← Planet Tyrus
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- [00:00]
Butch Wilmore
When you're laying on your back in a rocket that's about to propel you literally into the heavens and you're literally leaving the planet and you realize that that's what's taking place.
- [00:11]
Tyrus
You're leaving the planet 464 days in space.
- [00:16]
Butch Wilmore
Yeah. You don't plan for that. And you're looking down at the aurora and you're just like, wow, Lord, how did I get here?
- [00:30]
Tyrus
Well, first of all, thank you so much for doing this American astronaut, which is sexy again. Everyone's talking about it now. That's got to feel good.
- [00:39]
Butch Wilmore
That's. That's, that's not a bad position to have. For sure.
- [00:42]
Tyrus
No. And. But retired U.S. navy captain, thank you for your test pilot. That's a whole different level of courage. Some would even say that's wild.
- [00:52]
Butch Wilmore
You know, when you plot through life, the Lord allows you to get certain. Do certain things, and that was one of them.
- [00:57]
Ryan
So.
- [00:57]
Butch Wilmore
Yeah, I'm grateful for that as well.
- [00:59]
Tyrus
So I have a close friend of mine named PJ who likes to jump out of planes. And he's for fun and.
- [01:06]
Butch Wilmore
No, thank you.
- [01:07]
Tyrus
No, I'm good. He even wore. He got to the point where he had so many jumps, he wore that flying batsuit thing.
- [01:13]
Butch Wilmore
Oh, my.
- [01:13]
Tyrus
Yeah. But the nice thing is he's also an inch and a half shorter now because he's broken his legs about 15 different. At some point, you're like, bro, please stop.
- [01:21]
Butch Wilmore
But we're all wired different, aren't we, Tyrus? Yeah, that's not for me.
- [01:26]
Tyrus
But you're. Let's not. 464 days in space.
- [01:32]
Butch Wilmore
Yeah. You don't plan for that. It kind of just worked out that way. And the last day was a little longer than expected. Well, okay. A lot longer than expected. And that's where that number grows. It was about way less than half of that. But as we trudged through it and all and did everything, you know, living through the life of space station and then, you know, that's, that's actually. It could have been longer. I think President Trump and them kind of got. Came in and they swapped around some spacecraft that were in process of being prepared and they got one ready quicker and then they came up and got us and you know all as well.
- [02:05]
Tyrus
Can you. Obviously, it's one of those things that experiencing it is something. I don't know if you could ever project that feeling. But what. How could you best describe you were not on Earth? Like, I mean, it's. You're in the atmosphere. Like, I Mean, what is it a.
- [02:26]
Butch Wilmore
Well, actually, yeah, we're actually above the atmosphere. I think that's the point, the point that really gets you when you're laying on your back on a, in a rocket that's about to propel you in literally into the heavens and you're literally leaving the planet and you realize that, that that's what's taking place. You're leaving the planet and it's such a unique opportunity. So many, few people have had the opportunity. And it's, it's quite humbling. Tyrus. It really is that you, you know, it's a privilege to serve your country in any fashion and to serve your nation in this fashion is certainly very, very special. And I think that's the thing that, at least for me and others that I've spoken with, that's what really gets you. You know, you're, you're, you're not just leaving home. Like I said, you're leaving, you're leaving the planet. And. Yeah, and you don't know in this case, you know, there's no givens. You expect to come back on time as scheduled. But things can change and can happen and they did with us, I imagine.
- [03:20]
Tyrus
Stress level was, was really high. Your family must have been on edge too, you know, because you, you know, that's just something that, yeah, you'd think
- [03:29]
Butch Wilmore
that, but really the stress level is not super high because like I said, you've. Honestly, Tyrus, I trained for decades, not for this specific mission, but just flying off aircraft carriers, flying in combat test pilot, doing the things that just kind of came away of life and then into the astronaut program and the responsibility that you have. And you've got to be committed, you got to be all in. And that commitment breeds preparation. So we prepare beyond what we expect, way beyond what we expect. As a matter of fact, we prepared for a long duration stay on space station, even though that wasn't the plan. And that's what wound up happening. We were trained to do spacewalks, we were trying to work the robot arm, which we did all of that and do the maintenance, do the science, all of that. So, you know, the training is far, far greater than what you actually expect to do or what you plan to do. And in this case, it all paid off. So the stress level, there is some stress associated with it. Absolutely. But to the extent of what you're doing, you're like we've said, leaving the planet. You have that opportunity to fly in space and serve your country in that fashion. And it's an Honor to do so, even if you. If you get extended. Right.
- [04:35]
Tyrus
Well, you know, and because I think of, you know, you hear terms like cabin fever, and I can. I can remember just being in the room with my kids for longer than eight hours going, I got to get out of here. You know what I mean?
- [04:50]
Butch Wilmore
I do.
- [04:51]
Tyrus
And you're up there with other human beings, with other mindsets. I mean, was there ever a point where you guys just needed to not talk for a while, or is it just you have other things you're just focused on?
- [05:02]
Butch Wilmore
You know, it happens with anyone.
- [05:05]
Tyrus
Oh, yeah. I'm just. Yeah, you just can't walk outside. And I'm gonna take 10.
- [05:09]
Butch Wilmore
Exactly.
- [05:09]
Tyrus
You know.
- [05:10]
Butch Wilmore
Yeah. My mindset was this is a professional evolution of not just my life, but the other people I'm around as well.
- [05:17]
Tyrus
Right.
