Trump's D.C. Crackdown, Putin Summit, and Cuomo's Mamdani Jabs

Summary

Podcast Summary: Pivot – Episode on Trump's D.C. Crackdown, Putin Summit, and Cuomo's Mamdani Jabs

Release Date: August 12, 2025

In this compelling episode of Pivot by New York Magazine, hosts Kara Swisher and David Remnick delve deep into the tumultuous political landscape of 2025, unpacking significant events surrounding former President Donald Trump, the ongoing Russia-Ukraine conflict, and the heated New York City mayoral race.

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1. Donald Trump's Influence on the Washington Post and "Politics of Fear"

The episode opens with a discussion of David Remnick's recent New Yorker article titled "The Politics of Fear", which scrutinizes Trump's strategic use of intimidation and his impact on American democratic institutions.

• Quote: "I don't think it's inevitable that the project that Donald Trump has set out on... is authoritarian and anti rule of law and all the other things that you discuss on this show quite a lot." (07:48)

Remnick emphasizes Trump's efforts to undermine the Washington Post, highlighting concerns over Bezos' stewardship:

• Quote: "To see this happen to the Post is on Jeff Bezos, and that's a fail." (65:01)

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2. Trump-Putin Summit in Alaska

A significant portion of the discussion centers on the unexpected summit between Donald Trump and Vladimir Putin in Alaska, aiming to negotiate an end to the Russia-Ukraine war.

• Quote: "Trump is now calling it a feel out meeting, which sounds kind of creepy." (19:31)

Swisher and Remnick analyze Putin's motives and the potential outcomes of the summit:

• Quote: "It's more than just the preservation of power. It is the resurrection of Russian supremacy..." (19:52)

They express skepticism about the summit's effectiveness, noting Putin's significant losses and the unlikely restoration of Russian dominance.

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3. Trump's Crackdown on Washington D.C.

The hosts transition to discussing Trump's declaration to place the Washington D.C. police under federal control, citing exaggerated claims of rampant crime.

• Quote: "Our capital city has been overtaken by violent gangs and bloodthirsty criminals..." (31:02)

Swisher and Remnick counter these claims by presenting local perspectives that dispute the severity of the situation:

• Quote: "As a citizen of the District of Columbia, things are not totally out of control here. It's actually a very safe city." (30:38)

They caution against using fear as a political tool, drawing parallels to past authoritarian tactics.

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4. Redistricting and Political Maneuvering in Texas and California

The episode explores intense political battles over redistricting, with a focus on Texas and California's strategies to influence electoral outcomes.

• Quote: "Redistricting is something that's congruent with all kinds of political interests." (40:26)

Remnick critiques Trump's push for a new census excluding undocumented immigrants, predicting significant impacts on congressional representation and funding.

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5. New York City Mayoral Race: Governor Cuomo vs. Zoran Mamdani

A heated segment covers the New York City mayoral race, spotlighting Governor Andrew Cuomo's aggressive tactics against frontrunner Zoran Mamdani.

• Quote: "Cuomo is now framing the race as a heavyweight bout... Cuomo slammed Mamdani for living in a rent-stabilized apartment, calling him rich." (49:33)

Swisher and Remnick assess Mamdani's appeal among younger voters and diverse communities, contrasting it with Cuomo's portrayal as a privileged insider unable to deliver on his promises.

• Quote: "Mamdani has done quite well on the west side of Manhattan and downtown in Queens." (54:00)

They predict Mamdani's strong prospects in the race, despite Cuomo's longstanding political experience.

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6. Additional Insights and Segments

Beyond the primary discussions, the hosts touch upon:

• Epstein Investigation: The enduring scandal's potential to affect Trump's political viability, noting stubborn support within the Republican base.

  • Quote: "47% of Republicans would still vote for Trump even if he was implicated in Epstein's activities." (38:44)

• Civil Society's Role: The critical importance of civil society in resisting authoritarian tendencies, contrasting the robust engagement in the West with its suppression in Russia.

  • Quote: "Civil society has been all but crushed with very, very limited corners of civil society still exist in today's Russia." (18:39)

• Pop Culture References: Light-hearted mentions of South Park and Escape from New York, illustrating the blend of serious politics with cultural commentary.

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7. Wins and Fails

In the final segment, Swisher and Remnick reflect on recent successes and setbacks:

• Win: Praise for David Kirkpatrick's New Yorker piece "The Number", which meticulously details Trump's financial gains during his presidency.

  • Quote: "It's a win. It's a tragic win because of what it's telling you." (62:34)

• Fail: Criticism of Jeff Bezos' management of the Washington Post, lamenting his lack of engagement and the consequent instability of the institution.

  • Quote: "To see this happen to the Post is on Jeff Bezos, and that's a fail." (65:01)

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Conclusion

This episode of Pivot offers a thorough examination of the current political climate, emphasizing the enduring influence of Donald Trump, the complex dynamics of international relations, and the fierce local elections shaping the future of New York City. Through insightful analysis and sharp commentary, Kara Swisher and David Remnick provide listeners with a nuanced understanding of the forces at play in today's world.

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For more insights and detailed discussions, subscribe to Pivot on your favorite podcast platform.

Transcript

[Kara Swisher]

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[David Remnick]

Foreign.

[Unknown]

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[David Remnick]

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[David Remnick]

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[David Remnick]

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[David Remnick]

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[Unknown]

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[David Remnick]

This whole thing is so. We are in a simulation, David, just so you know, this is. None of this is real. Hi everyone, this is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Kara Swisher. Welcome back to.

[Unknown]

God Gree.

[David Remnick]

August.

[Unknown]

That was explosive.

[David Remnick]

I like that. I know. Well, that's for Scott. And while Scott is off gallivanting who knows where, I have yet another brilliant co host joining me, David Remnick, editor of the New Yorker and host of the New Yorker Radio Hour. He's a podcaster now. David, welcome.

[Unknown]

Oh, it's great to be here, Cara. Since we've known each other for about 242 years.

[David Remnick]

242 years at our old alma mater, the Washington Post. How is it going? How's the New Yorker going?

[Unknown]

We're doing okay. There's wood here so I can knock on it. But editorially, we're doing great. And, you know, despite everything, I mean, we could be frank. Yeah, we're doing all right. Business is okay.

[David Remnick]

Yeah. Are you gonna be in the Devil Wears Prada, too?

[Unknown]

I am not.

[David Remnick]

Okay. I'm just asking.

[Unknown]

I'm not. If I can reveal this. I got a phone call to be an extra in it, and I decided maybe it's better to watch the film than be.

[David Remnick]

Oh, really? Interesting. You don't want to wear nice clothes and everything else, do you get to keep it? I don't think so.

[Unknown]

All right, then forget it.

[David Remnick]

You'd be playing David Remnick, so whatever. David Remnick.

[Unknown]

I can think of better things to play.

[David Remnick]

What is David Remnick's fashion sense?

[Unknown]

You're looking at it.

[David Remnick]

You're looking at it.

[Unknown]

You're looking at it.

[David Remnick]

Well, if you had to name the style, what would it be?

[Unknown]

I think it would be late, middle.

[David Remnick]

Aged, slouchy, like, cool dad.

[Unknown]

Not even cool dad, just dad. Or, you know, awaiting Senescence.

[David Remnick]

Something like that.

[Unknown]

You're wearing a Guinness T shirt. I could easily work. I could easily rock that.

[David Remnick]

Oh, yes, I am. I don't ever. I have so many T shirts, I don't even know what I'm wearing. I like to send messages with my T shirt sometimes.

[Unknown]

What are you telling me now with the Guinness thing?

