Episode Overview

Title: The Casino-ification of America
Podcast: Plain English with Derek Thompson
Date: March 20, 2026
Guests: McKay Coppins (The Atlantic)

In this episode, Derek Thompson is joined by Atlantic writer McKay Coppins to explore the rapid and profound spread of gambling culture in America. Anchored in Coppins’ own year-long investigative experiment as a sports bettor (despite religious reservations), the conversation explores how gambling has embedded itself in everything from sports and politics to news and war, examining personal, economic, cultural, and moral consequences. Together, they probe the economics, regulation, risks, and the pervasive reach of betting, including prediction markets, and consider what it all means for American life and decency.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Personal Journey: From Mormon to “Degenerate Gambler”

• [05:09] McKay Coppins describes being assigned the story despite being a practicing Mormon, a group traditionally averse to gambling. At his editor’s suggestion, he is staked $10,000 by The Atlantic to bet on sports, with profits split 50/50:
  • “I was intrigued...Part for religious reasons, partly just not that interested. I’m a sports fan. I felt like I didn’t really need to bet on the games to enjoy them. But I did go and consult my bishop about it, which was an awkward conversation.” (Coppins [06:44])
• Coppins admits that gambling “can be fun”—he immediately feels a synthetic emotional bond with a random NFL game due to his bet:
  • “Within 10 minutes, I was like, oh, this is why people do this. Because I had purchased a synthetic rooting interest in a game that I would otherwise have no reason to care about.” (Coppins [08:19])
• After a first win:
  • “When you have your first win as a gambler, there's kind of nothing like it.” (Coppins [09:20])

2. Potted History: Gambling in America

• [11:21] Gambling was considered a “civilizationally ruinous vice” from the colonial era through the late 20th century, tolerated only as necessary but strictly regulated and stigmatized (e.g., riverboats, red-light districts):
  • "George Washington...talked about how gambling can be linked to every other evil. You know, it's the child of avarice, et cetera." (Coppins [11:38])
• The major shift begins in 2012 when Chris Christie (as NJ Governor) signs a law legalizing sports betting—eventually leading to the 2018 Supreme Court decision (Murphy v. NCAA) overturning PASPA, permitting sports betting nationwide.

3. The Sports-League 180: From Righteous Indignation to Full Embrace

• The NFL, NBA, and other leagues previously lobbied hard against gambling; by 2018, they struck direct partnerships and promoted betting, largely for economic reasons.
  • "Gambling was seen by these leagues as a way to reengage younger fans especially and to prop up sagging TV ratings." (Coppins [16:57])
• Both direct (ad, licensing fees) and indirect (increased game engagement) benefits fuel this shift.
• Now, leagues and sportsbooks are deeply intertwined, creating risks and conflicts of interest:
  • "The power dynamics between the online sportsbooks and the leagues are getting a little bit uncomfortable for some people in professional sports." (Coppins [20:08])

4. The Odds Against Bettors: Lessons from Nate Silver

• [20:41] Coppins consults stats guru Nate Silver on how to bet smart. Silver ridicules his “rookie” moves, emphasizes that most bets are structured for fun, not for profit:
  • "The most popular bets are typically the worst deals. They're popular for a reason. They are made to look fun for a reason...sports books have an inverse relationship between fun and profitability for the better." (Thompson [24:10])
  • Silver’s key advice: Stick to point spreads, avoid parlays and live bets, stay away from the NFL, and don’t chase losses.
• If you get too good at betting, the platforms will “limit” or even ban you:
  • "If you are consistently winning money, a book will start limiting the amount of money you can gamble on any given game to like $25 or something. Right. Which is kind of insane when you think about it. Like, it shows...the entire system is developed to be fun, not for you to make money." (Coppins [27:50])

5. Four Categories of Gambling Risk

a. Risk to Individual Bettors

• Addiction rate: 2–5% of gamblers, but as gambling explodes, total numbers surge (underage, hidden nature of gambling addiction).
  • “Gambling addiction doesn’t manifest physically the same way…much easier to hide a gambling addiction at first than...drug addiction or alcoholism...” (Coppins [31:25])
• Platforms claim to monitor for problem gambling, but 90% of sportsbook revenue comes from 10% of users (most vulnerable to addiction):
  • "The basic economic reality of the sports betting industry is that a majority of their profit comes from the 10% of people who use their apps the most." (Coppins [35:05])
• Studies show states see a rise in personal bankruptcies after legalizing online gambling.

b. Risk to Individual Athletes

• Online abuse and threats have exploded.
  • Caroline Garcia, pro tennis player: "A recurring theme of her entire career was that after a match, she would look at social media...and see just a stream of the most...vile things you could possibly see from angry gamblers.” (Coppins [43:57])
• Personal example: Coppins describes “irrational” but emotionally compelling hatred for a player who cost him $300 via a fumble.