- [05:17]
Butch Wilmore
And I want to make it the best professional evolution they've ever experienced as far as I. What I can do. That's my goal. And when, you know, things do happen, things do get crossed sometimes, and it just. It's inevitable. You just have to put it aside, put it away and go forward and press forward again with that mindset. I need to make this great for them. Can I best do that? And right now, that's me biting my lip and pressing forward with the plan of the day. Sometimes it does come to that because
- [05:44]
Tyrus
you are the ambassador for. For America, you know, and for. There's young men and women that are going to see your experiences and be inspired by that. That's gotta be a tremendous honor for you that you are starting a. I mean, honestly, as long as that trip, was it the nice. The. One of the positive things that came out of that was people started talking about space exploration again. It wasn't just, you know, sending robots to Mars. People were talking about, we need to have somebody, a man walking on the moon again. We need to start, you know, investing in that. And a president was all in on that, which is nice. And then, of course, you have the private sector, you know, Elon Musk and Bezos and things like that. So I think people were. Before, maybe you would have just a small group of pilots like, hey, I want to do it now. You're going to have young men and women. From the time they're telling, I'm going to be in it. I remember when I compare it to when the first time the new spacecraft came out, it was that when it. When the. I always think Challenger because of that. That moment. Because that's. Unfortunately, that's probably the last time we had TVs in the classroom because it was a thing, you know, like the world stopped to watch, you know, and then that tragedy kind of everyone. You didn't. People got afraid. It was because the. The fear is real. Every takeoff there, that is there. Whether you, you know, all the best preparations, things go wrong. But I just remember that space shuttle was on every toy it was. And everyone wanted that Christmas. You know, I remember even the Transformers made a Transformer out of it. You know, I. I was one of the first ones I wanted. He was a. He turned into a train in the. In a space shuttle. I was there, you know, and it was. I had the arm and you know, like, it was just. But it was. It was inspiring, you know, and you'll never forget that shuttle. And now I'm wondering they need to change that style or bring that back. Because I think if it's a kid that kids can play with and build imagination with, this goes to that.
- [07:48]
Butch Wilmore
Yeah, you're exactly right. The concept of flying in space is something I think that's been imagined for millennia. I think people look into the heavens and they think, wow, what if we could go there? And now that we actually have gone there and are going there, here's what we do. We go and we've been doing it. The space station has been completely continuously manned. It's been somewhat on space station for 26 years. And that gets kind of put to the side.
- [08:13]
Tyrus
Yeah.
- [08:14]
Butch Wilmore
Like we're launching news to me and
- [08:16]
Tyrus
the guy who's in the news, and I was like, there's been somebody up there that long.
- [08:20]
Butch Wilmore
Right. And so. But then you have something different, like what happened with us. It puts the focus back on it and the people see what's really taking place. How we do manage difficult situations in real time, which is what happened with us with Starliner. You know, we had a six spacecraft and yet we were still able to get it docked because the crew on board, us on board, and also the ground teams coming together real time in the short hairs, if you will, to make some. Some fixes so we could get successfully docked because not docking, we weren't sure what our options would be. And we did that and we go forward with that. And then of course, the plan is how we're going to get us home. And we understand the focus and it puts the focus on us, but you see how well it all plays out. And it truly. Tyrus, it's a success story. It had some low points. Yes. That's what got us there. Absolutely. And those details are not pretty, but overall, how it played out, success story, and that's typically normally what you see with our human space flight program. It's not perfect. There's been tragedies, as we know, but going forward, if we're going to do these big things, like back to the moon, around the moon, like we just did, boots on the. Hopefully by the end of 2028, that'll be very hard, but maybe we can make it and all those things. It does poke the imagination of all people. And I can tell you, I was an astronaut for 25 years, and the public in general that I interacted with were all always proponents of continuing to go higher, faster and further. And our national resolve was not that. As a matter of fact, just real quick for history, for you and your watchers and listeners, we had a plan. The Constellation program was to take us back to the moon. And this was back during the Bush administration, Bush 2, in the 2000s. And we were headed back on that. On that path. And then we had a change of regime. President Obama came in and that program was shelved, it was canceled, it was laid aside, but we still continued to work on it in the background, if you will. And it wasn't really until President Trump came back in that it got lit a fire again to go back and pursue those capabilities to get back beyond low Earth orbit and into the, you know, the lunar area of the moon. And that really started to stoke the fire again to go forward and make this happen again as it should have on the path we were on back, like I said, in the 2000s. So we took the architecture that we had, the spacecraft that we had, what we were building, kind of transform a little bit to what we have now with the Artemis program. And. And be quite honest, in the last couple of years, the Artemis architecture, very challenging to do to get us to the surface of the Moon. It was a very, very challenging architecture. Everything together, how we were, the processes we were gonna launch and the number of launches and in space, refueling of cryogenic fuels and all that, which the gory details are gory, but it's just very challenging. And now with the new administration, Administrator Isaac, we're tweaking that to make it more viable, more, more timely, if you will, to where we can get the service and eventually get to the South Pole. So things are changing even now, and it's changing fast, and it's exciting, and that's what the people see, that's what the people hear, and it is invigorating because literally we're leaving the planet not just leaving this planet, we're going to another heavenly body. And that's exciting.
- [11:38]
Tyrus
You know, it's funny, when I was wrestling one of my catchphrases when I was talking about, talking about somebody has always be like, hey, you're not, you're not a rocket surgeon. And you literally just said you had a sick spaceship. So you are a rocket surgeon
- [11:54]
Butch Wilmore
in certain respects.
- [11:55]
Tyrus
We do that too, you know, because the thing. Oh, it's not rocket scientists. So I wanted to be. Well, it's not rocket surgery. And you just said we had a six. And I was like, who knew? And that is you. I gift that to you that you should have a T shirt that says America's rocket Surgeon. Your whole crew.
- [12:10]
Butch Wilmore
Maybe I'll do that.
- [12:11]
Tyrus
That is all yours, sir. And before we get into stuck in space, just, just like a. You're up there, right? And it's let's say two in the morning and everyone's asleep and you're looking out at these, these galaxies and stars and meteorites and stuff. Was there, was there ever times where your imagination kind of got away from you? Like, what was that like? Could that be, you know, like. Because we're down here doing that, you know, and you're up there. And again, I'm not trying to get like, oh, I saw a footprint. I'm not anybody. I'm just as in a human emotion, you know, it's like you, you, you, things get, you see movies, you're a part of things. You know, we have all the. Some people say there's aliens, this, that, whatever. But was there ever a part of this moment where you're just like, huh? It was.
