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Foreign.
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What it is. This is Planet Tyrus. And well, of course I'm Tyrus. I love the freedom of my podcast to where I can interview people I want to just talk to and get to know better or people I look up to or people who have made unbelievable sacrifices for this country. And, and today's special guest fits that bill, ironically. William Bill Dylan, who was a radio man first class in January 1943 for the USS Sail Fish SS192. He, uh, served in, in World War II. Uh, he, his story is amazing. He's, he is the last of his kind, literally 102 years old. You will not, you would not think that for one second this man remembers us. A lifetime and a lifetime and a lifetime of information. And we're all going to sit under the learning tree and hear some great stories, some heartfelt stories and some realism from one of America's treasures. Ladies and gentlemen, Mr. William Bill Dillon. Good morning, sir. Mr. Dillon, how are you?
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A
I'm doing fantastically well. How about you?
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B
I'm doing fantastic, man. I just want to let you know this is unbelievable. Tremendous honor for me. You were an absolute rock star at the awards ceremony with, at the American. I always. Man, my name. My brain is. I got a lot of things going on. But American. Future.
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A
American heroes.
- [01:50]
B
Yes, future American heroes. Well, and you were absolutely, your speech was absolutely amazing. And I was not supposed to speak that night. I was just there to support. But I was so inspired. Like, please let me go up there and stand with this man. And it was an absolute honor. And before we start, I think it is a complete disservice to let the people who are watching this, watching and listening to this. I'm going to read your entire bio because I think it's important, very important, especially for our younger guys and men and women who are coming up to see what it is to be an American legend and the work that goes in and that anyone, if they're willing to do the work, can accomplish these amazing goals. Now, first of all, William, quote, Bill Dylan was born near Pittsburgh. I won't hold that against you. I'm sure you're a Steeler fan. Or Pennsylvania in 1924. Which I wanted to let you know that I have a lot of young guys on my staff, my whole team, a bunch of young guys, they can't even fathom that. They think, they think being born in the 70s is, is like I'm, I'm a fossil. So they're, they're just trying to figure it out. But. And this is another thing that just create you were, you grew up during the Great Depression and an experience that taught him resilience, discipline and a deep sense of duty. And this is all at age 17 in 1942, you left high school during your junior year to enlist in the United States Navy. During World War II, after basic training in Rhode island and radio operator school in New York City, he volunteered for submarine service and was assigned to the USS Sailfish SS119 as a Radioman First Class in January of 1943. During your four year tenure aboard the Sailfish, Dylan and his crew participated in five major war patrols in the Pacific theater, contributing to damaging or sinking multiple Japanese military and commercial vessels and rescuing downed American pilots during the Battle of Formosa. He earned two, not one, two Bronze Stars, including one with Valor for his service. Dylan's wartime role required operating early radar and radio equipment under intense combat conditions and maintaining morale among the crew during extended deployments where contact with family was impossible. You had the people who loved you back home had no idea how you were doing, and the same for you after the war. Bill Dylan married his high school Sweetheart Janet in 1946, pursued his GED, graduated from the University of Florida in 1951. He went on to contribute to early US space efforts, including assisting with the launch of the first American satellite, working on the development of the GPS system, and holding key roles in aerospace and defense tracking systems. Today, Bill Dillon is celebrated not just for his service in World War II, but also for his lifelong patriotism, innovation and community engagement. In 2024 and 2025, he celebrated his 100th birthday surrounded by friends and family, and remains one of the few surviving World War II submariners and the last known American survivor from the Battle of Formosa. Sir, you have lived a lot of lives and it is just beyond impre 17 years old. You're a baby and you just rolled up your sleeves and I'm going to do my part. What was that like? How did you like? Where does that come from?
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A
Well, I'll tell you quite frankly, the. I can't. I had absolutely no idea of what I was going to do and what I was going to accomplish in life. All I knew was that we went through one of 12 and I'm the seven boys and five girls and I'm the last of the 12. And I'm the last, also the longest living Dylan that's ever, ever lived. Okay, so anyway, we went through the Great Depression and I'll tell you, the depression was 10 times worse than any World War II, I guarantee you that I could spend hours just telling you what the heck the Depression was like. But what it taught us, it taught us so much discipline that the. We never wasted a doggone thing. When the people that ate first was always the. Always. The elders always ate first, the kids ate last. And the way they did that was because they wanted the people who were doing the work that, you know, were good health to be able to keep their job. And the kids, all, they were just learning. So we used to stand in the hallway and say, please help for us, help for us. But nothing like it is today. Of course, they got it upside down now, and they got the kids first and the parents last, and the kids never. I mean, never did we ever talk back to our parents. Never. And in fact, I used to get a whipping if I say, why'd you do that, dad? He said, just because that's what you were thinking. And I didn't even think of anything but what I'm saying. The discipline during The World War II was fantastic. So when the war came, we were ready and we were already. We were already in a position to. To take on the world. Think of this. In the Depression, we didn't even have radio. Radio wasn't even started until 1927 with KDKA. And so we really had nothing. All we had was our friends, and we used to play cards together. And so the Depression, there was no such thing as a Republican or a Democrat. We were all Americans. We were so tight, this world didn't even talk about the politics. And of course, we didn't have the. All these various services that we got today that shows, you know, what we could do and what we can't do. All we had was the movies. And when we go to the movies, when we paid 11 cents to go see the movies, that's when we saw what was going on in the world. And of course, when Roosevelt Polly came on and that he had his old chats there every once a month, and we used to listen to that. That's all we had. But coming from the Depression, if you can just picture that, there was no such thing as racism. We had blacks, we had browns, we had Jews, we had Italians, we had Irishmen, we had all kinds of people that we played with, and nobody, but nobody ever helped us do anything. There was no such thing as the kids got everything today. And when we grew up, we did it ourselves. We used to knock on the doors and they can make pennies, one just if we get a dime or anything like that and then we eventually bought our own jerseys. And of course, then I was a caddy. I used to play golf as a caddy. And we used to get thick of this. Now you see, caddy with the. We got 10 cents for a route. 10 cents. And then I'd be carrying a double bag, and you got 20 cents. And when you came in, no tips. And then I didn't know when I came home, I had to give my money to my dad.
