Why does the government fund research at universities?

Summary

Planet Money: Why Does the Government Fund Research at Universities?

Released on May 28, 2025 | Host: NPR's Erica Barris and Mary Childs

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Introduction

In this episode of Planet Money, NPR hosts Erica Barris and Mary Childs delve into the crucial relationship between the U.S. federal government and university research funding. Amidst recent threats and actual cuts from the Trump administration, thousands of researchers across the country face potential job losses and halted projects. The episode spotlights Mike Mears, a biologist and assistant professor at Washington University in St. Louis, to illustrate the profound impacts of these funding shifts.

The Current Funding Crisis

Mike Mears, who leads a lab studying the genetic influences on diseases like cancer, shares his anxiety over recent federal funding cuts. "It's shifted, I think in like early February. It was like the panic emoji" (00:56). These cuts threaten not only his work but also the livelihoods of his nine researchers. The National Institutes of Health (NIH) grant he depends on, amounting to $300,000 annually for five years, is now uncertain. Mears emphasizes the urgency: "I really have to get a big grant in the next couple years or else the money's going to run out at some point" (01:35).

The Trump administration's aggressive stance includes canceling substantial research grants and imposing conditions that many universities find untenable. Harvard University, for instance, battles over billions in funding cuts, Columbia loses $400 million, and Johns Hopkins experiences the layoff of 2,000 employees (03:03). These actions disrupt the symbiotic relationship that has underpinned American research for decades.

Historical Context: The Birth of University Research Funding

The episode traces the origins of federal funding for university research back to the post-World War II era, highlighting the pivotal role of Vannevar Bush. As the first presidential science advisor, Bush orchestrated the Office of Scientific Research and Development, overseeing projects like the Manhattan Project. However, beyond military applications, Bush envisioned a broader role for federally funded research in driving economic and scientific advancement.

Elizabeth Popp Berman, a professor at the University of Michigan and author of Creating the Market: How Academic Science Became an Economic Engine, explains that before this shift, most research was privately funded, primarily within companies like Westinghouse and Bell Labs. Bush argued that such private entities lacked the incentive to pursue basic research, which doesn't offer immediate commercial returns. His seminal report, Science: The Endless Frontier (11:07), advocated for government investment in independent, scientist-driven research at universities, laying the foundation for the modern research economy.

The Synergistic Growth of Universities and Federal Funding

Following Bush's vision, American universities flourished with increased federal support. By the 1960s, the establishment of programs like Medicare and Medicaid further bolstered research funding through agencies like the NIH. This influx not only expanded medical research but also spurred the growth of related industries such as Silicon Valley and biotechnology.

However, the relationship between universities and federal funding has evolved, leading to some criticisms. Questions about the classification of wealthy universities as nonprofits and debates over the public benefits of federally funded research have emerged. Despite these critiques, federal investment has been instrumental in transforming universities into global leaders in research and education.

Understanding the Financial Structure of a University

Andrew Martin, Chancellor of Washington University, provides an in-depth look at the university's financial landscape through its audited financial statement. The total revenue pie amounts to over $5 billion, with about 20% ($700 million) coming directly from federal grants. Additionally, indirect costs such as infrastructure and administrative expenses contribute another $250 million (22:21).

The largest portion of revenue, approximately $3 billion, is derived from patient care through the university's medical centers. Tuition accounts for around $500 million, while endowments—though substantial at Washington University with $12 billion—are largely earmarked for specific purposes and contribute about $500 million annually through investment returns (23:22; 25:02).

The Impact of Federal Cuts on University Finances

Federal funding cuts pose a significant threat to this financial ecosystem. While patient care revenue and endowments provide substantial income, they are insufficient to replace lost federal grants. Increasing patient services is challenging in a stagnant city like St. Louis, and endowments are strategically preserved to ensure long-term financial health. Chancellor Martin explains, "We can't use all of it... the problems that we're facing are long term structural problems" (27:07).

