Plain English with Derek Thompson

Episode: How Progressives Froze the American Dream (Live)
Release Date: February 25, 2025
Host: Derek Thompson
Guest: Yoni Applebaum, Deputy Executive Director of The Atlantic and Author of Stuck

Overview

In this live episode of Plain English, Derek Thompson engages in a deep and insightful conversation with Yoni Applebaum about the decline in geographic mobility in the United States. Drawing from Applebaum's influential work, the discussion delves into how progressive housing policies and zoning laws have inadvertently hindered the traditional American Dream of moving towards better opportunities. The episode meticulously traces the historical evolution of mobility in America, analyzes the contemporary challenges, and explores potential solutions to restore the nation's dynamic spirit.

1. The Stagnant American Economy

Key Points:

• Current Economic Stagnation: Thompson characterizes the U.S. economy as "stuck," highlighting issues in the labor and housing markets.
• Labor Market Contradictions: Despite a low unemployment rate of around 4%, finding a job has become increasingly difficult.
• Housing Market Challenges: High interest rates, looming tariffs, and barriers for young first-time homebuyers have contributed to economic stagnation.

Notable Quotes:

• Derek Thompson (01:12): "If you were going to think of one word to describe the U.S. economy at this moment, I think you could do a lot worse than the word stuck."
• Yoni Applebaum (02:48): "I think right now it's stuck."

2. Decline of Geographic Mobility

Key Points:

• Historical Mobility Rates: In the late 19th century, one-third of Americans moved annually. Today, the rate has plummeted to approximately 7%.
• Implications of Reduced Mobility: Applebaum argues that decreased mobility leads to social disconnection and hampers individual identity reconstruction.

Notable Quotes:

• Derek Thompson (09:14): "The annual rate of mobility has gone from about 30% of the country to about 7% of the country. That's an enormous change."
• Yoni Applebaum (11:19): "The decline of migration in America is absolutely critical to explain so much of what Americans think has gone wrong in this country."

3. Historical Context: Moving Day and Early Mobility

Key Points:

• Moving Day Phenomenon: In the late 19th century, cities experienced "Moving Day," a mass migration event where thousands moved simultaneously, fostering a dynamic society.
• Role of Zoning Laws: The introduction of zoning laws in the 1880s, initially aimed at segregating Chinese laundromats in Modesto, California, marked the beginning of regulated mobility.

Notable Quotes:

• Yoni Applebaum (20:19): "Moving Day was crazy. It was total chaos. Tourists from Europe would come to watch Americans move in this wild, dynamic fashion."
• Derek Thompson (29:21): "The first zoning ordinance in America was very explicitly about creating zones that segregated by race and class."

4. Evolution and Impact of Zoning Laws

Key Points:

• Spread of Zoning Nationwide: From its origins in California, zoning laws spread across the U.S., especially during the New Deal era, embedding segregation by race and class.
• Legalization and Bureaucracy: Zoning became entrenched as a standard municipal tool, making new construction subject to stringent government approval.

Notable Quotes:

• Yoni Applebaum (32:24): "By the 1950s and 1960s, zoning had spread nationwide, becoming a tool for segregation and limiting mobility."
• Derek Thompson (34:43): "Every bit of new construction in the country is something that the government needs to approve. If you put those two things together, it's a really dramatic change."

5. Progressive Policies and the Erosion of Mobility

Key Points:

• Shift in Government Attitudes: Around the 1970s, both conservatives and liberals grew distrustful of big government, leading to laws that made challenging zoning decisions easier.
• Public Interest Litigation: Laws allowed individuals to block developments under various pretexts, drastically reducing new housing projects.

Notable Quotes:

• Yoni Applebaum (35:39): "You can challenge any government decision in the public interest. This made it almost impossible to build anything new."
• Derek Thompson (38:05): "Your cover story is not called why Property Owners Froze the American Dream... but it seems almost like inverting."

6. Consequences of Restrictive Zoning

Key Points:

• Affluent Blue Cities as Low-Mobility Zones: Progressive cities, often with high economic growth, have become the most restrictive, exacerbating housing affordability issues.
• Intergenerational Impact: Housing policies have trapped multiple generations in areas with limited economic prospects, intensifying social inequalities.

Notable Quotes:

• Yoni Applebaum (17:22): "If you are a janitor in rural Alabama and you move to San Francisco, you'll end up way behind financially."
• Yoni Applebaum (40:23): "The more progressive those Democrats are, the worse the problem typically is."

7. Generational Shifts and the Future of Housing Policy

Key Points:

• Generational Divide: Younger progressives are more supportive of smart growth and housing abundance, contrasting with older generations' resistance to change.
• Emerging Solutions: This generational shift is leading to local-level changes aimed at increasing housing availability and restoring mobility.

Notable Quotes:

• Yoni Applebaum (51:42): "The younger generation tends to see that smart growth is an answer... they are eager for solutions because they love their communities and want them to thrive."
• Derek Thompson (53:24): "Any serious effort to restore mobility should follow three simple principles... The third principle is abundance."

8. Proposed Principles to Restore Mobility

Key Points: Applebaum outlines three fundamental principles essential for restoring American mobility and rejuvenating the housing market:

1. Consistency: Uniform application of rules across cities to ensure diverse populations and uses.
2. Tolerance: Embracing organic and unpredictable growth, allowing individuals to choose where they want to live.
3. Abundance: Aggressive increase in housing availability to meet demand and facilitate movement.

Notable Quotes:

• Yoni Applebaum (54:07): "We need a lot of housing. We have 50 years of housing to make up."
• Derek Thompson (53:24): "The third principle is abundance."

Conclusion

In How Progressives Froze the American Dream, Derek Thompson and Yoni Applebaum present a compelling analysis of how well-intentioned progressive policies have inadvertently stifled America's foundational ethos of mobility and opportunity. By tracing the historical evolution of zoning laws and their modern implications, the episode underscores the urgent need to reform housing policies to revive the dynamic and inclusive American Dream.

Listener Engagement:

• Email Suggestions: If listeners have topics they wish to be discussed, they are encouraged to email plainenglish@spotify.com.
• Social Media: Follow the podcast on TikTok at @plainenglish_.

Disclaimer: This summary focuses solely on the content discussed by Derek Thompson and Yoni Applebaum, excluding advertisements, introductions, and outros as per the request.