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A
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C
The brightness around the object showed three jets.
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D
And I feel like we're on the brink of a major discovery.
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C
We are not at the top of the food chain. That's the most important thing to keep in mind.
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D
Good morning.
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C
Good morning.
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D
So I'm very excited. Let's just get right into it again. This is the amazing Dr. Avi Loeb and an astrophysicist at Harvard University. And we are. I'm very excited to hear about the progress of what's going on with our interstellar object.
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C
Well, thanks for having me. It's a great pleasure always to join you.
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D
Yes.
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C
In recent weeks, we've learned some new details about the most recent interstellar visitor to our backyard 3i atlas. It's currently heading out of the solar system. It passed near Jupiter in a few weeks ago, and we learned that it had the deuterium, which is an isotope of hydrogen with an abundance that is a thousand times larger than the average cosmic value. And deuterium is used as fuel together with tritium in nuclear fusion reactors. And it's an interesting question of whether this could be a technological signature that we see such a high deuterium abundance. We don't know. It was never seen in a comet or an asteroid before. And it's quite unusual. And it adds up to the other two dozen anomalies that this object had already, including having nickel with very little iron, which is again, a technological product. When we produce nickel alloys, we remove the iron. All in all, we just didn't have a close look at Free Atlas. We didn't take the opportunity, even though it came in the plane of the planet around the sun. So we had about a year to get close to it, but we were not ready. There was no spacecraft that we could bring very close to it so we can get a high resolution image of it. So it remains a bit mysterious. Most astronomers would argue that it's probably just a comet, but we should all be aware that, you know, it could be a Trojan horse situation where the outside may look as if it's an iceberg, but the inside Inside of it, there is something unusual. And we've also found some biological signatures, molecules that are often the markers of biology, like methane and other organic molecules. And most interestingly, when we removed the spherically symmetric glow around the nucleus, whatever was left from the brightness around the object showed three jets that are equally spaced, equally separated from each other. And that could be a signature of thrusters. We just don't know. So I would say it has a lot of Rare Qualities, 3 a atlas that make it a little suspicious. But we have no clinging evidence that it definitely is technological. It remains unresolved, but there are lessons to be learned. For the next object, we want to get a high resolution image of it, we want to get close to it, perhaps even scoop materials from it if we can land on it. So we can do much better. In addition to having the Rubin Observatory, that could find dozens of new objects in the coming decade, we should have another observatory, a twin observatory in the northern part of the globe. Because the Rubin Observatory is in Chile, just observes the southern sky. And that will give us a full view of the entire sky. And then we should then plan to, to get much more data than we did for 3 Atlas when the next anomalous object shows up, an unusual visitor. And all of that, you know, is, should be kept in the context of the possibility that the US Government, for example, noticed unusual objects near Earth. Another tidbit about three Eye Atlas is that over the past month or few months, there was a surge in the number of meteors, unprecedented increase by a factor of three or so in the number of meteors. These are objects colliding with Earth. And that's just around the time when the Earth came closest to the path that Three Eye ATLAS went through. It's not close to us anymore, but there might have been a debris cloud around it. And some of the objects may have collided with Earth recently. And if that's the case, if we can demonstrate that, of course we can study the material that these meteors were made of.
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D
You know, it's kind of mind boggling that we don't have observatories already. I mean, that's just insane that we. Why do we not have at least a complete view of what's around us? I mean, that's insane. The other thing is like when I hear you talking about nuclear and stuff like that, because there's a theory, I say theories. Some people think want to say it's facts, but that we reverse engineered alien technology, right? And that's why we were able to get our iPhones, iPads, and our jets fly a certain way. So if you're seeing a similar this
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D
with a nuclear it's that also is interesting to me because it is, it is similar to what we've been working on here. Is that, is that a stretch or no?
