Scott Galloway (2:20)

I texted my assistant, I said, should I get to the airport early? And she said, oh no, not to worry, it's Mexico. And I'm like, jesus Christ, how far have we fallen?

Kara Swisher (2:28)

It's really Weird. I have to tell you, I'm so glad I'm not traveling this week. We traveled a lot last week for south by Southwest and it was quite fine. Even though it was sort of building the idea. It was building in these airports. We'll talk about it. But I am so happy I'm not traveling. And it seems like airports, it's like lines, delays, crashes and ice. And of course, plane riding was never the most fun thing in the world, but did you have a good time in Mexico with your friends? I love when you do that.

Scott Galloway (3:00)

Yeah. I go every year with the same guys, and because one of us passed, we now feel as if in a weird way now we almost feel a weird obligation to go every year. But I love it down there. I can't stand the, I don't know, catastrophizing or demonization, whatever the term is, of Mexico. I think it's a fantastic place to vacation. I think the food is incredible. I love the weather. I love the people.

Kara Swisher (3:28)

Did you learn something fresh from your friends? Did you come to a conclusion? Like, did you have a moment? A hug? Cuddle? Puddle?

Scott Galloway (3:34)

One of my friends, Adam. I mean, there's a couple things. As you get older, as guy friends, you are very competitive. Early on, it's sort of you get together for kind of a non. A series of controlled boasting, trying to show how well your life is going.

Kara Swisher (3:47)

Yeah.

Scott Galloway (3:47)

And get drunk and be more outrageous than the other. And then as you get older, you do sort of pivot to really enjoying and celebrating each other's achievements. But I'm now at the stage where, I mean, just last year there's this great gym called Jungle Gym in Tulum, and me and my friend Adam and Augusta would go to the gym together. Now me and Adam get up early because we can't sleep and we take a long walk. We call them lesbians because he's getting his knee replaced. So, I mean, things have changed.

Kara Swisher (4:19)

Yeah. Yeah, you do. You become lesbians. And men need to do that. I think it's really. You know what I did last night?

Scott Galloway (4:24)

What'd you do?

Kara Swisher (4:25)

Mahjong.

Scott Galloway (4:26)

Oh, that's great. My mom used to play mahjong.

Kara Swisher (4:28)

Yeah, well, it's the thing now. It's the hot thing, in case you're interested.

Scott Galloway (4:31)

Are you good at it?

Kara Swisher (4:33)

You know what? It was a mah Jongg lesson. I got up from my school auction and I invited 16 people, friends who didn't know each other, which was really good. And we had a teacher there at my school and little Snacks, little wine, little beer. And we learned American mah jong. There's two different kinds. I happen to like the Chinese mah jong better for various reasons, but it was fun. And I have to say everyone was thrilled afterwards because it was interaction, brain work, some wine and learning and, you know, these are all different. I had different ages of people too.

Scott Galloway (5:04)

Was it all women?

Kara Swisher (5:06)

No, it was men and women. And it was fun.

Scott Galloway (5:08)

Okay, hold on. Any straight men?

Kara Swisher (5:10)

Yes.

Scott Galloway (5:11)

I don't believe you.

Kara Swisher (5:12)

Yes. No. There was an oil trader there. Let me just tell you.

Scott Galloway (5:16)

Oil trader.

Kara Swisher (5:17)

Yeah, he was definitely straight.

Scott Galloway (5:19)

You're gonna hear from the Mahjong association of America.

Kara Swisher (5:21)

It just was really interesting. I'm telling you. Mahjong is the pickleball of 2026. You look it up.

Scott Galloway (5:28)

That's interesting. Yeah, it is.

Kara Swisher (5:29)

Everyone's playing it. It's challenging. It's interesting. It's a mind fuck of a game because you really have to think. And it's also tactile. The noise of the clickety tiles and everything is very satisfying. And it's about strategy and cooperation and non cooperation. Anyway, it's a great game, actually.

Scott Galloway (5:50)

We played shy when we were in Tulum. We played mahjong. Oh, no, wait. We bought Molly from a woman in the men's bathroom. Very similar.

Kara Swisher (5:58)

You and I are gonna play mahjong.

Scott Galloway (5:59)

Very similar.

Kara Swisher (6:00)

We're gonna play mahjong. Anyway, I'm not exaggerating mahjong to everybody.

Scott Galloway (6:03)

We had dinner with someone. The food down there is amazing. And at one point, this person said, I think I'm gonna go get Molly from the woman in the bathroom. And I'm like, what could go wrong? What could go wrong? I'm like, that's the sentence of the weekend. I'm gonna go buy Molly from the woman in the bathroom.

Kara Swisher (6:23)

Pung kong. That's what I did. Do you know what that means? Pung?

Scott Galloway (6:27)

Is that like a gin rummy for mahjong?

Kara Swisher (6:30)

Essentially, yeah. No, it means you have.

Scott Galloway (6:33)

I think three women are amongst the many things women are better at. Women are better at friends than men. And men, after they get married.

Kara Swisher (6:42)

Yeah, they are.

Scott Galloway (6:43)

Or find a partner, generally lose contact with their friends. And the only friends they have are through their partner or through school or through work. And they don't do a good job.

Kara Swisher (6:52)

No, you do. You have a lot of male friends.

Scott Galloway (6:54)

That's something I'm really good at and something also my partner is very. She does girl trips. I do a lot. I do two or three guys trips a year. And I find them incredibly Grounding and fun and rejuvenating. And we always try, and. Not always, but I would say every other time, we try and bring, you know, a tourist, a new guy in and then, like, mean girls, we decide if we're inviting them back or not.

Kara Swisher (7:22)

No, you are not worthy. I always have visualized your vacation as, like, White Lotus of the Three Women. And I'm not sure which character you are. The trumper. The other.

Scott Galloway (7:30)

Oh, I thought it was Sydney Sweeney when you said White Lotus.

Kara Swisher (7:33)

No, no, no. Remember the three Girls? They're on the Three Women. They're on there.

Scott Galloway (7:36)

One of the greatest monologues in streaming history, that woman gave about friendship.

Kara Swisher (7:41)

Friendship, yeah.

Scott Galloway (7:42)

Oh, God, she's fantastic. She was in the Leftovers with our friend Justin Theron. Yes.

Kara Swisher (7:45)

She's also in the Gilded Age.

Scott Galloway (7:47)

Everyone talks about the Sam Rockwell monologue when he talks about.

Kara Swisher (7:50)

That was jaw dropping.

Scott Galloway (7:51)

A woman watching him get fucked by another man. Which is a moment. But I thought the best monologue was the one she gave about friendship.

Kara Swisher (7:59)

She's an amazing actress. Carrie Coon. She's amazing. She's amazing.

Scott Galloway (8:02)

She's very good.

Kara Swisher (8:02)

She's so. I love her in the gildings.

Scott Galloway (8:04)

You're very good. Actually, you know something? I've noticed this about you. What? You are a very loyal friend. You keep showing up with the same women over and over.

Kara Swisher (8:11)

I know, it's true.

Scott Galloway (8:13)

And I'm like, oh, there's Tammy. Oh, there's Brooke.

Kara Swisher (8:17)

I have lots of friends.

Scott Galloway (8:18)

You take your friends very seriously.

Kara Swisher (8:20)

I do. I have tons of them. And I love them. I love them all. Anyway, not all of them. And I cut some out. I do when things get trouble. I have been cutting more people out, too, at the same time. Let's get to the news.

Scott Galloway (8:31)

Oh, let's not.

Kara Swisher (8:33)

Let's.

Scott Galloway (8:33)

Let's talk about getting Molly from a woman in a bathroom in tulum. I've had it.

Kara Swisher (8:37)

You know, I've never done molly. Just so you know.

Scott Galloway (8:39)

Oh, you should start. You should start.

Kara Swisher (8:41)

I can't now. It's too scary. It's too scary.

Scott Galloway (8:43)

So Speaking for a friend, 80s music has never sound more magical than from what I've heard.

Kara Swisher (8:47)

I like it just by itself. I can't do it. I'm a scaredy cat of the drugs. I'm a scaredy cat. I like cocaine. I'll die.

Scott Galloway (8:53)

I've never done cocaine. I've never done that.

Kara Swisher (8:55)

If I do like ecstasy, I'll die. Like, I have this whole vision is the first time I ever, ever. This is the last Thing I'll say, the first time I ever hitchhiked, only time in my life, I got, I got grabbed by a guy. I literally, I was like, I'm not gonna. Because there's. People could grab you and someone's like, oh, come on, just do it. And the only time I did it, I got grabbed.

