Podcast Summary: "Will AI Usher In the End of Deep Thinking?"
Podcast Information:
- Title: Plain English with Derek Thompson
- Host/Author: The Ringer (Derek Thompson)
- Episode: Will AI Usher In the End of Deep Thinking?
- Release Date: August 6, 2025
1. Introduction
In this engaging episode of Plain English with Derek Thompson, host Derek Thompson delves into the profound implications of Artificial Intelligence (AI) on deep thinking and cognitive abilities. Joined by Cal Newport, a renowned author and computer science professor at Georgetown University, the discussion explores how AI is reshaping not just the economy but also our social interactions, educational practices, and cognitive skills.
2. AI's Economic Impact
Derek opens the conversation by highlighting a pivotal statistic from the Bureau of Economic Analysis: "Spending on artificial intelligence added more to the US Economy last quarter than consumer spending" ([05:00]). This revelation underscores AI's significant role in current economic growth, emphasizing that "AI is driving this economy right now. Today. This is already becoming an AI economy" ([05:10]).
Key Points:
- AI spending surpasses consumer spending in contributing to GDP.
- AI's dominance in sectors like advanced ships, data centers, and energy.
- Stock market gains largely fueled by AI-related companies such as Microsoft, Amazon, and Meta.
3. AI as a Social Technology
Cal Newport expands the discussion beyond economic metrics, illustrating AI's impact on social interactions and cognitive behaviors. He introduces the concept of "parasocial relationships" between users and AI, where AI models become akin to friends, professors, or research assistants ([07:06]).
Notable Quote:
- Cal Newport: "It's an interactive back and forth partner... It's expanding its footprint in students' lives more than I thought it would." ([08:00])
4. AI's Impact on Education and Deep Thinking
a. Changes in Student Behavior
Cal shares insights from his research, noting a decline in deep reading and writing among students due to AI tools like ChatGPT. Initially, students used AI not to outsource work but to "reduce the peak cognitive strain of writing" ([07:06]). However, this assistance has evolved into more pervasive use, integrating AI into various aspects of student life ([08:00]).
b. Academic Integrity and AI
The episode references a New York Magazine cover story revealing rampant AI-assisted cheating in colleges. "Practically every student in college... is using ChatGPT to write all of their essays," underscoring the erosion of traditional writing skills ([08:50]).
c. Alterations in Teaching and Assessments
Derek proposes a transformation in educational assessments, suggesting a shift towards "oral defenses" similar to PhD dissertation defenses to preserve deep thinking skills ([14:00]).
Cal's Response:
- Draws parallels to the Oxford tutorial model, where assessments are interactive and participatory.
- Emphasizes the challenge of maintaining rigorous assessments in the age of AI ([15:18]).
Notable Quote:
- Cal Newport: "Problem sets can give you hard problems, so they serve a purpose... But there's a big shift we have to deal with." ([13:48])
5. Cognitive Skills and "Time Under Tension"
Derek introduces the metaphor of "time under tension" from weightlifting to describe the importance of sustained cognitive effort. He argues that deep reading and writing are essential for developing complex, interconnected thoughts. Without these practices, the capacity for "combinatorially new" ideas diminishes ([18:15]).
Key Points:
- Deep reading and writing foster cognitive resilience and creativity.
- AI tools may impede the development of sustained intellectual effort.
- The analogy of cognitive fitness being as crucial as physical fitness.
Notable Quote:
- Derek Thompson: "I would want my children to be masters of cognitive time under tension, a kind of academic patience that I think will pay dividends." ([20:00])
6. Relevant Studies
a. MIT Media Lab's "Your Brain on ChatGPT"
This study assigned participants to write essays using different methods, including ChatGPT. Findings indicated that "ChatGPT users had the lowest brain engagement" and became increasingly reliant on AI, resorting to "copy-pasting essays with no possibility of recollecting what they had posted" ([29:25]).
Cal's Insights:
- Criticizes the study's setup, noting that low-stakes environments may skew results towards reduced effort.
- Despite critiques, acknowledges that "directionally this is true" based on his observations ([30:46]).
b. METR's AI Coding Assistant Study
This study found that developers perceived AI coding assistants to save time (20% time saved) but the actual result was an increase in task completion time by 20% ([32:38]).
Cal's Insights:
- Highlights the complexity of measuring true productivity.
- Differentiates between "vibe coding" (quick, prototype-centric coding) and serious software development where AI aids by streamlining routine tasks ([36:10]).
Notable Quote:
- Cal Newport: "AI is taking a lot of the hardness out of that... it's integration, searching for stuff you need to keep writing your code." ([37:56])
7. The Importance of Good Questioning
Derek posits that while AI excels at providing answers, it falters in guiding users to ask the right questions—an essential aspect of true productivity and creative thinking.
Key Points:
- AI's Limitation: Inability to critically evaluate or redirect the user's line of inquiry.
- Human Edge: Mastery in formulating meaningful, impactful questions remains irreplaceable.
Notable Quote:
- Derek Thompson: "AI is really, really good at answering questions, but it's bad at telling you that you're asking the wrong questions." ([37:56])
8. Personal Uses and Recommendations
Cal Newport's Approach to AI:
- Utilizes AI sparingly, primarily as an enhanced search tool and for technical queries in projects.
- Expresses caution regarding AI's reliability, recounting an incident where ChatGPT provided an inaccurate quote ([52:30]).
- Values traditional research methods for their role in fostering deep cognitive engagement ([52:30]).
Recommended Practices:
- Selective Use: Employ AI for specific, fact-based tasks rather than creative or analytical endeavors.
- Preserving Cognitive Skills: Continue practicing deep reading and writing without over-reliance on AI.
- Educational Reforms: Incorporate more interactive and oral assessments to maintain critical thinking skills.
Notable Quote:
- Cal Newport: "Reading builds these smarter circuits and production of content is what helps you actually use the circuits and get good at actually applying them." ([27:20])
9. Conclusion
The episode concludes with a consensus between Derek Thompson and Cal Newport on the dual nature of AI. While AI offers remarkable efficiencies and capabilities, it poses significant challenges to deep cognitive practices essential for sustained intellectual growth and creativity. The discussion underscores the urgency of re-evaluating educational systems and personal habits to preserve the vital skills of deep thinking and problem-solving in the AI era.
Final Quote:
- Cal Newport: "We have to work on our brains to have this sort of arbitrary, constructed, culturally constructed type of brain that we need to thrive in today's world, and that we should be super wary when stuff takes that proverbial serum away." ([40:00])
Takeaways:
- AI is currently a dominant economic force, significantly influencing GDP and stock markets.
- Beyond economics, AI alters social interactions and cognitive behaviors, particularly among students.
- The ease of AI-assisted writing and problem-solving threatens deep cognitive skills like sustained reading and original writing.
- Educational institutions must adapt by incorporating more interactive and oral assessments to foster deep thinking.
- Personal and societal efforts are needed to balance AI's advantages with the preservation of essential cognitive abilities.
**For further insights, listen to the full episode of "Plain English with Derek Thompson" on Spotify or visit their TikTok at @plainenglish_.