, too. All right, Scott, we'll see what happens. Nothing. It's a nothing burger. We'll see if they do more. But I agree with you. Taiwan is where we need to focus. That will be a disaster. That will be our greatest crisis of this era, I think. Okay, Scott, let's go on a quick break. When we come back, Sam Altman takes the stand. Support for the show comes from Quince. It's hard to get everything you want, especially when it comes to your clothes. But what if you could find pieces that feel effortless, comfortable and still put together? Thankfully, there's Quince. Their fabrics feel elevated, the fits are flattering, and everything just works without overthinking it. Quince has all the wardrobe staples for spring. Think 100% linen shorts and shirts from $34, lightweight, breathable and comfortable, but still look put together and clean. 100% Pima cotton tees with a softness that has to be felt. Everything is priced 50 to 80% less than what you find at similar brands. Plus, Quince works directly with ethical factories and cuts out the middlemen. So you're getting pretty premium materials without the markup. I love quints. I have to say. I wear a lot of their athletic athleisure stuff, but I've recently bought some of the T shirts, which are wonderful, and I bought a really great cardigan. Everything I get from there is really well done. They also have a lot of great seasonal colors and prints for spring that'll make getting dressed a breeze. So refresh your everyday with luxury you'll actually use. Head to quince.com pivot for free shipping on your order and 365 days day returns now available in Canada too. That's Q-U-I-N-C.com pivot for free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com pivot
- [26:34]
Scott Galloway
support for pivot comes from Mint Mobile Our money does a lot for us Unfortunately, a lot of phone companies have figured out that your money does a lot for them too. If you take a step back and take stock of all the unnecessary fees and inflexible contracts in your life life, you'll probably find that your wireless plan is a big culprit. It's time to stop overpaying for wireless, just because that's how it's always been. Mint Mobile wants to help you kick that habit and keep more money in your pocket. Mint Mobile offers premium wireless plans starting at just 15 bucks a month. All their plans come with high speed data and unlimited talk and text delivered on the nation's largest 5G network. You can bring your own phone and number, activate online in just minutes and start saving. And immediately. If you like your money, Mint Mobile is for you. You can shop plans@mintmobile.com pivot that's mintmobile.com pivot upfront payment of $45 for three months 5GB plan required equivalent to $15 a month new customer offer for first three months only, then full price plan options available, taxes and fees extra. See Mint Mobile for details. Support for the show comes from Anthropic not every question comes with a simple answer, and when you're working through a complex problem, it helps have a partner to bounce ideas off of and help you uncover the deeper issues beneath the surface. That's where Cloud can help. Cloud is the AI for minds that don't stop at good enough. It's a collaborator that actually understands your entire workflow and thinks with you whether you're debugging code at midnight or strategizing your next business move. Cloud extends your thinking to tackle the problems that matter. Plus, Cloud's research capabilities can have comprehensive, reliable analysis with proper citations. Turning hours of research into minutes and cowork brings brings Claude codes agentic power to your desktop. No terminal required. Just point it to a folder on your computer or add connections like Google Drive and Gmail. Describe what you need and it handles the rest. You can queue up tasks and come back to finish work. So this isn't in the script, but I've connected it to my Gmail and found an incredible augmentation to search for problems we're solving. Get started with Cloud today at Claude AI Pivot. That's Claude aipivot and check out Claude Pro, which includes access to all of the features mentioned in today's episode. Episode Cloud AI Pivot.
- [28:49]
Kara Swisher
Scott we're back. It was Sam Altman's turn in the hot seat this week at the Elon Musk OpenAI trial. Sam denied Elon's claim that he tried to steal a charity and said Elon supported OpenAI becoming a for profit company as long as Elon had total control. That sounds pretty accurate as far as in my experience. Let's go through some of the other highlights from Sam's testimony. Sam described, quote, a hair raising moment when Elon suggested control of OpenAI should pass to his children after his death. That is hair raising. Sam said Elon's departure from OpenAI in 2018 was a morale boost for employees who did not like his hardcore management style. I was there during that time. That's exactly what they described. I have to say I heard from a lot of people he was like a big giant fucking baby. And he does that with all his comes. He comes in, yells, kicks a can and then leaves. And they can't wait till he leaves. Impressed on his OpenAI equity stake, Sam acknowledged that he holds a passive stake in the company through Y Combinator. I also want to mention that Kara Swisher came up in the trial this week. I was surprised, not more while Microsoft
- [29:47]
Scott Galloway
CEO Satya I was surprised, not more.
- [29:49]
Kara Swisher
No, because I was texting a lot.
