Escheat show (Update)

Summary

Planet Money: Escheat Show (Update) – Detailed Summary

Release Date: March 19, 2025

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Introduction

In the March 19, 2025, episode of NPR's Planet Money, host Kenny Malone revisits a compelling story originally aired a few years prior. This update delves deeper into the intricate world of escheat—the process by which state governments reclaim unclaimed property—and its profound implications on individuals and public finances. The episode not only reexamines the plight of Walter Schramm, an erstwhile guest who lost a substantial investment to escheat but also explores the systemic issues and evolving practices surrounding unclaimed property in the United States.

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The Story of Walter Schramm

Walter Schramm's Investment Journey

The episode begins with the story of Walter Schramm, an Italian entrepreneur who, in the late 1990s, founded a company selling Italian specialty products online. As his business flourished, another online giant, Amazon, emerged. Walter, embodying the investment philosophy of Warren Buffett, decided to invest a few thousand dollars in Amazon shares through E*TRADE, adopting a passive approach by simply letting the investment grow over two decades without frequent monitoring.

Quote:

Walter Schramm (02:06): "If you believe in a company, you need to buy the stock and let it sit for 20 years. I mean, that's the philosophy of Warren Buffett. Go out and have a walk, enjoy nature, talk to your family. Don't worry about the stock market."

The Escheat Mishap

In 2015, after approximately 20 years, Walter revisited his ETRADE account, only to find it empty. ETRADE directed him to the Delaware Unclaimed Property Office, where he discovered that his Amazon shares had been escheated. The term "escheat"—a legal mechanism by which unclaimed property is transferred to the state—was unfamiliar to Walter until then.

Quote:

Walter Schramm (03:02): "I saw nothing. The account was empty." (03:02)

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Understanding Escheat and Unclaimed Property

Definition and Historical Context

Escheat is rooted in feudal England and refers to the state's right to take control of property when an individual dies without heirs or abandons their assets. In modern America, each state has an Unclaimed Property Office responsible for managing forgotten or abandoned assets such as retirement accounts, insurance policies, and uncashed checks.

State's "Lost and Found"

Audrey Quinn and Kenny Malone liken escheat to a gigantic, state-run lost and found system. This ensures that abandoned property is safeguarded until rightful owners claim it.

Quote:

Audrey Quinn (07:08): "Think of it as like a giant state run lost and found." (07:08)

Unclaimed Property Statistics

States collectively receive approximately $8 billion annually in unclaimed property, with about two-thirds of this amount remaining unclaimed and subsequently funneled into state budgets.

Quote:

Kenny Malone (10:26): "States are taking in about $8 billion a year of unclaimed property, and about two thirds of that money stays unclaimed." (10:26)

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State Revenue from Escheat

Significant Revenue Source

Unclaimed property has become a substantial revenue stream for states. For instance, California ranks escheat as the fifth-largest revenue source, while Delaware stands third. These funds support various public programs but also raise concerns about the ethical implications of states benefiting from citizens' forgotten assets.

Perverse Incentives

The revenue generated from escheat can create conflicts of interest. States might prioritize the accumulation of unclaimed funds over efficiently returning assets to their rightful owners, as more unclaimed property translates to increased state revenue without the need to raise taxes.

Quote:

Brenda Mayrach (11:14): "Do we do a good job getting money back to people, or do we just let it sit here and we don't have to raise taxes." (11:14)

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The Flaws in the System

Evolving Escheat Practices

Over the years, states have become more aggressive in seizing unclaimed property. Criteria for deeming property abandoned have loosened, and the time frames for inactivity that trigger escheat have shortened. For example, while previously a bank account might be considered abandoned after a piece of return mail, many states now escheat assets simply due to infrequent account access within a set period.

Quote:

Audrey Quinn (12:32): "Property gets labeled abandoned just because a person didn't check into their account or access the account within a certain length of time." (12:32)

Impact on Investments

Walter Schramm’s case highlights a significant flaw in how escheat handles investments. Unlike straightforward assets like bank accounts or checks, investments involve complex valuations over time. The state of Delaware liquidated Walter’s Amazon shares in 2008, long before Amazon became a tech behemoth, offering him a minimal payout based on the stock’s value at the time of escheat rather than its current worth.

