Zuck's Masculine Energy, Bannon vs. Musk, and Wildfires Misinformation

Summary

Podcast Summary: Pivot – "Zuck's Masculine Energy, Bannon vs. Musk, and Wildfires Misinformation"

Release Date: January 14, 2025
Hosts: Kara Swisher and Scott Galloway
Platform: New York Magazine and Vox Media Podcast Network

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1. Supreme Court's TikTok Ban Decision

Timestamp: [06:00] – [11:04]

Scott Galloway initiates the discussion by addressing the Supreme Court's deliberations on upholding the TikTok ban. He outlines the justices' skepticism towards TikTok’s defense based on First Amendment rights, emphasizing national security concerns over the company's Chinese ownership.

Kara and Scott delve into:

• Justice Brown Jackson's Perspective: She views the ban as more about association than speech, aligning with national security interests.
• Justice Kagan and Gorsuch's Views: They acknowledge China's influence over TikTok but suggest less stringent measures like warning labels, though Scott doubts the feasibility of such solutions.

Notable Quote:

Scott Galloway: "Justice Brown Jackson said she saw the law as less about speech than association."

Insights:

• The Supreme Court is likely to uphold the ban without delay, disregarding potential political manipulations by figures like Donald Trump.
• The financial impact on TikTok is noted, with only 20% of its global revenue coming from the U.S., suggesting Meta's (Facebook) minimal direct stake.

2. Bannon vs. Musk: A Clash in MAGA Circles

Timestamp: [13:08] – [18:48]

The conversation shifts to the ongoing feud between Steve Bannon and Elon Musk. Scott highlights Bannon's attempts to undermine Musk, including accusations of racism against South African businessmen like David Sacks and Peter Thiel.

Key Points:

• Bannon’s Tactics: Attacking Musk’s credibility and affiliations within MAGA circles to retain his relevance.
• Musk’s Position: Despite criticisms, Musk's substantial resources and influence within tech may give him the upper hand.

Notable Quote:

Scott Galloway: "I think Elon’s going to beat him, though. I think that he has such adulation, idolatry, and he has more money than Bannon."

Insights:

• The battle between Bannon and Musk symbolizes deeper fractures within the MAGA movement.
• Musk's control over platforms like Twitter could be pivotal in shaping public opinion against Bannon.

3. Los Angeles Wildfires: Management and Misinformation

Timestamp: [20:00] – [35:34]

Scott and Kara discuss the devastating wildfires in Los Angeles, which have resulted in significant loss of life and property. They explore the challenges in firefighting efforts exacerbated by high winds and rampant misinformation.

Key Topics:

• Infrastructure Issues: Overbuilding and inadequate fire-resistant construction contribute to the severity of wildfires.
• Misinformation Spread: False claims against Governor Gavin Newsom and the proliferation of conspiracy theories hinder effective response.
• Insurance Crisis: Insurance companies are retreating from high-risk zones, leading to financial strain on homeowners and shifting risks from private insurers to taxpayers.

Notable Quotes:

Scott Galloway: "But to be. You know, one of the other things is that the reason it took so long is because California is more stringent on certain plants and things."

Unnamed Female Co-host: "I'm actually quite hopeful. And let me just go back to patting our government officials on the back."

Insights:

• The wildfires highlight systemic issues in California's urban planning and disaster preparedness.
• The discussion underscores the need for robust regulatory frameworks to manage climate-related risks effectively.

4. Mark Zuckerberg’s Take on Masculine Energy

Timestamp: [39:11] – [55:59]

A significant portion of the episode is dedicated to analyzing Mark Zuckerberg's recent remarks on masculine energy during his Joe Rogan podcast appearance. Scott critiques Zuckerberg's conflation of corporate culture with traditional notions of masculinity.

Key Points:

• Zuckerberg’s Claims: He posits that corporate culture has moved away from celebrating "masculine energy," advocating for a return to more aggressive, protective behaviors.
• Hosts’ Critique: Both hosts condemn Zuckerberg’s misunderstanding of masculinity, associating it with outdated and toxic traits.

Notable Quotes:

Mark Zuckerberg: "I think corporate culture was really trying to get away from it. And I do think that there's just something it's like, I don't know..."

Scott Galloway: "It sounds like he just literally has been such a beta his whole life. I have masculine fucking energy and I don't like people taking it."

Insights:

• The hosts argue that true masculinity should encompass protective and nurturing qualities, not aggression.
• Zuckerberg’s comments are portrayed as a reflection of his personal struggles rather than a coherent business strategy.

5. Aerial Firefighters: The Unsung Heroes

Timestamp: [57:47] – [62:17]

Kara highlights the valor and expertise of aerial firefighters battling the Los Angeles wildfires. She praises their specialized training, bravery, and the critical role they play in disaster response.

Key Points:

• Operational Complexity: Aerial firefighters operate under extreme conditions, requiring precise coordination and advanced skills.
• Technology and Training: Use of retrofitted DC10s, C130 Hercules, and specialized helicopters underscores the technological advancements in firefighting.

Notable Quote:

Unnamed Female Co-host: "It's about what is great about our species, our ability to cooperate our technology."

Insights:

• The discussion emphasizes the importance of recognizing and supporting frontline heroes who risk their lives to protect communities.
• Kara’s admiration serves as a counterbalance to the earlier critique of corporate figures lacking genuine protective instincts.

6. Justice Department’s Report on Tulsa Race Massacre

Timestamp: [59:45] – [61:23]

Scott shares his approval of the Justice Department’s recent report confirming the Tulsa Race Massacre of 1921 as a coordinated military-style attack against a prosperous Black community.

Key Points:

• Historical Acknowledgment: The report rectifies long-standing misconceptions, shedding light on the severity and intent behind the massacre.
• Reparations and Recognition: The acknowledgment paves the way for discussions on reparations and historical justice.

Notable Quote:

Scott Galloway: "The Justice Department has released a report correcting the flawed record on the Tulsa race massacre of 1921. I am so thrilled they did it before Trump got in office."

Insights:

• The hosts underscore the importance of historical accuracy in addressing systemic racism and its enduring impacts.
• This revelation is positioned as a step towards healing and accountability in American history.

7. Wins and Fails: Closing Thoughts

Timestamp: [57:47] – [66:32]

In the concluding segment, Kara shares her "win" — the commendable efforts of aerial firefighters — and her "fail" — the detrimental behaviors of billionaires who prioritize wealth over societal well-being.

Key Points:

• Wins: Recognition of frontline workers and their indispensable role in crisis management.
• Fails: Criticism of tech billionaires like Elon Musk and Mark Zuckerberg for their antagonistic behaviors and misplaced priorities.

Notable Quotes:

Scott Galloway: "My fail is these billionaires and they're, you know what? You have the most money of anyone in the history of the planet and you're miserable people."

Unnamed Female Co-host: "I think my fail is these billionaires and they're, you know what? You have the most money of anyone in the history of the planet and you're miserable people."

Insights:

• The hosts advocate for a redefinition of leadership and masculinity that values protection, cooperation, and genuine societal contribution over mere financial success.
• There’s a call for regulatory measures to curb the excesses of unchecked capitalism and ensure that corporate leaders act in the public interest.

---

Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Yaung Galloway on Supreme Court Opinion:

  "Justice Brown Jackson said she saw the law as less about speech than association." [07:34]

• Kara on TikTok's Revenue:

  "TikTok's global revenue is only 20% from the U.S." [10:27]

• Scott on Bannon vs. Musk:

  "I think Elon’s going to beat him, though." [15:40]

• Mark Zuckerberg on Masculine Energy:

  "I think corporate culture was really trying to get away from it." [39:11]

• Kara on Aerial Firefighters:

  "They risk their lives hovering at 240 miles an hour at an altitude of 10ft." [61:04]

• Scott on Tulsa Race Massacre Report:

  "I am so thrilled they did it before Trump got in office." [59:45]

---

Conclusion

In this episode of Pivot, Kara Swisher and Scott Galloway tackle a range of pressing issues from the potential Supreme Court decision on TikTok, internal conflicts within MAGA circles, the catastrophic wildfires in Los Angeles, to Mark Zuckerberg’s controversial views on masculinity. Their candid and incisive analysis highlights the intersection of technology, politics, and societal values, urging listeners to reflect on the true meaning of leadership and responsibility in today’s world.