- [13:04]
Butch Wilmore
Nah, not like that. But I'll tell you a moment on spacewalks. I did five spacewalks in total of over 32 hours out in the vacuum of space in the one man space capsule shaped like a person, right?
- [13:18]
Tyrus
Yeah.
- [13:18]
Butch Wilmore
And it's got a 180 degree view, the bubble helmet and all. And it's, it's, it's thrilling to be out there and then, and then be on the dark side of the planet as we're orbiting the planet 17,500 miles an hour. So you go around every 90 minutes, you go to the dark side of the planet and you're looking down at the aurora, the colors of the aurora, the reds and the greens as it's flickering and twisting and turning through the magnetization of the Earth. And then in the middle of the aurora, aurora, as you're looking at it, you see A shooting star not above you, but below you because you're above the atmosphere. And you see the, you know this, whatever the particle is, it's entering the atmosphere and a big fireball goes, goes across below you and it's, and you're just like, wow, Lord, how did I get here? You know, why me? I mean, it's truly humbling when you really, you know where you're at and then you're trying to take it all in and the emotions, as you say, it's hard to put them into words. The magnitude of it all. You know, you're looking down, you see the aurora, you see a shooting star below you, you look up, you see the Milky Way and all of its grandeur. The thickness of the cloud, of the stars and the more colors in the stars because you're above the atmosphere. So it's not filtered and it's just, it's just, it's just awe inspiring. It just truly, like I said, it's very humbling to be in that position.
- [14:38]
Tyrus
I can't remember which astronaut, but he said it was. He described as like a heavenly out of body experience where you're just witnessing something.
- [14:47]
Butch Wilmore
Well, it is because you think about it. I mean, as a kid, did you ever think about going into space?
- [14:53]
Tyrus
Tyrus, I think I'll be honest with you. I wanted to be an astronaut and I had a really rude science teacher who was like, you're 14 and 6 7, 275, son. There's not a ship big enough for you.
- [15:05]
Butch Wilmore
You know, sadly, that's true.
- [15:07]
Tyrus
Yeah, he was, he was brutally honest and I appreciate it. But at that time you dream about
- [15:13]
Butch Wilmore
these things and then you're there and you're experiencing it and the weightlessness and you're literally superman. You're flying, right?
- [15:20]
Tyrus
Yeah. You flew. Yeah, I just looking over like, I know our B team guys are excited to talk to you today, but I'm not sharing you yet. You, what was combat like? Like, because I know before we get into the book, but like as a combat pilot, I mean there's split sec, I mean not even a split second decisions, you know, how do you.
- [15:51]
Butch Wilmore
So let me give you the cycle. So you got to realize this is my primary comment was Desert Storm and afterwards. So Desert Storm was really the first conflict we'd had in over, in 20 years since Vietnam. There have been little skirmishes here and there, but it was the first full up, full out, you know, coalition forces, big going forward. So we didn't know what to expect. In many respects, none of none of the people that were in the, in the squadrons that were in, our commanding officers, none of them had ever been in combat because been so long prior. So we didn't know what to expect. So your emotions are, you know, you're planning for the strike, you're planning to go into bad guy country. And your emotions are all, you know, a little bit of dread because you don't know what to expect. What if you get shot down? What will they do? You can imagine all the things that could be done to someone that was shot down and captured. And our imaginations are no different than just the dreading, the possibility of those things. Launch off the aircraft carrier. Rendezvous overhead with your wingman, Go overhead, Saudi Arabia, rendezvous with Air Force tankers. And you gotta realize there's eight tankers, they're stacked up in thousand foot increments, eight of them. And it's, especially at night, just this big wall of tankers. And you have to rendezvous on your altitude, exactly on your altitude. And you go in and you plug and you get gas. And throughout all of this, the emotions are continuing to go. And then when everyone's got their fuel, all 42 as an example, aircraft will be on the right side of the tankers. And then you start heading northbound into bad guy country. And about for me, about 20 miles south of the border, all those nerves, all that tension would go away. And the focus was on the task that was at hand, because that's what's required. You know, fear in many respects can be very, very good for you. You don't stick your hand in a fire, you fear getting burned. Fear in situations where you have to perform can be very detrimental. And many have learned that, myself included, the hard way. And, but so going into combat, the fear you've got to be able to perform regardless of what takes place. Like you said, split second decisions. I mean, we had MiGs launching, chasing us down, we had AAA, an aircraft artillery, Everett Stingers.
- [17:57]
Tyrus
I was in high school, where you've
- [17:59]
Butch Wilmore
gotta, where you've gotta dodge the missiles and rely on the training and the techniques to try to defeat an incoming missile that's coming at you at Mach 5 plus. So all of that comes into it and it, and it is, it is just wear on your nerves. But like I said, at that moment it's focused, completely focused on the task at hand.
- [18:19]
Tyrus
Was there one particular mission that you were like, man, if I would have just banked one way, I wouldn't be here having this conversation. Was there ever, was there one that just kind of sits in your mind.
- [18:30]
Butch Wilmore
There is. And you mentioned the book Stuck in Space. And I tell about one of those where I had three missiles shot at me within about a five minute period. And the first one I dodged successfully. I'm pretty sure it was maneuvering.
- [18:42]
Tyrus
I'm going to take you at your word. We're here. Yeah. I'm going to say yes, that's a fact. You did do that.
- [18:49]
Butch Wilmore
I did, I did, yeah.
- [18:50]
Tyrus
The Internet might say conspiracy, but I'm sitting right here. It's a hot take, ladies and gentlemen. He dodged all three. I'm going on a limb here.
- [18:57]
Butch Wilmore
Yeah, yeah. So anyway, the second one gets shot right after that and it, you know, defeat that one and there's a third one. But because of how things happen, I wound up in another kind of a kill area, if you will, a threat ring for a missile. And they got shot as well. So yeah, I mean it's certainly, I'll tell you, it gets your heart pumping when it's survive. Yeah, it's survivor or not. Right. I mean that's kind of where it's. And it's not just you. You're also concerned about your wingman, the guys that you're responsible for and they're responsible for you and looking out for each other, mutual support and all of that. So anyway, that's all those things go through your mind and like you said, it is right now, decisions in the moment live or die literally in certain situations.