In response to the immediate shortfall, Washington University has had to make difficult decisions, including staff layoffs, postponing infrastructure projects, and reconsidering endowment investments. These measures, however, are temporary solutions to what Chancellor Martin views as a deeper, systemic crisis (28:15).

Global Competition and the Future of American Universities

The episode underscores the global stakes involved in maintaining robust research funding. Countries like China are heavily investing in research and technology to compete with the United States. Chancellor Martin warns, "There are other countries, particularly China, that are investing heavily... I would hate for us as a country to lose the battle that we've already won" (28:31).

Leaders like Martin are actively lobbying in Washington, D.C., to communicate the indispensable value of university research. They argue that federal investments in research not only advance scientific knowledge but also drive economic growth and maintain national competitiveness.

Conclusion: The Essential Role of Federal Funding in Higher Education

Planet Money concludes by reaffirming the critical importance of federal funding in sustaining American universities' role as centers of innovation and education. The current funding challenges highlight the fragile balance that universities maintain to achieve their missions. Without continued federal support, the intricate web of education, research, and economic development that universities foster could unravel, diminishing the United States' standing in the global arena.

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Notable Quotes:

• Mike Mears: "I really have to get a big grant in the next couple years or else the money's going to run out at some point." (01:35)

• Andrew Martin: "We can't use all of it... the problems that we're facing are long term structural problems." (27:07)

• Andrew Martin: "Higher education is a global market... I would hate for us as a country to lose the battle that we've already won." (28:31)

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Produced by: Willa Rubin | Edited by: Marianne McCune | Fact Checked by: Cierra Juarez | Engineered by: Harry Paul | Executive Producer: Alex Goldmark

This summary excludes all advertisements, intros, outros, and non-content sections to focus solely on the informative aspects of the episode.

Transcript

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[NPR Host]

This is Planet Money from NPR.

[Erica Barris]

Mike Mears is a biologist and an assistant professor at Washington University in St. Louis, Missouri. He, he runs his own lab. Does everybody wear a white lab coat?

[Mike Mears]

Yeah, if eh and S is listening. Yes, everyone's wearing a lab coat.

[Erica Barris]

Okay.

[Mary Childs]

He studies how our DNA influences diseases like cancer, and he's been doing pretty great. But lately university life has been.

[Erica Barris]

We talked about it in a language I don't usually speak. Is there an emoji that best represents how you felt the last few months?

[Mike Mears]

It's shifted, I think in like early February. It was like the panic emoji.

[Mary Childs]

Mike is one of thousands of researchers all around the country who are suddenly at risk of losing their jobs because the Trump administration is cutting or threatening to cut funding for their research, in some cases huge pieces of it.

[Erica Barris]

The thought of those cuts is panic emoji, crying emoji, or, I don't know, poop emoji.

[Mike Mears]

You could work that one in there, too. Yeah.

[Erica Barris]

If you can't tell, neither one of us is super emoji literate.

[Mike Mears]

Might be like the red angry emoji, or it might be the sort of exhausted emoji. If there was sort of like a keep calm and carry on emoji.

[Mary Childs]

Yeah, that's not an emoji.

[Mike Mears]

I really have to get a big grant in the next couple years or else the money's going to run out at some point.

[Mary Childs]

Mike's got nine researchers in his lab, and right now he's gearing up to get this crazy, crucial grant from the National Institutes of Health. The NIH, the big one he's applied.

[Erica Barris]

For, would bring in $300,000 every year for a half decade. And the proposal he submitted is as detailed as you'd expect. Salaries for people in his lab, his salary software.

[Mike Mears]

So let me try to bring up a budget justification I have here.

[Mary Childs]

The project is to watch what happens to DNA over time. And he needs all kinds of materials.

[Mike Mears]

Tissue culture plates, cryovial tubes, centrifuge tubes, antibiotics, chemotherapeutics, small molecules inhibitors.

[Erica Barris]

In another grant, he's asking for equipment.

[Mike Mears]

I submitted a line item request for a new fluorescent microscope, but that still costs like $100,000.