Transcript

[Kara Swisher]

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[Scott Galloway]

Cold and flu season are upon us, which means it's especially important to keep those hands clean. And when soap is involved, the conversation can slip out of control pretty quickly. I hope you can't hear me rubbing my hands together.

[Unnamed Female Co-host]

No.

[Scott Galloway]

We love asmr. ASMR Episode Gross. This week on Explain It To Me.

[Unnamed Female Co-host]

The Dirty Truth About Clean Hands.

[Scott Galloway]

You can find new episodes every Wednesday, wherever you get your podcasts. Well, we clean up nice from an orgy, I'll tell you that. Hi, everyone. This is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast network. I'm Kara Swisher, and I just got back from a lovely weekend at Scott's apartment where I threw a party. Thank you.

[Unnamed Female Co-host]

Oh, that's why Riverdale is playing on loop. I love those stereotypes.

[Scott Galloway]

Oh, stop it.

[Unnamed Female Co-host]

I love those stereotypes.

[Scott Galloway]

I had Jihan there. I had a whole bunch of friends there. It was really fun. It was lovely.

[Unnamed Female Co-host]

I heard you set up some people and like all good lesbians on their first date, they came over straight people hugged and cried for three hours and then decided to never see each other again.

[Scott Galloway]

No lesbians. Just me and my wife were the only lesbians in attendance. And Jihan was the gay man. I had a full.

[Unnamed Female Co-host]

Jihan was here. He's been here before.

[Scott Galloway]

Canopy of sexual interests. Interesting, interesting. Anyway, thank you so much. The kids loved it. They love on your climbing. They loved the whole thing. We had a nice time, went to see Gypsy, which was great in New York.

[Unnamed Female Co-host]

Gypsy? What is that?

[Scott Galloway]

It's a musical with Audra McDonald. It's an enormous hit on Broadway.

[Unnamed Female Co-host]

God, Broadway.

[Scott Galloway]

I love Broadway. You gotta go to Broadway sometime. Audra McDonald is a very. She's like the. She's the Patti LuPone of this time. She's just amazing. And she was great. And Gypsy's about a narcissistic, toxic mother and a daughter she turns into a stripper. Yeah, it's about strippers. Ooh, yeah. Oh, there you go. There you go. Fan dancing, things like that. It was great. It was great. How was your weekend? You escaped to the warm, correct?

[Unnamed Female Co-host]

Yeah, I had a speaking gig in Boca, so I went and I went down to south beach and stayed at the Faina, and I went out with my friend Pablo Doritos to this hot new restaurant called Sparrow Italia. I had a Kara Swisher moment. People came up and were really nice to me, and I was a little fucked up, so I really enjoyed it.

[Scott Galloway]

Oh, good.

[Unnamed Female Co-host]

I actually like people when I'm drinking.

[Scott Galloway]

Did they call you Kara Swisher? Is that what happened?

[Unnamed Female Co-host]

No. People generally say the following. They're like. They say to me, oh, like, we like Cara more, but we like you. And people always say the same thing. Always say the same thing to me.

[Scott Galloway]

You seem shorter on podcasts. No.

[Unnamed Female Co-host]

What? I really do register it as a compliment. People always say. I'm not exaggerating probably a third to 50% of the time. I don't always agree with what you say, but you make me think. And I'm like, thank you. That's the point.

[Scott Galloway]

That's good.

[Unnamed Female Co-host]

Yeah.

[Scott Galloway]

Oh, that's nice. I get you are my inspiration, or you are my wife's inspiration, or you're my husband's inspiration. That's what I get.

[Unnamed Female Co-host]

Oh, that's nice. So more importantly, what does a lesbian bring to a second date?

[Scott Galloway]

U haul Right. The first. Oh, that's good.

[Unnamed Female Co-host]

You got that. Very good.

[Scott Galloway]

Everyone. That's like the oldest lesbian joke.

[Unnamed Female Co-host]

Let's go with your bad gay jokes.

[Scott Galloway]

Okay. All right.

[Unnamed Female Co-host]

What does a gay man bring to a second date?

[Scott Galloway]

I don't know.

[Unnamed Female Co-host]

Wait, there's a second date?

[Scott Galloway]

Oh, that's good. Okay, I wasn't getting that one.

[Unnamed Female Co-host]

All right, so back to me at my weekend. I went to Houston for a hot minute to speak, and, you know, I went busted into my. I busted into my rap. Unfortunately, the timing wasn't very good there at the end. They asked me about young men, and I got all emotional, and I said that men need to get involved in young men's life and that Michael Jackson and the Catholic Church have fucked it up for all of us and created suspicion around men getting involved. And this is a Texas audience, so the whole audience went. And then, unfortunately, a programming note. Up next was the young boys Choir, and it was just like, oh, God, that didn't go well.

[Scott Galloway]

Oh, no. Scott dredging up pedophilia.

[Unnamed Female Co-host]

I mean, it was just the wrong moment to talk about pedophilia.

[Scott Galloway]

Oh, God, no touching. No touching allowed. Oh, my God. Yeah. You're getting emotional about this time. We're gonna talk a lot about that today. By the way. I am, in fact, going to Miami this weekend to get away from the inauguration, which is coming here this weekend.

[Unnamed Female Co-host]

I can also tell you here there's a lesbian's favorite chocolate in the freezer.

[Scott Galloway]

What?

[Unnamed Female Co-host]

Klondikes. That's good. That's good. It's so bad. It's good. And I think you know what I mean.

[Scott Galloway]

I don't think it's good.

[Unnamed Female Co-host]

I think you know what I mean.

[Scott Galloway]

By the way, I threw out some of your grotesque food that you just left.

[Unnamed Female Co-host]

Oh, feel free. Throw it in there. I did.

[Scott Galloway]

I was like, oh, he's such a man.

[Unnamed Female Co-host]

Take charge of my life. I don't mind.

[Scott Galloway]

I just to say, I clean up your refrigerator. I do that to everybody's refrigerator because. But it looked like it was going.

[Unnamed Female Co-host]

To turn when people make doctor's appointments for me or plan my take over my life.

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah. And Amanda was like, should you be cleaning this refrigerator? I said, I have to. It's a must.

[Unnamed Female Co-host]

I appreciate it.

[Scott Galloway]

We didn't take any of your clothes. Although Amanda commented, if you're starting to shed things, just leave a pile for us. We admired some of your clothing that was strewn about.

[Unnamed Female Co-host]

It's so funny. My son will not let me spend money on clothes for him, but I love purging clothes. And I, no joke, was pushing about two thirds of my clothes out, and I left him. And all of a sudden, my son started showing up in Brunello Cuccinelli, like, odd colors that I don't like. And he looks so good. And it's such a nice moment. My son is now wearing my clothes. And granted, they look baggy on them, but it's such a nice moment. I'm really enjoying it.

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah, well, Alex Swisher likes to wear nice things. If you have anyone to give him.

[Unnamed Female Co-host]

Anyway, Alex is too big.

[Scott Galloway]

Oh, he's actually. Well, no, I guess you're right. He's too tall. He's not that different from your build, is he? He's kind of has your build, just more muscles, obviously.

[Unnamed Female Co-host]

I'm Elle.

[Scott Galloway]

You're Elle. Okay. All right. I'll say. All right, we're talking. Cause we've got to get to that today. Including Mark Zuckerberg mansplaining masculine energy. How misinformation about the LA Fires is creating more problems on. Not just on X. It's now brought to you by Facebook. So we have a lot to Talk about masculine. This is a masculine show. We're going to do a masculine show we have. And no young boys choirs. But first as we tape on Monday, the Supreme Court seems to be leaning towards upholding the TikTok ban. They heard oral arguments on Friday with justices seeming more skeptical of TikTok's arguments that the First Amendment banned Congress from enacting the law. Some takeaways. The justices pointed out that ByteDance, a Chinese company, does not have First Amendment rights. Justice Brown Jackson said she saw the law as less about speech than association. I thought this was really smart. She's so smart. Like barring Americans from associating with foreign terrorist groups for national security reasons. Justices Kagan and Gorsuch together suggest that everyone knows China is behind TikTok and expressed interest in less heavy handed approach. Like a warning label. Which was interesting but it seemed like it was all over the place. This was not a part of in any way. Which is exactly what the issue is in Congress too surprising. People are for it and against it. I think they're supposed to rule on Wednesday. I understand. So any prediction?

