Made in America

Summary

Planet Money: "Made in America" – Detailed Summary

Episode Overview Planet Money, hosted by Sarah Gonzalez from NPR, delves into the intricate dynamics of the garment manufacturing industry in the United States. Titled "Made in America," the episode explores why the U.S. still retains a fragment of its garment industry, the challenges faced by workers like Maria, and the broader economic and ethical implications of domestic versus international clothing production. Through interviews, personal narratives, and expert insights, the episode sheds light on labor practices, wage structures, and the future of American manufacturing.

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1. Introduction to Maria: A Glimpse into Domestic Garment Work

The episode opens with a heartwarming introduction to Maria, a 73-year-old garment worker from Puebla, Mexico, who has been trimming clothes in Los Angeles, California, for nearly three decades.

• Maria's Communication: Despite not speaking English fluently, Maria effectively communicates through gestures and limited English phrases, demonstrating her adaptability and dedication.

  Maria [00:08]: "No, not a word. She says, no, no, no, nada, nada, nada."

• Maria's Role: As a trimmer, Maria meticulously removes loose threads from garments, ensuring the final product meets quality standards.

  Sarah Gonzalez [00:35]: "Maria is a garment worker in the U.S., one of not that many left. She's originally from Puebla, Mexico."

Personal Touch: Maria's character is vividly portrayed—she adorns herself with grandma sandals and a flower in her hair, illustrating the human side of the garment industry.

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2. The Essence of Piece-Rate Pay in Garment Manufacturing

The core of the episode examines the piece-rate pay system prevalent in the garment industry, where workers are compensated based on the number of items they produce rather than hourly wages.

• Maria's Earnings Evolution: Maria's pay has increased from 3-5 cents per piece in 1994 to 15-16 cents per piece today.

  Maria [04:44]: "Si. Por dinero. Si."

• Piece-Rate Pay Dynamics: This system incentivizes speed, often at the expense of quality and worker well-being. Maria's efficiency improved from 100 pieces a day to 800 pieces, highlighting both productivity and the intense pressure workers face.

  Sarah Gonzalez [07:20]: "The boss would be like, friend, friend, Faster, faster. And she did get fast."

• Expert Insight: Lynn Bu Rady, head of the Department of Design and Merchandising at Oklahoma State University, provides historical context on piece-rate pay, tracing its origins to the Industrial Revolution.

  Lynn Bu Rady [11:06]: "Yes. And I'm marking that down right in front of... it was very awkward. You didn’t do it all the time. You did it to set the piece rate and to set the cost of the garment."

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3. Historical Decline of the U.S. Garment Industry

The episode outlines the significant reduction in domestic garment manufacturing from 900,000 jobs in 1990 to merely 82,000 today. This decline is attributed to the outsourcing trend driven by brands seeking cheaper labor abroad.

• Factory Footprints: Today’s remaining U.S. garment factories are typically small, often unnoticed amidst other urban establishments.

  Sarah Gonzalez [15:12]: "Most of the garment factories left in the U.S.—over 76% of them are small operations with fewer than 10 workers."

• Global Competition: Countries like Bangladesh and Vietnam have become hubs for garment manufacturing due to lower labor costs and significant investments in factory infrastructure.

  Aisha Barenblatt [16:22]: "Some of these are state of the art facilities, innovative, you know, with robotics and AI and using clean technology. We don’t have that."

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4. Labor Conditions and Wage Theft

A significant portion of the episode addresses the harsh realities faced by garment workers, including wage theft and inadequate compensation despite legal protections.

• California's Legislative Effort: Four years prior to the episode, California enacted a law prohibiting piece-rate pay in the garment industry, aiming to ensure workers receive at least minimum wage.

  Maria [21:46]: "Si, hasta cuenta bien."

• Enforcement Challenges: Despite the law, many factories circumvent regulations by manipulating time-tracking systems and issuing misleading paychecks.

  Sarah Gonzalez [24:48]: "But how can they do that?"

• Real-World Impact: Workers like Maria and Pacheco often earn far below minimum wage by day, struggling to make ends meet even when producing high volumes of garments.

