Podcast Summary

Plain English with Derek Thompson

Episode: BEST OF: How to Be Happy and the Science of Cognitive Time Travel
Date: December 2, 2025
Host: Derek Thompson
Guest: Dr. Laurie Santos (Yale cognitive scientist & host of The Happiness Lab)

Overview

In this “Best Of” compilation, Derek Thompson and Dr. Laurie Santos dive deep into the science and philosophy of happiness, exploring how our ability to “travel” in our minds to the past, future, and alternate realities is both a source of distress and the key to flourishing. Drawing from psychology, philosophy, and personal anecdotes, they dissect ideas like regret, anxiety, meaning, pleasure, and the effects of technology and relationships on our well-being.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Introduction & Framing (00:00–11:55)

• Theme: The human mind is a "time machine," constantly traveling to the past (regret), the future (anxiety), or unrealized alternate realities (envy, what-if scenarios).
• Central insight: Our unhappiness often springs from losing ourselves in these “unreal corridors of time.” While “being present” is clichéd advice, our unique gift as humans is exactly our ability to think beyond the current moment—if we can learn to drive our time machine skillfully.
  • Derek: “An aardvark can be here now. A hummingbird can be here now. I don’t aspire to the mere consciousness of a hummingbird. I want the richness, the messiness, the complexity afforded to me by the human brain.” (09:00)
• Philosophy: All traditions—from Stoicism to Buddhism and positive psychology—echo the value of not losing ourselves in the past or future, but also not denying human faculties for reflection and foresight.

Laurie Santos on Happiness and Her Work (11:55–14:30)

• Laurie describes her "flow" in finding the perfect episode quote or moment to build a podcast around:
  • “I can do that for hours and hours, and it gives me tremendous flow, or time is passing really quickly and I forget to go to the bathroom and stuff like that.” (12:53)
• She agrees with Derek’s analogy: podcast editing (sculpting) vs. writing (painting).

Defining Happiness: “In” vs. “For” Your Life (14:30–18:27)

• Laurie introduces the distinction (from Sonia Lyubomirsky) between:
  • Happiness “in” your life: The sum of your moment-to-moment positive feelings (includes joy, laughter, even bittersweet emotions).
  • Happiness “with/for” your life: Broader life satisfaction, meaning, sense of purpose.
  • “It's sort of how you feel in your life versus how you think your life is. ... I think a good life involves a little bit of both.” (15:38)
• Takeaway: True fulfillment stacks both pleasure and purpose—think of “good days” that combine meaningful achievement and momentary joy.

Expectation, Struggle, and the Human Condition (18:27–24:32)

• Our expectations about an activity—sometimes more than the experience itself—shape our happiness. Suffering in service of purpose/meaning (parenting, marathons, climbing Everest) can be deeply rewarding in retrospect.
• Reframing device: Even if something is “sucky” now, the knowledge that it yields meaning or future joy helps us endure (20:56).
• We’re wired for struggle and challenge, not endless cake-eating or effortless pleasure.
  • “There is something contentment-giving about denying yourself a certain amount of contentment in the present and telling yourself that this is in service to some larger story.” (21:48)

Flow, Challenge, and Achievable Goals (23:20–24:32)

• Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi’s flow: People love losing themselves in achievable challenges; happiness springs from immersion in something just hard enough, but still possible.
  • “We want challenge, we need challenge… what creates these moments of ecstatic flow is having a sense in the moment that the challenge is achievable.” (23:39)

Cognitive Time Travel & Psychological Distancing (24:32–28:29)

• Humans are unique for living “everywhere in time”—reflecting on the past, imagining the future, or fantasizing about parallel universes.
• Ethan Kross's research: “Psychological distancing”—imagining your future self (in a week, year, or decades) helps reframe current anxieties or ruminations.
• Notable study: Writing letters to your future self (even 20 years out) increases future-oriented, beneficial behaviors like exercising.
  • “...what Hal found is that when people write to themselves many years off in the future… they wind up exercising more in the weeks following that writing exercise.” (27:15)

Nostalgia, Memory, and Rosy Retrospection (29:55–35:06)

• The mind can “edit” the past, making hard times seem better in retrospect (“rosy retrospection”).
  • “People’s retrospective evaluation of the trip was higher at that moment than at every single moment in the trip.” (32:53)
• Realizing that you might someday be nostalgic for even tough times can foster gratitude in the present.

Happiness = Expectations Minus Reality? (35:06–38:54)

• Derek challenges the cliche that “happiness equals expectations minus reality”—winners like the Celtics shouldn’t inevitably be miserable because their expectations rise.
• Laurie argues the formula matters somewhat—reference points do shape contentment—but we can intentionally reset reference points (e.g., thinking how your former self would feel).

