Podcast Summary: Plain English with Derek Thompson

Episode: A Grand Unified Theory of Cultural Stagnation
Date: November 25, 2025
Guest: Adam Mastroianni, social psychologist and writer

Overview

In this episode, Derek Thompson and Adam Mastroianni unpack the pressing question: Why does modern culture feel stagnant—or "stuck"? Through examining trends in architecture, art, film, music, fashion, science, and deviance, they build toward a "grand unified theory" of cultural stagnation. The discussion weaves together psychological, historical, and economic explanations, ultimately suggesting that risk aversion—rooted in an increased valuation of life and reputation—is a driving force behind much of today's repetitive and convergent mass culture.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Tartaria Theory and the Critique of Modern Culture

[01:35]

• Derek introduces the “Tartaria Theory”: a meme-like conspiracy suggesting modern society dwells amongst beautiful remnants of the past (cathedrals, art deco buildings) while building only functional, boring rectangles.
• He frames this as a metaphor for broader cultural stagnation: "The modern world is rich and boring… architecture has lost its ornate grandeur and its variety and its deviance."
• Observation: This lack of novelty extends beyond architecture—into movies, music, branding, science, and even auto design.
  • "I just named a lot of different categories: film and music and artifacts and science, architecture, transportation... Culture... seems to be slowing down, stagnating, converging. Culture is stuck." (B, 05:14)

The Decline of Deviance: Safer, More Rule-Following Societies

[07:34]

• Adam presents data on youth behaviors: Modern teens are less likely to drink, do drugs, commit crime, or get pregnant compared to previous generations.
  • "Compared to their parents and grandparents, kids today are kind of a bunch of goody two shoes." (D, 08:29)
• Cults, crime, and serial killers have plummeted: Data shows sharp declines since their peak in the 1970s and 80s.
• Theory: The increased value placed on life leads to more risk aversion—people are more willing to pay (in money, time, or caution) to prevent harm.
  • "When you realize that you live sort of in a land of milk and honey, at least compared to our ancestors, then you start to realize, oh, maybe I should wear my seatbelt... play it safe." (D, 11:22)

Memorable Quote

"I think the same reason people are committing fewer crimes is the same reason that they're killing fewer people, both in serial fashion or in cultic fashion. I think life matters more in a literal sense."
— Adam Mastroianni [10:00]

[12:18]

• Derek connects falling "deviance" (from crime to cults to hitchhiking) to both risk aversion among would-be victims and a rise in surveillance, saying:

  "We all live...in a kind of polite, soft panopticon where there's a greater expectation that our behavior will be seen and monitored..."

• Both hosts connect this increased risk-aversion to broader cultural stagnation, positing these themes will recur across pop culture domains.

Oligopolies in Culture: Why Do A Few Blockbusters, Artists, and IPs Dominate?

[18:04]

• Adam presents three major explanations:
  1. Invasion: As barriers fall, amateurs can make content (movies, music, books); big companies lean into what only they can do—sequels, reboots, known IP.
  2. Innovation: Through decades of searching, we've optimized for what works (e.g., the "Da Vinci Code" formula in books, cinematic universes in movies).
  3. Proliferation: Choice overload pushes consumers to rely on familiar cues (Tom Hanks, Marvel).
  • "Now, rather than make some kind of indie drama, they want to make another Avengers movie." (D, 18:56)

Memorable Quote

"The people who are best at [the optimized content formulas] can now conquer a big chunk of people's attention. That's why we see the same thing over and over again..."
— Adam Mastroianni [19:23]

[21:38]

• Derek explains blockbuster trends:
  • Globalization made hits with mass appeal (franchises, CGI-heavy, known IP) more valuable and exportable.
  • "Pre-awareness" dominates: Studios invest in brands/audience recognition over originality.
  • Marketing spend on blockbusters makes studios risk-averse—audiences, in turn, expect familiarity.
  • "As Hollywood got smarter about the movie business, the movies got...much more familiar, much less original." (B, 24:36)

The Role of Digital Platforms, Streaming, and Economics in Music

[27:42]

• Private equity and streaming amplify old music: Firms buy classic catalogs and use platforms to make old and new equally accessible; copyrights last for a century.
  • Result: Old superstars (Springsteen, Dylan) dominate charts and pop culture.
• Changes are both psychological and structural (economic):
  • "It's not just like a cultural story, this is like profoundly an economic and even financial story as well." (B, 29:06)

Memorable Quote

"Why is it that people are still listening to Creedence Clearwater, Bruce Springsteen, the Beatles, the Stones? ...I never listened to my parents' music. I thought it was lame and stupid…But now we do."
— Adam Mastroianni [29:16]

[30:37]

• Generational shift: Gen Z watches "Friends" and "The Office"—content from before they were born is just as "new" due to streaming platforms.