[Unnamed Female Co-host]

They're definitely not getting a hall pass here. Something's gonna happen. It's just a question of what. Whether they fully uphold the divestiture. In my opinion, a warning label is almost ridiculous. It's like those things that ask you if you accept cookies or whatever. I just don't. I don't think that's going to happen. I wonder if there's some kind of back dealings around some sort of investment or governance or American investors invest just enough such that there's enough governance that would satisfy the White House. There's been some conjecture that Trump wouldn't necessarily need to enforce it.

[Scott Galloway]

Well, here's the thing. I've heard of this thing. I don't remember the answer in that case. But he could not enforce it. But that doesn't mean Apple and Google won't do it anyway. Because I think over Trump they would take the Supreme Court's side. I don't think they need to be instructed by. If Trump says don't do it, he can't say that. Right. He has more limited things than you think. This is a law passed by Congress and I think the Supreme Court tends to respect those, especially around national security issues. And so I'm going with they're gonna say do it and they're not gonna delay it. They're not gonna let Trump get his dirty mitts around it even though he will have his dirty mitts around it because it's the question of where it sells to. And that could be. And his administration, through all kinds of different organizations that look at these things and they've been. And he's been through this before. The previous time he was doing the executive order and was trying to do that. Microsoft, Walmart. Do you remember that deal? Microsoft, Walmart, Ellison, there was a whole really odd group of people, but I think he's going to try to advantage Musk and Ellison. But then you see Mark Zuckerberg coming in because he doesn't particularly want Musk to have an advantage. This is good for Facebook if TikTok suffers. Like there's all kinds of stuff. And he was just down in Palm Beach. Marquin again, we'll talk about him in a second. But. So I think it'll be interesting. And then there's a couple of the bidders I've talked to and one of them who I consider one of the smarter ones or among the different names, there's about six different names. They were like, you're not this. There's no sale here. There's nothing going to happen. The Chinese won't let it happen. Then there's the whole Chinese reaction to it when it's. When it's finally passed and what the Chinese will do. Because most people feel without the algorithm, it's. It's just a brand.

[Unnamed Female Co-host]

That's the secret sauce. Yeah. The. The data that I ran across that kind of gave me a different view on this or, I don't know, enhanced my view. Is that so TikTok has 170 million American users. That's staggering. Right. And the people not using it don't matter in the sense it's probably seniors or people without phones that just don't buy shit. Advertisers don't care about those people. But the thing that was also equally surprising is what percentage of TikTok's global revenue would you guess is generated in the.

[Scott Galloway]

In the U.S. probably small amount.

[Unnamed Female Co-host]

It's very good. You have very good instincts. It's 1/5. I would have guessed it was like 30 to 50%. It's 20%. So while that is. That is significant, I'm not sure. I think their attitude is, yeah, we love this market. It may be our biggest market, but we're fine without it. Because TikTok is growing 23% a year. Meaning if they lose it, and they won't lose it, all of it. Because young people will find workarounds. I mean, try and take TikTok off your kid's phone and then Find out how many ways there is to get TikTok without knowing it over the top, you know, if not vpn, all kinds of shit. Right.

[Scott Galloway]

I do think Apple and Google will go with whatever the Supreme Court says. And so that will hinder a lot of people like the regular, like not everybody. And of course there's the creators who are up in arms cause they make some good living off of TikTok. And if you recall, TikTok did those ads.

[Unnamed Female Co-host]

There is no doubt that I would not have found the success that I have today without TikTok. TikTok has made me a better teacher. It's helped me to connect with people.

[Unnamed Male Co-host]

Far beyond my classroom.

[Unnamed Female Co-host]

Think about the 5 million small business owners that rely on TikTok to provide for their families.

[Scott Galloway]

Did you see those ads?

[Unnamed Female Co-host]

Yeah. And I wonder if there's going to be. I think it's. I think there's me a lot of unintended consequences here if it gets banned. For example, just as there's ghost guns to try and evade any sort of regular regulatory enforcement. I wouldn't be surprised if we see the emergence of some sort of like ghost, dumb, dumb phones that just are single purpose to access TikTok that I have seen some kids that are. I mean if you, if you won't give them opiates via oxycontin through your doctor, they hit the street and they find it. And I don't, I really do think, I don't think I'm in extremist here. I think TikTok has some opiate like heroin like attributes.

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah, you go right to heroin with them. You're like pot, weed, heroin.

[Unnamed Female Co-host]

I told you, I'm already planning out my death. I'm going to play those apple memories. I'm going to have Tom Petty. I'm doing it in my home in Delray on the beach. I'm going to have a very curated group of people come visit me. Breath work and then. And I'm going to just ramp up the opium and I'm going to live my life again, except under the influence of heroin. It's going to be wonderful.

[Scott Galloway]

Oh wow.

[Unnamed Female Co-host]

I'm really excited about that.

[Scott Galloway]

I'm super excited for that.

[Unnamed Female Co-host]

I want my exit to be glorious and I don't want to come back.

[Scott Galloway]

Can I just tell you, I'm going to do an interpretive dance of our relationship for you. Putting you on heroin.

[Unnamed Female Co-host]

That's traumatizing.

[Scott Galloway]

It'll be so beautiful.

[Unnamed Female Co-host]

That's so beautiful. It'll be so beautiful.

[Scott Galloway]

I will dance for you. I Shall on heroin. It will become a lot better. I'm a terrible dancer. Anyway, we'll see what happens. I feel like they're going to go with the ban, and I don't think they're going to delay it. And I think then Trump will try to manipulate it. That's really. And then we'll see.

[Unnamed Female Co-host]

It was a really good conversation, though. It was really. These are, regardless of what you think about their politics, with the exception of Thomas and maybe a little Lito, because he's so fucking weird. These are very intelligent people. It made me actually feel pretty good to be American to listen to the discourse.

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah, it was good. It was good. And they were all different and smart on a lot of things. And there was some little joking about TikTok, little joking from the Supreme Court, a little digital joke, and I thought it was good. It looked like, just as with not letting Trump off the hook in New York, I think Roberts has taken a little more control over things. Seems like it. And it looks like Amy Coney Barrett's the swinger, kind of, so to speak, you know. Oh, yeah. She went against Trump on this vote, and everyone's after her. And speaking of after her, one of the people after her, Steve Bannon, really said she was a traitor, essentially, in the Trump decision around the New York case. He didn't get any time, guys.

[Unnamed Female Co-host]

You mean ex con Steve Bannon?

[Scott Galloway]

Yes, yes. Ex con now. And now felon Donald Trump. Fotus is the word. But it's great.

[Unnamed Female Co-host]

If they're both on Air Force One, we get to call it Con Air One.

[Scott Galloway]

Yes, that's right. Exactly.

[Unnamed Female Co-host]

Con Air.

[Scott Galloway]

But, see, Bannon is, interestingly, fighting. Has upped his fight with Elon Musk, and he said he'll have Elon Musk, quote, run out by Inauguration Day. I don't know what that means. That's like next week, Steve, so get on it. The contempt stems from the division in MAGA circles. It's quite profound. Last month, over H1B visas, which Musk has been for, Bannon said he will do anything to keep Musk out and said he should go back to South Africa. He named David Sacks and Peter Thiel, all from South Africa, as problematic and racist. He was accusing them of being racist. It was sort of weird. It was such a weird thing. Populism versus racism.

[Unnamed Female Co-host]

Sachs are from South Africa.

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah. I feel like there's a conspiracy theory. I'm with Bannon on this one. No, I'm not. I'm never with Bannon.

[Unnamed Female Co-host]

What? They were born there. Those Guys have been here for a while.

[Scott Galloway]

I know, I know. They're American. They're Americans.

[Unnamed Female Co-host]

I was just in South Africa and it did not strike me as the most racist place on earth.

[Scott Galloway]

I understand. It used to be, for sure. So in any case, he is attacking them. So there's a Team Steve or team Elon. How about none of the above? But it's a really interesting fight and he doesn't want him to have privileges to get onto the campus, the White House campus, to get this blue pass. It's called Thoughts. I mean, who's going to win this fight? Probably Elon.

[Unnamed Female Co-host]

Well, this is like when Iran and Iraq were at war. I was praying for the bullets. This is, this is.

[Scott Galloway]

Oh my God. That's funny.

