Trump’s Putin Call, Inflation Rises, and Sam Altman Strikes Back at Elon Musk

Summary

Pivot Podcast Episode Summary

Title: Trump’s Putin Call, Inflation Rises, and Sam Altman Strikes Back at Elon Musk
Hosts: Kara Swisher & Scott Galloway
Release Date: February 14, 2025

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1. Trump’s Call with Putin and Implications for Ukraine

In the opening segment, Kara and Scott delve into the recent phone call between former President Donald Trump and Russian President Vladimir Putin, where they reportedly agreed to initiate negotiations to end the war in Ukraine.

• Scott Galloway [03:27]: Highlights the complexity of the situation, noting that Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth indicated that returning to Ukraine's pre-2014 borders is unrealistic. He comments, “Russia sort of won at devastating cost to itself and to Ukraine.”

• Kara Swisher [04:28]: Questions the authenticity of the diplomatic stance, suggesting, “This could have been written by Sergey Lavrov, the equivalent of their Secretary of State, or propaganda.”

The hosts discuss the potential strengths and weaknesses of the proposed peace deal, emphasizing Ukraine’s position and the broader geopolitical ramifications.

• Scott Galloway [05:26]: Critiques Hegseth’s approach, stating, “They just read from a card without fresh ideas,” and expresses skepticism about the negotiation framework.

• Kara Swisher [05:25]: Argues that Europe is unlikely to acquiesce to Russian demands, adding, “They have dramatically increased military spending across the EU.”

2. Inflation Concerns and Policy Responses

The conversation shifts to the rising inflation rates, which surged by 3% in January—the fastest monthly increase since August 2023—primarily driven by a 53% rise in egg prices.

• Kara Swisher [12:33]: Analyzes the factors behind inflation, stating, “If you dig in, inflation is sort of a crude number because there's core inflation... Shelter, including housing costs, rose 0.4% last month.”

• Scott Galloway [16:44]: Questions whether Trump's criticisms of Biden regarding inflation will have lasting impacts, concluding, “Based on all previous track records, nothing ever sticks.”

Kara advocates for proactive solutions, such as implementing a housing act similar to the CHIPS Act to increase housing supply and reduce prices.

• Kara Swisher [14:33]: Suggests, “I would love the Democrats to propose a dramatic increase of tax subsidy... within 10 years we're going to bring housing prices down dramatically.”

3. Elon Musk’s Oval Office Appearance and Influence

A significant portion of the episode critiques Elon Musk’s recent appearance alongside Trump in the Oval Office, discussing his influence and the optics of his presence.

• Scott Galloway [19:07]: Describes the scene as, “the weirdest visual I've ever seen,” noting Musk’s casual demeanor and the inclusion of his child in the meeting.

• Kara Swisher [21:08]: Reflects on the appropriateness of bringing children to such high-stakes political environments, stating, “If you're the president and you have children, it's one thing... Do you really take your kid to a concentration camp?”

The hosts express concern over Musk’s expanding role and its implications for governance and public perception.

4. Sam Altman’s Response to Elon Musk’s Bid on OpenAI

The episode covers the ongoing tension between Sam Altman, CEO of OpenAI, and Elon Musk, particularly regarding Musk’s attempts to acquire or influence OpenAI.

• Sam Altman [26:05]: Discusses the legal and strategic maneuvers between OpenAI and Musk, emphasizing the conflicting positions in their lawsuit.

• Kara Swisher [27:03]: Commends Altman’s disciplined communication strategy, advising against engaging Musk’s provocations: “Sam has taken so far the high road around this, and he should continue to take the high road.”

Scott agrees, suggesting Musk’s actions aim to destabilize OpenAI and sow controversy.

• Scott Galloway [28:37]: States, “He's just trying to slow OpenAI and drag it into controversy.”

5. Tesla vs. BYD: The Battle in the Electric Vehicle Market

A detailed analysis of the competitive landscape between Tesla and Chinese EV manufacturer BYD is presented, highlighting market dynamics and technological advancements.

• Alice Hahn [34:14]: Notes Tesla's declining sales in China and Europe, stating, “retail sales of Tesla and China were 16% lower year on year.”

• Kara Swisher [37:10]: Critiques Tesla’s innovation stagnation, predicting an existential crisis: “Tesla stock is going to be below 200 in the next six months.”

• Scott Galloway [38:02]: Observes, “Musk does not make cars that are interesting anymore,” and praises BYD’s design and affordability.

The hosts emphasize the importance of safety and innovation in maintaining market share, with BYD emerging as a formidable competitor due to its cost-effective and technologically advanced offerings.

6. Local Politics: Mayor Adams and Democratic Challenges

The discussion shifts to New York City politics, specifically addressing Mayor Eric Adams’ controversial actions and the broader implications for the Democratic Party.

• Kara Swisher [40:42]: Criticizes Mayor Adams for his arrangements with the DOJ and ICE, labeling it as corruption: “This is corruption at the highest level.”

• Scott Galloway [41:36]: Continues the critique, calling Adams “a crook” and expressing disappointment in his leadership.

The hosts argue that Adams’ actions tarnish the Democratic brand, suggesting that Governor Hochul should remove him to restore the party’s integrity.

• Kara Swisher [42:05]: Proposes, “Governor Hochul should move in and say, do a press release and say, I'm removing him as mayor.”

7. Miscellaneous Topics

• Gulf of Mexico Renaming: The host humorously debates the U.S. government's decision to rename the Gulf of Mexico to the Gulf of America, mocking the confusion and enforcement implications.

• Future of Search Engines: Both predict a decline in Google’s search dominance due to emerging competitors like Perplexity, ChatGPT, and Reddit, anticipating a shift in how information is consumed online.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Scott Galloway [03:27]: “Russia sort of won at devastating cost to itself and to Ukraine.”

• Kara Swisher [04:28]: “This could have been written by Sergey Lavrov... or propaganda.”

• Kara Swisher [12:33]: “Shelter, including housing costs, rose 0.4% last month.”

• Scott Galloway [16:44]: “Based on all previous track records, nothing ever sticks.”

• Scott Galloway [19:07]: “The weirdest visual I've ever seen.”

• Kara Swisher [21:08]: “Do you really take your kid to a concentration camp?”

• Scott Galloway [26:05]: “He's just trying to slow OpenAI and drag it into controversy.”

• Kara Swisher [34:14]: “Retail sales of Tesla and China were 16% lower year on year.”

• Kara Swisher [37:10]: “Tesla stock is going to be below 200 in the next six months.”

• Scott Galloway [38:02]: “Musk does not make cars that are interesting anymore.”

• Kara Swisher [40:42]: “This is corruption at the highest level.”

• Scott Galloway [41:36]: “He's a crook and an embarrassment for a great city.”

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Conclusion

In this episode of Pivot, Kara Swisher and Scott Galloway dissect critical geopolitical developments, economic challenges, and high-profile corporate conflicts. From the intricacies of Trump’s diplomatic maneuvers to the mounting pressures on Tesla from BYD, the hosts provide incisive commentary on the evolving landscape of politics and technology. Their candid discussions underscore the complexities of global diplomacy, economic policy, and the relentless pace of innovation in the tech sector.

For listeners seeking a comprehensive analysis of current events in tech, business, and politics, this episode offers a robust exploration of the pressing issues shaping our world.

