How useful, really, are the steps you can take after a data breach?

Summary

Planet Money Podcast Summary: "How Useful, Really, Are the Steps You Can Take After a Data Breach?"

Introduction

In the December 2, 2024 episode of Planet Money, NPR hosts Kenny Malone and Amanda Aronczyk delve into the crucial topic of data breaches and the actionable steps individuals can take to protect their personal information. This episode, originally part of Amanda’s broader exploration of data breaches, is presented as a bonus episode, making it accessible to all listeners. The conversation is both informative and relatable, providing practical advice backed by personal anecdotes and expert insights.

Understanding Data Breaches

Amanda Aronczyk introduces the episode by sharing her personal experiences and the anxiety associated with discovering a data breach. She explains how working on the data breach episode led her to uncover valuable strategies for safeguarding personal information. Kenny Malone echoes these sentiments, highlighting the frustration of having strong personal security measures in place only to see massive data breaches compromise that security.

Step 1: Order Your Free Credit Report ([07:12] - [08:00])

The first recommendation is to obtain a free credit report from one of the three major credit bureaus: Experian, TransUnion, or Equifax. Amanda emphasizes the importance of regularly reviewing these reports to monitor any suspicious activity.

Kenny Malone [07:12]: “Get your free credit report. Great.”

Amanda adds,

Amanda Aronczyk [07:26]: “This is a check-in. I mean this is something that people should just do regularly anyway. This is a helpful thing.”

By reviewing credit reports, individuals can detect unauthorized accounts or discrepancies that may indicate fraudulent activity resulting from a data breach.

Step 2: Enroll in Credit and Identity Monitoring Services ([09:02] - [11:35])

The second step involves signing up for credit and identity monitoring services, often offered for free by companies that have experienced a data breach. Amanda points out that while these services can provide alerts on suspicious activities, they come with caveats.

Amanda Aronczyk [09:02]: “Some states actually require that they offer you free credit monitoring if you've been involved in a data breach.”

However, Amanda cautions:

Amanda Aronczyk [09:52]: “I have gotten this offer so many times, I don't pay that close attention to it.”

Kenny raises a critical question about whether these services impact credit scores:

Kenny Malone [10:44]: “Do any of these affect my credit score?”

Amanda reassures him that these services do not affect credit scores but advises vigilance regarding the fine print, as some services may require users to waive their right to sue the credit bureau.

Step 3: Contact the US Federal Trade Commission ([11:51] - [12:54])

The third recommendation is to reach out to the US Federal Trade Commission (FTC). Although the FTC may not provide personalized assistance, Amanda highlights the value of their resources.

Amanda Aronczyk [12:25]: “They have guides for consumers and they also have guides for businesses like they have, you know, so you've been hacked. What should you do for your customers?”

Kenny humorously notes the possibility of receiving impersonal responses:

Kenny Malone [11:58]: “You could try. I mean, the way the FTC is handling this is if they get a lot of complaints about something, they will go and act on that.”

Overall, contacting the FTC is portrayed as a step towards understanding broader protective measures and contributing to systemic responses against data breaches.

Step 4: Place a Fraud Alert on Your Credit File ([12:54] - [14:36])

Amanda elaborates on the importance of placing a fraud alert with one of the major credit bureaus. This alert notifies lenders to take extra steps to verify identity before issuing credit.

Amanda Aronczyk [13:03]: “What this is going to do is if somebody like, let's say you go to Macy's and you decide you're going to go get one of those like Macy's cards or something like that and Macy's calls to see if Kenny is worth giving a Macy's card to. They're probably going to call you up, they're going to contact you and be like, did you actually want this?”

Kenny concurs,

Kenny Malone [13:32]: “Got it.”

Amanda mentions that initiating a fraud alert with one bureau will automatically notify the other two, simplifying the process for individuals.

Step 5: Request a Credit Freeze ([14:36] - [15:41])

The final major step discussed is requesting a credit freeze, which restricts access to your credit report and prevents new credit from being opened in your name without explicit permission.

Amanda Aronczyk [15:08]: “So most things still happen, but your credit is frozen, and so nobody can get a loan in your name.”

Kenny reflects on the importance of this measure,

Kenny Malone [15:29]: “It seems obvious to me that a security freeze is useful. It is. It is an armor plate against someone doing one of the worst things they can do when they steal your identity, which is tank your credit by taking out a giant line of credit in your name.”