Scott Galloway (9:15)

Hitchhiking.

Kara Swisher (9:16)

Yeah, hitchhiking.

Scott Galloway (9:17)

I hate to hear that. That's awful.

Kara Swisher (9:18)

I know. But I was like, I avoided it my whole life and then I did it once. So that's why I feel the same way about drugs. I'll do it once and I'll be like, you'll be reading about it.

Scott Galloway (9:26)

It's like, I don't know what made me think of this, but of course I'm that overbearing parent. And my son, at the age I don't know when I was like 10 or 11, wanted to walk to his friends by himself in Florida. And of course his mom made me follow him stealthy in our car. So I'm following him, trying not to get caught. And I park and immediately fucking neighborhood control. These two 90 year olds come out and say, what are you doing here? And I'm like, I'm stalking. I'm like, don't worry, I'm stalking my son.

Kara Swisher (9:51)

So I'm stalking teenage boy.

Scott Galloway (9:53)

I said, I'm following that 10 year old boy. Which did not come out right.

Kara Swisher (10:00)

Oh, I did that. I did that to my mother. Took my kids for the first time, followed her on the streets of New York. I thought you'd lose, lose him.

Scott Galloway (10:06)

I was literally like Inspector Clouseau, like driving 200ft behind, making sure he didn't see me. And then he'd go around a corner.

Kara Swisher (10:14)

He probably knew. Now he knows anyway. We have to get to the news. Two pilots are dead after an Air Canada plane and a fire truck collided at LaGuardia Airport on Sunday evening. There's stoppages at Newark everywhere as we record this. LaGuardia is closed. The accident comes as airports chaos across the country. Not just TSA lines due to a DHS shutdown because they're not paying the TSA security people. The Trump administration is now sending ICE agents into airports. They can't wear masks because there's no criminals, apparently. Border control czar Tom Holman says ICE will be there to help move these lines along. I think he was told about it in a truth social. And then he had to do something about this poor feckless guy is like, oh, God. Trump just announced if ICE isn't enough to help at the airports. He'll bring in the National Guard. TSA workers have been calling in sick and record numbers and more than 400 officers have outright quit since the shutdown began in February. They're not being paid. There was just a report that there was an agreement between John Thune and the Democrats which Trump rejected. This is fully in Trump's. This chaos is Trump's chaos. He's trying to send ICE to do this. Elon Musk, as usual, because he can't, because he's a narcissistic prick, has inserted himself into this offering to pay TSA salaries during the shutdown. This is not how we wanna fund government. President Trump says that it's the Democrats fault. It's clear chaos follows him wherever he goes and he won't do any deal because the Democrats want to put strictures on some ICE activities, which seems appropriate. And airports suck for people. You're seeing videos after video after video of the lines, the chaos, the shutdowns, the lack of security, the possibility of accidents everywhere you go. Any thoughts?

Scott Galloway (11:55)

Another attack on the middle class is that probably the most obvious investment in the middle class is investments in infrastructure. Because when people can get to work, when people have more opportunities, when people can spend more time with their families, when people have an absence of stress, when they can take their kids to Disneyland, that's accretive to the prosperity of their life. And a fairly decent metric for the progress of a civilization and how much it cares about its middle class is its investments in infrastructure. And when you see this type of political warfare breaking out, I mean, here's what's happened. The 1% that controls our government now has their own infrastructure.

Kara Swisher (12:42)

They do.

Scott Galloway (12:44)

I mean, their own transportation, their own planes, their own security, their own police force. If you just give a little bit of money away, you can get practically your own say in government. So I'm not exaggerating. I go to the Cancun airport, you know, I buy a. You know, whatever. I bought some cerveza. Yeah. I bought a Modelo Especial, and there was no security line. And I thought, oh, I have to come to Mexico for an investment in the middle class. Anyways, I find the whole thing incredibly discouraging. Typically, before our podcast, I do 30 seconds of research, and this one, I just couldn't do it. I just couldn't do it.

Kara Swisher (13:25)

Yeah, well, it's not a very good look. Who do you look. I hate to say who looks better here, but I think this is one of these visceral, visceral things. The way the attacks on Minneapolis were. This is a visceral thing that goes all over.

Scott Galloway (13:37)

Do they blame Trump or do they blame government in general?

Kara Swisher (13:39)

I think they blame Trump. I think chaos follows this guy. And it looks like there's very clear reports the Republicans tried to settle it, and he's refusing. He refuses to give in.

Scott Galloway (13:49)

Well, that's. But see, that's the problem. If you want to get air traffic controllers and TSA paid, it's pretty easy. Just cancel all immediately pass legislation that grounds all tail numbers that are private planes. Private planes have their own special type of tail number. And all of a sudden, the prunes are going to come through the constipation of the legislative process, and they're going to figure out a way to fund tsa. But the people who control our government right now, unfortunately, aren't as affected by this.

Kara Swisher (14:21)

Nope, they aren't. And Trump doesn't care. He doesn't care about people.

Scott Galloway (14:26)

Like he gives a shit that lines are long at Hartsfield Jackson Airport.

Kara Swisher (14:31)

Yeah. What's interesting is the airports that are working had private security there, like San Francisco and some others. And the ones that had tsa, obviously. And if I was a TSA person, I would quit, too. I mean, he was urging them to stay working without pay. No, no, just settle your differences, and everyone knows that. And then just send ice in. Of all things. So ineffective, so inefficient.

Scott Galloway (14:53)

What was the rationale for that?

Kara Swisher (14:55)

Dude, I don't know what they're gonna do. I think I literally, from what the reporting was, is he tweeted it or threaded it or whatever that whatever he's on, truthed it. And Tom Homan was like, oh, no, what do I do? And they have to all act like, okay, you know, we have to do something. Like, of course we're on it. But they're not on it. It's like crazy. Mad King George. I think what we have to have a conversation about, and we'll talk about Iran, is he has lost his mind. He is cognitively disabled. Mad King Geor. As it's getting. And it's getting worse, as you saw from the tweets, as we record. He says he's postponing strikes on Iranian power plants for five days, claiming productive talks with Iran to end the war. Iran is denying the talks with the U.S. just as U.S. presidents denied talking with Trump about what a good idea it was. I think he's having con. He's like Nixon. He's talking to the portrait on the wall. Over the weekend, Trump was Threatening to obliterate Iran's power plants if the Strait of Hormuz wasn't reopened. Then he said he wasn't. And then he said he was in Cox. And then he said this. He. A lot of things. It changes from absolutely minute by minute. Iran said it would irreversibly destroy essential infrastructure across the Middle east if the US Attacked its energy sites. They are not backing down. They are a lot stronger than. Well, Trump didn't do any homework at all. Oil prices fell and stocks rose after Trump postponed these strikes. But he threatened them, and he may threaten them again in the next 15 minutes. He seems to be literally changing his everything by the second. He probably got spooked by oil and gas prices. High gas prices in the last few weeks are sparking more interest in electric vehicles. We'll get to that in a second. But where are we? Because this shifting is literally minute by minute. It's like there's four minutes that goes by and then he says something different than the previous thing he just said when he gets in front of a microphone.

Scott Galloway (16:45)

Well, this is a continuation of just a total lack of objectives and no ability to communicate what the objectives are such that he could declare victory and win. It feels as if it's spinning out of control. A clear lack. I mean, at some point, incompetence comes to roost. I was always thinking, it's just amazing that shit hasn't gotten worse or we haven't had a disaster. When he keeps appointing podcasters and talk show hosts and conspiracy theorists to the most important positions in America. And now we're starting to see that come to fruition. Of course, they were going. One of the downsides of globalization, incredible prosperity, a lowering of prices. You outsource comparative advantage. Globalization, I would argue, on the whole, has been just an unbelievable unlock. Incentive, cooperation. The problem with globalization is it creates a series of choke points that can bring the global economy down. One of those choke points are the Straits of Hormuz. And a lot of people said it was a choke point, but whoever was saying that, they weren't listening to. And you have. Effectively, the world is likely going to go into some sort of fairly, either modest or maybe even a deep recession. And everyone talks about our energy independence. Yeah, we're strategically, from a defense standpoint, not that vulnerable. But we are going to have to pay the same higher prices as everyone else. And even the numbers around. Well, oil prices were down today because he claims to be having talks. There's now fear that he's sending combat troops and amphibious vehicles into the region.

Kara Swisher (18:14)

Then he said he wasn't, then he said he was, and then he said he was.