Transcript

[Kara Swisher]

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[Scott Galloway]

Support for Pivot comes from upway. Stuck in traffic again? Frustrated with rising gas prices? There's a better way to get around. Commuting by E bike isn't just great for your health, it's a game changer for your wallet and your time. Here's my tip. Head over to Upway Co to find E bikes from top tier brands like Specialized, Cannondale and Aventon at up to 60 off retail. Whether you're into MTBS or Speedy City Bikes, they've got you covered. Plus, you can get $150 off your first ebike purchase of $1,000 or more with the code PIVOT150. You can thank me later. I love E Bikes. Turn off the electricity and let's dance. Let's dance. Hi everyone. This is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Kara Swisher.

[Kara Swisher]

And I'm Scott Galloway.

[Scott Galloway]

How you doing, Scott? What's going on?

[Kara Swisher]

I'm doing okay. I just hauled up five flights of stairs my 14 year old's beverage refrigerator. Cause what is a 14 year old without his own beverage refrigerator?

[Scott Galloway]

I like a beverage. I just bought a beverage refrigerator.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, you and my son, do you know that? Yeah, but you deserve one.

[Scott Galloway]

We renovated our house. We're moving back in and I thought I need a beverage refrigerator. In my little pod room. I created a pod room. You know, that I have my own home pod studio, like you. I'm trying to keep up with you.

[Kara Swisher]

It's very nice.

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah. But I got one of those old retro ones, and it's blue. What do you think?

[Kara Swisher]

Oh, really? Yeah. I'm in favor of retro blue fruit. I'm just. I'm actually very much an evangelist for beverages. But also. Also, yeah. Is it one of those, like, cool. What do they call it? Smeg.

[Scott Galloway]

It's not smeg, actually. Frigidaire. Someone bought the Frigidaire name and it has Frigidaire across it in that script. I'm very pleased. I'm very pleased with my refrigerator. I love a refrigerator. I've always had beverage refrigerators, and my kids have too. I think it's important. I have one in San Francisco. I had a haul of mine upstairs too. Anyway, we have a lot to get to today. My God, the news is insane, Scott. I have to tell you, it's nuts. Besides that weird Elon Oval Office presser with a kid saying whatever he was saying, we have also how deep Seek is threatening Tesla's dominance. We've got a million of things. Of course it's all about fucking Elon. I'm so tired of him. But he's right in the middle of everything. So what are we gonna do?

[Kara Swisher]

What are we gonna do?

[Scott Galloway]

What are we gonna do? But first, President Trump said he and Russian President Vladimir Putin have agreed to start negotiating an end to the war in Ukraine. Trump and Putin had what was described as a lengthy and highly productive phone call on Wednesday. Trump later spoke with Ukraine's President Zelensky. But Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth offered some insights on what Ukraine can expect from a peace deal. Way to go, Pete. Telling people what we're gonna do before we negotiate, but go ahead.

[Sam Altman]

We will only end this devastating war and establish a durable peace by coupling allied strength with a realistic assessment of the battlefield. We want, like you, a sovereign and prosperous Ukraine. But we must start by recognizing that returning to Ukraine's pre2014 borders, Ukraine is an unrealistic objective. Chasing this illusionary goal will only prolong the war and cause more suffering.

[Scott Galloway]

So Hegseth also noted that NATO membership for Ukraine is not on the table. I mean, they just. They just. Russia sort of won at devastating cost to itself and to Ukraine. But they're essentially saying, well, they got the land they got, and this is where we do. And I get that on some level. At the same time, it's Kind of Putin's kind of won because he was willing to put up with all those losses on his side and the damage that they did to Ukraine on the other side.

[Kara Swisher]

This could have been written by Sergey Lavarov, the equivalent of their Secretary of State, or propaganda. What might be interesting of the wild card here is I'm not sure Europe is down with acquiescing to another murderous autocrat invading Europe and just saying, okay, it is what it is. I mean, what. What Secretary Hegseth said is probably pretty accurate. It's very unlikely we're going back to the traditional borders.

[Scott Galloway]

That's correct.

[Kara Swisher]

But at the same time, the time you negotiate, you want to negotiate from a place of strength and what you've seen across Europe, and you could argue that's one of the benefits of not only, not only the invasion of Ukraine, but also, quite frankly, of Trump, who signaled, I'm sick of supporting or giving everyone this very exp. Military umbrella. But you have seen a dramatic increase in military spending across the eu.

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah.

[Kara Swisher]

So I'm not sure the EU is going to say, you know, Ukraine, if you can't, if you don't want to, if you don't want to bend the knee at this moment, courtesy of whatever Trump and Hexad say, we've got your back. And what's just remarkable about Ukraine is in every conflict, there's a new. There's a new weapon that kind of rears up whether World War I, it was tanks and biplanes, World War II, radar and drones. Yeah, this is all about drones. And it's just incredible what they have been able to do with substantially less resources. So I think you negotiate from a position of strength. And when you start off with this type of rhetoric, you're basically, this. This could have been written by the Russians.

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah, I agree. I think it's really, you know, this is what they said they were going to do. So it's not a surprise. But Hegseth is just reading from a. By the way, I don't think he has a fresh idea in his head ever. I think he's just handed things like the TV host that he was.

[Kara Swisher]

I heard he consulted with Jack Daniels before he gave the speech.

[Scott Galloway]

Zelensky, who's basically been sidelined here, posted on X after the Trump call, writing, no one wants peace more than Ukraine. I would imagine so, given the devastation of his country. And it's just the question is, can Europe have. Does Europe have. This is a goal Trump had, which was Europe should pay more of its own freight, presumably after we have been supportive of him for so, so long. And what he's doing is he's acting like this is a real estate deal. Right.

[Kara Swisher]

The other wild card people aren't talking about is, you know, who doesn't want peace? China.

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah.

[Kara Swisher]

China was a real beneficiary of the war because they get oil at dramatic, you know, on sale. Because Russia, because they've been essentially shunned by every other major oil consumer.

[Scott Galloway]

And then another country just went off of your. Of Russian oil oil. The other day they turned on the lights. They had kind of a weird Eurovision event. One of them, they were like, fuck you, Russia.

[Kara Swisher]

It felt like a rave party. It's like I was like, let's drop Somali and turn off.

[Scott Galloway]

Turn off Russian guys and let's dance, let's dance.

[Kara Swisher]

And now we dance.

[Scott Galloway]

I loved it. I loved the whole thing. But, you know, it's this idea of giving into Russia. This is a real politik, right? All right. They're there. This NATO thing on top of it. It's like, they should be in NATO. They want to be in nat. They're a European country. They are so innovative. Speaking of drones, I mean, this was a technologic to me. In 10 years, there'll be tons of technology going on there. When this is all settled, which is a good thing, right? They'll create a really innovative, interesting country. But if they want to be in NATO, let them be in NATO. And the fact that Hegseth did this is, you know, we all want this war to end, obviously, especially for the people of Ukraine. Russia gets what it gets because it invaded. I'm sorry for people who died in the Russians, but I'm not. Because they did it right? So they have to pay their price. But to be attacked like this and then have us throw them under the bus is just not a surprise.

