Trade war dispatch from Canada

Summary

Planet Money Episode Summary: "Trade War Dispatch from Canada"

Podcast Information:

• Title: Planet Money
• Host/Author: NPR
• Episode: Trade War Dispatch from Canada
• Release Date: April 11, 2025
• Description: At Planet Money, NPR explores the forces that shape our lives, tying every topic back to the economy. This episode delves into the personal and economic impacts of the ongoing trade war between the United States and Canada, focusing on the experiences of small business owners caught in the crossfire.

---

Introduction to the Trade War

Amanda Aronczyk opens the episode by introducing listeners to Alex Rodrigues, the owner of Nut Hut, a small business in Vancouver, Canada, specializing in nuts, seeds, chocolate, and dried fruit sourced from small, sustainably run farms.

"[00:51] Amanda Aronczyk: In this episode, we are not able to consistently pronounce the word pe can. Sometimes it's pee can, sometimes it's PA con. Okay, you've been warned."

Meet Alex Rodrigues and Nut Hut

Alex Rodrigues shares insights into her business, highlighting the challenges and humor of operating a nut store with a playful name. She emphasizes her commitment to sourcing high-quality nuts from reliable suppliers.

"[01:08] Alex Rodrigues: My name is Alex, Alex Rodrigues and I have a small business here in Vancouver, Canada called Nut Hut."

Sarah Gonzalez elaborates on Nut Hut’s focus on sustainability and the difficulty in finding dependable farmers, particularly noting Alex’s selective approach to sourcing, such as her decision to exclude pine nuts due to inconsistent quality.

"[01:46] Sarah Gonzalez: Nut Hut is like a specialty shop. Alex sells just nuts, seeds, chocolate and dried fruit, mostly from small, sustainably run farms."

Discovering Native Pecans

In 2020, Alex discovers native pecans on Etsy, leading her to Shirley Rollo, a pecan supplier from Arkansas. Shirley's pecans, grown on fertile land near the Neosho River, offer superior taste and quality.

"[02:42] Sarah Gonzalez: She [Shirley Rollo] says grocery store pecans are likely coming from Georgia."

Shirley elaborates on the uniqueness of her native pecans, emphasizing their superior flavor and higher oil content compared to mass-produced varieties.

"[03:13] Shirley Rollo: That's why they taste so good, because they're native pecans and they have a much better taste and flavor and the oil content is better in them."

Impressed by the quality, Alex begins importing Shirley’s pecans into Canada, establishing a loyal and trustworthy business relationship.

"[04:14] Alex Rodrigues: I know with Shirley, every single time we've bought from her, the quality is exceptional and she, she has the paperwork done within like hours."

The Onset of the Trade War

The episode shifts focus to the geopolitical tensions as the United States imposes tariffs on imports from Canada and Mexico, prompting retaliatory tariffs from Canada.

"[05:05] Sarah Gonzalez: Because, yes, the US put tariffs on Canada, but then Canada put retaliatory tariffs on the U.S."

This tit-for-tat escalation creates uncertainty for small businesses like Nut Hut, which relies heavily on imports from the U.S.

Navigating Tariffs with Expert Help

Raymond Mass, Alex's customs broker from Advanced Global Transportation Technologies in Ontario, plays a crucial role in helping her navigate the complex tariff landscape.

"[09:34] Raymond Mass: I'm the director here. And basically in a nutshell is we account for goods coming into the country for importers."

Raymond analyzes the list of potential Canadian retaliatory tariffs and identifies that pecans are among the targeted goods, set to incur a 25% tariff effective March 4th.

"[12:08] Raymond Mass: So right now, there is only one of them that have tariffs on it, and that is pecans."

Strategic Response: Stockpiling and Preservation

Advised by Raymond, Alex initiates a strategic response by stockpiling American nuts ahead of the tariffs. This includes purchasing extra pallets of walnuts and coordinating with Shirley to secure a year's supply of pecans before the tariffs take effect.

"[13:04] Alex Rodrigues: Actually, my husband is right now at the bank. We're, like, dipping into our own personal funds to come up with enough money because I've purchased three extra pallets from my walnut farmer."

