Plain English with Derek Thompson

Episode: The Problem With Sports Gambling

Date: October 31, 2025
Guests: Jonathan Cohen, author of Losing: America’s Reckless Bet on Sports Gambling

Episode Overview

This episode explores the pervasive rise of legal sports gambling in America, examining its social, economic, and ethical consequences. Host Derek Thompson is joined by Jonathan Cohen, whose research and reporting dissect both the macro and micro harms of widespread sports betting—from financial distress to the integrity of professional sports. The episode weaves together the personal stories of affected individuals, the economics driving leagues and states, and policy ideas for reform.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Recent Scandals and the State of Legalized Sports Betting

• The episode opens with news about an FBI bust involving NBA players and coaches implicated in betting-driven game-rigging and leaking insider information.
  • Derek: “The results are often deeply disturbing.” (02:41)
• NBA Commissioner Adam Silver’s contrasting stance from 2014, when he advocated for legalization, and now, when he expresses concern over corruption, sets up a main tension.
• Legalization was meant to bring transparency and regulation but has inadvertently fueled a new set of problems.

2. Who Is Most at Risk? What’s the True Problem?

• Primary Harm: Young men are the demographic most suffering, with time, money, mental health, and even lives lost to gambling addiction and reckless betting.
  • Jonathan: “The scandal … is what’s happening to young people, more particularly to young men, and the ways that they are losing time, money, mental health … because of how much they are gambling.” (10:28)
• Not just about “addiction”; even casual bettors can slide into problematic loss and debt.

3. Statistics That Signal Crisis

• Half of American men ages 18–49 have a sports betting account (11:06)
• In New Jersey, nearly 1 in 5 men age 18–24 is at-risk for problem gambling (11:37)
• 82% of NFL gambling revenue comes from just 3% of bettors, indicating many are chasing losses (11:54)
• Legalization correlates with higher rates of bankruptcies and auto loan delinquencies (12:29)

4. Personalizing the Crisis: Kyle’s Story

• “Kyle,” a Denver resident, goes from recreational betting to losing control—staying up for 40-hour marathons on minor league darts, losing jobs, moving back with parents, and feeling years of his life erased. His story is one of many—quitting came only after immense personal cost.
  • Jonathan (on Kyle): “He feels like he has this sort of black hole in his life for like three years or five years, I guess, got basically erased by gambling.” (15:46)

5. The Fun and Entertainment Value of Gambling (and Its Duality)

• Both Derek and Jonathan acknowledge the fun and social merits of gambling (“It is more fun to watch certain sports when you have a bit of money riding on the outcome.” – Derek, 17:57), admitting that most fans have a positive, casual relationship with sports betting.
• Central dilemma: Balancing the undeniable entertainment value for many with the severe consequences for a significant minority.

6. How Did We Get Here? The History and Industry Transformation

• Pre-2018: Leagues and casino interests opposed expansion, seeing gambling as a threat.
• 2014 turning point: Adam Silver’s New York Times op-ed advocates for legalization; major leagues pivot to embrace gambling as daily fantasy sports surge and cord-cutting threatens traditional TV revenues.
• 2018 Supreme Court ruling: States gain the power to legalize betting, unleashing a rapid, tech-driven expansion of mobile gambling.
  • Jonathan: “What we got … is this technologically supercharged version of sports betting that we now have, which is you can … bet on the next serve in a tennis match … all from your phone, all frictionlessly.” (29:50)
• DraftKings, FanDuel, and sportsbook lobbyists have had enormous influence on regulatory frameworks, often drafting or heavily shaping state legislation (31:01).