Scott Galloway (18:17)

They're going to try and maybe take the island of Kharg, which is responsible for 95% of the throughput, in exchange for them opening Hormuz. The president of Finland said that Europe should support the efforts to escort ships through the Strait of Hormuz in exchange for Trump committing to supporting Ukraine. And what's interesting about what's interesting, I think, or the dynamic I see emerging here is the key word that's coming out of both this war and the war in Ukraine is one word, asymmetry. And that is, well, two words, asymmetry and distraction. And that is, generally speaking, the world's powers shaped by economics and military strength. And if you go to the latter, military strength was a function of really expensive, sophisticated platforms of which only a few nations could produce a small number of them, and they were devastating. Now it's moving to the following dynamic. A shahed drone costs 25 to $40,000, but the Patriot missile to shoot it down costs 4 million. And so all of a sudden, you have the ability to create cheap and cheerful massive armaments using AI and GPS that can overwhelm the most sophisticated machinery, speedboats.

Kara Swisher (19:32)

You know, I had that interview with Tender Warren recently where he talks about this.

Scott Galloway (19:36)

He said, aircraft carriers versus Zodiacs weeks ago.

Kara Swisher (19:38)

He's like, look, we're going to lose because this drone that cost nothing is going to, you know, it's gonna hurt our ships or these Zodiacs or whatever it happens to be. But they have the ability to do this. And I think they miscalculated just how many of them Iran had and just how strong the government was. I think both Israel and the United States thought there'd be a popular uprising. There hasn't been. It certainly could happen, but it doesn't seem to be happening because as Warner noted quite correctly, because he does his homework, this, this group of people has a grip on power there. Terrible group of people, but they are in control of this country in a way that Trump did not seem to understand.

Scott Galloway (20:21)

I guess he didn't anticipate them attacking their neighbors. I think long term, that's a strategic blunder on their part. But we used to worry that our aircraft carriers might be vulnerable to a Chinese hypersonic missile. It's not. They're vulnerable to hundreds of Zodiacs going 30 miles an hour also. I mean, it's the reason why Ukraine has, despite unbelievable odds, been able to push back against a far superior Military power and economy in Russia is the same reason that Iran is a greater threat and is able to create more disruption now than we had anticipated. And it all comes down to this one word, asymmetry, and then the second word is distraction, and that is and fried. Zakaria did a fantastic piece on this. At the end of the 20th century, Britain was the world's dominant superpower, controlling about a quarter of the world's gdp, very similar to what we control. And they got bogged down in a series of conflicts overseas that took away their political, their economic and their military focus and weakened them at home, such that Germany could industrialize and we might be falling into the same trap.

Kara Swisher (21:29)

A little group of Americans with just guns and some moxie. That's the kind of thing. I mean, you have to sort of make these historical links because. Because no one would have thought we would have beaten the British. Right? But we had more at stake, right. Or we had more reasons and good reasons. But I think the problem is again, Trump equals chaos. It's like it doesn't have a point, this airline thing doesn't have a point. It's going to hurt airlines, it's going to hurt customers, it's going to hurt travel and tourism, it's going to get people not to travel, it's going to hurt the economy in all manner of ways. And the same thing with this, it's going to hurt everybody. Now, interestingly, with this oil and gas price spikes, high prices are sparking more interest again in electric vehicles which had seen a fall off. And searches for EV models are up quite a bit, 20% here in the US since Iran conflict began. It's not just in the US. BYD dealerships across Asia are also seeing a spike in demand. It's a really interesting moment because for people who don't understand, let me tell you, range anxiety is really going away. It's in a way that's really significant.

Scott Galloway (22:39)

I'm sorry, you said range anxiety?

Kara Swisher (22:41)

Range anxiety, anxiety. People worry about not being able. Their cars will run out of electric essentially, and that doesn't exist now.

Scott Galloway (22:49)

What can take away? Anxiety. I'm in. I tried Xanax last night and even that shit didn't work.

Kara Swisher (22:54)

No, just a plug. That's all you need is a plug. And these.

Scott Galloway (22:57)

I have several of those, but I do that for fun.

Kara Swisher (22:59)

Yeah, exactly.

Scott Galloway (23:00)

Oh wait, no, I'm sorry, an electric plug. Excuse me? Nevermind.

Kara Swisher (23:03)

Called for. Anyway. Electric vehicles are the one thing seeing a spike. This is not a surprise. But I have to say for the first time in my. I have a gas car and electric car. I'm thinking of just going all electric because I don't feel range. And that's the issue is that I better have a car to get out of here in case of the apocalypse, essentially.

Scott Galloway (23:21)

Well, that might be okay. So that might be. If there is a silver lining here over the medium and the long term, it does put a, you know, $60 a barrel. Oil does not help alternative energy. And this, I don't think this is going to be worth the price. I've been more optimistic about the potential outcomes of this. This what should have been a conflict or a military operation out of war than most people. But hopefully this does give a renewed focus on. I mean, if China hadn't busted a very strong move to alternatives, they would be really fucked. And they're still fucked. But it kind of renews the importance of being independent and not being subject to these choke points around in a variety of ways.

Kara Swisher (24:06)

Not just.

Scott Galloway (24:07)

And actually, did I tell you this, your ex wife we spoke at. Where was I?

Kara Swisher (24:14)

Southwest.

Scott Galloway (24:15)

Southwest. Southwest, Southwest. And she ran after. Of course, my favorite south by Southwest moment was after a talk. She came up and started answering questions for me as people were asking me questions. And by the way, her answers were pretty good.

Kara Swisher (24:28)

She's very smart.

Scott Galloway (24:29)

Anyways, this time she ran after me as I was headed out because I was talking about Iran and could be anything. And she showed me the site and it shows at any given moment where Texans are getting their electricity for air conditioning and everything.

Kara Swisher (24:45)

Oh, yeah, she's onto the Texan thing.

Scott Galloway (24:47)

And at that moment, she pulled it up 60% electricity was coming from wind power in Texas and another 18% was coming from solar. So Texas, which is supposed to be the epicenter of oil and gas, and Landman at that moment was getting 78% of its energy is electricity from renewables. This is getting. It is. So the incompetence chickens are coming to roost.

Kara Swisher (25:16)

Yeah, the right wing is going. The right wing podcasters are really going after Hegseth and Trump on the war.

Scott Galloway (25:22)

And we need to be really, really thoughtful about this whole notion of asymmetric warfare. It just. You can't. And it's so interesting. They launch multiples of these drones and they change altitude. So the GPS locators trying to fight back get confused. And then. But Ukraine is coming up with all sorts of sorts of defense drones. It's just going to open up an entirely different. I think you're going to see massive. And you actually pointed this out that Ukraine is going to, assuming we ever get to something resembling a sustainable peace that gives people the confidence to invest, you're going to see an unbelievable, I think technology boom there around defense.

Kara Swisher (26:06)

I actually, if I were like advising my son Alex, I might go to Ukraine when this is all over and you will be a billionaire. It's going to be so exciting there. I think there's corruption issues there, very significant, including with Zelenskyy's government and especially with Zelensky's government. But yes, it's absolutely an opportunity. What's really interesting here is again, all of this has chaos attached to it and we do not need more chaos. Anyway. And by the way, on our 250th birthday coming up, guess who did that kind of military tactics? The US revolutionaries. In order to beat the very much more organized and much more at the time militarily superior British anyway.

Scott Galloway (26:49)

But we just hid behind trees. We refused to march in a first line. We refused to march in a straight line.

Kara Swisher (26:54)

No, we didn't do marches.

Scott Galloway (26:55)

We did move in and have bright red coats that were great targets at dusk and light. So funny. You're in my algorithm. I got served that great Tomahawk scene of Mel Gibson with him and his kids killing about 90.

Kara Swisher (27:09)

Yeah, I can't stand Mel Gibson as Mel Gibson, but I love all his movies.

Scott Galloway (27:13)

Oh, he's a fantastic.

Kara Swisher (27:14)

One of my. I know, but he's a terrible person. I do, I love all those movies. I hate that. I love them, but I love them, every one of them.

Scott Galloway (27:20)

That's a fantastic actor.