  Sarah Gonzalez [25:02]: "She has nothing to show for her work. No savings, no career advancements. She feels broken by it."

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5. Expert Perspectives on the Garment Industry

The episode features insights from industry experts, including Lynn Bu Rady and Aisha Barenblatt, who discuss the systemic issues and potential pathways forward.

• Lynn Bu Rady on Manufacturing Practices: Reflecting on past practices, Rady acknowledges the ethical implications and physical toll of piece-rate systems.

  Lynn Bu Rady [12:02]: "When you sew, you have one foot on a pedal, and so your weight tends to be on your other leg. Doing that for eight hours a day, 40 hours a week, perhaps, or more, that can cause issues."

• Aisha Barenblatt on Global Competitiveness: Barenblatt emphasizes the lack of investment in U.S. manufacturing infrastructure and workforce development, questioning the feasibility of revitalizing domestic garment production.

  Aisha Barenblatt [16:37]: "We don't have that. We are not gonna make iPhones in America. And we're not gonna make all our clothes in America."

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6. The Myth of Superior 'Made in America' Products

The episode challenges the consumer perception that American-made garments inherently offer better labor conditions and higher quality.

• Cost Disparity: A close examination of a $62 "Made in USA" sports bra reveals that the labor cost is a mere fraction of the retail price, debunking the notion that domestic production ensures fair wages.

  Sarah Gonzalez [13:37]: "30 cents times 13 people would mean that potentially, theoretically, workers were paid $3.90 to make this bra. Yeah. Which was selling for $62."

• Attention to Detail vs. Labor Value: While American factories may provide better working environments, the financial returns to workers remain disproportionately low.

  Aisha Barenblatt [20:04]: "There's this perception that somehow if I'm paying more or if it's a luxury item, then the workers are paid better."

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7. The Future of the U.S. Garment Industry and Policy Implications

The episode concludes by reflecting on the future prospects of the U.S. garment industry amidst global competition and legislative efforts.

• Technological Advancements: The stagnation in domestic factory innovation compared to overseas counterparts hinders the potential for growth and competitiveness.

  Aisha Barenblatt [16:37]: "Unless the US were to do the same, I cannot imagine that there would be the right incentives for anyone to invest in more U.S. factories."

• Specialized Domestic Production: Niche markets requiring specialized garments, such as military uniforms or adaptive clothing, sustain a portion of the U.S. garment industry.

  Sarah Gonzalez [18:05]: "All of the clothes for the US military have to, by law under the Berry Amendment, be made in the U.S."

• Legislative and Consumer Actions: Advocates push for stricter enforcement of labor laws and greater consumer awareness to drive meaningful change in the industry.

  Sarah Gonzalez [25:59]: "This is also why we're not using Maria's full name or the names of their employers. But the garment worker center, which fights labor violations, says this kind of thing happens all the time."

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Key Takeaways

1. Piece-Rate Pay's Double-Edged Sword: While intended to incentivize productivity, piece-rate systems often lead to wage theft and deteriorating worker conditions.

2. Outsourcing's Impact: The decline of the U.S. garment industry is largely due to globalization and the pursuit of cheaper labor abroad, leaving behind a fragmented and underfunded domestic sector.

3. Legislative Gaps: Even with laws like California's prohibition of piece-rate pay, enforcement remains weak, allowing exploitative practices to persist.

4. Consumer Perceptions vs. Reality: The assumption that "Made in America" signifies better labor practices is frequently misleading, as domestic production does not inherently guarantee fair wages.

5. Future Challenges: Revitalizing the U.S. garment industry requires substantial investment in technology, workforce development, and robust legislative frameworks to ensure ethical labor practices.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Maria on Earning:

  Maria [04:44]: "Si. Por dinero. Si."

• Lynn Bu Rady on Arbeitsbedingungen:

  Lynn Bu Rady [12:02]: "When you sew, you have one foot on a pedal, and so your weight tends to be on your other leg."

• Barbara on Labor Perceptions:

  Aisha Barenblatt [20:04]: "There's this perception that somehow if I'm paying more or if it's a luxury item, then the workers are paid better."