- [29:50]
Scott Galloway
The most Kara Swisher thing Kara Swisher has ever said. I was surprised I wasn't mentioned more.
- [29:55]
Kara Swisher
I texted with them all. During this time, the Microsoft Satya Nadella was testifying. Elon's lawyers were questioning Nadella about the nature of Microsoft's relationship with OpenAI and pointed to comments he made during an interview with after Sam's firing. He was all in for Sam during that period. Closing arguments are getting underway right now. So again, I don't think there's any more last minute surprises. Elon was not supposed to leave the country, by the way, according to the judge, but he did anyway. He was supposed to be on call essentially, but he doesn't care. Any last minute surprises, anything? It seems like it's going the way we talked about thoughts with this jury.
- [30:35]
Scott Galloway
I don't have any additional color here. Again, I think this is grievance cosplaying, a legal argument. So it's the. So this is a traditional jury trial and the jury decides this.
- [30:43]
Kara Swisher
It's a jury decision and then the judge will decide remedies. So it, you know, if he lose, if Musk wins, they might say, well, we're leaving it as it is and going with the California thing, and they can pay him money or whatever. We're not going to get rid of the CEO. That's one of the things he's asked for. I think he can't possibly. I think this jury can't possibly side with him. I mean, ultimately, I don't think they proved anything. And it's a sort of he said, he said kind of thing. And Elon's the most loathsome of the pair, right? By far, by Country Mile. So I think Elon's made a spectacle of himself. If he wins, it would be something else, like, I'll tell you that. But I can't imagine the jury thinks this guy got a short end of the stick or that he's stupid and didn't know what was happening to him. I think that's really. He's sort of played this. I'm a genius. Well, if you're a genius, how did this happen? Kind of thing. You're not a dupe. And so. So I think they probably think he's lying and there's enough evidence that he is, or just as you said, grievance theater. In any case, I have a feeling it's gonna be quick, but we'll see. It would be a real shocker if he won. And the latest inflation numbers are out, and the news is not good. Consumer prices rose 3.8% last month, the biggest increase in three years. Energy costs obviously accounted for more than 40% of the monthly increase, with gas prices up 28%. Grocery prices, rent and airfares also climbed sharply. President Trump, however, does not appear to be overly concern. And let's listen to how he answered reporter's question as he left the White House for his China trip.
- [32:11]
Scott Galloway
When you're negotiating with Iran, Mr. President, to what extent are American financial situations motivating you to make a deal? Not even a little bit. The only thing that matters when I'm talking about Iran, they can't have a nuclear weapon. I don't think about American's financial situation. I don't think about anybody. I think about one thing. We cannot let Iran have a nuclear weapon. That's all. That's the only thing that motivated.
- [32:38]
Kara Swisher
Oh, wow. That was some quote. That was like an ad. Like they just. He cut an ad for them. That was astonishing, I have to say. I mean, it's what I think he thinks. And this nuclear weapon thing, we're less safe now than we were during the Obama days, when we had most of the enriched uranium and a deal and the Strait of Hormuz was open. So any thoughts about what he's doing here? Why? Or he's just. Just an old addled man who just says whatever's on his mind? I don't know.
- [33:03]
Scott Galloway
Yeah. So look, with this administration, so the quote, unquote, objectives of regime change. Oh, wait, no, no nuclear weapons. Oh, wait. Unconditional surrender. I mean, there really isn't. It's so back and forth and, you know, erratic that it's difficult for him to outline or be taken seriously. Having said that, I do believe that, loosely speaking, the way what he said there is how presidents should approach wars. Wars are more than gas prices. Wars involve killing people and putting our own men and women at risk. And he's not the guy to do this. But I do think the President should be willing to have an adult conversation with the American people. And to say that the reason we have decided to put our own men and women in harm's way and commit this type of treasure and talent and potentially kill many of their citizens is because we think it's worth it. And this is why we think it's worth it. And quite frankly, we don't go to war unless we, as your leaders, have decided that the American public are going to have to sacrifice. George Bush told us we could go to war and cut taxes, and Americans believed him. So I think an adult conversation with the American public around, we have consulted with Congress, we have consulted with our allies, and we believe whatever the objectives are are worth some sacrifice. I think that is the right thing for a president to say. But this requires an adult conversation, more leadership, more gravitas and clear objectives. And none of those things are evident with this president. But again, I think the President should be the person to say to the American public, I'm not going to take you to war unless I think it's worth it and also unless I am willing to ask you to sacrifice.
- [35:01]
Kara Swisher
That's not how he asked it. He's like, I don't give a fuck.
- [35:03]
Scott Galloway
Agreed.
