Dr. Gad Saad & The Empathy Trap: How Nice Ideas Kill Nations | Planet Tyrus

Summary

Planet Tyrus — “Dr. Gad Saad & The Empathy Trap: How Nice Ideas Kill Nations” (May 12, 2026)

---

Episode Overview

This episode of Planet Tyrus features Dr. Gad Saad, evolutionary psychologist, author, and professor, discussing his new book Suicidal Empathy with host Tyrus. They dive deep into the concept of empathy—its evolutionary roots, how it’s misapplied in modern Western societies, and the dangers of “suicidal empathy” that can undermine societal stability. Their conversation traverses psychology, history, cultural differences, current political climates, and memorable anecdotes, infused with humor and Dr. Saad’s signature analogies.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Empathy as Double-Edged Sword

• Empathy’s Importance & Dangers:
  Dr. Saad establishes early on that empathy is an evolutionarily beneficial trait, necessary for social species and meaningful human interaction. However, when empathy is over-applied or misdirected, particularly towards those who may exploit it, it can contribute to societal decay.
  • “If you have too much empathy, if it is hyper firing in the wrong situations to the wrong targets, you end up with the complete collapse of Western civilization.” — Gad Saad (00:00)
  • “Empathy is something we should all have, but at the same time, we all should be aware that empathy can be a weapon.” — Tyrus (00:11)

2. Writing Without Ideological Finger-Wagging

• Tyrus praises Dr. Saad's neutral, “draw-your-own-conclusions” approach:
  Dr. Saad explains how he blends professorial analysis, comedic touches, and personal stories, avoiding dogmatic or overly academic tones. (01:21–02:11)

3. Exploring The ‘Govern Me Harder, Daddy’ Chapter

• Comparison of Ideologies:
  Tyrus is struck by Saad’s comparison of Roosevelt’s New Deal and Stalin’s Soviet propaganda, using empathy-driven appeals to justify powerful state interventions at both ends of the political spectrum.
  • “Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive... Those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own consciousness.” — Tyrus paraphrasing chapter content (03:38)

4. Role of Reciprocity vs. Suicidal Empathy

• Foreign Aid & Expecting Nothing in Return:
  Dr. Saad discusses the evolutionary and social necessity of reciprocity, with examples from the Prisoner’s Dilemma and birthday rituals, and critiques how Western states give “trillions of dollars” in aid with zero string attached, fearing accusations of meanness.
  • “Reciprocity is important, but yet look what we do with foreign aid. We give trillions of dollars, but God forbid you should ever expect anything in return. That would make you a mean country.” — Gad Saad (10:17)

5. The Calculus of Empathy (The Trolley Problem)

• The limits of universal empathy:
  Saad explains evolutionary rationale: humans are wired to care most for close kin or their in-group. Pushing empathy beyond this (e.g., for distant strangers over neighbors or even criminal perpetrators over victims) leads to misplaced priorities and “suicidal empathy.”
  • “Suicidal empathy erases all that. It says Guatemalan illegal immigrants are more worthy of your empathy than American vets who lost their limbs fighting for our freedoms.” — Gad Saad (13:30)

6. Real-World Example: Empathy for a Rapist

• Norwegian Case Study:
  A striking anecdote of a Norwegian man feeling guilt over his rapist’s deportation, exemplifying the pathology of empathy unmoored from self-preservation or justice.
  • “If you were sodomized by someone forcefully, you probably shouldn’t have empathy for his future trajectory.” — Gad Saad (14:37)

7. The Reversal of Moral Priorities

• Criminals Over Victims:
  Tyrus and Saad discuss the trend of prioritizing empathy for criminals at the expense of victims, especially when social or political ideology is at play. They tie this to “blank slate” thinking—assuming all people are born identical and society corrupts them.
  • “Blank slate felons... If you believe we’re all born angelic, then a felon of color in a ‘white supremacist’ society is already punished, so why jail him again?” — Gad Saad (22:51)

8. Justifying Political Violence Through Empathy

• Deontological vs. Consequentialist Ethics:
  Saad dissects how some activists and “moral busybodies” justify violence in the name of empathy or existential threats, shifting from absolute (deontological) to conditional (consequentialist) ethics based on their cause.
  • “For certain foundational principles that, say, define the American ethos... those have to be deontological statements.” — Gad Saad (27:26)

9. The Progressive Martyr Complex

• Happiness Gap & The Savior Mindset:
  Research shows conservatives are, on average, happier than progressives. Saad links this to worldviews: conservatives seek to conserve what works; progressives want to tear down and build utopias, fueling a “savior” or martyr mentality, which fosters aggressive activism.
  • “The conservative wakes up and says, I want to work harder to conserve... The progressive wakes up and says, we need to dismantle this society and create a future utopia.” — Gad Saad (31:10)

10. Memorable Analogies: The ‘Wood Cricket’ and ‘Smelling the Cork’

• Wood Cricket Jews & Queers for Palestine:
  Saad uses the “wood cricket” (an insect brainwashed by a parasite into suicide) as a metaphor for left-wing activists who support causes that are objectively hostile to their own interests.
  • “That’s exactly what’s happening with Queers for Palestine. It doesn’t matter if you throw me off the top of the building... even in death, I can rejoice at having been orgasmically empathetic.” — Gad Saad (19:22)
• Getting ‘Drunk by the Cork’:
  Applied to political choices based on vibes and empathy signals (e.g., supporting a charismatic leader without regard to their policy substance).
  • “You are of such weak constituency that you don’t actually have to drink the wine to get all delirious and drunk. You just go [sniffs] and you’re drunk... That’s what you went through when you voted for the degenerate.” — Gad Saad (41:32)

11. Cultural Theory of Mind & Western Naïveté

• “The West is a Woman to be Mounted”:
  Saad relates an Arabic saying to describe how displays of Western tolerance and empathy are often seen as weakness, not virtue, by those from more patriarchal or honor-based societies.
  • “The reason for that is... in the West, our compassion, tolerance, empathy... are all laudable virtues. Folks from those regions see compassion, generosity, empathy, and sympathy and see weakness... So the West is to be mounted.” — Gad Saad (51:38)

12. Luxury Beliefs and Costless Empathy

• Virtue-Signaling Without Personal Cost:
  Those who champion radical empathy often live behind walls (physically or socially), shielded from the consequences of their beliefs, echoing Rob Henderson’s “luxury beliefs” and the evolutionary concept of “costly signaling.”
  • “When I sit behind the gated community where I live... I can say it is simply mean for other people to not have a chance at the American experience. But that’s because I’m surrounded by 17 guys with big guns... It’s a win, win. I could advertise to the world how kind I am...” — Gad Saad (54:09)