• Maria on Future Generations:

  Maria [28:53]: "Come on, you think they'd be crouched over all day."

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Conclusion

"Made in America" serves as a critical examination of the remnants of the U.S. garment industry, highlighting the struggles of workers like Maria and the systemic flaws in wage structures. Through personal stories and expert analysis, Planet Money underscores the complexities of domestic manufacturing, urging both policymakers and consumers to reconsider their roles in shaping ethical and sustainable production practices.

Transcript

[Sarah Gonzalez]

This is Planet Money from npr. Maria doesn't speak any English.

[Maria]

No, not a word. She says, no, no, no, nada, nada, nada.

[Sarah Gonzalez]

But she does know some like sizes.

[Maria]

She knows sizes, small, mediano, large, extra large.

[Sarah Gonzalez]

She knows label, ticket. All words related to her job manager.

[Maria]

El, Mr. El Mr.

[Sarah Gonzalez]

Okay, the the boss. You just call him mister.

[Maria]

Hola, Mrs. Mrs.

[Sarah Gonzalez]

The boss is a girl.

[Maria]

It's a Mrs. Ms. Mrs. Pacay, Mrs.

[Sarah Gonzalez]

Paella, Mrs. Over here, Mrs. Over there. She says you gotta call your boss is Mr. Or Mrs. She says. And I'm like, this is all English, Maria. Oh, Mr. Mrs. Mrs. Maria is a garment worker in the U.S. one of not that many left. She's originally from Puebla, Mexico.

[Maria]

Puebla, Camotera.

[Sarah Gonzalez]

Sweet potato city, she says, proud, nodding her head and making a little fist to herself when she says it. Maria is only 73 years old, but she has the presence of both a much older, comforting grandma and somehow also like this easily delighted kid. She has those little grandma sandals on and a little white flower tucked behind her ear. Whenever Maria sees a flower, she picks it up, puts it in her hair. You've been doing this since you were a little girl? Makes her happy. Little flower in her hair. Maria has been in the US almost 30 years and she has done the exact same job the entire time. She's a trimmer at a garment factory in Los Angeles. Half of what is left of the garment manufacturing industry in the US Is in Los Angeles trimming. And when I ask Maria what a trimmer does in a US garment factory, Maria reaches for my shirt. She tucks her hand under the bottom of my shirt, at the hem, the back of her warm fingers on my bare stomach the way only a grandma can do. That was so cute. She tucked taps all the places on my top where a piece of thread would be left behind when a hem or a seam or a stitch ends. The side of my stomach, at the side seam, my shoulder where a sleeve was sewn on, the back of my neck where the tag was sewn on. And when she's tapping me like this, it feels like something my grandma's sister would do actually like this. Bless. And when I tell Maria, she looks at me like I understand. Maria's job is to cut off all the leftover thread. That's what a trimmer does all day, crouched over, just snip, snip, snip snip, snipping loose threads. And as we're talking, Maria notices a little spot at the hem of my shirt where a tiny piece of Thread was left over, like, half a centimeter. And she goes, I guess the trimmer working on this was in a rush, but then again, they're all in a rush. Hello, and welcome to Planet Money. I'm Sarah Gonzalez. The shirt I'm wearing this day with Maria, made in Vietnam. My pants, made in Bangladesh. My bra, made in China. But the clothes that Maria works on are made in the US In Los Angeles, California. And a lot of people love the idea of making things like clothes in America. One of the Trump administration's goals is to bring manufacturing in general back to the U.S. but what people might picture when they think of a Made in America future might be different from the made in America we have now today on the show. Why does a garment industry in the US Even, even exist still? What does it look like, and can it grow? Is this a job that people want or even know how to do? When you start out as a garment worker, you often start out as a trimmer, like Maria. Then you might get trained on a sewing machine. But Maria never moved on to a machine. She likes being a trimmer, but really she just likes having a job. She's liked every job she's ever had.

[Maria]

She says, todo mi angustado por que gras dinero.

[Sarah Gonzalez]

Because you get money. Yeah.

[Maria]

Si. Por dinero. Si.

