Plain English with Derek Thompson Episode: Megapod: The Crisis in American Science Release Date: May 2, 2025

Introduction

In this compelling episode of Plain English with Derek Thompson, Thompson dives deep into the pressing issue facing American science: the severe budget cuts imposed during the Trump administration. Titled "Megapod: The Crisis in American Science," the episode dissects the ramifications of slashing funding to pivotal institutions like the National Institutes of Health (NIH) and the National Science Foundation (NSF), featuring insightful discussions with three distinguished guests—Holden Thorpe, Bhavan Sampat, and Pierre Azoulet.

The Crisis in American Science

[01:35] Derek Thompson sets the stage by outlining the Trump administration's drastic measures in its first 100 days, which included dismissing thousands of workers from the NIH and NSF. Proposed budget cuts aimed to reduce NIH funding by 40% and NSF by 50%, threatening to dismantle half of the scientific funding pipeline essential for America's universities and researchers.

Notable Quote:

"Trump's science crackdown has already canceled research across cancer, diabetes, Alzheimer's and more," Thompson explains at [05:15], highlighting the immediate impact on critical medical research and ongoing clinical trials.

Interview 1: Holden Thorpe – The Strengths and Vulnerabilities of American Science

[08:45] Thompson engages with Holden Thorpe, the Editor-in-Chief of Science, who provides a historical perspective on the American science system's success. Thorpe attributes the robustness of U.S. science to the vision of Vannevar Bush, who, post-World War II, established a federally funded research enterprise centered in universities, fostering independence and innovation.

Key Insights:

• Economic Impact: Thorpe cites studies indicating that every dollar invested in basic research yields five dollars in economic growth ([12:58]), underscoring the financial prudence of such investments.
• Current Threats: He warns that budget cuts not only stunt ongoing research but also deter young scientists, exacerbating the talent loss exacerbated by restrictive immigration policies.

Notable Quote:

"We're really just going to cut it in two and light the left half on fire for what? To save $15 billion?" Thorpe passionately criticizes the shortsightedness of budget cuts at [17:35].

Interview 2: Bhavan Sampat – The Birth and Evolution of the American Innovation System

[46:03] Bhavan Sampat, a researcher and historian at Arizona State University, delves into the historical underpinnings of the American science system. He traces the origins of the NIH back to the Marine Hospital Service established in the late 1790s and details how World War II catalyzed the transformation of scientific research in the U.S.

Key Insights:

• World War II Mobilization: The creation of the Office of Scientific Research and Development (OSRD) under Vannevar Bush was pivotal in coordinating scientific efforts for the war, laying the foundation for post-war federal funding of basic research.
• Post-War Expansion: Sampat discusses the Ransdell Act of 1930 and how it expanded the scope of the NIH, eventually leading to its role as a cornerstone of American biomedical research.

Notable Quote:

"OSRD's effort was so successful that everybody knew that the era of small government and science funding was over," Sampat asserts at [56:12], emphasizing the enduring legacy of wartime scientific mobilization.

Interview 3: Pierre Azoulet – Critique and Paths Forward for NIH and American Science

[75:39] Pierre Azoulet, a researcher at MIT, offers a critical analysis of the American science system and the NIH. He argues that the current funding model stifles high-risk, high-reward research due to an over-reliance on peer review, which favors incremental and safer projects.

Key Insights:

• Peer Review Limitations: Azoulet contends that the peer review process at NIH discourages innovation by prioritizing projects with predictable outcomes over groundbreaking but uncertain research.
• Administrative Burden: He highlights the excessive paperwork and grant-writing demands placed on scientists, diverting time away from actual research.

Notable Quotes:

"It's like swinging on a treadmill; if you step off even for a nanosecond, it's going to be very hard to get back on." Azoulet laments the unsustainable nature of the current funding pressures at [87:08].

"Peer review is kind of the worst system, except for all the others." He candidly critiques the system's flaws at [121:39].

Proposed Reforms:

• Modified Funding Models: Azoulet suggests experimenting with alternative funding mechanisms, such as randomized lotteries for grant awards, to reduce bias and encourage more diverse research.
• Longer Time Horizons: Drawing inspiration from institutions like the Howard Hughes Medical Institute (HHMI), he advocates for funding models that provide scientists with greater autonomy and longer-term support, enabling them to pursue more ambitious projects without the constant pressure of grant renewal.

Conclusion and Takeaways

Derek Thompson wraps up the episode by emphasizing the critical importance of American science to national progress and well-being. He expresses concern that the current trajectory of funding cuts and systemic inefficiencies could irreparably damage the scientific landscape, ultimately hindering medical breakthroughs and economic advancements.

Final Takeaway:

"American science is too important to not be obsessed with making it better. And American science is too important to destroy." Thompson underscores the necessity for constructive reform over destructive cuts, urging stakeholders to prioritize the integrity and sustainability of the scientific ecosystem.

Summary

"Megapod: The Crisis in American Science" offers a thorough examination of the challenges confronting American scientific research. Through expert interviews and incisive analysis, Thompson elucidates how budgetary slashes, administrative burdens, and a restrictive funding model threaten to undermine decades of scientific achievement. The episode calls for a reassessment of funding strategies and institutional reforms to ensure that American science remains a beacon of innovation and discovery.

Notable Quotes with Timestamps:

• Derek Thompson [05:15]: "Trump's science crackdown has already canceled research across cancer, diabetes, Alzheimer's and more."
• Holden Thorpe [17:35]: "We're really just going to cut it in two and light the left half on fire for what? To save $15 billion?"
• Bhavan Sampat [56:12]: "OSRD's effort was so successful that everybody knew that the era of small government and science funding was over."
• Pierre Azoulet [87:08]: "It's like swinging on a treadmill; if you step off even for a nanosecond, it's going to be very hard to get back on."
• Pierre Azoulet [121:39]: "Peer review is kind of the worst system, except for all the others."
• Derek Thompson [122:36]: "American science is too important to not be obsessed with making it better. And American science is too important to destroy."

This episode serves as a crucial call to action for policymakers, scientists, and the public to engage in meaningful dialogue and implement reforms that safeguard the future of American science.