Trump's Meme Coin Scheme, Alphabet's Earnings, and Cybertruck's Competition

Summary

Podcast Summary: Pivot – Episode: Trump's Meme Coin Scheme, Alphabet's Earnings, and Cybertruck's Competition

Release Date: April 29, 2025

Hosts: Kara Swisher and Scott Galloway

---

1. Personal Updates and Social Commentary

Timestamp: [01:59 – 05:24]

Kara Swisher opens the episode by sharing her experiences attending various parties associated with the White House Correspondents' dinner and other industry gatherings. She highlights the absence of prominent Republican figures like Kellyanne Conway, noting the shift in the event's atmosphere. A memorable moment occurs when Scott and Kara discuss their weekend activities, including Scott's workout in London's Regent Park and watching episodes of "Game of Thrones" with his son.

Notable Quote:

• Kara Swisher: "[...] I sat in a Corvette, which was cool. That was a cool car. Beautiful new Corvette. And saw the new Evie Escalade, which was gorgeous." [03:35]

---

2. Alphabet's Earnings Report

Timestamp: [09:48 – 14:35]

The hosts delve into Alphabet's latest earnings, praising the company's robust performance. Scott Galloway emphasizes Alphabet's diverse revenue streams, including advertising, search, and Waymo's autonomous rides. Despite concerns about competition from AI tools like ChatGPT, Scott argues that Alphabet remains undervalued and poised for growth.

Notable Quotes:

• Kara Swisher: "Overall revenue grew 12% year over year, beating expectations." [10:17]
• Scott Galloway: "Alphabet is just an incredible company. I think Alphabet is arguably the most adult." [15:28]

---

3. Trump's Handling of Immigration and Public Polls

Timestamp: [18:04 – 22:05]

Kara and Scott analyze recent developments in President Trump's immigration policies, referencing the arrest of Judge Hannah C. Dugan and the deportation of three children with their mother. They discuss the declining public approval of Trump's immigration strategies, highlighting a Washington Post ABC Ipsos poll where 53% of Americans disapprove of his handling.

Notable Quotes:

• Scott Galloway: "His policies, especially on the immigration side, involve significant overreach and cruelty." [20:27]
• Kara Swisher: "He could Kara, the media and progressives could have their hair on fire and he could be one of the most popular presidents in history in the first hundred days." [20:30]

---

4. Trump's Meme Coin Scheme and Corruption Allegations

Timestamp: [25:29 – 33:08]

The conversation shifts to President Trump's introduction of a meme coin, which saw a rapid 50% price surge, elevating its market value to $2.7 billion. Kara discusses the ethical concerns raised by Senators Chris Murphy, Adam Schiff, and Elizabeth Warren regarding potential corruption. Scott defends the move as a right of free assembly but acknowledges the questionable timing and execution, suggesting it was a strategic maneuver to benefit insiders.

Notable Quotes:

• Kara Swisher: "Senator Chris Murphy posted on X that the meme coin sale was the most brazenly corrupt thing a president ever done." [32:58]
• Scott Galloway: "The Trump coin is grift on an entirely different dimension." [33:08]

---

5. President Trump's Tariff Strategy and Trade Policies

Timestamp: [37:34 – 43:03]

Kara and Scott critique President Trump's inconsistent tariff strategies, particularly his claim of making "200 deals on tariffs." They argue that his approach creates strategic uncertainty, benefiting no party and harming the U.S. economy. Scott emphasizes the importance of maintaining strong incentives against autocratic aggression, criticizing Trump's handling as counterproductive.

Notable Quotes:

• Kara Swisher: "He declared the tariff rate's unsustainable and needs to come down, showing clear chaos in his strategy." [42:58]
• Scott Galloway: "Strategic uncertainty is chaos. It's to put, you know, lipstick on a pig. This is a pig." [43:03]

---

6. EV Truck Competition and Slate Auto's Entry

Timestamp: [46:39 – 51:35]

The hosts discuss the evolving electric vehicle (EV) market, highlighting Slate Auto's new affordable American-made EV truck backed by Jeff Bezos. They compare it to Tesla's Cybertruck, praising Slate's practical design and customization options. Additionally, they note Volkswagen's overtaking of Tesla as Europe's top EV seller, signaling increased competition in the sector.

Notable Quotes:

• Kara Swisher: "A startup called Slate Auto, backed by Jeff Bezos and other investors, is launching a made-in-America EV truck with a starting price of $20k." [47:12]
• Scott Galloway: "I think the most impressive company in the world right now, I'm actually thinking of buying their stock, even though it's up 60% in the last year, is BYD." [50:39]

---

7. Digital Companions, AI, and Societal Impact

Timestamp: [55:02 – 61:30]

Kara raises concerns about digital companions developed by tech companies like Facebook and Google, which can engage users in romantic role-play, including minors. She criticizes the lack of safety measures, especially with celebrity voices being used, leading to potential misuse. Scott elaborates on the broader societal risks, arguing that AI-driven companionships exacerbate loneliness and contribute to negative behaviors, particularly among young men.

Notable Quotes:

• Kara Swisher: "You cannot have digital companions that kids can get near. And there can't be any holes in your wall if you're gonna do this." [57:41]
• Scott Galloway: "The biggest threat of AI is loneliness. It's going to convince more and more people they don't need to engage." [61:40]

---

8. Tribute to Pope Francis

Timestamp: [60:33 – 64:08]

In a poignant moment, Kara and Scott pay tribute to the late Pope Francis, sharing a reflective passage that underscores the unifying and compassionate moments witnessed in hospitals and the importance of human connection. The segment highlights the Pope's message of love, forgiveness, and the transient nature of life.

Notable Quote:

• Kara Swisher (reading): "[...] Respect yourself, respect others. Walk your own path, and let go of the path others have chosen for you. Respect. Do not comment, do not judge, do not interfere. Love more, forgive more, embrace more, live more intensely and leave the rest in the hands of the Creator." [60:06]

---

9. Light-Hearted Closing and Jokes

Timestamp: [64:18 – End]

The episode concludes with the hosts sharing humorous exchanges and jokes, reflecting their characteristic banter. They also mention upcoming episodes and encourage listeners to engage with the podcast.

Notable Quotes:

• Scott Galloway: "Come on, Kara. Every child knows that." [64:36]
• Kara Swisher: "He's back. A moment of beauty followed by a moment of horror." [64:44]

---

Conclusion

In this episode of Pivot, Kara Swisher and Scott Galloway navigate a complex landscape of tech earnings, political maneuvers, and emerging technologies. They offer incisive analysis on Alphabet's financial health, critique Trump's controversial policies and schemes, and explore the burgeoning competition in the EV market. Additionally, they address the societal implications of AI-driven digital companions and honor the legacy of Pope Francis. True to their style, the hosts balance serious discourse with personable interactions, providing listeners with a comprehensive and engaging overview of current tech and political issues.

Overall Notable Quote:

• Scott Galloway: "The biggest threat of AI is loneliness. It's going to convince more and more people they don't need to engage." [61:40]

Transcript

[Kara Swisher]

Support for this show comes from smartsheet. Your team is innovative. Your team is ready to achieve the impossible. Innovative teams use Smartsheet to defy expectations, spur growth, and make the impossible possible. Smartsheet is the work management platform that allows teams to automate workflows and seamlessly adapt as their work evolves. Whether you're managing projects or scaling operations, smartsheet gives you the tools to cut through the chaos and reach your team's full potential. With smartsheet, the extraordinary is just another day of work. Smartsheet work with flow. Visit smartsheet.com Vox today to learn more.

[Scott Galloway]

This podcast is supported by Google. Hi, I'm Dave, one of the product leads on Google Gemini. We just launched Gemini Canvas. It's my new go to for real time collaboration with Gemini. Write docs, edit code, get feedback in iterate, all in one new interactive space. From a blank slate to a built out prototype. My favorite part? Ask Gemini to leave feedback and suggestions just like you would with a teammate. Check it out for [e-mail] support for.

[Kara Swisher]

Today'S show comes from Chevrolet. Whether it's just a quick jaunt or a long journey, Chevy's all electric Equinox EV has you covered with a massive 17.7-inch diagonal touchscreen. And starting at around $34,995, you can hit the road and ford snacks. Equinox EV, a vehicle you know, a value to expect in a dealer right down the street. You can go EV without changing a thing. Learn [e-mail] Equinox EV the manufacturer's suggested retail price excludes tax, title, license, dealer fees and optional equipment Dealer sets final price. What is he eating? Oh, now he's licking his fingers. Gross. Hi everyone, this is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast network. I'm Kara Swisher.