- [19:37]
Tyrus
And all that comes from years and years of dedication, accountability and preparation you can't use.
- [19:44]
Butch Wilmore
You said it, you said all in. You got to be all in. And that's one of the premises in the book as well. You got to be all in. You got to want it and life is tough. You got to go through some difficulties in your training and in the process and in the preparation. Some low points where you didn't get it right. And simulated, thankfully, you're simulated. You don't, you don't survive, but you learn from it. You press forward and again hone those tactics, make sure you understand them. You know the brief, everything that is your, your responsibility during a mission. You have to know it front backwards and inside and out because your wingman depends on you. And now for me, I didn't have anyone else in the aircraft with me because I was a single seat. We didn't, it was just me that was our entire squadron were single seat squadrons. But you do have mutual support, like I said, for your wingman and the others that are there and you've Got to. You got to be there for them. And we. We did. We saved each other's life many times. A missile left six, brake left or left of the four, break left. And you just do it. You don't go, wait and say, oh, let me see, what is he talking about?
- [20:42]
Tyrus
No, your left or my left.
- [20:44]
Butch Wilmore
Right now? Yeah, you maneuver right now. So those type of things, you know, happen and happen fairly often in those situations.
- [20:50]
Tyrus
So what was the inspiration for Stuck in Space was.
- [20:55]
Butch Wilmore
You know, honestly, that's a great question. I had started writing some. Some stories for my daughters. My wife and I were in our 40s before our daughters were born, and I wanted to leave them some information about us. Not just me, but us. And so I've written a few stories, but when all this stuff happened with. With Starliner and it and I got contacted Tyrus by a lot of several publishers through my brother, through my church, through a lot of different avenues while I was still there. And I continued to write and sort of wrapped it around the Starliner saga to tell a story of. I think it's a story of hope. That's the reason I published it. It's a story of hope in the now. And it's centered on faith, on Jesus Christ my Lord, as my Lord and Savior. And it's eternal hope through him. It comes only through him because we're all sinners and we need to be sinners, saved by grace, meaning that he incurred the wrath of God the Father for our sin. And that's really the premise of why I published it. I didn't publish it to tell a story. I didn't publish it. And though it tells a story, I didn't publish it. For an exciting story, though I think it's an exciting story. If you get.
- [21:53]
Tyrus
Go through all the details, you're sharing your message.
- [21:55]
Butch Wilmore
I'm sharing the message. And this message is wrapped in a lot of, I think, of telling, trying and encouraging situations, I think for people when they read it.
- [22:05]
Tyrus
And it's also a record, you know, long after we're all gone, someone's going to pick that up and be inspired.
- [22:13]
Butch Wilmore
It is. I hope so. I hope so. Again, inspired for the right reason, for the right purpose, and that's why it's published. Yeah. Thank you for asking. Yeah.
- [22:20]
Tyrus
And of course, they can get it on Amazon and everywhere books are sold
- [22:23]
Butch Wilmore
and it will have much wilmore.com, you bet.
- [22:25]
Tyrus
Yeah, we'll get. Hey, we'll get all that up there. It's the least, the very least we could do. Now, one of the things that you, that you are currently doing that I possibly hope one day myself to do. Is retirement. How is it really such a thing? Or is it just a hope in my head that, like, is. Is retirement all that it is cracked up to be?
- [22:49]
Butch Wilmore
Is it beautiful, Tyrus, if it's anything like this, no, it's not like what you imagine. I say, I left NASA. I left NASA. I have not retired.
- [23:00]
Tyrus
No, you did not. See, you do not sound like a guy who was like, I retired. You sound like a guy going, I got one more left. Hey, just. Hey, I'm in the bullpen, fellas. Rotator cuff is fine, man. I got, I still got a fastball's gone, but I got a curve.
- [23:15]
Butch Wilmore
Exactly, exactly right. So we'll keep pressing forward and see where the good Lord might lead. Right now it is a busy life. It is really busy, but it's, it's rewarding. It really is. It was time to leave NASA. 25 years. Very few astronauts stay that long. I, I didn't plan to, but sort of things happened along the way that kind of extended what, what the original plan was. And I'm grateful for everything that had a. Grateful for. 460. 486 days in space. 484 days. And that's 464 days, excuse me, in space. Because every single one of them is special. Every one of them. Not all planned like we said. Not all perfect like we said, but special regards it is. That's exactly life. Exactly. Regardless of what you're doing, no. So, you know, the Lord's working out his sovereign will providentially. And this life and, and mine's no different than yours or anyone else's. He's doing the same there.
- [24:05]
Tyrus
Now we use the word special. So this is where I can sneak the family in. You do have more time though, right? You get more time with your family. You have a lot of time to, you know, there is a cost for that journey, for that life to be. You know, you're gone a lot. You know, there's a lot of times where you're in places where they can only imagine now that you get to do. You get to be home more, you get more time to spend time with the family. Was there a sense of I don't know what to do with myself at 2 o' clock in the afternoon, you know, or they were like, hey, hey, we got to retrain you on some things here, sir. Well, was it an easy adjustment?
- [24:43]
Butch Wilmore
Yeah. Life is, life is fast and furious. It Is and was and has been. And there's so many times I would be somewhere on official travel and I'd be by myself and I'd go, you know, I'm not going to sit in my hotel room, I'm going to go and see things. And I wound up doing a lot of things alone. It is great to share a lot of those experiences with my wife now and with my family. She's able to travel with me now some and be there for my daughters and times and, you know, we're just there this weekend. My daughter had her last play at her university. She's in theater and she did a wonderful job. She'll be able to share all of that, which I obviously, that year I was gone, I missed all of that.
- [25:19]
Tyrus
Yeah.
- [25:20]
Butch Wilmore
So that is amazingly special. I'm so grateful for it. To do those dad things that dads want to do. You want to spend time with their wife and they want to spend time with their, their kids and support them in what they're doing. And that's my role now. I'm still busy doing some things, but I'm going to support my daughters all the way as long as the Lord will allow.