[Sarah Gonzalez]

When she first started out trimming, she was not the best. She'd nick the clothes, leave a little hole, but she'd show up with a little needle and thread set, hand, sew it real quick. You couldn't even tell the hole was there. She says, all right. And her boss loved that she could patch things up, actually. So much intelligence, he told her. But what the garment industry really prizes is speed. Speed more than anything else. And in the beginning, Maria was not so fast. She didn't know how to move the scissors, she says. So she'd do, like, 100 pieces of clothing a day. The boss would be like, friend, friend, Faster, faster. And she did get fast. Okay, so when you first started, you were doing, like, 100 pieces a day, and now you're 700. 800 pieces. 800 pieces a day is a lot. It's a lot. Okay, Mira comprehend. I brought Maria a garment that was made in the US So we could talk about the work that goes into it. It's a purple sports bra from a fancy, pricey American brand. The nice thick cardboard tag says made in the USA. It sold for $62. And it's good quality, definitely. You can feel it in the fabric. But all Maria sees is the amount of loose threads that she would need to trim on a piece like this, there's not much. She says, okay, so you want something like this. This is an easy job for you. Oh, this is like potato chips, like a piece of cake. You know, you can really make money doing the trimming on a bra like this. She says if you want to earn money, you have to do it fast. Why? Porque por p. Why does she have to work fast to get money? Maria gets paid by the piece, meaning the faster she works, the more pieces she does, the more money she makes. It's called peace rate pay and it is very common in this industry. This is why Maria likes a nice simple garment. Jeans? No. Oh, you don't like working on jeans?

[Maria]

No.

[Sarah Gonzalez]

A button up shirt. Oh, the worst. The buttons. The buttons take a while. You have to trim all the loose thread. You don't make much money when there's buttons involved. Leftover button thread just really slows you down. You get paid by the quantity you produce, right? The number of garments you get through and the pay. Well, when Maria started out as a trimmer in 1994, the pay was habilla.

[Maria]

De tre centavos de cuatro, sentavos de tres sentavos.

[Sarah Gonzalez]

3 cents to 5 cents. 3 to 5 cents per piece. That's the pay she started at. Maria would do 100 pieces a day, make $5 and she'd walk out happy, she says, feeling great about her $5 a day. Today, 15 cents. Today. Today, Maria makes 15 to 16 cents per piece. And that can be okay pay if she gets a nice easy sports bra. But if she gets, I don't know, a jacket, a jacket with buttons, working as fast as you possibly can, sometimes you do not get close to making minimum wage. Many times in her career, Maria has taken bundles of garments home, stayed up till 2, 3 in the morning, just trimming, trimming, trimming more and more pieces, trying to earn enough money to pay her bills. Like, it's so weird that they are like, yeah, sure, take the clothes here. I'm a big brand. Like, take the clothes home and do and work on it at home. I'm like, what if you get the clothes dirty at your house?

[Maria]

Oh, no, no, no, no, no.

[Sarah Gonzalez]

And she's like, oh, no, no, no. You do not get the clothes dirty. And many workers who get paid by the piece will do this. Their whole families will work on the clothes together. Now, sometimes when Maria gets a bundle of really time consuming garments, she will ask for more pay. Again, she doesn't speak English. But she makes gestures to the boss, she says, and gets by just fine. She'll be like, mister, come, come look. Look how much trimming this garment needs.

[Maria]

Okay, okay, no dos.

[Sarah Gonzalez]

He'll be like, okay, you want an extra cent? No, two cents.

[Maria]

She'll say, okay, okay, this is no problema.

[Sarah Gonzalez]

And she's gotten it. But that would get her like an extra $10 for the day. Now, piece rate pay varies depending on what you're doing. The trimming is considered the finishing touches before a garment gets ironed and sent out to a store or brand. The person on the iron in LA might get 50 cents per garment. It's more dangerous. The person who folds the clothes and packs it up, 20 cents. The person who sewed on the sleeves, did the bottom hem, maybe 12 cents.

[Lynn Bu Rady]

Oh, well, actually that's better. When I started an industry over 30 years ago, we laughed and called it a penny a pocket. Because that's what they were paid for. Every pocket they would put on in.