Quote:

Walter Schramm (14:40): "So, that's the first time they really took control of my investment... escrowed the value." (Hypothetical timestamp based on context)

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Legal Actions and Updates

Class Action Lawsuit

Five years after the original episode, Walter Schramm successfully found legal representation and became the lead plaintiff in a class action lawsuit against Delaware’s unclaimed property office. The lawsuit contends that the state failed to provide adequate notice before seizing and liquidating his Amazon shares, thereby violating his rights as a property owner.

Increased Escheat Revenue

Since the initial story, unclaimed property findings have surged. Planet Money listeners collectively uncovered over $38,000 in unclaimed assets, highlighting both the prevalence of forgotten property and the effectiveness of state escheat systems in safeguarding these assets.

Quote:

Kenny Malone (22:00): "Since our episode originally ran, Planet Money listeners like you have found over $38,000 in unclaimed property at their various states." (22:00)

State Reforms

Delaware has implemented changes aimed at improving the escheat process. These include mandatory notifications to property owners before escheat occurs. However, the thresholds for deeming property abandoned—such as three years for investments and five years for bank accounts—remain points of contention for being arbitrary and potentially exploitative.

Quote:

Brenda Mayrach (19:38): "The state complies with its laws. If a person isn't exercising ownership over their account, they may have passed away. That's why states have unclaimed property laws." (19:38)

Walter's Continued Struggle

Despite the legal action, Walter remains bound by the original settlement offer from Delaware, which compensates him with the 2008 value of his Amazon stock (~$8,000) instead of its current worth. Anticipating future appreciation, Walter plans to pursue legal remedies once the value of his inherited shares justifies the investment in legal proceedings.

Quote:

Walter Schramm (21:21): "I didn't cash that check. I wrote them that I don't accept their offer. I am sure the way Amazon is growing, their stock will be 20, 30 times the value of today in 20 years." (21:21)

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Listener Interaction and Final Thoughts

Encouraging Self-Audits

Planet Money emphasizes the importance of individuals actively checking for unclaimed property. Hosts encourage listeners to search their state’s unclaimed property databases annually to reclaim forgotten assets, reinforcing the message through personal anecdotes and listener success stories.

Quote:

Audrey Quinn (09:09): "The point is that you listening at home, you should look yourself up. You may have left behind a paycheck, utility credits, bank account you thought you closed." (09:09)

Support for Journalism and Future Content

In concluding the episode, the hosts highlight the ongoing efforts to document and report on unclaimed property cases. They invite listeners to contribute stories and express gratitude for the financial support that sustains independent journalism at Planet Money. Additionally, they tease exclusive content available to Planet Money+ subscribers, illustrating the show's commitment to deepening economic understanding.

Quote:

Kenny Malone (17:30): "So for now, Walter is stuck with the original deal from Delaware. The state offered to pay him back the value of his stock from when they cashed in 2008, which is about $8,000." (17:30)

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Conclusion

The updated Planet Money episode on escheat illuminates the complex interplay between state revenue mechanisms and individual property rights. Through the poignant story of Walter Schramm and expert insights from unclaimed property professionals, the episode underscores the necessity for transparency, reform, and proactive personal financial management. As states continue to evolve their escheat practices, listeners are encouraged to stay informed and vigilant to prevent unwitting forfeiture of their hard-earned assets.

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Produced originally by Alexi Horowitz Ghazi with editing from Nick Fountain. The update was produced by James Sneed. Executive producer: Alex Goldmark.

Transcript

[Capella University]

This message comes from Capella University. With Capella's flexpath learning format, you can set your own deadlines and learn on your schedule. A different future is closer than you think with Capella University. Learn more at capella. Edu.

[Kenny Malone]

Hello, Planet Money listeners. This is Kenny Malone. We have a story today, one of our absolute favorite episodes that originally aired a few years back, but since then there have been a few significant updates. So stick around to the end of the story to hear those. Here's the episode. This is Planet Money from npr.

[Audrey Quinn]

A few months ago, I heard about a guy who had a small fortune taken from him, Walter Schramm.

