Pivot Podcast Summary

Episode: Zelensky's White House Return, Newsom Trolls Trump, and Guest Co-Host Abby Phillip

Date: August 19, 2025
Hosts: Kara Swisher (Pivot), Abby Phillip (Guest co-host, CNN Newsnight anchor)

Episode Overview

This episode features CNN’s Abby Phillip filling in for Scott Galloway. Kara and Abby dive into the most pressing stories in politics and tech, focusing on President Zelensky’s tense White House visit, Gavin Newsom’s social media trolling of Trump, and the Trump administration’s corporate “loyalty” scoring. The discussion is candid, incisive, and wry, blending news breakdowns with reflections on journalism, political strategy, and personal insights.

Key Segments & Discussion Highlights

1. Abby Phillip on Viral Moments and Moderating Contentious Debates

Timestamp: 01:21 – 12:34

• Handling Viral Controversy

  • Kara and Abby discuss Abby's viral exchange with fitness influencer Jillian Michaels, who unexpectedly downplayed American slavery on Abby's show.
  • Abby reflects on the surprise and her approach to moderating guests with extreme or revisionist views.

  “Even when I disagree with people, I respect their right to embarrass themselves on national television.” — Abby Phillip [04:55]

• The Role of Moderation & Guardrails

  • Abby explains her philosophy: letting guests share views but stepping in to prevent intentional misinformation or personal attacks.
  • She clarifies that outrageous statements aren’t anticipated or manufactured for virality.

• Polarization & Productive Debate

  • The polarization in America is not being solved on-air, but Abby believes in creating space for authentic, sometimes messy, conversation rather than parallel partisan monologues.

  “We need to have more honesty about what it says about our democracy, our values as individuals and as a community, that we want certain things for our country or we don't.” — Abby Phillip [11:20]

2. Abby Phillip’s Book on Jesse Jackson

Timestamp: 12:34 – 21:34

• Background & Motivation

  • Abby’s first book is A Dream Deferred: Jesse Jackson and the Fight for Black Political Power (out in October).
  • She chose Jackson due to his outsized, often misunderstood, influence on Democratic Party coalition politics, and noted the lack of comprehensive recent works on him.

• Reframing Jackson’s Legacy

  • Jackson was a populist, a forerunner of coalition-building in the Democratic Party, and a national celebrity whose story was filtered by white media gatekeepers.

  “He was the celebrity candidate before Donald Trump… He came in second place in 1988 – if he hadn’t won concessions from the Democratic Party… Barack Obama probably wouldn’t have been the nominee in 2008.” — Abby Phillip [16:51]

• Jackson as a Populist, Not Only a Racial Figure

  “People misrepresent him as this person who's all about race. But he was arguing the real commonality between people should be their interest—their economic interests.” — Abby Phillip [20:56]

3. Zelensky’s White House Visit, Trump–Putin Relations

Timestamp: 21:34 – 29:35

• Extraordinary Diplomatic Moment

  • Zelensky returns to the White House facing a newly skeptical Trump whose posture after his Alaska summit with Putin has alarmed European allies.
  • European leaders flocking to DC is compared to post-9/11 urgency; it demonstrates anxiety over Trump potentially going against NATO consensus.

• Trump’s “America First” Foreign Policy

  • Trump is pushing Ukraine to settle for peace without reversing Russian annexation or joining NATO—positions aligning with Putin’s interests.

  “Trump really believes he can get Putin to the desired outcome by simply treating him right... But Putin doesn’t care. He wants what he wants for Russian empire.” — Abby Phillip [23:28]

• Danger of Details and Security Guarantees

  “The devil is 100, 1000% in the details here. Which is not Trump’s strong suit.” — Kara Swisher [24:36]

• Melania Trump’s “Peace Letter” to Putin

  • Melania writes a peculiar letter to Putin about Ukrainian children; debated if it was AI-generated. Both hosts see it as irrelevant.

  “Do I think it matters? No.” — Abby Phillip [29:11]

4. The Militarization of D.C.

Timestamp: 30:03 – 35:37

• National Guard Presence in the Capital

  • Republican governors are sending National Guard troops to D.C.; fears of a militarized city and a “hostile takeover” pervade, impacting business and residents’ sense of security.
  • Drop in restaurant traffic and downtown footfall cited as evidence that militarization doesn’t impart safety.

• Political Powerlessness & Federal Control

  • D.C. residents’ lack of representation amplified as Trump exerts authority.

  “The reality… the premise is that D.C. residents want this deep down, but people are avoiding being in the city right now because nobody wants to live in a society that is militarized.” — Abby Phillip [32:13]

• Rise of Trump’s Ideologically Aligned Enforcement

  • Discussion about the transformation of immigration agents and Secret Service into a “personal police force.”

  “It’s one of the most important developments in the last several months, and it’s gone almost entirely unchecked.” — Abby Phillip [35:21]

5. Gavin Newsom’s Social Media “Trolling” of Trump

Timestamp: 39:20 – 48:06

• Newsom’s Meme-centric Strategy

  • Newsom adopts Trump-style meme warfare, using ALL CAPS, AI images, and pop culture references to troll Trump over redistricting.
  • Abby is neutral about the entertainment value, questioning the electoral impact.