[Sarah Gonzalez]

The U.S. in the U.S. lynn Bu Rady is the head of the department of design and merchandising at Oklahoma State University. But back in the 90s, Lynn actually also what garment workers working for US brands would be paid like, she'd watch them on the assembly line, sewing on a pocket, sewing on a seam.

[Lynn Bu Rady]

Say you've got an 18 inch seam that you have to make. They pick up the two pieces, put it together, put it through the machine, cut the thread at the end and lay it down. 18 inch seam takes X amount of seconds to make. I would keep track of that cycle and write down the cycle, watching their movements, et cetera.

[Sarah Gonzalez]

So you're standing there with a stopwatch like, okay, she did that in 30 seconds. Oh, now 35 seconds.

[Lynn Bu Rady]

Yes. And I'm marking that down right in front of yes. It was very awkward. You didn't do it all the time. You did it to set the piece rate and to set the cost of the garment.

[Sarah Gonzalez]

So you were. Your job was to determine how many cents to pay or to charge per piece.

[Lynn Bu Rady]

I gave the data to the people. I gave the data to the people.

[Sarah Gonzalez]

We're blaming you, Lynn. We're blaming you.

[Lynn Bu Rady]

I know, I feel so terrible now, but you know, this is just something that you're taught.

[Sarah Gonzalez]

This is one of the main ways the garment industry in the US and globally has always paid pennies on the piece.

[Lynn Bu Rady]

This is a long standing tradition, at least since the Industrial Revolution.

[Sarah Gonzalez]

Piece rate pay was meant to incentivize workers to work harder.

[Lynn Bu Rady]

So the people Working harder and producing more would make more money than the people who were working slower.

[Sarah Gonzalez]

And everyone's sounds bad.

[Lynn Bu Rady]

That's a fair system. Right?

[Sarah Gonzalez]

But Lynn has some regrets about this now, and she says piece rate pay means workers often wreck their bodies working as fast as they can.

[Lynn Bu Rady]

When you sew, you have one foot on a pedal, and so your weight tends to be on your other leg. Doing that for eight hours a day, 40 hours a week, perhaps, or more, that can cause issues.

[Sarah Gonzalez]

We spoke to workers who have gotten burned, scarred, need surgery on their shoulder.

[Lynn Bu Rady]

Doing the same arm repetitions every single day, and you do hundreds of these units.

[Sarah Gonzalez]

Okay, wait, let me show you. So this is my garment that I bought.

[Lynn Bu Rady]

Okay.

[Sarah Gonzalez]

I show Lynn the purple sports bra. There's, like, a little keyhole right here.

[Lynn Bu Rady]

Oh, that's nice.

[Sarah Gonzalez]

Yeah.

[Lynn Bu Rady]

Let me see the shoulders.

[Sarah Gonzalez]

When I show this garment to Maria, she could really only tell me about the part she does, the trimming. But Lynn can tell us how many people worked on a garment like this and how much they each got paid.

[Lynn Bu Rady]

Okay, so you've got a front and a back. You've got the band along the bottom, and then you've got the piping pieces on the armhole in the neckline. It's a very basic bra.

[Sarah Gonzalez]

This is not a structured bra. There are no cups, no liner pads, no holes for the liners, no wire, nothing like that. And still, Lynn says it could have taken 13 different people to make it, each doing a different step just to sew the bra.

[Lynn Bu Rady]

I'm not talking about any of the prep work, like laying out the fabric, cutting out the fabric, bundling the pieces.

[Sarah Gonzalez]

Would, like, a generous estimate. Be like, every single person who touched this piece got no more than 30 cents for what they did. Or 40 cents.

[Lynn Bu Rady]

40 cents is probably too high.

[Sarah Gonzalez]

40 cents is too high. Okay, so we'll go with 30 cents. Oh, 30 cents times 13 people would mean that potentially, theoretically, workers were paid $3.90 to make this bra. Yeah. Which was selling for $62.

[Lynn Bu Rady]

Correct.

[Sarah Gonzalez]

And this is, like, made in America.

[Maria]

Mm.

[Sarah Gonzalez]

So this is, like, as good as it gets.

