When Trump met crypto

Summary

Planet Money: When Trump Met Crypto – Detailed Episode Summary

Release Date: June 27, 2025

Host: Andrea Bernstein and Ilya Merritz

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Introduction: A Bitcoin Pilgrimage Begins

At the end of May, Andrea Bernstein visits a unique establishment in Greenwich Village, New York City—a Bitcoin-themed bar named Hub Key. Unlike typical dive bars, Hub Key proudly serves as a convergence point for the cryptocurrency community. Andrea meets Mike Germano, one of the bar's operators, and Thomas Pacquiao, who shares stories about significant events tied to Bitcoin culture.

Andrea Bernstein (00:58): "I met a guy named Mike Germano. He's one of the people that runs this place. It's called Hub Key and it's not normally open for lunch, but it is today because so many people are here."

Thomas Pacquiao (02:13): "President Trump bought 50 burgers and 50 Diet Cokes and he used bitcoin to facilitate the transaction." (03:40)

Celebrating Bitcoin’s Milestones

The bar is abuzz with excitement as it marks the 15th anniversary of the first-ever use of Bitcoin to purchase pizza—a foundational moment in cryptocurrency history. The air is filled with the aroma of pizza from the back room, where patrons celebrate this milestone.

Andrea Bernstein (02:16): "There are stacks of pizza boxes in the back room where people are eating, and I can smell the pies."

Journey to Bitcoin 2025: Las Vegas Conference

The narrative shifts to Las Vegas, where thousands of Bitcoin enthusiasts are convening for the Bitcoin 2025 conference at the Venetian resort. This gathering is portrayed as a modern-day pilgrimage, with attendees from across the globe, including individuals like Frank Korva from Bitcoin Magazine, now a White House correspondent with credentials to cover the event.

Andrea Bernstein (05:25): "What happens when the President of the United States showers his love on the crypto community while becoming a crypto entrepreneur himself?"

The Trump-Crypto Alliance

A significant highlight of the episode is the evolving relationship between former President Donald Trump and the crypto community. Initially skeptical, Trump’s stance shifted dramatically following his pardon of Ross Ulbricht, founder of the Silk Road marketplace. This act, along with policy changes under his administration, has solidified his support for cryptocurrencies.

Andrea Bernstein (12:48): "The relationship between Donald Trump himself and crypto didn't really blossom until a year ago. Trump had just been convicted of 34 felony counts of falsifying business records, which he's still challenging."

Key Figures and Influential Voices

Throughout the conference, prominent figures like David Sachs, a crypto venture capitalist, and Paolo Arduino, CEO of Tether, emerge as pivotal players in bridging the Trump administration with the crypto sector. Paolo emphasizes the role of stablecoins in bringing financial inclusion to emerging markets.

Paolo Arduino (20:17): "For the hundreds of millions of people that are living in emerging markets, developing countries, that are left behind by the traditional financial system, Tether makes a particular kind of digital currency called stablecoins."

Trump’s Crypto Business Ventures

Under Trump’s leadership, the administration has launched several crypto-related ventures, including:

• Trump Meme Coin: A cryptocurrency tied to the Trump brand.
• USD1 Stablecoin: A government-backed digital dollar.
• Bitcoin Mining Operations: Enhanced infrastructure to support cryptocurrency transactions.

Additionally, Trump’s social media company raised $2.5 billion to invest in Bitcoin, highlighting his commitment to integrating crypto into various facets of his business empire.

Ilya Merritz (17:29): "Trump pardoned Ross Ulfricht. His SEC dropped investigations into crypto companies, and his Department of Justice disbanded its national cryptocurrency enforcement team."

Regulatory Shifts and Industry Impact

The Trump administration's favorable policies towards crypto have led to significant shifts in the industry. Former SEC Chair Gary Gensler resigned, and the SEC has scaled back its oversight, leading to a burgeoning environment for crypto entrepreneurs. However, this deregulation has raised concerns about investor protection and the potential for fraud.

Andrea Bernstein (26:02): "We reject the Biden administration's legacy of death by a thousand enforcement actions."

Diverse Conference Demographics

The Bitcoin 2025 conference attracts a wide array of attendees, from seasoned crypto enthusiasts to newcomers influenced by Trump’s endorsement. Stephen Daleheit, a lawyer from San Antonio, epitomizes the latter group, having recently become interested in Bitcoin after seeing President Trump’s support.

Stephen Daleheit (09:24): "I started thinking my wife might be right, though. During the presidential campaign, he said he felt the whole bitcoin thing mushrooming."

Critical Perspectives and Future Outlook

Amidst the celebration, voices like Amanda Fisher, former Chief of Staff for Gary Gensler, express concerns over the lack of regulation in the crypto space. She highlights the increased investor complaints and the potential risks posed by unregulated stablecoins like Tether, which have been linked to illicit activities.