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Yeah.
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Anyway, that's what the Depression was. The kids have absolutely no idea what it was during our lifetime. And what I have volunteered. I have volunteered myself to, to go to dark high schools. And I'm willing to talk. I tell them just exactly what it was like. And I don't. When I give a talk, I don't use any. You'll never see me. Use a note. You won't see me. I have no props. Everything I talk about is between my ears. And by God, it's so embedded in there. I can tell you who my coach was with Ben Haldi. I can tell you who, by healthcare, I can tell you who my school teachers were. I can tell you all my friends that I played with. And the sad part about all of this is this. Every single solitary one of them is gone. And even every, all my school kids are gone. Everybody went to high school to, yeah, high school is gone. Everybody I went to college with is gone. In fact, everybody I work with at work is gone. Why am I here? I think for several reasons, and I'm a very solid Catholic, and I believe when my time is up, I'm ready to go. And, but to answer your question about the Depression, I'll talk to anybody, anytime, any place, and talk to them about the Depression, really, how bad it was and how close we were and how this nation was so close and so together that what else could I do but go into service and do this work for our country? And I'm still that way. Here I am, what, I'm four months into 102 now, and by God, I'm just as strong now as I was in 17.
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B
Is no doubt in my mind about that, sir. Like, all right, you bring it at a. You bring it at a high level. And I'm telling you, I, I, if, if the speech you gave the night I was there, if it was a football game, I would have went running through the banner like you, you, you energized. And listen, that's a tough room, you know, because everyone's talking and eating, you know, and a lot of times when a lot of the other worthy award recipients would came up, you had to say, hey, hey guys, keep it down. Or hey, pay attention. When you took command of that microphone, you could have dropped a pin in that room because that was how much respect and understanding for the sacrifices that you made. And being the, the last of your kind, I don't think is a, is a, is a crazy, crazy description because. And you have all this fountain of knowledge and information. You, sir, are a natural treasure. You should be. Your learning tree should be. There should be a waiting list for, for young men and women to sit down and get a picture of what the world is really like and what, what you can do with. That's the beautiful thing about this country. You can start with absolutely nothing and you can build a wonderful life with, with hard work, a little honor and integrity. And when you do hit, when you do get knocked on the ground and we all have in life, you know how to dust yourself off and keep going. And I just want to thank you for that.
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As we go along, you're going to find out as far as anything from my government other than when I got during the war. I don't even hear from my government. It's people like you and John and the, all the, all the, the sports, sports people, they are honored to hell out of me, but not my government. And that. We'll talk about that.
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B
And we need to do something about that. And I believe we have the right man in the White House to take care of that. And like I said, I don't abuse my conversations with him, but that's a conversation that needs to happen. And speaking of your, your service, I can't wait. I want to get into the, to the submarine. But what was when you first, when you went in there and you went in that office and you signed your name to serve your country. Do you remember what that first week was like in boot camp and stuff? Was it. Were you a deer in the headlights? Were you excited? Were you scared? Was a little bit of both.
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No, it was none of those. I was just happy as a jaybird because we had that first thing I had. We had never been to a restaurant. All my growing up, we didn't have enough money to go to the restaurant. I never got a haircut in a barber shop. My dad cut for all the kids. He'd cut even his, my mother and all the sisters and brothers. He cut all of our hair type of thing. And so my dad really, really taught me to really. Quite frankly, he said if you're going to be all right. You, you love people, says love people and give your, you always give them a first chance, but don't give them a second chance. But as long. In other words, start out with the idea that this person is a good friend anyway. So when you ask me the question boot camp. No, I was just happy as a jaybird. Getting out there didn't scare me in any way, shape or form. It's the first time I've been away from home. First time I was out of, out of Pennsylvania. So in other words, even at boot camp, boy, they just, there was, there was no kidding. They were, they weren't hugging you and kissing you say, hey, we're glad to see you. They were, they were in a position where they, they were going to get us ready to fight.
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B
Yes, sir.
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A
They did a hell of a good job too.
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B
Now, what was daily life like on the, on the USS Selfish?
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A
Oh, I don't even know where to begin on that. But before I tell you about that, let me tell you why that thing that you talked about, the speech I gave. Let me just talk about just a minute. When General Flynn and I had started met the first time and we were talking about him and I and what's her name, Ellie, there we were talking and he told interview and then we'll ask you turn it over for questions. And after we talked for a while, he said, I'm not going to interview. He said, you get your ass up there and you say any damn thing you want. And that's how that speech came. I told him, I said, mike, you might not like what I got to say. He says, anything you say, I'm going to like.
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B
Yeah. There was not, there was not a person, there was not a blink in the audience. Eyes were wide open and I was like, man, it was a real treasure to be able to say I was there that night.