- [35:03]
Kara Swisher
Agreed. He doesn't have any objectives. It's worse than before. He's made it worse. And it's not a war. He's kind of right. It's something else where it's just a disaster. It's just a big fucking mess. The same hiss as casinos. And everything he touches turns to this in some way. Even the New York Times story about the reflecting pool. What a mess. He gave it to some group of people who can't fix it. There's already leaks already it's being painted a color that's not going to let it reflect. It's going to be the non reflecting pool. Everything he does is shoddy and haphazard and unplanned and with a huge whiff stink of corruption attached to it. And then telling them I don't really care about you is really, I think disastrous. It's why his numbers are going down is nobody believes it him about anything that he says except that he doesn't care about you. And I think that's a. I agree a president should say things honestly, but I don't think this is honest. I think this is just. He could give a fuck is what he's saying to you and doesn't have any plan except for disaster.
- [36:07]
Scott Galloway
Well, there's the perception and there's the reality and I think the perception after kind of eight or ten very bad weeks for the President, I think he's actually had a good couple weeks. I do think he looks presidential with xi, although nothing got accomplished other than some saber rattling from xi. The Virginia. I think Virginia's a big deal. The Supreme Court rejecting the attempt to redistrict. I think he's had actually a decent couple of years.
- [36:33]
Kara Swisher
I think the Supreme Court's gonna give it to Virginia because he gave it to everybody else. And I think it's gonna turn.
- [36:38]
Scott Galloway
I'm sorry, gonna give it to Virginia.
- [36:39]
Kara Swisher
It's going to the Supreme Court. That decision is going. The Supreme Court has to say, oh,
- [36:43]
Scott Galloway
you think the redistricting will be allowed?
- [36:45]
Kara Swisher
Yes, I think it'll be allowed and. Cause they've allowed it everywhere else. It's very hard if they've allowed it everywhere else and they. Texas, as we said last week, he can do whatever he wants. Cheating. But polling doesn't lie and polling is showing he can't outrun the polling no matter how many times he cheats. I think he has had a bad couple of weeks actually and he looks older and more addled than ever. I just, I think that this was a typical. He's just saying whatever's on his brain. He wasn't doing it to be, you know, tough with the American and he didn't do it with care. I don't care what anybody's like. I don't think about anyone's financial, American's financial situation. I don't think about anybody. That's ridiculous. And he, you know, we were safer before and we're less safe now.
- [37:29]
Scott Galloway
When's the last time you think he had a good two weeks, Kara, when he won.
- [37:34]
Kara Swisher
Okay, when he won. I don't think it's. This is, I think this has been, I thought part of his first term. Some of the stuff was okay, so
- [37:41]
Scott Galloway
it's been 78 weeks of constant.
- [37:44]
Kara Swisher
No, I do think. No, I think when he won, I think when he won and he had a real opportunity.
- [37:48]
Scott Galloway
It was a year and a half ago.
- [37:49]
Kara Swisher
Yeah. I think it's been like a series of like the one forgets the immigration disasters, the shooting of US Citizens, all the stupid people he's hired, the drunken cash Patel, the lunacy of rfk. I don't think there's any. Well, we shouldn't have dyes in our food. Yes. Sounds good. Like, I don't know what to say. I think it's a very small little wins and, and I think the stock market's done well, but I don't think it's, I think, think it's detached from everyone else's experience. And billionaires have had a good time, that's for sure. Tech billionaires. But this rise in inflation to me is the only thing that matters at this moment for most people.
- [38:28]
Scott Galloway
What people miss. We're very focused on unemployment and we think that unemployment causes unrest. It's actually not unemployment that causes the greatest levels of unrest. It's what really upsets people and moves them to political action and sometimes even some form of revolution, which I think we're already in, is not people who aren't working, it's people who are working and yet still hungry. And that's what's going on here. The unemployment rate is 4.5%. That's not what ails America. What ails America is that people have two jobs and can't afford health care. Now we have inflation or prices outpacing wages. That just translates to the following. The quality of your life goes down. And the problem is America. And I lay a lot of this. Trump doesn't have the IQ or the integrity or the honesty to do this or the confidence around him. But I would also argue that America isn't ready for an adult conversation because if you're going to be serious about inflation, it's very long term difficult things. There's a relationship between essentially the economy breaks into three buckets. There's labor, that is the earners, there's shareholders, the owners and then there's consumers. And because of a lack of antitrust, because of tax policy, we have decided to massively transfer power and economic well being from consumers and earners. Or laborers to shareholders. And everything we do, every tax policy, keeping minimum wage low, writing off all capex, subsidizing certain industries, everything is about how do we consistently take money from earners who minimum wage was 7.25 15 years ago. It's still 7.25, despite the fact that the NASDAQ has quadrupled and push more and more money into shareholders. And also the most boring thing that no one wants to talk about is that when you go from 12 chicken companies to three, when you let pharmaceuticals consolidate, when you let health systems consolidate, when you let let healthcare verticalize, when you let one company control 90% of search, 50% of e commerce, 78% of social media, they will extract greater and greater rents from consumers and earners and transfer it to owners. It requires antitrust. It requires really interesting or more severe, quite frankly, entitlement policy. Where we reduce our entitlements, you're going to have to reduce the military budget, you're going to have to increase taxes 40% AMT across corporations and millionaires, and then slowly but surely create more competition, lower rents on consumers and a transfer of capital back from the owners to the earners. But the American public doesn't have a political election cycle that creates a serious conversation around these things.