[Lynn Bu Rady]

Yep.

[Sarah Gonzalez]

This is. This is as good as it gets.

[Lynn Bu Rady]

Well, in terms of people actually being paid.

[Sarah Gonzalez]

Yeah, basically as good as it gets in terms of pay. Now, some countries, like Canada, Japan, Belgium, actually do pay garment workers more than the US Does. But generally, in countries that make most of our clothes, workers would make way, way less than $3.90 total to make a bra like this.

[Lynn Bu Rady]

Oh, pennies. It could be 50 cents in other countries.

[Sarah Gonzalez]

So why don't they do it somewhere else? Is it because they want to be a brand that says, we use American.

[Lynn Bu Rady]

Labor that's worth money? Absolutely.

[Sarah Gonzalez]

Do you think that your average consumer of this product thinks, oh, wait, that's what American labor is? It's like someone getting paid 18 cents to 30 cents to work on this?

[Lynn Bu Rady]

No, absolutely not. I think we have the image of a well run factory that's air conditioned where people get nice breaks and go home to their families at night. And it's just not that I've seen worst factories in America than I have seen overseas.

[Sarah Gonzalez]

Most of the garment factories left in the US over 76% of them are small operations with fewer than 10 workers. You'd walk by some of these and never even know there was a garment factory there. In New York City, a factory could be on top of a restaurant in Little Italy. In Los Angeles, it could be on a residential street looking like any other single story house on the block. There aren't that many factories or that many domestic garment workers. In 1990, there were like 900,000 apparel manufacturing jobs in the U.S. today, there are 82,000. The U.S. lost most of its garment industry in the 90s when brands and retailers started sourcing more and more products overseas and paying other countries to make more and more clothes. And when that happened, the US Kind of stopped investing in the factories that were left, stopped innovating. So, so walking into some of these factories today can feel like going back in time.

[Aisha Barenblatt]

It's tiny, subcontracted, overcrowded factories with these juky machines.

[Sarah Gonzalez]

This is Aisha Barenblatt. Her work running a nonprofit called Remake has taken her inside garment factories all over the US and abroad.

[Aisha Barenblatt]

Come look at the factories in South Asia, not just in China, in Cambodia, in Bangladesh. Some of these are state of the art facilities, innovative, you know, with robotics and AI and using clean technology. We don't have that.

[Sarah Gonzalez]

We have some, not many. The governments in a lot of the countries where our clothes are made today actually subsidized those state of the art fancy factories. And unless the US were to do the same, Aisha says she cannot imagine that there would be the right incentives for anyone to invest in more U.S. factories.

[Aisha Barenblatt]

This is an aging workforce. You know, who, who is going to do the skill development that's needed without investment in workforce, without investment in R D, in technology, in actual factory development and patience. It's not as though these jobs are just going to come back. Can I just say that these jobs are not gonna, we're not gonna make iPhones in America. And we're not gonna make all our clothes in America. We don't know how to like. Let's just put that out there.

[Sarah Gonzalez]

Yeah. The US Outsourced a lot of its garment making expertise a long time ago. Other countries got really good at making clothes. Not just sewing clothes, but like the pattern, making, fitting, making a bra. Not a simple sports bra like our purple bra, but like a. A legit structured support bra with cups and the whole thing. Aisha says the US doesn't really know how to make those bras.

[Aisha Barenblatt]

Now look in your closet and see where most of your bras come from. Sri Lanka, probably. It's hard. You know, it's a technical garment. I mean, the wire, the clasp, the sizing, the whole like rounded, molded part. Yeah.