[David Remnick]

Clean one. I almost wore my old Twitter T shirt.

[Unknown]

I still have the T shirt that I was wearing in July of 1998 with Leon Russell on it. I came into work to write a piece. Tina Brown had told us the day before that she was leaving the New Yorker. And I came to work the next day in a Leon Russell T shirt that even then had some holes in it, had some hole problems. And I was called in to see Cy Newhouse, the owner of. Oh, and you were given a job for what reason? I had no idea. And that was destiny.

[David Remnick]

Oh, wow. What? Did he say anything about your outfit? Not very Conde Nast, that's for sure. Your cafeteria upsets me every time I go there because I feel like a homeless person or something. Like I look like, hi, I'd like some free food. And then everyone's eating tiny little things.

[Unknown]

Yeah. Egg whites.

[David Remnick]

Egg whites, yeah. Anyway, we have so much talk about just David has been a long time. When was that? 19. What year did you join? You said 19. It was the last century.

[Unknown]

The New Yorker.

[David Remnick]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

I left the Washington Post. I'd been in Moscow and came home, wrote a book for Took me a year. And then in 1992, Tina Brown became the editor of the New Yorker and asked me to come be a writer there. And I was thrilled.

[David Remnick]

Yeah. And you became editor in six years later.

[Unknown]

Something like that, yeah.

[David Remnick]

Wow. So it's a long time.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[David Remnick]

Yeah. Are you gonna outlast Anna?

[Unknown]

Well, she started before I did.

[David Remnick]

I know, I know. But, you know, it'll be a fight to the death.

[Unknown]

I have to tell you, my relationship with her, which is longstanding and I don't think anybody would mistake me for her or vice versa, we get along terrifically well. She's actually incredibly smart as a business person and obviously as an editor. And I remember asking what makes Anna Wintour a great editor? And this person said, she knows what she wants. And it was actually the scales fell from my eyes. Cause I think editors who don't know what they want confuse everybody and make everybody else crazy.

[David Remnick]

Oh, that's interesting. Did you use that?

[Unknown]

You don't feel that way, Kara?

[David Remnick]

I wasn't much of an editor. I mean, I was. Cause I ran the thing. But I guess I do. I did know what I wanted. I did. I wanted people to. Yes. When I started running all things D. Yes. I wanted them to tell you what they actually were telling each other.

[Unknown]

It doesn't mean you're not filled with uncertainty or bound to make mistakes, but you do have to make a call at a certain point.

[David Remnick]

Right. One of the things Tina Brown speaking of Tina told me, says you can teach someone how to write. You can't teach them how to see in terms of getting the stuff that you need to report on. I thought that was smart.

[Unknown]

I couldn't agree more. You go out into the world, you go to the Middle east or New York City, and you're going to write a story. And you feel like one of those quarterbacks in a video game, that a lot of commotion is happening in the field of life in front of your eyes. And finding a way to locate a story that's both honest, accurate, depending on the circumstances, entertaining or serious, that is a skill. I think that's what she meant.

[David Remnick]

It is. I think she said, what to see? I can't teach you what to see. That's what it was. Which I thought was very, very canny. Actually, she's also a canny editor, as are you. So I wanna ask you about your latest piece in the New Yorker called the Politics of Fear. It's very serious. Speaking of. Not entertaining, but it is. It's beautifully written. It's all about Donald Trump's long, lifelong bullying tactics. You write specifically about the us versus them mentality and that he's using in his second term to intimidate people and bend them to his will. And you call his cabinet a quivering collection of yea sayers. Nice. Well done.

[Unknown]

Well, look at Pam Bondi.

[David Remnick]

Yeah, I know, I know, but yea sayers. I just like the word, though. You do say cartoon bullies do not inevitably prevail. You say pushback like the south park creators, but talk about how well it's worked. Actually. It may not be effective, but it's worked well.

[Unknown]

You know what? Maybe I'm trying to gird my own loins there when I say that to myself and to the reader, because if you're being honest with yourself, horrible things do happen. Democratic systems have disintegrated under pressure historically. So maybe I'm being only 3/4 honest there. But I don't think it's inevitable. I don't think it's inevitable that the project that Donald Trump has set out on, which I think at its hardest, is authoritarian and anti rule of law and all the other things that you discuss on this show quite a lot. I don't think it's inevitable that it prevails. Has it been corrosive? You bet. Has he won lots of victories? You bet. Has he intimidated all kinds of institutions, including our own business, with terrible consequences? That has all happened. And I guess it's important on all kinds of media, all kinds of circumstances to rally people's spirits as best as you can. I'm not deluded that a common piece in the New Yorker is suddenly gonna cause truth, justice in the American way to prevail. But I look at the place where you and I worked.

[David Remnick]

The Washington Post.

[Unknown]

The Washington Post. I was there for 10 years as a young guy.

[David Remnick]

Me too. I was a young guy, too.

[Unknown]

And I'm watching this drama with a broken heart. With a broken heart. The idea that the Washington Post was not just mutable, but that could be undermined to this degree so that so much of its talent runs screaming from the building. To see a gazillionaire like Bezos do the right thing when he first had the Washington Post and then turn tail is really chilling.

[David Remnick]

I have an interest. I mean, I don't think he did much of anything. He kind of left it alone, which is one of the problems. They didn't do anything post. Trump.

[Unknown]

Do no harm. Right? It's like being a doctor.

[David Remnick]

Yes. Yes. I wouldn't call him particularly. Like he said a lot of tech stuff, but I don't think he was. I mean, he brought Fred Ryan kind of like sailed along under the Trump thing.

[Unknown]

Fred Ryan might not have been the most, perhaps not aspiring leader on the business side. And there was all kinds of things that they could have done better, I guess. But Marty Barron as an editor had the same long leash as the editors of the New York Times and all the places that were doing their job well in the first Trump administration, including our place.

[David Remnick]

Can I ask you, I think about. Someone's asked me, why is he doing it? What's the point? I have not answered that question. I'm not sure. I think he was like that before because I've never particularly liked him. I think he's tough and aggressive.

[Unknown]

Is he tough?

[David Remnick]

Yes. He's not a nice. I never thought he was a nice person. So I don't mean nice person.

[Unknown]

I mean the ability to say, look, I have power too. I can stand up to this. And he has made a decision for, I think business reasons first and foremost. Look, the Washington Post is hardly his biggest business.

[David Remnick]

It's his smallest. I don't think he really likes journalists. That was always my, my experience.

[Unknown]

Then you have to ask yourself, why buy it?

[David Remnick]

I don't know. That's the part I think.

[Unknown]

What do you think, Kara?

[David Remnick]

I think he got guilted into it by Mrs. Graham and he thought it was interesting. I think his ex wife was interested in it too. I mean she's very, she's a very. She's distinguished herself since like with her giving and everything else. I think he was on not under her influence. I wouldn't say that. He was in that world and then now he's in a different world that's let's take over Venice and be very performative in our outfits. You know, I think that's what he was actually like versus what he was cosplaying like friend of liberty kind of guy before, I think before was not what he was cosplaying.

[Unknown]

So it's not a lack of self.

[David Remnick]

Awareness I think he's doing, but what I wanna understand at least for being there is he's not even being bullied in this case. He just is doing it right. He's anticipating, bullying or wants more of the space game or whatever it happens to be. But I wanna like, what's the point? Where's the end game here? Because I can tell you the people that have left, I. Every day there's so many more leaving and so how do you run an institute? Like maybe that's the point to hollow it out, to fill it with who you want. I don't know if you have any thoughts.