c. Risk to Integrity of Sports

• High-profile scandals have eroded trust:
  • FBI/NBA arrests; baseball players indicted for manipulating in-game performance for betting.
  • "Two thirds of Americans now believe that professional athletes change their performance to influence gambling outcomes." (Thompson [49:28])
• The true “crisis”: A new conspiratorial age where fans now doubt the sincerity of competition.
  • “If we get to the point where Americans think that what they're watching on TV is not on the level...it will eventually just erode interest in the games entirely.” (Coppins [50:00])

d. Risk to American Decency and Broader Social Fabric

• Growth of prediction markets (Polymarket, Kalshi) lets people bet on war, politics, disasters.
  • “These predictive markets are basically…the logical endpoint of the online gambling boom...to see people reduce...every facet of American life...into...an abstract money making venture, I think is incredibly dangerous. It's desensitizing, it's dehumanizing...” (Coppins [55:15])
• Potential for insider trading to influence not just bets, but real-world political and military decisions, i.e., policymakers making bets on outcomes they can then shape.
  • "The darkest timeline is people in government realizing they can make hundreds of thousands of dollars on a bet and then tailoring public policy to fit the bet." (Thompson [62:59])
  • Coppins: "I just think...unless there are dramatic changes...these platforms...will burn themselves out...unless you really do have insider information, you’re just a sucker." (Coppins [62:21])

6. The Policy & Regulatory Challenge

• Sportsbooks tout their willingness to work with regulators, but resist meaningful change (e.g., national self-exclusion lists, mandatory spend limits, advertising restrictions).
  • "They have, I think, certain lessons from...Big Tobacco...and they're trying to be much more conciliatory...they could be doing more." (Coppins [41:00])
• Advertising is omnipresent, hard to avoid even for children watching TV.

7. Reaction & Social Effects

• Most angry feedback comes from identity-invested recreational gamblers.
  • “All these people believe that they're in the 1 to 2% of gamblers who are...ahead. Right. That they make money gambling. That is just statistically impossible.”— (Coppins [66:18])
• Gambling is, for some, a “religion” or core identity—something Coppins sees as “a social catastrophe in the making.”

8. Should Gambling Be Central to American Life?

• Gambling as leisure could be managed—like concerts or hobby spending—but there are unique risks:
  • "There are people who love music concerts…there is not, however, a music concerts Anonymous group..." (Thompson [69:04])
• A consensus for tighter regulation may be emerging across right, left, and center.
  • "...the beginning of an American consensus that we just need to think harder about how to regulate the industry...not criminalize...but apply sensible regulations and guardrails." (Coppins [71:15])
• Striking gender disparity:
  • "If you look at problem gamblers who bet on Sports Online, 98% of them are men." (Coppins [73:03])

Notable Quotes & Moments

• "Gambling can be fun. I remember the first game I bet on...within ten minutes, I was like, oh, this is why people do this." (Coppins [08:19])
• "The most popular bets are typically the worst deals...the entire system is developed to be fun, not for you to make money..." (Thompson/Coppins [24:10, 27:50])
• "90% of revenue comes from 10% of users." (Coppins [35:05])
• "As sports gambling spreads state to state, you can track the rise of personal bankruptcies in each state." (Thompson [38:44])
• "Two thirds of Americans now believe that professional athletes change their performance to influence gambling outcomes." (Thompson [49:28])
• "The darkest timeline is people in government…tailoring public policy to fit the bet." (Thompson [62:59])
• "If you look at problem gamblers who bet on Sports Online, 98% of them are men." (Coppins [73:03])
• "For most of them, it’s a source of enjoyment. It should not be central to who you are. It should not be a religious experience." (Coppins [68:16])

Timestamps: Important Segments

• [05:09] – Coppins begins telling his personal journey and why he agreed to gamble
• [11:21] – Brief history of gambling in America
• [12:51] – The 2012 NJ law and 2018 Supreme Court decision
• [17:51] – Economics of gambling for leagues and broadcasters
• [20:41] – Coppins talks to Nate Silver about betting (do’s and don’ts)
• [30:07] – The four types of harms created by the rise of gambling
• [35:05] – How addiction and problem users drive industry profit
• [43:41] – The impact on athletes: threats, abuse, and consequences
• [49:50] – The erosion of trust in the integrity of sports
• [55:15] – Prediction markets and the spread of “gambling logic” to all life
• [62:59] – The threat of public policy influenced by personal betting incentives
• [66:53] – Gamblers’ angry responses and gambling as personal identity
• [73:03] – Striking gender breakdown of gambling addiction

Flow & Tone

The episode is deeply conversational, blending Coppins’ firsthand misadventures with high-level analysis, wry humor, and cultural critique. Thompson is curious and skeptical, frequently punctuating the discussion with memorable analogies (“Turns leisure into a 1099 document”) and classic Atlantic-level synthesis. Both interrogate the clash between American optimism, vice, and the unintended consequences of mass accessibility.

Summary Takeaways

“The Casino-ification of America” argues that while sports betting and gambling can enhance excitement and engagement, the costs—addiction, bankruptcy, threats, corruption, and a collapsing sense of reality—far outweigh the benefits. Institutional complicity, pervasive marketing, and frictionless online betting have transformed an old vice into a new national habit touching every aspect of modern life, from football to foreign policy.

Regulatory reform, not criminalization, is the consensus solution. The episode closes on a warning: a leisure activity becoming an identity, or a public policy mechanism, is a disaster in the making—and, for the vast majority of Americans, an unbeatable game.