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “If you have too much empathy, if it is hyper firing in the wrong situations to the wrong targets, you end up with the complete collapse of Western civilization.” — Gad Saad (00:00)
• “Empathy is something we should all have, but at the same time, we all should be aware that empathy can be a weapon.” — Tyrus (00:11)
• “Parasitic taxation... comes from the great welfare state, the great nanny state... I’m doing it because we should all be in it together.” — Gad Saad (04:38)
• “Reciprocity is important, but yet look what we do with foreign aid... That would make you a mean country.” — Gad Saad (10:17)
• “Suicidal empathy erases all that. It says Guatemalan illegal immigrants are more worthy of your empathy than American vets who lost their limbs fighting for our freedoms.” — Gad Saad (13:30)
• “If you were sodomized by someone forcefully, you probably shouldn’t have empathy for his future trajectory.” — Gad Saad (14:37)
• “If you don’t know why you’re beating up your wife, don’t worry, she knows.” — Gad Saad, Arabic proverb (25:38)
• “That’s exactly what’s happening with Queers for Palestine. It doesn’t matter if you throw me off the top of the building... even in death, I can rejoice at having been orgasmically empathetic.” — Gad Saad (19:22)
• “You are of such weak constituency that you don’t actually have to drink the wine to get all delirious and drunk. You just go [sniffs] and you’re drunk.” — Gad Saad, on getting “drunk by the cork” (41:32)
• “The West is a woman to be mounted.” — Gad Saad, recounting Arabic saying (51:38)
• “When I sit behind the gated community... I could advertise to the world how kind I am.” — Gad Saad (54:09)

---

Timestamps of Key Segments

• 00:00 – 01:21: Introduction to empathy as evolutionarily selected trait & dangers of misplaced empathy
• 02:11 – 04:38: “Govern Me Harder, Daddy” — the parallel between compassionate tyranny and historical leaders
• 05:58 – 10:17: The necessity of reciprocity, charity “guilt” tactics, and Prisoner’s Dilemma
• 13:30 – 15:05: Trolley Problem and critique of “suicidal empathy” in modern scenarios
• 17:58 – 20:12: “Queers for Palestine” and “wood cricket” metaphor; moral preening
• 22:51 – 23:57: Blank slate felons and the dark side of social constructivism
• 27:26 – 28:32: Deontological vs. consequentialist ethics in justifying political violence
• 31:10 – 32:18: Conservative satisfaction vs. progressive utopian doom
• 41:32 – 43:12: “Drunk by the cork” analogy and political charisma
• 51:38 – 53:29: The West’s cultural naïveté and the “mounted woman” metaphor
• 54:09 – 55:22: Luxury beliefs, costly signaling, and virtue-signaling safety
• 57:29 – 58:17: Critiques of organized religion’s hypocrisy and misuse of empathy
• 58:17 – End: Closing remarks, mutual appreciation, and book recommendations

---

Tone and Style

The conversation is lively, at times irreverent and comedic, yet deeply thought-provoking. Both men use personal anecdotes, street-level analogies, and unfiltered language to break down intellectual concepts for a mainstream audience. Dr. Saad’s analogies and Tyrus’s humor keep the discussion engaging, provocative, and accessible.

---

For Listeners New to the Episode

This episode delivers a comprehensive, critical exploration of how empathy—usually celebrated as a virtue—can, when misapplied, lead to societal dysfunction and enabling of destructive forces. Using history, evolutionary theory, current events, and memorable metaphors, Dr. Saad argues for a moderated, reciprocated, and realistic approach to empathy—one that doesn’t sacrifice a nation’s self-interest or common sense in pursuit of feeling “nice.”

While sometimes controversial, the discussion offers valuable insights for navigating culture war debates, activism, and the perils of virtue signaling in the West.

---

Book Referenced: Suicidal Empathy by Dr. Gad Saad

Recommended For:
Fans of intellectual debate, evolutionary psychology, social commentary, Tyrus’s brand of comedy, and anyone skeptical of extreme forms of “woke” ideology or searching for common-sense frameworks in the culture war.

Transcript

[Gad Saad]

But if you have too much empathy, if it is hyper firing in the wrong situations to the wrong targets, you end up with the complete collapse of Western civilization.

[Tyrus]

Basically, empathy is something we should all have, but at the same time we all should be aware that empathy can be a weapon.

[Gad Saad]

So the conservative wakes up and says, I want to work harder to conserve the great beauty of my society. The progressive wakes up and says, we need to dismantle this society and create a future utopia.

[Tyrus]

Thanks for coming back on again. One of the greatest names ever. Gad Sad. And he's got his new book out and you always. I think the more I get familiar with the writing and I haven't finished it yet, but you present things in a very non opinionated fashion, which is extremely difficult. It's not. When I'm reading, I don't feel like I'm being told anything is being presented to me to draw my own conclusions. And how. And you pick such a tough subject that's so sensitive and so many landmines. How do you navigate through that? Right.

[Gad Saad]

I mean, a couple of ways to answer this. Number one, I use to your first question of how do I tackle it? I use a wide range of modalities of communication to get my message across. If I were to be only, you know, highfalutin professorial, then I lose a very important segment that may not be living in the ivory tower if I dumb it down too much so that the, you know, the highbrow layperson, you know, might not. So you have to strike the right balance. So this is why usually all of my books, at least my trade books meant for the general public, will be part professorial, part comedian, you know, part personal narratives. Because when you put that stew and if you thread the needle properly, hopefully it makes for a compelling read.

[Tyrus]

Well, because I got to this. Your chapter seven. I knew it governed me. Harder, Daddy.

[Gad Saad]

You like that?

[Tyrus]

Yeah. Well, the thing made me laugh. But then I don't think anyone has ever compared Theodore Roosevelt and Stalin together.

[Gad Saad]

Right?

[Tyrus]

And that just blew my mind.

[Gad Saad]

Do you want me to explain that for the audience?

[Tyrus]

Can I give them a little snippet? Just a little snippet? Yeah. Okay, this chapter seven, a little spoiler. I'm not gonna give you away too much because you really need to read the whole thing to under. To get the gist of it. Govern me harder. First of all, Daddy is not just a play on words or being silly. It holds some weight when you get into this chapter. But of all tyrannies or a tyranny Sincerely exercised for the good of its victims. Maybe the most oppressive. Now that may, like I was like, what do you. I don't really understand what you mean by that, but it may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep that really makes you think, you know, because he takes away, he has enough. He gets preoccupied. Maybe he takes. And then his cupidity may at some point be stated. But those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own consciousness. Empathy forms the foundation of welfare states and its liberal social welfare programs. So what basically is saying is at least you get a break with a guy who's just in it for himself. Opposed to the. And I hate because whenever you say woke, it, it's a trigger word. One people who lean very right get very aggressive and angry and then at the same time the left get defensive and angry. I'm not woke, I'm doing this. And then you go on to show Roosevelt's New Deal and Stalin's Soviet propaganda and they use the same formula for their results. Now, people. Well, how dare you. But it's a great, it's a great talking point.