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A
Well, I didn't have any notes. I had no. It just rolled off. But anyway. Now going back and ask you a question. What was like on the sailfish? Well, Jesus, where do I get start with that. Because when I was in New London, Connecticut, where I was trained on was old O boats and S boats and I don't know if you for me what an O boat or an S boat is, but it's almost like they had back in the 1800s and they didn't have any of the hydraulics, they didn't have any of the electronics, they didn't have this. And of course when they dive, hell, they want to get down by 50 to 75ft. That was it. So that's how we got trained. And then when I went through the tower, would you take 100 foot tower? And then I don't even think you do it today, but you had to go down 100 foot. Now here you're talking to a kids. Here's a kid 17 years old and jumping in a damn tire going down to 100ft. Hell I did. I was lucky if I knew how to swim. And so when I went down and in my ears begin to appear so dead terribly bad. And I thought they were going to burst. But I kept telling myself God damn, Bill, you used to, used to hang in there. And I got all the way down through and then got it up and I passed the test. And anyway, so going from that, that kind of a thing and then to the Groton, Connecticut with the O boats and. Yes boats and then going from there and what they did is they, when they sent me, I didn't go directly to the cell. Yes I did. No, no, no. When I left the, the lunches. No, I'm getting here with these think it was. I went to radio school first. And when I went to radio school everything came. I was fantastic in that. And so I went to radio school. I was so damn good on, on the Morse code that at the conclusion they, they wanted to send me to back then like a CA, they'd have CIA did but they told me it was a waste of my time to go on a submarine because the, the code was so slow where with the other quality of the security it was much faster than that. So I thought no, I want to go on submarine. So anyway, that's what I did. And they, so they sent me directly to the Sailfish. But when I went on the Sailfish in life In January of 1943, the cell phone was still going through a rebuilding process and it had been done yet and in fact you had about three more months to go before it had completed. So what they did, they sent me and Frank Dietrich to, to radio school there, right under the bridge there in Sacramento. We're the only guys on the boat that really knew anything about radar, whatever. And then the funny thing, I wasn't first class yet. I was only third class by the way, as a radio third class. And when I was at the. What's the name of the Royal Hawaiian Hotel and that's where I ran into Admiral Nimitz. And here I'm a third class radioman and Admiral Nimitz was there, so was his wife and what his wife said, sailor, would you like to take a picture with Admiral Nimitz? Raw hell's bells, who wouldn't? And I was shaking like Malik, here's the third trans regiment, for heaven's sakes talking to a five star admiral. So anyway, so I have a picture of Admiral Nimitz, me in front of the Royal Hotel and it's about the only one, only people that got it because everybody else is gone. Now to answer your question with respect to the sailboats of the sailfish, it was unbelievable because I went from rowboats to what they call a fleet boat. So now here's a fleet boat which is about 315ft long and about 27ft in diameter and weighed about 1500 tons and it's submerged. And then what they would do is that the, they would all the group before you became well qualified on a submarine. Because I'm going to tell you this because it's going to be very important to us as we go on to get qualified on a submarine. You have to learn everything about a submarine. I mean everything. You have to know how big it is, how long it is. You have to know where the water is, where you put the fuel. You have to know how to start the engines, how to shut down, how to shut down the engines. You have to know how to operate the battery, you have to have to operate the still for regular water. You had to knew how to fire torpedoes. You knew how to operate everything. But nobody yet to do everybody's job. But nobody could do my job. Nobody. There was no way that they were going to get into and know how radar works and operate the force code and be the, to be the total communication between that submarine and Pearl harbor and without. And that's not true for just me. That's true for that's true today. That's true with every, every radio, radar and sonar guy that is on a submarine. Without them, you might as well keep this submarine parked in Pearl harbor because it's not going to be good to anybody. So you depend so much on the radar. Radar guy. So but World War II, there was no such thing as a radio guy, a radar guy, a sonar guy, electronics guy, just one guy. There was one guy that was us. We did everything. Today it's all divided. But when we did it, we did it all. So we went aboard the selfish and we did with the roller training, we did all our stuff and I, I eventually became qualified on that boat. Okay, you know, go ahead.
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B
No, I was, you're, you know, when you, you're so humble when you, you talk about you're doing it. I mean, I don't think our guys today could do what you guys did because it just, it's you. You did everything hands on. And you, you also your, your humility. You're a hero, plain and simple, point blank. Forget Superman and Spider man and all that stuff. Real life hero. And some of your combat experiences and heroism. Can we talk about the major war patrols, you rescuing down pilots and the emotional weight of combat because you're in a tube with things exploding around you, planes flying above you. I mean, mentally that had to be tough because you, it's not like you could just walk off the ship and go hide somewhere.
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A
Yeah, well, let me tell you, let's go over a little bit here. Yes, the, the first war patrol we had was under Moore. And he was a, he was just a. He was like another father, quite frankly, because we're still only 17, 18 years old and he was like a father to us. But the war patrol we had with him was, was, was fantastic. And some of the people that went to the academy were really, really good guys too. But they all got dispersed, which I'll go on to as we go through this discussion. We got on. And so the, the first patrol we did pretty good. But when we got, when we went through the, the. The next patrol. Picture this now. We went to the next patrol and we got a guy on. His name was LeFeber, Lieutenant Commander. And he was, he was a. He ought to be. He ought to be court mostly today. And I've said that in my book we got to see. And I'm on the radar and I saw blip up blip after blip. And every time I saw a blip I reported. Oh, by the way, most time I spent in the conning tower, which we'll talk about later. But most of my time I spent in the conning tower. And that's where all the action was taking place always. And I was involved with just about every operation on that submarine from, for every single solitary war patrol. But this guy, he ran from everything. So we went, we went out with all of our fish. We came back with all information. I want you to picture this now. And so he was at. He had a war going on between him and the executive officer. And of course the crew really didn't know that too much was going on. But when we went back and he said what he was doing, he was patrolling and collecting intelligence information so he could report it when we back. Well, hell, Spells what good is. What good is a report that two months old when you go to see you. Because you go to sea for two months and you're going to go back and give him two months of data.
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B
Right.