Amanda Fisher (27:21): "It gets her down to see regulation and oversight dismantled. The whole point is to protect investors."

Andrea and Ilya engage with various conference participants, uncovering the complexities of the Trump-crypto alliance and its implications for the broader financial ecosystem. They discuss the psychological value of money, the social networks formed around cryptocurrencies, and the ideological underpinnings that fuel the movement.

Climactic Speeches: Michael Saylor and Ross Ulfricht

The conference culminates with two major speeches:

1. Michael Saylor’s "21 Ways to Wealth": Saylor passionately advocates for selling all non-crypto assets to invest in Bitcoin, emphasizing its potential to outpace traditional investments.

   Michael Saylor (29:18): "Sell everything you have. Buy Bitcoin. You have cash flow, you buy Bitcoin."

2. Ross Ulfricht’s Redemption Speech: Freed by Trump, Ulfricht addresses the audience, linking his personal redemption to the broader liberation promised by Bitcoin. His speech underscores the narrative of crypto as a tool for financial freedom and individual empowerment.

   Ross Ulfricht (30:24): "Bitcoin doesn't work without freedom. Bitcoin's power comes from the fact that any one of us can mine if we choose to. Any one of us can send bitcoins to anyone else. We are all on equal footing with bitcoin. With bitcoin, we are all free."

Final Reflections and Conclusions

As the conference concludes, Andrea and Ilya reflect on the intertwined destinies of Trump and the crypto community. While the administration's support has propelled crypto into the mainstream, it has also sparked debates about regulatory balance and the ethical implications of integrating political figures with financial innovations.

Ilya Merritz (31:24): "I just want to know what is. I'm just curious to see."

The episode wraps up with a contemplative tone, acknowledging the transformative yet contentious journey of Bitcoin under Trump’s influence.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps:

• Thomas Pacquiao (03:40): "President Trump bought 50 burgers and 50 Diet Cokes and he used bitcoin to facilitate the transaction."

• Andrea Bernstein (12:48): "The relationship between Donald Trump himself and crypto didn't really blossom until a year ago."

• Paolo Arduino (20:17): "Tether makes a particular kind of digital currency called stablecoins."

• Amanda Fisher (27:21): "The whole point is to protect investors."

• Michael Saylor (29:18): "Sell everything you have. Buy Bitcoin."

• Ross Ulfricht (30:24): "With bitcoin, we are all free."

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Key Takeaways

1. Trump's Shift to Crypto: Former President Donald Trump's evolving relationship with cryptocurrencies, marked by supportive policies and personal investment, has significantly influenced the crypto landscape.

2. Regulatory Changes: Under Trump's administration, regulatory bodies like the SEC have reduced their oversight on crypto, fostering a more favorable environment for crypto businesses but raising concerns about investor protection.

3. Crypto as a Social Movement: Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies are portrayed not just as financial instruments but as symbols of freedom and resistance against traditional financial systems.

4. Diverse Influences: The conference highlights a mix of veteran crypto enthusiasts and newcomers inspired by political endorsements, reflecting the growing mainstream acceptance of digital currencies.

5. Ethical and Practical Concerns: While the administration’s support has boosted the crypto industry, it also brings ethical questions regarding conflicts of interest and the potential for increased fraud and misuse.

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Conclusion

"When Trump Met Crypto" delves deep into the symbiotic relationship between the cryptocurrency community and the Trump administration. Through vivid storytelling and firsthand accounts, Andrea Bernstein and Ilya Merritz explore how political support can propel a financial movement into the mainstream, while also examining the challenges and controversies that come with such alliances. This episode offers listeners a comprehensive understanding of the current crypto landscape, shaped by powerful political forces and driven by a quest for financial autonomy.

Transcript

[Ilya Merritz]

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[Andrea Bernstein]

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[Ilya Merritz]

That there's a lot more to Square than meets the eye. What started as a little white card reader is now being used to rapidly scale, build loyal followings, cover cash flow gaps, and expand to new locations. Wherever your business is growing, Square meets you there. Go to square.com go NPR to learn more.

[Andrea Bernstein]

This is Planet Money from NPR. Back at the end of May, I went to a bar in Greenwich Village in New York City.

[Ilya Merritz]

Hi, pleasure to meet. Welcome, welcome, welcome. It's a bitcoin bar where you can buy an actual beer with virtual currency. This is a dive bar.

[Andrea Bernstein]

Yeah, but it looks really nice.

[Ilya Merritz]

I would say we're a luxury dive bar. So, you know, dive bars are approachable places for everybody.

