Linda McMahon: Ending the Dept. of Ed. & The WWE Legacy| Planet Tyrus

Summary

Planet Tyrus: "Linda McMahon: Ending the Dept. of Ed. & The WWE Legacy"

Host: Tyrus (Brodus Clay)
Guest: Linda McMahon, with references to her time as Secretary of Education
Release Date: April 2, 2026

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Episode Overview

This dynamic episode of Planet Tyrus welcomes Linda McMahon for a candid, high-energy conversation spanning her journeys from wrestling’s executive suite to the Cabinet, with an emphasis on her current push to dissolve the U.S. Department of Education. The pair share personal stories from their shared WWE past, debate the nuts and bolts of education reform, and revisit McMahon’s legacy as both a business builder and public servant. Throughout, Tyrus keeps the tone warm, witty, and real—delivering a mix of nostalgia, serious policy talk, and straight-shooting reflections.

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Key Discussion Points

1. Linda McMahon’s Unconventional Mission: Shutting Down the Department of Education

• Why Shut It Down?
  McMahon outlines her assignment from the President: her tenure’s success would be measured by her own obsolescence—if all works as intended, she’d be the last Secretary of Education.

  “You’re going to be successful when you fire yourself.”
  (Linda McMahon quoting the President, 00:11, 01:04)

• States & Parental Control:
  She stresses that 90% of education budgets already come from state and local sources, with federal input mainly 10% funding and selective grants.

  “There’s no one size fits all in education, and every state needs to do what’s best for that state.” (01:44)

2. Wrestling Reflections and Personal Growth

• Tyrus’ WrestleMania Disappointment:
  Tyrus recounts how a key WrestleMania match was cut, his emotional fallout, and Linda’s personal support.

  “You said, ‘I read your tweet last night and thank you so much for loving this sport. And it’s going to be okay.’ And it meant so much to me.” (04:20)

• Behind-the-Scenes WWE Culture:
  Praise for Linda, Stephanie, and Triple H for their genuine care for talent, both during and after their WWE tenure.

  “You guys have always been very supportive and positive and honest. That’s something that’s rare today.” (06:18)

• Linda Taking Bumps:
  They reminisce about Linda enduring physical stunts in the ring.

  “I was the world’s worst stunner performer ever...Stone Cold told me...I fought the whole thing, and he finally wrestled me down.” (11:41)

3. Innovative Civic Engagement and Education Initiatives

• Return Education to the States Tour:
  Linda describes her ongoing tour to all 50 states promoting civic knowledge and education reform. (12:26)
• History Rocks Tour:
  A civics-based, interactive event mixing trivia, competitions, and school spirit to foster nonpartisan history engagement.

  “It’s all red, white, and blue...starts with the Pledge of Allegiance and then the national anthem...the whole program is about civics...The kids love it.” (13:00 – 15:07)

• Earlier Efforts: Be A STAR and SmackDown Your Vote:
  The roots of her current philosophy are traced to earlier WWE outreach programs aimed at bullying prevention and voter registration.

  “We did Smackdown Your Vote...All about register to vote...not trying to tell you how to vote. Just register.” (15:59 – 16:34)

4. Education Policy: Problems and Reform

• Low Literacy & Math Proficiency:
  Citing alarming statistics: only 30%–35% of high school seniors and 8th graders are proficient in reading and math.

  “Unbelievably pathetic that only 30% of our high school seniors...are proficient at reading...It hasn’t changed.” (00:14, 20:36)

• Role of States in Reform:
  Linda highlights successful state-led reading programs in Mississippi and Louisiana, achieved by empowering local innovation.

  “States are the ones who are being innovative...They went from being last to almost now middle of the pack.” (21:18 – 22:06)

• Downsizing the Department:
  Through interagency cooperation (Labor, Treasury, State), Linda is reassigning federal programs and responsibilities, aiming for cost savings and greater transparency.

  “We’re relocating to a smaller building, downsize. So we’re going to save taxpayers about $4.5 million a year...” (27:22, 28:01)

5. Pushback, Politics, & Partisanship

• Expecting—and Receiving—Political Resistance:
  McMahon notes the default skepticism, “Trump derangement syndrome,” and local-level resistance, regardless of program merit.

  “We are in the world of politics...people are elected, and all elections are local.” (28:34 – 28:38)

• Department of Ed’s Origin:
  Defends that pre-1980, federal support already existed (Title 1, special needs), so eliminating the Department wouldn’t erase those resources. (29:17 – 29:23)

6. Teacher Quality & Political Neutrality in the Classroom

• Declining Standards for Teachers:
  Tyrus observes diminished credentialing requirements. Linda affirms teaching is a noble profession and supports both rigorous standards and flexible paths for subject experts to enter classrooms.