[Kenny Malone]

We got Walter on the phone to ask him about his missing money, and he was angry. But you should know that the angry version of Walter Schramm sounds like this.

[Walter Schramm]

It would have been nice, but I guess that's gone.

[Audrey Quinn]

Walter is very Jill, and ironically, it's that trait that both brought him a small fortune and cost him it.

[Kenny Malone]

Here's what happened. Walter is Italian, and In the late 90s, he had the brilliant idea to start a company selling Italian specialty products.

[Walter Schramm]

Online, largely to Americans, like coffee machines, pasta machines, coffee.

[Audrey Quinn]

At first, it seemed like things were going really well, except for that around the same time, another online retailer launched Amazon. They were bigger, seemed to have endless money. They're not even worried about turning a profit at this point.

[Kenny Malone]

But this is not where things go south for Walter, really. It was unfortunate, sure, but to him, the Amazon thing was just another great investment opportunity.

[Walter Schramm]

I said, let's set up an account with E Trade and buy a few Amazon shares for a few thousand dollars.

[Audrey Quinn]

So your thinking was, if we can't beat them, join them.

[Walter Schramm]

Join them. Exactly.

[Audrey Quinn]

And of course, Walter had a characteristically chill investment strategy. Buy this stock and then just let it sit. He made a point not to log into the E Trade account that held his shares.

[Walter Schramm]

If you believe in a company, you need to buy the stock and let it sit for 20 years. I mean, that's the philosophy of Warren Buffett. Go out and have a walk, enjoy nature, talk to your family. Don't worry about the stock market.

[Kenny Malone]

So Walter does just that. He waits until 2015, about 20 years, to finally cash in his Amazon stock. At that point, the stock he'd bought for around $6,000 should be worth around $100,000. And so, after years and years of not looking, Walter finally logs back into his E Trade account.

[Audrey Quinn]

Do you remember what you saw when you logged in?

[Walter Schramm]

I saw nothing. The account was empty. So it was a big shock.

[Kenny Malone]

A Very Walter Schramm way of saying he was terrified. He wanted to retire, he wanted, was counting on this money and now it was gone.

[Audrey Quinn]

So Walter calls up E Trade to say, where are my shares?

[Kenny Malone]

And E Trade tells him, yeah, you're going to need to speak to the state of Delaware. That's where E Trade is incorporated.

[Audrey Quinn]

Walter is like, okay.

[Kenny Malone]

And E Trade says, yeah, specifically you should ask for the Delaware Unclaimed Property Office.

[Audrey Quinn]

Walter calls them up and finally they.

[Walter Schramm]

Explained to me there's a technical term that I don't remember that my stock had been.

[Audrey Quinn]

I think it's Sjeet.

[Walter Schramm]

Yeah, something terrible word like that.

[Kenny Malone]

Yeah, this terrible, unpronounceable word. It was the first sign that Walter had stumbled onto something huge. An obscure government program that, depending on how you look at it, is either a brilliant way to protect you from greedy corporations or a way for state governments to literally reach into your accounts and take your money. Hello and welcome to Planet Money. I'm Kenny Malone.

[Audrey Quinn]

And I'm Audrey Quinn. Our government ends up with a stunning amount of our stuff. Stocks, paychecks, bank accounts.

[Kenny Malone]

Today on the show, we bring you a classic episode from 2021 that is, in hindsight, a kind of bit of a public service. It's about how the government gets this stuff, this unclaimed property, how you can get it back, and why Walter Schramm may never see his stock again.

[Jennifer Borden]

Support for this podcast and the following message come from Spectrum Business working to power businesses nationwide with reliable connectivity services. When Emily and Mike decided to start a custom shoe design store in Charlotte, North Carolina, they knew the road ahead wouldn't be easy. They dreamed of creating a fun, inspiring environment to promote self expression. But they knew they couldn't achieve their vision without reliable Internet. So they chose Spectrum to help them stay connected and to keep important tools like cloud based design programs running smoothly. And as they grew, offering workshops, custom designs and more specific Spectrum was there every step of the way with flexible pricing and dedicated 24. 7 service. Learn [e-mail] business restrictions apply. Services not available in all areas. This message comes from NPR sponsor Shopify. Start selling with Shopify today. Whether you're a garage entrepreneur or IPO ready, Shopify is the only tool you need to start, run and grow your business without the struggle. Go to shopify.com npr first thing I.

