Plain English BEST OF: The Antisocial Century

Podcast: Plain English with Derek Thompson (The Ringer)
Air Date: December 9, 2025

Overview of the Episode

In this "best of" compendium, Derek Thompson revisits one of his most impactful interviews from the past year, focusing on the theme of isolation in 21st-century America. Drawing from his Atlantic cover story “The Antisocial Century,” Thompson outlines the profound rise in American solitude and its ripple effects on the economy, culture, politics, and personal happiness. The episode features an in-depth conversation with University of Chicago psychologist Nicholas Epley, whose research explores why genuine social connection remains vital, even as people increasingly seek solitude.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Rising Tide of Solitude in America ([02:59])

• Americans are now more alone than at any point since at least the 1960s.
• "In the 21st century alone, we've reduced our face to face socializing time by 20% and added an additional 99 minutes of home time to the average day." – Derek Thompson (03:28)

Effects on Different Domains:

• Economy:
  The rapid shift from dining in restaurants to takeout and delivery reflects changing social behaviors. By 2023, 74% of all restaurant traffic was takeout or delivery. ([03:54])
• Culture:
  Younger men are increasingly living like “secular monks,” prioritizing self-optimization and solitude over marriage, fatherhood, or social gatherings. Social media amplifies and normalizes this solitary self-focus. ([05:26])
• Politics:
  "Our closest and our most distant connections [are] getting stronger, but we are losing the middle ring—the village,"—the acquaintances and neighbors—"which is so key to social cohesion." (10:41-12:00)
  The decline of casual, face-to-face interactions makes politics more polarized and less tolerant.

2. The ‘Antisocial Century’ and Its Paradoxes ([14:08])

• Interview with Nicholas Epley, University of Chicago:
  He studies the mechanisms of social connection and why we often choose isolation despite being social animals.

The Fundamental Paradox ([15:11])

• Humans are deeply social—connection is essential for happiness and health (15:11).
• Paradoxically, we often make choices that keep us isolated:
  "You look around and...instead you see a bunch of people totally choosing to keep to themselves." – Nicholas Epley (16:04)

3. Why We Misjudge Solitude vs. Social Connection ([17:04])

• Epley’s train and bus studies: People mistakenly predict solitude will make them happier than engaging strangers in conversation.
• Actual experiments:
  "We found that those people who we had asked to try to have a conversation with somebody reported a more positive commute than those we asked to keep to themselves." – Epley (21:45)

Misplaced Beliefs ([23:52])

• Most people expect that social interaction will be awkward or unwanted by others—“mistakenly seeking solitude.”
• Pluralistic ignorance: Each person thinks others don’t want to talk, so no one initiates (31:00).
  • "If everybody...is just a little more interested in talking to you than you are to me, what percentage of people are going to reach out and talk? Zero." – Epley (30:58)

4. Deep vs. Shallow Conversations: The Surprising Power of Depth ([32:48])

• Epley regularly runs exercises at the University of Chicago (MBAs, corporate events) having people engage in unexpectedly deep conversations.
  • Example questions: “If you had a crystal ball tell you anything about your future, what is it you’d want to know?” ([34:06])
  • Reaction: Initial anxiety ("Oh shit..." – anonymous finance executive, 34:09), followed by overwhelming surprise at positivity, meaning, and even tears.

Universality & Replication ([38:21])

• Effects are robust across age, background, context (corporate, city park, online).
  • "The more diverse the sample is, the more interesting and enjoyable the deep conversations would be." – Epley (39:40)

5. Life Lessons and Personal Transformation ([43:26])

• Epley and Thompson both reflect on how this research has deeply affected their own lives.
  • “There’s no research that I’ve ever read about or been involved in that’s changed the way I’ve lived my life more than this. It’s not even close.” – Epley (43:26)
  • Epley describes transforming routine interactions (saying hi, initiating train conversations) into habits that enrich daily life.

6. Digital vs. Face-to-Face Connection ([50:21])

• Not all communication media are equal.
  • "The big difference...is that the really important cue for connecting us to the mind of others...is the voice, physical touch notwithstanding." – Epley (51:45)
• Voice carries paralinguistic cues (emotion, presence), which text lacks; face-to-face adds even more (touch, duration, shared experiences).

7. Social Fitness: Building Better Habits ([63:23])

• Repeated small acts (“sweat the small stuff”): greetings, brief conversations, smiles.
  • "Character is not a trait. They're the things that you do habitually." – Epley (65:15)
• The more you practice, the more satisfying these become, occasionally resulting in profound moments.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the shift to solitude:
  "America's preference for solitude is changing the way companies think about reaching us as consumers." – Derek Thompson (05:14)

• On the hidden cost of digital socializing:
  "Text really is dead. It’s lifeless. It lacks the mental life that voice conveys." – Epley (57:44)

• On regrets and change:
  "Anxiety thrives in avoidance and dies in approach. When you reach out to somebody else, you find out what it's like." – Epley (61:00)

• On living well:
  "[T]he way we spend our minutes is the way we spend our decades." – Derek Thompson, quoting his own essay and Epley’s insight (48:45)

• On habit and happiness:
  "That’s like getting a bunch of high fives. Now, that's not making my whole day better, but it's making that moment better. And I turned that into a habit. So now I don't even have to think about it." – Epley (65:05)

Key Timestamps and Sections

| Timestamp | Segment / Topic | |:----------|:------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 02:59 | Introduction: Americans’ unprecedented alone time & social decline | | 03:54 | Economy: Restaurants shift to takeout/delivery, less dining together | | 05:26 | Culture: Rise of “secular monks” and self-optimized solitude | | 10:41 | Politics: Stronger inner and outer bonds, but loss of the middle “village”| | 14:08 | Interview with Nicholas Epley begins; social paradoxes explored | | 21:45 | Epley’s train study: socializing increases happiness | | 23:52 | “Mistakenly seeking solitude”—misplaced beliefs about socializing | | 32:48 | Deep conversations: transformative exercises and emotional outcomes | | 39:40 | Replication and universality of findings | | 43:26 | Personal transformation: From data to daily habit | | 50:21 | Digital vs. face-to-face connection; importance of voice | | 61:00 | Why social gaps persist: anxiety, avoidance, and missed opportunities | | 63:23 | Social fitness: How to build habits for well-being |

Conclusion

This episode weaves together sweeping sociological trends and intimate psychological insights to show how a society growing more isolated can reawaken the power of simple, genuine connection. Through experiments and lived experience, Nicholas Epley demonstrates that most people consistently underestimate how much joy and meaning await just one conversation, greeting, or smile away. For those feeling the weight of the "antisocial century," the episode offers a hopeful, actionable message: Happiness is built in minutes—and each interaction, no matter how small, matters.

Closing advice from Nicholas Epley ([63:23]):
“Start by sweating the small stuff… Finding those places where you can do something routinely, easily, in a way that makes it a habit. That's, I think, the place to start. And you can sweat the small stuff there. They might seem little, like a conversation on a train. What is that? That's a nice moment. Yeah, well, do that the next day, do that the day after that… And that's what a better life is.”