Kara Swisher (27:21)

Anyway, that's the Patriot you're talking about. Yeah, that's the Patriot, yeah. Okay, Scott, let's go on a quick break. When we come back, Elon loses in court. Support for this show comes from Deleteme. Deleteme makes it easy, quick and safe to remove your personal data online at a time when surveillance and data breaches are common enough to make everyone and vulnerable. When you sign up, the experts at Delete Me do the heavy lifting of wiping you and your family's personal information from data broker websites. This isn't a one time service. Deleteme sends you regular personalized privacy reports showing what info they have found, where they found it and what they removed. I've tried Deleteme. I use it all the time and I found incredible amount of information about me out there. A lot of it inaccurate, but all of it compiled in a way that's really disturbing. You don't have to take my word for it though. Last year the New York Times wirecutter named Deleteme their top pick for data removal services. Take control of your data and keep your private life private by signing up for Deleteme now at a special discount to our listeners. Get 20% off your Delete Me plan when you go to JoinDeleteMe.com pivot and use the promo code PIVOT at checkout. The only way to get 20 off is to go to JoinDeleteMe.com pivot and enter the code pivot at checkout. That's JoinDeleteMe.com pivot code pivot support for this show comes from Mint Mobile. We all like our money. It keeps the lights on and lets us have fun. Unfortunately, big wireless companies also like your money. So much so that they come up with clever ways to squeeze more out of you each month. That's why Mint Mobile does things differently. They offer a premium wireless phone plan for just $15 a month. All their plans come with high speed 5G data and unlimited talk and telephone text. And you don't need to bother getting a whole new phone or number. Nor do you have to deal with long term contracts. Just activate online in minutes and start saving immediately. No more expensive monthly phone bill riddled with unexpected fees. Get three months of premium wireless service from Mint mobile for just 15 bucks a month. If you like your money, Mint Mobile is for you. Shop plans@mintmobile.com pivot that's mintmobile.com pivot upfront payment for $45 for three months month 5 gigabyte plan required equivalent to $15 a month for new customer. Offer for first three months only, then full price plan options available, taxes and fees extra. See Mint Mobile for details.

Scott Galloway (29:42)

Support for the show comes from Vanta Risk and Regulation. If you're a business owner, you probably know that both are on the rise and your customers need to know your proof of security. But earning that trust can be expensive and time consuming, Vanta says. That's the challenge that is a Designed to solve, Vanta automates compliance to bring risk management and customer trust together on a single AI powered platform. It helps companies achieve and maintain compliance across more than 35 security and privacy frameworks including SoC2, ISO 27001 and HIPAA. The result? Faster compliance, less manual work and more time to focus on growth driving opportunities. So if you're tired of sifting through old audits and spreadsheets, you can get a system that's always working in the background, keeping you compliant, reducing risk in helping your business scale fast and with confidence. Vanta says that companies including Ramp and Ryder spend 82% less time on audits with Vanta. That's not just faster compliance, it's more time for growth. You can get started@vanta.com pivot that's V A N T A.com pivot vanta.com pivot.

Kara Swisher (30:48)

Scott we're back with more news. A jury found Elon Musk liable for misleading Twitter investors in the run up to his purchase of the platform in 2022. Damages could reach up to $2.6 billion. Musk's legal team obviously plans on appealing the ruling. He also didn't have the worst of the of the things he didn't the jury didn't find around fraud and everything else. By the way, he's been very busy this week. Besides offering to pay tsa, he's busy. He's got to shut up. I felt like that this week he's busy keeping his hands in politics. He's been fixated on adv for the passage of the Save America Act, a strict voter ID bill, attacking Senate Majority Leader John Thune in the process, even though there's very little evidence. And by the way, the New York Times is just outright saying it that there is any voter fraud in these areas or examples of it. He's still holding influence in Ukraine, by the way, in a positive way, having cut off Russian forces Starlink Internet access last month. That's because they were getting them through the black market, the Russian forces using Starlink. And he cut them off very quickly. Good job, Elon. Let's give you kudos for that. And over at his other business, Tesla semi trucks are finally here, actually winning over truck drivers. This looks like a pretty good product. And Tesla says Tesla and SpaceX will launch Terrafab chip project in Austin because semiconductor manufacturers aren't making chips fast enough. That's not a surprise. I think everyone's doing that. Everyone's going to be doing that, but sort of it's a mixed bag healer this jury trial. We'll see. He'll probably exhaust them with appeal after appeal. But the jury didn't like what they heard how he behaved. And he still has never paid for his misbehavior. When it comes to the SEC and others, he tends to win or get off. Any thoughts on that or any of these topics?

Scott Galloway (32:25)

The definition of market manipulation is what he engaged in. If I were on a board and I went out and said falsely on Twitter that as a board member with insider information, we have funding secured to take this company private at a 40% premium to market, and the stock ran up, and then it ended up not to be true. And all the people who bought those shares at an elevated price. I think I'd be in jail. I know I could never serve on the director's job.

Kara Swisher (32:49)

He got off on that one.

Scott Galloway (32:50)

But here's the problem. He's gonna be found. I think he's gonna be found guilty. I think he's gonna be fined $2 billion and it doesn't fucking matter. And the right answer is just he was found guilty.

Kara Swisher (33:01)

The damages in this. It's not guilty.

Scott Galloway (33:02)

But he'll appeal it, right?

Kara Swisher (33:04)

He's appealing. It's liable. Not guilty, I think.

Scott Galloway (33:07)

Excuse me. Because it's a civil case, it's liable. Thank you. But here's. There's the unfortunate thing. It doesn't fucking matter to him. And the point of a justice system is not only punishment, but it's to create incentives so people don't do things again, not only criminally, but in civil litigation. And what we need to move to is what they're proposing with a wealth tax, and that is the whole point of a wealth tax, is we're going to take a percentage of your wealth. Now, I'm against wealth tasks, tasks, not theoretically or philosophically, but practically. They just don't work. But we need to move to some sort of proportion, proportionate civil liability fines. And that is the following. It's not a $2 billion fine. It should be 20% of your net worth. And that is if you commit this type of market manipulation where people lose faith in the markets. You don't own $2 billion, you owe 20% of your net worth. Otherwise, what is the incentive not to do this again? And the same thing should happen when Meta is found guilty of creating addictive products. And so is Alphabet. It shouldn't be.

Kara Swisher (34:18)

That's the other case.

Scott Galloway (34:19)

It shouldn't be a billion dollar fine. It should be 10% of the market

Kara Swisher (34:22)

capitalization, but it won't be. So what's going like here? The juries. Now it's interesting. It wasn't a judge trial. They decided to do a jury trial. So jurors do not like this guy, obviously. And he's. He very clearly.

Scott Galloway (34:32)

He's not a sympathetic character.

Kara Swisher (34:33)

He's not a sympathetic character anymore. And he has gotten off on the pedo thing. He got off on the 420 thing. He got up on funding secured. He's gotten off over and over again. And we. He either wears people down or continues to attack. Right when he lost in court to the center for Countering Digital Hate. He went back again. Or he pushed the government into bothering the person who founded it. I mean, this is the thing, is he just keeps on coming and like this fixation on the SAVE act, which is evidence free that there's issues that they're trying to solve here. And at the same time, here he is doing this kind of cool technology in Ukraine or the truck or the. I don't know if he's going to be successful in the chip project, but I wish you would just do that. You know what I mean?

Scott Galloway (35:20)

I mean, I was going to say it's called Pivot, but there could be a podcast. It's called Musk. He creates so much news. I mean, the guy is a big thinker and creates a lot of news. Look, I am super excited about the prospect. Anything that helps the brave people of Ukraine and their army defend against Russia and push back on it, I applaud. I applaud Elon for doing this. I'm thrilled about it. At the same time, it represents something much scarier, and that is there shouldn't be one individual that has the ability, who is unelected and not subject to any sort of what he feels like. The biggest criticism, I would argue the

Kara Swisher (36:04)

biggest say if he got Molly from the lady in the bathroom.

Scott Galloway (36:08)

One of the most valid criticisms of Trump, Trump's unilateral war with just one other country, is he didn't even get any sort of advice or approval from Congress, much less to do what George Herbert Walker Bush did, and that is get a consent or get approval from the UN he acted. Some people would argue unilaterally. Now, a lot of people would say he didn't act unilaterally. He got 79 million votes. Okay. Musk is changing the face of war. Fortunately for what I think is in the right direction in this case. But should. That's right. But should one man be able to accrete so much wealth and technical mastery that he or she can change the course of civilization and war? We keep talking about the wisdom of crowds. The ignorance of the individual is really frightening.

Kara Swisher (36:54)

Yeah. Ooh, I like that theory.

Scott Galloway (36:56)

And that is wisdom.

Kara Swisher (36:57)

Crowd. The ignorance.

Scott Galloway (36:57)

I just made that up. I think the mall is kicking in.

Kara Swisher (36:59)

You always do things like this.

Scott Galloway (37:01)

There you go. You're just being nice to me because we got an argument this weekend.

Kara Swisher (37:04)

We did, but now that's done.

Scott Galloway (37:06)

The.