[Gad Saad]

Yeah, thank you. Look, the dictator in the case of Stalin or the architect of the great Society in the case of the American President is not going to come to you and make a big ask without justifying it in some way that appeals to your emotional system. And so the empathy based appeal is one that has been used by both ends of the continuum. And hence that's why I thought to your point was a very powerful way to start that chapter. Parasitic taxation, which is something that then comes from the great welfare state, the great nanny state. Nobody says, hey, I would love to take 50, 60, 70% of your hard earned money and squander. It's a useless manner. I'm doing it because we should all be in it together. We should equalize income inequality. We should help those that are most more unfortunate than us. We should help the poor refugees and illegal migrants. So it's always triggering my empathy module. Of course, Suicidal empathy. Can I take a minute and just explain the framework?

[Tyrus]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely.

[Gad Saad]

So already even the book is only coming out in next week, but already there's been many hit pieces on me completely misconstruing what I'm saying.

[Tyrus]

Yeah, and that's what I was concerned with.

[Gad Saad]

Right. I'm not at all arguing that empathy is a bad thing as a Matter of fact, as an evolutionary psychologist, I fully recognize that empathy is an evolutionarily selected trait, meaning that for a social species, we have to have empathy. For you and I, Tyrus, to have a meaningful conversation, I need to put myself in your mind and vice versa. And that's, by the way, is called theory of mind. Autistic children, we usually diagnose them as being autistic early in life because we give them a theory of mind test, which they fail. So there is nothing wrong with well modulated empathy within certain prescribed regions. But like most things in life, as Aristotle explained to us several thousand years ago, too little of something is not good, too much of something is not good. And much of life is about finding that sweet spot, right? So in Aristotle's case, he talked about the golden mean. If you have a soldier who is cowardly, hence he doesn't have enough courage, it's bad. If he's so courageous that he becomes a reckless martyr, he dies very quickly. So you have to find the right level of courage according to Aristotle. So I took this principle and argued, look, if you don't have any empathy, you're potentially a psychopath. That's exactly what psychopaths exhibit. But if you have too much empathy, if it is hyper firing in the wrong situations to the wrong targets, you end up with the complete collapse of western civilization.

[Tyrus]

So basically, empathy is something we should all have, but at the same time, we all should be aware that empathy can be a weapon if. Exactly right. An unempathetic person is going to, they know what they're doing in terms of. They get that, hey, we need, like you said, 50%. But even, like, that's why the PETA commercials are two and a half minutes long. You know, like you see the dog in the snow and the music's playing and then they hit you with, hey, it's only a cup of a glass of coffee a day, you know, and that's all just. And then you're. They guilt you into submitting, you know, and then they. And then. So you will continue. This is now. Now, in just this little conversation, I now understand why when you donate to charities, they give you a shirt or a towel.

[Gad Saad]

Reciprocity. Yes, you give this. See, by the way, later in the, towards the end of the chapter, I basically give some like, prescriptions or a vaccine against suicidal empathy. And I say that it is perfectly reasonable to expect that in any dyadic relationship, relationship between two entities, that there be reciprocity. So, even so, there was a very famous political scientist Robert Axelrod, who Now, more than 40 years ago, ran several different simulations with different strategies in the Prisoner's Dilemma game. Are you familiar with the Prisoner's Dilemma game? Do you know what that is?

[Tyrus]

Refresh me.

[Gad Saad]

So Prisoner's Dilemma is exactly what cops already know. If you get two guys who just committed a crime, you separate them so they can't talk, and each of them can either confess or not. So there are four possibilities. Both confess, one confesses, the other one doesn't, the one does confess, and so on, or both don't confess. The ideal strategy would be for them to not confess, but what's even better is for me to confess while the other guy doesn't confess. And then you end up with a suboptimal choice because we both end up confessing if we do that. That's called the Prisoner's Dilemma. Well, the optimal strategy of all possible strategy in a repeat Prisoner's Dilemma, meaning when you and I play this game multiple times, is for me to start off by confessing, but in any future iteration of the game, to do tit for tat. If you had confessed in the previous round, I will do likewise if you had not confessed. In other words, it's built into our minds to care about reciprocity. Let me give you another example. If you and I, Tyrus, are very good friends, what will we do for our respective birthdays? You will remember my birthday and invite me out to a beautiful steak dinner in Manhattan. And then the expectation is, when it's your birthday, I will remember. Now, from a strict economic perspective, why don't we skip the whole charade? I'm going to pay $70 for you, you're going to pay $70 for me. We're going to end up at the same final spot, so let's not do it. The reason why that behavior becomes ritualized is because that mechanism of reciprocity oils it serves as the lubricant of our friendship. So reciprocity is important, but yet look what we do with foreign aid. We give trillions of dollars, but God forbid you should ever expect anything in return. That would make you a mean country.

[Tyrus]

Yeah, and it's such a double standard and at the same time trying to navigate because you don't want to leave people out in the cold. But at the same time, I think whenever things become a group is when empathy becomes a little more dangerous. When it's a small body mint, like government telling a mass population what they need to use empathy to get what they need. You never hear, hey, we got Enough. We've solved this problem. So that's the ad they got to keep you coming back and keep you coming back. So there is some like, oh, I'm going to get a tax return. I guess that's some form of reciprocity. But at the same time, it's never the return you think you're going to get.

[Gad Saad]

Indeed, indeed. And by the way, I mean, empathy has evolved to adhere to a certain calculus. So what do I mean by that? There's a thing called the trolley problem, which you often see it in philosophical experiments where you say, imagine there's a trolley, you know, hurling to kill three of your children and you could pull the lever, and if you pull the lever, it will divert the trolley and kill six random strangers. Now, from a strict calculus of which of the two options will kill fewer people, you should say, oh, well, let it kill my three children rather than the six random strangers. But if you recognize that our evolved brain, our cognitive and emotional systems have evolved to, to met out investments in an evolutionarily relevant way, then I think I wouldn't be saying something controversial in saying that nearly all of us would say, sorry, six strangers, but I'm going to save my three biological children. So the likelihood of you and I jumping in front of a bus to save one of our biological children is much greater than jumping in front of a bus to save a random child in Botswana. That's not because we're both psychopaths and callous, mean people. It's because, yes, you and I are empathetic, but we are strategically empathetic. It has to adhere to a biologically relevant calculus. Suicidal empathy erases all that. It says Guatemalan illegal immigrants are more worthy of your empathy than American vets who lost their limbs and fighting for our freedoms. It says having empathy for your rapist makes you a honorable and kind person. Can I actually give you an example of that from the book?

[Tyrus]

Yes, please.

[Gad Saad]

So very early in the book, I tell the story of a Norwegian guy who had been raped who had been sodomized by a Somali migrant. Now, because in Norway they are so kind and empathetic, he didn't get much of a, you know, prison sentence. He served maybe three or four years and then he was going to be deported back to Mogadishu. Now, the rapist, the rape victim, felt great existential angst and great guilt because now Ahmad or Muhammad or whatever his name was is not going to be able to maximally flourish in Mogadishu. Well, I'm here to tell you, Tyrus that usually if you were sodomized by someone forcefully, you probably shouldn't have empathy for his future trajectory.