Amanda reassures listeners that implementing a credit freeze is a straightforward process with the major bureaus.

Additional Protective Measures ([16:06] - [19:58])

Beyond the primary five steps, Amanda and Kenny discuss several supplemental strategies:

1. Use Privacy Services:

   • Amanda Aronczyk [16:06]: “We at NPR have a service called Deleteme, which is like a privacy service that helps scrape you off of the Internet.”

2. Monitor Financial Statements:

   • Regularly check credit card and bank statements for unauthorized transactions.
   • Kenny shares his personal experience with fraudulent TikTok purchases to illustrate the repercussions of data breaches.

3. Strengthen Password Security:

   • Change passwords regularly, especially for critical accounts like email, banking, and credit cards.
   • Use strong, unique passwords for each account. Amanda discusses the pros and cons of using password managers, highlighting concerns about centralized data security but acknowledging their benefits in managing complex passwords.

4. Implement Two-Factor or Multi-Factor Authentication (2FA/MFA):

   • Enable 2FA or MFA wherever possible to add an extra layer of security.
   • Amanda Aronczyk [18:01]: “Just make sure you do the big ones. You do your email, change that all the time. You do your bank, you do your credit card...”

Kenny offers a motivational perspective on the inconvenience of 2FA:

Kenny Malone [19:06]: “Think of it not as an annoying sort of extra hurdle. Think of it as a fun little scavenger hunt... It’s like an escape room of your own life.”

Systemic Reflections on Data Security

Throughout the conversation, Amanda and Kenny reflect on the broader implications of data security in the digital age. They express frustration over the burden placed on individuals to protect their data amidst widespread breaches and the commodification of personal information.

Amanda Aronczyk [20:02]: “The sad part for me in all of this though, is how much is put on you, Kenny. How much was put on me? I think this is some real bs.”

Kenny adds,

Kenny Malone [20:16]: “A lot for a password manager. Yes, that's right.”

They conclude that while personal vigilance is essential, there is a need for systemic changes to better protect consumer data without overburdening individuals.

Conclusion

Kenny and Amanda wrap up the episode by reinforcing the importance of the discussed steps and providing resources for listeners. They mention that links to all recommended services and further information will be available in the show notes, guiding listeners on where to find more detailed instructions and support.

Kenny Malone [21:01]: “We're gonna put links to the resources and websites that we talked about or that Amanda talked about. She's gonna do all that work... in the show notes.”

They also promote Amanda’s original episode on the illegal and legal markets for data, encouraging listeners to explore the topic further.

Notable Quotes

• Kenny Malone [19:06]: “Think of it not as an annoying sort of extra hurdle. Think of it as a fun little scavenger hunt... It’s like an escape room of your own life.”

• Amanda Aronczyk [15:08]: “So most things still happen, but your credit is frozen, and so nobody can get a loan in your name.”

• Kenny Malone [15:29]: “It seems obvious to me that a security freeze is useful. It is. It is an armor plate against someone doing one of the worst things they can do when they steal your identity, which is tank your credit by taking out a giant line of credit in your name.”

Resources Mentioned

Listeners are encouraged to visit the show notes for direct links to:

• Free credit report services from Experian, TransUnion, and Equifax.
• Credit and identity monitoring services.
• The US Federal Trade Commission’s consumer protection guides.
• Fraud alert and credit freeze procedures with the major credit bureaus.
• Deleteme privacy service.

Final Thoughts

This episode of Planet Money serves as an essential guide for individuals navigating the aftermath of a data breach. Through comprehensive discussions and practical advice, Kenny Malone and Amanda Aronczyk equip listeners with the knowledge to safeguard their personal information effectively. By breaking down each step and providing personal insights, the hosts make a complex and often stressful topic accessible and actionable.

Transcript

[Kenny Malone]

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[Kenny Malone]

This is Planet Money from NPR. Hello, I am Kenny Malone.

[Amanda Aronczyk]

And I'm Amanda Aronczyk.

[Kenny Malone]

And we are here because, of course, the season of giving is upon us. The spirit of giving. And in that spirit, Amanda, we at Planet Money would like to share with everyone a sample of what our bonus content sounds like. So usually what you're about to hear, it's just for our Planet Money plus supporters. But today we are making this bonus episode available to everyone. To all.