- [41:21]
Kara Swisher
No, I get that. I get that. I'm talking about people feeling it at all levels. And you do when you go out, I know it sounds dumb, but I do. Amanda and I split the grocery shopping, but I went to get a quart of milk and. And I was like, what? It was like six or seven dollars. And I was like, are you fucking kidding me? And it's not just looking at the gas pumps or there was something. I was in a airport and there was a sandwich and they were like $14. I'm like, what? Like it was, you know, I didn't get it. I was like, well, that's a lot of money for a sandwich, like kind of thing. And so I don't begrudge them having to raise prices. It's that it was, it's just, I think people who are price resist, like price insensitive are noticing it.
- [42:07]
Scott Galloway
You can't help unless you're just holed up in your house. You can't help but notice things have gotten a lot more expensive. But there's shock and there's a reduction in the quality of life. And then there are threats to your own personal safety. Correct. And those. When you see Affordable Care act subsidies go away, you have someone who's literally dependent upon diabetes Medication for their life.
- [42:28]
Kara Swisher
Life.
- [42:29]
Scott Galloway
See their insurance bill go from $178 a month to $1,700. And it's as if the government has said to them, we don't care that you're working hard. We've decided that you're going to die. And I think those are the kind of what I would call you're going to have. I think we have bad economic policy that results in inflation and a decline in prosperity. What is unacceptable is that someone is worried when someone starts rationing their prescription medication. That should not happen in America.
- [43:02]
Kara Swisher
Or cuts off. There was a really upsetting story in the New York Times, a woman writing about her kid who died of cancer. But they've cut pediatric cancer things. And so you can't get in these studies because they suddenly disappear, these advanced studies and everything. Because he doesn't say, we're not going to help pediatric cancer anymore. What he says is, we're cutting all over the place. So, in essence, that's what we're doing anyway. The rise of inflation comes as Kevin Warsh takes the reins as Fed chair. Warsh was narrowly confirmed by the Senate this week in a 54 to 45 vote. It's usually unanimous, which is where we are. He's certainly qualified. The question is most people don't think the rates are going to be cut. And so juggling this inflation with Trump's demands to lower interest rates, most people think he will not be lowering interest rates. Rates at this moment, given the inflation numbers are so high and there's no signs that they're going down. Just very quick thoughts on that.
- [43:56]
Scott Galloway
We like to talk about, we like to simplify things in the media that this guy's going to come in and cut rates. But people don't want to actually pay attention to the mechanics of the Federal Reserve. And that is the Federal Open Market Committee is the one that decides whether to cut rates or not. So while the Fed chairman has the bully pulpit and sets the agenda, he's one of 11 or 12 votes.
- [44:19]
Kara Swisher
And Powell is still there, as you said.
- [44:21]
Scott Galloway
Yeah. So no interest rates. Kevin Warsh, while a really disappointing testimony at a Senate confirmation hearing. He's not stupid and he doesn't want to go down in history. Is the guy that ignited an upward spiral of inflation. So there's not going to be a rate cut. And as a matter of fact, Kalschi says there's a 72% likelihood there's no rate cuts for the rest of the year because you still. These Fed governors don't want to be known as the people that created breadlines. And when you come off a print of 3.8%, there's no fucking way. If Wash started making noises that we should cut rates, those guys would go on background to journalists saying, this guy's fucking insane in threatening a Weimar Republic like inflationary economy here.
- [45:09]
Kara Swisher
Yeah, I mean, I think it's the deficit and everything else. Maybe they shouldn't consult Zoran Mamdani who balanced the New York budget.
- [45:15]
Scott Galloway
What did he cut? I'm curious. I haven't been following him.