She invests in cold storage solutions to preserve the nuts, ensuring their quality despite the economic uncertainties.

"[13:54] Alex Rodrigues: I didn't know that you should."

"[13:56] Sarah Gonzalez: News you can use."

Customer Backlash and Buy Canadian Movement

As tariffs loom, a nationwide "Buy Canadian" movement gains momentum, leading some of Alex’s customers to boycott American nuts. This creates a dilemma for Alex, who values her relationships with both Canadian and American suppliers.

"[20:05] Alex Rodrigues: I'm holding like thousands of pounds worth of nuts and people are saying, well, I don't want to buy these because they're coming from the US."

Despite her efforts to support American suppliers and sustain her business, Alex faces significant challenges as customers pressure her to source exclusively from Canada.

Attempting to Bridge the Divide

In an effort to mitigate customer concerns, Alex sends out a detailed newsletter introducing her American suppliers, hoping to humanize the products and maintain customer loyalty.

"[20:39] Alex Rodrigues: If we boycott people whose values are aligned with ours and who are struggling in the same way as we are, then nobody wins, you know, like, what's the point?"

However, this strategy backfires, resulting in the highest number of unsubscribes for Nut Hut and an immediate dip in sales.

"[21:10] Alex Rodrigues: Honestly, when we sent out the newsletter, we had the largest amount of unsubscribes we've ever had."

Broader Economic and Political Implications

Amanda Aronczyk and Sarah Gonzalez explore the wider repercussions of the trade war within Canada, including efforts to remove interprovincial trade barriers. The Canadian government aims to enhance internal trade to compensate for disruptions caused by tariffs.

"[24:35] Sarah Gonzalez: To look at them, but now there is the political will. These tariffs are acting like a great unifier in Canada, bringing Canadians together against a common enemy, the U.S."

The episode highlights the complexity of distinguishing truly Canadian products in a globalized economy and the challenges consumers face in supporting local businesses while adhering to new "Buy Canadian" criteria.

Resilience and Adaptation

Despite initial setbacks, Nut Hut experiences a resurgence as new customers who prioritize local and non-American products flock to the store. Alex’s strategic stockpiling and diversified sourcing from countries like Australia and Kenya help stabilize her business.

"[28:00] Alex Rodrigues: I think yesterday I was looking at our numbers, I'm like, oh, they seem to be just fully recovered again."

Raymond and Shirley continue to support Nut Hut, helping them adapt to the evolving trade climate.

Conclusion: The Ongoing Trade War

As the episode concludes, it underscores that the trade war between the U.S. and Canada is far from over. Small businesses like Nut Hut are at the forefront of navigating these turbulent economic waters, balancing between maintaining supplier relationships and meeting shifting customer preferences.

"[28:27] Amanda Aronczyk: For now, things seem to be balancing themselves out, although the trade war has really just begun."

Alex, Raymond, and Shirley remain committed to their businesses, demonstrating resilience and adaptability in the face of international economic challenges.

---

Key Takeaways

• Personal Impact of Trade Wars: The episode vividly illustrates how global trade policies directly affect small businesses and their relationships with suppliers.

• Strategic Adaptation: Businesses must adapt swiftly to policy changes, employing strategies like stockpiling and diversifying sources to mitigate risks.

• Consumer Behavior Shifts: Nationalistic movements such as "Buy Canadian" can significantly influence consumer purchasing decisions, forcing businesses to navigate complex market dynamics.

• Economic Uncertainty: The fluid nature of trade agreements and tariffs creates an environment of unpredictability, necessitating expert guidance and flexible business models.

---

Notable Quotes

• Alex Rodrigues [04:25]: "These are all things that deeply concern me, but like, I love our farmers."

• Shirley Rollo [03:13]: "That's why they taste so good, because they're native pecans and they have a much better taste and flavor and the oil content is better in them."

• Raymond Mass [12:16]: "If I was in Alex's place, I'd be rushing as much as I can."

• Alex Rodrigues [20:05]: "I'm holding like thousands of pounds worth of nuts and people are saying, well, I don't want to buy these because they're coming from the US."

• Shirley Rollo [16:38]: "This guy changes every other day. One day he's going to do it, and the next day he's not."