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A
He's crazy. So what did they do? They transferred him and everybody else off of that boat except one guy, one or two men. I think it was one guy. Now picture this. Picture this. Now you're talking about, you know, what we were able to do. Now we come back and we're going out of Pearl harbor. And we. When we were at Pearl harbor, we. We had friends with, with their USS Sculpin, which was one SS 191. And we were running too. And we had together with barbecues and ball games and everything else, and we were going through repair together. But during repair, the sculpt had got ahead, got finished first, and they went to see three weeks ahead of us that we were supposed to go out together. But he went out. They were not first. But what happened to them? They got. They got sunk off a truck and they, they got 40. I think it was 41 were saved. And they put 40. They put 21 on one carrier and 20 another, which I'll talk about a little bit later. But they. But going on board the. That particular flight, we had a. A guy named Admiral Ward or Edward Ward. Picture this. Now, I tell you, you got to be qualified submarines on that submarine. And so when we got. So when we came aboard after. After the 9th War Patrol and came out and we got an entire new set of officers, I mean all new officers who knew nothing about that boat. Now you're going to war. How would you like to go that, knowing that that's the kind of officers that you're going to see with?
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B
Yeah, I wouldn't be too excited about that.
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A
I'm telling you, buddy, I'll tell you, it was. It was really something else. And so on that. Just take this for example. I said, you want to eventually edit all this nothing out.
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B
This is, this is your, this is your show, boss. And we're not editing nothing.
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A
I Coming out of Pearl harbor, what you do, you have. You call. You trim the boat and what am I trimming the boat? What we're talking about is, you know, we're taking in all torpedoes, we're taking in all of the, the food and everything else that. All the, all the equipment to take us for two months, all the food and everything. And so what. What he's supposed to do, he's supposed to go through his logarithm and he was supposed to figure out where everything is going and then making adjustments with respect to the water and the fuel and everything else on that separate. And so when you take your first dive, all you do is just really, just doing a re. Trim because he had done all the, all the work for that. And then what you're doing, you're doing the real thing and you're retrieving the boat based upon the real thing. Everything is on board. So what happened now you got to remember we had just transferred everybody off that boat and we got. These were a new set of officers and this was our first, the first dive coming out. And Rem Ward was the very first skipper that we had to get rid of these officers. Well, we took a first dive and we went straight down. I mean, we would normally, when you dive, you go anywhere from 2 to 5 degrees. And what we did on that one, then when we. Since he had failed to do that, the boat took over itself and it functioned as a, as a boat would normally function. And when we took the dive, holy cow, we go, we start going straight down. And to this day, we really don't know how far down we went, but we dove and we were going through 20, 25 degrees. Now the radio shack is right there in the control room and I'm in a radio shack at that particular time. And we were taking this dive and then all the, the control room is right there and Jesus, just a few guys, just a few guys who happened to be in the control room and I happened to be one of them along with the, the other guys handling the, the stern, you know, the stern, the sterns on the submarine. And hell's bells. And we watch that gauge up there, which he says it goes at 20ft, 30ft, 40ft, 50ft, 60ft, 70ft. And then pretty soon it went on because that, that thicken meter only showed like 100, 150, 170ft. It went by that like nothing flat.
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B
So you guys can 3, 400ft deep. Not even have been aware of it.
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A
Now we're just taking a first dive and we've done before. It's not a big problem. And anytime we took a dive, if I'm playing ball, if I'm playing cards, I play cards. If I'm eating, I eat. If I'm sleeping, I'm sleeping. That's where everybody was and they just were nonchalant. But not after this died. But anyway, after we died. And you picture this. Here's a submarine on an angle of 2025 degrees. And you're standing there and you're trying to manually open valves and close valves so that we can do something to protect that boat. And all you can do, you couldn't get any leverage. You're just really hanging on your feet are falling up from underneath you. And so instead of trying to open the valve, you're just hanging onto the valve. And so. But anyway, there was a one guy in foreign port on the port side. He immediately found what's going. He just lucky I know it's a guy. And the captain by the way, was sleeping and so he was able to blow that thing. And we kept going down, down, down. And then we turned very, very The. The screws were out of the water. As you can picture this. Such an ankle. The screws out of the water. Of course, you couldn't do anything until the boat got. Got into where the screws will take over. Well, I told you the boat is 315ft long. So that boat could be 200ft underwater and your screws are still sticking out. And so here we go. Down, down, down. But when it got in and then we were in major reverse. And then we very, very slowly it began to turn around and come up. And when we come out of the. When we came out of the water, we came out of the water almost straight up. And when. When it came out of the water and then it slammed down on the ocean floor. Ocean water. We thought the damn thing was going to break in half. We scared to death. Well, anyway, talk about. Like I said, John told you, you got a guy who helps know. I'll tell you anything and everything because it's all. It's all in my memory. And none of that is in the logs.
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B
None of it.
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A
You don't find. Right. If you read the logs on that patrol, you won't find not one single solitary word about that. But it's in my book.
- [32:14]
B
Yeah, let's talk about that book a little bit because I got my team that ordered it for me. Can we can then the people. Because we get people. We watch this and I watch this on video too. Can. Can someone hand you the. I know it was there earlier and then we lost it. But just so we get a picture and they. Everyone can see John come in. It's all good. It's not that. Yeah, he's not panicking now. He was on the floor just a second. You take all the time you need, boss.
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A
This is a ball.
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B
Yeah, there it is. Strike of the sailfish.
- [32:49]
A
I want to tell you about that book.
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B
Yes, sir.
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A
You see right up here in the front.
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B
Yes.
- [32:53]
A
What this was. I served aboard the Sailfish in World War II. This is a true story. And it's actual. You'll find stuff in these books you won't find in the logs anywhere. And so I don't believe. I don't believe logs anymore. The Japanese logs are the American logs. They only put in the logs what is favorable to the officers.
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B
Yes.
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A
They don't put anything in there that's going to jeopardize their promotions. And I'll talk. And I want to talk to you.
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B
About that a little later because that hurts everybody. Because if you don't talk about what doesn't work, you can't fix it.