[Andrea Bernstein]

You know, the first person I meet is a guy named Mike Germano. He's one of the people that runs this place. It's called Hub Key and it's not normally open for lunch, but it is today because so many people are here.

[Ilya Merritz]

We're a little extra special Italian back there because it's pizza day, the most important holiday in the bitcoin calendar today.

[Andrea Bernstein]

Everyone is particularly jazzed because it's the 15th anniversary of the very first time someone used bitcoin to buy a thing. And that thing was pizza. There are stacks of pizza boxes in the back room where people are eating, and I can smell the pies.

[Ilya Merritz]

But there is another reason why all these people are at the bar on this particular day. They're kind of like pilgrims stopping at this weigh station on a journey to a much bigger gathering. One guy even came here from Singapore. Their destination, the most important event of the year for bitcoiners, the Bitcoin 2025 conference in Las Vegas.

[Andrea Bernstein]

And appropriately for a pilgrimage, there's a shrine.

[Ilya Merritz]

You know, if you walk into the. Right. There's kind of our shrine to all the bitcoin culture over here. Yeah.

[Andrea Bernstein]

Okay, so what are we looking at?

[Ilya Merritz]

So once again, here's our shrine.

[Andrea Bernstein]

Behind the bar, there are shelves full of bitcoin memorabilia. There's a package of orange Tic Tacs and a little orange phone sized computer that mines bitcoin. And a misfits action figure.

[Ilya Merritz]

I like the nesting dolls right in.

[Andrea Bernstein]

The center of the display, there are brightly painted Russian dolls that happened to.

[Ilya Merritz]

Have all the people gone to jail for fraud in the crypto world. So you might remember the largest one there. That was the founder of ftx.

[Andrea Bernstein]

It's Sam Bankman Fried, the cryptocurrency exchange founder who was convicted of fraud and money laundering. He's fighting the charges. They all are.

[Ilya Merritz]

Then it's Alex Mashinsky from Celsius and the little one there that kicked it all off. In this bar and in the bitcoin world and crypto in general, outlaws can be heroes. The Terra Luna disaster.

[Andrea Bernstein]

Bitcoiners have long seen themselves as a liberation force and they think governments and banks are in their way of. So it was a big day about nine months ago when a presidential candidate showed up here to do something no other major presidential candidate had done before. While we're standing right here where it took place, next to the bitcoin shrine, can you describe, like, what happened when.

[Ilya Merritz]

When President Trump visited? Yeah.

[Andrea Bernstein]

So the other guy who runs the bar jumps in. His name is Thomas Pacquiao.

[Ilya Merritz]

President Trump bought 50 burgers and 50 Diet Cokes and he used bitcoin to facilitate the transaction.

[Andrea Bernstein]

Right, right here, Right. Right where we are, where you're sitting.

[Ilya Merritz]

Yeah. It was a surreal day.

[Andrea Bernstein]

Nine months later. People at this bar are happy because Trump is smiling on crypto. They're happy because bitcoin has just hit an all time high. And they're happy because they're headed to Las Vegas. Out on the street. Before I leave, Pubkey, Mike introduces me to Frank Korva.

[Ilya Merritz]

He's actually the best journalist ever in the space and covers the White House. So this is the exact person you should.

[Andrea Bernstein]

You were the one who just got your White House credentials. Frank is with Bitcoin magazine and he now has a hard pass to cover the White House. He'll also be on the pilgrimage to Vegas where he'll be livestreaming the conference. And with just a few days to go, he's thinking about how this year will be so different from all the previous ones.

[Ilya Merritz]

So bitcoin is the separation of money and state. So it feels a little bit weird to have so many representatives from the state, quote, unquote. There's. We have a number of high level speakers.

[Andrea Bernstein]

It's the speaker list that got us interested. There are so many big Trump world names, from Vice President J.D. vance to two of the president's sons, to the son of the U.S. commerce secretary, to one of the most famous crypto outlaws newly freed by Trump. All of them headed for Vegas.

[Ilya Merritz]

Hello and welcome to Planet Money. I'm Alexi Horowitz. Ghazi reporter Andrea Bernstein and her colleague Ilya Merritz have been covering Trump and his businesses for years. So we sent them to the Venetian resort to join these thousands of pilgrims traveling to Las Vegas to hear from their newest leaders.

[Andrea Bernstein]

What happens when the President of the United States showers his love on the crypto community while becoming a crypto entrepreneur himself?

[Ilya Merritz]

Today on the show, three whirlwind days in Las Vegas where crypto convicts are cheered with oversight and regulation, are booed, and the separation of crypto and state no longer applies.

[Andrea Bernstein]

Plus, the inside story of Trump's love affair with crypto.