---

This episode of Planet Money provides a compelling narrative on the ripple effects of international trade tensions, showcasing the resilience of small businesses and the intricate balance between global economics and local consumer behavior.

Transcript

[Edward Jones]

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[Amanda Aronczyk]

In this episode, we are not able to consistently pronounce the word pe can. Sometimes it's pee can, sometimes it's PA con. Okay, you've been warned.

[Alex Rodrigues]

This is Planet Money from npr.

[Amanda Aronczyk]

So I guess would you mind introducing yourself?

[Alex Rodrigues]

My name is Alex, Alex Rodrigues and I have a small business here in Vancouver, Canada called Nut Hut.

[Amanda Aronczyk]

How do you not giggle when you say Nut Hut?

[Alex Rodrigues]

Oh, I don't. I had years of thinking I should change the name. This is ridiculous. We have a physical location and this is probably tmi, but we have a physical location with the big word nuthut. And there are instances of guys showing up in front of our building and posing in front of the sign and taking selfies going Nut Hut.

[Sarah Gonzalez]

Yay.

[Alex Rodrigues]

All right.

[Amanda Aronczyk]

Anyhow, Alex has been running her small business in Vancouver for almost a decade.

[Sarah Gonzalez]

Nut Hut is like a specialty shop. Alex sells just nuts, seeds, chocolate and dried fruit, mostly from small, sustainably run farms. And finding those farmers is one of the main things she focuses on.

[Amanda Aronczyk]

And that is not easy. Not everyone is reliable. She still hasn't found a pine nut that she really likes. So she doesn't sell pine nuts. So when she starts working with somebody good, she is very loyal.

[Sarah Gonzalez]

And back in 2020 she makes an amazing find. She's looking on Etsy trying to find a gift for her kid. And for whatever reason, probably because she runs a nut business, she comes across a page selling what are known as native pecans and she's curious about them. So she reaches out to the seller and learns that these pecans are from a really special place.

[Alex Rodrigues]

The land that her pecans are growing on. Like it's, it's land that is designated that it can only ever be growing. These pecans.

[Sarah Gonzalez]

These native pecans grow near where Kansas Meets Oklahoma, meets Missouri, meets Arkansas. And they're sold by a woman in Arkansas named Shirley Rollo. She says that land is a great place to grow these nuts.

[Shirley Rollo]

The river there is called the Neosho river, and the ground is just fertile and it's just a perfect place for pecans to grow.

[Amanda Aronczyk]

Shirley says the pecans grow by the river on these enormous trees. Some of the trees are over 150 years old. The nuts are essentially wild.

[Shirley Rollo]

That's why they taste so good, because they're native pecans and they have a much better taste and flavor and the oil content is better in them.

[Sarah Gonzalez]

You cannot find these nuts in most grocery stores. Shirley says grocery store pecans are likely coming from Georgia.

[Shirley Rollo]

You know, I don't do Georgia pecans. I never have because I grew up on natives.

[Amanda Aronczyk]

Sorry, Georgia, please don't come at us. Shirley and I talked for hours about the history of pecans, the business of pecans, how to best get the pecan out of the shell. Shirley, is there anything else I should know about pecans?

[Shirley Rollo]

We don't have all night.

[Sarah Gonzalez]

So Shirley, the pecan supplier in Arkansas, ships Alex at Nut Hut in Vancouver, a little box of these special native pecans to try. And Alex is really impressed. Shirley's right. They taste fantastic. So Alex starts importing Shirley's pecans into Canada. And they've been working together ever since.

[Alex Rodrigues]

I know with Shirley, every single time we've bought from her, the quality is exceptional and she, she has the paperwork done within like hours. So, like just finding the people that you can count on.

[Sarah Gonzalez]

Alex's relationships with her suppliers and farmers are really important to her.

[Alex Rodrigues]

Some of the farmers, they're the same people I've been working with from the beginning, and I've just kept building relationships with them, which is why the current situation right now of heading into tariffs, I find it really like it's concerning is one thing and potentially affecting my business. You know, these are all things that deeply concern me, but like, I love our farmers.

[Amanda Aronczyk]

And now Alex and Shirley's years long business relationship has become kind of a tale of a star crossed love with tariffs coming between them.