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A
That's right. I, I, I got so many things I want to say. And I know we'll go through them all.
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B
Well, then we'll have you back.
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A
Just give me. I know you want to talk about other things, the things I want to do.
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B
No, sir. This is your show. I'm here to. L I'm, I am just like the audience. I am so honored just to listen. I will take every story you want to share until they tell me we're out of time. And then we'll do a part. 2, 3, 4. How many times you want to.
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A
If you, if you, if you lobby, I'll move. I'll move back and forth, type the thing. Okay.
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B
Do whatever you want, sir. I'm just, I'm, I'm excited and happy to listen.
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A
But anyway, so here's this here. We brought these officers board and brand new. They knew nothing about the boat. And that's the reason why I think we always lost a boat. But it's not in, it's not in the logs anywhere, shape or form. And I can understand why it's not there either. Because Bob Ward had just been picked out to head the Sailfish because they kicked out all of the officers and this was his first patrol. And if it went the logs, I swear that what I've said many times. We should have turned that damn submarine right, went back to Pearl, kicked that guy's ass off, off that boat and saw him again. But it didn't. We went out on patrol. But anyway, Bob Ward, I know didn't have to put it at the logs because if he did, I wouldn't doubt that they probably would have threw him off. Okay.
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B
Yeah, right.
- [35:02]
A
For. Because you don't. Sure. Because all the officers under his command. So anyway, the, the fact that he didn't do that, it Scared the Jesus out of all the rest of us. Now, as far as, as far as the depth charges you look at, if you look at the logs, the officers didn't check. The officers didn't check. Keep check of the, the depth charges we want, but us enlisted guys did. And when you look at the book and you only see this, that does. We had 135 depth charges on one approach period on one. 135. When you look that in the book, you find, well, maybe they had two or three. In other words, the officers, they really didn't care about that, but God damn it, we did.
- [35:53]
B
You know, yeah, I would care about 150 explosions. I mean, people don't. The depth charge is trying to blow you up.
- [36:01]
A
You bet your life. And, and listen to this. We weren't scared. We were not scared. And like I said, I was a Catholic and the way I lived and I still am today is that, hey, when my time's up, he's going to call me. And during the war, whenever you see any movie that you ever see about subrays, I wish the holy Jesus that they would have had me on there and commenting on it because it must be B.S. we did. I better say, hey, no, we did not. When we sunk a ship, we did jump up a thousand yard holler and holler. We did not. We all, we did. We did our job. And when we sunk a ship, we were glad that. We were glad we did it. We did. We weren't happy because we felt they're like us and those guys are fighting their war just like we're fighting our war. And nobody, nobody asked us to do it, you know, do this type of thing. I mean the guys in Washington and Japan or whatever, they don't go out and do these kind of things. But no, we did new. We did not do that. And the 12 guys that we saved on that one patrol, we were, we were not. Our job was not to dive to save guys. And we did. We saved 11 guys on one flight and we saved one more the next day because we heard he was still out there. We picked him up. But we had one guy. I'm going to tell you this because it's, it's interesting. Whenever the, I was on, I was on the telephone talking to the, the fighters up there in the, in the battle for Mosa, Battle of Lady. They got all kind of names for that particular battle. But I'm on the phone and I'm talking to the pilots up there and talking about, boy, they're swearing At a. Hollering and yelling. And in fact that's all they were doing, yelling. I'm trying to. Here we're out there trying to save them and I'm trying to tell the guys, hey, if you. If you. If you ran out of fuel and you're getting shot down or something, make damn sure you had that boat, that airplane towards our submarine. Because the further out you go and drop that water for several hours, you we. By the time we get there, you're dead. Y And on the phone talk, trying to do that, you couldn't get through it. You have to holler, you have to yell at them, say God damn. Shut up a minute.
- [38:33]
B
Yeah.
- [38:33]
A
And this is the way to fight it. And I'm sure we weren't the only ones to do that. But we had one guy that would. Bud. Not. Not Bud. Yeah, Ray, but Ray but who's a just. He was about two years older, but he was also a master diver. He jumps off the bow planes and he swims over to one of the planes and gets his pilot out of there because he was strapped in, couldn't get out. And the plane's going down and he gets about there and brings it back the boat and saves his life. Now picture this now in. When the truck. Whenever the scalper was sunk and the skipper. Not the skipper but the commander of the task group decided to stay on board when the ship went down and gave his life because he didn't want to be tortured. And what had he felt that he knew too much about the. You know, the. What was going on with respect to the. Our breaking the code for the. For the Japanese. And so he would download. But he got the medal of honor. He got the medal of honor. Now picture this. No 20 guys. The 21 guys. I'm just talking about the 20. The 20 guys who died first. They were in truck and they would put on these. Put on this carrier that we suck. And whenever they got a picture they three before they had just been sunk. Here they are not going back to Japan and we sunk them. And these were friends of mine. These are people who. Three weeks before that we were at barbecues and everything else. But we didn't know that after the war and then we would be sunk it. And all they got today as of right now. So I'm talking to you. All they got today is a proper heart. Well, for cripe's sake, the corporate. You give the. You give the skipper the medal of honor for going down for the vote. And there's these two guys here's the guys getting get shot down twice and they're all dying and all they got was a Purple Heart. And George Rocheck, which I talked to after the war. I told him everything we're doing to sink them. And he told me everything they were doing to save themselves. And I'm the only one who could tell you that story. But how George Roch was saved, which I won't go through now if I could. But anyway it wasn't until after the war we found out. So what I'm trying to do is. It is that I think two things. I think the. What we ought to do is we got to get the medals for those 20 guys that got sunk on that carrier that we suck for more medals than just the Purple Heart. In other words, they should get broad stars or they ought to get.
- [41:27]
B
Whatever freedom something.