[Scott Galloway]

And I'm Scott Galloway.

[Kara Swisher]

Scott, I went to the White House correspondent.

[Scott Galloway]

Oh, you went.

[Kara Swisher]

No, I didn't go to the dinner itself. There was parties.

[Scott Galloway]

I know you went to the parties.

[Kara Swisher]

I went to the parties. I didn't go to anything and I actually slept through one of the better parties. I came home after Tammy Hadded's party and was so tired I slept the rest of the night.

[Scott Galloway]

So what have you heard? What's the scuttlebutt from the insiders?

[Kara Swisher]

I will tell you actually, you know, it was supposed to be like, oh, the Trump people weren't there and oh, how terrible. Actually, it was much more enjoyable. It was like kind of when the tech Bros left San Francisco. And everything was better. Like, they sort of abandoned all the restaurants and everyone was like, oh, no. And it was much more pleasant. I have to say. It was nice. Let me. I'll go through it. I went to a dinner for the substack through with my agents, uta. That was interesting. I sat.

[Scott Galloway]

The substack party.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, we sat across a lot of hotties there. Nate Silver was there. Jim Acoste and Mehdi Hasan was there.

[Scott Galloway]

It was nice. The White House correspondence dinner I feel some affection for because it introduced me to. Who is my favorite comedian.

[Kara Swisher]

Oh, oh, what's her name? She was great. Michelle. Michelle.

[Scott Galloway]

Michelle Wolf. I think she's a genius. I think she's one of the great.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, they didn't have one this year, supposedly. It wasn't there because.

[Scott Galloway]

No, they didn't.

[Kara Swisher]

They dumped it.

[Scott Galloway]

She wrote, I love her. This quote, you guys gotta stop putting Kellyanne on your shows. All she does is lie. If you don't give her a platform and she has nowhere to lie. It's like that old saying, if a tree falls in the woods, how do we know Kellyanne Conway is under that tree? I'm not suggesting she gets hurt, just stuck. Just.

[Kara Swisher]

The Republicans were told to stay away. I did not have one Kellyanne Conway sighting. Usually she's at these things, swanning around, but she wasn't there. I'm trying to think what else was fun. I slept through the NBC party, so I slept all night. But the Tammy party was really fun. And I sat in a Corvette, which was cool. That was a cool car. Beautiful new Corvette. And saw the new Evie Escalade, which was gorgeous. Trying to think, what else? Oh, there was a CNN party, too. Oh, I'll tell you one story. So I'm at the CNN party. Mark Thompson's there, all the cnn, you know, all the various, you know, Wolf and et cetera, et cetera. And it was at the British Embassy, which has a new ambassador. And that's always a nice place. Cause it has a beautiful garden. It was a beautiful day. And I'm standing there, I was sort of like jawing with the Facebook PR people because of that story. We'll talk about that. Jeff Horowitz wrote in the Wall Street Journal about sexy bots, essentially, that are probably bothering children. And Joel Kaplan came up to me, the guy who's head of, you know, the big scary person of Facebook here in Washington, who's taken it sort of on a rightward shift or removed some moderation. And he came up to me, he said, I just want to thank you. Because I had talked about that. I didn't think what they said he did in that book. He did, which I continue to agree. And I said something like, well, if I'm going to hang hate you, I'm gonna hate you for the right things. Like essentially. But we had an interesting talk. It was interesting. He won't have lunch with me, though.

[Scott Galloway]

Really?

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah. I said, come on, don't be scared. I said, are you a man or a mouse? And he said, a mouse. And that was that. What can you say after that squeak? I don't know. I wanna have lunch with him.

[Scott Galloway]

So on the whole. Good, I'm glad. I'm glad you had a nice time.

[Kara Swisher]

Anyway, it was good. It was interesting to see some people and it was much more low key. So anyway, what did you do this weekend?

[Scott Galloway]

Thanks for asking. I had a really nice weekend. Yesterday was the kind of ideal day. I did this long workout with my son in Regents Park. And then last night, me and my youngest went and had to. There's this great little kind of street of restaurants right in Marylebone. And then we came home and we had like a dozen pork bao buns, which was awesome.

[Kara Swisher]

Oh, yum.

[Scott Galloway]

And he got Boba and I got a beer. And every third sip we would switch. Cause that made us feel both really naughty.

[Kara Swisher]

Oh, wow.

[Scott Galloway]

And then we went home and he's 14.

[Kara Swisher]

That's perfect. Good.

[Scott Galloway]

I think that's what we call child abuse.

[Kara Swisher]

But no, it's not. That's fine.

[Scott Galloway]

And then we went home and watched an episode and a half of Game of Thrones.

[Kara Swisher]

Are you still watching Game of Thrones?

[Scott Galloway]

It's eight seasons, Kara.

[Kara Swisher]

We'll be watching for a couple years.

[Scott Galloway]

We don't like seasons.

[Kara Swisher]

What disemboweling season are you on?

[Scott Galloway]

Ned Stark hasn't even had his head cut off yet. So I think we're still season one.

[Kara Swisher]

Who's the tall lady who plays the one who's all devoted to. Is it Ned Stark or one of the Starks?

[Scott Galloway]

Oh, no, lady. The knight or the knight in waiting?

[Kara Swisher]

Lady Brienne of Tarth.

[Scott Galloway]

Thank you. Brienne of Tarth. And actually there's so many. Game of Thrones is never fully recognized for how many wonderful love stories there are. The kind of. The love story between her and Jamie is really, really unexpected in that's what she loves.

[Kara Swisher]

She's committed to him. That's right.

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah.

[Kara Swisher]

I got out this disembowelment seisman. When they kept disemboweling people, I was like. And I really don't want to see this anymore. And then when they crushed beautiful Pedro Pascal's head, I didn't like, oh, that guy was. I did not know that was coming. I told you this. I was like, what? Like, I don't. I hate when that happens. When I'm like, oh, he's gonna get killed. I did not have any clue that that was what was gonna happen.

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah. I think the love story between Jon Snow and what's her name, the main lady, the wild. Oh, Yaret. I thought that was one of the nicest love stories in modern day television.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah.

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah, it was really nice.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah. I think they're married.

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah. In real life they're married.

[Kara Swisher]

In real life they're married. Yeah.

[Scott Galloway]

They're both so beautiful.

[Kara Swisher]

That's the story that continues. Yeah.

[Scott Galloway]

Oh, I forgot what. Also I did. I'm not allowed to talk about it, but I went and I saw this thing called Bum Bum Train. Have you heard of this thing?

[Kara Swisher]

No.

[Scott Galloway]

Oh, wow. You have to sign an NDA, but if you ever get the chance to do it, Go do was really incredible. What is.

[Kara Swisher]

Sounds like a gay bar, but go ahead. Bum Bum Train. Go ahead.

[Scott Galloway]

It's what I would call performance art or the closest analog. I don't want to give too much away, but. Did you ever go to sleep? No more in New York?

[Kara Swisher]

No.

[Scott Galloway]

You become. I'm not even sure I don't want to give it away other than to say it's one of the most unique experiences. And the thing I love about it is that it's about five or six hundred volunteers who help pull it off.

[Kara Swisher]

Oh, my God. That's cool.

[Scott Galloway]

It's really. It was very.

[Kara Swisher]

So London is feeling kind of fun. The weather's nice, right? The weather's turning nice. Correct.

[Scott Galloway]

I've experienced something today I haven't experienced in a year in London. No, I sweat. I took a run and I started sweating.

[Kara Swisher]

It's so beautiful there when it gets warm. It really is.

[Scott Galloway]

Oh, it's for 11 weeks a year. It's the greatest city in the world.

[Kara Swisher]

Beautiful Washington right now has been spectacular for weeks. I mean, just one beautiful tree, like explodes after another. Flowers everywhere. And this weekend was quite beautiful. It's just gorgeous out. And then it gets like a swamp. A complete swamp. Yeah, that's good. I'm glad you're liking the London. I gotta come to London and bother you. I gotta stay at your house, etc. Go through things.

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. We got our guest room that's deep in the basement.

[Kara Swisher]

Oh, excellent.

[Scott Galloway]

I like It I wanted to put in a door between the basement and the first floor to lock. Let me do it.