[Sarah Gonzalez]

Because, yes, the US put tariffs on Canada, but then Canada put retaliatory tariffs on the U.S. so Alex in Canada, Shirley in the U.S. they are caught in the middle of a trade war. They've built up trust, which is a really valuable thing in business. But now it might become impossible for them to work together to import and export to each other.

[Amanda Aronczyk]

Right, because trade is this big global thing, but it is made up of individual farmers and business owners and truckers and manufacturers. And as the tariff chaos spreads, millions of people all over the world are going to have to reevaluate relationships that they have been building for years. So what is a small business person.

[Alex Rodrigues]

To do at this point? I don't know. Who knows? We don't know.

[Amanda Aronczyk]

Hello and welcome to Planet Money. I'm Amanda Aronczyk.

[Sarah Gonzalez]

And I'm Sarah Gonzalez. First, President Trump announced tariffs. Then there were retaliatory tariffs, then so called reciprocal tariffs for countries around the world. But now those have been mostly paused. Just pause. This is still an escalating trade war and Canada has had a little bit of a head start here. They started figuring out how to deal with the tariffs a couple months ago.

[Amanda Aronczyk]

Today on the show, we focus on one Canadian business to hear all about the uncertainty and the difficult decisions that civilians have to make in a war they didn't ask for. Foreign.

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[Amanda Aronczyk]

If there was no global trade, Canadians would be eating a lot of salmon and maple syrup and lentils, but basically no bananas, no avocados and no pecans because pecans need warm weather and humidity, they can't easily grow outdoors in Canada.

[Alex Rodrigues]

The only nuts that grow in Canada in quantities large enough for us, say, are hazelnuts. Walnuts grow here, but not in large enough quantities for us. So that's it for Canada and Alex Rodrigues.

[Sarah Gonzalez]

She owns the Nut Hut, right? Not the only walnuts and hazelnuts hut. She wants to offer more than just that. So she imports her nuts from all over the world. She gets her almonds from Australia, her cashews from Indonesia, macadamia nuts from Kenya.

[Amanda Aronczyk]

But importing from the U.S. obviously, that makes a Lot of sense. It is right next door. So about 40% of what Alex sells actually comes from the U.S. she gets her pistachios and her walnuts from California, and of course she gets her pecans from Shirley in Arkansas.

[Sarah Gonzalez]

So in January, hours after he was inaugurated, President Trump said that he would soon put tariffs on imports from Canada and Mexico. And Alex took notice right away. At first it was a 25% tariff on all goods coming into the U.S. then that was paused. Then it was started. Then there was an exemption for things covered by the trade deal. US, mca, the US Mexico, Canada Agreement. You know, the new nafta.

[Amanda Aronczyk]

By the way, in Canada, that agreement is called Kusma. They put the Canada first.

[Sarah Gonzalez]

Amanda is Canadian. Thank you for that clarification.

[Amanda Aronczyk]

Canada goes first.

[Sarah Gonzalez]

It has been chaos, but luckily, whenever Alex has questions about importing stuff into Canada, she has an expert that she can turn to.

[Alex Rodrigues]

I just asked Raymond.

[Amanda Aronczyk]

Uh huh, uh huh.

[Alex Rodrigues]

And Raymond is the guy who likes boom. He's back with an answer in minutes.

[Amanda Aronczyk]

Raymond Mass is Alex's customs broker. He's got a company called Advanced Global Transportation Technologies.

[Raymond Mass]

I'm the director here. And basically in a nutshell is we account for goods coming into the country for importers.

[Amanda Aronczyk]

Can't believe you said in a nutshell. Appreciate that.

[Raymond Mass]

I have a few more puns noted down.

[Amanda Aronczyk]

That's amazing. It's very hard to do this story without a lot of puns and nut jokes. Truthfully, I feel like we've been fairly restrained so far, don't you? You're welcome.

[Sarah Gonzalez]

I can't believe it. So Ray's company is in Ontario. He deals with clients who are importing into Canada, mostly from the US and.

[Amanda Aronczyk]

When the guitars or bourbon or motorcycles are nuts, get to the US border on their way into Canada, I guess for a big party, fun party, he helps to make sure that everything is properly accounted for.