[Erica Barris]

Oh, my goodness.

[Mary Childs]

If he gets the money, it's not like he gets some big check in the mail for $300,000.

[Mike Mears]

Yeah, yeah. No, it doesn't go to me. It doesn't belong to me. Right. It belongs to the university.

[Erica Barris]

These potential grants are a tiny but vital piece of Washington University's budget. The university actually gets lots of tiny pieces like this. Right now, they have around 1500 NIH grants. And if you add up all the checks Washu received last year from the government, it was nearly a billion dollars for just this one school.

[Mary Childs]

But since January, the federal government has been threatening to cancel massive amounts of university funding. And in some cases, they already have. Harvard is battling over billions of dollars. Columbia lost 400 million, and Johns Hopkins has laid off 2,000 people because of cuts.

[Erica Barris]

It's stressful out there if you're a researcher and Mike was one of the few willing to talk to me about. Feels as if everyone is kind of scared.

[Mike Mears]

Totally. Yeah. I mean, I think. Yeah. And I'm right there with them. Right. Like, I don't. I certainly. I don't want to mark on my. I think all of us want to just do our work. Right? And we want to do what it is we came here to do, which is like, do some cool science and help people out. I worry that by sort of laying low, we're actually maybe undermining our future ability to actually do that.

[Erica Barris]

Hello, and welcome to Planet Money. I'm Erica Barris.

[Mary Childs]

And I'm Mary Childs. American universities have long been the envy of the world, but this fund fight over federal funding, it could change that. So is this the beginning of the end of universities as we know them?

[Erica Barris]

Today? On the show, we walk you through the history that made our universities what they are today. And we also get our DNA researchers, Big boss, the head of Washington University to open up his books to show us where all their money comes from and what will happen if some of it goes away.

[Andrew Martin]

Our institutions are individually going to be weaker, and what that means practically, is that as a nation, we're going to be weaker.

[Mary Childs]

This episode is part of our occasional series looking at how the Trump administration and others are challenging a set of economic ideas that date back to World War II. Ideas that placed the US at the center of the economic universe. Things like, it's good for the US if dollars are the world's currency. Or in this episode, investing in university research will pay off. We're calling our series Pax Americana.

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[Mary Childs]

Washington University is a 172-year-old elite private university in St. Louis, Missouri. The administration building looks like a literal castle with battlements on top and everything. And it is out of that building that the chancellor of Washington University works.

[Erica Barris]

So you are like the person who is guiding the ship, essentially?

[Andrew Martin]

Yes, I am the person that's guiding the big old complicated ship.

[Mary Childs]

Andrew Martin is guiding the ship on which our DNA researcher is just one of many sailors.

[Erica Barris]

I feel like it's probably been a busy few months for you.

[Andrew Martin]

Totally. I mean, the pace, the pace of things coming out of the federal government, it's almost something every day, whether a new executive order, request for information, you know, possible change in regulation and the like. That velocity has been pretty challenging.

[Erica Barris]

In the last few months, the Trump administration has pulled visas from students, including some at Washington University. They've told Harvard they can no longer have international students, currently more than a quarter of the student body. Trump has issued executive orders prohibiting diversity initiatives, and the government has canceled research grants all over the country, including millions for a handful of projects at Washu.

[Andrew Martin]

And not only did they stop any future money, but we were asked to return all unspent money as well.

[Erica Barris]

Oh wow.

[Andrew Martin]

Now that's the reality of what happens when you cancel a contract to do research.

[Erica Barris]

Did you have to let anyone go?

[Andrew Martin]

Yes, we've had to let some employees go who were employed on specific research grants.

[Erica Barris]

When it comes to NIH funding, Washington University is getting around a billion dollars a year. It's among the nation's top recipients of federal money. So the idea that it's starting to.

[Andrew Martin]

Go away, I don't know what Washington University is going to look like in six or 12 months. And I think as we think about higher education, systemically, we have the same concerns.

[Erica Barris]

Has there ever been a time when this relationship between the federal government and the university has felt so fraught?