[Unnamed Female Co-host]

Yeah. Wrong, but funny. Yeah, I think it's fantastic. I want to funnel ammunition to whatever side is losing in the short run and just keep that conflict going as long as possible. So I don't, you know, I don't. Look, I think Steve Bannon is in many ways, I mean, here's the problem. I don't think Elon Musk is as fucked up in the head as Steve Bannon, but Elon Musk is more powerful. So I think this is Steve Bannon trying to be relevant. And he sees, he recognizes my understanding of people who know Steve Bannon, say the guy is brilliant, that he's one of the most. I would agree, say that he's one of the most well read people that they have ever met. And I think he recognizes it doesn't matter why you're in the news, as long as you're in the news. And he's picked the highest profile person in the world and is going, going after him. And I'm just here for it. It's as if like, it's like the Tyson Jake Paul fight if Tyson had been 20 years younger. I just, I think it's going to be a great battle and really interesting. And at the end of the day, I just think Elon Musk wins here. I think that he has such adulation, idolatry, and he has more money than Bannon. And I think that generally speaking, in a capitalist society that's gone full oligarch, full kleptocracy. The good money in a political campaign on an issue is just who has the most money. And Musk has more money and he'll start weaponizing Twitter and his 220 million followers against Bannon. What are your thoughts?

[Scott Galloway]

He hasn't gone after Bannon that much. He goes after any one person on any day, at any time. Like, ridiculously, with hammer and tongs, he hasn't really attacked Steve Bannon. There's more. It's more than Bannon. There's a Charlie Kirk. All the MAGA crowd is sort of anti elon, which is interesting. And I would wonder what J.D. vance thinks right about now. He said something counter to Trump the other on Sunday.

[Unnamed Female Co-host]

Well, J.D. vance, I mean, come on, he's like.

[Scott Galloway]

The wife that got shoved aside, right?

[Unnamed Female Co-host]

Yeah, I remember my best friend. Not my best friend, but one of my close friend of mine. I was young, he was married, and for important events, he used to show up with his mistress.

[Scott Galloway]

What?

[Unnamed Female Co-host]

Yeah. He used to bring his mistress to important events with his wife.

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah.

[Unnamed Female Co-host]

And that's what this. That's how J.D. vance must feel right now. I mean, J.D. vance is, for all intents and purposes, not the vice president. Elon Musk is.

[Scott Galloway]

Right.

[Unnamed Female Co-host]

And he must think, fuck, I had to go debate walls and I had to put up with all these people, you know, and this guy's now vice president.

[Scott Galloway]

Talking about the couch fucking and the. And the cat lady and everything.

[Unnamed Female Co-host]

Yeah. So I would imagine that.

[Scott Galloway]

Don't forget couch fucking, everybody. Go ahead.

[Unnamed Female Co-host]

I would imagine that J.D. vance, when he sees Bannon, is high fiving him.

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah. Yeah. It's interesting. You know, he's calling Musk truly evil, which is incredible.

[Unnamed Female Co-host]

Didn't Elon Musk call you truly evil?

[Scott Galloway]

No. Yoel Roth was evil. I had a heart seething with hate. Okay, let's try to keep that heart seething with hate.

[Unnamed Female Co-host]

Yeah, that's that smell around my apartment. It's heart. It's smoldering. It's smoldering cardiac organisms.

[Scott Galloway]

You enjoy seething bagels at your house? No, he goes, he is a truly evil guy, a very bad guy. And made it my personal thing to take this guy down, which is fascinating. I'm like, what's happening here? It's like, and this is the quote, he should go back to South Africa. Why do we have South Africans? The most racist people on earth. White South Africans. South Africans. We have them making any comments at all, which goes on in the United States. He said Musk had the maturity of a little boy, which I'm kind of for him on that one, I would agree. But it's just interesting. It's not just Laura Lumiere and him. It's a whole panoply of MAGA people who don't think he's loyal to maga, that he's opportunist. Oh, MAGA we're so sorry. We told you. We warned you. We warned you. Anyway, there you have it. We do think Elon's going to beat him, though. So there we have it. But Bannon, never count that guy out. He's such a, like I call him, you know, the unmade bed, but he's really a toxic unmade bed. And so he has his, he has his skills, but. Exactly. Let's root for neither of them. Okay, let's get to our first big story. Firefighters continue to battle Los Angeles wildfires which have killed at least 24 people and destroyed entire neighborhoods. High winds are expected to pick up again through the middle of the week, which won't help containment efforts, so that they're getting a handle on quite a bit of it. Also not helping the onslaught of misinformation about the fires, including false claims that Governor Gavin Newsom's policies, Alex Jones conspiracy theories and a circulation of so much AI crap. It still is a government disaster in terms of fire management. It always is. But this is a decades long problem in California around overbuilding, around climate issues about not building with the right stuff there. It's, you know, they're very stringent on earthquake building. I had did that myself, not so much with wildfires. I didn't have to do anything when I was doing a renovation around wildfires, but I certainly had to do a lot around earthquakes. I just, you know, X was successful Meta just got rid of fact checkers. These everyone's having to like even the head of HHS said you cannot beat social media outrage and falsehoods anymore. And so it's one of the things they're worried about. And of course at the very top is Donald Trump. There's been threats about withholding aid from California unless they get in line, which honestly California gives more than it takes from this country. It's repulsive. You don't do that to any part of this country when there's a crisis. Thoughts, top line thoughts, Scott Galloway, There.

[Unnamed Female Co-host]

Used to be, it seems like the time to blame has gotten shorter and shorter. And I thought the most repugnant one was and there's been more repugnant statements. But Greg Gutfield on the 5 and Jess Tarlov got back in his face, called the head of the fire department a DEI hire and then Musk weighed in and said DEI equals die. The only thing that this fire captain would say about DEI or indicate is this woman is so infinitely qualified that the question is why did it take so long for someone like that to ascend to a position of power and to immediately kind of politicize this and to force the governor to have to put up a website and take time away from actually saving property and lives to create a site to dispel and push back on misinformation in the midst of this crisis.

[Scott Galloway]

And then he got attacked for that. He went on Pod Saves America and a couple things to talk about that, to dispel things. And then like, how dare he be on podcasts? I was like, he's dispelling misinformation. You started like it was nuts.

[Unnamed Female Co-host]

And the mayor, deservedly or not, she's out. It just was really unfortunate timing for her to be in Ghana. It just. And she didn't handle herself well. She's out. But the governor and the people there, I think 13,000 firefighters, something unbelievable. And I always feel like we're outgunned because on the left, there's been some people saying, well, it's clearly climate change. But they've been a little bit more measured because they're like, we don't know. And the thing about LA is like, okay, so we don't know. We're more measured. And the Reich just goes fucking crazy and dominates the media cycle with saying, DEI is die right?

[Scott Galloway]

Or all kinds of manners of conspiracy theories. There's like 90 of them.

[Unnamed Female Co-host]

It's really crazy.

[Scott Galloway]

And some people are really normal people who are right now emotionally bereft are buying some of it, right? They're getting to people at their worst. And when they're houses, they're vulnerable. And then filling them full of bile and anger does nothing to help the situation. It's really. I've had some friends who said this and this. I was like, no, that's not true. I mean, one thing that seems true is these power lines were not shut off quickly enough during what? It was terrible. And they don't have the newest power lines that don't bend and break. These are something we can now go and say, we need to fix this, we need to fix this. But to be. You know, one of the other things is that the reason it took so long is because California is more stringent on certain plants and things, and so it takes longer. Maybe we need to fix that. Right? But you can't blame it for nature, which these winds are a stop from. Friends of mine say it's just they were the strongest winds they've ever seen. However they got there. Climate change, historically, they've been. Those winds, if you've ever been in them, are insane. There's been a lot More wind in San Francisco lately, like, by the way, disturbing amounts of winds. A tree fell on my house. Never in 25 years has that happened. And it wasn't even a Santa Ana wind, which are really kind of whipsawing. So I just don't know what you would do if you were a public official.