[Kara Swisher]

You brought a key point, and that is while, at the end of the day we might end up with some sort of commitment to not let Ukraine join NATO, because there is. If you talk to Professor Jeffrey Sachs at Columbia, who I disagree with on almost every foreign policy viewpoint, he would argue that we invited, that Russia was backed into the corner because of the prospect of Ukraine joining NATO. And maybe ultimately, you know, that you're not going to let them join NATO and America, for the most part, gets to make that decision. But you don't offer it up before the negotiations. You maybe even say, in one way we'll guarantee their security moving forward is incorporating the new Ukraine into NATO. And then Russia freaks out and Says, okay, if you take. You know, if you give back 60, 70, 80% of the territory, you don't. You don't show up and negotiate against yourself and offer that up before you need to.

[Scott Galloway]

So that's why you do all the negotiating for us. Because I'm always saying what I think on the top. That's why I like working with you. You're always like. And then we do this. I'm like, what? Oh, all right. Okay, fine. Like, I don't know. Anyway, it's a shame, and I have to say, I have a lot of ground for Volodymyr Zelenskyy.

[Kara Swisher]

He's the most tertullian character of this millennium so far.

[Scott Galloway]

They're going to jam him out. That's the next thing. They're going to find a way to get rid of him and put a pro Russian government in there. No question.

[Kara Swisher]

I would say I have more confidence, actually, in the eu, I don't think. Keep in mind, the EU is a larger economy. They have dramatically increased the military budget, and quite frankly, they still remember what happens when an autocrat is let. When you give him. When you say, okay, here, you can have Poland or you can have this segment of France.

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah, it feels very Chamberlain, doesn't it? Feels very Anthony Chamberlain to me, anyway. Well, we'll see where it goes. But Pete Hegseth just reads things on a card just so everybody knows.

[Kara Swisher]

Anthony Chamberlain. Wasn't it Neville? Or was it Will Chamberlain?

[Scott Galloway]

Neville Chamber. Neville. Jerry Chamberlain. I'm sorry, not Anthony. Neville Chamberlain. Thank you for checking my historical references.

[Kara Swisher]

It's so rare. It's usually that. You're usually telling me. I got a lot.

[Scott Galloway]

I was thinking of a different Anthony because there's so many Anthony people.

[Kara Swisher]

Richard Chamberlain from the Thornbirds with one of the hottest women ever, Rachel Ward. We need to redo. We need to redo.

[Scott Galloway]

Oh, my God. I just talked about the Thornbirds with someone. I was being interviewed this week from Australia because I'm going to Australia in a week.

[Kara Swisher]

A love affair, his commitment to God. I'm like, dude, just tell God to put.

[Scott Galloway]

Just fuck her.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah. Oh, my God. Take that shit down and let us watch.

[Scott Galloway]

I know.

[Kara Swisher]

Put it on cable and let them go at it.

[Scott Galloway]

You're not gonna believe this. I mentioned it to one of the interviewers from Australia. I'm like, I love Australia. Thornbirds. And literally, this person was maybe 12 years old. They're like, what's that? An Australian? I was like, I need to go now. You don't know Thornbirds. I need to leave now. Anyway, we'll move on from that. I don't know how we got to Thornbirds from Ukraine, but there we are. Okay, the latest inflation numbers are out and they're higher than expected. Inflation rose 3% in January, the fastest monthly increase since August of 2023. The surging price of eggs was a big factor in the increase, up 53% from last year, which is fine with Kara. As I noted, I'm not an egg fan. President Trump was quick to point a finger at these numbers, calling them Biden inflation up. Sorry, dude, you own the car right now. And for those expecting lowered interest rates, Fed Chairman Jerome Powell says inflation numbers show there's more work to be done. So Jerome was right and Trump is wrong. And now he, he said he didn't fix the price of eggs on day one, which he promised several times, and now says it's Biden's and it'll take longer. What do you think about inflation right now? Obviously we talked about it a lot in the Biden administration. It was a big factor in his loss.

[Kara Swisher]

Well, I mean, first off, to be fair, you can't pin egg prices going up 53%. It's the avian flu or whatever it is. But if you look at, if you dig in, inflation is sort of a crude number because there's core inflation. And if you, if you really get to the nut of it, the thing that drove a lot of this kind of uncomfortable number, and it's probably the reason why the Fed is now pulling back on what they thought were going to be rate or the market thought anticipated rate cuts is shelter. Housing costs, including hotel and motel rooms rose 0.4% last month. And I've always, I've always thought that. And the Democrats need to get off their heels in whining and bitching and being outraged and get onto their toes and start proposing some really dramatic forward looking solutions. Cause I think one of the reasons we lost Kara, was that we were seen as a party of the past and everything's fine and let's hold onto our tradition. And the Republicans sent you that essay.

[Scott Galloway]

Did you get that essay I sent you?

[Kara Swisher]

I don't read anything you sent me. It takes too much time and it's usually exceptionally. It's like 140.

[Scott Galloway]

Well, you're articulating exactly what that piece say, but go ahead.

[Kara Swisher]

140 pastes smeared over very woke toast. 140 IQ. It's very smart work.

[Scott Galloway]

It was like an economic. Anyway, go ahead.

[Kara Swisher]

Anyways. So I do want to Listen to the podcast here with the three economists. But anyways, the really exciting thing would be, all right, how do we implement a chips like ACT for Housing? Because if you unleash the real economy, there's a lot of great housing builders out there. Pulte. There's a ton of. And say to them, all right, I don't know if it's 3%, 5%, 10% tax subsidy. And also make it more difficult for residents to sequester new housing permits. One of the biggest tragedies in American history, I believe was we took housing permits out of the hands of actually the bureaucrats were trying to fire and we put it into the hands of housing owners who all of a sudden decided if I own a house, I don't want any more new houses built.

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah, nimby. Nimby.

[Kara Swisher]

But a dramatic, I would love the Democrats to propose a dramatic increase of tax subsidy, whatever it might be, that increases housing supply well beyond its current demand and says within the 10 years we're going to bring housing prices down dramatically.

[Scott Galloway]

Trump would do this. Mr. Real Estate, right. Studies like playing games in Ukraine.

[Kara Swisher]

It has such a huge psychological impact on our youth because, and not only that, housing formation. I don't know about you. When I, when I was younger and trying to figure out a way like not to get married, I said, okay, let's get a dog. And then I was like, okay, let's get a house. And when you get a house, it's really a commitment to each other and you start saving. It's a great means of, of creating more cementing of a bond with somebody.

[Scott Galloway]

Should you and I get a house together?

[Kara Swisher]

Let me think. No.

[Scott Galloway]

Okay.

[Kara Swisher]

My housing strategy is very straightforward. It's a 0.1% strategy. Wealthy people are the most homogenous, boring people in the world. And that is, I'm convinced essentially income inequality is only going to get worse. And the 0.1% are incredibly boring. They all wear Hermes ties, they party in St. Barts, they drive Range Rovers and they want to live in one of six or seven places. Sounds like you, but go ahead, invest what you know. And you know, boner pills and two headed glass dildos. I'm still looking for an investment there anyways. But back to real estate. The 0.1% all want to live in Dubai, London, New York, Palm Beach, Aspen, certain, certain parts of la. And then there's maybe two or three close seconds and they're all crowding into a small number of homes. And in addition, the secondary benefit is I want to make it such that my boys can't avoid me. It's like, well, we can go to Tijuana and eat cheap lobster or we could go hang out at my dad's place. We have them lunch with them anyways. I know how we got here. But Trump, the Democrats need a housing act.