[Andrew Martin]

Not in my lifetime.

[Mary Childs]

Now a university is two big things. One, a Place where people go to learn, but also it's a research incubator. And the system we have where universities get tons of federal funding has been in place for the last eight decades.

[Andrew Martin]

Universities and the federal government entered into an agreement right after World War II. And the purpose was to build the very best scientific research engine in the world. And we did it. And we're concerned that some of the actions that are being taken are going to destroy something incredible that we've built together since the end of World War II.

[Erica Barris]

That story of how we got the system we have today began with this guy named. Thank you, Vannevar Bush.

[Mary Childs]

Vannevar was the first presidential science advisor. He ran the Office of Scientific Research and Development during the war.

[Erica Barris]

The first project that he got famous for is now infamous. He decided to bring some of the best scientific researchers in the country together to develop weapons, specifically a bomb that would be so ferocious, no country would ever attack the US Again.

[Mary Childs]

That endeavor is not so fondly remembered as the Manhattan Project. And though that project itself was controversial, it threw a spotlight on the power of research. So after the war ended, Vannever was like, federal government. What else could we develop if we threw some money at the great minds at all these universities, let's do it. Let's start funding research at universities. And people from both sides of the aisle were on board.

[NPR Host]

People were like, we should keep doing some of this.

[Erica Barris]

This is Elizabeth Popp Berman, professor at University of Michigan, who wrote a book called Creating the Market How Academic Science Became an Economic Engine.

[NPR Host]

How does the system work? Like, where does the money come from? How has this changed over time?

[Erica Barris]

That is literally why I called you.

[Mary Childs]

So Elizabeth says, before the war, universities were almost entirely funded private, privately, or by states. And there was some research at those universities, but most happened instead in private companies. Westinghouse, Bell Labs. They were paying scientists to invent things that they could sell, like early semiconductors, transistors, or the railway air brake.

[Erica Barris]

But Vannevar argued America's private sector didn't have enough incentive to conduct basic research. Because some research isn't commercial, you can't immediately make money off of it. Also, it can take years, and sometimes it doesn't pan out.

[Mary Childs]

The point was we should take risks on research, invest in it, even before we know its outcome. And Vannever believed the best place for that research was American universities. They'd be able to train the next generation.

[Erica Barris]

There was this historic moment where Vannevar wrote a report called Science the Endless Frontier. It was like a call to arms for the federal government to help university researchers open new frontiers.

[Mary Childs]

He wrote, if the colleges, universities and research institutes are to meet the rapidly increasing demands of industry and government for new scientific knowledge, their basic research should be strengthened by use of public funds.

[Erica Barris]

Initially, a lot of the research was oriented towards data defense because we'd gone From World War II to the Cold.

[NPR Host]

War, we'd had advances in things like radar and sonar and who knows what the next advance is going to be. That's going to help us kind of maintain our defense edge.

[Erica Barris]

Right? Other Rs of all kinds.

[NPR Host]

Yeah, other Rs, yeah.

[Erica Barris]

But Vanneveer also wanted to broaden the focus to new frontiers of all kinds. There's actually this interview of him from back then with Edward R. Murrow. He talked about the importance of competing with the Soviet Union and the world in all, all the ways, economic ways.

[Mary Childs]

By trade, by political maneuvering and by science.

[Andrew Martin]

There is going to be a great.

[Erica Barris]

Surge forward of the biological science. In this interview at his home, Fanny Burr is rocking a three piece suit, maybe tweed, and his signature rimless glasses. New light is being thrown into dark corners everywhere. Knowledge is building up and in my.

[Andrew Martin]

Opinion, the dam will break and there will be many applications and very important ones.

[Mary Childs]

There was some debate about how exactly to throw light into which dark corners. Like would this new federal funding system be top down? Would government officials decide what research should be done and who should do it, as in the Manhattan Project?

[Erica Barris]

Or would this funding system be more scientific, scientist driven, independent? Like scientists would decide what was interesting or pertinent or necessary and propose research, find their own new frontiers. And that's the system we chose. Science driving science.