[Unnamed Female Co-host]

Like California actually has a really robust, well invested, well resourced fire response apparatus, probably the strongest in the nation. They're not stupid. But I mean this, unfortunately this problem is very nuanced. Los Angeles, I mean, to a certain extent Los Angeles is an accident and a crazy idea that shouldn't have happened. There's earthquakes there, there's massive droughts there. In Portugal, there's this canyon that is off the coast and it's famous because of all the incredible surfers who ride the biggest wave in history. It's called Nazare, where the ocean turns into this canyon and then pops up into kind of a weird cliffs on both sides chutes. So when this tide comes in, it creates these unprecedented water masses that result in hundred foot waves. In LA you have quite frankly, this inhospitable environment with a ton of people living in a desert beneath this very strange anomaly where there's a lot of high pressure and low pressure systems. And when they align just correctly, the high pressure winds go chasing the low pressure, creating a windstorm that gets shot through a narrow craters of passages in form of the mountains and basically creates the mother of all hot air dryers. On high, on high with drought shooting a 60 or an 80 mile an hour hot wind over the city. So literally a match can fly hundreds of yards. I did some research here and I thought, okay, is this the straw that breaks the camel's back? And people, my friend who lost his home in the Palisades has said he got the check the next day and he's done. He's like, he's not gonna rebuild. However, the data shows that most people stay because here's the thing about la, it's fucking magical. You get up in February and it's 62 degrees and dry with a light breeze and you think, oh, it's a Saturday, maybe we'll go to Zuma Beach. Oh, I know I'm gonna go see the LA Philharmonic play Pink Floyd songs at the Hollywood Bowl. I know I'm gonna go see a movie premiere in Century City. I know I'm gonna have an Uber driver that's ridiculously fucking hot because he just got a callback for season four of Fallout. I mean, the collision of Mexican culture The entertainment industry, the weather.

[Scott Galloway]

Can I ask a question? One of the things that is so much wonder and by some of it's been like this real inn that I used to go take the kids to all the time is gone. All these burned down. All these amazing places have burned down. And let me just tell you, for those who'd never been to Pacific Paltis and parts of Pasadena, they're Altadena. They're such beautiful places. Some of these houses, it makes the Will Rogers estate. So as I said, it's so beautiful. What, what would you take? Scott, I was asking this to Amanda and everyone at the brunch this weekend. What would you take if you had two hours or an hour?

[Unnamed Female Co-host]

It's funny you said that. I've always said the same thing. Photos and my computer. That's it. I don't know what else. I'm actually pretty healthy that way. I'm not very attracted or attached to things. I'd want photos, I'd want my computer just for practical reasons, but I don't. There's nothing in my life as evidenced by the fact I'm not exaggerating twice a year.

[Scott Galloway]

Your dogs, obviously.

[Unnamed Female Co-host]

Yeah, obviously get the hounds out. But what I've been doing is I've been calling. I want to move to a couple things around solutions. I mean, one of the things that we're going to have the opportunity to rethink is quite frankly, a lot of these homes are tinderboxes on the East Coast. We build with cement or we build with different materials. They build with wood and other things that quite frankly are just probably don't make sense. The insurance industry and the relationship between insurance and home value.

[Scott Galloway]

Can I put these facts in for you before you get to that? The insurance. Because another Crisis involves insurance. JP Morgan estimates the total LA county losses could be close to $50 billion, while losses insurers will have to pay could top 20 billion. California has seen major insurers pull back on coverage in recent years due to what one company called rapidly growing catastrophe exposure that's happening in many states, including florid. Most many of these people, their houses are their savings, their equity. So talk a little bit about insurance here.

[Unnamed Female Co-host]

Well, okay, so you've heard my rant on insurance. I think insurance is a transfer of wealth from the poor to the rich. So if you're wealthy and you can absorb a hit. I have a bunch of rental properties in Florida. I don't insure them because I could afford to lose them. Now what's happened in California is The insurance companies, which are private companies and their job is to return profits to their shareholders, did the math. They're very smart. Basically, an insurance company does nothing but try and predict the future. And now with AI, I think they can predict it and calibrate it to a much, you know, a much greater confidence interval. And about two, three years ago they said, this makes no fucking sense. This place is a tinderbox. And California, and you could argue this is overregulation, has put in place in certain areas with certain types of insurance price caps, saying you can't escalate faster than this. So the insurance company said, okay, girlfriend, we're out. And you had a massive number, like hundreds of thousands of homes that got a letter saying, we've canceled your insurance. This no longer makes any sense for us on a risk adjusted basis, given you live in a high propensity fire zone. So we're out. So California had to institute a program where they would back certain insurance policies. Now, effectively, what that is, it's a transfer of wealth from California taxpayers to homeowners. Because as someone who lives near the beach in Florida and is subject to climate change, whatever you want to call it, the reality is I should either pay for those risks or I should move or my home prices should go down. And so there isn't, you know, when things change, I'm not sure you have a birthright to live in a certain city. This is going to inspire a very interesting conversation around property values, the rights to live somewhere, and insurance and climate change and risk. I'm actually quite hopeful. And let me just go back to patting our government officials on the back. A surface area greater than Boston or San Francisco was torched. That's how big this fire was. And to date, it has claimed 11.

[Scott Galloway]

Lives, 24 and more. There's more could come, but because they.

[Unnamed Female Co-host]

Haven'T found everybody, I would imagine in LA County, I don't know how many traffic deaths there are every weekend, but my point is obviously incredible.

[Scott Galloway]

So many people didn't die, that's one thing.

[Unnamed Female Co-host]

I mean, that's a tragedy for those families. That is remarkable. The government's job is to save people and property in a crisis like that, in this order. So the primary objective when you have a natural disaster like this is to save people's lives. And they get an A fucking plus here. Not that many people lost their lives.

[Scott Galloway]

I have to say, the pylon is so disturbing in every way. It's like, can you please stop, you people? There's not a moment they don't everything is dei. When there was a plane crash, oh, it was dei. There's not a disaster. And let me just say to people like Elon Musk, you don't have any fucking solutions. You just have a lot of frigging complaints, right? And it's not like you immediately go to your same grab bag of hate. That really doesn't matter here. And you're taking advantage of people who have a propensity to be very upset and look for blame when what they need is help from people like Jose Andres and the governor and everybody else. So shut the fuck up. Some of them anyway. That goes to me about sort of.

[Unnamed Female Co-host]

Manliness, but it moves to solutions. And this is an opportunity for virtue signaling. My favorite thing. Stephen Leiter said something. Rabbi Stephen Leiter said something that really hit hard to me. He said, calling people and asking if you can help is not helpful because people who are in this state don't want to be victims. They don't want to think about how you can help me. You don't call and ask how to help. You just help. And one of the things I've really struggled with and it really, it struck me this time is I was really curious if UCLA was being affected. And I typed in UCLA evacuation question mark. And the first thing that came up in the fucking Google algorithm was this TikTok from some sophomore there calling UCLA the University of California that doesn't care. And I'm like, that's my news on UCLA. Some 19 year old in his dorm room doing an angry TikTok. So I've been using news, not noise. Jessica Yellen, who I find is pretty measured. I've been looking at. I've been following Anderson Cooper, who I think does his best.

[Scott Galloway]

He's done a great job here, I have to say.

[Unnamed Female Co-host]

But I gotta be honest, I'm having trouble. I'm just skeptical and distrusting of everything I see. So I'm moving to action. I like Jessica Yellen. She needs more resources. I like news. Not always. It's 100 bucks. I went and bought 50 subscriptions. I am the most. I am the biggest GoFundMe slut in.

[Scott Galloway]

The world right now. I like that. That's nice.

[Unnamed Female Co-host]

And I realize, I realize I'm virtue signaling, but I also believe that many administrators and nonprofits are nothing but attempts to get bored. People, jobs and tax money getting to people, right?

[Scott Galloway]

Or just show up like Jose Andres with the food and everything else. Just help. Just start just for news, not noise. Their, their tagline is we give you Information, not a panic attack, which I thought was kind of good. I do, I will say, let me just say, aside from crazy Patrick Soon Chong, who's the thirstiest publisher in American history, who's weird and being saying nasty shit, his reporters, the reporters he employs, they're not his reporters. They fucking hate him. Are doing an astonishing job in Los Angeles. The local stations are doing an astonishing. I've done a lot of watching on the Internet, great job, a lot of information. This one tracker that they use, the Watch app, has been like a godsend to people. There's a lot of helpful stuff online. And I have to say the Washington Post has done a great job. The New York Times, the Wall Street Journal has done a spectacular job. And so the coverage has been helpful, informational. You know, they have to cover the misinformation angle of it. But I have to say good job, firefighters number one. And you of course showed pictures of the flyers who are flying over Los Angeles dropping water, which are astonishing, beautiful and also so spectacular. And it is about manliness. I'm sure there are some women flying those planes, by the way. But let's go on a quick break because we're going to talk about that, what it is to be a man. And the people who are bitching and moaning are not men. Let's just say when we get back. Mark Zuckerberg explains why masculine energy is the future. Well, his kind not. But we'll see what Scott has to say about this when we get back.