[Ilya Merritz]

What we saw in Vegas is not going to stay in Vegas. So Andrea and I fly to Las Vegas. We set ourselves up in the vast windowless conference hall of the Venetian, and right away we encounter a strangely high number of people wearing orange. Orange neckties, orange suits, orange bikini tops. Orange, it turns out, is the color of bitcoin. People who go all in on bitcoin, talk about getting orange pill. Then there's another thing we notice. I see all this, like, kind of crypto related art on the right. It's an art exhibit that I am still thinking about today because of how clearly it shows the way outlaw culture is baked into crypto culture. I'm standing near some pictures of world currencies on fire when I meet a guy named Majid Zafer.

[Andrea Bernstein]

Did you see the Ross Albright auctions?

[Ilya Merritz]

No.

[Andrea Bernstein]

Those are really cool.

[Ilya Merritz]

He was the founder of Silk Road. This is the thing I'm still thinking about. An art auction to raise money for Ross Ulbricht. And because Ulbricht was convicted and sent to prison 10 years ago for operating a dark web marketplace where illegal drugs were bought and sold anonymously. It was called Silk Road, and the whole thing ran on bitcoin.

[Andrea Bernstein]

He was given two life sentences. The prosecutor called him a drug dealer and criminal profiteer who exploited people's addictions and contributed to the deaths of at least six young people.

[Ilya Merritz]

Ulbricht was separately charged with attempted witness murder. That case was dropped after his two life sentences were upheld in the Supreme Court.

[Andrea Bernstein]

But on President Trump's first full day in office this year, he pardoned Ross Ulbricht. And in the program for this bitcoin conference, Ulbricht's picture is front and center. Ross Ulbricht, freedom fighter, right next to J.D. vance, Vice President.

[Ilya Merritz]

And now I'm looking at a whole wall of Ulbricht's prison Paraphernalia that's up for auction. ID cards, a sweatsuit, some paintings he did. And my new buddy Magid is telling me he's willing to overlook Ulbricht's crimes.

[Andrea Bernstein]

I mean, if you think about most.

[Ilya Merritz]

People that freed any revolution, right, Most.

[Andrea Bernstein]

Of them spent some time in jail.

[Ilya Merritz]

You don't have any misgivings. I mean, he got two life sentences. You know, here there's good and bad for anyone.

[Andrea Bernstein]

That's than anything big, right?

[Ilya Merritz]

For Majid, it's about what Ulbricht did for bitcoin. He showed how it could work in a real marketplace.

[Andrea Bernstein]

He was one of the first people to really bring commercial legitimacy to the technology.

[Ilya Merritz]

We went back to the Ulbricht wall a few times and no one we talked to objected to this convicted criminal being celebrated. And it occurred to me that Ulbricht's reversal in fortune tracks with a broader turnaround. Maybe the whole crypto world, its history of fraud and swindles, was being pardoned.

[Andrea Bernstein]

There are all kinds of people at this conference, families with strollers, high end executives, influencers, people who are just getting interested. Some of them because of President Trump's enthusiasm. Like Stephen Daleheit. He's a lawyer From San Antonio, 61, tall, goes by Esteban sometimes because he spent so much of his life in Mexico. He's been watching bitcoin for a while.

[Ilya Merritz]

My wife is into it big time. She's been talking about it for years now. And I'm the one that's like, oh, yeah, yeah. I mean, that's just like pie in the sky.

[Andrea Bernstein]

He started thinking his wife might be right, though. During the presidential campaign, he said he felt the whole bitcoin thing mushrooming.

[Ilya Merritz]

And I'm saying if Trump gets elected, it's going to go up. But I did my research, I got the crypto app and then I got stuck with the whole wallet thing. For whatever reason, it is a well known and long standing problem that buying bitcoin is just not so simple even today. So he didn't buy any and he watched the price go up. Oh, man, 107,000. I could have bought one at 60. Some odd thousand, almost 70,000.

[Andrea Bernstein]

He put the whole idea of buying bitcoin aside for a while, but then it came up again. Recently, Stephen was watching a personal finance YouTube channel and an ad came on.

[Ilya Merritz]

Was actually advertising this conference and I just said, what the heck? And I'm like, I'm just going to go over there and get into it. How long ago was this? This, this was two days ago. That you made this decision. Yeah. It's overnight incredible. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Just like that. So he's been here not even one whole day, and I hear him becoming convinced bitcoin is on the rise. I mean, the whole thing. Because it's not really just a currency. That's a movement and it's an ideology as well. Talking with Stephen, it hit me how much the value of money is psychological. We believe in US Dollars because we believe the US Government stands behind them. It's actually one of the few things almost all Americans still agree on. And millions of people believe in bitcoin because millions of people believe in bitcoin. Having the support of the US President could draw in a lot more people if Trump had lost the election. Oh, yeah. Would you be getting into bitcoin? Probably. That's a really hard question. We say our goodbyes for now. Could I follow up with you later, though? How can I find you? Hello and welcome, everyone, to the Bitcoin magazine news desk, presented by Mara at Bitcoin 2025.