[Scott Galloway]

All right, but here's the thing. Will this inflation stuff gonna stick? There's the tariffs, everything else. Although they're kind of a paper tiger in that regard for now at least. Is it gonna stick to him? Cause he made so many problems about fucking eggs. He went on and on about eggs. Is that go stick with. Stick on him?

[Kara Swisher]

Well, my, my heart says yes, but my brain says based on all previous.

[Scott Galloway]

Track records, nothing ever sticks.

[Kara Swisher]

This guy if he can be found liable by a jury of his peers, selected by both his defense and the prosecution and be found. Be found liable of sexual abuse. I'm not sure inflation's going to stick to him. So I would think. But what I probably know or what I feel is yes. What I know based on fact patterns is no.

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah. So we have to offer positive things going forward. I agree with you. All right, let's go on a quick break. When we come back, President Musk takes center stage in the Oval Office.

[Kara Swisher]

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[Scott Galloway]

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[Sam Altman]

Will that be cash or credit?

[Scott Galloway]

Credit.

[Sam Altman]

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[Scott Galloway]

Scott, we're back. Elon Musk joined President Trump in the Oval Office on Tuesday to discuss his work on Doge. I'm gonna call it doggy from now on. I'm not calling it Doge Doggy. He gave a very casual explanation of what he's been up to. Let's listen.

[Kara Swisher]

I mean these things, like it's just common sense. It's not, it's not draconian or radical. I think it's really just saying, let's look at each of these expenditures and say, is this actually in the best.

[Sam Altman]

Interest of the people?

[Kara Swisher]

And if it is, it's approved. If it's not, we should think about.

[Scott Galloway]

It actually when the best interest of Elon Musk. According to a lot of reporting, by the way, a lot of these cuts have to do with his businesses and a lot of these attacks are mostly around things that affect him. He said he speaks to Trump almost daily and checks with him before making decisions. Meanwhile, Trump signed an executive order giving doggy even more order requires the doggy team. I like saying it like that. To be stationed at every government agency to oversee hiring decisions now and will only allow agencies to hire one employee for every four that depart. Aside from that, that was the weirdest visual I've ever seen. His four year old was there looking. Elon used to call this kid a cute prop and that's what it was. And he kept talking to the President who seemed out of it. Elon was casually dressed, sort of pontificating, saying he made so what if he made mistakes about the Gaza condoms? Who cares? He makes mistakes. It was the strangest thing I've ever seen. And Trump looked like he was drugged or something. But I don't know. How were your thoughts on that?

[Kara Swisher]

I'm a big fan of Bring Elon to work days. I think it's. I was praying that the little kid would start goose stepping. I think that would have. That would have been fitting. Papa, tomorrow belongs to me.

[Scott Galloway]

Oh, no. Don't make kid jokes. Keep it out, keep it out. Even Grimes was like, that kid should not have been in public.

[Kara Swisher]

You think you mean the same. Hold on. I think it's the same kid he put on his shoulders as he walked through the gates that said, work will set you free at Auschwitz.

[Scott Galloway]

Oh, my God. Okay, all right. Okay, all right.

[Kara Swisher]

That's true.

[Scott Galloway]

Well, talk to me about this.

[Kara Swisher]

That's true.

[Scott Galloway]

Yes, you did. You're right.

[Kara Swisher]

He used his kid. He used his kid as a prop at Auschwitz. Anyways, I don't. I'm a big. I think it's great when people bring their kids to work, but when you use your kids, it feels like the kid is a bit of a prop right now.

[Scott Galloway]

He is. Well, he's called it that.

[Kara Swisher]

And look, I don't. It all, again, is like the gulf of distraction. And that is the inspector general who was looking into Musk's payments and business activities has been summarily fired. Right. And I'm putting out a post tomorrow. Basically, what people don't realize is it's just so incredibly cynical, because arguably, one of the biggest welfare queens in history is Elon Musk. If you look at where a lot of these payments have gone. So a lot of this largess. So I find, look, it's pretty obvious I have a bias against the guy, but I didn't. I thought it was smart for Trump, visually, to be sitting like I'm more important, and to have him there standing. I thought Elon looked good. I'm trying to be. I thought that fashion was kind of cool, the black hat and the jacket. And I actually thought he handled the questions relatively well, so probably a win for them. But I have a difficult time just absorbing and processing any of this.

[Scott Galloway]

See, I did not. I had an exact opposite. I was like, what is going on here? This is so strange with the kid saying things to Trump. I mean, a lot of people put words in the kid's mouth. One was, you need to shush now.

[Kara Swisher]

But I don't know how much of that was real.

[Scott Galloway]

I don't know. I'm not even gonna go. He was talking to the president, saying something. He was saying something, and he shouldn't have. The kid shouldn't have been there. It's such a weird thing to do that. And I don't care. You can attack me all you want. This is not an appropriate place for a kid, Largely for the kid's sake, not for. You shouldn't have kids at work or whatever. It's just. It's weird. It's weird. And the kids. The kid is gonna suffer for it. I'm gonna make that parenting declaration right now, and his own mother said the same thing, by the way. But whatever. Musk wants to do it and he gets to do whatever he wants. It was disrespectful to the office of what they were doing. I still believe that. I still believe in that. Even if you don't or necessarily, or people don't. I do. Secondly, I thought Trump looked old next to Musk and it looked like Musk was running the government. I thought that's the visual I got out of it. But maybe that was.

[Kara Swisher]

See, I think actually Trump, given the fact that he is that old, I think Trump is remarkably robust and good looking for and people sure is.

[Scott Galloway]

So why was he sitting down and just looking out of it and saying nothing?

[Kara Swisher]

I think it was sort of a power move. But a couple things come up. One, the kid was totally distracting for me and he's doing, I do the same thing. I, I put out pictures on social of my dogs. One, because I think they're great and they are beautiful dogs. And two, I think it makes me more likable. I do the same thing. So I understand what he's trying to do. The thing that propped up in my mind is I have good friends who, and I got this practice from them. Every five years they sit each other down and they say, logistics and money aside, which is a position of privilege, what could we do that would make you really happy? And my friend said, I think it was about five years ago, I'd like to sail around the world with family. So they spent two years planning how to homeschool their kids on a boat, how to build a boat that could circumvent, navigate the globe. And they did it. They circumnavigated the globe. And there were some exceptionally scary moments involving pirates, rough seas, when you got like a 7 year old on the boat. If the 7 year old goes over, there's no getting him back. And what they said to me was, I said, would you do it again? I tried to talk them out of it. These are good friends. I'm like, I just don't think this is a good idea. I wouldn't do it. And there's certain bodies of water, I would just take a plane. You don't need bragging rights. You're both incredibly impressive people. And I said, would you do it again? And they said, not until our kids could give consent. Because they said there were just some moments that were very scary. And I feel the same way about this. If you're the president and you have children, it's one thing to have those moments, but I don't know. Do you really take your kid to a concentration camp?

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah, I focused on the kids. I'm focusing on Elon. I agree. This kid should not have been there.

[Kara Swisher]

I thought the whole thing was so fucking weird.