- [45:17]
Kara Swisher
Consultant stuff, a bunch of things. He's doing a rather good job with services. He opened the streets for the soccer, the FIFA matches in front of schools. He closed off streets so kids could play soccer, like learned to play soccer and brought in all these soccer players and stuff. He's very good at services, this guy. I'm just saying I think Trump's got to focus in on providing services to citizens. That's what you're talking about, the idea of that people get something out of government and it's not to be kicked in the fucking teeth. And I think that's really the difference between lots of cities and a lot people of, of both Republican and Democratic governors and mayors who are providing people better services in a smarter way. Anyway, that to me is the goal for everybody. Anyway, we're going to go on a quick break. When we come back, we'll talk about the biggest donors for the midterms.
- [46:12]
Scott Galloway
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- [47:11]
Alice Hahn
I'm Mitch. First two time Indigocelled champion, championship MVP and forward for the US Women's National Team. Before I went pro. I graduated from Harvard with a degree in psychology, which comes in handy more than you think. Any athlete pursuing greatness knows there's a certain mentality you have to have. What people don't know is what that costs. In my podcast, Confessions of an Elite Athlete, I sit down with with the best athletes in the world and explore the psychology, mindset, and unseen battles on the path to greatness. So take a seat and learn from the Confessions of an elite athlete on YouTube or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [48:00]
Kara Swisher
Complex and unprecedented, the Spanish authorities are calling it. Passengers who'd been stuck aboard the Hanta, or maybe Hantavirus stricken Dutch cruise ship disembarked in the Canary Islands this weekend, prompting the highest stakes game of where are they now? Since maybe Covid. Some of the evacuees, American and French, have since tested positive for the virus. And yet public health officials seem remarkably calm. We do have one individual who was
- [48:28]
Alice Hahn
taken to the biocontainment unit early this morning.
- [48:31]
Kara Swisher
And and we assess that individual. They are doing well, possibly because this is not the one to freak out over today. Explained drops every weekday afternoon. Scott, we're back. The biggest donor for the 2026 midterms may or may not surprise you. It's Andreessen Horowitz. The VC firm and its co founders, Mark Andreessen and Ben Horowitz have already spent more than $115 million this election cycle, outspending both George Soros and Elon Musk. Most of the money is spent on the right. It's Musk, Jeff Yass, and these two. Soros is the opposite, but much smaller in comparison. A major chunk of that money is going towards pro crypto and pro AI super PACs. What a surprise. It's where their investments are. Trump and the GOP are also benefiting. Andreessen Horowitz and his founders have together donated roughly $12 million to Trump's super PAC, MAGA Inc. And a trust linked to Marc Andreessen gave nearly $900,000 to the Republican National Committee in March. Not a surprise. I mean, this guy has moved, you know, firmly. It's mostly Mark, but Ben is right along with him, as always. Cause he's this little follow, little follow puppy. Just typical. Just typical. I mean, this is not a surprise. And then he tells nonsensical stories about how he went right. None of which are true. Your thoughts?
- [50:07]
Scott Galloway
It's smart. It's wrong, but it's smart. It's the greatest ROI any firm can get right now.
- [50:13]
Kara Swisher
I think he's figured it out.
- [50:15]
Scott Galloway
This is pay for play. And by the way, Horowitz used to give a lot of money to when he thought Kamala was going to.
- [50:21]
Kara Swisher
He did. Mark used to be a big Gore person, as I recall, a long time ago. He wasn't. Every people are like, oh, he used to be democratic. I was like, if you spent any time with him. He certainly wasn't. He certainly was. He was. Mark is one thing which is self interested in the most extreme way you're ever going to meet someone he's very interested.
- [50:40]
Scott Galloway
That's called a corporation.
- [50:41]
Kara Swisher
I agree, but I'm saying it's really quite. It's really quite. He doesn't even pretend he's really. He's the most selfish person ever. Scott, I get it.
- [50:49]
Scott Galloway
But I mean it's about incentives. It's just if the greatest roi, if you're the CEO of a company or the head of a venture capital firm and the greatest ROI on any spending is not hiring more people. It's not investing in planned property equipment. It's to give money to a president who will pass legislation or block legislation that takes the value of your portfolio companies up 10, 20, $30 billion. That $115 million investment is the best money you can invest.
- [51:18]
Kara Swisher
Absolutely. I agree.
- [51:20]
Scott Galloway
Again, it's the boring shit. Term limits on the Supreme Court. No gerrymandering. Get rid of Citizens United. Until we do those things, you're gonna have strong men or women or fascism from the far left or the far right.
- [51:36]
Kara Swisher
You're right.