[Kara Swisher]

No, I can get that locked.

[Scott Galloway]

The in laws are in there now, so occasionally I just slip the pizza under the door and say, don't come out.

[Kara Swisher]

Nice, Nice. So May is coming. May is coming. We're almost into May, which is really nice. I'm going to San Francisco this weekend. Do you know what I'm getting?

[Scott Galloway]

And what are you doing out there?

[Kara Swisher]

I'm going on Bill Maher on Friday.

[Scott Galloway]

Are you doing the panel or are you the interviewer?

[Kara Swisher]

I'm the panel, but it's just me and Kevin McCarthy. I mean, of all people.

[Scott Galloway]

Oh, wow.

[Kara Swisher]

I know, right?

[Scott Galloway]

So two lesbians.

[Kara Swisher]

He was, he was excited. He was like. I was like the former dinggity dog is excited to be with Kara Swish. You're fine. All right, Kevin.

[Scott Galloway]

So literally A testicle with 0. A panel with zero testicles.

[Kara Swisher]

No, I have several.

[Scott Galloway]

There he goes.

[Kara Swisher]

I can lend them. Anyway. Anyway. All right, now wake up. We got a lot to get to.

[Scott Galloway]

I'm sorry. More energy.

[Kara Swisher]

More energy. Yes, that's correct. Okay.

[Scott Galloway]

I took his annex last night.

[Kara Swisher]

Did you? I can feel that. Okay. We got a lot to get to today, including Trump's latest meme coin scheme and the new affordable American made EV truck backed by Jeff Bezos. It's quite adorable. And again, I just saw the EV of the Escalade which I also thought was fantastic. It gets 466 miles to a charge, which is amazing. But first, Alphabet earnings are out. And Scott, it's time for another victory lap. You are hitting it on all cylinders as non energy.

[Scott Galloway]

That's right.

[Kara Swisher]

There you go. There you go.

[Scott Galloway]

That's why the people come here. That's why I make the big bucks.

[Kara Swisher]

That's right. The company Overall revenue grew 12% year over year, beating expectations. Overall advertising was up 8.5% from the previous year. And search and other reported over $50 billion, up 9.8%. Well done. Sundar Pichai AI overviews Alphabet's AI tool at the top of Google search page has 1.5 billion monthly users and Waymo is providing over 250,000 rides per week. I gotta say, Waymo is the quiet storm in a lot of ways in terms of being successful and useful to people. It's coming to Washington, supposedly. And Alphabet's first quarter profit was boosted by $8 billion in unrealized gains from investments in private company such as SpaceX. They make investments for people to understand. Listen to what you had to say last week before these earnings were out.

[Scott Galloway]

Alphabet's reporting, we're talking about Thursday. Alphabet's reporting at the end of the day. And I think rumors of Alphabet's struggles have been greatly exaggerated. I still think while ChatGPT is ascending dramatically and does present an existential threat to search, YouTube is just an absolute juggernaut. And you talk about Waymo. I just think this company is so well run and Google continues to be the largest toll booth in the history of mankind. I think that they're going to beat, and I think they're going to beat expectations this afternoon because I think some of those expectations have been beaten down.

[Kara Swisher]

Well done. Although I have to tell you, Scott, a lot of people are talking about these cases which they absolutely agree with you and I, that will be broken up and their stock will go up anyway. So Microsoft, Meta, Apple and Amazon are reporting later this week. Any predictions and any thought on Google?

[Scott Galloway]

I don't have predictions on the other ones. I'll save that for later in the week. But the, I mean, think about this. I think Alphabet still has room to run because if you look at Alphabet or let's look at the S and P, the S&P 500, the average. So take an average S and P company, I don't know, Dow or Proctor and Gamble like a good company. They're all great companies, but some are amazing and some are not so amazing. But the average S&P 500 company trades at a price earnings multiple of 27. Alphabet, which I would argue has more growth prospects and quite frankly it's just a more impressive company than 495 of the S&P 500. It trades at a multiple of 18. Now why is that? Why does Alphabet trade at a multiple that is a third lower than the average of the S and P? And I think it's because of the fear of the existential risk that AI presents. Right. But just keep in mind, as of today, Google search handles 373 times more searches than ChatGPT. So it's going to take a while. Right?

[Kara Swisher]

It's good there's a competitor. Let's be clear. There's never been a significant competitor to Google as yet. This is, you would say a significant competitor on some level, even if it's smaller.

[Scott Galloway]

Right. But even looking at diversification or how robust the business is, ChatGPT I think is projected to do 4 billion in revenues. Alphabet has five separate businesses that do more than 30 billion a year. And just to talk about just how incredible this company is, Google Cloud. Its operating margins hit 18%, up from nine and a half. Their margins almost doubled. In their cloud business, Waymo is really, as you said, starting to register potential. This was the first quarter in which Sunda answered a question directly about Waymo. Waymo is now serving a quarter of a million paid rides per week.

[Kara Swisher]

Yep, exactly. About 27 of them are buying. Whenever I'm in San Francisco, I'll be taking it when I get to San Francisco.

[Scott Galloway]

That's up fivefold from a year ago. YouTube. In just the last nine years, its revenue has quadrupled. And between YouTube Premium and Music, the platform now has over 100 million paid subscribers. It also commands 11% of all streaming watch time, which means it's the number one streaming platform. If you think of it as a social media company, it's the most popular social media company in the world. So this company is just. It has seven products and platforms with over 2 billion users. Search, Maps, Gmail, Android, Chrome, play store and YouTube. So Alphabet.

[Kara Swisher]

But we both think it should be broken up, right? Or it will be, correct?

[Scott Galloway]

Oh, I think all of these guys should be broken up. And here's the thing, this one in.

[Kara Swisher]

Particular has is under more pressure than any other company to be broken up.

[Scott Galloway]

They might be under my pressure, but I think, I think the company. I think the company society would benefit most from being broken up would be Meta. But anyways they. There's 11amazing companies that, that. The majority of which will be worth more than the original four companies that spin them. Apple, Amazon, Facebook and Meta. Or Apple, Amazon, Meta and Alphabet. Did I say that right? Apple, Amazon, Alphabet. I get that they change their name so fucking off into so. So they're going to give eight people the CEO title. These companies would all thrive on their own. But anyways, my point is going back to Alphabet. Alphabet is just an incredible company. I think Alphabet is arguably the most adult. I think they're.

[Kara Swisher]

Sundar.

[Scott Galloway]

I think Meta is probably the most visionary. Apple has the most robust supply chain. Amazon, Fuck. They're all so well run. It's hard to say.

[Kara Swisher]

Microsoft. Yeah, you don't. I think Sundar's often been thought of as an afterthought for sure. Like that he doesn't make. There was a whole spate of things. He can't make decisions to save his life that people were leaving. It's not innovative enough. It's too staid. I mean those were all the takes on him. And obviously these cases that they have lost to the federal government, I think they're going to Be a boon to them. I think it's actually not the worst thing in the world to have to do what they're going to probably have to do.

[Scott Galloway]

The most undervalued of all the tech companies, though, right now, I think, is in the US Market. I would say it's probably. It's probably Alphabet. Most overvalued would probably be OpenAI or Palantir. But the most. In my opinion, the most undervalued of the Magnificent Seven, and it's not in the Magnificent Seven, would be Alibaba. And the reason why is the following. You're going to see Alibaba's cloud unit start to take share from all the other cloud providers globally.

[Kara Swisher]

Oh, interesting.

[Scott Galloway]

Well, think about it. Do you want. Do you want Trump and the American administration with their hands on your data? Because the Chinese cloud.

[Kara Swisher]

Oh, this is sort of like your Europe one. Right. This is kind of like your.

[Scott Galloway]

That's exactly right. You're going to see a ton of European and Asian companies defect from AWS and Azure and Google Cloud to Baba Cloud. And Alibaba trades at a huge discount to Amazon. You're about to see an incredible regression. One of the most powerful forces in the universe, especially in the markets, is a regression to the mean. Chinese stocks trading at a multiple of 14, US stocks trading at a multiple of 26. So the best companies in China that are Amazonesque, Alibaba, are not only going to regress this naturally in terms of a multiple regression, but Alibaba is about to scoop up so much unearned business in the cloud.

[Kara Swisher]

A lot of people are moving to France. It's interesting. A lot of tech people I'm talking about is putting their stuff elsewhere. I had a long discussion with someone this weekend about that. Putting their stuff somewhere. And it's not moving their bodies, necessarily. Moving their data. Interesting.