[Sarah Gonzalez]

Yeah. So he calculates what the Canadian motorcycle importer has to pay. Ray sends the motorcycle importer a bill, the importer pays Ray, and then Ray sends the money to the Canada Border Service Agency. That's how it works.

[Amanda Aronczyk]

And then where does that money go?

[Raymond Mass]

So it goes into the black hole known as the government.

[Sarah Gonzalez]

Ray helps Alex navigate the tariffs as they unfold. So here's how it plays out. Once the tariffs are scheduled to kick in, Canada decided to fight back. Like you put tariffs on us, we're going to put tariffs on you. And that's usually how it goes. The tit for tat. Though recently some countries have said that they are not going to retaliate against the US like Australia.

[Amanda Aronczyk]

But Canada retaliates right away. On February 1, they put out a list of US products they might tariff. Wray pours over that list. He tries to figure out what this all means for his clients. For Alex, one thing he notices, there are some geopolitics at play. Canada's retaliatory tariffs seem to be targeted more at imports from red states than blue states.

[Sarah Gonzalez]

We asked the Department of Finance Canada whether that was what was going on. And deputy spokesperson Marie France Faucher told us in a statement that there were a number of factors that they use when deciding which goods to tariff, including, quote, maximizing pressure on the US Administration.

[Amanda Aronczyk]

Now, Alex, she imports from both red states and blue states. She gets her pistachios and walnuts from blue California and her pecans from red Arkansas. Those are the three nuts she gets from the US So she calls up Ray, her customs broker, and she says, are any of my nuts on that list? And he looks it up.

[Raymond Mass]

So right now, there is only one of them that have tariffs on it, and that is pecans.

[Sarah Gonzalez]

Ah, the pecans, pistachios and walnuts were not on the list. But Canada did put retaliatory tariffs on US Pecans, and they were going to kick in at the beginning of March. So Ray had a piece of advice for Alex.

[Raymond Mass]

If I was in Alex's place, I'd be rushing as much as I can.

[Amanda Aronczyk]

So Alex started doing just that kind of panic purchasing from the U.S. yeah.

[Alex Rodrigues]

I would call it panic purchasing or wise. It was wise. It was precautionary, because the tariffs at.

[Amanda Aronczyk]

That point were paused, but they were coming. So over the course of February, she tries to stockpile as many American nuts as she can. Each nut requires a slightly different plan. We talked to her while she was in the middle of all of this.

[Alex Rodrigues]

Actually, my husband is right now at the bank. We're, like, dipping into our own personal funds to come up with enough money because I've purchased three extra pallets from my walnut farmer. Because even though right now there's no tariff on walnuts, I don't know how this is going to go.

[Sarah Gonzalez]

Yeah, like, maybe walnuts would be hit with tariffs in April or May or never. Unclear. So first walnuts, she could source them from somewhere else, maybe Eastern Europe. But of course, she already knows and trusts her walnut farmer. So she buys a bunch of walnuts from her regular farmer, gets them shipped over the border, and puts them in cold storage.

[Alex Rodrigues]

I defer to what our farmers say and Our farmers say nuts like to be cold. All nuts like to be cold.

[Amanda Aronczyk]

All nuts like to be cold. So I should be keeping nuts in the fridge.

[Alex Rodrigues]

I didn't know that you should.

[Sarah Gonzalez]

News you can use.

[Amanda Aronczyk]

Alex says if you take one thing away from the story, it should be this. Put your nuts in the fridge. So extra pallets of walnuts purchased and put into cold storage.

[Sarah Gonzalez]

Next up, pistachios. And this one is high stakes, because if retaliatory tariffs ever do kick in for pistachios, Alex isn't sure she could afford to buy them at all.

[Alex Rodrigues]

Like, pistachios are already an expensive knot. And then having to pay another 25%, it's just. It's so expensive.

[Amanda Aronczyk]

Of course she could raise prices, but.

[Alex Rodrigues]

Could our customers afford that? I don't know. Like, I think we're all going to have to be faced with this, right? Everything is going up.

[Sarah Gonzalez]

So her ideal would be to stockpile pistachios, too, just in case.