[Unknown]

I don't, I don't think he cares that much. Number one, Don Graham and Catherine Graham for whatever. I think there was always an illusion that somehow these were lefties. That actually is not the case. Catherine Graham was great friends with Nancy Reagan. She was an establishmentarian. But when the push came to shove to do the right thing on the Pentagon Papers, on Watergate and much smaller decisions along the way, they did the right thing and they made the staff feel. And I'm not talking just about star reporters and editors, I'm talking about people in the press room. They felt like they were part of something, part of something important. Not just an instrument of a billionaire's multi, multi billionaires power complex.

[David Remnick]

Yeah, it's inexplicable at this point because now it's just like suicidal. It feels. But one of the things you said, a quivering collection of yea sayers at the Trump. The tech people have become naysayers. You saw Tim Cook do this the other day with the golden statue.

[Unknown]

What the hell was that?

[David Remnick]

I don't know. I can't even write him. I also was like, are you fucking kidding? But I get it, I get it. He wants no tariffs, man.

[Unknown]

You get one chance on this earth.

[David Remnick]

I agree. I had someone say that. Yeah, well, shareholders is his goal. Shareholders. That's all he cares about. I know, great. But when you say yeast, talk about the Trump Cabinet because it's particularly bending. I don't think they even have to bend. They've bent. They started off bent.

[Unknown]

The first Trump Cabinet in the first term was not my idea of my politics or obviously. But these were kind of establishmentarians from the business world, in defense, in intelligence and the rest. They were, by the way, not absolutely top rate, all of them, but they had some sense of what too far was. They had some sense along the way of limits of the law, of what is just. Shame is a good word. I don't see many people in this cabinet who are possessed of shame or a sense of what a limit is. When you look at the press secretary, there's nothing she will not say. When you look at the Attorney General, there's no limit she will not break. Her client is not the law. Her client is the President of the United States. She's the personal lawyer. She's behaving as if she's the personal lawyer for the President of the United States. That is an immense difference. You could argue that Maybe John Mitchell did the same when he was under Nixon, but here it's across the board. And also there's a competency problem. Pete Hegseth. I don't know, Karl, Would you hire him to run a grocery store?

[David Remnick]

I wouldn't hire him to watch my kids. Well, yeah, well.

[Unknown]

And you could say that about a lot of people in the White House and in the federal. Top of the federal bureaucracy.

[David Remnick]

Do you see anyone in the writing of this that you thought, okay, possibly good or possibly. I mean, Marco Rubio was considered competent by many before, but now everyone who was close with him is like, we don't understand what happened to this person.

[Unknown]

Well, Marco Rubio seems to have been kind of put in a corner. I mean, he does things, but he knows his limits. Look, remember, Marco Rubio is a guy who was insulted so many times in the 2015, 2016 presidential race, I don't know at what reach of one's character. You can say, you know what, that's just between friends. Now I'll be the secretary of state and the national security advisor. It's a signal to Trump that I will do anything you ask without limits. And that's not what these people in those jobs are supposed to do.

[David Remnick]

How does pushback become a larger and more successful moment? It can be south park, that certainly. Satire is often a way that happens. Very funny, very tough satire. You see it a lot from comedy. And you see it. I've just got Chris Eisgruber's who's the head of Princeton's book, Tough book. Like he's writing Pushing Back. You see it in different law firms. You see it different reporters, certainly. How do you make that larger? I think people, regular people. When you see these videos of people on the street stopping ice from arresting people, you see it there.

[Unknown]

It's civil society in various forms. It can't be underestimated. But it isn't absolutely everything. I mean, finally, we have a Congress that's completely in its majority obedient to a president who is by instinct an authoritarian and a court. But that is suspect in many ways as well. So finally, political power can be influenced by and may be limited by civil society. And it's essential. It's exactly what Russia does not have. Civil society has been all but crushed with very, very limited corners of civil society still exist in today's Russia. It's infinitesimal. We still have that. And if we squander it, whether it's managing partner of a law firm or university president or boards of trustees of universities, if we keep squandering it, the picture will get worse and worse and worse. And people seem to be changing their minds too. Look at Harvard University. Harvard University seem to be standing up and they had all the money in the world to do so. Now it looks as if they're going to make a deal. And you could say, well, I don't blame them. They'd be losing all their research money. And I get it, these are complicated positions, otherwise they wouldn't be moral quandaries in the first place. But if we keep backing up, bending down, use whatever metaphor you like, the sum total of that will be the gradual and then accelerating erasure of civil society.

[David Remnick]

Civil society, yeah. Well, speaking of Russia, we've got a lot to get to today, but I want to move to several stories on the politics of the year on full display. So let's get to it. Trump and Putin are set to meet in Alaska this week for a summit. You can see Russia from Alaska. I don't know if you know that. According to Sarah Palin, as Trump pushes for the end to the Russia Ukraine war. After announcing the summit, Trump said there will be some swapping of territories to the betterment of boats. Very Chamberlain esque. Ukraine's President Zelensky, who's not attending the summit as of this recording called decisions made without Ukraine, decisions against peace. European leaders are backing Zelenskyy, saying that Ukraine and Europe's security must remain a top priority. And Trump just said a little while ago that the next meeting will be him, Putin and Zelenskyy. So talk a little bit about this. Trump is now calling it a feel out meeting, which sounds kind of creepy.

[Unknown]

It's a little gross.

[David Remnick]

Yeah, yeah, a little Epsteiny. And what realistically is going to, I had to going to come out of it. You wrote this back in 2022 ahead of Russia invading Ukraine. Few leaders have leveraged inscrutability the way Putin has. But his general imperative is obvious. The preservation of power. Talk a little bit about this summit, this feel out situation.

[Unknown]

Well, it's more than just the preservation of power. It is the resurrection of Russian supremacy in as much of the old Soviet Union as can be mustered. Not because of communism. Communism went out the door even before the fall of the Soviet Union. But I mean, just in terms of great power relations, Trump is. I don't know if this is news. I don't know if it'll require a flash across our phones, but it's a pretty inscription. And this changes his mind and his temperament from hour to hour. So the spectacle of his berating Zelenskyy in the Oval Office was one of the most depressing moments of the past six months. It was the opposite of what an American president should be doing to a leader like Zelenskyy, who's been nothing but brave and tireless and an advocate for his people and incredibly shrewd, and he just sold them out. And then, lo and behold, Russia kept up its attacks on doing what it does best and killing lots and lots of people and destroying lots and lots of Ukrainian infrastructure. And lo and behold, Trump said, this guy is bullshitting me, meaning Putin. So who knows? I think if we ascribe to Trump some sort of. That he's Talleyrand or Metternich and has some sort of grand strategy, and all along he's thinking ahead.

[David Remnick]

Metternich and Trump don't go together. I'll go for it.

[Unknown]

Or anybody else possessed of a strategic market. Then you're kidding yourself.

[David Remnick]

Now we're showing off our college education.

[Unknown]

I've just exhausted it.

[David Remnick]

Yeah, exactly. Me, too.

[Unknown]

So the other truth, though, is that Putin has lost a lot. This adventure has lost him 1 million Russian casualties, deaths and people wounded combined. It has expanded NATO, which is exactly what he didn't want in his northwestern region. It's isolated Russia and Russians. Russian life is not better. Economic life is more perilous, although they've survived better than one would have thought. So this adventure is not great. Is not great. Now he's gained some territory, about 20% of Ukrainian territory, Crimea and eastern Ukraine, and he wants to hold onto it as much as possible.

[David Remnick]

This is the Donbas region, correct? Yeah.

[Unknown]

I think he'd like to call it a day, but with maximal gains, so he can come back and declare a great deal victory and have lots of parades. The question is, is the United States going to let him do that?