[Scott Galloway]

Or their money.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, money.

[Scott Galloway]

Or I'll just. You know what, Listen, take a meeting with the head of Alibaba and let's talk about. We're Mercedes. Let's talk about putting our cloud there. We don't need to deal with these jerks. Send a signal. Copy the head of the Commerce Department. Copy that. Ask clown Lutnick on our memo saying we're switching from AWS to the Baba cloud.

[Kara Swisher]

He wouldn't even know what to do. Anyway. We have to move on. But those are all really good one, Scott. Very nice. I like it. Well, we'll see what happens there. Very quickly. FBI agents arrested a Milwaukee judge accused of obstructing justice for directing an undocumented immigrant in her courtroom to exit through the side door to avoid immigration agents. FBI Director Kash Patel posted a photo of the judge, Hannah C. Dugan in handcuffs, saying no one is above the law. Dugan has since been released from custody as unexpected, to be arraigned on May 15, which is soon. Meanwhile, three US citizen children under 10 have been deported with their mothers, including a four year old with stage four cancer. According to a recent Washington Post ABC Ipsos poll, 53% of Americans disagree of Trump's handling of immigration where he was winning. That's up from 48% in February. This was his signature issue. We'll talk about the polls for Trump, which are terrible right now, but this was the one where he was ironclad. A thought, very quick thoughts on this.

[Scott Galloway]

If you look at the polls and you try to be an honest broker, his signature issues he had a lot of support around. He had a mandate around immigration, he had a mandate around tariffs. He had a mandate around kind of DEI or wokeness, whatever you want to call it. But as my friend Dov Seidman wrote a book on this, it's not about what you do, it's how you do it. And he's really blown it because actually the majority of Americans believe you should deport people who are here illegally. However, should you deport a four year old with stage four cancer without, I mean, should you start rounding up people because of the wrong tattoo? Should you levy tariffs that basically neuter domestic businesses and are about to put a ton of small businesses out of business? And it's the majority of his policies actually, especially on the immigration side. He's a winner in especially over the Democrats who just stuck out this chin, the world's biggest chin in the world. But the problem is the way he's going about it. He's kind of, in my view, he's kind of blown it with just a few. And I'm not talking about what's right here or what I would have liked to have seen done, but purely politically. If he had just scaled back, people actually agree with Doge. But the way they've gone about it has been such overreach and the coarseness and the cruelty and quite frankly the incompetence and stupid stupidity.

[Kara Swisher]

They could doing victory laps without a victory.

[Scott Galloway]

He could Kara, the media and progressives could have their hair on fire and he could be one of the most popular presidents in history in the first hundred days.

[Kara Swisher]

But he's not.

[Scott Galloway]

If he had maintained these themes but handled them with a Little bit more caution, nuance and discipline and had smarter people executing these things.

[Kara Swisher]

He has people who say yes and to his bad base instincts. And so he's also older. I'm gonna start to really stress that I know all these books are coming about Biden, but he's older and so he's unfettered, he's addled and he does what he wants. And he has people around him who are incompetent or have a cruelty streak. Like Kash Patel. Kristi Noem standing in front of those people. I think everybody was uncomfortable with that photo of her in front of those. I don't care what those guys did. That was gross. That was grotesque. Dressed like an ice Barbie. Kash Patel, the way he talks about things. They have a Stephen Miller, forget it. Screaming on every TV station. I think you don't win by yelling at people and telling them they're stupid for finding deportation of a four year old with stage four cancer. And that Tom Holman, he seems like he's had a few all the time and he says stupid things almost continually. I mean the cruelty is really quite diminishing of your right popular programs. But this number of 48 to 53, he's underwater on his signature issue, which is really. I mean, that'll make other people act up against him anyway. We'll see what's gonna happen. I think it's gonna continue to rise. Cause I think he can't help himself. We'll see. He needs to pull back. If he did, he'd probably be popular again.

[Scott Galloway]

It would have been a few tweaks.

[Kara Swisher]

Right? Tweaks.

[Scott Galloway]

We love our PhD students, of course. Oh, this person is not a criminal. We apologize. We're gonna figure out where this person should be sent or broug to America.

[Kara Swisher]

You can't do it.

[Scott Galloway]

We immediately called Sloan Kettering and got this little girl. Help. I mean, show me someone who is willing to be this cruel. I'll show you someone who invokes the name of Jesus Christ every fucking minute. And if Jesus came back, he'd puke on these people.

[Kara Swisher]

Well, he was an immigrant, you know. Anyway, let's go on a quick break. When we come back, President Trump's switch up on Ukraine. This is sort of a shift. Support for pivot comes from upwork. Scaling your business requires the right expertise at the right time. And creating that perfect mix can help take your business to the next level. With upwork, you can find specialized freelancers in marketing, development, design and more experts who are ready to level up your business. And grow by accessing a global marketplace filled with top talent in it, web development, AI, design, admin support, marketing and more. Companies at every stage turn to upwork to get things done. Posting a job on upwork is easy with no cost to join, you can register, browse freelancer profiles, get help drafting a job post, and even book a consultation. From there you can connect with freelancers that get you and your business. Upwork makes the entire process easier, simpler and more affordable with industry low fees. Post a job today and hire tomorrow with Upwork. Visit Upwork.com right now to post your job for free. That is Upwork.com to post your job for free and connect with top talent ready to help your business business grow. That's up w o r k.com Upwork.com.

[Scott Galloway]

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[Kara Swisher]

Scott we're back. President Trump and Ukrainian President Zelensky met on the sidelines of the Pope Francis funeral this weekend to discuss the end of war. It was a very interesting visual. I thought it Was terrific visual, actually. And now President Trump appears to be on Ukraine's side. The US President afterwards posted on Truth Social, criticizing Russian President Vladimir Putin for recent missile attacks on Ukraine, saying, it makes me think that maybe he doesn't want to stop the war. Really, he's just tapping me along. Hmm. And this has to be dealt with differently through banking or secondary sanctions, whatever that is. On Sunday, Secretary of State Marco Rubio, who really looks like he's blinking for us to come save him, said administration will decide this week whether to continue pursuing a negotiated settlement of the war. Who do you think got in his ear about Russia here? It's really. It was kind of a shift. I thought that picture was kind of weirdly beautiful of him in this incredibly ornate setting, on these two simple chairs sort of leaning into each other in a really.

[Scott Galloway]

It was one of the images of the year.

[Kara Swisher]

I agree. I was sort of like, whoa, that's a great image.

[Scott Galloway]

But you know what it looked like? It looked like they were about to address the Senate on the planet of Naboo.

[Kara Swisher]

Anyway.

[Scott Galloway]

Were you expecting Natalie Portman to come out? I know.

[Kara Swisher]

So what do you think about this shift? Who got his ear? Who got his ear?

[Scott Galloway]

I think this is the issue, and I always say that, and then I go back to deficits. But what you have here is when Trump was asked, after they said, we need to. They both need to give up something and accept things they don't want. And Trump was asked, well, what is Putin supposed to give up? And he said, well, to stop the killing and stop the invasion. Now, think about that statement. What the President of the United States is saying to the world is that if you're an autocrat, you now have an incentive to invade and kill people because you gain something to give up. The whole point of pushing back, the whole point of NATO, the whole point of having an $800 billion military industrial complex, is we create a series of incentives that when you illegally invade a neighboring country and start shelling maternity wards, that you end up worse off. And what Trump and Vance are effectively saying is they're going to have to cede all the land to Russia and exchange. Russia will just stop its illegal, murderous activity. That is exactly what America is not supposed to be doing. And what got in his ear, I'd like to think some sanity that at the end of the day, the President is the world's largest capital allocator, the world's largest manager, trying to allocate capital to the greatest return possible, the greatest return in geopolitics is for 60 to 80 billion dollars, or 8 to 10% of our military budget. It we armed the brave Ukrainian army with the weapons to fight back on Russia such that they have to spend half a billion to a billion dollars a day to distract them from the surface area of attack against the US which they deploy in one of two ways. They either steal our IP or they cyber attack us. So keeping Russia distracted in Ukraine. And I know this is macabre, and I know this ignores the incredible human sacrifice, but if we're going to just talk about rail politic, this is the best money we've ever spent. And until Russia, until we show other autocrats who are thinking about invading South Korea or invading Taiwan, until we give them a clear signal there is incentive not to do it. Meaning you are worse off when you do this. Not better off. The world is less safe.