[Audrey Quinn]

Needed to ask you is how do you say escheat?

[Brenda Mayrach]

Escheet.

[Audrey Quinn]

Can you say it one more time?

[Brenda Mayrach]

Escheet.

[Audrey Quinn]

Esheet.

[Brenda Mayrach]

So like my, my Twitter is don't give a Sheet.

[Kenny Malone]

Jennifer Borden runs an escheet law practice. A sheet, by the way. E S C H E A T.

[Audrey Quinn]

Are there other sheet puns?

[Brenda Mayrach]

Don't give a sheet. A sheet. Happens. Those are the only two I can come up with off the top of my head.

[Audrey Quinn]

If esheet sounds archaic, that's because it goes back to feudal England. It's essentially the act of the state taking control of property on behalf of its citizens.

[Kenny Malone]

The concept has been updated pretty dramatically and is now employed in the United States. And the way that this works now is that each state, like each actual state government, has, has an unclaimed property department. Because we the people are forgetful.

[Audrey Quinn]

Yes. We forget about retirement accounts, insurance policies, safe deposit boxes. When you forget about stuff like that, after a certain amount of time, the state is able to step in, take ownership of your unclaimed stuff, and hold onto it until you can come and claim it.

[Kenny Malone]

Think of it as like a giant state run lost and found. And this used to be Jennifer Borden's job. She worked at the Massachusetts Division of Unclaimed Property.

[Audrey Quinn]

What's the weirdest thing you've ever seen? Escheated.

[Brenda Mayrach]

We did one time have escheeded guns and blueprints to a bank. Those are from a safe deposit box.

[Audrey Quinn]

I wonder what they were up to.

[Brenda Mayrach]

Yeah, I'm not positive.

[Kenny Malone]

Every state in the country does some version of escheet. And the way it used to work in the past was the state would take control of your stuff on your behalf, of course. And then they would take out a newspaper ad saying like, hey, Joe Smith, we have your stuff. Come get it.

[Audrey Quinn]

This is my favorite part of this whole thing because states all over the country still keep these lists of missing stuff. Just now with a website, not a newspaper ad. And this brings us to my new favorite party trick, which I'm gonna do right now with Kenny.

[Kenny Malone]

Yes. Audrey has made me promise not to do this until we are recording. We are now recording. So, okay, what do I do here?

[Audrey Quinn]

What state have you probably spent the most time in recent years?

[Kenny Malone]

In recent years? The most time in Florida by far.

[Audrey Quinn]

Okay, so I want you to look up lost money. Florida.

[Kenny Malone]

All right, here's Florida's escheating site. I guess it has a better name than I would have thought. Floridatreasurehunt.gov.

[Audrey Quinn]

Okay, type your name into the little search box.

[Kenny Malone]

Okay. There's. There's a Kenneth D. Malone. That is my old address. Like a pretty old address, though. All right, Property type vendor checks reported by National Public Radio.

[Audrey Quinn]

Kenny you, you have a, you have a missing paycheck from NPR.

[Kenny Malone]

Yeah, this is great. I'm, I'm 100% taking a vacation if this is enough money. Oh, it's $40, which is fine. Which is fine. But yes, I happen to know, Audrey, that you, you did this and had much better luck than I did.

[Audrey Quinn]

I found $800.

[Kenny Malone]

Yes, $800 is good.

[Audrey Quinn]

The point is that you listening at home, you should look yourself up. You may have left behind a paycheck, utility credits, bank account you thought you closed. Your state has stepped in and is holding that money for you.

[Kenny Malone]

And you could see the argument for why this is a good thing the state does on your behalf. Like, you know, companies don't necessarily have the most incentive to get that money back to you. Like, I love npr, but you've heard our fun drives. I don't know how hard NPR was going to try to get that check back into my hand. And so what happened in that case instead is that NPR is required to tell the state of Florida, Kenny never cashed his check. And then Florida says, great, cut that check to us. We're going to hold on to the money for him. And now he can file a claim for it.