[Tyrus]

Yeah. You know what? And that's funny, because even today it was. And it was. Maybe I was looking at. Listening to the news at the same time while I was getting ready. And there was. The judge apologized to the gentleman. I saw that. Yes. And it was because his living conditions weren't up to Paris.

[Gad Saad]

He didn't have a window.

[Tyrus]

He didn't have a window. Yes. He didn't have a window in his cell. But the. You know, and I was like, but why do we care? Like, he should have his lawyer. He should have his, you know, he should be fed and, you know, within the realms of. But I don't. I've stayed in the hotel rooms where I don't get a view, you know, or this the wrong side of the hotel. I don't expect 10,000 people to go on my social media and be like, this is an outrage. Tyrus needs sunlight. Well, I could walk outside.

[Gad Saad]

So there's a great study. I think it was 1984. I can't remember if it was in Nature or Science, one of these two super prestigious journals where the researcher simply did the following experimental manipulation. He took two groups of patients that had just had the exact same surgery. So you're controlling for every possible, you know, extraneous factor other than this one manipulation. Half the subjects were placed in a post recovery room without a window. Half were placed in a recovery room with a window. Now, to the judge's point, the people who were placed in a recovery room with a window ended up faring better. But let's leave our empathy for post surgery patients and not for guys who allegedly are trying to kill the President

[Tyrus]

of the United States and anybody in his way.

[Gad Saad]

Exactly.

[Tyrus]

But the book spends a large amount of time on. You talk about the reversal of moral priorities. Criminals over victim. What we just talked about open borders. But how do you deal with someone who is so far down? And we see it a lot with the protests that their empathy is anger. It's almost. And violence in a lot of cases. But the whole point. I think it was this weekend. There was a woman who had a shirt on that said kindness, but she was beating the hell out of a pinata and of the president. So it was like I. The duality of the. It's insanity in some cases, but this has affected a large amount of our population. But also, I see it very. And it's not a sexist thing, but it just seems like Women have taken it on to a whole other level. You see a lot of the anger and this, and it's just unreconcilable. You can't talk to them. They're, you know, they're. They'll literally, in some cases, risk their lives or your lives for something that you don't. They don't. If you actually gave them the facts, like when they're arguing for, like, queers for Palestine or women for Palestine, and you're like, do you understand if you were in that environment right now, you would not survive this behavior?

[Gad Saad]

But actually, to your point about queers for Palestine, I have a dialogue that I took from a street interviewer. I think his name is Hermes, or I can't remember his exact name, but it's all in the book where he intercepts a woman and he says, oh, you're here at this rally. You're for Gaza, whatever. She goes, yes. She goes, but, oh, do you know that in. In Gaza, they. They kill, you know, the queer community? She goes, well, I'm queer. He goes, but so then you know what they would do to you? She goes, yes, I don't care. She goes. He says, you. You don't care if they would kill you? She goes, no, I don't. That even if they were to kill me, that doesn't mean that I shouldn't be supporting them. And so now let me explain a term that people who follow me on social media may be familiar with, and I certainly went into describing it in the book. So I talk about when I see a Jew, a Jewish person who's got, you know, hashtag Jews for Palestine or whatever, I call them Wood cricket Jews. Now why am I calling them wood crickets? Because. And this kind of relates also to this book right here, the Parasitic Mind, one of my earlier books. The wood cricket, the actual insect abhors water. It wants nothing to do with water. But when its brain is hijacked by a hairworm, which is a brain parasite, the hair worm needs the wood cricket to jump into water, commit suicide so that it could complete its reproductive cycle. So it has literally hijacked its brain so that the wood cricket is just zombified. It just. Just executes the genetic imperative of the hairworm. That's exactly what's happening with Queers for Palestine. It doesn't matter if you throw me off the top of the building so that my head splatters. I know that I will go to my death while stroking my luxuriant hair, looking at myself in the mirror of Moral preening. I'm a good person, so even in death I can rejoice at having been or. Or gastically empathetic to those who killed me. I am better than you, Tyrus.

[Tyrus]

And that's. It's being better without proving it.

[Gad Saad]

Exactly.

[Tyrus]

Because you're right. Yeah. Because moral high ground doesn't have any solidity in it. You're not on an actual. You didn't actually climb a mountain. You just.

[Gad Saad]

That's right.

[Tyrus]

You just. And that's. I think for me that is the. Because I'm, I'm all about. I think you should have compassion to a certain extent. But I also think it's. Again, it should be case. A case by case situation. And when you talk about, especially when someone is. When we are seeing this, especially from our judicial system, we're seeing a lot of empathy, reduced sentences, and it's like, well, he's repressed or he was poor. And I was like, that's, that's an oxymoron. That's not. You're. You're basically saying because he, for whatever reason, didn't thrive in his environment, it's our. We should accept his non societal behavior as our fault. So we really should be the ones going to jail because we didn't make sure that he had everything he needed. In a lot of these cases, when you look at them, they had too much.

[Gad Saad]

Yeah, let me break that down for you. So in the book, I introduced the term blank slate felons. And let me explain why I used that term. So the blank slate view of the human mind, which is also in Latin known as the tabula rasa. Tabula rasa means empty table. Right. Is the following idea. We are all born with equal potentiality, equally lovely, equally kind, equally empathetic, with no biological evolved imperatives in our brain. And then it is only socialization and our life trajectories that make us who we eventually become. This is known as social constructivism. It's one of the parasitic ideas that I discuss in this book. Now, before I then link it to the felons that we're talking about, let me explain why it is such an alluring parasitic idea. It's a hopeful message. If I'm a parent, I love the idea of knowing that if I could just hug my child just enough, he could be the next Michael Jordan, the next Lionel Messi, or the next Isaac Newton. It couldn't be the case that Gad Saad, who's a lot shorter than Tyrus, is less likely to play in the NBA. That just sounds mean. If only my parents, my Jewish parents can find a way to hug me enough, there's every chance that I could

[Tyrus]

be Duncan by the time you're seven,

[Gad Saad]

I'll be dunking by the time I'm seven, I just have to find the right schedule of which how many Big Macs to eat a week? So that's a very hopeful message. Perfectly rooted in bullshit, but it's hopeful. So it's easy for people to succumb to this allure of social constructivism. Now let's apply it to the felons. If you believe that we are all born with equally beautiful angelic personhoods, then if the felon who's been arrested 194 times so far, and if he happens to be, God forbid, a felon of color now since we live in a deeply white supremacist society. So he's already been deeply punished.

[Tyrus]

He's already a prisoner.

[Gad Saad]

He's already in prison. And you know this Tyrus, right? So you've been in prison.

[Tyrus]

I used it to my manipulative behavior when I was younger.

[Gad Saad]

There you go. So now just because he's been convicted 184 times, you're going to double punish him by putting him in jail? Why don't you find your empathetic bone and give him that 185th chance?