[Kara Swisher]

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[Unnamed Female Co-host]

Support for today's show comes from HubSpot. It takes a lot to grow your business. You've got to attract audiences, score leads, manage all the channels. It's a lot of long days and late nights, but with Breeze HubSpot's new AI tools, it's never been easier to be a marketer and crush your goals fast. Which means pretty soon your company will have a lot to celebrate, like 110% more leads in just 12 months. Visit HubSpot.com lead marketers to learn more.

[Scott Galloway]

Support for Pivot comes from Vanta Proving trust is more important than ever, especially when it comes to your security program. Vanta helps centralize program requirements and automates evidence collection for frameworks like SoC2, ISO 27001, HIPAA, and more. So you can save time and money and build customer trust. And with Vanta, you get continuous visibility into the state of your controls. You can join more than 8,000 global companies like Atlassian Flow Health and Quora who trust Vanta to manage risk and provide security in real time. Now that's the new way to GRC. Get thousand dollars off Vanta when you go to vanta.com pivot that's vanta.com pivot for a thousand dollars off Scott we're back. Mark Zuckerberg's MAGA makeover continues with a return visit to Mar a Lago last week and an appearance on Joe Rogan's podcast, possibly the most embarrassing one I've ever seen. Over the course of a three hour chat with Rogan, Zuckerberg bashed his own company's fact checking process, the Biden administration's push for content moderation, and Apple for lack of innovation. Amidst the news that Meta ended its DEI efforts, Zuckerberg lamented the rise of culturally neutered companies. Let's listen to him explain why masculine energy is so important.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

You know, I grew up, I have three sisters, no brothers, I have three daughters, no sons. So I'm like surrounded by girls and women like my whole life. And it's like, I think, I don't know, there's something, the kind of masculine energy I think is, is good. And obviously society has plenty of that. But I think corporate culture was really trying to get away from it. And I do think that there's just something it's like, I don't know. All these forms of energy are good. And I think having a culture that celebrates the aggression a bit more has its own merits that are really positive.

[Scott Galloway]

It sounds like this guy has divorce vibes to me. I don't know. That's what all over the look, how he juxtaposed them. I have three sisters, no brothers, three daughters, no sons. And then he doesn't say, this is great. He says, and, you know, we kind of need masculine energy again. It sounds like he feels like a fucking Ken doll or something's happened here and then makes no sense. I had forgotten what a bad thinker he was until I listened to this interview. I've interviewed him many times. As I'm interviewing him, most of the time I'm thinking, this guy has no intellectual heft in any way or an ability to think through a clear thought now, and he certainly doesn't anymore. So this was one big, I don't know, you know, pusball of, you need some therapy, dude. That's all I kept thinking when I was listening to it. But, Scott, have you been talking to Mark about masculine energy? And what would you say?

[Unnamed Female Co-host]

First off, anyone who's seen Mark Zuckerberg's new wardrobe realized he's not bringing masculine energy. He's bringing Chechen Molly dealer energy.

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah, that's Jimmy Kimmel.

[Unnamed Female Co-host]

Yeah. And that's the best description of his look and feel for the most part. Look, I think masculinity and femininity are wonderful things. They're societal constructs that can help be great guideposts and aspirational behaviors for both men and women not sequestered to either sex. But I'm not sure that it plays a role. I don't think companies should be gendered. I don't think it's a productive conversation.

[Scott Galloway]

I just got their neutered. Oh, my God. Fuck you, Mark. Go ahead.

[Unnamed Female Co-host]

Sorry. Here's On a very basic level, masculinity means you're a protector, a provider, and a procreator, in my view. And let's just go to protection. You add surplus value. You register complaints. You give notice to people's lives. You attempt to help people more than the help you're getting without credit, you're willing to take risks, you're willing to be aggressive. Your operating system, your default system, is that you protect people. And right now, Elon Mark Zuckerberg, the most favorable thing you could say about him is he's bringing kind of pragmatic billionaire energy to his company. He's being Very pragmatic around kissing the ass of Donald Trump, figuring out a way to spin moderationist censorship so he can get rid of it. Take $5 billion that he was spending on moderation, put it all to the bottom line, which will increase his net worth by 15 to 20 billion dollars. It has nothing to do with masculinity or femininity. Masculine energy. If you want to see masculine energy, look at the aerial firefighters who are former military, former civilian pilots or civilian pilots. They get in retrofitted DC10s, they risk their lives, they bring incredible skill. Risk aggressiveness in the service of others.

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah, he misses that part.

[Unnamed Female Co-host]

Without the expectation of economic gain or recognition, we don't know who these guys are.

[Scott Galloway]

Or women. That's just.

[Unnamed Female Co-host]

Well, it's probably a lot of women. I'm gonna go on a limb here. It's probably a lot of women handling a lot of the infrastructure and navigation.

[Scott Galloway]

There's. Look at Lauren Sanchez can fly a mean helicopter. Right?

[Unnamed Female Co-host]

I mean, okay, but let's just talk about reality. I bet it's 98% plus male pilots. Because here's the bottom line. The majority of men, the majority of aerial flight training in the military has been sequestered to mention unfairly or fairly.

[Scott Galloway]

Probably true.

[Unnamed Female Co-host]

And quite frankly, and I'll go out on a limb here, such a. You're such a Twitter can get mad at me. Men are more risk aggressive. And in military situations, that masculine energy, that big dick energy really pays off because men.

[Scott Galloway]

But you're talking about the service of others. I want you to take apart with how he said it, the way he put together the women in his life without any praise and then sort of had this sort of this like shitty little stew of other things around companies with jet word he used neutered. Like everything is about the dick for this guy. And I kept thinking small dick. That's what I kept thinking the whole time. Who would talk like this? Who has girl daughters? Women can be aggressive. Welcome to me. Mark Zuckerberg, just for everyone knows, ran away from me at most encounters we've had. Run physically runs away from me. Like he has no masculine of what he's talking about, but whatever. I mean I do. I am aggressive. But that's another story.

[Unnamed Female Co-host]

The base you can't have true, in my opinion, masculine energy without having a great deal of femininity surrounding yourself. I thought Wallace's best line in the debate was his advice to young men was to surround yourself with smart women and listen to them. Because the things that make up masculinity surplus value. You create more tax revenue than you absorb. You listen to people complain more than you complain. You're in amazing fucking physical shape. Why? So you can protect people. It all stems from wanting to protect people in your life. And also the thing that complements it, the thing that makes it true masculinity, is being surrounded by smart people who create nuance, who create concern, who create care, and who create nurturing. Usually women. The most masculine men in the world had very strong feminine influence. The most masculine men in the world have really wonderful relationships with their mother. It's the first person they decide they would put themselves in harm's way to protect.

[Scott Galloway]

All right, can I put a little note in here? I think feminine energy is protective too. Like, I can't think of a more. A stronger energy than a mother's energy, for example. I would kill people. I'd fucking get I killed.

[Unnamed Female Co-host]

So when you're an Aspen, if you approach a bear, you're just like, make sure it doesn't have cubs around.

[Scott Galloway]

Right, Exactly. So I don't. The fact that he's defining this by masculine and female, I don't even know what he's talking about. It has no role. It's like, are you a good person and a strong protector of people, male or female? Mark, there's no such thing. It sounds like he just literally has been such a beta his whole life. And let me tell you, Mark Zuckerberg is a beta, no matter how you slice it. Who wants to be an alpha? I'm an alpha. Mark, you're a beta. Just so you know, that's how it's going for you. But you have to clothe yourself and you have to do your fighting and you have to shoot, you know, buffalo, and you gotta cook meat. This is all such bullshit cosplaying about what a man is. It's now become you are. What's interesting is someone said, I'm so glad we're back to hating Mark Zuckerberg. I do not hate him. I find him pathetic. That's absolutely true, but it's just. I don't even understand how someone could. It feels like the midlife crisis. Like, I thought Jeff Bezos was having one. This guy is in the middle of something that's personal and has nothing to do with it, but it has implications that are larger and. Let me go into this. We're learning about some of the new guidelines or lack thereof. Thank you, Joel Kaplan. I'm not gonna call you a piece of shit, but that's what I'm thinking with this hateful conduct policy statements that are permitted, including saying gays aren't normal and trans people aren't real, they're mentally ill. Calling trans people it. Meta employees are voicing their concerns about these moderation changes. Employee described it as total chaos internally. Another dozens of people, one of whom I'm gonna have on, said they're incandescently angry about what the need to do this is. I don't think Mark will change. He's gotten permission from his new Igor, Joel Kaplan, to do so. They're not only getting rid of DEI. That is a debate to have. Amazon, McDonald's and others are pulling back. But at the same time, Apple's board, however, is recommending that voters vote no on the proposal to eliminate companies DEI programs. They've said this is important part of our culture. Costco is also pushing back against the anti DEA DEI efforts. I just. I'm gonna play something that I did in an interview with Laverne Cox, activist and actor.