[Andrea Bernstein]

The marquee speeches of the conference were all taking place on the main stage. And one of the things that we came here for was to listen in to what all these top Trump world people would say to this very friendly crowd.

[Ilya Merritz]

Of course, the new guy from the Washington press corps was there at the anchor desk right outside the door. Frank Corvo, White House correspondent for Bitcoin magazine.

[Andrea Bernstein]

Frank had wondered back at the bitcoin bar what it would mean for bitcoin to get such a firm embrace from the establishment. During a break in his anchoring duties, he said, now that we're here. The hug seemed even tighter than he'd expected.

[Ilya Merritz]

A lot of politicians are here. I think this idea that bitcoin is no longer a countercultural thing, it is now just a part of the mainstream. It's part of the political process.

[Andrea Bernstein]

The vibe has shifted over the next three days. The conversations Frank and Stephen from Texas and all of us heard on stage were surprisingly unguarded. And in bits and pieces, the speakers told us the story of a kind of a romance between the Trump world and the crypto world. It was like a rom com. Like at first they hated each other, or at least the way Donald Trump Jr. Told it during an interview on stage, they were not interested.

[Ilya Merritz]

What I realized was, you know, I wasn't an early adapter like so many of the people in the room that were here in 2012 or something like that. We were later, we were, you know, real estate guys. We were Hard assets. We built buildings back then. President Trump wasn't into crypto either. During his first term, he wrote on Twitter, I am not a fan of bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies, which are not money. He said their value was based on thin air and that unregulated crypto assets could facilitate unlawful behavior, including drug trade.

[Andrea Bernstein]

But it wasn't long before the Trump family began to turn around on crypto. As Don Jr. Told the story that happened after January 6th. Donald Trump had been suspended from social media, and his family business was dropped by some banks after he encouraged the attack on the Capitol. On stage, Don Jr. Complained bitterly about how mistreated and censored the family felt.

[Ilya Merritz]

We're getting debanked, we're getting de insured, we're getting de everything. The Trumps never lost access to banking entirely, but still, crypto seemed so inviting. When did you get orange pilled? Honestly, during that same period of time. I mean, I think there's so many natural ties between free speech, crypto, bitcoin.

[Andrea Bernstein]

The sons were in, but their father, not yet.

[Ilya Merritz]

Did you orange pill your dad? Well, yeah, I think, honestly, between, you know, my brother and I, you know, probably, definitely, you know, did some of that.

[Andrea Bernstein]

According to the story unfolding at the conference, the relationship between Donald Trump himself and crypto didn't really blossom until a year ago. Trump had just been convicted of 34 felony counts of falsifying business records, which he's still challenging.

[Ilya Merritz]

It was right on the heels of that whole sham trial that they put the president through.

[Andrea Bernstein]

A crypto venture capitalist named David Sachs told the story of Trump's famous first serious flirtation with the crypto world. During a conversation on the main stage, Sachs said it was at a fundraising dinner he held in San Francisco for trump.

[Ilya Merritz]

This was June 6th of last year. I remember that date, because that happens to be D Day. Sack said about a third of the people he invited were crypto entrepreneurs. And up until this point, Trump and crypto people hadn't really had the chance to talk to each other much. And no one knew exactly how he would be received. But at this very nice dinner in San Francisco, there was a spark. And I think it was maybe one of the first times that he had heard this message about how unfairly that, you know, all the crypto people are being treated by the Gensler sec.

[Andrea Bernstein]

The name Gary Gensler came up a lot. He was Biden's appointee to run the securities and Exchange Commission. And when anyone on stage would mention him, people would boo the Crypto world hates Gensler for what they see as years of regulatory overreach. And in Sachs's story about the fundraising dinner, his guests finally had the chance to explain to Trump how, in their minds, there was a war on crypto.

[Ilya Merritz]

And so I think he really understood the plight of the. Of the crypto community because they were being subjected to the same kind of unfair persecution that. That he was.

[Andrea Bernstein]

And that's when their gripes became Trump's gripes too. According to Sachs and the others on stage with him just a month later, Trump told bitcoiners, if elected, he'd fire Gary Gensler.

[Ilya Merritz]

So this was a moment where Trump and crypto discovered they were a match made in heaven. Trump got so much applause for that.