Kara Swisher (37:06)

The

Scott Galloway (37:09)

power corrupts. And absolute power absolutely corrupts. And we should not have any individual that accretes so much wealth and power and technical sophistication that they can change the course of civilization. Now, some people would argue that Napoleon did that or Genghis Khan, but these people were incredibly.

Kara Swisher (37:26)

There's a lot of people who've done

Scott Galloway (37:27)

that, but they were incredibly savvy, and they worked their way through power structures, and ultimately, ultimately, they fell. But I am uncomfortable with someone who is not elected by people, who's not accountable to anybody, who can pay his way out of, or appeal his way out of any civil or possibly criminal. I mean, Christ, I hate to go here. The only person imprisoned from the Epstein files is a woman. So it's okay if she should be there. I'm not arguing that. My belief is there should be other people in this hell's next door.

Kara Swisher (38:02)

Yeah. One who agrees. Yeah.

Scott Galloway (38:03)

Any.

Kara Swisher (38:04)

It's like they shut down a lot of these investigations right at the beginning of the trial.

Scott Galloway (38:07)

But what happens when. But what happens if Musk all of a sudden decides, I'm pissed off with the left criticizing me? I'll show them. And he turns off Starlink in the middle of a ground offensive, trying to push Russia, trying to push Ukraine out of.

Kara Swisher (38:23)

You know, I'm just telling you, it's up to the lady in the bathroom with Molly. That's the problem. Seriously.

Scott Galloway (38:31)

But that kind of summarizes it.

Kara Swisher (38:32)

What does it feel like today? Did he get. Did he have a nice night with his lad, or did he have a bad fight?

Scott Galloway (38:38)

So, to a certain extent, Donald Trump, in some ways. Well, I mean, he's more dangerous. But what's more dangerous? Someone who commands the US Military, Musk. Or someone who commands two thirds of the world's low earth satellites. Yeah, but has.

Kara Swisher (38:51)

I say Musk. Musk.

Scott Galloway (38:53)

But is not elected by the public. I mean, you can make the argument that, okay, we chose Trump.

Kara Swisher (39:00)

We didn't. But Congress. We also believe in three parts of

Scott Galloway (39:04)

government, and that's agreed. But he has more legitimacy, correct? He has more legitimacy to make these type of decisions than Musk.

Kara Swisher (39:11)

Yes, but not this decision.

Scott Galloway (39:13)

When I first heard this, I'm like, oh, that's great. Good for him. I even put out a thread saying, well done, Elon Musk. And then I thought, fuck, I want him to have to go to Senators Kelly Klobuchar, the Joint Chiefs of Staff.

Kara Swisher (39:28)

What should I do? He may have.

Scott Galloway (39:29)

And Senator Warner. You think he might have.

Kara Swisher (39:31)

I don't know. I don't know.

Scott Galloway (39:32)

He might be coordinating.

Kara Swisher (39:34)

Who knows?

Scott Galloway (39:34)

That's a fair point. Maybe he's coordinating with our Joint Chiefs.

Kara Swisher (39:37)

My doubt who knows? I suspect he's probably, I mean, I don't know. When I got approached many years ago by that Ukrainian defense person asking if I could call him to turn to stop geofencing Crimea, I was astonished. And they were like, could you do that? I'm like, why is one person deciding this? Like, why isn't the guy. I remember that's where was the center of our beef and at the. I was. It was anyway.

Scott Galloway (40:02)

But also I do want to say, I do think just calling balls and strikes. I think the. The Tesla semi truck is a winner.

Kara Swisher (40:09)

Looks great.

Scott Galloway (40:10)

I think it's a winner.

Kara Swisher (40:10)

Looks great. We give you it that it looks good. We'll see how, how if they can roll it out. But it looks great. Agreed. Agreed. It looked, I was looking. I was reading all about it this weekend. It looks fantastic.

Scott Galloway (40:19)

And not only that, but that is.

Kara Swisher (40:21)

He could make innovative things. That's pretty good.

Scott Galloway (40:23)

The guy is clearly a genius.

Kara Swisher (40:25)

All right, stop focusing on hate, Elon. Focus on the things you do that are good.

Scott Galloway (40:29)

And I've always thought that ground zero, the most obvious autonomous, something like 90% of the damage done to our highways is trucks. And you talk about 10pm to 4am it's not a great job. It's not a healthy job. So it's always felt like if there's ground zero for autonomous, I've always thought it's long haul trucking.

Kara Swisher (40:53)

Yep. You should look at my interviews with the Aurora CEO Chris Urmson, who started Google Google, the Google economy.

Scott Galloway (40:59)

Well, I was going to say how is Aurora doring but I don't want to go.

Kara Swisher (41:01)

Yeah. I'm just saying I love all these efforts and I'm thrilled.

Scott Galloway (41:04)

The truck looks. I've never wanted to own a semi tractor trailer. I'm like, I'd like one of those.

Kara Swisher (41:09)

You are absolutely not getting one. Never. I don't think you've ever driven me anywhere and I don't think you're ever going to.

Scott Galloway (41:14)

I'm a great driver. I grew up in California. I'm stick from the age of 16 and a half.

Kara Swisher (41:18)

I'm a great driver. You have never driven me in a car.

Scott Galloway (41:20)

Well, what do you want? Two sensitive men so both people can be crying in the car and the parallel parking spot remains.

Kara Swisher (41:26)

I have driven you. I have driven you in a car, but I don't think you've ever driven.

Scott Galloway (41:28)

You are. You're a good driver.

Kara Swisher (41:30)

Yeah, I know. I don't think anyone would say that. I'm an angry driver. I try not to drive as Much as I can.

Scott Galloway (41:36)

You had to sit on two phone books. That was a little unsettling.

Kara Swisher (41:38)

No, you didn't.

Scott Galloway (41:39)

You're a big guy and you did. To see over the steering wheel.

Kara Swisher (41:41)

I put you in a mini. I did. I put you in a mini. I sit way up front, so. The Trump administration has also unveiled a national. Speaking of control of tech oligarchs over. Our government unveiled a national AI framework to replace state by state rules with one federal standard. The framework proposes regulations like child safety rules and standards for energy use of data centers. It calls Congress to address issues like intellectual property rights and preventing AI systems from being used to silence or censor lawful political expression or dissent. The administration says it wants to work with Congress to convert the framework into a bill in the coming months. I mean, I'm sorry, they are so. Everyone involved in the government right now is a tech industry shill. So this is not. The states have passed, I think, 71 laws in 27 states. It is chaotic. At the same time, the government has abrogated all power to these tech companies. So I think. I don't think any good will come of this. Your thoughts?

Scott Galloway (42:36)

There needs to be federal legislation.

Kara Swisher (42:38)

Absolutely.

Scott Galloway (42:39)

Because if California, in an attempt to maintain its economic growth, all of a sudden puts in place technologies that might inhibit the growth, such as, okay, you can't use AI for surveillance of Americans. I mean, the CIA has a role, one of the most covert organizations in the world, which I, by the way, think is the only organization in history that can keep a secret. They have a rule. They don't kill American citizens. There needs to be regulation and legislation around AI and it needs to be a thoughtful discussion. But what I hate is just all of a sudden a race to the bottom around AI where, okay, Texas says it's a free for all and you can use it to surveil Americans or create. Create.

Kara Swisher (43:28)

I get it. It's just our government has not. Our federal government never made social media laws. They never made privacy laws.

Scott Galloway (43:34)

Well, they're not making laws. What they're saying is they're doing this

Kara Swisher (43:36)

to create better laws. They're doing it to get everyone out

Scott Galloway (43:40)

of tech's way to delay and obfuscate any attempt to regulate.

Kara Swisher (43:43)

Yeah, I think that's if they were doing it for they would get together with Congress and do actual laws that are in everybody's interests and that tech would be avoided. Voice of many in this thing. They don't want to. Let me say this is yet another attempt to abrogate states are the only groups that are doing something somewhat effective and they shouldn't be doing it, but they have to because the federal government has lost all responsibility for regulating what is a very frightening situation. That we should all be cooperating, not just in this country, but globally around AI safety, where it's going. Who's, you know, on jobs, on child safety, on cancer research, on everything. There should be rule about surveilling citizens, et cetera, et cetera. This is not an administration I trust to do it because everyone in a position of power has someone else behind them who is in tech and they are all grabbing for things.

Scott Galloway (44:40)

Well, in 2025, seven of the largest AI companies in America, Snap, X, OpenAI, ByteDance, Microsoft, Alphabet and Meta, spent over $50 million on federal lobbying. And by the way, way best ROI in history. It's not AI or CapEx. It's lobbying. And in 2025, hired 87 lobbyists, roughly one of every six members of Congress. OpenAI has ramped up its lobbying spend nearly 70% from last year. What's interesting is one of the greatest brand declines in history over the shortest period of time. AI. Think about how excited we were about AI just 24 months ago. 1. A Pew Research Research poll found that Americans are five times more concerned than excited about AI. There are roughly double the amount of Americans who think AI's effect on society will be negative than there are people who think it'll be positive.