[Scott Galloway]

It was weird. It was just a weird thing. And I thought Trump did look aged. I don't think he looked powerful. I thought he looked like the kid and he were just over playing with blocks over here. And Elon was running the government anyway. OpenAI CEO Sam Altman has some harsh thoughts about Elon Musk after his bid for the company. There's a lot of legal back and forth this week, by the way, about this. There's a lawsuit and then Musk made a bid which seems like a fake bid. Either it's a fake lawsuit or a fake bid. I can't tell. But let's listen to Sam Altman.

[Sam Altman]

Do you think Musk's approach then is.

[Scott Galloway]

From a position of insecurity about xai?

[Sam Altman]

Probably his whole life is from a position of insecurity.

[Scott Galloway]

I feel for the guy. Feel for him.

[Sam Altman]

I do, actually.

[Kara Swisher]

I don't think he's like a happy person. I do feel for him.

[Scott Galloway]

The backhanded compliment. Well done, Sam. In a court filing, OpenAI has said the bid contradicts legal claims Musk made in a lawsuit against the company last year. In fact, it does. Musk now says he's willing to drop the bid if OpenAI remains a nonprofit. By the way, there are emails where Musk indicates he wanted it to be a profit company. So he's just whatever works for him, he says. At the time. As of Tuesday, Altman told employees the board hadn't received an official offer from Musk, which is probably true. I'm going to believe Altman here over Musk. You know, he's just trying to slow him down. That's what it seems like. He'll say whatever it takes to slow OpenAI and drag it into controversy and take advantage of people either have left OpenAI or who have ill feelings towards Altman, etc. Which there's going to be many.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah. I think Sam has shown a great deal of discipline around his comms and his brand. I think he screwed up here. I think that whether it's true or not, it might have felt good to say. I feel for the guy. And yes, he's insecure. I think he just sort of said the offer isn't a serious offer. And I can't. I have no idea what's going on with Elon Musk. I don't want to. Sam has taken so far the high road around this, and he should continue to take the high road. He shouldn't take the bait and say. Because that's basically saying he's insignificant. And it must have felt good. And I get why he would do it. He's probably so sick of this guy, I think so. That wants to deploy Lawer instead of actually competing against him and is like this poltergeist who will not go away.

[Scott Galloway]

For all of us.

[Kara Swisher]

That's absolutely fair. But Sam's brand is. Sam comes across as the adult in the room, and he's very restrained, and he errs on the side of taking blows. And I don't think he should go there and say, I mean, that was passive aggressive, minus the passive part.

[Scott Galloway]

Oh, no, that was like, what an asshole. Yeah, I watched how he did it. I've seen him do it before. You know, these sideways attacks, and they're funny. And he's like, oh, I feel sorry for him. He's such an asshole. I feel sorry that he's an asshole.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah. But I think the bright answer would have been, of course we had our lawyers look at it. We don't think there's any merit on it. We're focused on building great products. So I'm not here to psychoanalyze.

[Scott Galloway]

So which one do you think this is just about slowing down. Both of us think that, but it's just about slowing down. OpenAI not a real lawsuit and not a real bid. Possibly. It could be, though.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah. But the only thing is, if you're a public company and someone makes a bid for a certain class of shares is the way I would describe this, then you have a fu to share obligation to put together a special committee and look at. And I don't know if they have debt, if that changes anything, but it's.

[Scott Galloway]

Not clear because it's a nonprofit, if they have a special responsibility. But go ahead.

[Kara Swisher]

But when you're basically a private company and everyone's making so much money, I just. Unless there's someone on the board of the nonprofit that also hates Altman, which might be the case, and wants to.

[Scott Galloway]

Create trouble, sort of stacked it with.

[Kara Swisher]

Friends of his and they can pretty much do whatever they want. They don't. A public company has an obligation. The board has an obligation to get the highest offer and look at everything. A private company is basically a private company, and they can kind of do, you know, the shareholders as represented by the board can kind of do whatever the fuck they want. And I can't imagine any of them are going to go, yeah, let's bring Elon in.

[Scott Galloway]

Well, in the case of Twitter, there was a really good. There's been very good reporting when the CEO at the time, Agrawal, said, we have to look at this offer. It's an offer. It's a huge offer. I'm sorry to say we don't have a choice, even if he's an asshole, essentially. And then they had to take it because it was so good and ridiculous and so above their thing. In this case, they can do whatever they want and it's not that far above it. And maybe the nonprofit gets more money or something like that, but they'll be lost. He'll just keep throwing. Listen, Elon Musk has two moves. I'll buy it or I'll sue you. These are his two big moves. And sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't.

[Kara Swisher]

He doesn't have the money to buy because if he were to buy it, he would have to ma. Look. Actually, the more interesting kind of thing that no one want, I actually read or looked at, which is Latin for how one of my analysts read the earnings call from SoftBank and a bunch of people ask questions about this anticipated investment in OpenAI at a 340 or $300 billion pre money valuation. And basically, in so many words, they said, what the fuck are you thinking? Can you please explain this? And what will be the structure of the investment? So I'm now beginning to think that that investment might be at risk because a lot of the analysts on the call were, what are you doing? This makes no sense. So for the first time, I'm now wondering if SoftBank actually reduces their commitment to that rental.

[Scott Galloway]

Right, Right. Yeah. Well, that's exactly what Musk wants to happen, right? That's exactly what he wants to do. He wants to cut them off at the knees. He's very clever that way. All right, Scott, let's go on a quick break. How deep Seek is threatening Tesla's next.

[Kara Swisher]

We're taking Vox Media podcasts on the road and heading back to Austin for the south by Southwest Festival. March 8th to the 10th. What a thrill. We'll be doing special live episodes of hit shows, including Pivot. That's right. Right. The dog's going to the great state of Texas. Where should we begin? With Esther Perel. A Touch More with Sue Bird and Megan Rapinoe. Not just Football with Cam Hayward. And more presented by Smartsheet. The Vox Media podcast stage at south by Southwest is open to all south by Southwest badge holders, we hope to see you at the Austin Convention center soon. Visit voxmedia.comsxsw to learn more. That's voxmedia.com.

[Sam Altman]

The Republicans have been saying lots of things. Just yesterday their leader said he wants to own Gaza.

[Scott Galloway]

The US Will take over the Gaza Strip and we will do a job with it, too. We'll own it.

[Sam Altman]

On Monday, the Secretary of State said an entire federal agency was inside subordinate USAID in particular.

[Kara Swisher]

They refused to tell us anything. We won't tell you what the money's going to, where the money's for, who has it.

[Sam Altman]

Over the weekend, Vice President Elon Musk, the richest man on earth, tweeted about the same agency that, you know, gives money to the poorest people on earth.

[Scott Galloway]

We spent the weekend feeding USAID into the wood chipper. Could gone to some great parties, did that instead.

[Sam Altman]

But what have the Democrats been saying?

[Scott Galloway]

People are aroused. I haven't seen people so aroused in a very, very long time.

[Sam Altman]

Huh. That's a weird way to put it. Senator, we're gonna ask what exactly is the Democrats strategy to push back on? Republicans on Today explained. Over the last few weeks, America's health and science agencies have been shaken. There's been funding freezes, communications, gag orders, censorship of research.

[Scott Galloway]

It's really a chaotic picture. I'm really scared.

[Kara Swisher]

The United States was the best place in the world to do science. And that has never felt more threatened.

[Sam Altman]

In my career than it does right now. This week on Unexplainable. What does all this mean for the future of science in America? Follow Unexplainable for new episodes every Wednesday.