[Unnamed Female Co-host]

I've been advising that. I know I have very close friends who have trans kids. If your child can be stealth, I would say be stealth.

[Scott Galloway]

Oh, wow.

[Unnamed Female Co-host]

I would say that because it's just too unsafe. I don't want. I don't want us to be killed. I don't want us to be murdered. I don't want parents to be taken away from their kids. If you can live stealth, it's safety. Stealth has always been about safety.

[Scott Galloway]

That was highly depressing to me. Cause I used to live in stealth and it's a terrible place to be. But I'd love your thoughts on what's happening here within this company in particular, in that. And then, of course, attacking Apple. No, at Facebook. These. All of them at once. Moving in all these areas that are not welcomed by a lot of people and is the minimum they can do to have some safety on their platform without letting people not be people. But the only thing they targeted was LGBTQ stuff, pretty much.

[Unnamed Female Co-host]

I have less sympathy for the employees because. Get another fucking job.

[Scott Galloway]

All right.

[Unnamed Female Co-host]

Okay. If you're that outraged, if you really feel you're working for a company that is targeting you based on your gender or sexual orientation, and you are probably one of the most skilled, employable people in the world. Stop your fucking virtue signaling and go get another job.

[Scott Galloway]

All right. Okay. What about why they're doing this at Meta right now?

[Unnamed Female Co-host]

Well, we know why they're doing it. This is a guy who would fuck his mother for a nickel. Oh, wow. This is pretty okay. When I needed to be in the good graces of Trumpet in the Biden administration and not have any regulation. I announce a moderating team. Moderation. Billions of investment in moderation. And then when the new Trump administration comes in and is very much says calls moderation censorship and I need to kiss his ass, I put his friend on the board and I start calling moderation censorship. Mark Zuckerberg, I'll give it to him for this. He is totally predictable. He is all about shareholder value. And quite frankly, and I hate to say this, he's doing his job, we're not doing ours. To have some semblance of a democracy that is based on information, that has fact checking, that pursues truth without favor instead of allowing monopolies to develop such that two thirds of our information comes from a misinformation. Lollapalooza. One of the core tenets of America is you get to love who you want to love. You get to live the life you want to lead. Does that mean we should have people born as males in girls sports? I don't think so. But does it mean you should have a media platform where 2/3 of America get their news, be able to disparage them and create conspiracy theory that puts them in physical harm that's about as anti masculine, much less anti American as you can imagine. So I can predict everything Mark Zuckerberg's going to do what gets the share price from $712 to $712.01. And the reason we have an operating system called capitalism is such that there are individuals that are like that, full body contact, lie, cheat, to get more shareholder value. We actually need some of that. What we also need is a regulatory body that says, no, you can't pour mercury into the river to get a cost advantage and no, you can't spread hate, even though it's a fantastic business model. So I don't even fault Zuckerberg. Yeah, I don't like the man. I think he's a terrible role model for young people. But we're the ones at fault here. We have let this monster evolve in our midst because it makes a lot of money and because the Senate Minority Leader Charles Schumer daughter used to work at Meta. And because they probably help us track down and kill spies. And because they create a ton of money for shareholders and because they weaponize femininity in the form of Sheryl Sandberg to pretend she gives a flying fuck about gender in the workplace such that they think, oh, they're such nice people and they just need to do better and they're proud of their progress. You can't have capitalism unless there is an operating system that keeps this in check. Then taxes people such that we can reinvest in the greatest innovation in history in the middle class and control the emissions and control the pesticides.

[Scott Galloway]

Can I get away just from shareholder? What do you think is happening to these men? They're not just shareholder. There's something else happening to them.

[Unnamed Female Co-host]

I can't fucking figure it out.

[Scott Galloway]

I can tell you a dozen people who are utterly normal, who send me crazy shit about trans people, about vaccines, about all these people were completely normal. And now it's beyond shareholder, it's something else.

[Unnamed Female Co-host]

Should, should the Democrat. Should the first executive action of President Biden be around trans athletes and wait three years for any policy on immigration? No. The Democrats have invited this bullshit by being being hyper focused on niche issues that don't affect that many people instead of just saying we have laws to protect them or we're gonna force the laws. At the same time, the far right deciding to find this small group of people and demonize them and terrorize them. I mean, one is stupid. What the far left has done has been tone deaf and politically stupid. What the far right has done, it's just inhuman. It's just not. You don't treat people that way.

[Scott Galloway]

But why have all these all tech, all tech, like except if they work for W Worldwide Wrestling organization or something like that. Something has happened to so many of them and their love of conspiracy theories, it's like they've smoked their own dope a little too long and it's laced with fentanyl.

[Unnamed Female Co-host]

I think there's still people. There's Marek Benioff, there's Brian Chesky is offering places for people to stay.

[Scott Galloway]

There's something at the top here of these. You know this, Troy.

[Unnamed Female Co-host]

It's the loudest. Bezos, I don't think it's most of them. I think it's the loudest ones. All right, I've heard and I don't even think Bezos is embracing conspiracy theory. What I just don't get, I just don't get is I have 1%, 0.1% of the wealth of these guys and I have enough money that I can live an amazing life and like try. And finally, after 45 years of being an uber capitalist and focusing on three things, me, me and fucking me, I can start actually like being a real man.

[Scott Galloway]

You are a real man.

[Unnamed Female Co-host]

Where are the men here? Why would you aggregate $110 billion if you couldn't say no. I'm not gonna give money to your inaugural campaign. Whether you wanna put me in jail, try it, boss. I know you want me to let unfettered hate on my platform. No, I don't do that. I protect people. I have a pair of fucking testicles. I protect people. I don't get it.

[Scott Galloway]

What I don't get, and this is the one part, and this is a personal message for me, is all of you have children. And Mark, you have three daughters. You are not a good parent right now to your daughters. What you're doing is reprehensible to your children. And I hope you're gonna regret what you're doing right now. And the words that are coming out of your mouth for reasons I don't know. Get off social media. Get off of interviews. Everything you say seems stupider and stupider. And it's shameful what you're doing. Especially, you know, if you had sons. I think it's shameful. But it's particularly shameful when you have three daughters. It just is. I just. I can't even begin. And Elon Musk, forget it. How he talks about trans people as a trans daughter. Just focus on your families, maybe a little more and less on your. On your gold chains and your haircuts and whatever the fuck else you want to do anyway. We'll take one more quick break. We'll be back for wins and fails.

[Unnamed Male Co-host]

Support for the show comes from Delta air lines. In 2025, Delta Air Lines turns 100 years old. That's a century of changing the way we fly. A century of making the world more accessible. By transforming global travel, Delta has led the way in shaping solutions that improve the lives of their customers. Looking to the next one 100 years, they're thinking boldly and moving quickly to implement impactful innovations that make every journey as unique as you are. Delta is evolving the in flight entertainment experience with new partnerships and features unlocked with your SkyMiles membership. Delta sync seatback gives you in flight access to curated entertainment, exclusive offers and more from brands you love. And coming soon, you'll be able to access even more tools to help you customize your onboarding experience and get ready to arrive at your destination. And coming soon, your Fly Delta app will give you access to Delta Concierge, a series of AI capabilities built into the app to give you more control and confidence navigating your travel experience. Whether you're a frequent flyer or an occasional jet setter, Delta Concierge will make you feel like a travel Pro. Go to Deltaunlocks.com to learn more about the future of travel with Delta.

[Unnamed Female Co-host]

This week on Profit you Markets, we speak with Ramit Sethi, bestselling author of I Will Teach youh to Be Rich and his brand new book, Money for Couples. We discuss why he recommends joint bank accounts for couples, the pros and cons of prenups, and the most common arguments couples have about money. Your $20 extra purchase at Target is not the reason that you're stressed out about money. It almost always tracks back to two expenses and one big problem. The two expenses are people overspend on housing, they overspend on cars, they have no idea how to calculate affordability. And the real problem is they just don't have a shared vision for their rich life. You can find that conversation and many others exclusively on the Prof. G Markets podcast.

