Planet Money — "A Trip to the Magic Mushroom Megachurch"

NPR · January 24, 2026 · Host: Alexi Horowitz-Ghazi

Overview

This episode explores the rise and operation of Zydor Church, the largest psychedelic "mushroom church" in the world. Host Alexi Horowitz-Ghazi travels to Oakland, CA, to understand how Zydor operates in the legal gray area surrounding psilocybin and other psychedelics, and how its founder, Dave Hodges, frames the church's mission as religious rather than commercial. The episode also delves into the legal strategies behind such churches, the challenge of distinguishing faith from commerce, and the implications for drug policy, religious liberty, and the broader psychedelic movement.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Inside the Zydor Church

• Location and Atmosphere

  • The church is discreetly located in a nondescript Oakland warehouse, with tight security (01:21).
  • Instead of pews and stained-glass, the interior features psychedelic-themed murals: whales, apes, and especially mushrooms (02:13).

• Founding and Beliefs

  • Zydor is not associated with Christianity, Judaism, or other major religions; it’s grounded in the belief that psilocybin mushrooms offer direct access to the divine (02:36).
  • Pastor Dave Hodges describes Zydor as “the largest mushroom church in the world” (02:49).

• Joining and Accessing the Sacrament

  • Membership requires a self-declared belief in the doctrine, a form verifying you’re not law enforcement, a $10 initiation fee, and $5/month dues (03:31, 25:08).
  • Members receive a card allowing them to make donations in exchange for "sacrament"—not sold, but offered after donation (03:58). Sacrament includes mushrooms (multiple cultivars), cannabis, DMT, and edibles in a “psychedelic Willy Wonka situation” (05:16).

2. Legal Tightrope: Religion, Drugs, and the Law

• Introducing John Rapp, Psychedelic Church Lawyer

  • Former corporate attorney, now defends and advises psychedelic churches, often pro bono (08:12, 12:00).
  • Rapp’s journey was personal: transformed after the loss of his son and experiences with psychedelics (09:53).

• Foundations of Legal Protection

  • Religious exemptions for banned substances date back to the Native American Church and its peyote use.
  • Landmark: A 2006 Supreme Court case where a Brazilian Ayahuasca church won protection under the Religious Freedom Restoration Act, setting standards for what counts as a "sincere religion" (12:18, 13:28).

• Risks and the “Myers Test”

  • No full legal protection exists unless the DEA grants a specific exemption (14:33).
  • The Myers Test: federal case law outlining criteria for a legitimate religion, including structure, doctrine, texts, rituals, leaders, and holidays (16:32).
    • Rapp helps clients write “Bibles,” standardize texts, ceremonies, and even create religious holidays (17:12–18:04).

• Real Dangers and Economic Outliers

  • Applying for exemptions can be risky—a denied application provides the DEA with evidence for prosecution (15:29).
  • Most psychedelic churches are small and struggling—except Zydor, which handles an estimated 70–80% of all U.S. psychedelic church revenue (19:33).

3. Zydor’s Economic Model—and Its Controversy

• Origins, Growth, and the 2020 Police Raid

  • Hodges initially ran cannabis organizations before a transformative mushroom experience led him to found Zydor (23:04).
  • A 2020 police raid on the church actually boosted its profile, causing membership to skyrocket (24:01, 25:01).

• Scale and Finances

  • Zydor now boasts over 135,000 members and processes thousands monthly, leading to "several million dollars" in annual revenue (26:02).
  • Critics see the church as a potential money-making front, but Hodges insists the risks, running costs (security, staff, quality control), and inability to use traditional banking undermine the narrative of profit over faith (26:28, 27:07).

• Balance of Commerce and Faith

  • Minimal barriers for joining cause some discomfort, even among other psychedelic churches worried about the appearance of commercialism or recreational use (29:59).

4. Philosophical and Social Implications

• Faith vs. Recreation

  • Hodges posits that all mushroom use is spiritual, and even skeptics might find themselves "converted" by the experience:
    • “Anything they're doing to get closer to the soul is a religious experience from my perspective. And whether or not they understand that that's what they're doing... eventually they will understand.” (29:59 – Dave Hodges)

• Community and Harm Reduction

  • Some critics fear lax standards fuel legal backlash or confusion; others, like John Rapp, see Zydor as both a church and a harm-reduction model.
    • “In the overall world, handing somebody, you know, the high dose of mushrooms versus cocaine or whatever, that, to me, seems like an easy choice... an elaborate and successful exercise in harm reduction.” (31:16 – John Rapp)

• Legal Uncertainty and Ongoing Change

  • Legal status of psychedelics is rapidly evolving, with local decriminalization in some cities and incremental progress at the federal level (28:18).
  • With hundreds of small psychedelic churches navigating semi-legal territory, Zydor serves as both standard-bearer and flashpoint for controversy and regulatory attention (19:59, 32:41).