[Scott Galloway]

Scott, we're back. Chinese electric car company BYD is bringing deep seat technology to its vehicles. Of course, the EV maker has added advanced driver assistance systems in most of its vehicles, including a model that costs under $10,000. They're also continue to be adorable. The cheapest Tesla model on the market is $30,000. Tesla stock is down 17% in the last month because people are actually doing math but and not thinking that Musk's ascendance will benefit Tesla necessarily. You know, he's a CEO, but he's focused on a lot of other things. Scott, this week you talked to Alice Han, Chinese economist and director at Greenmantle, about this very thing. Let's listen.

[Kara Swisher]

How is our player Tesla domestically, who has its own manufacturing in China, faring against BYD domestically in China?

[D]

Not well at all. I mean, the fact that Tesla's still there surprises me somewhat given its, its price point. And the fact that all these companies, including Tesla, have had to cut prices over the last few years because of the extremely competitive price war landscape, I think it's only a matter of time before that share starts to diminish even further. It's going to be an open end question. And now this is going to be based on the politics of it all, whether or not Elon Musk gets these autonomous vehicle licenses.

[Scott Galloway]

Explain what she was saying there. And by the way, her accent is fantastic.

[Kara Swisher]

Oh, I cannot tell you how impressed I am with this with Alice Hahn. She's my find. Occasionally you find somebody and you think, this person is a genius and I want to give them more sunlight. And she's one of those people anyways. She's essentially said that, I mean, if you look at what's happened to Tesla in Europe, it's not much better in China. In January, retail sales of Tesla and China were 16% lower year on year.

[Scott Galloway]

Why wouldn't you buy a BYD?

[Kara Swisher]

They're great cars and get this 60% lower than in December. So, I mean, BYD. And BYD is now the number one EV car manufacturer in the world. Going to a much broader point here, I think that the most important relationship that could evolve, hopefully in the next three years, let's assume that Musk or Trump, supposedly he desperately wants a Nobel Prize. And so let me go to advising the President in a hopeful way. The most obvious way would be to solve the civil war in Sudan, threaten both sides, work with both sides. The other way would be if China in the US Kissed and made up the. I mean, have you seen these cars? These cars are $10,000 EVs and really good.

[Scott Galloway]

They're adorable. As long as they're safe, they're going to raise questions. I've had people write me about whether they're safe or not.

[Kara Swisher]

Okay.

[Scott Galloway]

I'm just saying they have to be. If they're here for another two or.

[Kara Swisher]

$3,000, you can install a lot of airbags and a lot of safety features. And in addition, I would even go further than that. I would create a bilateral AI commission where we, I mean, supposedly 38% of AI engineers are Chinese in the U.S. and when we don't cooperate with them, they develop their own chips. They, they have incentive to do things kind of in and around us. I would, I would have a bilateral AI similar to what Oppenheimer's vision was for nuclear, where we share everything with each other, but we also commit to ensuring that AI is not used to create bioweapons. By third parties or bad actors. Because all we're doing is motivating the other to figure out workarounds to attack the other. The most important relationship in terms of a thong right now would be the first and second largest economy.

[Scott Galloway]

Talk about these autonomous vehicle licenses. He needs them in China, right? If he can get these from the Chinese.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah. But here's the Chinese playbook, and it's happening to Tesla. The Chinese playbook is very simple. Oh, Google, ometa, come on in. And then they watch, listen and learn, and then they steal their IP and prop up a local entrepreneur and capture the most of the value for the domestic market. And I think the same thing is happening to Tesla. I can't imagine a lot of that IP from Tesla didn't end up at byd.

[Scott Galloway]

I don't know about that. I do think that I am of the field. I agree with you about sort of the fast follower. Right. The planes are covered with the bodies of pioneers, that kind of thing. That said, I do think there's a ton of innovation. I think. I think you can see it through TikTok. I think what Alibaba has done, there's a lot of innovation there too, of their own, but they definitely weight, watch and then innovate.

[Kara Swisher]

And battery, too.

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah. I don't think they necessarily steal every minute of the day, but there is that. But these cars are very different than anything I've seen. So it's not like they're copying, Right? They're sort of copying. But there's also innovations around it that I have never wanted to buy a car more than a BYD car. And I love my Ford. I love my Bolt, as you know. And I do. I think it's adorable, too.

[Kara Swisher]

Byd, certainly. Sales plummet day after podcast. You have the worst taste in cars.

[Scott Galloway]

I know, but have you seen them? I like their.

[Kara Swisher]

They're beautiful. They're super cool.

[Scott Galloway]

And they're cool. And if you're a young person, you'd want 100% in a second. They look like. I don't mean they're. They're kind of like.

[Kara Swisher]

It's like the new VW Bug, but with technology.

[Scott Galloway]

It's the Uniqlo of cars, you know, like, whenever I get a uniqlo, I buy 10 shirts. I like. They love them. And I have to say, I love them. I don't think I'm using them as just throw them out. They're just inexpensive and adorable. I just. I mean, I look adorable, by the way.

[Kara Swisher]

It's the car equivalent of fast fashion. We have figured out supply chain to just bring you something for dramatically less money.

[Scott Galloway]

And. And as long as they figure out the safety, which they'd have to in this country. I agree. I think he's just. Here's the deal. Musk does not make cars that are interesting anymore. That's all. It's an interesting car. It was an innovation. He hasn't. You have to update these things for consumers. And he's. He does. I don't think he cares about the cars anymore. That's my feeling. Some better news for Tesla and Marco Rubio in a totally normal deal that had no strings attached. The State Department Procurement forecast for 2025 includes $400 million in armored Tesla vehicles. At least someone is buying them besides douche nozzle men. They tried to hide it. They had Tesla on there. They changed it to armored vehicles and they're cybertrucks. Nobody else wants to buy them. Consumers don't seem. A small group of consumers do, of course, as there would be. But it seems like it, you know, one of those things people buy because it's weird and interesting, but nobody is buying them. And there are very few people are buying them. And now the government is buying them. Another gimme for Elon Musk. The grift keeps grifting, I feel.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, that's exactly right. The only thing propping up Tesla stock right now and his wealth is this basic. The market has said this is now a kleptocracy. And your proximity to power is more important than your innovation.

[Scott Galloway]

Right. So they're buying them from.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, and also firing people who are investigating the company and getting. Getting rid of them and. Yes, I guess that's a plus. Yeah, it's even. Unfortunately, it's even. And this isn't in the script, but I'm just curious to get your quick reaction. Have you been following what's going on with Mayor Adams?

[Scott Galloway]

Yes, please do. I mean, just pay per filet. He's not gonna be mayor soon. That's the thing. He's out. Don't you think? I feel like he's not gonna be.

[Kara Swisher]

God, I hope so. I mean.

[Scott Galloway]

Oh, come on. Nobody in New York likes it.

[Kara Swisher]

I agree. No, I said I hope so. I mean, essentially, what's effectively happened is he's instructed the DOJ to drop all prosecution efforts against Mayor Adams. And in exchange, Mayor Adams has agreed to comply with all efforts by ICE to capture or retain or detain and deport. So what you have is, is I'll make sure that you are not subject to the same laws that every other citizen is subject to. If you agree to go against your constituents and let our ICE people into, who knows, churches or schools. I mean, this is really fucking ugly.