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C
No, I don't think it's a stretch because a lot of very credible people talk about the materials or information that the US Government has and President Trump directed the Secretary of War, Pete Hexett, to release classified information on and just earlier this week, Congresswoman Anna Paulina Luna submitted a letter to Secretary Hexseth with request for 46 videos, specific names of videos that apparently she's aware of that may indicate non human technologies. And it would be really interesting. The deadline for the delivery of those videos is the 14th of April, and we shall see what information is being released. And of course, I would be delighted to help Congresswoman Luna or other members of government in figuring out what this data means. Does it really indicate non human technologies or could it be explained in terms of drones, balloons, airplanes, the kind of things we're familiar with? And the next few months I think could be quite exciting if indeed the government has collected evidence. The one thing about astronomers is that they build telescopes that focus on a small portion of the sky and they are primarily interested in very distant sources of light. So they ignore things close to Earth. And the US Government does so does pay attention to those objects because they could be a matter of national security. So it's really important that we understand unusual anomalies close to Earth for the simple practical reason that they could be related to national security or the safety of pilots. But there is also some chance that they may represent a visit by some extraterrestrial technological artifacts. And let's see if that's the case by looking for evidence. There was a comment made by Vice President J.D. vance also this week that these UFOs or unidentified the anomalous phenomena are demons, he said, based on his religious beliefs. And I have no issue with that. But as long as all of us agree that we should collect as much
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D
evidence as I'm pretty sure that maybe I'm wrong, but demons and angels based on religious beliefs don't need ships. So. But again, I, I think the only. And I. The issue I have with that is that demons always. We, we, when we say things like that makes a negative connotation. It makes a scary, A monster, a vampire, an alien, you know, and it's either in, in Hollywood, all the aliens, you know, they're ripping out of our chest or. And I, I just feel like, if. I don't feel like there would be. They're the hostile ones in this situation.
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C
No, in fact, I think, well, if they represent technologies that we don't possess is an opportunity for us to learn.
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D
Yes.
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C
I mean, we should approach it with humility as a learning experience. And my guess, if, if they represent, if they were produced by our. By siblings of our family of intelligent civilizations in the Milky Way galaxy that, you know, they are the better angels of our nature rather than demons. And it's something that we can learn from. And just imagine how more advanced we would be in a century, two centuries, even within a few years. Now we are developing AI, artificial intelligence that evolves exponentially. So if you extrapolate a century into the future, obviously there are lots of things that would be far better than we currently have. And if we meet a civilization that already experienced this technological advancement, advance that then we can learn from them. And I see that as an opportunity. You know, life is exciting. When you date someone that is more intelligent than you are, I think we should always aim high rather than low,
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D
you know, and you think about. Because I feel like we're on a precipice. I feel all these things are coming into alignment and I feel like we're on the brink of a. Of a major discovery.
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C
So it's really interesting that you point this out because we definitely live in a new age of AI, you know, because these computer systems are getting to the point where they might replicate most of our cognitive abilities. You know, they already are quite smart. And in addition to the new age of AI, there might be a new age of disclosure on alien technologies. That's, you know, there is one benefit of alien intelligence over artificial intelligence, AI that we produce. The AI systems are limited to the experiences here on Earth of the creator. Yeah, The AI that we produce are based on training data sets that are limited to all the data that was accumulated over the centuries here on Earth, whereas alien intelligence was based on much bigger data set, presumably beyond Earth. There is much more real estate out there. So there is definitely a benefit to Alien intelligence. If I had to choose which form of superhuman intelligence I would like to encounter, I would say alien intelligence because it's much broader. But in addition, there is Obviously now Artemis 2 was launched with four astronauts that will circle the moon. So there is a new rejuvenated age of space exploration. So there are three things that make our life very exciting, I think. And the question is, which one would win the day? Which one would be the most prominent transformation that humanity goes through? Will it be AI, Would it be alien intelligence that we uncover? Or will it be space exploration? What's your bet?
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D
I would, I would, I would. I'm with you. I would prefer someone that's been there a little longer calling the shots. But yeah, now, one of the.
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C
Now by the way, I should, I should really salute you for appreciating that because the young people, they don't appreciate the elders.
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D
No, wisdom. Wisdom is much needed at times because I'm feeling also a lack of wisdom from a lot of. I see a lot of pushback about this conversation. And one of the things I'm like, obviously if, just for example, the energy it takes to travel across the space as we know it, if they have a self defeating energy, say it's like a little donut for whatever reason. And that one thing can generate an entire neighborhood. Just one little. No wires, no anything. Cars don't need gas. So it would be a complete upheaval of our system. The oil, the power, electric. So there's a lot of, a lot of people who make a lot of money that would be very unhappy. And I would. You would think, you wouldn't, you would
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C
think, well, for a greater purpose, you wouldn't need to worry about the Strait of Hormuz. If oil is. Exactly, yeah. And, but also we will not need to build these giant rockets. If you looked at Artemis 2, it was a 98 meters construction, you know, bigger than the Statue of Liberty, a giant thing. Most of it was just fuel, right? And suppose you have a propulsion system that is not based on fuel, but based on, I don't know, manipulating space time as an example. In that case, suddenly you don't need this giant structure. You can just take the payload and attach to it a small thing and it will propel it. So it's quite possible that things like that are, you know, were mastered by civilizations that had more than one century of science and technology. Just a century ago we discovered quantum mechanics and general relativity, the theory of gravity. So we're relatively young in terms of our advances. And now we are obviously starting to get used to AI and we have never used it in space, by the way. But my guess is that if we have an encounter with a visitor, the that visitor will involve, of course, the artificial intelligence.