- [51:37]
Scott Galloway
You're always gonna have it. And we're outraged at Andreessen, Horowitz, Soros. Okay, there'll be Democrats that'll do it. I bet Jensen Huang is about to Bright a $300 million check to somebody who knows.
- [51:50]
Kara Swisher
You know, it's interesting because look, they have shifted, right? But my point is Mark was never, never liked anybody. Like, that's all I'm saying.
- [51:58]
Scott Galloway
I doubt he does now.
- [51:59]
Kara Swisher
He never does. He likes himself and his things and that's it. It's very. I agree with you. It's the right corporate thing to do. I've never met someone who is so, so anti people in my life. Like just has such disdain for humanity in a way that's really remarkable actually. Just doesn't like anybody, like essentially. And he would do it to the left or right, depending on what suited him. Someone was asking me, well, there are left wing people are going to give me. I'm like, I don't want. Who knows what they're going to be next week. And I don't want any, like, individual rich person, left or right, to be able to. To take advantage this way. It seems unfair. Other people don't get an audience with the president and they have an unnecessary advantage based on money. And that's kind of gross in some ways. It should be gross.
- [52:47]
Scott Galloway
Elon Musk, after the SpaceX IPO might be worth between 700 billion and a trillion dollars.
- [52:53]
Kara Swisher
Yeah.
- [52:54]
Scott Galloway
If he takes 1% of his wealth or $10 billion with his command of technology, he can decide who the next president is.
- [53:01]
Kara Swisher
He can. That's what I mean.
- [53:02]
Scott Galloway
Is that what you want?
- [53:03]
Kara Swisher
No.
- [53:04]
Scott Galloway
Taxes are our Kevlar and our vaccine from power. We need to stop thinking about taxes as something that is inherently evil and slows down the economy. That's bad taxation. Taxation protects us from. I don't want to call them billionaires because I don't want to demonize them. Taxes protect us from an unhealthy aggregation of power due to money. 100%. We shouldn't have any individual. I don't care if it's Soros, I don't care if it's unions, I don't care if it's Lorraine Powell Jobs, although I think she's a wonderful woman. And this isn't a character assessment. You can't have an individual with this much power. And taxes are the only way. Our only protection, our Kevlar against the aggregation of this type of power. And Citizens United gotta get rid of it.
- [54:01]
Kara Swisher
Speaking of which, all my friends have decided you've become a lesbian because of pied a terre. Pierre. A tear.
- [54:06]
Scott Galloway
Really?
- [54:07]
Kara Swisher
They were like, what? Like, they were like, huh?
- [54:09]
Scott Galloway
They weren't expecting that.
- [54:10]
Kara Swisher
No, I was not even.
- [54:11]
Scott Galloway
Oh, by the way, a lot of my friends are like, sending me messages like, what the fuck?
- [54:15]
Kara Swisher
Shut up, buddy. Scott is a lesbian from San Francisco. Now, speaking of virtue signals, I go issue by issue. All right, I get it. I get it. Speaking of, I get them getting more money. Besides Elon becoming a trillionaire, Anthropic is in talks raise new funding that would value it at up to $950 billion. If completed, the company's valuation be 2.5 times what it was just three months ago. And higher than OpenAI's valuation of 852 billion. Of course, there's the overhang of that trial with OpenAI right now. It's a huge thing. Overinflated. I don't know. I don't know.
- [54:50]
Scott Galloway
Look, we've never seen a company scale like that. And we've also never seen. Seen Pepsi overtake Coke or Avis overtake Hertz as quickly. We've never seen this type of transition or pivot or reversal in fortunes. And also, I still think OpenAI's IPO is probably going to be a hit. So get this. In March of 2025, Anthropic's valuation was 61 billion. So it's up 15 fold. It's up 15 fold in the last year.
- [55:22]
Kara Swisher
A lot of parties in Silicon Valley.
- [55:25]
Scott Galloway
Well, okay, it was 9 billion in annual recurring revenue in December. Last month it was 30 billion. They think this month it's on track to reach 50 billion. For the first time, more businesses are using Anthropic than OpenAI, 35% versus 32. Anthropic's business adoption quadrupled over the past year, while OpenAI grew basically flat. And so a board decision on this financing is expected later this month with a. And they think the IPO might happen as early as October. Yeah, and Kalsha is saying it's a 70% chance it goes public this year and then there's also a 60% chance that they have the best AI model at the end of the year. I don't know what that means. Look, I don't. This company is. It's just absolutely firing on all cylinders. Having said that, my thesis is that go long, GLP1, in short, AI, because I don't think, I think it's impossible to maintain a lead in AI with AI, and that is if you look at the technical specifications, it's moving more towards parity than differentiation. And I think it's going to be difficult for any one company to maintain a technical lead here. And that, that will drive down margins. And then when these open weight AIs, when she starts engaging in AI dumping, which is what I would do if I were him, I think it's going to drive down their margins. And the good news is, I think similar to vaccines or PCs or jet transportation, the winners will be us, not these companies.