[Andrea Bernstein]

Line he repeated himself on stage at the bitcoin conference. We also heard a parallel story, a really important one that I hadn't quite understood before. Basically, at this moment that Donald Trump started courting crypto votes on the campaign trail. He and his sons were starting crypto businesses.

[Ilya Merritz]

And at first, as Don Jr told it, there was a lot to figure out. I'm a late ish adapter, and when I'm calling my friends who've been doing it forever, like, okay, how do I.

[Andrea Bernstein]

Do this again so I don't send.

[Ilya Merritz]

Someone a fairly large piece of money. And don't get it wrong, you know, they figured it out. And pretty soon, the Trump family was all over crypto. They launched a crypto financial services company. They started a Trump meme coin, a first lady meme coin, a stablecoin, a bitcoin mining operation.

[Andrea Bernstein]

And even while we were all at the conference, there was another new thing. Trump's social media company announced it was raising $2.5 billion from investors to buy bitcoin.

[Ilya Merritz]

That's a pretty big deal, right? I mean, you know, there's not a lot of people. There's not a lot of people that have done something that big or shown that level of commitment. And, you know, the fake news is going to fake. They're out. During the three days of interviews and talks, we listened to a parade of administration officials lay out all that Trump has done for cryptocurrency since he won the election and became president.

[Andrea Bernstein]

Gary Gensler resigned. Trump pardoned Ross Ulbricht. His SEC dropped investigations into crypto companies, and his Department of Justice disbanded its national cryptocurrency enforcement team. Trump set up a strategic bitcoin reserve, like a pile of gold. But bitcoin. David Sachs, who threw the San Francisco fundraising dinner for Trump he's now the White House crypto and AI czar.

[Ilya Merritz]

Trump also invited all the crypto and bitcoin bigwigs to the White House. The titans, the donors, the Cabinet secretaries and regulators. They all sat down together in the White House state dining room.

[Andrea Bernstein]

All of these moves have been very, very good for this crowd, and they've been good for the Trump family.

[Ilya Merritz]

We asked the White House about this, and they sent a statement. President Trump is dedicated to making America the crypto capital of the world and revolutionizing our digital financial technology. His assets are in a trust managed by his children, and there are no conflicts of interest. The Trump Organization did not respond to our request for comment.

[Andrea Bernstein]

In the past year, according to Forbes, crypto has added $1 billion to Donald Trump's $6 billion net worth. It will soon be more, Forbes says, possibly billions more.

[Ilya Merritz]

So that's how Trump is profiting from crypto. When we return, how the crypto industry is profiting from Trump. Wandering the halls of this bitcoin conference is a little like how I picture Burning Man. This community that comes together IRL only once a year with zany costumes and DJs and all these different places to make a friend or just chill out. By day two, I start to suspect everyone has swallowed the orange pill. Steven, the guy from San Antonio who's here dabbling with the idea of becoming a bitcoiner, he's been wowed by the speeches so far. What's his name? The Italian guy who's the owner of Tether. Never seen him before, never heard about him before. I'd kind of just heard the word tether. It was really interesting for me to listen to him.

[Andrea Bernstein]

Paolo Arduino is the CEO of Tether, and he spoke about bringing crypto to the masses around the world.

[Ilya Merritz]

The digital dollar. For the hundreds of millions of people that are living in emerging markets, developing countries, that are left behind by the.

[Andrea Bernstein]

Traditional financial system, Tether makes a particular kind of digital currency called stablecoins. Unlike bitcoin, stablecoins are tied to the value of something more conventional, like the US Dollar.

[Ilya Merritz]

We started to realize that money is the ultimate social network. I think bitcoin is actually the ultimate social network. When Paolo wasn't on stage, he found a quiet hallway to talk with me. You want to sit? Stand. Okay, then I can, I guess, then. Paolo is 40 years old. He wears all black, and when he moves around the conference, he has two muscly guys also in black, clearing a path for him so he can type on his phone as he walks. Vegas I must say, is too much for me. And if on the stage the Trumps talked about how good the crypto romance is for them, what I got from Paolo is a sense of what the romance is doing for a business like his. Paolo told me he had never once been to the US until this past March. Actually, this year in 2025 was the first year I came to the United States, and he started big. On March 6, he posted an image from his visit to the White House and another from outside the Capitol. We have some good conversations with the Trump administration. Never met the President himself. We have good conversations with lawmakers on the Senate and representatives of the House. President Trump has been urging Congress to pass a bill lightning fast to bring stablecoin like Tether into the mainstream. And Trump has his own stablecoin called USD1.

[Andrea Bernstein]

People who study the financial system worry stablecoin could introduce all kinds of risk. And Tether has been used by drug runners and to evade sanctions. The company says it's now working on these issues with US Law enforcement.