Kara Swisher (45:35)

Worse, brand destruction. You're right.

Scott Galloway (45:38)

The brand erosion in AI is historic. Two thirds of Americans think that AI will eliminate more jobs than it creates. And less than a third of Americans Trust AI. And 3/4 of Americans think AI poses a threat to humanity.

Kara Swisher (45:52)

Existential threat. Let me just say ahead of the midterm, Silicon Valley has poured $100 million into a network of PACs and organizations to advocate for these strict AI regulations. And a report from Public Citizen found that one in four federal lobbyists now work in AI. Think about why do you think they're working there, kids, they're not to help you. They're there to help them and they have the White House captive. In any case, it would be a great idea to do some bills, but not with this administration, not in its

Scott Galloway (46:20)

current the opening for a Democrat. I spoke to someone this morning running for president and there no one on the Democratic side has been able to say we need federal AI regulation focused on these three things. No one has been able to articulate what is needed around regulation and AI. And it is a real opening for one of them because it's the technology of the day. It's created a huge amount of anxiety and yet no one has been able to articulate a vision for what sensible regulation that protects Americans while ensuring that our thoroughbreds continue to run. Because there really is economic value and we don't want to hamstring our best and brightest such that China gets out ahead. There are real concerns on both sides, but someone needs to thread the needle here and come out and say AI regulation at a federal legislation focused on the following three things. It's a big opening for a Democrat.

Kara Swisher (47:15)

It is. You know, I just did a two hour interview with Tristan Harris. He said the exact same thing. It's a big opener.

Scott Galloway (47:20)

Tristan.

Kara Swisher (47:21)

Tristan. He's so good. You know, we've been talking for 10 years about this issue.

Scott Galloway (47:26)

Yeah, no, he was early to the, to the I hate big tech game. He's very compelling too.

Kara Swisher (47:31)

You are incorrect. He does not. He's like Kara Swisher. He does not hate it. He doesn't like what they're doing with. They've made a mess of our house. That's how I feel.

Scott Galloway (47:38)

I feel shamed. I feel shamed.

Kara Swisher (47:41)

He has a great new documentary coming on called the Apocalyptome AI Apocalypse. He's both positive and negative about it.

Scott Galloway (47:47)

Apocalyptimus.

Kara Swisher (47:48)

Apocalyptimist. It's called the AI guy.

Scott Galloway (47:51)

Creature that lives at 30,000ft below the Apocalyptomist. Sperm whales.

Kara Swisher (47:54)

No, it lives in the bathroom with the woman who has Molly.

Scott Galloway (47:56)

Apocalyptomist.

Kara Swisher (47:57)

Anyway, let's go on a quick break. You should have him on Apocalyptomist. All right, let's go on a quick break. When we come back, nexstar is approved to merge with rival Tegna. Support for this show comes from Shipstation. When your company is growing fast, order fulfillment can make or break your success. Shipstation's intelligence driven platform brings order management, rate shopping, inventory and returns, warehouse systems and comprehensive analytics all in one place, saving customers 15 hours per week on fulfillment. With Shipstation, everything you need to manage getting your product to customers is in one place. You can connect to over 200 sales channels and instead of five to seven disconnected tools, you've got one. You can also set up time saving automations. Shipstation picks the best carrier, finds you the best rate, prints labels in bulk and sends tracking updates. Done. Share tracking details can cut customer service inquiries by 12% returns. Management can give you data on what's coming back and why. And analytics can show you where you're saving and where to optimize, try ShipStation for free for 60 days with full access to all features. No credit card needed. Go to shipstation.com and use the code pivot for 60 days for free. 60 days gives you plenty of time to see exactly how much time and money you're saving on every shipment. That's shipstation.com code pivot shipstation.com code pivot.

Scott Galloway (49:29)

Support for today's show comes from solectquote Life Insurance it can get confusing if you already have a policy, do you know how much you're paying for it? And do you know how much coverage you're actually getting? There's a good chance you're paying too much for too little. It's not always the easiest thing to think about, but getting it right can be simple with Selectquote for over 40 years, Selectquote has been one of the most trusted brokers in insurance, helping More than 2 million million Americans secure over $700 billion in coverage. Their mission is simple to find you the right insurance policy for your unique needs. They shop, you save, and if you don't have a medical exam, it's no problem. Selectquote partners with providers that offer same day coverage for up to $2 million. No doctor's visit required. When you connect with Selectquote, a licensed insurance agent can reach out right away to help you find a policy that fits both your life and your budget. Life insurance is never cheaper than it is to today. Get the right life insurance for you for less and save more than 50%@SelectQuote.com pivot save more than 50% on term life insurance@SelectQuote.com pivot today to get started, that's SelectQuote.com pivot. Support for the show comes from upwork. The fastest growing businesses aren't doing more quickly, they're simply delegating smarter. And with upwork you can bring in expert freelance fast so you can keep moving forward for the long haul. Upwork is a one stop platform to find, hire and pay extra freelancers across web and software development, data and analytics, marketing and business operations. Upwork can help grow your business by giving you fast access to specialized talent across 125 plus categories. You can fill skill gaps, launch projects faster and scale support up or down without committing to full time headcount. And with Upwork Business plus you can access the top 1% of talent on Upwork and with AI powered shortlisting so you'll get matched to the right freelancer in under six hours. No endless searching required. Thousands of Growing businesses already trust Upwork to hire flexible, high quality freelance talent for everything from one off projects to ongoing support. It's free to sign up and posting a job is easy. You can visit Upwork.com right now to post your job for free and connect with top talent ready to help your business grow. That's Upwork.com Upwork.com.

Kara Swisher (51:46)

Scott we're back with more news. Broadcast station owner nextstar will merge with rival Tegna after the FCC signed off on the $6.2 billion acquisition, creating the largest operator of TV stations in the country. This is unprecedented. The commission has waived the rule that bars a single company from owning TV stations that reach over 39% of the, you know, US households. Guess what? The new entity is allowing Nexstar to own 60%, near doubling the combined company would own over 250 stations reaching over half of American households. Eight states have filed emergency motions to stop the merger. As usual, Brendan Carr, the bureaucratic toady, just waved it right through because it's their conservative and they are. And they were thanking President Trump. They're the people behind the Kimmel mask. They're one of the people. Conservatives are actually split on the issue. Some thinking it's a great thing because it helps the conservative side, their team, the other people feel as correctly. You wouldn't like it if a bunch of liberals own these like 60% of the stations. That said mainstream media has leaned. Well, it's lean, middle left, middle left kind of things. Just what do you think about this? I mean obviously this is open. This is something. This is Rupert Murdoch's wet dream from many years ago. The ability to own things across the country. Although. So who's watching local news at the same time?

Scott Galloway (53:01)

I'll tell you who's watching local news. Really old people.

Kara Swisher (53:04)

Yeah, exactly.

Scott Galloway (53:05)

I could program local news. It's called what stupid people did today. Two people were mugged in a parking lot at 4am this morning.

Kara Swisher (53:11)

Or the it could happen to you

Scott Galloway (53:12)

story and the weather killer bees. It could happen to you.

Kara Swisher (53:16)

It could happen to you. Mold on your penis. It could happen to you.

Scott Galloway (53:20)

Are you losing hair because of your drinking water?

Kara Swisher (53:23)

It could happen to you.

Scott Galloway (53:24)

I'm torn because the idea of, of any one entity controlling that much information flow to a populace that disproportionately votes, it feels, feels uncomfortable. At the same time, these companies are in structural decline and the only way they survive is through consolidation and cost cutting. I was on the board. It's now time for the latest episode of Scott's Weak Flexes I was on the board of a company that was a Yellow Pages company. Company.

Kara Swisher (53:55)

Oh.

Scott Galloway (53:57)

And it's one of my best investments because typically these companies, we know local stations are fucked, but they're not going to go out of business as quickly as people think. So, for example, in 1999 you could buy a blockbuster. Everyone knew Blockbuster was going away. But in 1999 you could buy a blockbuster franchise for two times cash flow. And they did go away, but they went away 13 years later. I mean, you 4 or 6x there's

Kara Swisher (54:19)

a lot of money.