[Tyrus]

Racist 185. Now here, here's the other. Here's the thing. When they become. When emp. Empathy is used for violence and we're. That we're seeing when they. When people attack someone because of a. Because they're not empathetic to their cause, whatever it is. When does that. Is that. That we're. The aggressive nature. I'm trying to find where it comes from. I get the bleeding heart stuff. I get the crying out loud. I get the singing songs. When you protest of, you know, and what you're doing is wrong. And we're. But then when they. Their means to an end is the exact behavior that they're claiming the other side is doing. The other side. And many cases is not. We hear this often with the. Both sides. Both sides, we hear that. We hear that argument a lot. I think when it comes to violence, it's. The individual has earned that comparisons and that in those situations to me are just another form of lazy empathy. Well, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yes. Tyrus punched the intern. Yes, but the, but the intern, he was, he, he was late.

[Gad Saad]

He was asking for.

[Tyrus]

Yeah, he was asking for it. Yeah, he had a MAGA hat on.

[Gad Saad]

There's And I'm going to. I'm actually going to give you the philosophical argument for what you just said. But before I do that, I tell a. There's a great Arabic saying which is often translated to French, but I'll translate it to English since I suspect most of your viewers don't speak Arabic nor French. If you don't know why you're beating up your wife, don't worry, she knows. Right?

[Tyrus]

So, okay, I laugh in shock. Not. I have no empathy for that joke.

[Gad Saad]

That's literally an Arabic saying, by the way. And I come from the Middle east, so I should know.

[Tyrus]

Okay, one more time. Just. If you don't know why. If you don't know why you're beating your wife, it's okay because she knows, don't worry about it. She knows why.

[Gad Saad]

Do you want me to say it in French?

[Tyrus]

Yes.

[Gad Saad]

If you don't know why you're beating up your wife, fear not, do not worry, she knows why.

[Tyrus]

So it's eloquent on top of it.

[Gad Saad]

There you go.

[Tyrus]

But.

[Gad Saad]

Okay, let me now explain the philosophical reason why all the progressive degenerates try to justify political violence. So in. In ethics, you have two ethical systems. There's what's called deontological ethics and consequentialist ethics. Deontological ethics are absolute statements, like a principle. It is never okay to lie would be a deontological statement. It is okay to lie if I wish to spare someone's feelings would be a consequential statement. Now, most people on earth are perfectly fine being consequentialist for many things in life. So that, for example, I often joke, but I'm being serious. If you want to have a long lasting marriage and if your spouse asks the following question, you ready? Do I look fat in those jeans? Then you put on your consequentialist hat and you go, no, sweetie, you've never looked more beautiful. Maybe I'm slightly lying, but it is for a higher cause, which is I don't want to hurt the feelings of the woman that I love.

[Tyrus]

Right?

[Gad Saad]

But now here's the important part. For certain foundational principles that, say, define the American ethos. Freedom of speech, freedom of inquiry, presumption of innocence. Those have to be deontological statements. If you say, I believe in freedom of inquiry, as long as you don't hurt someone's feelings, then you're falling into a consequentialist trap when you should have been putting on your deontological hat. So now we link it to political violence, the progressives say, yes, of course I'm against violence, but if I'm dealing with an existential threat that is literally about to end humanity, as is the case for Donald Trump, then it is perfectly justified. And actually I should be lauded as a celebrated. Pathetic. Celebrated because I am protecting your children from this monster. Therefore, that deontological rule doesn't apply for Orange Himmler.

[Tyrus]

Right? Where and where do you think the. Because I always think. And it's not. Listen, we also see it in the non political realm. We see it a lot in relationships. I did this because I was trying to spare you from that. And, and you know, I didn't this, that whatever. But where do you think the. When they get to that point of martyrdom? The. There's an arrogance to it. You, you're the savior. You're the, you're the one like where does that. To that point, you had kind of skated through life usually not in the best physical shape mentally. You. It's always often an appearance thing. They got to have bright, they have to be noticed and the hair and whatever. And then they get, and then they get to the point where it's almost a. I hate I think saying a God complex is over making it bigger than what it is. But there is a certain. I know. But they don't have the wisdom, the wealth. And if you, and if you ask them a simple question, how so it's met with just even more aggression. So even when you chat, when you try to reach them intellectually, like let's take emotion out of it intellectually, how do you square this? How do you square striking someone who has not struck anyone, but saying you're striking him because he's gonna strike someone. And I'm trying to say that as non dumb as I possibly can, but it's hard.

[Gad Saad]

So I don't know if last time, when you were kind enough to invite me on, the first time I think we discussed, we focused mainly on the happiness book.

[Tyrus]

Yes, yes.

[Gad Saad]

And I can't remember if we discussed this, but even if we did, it's relevant for today's discussion. In that happiness book, I talk about the relationship between happiness scores and political orientation. And you'll see in a second why it's relevant to what you're saying. And it turns out, and the research has been repeatedly replicated so it's an unequivocal finding. Conservatives tend to score much higher on happiness than the progressives. And I offered a plausible explanation for it, which now I'm going to then eventually link it back to what you just said. So the conservative, by definition, wakes up in the morning and says, I may not live in a perfect society, but there is a bunch of stuff here that are worth conserving. We do have the First Amendment and we've got the Second Amendment, and we've beaten slavery and abolished it, and we live in the freest society ever. So it's not perfect, but it's about so far as perfect.

[Tyrus]

70%.

[Gad Saad]

Exactly. And I want to fight hard to conserve many of our foundational values. And because I'm very optimistic about the society that I live in. I wish to have children. By the way, there's a link between fertility rate and whether you're conservative or progressive. Now the progressive wakes up in the morning full of existential doom and gloom. I live in a misogynistic society where I committed a genocide on the indigenous people. There's Islamophobia. The cops are killing all black people every day. There's a genocide of black people. It's misogynistic, it's Islamophobic. It's a terrible society. So to your point about being the savior, I wish to create a better future world just around the corner. I will be able to get to Unicornia as long as I intervene and fix the problem. Since nobody else is doing it, maybe it's incumbent on me to interfere. So the conservative wakes up and says, I want to work harder to conserve the great beauty of my society. The progressive wakes up and says, we need to dismantle this society and create a future utopia.

[Tyrus]

And with those two mindsets, it's almost a religious point of view. It's very. I don't think you can convince someone who's that. Who wakes up like that every day. And maybe that's why we don't see as much violence on the conservative side when they are attacked as we're seeing on the other side. I think it's, It's. It's exposed more because there's. They're not. They haven't got that validation, so they, they have to create validation. They haven't. We don't have a video of President Trump showing up on Fox and Friends in a general's uniform with rows of tanks and helicopters heading for. Heading for New York yet. Yes, yes. Yeah, it's coming. It's coming this week, next week. Oh, we're so close. We have the evidence. Yeah, I, Yeah, I refuse to make my living that way. But. But you. I don't know that you can. And I, I always. The one thing I admire about You. And every time you come on, I feel like I'm. I'm sitting in a college because I always come away with a different perspective on. On things. And I think that's something that it doesn't matter whether I agree or not agree. And a lot of this stuff are things that you. I tend to overthink or. But the way you break it down as you present it, I don't feel like you're telling me how to interpret this. Right. You're just saying this is the reality of it.