  “The kids in the classroom shouldn’t know what party the teacher belongs to...both sides should be taught.” (31:46 – 32:37)

• Bipartisan Civic Engagement:
  Calls for returning to debate, critical thinking, and policy neutrality in K–12 education.

  “There have been four states that found out [History Rocks tour] was coming, and parents called…they didn’t want ‘partisan politics’...They clearly have no idea what this is about.” (34:02 – 34:21)

7. Workforce Skills, Trade Schools, and Real-World Preparation

• Value of Trades & Vocational Education:
  Both praise trade schools and community colleges collaborating with high schools to fill workforce gaps—plumbers, electricians, HVAC are in dire shortage.

  “Fastest growing group of millionaires in the country are skilled workforce...within 5 years, be set up positively without a huge [debt].” (37:58 – 38:04)

• Student Debt, Accountability & Transparency:
  Describes improvements to FAFSA, giving applicants clearer cost/benefit projections.

  “This is how much the program costs...how much a degree in this will probably earn for you in the marketplace.” (41:07)

• Capping Student Loans & Encouraging Responsible Choices:
  Linda supports downward pressure on costs, with loan caps for graduate programs and better public information. (41:29 – 41:32)

8. The Role of AI in Education

• AI as a Tutor:
  Discussion of the Alpha School in Austin, TX—where AI provides personalized instruction, monitored by teachers, plus hands-on learning.

  “AI needs guardrails...but it can offer so much in so many ways...it provides an individual tutor sitting at that desk.” (44:45 – 45:11)

• Potential for Remediation and Acceleration:
  AI can help struggling students without slowing others; it enables differentiation and monitoring of progress. (45:07 – 45:43)

9. Parental Involvement and Community

• Call to Action for Parents:
  Both emphasize parental involvement as vital—attend board meetings, run for office, help with homework, and model engagement for children. (55:53 – 56:57)

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Notable Quotes & Timestamps

• On Her Job Mandate:

  “You’re going to be successful when you fire yourself.”
  – Linda McMahon, quoting the President (01:04)

• On Public Perceptions & Pushback:

  “I think there is some Trump derangement syndrome out there...how crazy are you to think that you can do away, if you will, with the department. Department of Education.”
  – Linda McMahon (29:06)

• On Real Teacher Impact:

  “The kids in the classroom shouldn’t know what party the teacher belongs to...both sides should be taught.”
  – Linda McMahon (32:37)

• On Promoting Trades:

  “It’s the fastest growing group of millionaires in the country—skilled workforce.”
  – Linda McMahon (37:58)

• On AI in Classrooms:

  “AI needs guardrails...but it can offer so much...what teacher wouldn’t say, ‘boy, if I could have a tutor standing next to each child.’”
  – Linda McMahon (44:45, 45:43)

• Parental Accountability:

  “Some of it’s on education, but a lot of it is parents...Sit your behinds down and do homework with them. Maybe you don’t watch Yellowstone that night…”
  – Tyrus (56:12)

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Important Segments & Timestamps

• Department of Ed. Purpose and Plan (00:11 – 01:44)
• Personal WWE Stories (02:00 – 06:18)
• Civic Engagement Initiatives (12:26 – 17:03)
• Dept. of Ed. Reform: Logistics & Cost-Saving Measures (22:06 – 28:01)
• Pushback, Political Realities (28:09 – 29:23)
• Teacher Training, Standards & Political Neutrality (31:46 – 34:21)
• Trade School Advocacy (36:27 – 38:04)
• Student Loan Transparency (39:46 – 41:32)
• AI in Classrooms (42:46 – 45:43)
• Parental Involvement (55:53 – 56:57)

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Memorable Moments

• Tyrus’ heartfelt story of how Linda’s small gesture buoyed him in a career low after his match was cut from WrestleMania (04:20).
• The duo’s mutual admiration for WWE’s behind-the-scenes compassion and honest leadership (06:18).
• Linda’s account of virtual Mount Everest’s cautionary tale in project-based learning at the Alpha School (43:18–44:39).
• Tyrus’ playful, persistent “presidential” prodding, with Linda firmly demurring:

  “No, no, no, no, no. That is definitely not on my future. No, in my future. Definitely not.” (07:49)

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Tone and Takeaways

The episode fuses nostalgia, humor, and serious policy debate—a rare blend. Tyrus’ respect and candor lets the audience see Linda McMahon’s strengths: curiosity, care for people, hands-on leadership, and a no-nonsense approach to governance. Audiences walk away understanding not just the “why” behind returning education to the states, but how it’s being done—and the practical, human heart that powers both Linda McMahon’s WWE and reform efforts.