[Mary Childs]

And it wasn't just about research for research's sake. This was also about fostering American influence around the world. The US was taking on this new worldwide leadership role. The dollar became the world's reserve currency. The the US was helping European countries rebuild after the war. And now the federal government would start funding research at universities for the sake of learning and also to place the US at the center of the intellectual and economic universe. So a new research economy was born.

[Erica Barris]

Scientists at universities would submit proposals. Their own peers would review them and decide which projects to fund. And the federal government would hand over the money. This system took off. More Americans than ever went to college. People from all over the world came to the US to study and work. The grants grew, the science flourished and the universities got bigger.

[Mary Childs]

And over the decades, the federal government did a couple things that strengthened that symbiotic relationship even further. First, in the 1960s, the US passed Medicare and Medicaid. Healthcare was suddenly this growing industry. And with that came millions more dollars in research funding, this time from another federal agency, the National Institutes of Health.

[Erica Barris]

So now the health care side of universities grew. Universities partnered with or purchased more hospitals. They got bigger, and the grants for medical research got bigger. Now we have what we call EDs in med cities, where medicine and education are huge economic drivers.

[Mary Childs]

And Elizabeth, who wrote the book about all this, she says all this federal money going into universities also grew other big industries. Silicon Valley, biotech.

[NPR Host]

These are new industries that are very clearly grounded in research that was originally done in universities. And so just like at the end of World War II, the long term benefits are hard to predict, but they're also really large and significant when they do come.

[Erica Barris]

In 1980, the federal government gave American universities one more big boost. It was a few years after Vannevar Bush died. We were coming out of the 70s when the economy wasn't so great. So Congress made a key change that would add to the wealth of universities.

[Mary Childs]

They changed who could own the ideas that university researchers came up with. Before this federally funded research was thought to be for the public good, there.

[NPR Host]

Was kind of a little bit of an anti patent attitude in general that, you know, we're universities, we create stuff that's supposed to be publicly available knowledge, and so this isn't something that's appropriate for us to be doing.

[Mary Childs]

Then Congress changed the law to say actually universities can patent their inventions and research. So now universities could profit from licensing the innovations created in their labs.

[Erica Barris]

Things like inhalable Covid vaccines, the computer mouse, drone technology, Google search code. Today, universities issue nearly 5,000 new patents a year.

[Mary Childs]

So that big idea that Vannevar Bush had after World War II to fund independent research at American universities grew into the system that we have now.

[Erica Barris]

In 2023, the federal government spent $60 billion on research and development at universities, more than 30 times as much as they spent in the early 1950s, even adjusted for inflation. Has there been too much government money going towards funding research?

[NPR Host]

I think there's lots of ways you could imagine it being better or places where you could want to reform it.

[Mary Childs]

Over the past few decades, there have been many criticisms of how big, rich and powerful some universities have become. Like, should we really classify some of these institutions as nonprofits? And how much does the public benefit from federally funded, slow, painstaking scientific research?

[Erica Barris]

Since January, the Trump administration has been attacking universities, saying the, quote, left wing ideology at elite schools doesn't reflect the population of the United States. The administration has accused universities of allowing antisemitism on their campuses and has told some of them that if they want to continue receiving federal funding for research, they have to change how they run things.

[Mary Childs]

At Washington University, the grants that have been rescinded are related to diversity, equity and inclusion efforts, like a STEM focused training grant for students from underrepresented backgrounds, research focused on minority populations, women, gender, vaccines.

[Erica Barris]

When I asked NIH about the cuts, a spokesperson referred me to a 63 page document of all the cuts they've made and to a White House statement that in part read that the US Spends too much on projects that, quote, do not promote the interest of the American people. But funding for all kinds of science is at its lowest level in decades, and at Harvard, all research funding is being withheld because the university has refused to comply with the administration's long list of demands, most of which aren't related to science.