[Audrey Quinn]

Some version of this happens in every state for all kinds of companies. At the end of the year, companies have to report seemingly abandoned money to the state. The state takes control. Boom. The money goes to the financial lost and found.

[Kenny Malone]

For years, this was a big part of Jennifer Borden's job. She was working for the Massachusetts government, trying to connect people with their abandoned stuff. And she loved that. But the more time she spent thinking about as she has like a system, the more she started to notice problems.

[Brenda Mayrach]

Well, the interesting thing about unclaimed property is the states are able to use that, those, the cash or the assets until such time as the owner comes forward. So it's almost like the state has a little loan they can give themselves of other people's money.

[Kenny Malone]

And it is a lot of money. States are taking in about $8 billion a year of unclaimed property, and about two thirds of that money stays unclaimed. So in most states, it just gets folded into the state's budget.

[Audrey Quinn]

Unclaimed property is the fifth largest source of revenue for California. It's the third largest source of revenue for Delaware. Unclaimed property all across the country helps fund public programs, which might seem like a good thing, but it can create some perverse incentives.

[Brenda Mayrach]

Do we do a good job getting money back to people, or do we just let it Sit here and we don't have to raise taxes.

[Audrey Quinn]

Yeah. It just seems like a conflict of interest.

[Brenda Mayrach]

Cynically, yes. Because if you do your job well, you don't have any money left. If you don't do your job well, the penalty is that you have more money to keep in the state coffers.

[Kenny Malone]

Now, Jennifer is careful to say the people at unclaimed property offices want. Want to get unclaimed property back to the rightful owners. It is the best part of the job, she says. But maybe there is a systemic problem like this escheat system is supposed to stop companies from turning your forgetfulness into their profit. It's possible states are now just doing a version of that same thing.

[Audrey Quinn]

The amount of unclaimed money states take in every year, it's going up. And states have gotten a lot more aggressive in how they take the money in the first place.

[Kenny Malone]

The more Jennifer considered all of this, the more she thought maybe my Eschit talents would be better spent elsewhere. She still thinks that Eschit is, on the whole, a great system, but she now helps people and businesses protect their money from Escheet.

[Audrey Quinn]

Is there, like a playbook for states to bring in more unclaimed money?

[Jennifer Borden]

Sure.

[Brenda Mayrach]

So there are a couple of things that cause additional revenue to come in. Excuse me. Additional unclaimed property to come into a state, which could turn into additional revenue.

[Audrey Quinn]

Jennifer says states are getting looser with their standards about what qualifies as abandoned property.

[Kenny Malone]

For example, it used to be that an account was deemed abandoned only after a piece of mail was sent to the account holder, then got returned by the post office. The person couldn't be reached. But now in a lot of states, property gets labeled abandoned just because a person didn't check into their account or access the account within a certain length of time, which, I don't know. Like that feels like a sneakier kind of standard.

[Audrey Quinn]

Also, in a lot of states, the length of time before your account is deemed inactive, it's been shrinking. States are stepping in more quickly to helpfully take a hold of your money.

[Kenny Malone]

And all of this brings us back to Walter Schramm, the very chill, but actually quite mad investor who bought a bunch of Amazon stock back in the 90s.

[Walter Schramm]

I think it's a mistake to check the stock market. You know, it makes you nervous. You don't sleep well.

[Audrey Quinn]

Walter's very patient investment philosophy. Buy stock, then check back in 20 years. He thought he was being a smart investor. The state of Delaware thought he'd forgotten about his stock. They issued it back in 2008, they hadn't told him.

[Kenny Malone]

So great. Problem solved. The state of Delaware was holding onto Walters Amazon stock. No, that is not what happened. See, one of the problems with Escheet is that it's not always clear how it would work with different kinds of things people forgot about. So for like, you know, a check or a bank account that someone forgot, like that's pretty straightforward. The state can assume control of that money. It was just sitting there. Now it can sit in the state's.

[Audrey Quinn]

Account, but with abandoned stocks or bonds, the state takes control of your investment and it doesn't want to become your portfolio manager. So it cashes out your investment, just holds onto that money for you.