[Ilya Merritz]

So Tether has connections in Washington. Another one is through the company's financial partner, Cantor Fitzgerald. When they first started working together, Cantor's chairman was Howard Lutnick, and he is now Trump's Commerce Secretary. Paolo says he and Howard don't talk anymore. There could be a conflict of interest.

[Andrea Bernstein]

But on stage at the conference, Paolo appeared with another Lutnick.

[Ilya Merritz]

I'm joined here by my friend Brendan, the new chairman of of counterfeit Gerald at 27. Tell us all about that.

[Andrea Bernstein]

Howard's son, Brandon Lutnick took over for his dad as the bank's chairman.

[Ilya Merritz]

It's really a blessing to be here, especially on stage with you, Paolo. You know, you and I have really had a blossoming friendship.

[Andrea Bernstein]

He's wearing a well fitted suit and bookish glasses.

[Ilya Merritz]

I owe a lot to you and the whole Tether team really orange pilling me. So that's the talk that impressed Stephen Daleheid. He told me after watching Paolo, he sees how useful stablecoins like Tether can be, both abroad and right here at home. That blew my mind, right? And that is all Paolo. Here's the thing, though. Tether's coins are not dollars. They're not backed by the US government. But with so many friends in high places, you could get that impression.

[Andrea Bernstein]

So many of the people on stage at this conference are big winners under this new crypto regiment. Not a lot of people are talking about who loses because they're all here to try to win. But while we were saving our Seats for Vice President J.D. vance's speech. I met a guy who made it clear for me how completely the odds can be stacked against people who are not on the inside. You're sitting next to me. I'm gonna interview you.

[Ilya Merritz]

That's my payment?

[Andrea Bernstein]

Yeah, that's your payment. His name is Will. His day job is at an investment advisory firm. He didn't want to say his last name because he was worried being connected with bitcoin could hurt him in his work life. I met a lot of bitcoiners who felt like this. So Will from Salt Lake City, and I got to talking about meme coins. They're collectibles, like baseball cards, but digital. Did you ever buy a Trump meme coin?

[Ilya Merritz]

No. I went out to dinner that night, so if I had been in front of my computer, yeah, I may have picked up a little bit, but by the time I got back, it was already worth 20, 30 billion, and, nah, it already had its run.

[Andrea Bernstein]

Took me a second to understand he was talking about the night Trump announced his meme coin was for sale. It was at the crypto ball just before Trump became president. By the time he got back from.

[Ilya Merritz]

Dinner that night, it was pretty clear that some people were set up to make quite a bit on that. It's almost. Most meme coins are actually set up like that. The insiders that have the ability to see and pump it themselves, they're gonna make the most, which is fine, whatever.

[Andrea Bernstein]

If you're selling a stock or a bond regulated by the US Government, you can't just secretly tip off your friends. That would be insider trading. But meme coins aren't regulated this way, and the Trump administration has said they won't be. Do you think there's anything strange or unusual about that? He's the regulator and like the chief booster and also running his own crypto business.

[Ilya Merritz]

Obviously, it's a very gray line, which obviously, this president has never really shied that far away from gray lines, if not crossing them directly, but saying, it's good to be the king. Right.

[Andrea Bernstein]

Finally, Vice President J.D. vance walks up with a little.

[Ilya Merritz]

Thank you. Thank you all. First of all, he talks about how proud he is to be at the conference and says crypto finally has a champion in the White House. We reject the Biden administration's legacy of death by a thousand enforcement actions.

[Andrea Bernstein]

And he slams the Biden official who resigned from the SEC before Trump took office. This is the guy who's taken the most punches at this conference.

[Ilya Merritz]

We reject regulators, and we fired Gary Gensler and We're going to fire everybody like him. By the end of day two, I was desperate for some perspective from outside the bubble of this conference. So I sat down on the carpeted floor of the rotunda and made a phone call to someone who has definitely not been orange pilled. I was chief of staff for Gary Gensler, who was the chair of the securities and Exchange Commission during the Biden administration. Her name is Amanda Fisher.

[Andrea Bernstein]

So I don't speak for Gary, but.

[Ilya Merritz]

I can say that he would likely welcome their disapproval because he's proud of the work at the sec. Amanda told me one reason crypto was a priority for Gary Gensler and the SEC was because it seems to be causing so many people, so many problems. Crypto represents just 2 to 3% of investment assets worldwide, but it was 20% of the complaints they got from investors. She told me. Why do you think that is that that people are willing to, like, overlook a lot of problems that this industry has had?

[Andrea Bernstein]

I think that there are a lot.