[Amanda Aronczyk]

Yes, these episodes come out every two weeks. You know, basically our bonus episodes, they might be extended cuts of interviews. They might be interviews that come from our newsletter. We might talk about how an episode was made. Occasionally we do a movie club where we talk about economics in a film. Kenny, I understand that you are going to do that again soon. Love it.

[Kenny Malone]

Oh yeah. Christmas at the Alpaca Farm.

[Amanda Aronczyk]

Is that really the movie?

[Kenny Malone]

Yeah. There is a lot of economics in this. The economics of how Christmas rom coms get made, the economics of the fiber markets. And the more I say it, I know, the more it sounds like it is a joke. Is not a joke.

[Amanda Aronczyk]

Sounds delightful and seasonal, honestly.

[Kenny Malone]

Anyway, sometimes we watch movies and we talk about them on the bonus feed, but then sometimes we're also just working on an episode of the show and there's extra material that didn't fit in and we want to share it. And that is what we are here to do today in this bonus episode. So, Amanda, Yes. You recently did an episode, a whole episode on what happens when your personal data gets stolen and you had a bunch of extra reporting on it that I have been begging you to tell me about personally.

[Amanda Aronczyk]

Yes, that's true. And for the season of giving, I come bearing news you can use.

[Kenny Malone]

It fits in a stocking.

[Amanda Aronczyk]

Yeah, we wrap it up. You like put that under the tree. Put it in the stocking. This is advice on what you can do to protect your personal information. If you've been part of a database breach, even if you have not been part of a data breach, some of this will be news that you can use. I will tell you that part of the genesis of this episode was while I was making the data breach episode, I would like lie there at night and be like, oh my God, I got to go change my bank password. And then I'd wake up and then I'd be like, oh my God, I got to go set up two step authentication. I would have all of these. Like. So over the course of making the episode, I learned a lot about how to protect your data, my data. And now I'm going to share that.

[Kenny Malone]

Okay. So if you would like to hear more bonus content like what you're about to hear, you can sign up for Planet Money [e-mail] that is plus.NPR.org There are other perks as well, including our regular episodes sponsor free. And if you are a part of Planet Money plus already, then thank you. Thank you for supporting us genuinely. This keeps our work and the work of NPR going.

[Amanda Aronczyk]

It really does. This is super helpful. We're very grateful when you subscribe. And with that, we hope you enjoy this conversation. We will be back with a regular episode for you later this week.

[Kenny Malone]

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[Grammarly Ad]

This message comes from NPR sponsor Merrill. Whatever your financial goals are, you want a straightforward path there. But the real world doesn't usually work that way. Merrill understands that. That's why with a dedicated Merrill advisor, you get a personalized plan and a clear path forward. Go to ML.combullish to learn more. Merrill, a Bank of America company. What would you like the power to do? Investing involves risk. Merrill Lynch, Pierce, Fenner and Smith Inc. Registered broker, dealer Registered investment advisor Member, sipc.

[Kenny Malone]

And we're back. Okay, we're gonna start this. Ready? Classic Classic radio.

[Amanda Aronczyk]

Oh yeah, Kenny, you just love to shuffle a little piece of paper, don't you?

[Kenny Malone]

It's what we do. It's what we do. That is a rather voluminous letter I received, in fact, everyone in my family received one of these telling us that we were all part of a substantial hack.

[Amanda Aronczyk]

Yeah.

[Kenny Malone]

Let me get a little sound of that again.

[Amanda Aronczyk]

So that letter, just FYI, that is required, I believe, by all states that they send you a letter saying, hey, sorry, not bad, we got hacked.

[Kenny Malone]

And this one in particular is like, not the company I was doing business with. They apparently were managing data on behalf of the company I was doing business with. So it's. This letter in particular is funny because it's like, hey, you've never heard of us. You've never heard of us. But one thing you should know about us is we know a lot about you.

[Amanda Aronczyk]

And it does seem like those are prime targets, these companies that are like, central warehouses for data.

[Kenny Malone]

Yep.

[Amanda Aronczyk]

The hackers are identifying places that have a ton of data on hand as opposed to, like, oh, I'm just gonna go hack you, Kenny. What's the point? When I could go get hundreds of millions of data about all sorts of different people?