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For listeners interested in education reform, WWE stories, or the inside mechanics of government transformation, this episode delivers both insight and entertainment—with enough honesty and levity to leave a lasting impact.

Transcript

[Betsy DeVos]

You downsize, we're going to save taxpayers about $4.5 million a year just relocating to a smaller building. And when he called and asked me to take on this job, he said, look, he said, you're going to be successful when you fire yourself. Unbelievably pathetic that only 30% of our high school seniors, 30 to 35% high school seniors and 8th graders are proficient at reading.

[Brodus Clay]

I am so excited that you're here today.

[Betsy DeVos]

Thank you so much for having me.

[Brodus Clay]

So, before we get into all the amazing things you're doing, because you were probably historic, and you've done this a lot with the first WrestleManias and all the amazing things you've done in your career, you're probably the first politician to ever take a job to say, I'm going to end this job. And I think that's one of the most amazing, selfless things I've ever seen. Because everyone says that until they get there, and they're like, well, now that I'm here and you got here, like, oh, we're going to make offices smaller. We're going to. And I. And give the power back to states and parents. And I just think that's an amazing thing.

[Betsy DeVos]

Well, thank you. It is clearly the president's executive order to do that. And when he called and asked me to take on this job, he said, look, he said, you're going to be successful when you fire yourself.

[Brodus Clay]

Yes.

[Betsy DeVos]

And I said, okay. And he said, you know, if everything works the way we want it to, you will be the last Secretary of Education. And I said, you know what? It's a challenge, but I think it is the right thing to do. I think it is right that states, which already have 90% of their own budget to fund their educational priorities, the government actually provides about 10% and then some competitive grants outside of that. But it's the right place for it to be. There's no one size fits all in education, and every state needs to do what's best for that state.

[Brodus Clay]

Now that we have that clear, I need to get into my personal reasons for having this interview with you. So WrestleMania was in New York, and

[Betsy DeVos]

it was WrestleMania 1.

[Brodus Clay]

No, no, I was renting. I was a small child begging my

[Betsy DeVos]

mom to WrestleMania 10.

[Brodus Clay]

I think it was a little later. It was 27 the last time we were in New York. Okay, Manhattan, the big thing. And I had a big tag match. Me and Tens. I were going to take on Cody Rhodes and Aaron and the Bella twins and the whole thing. And it was going to be My big moment, my WrestleMania moment. I had had the amazing thing where I danced the year before, told people to call their mamas, and then this was, like, the one, you know, and WrestleMania is your. When you get a victory at WrestleMania, it is your launch. And my match ended up getting cut, like, in the green screen, like, ready to go out.

[Betsy DeVos]

That was not my fault. No, no, no.

[Brodus Clay]

It wasn't anybody's fault. No, no, I'm not. No, no, that's not. This. I. It almost happened to the year before, and. And the boss and John Cena did the famous. Oh, I have to go to the bathroom. I'm gonna be gone for, like, eight, eight minutes. And I said, I can do it in six. And I got it. Following year, we're coming up. It's Taker and punk and Mr. McMahon and all. Everyone in there, they're looking at the clocks, and I see them. They're trying to cut the. They did everything they could, and I was. And the other guys got very emotional. And once I heard, brodus, we can't do it. I just walked out and I walked down the steps. And I remember Dusty was there. He gave me a hug, and I just. When I'm in a bad place, I'm not an affectionate person, just the way I was raised. So I kept walking. And he had to deal with Cody because Cody came right behind me. And we're, you know, and we're trying at the same time not look like our heart broke.

[Betsy DeVos]

Yeah.

[Brodus Clay]