- [25:38]
Tyrus
Because they are the inspiration. They are the reason why you get up. They're the reason because they are living. And I, you're. You're preaching in the choir, being in empty hotel rooms, you know, every night, you know, and their life's going on and there's only, I mean, think. I mean, we're so lucky. I'm lucky that I have FaceTime and, and to where I can see my kids and my, and my wife every night and talk to them, even though they're like, we're busy, you know, and you're just kind of looking through the phone like, hey, hey, guys. What are we doing exactly? You know, and your kids, we started late too. And you know, my 11 year old, the baby, she's going on 30. I mean, she just like, dad, I got horses, I got practice, I got language. I don't. What did you need? And I'm just like, you know, and you're just sitting on the other like, what? You know, I'm good, I'm good, I'm good. You know?
- [26:28]
Butch Wilmore
Yeah, yeah, yeah. They are the legacy that we live. Honestly, the only legacy I live behind will be our daughters. And I'm so proud of them. I'm proud of them how they handled all this. Other things that went on with the delays and all the things that, you know, stuck in space and all that. They Did a wonderful job with it all. We had taught them, you know, about life, and we taught them about, you know, that term resiliency. And they lived it and they came through it all wonderfully well. Like I said, I'm so proud of them through it all, and I'm even more proud of them now as we go forward and like we said, to be able to share their lives with them as much as they will allow us to. Right.
- [27:03]
Tyrus
Yeah. Yeah. Because, like, I'm lucky. I think, with 50% of my kids. I have six, I think 50%. I'm still cool, you know,
- [27:13]
Butch Wilmore
the thing is, I'm told, though, when you. When you go uncool, you wind up being cool again later.
- [27:17]
Tyrus
Yes, that's the plan. We keep telling ourselves that. That's fine.
- [27:22]
Butch Wilmore
Right, Right.
- [27:23]
Tyrus
Is there. Have you, like, retirement, always, like, oh, you can do hobbies, you can do this and that. Is there anything that you've. You've added to your life that you like? For me, I. I like to. I'm a lot of people know about. I like. I raise fish. Like, I breed cichlids and I like to collect fish and reptiles and stuff like that. I'm like, oh, I'm do more of that stuff where, like, maybe I'll garden or, you know, pick up golf or something like that. Have you been able to add anything to the supposed retirement realm?
- [27:50]
Butch Wilmore
I haven't yet. My regime right now when I'm home is fixing the things that have had a little bit of. Not been looked at for a while. Like, I'm redoing part of my pergola that I built 13, 14 years ago. So you're finishing up tasks, those type of thing. Yes, exactly.
- [28:06]
Tyrus
Because as a rocket.
- [28:07]
Butch Wilmore
But we're going to get there.
- [28:08]
Tyrus
Yeah. As a rocket surgeon, you should be able to fix the pipes and get the AC working. You.
- [28:15]
Butch Wilmore
Yes, indeed.
- [28:16]
Tyrus
Because that, that's, you know, wives are really good with sarcasm. So you can fix a rocket, but you can't fix the front.
- [28:23]
Butch Wilmore
There you go. There you go. And, you know, I enjoyed that, though. That's enjoyment.
- [28:28]
Tyrus
I can see it. And you just one of the nicest things about this. It's not interviews, a conversation is just. You were just beaming of positivity and just happiness. And you are really in a good place. And I think. And people need to see that and just feel that, you know, because those of us are. I'm on the grind. It's a long work day, and I still got one more day before I get to go home and see My family. But leaving this man, I'm in a good mood. Like, I'm, you know, and it's. That's a message that I think positivity and just sharing yourself is a powerful medicine.
- [29:07]
Butch Wilmore
You know, people have asked about space flight, being up there, and what did you miss? What did you wish you had? What did you fret over? And I can tell you, Tyrus, it's a great lesson. Such a unique place. If I. I'm not gonna. I'm not gonna burden myself with fretting over anything, regardless of what it is. I can't see my family. I'm not gonna fret over it. That's not gonna be a benefit to me. And if they see me fretting about it, that's not a benefit to them. I'm the. I'm a leader of my family as a. As a father, and I got responsibility there, so I'm not going to do that.
- [29:39]
Tyrus
That's a great lesson.
- [29:40]
Butch Wilmore
That's a lesson for all of us.
- [29:41]
Tyrus
Yeah. Because life comes.
- [29:43]
Butch Wilmore
Life is tough. It's going to happen. Roll with it. Enjoy it. What are you trying to show me? Or what can I learn from this? And that's really what our focus. My focus is and fretting. You know, I'm not to say you never get down. Sometimes you do. But overall, no, no, Press forward. And Fredding's not a part of it. And look, try to look at the positive outcomes. And trust me, as you know, looking back, there's positivity in almost everything that we experience.
- [30:07]
Tyrus
Right.
- [30:07]
Butch Wilmore
Because you can learn from. That's a great thing.
- [30:09]
Tyrus
Scars and failure are the recipes for success and happiness. And they, you know, and that's a great. And you. I need. You made me remind myself, you know, when you do, you only speak to them a couple hours a night sometimes because of work and travel. And when you get on there and they see you're miserable, you know.
- [30:27]
Butch Wilmore
Exactly.
- [30:28]
Tyrus
And, oh, man, I'm on the. I'm tired of being in the hotel room. And then your whole conversation isn't about what it should be about. How are you? How is your day? I'm so excited to see you, you know, and. And you can mull in your muck afterwards.
- [30:43]
Butch Wilmore
But indeed, you.
- [30:45]
Tyrus
You. And it was great words to live by. I am the leader of my family, and I need to lead by example. And that means when you have the tough times, that's when it's most important to stick the chest out. That's when it's most important to. To have the smile and be like, yeah, this is hard, but we got this, you know, we're okay.
- [31:02]
Ryan
Exactly.
- [31:02]
Tyrus
I miss you too.