[Kenny Malone]

Yes. And this is particularly frustrating to me, I will say before we get into this, because I'm very careful about my passwords. I change my passwords all the time. I use very complex passwords that I can't remember. I use a password manager to keep track of them. I use two factor authentication. It doesn't matter in this case, because they didn't hack me personally. They hacked this big company that had all of my data.

[Amanda Aronczyk]

Yeah. I'm so sorry, Kenny. That's the worst.

[Kenny Malone]

Yeah. So anyway, I have a very basic question.

[Amanda Aronczyk]

Yeah.

[Kenny Malone]

I got this letter and there are all these suggestions about what I could do in this letter. Can you help me understand what I am supposed to do?

[Amanda Aronczyk]

Yes, I will do my best.

[Kenny Malone]

Okay. Letter noise, Letter noise, Letter noise. There are, I think, about five or six suggestions in here that I would love to just go through with you. And you can tell me, are these useful? Are they BS or are they somewhere in between? Shall we?

[Amanda Aronczyk]

Yeah.

[Kenny Malone]

Here we go. Thing it suggests, number one, order my free credit report. So what this means is that, you know, there are companies. Experian, TransUnion. What's the other major one?

[Grammarly Ad]

Equifax.

[Kenny Malone]

Equifax.

[Amanda Aronczyk]

I always forget.

[Kenny Malone]

These are the major credit bureaus. They keep track of tons of our information to tell someone else how likely it is that we are to pay back a loan. I mean, that is their very basic function in society.

[Amanda Aronczyk]

Yes. Are you credit worthy? Is it worth lending you some money? Can you pay it back? Will you have you historically Paid it.

[Kenny Malone]

Back, correct all of that stuff. Okay, so you can order a credit report from one of these companies if you've never done it about yourself. And so here I am being told that this could maybe help me in some way now that I've been hacked. Should I, should I do that? Is it helpful?

[Amanda Aronczyk]

Yes, that one is helpful. It is always helpful to get your credit report. Take a look, have a sense of like what they're keeping track of. And a big reason to do this is because the time between the hack and when you get that letter, it's not supposed to be very long, but sometimes it takes months. So it is very possible that something bad and suspicious happened in that time period. So that's going to be backwards looking.

[Kenny Malone]

I think the credit reports will often say like, hey, remember when you asked to take out this line of credit? And I'll be like, no, I didn't ask to take out this line of credit.

[Amanda Aronczyk]

Yeah, okay, so this is a check in. I mean this is something that people should just do regularly anyway. This is a helpful thing. Make sure that you know, you know, has your credit been impacted by the hack and maybe even you'll just see some other things that have nothing to do with the hack that you should just be aware of.

[Kenny Malone]

Okay, that doesn't sound fun, but I will look that up and read that.

[Amanda Aronczyk]

And this is very easy to do by the way. We're going to say this over and over again, but we will put links in our show notes. So if we meet mention anything here in this episode, we are going to put links in our show notes. You can go find those.

[Kenny Malone]

Okay, so not bs. Get your free credit report. Great thing number two.

[Amanda Aronczyk]

Yeah.

[Kenny Malone]

Enroll in credit and identity monitoring services. Okay, so I've never done this before, but presumably this is a service that just that I guess this company that got hacked is now providing me for free to just like keep an eye on whether someone is going is taking out like a line of credit in my name or something like that.

[Amanda Aronczyk]

Yeah, this is a funny one. Some states actually require that they offer you free credit monitoring if you've been involved in a data breach. But again it depends on the state and also the personal data involved. There is actually a academic paper from 2012 that says if they offer you this service, this free credit monitoring, it's going to reduce the likelihood that you sue them by a lot.

[Kenny Malone]

Oh yeah, interesting.

[Amanda Aronczyk]

What will often happen is you'll get this letter and it'll say in there that they've made some sort of arrangement with another company. And that company will offer you free credit monitoring, which is basically a report. It's not your credit report. It's like a report that comes to your inbox or you can have it mailed to you and it's going to say like, hey, you know, we were watching this. We saw some suspicious activity here. We saw this email used here. Somebody pinged us about this. I have been doing it for years with Experian, and that one's actually pretty detailed.

[Kenny Malone]

Was that after. After a hack, you did it? Yeah.

[Amanda Aronczyk]

And I will admit that I've gotten this offer so many times, I don't pay that close attention to it.