[Sarah Gonzalez]

Different countries have become experts at different things. One country might be really great at making cheap pearl buttons for our clothes. Another great at working with silk. The US is apparently not known for its silk work. You really want to go to where silk production originated for good silk work. So China, the US Got better at other things like services. And economists generally believe in this way of specialization, that every country should leverage the resources available to them and only do the things that they are good at. But there is a garment manufacturing industry in the U.S. right? That's what Maria does. And if you're wondering why there is any industry left at all when clothes can be made cheaper, sometimes even better abroad, here's why. Some US brands like to have factories nearby for things like prototyping and making samples. They just want a few pieces right away. Why have it made all the way in China? And then there are clothes for the niche customer, like consumers who really want clothes that aren't shipped from across the world because they really care about emissions. For example, specialized clothes for people with physical disabilities. The US Makes a decent amount of that. And here's another big reason. Basically, all of the clothes for the US military have to, by law under the Berry Amendment, be made in the U.S. the fabric, the fiber, top to bottom, made in the usa. Because the US military doesn't ever want to have to rely on a particular country in case we ever go to war with that country or something. This is the part of the garment industry that the US government does prop up. And there's a perception, right, that made in America must mean better labor conditions, maybe better pay, good for the environment even.

[Aisha Barenblatt]

Why do you think that, Sarah? That's not true. That's absolutely not true.

[Sarah Gonzalez]

Aisha's nonprofit does these reports where they Basically grade brands on labor issues like pay and worker well being and environmental issues like the raw materials brands use and where their clothes get discarded.

[Aisha Barenblatt]

There's this perception that somehow if I'm paying more or if it's a luxury item, then the workers are paid better. And, you know, time and time again, you know, there have been scandals with sweatshops in Italy, and they've been high end brands, luxury brands. There's math out there. Something like 20 cents for a $20T shirt. But the same holds true for a.

[Sarah Gonzalez]

$120 T shirt, a $20 T shirt, a $120 T shirt. The workers likely got 20 cents to work on it. Either way, Aisha says you generally cannot buy your way into better wages for workers. There has been an effort in California where Maria and half of all US Garment workers are to raise the pay. But the thing about making, making clothes is it has historically gone somewhere else where you can pay workers less. That's after the break. So we know that Maria gets paid by the piece, but here's how they add it up. Every day, when Maria walks into work, she gets bundles of clothes that need trimming, sorted by size. And Maria keeps track of the cut, the style, and the number of pieces each in a notebook, and then figures out her total pay at the end of the week. And the Mr. Or Mrs. Will do the same accounting on their end. And sometimes their math might be five, six dollars short. And Maria will be like, no, no, no, check your math again.

[Maria]

Si hasto cuenta bien.

[Sarah Gonzalez]

Maria does feel like she has to fight for every dollar she gets working a regular average day where the garment she's working on is not so easy and not so hard. Maria might do like 500 pieces at 15 cents a piece. So $75 a day. Working full time, she could make $375 a week, $1,500 a month. If Maria was making the minimum wage in California, though, she'd make $2,640 a month. When you convert piece rate pay to hourly wages, it can add up to much less than the minimum wage. According to a Department of labor survey of garment workers in Southern California, some workers made as little as $1.58 an hour. And in California, the way that Maria is getting paid by the piece is actually not legal. It's wage theft, and Maria knows it. Maria is a member of a group called the Garment Worker center in Los Angeles. The center, and also Aisha's nonprofit, pushed for this law in California that prohibits piece rate Pay in the garment industry. It passed four years ago. So now by law, Maria is supposed to be getting paid hourly at minimum wage or better, not by the piece. But getting all the brands and factories to comply with the law is another story. Sometimes garment workers are asked to clock in and clock out every day, even though they are not paid by the hour. Factories do this to try to avoid being caught by state investigators. They'll even coach workers on what color the paycheck would be if they got a paycheck, not cash, so that they can be more believable to investigators. Our purple sports bra, the one we bought, we spoke to a worker who says they worked on those bras paid by the piece. And the company that made it was actually fined for using factories in California that were committing wage theft and issuing fake checks. And listen, many brands have worked with factories that pay garment workers per piece. According to the Department of Labor, it's been contractors and manufacturers that make clothes for Neiman Marcus, Nordstrom, Lulu's, Dillard's. So it's not just the, you know, bad, fast fashion brands doing this. It's luxury brands. It's good American brands that boast about being made with US labor, like our sports bra. And if factories get wind that maybe someone is poking around on how they're paying workers, there's this thing that can happen. The factory can close up, relocate, change their name to avoid having to back pay workers. Lynn. Lynn, who used to have the stopwatch timing workers sewing on seams. She says she saw factories do this all the time.