[Mary Childs]

So heads of universities across the country are watching to see if a whole system of independent research decades in the making is gonna be dismantled, grant by grant, cut by cut, and they're trying to figure out what to do.

[Erica Barris]

After the break, we dive into Washington University's audited financial statement with the guy who commands the ship.

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[Erica Barris]

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[Erica Barris]

What's in your wallet?

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[Erica Barris]

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[Mary Childs]

People who run universities, they talk all the time. They have big meetings all over the country. And the chancellor of Washington University says that this year they have a different vibe.

[Erica Barris]

What are those meetings like?

[Andrew Martin]

So everybody looks tired. We're all uncertain about what the future looks like.

[Mary Childs]

So between meetings, Andrew Martin says there's a whole lot of texting going on.

[Erica Barris]

Is there like a big president group, text chain?

[Andrew Martin]

No.

[Erica Barris]

No, there is not. Okay.

[Andrew Martin]

Some of us aren't that tech savvy.

[Erica Barris]

So individual texts with Andrew's closest 12 president, chancellor, friends. And one of the things they're asking each other is, if their funding gets cut, how are they going to survive? So I asked, can we actually look at your university's whole entire big budget?

[Andrew Martin]

I can certainly talk about it.

[Erica Barris]

Okay.

[Andrew Martin]

I know the information well.

[Erica Barris]

And he did send it to me. Last year's 35 page audited financial statement showing what they own, what they earn, what they saved, and everything they're spending. We focused on, on the amount of money coming in. And the thing that I wanted to understand, what does it take to run a university of this size and where does that money come from?

[Mary Childs]

So the easiest way to think about it is like a big pie. Last year's total pie was a little over $5 billion. So first up, what portion of the pie came from the federal government?

[Erica Barris]

Andrew showed me that it was about one fifth of the pie, 20%.

[Mike Mears]

So.

[Erica Barris]

So Washington University got about $700 million in federal grants last year, but they also got hundreds of millions more from the federal government because of something called indirect cost payments. So not the direct costs like the microscope for our DNA researcher or the centrifuge tubes, but indirect costs like the counters in his research lab, the chair he sits in.

[Andrew Martin]

There are certain things you can't put on a grant. You know, you can't put a building on a grant.

[Erica Barris]

Right.

[Andrew Martin]

Most equipment you can't put on a grant.

[Erica Barris]

Light bulbs, probably.

[Andrew Martin]

Correct.

[Erica Barris]

Every school negotiates how much of that overhead money they'll get. Like, we need the grants plus an additional percent. So for Washington University, Andrew told me they get about 700 million in grants and then 250 million or so for.

[Mary Childs]

Overhead and all that money could be in jeopardy. The grants, the percentage they get on top of those grants, it has all been thrown into question in recent months.

[Erica Barris]

So Andrew and I went through all the other sources of income for Washington University, all the other pieces of the pie, to understand what, if anything, could expand if the federal money went away.

[Mary Childs]

There were basically three other major sources of revenue, and the first one was kind of surprising. Washington University's biggest source of revenue actually comes from what their physicians charge for seeing patients.

[Erica Barris]

The doctors at the university partner with hospitals in St. Louis, and when they see patients, they get insurance payments, and that makes up about half the pie.

[Andrew Martin]

About $3 billion comes in from patient care revenue, and that actually swamps the rest of what we do at the university.

[Erica Barris]

Okay, so that's a lot of money.

[Andrew Martin]

It's a lot of money.

[Erica Barris]

So if the university wanted to make up for cuts to its federal funding, it could maybe get its physicians to see more patients. Andrew says, yeah, great. But the problem is that's difficult in a city like St. Louis that is not growing. He hopes to make that piece of the pie bigger, but he says it can't replace federal research grants.

[Mary Childs]

So, next up, in the pie of revenue, all the payments the school collects, everything from parking to serving lattes in the cafe to the biggest part, tuition. But in the pie, overall tuition is.

[Andrew Martin]

Actually a little part of the pie.