So I just left. I walked out the doors. I'm still in gear. And I just walked and I walked and I walked forever to the point where I was at the buses, and I realized all my gear isn't the thing. And I just. Because it was just trying to get my emotions in check because you're still professional, and there's cameras everywhere. So the last thing you need to be seen is upset or frustrated in front of people because, you know, they'll. You know, I don't need to tell you. Anyways, I go. I eventually get myself together. I go back, and the security stops me, like, do you have a ticket? And I said, look at me. And the guy's like, brodus? I'm like, yeah. He's like, why are you all here? I said, long story. And so I go back in. Anyways, I had flown my family out. My son was young, I had. And his grandfather is Haku King Haku. So I flew everybody out for my Big Mania match, and then I had to go tell them it was canceled, and I was just in a really bad place the next morning. And then they said, hey, you're going to have the match on Raw. But, like, that's still Raw's amazing thing. But it's like I. You're telling someone in the super bowl that, hey, you get to play next year. It's not, you know, and I was down. I was really down. And I just remember staring at the ground because you have all like, this is it. My year is going to be messed up. I have to start all over. I don't know what I'm going to do, blah, blah, blah. And you walk by and you just stop. And I remember I made a tweet that night and I said, you don't know how much you love something till it's gone. Don't worry, I'll be back. 365 redemption stars today. Right? Right. And you came by me and you stopped and you said, brodus and. And she. You said, I read your tweet last night and thank you so much for loving this sport. And it's going to be okay. You're going to be fine. And it meant so much to me because one. It came from you and I, and you do this to people all the time, but I will always remember it. And it became something that has just become. When things get rough, I. It just go back to the. It's going to be all right. No. And it's something that. And I've had a lot of career changes because I didn't think I was. I didn't ever want to leave the wwe. I was thinking I was going to be there and eventually I'd be on the mic, whatever, but life happens and then you end up here. So I'm here to tell you that everything was okay.

[Betsy DeVos]

And obviously it was.

[Brodus Clay]

Yes, it was. But thank you. Because people don't do that, you know? And that's always something about you that was always special, being at the wwe, you. And never you. You hate to use the word, like team mom and things like that, but whenever you saw any of us, you would always, how are you? How's your family? You were always very non. Business, but business at the same time because you were always the boss, more so than anybody else, in my opinion.

[Betsy DeVos]

That's very nice for you to say, and I'm so happy that you remember that today.

[Brodus Clay]

That's such a nice thing that lives with me forever. Because it was just at a moment where you felt like the guy who was going to be in squash matches for the next year. And here is the, you know, the, the boss stops and out of. And again, it wasn't like I like, hey, or this, that, whatever. And it just was so genuine. And it's something that I, I think the world doesn't really know, especially with you and, and Stephanie. You guys really, really care about the people that work for you. And you go even long after they're done in the wwe, you know, and things like that. You guys have always been very supportive and positive and honest. And that's the one thing that I, my entire experience, Triple H, with all you guys, you guys were always, always knew where I stood. And that's something that's rare today. So to see when you started getting into politics, I was like, she's got my vote. Because I know that she cares about the little guy, you know, and that's something that not everybody does. And I think that's another reason why you and the President get along so well and work so well together. And another reason why you were one of the people. You had a completely different role the first time you were in the administration, and then you come back again. Not an easy thing to do, not an easy man to work for. But you have been so valuable in different phases of politics. I guess the big question I'm going to ask you, have you thought about the presidency? Because you have led, you built, but let's be honest, you've built businesses. You won't even let me get it out.

[Betsy DeVos]

No, no, no, no, no. That is definitely not on my future. No, in my future. Definitely not. I'm very, very happy with what I'm doing. I'm very happy to be, you know, if you think about this for me, you know, little girl from New Bern, North Carolina. Yes. I just grew up in a very humble middle class family and only child, great parents, just, you know, one of those wonderful childhood kind of things. But never dreamed ever that you'd be in the President's cabinet, let alone the opportunity to serve twice.

[Brodus Clay]

Yes.

[Betsy DeVos]

Pretty amazing. And there's still pitchable moments for me. I mean, I'm sitting in the Cabinet room and I'm listening to the President and Marco Rubio and they're doing briefings on Iran and all of this stuff. And I'm thinking, you know, you're really part of this real life history, and it's really a pinchable moment to look around and say, well, that's the Secretary of War, that's the secretary of this, that and the other. And I'm going to. And me. And so it's.

[Brodus Clay]

And you're not.

[Betsy DeVos]

It's incredible.

[Brodus Clay]

You're not just a me because you built a basically a mom and pops smaller wrestling company into a global phenomenon that not is just about in the squared rings movies opportunity business.

[Betsy DeVos]

Sure.

[Brodus Clay]

Like you. I mean that's in itself a pinchable historic moment.

[Betsy DeVos]

Well, it. It truly is. I mean Vince had such, you know, creative mind with such a creative genius and. And brought to the sport a genuine love of the industry and the sport and was just so good at all of that. And it just wouldn't be where it is today without that genius of creativity and sort of the vision of where to go.