Scott Galloway (54:20)

So you can buy these things at pretty distressed prices. Prices. And then you need to consolidate the back end back to the Yellow Pages company. We knew that the Yellow Pages business was going to go away. You could buy these things at two times cash flow. So we would go buy every regional Yellow Pages company, quite frankly, consolidate the back end, which is Latin for lay off everyone but the salespeople. And then we went and bought the biggest Yellow Pages company in Canada and then the biggest one in Australia. And it's a great business now to a certain extent. Is that bad? Is that too much concentration of power? So these companies are melting ice cubes. They need to consolidate.

Kara Swisher (54:57)

Well, they were when the Yellow Pages mattered, but go ahead. Which they did, kids.

Scott Galloway (55:02)

But it's the same thing here. These businesses are going out of business slowly. And so I'm of two minds. I don't trust this FTC to make these decisions. I'd want to see an economist, say fcc. I'm sorry, the fcc. I'd want to see an economist issue or thoughtful people say that the, the risk of job destruction, the risk of having the capital to do anything regarding investigative journal journalism at City hall or the local, you know, local courthouse that these guys need to consolidate. Having said that, this level of concentration feels pretty unhealthy.

Kara Swisher (55:39)

Yeah, 60 is a lot. I think you're right. I, you know, when, remember we were on. When we were on the tour and you know, or it was on one thing and everyone was asking me about CVS and I'm like, show of hands of who's watching it. And it was like, no relevant. And I thought, so we're worried about one irritating person at a station that's. That mean a network that's declining faster than all the others. By the way, the other two are doing okay. They're double in size, essentially. I was like, so no one's watching it. And even the strongest player is, is slowly dying. You know, who's doing okay? They definitely throw off A lot of money, right? Like your Yellow Pages thing did, right now.

Scott Galloway (56:17)

They throw off a lot of money. In 2000, 17% of America watched the Academy Awards. You know what percentage watched last year?

Kara Swisher (56:23)

It went down, right?

Scott Galloway (56:24)

Like 3, 5%.

Kara Swisher (56:26)

Yeah, yeah. That's the thing. And so you're sort of sitting there, you're like, okay, it's really irritating and grotesque. And at the same time of this consolidation and these people that are doing, you know, performative, you know, blowjobs to Donald Trump, which they were, you know,

Scott Galloway (56:41)

around Kimmel, there's no such thing as a performative blowjob.

Kara Swisher (56:43)

Okay.

Scott Galloway (56:44)

That's an oxymoron.

Kara Swisher (56:45)

I don't know. I have never done one. I'm not gonna go into those.

Scott Galloway (56:48)

I'm not gonna touch that.

Kara Swisher (56:49)

Don't touch it.

Scott Galloway (56:50)

But I have a filter that says, let me say nothing, Scott.

Kara Swisher (56:53)

Let me say I haven't.

Scott Galloway (56:53)

You should say nothing.

Kara Swisher (56:54)

I have had sex with a man, but I have not done a blowjob. Anyway, thank you for that information. Cause that's gross.

Scott Galloway (57:00)

Well, you know, Taylor Swift writes all these songs about men breaking up with her, but she's never written a song about blowjobs. Connect them dots. Connect the dots.

Kara Swisher (57:08)

Okay. All right. In any case, I had the most interesting. Anyway, I'm not going to go into it, so.

Scott Galloway (57:17)

God, is this jet lag or are you actually saying this?

Kara Swisher (57:19)

No, I just was. I have a whole Gay Taylor thing called the My Gay Gaylar playlist on Spotify. Anyway, whatever.

Scott Galloway (57:26)

What were we talking about? Blank.

Kara Swisher (57:28)

Now, listen to Cornelia street is all I can tell to everybody. So. So let me get. What am I getting back on track? I don't think it matters. And yet it does, because they do have an impact on a certain population. And watching someone like my mom or other people get twisted by propaganda on, say, a Fox News, it does actually matter. Right. It's really bad information. That said, I don't think most of these local stations, except for a very small few, do journalism anymore.

Scott Galloway (57:57)

They matter in local politics.

Kara Swisher (57:59)

That's right. But they don't do much journalism. Journalism. And I don't think they matter much.

Scott Galloway (58:04)

Hearst did this genius move and it went and bought all the local news stations and swing districts. Because basically, the dirty secret of specialty retail is that for 45 weeks a year, it loses money. And then for seven weeks, it just breaks in a shit ton of money, basically between Thanksgiving and Christmas. The dirty secret of these local news stations in these swing districts is they lose money for 22 months, and then for two months. They quintuple their appetite rates is so and so overspends. Trying to, you know, trying to be the local representative.

Kara Swisher (58:32)

Yeah, that's where it happens.

Scott Galloway (58:33)

But do you know. Do you know the average age of a Fox viewer?

Kara Swisher (58:37)

The average 69, 70.

Scott Galloway (58:39)

That's exactly right.

Kara Swisher (58:41)

I think that's young.

Scott Galloway (58:43)

So that means that if a 40 year old accidentally turns on Fox, a 97 year old is also watching. Do you know what the average age of a local TV news.

Kara Swisher (58:54)

70. 80.

Scott Galloway (58:55)

Dead. They're dead, Kara.

Kara Swisher (58:57)

Anyway. All right, Scott, one more quick break. We'll be back for wins and fails. Once upon a dismal day, Bob's ice

Scott Galloway (59:07)

cream van looked gloomy and gray. Although he had big ambitions, his socials lacked creative vision.

Kara Swisher (59:14)

That bad? Maybe vamp it up a tad.

Scott Galloway (59:17)

I have an idea.

Kara Swisher (59:18)

Bob launched the Canva and got into gear.

Scott Galloway (59:20)

Create the video in the vampire theme and make it the funniest. I mean, it went viral. Bob's business a revival. Now imagine what your dreams can become when you put imagination to work@canva.com now at the Home Depot. Receive 12 months special financing and free basic installation on carpet projects with lifeproof. Lifeproof with pet proof technology, home decorator collection and traffic master carpets. Bring a new look to your floors or give them a durable surface that stands up to life's tough messes. Get 12 months special financing on installed carpet projects right now at the Home Depot. Offer valid March 12 through March 29, 2026. Exclusions and additional charges may apply for licenses. See homedepot.com licensenumbers it's not just something you made. It's the privilege that you get to work with your hands. It's building something that serves a purpose. Proof that you have the grit to keep. At Timberland. We understand you take your craft seriously. And we do too. Which is why our products are built to the highest quality. We put in the work so you can perfect yours with purpose, in every detail and crafted with intention. Timberland built on craft. Visit timberland.com to shop.

Kara Swisher (60:40)

Okay, Scott, let's hear some wins and fails. May I go? Of course I'm gonna do a win. Let me just tell you. Project Hail Mary just brought in $80 million at the box office. That's a record opening for Amazon. Did you see it mgm? I did. I went on Friday night.

Scott Galloway (60:54)

I heard it's about friendship. I'm sorry to interrupt you.

Kara Swisher (60:56)

It's about a friendship between a man and rocks. It is an alien who looks like a pile of rocks. It is a wonderful movie. It is about science. It is fun. It is. It made me. It's infectiously delightful and it deserves. I can see why I did $80 million. The box office. I saw it on I IMAX film. You don't need to really. There's some beautiful things in it and some beautiful photography, but you hardly. You could watch it. It's a wonderful. It feels like a little like E.T. a little bit. It's got. It just is a wonderful movie. Ryan Gosling is delightful. He's the kind. Scott, you need to see it because it's the kind of man you want to be.

Scott Galloway (61:33)

A few people have said I'd love it.

Kara Swisher (61:34)

You would because he's the guy that you want to be. He's sort of a reluctant hero, of course. And at the same time it's about ingeniousness. It's about the same writer of the Martian, same book and everyone what's interesting, someone told me people read Project Hail Mary. Someone who I didn't think read much read both the Martian and Project Hail Mary. It's a lot of plot, not great writing, but the movies become marvelous. I think I love the Martian. It's about sort of fix it things. Everyone in it is great. This rock character that becomes his friend. They're trying to solve humanity's problems together. Is you start to really love this character. It's a really great character which is voiced by a puppeteer, I think a very well known puppeteer. Amazing. Like I can't believe at first I was like I'm gonna look at a rock character this entire time. And it ended up being delightful. I gotta say it deserves. It did much better than people thought. Amazon. This is their first big hit that is an original and congratulations to Amazon for this, I have to say, wonderful movie. Again, Ryan Gosling can do anything. He can sing, he can dance, he's funny. He was great on episode snl. Wonderful. What a movie star. But also totally approachable as a dude. That's why you'd like it. My fail, you know, there's so many obvious ones. I mean. More than nine months after its announcements, Trump mobile phone still hasn't launched. It never is going to launch, by the way. There are a bunch of grifters. But I think probably something that got a lot of press was President Trump's reaction to the death of Robert Mueller, former FBI director, special counsel and bronze star Marine veteran. He died this weekend at the age of 81. I had no idea he was sick. While former President Bush and Obama share their tributes to him Trump went the other direction, posting, I'm glad he's dead. You know, then Scott Besant, that little quizzling, weak, weakling, was like, oh, he was the victim here of Robert Mueller, and so he should be able to say that. But it does open. It is really shocking when everyone sort of gave the left a hard time for not being unhappy that Charlie Kirk had died. And by the way, it was a terrible and murderous way, and nobody should be celebrating that. This was just. Just, like, very typical. And it sort of opens the door to when someday Trump sheds these mortar coils for anyone to say that. So it just was like, it's another gross, chaotic, mentally deranged madness of King George moment. I was like, are you. Can you just shut the fuck up and not give us your thoughts on every awful thing that crosses your increasingly aging brain?