[Erica Barris]

All the tuition adds up to about $500 million. The rest is a few hundred million more. So if they wanted to use this piece of the pie to fill in for federal money, they might lose, they'd have to increase tuition or reduce financial aid.

[Mary Childs]

Okay, so we've got the income from hospitals, the income from payments, and there is one more big chunk of the pie. It's the one that people always imagine is going to solve all the problems at universities, the endowment.

[Erica Barris]

Washington University has $12 billion in endowment money. It's the 15th biggest endowment in the country.

[Mary Childs]

And the thing to understand about endowments is that lots of that money is earmarked for specific purposes that the donors choose, like specific scholarships or named professor chairs. And the other thing to understand about endowments is that the endowment itself is making money for the university every year that endowment money is invested. So if they spend it down, they're going to reduce their yearly revenue. A piece of the pie gone.

[Erica Barris]

Andrew told me every year they earn about 8% on their endowment, and they spend about 4%, which comes out to about half a billion dollars a year. And he says they need to save the Rest.

[Andrew Martin]

So endowments aren't like piggy banks. We could go to maybe five, five and a half percent. But anything beyond that would mean that we would start degrading the corpus of the endowment. Right. And the way I think about it is that, you know, you never would take out a mortgage on your house to pay for your food bill.

[Mary Childs]

Andrew told us the endowment is there to generate more interest. They need it to grow, not dwindle.

[Erica Barris]

So if the school doesn't want to dip all the way into its endowment and doesn't actually turn a profit from tuition and can't immediately just produce thousands more medical patients, what then? Well, Andrew told me the university does have a cash reserve. It's not a source of revenue, it's emergency money.

[Andrew Martin]

If you look at our financial statements today, our total cash reserve is a little north of $2 billion.

[Erica Barris]

Okay, that seems like you could use that. What would be the harm in using that?

[Andrew Martin]

We can't use all of it.

[Erica Barris]

But you can't just take it out, take a stack of $2 billion and say, all right, let's fix this problem.

[Andrew Martin]

Correct. Because. Because the problems that we're facing are long term structural problems.

[Mary Childs]

Yeah. $2 billion could make up for a couple years of research. And he says he could use some of that cash reserve. But then what?

[Erica Barris]

Universities, they are an incredible, incredibly complicated ecosystem. They're where people go to get educated, but they're also where people do research and where doctors do their jobs. And they are 300 acre coffee shops and landlords, and it's a virtuous circle. If they get the federal funding, they'll get the tuition dollars and the parking lot money and the big gifts from alumni. It's all these different streams of revenue all intertwined.

[Mary Childs]

So in this precarious moment, Andrew is making some difficult and complicated decisions. Figuring out what staff he can lose, deciding not to break ground on a new building, changing how the endowment is invested. But he sees even those as short term solutions.

[Erica Barris]

Andrew and the other president, chancellor, friends he's texting with, they're trying to rethink what the entirety of a budget and mission of an American university will look like, especially when the rest of the world is still clamoring to compete.

[Andrew Martin]

Higher education is a global market, right? There are people dying to attract as many students from around the world as we do here in the United States. There are other countries, particularly China, that are investing heavily in research, in technology, in biomedical science, because they see an opportunity to very quickly become as competitive as we are in the United States. I would hate for us as a country to lose the battle that we've already won.

[Erica Barris]

And when Andrew goes to Washington, D.C. every month to talk with lawmakers, he's focusing more on the basics, trying to make them understand the value of everything that happens at Washington University. How much, just like Vannevar Bush argued decades ago, it does benefit all Americans that the money the government spends, it's an investment. It will pay off. If you're new to Planet Money, welcome. Come on in. We've got all kinds of shows for you, everything from how the US Dollar became the world's reserve currency to how a month of tariff uncertainty affected the economy.

[Mary Childs]

This episode was produced by Willa Rubin and edited by Marianne McCune. It was fact checked by Cierra Juarez and engineered by Harry Paul. Alex Goldmark is our executive producer. I'm Mary Childs.

[Erica Barris]

I'm Erica Barris. This is npr. Thanks for listening.

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