The Stagnation of Science: Risk Aversion and Information Overload

[33:48]

• Scientific breakthroughs slow down:
  • "Ideas are getting harder to find" (Stanford/MIT paper, 2020).
  • "Scientific knowledge has been in clear secular decline since the 1970s."
• Adam attributes this to:
  • Less willingness to fund or reward risky ("big if true") research.
  • Scientists cluster around safe topics, overwhelmed by information.
• Derek posits: The value of reputation is higher; the risk of failure or embarrassment ("social death") now "feels like a second mortality risk."

  "The increasing value of life doesn't just cash out in terms of I don't want to die, but I don't want to die a social death. That everything has to last me now…" (D, 38:52)

Are We Too Good at Imitation? Marketplaces of Attention and the Tyranny of Feedback

[40:20], [42:22]

• Derek's hypothesis: As marketplaces of attention improve, creators and institutions are better at seeing what works and imitating only successful formulas, crowding out novelty.

Memorable Quote

"We become, in a weird way, almost cursed by the knowledge of likely success and existing success…If you want to produce popular things, you know where to look for what's already popular and then you make exactly that kind of thing."
— Derek Thompson [40:37]

• Adam: Tightened feedback cycles (instant data on clicks, listens, views) reinforce sameness—but many of these stasis trends began pre-internet.

Exceptions, Fashion, and the Rise of the "Long Tail"

[45:00]

• Internet & TikTok do foster weird micro-cultures—but much of their content recycles old IP from decades past.

• In fashion, there's more churn in the last 30 years than in previous centuries—indicating counter-trends in some areas.

• Baby names as a unique exception: Names have become more individualistic and fashion-driven, with parents seeking uniqueness for their children.

  "No one's going to kill you because your name is Kayla. ...We want them to be maximally unique. After they appear, we want them to really fit into a successful mold." (D, 51:26; 53:44)

• Notable theory: Markets without prices/scarcity (baby names) encourage risk; those with (film, music) encourage safety.

Criticisms, Feedback, and Broader Implications

[54:44]

• Adam: While much reader feedback focuses on the downside of cultural stagnation, the upside is massive: youth are safer, less deviant; crime and cults are down.
  • It's a "miraculous" shift that would have seemed utopian to past generations.
  • But: This achievement may come at the cost of deviant creativity, risk-taking, and boundary-pushing in culture.

Memorable Closing Quote

"Often when there's any trend in culture, people...focus on the downside of it, and the downsides are bad, and I want us to do something about them. The upsides are really good. There's less crime. People are less likely to kill each other...I'm also so glad to be alive and not be murdered. That, I think, is awesome."
— Adam Mastroianni [54:44]

• Derek's reflection:

  "Maybe a society that...seeks out cheap ways to be individual, like having unique baby names, but is afraid of expensive ways to stand out, like taking a big stand in a way that might cause reputational damage. Maybe overall this is not the worst way for a society to evolve."
  — Derek Thompson [56:25]

Notable Quotes by Timestamp

• "Compare to their parents and grandparents, kids today are kind of a bunch of goody two shoes." — Adam [8:29]
• "We live sort of in a land of milk and honey, at least compared to our ancestors, then you start to realize ... maybe I should play it safe." — Adam [11:22]
• "As Hollywood got smarter ... the movies got much more familiar, much less original." — Derek [24:36]
• "Why is it that people are still listening to Creedence Clearwater ... Now we do." — Adam [29:16]
• "The increasing value of life doesn't just cash out in terms of I don't want to die, but I don't want to die a social death." — Adam [38:52]
• "We become ... almost cursed by the knowledge of likely success and existing success." — Derek [40:37]
• "No one's going to kill you because your name is Kayla ... you want to stand out without getting caught out." — Adam [51:26]
• "There's less crime. People are less likely to kill each other ... I'm also so glad to be alive and not be murdered. That, I think, is awesome." — Adam [54:44]
• "Maybe overall this is not the worst way for society to evolve." — Derek [56:25]

Timestamps for Key Segments

• The Tartaria Theory and Modern Stagnation: [01:35—06:24]
• The Decline of Deviance (crime, cults, etc.): [07:34—16:49]
• Blockbusters, IP, Oligopolies in Culture: [18:04—25:21]
• Music, Old IP, and the Financialization of Culture: [27:42—32:50]
• The Slow Science Problem: [33:48—38:52]
• Marketplaces, Feedback Loops, Theories: [40:20—43:54]
• Long Tail, Fashion, Baby Names, and Exceptions: [45:00—54:02]
• Reactions and Final Reflections: [54:44—57:43]

Final Thoughts

Plain English's exploration of cultural stagnation is rich, nuanced, and timely. Derek Thompson and Adam Mastroianni ultimately argue that the same forces making us safer and better-behaved may also be stifling risk, novelty, and big creative leaps. The grand unified theory: In a society that values safety, life, and reputation more than ever before, both deviance and originality—in art, science, and beyond—may be the price we pay for peace, prosperity, and long lives. Whether this is a “bad trend” or an inevitable and even desirable outcome is left as a question for listeners to ponder.