[David Remnick]

So is.

[Unknown]

Well, I think we'll see.

[David Remnick]

What are you looking for from this meeting, besides a lot of performative nonsense?

[Unknown]

I don't think it's performative nonsense. I think you need some clarity from Donald Trump and maybe asking too much, some sense of that, that Russia cannot just have what it wants. And also, Russia has lost Ukraine. It may have gained territory in the East. It may have gained Crimea, maybe for the foreseeable future, which it took in 2014. But if you think Ukrainians are now more sympathetic to Russia, that want to be part of Russia and its sphere of influence, you're crazy, right?

[David Remnick]

They want to be part of Europe.

[Unknown]

They want to be part of Europe even more Intensely than ever.

[David Remnick]

So what should he do here? If Trump listened to everything you said to David, what should I say exactly? What would you think the best thing? Should Zelensky be there from the start or.

[Unknown]

Well, there needs to be a process in which Zelenskyy and Putin and Europe and the United States are involved. It cannot be a situation in which Trump in all his bluster and weakness, is alone in a room to the end with Vladimir Putin. If this meeting sets off a process that becomes one that's wider, I don't think Zelenskyy is going to get back everything he wants, which is a horrific tragedy, but a reality. But if Trump goes to Alaska and just cedes everything, Zelenskyy will be in a horrific shape and we will have committed a strategic and moral blunder the likes of which we haven't seen for quite some time.

[David Remnick]

Do you have any guesses of which way that's gonna go? And where is Europe? I mean, Europe's been obviously pressuring.

[Unknown]

Europe is still, you know, it's complicated. But Europe is much more stalwart in Zelenskyy's corner, without question.

[David Remnick]

Yes. So what does it do here? Because this will affect them, right?

[Unknown]

Exactly. Who's threatened more than Europe? You know, if you're sitting in Estonia, Poland, Lithuania, you're watching this a lot more carefully, necessarily, than if you're in New York or North Dakota or California.

[David Remnick]

Do you think Putin would do that at this point? Does he have a sell by date at all?

[Unknown]

I think the one provided by God. Oh, well, mortality.

[David Remnick]

You know how long Lenin is still sitting there, Right?

[Unknown]

Lenin died of a stroke.

[David Remnick]

I went and saw that. No, I know, but I went to see him dead. I did.

[Unknown]

Well, I don't think Putin is going to be followed by the living incarnation of Navalny, though. I mean, he has set up a system that's both personalist and highly, highly, highly nationalist and an authoritarian. And I don't think unless you're a fantasist, you'll suddenly revert to the flux of 1991. 92.

[David Remnick]

Right, right. Where is Boris Yeltsin when you need him?

[Unknown]

Well, there's a. Boris Yeltsin is not a pure picture either. Boris Yeltsin, I guess you could say he peaked in August of 1991 with his strength of standing up to the coup.

[David Remnick]

So you're gonna be watching what would be give everybody one sign of good.

[Unknown]

Or bad, if we don't get a repeat of Trump coming out as he did in Helsinki years ago, and say, I believe Putin, I don't believe my own intelligence agencies remember that incident.

[David Remnick]

Yes, I do.

[Unknown]

If we don't get a repeat of the Oval Office meeting with Zelenskyy where he just humiliated him and he went out of his way to do so with the help of J.D. vance, then we'd have to count it as a small victory. In other words, if he doesn't entirely sell out Ukraine, that would be nice.

[David Remnick]

Yeah, well, he wants that Nobel Prize, doesn't he? He's joking. So we'll see if he listen if he settles the thing maybe in mathematics with a modicum of like, not losing everything he could possibly get it. Okay, David, let's go on a quick break. When we come back, Trump Cracks down on Foreign.

[Unknown]

Comes from another podcast August 2025 marks 20 years since Hurricane Katrina changed New Orleans forever. There have been many accounts of the.

[David Remnick]

Storm'S devastation and what it took to.

[Unknown]

Rebuild, but behind those headlines is another story, one that impacted the lives of thousands of children. Where the Schools Went is a new five part podcast series about what happened to the city schools after the levees.

[David Remnick]

Broke and how it led to the.

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Most radical education experiment in American history.

[David Remnick]

Hosted by Ravi Gupta, a former school principal, where the Schools Went traces the.

[Unknown]

Decades of dysfunction before Katrina and how the high stakes decisions that followed transformed the city's school system. On the podcast you'll hear from the voices of the people who lived it. From veteran educators who lost their jobs and idealists and outsiders who rushed in to students and families who lived through it all. Whether you're a parent, an educator, or.

[David Remnick]

Someone who cares about how communities and.

[Unknown]

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[David Remnick]

Schools Went is a story you need.

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To hear from the branch in partnership with the 74 and Midas touch.

[David Remnick]

Where the Schools Went is out now.

[Unknown]

Wherever you get your podcasts.

[Kara Swisher]

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[David Remnick]

David we're back with more news. Another thing about the politics of fears. President Trump says the police department in D.C. will be placed under federal control because of, quote, totally out of control crime. Let me tell you, as a citizen of the District of Columbia, things are not totally out of control here. It's actually a very safe city. The US Military is preparing to activate several hundred National Guard troops in the city on Monday. As we tape, let's listen to a clip of this speech on the matter on Monday morning.

[Unknown]

Our capital city has been overtaken by violent gangs and bloodthirsty criminals, roving mobs of wild youth, drugged out maniacs and homeless people. And we're not going to let it happen anymore. We're not going to take it.

[David Remnick]

Actually, all those people work at the White House. But I got to tell you, anyone who lives in D.C. is like, what are you talking about? Crime is down. Meanwhile, he's trying. We'll get to marijuana in a minute. But what do you take for this, he did it in California. The governor resisted, but still he did it in DC Is under a really unusual situation where the government can't take over the city or has much more purview over the city, including its elected officials.

[Unknown]

Sorry, this is the oldest tactic. Authoritarians have drugged out maniacs or robbing your houses and et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. Fear, politics of fear. And then he wants to show that in his own backyard. It's a swamp and he's going to clean it up. This is a repeat of LA in some way where the governor and the mayor, I think they. Karen Bass, in a way, the mayor of Los Angeles, after having a rough time during the wildfires, I think reasserted her reputation and her authority by pointing out very clearly in various interviews and news conferences. We had an interview with her in the New York Radio Hour that was very good. And she made it very plain that this was just absolute bullshit and a manipulation by the federal government in the name of Donald Trump to make it seem like drug addled maniacs, in this case immigrants, were just running rough, shut over the ability of the LAPD to control the situation. In an isolated spot in downtown la.

[David Remnick]

Yeah, there was a small spot and.

[Unknown]

I have to think, and also cable television didn't help by 24 hours a day focusing its camera on one burning car. I'm not saying that, you know, violence in the streets is a great thing, but a sense of what it actually was and what was reality and what was exaggerated and the ability of this president to manipulate that situation made it a hell of a lot worse.

[David Remnick]

Why do you see now, obviously the Epstein stuff is another distraction from the Epstein stuff, but what can the mayor do here? Because at one point, remember after Trump really had those troops downtown with the Bible, the whole thing, you know, they painted the plaza, they painted the plaza right near the White House to mock him. She has since gotten rid of that to try to please him and work with the Trump administration. And now, of course, this is what she's getting, right? This is what cooperation yields you. And of course, it started with this guy named Big Balls who worked for Elon Musk. This whole thing is so we are in a simulation, David, just so you know, this is, none of this is real. This guy named Big Balls, this kid was working for Elon Musk. He got beaten up. I'm sorry, Big Balls, that's really terrible thing to happen to you. But, you know, living in this city, the crime is down. All kinds of major crimes are Done. It's a very safe city. Same thing with San Francisco is now on the upswing and everything's looking great and everything else. So trying to paint it as this.