- [41:30]
A
The reason why I say that because it's their family that can benefit by the. By that. And even today here I'm talking about 20, 26. There are their grandkids out there. If they knew that their grandpa or their father, you know, you got these medals now they're entitled to it. So I'm working my buttons off to. To get them more than just what the normal crazy bureaucratic stuff just gives them. The second thing I'm going to do, which I'm trying to do. And picture this, I never heard anybody else want to do it. I want to get. I want to get medals only for the enlisted man. In other words, there's. I like for example, if you're. If I'm a good radio a radar guy or a technician or whatever I am and I do a good job and it's outstanding job then why don't you give me a recognition that you can give me a promotion or you can say give me a whatever big. So I'm trying. What I'm trying to do. I want the. I want the. The whole government to come up with a new set of medals only for the enlisted man. In other words.
- [42:42]
B
That's a great idea.
- [42:44]
A
The Mr. Man. You look at the logs of any place, you won't find guys enlisted guys, but you will find guys like me. Say BS My God. Without us, this, without us, you're nothing. You're absolutely nothing. And anybody can say do this, do that, do this, do that. But when you say the guys that do it, that's. Those are the people you really need.
- [43:07]
B
The guys under their fingernails and the risks.
- [43:10]
A
What I'd like to see is I'd like to come up with a Whole set of bills for nobody but the enlisted guy.
- [43:15]
B
And I'm 1000% behind that. And I will help any way I can, sir. Because I feel like there needs to be recognition for those that came before us. Not just that, we need to also recognize that it's about the work. It's about the effort, the blood, the sweat, the tears. Like for example, now, I, I. One of the things I heard when you were giving your speech, Is it true that you were the only guy who never switched out during the time on the, on the cell phone, you never ever took a leave?
- [43:47]
A
No, no, no. And guys came and went and they never wanted, they never transferred me, ever. And I stayed when I went on board. And then I was part of the decommissioning crew when we decommissioned it in 1945. And then the funny thing about that. Jesus, John told you you wound up in taught her. But anyway, what happened later when I graduated from college, then I was in Portsmouth, New Hampshire, and my wife and I and we were invited to the launching of the second Sailfish. And of course it's the decommission success. So we were. So not only did I serve at the first Sailfish, but also was. Came and went on the very second one, the USS Sailfish. So. And it's crazy the way things. And then after I graduated, within, let's see, within, within four years at Portsmouth, New Hampshire. Picture this now in Portsmouth, New Hampshire, I was offered the job of, of heading the. Taking over the complete department for all the electronics that, that on board, that both the new submarines and the submarines are being repaired. In other words, here's a first class, right? Went through World War II. He came out and here he is just because he got a little bit of education. And now Portsmouth, New Hampshire, and they offered me a GS11. I don't know if you know what GS11 was in 1945, but that was a fantastic promotion without taking any kind of test. So they wanted me to head up the whole damn thing. And I couldn't take it. I had to take it. Turn it down. Why did I do that?
- [45:38]
B
Yeah, why did you do that?
- [45:40]
A
Because my wife didn't like Portsmouth was too cold, the mosquitoes were too bad, and everything else.
- [45:46]
B
So no matter how many missions of heroism and how much ass you kicked all over the world, when you went home, you were the commander in chief, was still the wife. And you know what? I can relate to that. As much as big and strong as I am at my house, it's yes, ma', am, no Ma'.
- [46:03]
A
Am. Well, would your wife do this for you? But when I got transferred to New York, she didn't like to work either. I was set right across the street from the stock exchange, and I was assigned the BMARs, if you never know what a BMAR is. The basic Missile Program that was started for the first time. And they had me. They had me writing up the instructions on how to run the electronics equipment. And I hadn't seen the first one. All they did was. Gave me a bunch of books and I read. Then I had to write destructions on how to. How to check it out. Well, in the meantime, my wife took my resume and sent it down to RCA in Cal. In Florida. And here they got a letter to mail, and they offered me a promotion and a job and more money and a warmer climate, and they had the rca. And I asked my wife, I said, what's this? She says, I sent me a resume. Well, long story short, I. I followed my wife's discretion and I quit and I went to work for rca.
- [47:08]
B
And that's. And that's why you're a brilliant man. You know. You know what hill to fight and when to say yes, ma'. Am. And so you guys met in high school, your high school sweetheart, right?
- [47:18]
A
Oh, yeah. I met her when she was 13. I met her. She was 18. I married. I married when she was 18 and had seven beautiful children from her. In fact, January 5th of this year, that would have been our 80th wedding at her 80th. And of course, I lost her eight years ago. And how I lost her. I lost her on a corner of Tampa and Victory Boulevard at the intersection here, where a girl on a cell phone crashed in front of us. And total, both of our cars broke her. My wife broke ribs, snapped her neck and rushed to the hospital. And she couldn't survive. It took her 14 months before she passed. She couldn't when she was a fighter like you. Right. So I lost her. The eight years. It'll be eight years. April. April of this year. So. So we would have been separated. 80th wedding anniversary. God Almighty.
- [48:15]
B
Anyway, no, that's. No, that's not. Anyway, that's a. And you. You found strength in that. Because that's. I mean, you say soulmate, but that is a. That is. You have been together so long, you're one person. You finish each other's sentences, you know, like, you know, it's. It's. It's a beautiful. It's a beautiful thing and I think is something that we should never it's not a sweep under the rug. That is part of what that type of support is what it was able to help you continue to do what you do and strive because as a man, you, you want to be able to provide for your wife and make her proud of you and, and you grow together and it's a, you know, that's a lot to overcome. You know, she was a one man.
- [49:02]
A
Woman and I was a one woman man. And that's the way life went. The way it was then, that's the way it is now. That's the way I've got to lead, you know. Anyway. What. Where do you want to go next?