- [31:03]
Butch Wilmore
Just like, yeah, just like I was saying about spaceflight, you know, making this the best professional evolution of your life was my goal. For those that I'm on board with. And it's the same thing with our families, those we interact with, whatever the situations are, this needs to be a positive event. Even when it's difficult and even when the times are trying and you know, there are tears and you continue to press forward love, hug and embrace, go through those things together and come out the backside. All the better for it. Yeah, it's, it's, it's a wonderful thing, wonderful thing to share your life. And that's the way the good Lord designed us, right? He made us inter relational beings and that's what we're, what we're called to do for his glory.
- [31:42]
Tyrus
Well, I, you know what, thank you so much for coming on. I hope you want to come back because I, I would love to get at some point, you know, with, to talk about some of the things that was going on in the space world that, not necessarily that, that I didn't want to take away anything from the amazing things in your career, but I'd love to have you come back on and I could read you some of the strange things that are going on and you know what I'm saying, You
- [32:10]
Butch Wilmore
know, I do, I do.
- [32:12]
Tyrus
But like, this is, it's more. I don't want anything to take away from the message of, of what Stuck in Space represents, what you represent on this one. But I think you and I could have a lot of fun. Not, we're not making fun, we're just asking questions and just having some fun with it in a very positive way, you know, because I've had one of the things, one of my. And it's a boastful idea, but I wanted to talk about and push the imagination again. And I think space has a lot to do with that, but they're also in context. This is a very real life experience that you are sharing. And it's the closest that someone like myself will ever be is seeing you come back with just a love for where you are. Like, space was great, but where we are is a wonderful place. And I think that's the message. But I do have some other questions about some other stuff. But if you'll come back, we'll just like, hey, what do you think about, you know, because, yeah, that asteroid that has thrusters one week and it doesn't the next. There's certain, you know, and orbs and all that fun stuff. And. But again, there's a time and place for that. But for today, for. For my viewers, I want them to come away from this going, you know what, man? I need to be. I need to be more like that,
- [33:32]
Butch Wilmore
you know, because let me give your viewers one. One phrase. My brother says this, and I love it. You know, bloom where you're planted, wherever that is, whatever it is. Bloom where you're planted, and. And look at life in that fashion. And he does. He's an amazing guy, and he encourages me, and he does it every single day, and I see it, and it's such an encouragement. Bloom where you plan it.
- [33:52]
Tyrus
Bloom where you plan it. And I would put on the end of that. Enough said. And. And B team is, like, now, if I could just for a few minutes, my. I have B.T. harry and Ryan. I'm not sure we got which one's coming in to do it, but they might be a little more. They're young guys, and I'm trying to, you know, I got some gen zers, you know what I'm saying? Or millennials, whatever. They just got facial hair, you know, still wet behind the ears. And I'm trying to bring them in to where at some point I can retire. So they like to ask a couple, and they're excited, and it's nice to see young people excited about space again. So fantastic. I promise. Hey, listen, and if they get weird, you have my permission to click at any time.
- [34:38]
Butch Wilmore
It'll be good. It'll be good.
- [34:40]
Tyrus
Awesome. Thank you so much, man. And again, where can we get that book stuck in space?
- [34:44]
Butch Wilmore
Butchwillmore.com you got it.
- [34:46]
Tyrus
And we'll get it up there. Thank you, sir. It's been an honor and a privilege, and please come back.
- [34:51]
Butch Wilmore
Yeah, the privilege is mine. Thank you, Tyrus.
- [34:53]
Tyrus
Thank you, sir. Thank you for doing. Thank you for your service.
- [34:57]
Harry
Hello again. Butch.
- [34:59]
Butch Wilmore
Yes, sir. Hello.
- [35:00]
Harry
It's an honor to be here with you.
- [35:02]
Butch Wilmore
Amen.
- [35:03]
Harry
Thank you for your service.
- [35:05]
Butch Wilmore
Thank you, sir.
- [35:06]
Harry
I just had a few quick questions for you. I grew this beard last night. I'm pretty excited about.
- [35:13]
Butch Wilmore
Came in thick and full. Better than mine. Better than I can do.
- [35:16]
Harry
Tyrus said I'm wet behind the ears. I have no idea what that means, but that's a good. That's a fun expression. All right, so I've heard that anyone who has been in space and has seen Earth has talked about the perspective that they've gained from looking at Earth. What is the perspective you gain from looking the other direction? Like seeing into vast open space? Like, what is. What do you walk away thinking in or believing in?
- [35:47]
Butch Wilmore
Well, I can tell you the Hubble as an example. The Hubble Space Telescope pointed its lens at a, from. From the Earth. Looks like a black spot in space. And as it orbited the planet, it would point the telescope there. And over the course of years, like 13 years, it got like, you know, 14 minutes of time where it opened up its lens and took in the light. And it's called the Hubble Deep Field Picture or whatever. Hubble Deep Field Video or picture, whatever it's called. Anyway, in that picture, they surmise there's 10,000 galaxies, which has trillions of stars. And if you, and if you were to do the math and if you were to say you counted to a trillion, one number per second, 1, 2, 3, and you counted a trillion, it would take you 31,709 years. And in that one picture, by about the size of viewing the moon from the Earth, that little bitty piece of the sky, there are trillions of stars. And it just speaks to the vastness and the magnitude of, of our Lord, our God, our creator, that did all this to support this planet, as you know, it says in Genesis, and the stars he created also, you know, and that was pretty much almost like an afterthought. And it's just mesmerizing. So that's, I think that's what I take away as I look into deep space. It's just, wow. Wow. Just the magnitude, the vastness. I just looked up Gaia. I think it's Gaia. B H1 is the closest black hole to our. To us. And it's 15,000 light years away, which is. I think it was 5.8 quadrillion miles, which is enormous. And that's the closest black hole to us. I mean, it's just. It's just mesmerizing, the size and vastness of the universe.
- [37:36]
Harry
So you see it as. There's almost this designer.