[Kenny Malone]

Maybe to the emails they send me.

[Amanda Aronczyk]

To the emails that they send me. It's not. Not useful.

[Kenny Malone]

Okay. Not. Not useful. It's not.

[Amanda Aronczyk]

Not useful.

[Kenny Malone]

We should have put that in on the, on our, on our rubric. Well, I do have a question that I don't, I don't know if you know the answer to, but if I enroll in one of these credit monitoring services or I request my free credit report, do any of these affect my credit score? Do they affect my credit? Because.

[Amanda Aronczyk]

No.

[Kenny Malone]

I think the more people run.

[Amanda Aronczyk]

No.

[Kenny Malone]

Okay. Yeah, that'd be messed up.

[Amanda Aronczyk]

Yeah. So here's the trick with these things. Yeah. So let's say you were offered credit monitoring from one of the big three credit bureaus. This is where you want to be a little bit careful as you sign up. It is very possible that as you go in. And this is what happened to me, that as you go to sign up, you will be asked to waive your right to legal action. You will not be able to sue the credit bureau.

[Kenny Malone]

Yeah. So helpful to join the credit monitoring. However, read the fine print.

[Amanda Aronczyk]

Read the fine print. Read the fine print.

[Kenny Malone]

Because you may be waiving your right to be part of some large litigation or something.

[Amanda Aronczyk]

Right.

[Kenny Malone]

So not bs, a little asterisk, but. Okay, good idea.

[Amanda Aronczyk]

Yeah, take a look. I mean, always take a look at the fine print. But like the whole Internet is based on us not looking on the fine print. But if you can do it, try sometimes. It's well written.

[Kenny Malone]

Suggestion number three.

[Amanda Aronczyk]

Yeah.

[Kenny Malone]

Contact the US Federal Trade Commission.

[Amanda Aronczyk]

You know who doesn't want to hear from you?

[Kenny Malone]

The US Federal Trade Commission.

[Amanda Aronczyk]

You could try. I mean, the way the FTC is handling this is if they get a lot of complaints about something, they will go and act on that. Are they going to call you Kenny and be like, hey, Kenny, I'm going to help you out?

[Kenny Malone]

We've been looking at Your case, Kenny, working overtime on it.

[Amanda Aronczyk]

We've all talked to the FTC a couple times. They are trying with their resources to help people. So you can send a complaint to them if you want.

[Kenny Malone]

Uh huh. I mean, and to be fair, it seems that what it's actually telling me to do is like go read whatever they've written about how to protect yourself from identity theft. That seems to really be what they want me to do.

[Amanda Aronczyk]

I actually do encourage you to do that. It is very well written, it's very straightforward. They have guides for consumers and they also have guides for businesses like they have, you know, so you've been hacked. What should you do for your customers? And they're actually not bad, they're not bad resources. We'll provide links.

[Kenny Malone]

Okay, that one is very funny though. Item number four, place a fraud alert on your credit file.

[Amanda Aronczyk]

Yes. So if you again go to the big three, Experian, TransUnion and Equifax, there are a bunch of things that you can do while you are there and one of them is place an alert on your credit file. What this is going to do is if somebody like, let's say you go to Macy's and you decide you're going to go get one of those like Macy's cards or something like that and Macy's calls to see if Kenny is worth giving a Macy's card to. They're probably going to call you up, they're going to contact you and be like, did you actually want this?

[Kenny Malone]

Got it.

[Amanda Aronczyk]

So that's what that, that fraud alert does.

[Kenny Malone]

A kind of like second or third factor authentication on credit line.

[Amanda Aronczyk]

Yeah, it's not a bad idea. Okay, not bad. Not bad. Fraud alert.

[Kenny Malone]

And do I do that with all three of the big credit bureaus?

[Amanda Aronczyk]

No, you do not. If you place a fraud alert on your credit report with one of the credit bureaus, they say that they will notify the other two.

[Kenny Malone]

Right. Okay. All right. So yet again, not a bad idea.

[Amanda Aronczyk]

Not a bad idea.

[Kenny Malone]

Okay, final, final recommended step. This is a big one. And it's one of that I actually have thought about a lot. This is a recommended security freeze. I guess I should say it's not recommending it, it's saying, quote, you have the right to request a credit freeze from a consumer reporting agency, which is another name for the credit bureaus. So that functionally locks down your ability to take out a loan. So get a new line of credit, maybe extend an existing line of credit. It locks that ability down unless you preemptively open it up because you know you're about to request a new line.