Scott Galloway (64:07)

Yeah, I love those. But we're increasingly. It's like when you hang out, people begin to look like they're dogs. We're becoming the same person. My fail was the same thing, so I'll take the other side of it. But before we get to that, I want to just talk a little bit more about blowjobs. Do you think it should bother you if your spouse has given hundreds of blowjobs to random men? Or is my wife overreacting?

Kara Swisher (64:30)

Oh, my God, that's good. But I bet you'd be good at giving Bojo anyway.

Scott Galloway (64:37)

Sorry, My win.

Kara Swisher (64:38)

I would think you'd be better than me at it, but go ahead.

Scott Galloway (64:42)

All right, enough. Even I have limits.

Kara Swisher (64:44)

I knew that would stop you.

Scott Galloway (64:45)

I even. I have limits.

Kara Swisher (64:47)

I knew it.

Scott Galloway (64:48)

Okay, so I don't know how to make a clean segue here. So my. We. We. We talk a lot. About what? Talking about an aspirational vision for masculinity. And I think, unfortunately, it's been confused with volume, dominance, and attention. And that's, you know, that's not strength, Kara. That's just insecurity with a ring light or a Twitter handle. And if you want an actual template for masculinity, you could do a lot worse than Robert Mueller. And this was a guy. He was a Marine in Vietnam, by the way. He volunteered. He didn't avoid deferments. No bone spurs. Also in high school, captain of his lacrosse, hockey, and baseball team. An amazing physical athlete. Captain all three teams. Decided he should be the leader of that team. Marina, Vietnam, where he earned a bronze star, went on to lead the FBI for over a decade, and then later in his career, he took on one of the most politically radioactive Investigations in modern history. And how did he handle it? There was no theatrics. There was no personal branding. There was no need to be at the center of the story. He just did the job. And before all of that, as I mentioned, a very serious athlete and a scholar, went to Princeton, Bronze star and get this, this. Married for over 60 years, raising a family, including, I believe, two kids, while building a life of service. You know, that's a decent outline for masculinity. Not performative outrage, no constant self promotion, but discipline, restraint, and commitment, you know, to your work, your country, and your family. And his posture was simple, Simple. You know, service matters more than me. The work matters more than me. And I feel like with today who we should be looking to for role models and masculinity, that's what we've lost. We've started rewarding people or men for being loud instead of being reliable and that for being visible instead of being credible or empathetic. And this guy was real strength. It's quiet, it's showing up, up. It's doing hard things, and it's not making everything about you. And so when we talk about using masculinity as a code or a guide for young men, if you're trying to figure this out, what it looks like, here's a filter. Are you optimizing for attention or for service? Right. Because one of them is more immediate, but the other compounds over a lifetime. And I found it so upsetting that this guy, who's such an outstanding role model and such a fantastic example of what it means to be an American and what it means to be a man, that his family would have to endure that nonsense.

Kara Swisher (68:01)

Yep. I agree.

Scott Galloway (68:01)

So he'll be buried.

Kara Swisher (68:04)

That was the story, is Trump's reaction to it.

Scott Galloway (68:06)

He'll be laid to rest with full, you know, full honors, and there's few people that deserve it more anyway. Captain Robert Mueller, United States Marine Corps, Rest in peace. What a wonderful example he set for all Americans and especially young men. That's my win. That's it. That's all I got. You said the fail.

Kara Swisher (68:26)

Okay. All right. I have one more win. Scott and I did get in a tiff this weekend, and we settled it. And I have to tell you, you acted like a man. I have to say, you handled. A lot of people wouldn't have called me back. We had a little tiff. I was a little snarky. You, we got mad at each other. And I have to say, I said to my wife, I said, scott, handle it like a Real man. Like, really. We had a good talk. We worked it out. We'll always have little tiffs. Not very many. But I have to say, you acted with great dignity and openness.

Scott Galloway (68:53)

I appreciate that, Kara.

Kara Swisher (68:54)

It was really. I was really very much happy with it, I have to say.

Scott Galloway (68:59)

That's nice. That makes me feel good.

Kara Swisher (69:00)

You acted like a woman, really is what you did. It's like Carrie Coon.

Scott Galloway (69:04)

Well, that's the left version of a man. Just the unwhiteless.

Kara Swisher (69:08)

We should be on White Lotus. We know those people. They should make us White Lotus. Tulum, tulum. With Molly in the bathroom.

Scott Galloway (69:16)

Oh, my God.

Kara Swisher (69:17)

Finally, Kara takes Molly and that's the plot. What happens from there.

Scott Galloway (69:21)

Someone's gotta die, though. Who's gonna die?

Kara Swisher (69:24)

Obviously you.

Scott Galloway (69:24)

That's pretty awesome.

Kara Swisher (69:25)

Come on. Obviously. Anyway, and then I'll have to solve the mystery.

Scott Galloway (69:29)

As long as it involves performative blowjobs from someone, I'm willing to take the risk.

Kara Swisher (69:32)

Solve the mystery anyway. We want to hear from you. Send us your questions about business, tech or whatever's on your mind. Go to nymag.com/to submit a question for the show or call 85551 PIVOT. Elsewhere in the Karen Scott universe this week and on with Kara Swisher. I spoke with experts about how the Trump administration is dramatically expanding the immigration detention system. I think it's really important to focus on things that people have lost a little attention to, especially this prison system we're building. Aaron Reichland Milnek, lawyer and senior fellow at the American Immigration Council, says Stephen Miller won't stop pushing for more deportations even if the focus has been off them of late. Let's listen to a clip.

Scott Galloway (70:09)

His goal is a million deportations a year. I don't think they're going to hit it, but they're going to try to spend every penny of that funding that they can in order to reach that goal. And that means more people caught up in this rapid system, more people held in detention, more people subject to awful conditions, and more people who see what's happening and say, I can't take it anymore. I just want to give up. Even if I could have a chance to stay in this country because I don't want to spend another day in this country hellhole.

Kara Swisher (70:35)

So anyway, let's just not lose focus on things. We tend to do that in this society right now. So I thought it was important to talk about the issue these detention.

Scott Galloway (70:42)

I'm glad you're doing that because one of the things I was thinking about is that so many really important issues, including incarceration in this country or in the United States. We're the most incarcerated country in the world. It bubbled up to be an issue where a lot of important people were talking about it and beginning to visit visit it and think thoughtfully about it. And it's been pushed down because we just have so much fucking nonsense crowding out of everything else.

Kara Swisher (71:07)

Right? That's the whole point. That's what they're doing. It's a flim flammery. And one of the things is it's easy when it's Minneapolis and we can see it. This stuff is hidden because they're behind this is where they want it, the hiddenness of it. But it gets out. And so I thought it was important to keep focused on things like this, which is why I did the Epstein survivors. I'm like, let's not forget, let's not forget, let's not forget. Anyway, it was a really good panel with a really good group of people. Okay, that's the show. Thanks for listening to Pivot and be sure to like and subscribe to our YouTube channel. We'll be back on Friday.

Scott Galloway (71:38)

Today's show was produced by Lara Naiman, Zoe Marcus and Taylor Griffin. Ernie and her Todd engineered this episode. Jim Mackle edited the video. Thanks also to Drew Bros, Ms. Siervera and Dan Shalon. Nishar Khoras, Vox Media's executive producer podcast. Make sure to follow Pivot on your favorite podcast platform. Thank you for listening to Pivot from New York Magazine and Vox Media. You can subscribe to the magazine@nymag.com pod we'll be back later this week for a breakdown of all things tech and business. Robert Swan Mueller iii, Captain, United States Marines, Rest in PE.