[Alex Rodrigues]

But unfortunately for me, pistachios aren't really ready.

[Amanda Aronczyk]

So for nearly two months, she had been, in her words, lovingly pressuring her farmer Brad to get the pistachios on the road.

[Alex Rodrigues]

I've been kind of like, hey, Brad, how's it going? Hey, Brad, are they ready yet? And he's like, it just. It's taking longer.

[Sarah Gonzalez]

Yeah. It's not like food can grow faster just because tariffs might be coming. Right. So Alex just has to, like, hope, hope, hope that pistachios don't come into the line of fire while she waits.

[Amanda Aronczyk]

But the pecans. The pecans are already a marked man, a marked nut. Alex has to act fast. So she emails Shirley, her pecan supplier in Arkansas, and she's like, can you get your pecans on a truck before March 4th? That is the day when Canada's retaliatory tariffs are actually going into effect.

[Shirley Rollo]

She wanted to go ahead and get enough to do her the rest of.

[Sarah Gonzalez]

The year, a year's supply. Alex actually pays to rent some more cold storage, which is cheaper than paying a 25% tax on pecans. This is one way she can assert some control. But a lot of this is out of her hands. Like the exchange rate between the Canadian dollar and the American dollar. That's already hurting her.

[Shirley Rollo]

So she's already having to eat that. And then to have to put the 25% on top of that was something that she just didn't feel she could do. I could understand that this could be.

[Sarah Gonzalez]

Alex's last order of Shirley's special Native pecans. And for Shirley, the supplier, the tariffs mean that she's rethinking her long term plans. She says that over the past few years, she had gotten a lot of support and encouragement from the state of Arkansas to get into the export business. She attended webinars and meetings with trade groups.

[Amanda Aronczyk]

She'd even been thinking about trying to expand her pecan empire to grocery stores in Canada. But now, with all of the chaos around Trump's tariffs, Shirley says that doesn't seem like such a good idea anymore.

[Shirley Rollo]

I mean, this guy changes every other day. One day he's going to do it, and the next day he's not. Well, a normal person doesn't do business that way. You know what I'm saying? You make your decision and you stick with it. So when someone throws this curveball in here, it's just not something that makes any sense to me right now.

[Amanda Aronczyk]

Shirley's pecans arrive in Canada on March 3, the day before the tariffs go into effect. Alex has successfully stockpiled a year's supply of pecans just in time.

[Alex Rodrigues]

I just kind of hopped into speed mode with Shirley, so I'm glad that I got at least my pecans for the year.

[Sarah Gonzalez]

But as Alex is running around securing this stockpile, Canadians have been getting increasingly angry at the U.S. not only is Trump threatening to pile on tariffs, he also keeps talking about making Canada the 51st state.

[Amanda Aronczyk]

Ooh, Canadians are pissed. And this huge nationwide campaign has been taking shape by Canadian and Canadians from British Columbia to Quebec to Newfoundland, people who do not always agree on much. They have unified behind this movement to buy Canadian and boycott the US that is potentially really bad news for Nuthut.

[Alex Rodrigues]

A number of customers reached out to us and said they no longer wanted to purchase anything from the US So it's this retaliatory thing, you know, it's like, well, if they're going to, you know, charge tariffs for us, you know, we're not going to purchase anything coming out of the US So now what.

[Sarah Gonzalez]

Will happen to all of the delicious, perfect Arkansas pecans sitting in Alex's freezer? That's after the break.

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[Sarah Gonzalez]

So Alex Rodrigues has been stockpiling American nuts to get ready for the oncoming tariffs. But now she has another big problem.

[Alex Rodrigues]

I'm holding like thousands of pounds worth of nuts and people are saying, well, I don't want to buy these because they're coming from the US As a.

[Amanda Aronczyk]

Canadian, Alex totally supports the Buy Canadian movement. But as a Canadian business owner, it's a little more complicated. She's getting these emails, right, from people saying, you know, can you source your US Nuts from anywhere else? But of course, she's already bought a lot of the US Nuts. And she also thinks striking back against these small farmers and suppliers is not the right approach.

[Alex Rodrigues]

If we boycott people whose values are aligned with ours and who are struggling in the same way as we are, then nobody wins, you know, like, what's the point?