[Gad Saad]

Yeah.

[Tyrus]

And at the same time, you do speak with a very positive emo. Emotionalness to you. It's not dry. You know, you're not like, attention. Empathy is. You know, there's a pizzazz. There's some charisma to it.

[Gad Saad]

And I'm kind of easy. I'm easy on the eyes.

[Tyrus]

Yeah. Yeah, that helps. The glasses are a big. The big help. And, you know, not everybody can go full frost. You've done it. I'm not there yet. But there's a very. A lacking of when they speak. And I guess you kind of made that of any type of hope, of positivity, because they're chasing something that's not there. So you just keep making it bigger and bigger. I keep saying, well, the good news is at some point you can come out and say, well, oh, we solved it. And then you would get reverence, or like, jay, we've done it. But is it. Then I. Then the pyramid. Well, they do it because there's a lot of money in it. There's this and that. But I think for a lot of those people who are on those front lines, none of that's coming to them.

[Gad Saad]

Right. I'll give you a great example of that, and it will resonate with you, because the daughter of the guy I'm about to speak about is the current mayor of Seattle. Oh, okay.

[Tyrus]

Yep.

[Gad Saad]

So Katie Wilson, whom I've never met, is the daughter of David Sloan Wilson. Maybe I shouldn't be giving him any. He's going to get more famous now, riding my coattail. David Sloan Wilson is an evolutionary biologist with whom I had a wonderful relationship. He was a. He's about 15 years older than me, so he's like in his mid-70s. He's not professor emeritus at Bigginton University. You know, a very well respected evolutionary biologist who had invited me several times to his university to talk about my academic research, my evolutionary research. I've invited him to Montreal. He's come over to our house for lunch and so on. Well, about a few years ago, I had posted something that was critical of peace be upon him, prophet Barack Obama and, and also of the, the, the more venomous creature than a black mamba known as Nancy Pelosi. And so I had posted some, you know, let you know and in my usual sort of humorous, colorful way, you

[Tyrus]

present an idea, but you, you leave with a smile on your face.

[Gad Saad]

I leave with a smile on my face. Right. So he, he puts out a tweet which I'm paraphrasing because I don't have the tweet in front of me where he says, gad Saad is a very good friend of mine and a top rate scientist. But unfortunately it seems like he's lost his way. It seems like he's lost his humanity. And I pray and hope that one day, you know, he finds his fold back within the human race. So I had literally lost my membership in Homo sapiens. I was.

[Tyrus]

Yeah, welcome to the ape crowd.

[Gad Saad]

Yeah, welcome to the ape crowd. Right. And I mean, forgive me, I don't think you'll mind me saying this. If, if, if, if in the United States you hear the N word pejoratively used. As a person from the Middle east, we used to be called the sand N word.

[Tyrus]

Yep.

[Gad Saad]

Right?

[Tyrus]

Yeah. You guys shared it with us.

[Gad Saad]

Yeah, There you go. And so I went back to being a sand N word. I was no longer a full fledged human. But he held out empathetic hope that I will find my way back.

[Tyrus]

You could re.

[Gad Saad]

Evolve. I could re evolve into becoming a full fledged human who can be invited to the cool kids party. Now how could it be that this otherwise perfectly reasonable person that I've had great affection for and great respect for scientific work could act this way because they are criticized.

[Tyrus]

If you are going to be president of the United States, regardless of what side of the fence you're on, you're going to have criticism. You should expect criticism. Every decision that you make is going to ruin somebody else's day. Somebody will be profit from it. Someone will be excited about it and somebody will be like, man, my taxes just went up, man. I don't understand why I have to. I'm losing. You know, I can remember voting for Barack Obama the first time solely because he was black. And I had to, it was my duty. I had to change the world in that young mindset. Right. And I remember when it wasn't about that, when it was Bill Clinton, Ross Perot and George Bush, I believe I was all about Ross Perot. He was different. He Spoke to me. Now, when I go back and now I look at when he ran against McCain, I look back now with wisdom. I don't think I would have voted for him for one simple thing. I saw more leadership in a moment when, and especially in today's day and age, where a woman stood up and said to John McCain that he was a Muslim, he was a terrorist, he was an American, I'm scared. And he said, no, ma', am, he's a good man. We just disagree on politics, right. That cost him his presidency. And it was probably the last time we ever saw decency in politics. And Barack had that shield, that same shield that I was using, that a lot of. That a lot of people of color had figured out, nothing's my fault. Those were the worst years of my life in terms of success because I would not take any ownership in failure because it wasn't my fault. So if it's not my fault, I'm fine. I don't need to improve. I don't need to lose weight. I don't need to be a better. I wasn't married then, but a better all person.

[Gad Saad]

The system is keeping you down.

[Tyrus]

Yeah. This is system. It's not me. It's not me that instead of hitting the books, I'm at a nightclub until 3:00 in the morning, drunk off mass with my buddies. No, no, no, no, no, no.

[Gad Saad]

You know that when you were overweight and now you're looking. I mean, if I wasn't married to a woman, I'd be coming for you, Tyler.

[Tyrus]

That would be great. And if I wasn't married to a woman in love with women. Be the same thing. I feel you, but.

[Gad Saad]

Exactly. We just have to decide who's going to play what role. But otherwise I think it's looking pretty good. But I was going to say, did you know that fat shaming and the, the. The promulgation of the idea that you're not healthy at any weight is actually a form of white supremacy. Did you know that?

[Tyrus]

Yeah. But you know when it's funny because when I hear that it's white supremacy. If it was white supremacy, we'd all be skinny because they wouldn't give us any food, they wouldn't feed us.

[Gad Saad]

But I wanted to. I was looking for a prop and so I found one. This is whatever, something you use when you're reading a book at night. But I want you for a second to imagine that this is the cork of a wine bottle, okay? Because I don't have a cork of wine. And by the way, I know that our mutual friend Greg loves that saying of mine right now. It's an Arabic saying, which when translated,

[Tyrus]

you're one for one with them right now, because I'm going to use that in a sentence. I don't know how, but I'm going to figure it out.

[Gad Saad]

There you go. So the expression, and I'm going to link it to Barack Obama in a second, the expression is getting drunk simply by smelling the cork of the wine bottle. Now, what it basically means is that you are of such weak constituency that you don't actually have to drink the wine to get all delirious and drunk. You just go, and you're drunk. Now, I argue that what you went through when you voted for the degenerate was that you got drunk by smelling the cork of the Barack Obama wine thing, right? He's got a mellifluous voice. He's got a radiant smile. He says a bunch of Southern Baptist stuff, every syllable of which is pure bullshit platitudes, but it sounds good. So look how I'm getting drunk. You see how I'm getting drunk by the cork. The cork of Barack Obama. On the other hand, there is this really mean, nasty ogre that comes from Queens or wherever Trump comes from. He's cantankerous. He speaks like a bully. So look, I'm getting drunk in a negative way. I never said I love Barack Obama because of fiscal policy and immigration policy, or I hate Trump because it's all based on smelling the cork of the

[Tyrus]

wine and having everyone see you smell the cork. It's not just enough, it's, look at me, I am here for change. You know, and then. And everyone has their cork up and the one guy in the corner like, but it's the taxation racist. Peace. Get him out, get him out. You know, and if I see, if

[Gad Saad]

I see you using the cork thing on the five and Dr. Good Looks doesn't get the proper attribution, I'm coming for you, Tyrus.