[Scott Galloway]

Oh, no, it's utter. You know what, Eric Adams, You're a crook. Like, you're a crook. You're a shitty crook, by the way. You only want tickets to Istanbul. Like, what a loser. He's. You know, I know you're backing a particular candidate in New York. I forget who it was. Who was it?

[Kara Swisher]

Whitney Tilson.

[Scott Galloway]

Yes, but there's a bunch of people running. You know, there's a bunch of people.

[Kara Swisher]

The guy who will probably win is when Andrew Cuomo actually announces that he's in the race.

[Scott Galloway]

But there's a bunch. There's a bunch of very good candidates who are not going to be criminals.

[Kara Swisher]

It's a bunch of out of control progressives. One pragmatist named Whitney Tilson. Whitney, who is a pragmatist, would be a great mayor, but probably doesn't have the name recognition. Governor Cuomo is going to come in and probably just lock it. But. But Kathy Hochul has, I believe, the power to remove Mayor Adams, and she should. This is really. This is corruption at the highest level.

[Scott Galloway]

And just because, yeah, he should make.

[Kara Swisher]

An example of him 100%. This is really. And by the way, I was a supporter of Mayor Adams. I thought. I thought the case against him was, quite frankly, overdone. I did not think what he did rose to the level of. I don't know how the media was portraying it.

[Scott Galloway]

I know. I think he's Grifty McGrift from the start, from the go. He wasn't living there. Everything came out of his mouth was a lie. This guy, and he's such a ridiculous peacock and surrounded himself with such gr. I get. New York mayor has to be like a little bit grifty, but this guy was like, grifty.

[Kara Swisher]

Ish.

[Scott Galloway]

Grifty is. You know, they all are. I mean, come on. I mean. But, you know, like, he's just. He's an embarrassment for a great city. You want a little greatness out of a mayor of. You know, even back in the day, Rudy was not actually. You know what? I didn't support Rudy. He was the thug to a lot of people.

[Kara Swisher]

This is. But this is. It's so damaging to the Democratic brand, because the Democratic brand, unfortunately, has been tarred with a broad but fairly fair brush of every Democratically run city on the west coast is a fucking shit show. They ignored drugs, they Ignored crime and they're just. The quality of life is awful. I said two years ago, if Fox. If I were Fox, I would just broadcast live from downtown San Francisco every day. And so the center of Democratic branding for politics moved to New York, which is actually performing quite well and still offers. Is still the best place in the world to go in terms of a crush of opportunity culture, nightlife. New York really still is the best city in the world and represents the best of America and thereby the best of the Democratic Party. And now we have this bullshit. So it's really damaging on a lot of levels. I think Governor Hochul should move in and say, do a press release and say, I'm removing him as mayor.

[Scott Galloway]

Who would you put in place?

[Kara Swisher]

No, you know who I would ask. That's a good question. I just thought of it. I would ask Mayor Bloomberg to step back in.

[Scott Galloway]

Oh, good idea. I love it.

[Kara Swisher]

Six to 18 months until there's a special election.

[Scott Galloway]

Great idea. Love it. All right, Kathy, get on it. All right, last thing. The Gulf of Mexico is now the Gulf of America, at least on Google and Apple maps in the U.S. apparently, there are consequences for not using the new name. Associated Press reporters have now been barred from multiple White House events. After AP continues to use Gulf of Mexico in its reporting. The AP is calling this a violation of the First Amendment. But Press Secretary Carolyn Levitt, also known as Tracy Flick, says we reserve the right to decide who gets to go into the Oval Office. Oh, my God, it's so stupid. Distraction, distraction, distraction. I'm going to call it the Gulf of Scott. I don't give a fuck what people do to me. If I do that.

[Kara Swisher]

You saw my thread or whatever it is, I can't keep track. I just put out Gulf of Distraction. That's all this is. I don't. You know, who cares? I don't. Fine, call it that. I just don't.

[Scott Galloway]

It's so stupid. It's so stupid. It's so manifestly stupid. And I'm sure I don't even think like, oh, yay, we're calling it the Gulf of America. Whatever.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, we'll show them.

[Scott Galloway]

We'll show them. I gotta tell you, I'm loving the new President of Mexico so much. She's such a badass. I'm gonna try to interview her. Yeah, she's like, fuck you. You know? But at the same time, she deals. She's a dealer, too. Anyway, it's a dist. Googie. You look like wimps, but whatever. And nobody looks good. I'm Gonna call it the Gulf of Scott. That's the end of it.

[Kara Swisher]

All right, everybody, I appreciate that. Gulf of Dog.

[Scott Galloway]

Dog golf. Dogie. No, dog. Golf of dog. No, I like Golf of Scott. No, Gulf of Galloway sounds good, right? Gulf of Galloway.

[Kara Swisher]

It feels like Make America Scottish again.

[Scott Galloway]

It feels like Ponce de Leon would have named it that. Gulf of Galloway anyway. All right, it's time for this week's Threads poll. This one's open ended. What do you wish Democrats would do in response. Response to the Trump administration's actions? What do you wish? We've had our opinions on that. Something besides standing in front of a building and yelling, that's for sure. Visit us on Threads at Pivot Podcast official to answer, by the way, have you noticed AOC is not outside of the buildings? She's not. Have you noticed that?

[Kara Swisher]

She's very calculating.

[Scott Galloway]

She does great online stuff. I'll tell you that. Her and Pete are killing it.

[Kara Swisher]

She's not going to be on the go to the alumni cheerleading day where they have all these very cute 95 year olds dressed up in pom poms. She's an actual cheerleader. She's a gangster.

[Scott Galloway]

She and Pete Buttigieg, I have to say, are very appealing.

[Kara Swisher]

They're in the background managing their brand really strongly with an eye on 28. And they're not gonna, like, go down in some sort of like, angry near zombie apocalypse movie. Yeah, they're too smart. They're.

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah. Well, we would love our listeners to write in, what do you think they should do? And no violence, please, if you don't mind. All right, Scott, one more quick break. We'll be back for predictions.

[Kara Swisher]

This week on property markets. We speak with Alice Hahn, China economist and director at Greenmantle. We discuss the potential impact of tariffs on China's economy, how Tesla is faring against byd, and how a Trump presidency could shape China's foreign and domestic policies.

[D]

Trump is the biggest dove in a house full of hawks. Everyone else around him wants to push him towards being more hawkish in China, on trade, on tech, on military. And I sense that, you know, whether it's Rubio or Hegseth or Waltz, they're going to try to push the agenda of being tougher in China and having more deterrence vis a vis Taiwan.

[Kara Swisher]

You can find that conversation exclusively on the Prof. G Markets podcast Podcast.

[Sam Altman]

All right, so here's the deal. Take a former world number one, that's me, Andy Roddick. Add in the journalist who knows everything about tennis and a producer who's still figuring out how to spell tennis. You get served with Andy Roddick, the weekly podcast where we break down the game we all love. We cover the biggest stories, talk to the sport's biggest stars, and highlight the people changing tennis in ways you might not even realize. Whether it's Grand Slam predictions, coaching champions, changes off court drama, or the moves shaping the future of the sport, we've got it all. This podcast is about having fun, sharing insights and giving fans a real look at what makes tennis so great. Catch serve with Andy Roddick on Spotify, Apple podcasts, wherever you listen or watch us on YouTube, like subscribe, follow all that good stuff. Let's get started.