[Kara Swisher]

Is there a person you think got in his head?

[Scott Galloway]

I don't know, Kara. I don't know. I don't know who this guy listens to other than Peter Navarro. The best thing that could happen for our economy is if someone chained Peter Navarro to his bar. I mean, in his room. The worst thing that could happen to our economy is every time you see Peter Navarro anywhere near the President go short the market. I don't know what Secretary Rubio. But the thing about Secretary Rubio is I literally think he'll say just anything.

[Kara Swisher]

Anything. Right. I agree. Anything. Anything. Yeah. That'll get him. He wants to put himself position himself for the presidential race, obviously.

[Scott Galloway]

What do you think?

[Kara Swisher]

I think he understands he got taken and he needs a win. And there's no winning with Vladimir Putin. And I think he understands that maybe he doesn't care about whatever with that relationship anymore. I think they kept bombing when they said they weren't. So why wasn't he listening to me? I thought I had control. And he's gotta do. He said he was gonna do it on day one, if you remember. Settle the war. I mean, he had some promise. He's gotta settle it. And so I think backing Ukraine is the best way to do that. I mean, it's the only way to Punching a bully in the nose, as a bully like Trump would know is the best way to do it. We'll see. I just was really struck by it. We'll see if he can. He could change next. Yeah. Guess tomorrow, like, who knows? That's the problem here. The flippity. Flippity.

[Scott Galloway]

But look at what Zelenskyy's done. And it's a great lesson and that is, Zelensky hasn't gotten emotional.

[Kara Swisher]

He's shown up.

[Scott Galloway]

He's shown up. He's kissed his ass. He's just tried to be very resolute and calm and dignified. And just a quick review here, folks. We spend $60 billion a year. Almost all of that comes back to America, and almost all of that goes into red states. And in exchange, we're going to get incredible drone technology. We're unifying Europe. I mean, we're sending a very strong signal to the rest of the world. And if we take all of that money and just give Russia everything they've wanted, we're basically saying, okay, it's a go sign. It's green light for any autocrat that wants to invade.

[Kara Swisher]

That's right. And also that someday Ukraine is going to be one of those countries tech forward, exciting place to invest, exciting place for us capitalists to be. It is a wonderful economy in that regard. It's just getting the shit beat out by a bunch of people who are not a wonderful economy. So it is a real opportunity to back Ukraine from a financial point of view, from what Scott was saying. And in the future, anyway, we're going to move on. Speaking of now, the other side of Donald Trump. His official meme coin skyrocketed after announcement that the top 220 holders of the coin would get invited to dinner with the president. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. What? Corruption in plain sight. Steve Ratner wrote a great piece about this, by the way. This week, the initial price surge was over 50%, boosting the coin's total market value to $2.7 billion. With Trump and his allies reportedly pocke close to $900,000 in trading fees in two days. In trading fees, Senator Chris Murphy posted on X that the meme coin sale was the most brazenly corrupt thing a president ever done. I think pretty much so. And Senators Adam Schiffs and Elizabeth Warren are calling for an ethics investigation, saying this dinner might constitute a pay to play corruption. I think it doesn't constitute it. I think if he loses the house in two years, this is all we're gonna be talking about. You have talked a lot about this meme coin. And then speaking of ask us, I'm gonna add this on Donald Trump jun with Omid Malik. I think that's his name, anyway. Several other investors are reportedly launching an invite only club in D.C. that costs more than a half a million dollars to join. The executive branch will cater to business and tech models looking to nurture relations with Trump Administration, according to Politico. This one just sounds douchey, but I don't have a problem with it. They can have their little clubs to meet at and do their like, man things there if they want. But talk about the second one I don't think is corruption. I just think the Democrats have it too. There's always been clubs, there's always been this kind of thing. It just is extra douchey is all thoughts on the coin and the club?

[Scott Galloway]

I'm exactly where you are. I believe in the right of free assembly. And if Don Jr. Wants to get people together and charge him, that's his right. And by the way, that's kind of what lobbyists do. It's like lobbying with a party. I don't have a problem with it.

[Kara Swisher]

They can go to a steak place or this place.

[Scott Galloway]

Fine.

[Kara Swisher]

Who cares?

[Scott Galloway]

Fine. The Trump coin is grift on an entirely different dimension. And let's just talk about the timing. He announced the Trump coin the Friday night before his inauguration when there was just a media maelstrom. And he buried it right, because he knew that the market would go. This is incredibly corrupt. There were about 30 people who made about 6 or $800 million according to logs in those first few hours. And my guess is those 30 people might have been tipped off or been really close to the president because they clearly had a lot of money and they were clearly in first. And then over the course of next few weeks, about 80,000 people lost billions because it spiked. The insiders got out. Then let's talk about more timing. He decides that about the time that the lockup is going to come up, and that is the insiders, the people who started to get to sell. He decides one to have a meeting, you know, to announce this meeting to distract people and get the, get the price back up. And shortly before that, he announced that he was doing away with the DOJ unit that investigates crypto scams. So this is really. I wish, I wish he approached geopolitics and tariff policy with the same strategy he approached his, his grift. Because the grift has been the most competent, elegant part of the Trump administration. He is strategic. He is thoughtful. His timing is excellent. The brightest people in the Trump administration are the grifters, are the people handling. They're bearing the stories at the exact right moment. They're neutering the investigators of time.

[Kara Swisher]

They're experienced grifters.

[Scott Galloway]

Go ahead. They're very good at this. But this is, again, it's just very simple. If you found out that Vladimir Putin had been buying hundreds of millions or billions in Trump coin and saying to Trump, you're gonna be the wealthiest man ever as long as we keep buying. By the way, in unrelated news, what are your thoughts on Ukraine? Wouldn't all of this make sense? And that might not be true, but the whole point of the President and our elected officials is you're not supposed to have that doubt, that cloud of corruption over them. And just because I want to move to a solution, I absolutely think we need to move to a Singaporean model. I think the president should make 10 million bucks a year. I think senators should make 3 million and representatives should make a million dollars a year. And in exchange for that, that absolutely nothing resembling correction speaker amateur Pelosi. You can't trade stocks. You cannot. When you're voted out of office, there's a three year sunshine period. You can't go to work for a lobbyist. You can never talk about an individual company, for God's sakes. You can't get involved in. None of your family members can start a crypto company. Zero tolerance corruption. But we're going to pay you a lot of money because all they're doing now with can we hit them with.

[Kara Swisher]

A cane when they do it? What like that they do in Singapore.

[Scott Galloway]

Well, but to be fair, when you're making $185,000, which is what our congress people make and they have to support two homes, the opportunity and they see everyone else engaged in grift, the seduction of grift just becomes too great. So pay them a lot of money. These are important, impressive people who have a big impact on our economy. Pay them a lot of money. Zero tolerance. And if you propose that, that I think they would pass it.

[Kara Swisher]

I don't know. I don't know. People would go, why are we paying the congressman a million?

[Scott Galloway]

No, the congressman people would pass it. They get to vote on it.

[Kara Swisher]

I don't think they would. They want to show you don't think.

[Scott Galloway]

They said, all right, a million bucks?

[Kara Swisher]

No, I think from the perception, I think people will be like, why are you getting a million dollars for that job? Like, what in the hell? I'm just saying it's going to be a very difficult political thing to pull off.

[Scott Galloway]

But if they all did it at once, are they going to vote all at once?

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, they don't do anything all at once. It's just such a good thing for like a Marjorie Taylor Greene to say. Cause she makes all this grift on the side. Speaking of grift she had a big stock sales. Yeah, I agree with you.

[Scott Galloway]

I agree with you on her stock sale. She didn't do anything that Pelosi hasn't done dozens of times.

[Kara Swisher]

Correct. But if you're gonna insult Pelosi, please belly up to the fucking Grif bar if you don't mind.

[Scott Galloway]

Agreed.

[Kara Swisher]

All right, let's go on a quick break. We come back, Trump claims he's made 200 deals on tariffs. They're kissing my ass. Foreign.

[Scott Galloway]

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[Kara Swisher]

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[Scott Galloway]

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[Kara Swisher]

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[Scott Galloway]

Excludes Hawaii.