[Tyrus]

You're going to get it. Now, I'm trying to weevil how I could weave in. Hey, if you're your wife and you can't remember why, no worries, she knows why. That one I might, I think is going to be safe to the confines of, of my own house until I can find a way to safely. Because I don't, I don't think we get the same numbers. If it was just me calling you on the phone like, hey, remember me? Hello, Doc. But I also, when I think about. And here's the part that the reason the most recent assassination attempt was when that John McCain thing really hit me, because his statement was, although we don't know the motivations of the. Would be as. And as soon as I heard that, I thought, what, you bastard. You were running from John McCain and had a moment. He could have, if he would have answered the question the way that you did, it might have been a different presidency.

[Gad Saad]

Yep.

[Tyrus]

If he says, well, he. We don't know his motivations, we don't know his relationships with the terrorist Muslim community, but, you know, he seems like an okay guy to me. That's a lot different. And he had an opportunity and this is what I get. I thought he could have paid it forward. It should have been condemn, condemn, thank you. That President Trump and his family and everyone there was safe tonight. But it never got to that. He had to let everybody know. Well, we don't know why he did it. And it goes back to the court. We don't know what his motivations were. Well, let's hope it wasn't because he was oppressed.

[Gad Saad]

Well, and so in the parasitic mind, I've got a whole chapter titled ostrich parasitic syndrome. The idea being that even though the ostrich doesn't literally do this, the idea of the metaphor is it buries its head so that it doesn't face reality. And so there, to your general point, I demonstrate the unbelievable ostrich parasitic syndrome that the west has exhibited when it comes to Islamic terrorism. So I literally list a whole bunch of reasons that fellow professors who are supposed to be, you know, have a whole bunch of degrees before and after their names that will. So the, so the, the terrorist Muhammad Ahmad Hussain Mahmoud says, here is why I'm doing it. I'm doing it because of these four Quranic principles. And this is why it's perfectly legitimate and justifiable for me to kill all the kuffar, the non Muslims, the dirty non Muslims, then Bill Nye with his very pretty bow tie and, you know, he's, he's the science guy, so you have to take him seriously. Goes on Huffington Post and says that the Bataclan terrorist attack in Paris that killed almost 200 people at the concert was very conceivably due to climate change. That's one. Now here's another one. You ready? Almost.

[Tyrus]

Need a moment for that one.

[Gad Saad]

Just keep breathing.

[Tyrus]

It was hot. So give him a fan. It won't happen.

[Gad Saad]

Exactly. Number one. Number two, there were some terrorists, Islamic terrorists out of like a suburb of Brussels that committed some terror attacks around also 2015, 2016. And then a Jewish, a wood cricket Jew, politician, municipal politician from the Brussels area said, well, you know, many of those Muslim young guys that grow up in like a art impoverished environment, right. You know, you have food deserts. Well, they're never going to the museum and experiencing Modigliano and Picasso and Chagall. So that can very effectively lead to joining isis. And so this is why I always make sure to take my children to museums, because I don't want them to go to Raqqa, Syria to join isis. So when you get people who, without missing a beat, right, without it being satirical, putting Islamic terrorism on the broad shoulders of climate change, on no field

[Tyrus]

trips to the museum.

[Gad Saad]

No field trip to the museums because they play video games, because they studied engineering. Well, I know a lot of guys who studied engineering. I did my undergrad in mathematics and computer science. I was hanging around with a lot of engineering students. None of them went and joined isis. So. But again, it's more empathetic to avoid marginalizing the noble and beautiful peaceful religion of Islam. It is literally that that led to the British government and the British authorities and the police to say, yeah, I know we're hearing about 250,000 plus white British girls being systematically groomed and gang raped up and down Britain in every village and every town. But it is wrong to call those guys Pakistani Muslims even though the great majority of perpetrators were Pakistani Muslims who used their religion to justify why it is okay to rape the non Muslim little girls. Because if we were to call them that, then that's going to lead to the scourge of Islamophobia and we can't allow that. So. Hey, little girls, take one for the team, won't you?

[Tyrus]

Yeah. Which is disgusting. It's basically the head of the wood crickets is handing out the worms.

[Gad Saad]

I love how you're now incorporating the lingo. I love it. Thank you.

[Tyrus]

Listen, I'm sure you have, for the students who show up in your classes, I'm sure you have a high turnout rate in terms of high grades and stuff. The stuff is simple. But it's because here's the thing, everyone, I have, I used to go to London every year. I would do a, a tour. I would. And even this year I wasn't going to wrestle, but I was, I was going to do like autograph signings and stuff like that. I used to go and it was always one of my favorite trips of the year and I won't go anymore. And it started about three years ago. I Started saying, no, I'm sorry, I can't do the Comic Cons there. I can't. You know, And. And for my, you know, selling books and stuff in Europe is. Is pretty lucrative, but you got to go out there. And I was just. It's not worth it because I have to worry about them looking at my tweets even more. So if I see that type of behavior, it seems that you are punished for even trying to do anything about it or saying, hey, I witnessed this. Why are you guys doing. They're slowly. And I. People always try to be careful with my words, but it is a quiet war where they're just slowly taking England over. They've conceded land, they've conceded neighborhoods. They're. They're literally withdrawing. Like, oh, no, no. They would rather them have a section of a city which is basically Sharia law, which is. And again, there is no. This isn't an honorable religion. These are lazy young men who refuse to work, refuse to better themselves. Ignorant, no education, basically thinking they're at a. A, A buffet of young women and men with. And then every time you can't. Oh, but my. My God says, this is okay. And then you have England going, well, he did say it's his God. So I'm so religion. It's religion, you know, so let me.

[Gad Saad]

There's an Arabic expression which I also discuss in the book, where. So now, you know, people obviously recognize me a lot more, so they won't come up to me and speak to me openly in Arabic because they know what my positions are. But 25 years ago, when I wasn't nearly as known, and of course, Arabic is my mother tongue, I would speak to all those guys in Arabic without them knowing what my positions were, without knowing that without them knowing that I'm Jewish and so on. To them, I'm just another Arabic guy. Well, they would always tell me in Arabic, the West is a woman to be mounted.

[Tyrus]

Yep.

[Gad Saad]

Okay, now. And the reason for that is. Actually, I explained the theoretical, you know, framework that explains this in suicidal empathy. So in the west, our compassion, our tolerance, our empathy, our sympathy, our magnanimity are all viewed as laudable virtues that you aspire to exhibit. And again, you hope that they will be properly understood and then reciprocated. Folks from those regions see compassion, generosity, empathy, and sympathy and see weakness. Weakness, weakness, weakness.