[Scott Galloway]

Okay, Scott, let's hear a prediction.

[Kara Swisher]

So you know a broken clock can be right. I had. I was a prediction machine last night. I wrote it much down.

[Scott Galloway]

You did?

[Kara Swisher]

What happened?

[Scott Galloway]

What were you taking?

[Kara Swisher]

No, I was actually sober, which was kind of frightening. Interesting. When I was talking about. When you said that Fuck Mary Kill thing and I was talking about making sweet, sweet love to Mark Zuckerberg and I thought I'd.

[Scott Galloway]

You're still thinking about it, aren't you?

[Kara Swisher]

Oh my God, I can't get off it. Grabbing that chain, riding him like a dog and singing who's self harming now, you wanton bitch? Oh my God, my nipples are getting hard. And at that moment, at that moment I thought, maybe I don't need drugs. Maybe I don't need drugs. Anyways, this is all gonna come crashing down, Kara. Anyways, last night I'm getting notes from.

[Scott Galloway]

Lara saying no, no, no. But I say yes, yes, yes.

[Kara Swisher]

And therefore, if that's wrong, we don't wanna be right.

[Scott Galloway]

Oh, you don't? All right, go ahead, predict.

[Kara Swisher]

I think Tesla's about to experience its real first major existential crisis. Sales off. Oh gosh, they're off.

[Scott Galloway]

Here you go again.

[Kara Swisher]

They're off. Here I go again. I can't help it, I'm an addict. They're off 20 to 60% across European countries. They're off 15% in China. EV demand appears to be plateauing. They are getting their shit kicked out of them by byd. They haven't really released a new new mass adoption product in about seven years.

[Scott Galloway]

Have I been saying that? I have been saying that.

[Kara Swisher]

And they have what is right now the worst brand ambassador in the world. And then.

[Scott Galloway]

Or the people that want to buy those cars.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, and then my more boring one is I really think Google is going to. You're about to hear a lot of stories about Google search share falling below 90% at the hands of perplexity, ChatGPT and also Reddit. And I was even thinking, just as YouTube has become the ultimate distribution platform in 2025, I think in 26, it's going to be Reddit. There's just a bunch of like, there's so many moons lining up right now. I'm really. Anyways, I think that Tesla is about to have. I can't help it. I'm just going to say it now. Tesla stock is going to be below 200 in the next six months.

[Scott Galloway]

Go in there, you're fine. You're going there again. I love you. Once more into the breach, Scott Galloway.

[Kara Swisher]

At some point, I'll be right.

[Scott Galloway]

Well, the numbers are the. The math is math, right? Look, before they were on the upswing in terms of like the quality of cars, what they were releasing. Instead, they're forced to sell things to Marco Rubio, who has to do whatever everybody says. Cause he's such a. Such a beta. Just so you know, on that thing about search, Atlantic Politico, Vox, Jim Bankoff sent me this. And other major publishers are suing AI startup Cohere for copyright and trademark infringement, escalating the news battles. Legal batt over the technology. That's from the Wall Street Journal. It's a Canadian company. It's valued at $5 billion. And they're using thousands of copyrighted works to train its large language model.

[Kara Swisher]

Hmm.

[Scott Galloway]

Anyway, they're suing Tim Bankoff on the attack. Atlantic, Politico. They must have coordinated it all together. All right, so those are your two that searches. Those are good. Those are big ones. Those are big ideas.

[Kara Swisher]

We'll see, right? Yeah, we'll see.

[Scott Galloway]

Someday you're gonna be right. Anyway. You are right. You were right before. In terms of the numbers. It just didn't matter. And this case, we'll see. We'll see what happens.

[Kara Swisher]

Do you have any thoughts, any predictions?

[Scott Galloway]

Predictions? I predict I will buy yet another EV this year. I will. The key is getting a little long in the tooth. And I'm trying to debate whether to get the hybrid, which I think is really. Hybrids are growing like crazy.

[Kara Swisher]

Oh, you know what we should do?

[Scott Galloway]

What? What?

[Kara Swisher]

And I'm serious about this. Alice, who I really respect, I would even call her a friend, analyst Alison, she said, scott, you should really. I haven't been to China since 2019. And I was saying I was so excited about China. And I went there probably two, three times a year, and I haven't been back since 2019. And she said, I'll Take it. It'll be a ton of fun and you'll meet with some interesting people. You and I should go to China. And you should pick up your BYD and see if you can get it.

[Scott Galloway]

Back to the U.S. oh, interesting.

[Kara Swisher]

And pay the import, pay the tariff and bring it back.

[Scott Galloway]

Let's go to China. I bet we're popular in Hong Kong. You know, we did one of my conferences here. I had a stroke there, as you know. Last time I was there, I had a stroke.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah. The International Tourism Board is not. That's not going to be on any billboards. Want a stroke? Come to Shenzhen.

[Scott Galloway]

No, let's. China. Let's do it. That would be really interesting.

[Kara Swisher]

We should do it in China.

[Scott Galloway]

We want to come visit you. And we're going to bring. But we're going to drive it. Reach out to us. We're going to drive it across the ocean.

[Kara Swisher]

Reach out to us.

[Scott Galloway]

Reach out to us. We're coming to China. We'll do an event. Whatever you want.

[Kara Swisher]

And I've heard that the CCP is actually a good organization because I can't find anyone who would say anything else. Bring us to China.

[Scott Galloway]

Bring us to China. They're so good. All right, let's do it. Let's do it in 2020.

[Kara Swisher]

After we see Wicked.

[Scott Galloway]

After we see. We're going to see Wicked, my friend.

[Kara Swisher]

We could see Wicked in Beijing. That'd be interesting.

[Scott Galloway]

Are they to let people. It's all about a surveillance economy. I wonder how big.

[Kara Swisher]

I have no idea.

[Scott Galloway]

Do you know what are you doing this weekend? Anything interesting?

[Kara Swisher]

Oh, yeah. I'm going to. It's funny, I paused there. Cause I feel like I rubbed my wealth in people's face. I'm going to Zermatt. I'm going to Zermatt on Saturday.

[Scott Galloway]

All right.

[Kara Swisher]

That's exciting and I'm really excited. Supposedly, we have this ridiculously hot ski instructor, so. Yeah.

[Scott Galloway]

Okay. You know where I'm going? I'm going to SNL's 50th concert.

[Kara Swisher]

Really? Is it a concert or a showing?

[Scott Galloway]

No, there's gonna be a show on Saturday. I'm just going to the concert the night before. It's at Radio City.

[Kara Swisher]

That sounds really cool.

[Scott Galloway]

Anyway, we want to hear from you. Send us your questions about business, tech, or whatever's on your mind. Go to nymag.com pivot to submit a question for the show. Or call 85551, pivot. Okay, Scott, that's the show. We'll be back next week with more pivot. Please read us out.

[Kara Swisher]

Today's show is produced by Lara Naman, Zoe Marcus and Taylor Griffin. Ernie and her Todd engineered this episode. Thanks also to Drew Bros. Misso and Dan Shulan. Nishat Kuro As Vox Media's Executive producer Vodka Audio make sure you subscribe to the show wherever you listen to podcasts. Thanks for listening to Pivot from New York Magazine and Vox Media. You can subscribe to the [e-mail] pod we'll be back next week for another breakdown of all things tech and business care. Have a great weekend.