[Kara Swisher]

Scott we're back. As President Trump marks 100 days in office, 64% of Americans disapprove of how he's handling the tariffs, according to that new ABC News Washington Post Ipsos poll. It's one of many that are pointing in these directions. Trump is now saying he's made 200 deals on tariffs in an interview Time magazine. He also keeps claiming to have spoken with China's President Xi, who knows China denies any talks are happening and said the US should stop creating confusion. I'm believing China on this one. Treasury Secretary Scott Besant was on ABC's this Week where he tempted to explain Trump's tariff strategy. This was so painful to watch. Listen.

[Scott Galloway]

And game theory is called strategic uncertainty. So you're not going to tell the person on the other side of the negotiation where you're going to end up. And nobody's better at creating this whole leverage than President Trump. He's shown these the high tariffs and it's here's the stick. This is where the tariffs can go and the carrot is come to us. Take off your tariffs, take off your non tariff trade barriers, stop manipulating your currency, stop subsidizing labor and capital and then we can talk.

[Kara Swisher]

Oh my God. Scott. Scott. It's like sticking your your eye with a dry stick and saying we won. Like what? Like this was like. It's chaos. I just don't strategic. You do strategic uncertain to me all the time Scott. And I find it irritating. That's all I have to say. Thoughts, thoughts, thoughts.

[Scott Galloway]

I'm fascinated by game theory.

[Kara Swisher]

I agree.

[Scott Galloway]

I teach a class on game theory and this could not be. This is their go to. It's the general script that they all have to follow. Couch everything and what a genius Trump is. And also chess. That's right. Claim he's playing 20D chess. Claim he's playing 4D chess. And the reality is the world thinks there's a decent chance this man child is going to start eating the pieces. He's such a fucking idiot. And I don't know. Let's look at our three largest trading partners and I'm boasting about I'm name dropping now but without name dropping. Our three largest trading partners are Canada, then Mexico, then China. In the last week I have I interviewed the Prime Minister of Canada.

[Kara Swisher]

The soon to probably be today by the way.

[Scott Galloway]

Well he's Prime Minister now and he's probably gonna be reelected because of Trump today. Because the opposition of The Conservative Party.

[Kara Swisher]

25 points they were has overcome a 25 point deficit.

[Scott Galloway]

Anyways.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah.

[Scott Galloway]

Anyways. By the way this guy probably has the most impressive resume in global politics.

[Kara Swisher]

I kind of want to marry him. I think he's married.

[Scott Galloway]

Prime Minister Carney. He is dreamy. He's always very nice, he's thoughtful. Anyway is I asked him straight up are you talking to the administration? He said no.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah.

[Scott Galloway]

So Canadians, the Canadians literally they can't. It's difficult for them to lie. They're just not good at it. It's like if I asked Brian Adams or you know, Alan Thick the most personal things they would they I just get the sense they'd give you a straight answer. I don't think he's lying. On Saturday night, I was with the CEO of one of the largest Chinese companies in the world. And in China, and I said, do you have any sense for if the CCP or Xi is Talking to the U.S. he's like, I have a very strong sense. And the answer is, they're not talking. Their attitude is, yeah, bring it, boss. We've taken on much worse. There's no dialogue. So two of the three largest trading partners are not, unless these people are lying to me, have no dialogue with Trump. They're just letting him flail around, writhe and scream on the ground like a three year old and saying, yeah, have at it. Cry and scream and negotiate against yourself. This is the same guy, speaking of 3D chess who imposed 145% tariff on Monday and then on Friday said, the tariff rate's unsustainable and it needs to come down.

[Kara Swisher]

Right. He's just. You the one that talk about Bessant here. Like, what is he doing?

[Scott Galloway]

He's in an impossible position.

[Kara Swisher]

He's not impossible. He doesn't have to take nonsense.

[Scott Galloway]

He's fallen into the same trap as Gary Cohen and all these guys. And they, there's a called. When you're called to serve, you can understand that. You go, Rubio wants to go because he wants to be more presidential and then announce his presidency in about two years and 11 months, his candidacy again. These guys all think this is an unbelievable opportunity and I'm gonna be the one that pulls things off his desk and can convince him. And also I've heard when you talk to Trump in person, he comes across as remarkably sane. So they all go in, I think with the false illusion they're gonna be able to make a difference and talk some sense into this guy. Cause when you people who know Howard Lutnick, they say the following. Nice guy, he's an ass in terms of these decisions and is way over his head. When you talk to people about Scott Besant, they say, very intelligent guy. People are very impressed with him. But the question is, and a lot of people acknowledge this, including Bill Clinton, that is the only way you can have influence is to maintain your job or get elected. And sometimes you have to do things you don't want to do. But Scott Besant is, I think he goes home at night and literally looks in the mirror and says, I hate myself and none of this makes any fucking sense. And he's like, I have to go on and defend the indefensible.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah. He cries into his cashmere pillows. I can see that. You want you to see it. All right, we're gonna move on in a second. But the words strategic uncertainty is chaos. That's their word they're using. And it's to put, you know, lipstick on a pig. This is a pig. No matter how you slice it like that is if you want to slice a pig. In any case, what a disaster. By the way, fast fashion giant that Scott likes, Shein, is already hiking prices as high as 377%. So instead of a dollar, it costs $4.

[Scott Galloway]

Well, just. And just, you know, some of the companies. For example, we were talking about Alibaba earlier. Do you know what percentage of Alibaba's business is done in the U.S. not much. I bet 2%.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah.

[Scott Galloway]

So you think they're scared?

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah.

[Scott Galloway]

And the thing about Sheehan is big here. Sheen is big here. But. But. But what's interesting about it is the following. The math that people fail to do is like, oh, it'll really hurt them. And then Shein. And then she will get nervous. So Shein is not doing well. Even though Shein claims to be a Singaporean company, their supply chain is in China. They employ a lot of people in China. So, oh, we're gonna intimidate them and scare them because their products are gone up. Okay, let's do the math. Math. Shein's whole value proposition is I can get you, or they can get you a $10 reasonable facsimile of a cashmere sweater. Then get. Get it. They can import it in for 10 bucks because of their supply chain. Whereas Ralph Lauren, when they import something in from China, it costs them 60 or say 50. Generally speaking, a retailer kind of triples it. So it goes from 10 to 30 bucks. If the 145% tariff goes from that takes it from 10 to 24 bucks. So then it needs to go to 72. The $50 sweater that comes into Ralph Lauren goes from 50 to 100. And what is that? 45%? 125. So that goes to $375. So the question is, do these less expensive products. The whole market shrinks, but I would argue the cheaper stuff from China ends up taking share. So the economy goes down. Down. Because the price differential on cheaper goods broadens between the more expensive goods. So what happens? The economy goes down, spending goes down. But I wonder if some of those less expensive Chinese products actually end up grabbing share from the American companies that are bringing in China. Chinese products so it's like the worst of both worlds for American companies.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, it's just a mess. Anyway, speaking of another interesting thing, we haven't talked about Elon in a while. He's been very quiet. He's not wielding his chainsaw, as I noted. I saw the Escalade ev, which I thought was a very impressive car. But another one, again, Cybertruck could have been a terrific, beautiful car and it turned out to be a lemon. And it's a disaster for Tesla, quite a big disaster. A startup called Slate Auto, backed by Jeff Bezos and other investors is launching a made in America EV truck with a starting price of 20k, inexpensive after federal tax credits. The Slate struck design is pretty basic. No power windows, no infotainment screen, no paint. People will get custom wraps. You can also change it and you can make put a back on it. It can be a pickup, it can do a number of different things. It's really quite. I love the idea of it. It's a lot like Zoox, which he also has, where you can customize it very much. It gets about 150 miles of range on a charge. The car is designed in California and Michigan, will be manufactured in the Midwest with domestically sourced parts. Very. It's like a LEGO car. It looks like Slate plans to start deliveries in late 2026. I bet they will. I bet they'll actually do what they say as opposed to what Tesla always does. Over in Europe, VW overtook Tesla as a top EV seller for the first three months of 2025. That's a big deal. Their car is an ID4, I think it's called. I want to buy it so badly I can't even stand it. I don't care how much it costs. It's so great looking and looks terrific and well made. All these EV companies, I've seen more and more, not just BYD and there's in Japan, but so much competition, so many beautiful cars which are fun and interesting and at so many different price points. And EV sales are up along with hybrid sales. So again, another thing Tesla could have done and had the market and losing it because they had to indulge in his cybertruck fantasies. So any quick thoughts?