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D
Right. It's better to send an AI robot up in one of our.
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Yeah, exactly, yes. Because they would not be as vulnerable to the conditions, you know, and it takes a long time for the journey. It could take billions of years, depending on what propulsion system is used. The other interesting point is that, you know, Steven Spielberg has a new movie coming out in June, Disclosure Day, and the question is whether he was given some information about what's about to happen. That this is the second movie with a title that includes the word disclosure. There was Age of Disclosure that was just released a few months ago. And so the question is, are we being prepared within society to the notion that there is something visiting us? In which case, Enrico Fermi's question worries everybody. He asked this question, 1950. The answer might be right here.
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D
And that's. I feel the same sentiment. I feel like there's only so much you can suppress for so long. And I think the other issue is I don't think we're the only player in town in terms of the United States. And I guess for a long time, if everything we've done is based off reverse engineering, with this, our giant leap in technology from we couldn't figure out to tie a rock to a stick for 70,000 years. And then once, suddenly, amazingly, we figured that out, and then we had iPads, you know, so it's like the. So I'm also thinking everything the consumer has now is about 20 years behind what the government has. So I'm thinking there's some things that are coming that you just can't unexplain it. You can't say, oh, we just figured it out. Because what always bothers me is we never see the invention of the guy building the iPad. Like, here's his screen. Here's his first prototype. Here's. It's just out. It just comes out. There's never the showing of the invention, which always was suspect to me.
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C
Well, there are two reasons for that, even if it's just human ingenuity. One, of course, within academia, people are afraid to show that they make mistakes. So they hide everything. Everything. The process. They hide the process. They don't show how, you know, it's a trial and error. And they make a lot of mistakes along the way because they just show you the product. That's very common in Academia, and that's unfortunate. They don't show you how the sausage is made. But in corporations the situation is worse because they're worried about the intellectual property. They're worried that someone else will steal their invention and make money out of it. So then they obviously hide all the development stage, the research and development that leads to the final product and they show you the final product. So for these obvious reasons, you know, you don't often see it. However, you know, I completely agree with you. There was a huge amount of acceleration recently in technologies, not so much in fundamental physics over the, you know, most of the inventions were discoveries in fundamental physics were about a century ago, much less so now. It's partly because the scientific community became very dogmatic, very risk averse. But obviously computer information technology dominated the impact on society over the past decade or two and not always for the better. We know about the negative impact of social media and now there is also the risk from AI that that could affect society. But, but it's, it's not, we are not discovering new laws of nature, you know, in recent years. That's unfortunate. And again, if we discover technological relic from another civilization, then we could potentially make a leap in our understanding because we will see something completely different than what we are used to.
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D
Yeah. And it, I feel like society overall has been, has had the, the UFO extra or just more parts of humanity just kind of glazed over to where it's just not as important as what's in front of your face.
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C
Yeah, exactly.
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And that, and that's troubling to me.
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C
Yeah, it is troubling and I noticed it most recently when the Artemis 2 yes. Launch took place because you know, many people were just completely addicted to the digital screens, checking content that was related to other events on, on Earth. You know, like a football game. I mean they didn't care much about humans going back to the moon. And if you compare that to what happened, you know, 55 years ago or so back then, it was really extremely exciting event.
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D
The world stopped to watch and so,
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so the question is what? How can we rekindle this flame of inspiration excitement from space exploration, from things that are not down to Earth. You know, we seem to be consumed with matters down to Earth which are not so inspiring. They're actually mostly frustrating. If you pay attention to politics, if you pat you, you get frustrated, you get upset. And social media of course makes, takes advantage of that because it wants you to be engaged with those frustrating experiences. Because then you are more addicted to the, to the screen.
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D
Yeah. Because you can't miss what's going on in your reality TV show. Meanwhile, it was this historic event and yeah, I thought it was going to be, you know, the number one most rated whoever was showing that launch. And it was very. You had to look for it.