- [37:39]
Butch Wilmore
Oh, it is, yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. I'm not an evolutionist. I'm straight up about that. God is creator. He created all things. As a matter of fact, the more we learn, the more we understand about science, the more it's revealed to us, the more it debunks everything about evolution, that evolution is absolutely impossible. Now, people will naysay that, but let's go to the data, look at what the data shows, and it shows exactly that. When you start looking at the DNA and how DNA cannot cross from one kind to another. There's as far as replicating and times and eons and just thinking about the reproductive process of humans and how that had to, if it did evolve, the male and the female would have had to evolve separately and then come together. And that's impossible because how do they create. It's just. It's just everything's created. And that's just a couple of quick comments about the evidence that is so overwhelmingly against evolution. So just to share that, and again, I would love to debate anyone and your listeners that this, that, you know, believe differently. And they. It's, you know, what, what. Ultimately, what we believe doesn't matter what, what. What matters is what's true. And we try to align our beliefs up with what's true in evidential science and everything else. So anyway, that's a lot of quick comments about a huge topic I know that's super interesting.
- [38:50]
Harry
We got to have a Darwinist on with you. You can duke it out.
- [38:55]
Butch Wilmore
Duke it out.
- [38:56]
Harry
So I've heard. I've also heard people say you can't shower in space. Is that true?
- [39:03]
Butch Wilmore
Yeah, there's no way to make the water flow. And so we just wet a towel, put some soap in it, scrub a dub dub, wet another towel without soap, wipe off the soap and then dry off. That's the only way you can do it? Yeah. Showering is not possible.
- [39:15]
Harry
What's another, like, fun? Like what's, what's something else you can't do? Like something funny that, like, you just can't do in space?
- [39:21]
Butch Wilmore
Well, let me tell you something you can do. Think about this. You drink coffee. I'm sure I don't, but a lot of people do. So think about today's coffee is tomorrow's coffee.
- [39:34]
Harry
Today's coffee is tomorrow's coffee.
- [39:36]
Butch Wilmore
You drink coffee out of a bag in space. Your body processes it and it expels it. Think of a vacuum. It's sucked into a system. The system separates the good part of the urine from the bad part of the urine. The bad part of the urine we store in these containers, these metal containers. But the good part of the urine, we zap it with high energy. We pull the sweat out, our sweat, because we work out, out of the atmosphere. We take it through, zap it with high energy, put some filters through, some filters, goes back through, and we drink it again. Tomorrow, everything is recycled. I mean, it's pretty amazing. And the water. And water has taste. It's the best tasting water I've ever tasted. It is truly Amazing, really. So I'm glad I'm not. I wasn't part of the process of tasting it while they were developing it, but now that it's. It's developed in its full system, it's really good. But anyway, that's some things. We recycle our air. You inhale air, you exhale carbon dioxide. We take the carbon dioxide, we break down the molecules, the carbon and the O2. We separate the carbon from the O2. The O2 goes back into the process and we rebreath it.
- [40:41]
Harry
Wow.
- [40:42]
Butch Wilmore
So that's the kind of systems we have on space station. It's kind of systems you have to have if you're going to go to deep space or even go and live in places like the mo. In other places.
- [40:50]
Harry
That is wild.
- [40:52]
Butch Wilmore
Yeah.
- [40:52]
Harry
So this is my last. My last question, and then we're gonna get Ryan in here and he's gonna ask you a few questions if you have time.
- [40:57]
Butch Wilmore
Okay?
- [40:58]
Harry
Is that all right?
- [40:58]
Butch Wilmore
You bet.
- [40:59]
Harry
So when I was a kid, as every kid at one point thought I wanted to be either an astronaut or a cowboy or a Viking or a samurai. I didn't really. I didn't fully understand what either of those were, but I knew that I was. I had those books. What were those books, Jack? The Expedia with all of the fun. Or if there's like a weapons book. Yes. The encyclopedia of everything. How does it feel to actually be a person who ultimately did what every kid's dream was?
- [41:34]
Butch Wilmore
I've never been asked that question in that manner. Let me contemplate that. I can tell you this. When I first. When I first got to space, the first moments, as soon as I felt the weightlessness, the engine stopped and cut off. I was in the space shuttle. We separated from external tank, and I'm floating and I could look out the window and see the Earth from above. It was very humbling because I knew there were millions of people on the planet that I'm seeing below me now that would love to be sitting in that seat. And the first time I did a spacewalk, stuck my head out the hatch into the vastness of the cosmos. I mean, literally traveling that, you know, 70,000 five miles a second around the planet, it was humbling. Again, the same thing. It's just like, goodness, good Lord. Why me, of all people here? You've allowed me to have this desire. So many people would love to have it because it is so unique. So I think that's the word that comes to mind. It's very, very humbling. It Also comes with a great, great deal of responsibility because it's such high visibility, high visible, highly visible position, not always looked at. But if something goes wrong, like on a spacewalk, if I come off a structure and, you know, I become a satellite, you're going to get famous. There's not a single hour that went by at some point I didn't go, don't get famous, don't get famous. Because, you know, you got to stay on structure and you got. We've got tethers and all that, a protocol that, that we use to traverse from one place to the next. And if you ever are lax in your focus and your attention, attention to detail, you could come off structure and you wind up a satellite. That is not good. That is not good.
- [43:16]
Harry
Thank you, Butch, thank you again for your service. It's been a pleasure talking to you and we'll have you back on for certain. I'm going to bring my friend Ryan in here.
- [43:25]
Butch Wilmore
Hey, Ryan. I can. No facial hair for you, though.
- [43:28]
Ryan
No facial hair. I can't grow any. I can't grow any big face. Love what you've done. Thank you very much for your service. I can't imagine what it's like going up in space, but I really wanted to talk to you today for a few minutes. I just recently saw the movie Interstellar, and I've been obsessed with it ever since. So as soon as I saw it and I heard you were coming on, I'm like, oh, I gotta ask him some questions. So the first one is, you know, after watching that movie, I could see how deep and overwhelming space can be. But we tend to see it portrayed as one way in movies, whether it's, you know, in a cartoon or a TV series. What would you say is a big difference between how the movies portray it and how it actually was for you up there?