  “You can be well known, but that doesn’t mean you are more likely to be elected president.” — Abby Phillip [47:15]

• Democratic “Fire with Fire” Strategy

  • Democrats wrestle with whether to play by old rules or adopt more aggressive, even cynical tactics to counter GOP gerrymandering.

  “Gerrymandering needs to be resolved, but it's not gonna be resolved by one side just kind of laying down and getting rolled over.” — Abby Phillip [45:12]

6. Trump Administration’s Corporate Loyalty “Ranking”

Timestamp: 48:22 – 55:10

• Public Corporate Scorekeeping

  • The administration is reportedly ranking 550 companies for public support of Trump, similar to loyalty measures used in authoritarian regimes.
  • Companies like Uber, DoorDash, United, and AT&T are favored for participation and public statements.

• Businesses’ Adjustments Under Trumpism

  “If people thought corporate America was gonna be the place where there was gonna be resistance to Trump, you are not paying attention. It’s the last place.” — Abby Phillip [54:11]

• Cowardice vs. Profit

  “They have a fiduciary responsibility to their shareholders to do what they need to do… They will say, yes, Mr. Trump, you can own shares of our company; yes, Mr. Trump, you can select members of our board.” — Abby Phillip [54:37]

• Costco and Mifepristone

  • Jacked into the political fray, Costco will not dispense the abortion pill, citing lack of demand amid legal and grassroots activism pressure.

7. Wins and Fails

Timestamp: 59:07 – 66:45

• Kara’s Win:

  • Steve Wozniak’s public reflection on giving away his Apple wealth and pursuit of joy over power or money.

  “I gave all my Apple wealth away because wealth and power are not what I live for. I have a lot of fun and happiness.” — Steve Wozniak, as quoted by Kara [59:09]

• Kara’s Fail:

  • The rebranding of MSNBC to “msnow,” mocked as awkward and unmemorable.

• Abby’s Win:

  • Successfully navigating her daughter’s fourth birthday party.

  “I've kept a human alive for four years. I successfully planned a birthday party for said human.” — Abby Phillip [65:42]

• Abby’s Fail:

  • Trump’s anti-mail-in voting screed, calling for bans and espousing dangerous misinformation about states’ rights and the Constitution.

  “His opposition to mail-in voting just defies reality… I cannot wait to hear how states rights conservatives defend this, because not only does it make no sense at all, but his opposition to mail in voting just defies reality.” — Abby Phillip [63:56]

8. Broader Reflections & Closing Notes

Timestamp: 67:17 – End

• Fascism & Resistance

  • Clip from author Jason Stanley on the textbook path of an emerging fascist state in the US, and the need for tactical, present-day responses.

  “It's a kind of paint by numbers fascist dictatorship that is emerging…” — Jason Stanley [67:17]

• Echoing the Civil Rights Movement

  • The power of protest imagery and reframing as tools for change, as seen in historic and contemporary contexts.

Notable Quotes

• On moderating tough conversations:
  “I'm never bringing people on to say crazy things. People's decisions to say crazy things are never expected or predictable.” — Abby Phillip [07:17]

• On economic populism:
  “When you look at his [Jackson’s] actual campaigns, he was arguing... our commonality is our economic interests.” — Abby Phillip [20:56]

• On social media clout and presidential prospects:
  “I will just say that I don't think your presidential chances are related to your social media clout.” — Abby Phillip [47:01]

• On corporations under Trump:
  “If you think that there is not a thing that they're willing to do, you are wrong. Totally wrong. They will do it. All of it.” — Abby Phillip [54:37]

Timestamps for Key Segments

| Segment | Start | End | |-------------------------------------------------|------------|------------| | Abby’s Viral Moderating, Media Ethics | 01:21 | 12:34 | | Jesse Jackson Book & Legacy | 12:34 | 21:34 | | Zelensky’s Visit & Trump–Putin Summit | 21:34 | 29:35 | | Militarized D.C. and Civil Liberties | 30:03 | 35:37 | | Newsom’s Meme Warfare & Dem Strategy | 39:20 | 48:06 | | Trump’s Corporate Loyalty Rankings | 48:22 | 55:10 | | Wins and Fails | 59:07 | 66:45 | | Authoritarianism Warning (Clip from Stanley) | 67:17 | 68:26 |

Tone & Language

The tone is conversational, sharp, irreverent, and occasionally exasperated. Kara and Abby riff with candor and humor, but handle sensitive topics (slavery, militarization, authoritarian creep) with journalistic gravity.

For New Listeners

This episode distills the stakes and tensions underlying the news cycle in mid-2025: political polarization, the evolving lines between activism and journalism, the far-reaching influence of personality in politics, and the quiet ways institutions (corporate and public) respond—or fail to respond—to the shifting ground rules of democracy. Abby Phillip brings grounded insight as both a high-profile anchor and a newly minted author, keeping the conversation smart, accessible, and essential for anyone tracking the pulse of American politics.