[Tyrus]

So this is, Say again, an opportunity.

[Gad Saad]

An opportunity. So that which you are viewing in the west as magnanimous is viewed as feminized weakness. Therefore, that's why the west is to be mounted. Now I will literally get very high placed politicians who will write to me privately, say, you know, I mean, I'm this diplomat and I'm this guy. I didn't even know that. And I'm always thinking to myself, how the hell did you not know that? What made you presume that all of the values that you hold dear here will be exactly processed in the same way in another culture? That's why cultures are different. Different, right. Some cultures think it's perfectly okay to have female genital mutilation. Other cultures don't. Some cultures believe in honor killings, others don't. But yet one of the biggest weaknesses in the west is what I call lack of cultural theory of mind. You presume that what my cultural values are are going to be transportable in exactly the same way to other cultures. They're not.

[Tyrus]

And especially when there's no, there's no push to change. There's no, you know, open borders was. It used to be very difficult. You had to pass tests, you had to be sponsored, you had to, you had to earn the right to be here. And once you get here, you want to assimilate and be a part of the. It became. Empathy has spread to where they think they're coming here as a hero, you know, and it's. You're not. And, and when I, when you get a. And trust me, I get. It always makes me laugh when someone will do an interview with someone or talk to somebody and then afterwards that the real truth comes out. And, and I have this new catchphrase, like how intellectually stupid are you actually? Or are you just that greedy? You don't give a damn about what happens to everyday people. They're not your children in front of the bus.

[Gad Saad]

Exactly.

[Tyrus]

So those 250 women. But I'm saving my family. I have a nice home, I have nice things. I'm on TV every week. I have prestige. And so a few eggs get cracked along the way because the greater good is giving opportunity to these oppressors.

[Gad Saad]

And that is captured by a brilliant term by Rob Henderson, which I know you're familiar with luxury beliefs, right? Or as Victor Davis Hansen says, right. You don't suffer the consequences of your ideology. So when I sit behind the gated community where I live, right? And again I'm stroking my beautiful hair in the mirror of moral preening. I can say it is simply mean for other people to not have a chance at the American experience. But that's because I'm surrounded by 17 guys with big guns and Those folks can never come to me. So it's a win. Win. I could advertise to the world how kind of.

[Tyrus]

And empathize my security mountain.

[Gad Saad]

Perfect. Right. So there you go. By the way, here, there's a very important term from evolutionary biology. It's called costly signaling. And let me explain what, what that is. So if you look, for example, at the peacock, from a strict survival perspective,

[Tyrus]

it's a bad idea.

[Gad Saad]

It's a bad idea for the peacock to have evolved that big tail because that actually reduces its survivability. It makes it more conspicuous to predators. It makes them less likely to take flight. So why could have. Why would evolution have selected for that trait? Well, it selects for that trait because it confers a reproductive advantage to the peacock. Because that tail is saying to the peahens, to the females, look, despite the fact that I have this very burdensome tail, that that reduces my survivability. Here I am. I'm still standing. Shouldn't you mate with me? It's an honest signal. Now it's an honest signal because it's a costly signal. I have to bear a cost because

[Tyrus]

why I'm showing you the fox is also seeing it.

[Gad Saad]

Exactly. But when I'm sitting behind the Vatican walls, apologies to all my Catholic friends. And I've got the Pope swimming in the infinity pool of suicidal empathy telling us that, you know, Christianity and Islam, it's just one and the same. It's all beautiful and kind as thousands of my people. I'm speaking as the Pope. Right. I'm the vicar of Christ on earth. Who cares about those Nigerian Christians that are getting massacred by the thousands. I can show that I am an empathetic vicar of Christ. Behind those tall walls of Vatican, I'm a good person.

[Tyrus]

Not to mention that your walls are riddled with pedophilia.

[Gad Saad]

He said that. I didn't say that.

[Tyrus]

No, I'm. That's a. I'm not making it up.

[Gad Saad]

No, no, of course.

[Tyrus]

You know, I just. I always love when you can tell somebody else's yard when the grass isn't growing in green, but maybe clean your weeds out first, then I'll listen to.

[Gad Saad]

That's just because God gave us trials and tribulations and this is why, you know, the Lord is, you know, was crucified for our sins. Right. That's the thing. People think that I'm anti religion. I'm hardly.

[Tyrus]

That I'm very honest about it.

[Gad Saad]

Exactly. And I realize that very earthly human beings can take religion, distort it in Ways that justifies everything that they can do, and they become these criminal hypocrites. And so whenever I attack some element of any religion, people think that I'm innately anti religion. Nothing could be further from the truth. I recognize the evolutionary importance of why people need to have the belief instinct. But that doesn't mean that everything that religious people do is kosher.

[Tyrus]

So I just want you to understand, because I've learned a lot today. And this. I will finish this book in the next few days, and I'm going to have a lot more questions. But for those people who get mad at you, let me tell you, like being a scientist, being a. A man of. Of a doctor, and have done all these amazing things, you're still down to earth. And that's so rare. I just want to tell you why. And I want to tell you why. I don't even know if you knew that. Knew this one. You took a phrase when you were talking about how the Muslims see the west and indirectly connected it to one of the greatest movies of all time. Scarface. Al Pacino. He's driving in the car with Manny, and he's telling Manny, he's looking around and he says, you know what America is? It's one big pussy just waiting to get. And they. And you did that. But you did it classy. And that's why you're my favorite guy. You have the greatest name ever. Gad. Sad suicidal empathy. I've got, what, four copies? At some point, I'm gonna need one autograph. But this is a permanent fixture on my podcast. It's going on the wall of fame. I'm gonna finish this this week. This is amazing. And thank you for having the courage. And you shouldn't even have to say courage to just present things as they are. And the one thing about you is you are open to the conversation. You're open to new ideas. And I. I thank you for that. And I try to model myself. Everything as brilliant as you are, you try not to know every. You. You never claim to know everything. And it's severely lacking in today when you get a chance to talk to a great mind. And I learned a lot. Again, man, thank you so much. And you can get it on Amazon and bookstores everywhere. And I. This is an amazing book, and you're an amazing man. And thank you so much for your time today.

[Gad Saad]

Thank you for the great words. And you could have me back any.

[Tyrus]

I will, because I'm going to finish this because. And I have to have you back to let you know if I'm ever able to weave in, but.

[Gad Saad]

Sorry. I shall never accept a photo that makes us stand next to each other.

[Tyrus]

That's fine. We'll always sit there.

[Gad Saad]

I have an ego. And my ego does not permit me to stand to a specimen next to a specimen of 6 foot 8. That's just cruel, man.

[Tyrus]

Okay, you got it. No problem. That's fine. All right, boss. Be well. And thank you.

[Gad Saad]

Thank you. Thank you. Cheers. Take care.