[Amanda Aronczyk]

Yes. This does appear to be the kind of gold star of what you can do to protect yourself, which is you are going to freeze your credit, which means that, as you said, you are no longer able to get a loan for anything. But it's not. It isn't. Actually, I was a little bit surprised when I started to dig into it a little bit more. It doesn't stop all sorts of other processes. Like, people can still. Like, if you were trying to get a job, somebody can still call up Experian and be like, can I look at the report? And the answer is probably yes.

[Kenny Malone]

Okay, sure.

[Amanda Aronczyk]

You're not trying to, like, open a new line of.

[Kenny Malone]

That makes sense.

[Amanda Aronczyk]

So most things still happen, but your credit is frozen, and so nobody can get a loan in your name.

[Kenny Malone]

Yeah.

[Amanda Aronczyk]

The big three make this quite easy. You just go online to lock and unlock. Yeah. To freeze and thaw.

[Kenny Malone]

Freeze and thaw? Is that the term?

[Amanda Aronczyk]

That is the parlance, yeah.

[Kenny Malone]

It seems obvious to me that a security freeze is useful. It is. It is an armor plate against someone doing one of the worst things they can do when they steal your identity, which is tank your credit by taking out a giant line of credit in your name.

[Amanda Aronczyk]

Right.

[Kenny Malone]

This is. This is the medicine I was kind of dreading. I would. You would need to take in a situation like this because it seems. It definitely seems inconvenient, but. But obviously helpful. So.

[Amanda Aronczyk]

Yeah. And it will not take you very long.

[Kenny Malone]

Okay. Okay, I will do that. Especially before this episode runs, telling everyone that I've been part of a giant hack. Yes.

[Amanda Aronczyk]

Not a bad idea.

[Kenny Malone]

So that's all that's in this list, basically. Is there anything else I should be doing?

[Amanda Aronczyk]

Yeah, we at NPR have a service called Deleteme, which is like a privacy service that helps scrape you off of the Internet. Your name, your phone number, your address.

[Kenny Malone]

It's basically the image that you've landed flat on the Internet. And they're peeling you off.

[Amanda Aronczyk]

Yeah. They're trying to scrape Amanda, trying to pull some of your information off of the Internet so you're harder to find. Your address, your email, your cell phone number. Harder to find. And honestly, it's been effective.

[Kenny Malone]

Okay. Pretty helpful. All right. Anything else that one should do after they've learned that they're part of a gigantic hack?

[Amanda Aronczyk]

Yeah. I mean, you should look on your credit card. You should look on your bank statement.

[Kenny Malone]

Yes. I can't believe we didn't even say that.

[Amanda Aronczyk]

I can't believe we didn't say that. Go look and see if there's any weird charges that you don't recognize.

[Kenny Malone]

Do you know the one that kept happening to me?

[Amanda Aronczyk]

What's that?

[Kenny Malone]

Is like TikTok purchases. Not on this one, but like when someone got a hold of a credit card number, they just kept buying crap through TikTok. Like on people's TikTok stores.

[Amanda Aronczyk]

No, not. Okay. I guess it's connected to your credit card. Like, you probably like. Or maybe not. I don't.

[Kenny Malone]

It showed up as TikTok purchases and it was like, obviously I didn't make this purchase. This is outrageous.

[Amanda Aronczyk]

Your credit card is your friend in fraud. Like, they do not want you defrauded. It is very expensive for them. They have very good mechanisms set up to, like, find fraud. So you should be watching your credit card and you should be calling them up if you see charges that you don't recognize. Same with your bank. This is something that I learned also doing research here was like, I think that feeling of like, oh, my gosh, I've got to change my passwords constantly feels very overwhelming because you have so many passwords. So one thing you can do is just make sure you do the big ones. You do your email, change that all the time. You do your bank, you do your credit card, you do the things that have access to your financial and personal, like, most sensitive information.

[Kenny Malone]

Right, Right. Or your email is like, unfortunately, the key to everything.

[Amanda Aronczyk]

Right.

[Kenny Malone]

So you want to protect that.