7. Sports Leagues Profiting from Gambling

• Three main ways:
  • New ad categories (gambling companies spend at NFL-team-revenue levels).
  • Increased viewership (gamblers watch more sports, even when games are otherwise meaningless).
  • Data sales and licensing fees for official league data.
  • Jonathan: “It’s the equivalent to the revenue from two or three extra teams in the NFL.” (32:22)

8. Societal Effects and Casino-ification of Culture

• Gambling has become mainstream, deeply woven into the sports/media experience (“Sports is infused with, drenched with, you could say, the ethos of gambling.” – Derek, 34:52)
• Broader context: Ties to crypto, meme stocks, and risk-driven finance—the “casino mindset” dominates not just sports but the wider economy and youth culture.
  • Jonathan: “…literal casino capitalism and like every app and every part of capitalism … would just become a not metaphorical, literal casino.” (38:33)

Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

• Derek on the duality of gambling’s appeal and danger:

  “There are millions of people who are just like me … who have a relationship with a casual, fun, entertaining American pastime that is not ruining their life and is more or less just infusing it with joy. How do you … keep these two truths side by side?” (17:55)

• Jonathan on policy failures:

  “Sports gambling should be legal. … But we could have rolled it out in a way that is safer. The word I use in the title of the book is reckless … it didn’t have to be this way.” (20:06)

• Derek, on the change in entertainment and consequential risks:

  “We have just gotten so much better at making entertainment more entertaining … Sports gambling is just really damn fun.” (41:11)

Solutions and Policy Reform: Rethinking Regulation

Shift from Revenue Maximization to Public Health!

• The primary regulatory philosophy must move from maximizing tax revenues to maximizing public safety and harm prevention.
  • Jonathan: “What I would want to see is a regulatory environment that is not set up to maximize revenue from sports betting… I would rewrite [the mandate] to say … ensure the safety of Marylanders …” (43:20)

“Speed Bumps” and Friction in Betting Apps (46:18)

• Ban or restrict ultra-rapid-fire, micro-betting markets (e.g., next serve in tennis, obscure minor league sports) that encourage compulsive engagement.
• Deposit and withdrawal controls: E.g., cooling-off periods before funds can be used or withdrawn, limits on how frequently or how much can be deposited daily/weekly.
• Restrict player props, especially on fringe players and college athletes, to minimize risks of insider fixing and disproportionate financial temptation.
  • Jonathan, on props and minors: “Doing something about player props, doing something about micro bets … that seems pretty easy when it comes to reform.” (49:03)
• Consider “only allow props on star players,” as Bill Simmons suggested, because outcomes are less easy to fix and financial incentives are less likely to corrupt high-earning athletes.

Integrity of the Game – Can It Be Protected?

• Player props and micro bets dramatically increase risks for insider scandals; much harder to police.
• Realistically, some level of cheating is “unpoliceable,” especially in large, decentralized betting environments.
• Final lines of defense may rely on law enforcement/FBI stings as deterrent rather than airtight prevention.

Concluding Thoughts

The episode closes with recognition that while gambling is a source of entertainment and revenue, its dark side—addiction, debt, and the erosion of sports integrity—cannot be ignored. The “reckless” way sportsbooks and states have prioritized profits over public health is the true scandal. Derek and Jonathan advocate for a recalibrated regulatory approach, harmonizing legitimate fun with meaningful safeguards.

Key Timestamps

• [06:47] — Why legal and illegal betting scandals are inseparable in the modern era
• [12:29] — Correlational evidence on state-level harms from legalization
• [14:02] — Kyle's story: A personal tale of rapid descent and recovery
• [20:06] — “It didn’t have to be this way”: Regulatory recklessness
• [27:40] — 2018 Supreme Court ruling: The floodgates open
• [32:22] — How sports leagues profit: Ads, viewership, data
• [41:11] — The entertainment arms race and its dangers
• [43:20] — The case for a new regulatory paradigm
• [46:18] — Proposals: App friction and ban on exotic, rapid-fire prop bets
• [49:03] — Integrity concerns: Why it’s tough to fully protect the game

Memorable Closing

• Derek: “You put so much time and energy into understanding how we got to here, how history could have unfolded in a way that was better, and how we can still make gambling safer and more moral. John Cohen, thank you very much.” (52:39)

For listeners seeking a balanced, informed, and deeply human account of America’s sports gambling boom—along with actionable reform ideas—this episode delivers lucid answers and a nuanced call for change.