- [49:15]
B
Well, you know what I want to talk about just some advice because we could, because we're going to run this back. But one of the things I, and listen, I don't do lists, notes, they will tell you, but I wanted to make sure that we talked about all the things that are important because I, you and I would still just be talking about you in a depression, but I want to talk about you. I'd like you to reflect on life in 100 years. I mean that's. You have seen so much in the world changing. And what a. And some advice for us because a lot of us, we didn't. As tough as your upbringing was, it was the roots of the work ethic, it was the roots of your determination and your character and, and of course you were great at math because everything in your life counted, you know, and.
- [50:16]
A
You will never see that again. You will never see that again.
- [50:21]
B
Well, you are the, you are part of the greatest generation, hands down, not even close. And, and we, we need to remember and honor that. So if you could just. And how. Whatever you want to talk about, but.
- [50:36]
A
If, Let me tell you, let me tell you something. Within the last two months or something like that. Nobody ever heard of me until 2019. Nobody. And. And there is nobody. This is not bragging in any way, shape or form. I don't embellish what I did. I don't brag about what I did.
- [51:00]
B
Not bragging if you did it right.
- [51:01]
A
Oh no, I don't do that. But I will take it. There are facts because in fact speak for themselves. They speak for themselves. So how many guys, you know came out here like a young guy like that? And then when I, after the war, I'm more proud of what I did after the war on that and just. I'm going to scatter around a little bit. Is that the one of the things that they. RCA had to do with it. We used to. When you run a test on a launch vehicle, you got to remember, here's the guy come from submarines for health bills. I didn't work on space or anything like that. But we were checking our vehicles where it take three to five days to do whether or not you passed type of things. In other words, why would you do that? Because you got 12 to 15 systems on board launch vehicle. And then you have to run the, you know, the, the tests on them, and then you have to verify whether or not you passed all the tests. Well, of course, you have to have the guys in charge of each one of these systems. And it's the guys that, looking at all the data whether you decide whether you're, whether you go or no go. Okay, okay. Now you would take three to five days before it's over. I said, this is absolutely, totally nonsense. So I went to school and I learned how to write. I used to write. Learned how to write software. And so what I did was I came back. I was still working at the time, but I go into school at nighttime. And when I began to learn the software, I said, this is crazy. Why aren't we using software to do this? So anyway, I had a team of guys up that took two years to do it. And I worked with IBM. I got IBM to loan me a whole bunch of equipment. Free, free. They didn't. I didn't have to pay him a God dang dime. They loaned me all the equipment and software. Now, I want you to picture this just a moment. But I told you earlier, you're going to have to edit. All.
- [53:12]
B
Things are.
- [53:13]
A
I'm trying to. I'm trying to write software. Now when I'm trying to write software, I'm working with all the guys who have, who are responsible for all the systems. Now each guy, as you, as you fly a trajectory, there's certain data points along that trajectory that you have to verify that, you know, you hit that particular spot at that particular time doing it at that particular amount of time and with that kind of measurement. And they were the only ones that had the secrets of what those, what those numbers were. Now I'm writing software now. You try to get that information out of all these guys you talk about. I cried so damn many times because I got sick and tired of talking to him. Whether it's. But okay, you got a number here. Now how good is that number? What's the plus? What, what's the minus? If you're, if you're going to give a go or no go. And it's not right on your number, but it's very. What is that number? What is the high number? What's the low number? In other words, trying to get that kind of information. A guy and writing the software. It was almost impairable, it was almost impossible. But I did it and I developed the very first quality control of software because these guys would make a change. And then when we, when we run the test I was failing, I'm saying, why do. Well, because they changed the damn numbers. So I said, but now you don't change any numbers. The only one, the only person can change the numbers. Me, right? Me, Bill, personally, the only one that can change the number. So when they stuck to it, then we had three launches to prove we could do it. And by God, everybody. That's the system they use today. And that's the system that NASA used with them. That's only one, that's just only one, one thing. And then they called me out here in California. They had a team for 21 engineers for David Packard, who was assistant Secretary of the Navy back then, or Defense. Anyway, you wanted a Packard. And I said no, I don't want the job. He said yes you do. I said no, I don't because I've got kids going to school here. I don't want to go. So I said, well, you're going to come. And my wife wanted to come to, she wanted to come to California. So I came out here and so I headed the team and we developed that, that particular thing, which is a gps. So I did the ground system on the gps. Now I don't know if you can picture what the GPS is, okay, I'm talking about 1970 now. And the word GPS could even be said because it was. The word was still classified secret. And so it gave us a job to do this. Here I am trying to work the ground system, which I did and we wound up with four classified documents, secret documents back then and you'll find me was the lead as a lead director for all the whole system. But you also see me with the author documented the classified direction ground system for GPS. That was 1970. Now for 1970 I worked from January of 1970 till September of 1970 I worked 90 hours a week. I want to tell you, 90 hours a week and never, I never took a day off except at the end I took one day out to go to mass because we were near the program. But 90 hours a week. Now when we fill our time cards out, we could only put on 40 hours on the time cards. And so it was a corruption in the worst word, where they worked us to death, the 90 hours. We can only record 40. But anyway, I did that for nine 90 hours. Type that. So I looked back at it and I said, geez, I had to give up almost a year of my life, tried to raise my kids and everything else for really, for my country, seriously. And if I. If you asked me to tell you how GPS work, I'd be talking to you for here at the end of the next week because it's a super, super, super complete, very complicated system. And nobody would ever believe what the hell we did in 1970. Now picture this out. It was. We did that work in 1970. And so it's all documented. The first launch didn't occur until 1978. First launch, and it takes. It took 18 satellites to get up there to have a complete system. 18. Now, how long do you think it took? 18. We didn't become fully operational till 1994.
- [57:57]
B
What?