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C
It's very disappointing. But there is a silver lining. If indeed there will be disclosure of some information that indicates alien technologies near Earth, then I think it will. It has the potential of exciting once again the public because if we have a visitor in our backyard, we might want to visit their backyard.
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D
Right.
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And we will be inspired to explore space. It will change everything. It will change our priorities. It's sort of like a neighbor knocking on your door. When the family members notice that they stop allowed the argument, you know, they. They focus on something else from the outside. And I hope that's what will happen. That's my wish for changing the priorities of humanity right now because it looks like it's really disappointing. You know, the other thing about AI is that I notice students and young people that are using AI all the time, that they're addicted to using it and lose their abilities to think, you know, critically, and they become dumber. And I noticed that people that use AI too much are dumber. It's an obvious effect that, you know, it's similar to people who realize there is public transportation. So they don't walk.
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D
Yes.
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C
And then your muscles, you lose your muscles as a result. And the same can happen to the brain. If you don't exercise your brain, you would lose your cognitive ability. So I'm really worried and I see that with young people. I'm worried that the people will get dumber by using AI. Yeah. It's not so much that I will take our jobs, it's the fact that, that we will lose what makes us human.
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D
Because it's.
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C
Yeah.
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D
Our dopamine hit of. I haven't used. I'm very proud to say I have not used it in any aspect. I chat. Chat. Was it chat GPT or whatever. Yeah. None of it. If I can't find it in a book or looking it up, then I'm just not supposed to find it. That's part of the adventure.
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C
Yes.
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D
You know, and, and going back to our. Our unidentified object that's. That's flying by. Even if we were to put a little bit effort into getting an actual. Let's say you get it. We get it confirmed that it was a. A alien technology. And it didn't stop and it was the closest. It was just. It was obviously heading Somewhere else tomorrow morning is knocking.
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E
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D
I don't even know if with the exception of it pulling up, them hopping out saying hey, can we pick up some water and some cattle, we got a long trip and then head off. My concern is like it's going to take some type of monumental event to get people to refocus and to get away from it. But the problem is, is that if they've been here among us the whole time, they've always refrained from that for a reason.
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C
It cannot be the first time.
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D
Exactly.
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C
If you see something, it cannot be the first time. So yeah. And then there are various scenarios for an encounter. There is one that you just described where they just passed by. Another where you realize that they actually visited Earth and maybe even crashed on Earth due to malfunction or, or actually you might find some materials or perhaps relics from whoever the pilots were. And the question is whether the US government has such data materials or do they have only imagery from.
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D
Right. Because it depends who you ask. You have experts that say they have bodies and they have ships and the United States has even shot them down. And then they've mimic their technology. And a lot of things we see that are mess, the small orbs that are messing with planes are actually man made by secret government. But it gets very James Bondish. And I feel that the truth usually isn't so mysterious. It's usually in plain sight in front of us.
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C
If I had to guess, I would say the government is unable to figure things out. They're obviously focused on adversarial nations and the potential risk to national security. That's day job. And when they see something unusual they would sideline it, but they would not declassified would not admit it because it shows the vulnerability of the US defense system and intelligence system if they can't figure out things. However, do think that it's important to figure these things out because if they are out there, then they pose a threat to pilots. I mean it's a matter of safety. And it's also possible that we don't understand what our enemies are employing, that maybe they use some unusual technology. So I think we do need to get to the bottom of this. And it cannot be just bureaucrats or engineers within government organizations. It has to be the best minds of science and technology that are engaged with this subject in an. It could be even in an advisory capacity to government. It doesn't. And one can in principle sign up a group of the best people on a non disclosure agreement. And frankly, I wouldn't mind knowing the answer. Are we being visited or not? Even if I am not allowed to tell other people. Because it really is a completely revolutionary change in the way we think about.
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D
Isn't that what the, what some. I would think some of the fear would be of the leaderships, the. All the people that are established is that with the. It would change their control. It would change. Yes, it would change the way people looked at government. People look at their own lives and.
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C
Exactly.
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D
And I think that's the scariest. I think that's the, the loss of power and control. I think would be. Is, is. Is. That's a hard thing to get the truth through because they.