[Unknown]

Oh, we have this in New York City.

[David Remnick]

It's coming for you.

[Unknown]

Of course it is. And by the way, Andrew Cuomo, in his rhetoric is participating in this.

[David Remnick]

Right, exactly. So I'm gonna get to him in a second. So the boxer, what do you do here? What could happen here? You've been in Russia, you've been in lots of hotspots like this, of authoritarian rule. Is this just posturing? Just so he can make a speech and get things away from what's really happening in this country, or what's the danger here? Like, as a citizen, I'm, like, disturbed that there would be US Military on a street. Whenever I'm in a country where that's the case, I'm like, I don't like this country so much.

[Unknown]

Yeah, I've arrived in a banana republic.

[David Remnick]

Right, Exactly.

[Unknown]

Well, one thing traditionally that's been in the authoritarian playbook is not just the use of troops, but it's the taking. Either staging or taking an incident in which there is a clash and using that as an excuse for a crackdown, that's even greater. You saw this in the Soviet Union, you've seen it all over the world. That something will be. I remember in Lithuania, for example, was still Soviet times. Troops went in where they were not needed because there were demonstrations, there were nationalist demonstrations, and the next thing you know, 13 people were dead. And the crackdown became more. And the central authorities, particularly in that case the kgb, were delighted. Delighted. They exploited it, they staged it, and the whole thing. Now, how sophisticated and what kind of forethought is going into this? I don't know. I couldn't say because I'm not in those rooms. But I dare say that we'll find out soon enough.

[David Remnick]

I think the more adjectives they use, the stupider it is. Violent crimes, bloodthirsty criminals, roving mobs of wild youth, drugged out maniacs, and homeless people. Homeless people didn't get a qualifier.

[Unknown]

But look, things will always happen in cities that are terrible. It is a bad thing that Big Balls or whatever his real name is, gets beaten up. It is a horrible thing when there's a murder in the Bronx or in whatever part of New York City that's always going to happen. And it's never completely satisfying to say that the statistics are down because one sentence is filled with life and loss and bloodiness and the Other feels cold and statistical bureaucratical.

[David Remnick]

I got it.

[Unknown]

But in fact. But in fact, it's a huge accomplishment in your city and mine that crime.

[David Remnick]

Violent crime is down and you don't feel unsafe. I don't feel unsafe in New York or D.C. and I have felt unsafe in both places.

[Unknown]

Look, when I was a kid applying for college, my parents, I grew up in New Jersey. My parents said the one place I couldn't apply was Columbia. It was on 116th. And to them sitting in suburban New Jersey, it just seemed very dangerous and probably the 70s, it wasn't so great. I think it would have been fine if I'd gone and now nobody would dream of saying that about Columbia. They have other things to say about Columbia, but not that.

[David Remnick]

Yeah, you know what's interesting is that there was a shooting in Montana. Should he send the national troops there? It's like it doesn't matter. It's the same. It's just such.

[Unknown]

No, but we know what it's about. Yes, it is. But his ability to change the subject, as you said, Kara, is amazing. You know, three weeks ago, the Epstein situation was going to be yet another end of Donald Trump.

[David Remnick]

I think the Epstein situation still has legs. That's my feeling. I do.

[Unknown]

What will take place that will.

[David Remnick]

If you go to the places I read on the Internet with the MAGA people, it illuminates them. It still does. And I don't think they've let Donald Trump. I think they're trying to let Donald Trump off the hook, but they're still. He's trying to sideline it and it will not be that particular thing. Won't be sidelined.

[Unknown]

But what could they find out that they don't know already that would turn them against Trump?

[David Remnick]

Oh, I don't think they would turn against Trump. 47% of Republicans would still vote for Trump even if he was implicated in Epstein's activities, which is disturbing. So I don't know. I think that's something like that could happen. I think something like that could happen.

[Unknown]

This is part of the whole too. This whole business that. But the phenomenon that seems to stun liberals all the time that evangelicals will vote for Donald Trump even though they know X, Y and Z about his character. That it's quote, and this is the phrase that's always used in Washington talk, that it's baked in that they know that about Trump where if they heard it about, say, Obama, they'd be shocked, shocked, shocked and shield their eyes.

[David Remnick]

Yeah, it's true. But he is going to he may take marijuana, reportedly considering recassigning marijuana as a less dangerous drug after companies in the industry have donated millions to his political groups. That's fine. That one. I'm okay. I'm fine. I'm going to move on from that. So, last thing on this segment, Governor Greg Abbott says the registrating fight in Texas could literally last years as he defends his push to arrest Democrats who fled the state to block GOP efforts. I think they popped up in California this week. Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton, by the way, please Google Ken Paxton. Divorce has also asked the state supreme court to remove 13 of those Democrats from office. As redistricting battles spread across the country, California Governor Gavin Newsom is pushing for a special election to get a new House map approved by 2026. And Trump is now calling for a new census that excludes undocumented immigrants, a move he's tried before. A new census would reshape congressional acts and impact federal, state, and local fundings if it were to happen. Talk a little bit about redistricting.

[Unknown]

There's nothing. Redistricting is nothing new. And it's something that's. Look, Barack Obama's district as a state senator, as a state senator in Illinois was an absurdity. A little strip along the north side, and it kind of came down and then went into Hyde Park. These congressional districts historically have been shaped in ways that are congruent with all kinds of political interests. Early on, racism, and to this day, racism and anxiety about so many other subjects. So both parties and American politics has been given to redistricting for less than high motives for a very long time. But as usual. But in the Trump administration, they're taking it to its very heights to do this in the way they're doing this. This is not something that has clear precedent that I can see.

[David Remnick]

Yeah, no, he's doing it because he thinks he's gonna lose the House. Of course he thinks he lose the House. And then it is kind of game over for him in many ways. He'll just spend his time trying hard to do executive orders. That won't be.

[Unknown]

Well, I think this was the illusion of some people in the Democratic Party that after an initial explosion of activity and noise and all the rest, that this term, like the last term, would see him have his interest flag and maybe he's getting older and he'd play a lot more golf. But I think we have to admit that in numerous ways, maybe too many to count, this term is not only much worse than the first term, but the dark Sophistication that he's gone about so many things, some of them collapse. Like, Doge has been a surprise to a lot of people.

[David Remnick]

Yeah. No, he's a lively old man. He is. You ever gone to. My mom's an assisted living. There's a guy. There's a guy in every assisted living home that's like this real, real animated. There's, like, the Biden guy who's wheeling around, who's actually a little more with it than he seems. And then there's the Trump guy, and he's really crazy and really irritating and definitely, like, walking the walls.

[Unknown]

It's not just the usual Trump character that we've known for so many years. He's surrounded by people where age isn't an issue. Stephen Miller's a young man.

[David Remnick]

He is.

[Unknown]

And he is filled with all kinds of impulses, and he is so far, in a dark way, good at it, right?

[David Remnick]

He is, absolutely. Is that the person you would focus most on? Would you consider him a quivering yea Sayer?

[Unknown]

I think that's a good question. No, I think he isn't an actor. He is, from what I understand, especially in terms of domestic policy, but not only. He is the most essential figure in that building. And in fact, what we learned from that chat group that Jeff Goldberg was invited on inadvertently. But what you learned there in that discussion, that it wasn't the Secretary of State or the Defense Secretary that was in charge of the conversation, it was Stephen Miller who brought things to a conclusion, who said, okay, we've discussed this enough, enough.