- [44:16]
Butch Wilmore
That is a great question. Let me put it like this. Our imaginations are wonderful. And our imaginations can take us places that, that we would never go otherwise. Right? And our imaginations wind up in books, which wind up in movies. And it's fabulous to let our imaginations run and. And it's enjoyment, right? It's. It's entertainment. We can sit down together and experience these things. And it's. And it's. And it's wonderful. It truly is. Actual space flight, though, is physics.
- [44:50]
Ryan
Yeah.
- [44:50]
Butch Wilmore
Our imaginations are great, but if. If you can't back it up with physics, meaning technology, the capabilities, you know, two plus two is four. It's only four. Can never be anything but four, and if. And if the physics doesn't allow you to do what your imagination wants to do, you can't do it.
- [45:07]
Ryan
Yeah.
- [45:08]
Butch Wilmore
And that's the limiting factor.
- [45:10]
Tyrus
Yeah.
- [45:10]
Butch Wilmore
In space flight.
- [45:11]
Ryan
And you can't see that in the movies. You can't experience that in a movie. So I think that's very interesting and it's cool to see that perspective on things. And, you know, you were, when you did the, the Starline test, you were only supposed to be up there for a week or two. And then it led to so much more time. What was the hardest part of that? Mentally being up there, knowing that you're stuck in space. How did you adjust to that?
- [45:40]
Butch Wilmore
You asked a question that have not been asked.
- [45:43]
Ryan
That's why they bring me in last.
- [45:45]
Butch Wilmore
There you go. Ryan, you're the man. You got to realize flying in space is a privilege. Being there, even extended there, even extended months, which was, you know, just shy of a year, 10 months. It's. It's even. That's a privilege. The thing that bothered me, the only thing that bothered me was some of the things that I found out about the Starliner and its preparation and for launch. That's the only thing that bothered me. Some of the things that I came to know after we were there, some of the things that really ultimately caused the problem. That was frustrating. That's the only thing that bothered me.
- [46:27]
Ryan
I can imagine because we're all watching it from Earth and you guys are just stuck up there. And it's just another day goes by, another day goes by, another week goes by. You guys are still stuck up there. So I can only imagine what it must have been like up there. I guess another good question is we're very focused on getting to Mars one day, but I feel like it's so easy for people to just say, yeah, we're going to get to Mars. Do you think people underestimate what it truly would bring to get to Mars? And do you think that we actually will one day?
- [46:59]
Butch Wilmore
That is another wonderful question. Good job, Ryan. Mars is so hard. Yeah, it is hard for a multiple reasons.
- [47:09]
Ryan
Unless you're Matt Damon.
- [47:11]
Butch Wilmore
Yeah, unless you're Matt Damon. The distance makes it very difficult. The reliability of our. The parts that are on the various spacecraft make it very difficult. You can't take every spare part with you. Additive manufacturing, 3D printing, that type of technology has to be robust because you're probably going to have to print. Print a part or print a tool and print a tool to install the part. You've got to Be able to do those things. Food. How are you going to feed people? It's going to be a through your journey. You can't rely on a crop because what if you have a bad crop? Getting to the surface. We can't get to the surface. It is difficult to get to the surface because the Mars. Earth is this size. Mars is this size. It's about 4/10 the size of the Earth. So it. It's got 4/10 the gravity gravitational pull. Because the gravitational pull full of a heavenly bodies based on its mass. So it has about 1/100 the density of the atmosphere. It's got enough gravity to hold a atmosphere, but it's only 1/100th of the density of ours. And we use our atmosphere to slow down so we can land. Yeah, that. That atmosphere is not very dense. So it's very difficult to take the amount of mass we have to take the surface to support human life to slow it down 100% without taking a Norse enormous amount of propellant. So your question. Those are a couple of things. There's many more that make it very hard. Do I think we're going to go there? It's going to be very challenging to go to the surface of Mars and return a crew to Earth. For anyone that's alive today.
- [48:35]
Ryan
Yeah. Which.
- [48:36]
Butch Wilmore
Which I think it's really tough.
- [48:38]
Ryan
Which, you know, I expect, I guess I have one last question for you
- [48:43]
Butch Wilmore
and the reason real quick is.
- [48:46]
Ryan
Yeah, I mean it's amazing when you look at a movie like Interstellar, it's amazing watching how much physics are in there. And that's just what the movies show you. I can only imagine what it was like for you. So last question for anyone that is young right now that is watching this podcast and has thoughts on becoming an astronaut, what actually separates the people who make it, like yourself, to the ones who don't? What does it take if you're young? I want to be an astronaut and you're serious about it. What do people have to have to get it done compared to those that don't?
- [49:26]
Butch Wilmore
Let me tell you what it is and then explain it real quick. An attitude of excellence. It's a great answer. And what that means is when I first got the astronaut corps, one of the first briefs they told us, they said know everything and perform it well, which is impossible. But that has to be your goal. You have to have an attitude of doing every single thing with excellence. You can't achieve it. It's impossible. But that has to be your focus. You cannot allow yourself to get into a position of accepting anything other than absolute perfection. Now, not to say you got to be a perfectionist, There's a fine line. But you have to strive to do everything to the absolute best of your ability. That's. That's really what sets the people apart.
- [50:11]
Ryan
That's great. That's.
- [50:12]
Butch Wilmore
And being able to intermingle and enjoy one another, not be, you know, that you don't want to get stuck in a cam with somebody that you don't like.
- [50:21]
Ryan
Absolutely. And you know what, Butch? You're an inspiration to so many people. You did a great, great thing for our country and for our planet. And I just wanted to thank you on behalf of Tyrus and Harry for coming here. And, you know, we look forward to what you do next. And hopefully, hopefully next time when you come back, we'll have a new exploration of space that we could talk about.
- [50:41]
Butch Wilmore
That'd be great.
- [50:42]
Ryan
All right, take care.
- [50:43]
Butch Wilmore
Be there with you.
- [50:44]
Ryan
Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. It would be a pleasure to meet you. Take care, Butch.
- [50:48]
Butch Wilmore
Thank you, Brian. Thank you, Brian.