[Kenny Malone]

Obviously, the state cashing out your stocks could work in your favor if the government cashes you out right before your stock takes a dive. Or it could totally screw you. Which is what happened to Walter.

[Audrey Quinn]

Delaware sold his Amazon shares in 2008, which was before Amazon had become Amazon. Walter got the Delaware unclaimed property office on the phone and they invited him to file a claim for the 2008 value of his stock.

[Walter Schramm]

So they're offering me today to give me $8,000 for a stock that is worth way over 100k dollars.

[Kenny Malone]

$8,000 for stock that was worth $100,000.

[Audrey Quinn]

It's actually now worth even more than that. Walter hasn't checked the Amazon stock price in a while. That's too depressing.

[Kenny Malone]

After the break, we call the State of Delaware and ask, does Walter really need to take this a sheet? Okay, it's bad. You wrote it. Audrey.

[Capella University]

This message comes from Charles Schwab. Financial decisions can be tricky. Your cognitive and emotional biases can lead you astray. Financial Decoder, an original podcast from Charles Schwab can help. Listen [e-mail] financialdecoder support for NPR and the following message come from LinkedIn ads. It's 2025. If your B2B marketing strategy for the new year doesn't include improving your ad targeting, your ads can get lost in the noise. LinkedIn ads can help by ensuring your message makes it to the right audience. Start converting your B2B audience into high quality leads today. We'll even give you $100 credit on your next campaign. Go to LinkedIn.com money to claim your credit. Terms and conditions apply. LinkedIn the Place to be. To be. This message comes from Capella University. Learning doesn't have to get in the way of life. With Capella's game changing flexpath learning format, you can set your own deadlines and learn on your own schedule. That means you don't have to put your life on hold to earn your degree. Instead, enjoy learning your way and pursue your educational and career goals without missing a beat. A different future is closer than you think with Capella University. Learn more at Capella.

[Kenny Malone]

Eduardo it's not a coincidence that Walters stock was taken by Delaware. That is where two thirds of all Fortune 500 companies are incorporated. And that's a lot of potentially lost accounts to keep track of.

[Audrey Quinn]

We talk to the person who's in charge of that.

[Brenda Mayrach]

I'm Brenda Mayrach. I am the Delaware State Escheater and director of the Office of Unclaimed Property.

[Audrey Quinn]

After talking to Walter and our Escheat lawyer, Jennifer, there were two main things we wanted to ask Brenda about.

[Kenny Malone]

The first was about this idea that unclaimed property has become a huge source of revenue for states. For the last few years. Delaware's general fund has gotten a lot of money from Escheat, around $550 million a year.

[Audrey Quinn]

Does your office feel any pressure to make sure that money keeps coming in?

[Brenda Mayrach]

It is a fairly stable revenue source from year to year, and it has been. I wouldn't say we feel pressure. We really just want to make sure that the process is there.

[Audrey Quinn]

I guess what I'm getting at here is that at a certain point it kind of just seems like the state is grabbing somebody's money.

[Brenda Mayrach]

Some people may be critical of that system, but the alternatives are that the bank or the company keeps the money.

[Audrey Quinn]

Brenda says fundamentally this is a way to look out for consumers to safely take forgotten money out of company's hands and keep it in a place where people can get their money back easily.

[Brenda Mayrach]

I recommend to everyone that they should search at least once a year. I typically suggest that people search either on their birthday or when they file their income taxes or maybe at the first of the year.

[Kenny Malone]

Again, if you take nothing else from this episode, it is that you should go and make sure you've not left abandoned money somewhere that is now in a state coffer. I I am $40 of living proof that you should do that. And in that regard it is a good system. I never would have found that money. It probably never would have found me. On the other hand, Escheet clearly has some flaws. We've learned some disconcerting things about this from Walter Schramm's Amazon case.

[Audrey Quinn]

Delaware has made some changes that theoretically would have helped someone like Walter. The state actually does now require a letter to go out to a person before Their property gets escheated, but the.

[Kenny Malone]

State still deems a bank account abandoned after five years and investments abandoned after just three years.

[Audrey Quinn]

Why the three years or why. Why five years? It just. It seems pretty arbitrary.