- [56:54]
Kara Swisher
There'll be one or two companies that will dominate, probably Anthropic is one of them at this point, interestingly, probably Google is the other.
- [57:01]
Scott Galloway
Yeah, it'll be really interesting. But when you look, we have become used to any innovation resulting in a small number of companies capturing trillions of dollars in shareholder value. Again, my thesis is that AI might be more like jet transportation, vaccines and PCs, and that no one company is able to sequester shareholder value.
- [57:20]
Kara Swisher
Yeah, I get your point. So it'd be funny if Apple spent nothing and ends up benefiting the most
- [57:24]
Scott Galloway
which is probably 100%.
- [57:26]
Kara Swisher
Yeah, it'll be sweet. That's sweet. Just last thing, Google. Speaking of, Google is in talks with SpaceX for a rocket launch deal to put orbital data centers in space. The deal is based on currently unproven technology that Elon said is the next frontier for his rocket company. I kind of like this idea. It's totally unproven. Google has a history of investing in wacky schemes. At one point, they had. They were investing. This sounds like a Sergey Brin thing happening here. They used to beef over some girl, but now they're getting along, I suppose. Anyway, this is something. Google has done this. They had wind. They had wind up in wind kites. At one point, they were going to do a chairlift in San Francisco. They had a ship, an energy ship, parked off the city in San Francisco. This is nothing. It feels like. Smells like Sergey Brin to me. And so he would try anything and this would seem cool to him. So, sure, why not? Why not invest in it? What's the difference? If it works, it works. If it doesn't, it doesn't.
- [58:24]
Scott Galloway
I think these guys, they want to put chips down and options on anything they don't have insight into so they can get investor updates, have a chance to work with them. It's smart. Everything is so interconnected. Those graphs that look like a God's eye, Remember Those in the 70s where everyone is invested in everybody else and everybody's suing everybody else?
- [58:43]
Kara Swisher
Yeah, Just like Anthropic is doing a deal with Musk. Not a. Everyone was like, how dare you, Dario? I'm like, are you kidding? Of course he did. Of course they do. They don't. They like beef and then they hug. It's like the mob. Anyway, one more quick break. We'll be back for predictions.
- [59:03]
Scott Galloway
Buzzwords like progressive and affordability are thrown around all the time in politics. But what do they actually mean? For me, being a progressive means at least two things. One, being willing to unite lots and lots of people, all of the folks that are getting screwed over against the powers that be that are making your life worse. And then second, being progressive is essentially a hopeful enterprise that you think. I think that the world can be much better, that we don't have to settle for cool or settle for the status quo. And is there a difference between what it means to the elected officials and what it means to the people?
- [59:43]
Kara Swisher
So money is essentially the root of everything. I don't care if you're gay. I don't care if you have all that. That's like secondary third like that doesn't that's not a priority.
- [59:52]
Scott Galloway
That's this week on America. Actually, let's dig in.
- [59:58]
Alice Hahn
This week on Net Worth and chill. We're diving into another edition of Am I the Asshole Finance edition. And trust me, these money dilemmas will have you question conditioning everything. I'm breaking down real stories from real people who are navigating financial situations that range from mildly awkward to absolutely unhinged. And I'm giving you my unfiltered take on who's in the right and who needs a serious reality check. Because let's be real. When it comes to mixing relationships and finances, someone's always asking if they're the Learn how to set boundaries, protect your wealth, and avoid becoming the villain in your own financial story. Listen wherever you get your podcast, podcasts or watch on YouTube.com YourRichBFF this week on Criminal, a man leaves his girlfriend
- [60:40]
Kara Swisher
at the top of a mountain. He's charged with her death.
- [60:44]
Alice Hahn
And then at the trial, his ex
- [60:46]
Kara Swisher
girlfriend testifies that the same thing had happened to her too.
- [60:51]
Scott Galloway
She screamed, she felt dizzy and you
- [60:54]
Kara Swisher
know, at that moment she realized she
- [60:55]
Scott Galloway
was like completely alone.
- [60:56]
Kara Swisher
Thomas apparently left her on our other
- [61:00]
Alice Hahn
show, this Is Love, a story of
- [61:02]
Kara Swisher
another couple on a mountain. There's no ledges, there's. You're trapped. Had confidence that there's no way this
- [61:11]
Scott Galloway
many things can go wrong in a row.