- [57:57]
A
So that's right, 1994, when we first became operational, GPS. So here we are, we did it. 1970. Didn't have a damn launch vehicle big enough to launch all these things till 78. And then it took 18 launches to get the various constellations up. Now picture the constellations. Now you got three constellations up there with six. With six satellites each of the constellation. Tell me how the hell you got each one. How do we get six satellites in each constellation? How do we do that?
- [58:30]
B
Beats me.
- [58:30]
A
How'd we get. How do we get it at 12,500ft? How do we do that? How the hell. In order to run GPS, you have to have. You have to know four GPSs. In other words, in a six satellite, as one goes down, one's coming up. As two gets down, two is coming up. So you got to see four satellites all at the same time. You know, why do you need four? Why you need four? You only need three normally, but you need four because you need that fourth one to give you the time that you're seeing for each one of the. Each one of the data points. So when you pick up your iPhone today, you look at your maps and everything else today. Boy, I'll tell you what, somebody ought to thank you. I'm gonna tell you, that's what I say.
- [59:17]
B
Marriages you have saved. Do you know how many marriages you have saved with being able to have gps? Because map arguments are probably, probably one of the biggest causes for divorce in this country. You know, you're trying. You gotta because you know what? It's funny. If you broke a map out today, if I. If I gave my kids a map and I said, listen, I'm going to disappear and I'm going to go sit with $10,000 in cash and all you got to do is is follow this map to where I'm at. I would be able to. I would never see my kids again. They would be walking in circles. So that's one thing GPS has, has helped a lot. I mean, it's to the point where people don't function without it. They. Even if they've been to a place 10 times, they'll still GPS it because it's become. It's become almost like a life vest. Pardon the pun, but you know, but. And, and to listen to your 17 years old, last one to eat growing up, decided to walk, walk on to defend his country. Becomes one of the greatest radio satellite submarine guys there is. Then helps build GPS by maintaining a healthy marriage, raising children. Sir, the government needs to do right by you. And this is something that we need to strongly look at. I'm running out of time because we're going to put a pause in this. But we need to bring you back.
- [60:46]
A
Because this exactly what I was going to tell you. I was going to say, hey, look, there's just too much to say.
- [60:52]
B
It's not enough for one episode. So I'm hoping, hoping you will come back because we are going to make this a priority to where the. The thing that is that hurt my heart is hearing you talk about you don't feel like your government.
- [61:06]
A
I want you to read something for before we can meet next time. Yes, I want you.
- [61:10]
B
Well, I'm going to have that book read this weekend.
- [61:12]
A
So I want. And when you read it, I want to read the epilogue. I want to read the epilogue. I'm more probably. But no. There's a. There's a plaque that I have that was given to me by Lieutenant General Barry for the consolidated Space Operations. I want you to see that plaque. And I'm going to have John send it to you. I want you to read the words that it said to me that summarizes my entire life of what the hell I've done for this country. And I. You will. I don't care how long you live. You will never run into another guy like me. You will. No, you should. You won't. And why I'm here. Hell, I don't know, but I'm here. I. I think I'm here to tell the story.
- [61:57]
B
I. I would I would 1000% support that. And. But you're also a role model. There's a lot of us that when we start bitching and crying about our life, it's nice to have. Well, look what this man did with far less than the opportunities that you have. In a time when it was the biggest. When you were poor in this country and struggling, there wasn't a lot of opportunities, and you took every opportunity you could. You turned and you made it into something phenomenal. You, sir, are an American treasure, and I cannot wait to have you back on. And again, thank you so much for sharing the stage with me. That was a thrill of a lifetime, man. You. You are lightning in a bottle. People don't. If. If you have anyone watching this, if you have any brains, if you have young men you're trying to mold, if you're trying to inspire people, you should be. Your speaking events should be. You should be locked in. But we are going to steal you as many times as we can on here because there's so much information. Thank you so much for your service, sir. Thank you for what you've done to our country and what you've. You've inspired me and many others, and.
- [63:01]
A
I appreciate your people like that. You want to listen to me? I feel good about that.
- [63:06]
B
Yeah, you should. I feel good about that. And again, thank you so much. Can you hold the book up one more time so that people can see it? I love the title. The Strike of the Selfish. That is my thing.
- [63:18]
A
I want to show you the back.
- [63:19]
B
Yes, sir.
- [63:21]
A
You see that back?
- [63:22]
B
Yes, sir.
- [63:23]
A
Okay. That's my crew. Every single solitary. That picture is gone in the Last Stand. And I insisted that the author put that in this book because I. I cry when I see that. I still have a hell of a problem with that because.
- [63:41]
B
Because I would cry, too, sir. As you should. You. You are the last of your kind, and you guys were all cut from a different cloth. And I hope we at this country, we can emulate that. And while we have a treasure like you have a treasure like you, we should continue to get more, as many stories as we can. Are you. Because here's the thing about history, it repeats itself. And it would be nice to have a blueprint of how to do things right when the time comes.
- [64:10]
A
Do you know General Flynn?
- [64:11]
B
Yes, sir. Not personally, but I've been. He gave me the award the year before, and I was completely humbled and honored. And then the next year, I wanted to come back just to show my support, and we did that. And then at the same time, I got a treat of a thrill of a lifetime getting to hear you speak, sir.
- [64:29]
A
Let's talk to him sometime. He and I are here, and our friends. I talked to him this morning already, but he's a super, super guy. And. And he's a lot like me. He's been shafted. Shafted. Shafted. And he's still trying it. And here I am going on 102. But damn it, I'm still. I'm still wired up as you are.
- [64:48]
B
Still, you're fired up. And we're gonna get. We're gonna get on top of this stuff. Sir. Thank you so much. You have a wonderful day. Thank your people for making this happen. This was a thrill. Thank you, sir.