Planet Money – "A New Experiment in Remote Work … from the Inside"

Episode Date: November 7, 2025
Host: Sarah Gonzalez (NPR)
Guest Contributor: Susan Sharon (Maine Public Radio)

Episode Overview

This episode explores a groundbreaking experiment taking place inside Maine's prisons: allowing incarcerated people to hold fully remote jobs for outside companies, earning market-rate wages—from within prison walls. The podcast traces the origin of the program, profiles two incarcerated remote workers, discusses the practicalities and ethics from multiple perspectives, and considers the broader implications for labor, prison reform, and economics.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Introduction to the Remote Work Pilot

• Sarah Gonzalez introduces the story, centering on Darlene George, who coordinates grants at a Maine health center—all while working remotely from her prison room, not a typical prison role.
  • “Darlene is a grants program coordinator at a local health center in Maine.” (00:39)
  • Darlene is serving a 40-year sentence for murder, but works a normal salaried, full-time job—her colleagues know about her incarceration.
• On her work ethic:
  • “If I have a project and it entails me working on a Saturday or Sunday, guess what? I’m doing it. That’s my job.” – Darlene George (01:04)

2. Expanding Opportunities Beyond Prison Labor

• The hosts emphasize this isn’t the traditional, extremely low-paid prison labor.
  • “Darlene doesn’t work for free like prisoners do in seven states… She’s not paid minimum wage.” (03:23)
  • Darlene and colleagues keep pay private to avoid tension inside, but the pay is enough to be significant.
• Another remote worker, Preston Thorpe, shares:
  • “It’s definitely like what you’d expect to see for a senior level software engineer in the US... Yeah, I make six figures.” – Preston Thorpe (04:22–04:39)

3. How the Program Started – The Pandemic Pivot

• Susan Sharon explains the pandemic forced educational programs for incarcerated people online. That sparked the idea: if prisoners can take classes remotely, why not do real work remotely too?
  • “The remote work is an outgrowth of prison education.” – Susan Sharon (06:33)
• Since inception, only about 45 people have landed such jobs, due to high barriers.

4. Case Study: Preston Thorpe, Software Engineer

• Preston’s journey:
  • Incarcerated for 20+ years (for distributing a powerful opioid), he excelled at coding and made notable open source contributions from prison.
  • Caught the eye of Glauber Costa, CEO of Turso, after Preston became a top contributor to a major open-source database project.
    • “When I read his profile, I couldn’t believe it was real.” – Glauber Costa (09:56)
  • Despite initial doubts about hiring from prison, Turso navigated compliance and background checks (which, ironically, came back cleaner than Glauber's due to length of incarceration).
    • "Preston is actually our cleanest background check." – Glauber Costa (11:42)
  • Preston was hired at market rates and is a fully integrated (remote) team member.

5. Employer Perspectives and Public Perception

• Costa faced criticism for hiring a prisoner:
  • “We were accused…of just exploiting prison labor. Look, Preston is paid market rates.” – Glauber Costa (12:22)
• On Preston’s extraordinary output:
  • “He has a lot of free time…and this will to do better.” – Glauber Costa (12:32)

6. What Do Incarcerated Workers Do with Their Earnings?

• Preston even bought a house from prison—across from his parents—hoping to live there when released.
  • “It’s a manufactured home…but yeah, it’s across the street from my parents.” – Preston Thorpe (13:16)

7. Prison System Perspective – Commissioner Randall Liberty

• Commissioner Liberty (whose father was formerly incarcerated and whom he once guarded) explained the economics and policy decisions behind the program.
  • Liberty allows remote work regardless of crime severity, focusing on good behavior and education.
  • Personal story:
    • “Not only…was he incarcerated, but I guarded him…as an officer, I was in the same unit.” – Randall Liberty (16:31)
• Earnings Management:
  • Inmates’ earnings are managed by the Department of Corrections, which disburses payments upon request (e.g., for family tuition, church tithing, car repairs for relatives).
  • Inside, their money can buy better “snacks, better food…, game station, TV, all the best snacks.” – Sarah Gonzalez (18:49)

8. Fee Structure and Economic Impact

• Wages are subject to prioritized deductions:

  • 25% to victim restitution
  • 25% to court fees/fines
  • Taxes and child support as applicable
  • 10% for room and board (to the prison)
  • 10% to a mandatory savings account
  • Remaining money for personal use (19:50–20:59)

• Last year, remote workers in Maine’s prisons earned ~$400,000 (gross); full-timers made $40K–$90K+ (21:18).

• Some even access benefits: health, retirement, paid time off.

• On criticisms that this could fuel state incentives for mass incarceration:

  • “Not on my watch." – Randall Liberty (24:11)
  • Compared with Alabama, which seizes 40% of prison labor earnings ($450 million annually), creating perverse incentives to keep people incarcerated and working.

9. Potential for Expansion and Future Concerns

• Liberty acknowledges the danger of fee hikes under future leadership:
  • "That's the challenge. I have 14 months…” – Randall Liberty, on the uncertainty post-tenure (25:53)
  • The program still serves a fraction of Maine’s incarcerated population (27 people currently), usually those with special skills or degrees.

Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

• “We don’t call them cells. We just call them our rooms.” – Darlene George (01:45)
• “Now I feel like my life has a purpose…” – Preston Thorpe (07:45)
• “He doesn’t have a parking ticket. He does not.” – Glauber Costa, on Preston’s background check (11:42)
• “I have individuals that are receiving health care for their families while they're incarcerated.” – Randall Liberty (21:18)
• “If you’re a fiscal conservative, do you have any opposition to Preston or anyone else, you know... paying for their families, feeding their children, paying their mortgages, or would you rather have them be on the state?” – Randall Liberty (21:34)
• “We know that the people in our career are there for mental health issues, for substance use disorder, poverty, neglect, trauma, learning disabilities. …those are not the people who should balance [the budget] on their backs.” – Randall Liberty (24:11)
• “When we have 65% of individuals returning to custody, we need to do better. In Maine, we currently have a 21% return to custody rate. This works.” – Randall Liberty (26:03)

Key Timestamps

• 00:12 – Darlene George introduces herself and her unusual employment status
• 01:45 – Darlene describes her remote work setup from prison ("our rooms")
• 02:00 – Darlene reveals her sentence and new work arrangement
• 04:22–04:41 – Preston Thorpe confirms he makes a senior software engineer's salary (six figures)
• 06:33 – The origins of remote work in prisons (pandemic education shift)
• 09:44 – Glauber Costa (CEO) discovers Preston is in prison
• 11:42 – Preston’s background check and hiring at Turso
• 13:16 – Preston buys a home while incarcerated
• 14:27 – Commissioner Randall Liberty details the policy’s development
• 16:31 – Liberty recounts guarding his own father in prison
• 19:50–20:59 – Breakdown of income deductions and disbursements
• 21:18 – Discussion of full benefits for incarcerated workers
• 24:11 – Addressing concerns about perverse incentives and raising fees
• 25:53 – Liberty on future risks post-tenure
• 26:03 – Discussion of recidivism rates in Maine vs. national average

Tone and Takeaway

Maintaining Planet Money’s approachable, curious, and nuanced style, the episode sheds light on the real economic and human complexities of “fair wage” remote work for people in prison. It challenges assumptions about prison labor, explores policy decisions with empathy and self-awareness, and surfaces potential pitfalls as the program grows elsewhere.

Final thought:
This experiment provides new dignity, skills, and resources to a small group of incarcerated people—while spotlighting how economic incentives can reshape prisons for good or ill, depending on public oversight, policy design, and political will.