The Resilience (Impact Bias) of Human Happiness (38:54–41:53)

• Research (Dan Gilbert): People overestimate the lasting impact of both positive (winning the lottery) and negative (amputation) experiences. In reality, we bounce back (the “impact bias”), especially after negative events.
  • “The good news... is that it turns out it's actually bigger for negative events… it's not going to be as bad as you think.” (40:34)

Myopia vs. Hyperopia—Neglecting Present vs. Future (41:53–47:38)

• Myopia: Overvaluing immediate pleasure at the expense of future self (e.g., not saving, not exercising).
• Hyperopia: Delaying all pleasure for an idealized future—rarely using nice things, or not allowing oneself to enjoy the present (e.g., never drinking the good wine).
• Memorable phrase:
  • Derek’s household mantra: “Drink the wine”—don’t save every nice thing for some imagined special occasion. (45:55)
• We can “procrastinate on pleasure” as much as on work.

Time Affluence & "Time Confetti" (47:38–51:11)

• Structurally, people now have more leisure time, but it’s fragmented into tiny pieces—“time confetti.”
• People feel “time impoverished” because these chunks aren’t used well and are often frittered away on phones or emails.
• Practical advice:
  • Ashley Willans suggests making a “time confetti wish list”—a list of short, meaningful activities (not just work) to use in these periods.

The Social Dimension: Social Fitness & Talking to Strangers (51:11–57:27)

• Social fitness: Just like we need to care for our bodies, we need to care for relationships.
• Evidenced-based finding: People predict that talking to strangers (Uber drivers, seatmates) will be awkward/miserable. In reality, studies show these interactions increase happiness for both introverts and extroverts.
  • Laurie: “The data are really clear here. Study after study just shows our predictions about social connection are wrong.” (56:41)
• Modernity, technology, and post-COVID habits make us behave more introverted, which may be a “mass delusion”—we underestimate benefits of social connection.

Technology & “Eliminating the Human” (59:05–63:01)

• Technologies often reduce human contact (food delivery, ATMs, streaming); this frictionless convenience may diminish social bonding.
• Anecdote: The inventor of the ATM’s wife prefers “chatting with the teller”—foreseeing the tradeoff between convenience and human connection.

Present Distraction, Smartphones, and Attention (63:01–65:03)

• Even the presence (not just use) of smartphones pulls at our attention and subtly detracts from social interaction.
  • Laurie: “Your brain knows that on the other side of your smartphone is all that stuff and much, much, much more.” (63:32)
  • Study: With a phone simply present (not in use), people smile less at strangers; removing the phone improves attention and performance.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Derek: “An aardvark can be here now. A hummingbird can be here now. I don’t aspire to the mere consciousness of a hummingbird...” (09:00)
• Laurie: “I can do that for hours and hours, and it gives me tremendous flow, or time is passing really quickly and I forget to go to the bathroom...” (12:53)
• Laurie: “What kind of allows us to experience a good life is much more complicated than you might think at first glance.” (23:09)
• Derek: “Drink the wine. …Eventually, you should still celebrate that moment. …Some of us procrastinate on pleasure.” (45:55)
• Laurie: “The data are really clear. Study after study just shows our predictions about social connection are wrong.” (56:41)
• Laurie: “If you look at pretty much any big technological development over the last couple of decades, it is one that eliminates the human.” (59:14)
• Laurie (on smartphones): “Your brain knows that on the other side of your smartphone is all that stuff and much, much, much more.” (63:32)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:00–11:55 — Derek’s opening monologue, “Happiness is a Time Machine”
• 11:55–14:30 — Laurie Santos on what makes her happy at work; creative “flow”
• 14:30–18:27 — Defining happiness: in your life vs. for your life
• 18:27–24:32 — Struggle, meaning, expectation
• 24:32–28:29 — Cognitive time travel and psychological distancing
• 29:55–35:06 — Nostalgia, “rosy retrospection”
• 35:06–38:54 — Expectations vs. reality formula questioned
• 38:54–41:53 — Resilience, the impact bias
• 41:53–47:38 — Myopia, hyperopia, procrastinating on pleasure, “Drink the wine”
• 47:38–51:11 — Time affluence and “time confetti”
• 51:11–57:27 — Social fitness, talking to strangers, introversion myths
• 59:05–63:01 — Technology and eroding human connection
• 63:01–65:03 — Smartphones, attention, and present-moment distraction

Language and Tone

• The conversation is personal, reflective, intellectually lively, and philosophical, balanced by clear references to psychological research and accessible analogies (“time machine,” “drink the wine,” “time confetti”).
• Both Derek and Laurie use self-deprecating humor and vivid examples to bring abstract ideas down to earth.

For Listeners Who Haven’t Heard the Episode

This episode is a rich, thought-provoking conversation that blends cutting-edge psychology and timeless wisdom. It reframes happiness as a skillful navigation of our mind’s travels through time—balancing learning from the past, planning for the future, savoring the present, and nurturing our relationships. It also urges us to question our predictions about ourselves, embrace challenge and imperfection, and not to let technology replace essential human connection. The practical tips (“drink the wine,” make a “time confetti wish list,” talk to strangers occasionally) are memorable, research-backed, and actionable.