Memorable Quotes & Moments (with Timestamps)

• “It feels more like a galactic bowling alley than a sanctuary.”
  —Alexi Horowitz-Ghazi (02:13)

• “There's even a special piece of paper ... that says if you're a cop or working with the cops, we're going to sue you for $100,000.”
  —Dave Hodges (03:40)

• “Generally, I say I run the largest mushroom church in the world.”
  —Dave Hodges (02:49)

• “John says what he experienced there was deeply moving... It changed my life almost entirely for the better. Hmm. Ah, fuck.”
  —Alexi Horowitz-Ghazi and John Rapp (10:39)

• “If an exception for use of a controlled substance is permitted for hundreds of thousands of Native Americans, we do not see why there can be no consideration of a similar exception...”
  —Chief Justice John Roberts (quoted by Alexi Horowitz-Ghazi, 13:28)

• “I literally help people write Bibles.”
  —John Rapp (16:47)

• “My favorite one is April 19th is Bicycle Day, the day we celebrate the discovery of LSD.”
  —John Rapp (18:11)

• On Zydor's revenue:
  “If I had to guess, I would guess that 70 or 80% of all the revenue in the United States for psychedelics goes to Zidor.”
  —John Rapp (19:33)

• “If you wanted to make a lot of money, you'd do a business where you didn't have to worry about the cops coming in and knocking down the door.”
  —Dave Hodges (26:28)

• “I may believe in your sincere religiosity around this, but the church is so large that how can you be sure that any of these 130,000 plus members are doing this as an act of faith...?”
  —Alexi Horowitz-Ghazi (29:59)

• “Whether they know it or not, they are having a religious experience.”
  —Dave Hodges (29:59)

• “There are people that think that we're just making tons of money and that this ... is just a way to get wealthy, and then there's the ones whose lives we've changed ... people that have got past trauma that 10 years of therapy couldn't touch.”
  —Dave Hodges (32:41)

• Closing image:
  “Dave did what all good evangelists do. He handed me a copy of the church's Bible. On the cover there’s a gorilla sitting in space, stroking his chin and holding a psychedelic mushroom. Dave says the Bible still isn’t quite finished yet ... it really is a living document.”
  —Alexi Horowitz-Ghazi (33:12)

Timestamps for Important Segments

• 00:17 — Host sets up the episode and travels to Oakland to visit Zydor Church.
• 02:36 — Introduction to Zydor’s beliefs and structure.
• 03:31 — Joining process and legal quirks.
• 07:59 — Introduction to John Rapp, the psychedelic church lawyer.
• 13:28 — The 2006 Supreme Court decision shaping the legal landscape.
• 16:26 — The Myers Test: What legally qualifies as a religion.
• 19:33 — Zydor as economic outlier in psychedelic churches.
• 23:04 — Dave Hodges' personal religious vision.
• 24:01–25:06 — 2020 police raid and its impact.
• 26:28 — Finances, risk, and Hodges' defense of his motives.
• 29:59 — Tension between faith, commercialism, and recreational use.
• 31:16 — John Rapp on Zydor as harm reduction.
• 32:41 — Dave Hodges on critics and the changed lives of parishioners.
• 33:12 — Closing: The evolving church Bible as living document.

Takeaways

• Zydor Church represents the cutting edge—and controversy—of the intersection of religious freedom and America’s changing approach to psychedelics.
• Its legal status is precarious and emblematic of the wider movement, hinging on the sincerity of faith, the ambiguity of federal policy, and economic realities.
• As the largest and most visible psychedelic church, Zydor’s model—open membership, large scale, and broad access—serves both as opportunity and risk for the mushroom church movement as a whole.
• The debate over Zydor’s legitimacy, efficacy, and impact on drug policy and religious liberty reflects deeper questions about the evolving boundaries of faith, law, and the modern economy.

Episode reported by Alexi Horowitz-Ghazi. Produced by Sam Yellow Horse Kessler. Edited by Eric Mennel. Fact-Checked by Sierra Juarez. Engineered by Kwesi Lee, with help from Robert Rodriguez.