[Ilya Merritz]

Of people who rightly feel like work doesn't necessarily translate to wealth these days. And there is a ton of marketing around the cryptocurrency industry that promises people that if they're just clever enough, they can be rich. Amanda told me it gets her down to see regulation and oversight dismantled. The whole point is to protect investors. The only solace I take, and this is not much, because I don't want.

[Andrea Bernstein]

To see people get hurt, but I.

[Ilya Merritz]

Do think eventually this type of manic hype that is unsupported by real value cannot sustain itself.

[Andrea Bernstein]

I just hope that the bubble burns.

[Ilya Merritz]

Before the collateral damage is too bad.

[Andrea Bernstein]

The very last afternoon of the conference, I meet up one more time with Stephen Daleheit. We get to talking, and then we realize we need to go catch the final speakers.

[Ilya Merritz]

I know, I know, I know, I know, I know.

[Andrea Bernstein]

Are you gonna go?

[Ilya Merritz]

Yes. I just want to know what is. I'm just curious to see.

[Andrea Bernstein]

For three days, the exposition hall has been so, so loud. But now it's that feeling you get before a big storm comes. Through the stillness when all the air washes out. Everyone at the entire conference is packing in to see what's gonna happen on the main stage. I feel like maybe all the seats are full. Steven and I have to sit on the floor, floor by the wall. We're here for the last two big draws.

[Ilya Merritz]

Rockstar Ovation, huh? The first is a bitcoin evangelist named Michael Saylor. His speech is 21 Ways to Wealth. His message, sell everything you have. Buy Bitcoin. You have cash flow, you buy Bitcoin. You have treasury assets, you buy bitcoin. Sell your stocks, your bonds, your property, you have a house. It doesn't have a mortgage on it. Okay, well, good for you.

[Andrea Bernstein]

It's been a long three days, but Saylor absolutely captures this crowd.

[Ilya Merritz]

And I look forward to seeing you.

[Andrea Bernstein]

Next year after it's over. Stephen leans to me and says that 21, the number of items on Sailors list is a multiple of seven, which is a significant number in the Bible.

[Ilya Merritz]

I think people choose those numbers, you know, so people give seven a special significance. Right? So kind of funny finish on 21, not on 20, not on 22. And now it's time for the final speech of this whole event. A tall, slender man walks on stage, beaming, blinded by the stage lights, unable to get a word in. He paces back and forth. He waves to his supporters. Hey, gang. So I'm not in a prison cell anymore.

[Andrea Bernstein]

It's Ross Ulbricht, the man Trump freed from his two life sentences for running a dark web narcotics bazaar, Silk Road.

[Ilya Merritz]

Bitcoin doesn't work without freedom. Bitcoin's power comes from the fact that. That any one of us can mine if we choose to. Any one of us can send bitcoins to anyone else. We are all on equal footing with bitcoin. With bitcoin, we are all free.

[Andrea Bernstein]

What I hear Russ Ulbricht saying to his audience is that his redemption is their redemption. Trump has brought him back to life.

[Ilya Merritz]

When I didn't know if I would ever get out from behind those thick iron bars. You even got President Trump to see that bitcoin is the future. Yeah, you did that.

[Andrea Bernstein]

As the speech wraps, applause ricochets through the hall. The exit music swells, and Stephen leans over to me again.

[Ilya Merritz]

Like, for him to kind of just mention that, you know, what he did was wrong, kind of, you know, but maybe it wasn't the. The right place to say that. I don't know. I don't want to judge either. So I guess he's home, he's happy, everybody's happy. And I think hopefully, you know, his second chance is not. What is it? I. I wish him well, you know. Yeah.

[Andrea Bernstein]

Thank you so much, Steve.

[Ilya Merritz]

Oh, anytime, Anytime, Anytime, anytime, anytime. The last time I checked in with Stephen, he told me he hasn't bought bitcoin. Not yet. It's become a little too expensive. Today's episode was produced by Sam Yellow Horse Kessler and fact checked by Lilla Rubin. It was edited by Marianne McCune. It was engineered by Maggie Luthar. Alex Goldmark is Planet Money's executive producer.

[Andrea Bernstein]

Special thanks to Meg Kramer, Amanda Wick, Tanya Kotzareva, Katherine Sullivan, and Adam Zarazinski. I'm Andrea Bernstein.

[Ilya Merritz]

And I'm Ilya Merritz. This is npr. Thanks for listening. This message comes from Meta AI. Meta AI is the personal AI to help you with whatever you need. Not only is Meta AI now an app, but it's also on the apps you already Love. Facebook, Instagram, WhatsApp, and Messenger. Plus the Ray Ban Meta glasses. It's easy to access wherever you are throughout the day. Experience Meta's newest AI that's tailored to you by downloading the Meta AI app. Try the Meta AI app today on the Apple App Store and Google Play.