[Amanda Aronczyk]

So Alex thinks, I just need to tell the stories of my farmers and suppliers in the U.S. you know, many of them also hate what Trump's doing with tariffs. So she writes this really long, thoughtful newsletter and she says, look, I totally get wanting to cut ties with the US but let me show you who these people are.

[Sarah Gonzalez]

So she's like, this is Brad and his family who grow the pistachios you all love in California. And let me tell you a little bit about Shirley, my pecan supplier in Arkansas. Alex is thinking if I just introduce them, my customers will love them as much as I do.

[Alex Rodrigues]

Honestly, when we sent out the newsletter, we had the largest amount of unsubscribes we've ever had.

[Sarah Gonzalez]

Oh yeah. Some people did not appreciate that newsletter. And not just that.

[Amanda Aronczyk]

Did you notice a hit to your sales?

[Alex Rodrigues]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. Like, almost immediately we noticed that I was like, really?

[Sarah Gonzalez]

Yeah, really? Regular Canadians decided to retaliate against Trump's policies, too. But in effect, that meant that they had to fight against Alex, a Canadian, and her business decisions. It's a weird position for Canadians to be put in, and we wanted to hear their side of the story, how they are making these decisions about how to fight in the trade war.

[Amanda Aronczyk]

So I headed up to Vancouver, and when I got there, I started to see evidence of the trade war everywhere. Some stores had signs out front that read Canadian owned and operated. In the supermarket, there are these little labels under the, like cookies or cereal that say product of Canada. And when I went into a liquor store, all of the American liquor was covered up with black blankets because British Columbia had stopped the retail sale of American alcohol.

[Sarah Gonzalez]

Ouch. But obviously, we were most interested to see what was happening at Alex's Nut Hut. Were people boycotting American nuts, too?

[Amanda Aronczyk]

Hi, how are you? Now, when I got there, things seemed calm. I went in to meet Alex in person.

[Alex Rodrigues]

Hi, how are you?

[Amanda Aronczyk]

I'm all right. How are you? Nut Hut isn't a typical store. It's more like a little production facility. Okay, so would you give me a tour?

[Alex Rodrigues]

I would love to give you a tour.

[Amanda Aronczyk]

There you go.

[Shirley Rollo]

That is our shop.

[Amanda Aronczyk]

It was a short tour.

[Alex Rodrigues]

It was a short tour.

[Amanda Aronczyk]

Alex says they use this tiny space to process and pack the nuts.

[Alex Rodrigues]

And this is where. So we have a packing table, we have a dehydration table, and the occasional.

[Amanda Aronczyk]

Customer walks in to pick up their order.

[Alex Rodrigues]

Amy.

[Amanda Aronczyk]

Alex seems to know all of her customers by name, like Amy Robinson. Amy's here to pick up some almonds and cashews, not American nuts.

[Alex Rodrigues]

I'll take five pounds.

[Amanda Aronczyk]

And when I asked Amy how she's participating in the trade war, I learned that she is, like the most buy local person ever. She runs a nonprofit called Loco bc, which tries to encourage people to buy stuff from this province, from British Columbia.

[Sarah Gonzalez]

And she told us something interesting about how tariffs are affecting politics within Canada. First, you know, trade barriers are not just a thing between Canada and the U.S. there are also trade barriers within Canada, like between the different Canadian provinces and territories.

[Alex Rodrigues]

Like here in B.C. we have a lot of local food producers. They're not necessarily going to be on the shelves, especially interprovincially. Right. We have a lot of trade barriers that you might find them in the shelf in the states before you'd find them on the shelves in Alberta or Manitoba or wherever.

[Amanda Aronczyk]

Inter provincial trade barriers. Like, you can't go online and order Okanagan wine and have it shipped to your home in Toronto. There are a Lot of these kinds of rules.

[Alex Rodrigues]

Oh, my God. Yeah, there are a lot. Yeah. So sometimes they make sense, but I think a lot of them are just historic. And there has not been the political wealth will.