[Scott Galloway]

I love the new Rivian car. I mean the automobile industry is, is a case study in economics around fixed costs and that is to build an assembly line or to build a platform. All right, we want to build an suv. It costs so much money to build a platform that it's all about scale. You got to just shove a shit Ton of cars down that assembly line. So what do they do? Volkswagen says, okay, we're building a platform for SUVs. And about 80% of the way down the assembly line they shove a Volkswagen Torque, a Porsche, Porsche Cayman and an Audi Q7. They're all on the same assembly line. And then the last 10 or 20% of the assembly line, they take different routes and the Porsche gets much higher end leather and badging and a better stereo. And then once it's off the assembly line, they get a different ad agency to appeal to men in midlife crisis. The Tour gets an ad agency for families. The Audi gets someone who thinks they're a little bit more Euro, whatever it might be. But they've got to shove as many cars down that assembly line for scale as possible. And basically Rivian's saying, okay, we've got to come out with a lower cost product and shove as many cars down that assembly line. I think the most impressive company in the world right now, I'm actually thinking of buying their stock, even though it's up 60% in the last year, is BYD. I think this company is going to ultimately trade barriers come down because people are more greedy than they are concerned about their fellow citizens or whatever it is argument you want to make around tariffs or trade protectors. The world ultimately is up and to the right around free trade. It just makes sense for everybody. It's just everybody, everybody wants cheaper grapes and more toys under the tree than they are worried about. Joe, who's a union guy over the long term. And BYD is literally just, if you look at their products relative to the cost they're putting out a car right now. If we didn't have any trade barriers, you could get a really, really good EV for less than $10,000. Can you imagine how many of those things they would sell in America?

[Kara Swisher]

Yep. Absolutely. Yep.

[Scott Galloway]

Anyway, I, I, and not only that, everyone keeps talking, I mean this ridiculous notion about humanoid robots at Tesla. Yeah. You want to see the most unbelievable robots? Go to a factory in China.

[Kara Swisher]

Yep.

[Scott Galloway]

And see the robotics there. I mean, Tim Cook said this, he said the misconception of China is it's a bunch of low cost wage labor and factories doing, you know, tedious work. Work. You go into these factories. It's something out of Westworld. So they've already got robotics and humanoids doing incredible things. Anyway, there's a ton of companies, but unfortunately or fortunately, Volkswagen has unbelievable scale and now they're selling the most EVs in Europe. And you just want to Shove as many cars down that fixed cost assembly line. And the one I think that's going to be become the automobile and innovation company of the next five years is going to be byd.

[Kara Swisher]

But let me just say all the car companies really have exciting cars. They're offering all of them in some ways, and they'll either be popular or not, but impressive. I mean, you put the Cybertruck next to these and it's such a fail on behalf of Tesla to have had the lead here and it could have been innovative. He just doesn't want to be in the car company. And then he's bragging about Robo taxis, which Waymo is doing beautifully. And then he's talking about the Optimus prime, which nobody wants to have a robot in their house right now. It's just not happening. Maybe someday, but this idea like these, they're indulging.

[Scott Galloway]

I need someone to yell at. I can't believe you forgot to take the roast out of the freezer.

[Kara Swisher]

Exactly. But you know what? They're indulging in this guy's weird fantasies. They never should have done the Cybertruck. Never. There was so much opportunity for him to do a big, big killer Escalade, killer Ford, you know, a truck killer. And he just didn't do it. Didn't do it. Had to create this weird thing. Not a woman would never buy. And the only men that would buy it are dickless.

[Scott Galloway]

Well, you know why robots don't have brothers?

[Kara Swisher]

Why? Oh, no.

[Scott Galloway]

Because they have transistors.

[Kara Swisher]

That's good, right? One more quick break. That's a good one. We'll be back for wins and fails.

[Scott Galloway]

This episode is brought to you by Lifelock. Not everyone is careful with your personal information, which might explain why there's a victim of identity theft every five seconds in the U.S. fortunately, there's LifeLock. LifeLock monitors hundreds of millions of data points a second for threats to your identity. If your identity is stolen, a US based restoration specialist will fix it, guaranteed. Or your money back. Save up to 40% your first year by visiting. Visiting lifelock.com podcast terms apply. Cabs are here. How does someone go from reality TV fame to prison to multimillionaire business owner? This week on Net Worth and chill. I'm talking to Mike the Situation Sorrentino, who skyrocketed to fame on Jersey Shore, earning millions before it all came crashing down. Tax evasion, prison time, addiction battles. Mike is rebuilding his wealth with purpose and helping the people and communities that lifted his him up during his darkest days.

[Kara Swisher]

I believe that you are the writer.

[Scott Galloway]

Director and producer of your life. And if you want a better outcome.

[Kara Swisher]

Then you need to make it.

[Scott Galloway]

So listen wherever you get your podcasts or watch on YouTube.com YourRichBFF On March 12, Kilmar Abrego Garcia was picked up by ICE in Prince George's County, Maryland. In the days that followed, he was deported to the country where he was born, Warren, El Salvador. Except this time, he wound up in its infamous Sicot prison. At Sicot, they don't let any of.

[Kara Swisher]

The prisoners have access to the outside world.

[Scott Galloway]

On March 31, the Trump administration said it had mistakenly deported Abrego Garcia, calling it an administrative error. On April 4, a U.S. district judge told the Trump administration to have Abrego Garcia back in the United States by April 7. On April 10, the Supreme Court entered the chat and more or less agreed, saying the Trump administration needed to get Abrego Garcia back. But it's April 23rd and he's still not back on today. Explained. We're going to speak with the Maryland senator who sat down with Abrego Garcia in El Salvador last week and figure out how this legal standoff between the Trump administration and the courts might play out.

[Kara Swisher]

Okay, Scott, here's some. Let's hear some wins and fails. I think I'll go first today. There's a story in the Wall Street Journal. Again, I argued with meta people this weekend at these parties called digital companions. They have the ability to engage in romantic role play with users, including kids. According to a Wall Street Journal article, Mark is the one pushing it through to be more aggressive. I've talked to a lot of people internally at Facebook. They've been trying to keep him from doing that and to be very safety conscious around these things. Very similar to Character AI, which was an offshoot of Google. People went off and did it, and Google's now licensing it. And a lot of kids, one kid killed himself. Exc. Just these. You cannot have digital companions that kids can get near. And there can't be any holes in your wall if you're gonna do this. I have no problem with. I don't have a problem with these digital companions and being romantic. They cannot get near certain people. And it should be like the fact that the Wall Street Journal was able to get them to do this. And also they also have celebrity voices for these things. And they start to get. Apparently John Cena got sexy with someone. He didn't wanna get sexy with them, but he did. And so if you're gonna do this stuff, you've gotta have it locked the fuck down. And the fact that they haven't is just a typical. And Mark is pushing it through and there's a lot of pressure, et cetera, et cetera. I think I'm just astonished that they continue to build things without the level of care they need to. It's just maybe I shouldn't be surprised, but it's really amazing that they keep doing so. It's such a fail. It's such an astonishing fail. And I think probably my positive this week, there's a lot of stuff coming out. I'll be talk the next Mission Impossible soon and other things that are coming out. Looks like some great movies this summer. But I have to say I think this carney in Canada is playing it beautifully. I assume he's gonna win tonight and he looks like he's on track to win. And what a comeback for the Liberals. And changing their candidate is what they did. They've been in charge for a long time. I don't think any country should have one party in charge for. For too long. But he seems to be a fresh new face when he's not a fresh new face. So it gives a lot of lessons to Democrats in terms of finding a fresh new face even when you're not fresh. So I'm really. We'll see what happens. And then very briefly, there's a big outage of power in Spain and Portugal and I hope good luck to the people there as it's happening. And of course we have to think about a cyber attack in situations like this. But they're having it right now. And it's really. This is going to happen more in the future. Future. Just.