[David Remnick]

President.

[Unknown]

Very interesting. He was clearly the one speaking in Trump's name.

[David Remnick]

He was, absolutely. And Jeff pointed that out. It was clear, you know, Hexess was sort of performatively saying, playing the Secretary of Defense on television, kind of thing like, look, I have some dates and times and stuff like that. And he was surprised. Vance was quite against it, which was interesting to see that.

[Unknown]

But nobody cared.

[David Remnick]

Nobody cared.

[Unknown]

Nobody cared.

[David Remnick]

In that conversation, Miller came in and wiped this floor with everybody. So is it a good idea for Gavin Newsom to do this? Or, you know, now a Republican governor in New Hampshire said, absolutely not. I'm not going to redistrict, even though she's under pressure to do so.

[Unknown]

You know, this is the dilemma that stretches out to a lot of areas. I just had on our own podcast, a conversation between Ruth Marcus and Jeannie Suk Gerson. They were talking about the Supreme Court and how it should deal with certain things. And the dilemma is, do you answer in kind in A way that feels extra legal or goes outside the bounds of normal politics. And that's the tough thing. And I think Gavin Newsom is basically saying we can't afford to just let Trump and the Trumpists do whatever they want, and we have to answer in kind, otherwise too much will be lost. Even though we know these tactics are ugly. You know California a lot better than I do. You think he has a shot in the end as a presidential candidate?

[David Remnick]

Depends on the atmosphere. Depends on the 20, 26 elections, if he sort of wins and pushes Trump back and. Yeah, I suppose he could. Yeah, I suppose he could. He's got a lot of negatives, but, yeah, he's tall. And I think we're going to elect a tall, handsome white guy for sure, you know, as the president, so not.

[Unknown]

A short, handsome white guy. So. Pete Buttigieg.

[David Remnick]

No, no, no.

[Unknown]

Why?

[David Remnick]

Because I think the gay thing's still a problem for many people. I'm sorry. I think he's terrific. I think he's incredibly well spoken. He's really thoughtful. I just don't. Wes Moore is the other person I would think is. Could be an interesting character.

[Unknown]

He's not a white guy, so far.

[David Remnick]

As I can tell. He's not. But he's so fantastic looking, and he's got, you know, he's got just. I think he's got a lot of attributes. You know, you look. Maybe it's someone from. We don't know, David. I don't know. Maybe it's someone. We don't know. I have to say, anyone who has any charm against JD Vance, if JD Vance is their thing, I find JD Vance charmless and repellent to voters, ultimately.

[Unknown]

The one thing, though, that gave me real pause is his performance in the vice presidential debate was extremely skillful.

[David Remnick]

Yeah. But as president, that's different. If he's the man. He's not really the man.

[Unknown]

He did give a speech recently. I don't know if you caught this at Claremont.

[David Remnick]

I always listen to him.

[Unknown]

Whoa, whoa, whoa. In other words, Trump is an instinctual authoritarian.

[David Remnick]

Right.

[Unknown]

J.D. vance is a very sophisticated nationalist, authoritarian ideologist. I mean, he is a different set of qualities.

[David Remnick]

He absolutely does. And we're going to be paying for the fact that his mama didn't love him enough for the rest of our lives if he wins. I'll tell you that. The story of history, it's just 100%. But mama didn't love him, didn't hug him. I find him charmless. I think the voters, most voters find him charmless. And the fact that south park made him tattoo kind of said everything to me plain.

[Unknown]

It's amazing that South Park. How long has south park been on the air?

[David Remnick]

26 years.

[Unknown]

And that it still has the juice.

[David Remnick]

Well, it goes in and out. My kids love it, have loved it since they were small kids. But yeah, it does. It has the juice. You still have the juice, David.

[Unknown]

Ah, you're so sweet.

[David Remnick]

You still have the. You do. You actually do. Every now and then you come at the store, I'm like, oh, look at that guy. Anyway, let's go on a quick break. When we come back, Cuomo comes after Mamdani in what he calls a heavyweight bout.

[Unknown]

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[David Remnick]

Death is coming for our family.

[Unknown]

The Disney Hulu HBO Max bundle plans starting at $16.99 a month. All these and more streaming soon. Visit Disney Hulu HBOMaxBundle.com for details.

[David Remnick]

David we're back with more news in New York City, your home in the mayoral race Andrew Cuomo is jo targeting frontrunner Zoran Mamdani in a series of social media texts. And I use that term broadly because they're really stupid. Cuomo is now framing the race as a heavyweight bout, which is what someone who still lives in the 1980s when Rocky was hot would use. Cuomo slammed Mamdani for living in a rent stabilized apartment, calling him rich and saying he should move out. Cuomo, I'll note Cuomo moved to the city about a year ago and pays about $8,000 in rent. And New York Times also reported last week that Cuomo recently spoke with Donald Trump about the mayoral race, though both men have denied.

[Unknown]

Very sad. I have to say he is proof positive that there is a such thing as a sell by date. When you saw him in the debate, Mamdani, Cuomo and some other figures, Brad Lander and so on. And I have never seen a clock cleaned so efficiently as Mamdani cleaned Cuomo's clock, Cuomo had lost it. This was a guy who really had prided himself on a certain kind of I get things done, tough guy. Tough guy, but I'm your tough guy. That mode, very different from his old man.

[David Remnick]

Very eye of the tiger. Very eye of the tiger.

[Unknown]

Ooh. And Mamdani, who's very young, right. And he just came in very cool, funny, engaged look. There's all kinds of things we can discuss and argue and he's a fascinating figure. But just on raw politics as a boxing match, that was the kind of decision where the, you know, you win by 10 points, you win every round.

[David Remnick]

Besides Quo's terrible boxing, though, using that metaphor, feels so dated at this moment. I don't know why. I bet the Youngs are like, what?

[Unknown]

Yeah, boxing is not exactly the center of attention. Here's the thing. We live in a very. It's a young city. It's a city where certain constituencies have been totally overlooked. We have in this city between 750 and a million Muslim voters. We have a city filled with young people who are deeply depressed by national politics and see no hope in it and are fed up with all kinds of versions of the familiar and feel that they're not going to have the kind of life care that you and I have been privilege to have. And so I think they look at somebody like Cuomo as just worn out and cynical. And it matters. His ads and his social media are just very. Twenty years ago, Eric Adams comes across as, at this point, not very.

[David Remnick]

I'd vote for Eric Adams over Cuomo at this point. I Can't believe I just said that. I understand.

[Unknown]

But you also have this hilarious phenomenon that Adams and Cuomo are waiting for one or the other to drop out, even though they're neck and neck in the polls. And I bet you that neither one of them do. And they.

[David Remnick]

No, Adams would have a better chance against Mamdani. Actually. Actually, if I had to, like, choose that.

[Unknown]

Adams has a better chance.

[David Remnick]

Right?

[Unknown]

I think that's absolutely right. He could still get a substantial African American vote. There might be some people who see Mamdani as. That comes from a privileged background, no matter what the ethnic background is. Or some people feel rightly or wrongly alienated by his views on the Middle east, even though the mayor of New York very rarely controls foreign policy. But they may feel alienated by that. But I think Moldani is going to win, right?

[David Remnick]

No, he's way up. But for people to know right now, the polls are showing him doing very well.

[Unknown]

No, and we're forgetting Curtis Sliwa, who I first covered as a young Washington Post reporter. And he lives up the street from me, I think in a studio apartment with about 15 cats and his wife. He's an odd. He's an odd bird, but he's getting some votes.

[David Remnick]

He is actually, you know, actually, of all the people presenting, he's actually somewhat funny. And I'm like.