[Sarah Gonzalez]

To look at them, but now there is the political will. These tariffs are acting like a great unifier in Canada, bringing Canadians together against a common enemy, the U.S. the Canadian government says that inter provincial trade is really big, worth about 20% of the country's GDP. So they are busy removing those trade barriers. They think it could add up to $200 billion to the Canadian economy.

[Amanda Aronczyk]

And Amy, she had her nuts. Had to go.

[Alex Rodrigues]

Let me get that door for you.

[Amanda Aronczyk]

Thank you. Another customer I talked to was Elvezio Del Bianco. He had come into the Nut Hut to pick up his family's order. They are also trying to buy Canadian. Not just nuts. All the things we're trying to avoid.

[Raymond Mass]

Buying products made from the states. Made in the states.

[Amanda Aronczyk]

Made in the states.

[Raymond Mass]

Well. Well, whatever. We know it's a product. Oh. It's made there. Whatever. We can't eliminate everything or it's difficult so far, but we are. We are definitely trying to avoid that and trying to source it from other places.

[Amanda Aronczyk]

Okay. When you just did that, like, is that because people are, like, parsing it in weird ways and they're trying to figure out how to.

[Raymond Mass]

No, because I understand it's really complicated and that. And because we've been living in a globalized economy for a long time. And so what's made where and what part of it is Canadian or American or Mexican or anything else is hard to. It's hard to assess. But where it is clear to assess. We're assessing that together.

[Sarah Gonzalez]

Yeah. It's hard to tell if something is really Canadian. Like, maybe something was processed and bagged in Canada, but grown somewhere else. Or maybe it's packaged in Canada but not actually owned by a Canadian company. In those cases, is it really Canadian or is it just maple washing? Elvezio says it's not always easy to tell. Makes it hard to figure out what he wants to buy.

[Amanda Aronczyk]

I also talked to this other customer, man named Sam Shea. Alex was putting some fairly large bags on the counter for him. It looks like you're feeding a dozen people. It's not that many people. He also said he's trying to buy Canadian. Are you changing your buying habits in general? Definitely. You are? Yes. Okay. So what are you doing differently? Way less. Amazon. Almost none, if possible. Okay. Because Amazon's an American company. Yeah. So if you don't do Amazon, do you do a different service? Just trying to find Canadian companies that sell a similar or the same product, if possible. Okay, and then. But like, how come that's okay? I point to the bag of Shirley's Arkansas pecans he's buying. Well, we love Nuthut and it's just hard to find such fresh, high quality nuts other places in the city. I mean, it really doesn't exist to get it this fresh. And then are there other exceptions you'll make aside from American pecans? I mean, I try not to, but of course you have to once in a while. This was the sense I got from my time at Nut Hut. These trade offs get so complicated that in the end some people just buy the American nuts. Sam was not alone.

[Sarah Gonzalez]

Right. Because many of Nut Hut's customers were already trying to use their Canadian dollars to buy buy local or buy organic or protect the environment. Now, adding Buy Canadian only to their list is one more criteria in an already oblique world of international trade, like, it's hard to choose which issue matters most.

[Amanda Aronczyk]

And that's why for Alex at Nuthut, her business hasn't actually taken that big a hit.

[Alex Rodrigues]

I think yesterday I was looking at our numbers, I'm like, oh, they seem to be just fully recovered again.

[Sarah Gonzalez]

She did lose some customers who definitely do not want American nuts, but she actually gained new customers too, who are also trying to boycott the US because her almonds are not from California, they are from Australia and her hazelnuts are from Canada. Great for Buy Canadian.

[Amanda Aronczyk]

For now, things seem to be balancing themselves out, although the trade war has really just begun. So Alex and her customs broker, Ray and Shirley with the pecans. They are all just starting to figure out their strategy in a war they did not start. If you're new to Planet Money, welcome. We are very glad to have you here. We have a lot more stories to help you make sense of this confusing economic moment in your feed twice a week.

[Sarah Gonzalez]

Today's episode was produced by Sylvie Douglas and edited by Sally Helm. It was engineered by Sina Lofredo and fact checked by Sierra Juarez. Alex Goldmark is our executive producer. I'm Sarah Gonzalez.

[Amanda Aronczyk]

And I'm Amanda aronczyk. This is NPR. Thanks for listening.

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