[Scott Galloway]

Scott, I love your fail and I do believe that this requires some sort of legislation because I think one of the biggest threats to our society is a lack of companionship and love and mating that turns people, especially young men, into misogynists and nationalists and extremists and also suicidal. I keep. I see all these tiktoks about about. And it's heartbreaking about women talking about why would they go on a date when they might go out with someone that murders them. And I understand that men are more violent and I think it's a real issue. And I can understand and it breaks my heart to think that women aren't safe around men. But the reality is 2,500 women are murdered by men a year and that's way too many. And they're usually domestic partners or someone they know. 40,000 men kill themselves. So these Men are not only dangerous to society and dangerous to women, but especially dangerous to themselves. Themselves. And the question is, well, why are we creating these violent men who are prone to just information that turns them into shitty citizens, makes them more disparaging of women and much more harmful to others and especially harmful to themselves? And I think part of that is they're mammals and they're losing connection with other people. And when you have the deepest pocketed, most well resourced companies in the world all trying to convince these men they can have a reasonable facsimile of life on a screen with an algorithm, we're making the problem worse. And I've said that I think wanting to have friends, wanting to go through the pecking order, the humiliation of figuring out friendships, wanting to figure out how hard it is and to navigate the corporate world, I think that can turn you into a better person, especially a better man. These guys don't mature very early. And also that fire, that real fire of sexual desire fire, I think when channeled correctly, makes you stronger, more kind. Demonstrate excellence, have a plan. You know, there's a reason I've said this over and over. There's a reason romantic comedies are two hours, not 15 minutes. And that this shit is hard, but it's worth it. And anything that convinces even more young men that they don't need to go through the difficult and rewarding and worthwhile effort of establishing human connection with other sentient beings is a threat to our society.

[Kara Swisher]

I would agree. But if they're gonna do it, they have to do it safely. Like, honestly.

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah, but my question is if it's one thing to give seniors companions who are in their 90s and have lost all their loved ones.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, I'd like to have one for my mother, I'll be honest with him.

[Scott Galloway]

But should we have. Should we have or maybe tax the shit out of them? I don't know. Should we have AI sex robots that convince all men to think that, oh, I don't need to be kind to women, I don't need to have.

[Kara Swisher]

They're gonna make em, Scott, whether you like it or not. They're gonn. Cause it's these guys, they can't have children and they desperately want to have children in a weird, strange, fucked up way.

[Scott Galloway]

Who are you talking about? The men.

[Kara Swisher]

I think sometimes I think AI, I told you this theory. I think AI is the way it gets so dominated by men and there's so lack of safety and everything else. They said it's because I think men can't have Children. Certain men, not all of them think this way, but can't have children. This is their way of giving birth or something, or creating.

[Scott Galloway]

I never thought about that.

[Kara Swisher]

Think about it. Fuck you.

[Scott Galloway]

But are you saying incel culture or the people who run.

[Kara Swisher]

No, I think the people that run some of these companies, they can't make beings. It's a very beautiful thing to make a child. Men and women make them together, obviously. But really, women grow children, right? And this is men's way of growing things, growing beings. I don't. Anyway, go ahead with you.

[Scott Galloway]

It's such a dystopian weird.

[Kara Swisher]

No, it is, it is. Think about it. Think about it.

[Scott Galloway]

But I hear this stuff. Everybody, everyone talks. I do a lot of talks on AI and they talk about, oh, they're going to be. I'm sentient, self healing, weapons, misinformation. Hands down, the biggest threat of AI is loneliness.

[Kara Swisher]

Loneliness, you're right.

[Scott Galloway]

It's going to convince more and more people they don't need to engage. My win is a little bit longer. And I know you're probably interviewing the ghost of Boutros Boutros Gali, but you're going to have to put up with me. So my Pope, he's very handsome, but go ahead. So after the Pope passed, there was something that was attributed to him. I don't know if he said it, but I think it's lovely and I'm going to read it anyway anyways. The walls of hospitals have heard more honest prayers than churches. They have witnessed far more sincere kisses than those in airports. It is in hospitals that you see a homophobe being saved by a gay doctor, a privileged doctor saving the life of a beggar. In intensive care, you see a Jew taking care of a racist, a police officer and a prisoner in the same room receiving the same care, a wealthy patient waiting for a liver transplant, ready to receive the organ from a poor donor. It's in these moments when the hospital touches the wounds of people that different worlds intersect according to divine discip design. And in this communion of destinies, we realize that alone, we are nothing. The absolute truth of people, most of the time only reveals itself in moments of pain or in the real threat of an irreversible loss. A hospital is a place where human beings remove their masks and show themselves as they truly are in their purest essence. This life will pass quickly, so do not waste it fighting with with people. Do not criticize your body too much. Do not complain excessively. Do not lose sleep over bills. Make sure you hug your loved Ones. Do not worry too much about keeping the house spotless. Material goods must be earned by each person. Do not dedicate yourself to accumulating an inheritance you are waiting for. You are waiting far too much. Christmas, Friday next year, when you have money, when love arrives, when everything is perfect. Listen. Perfection does not exist. A human being cannot attain it, because we are simply not made to be fulfilled here. Here we are given an opportunity to learn. So make the most of this trial of life and do it now. Respect yourself, respect others. Walk your own path, and let go of the path others have chosen for you. Respect. Do not comment, do not judge, do not interfere. Love more, forgive more, embrace more, live more intensely and leave the rest in the hands of the Creator.

[Kara Swisher]

Wow.

[Scott Galloway]

Anyways, Pope Francis, rest in peace.

[Kara Swisher]

That was beautiful.

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah, I cried everything.

[Kara Swisher]

I know, but it's my favorite, Scott. Just so you know.

[Scott Galloway]

Just turn on Modern Family. You'll see Waterworks.

[Kara Swisher]

That was beautiful. That was beautiful, Scott. Let's embrace and I see you next time. Okay? Let's just embrace for a whole minute and a half.

[Scott Galloway]

Or if Emily Ratajkowsky gets married again.

[Kara Swisher]

To you, not to you.

[Scott Galloway]

There's still time.

[Kara Swisher]

There is still time. There is a time.

[Scott Galloway]

There's still time.

[Kara Swisher]

Anyway, that was beautiful, Scott Galloway. And I appreciate that you brought it here. Anyway.

[Scott Galloway]

Well, you know what a pre scrotum looked like.

[Kara Swisher]

Oh, no, here we go. You're gonna ruin it. Go ahead.

[Scott Galloway]

Come on, Kara. Come on, Kara. Every child knows that.

[Kara Swisher]

Oh, my God.

[Scott Galloway]

Just. He's back.

[Kara Swisher]

He's back. A moment of beauty followed by a moment of horror. Okay, I didn't see. I didn't see. I didn't see that coming. Anyway, so it's a new joke. Thank you for the scrotum joke. We want to hear from you. Send us your questions. You have good jokes today about business, tech, or whatever's on your mind. Go to nymag.com pivot to submit a question for the show or call 855-51-Pivot. Elsewhere in the Kara and Scott universe, this week I talked to comedic actor Ed Helms for the on with Kara Switcher show. I named members of the Trump administration and asked Ed to match each of them with a character in the Office where he starred for so many years. Such a great. Such a great guy. He's been in tons of things like the ha. He also has a really cool podcast about snafu about fuck ups over the many centuries. Let's listen to a clip. Pete Hegseth. Okay.

[Scott Galloway]

Pete Hegseth would be a little like Packer.

[Kara Swisher]

Someone thinks Meredith, actually, because alcoholism.

[Scott Galloway]

Oh, interesting.

[Kara Swisher]

J.D. vance. J.D.

[Scott Galloway]

Vance is a little Dwightish. I think he's a little Dwight shot.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, absolutely. Kash Patel.

[Scott Galloway]

Oh, what was Zach Wood's character? There's something about something there, like intense loyalty, subscribing to a hierarchy with dedication and like actually being well spoken in the midst of all of that.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, Gabe, Gabe, Gabe.

[Scott Galloway]

Of course.

[Kara Swisher]

He's really delightful. Okay, that's the show. Thanks for listening to Pivot and be sure to like and subscribe to our YouTube channel. We'll be back on Friday. Scott, read us out and your jokes are excellent today. I have to give you the start five star.

[Scott Galloway]

Thanks for that. Thanks for that. Most comical in High School. Today's show is produced by Lara Neyman, Zoe Marcus and Taylor Griffin, or Ninja Hot Engineer. This episode. Jim Mackle edited the video. Thanks also to Drew Burrows, Ms. Silvero and Dan Schulen. Nishak Khurra is Vox Media's executive producer of podcast. Make sure you subscribe to the show wherever you listen to podcasts. Thanks for listening to Pivot from New York Magazine and Box Media. You can subscribe to the [e-mail] pod we'll be back later this week for another breakdown of all things tech and business. Cara, have a great rest of the week.

[Kara Swisher]

Rest in peace. Pope Francis.