[Unknown]

And he's himself.

[David Remnick]

He's himself. And actually, some of the things he says, I'm like, that's a fair point. I literally, from him with the hat and from when he used to.

[Unknown]

He's not wearing the hat and he's giving up the.

[David Remnick]

No, he had the hat.

[Unknown]

He gives it up here and there because he wants to look, you know, mayoral.

[David Remnick]

I think he should go with the hat.

[Unknown]

That's why we know who he is.

[David Remnick]

Yeah, exactly.

[Unknown]

It's like Groucho without the mustache and the cigar.

[David Remnick]

I actually literally was like, okay, this is my stack rank. Mamdani, Silwa, Curtis, whatever. Him, the hat guy. Adam's Cuomo. Literally. That's how I go. And it's like, I cannot believe I'm saying this. I don't live in New York. Do you talk a little bit about Mamdani's weaknesses, though? Cause my son lives in New York, has just recently left New York. He was at nyu. Love Mamdani. So does my other older son, of course. And it's not for, you know, he knows that some of the stuff is, like, he can't do grocery stores necessarily, but he likes the idea that he's talking about it, he's not sure he can do. He's like, well, he's thinking about people's food, thinking about. He goes, I don't know if he'll do it. But everyone else says shit that they don't do.

[Unknown]

Part of it is it costs a fortune to live decently in New York City, period. And so forget the poor for a moment. But to live a middle class life on an income in much of the rest of the country would seem quite comfortable is really, really hard. And one of the truisms of politics is parents want to know that their kids are going to live slightly better than them. And here the numbers are the opposite for a big part of the population. At first, Mamdani's support seemed to be isolated in what's called the brownstone belt. Comfortable young creatives whose politics are left and who are struggling to make it work in Bed Stuy or Park Slope, which is wealthier, and so on. In fact, that's not the limitation. He's not limited to that vote. He has done quite well on the west side of Manhattan and downtown in Queens. So I think he's just going to rump. I think he's going to win by a lot of.

[David Remnick]

I think he's going to win by a lot. And Cuomo, not by a lot. What's his biggest weakness? If you were Cuomo and not living in the Rocky period, Rocky 1 period of the world, what would you tell Cuomo to do?

[Unknown]

Well, there are three areas of conversation. I don't know if they're weaknesses, but three areas of angles of attack that we've seen. One is the false accusation that he's somehow an anti Semite. It's just really nonsense. There's no question that he's pro Palestinian rights. And that was an energizing issue even in his college days. And some of the vocabulary that comes along with that alienates some voters, some of them Jewish. That's one area. The other area is he comes from a background where his father is a very distinguished Columbia professor and is mother is a movie maker. And while not wealthy in the New York sense, they're wealthy and privileged in every sense elsewhere and certainly to the majority of New Yorkers. So there's one thing like that. So he's the privileged kid of the left, that sort of thing. Yeah. Then the third thing is, well, he can't do what he's promising. So he's talking about grocery stores. I think maybe when it comes to grocery stores, what he's talking about is having some models of how this would work. It's not like he's going to return us to the Soviet Union of empty state grocery stores in 1978. And how you go about affecting rent prices and limiting raises in rent prices and how you have an effect on the really radical income differences in New York City and elsewhere depends on the state legislature, as Kathy Hochul has pointed out any number of times. And it's likely that he's certainly not going to win every battle. But what a lot of people see is that, and I hate to use the New Agee, he sees them in a way that Eric Adams is too weird to do. And Cuomo is past his sell by.

[David Remnick]

Date, past his sell by day. Do you worry about Donald Trump coming in? If he wins, they're gonna use it, the win, as something.

[Unknown]

Of course. Of course it's unpredictable. But clearly Donald Trump sees himself as a New Yorker, even though he's mainly abandoned New York for the delicious tax comforts of Florida.

[David Remnick]

Yeah. So he will come in in some way or another.

[Unknown]

Look, he's doing this in Washington now. To what degree and how much of it is a show and there to just prove that he can do this with swagger like he's done to universities and any number of other institutions. It's hard to say.

[David Remnick]

Yeah. The Battle for New York. That was a movie with Kurt Russell. Yes. That movie is amazing. He plays Snake. Escape from New York. There was Escape from la, too, but he plays Snake. That's. I think his name is Snake. And New York becomes sort of a bad place, and then a rich guy's daughter gets plane crashes there, and then he has to go in and get her.

[Unknown]

Can Kurt Russell run for mayor?

[David Remnick]

Trust me. You and Esther watch it, so you'll thank me. All right, David, one more quick break. We'll be back for wins and fails.

[Unknown]

My name's Sean Ramasvooram for today explained. I'm outside the Air and Space museum in Washington, D.C. with one question. Do you think we should go to Mars?

I don't think you should live in Mars, No.

I don't know why.

Just Mars.

[David Remnick]

I think as earthlings, we are a.

[Unknown]

Nosy group of people.

[David Remnick]

And I really don't think that we have any business going to Mars. Our knowledge about the solar system and.

[Unknown]

The universe will grow substantially. I think maybe we should just leave. Leave Mars alone, Just sit with Earth.

Like so many innovations are going to come out of it because so many different companies are going to be fighting to get that first ticket to Mars. So I feel like we should. But at the same time, we should solve some problems here first.

[David Remnick]

I think we need to expand what we know, what we see. Honestly, for our own benefit.

[Unknown]

We should go way beyond Today Explained.

From Vox is taking a summer sojourn on Mars. Join us I'm Jesse. Dave Fox, senior writer at Vulture and host of Good One, a show with the best interviews with your favorite comedians ever. And this week on our podcast from Severance, the Meet the Parents movies. Zoolander, cable guy Ben Stiller. Yes, the Ben Stiller.

The Believability of the World. I think I care a lot about that. Whatever reality you're creating, there's a enough of, you know, a grounding in some sort of identifiable reality that you believe it.

You can watch Good One every week at YouTube.com vulture or listen wherever you get your podcasts. New episodes drop on Thursdays. Have a good one.

[David Remnick]

Hi, I'm Teffy.

[I]

Maybe you've seen me on TikTok or TV or interviewing celebrities on the red carpet. But before all that, I was just another girl running late to her desk job, transferring calls, ordering printer ink. I don't miss that. But I do miss not working at work, gossiping with my co workers about celebrities. What's the latest with Bieber? Where's Britney? And which Jonas brother is which? That's what I want my new podcast to feel like. Like you and I are work best friends. We'll chat about celebrities we're obsessed with. How could you be registered to vote and not know who Jennifer Aniston is? Look up their star charts. Sagittarius and a Capricorn. They do clash and have so much fun avoiding real work together. I'm having a silly goose of a time. Teffy runs, Teffy laughs. Teffy overshares, Teffy explains. But most of all, Teffy talks. From me, the Cut and Vox Media podcasts. This is Teffy Talks.

[David Remnick]

Let's go. Okay, David, wrapping up. Let's hear some wins and fails. Why don't you go first?

[Unknown]

Can I be patriotic in my win?

[David Remnick]

Sure.

[Unknown]

David Kirkpatrick, who came to this magazine first as a fact checker many years ago when I first got here and then returned here from a career at the New York Times to be a writer at the New Yorker, has published this week a huge piece in the New Yorker called the Number. And what it is is a meticulous, fair minded, non jumping to conclusions accounting of how much money, of how much money Donald Trump and his family has made off of the president in six months, 2.5 billion it's $3.5 billion, which is a lot in six months. And I will say that if anything, Kirkpatrick bends over backwards to be conservative in his accounting by nature and by what I can see in the reporting and the fact checking. So I think that's. It's a win. It's a tragic win because of what it's telling you. But there's that.