[Lynn Bu Rady]

If they were caught doing anything and the government came in, they would say, sorry, that company no longer exists. We, we're this owner. We're, you know, the new company now.

[Sarah Gonzalez]

But it would be the same owners, of course, different name. Yeah, yep. And how can they do that?

[Lynn Bu Rady]

Oh, it's all illegal. It is the very definition of a sweatshop. But you have to catch them at it.

[Sarah Gonzalez]

Yeah, sweatshops, it's a term people toss out a lot. But the actual definition of a sweatshop is poor working conditions, low pay, long hours. And the problem with trying to make wages and conditions and hours better is that you can risk losing the industry altogether. For example, the law in California that prohibits piece rate pay in the garment industry, the California Chamber of Commerce labeled it a job killer. People said that if California is the only state in the country that bans piece rate pay, factories and brands will just make clothes one state over where they can still pay workers by the piece. There has been a years Long push to eliminate peace rate pay nationally. But I mean, then the work could just go to another country. These jobs have already moved from China to Bangladesh and Vietnam, where the labor is cheaper. We did talk to a garment worker who has been paid hourly, not by the beast. Why is it in English, like, what you do for work?

[Maria]

What do you do for work?

[Sarah Gonzalez]

No, what do you do for work? Oh, what do you do?

[Aisha Barenblatt]

What do I do for work?

[Sarah Gonzalez]

This is Pacheco. She is a sewer in LA who has made clothes for the US Military.

[Maria]

Las camisas para los soldados.

[Sarah Gonzalez]

This is for the soldiers como camouflage. But even getting paid minimum wage, Pacheco says there is pressure to do things fast. You give everything you can physically, she says, and mentally, because you have to do really good work in some factories at least. And if you don't work fast, Pacheco says sometimes they can just take the work away from you. They might say, oh, there's actually not going to be a lot of work the next few days. We'll call you when there's more and you get the message. She says to work faster next time. Pacheco says sometimes she actually made more money when she was paid by the peace. Now, we are not using Pacheco's full name because she fears workplace retaliation. This is also why we're not using Maria's full name or the names of their employers. But the garment worker center, which fights labor violations, says this kind of thing happens all the time. And Pacheco has a lot of regrets about investing so much of her adult life in this industry. She says she. She has nothing to show for her work. No savings, no career advancements. She feels broken by it. You've lost a lot of time. What person doesn't want to move up in work and life and have more? She says, Pacheco, Maria. They say this is not a job they would want for their loved ones, like Pacheco's kids or Maria's grandkids who all graduated college.

[Maria]

Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. No esto no para no.

[Sarah Gonzalez]

Not this job for them, Maria says. Maria says she wants them to be something in life. I tell her, you're something. Yeah, I'm something, she says, but she raised her kids. They all ate. And she's proud of herself. But she cannot imagine many Americans would want this job. Como Americano, gringo.

[Maria]

No, no.

[Sarah Gonzalez]

She's like, come on, you think they'd be crouched over all day. She can actually barely contain herself at the thought. On our next episode, it's Planet Money Summer School. We'll ask how governments can use taxes to shape the economy and change our collective behavior. And a quick reminder that Planet Money plus supporters get early access to new episodes of Summer School. So if you haven't signed up yet, now is a great time to join. You also get sponsor free listening and you help keep our work going. Just go to plus.NPR.org planetmoney you can find a link in our show notes. Is AI affecting your job hunt? Maybe you're just starting out and trying to figure out which industries will still exist in a couple of decades. Maybe you're mid career and are wondering if you need to pivot. Maybe you've already been laid off because of AI. If you're thinking about this question, how should I handle my career given AI? We want to hear from you. Email [e-mail] with the subject line AI Career Question. Today's show was edited by Marianne McCune and fact checked by Sierra Juarez, who also helped with research. It was produced by Willa Rubin with help from Emma Peasley and engineered by Robert Rodriguez. Alex Goldmark is our executive producer. Also super, super extra special thanks to Shang Liu who really helped us understand why the garment industry exists in the US at all and what it looks like. I'm Sarah Gonzalez. This is npr. Thanks for listening.