[Scott Galloway]

Okay Scott, let's hear some wins and fails. Would you like to go first?

[Unnamed Female Co-host]

Sure, I'll go first. I just have a win. My win is the aerial firefighters. This is these pilots risk their lives flying at low altitudes in smoky turbulent conditions, often in mountainous terrain to help protect communities and natural resources. Their work era is both highly skilled and incredibly dangerous. You want to talk about masculine energy, incredibly skilled, highly dangerous work in the service of others without any expectation of recognition. They have air tankers retrofitted DC10s. I love those converted airliners. I used to go look at those at LAX with my father when I was a kid. C130 Hercules Bombardier CL415s which are amphibious water scoopers. Those things are beautiful the way they aren't they? They hover, they skim across the water. Helicopter pilots and the Sikorsky S70 Firehawks or Bell 212s, where there probably are more female pilots, is in the spotter and lead planes that help identify and spot the exact location for the retardants to be expectorated. The Wildfire operations coordinators. There's a ton of people figuring out how to make this successful and load the retardants and use AI and incredibly complex navigation system. Can you imagine how dangerous it is to have all of these aircraft in and around LA flying at 200 miles an hour? It's amazing they haven't hit each other. Most of them have a military background. Many aerial firefighter pilots are former military aviators, particularly from the Air Force or Navy. Given their experience with large aircraft and challenging conditions, a lot have civilian experience. Others come from civilian aviation backgrounds with additional specialized training and low altitude high stress flight operations.

[Scott Galloway]

May I interject There's a movie that you will like, Scott. It's called Always and it's with Richard Dreyfuss and Holly Hunter along with Audrey Hepburn. And it's a 1989 film about an aerial firefighter who risks his life in fighting forest fires. That's interesting. You should watch it. He does not make it, but it's all about that. And it's a wonderful movie. John Goodman's in it. I think you would. You need to watch that tonight if you can. It's called always 1989. I love this movie. It's a wonderful movie and it's about just this topic. And there's a lot of technical stuff in it about aerial firefighting which is really incredibly hard, astonishingly risk taking and for the service of others, as you said.

[Unnamed Female Co-host]

And then they require specific certification. The pilots must meet strict Federal Aviation Administration or the FAA or equivalent regulatory standards and complete training for water retardant drops, fire behavior. Yep, they test and I'm telling you my predict. Prediction. I'll go to a prediction. The Pacific Palisades in five years is going to be one of the nicest neighborhoods in America when they rebuild. I mean a. It's a gorgeous. I used to go to Palisades High School when I was at uni for basketball games. The Palisades is spectacular.

[Scott Galloway]

Spectacular.

[Unnamed Female Co-host]

And when you have the ability. This is an opportunity for Los Angeles to not only rethink what happened and be.

[Scott Galloway]

Mixed use would be great because there were mobile homes and middle class homes and really rich homes there. That was what I found really. I mean they all prices went up for all of them. But boy was that a mixed environment. Didn't you find that? That was always surprising to me.

[Unnamed Female Co-host]

Anyways, my win are the aerial. The brave aerial firefighters and the support staff. They are really doing just outstanding work. And it's also. It's just such a. When you think about what is great about our species, our ability to cooperate our technology. And in the face of all that technology and prosperity, there are a lot of people who still decide to take very aggressive risks. They could use that Certific to fly 787s between here and New York and make a good living. And instead they get in a fucking plane and hover at 240 miles an hour at an altitude of 10ft, expectorate this shit in an exact area and then pull up with about a 1 second margin of error. And nobody even meets these people. No one has any idea. Anyways, that's my win.

[Scott Galloway]

Can you Please watch this movie. It's all about how they do it and how they do drops and how they train drops. I know so much about aerial firefighting from this movie. You will love it. And you will cry at the end like a little lady. Well, like a little man. Cause men cry, everybody. Masculine energy is about crying too. My win is the Justice Department has released a report correcting the flawed record on the Tulsa race massacre of 1921. I am so thrilled they did it before Trump got in office. He would have quashed it, confirming it was not just mob violence, but a coordinated military style attack to ruin what was one of the wealthiest black communities in the U.S. i read the whole report. This is a topic. This incident was so hidden for so long and it's gotten a lot of press in the recent years and there's been some cases about reparations and everything else. But what happened here was heinous. This was a thriving economically smart, fast forward wealthiest black communities in the US that they decimated. And I'll tell you, the pictures, look, they burnt it down. They burnt it down and it was over. Unclear situation between a black man and a white woman. And obviously, which all these things start like that. But I recommend reading it and I commend the Justice Department for releasing the report, especially now before that. So that's, you know, my win. I think my fail is these billionaires and they're, you know what? You have the most money of anyone in the history of the planet and you're miserable people. And you don't bring anything but misery on people. You do not help people. Stop up peacocking around. You are tiny, small men right now and you couldn't be smaller and you have the opportunity. When Elon Musk attacked Mackenzie Scott, Jeff Bezos's ex wife, for being a danger, or Melinda Gates for being a danger, that's what they do. You know what Mackenzie Scott did? She doubled her giving. She gambled. While that's what masculine energy is, or whatever they want to call it.

[Unnamed Female Co-host]

And by the way, that is masculine energy.

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah, that's correct.

[Unnamed Female Co-host]

And I always feel as if I need an asterisk here. A lot of men, including myself and my closest friends, demonstrate wonderful femininity, nurturing, more thoughtful, more measured, more protected. And a lot of women demonstrate fantastic masculine energy. The only kind of caveat I would put to what you're saying is there are a lot of billionaires in LA and in tech who are trying to do the right thing right away. Brian Chesky came out with a program that said, if you need a place to live, go on our platform or a place to stay and we're going to help you.

[Scott Galloway]

Yep, for free. He did it before. He did that before.

[Unnamed Female Co-host]

In many other cases, it's the opportunists, and opportunists go up and down the income stack. But when you start saying DEI is die or asking the governor to resign because he's a threat to your vice president in 2028 and creating conspiracy theory and letting conspiracy run amok. I'm sorry. I didn't mean to weaponize or take over your film.

[Scott Galloway]

You can take it. Let me just say. You know what you should do, Mark? Get off fucking Joe Rogan and write a check. Just write a check.

[Unnamed Female Co-host]

100%.

[Scott Galloway]

Just write a check. Shut up. We don't need any more of your outfits or your chains. Write a check. Keep your mouth shut and stop being such an endless, pathetic whatever you happen to be. Write a check. That's what we want from you and that's all we want. Otherwise, keep it to yourself. Go get a therapist and apologize to your daughters at this as soon as possible. Anyway, that's the show. We'll be back on Friday for more.

[Unnamed Female Co-host]

The Indignant Podcast. Jesus Christ.

[Scott Galloway]

I know, but let me just. I am. Because I have masculine fucking energy and I don't like people taking it.

[Unnamed Female Co-host]

I agree.

[Scott Galloway]

Which one of us has more masculine energy? You are right.

[Unnamed Female Co-host]

Oh, that's an easy one. It's the woman who stayed here all weekend. It was the squatter here. Literally. I see brute aftershave in, like, armpit hair everywhere in my bathroom right now.

[Scott Galloway]

Scott will cry at the drop of a fucking hat.

[Unnamed Female Co-host]

I do not.

[Scott Galloway]

So let's just say we know of what we speak here and we represent it. And those of us with masculine energy would like you all to shut the fuck up. That's what I would say. Read us out.

[Unnamed Female Co-host]

Today's show is produced by Lara Naiman, Zoe Margus and Taylor Griffin. Ernie and her Todd engineered this episode. Episode. Thanks also to Drew Burrows, Ms. Saverio and Dan Shulan. Nishak Kurwa is Vox Media's executive producer of audio. Make sure you subscribe to the show wherever you listen to podcasts. Thank you for listening to Pivot from New York Magazine and Vox Media. You can subscribe to the [e-mail] pod we'll be back later this week for another breakdown of all things tech and business. My big unlock this week was recognizing, calling and asking if you can help. It's not the right thing to do. It's just helping. Just doing it. Send money. Here's the picture of the room that I want you to come stay at, out of harm's way. I am taking your kids. Drop off food. Don't ask to help, just help.