[David Remnick]

Yeah, the grift.

[Unknown]

Do you have a win or should I go to fail?

[David Remnick]

No, go ahead. Go to fail.

[Unknown]

And this is sentimental, but also I think, important. It's what we started our conversation with. I think Jeff Bezos is behavior with the Washington Post. I don't care how he gets married. He wants to take over the city of Rome or Albania to get married, as we say on my blog, Zeigezund. Fine, maybe that pays a lot of catering bills and wonderful. But to take an institution and what we're discovering in recent years to our pain is that institutions are fragile things that seemed like they'd last forever and were a good thing in their sum total. They're fragile and to watch really earnest, good reporters and editors have to live through this is really painful. Not just because I worked there a million years ago, but it's a big deal to have the news outlet in the capital of the country be put in this kind of deeply uncertain position at best. I'm glad to see that the Wall Street Journal in many ways has shown itself up lately. Emma Tucker proves to be a terrific editor and that's good for competition with the Times and others. But to see this happen to the Post is on Jeff Bezos, and that's a fail.

[David Remnick]

It's a real fail. I just. It's astounding. You should buy it with me, David. He won't meet with me. He might meet with you. You're a white guy.

[Unknown]

But you got. You got the doe. I'm the white guy. Together we can conquer worlds. Worlds.

[David Remnick]

The doe and the white guy. That's like a reality show. That would be such a good.

[Unknown]

Kurt Russell would play me. Who would play you?

[David Remnick]

Yes, with a patch. Kurt Russell would also play me. All right, my fail is, I gotta say this story in the New York Times. Mark Zuckerberg was running a private school for his two daughters and a dozen other children out of his house in a compound in Palo Alto. And it's in violation of city code. Meanwhile, a school he and his wife established for low income families in East Palo Alto announced it would be shutting down in April because he stopped funding it. The Idea of this private school for his children and a few other rich kids in the area or rich friends or whatever is grotesque. These people, they already go away from people and reality and now they're even further raising their children to do so, to be out of. They should be in schools in Palo Alto. They have excellent public schools in Palo Alto and to do this is really, I find it grotesque. And so to do this just in a high handed way. He's already taking over great swaths of this area. Now, Palo Alto's always been a rich place, but he's grotesque rised it in a way. And it's just icky that this is what he's doing with his children. Kids should not be sequestered like this.

[Unknown]

I like that word, grotesqueras grotte. It's a word for our age.

[David Remnick]

It is, it is grotesque. And speaking of fantastarese, the season finale of the Gilded Age was so good. I can't. Oh my God, have you seen it yet?

[Unknown]

I watched like an episode when it began. I had.

[David Remnick]

Oh, no, stop, stop.

[Unknown]

All right, I'll dig in.

[David Remnick]

Start with this season. Start with this season. You'll pick it right up against rich people. You know, this is a different version of rich people. And there's train daddy, who is, who is Vanderbilt, who's playing the character.

[Unknown]

His name is Russell, but no exploding vehicles.

[David Remnick]

Oh, it's the same guy who did Downton Abbey. So yes, there's things that happen. That kind of thing. That guy, that guy. And so it's great. It's really great. The costumes are great. I gotta say. Carrie coons, who plays Mrs. Russell, Mrs. Bertha Russell is just fantastic. Such a groping, grasping. It's billionaires. I get behind. Like, I love these billionaires. They're so fantastic and awful, but they're in. In the greatest of American ways. And at one point in the finale, I'm not gonna give away stuff, but she goes, she's letting divorced women into the balls. And so one woman says to her, you know, it's really important that we move into the future. And the woman, Carrie Coons, is fantastic and deserves every Emmy in the book goes, this is the future and the future is America. And it's so maga. It's so good.

[Unknown]

I'm sold. I am sold.

[David Remnick]

And at the same time, they have, they've really doubled down. They have a whole. They're showing this sort of, sort of upcoming black upper class and upper and middle class in a really beautiful way. And they juxtapose these balls and just wonderful Just really. And first people thought it was the most low stakes show ever. Like they're worried about whether someone crosses the street to go to a party. It's actually really. It's turned into something very heartfelt. So fantastic, fantastic finale and I'm excited for season four.

[Unknown]

Thank you. I'm there.

[David Remnick]

Yeah, I'm there. And I wanted one thing is it's not a fail, but Sarah Jessica Parker is gonna finally do her final show this week, which is essentially Sex and the City franchise. And I have to say, pound for pound and she doesn't weigh that much. She's given a lot. Speaking of New York City, you can have all your criticism of that show, but really well done over the many, many, many years and lots of. I personally like her a lot.

[Unknown]

Me too.

[David Remnick]

Yeah, she's a lovely person and it's gotten really good the last season. So it's one more episode and she deserves all the kudos too. So to both of those ladies, Bertha and sjp. Anyway, we wanna hear from you. Send us your questions about business, tech or whatever's on your mind. Go to nymag.com pivot to submit a question for the show or call 85551, pivot. And before we go this week and on with Kara Swisher, I spoke with Gary Ginsberg and Carol Radziwill about America's enduring fascination with jf Also a New Yorker before he died. Let's listen to a clip of Gary Ginsburg, a former senior editor at George magazine, talk about JFK Jr. S political stance.

[Unknown]

He had a vision about politics that I think is really important for today. He thought of himself as kind of a post partisan. He didn't believe in partisan politics even though he was a lifelong Democrat. His family embodied the Democratic Party. He really thought that effectively of policymaking would be done through post partisanship.

[David Remnick]

As it turns out, he was wrong about that. But he was very pressing about that magazine and entertainment and politics and celebrity. Really interesting is a series on CNN that's really interesting. And of course a tragic early death of JFK Jr. But it's full of fantastic photos of JFK. The entire thing is handsome. JFK wandering through it. It'd be interesting to know what he would have been. Do you think he would have run for office? Absolutely.

[Unknown]

Think, oh God, why would anybody?

[David Remnick]

I know, but he would have, don't you think?

[Unknown]

I think probably, yeah.

[David Remnick]

Impossibly handsome. Very quite smart, actually. Very interesting. Yeah, he probably would have. We probably would have been better off with someone like him because rich person who tried. Yeah, I like rich people who try. We're going to have them.

[Unknown]

You're getting thinner on the ground.

[David Remnick]

I agree. If we're going to have them, let's have the ones that try. And again, Bertha Russell. Okay. And please watch that. And Escape from New York. David, I've given you two assignments for you and your wife for this week.

[Unknown]

I think I know which one I'm going to.

[David Remnick]

All right. Okay. But gilded.

[Unknown]

I just said that's the one.

[David Remnick]

Anyway. Okay. That's the show. Thanks for listening. Be sure to like and subscribe to our YouTube channel. We'll be back on Friday and I'll read us out. David, thank you so much.

[Unknown]

What a pleasure.

[David Remnick]

Kara, what a pleasure. You're always a pleasure.

[Unknown]

Great fun.

[David Remnick]

You are one of the finest editors in the land, I have to say.

[Unknown]

Thank you.

[David Remnick]

And you do an amazing job. And you still have the juice. Today's show was produced by Lara Naman, Zoe Marcus, Taylor Griffin, and Kevin Oliver. Ernie Enderdot engineered this episode. Nishat Kirwa is Vox Media's executive producer of podcasts. Make sure to follow Pivot on your favorite podcast platform. Thanks for listening to Pivot from New York magazine and Vox Media. You can subscribe to the [e-mail] pod we'll be back later this week for another breakdown of all things tech and business. Thank you, David, again.

[Unknown]

My pleasure.