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C
Well, so the way that the citizens trust governments is by the government providing protection and stability. And as soon as you realize that the government can't do anything about a potential threat or some mysterious invader or visitor, then you lose trust in government. And, and then the societal structure may break down, you know, and obviously financial markets will respond in a way that will be unstable. And so that is a potential concern within the government for why not to disclose this information. But if you do find a tennis ball in your backyard, I think, you know, you have an obligation to your family to tell them that you have a neighbor. This is important because one way or another it will be eventually clear. You know, the government is not the only organization looking at the sky. In fact, I'm leading the Galileo project. We are collecting data on millions of objects and we now have the ability to figure out distances of objects so we can measure velocity and acceleration using triangulation, looking at the same object from different directions. And just recently I asked my research team to plot among all objects that we are looking at to plot the distribution of velocity and acceleration. And the airplanes are clustered in a very particular range of velocities and accelerations. These are the kind of vehicles that we produce. And if we find the examples of objects that are maneuvering with very high velocities or accelerations, it will obviously be something different, not, not human made. And, and so the government can hold. Cannot hold the lead if there is, you know.
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D
Yeah.
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C
Something out there.
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D
We're hypothesizing right now.
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C
Yeah, yeah. So it's better in my view, it's better to tell your family members, you know, I went Out I found this tennis ball. We probably have a neighbor because that neighbor may knock on the front door one day. That neighbor can affect the lives of your family members. And let's disclose all information and decide how to adapt to it. I think that is a much better way to deal with it.
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D
I agree across the board and a great many things and unfortunately, I don't think a lot of people in our government feel that way. But again, I think it's going to be a situation that is, is something that is going to be too big to cover up. I really. And I think a lot of it has to do with just the way that we're looking at this object that's coming through. It's going to change. It's going to. People are going to already quite. That's the one thing I will say is when I bring it up, and I'm not scientific people, just everyday people that conversate, well, is it thrusters? Is it like it is sparking the imagination? It's just getting it out there. Because when you. I didn't know that or when is it coming? Like people were talk looking at me like I was crazy. I was like, no, no, it's going to be, you know, and well, so,
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C
so people ask why is it now much more acceptable to discuss it? And the answer is we have much better sensors.
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D
Yes.
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C
You know, the government employs an array of satellites that are monitoring, for example, all the ballistic missile launches from Iran. You know, that's. And we have much better technologies now to monitor these things. And we can see if there are things moving in ways that we cannot explain to much higher confidence than we ever did. And also these things must be rare. It's not like everyone that holds a cell phone would be able to see them every day. So let's get to the bottom of it. And I really hope that these. For example, the beginning of the process will be the 46 video Congresswoman Luna requested. And that should be within the coming weeks. Hopefully it will be released and that will hopefully be followed by more information. And of course, if my scientific expertise will help in figuring out what this information means, I'll be delighted to allocate all the time I can to this, even if I cannot sleep much. And I told my, my team members, the research team in the Galileo project, that if they see any unidentified object that moves in ways that we cannot explain, they should wake me up in the middle of the night. You know that. So let's see. I mean, maybe the coming weeks or months will be exciting well, and with
- [33:05]
D
that, that means that I have to keep asking you to come back because we have to keep this going.
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C
I'll be delighted. Now if at some point I say no, I can't speak about this anymore, it means that I'm just going to
- [33:16]
D
think that's a good thing. I don't need to know. But that's a good thing. Exactly.
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C
Soon that I will always be delighted to speak with you. Except if I signed an agreement that it does not allow me to speak about it.
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D
And that happened on Skinwalker Ranch episode that he was working for the United States government. He didn't tell the team because he couldn't until his time was up. And even then, you know, and I remember they were mad at him for a little while. But we'll get over it because we know you're doing, you're doing great things. And Doc, thank you so much for popping in and giving us an update. And, and we're going to try to reach out and get that congresswoman on here and talk to her about the, the videos and then I got to go on tour but I'm. We're going to check back on you and hopefully get you on in April and talk about some more updates. Yeah, that's very exciting. So with the. The jury is still out. Nothing was the final. The hypothesis is growing and we're getting a little more accurate look and it's still exciting. And we just discovered that there might be some stuff that shows signs of life on. That's amazing. And that, that and I. And we should be in line to talk about this and hopefully we can get things going to where people. It's not just podcasts. You know, this needs to be on the national news level and so hopefully we're going to get there.
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C
I mean life is fun when you treat it as a learning experience. We are not at the top of the food chain. That's the most important.
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D
No. And we need to stop acting like we are.
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C
Exactly.
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D
We'll leave it there. Thank you, Doc.
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C
Thanks for having me.
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D
Yes, sir.
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F
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E
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