[Amanda Aronczyk]

Yes, you definitely want to be protecting your email because. Yes, because chances are too, at some point you've emailed a password to somebody and it's sitting there in your email. It's a lot of personal information in your email. And the password manager thing, I have very mixed feelings about. I am using Google Chrome password manager. It's fine. It's sort of out of laziness. I have not done the best and brightest research on this. I have not done a ton of research on this. But we are offered a password manager at work. I have not taken it partly because I. I think of password managers as centralized repositories of data and they get hacked.

[Kenny Malone]

Centralized repository of all your passwords, they get hacked too.

[Amanda Aronczyk]

So they are being extra super duper careful.

[Kenny Malone]

Theoretically, your passwords, but putting them all in one place are encrypted in some way.

[Amanda Aronczyk]

Yeah, but, yeah, being all in one place makes me nervous. But I think for the most part, people in this field or in this area will say to you, yeah, that's a good idea, because it'll help you have strong passwords.

[Kenny Malone]

It's choosing. What's clear is you're choosing which risk you want to take here. Yeah, like that. That is all that exists in this horrible dystopia that we've created for ourselves in the data world.

[Amanda Aronczyk]

Yeah, this is. This is how we get the Internet for free, is we give up our data.

[Kenny Malone]

Have I learned everything?

[Amanda Aronczyk]

I don't know. Oh, yeah. I was just going to say also, just for basic Password manager, if you have an account that offers two step authentication, do it, use it. That seems to be how people hack very easily is setups where they didn't do two step or multifactor authentication is the other term for that.

[Kenny Malone]

I just want to say, I know it's a little annoying to have multiple steps, but may I suggest a reframing in your head? Think of it not as an annoying sort of extra hurdle. Think of it as a fun little scavenger hunt that you get to play where it's like you get, ooh, now I'm going over here to my phone and ooh, now I'm going over here to my email and I'm going to type it in. It's like an escape room, really. It's like an escape room of your own life.

[Amanda Aronczyk]

Yeah, that's fun.

[Kenny Malone]

See, reframe it and then. And then multifactor authentication rules.

[Amanda Aronczyk]

So I mean, the sad part for me in all of this though, is how much is put on you, Kenny. How much was put on me? I think this is some real bs. I don't think we should have to spend all of our time and money like this is the. There is an industry of I'm paying.

[Kenny Malone]

A lot for a password man manager. Yes, that's right.

[Amanda Aronczyk]

And. And a lot of these protections are so that you're not the lowest hanging fruit. Right. So that you're actually kind of a pain to hack. That's what you're doing here is trying to make you a less obvious target.

[Kenny Malone]

I see. You don't have to outrun the bear, you just have to outrun other people.

[Amanda Aronczyk]

Outrunning the bear.

[Kenny Malone]

The bear. That's.

[Amanda Aronczyk]

Oh, exactly. When you put it like that. True. That is true.

[Kenny Malone]

Okay. All right. I. This is exactly what I wanted.

[Amanda Aronczyk]

Good.

[Kenny Malone]

Just gonna go lock and unlock my credit. Yeah, that's great.

[Amanda Aronczyk]

There you go. Beautiful. Well, Kenny, thank you. This has been fun.

[Kenny Malone]

Thank you, Amanda.

[Amanda Aronczyk]

No problem. Happy to share all this.

[Kenny Malone]

So listen, we're gonna put links to the resources and websites that we talked about or that Amanda talked about. She's gonna do all of that work. I don't know why I'm saying we it's gonna be you, Amanda. You got all the work to do.

[Amanda Aronczyk]

I'm gonna do that.

[Kenny Malone]

That's gonna be in the show notes. And we're also gonna link to Amanda's original episode, which is great and about like, kind of more the system here that allows this kind of hack to happen.

[Amanda Aronczyk]

Yes. It's about the illegal and legal markets for our data.

[Kenny Malone]

Amanda goes on the dark Web.

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We go on the dark Web.

[Amanda Aronczyk]

It's fun.

[Kenny Malone]

Once again, we make bonus content like this one every other week for our Planet Money plus supporters. So if you want more Planet Money in your life and you want to help keep our work and the work of NPR going, you can sign up for Planet Money Plus. That is at plus.npr.org plus.npr.org I'm Kenny Malone.

[Amanda Aronczyk]

And I'm Amanda Aronczyk. This is Planet Money from npr.

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