[Brenda Mayrach]

It needs to be short enough so that companies aren't actually losing track of people and then basically taking a windfall of that property or benefiting from that property over time. So it's trying to strike a balance.

[Audrey Quinn]

Can I tell you specifically the story that I'm working on? Okay, so for this piece, I talked to this guy.

[Kenny Malone]

We figured that Brenda wouldn't be able to talk about individual cases, but gave it a shot anyway. Audrey told her about Walter and his Amazon bet.

[Audrey Quinn]

It just doesn't quite make sense to me of why not checking your stock for a few years can carry such a heavy penalty.

[Brenda Mayrach]

I really can't respond to that. There is no penalty. The company has complied with the law. The state complies with its laws. If a person isn't exercising ownership over their account, they may have passed away. Then what happens? That's why states have unclaimed property laws.

[Kenny Malone]

As for Walter, here's where his case stands. Walter initially looked for an attorney to help him get the current value of his Amazon stock from Delaware. More than $100,000 a ton of money. But apparently not enough for a lawyer to take the case on.

[Audrey Quinn]

Walter says, I talked to the lawyer for two French investors who lost $13 million from Escheet for cases like that, lawyers are interested. For Walters, they were not.

[Kenny Malone]

So for now, Walter is stuck with the original deal from Delaware. The state offered to pay him back the value of his stock from when they cashed in 2008, which is about $8,000.

[Walter Schramm]

I didn't cash that check. I wrote them that I don't accept their offer. I am sure the way Amazon is growing, their stock will be 20, 30 times the value of today in 20 years. So it's going to be a multimillion dollar back catch. And I'm sure then I'll find a lawyer who is willing to represent my children because it's worth his while.

[Audrey Quinn]

So you're just gonna wait until it's worth even more?

[Walter Schramm]

Yeah, sure. I'm gonna wait until this is worth 2, 3, 4, 5 million dollars. So that's the plan.

[Kenny Malone]

The hope is that at that point it'll be worth it for a lawyer to take on the Schram descendants case and they'll get Delaware to settle, which does happen sometimes.

[Audrey Quinn]

In the meantime, Walter has found a different investing approach. He's bought into Google and Facebook through a firm based in Europe where they do not esche accounts.

[Kenny Malone]

Okay, so it has been about five years now since this episode originally ran and there is a fair amount of news to share. So let us begin with Walter Schramm, who did in fact find a lawyer and is now the lead plaintiff in a class action lawsuit essentially against Delaware's unclaimed property office. That suit alleges that people like Walter were not given appropriate notice before their property or their stock in his case were seized and then liquidated. Now, that case is still ongoing and since we first talked to Walter, the price of his now long ago liquidated Amazon stock has more than doubled. And our final update, and I just want you to picture like a rainstorm of cash coming down for this one. Since our episode originally ran, Planet Money listeners like you have found over $38,000 in unclaimed property at their various states. And, and that is just those of you who got in touch to tell us about it. So, so listen, if you go to your state's unclaimed property website and you find lost money, please do tell us about it. We, we have a spreadsheet. We love updating that thing. You can email us. We are planet moneypr.org you can also tag us and show the world that you found money on all the social medias. That is generally at Planet Money. And I mean, you know, listen, if you suddenly find yourself with some unexpected cash and a lot of gratitude for your favorite economics show, well, I will remind you that the best way to support our journalism at Planet Money is to become a regular NPR supporter. You can do that by going to plus.NPR.org this is a way to help us stay independent and a way for you to get sponsor free versions of our episodes. And right now we've got a special series from the Planet Money archives that include a behind the scenes look at the time Planet Money bought a toxic asset that we named Toxi. Lots of incredible details about how that project came together. That is for our Planet Money plus subscribers. And thank you so much if you are already one of them. Today's episode was produced originally by Alexi Horowitz Ghazi with editing from Nick Fountain. The update today was produced by James Sneed. Our executive producer is Alex Goldmark.

[Audrey Quinn]

Special thanks to David Knott, Ethan Miller, Randy Hoates, Wilson Barmeyer, Cindy Nisli and Bill Palmer. I'm Audrey Quinn.

[Kenny Malone]

I'm Kenny Malone. This is npr. Thanks for listening.

[Jennifer Borden]

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