- [61:13]
Alice Hahn
You can listen to both episodes right now on Criminal.
- [61:16]
Kara Swisher
And this is Love, wherever you get your podcasts. Okay, Scott, let's hear a prediction. I will note that people should something we have talked about and had been in our predictions. A New York Times investigation which you should all read, found that over 80 poly market users have placed bets with suspicious characteristics and won money across nearly 30 topics. The insider trading stuff, this stuff is just getting started on all these predictions markets. So we thought this might happen. But, but just please go read that because it's a really interesting piece. Go ahead, Scott. Prediction.
- [61:55]
Scott Galloway
So my prediction chip maker Sarah Bross went public today at a $40 billion valuation and that's up from its $23 billion valuation in February and 8 billion in 2025. I believe it's playing into this massive historic run up in chips and after an initial pop, I think it'll fall. Since last year its revenue has increased increased less than 2x while its valuation has increased sixfold. And the $40 billion valuation implies a 76 times revenue multiple. In other words, this shouldn't be a public company. It's drafting off of what has been an unprecedented increase in value in the sector. So as an example, Nvidia trades at 26 times revenues and still controls 85% of the AI chip market and is growing faster. Cerberus tried to go public in 2024 but withdrew. They're filing at the last minute over intense scrutiny of its heavy reliance on a single customer, the Emirati AI firm G42. I don't if you remember these guys, it's basically like actual giant big chips, physical giant big chips. It strikes me as quite frankly a shitty company. And this is simply massively benefiting from an unprecedented updraft in chip stocks. And anyways, my prediction is that the, the initial pop this company, which I think is actually a fairly mediocre chip company, trading at 78 times revenue is not going to sustain and I like
- [63:23]
Kara Swisher
a highly specific stock thing.
- [63:25]
Scott Galloway
And then that that same customer, which makes up the lion's share of the revenue group 42 accounted for 24% of revenue last year and state owned UAE university accounted for 62% of revenue. Given what's going on in the UAE, given their dependence on one customer, given the 76 times revenue, this feels like one of those bad Chinese firms that could just go down 95%.
- [63:50]
Kara Swisher
Well, it's a good warning for people anyway. There's a lot of froth happening for sure and so it's hard to separate the good from the bad. Anyway, we want to hear from you. Send us your questions about business, tech or whatever's on your mind. Go to nymag.com pivot submit a question for the show or call 85551 pivot elsewhere in the Karen Scott universe this week on profit you market, Scott spoke with Aswath Demoderin, professor of finance at NYU Stern School of Business. One of Scott's fav to break and he's terrific. I think so too. To break down what's standing out to him in the market so far this year, he shared his thoughts on how the conflict with Iran could ripple through the economy. Let's listen to a clip.
- [64:27]
Scott Galloway
The catastrophic risk here is not that oil gas prices stay higher than they were before the conflict, is whether they'll go even further up because there is a chance of that happening. I think if in many ways what the market seems seems to be building in is the economy can survive with gas prices being $4.50 or 5 depending on what part of the country you're in and that it might not be as robust as you thought it was three months ago, but it's okay. But I think the worry still remains that this crisis, while it's in a slow boil at any point in time, could become a fast boil. At which point you could say, what? What happens to earnings now?
- [65:09]
Kara Swisher
Yeah, that's interesting. 455. I've seen six, seven now. It's really across lots of cities. Anyway, that's the show. Thanks for listening to Pivot. Be sure to like and subscribe to our YouTube channel. We'll be back next week.
- [65:22]
Scott Galloway
Today's show was produced by Lara Naiman, Zoe Marcus, Taylor Griffin and Todd Wiseman. Ernie Interchat engineered this episode. Thanks also to Jude Bros, Ms. Savera and Dan Shalan. The Shock Cross Vox Media Executive Producer Podcast make sure to follow Pivot on your favorite podcast platform. Thank you for listening to Pivot from New York Magazine, Vox Media. We'll be back next week for another breakdown of all things tech and business. Cara have a great weekend.
- [65:50]
Kara Swisher
Support for this show comes from Harvey AI the future of law is agentic. Not just tools that assist, but AI agents that navigate complex matters. That's why Harvey created agents that can do the work from end to end. They build a plan, pull from the secure data sources, run sub agents in parallel, and draft work product ready for your review so you can delegate work and own the judgment. Trusted by more than 60% of the Am Law 100 and leading Fortune 500 legal teams, Harvey is an AI operating system designed specifically for legal work. Harvey Harvey AI tailored for law. Learn more at Harvey AI.