[Brodus Clay]

I always referred to him as my Jim Henson because I couldn't wait to be one of his Muppets. And growing up my favorite wrestlers I loved Big John Stud. I liked all the bad guys. Mr. Wonderful. Paul Orndorff was my guy. I remember one of the worst cries of my childhood is when I knew his feet hit first. I knew it. You know Andre and Haku when they were my favorite tag champs. So I was. He had me from the very beginning. My entire childhood at some point obviously because I remember a million times my mother be like, you know, being a smart butt as she would put it. And a wrestler is no way to go through life, son. You know. And I was like. But it was just. When you look at what your family has brought and not just in terms of entertainment because the one thing you guys did and it's missed out on a lot and it's very relevant to what you're doing today is you still pushed. The good always comes out at the end. That was the beautiful thing about the sport of wrestling was that the good guys who did the right thing. It always. There was a message there.

[Betsy DeVos]

Sure.

[Brodus Clay]

And for young and you had to follow it. You had to follow it.

[Betsy DeVos]

And it wasn't always easy to get there.

[Brodus Clay]

No, no. And. And it was different than boxing and football. They had seasons guys your heroes were there every week. Rain, sleet or snow, it didn't matter. And that means that you had to make keep us in front of that tv.

[Betsy DeVos]

That was never my job.

[Brodus Clay]

No, but when you started. But when. What about when you got in front of. And I want to get away. I don't have you for get off wrestling. I promise.

[Betsy DeVos]

Well, it's obviously a very fun subject.

[Brodus Clay]

Yes, it is. Especially as someone who witnessed it. I did like though when you were. When you were. I was team. I was team mom. When you. When you. During the attitude era. It was amazing. And you Took some real bumps.

[Betsy DeVos]

I did. And it was incredible to me to know what you guys go through with on a very, very small, small scale, but to, you know, to have to fall down in the ring a time or two that, you know, it sort of.

[Brodus Clay]

I believe a stunner was in order

[Betsy DeVos]

at one point, and I was the world's worst stunner performer ever. And Stone Cold told me. He said, no, no, it's really easy. Just watch this. Do this. I was so afraid. And he grabbed me, and I fought the whole thing, and he finally wrestled me down.

[Brodus Clay]

And that's why it makes a. That's rule Arne Anderson. Never give it to him. Make it earn him. So I'm gonna stop because I could do this all day with you, because I'm one of your biggest fans, but

[Betsy DeVos]

thank you for that.

[Brodus Clay]

Some of the things that you have just really, really I'm excited about, and I heard a little bit when I was watching you. I got to see you on Faulkner earlier, so I was pretty excited. So you're gonna go to every school? Like, tell me about this.

[Betsy DeVos]

Not every school.

[Brodus Clay]

Every state. And every school in every state. Yeah. It would be your.

[Betsy DeVos]

Well, the. So I'm doing a couple of things.

[Brodus Clay]

Yes.

[Betsy DeVos]

One, I'm on a return education back to the States tour. Allow. Go to all 50 states.

[Brodus Clay]

Okay.

[Betsy DeVos]

And so I've been to about 33, 34 states so far. In addition to that, we're doing a History Rocks tour. And I won't be able to go to every one of those, but there will be one in each state. And I think we're up to now just about a little over 20 at this point, maybe. Maybe closer to 30. And so this is part of the President's 250th anniversary of the country. And this is really. The History Rocks is a civics presentation that we do in either the gymnasium or, you know, it's a program, and. Or. Or we'll do it in the auditorium of either a middle school or a high school. And it's. It's really fun. All the students come in. It's an assembly. And so. And we. We build a stage. And there it's. It's. It's all red, white, and blue. It's all very patriotic. Course, it starts with the Pledge of Allegiance and. And then the national anthem. And often in these schools, they'll have an ROTC program. And they come in, they present the colors, and it's just so inspirational. And so the whole program is about. It's about civics. Questions and history questions. And so all of the kids, when they come in, they're given a placard. On one side of the placard is the flag of the United States. On the other side is the flag of their state. And so there are two rounds, if you will. As part of this assembly, I go normally and have some opening comments and say hello to everyone. And I kind of get them all revved up, hopefully, and smiling and enjoying what they're doing. And then we come out and we do this contest. And then it's normally like, you know, a favorite teacher from the school or whatever who's asking the questions. And so they're asking questions like, this will sound silly, but who was the first president of the United States? And then, you know, it's a list comes up. And if it's this one, raise the American flag, or it's this guy showed you state flag. So then they get a little harder than their questions about Declaration of Independence and about the Constitution. And then there are some questions really pertinent to their state. And so it's just a big history lesson. So the kids love it when they're holding up their flags. I mean, they're jumping and they're really enthusiastic about the whole thing. Then the second part of it is kind of like Family Feud. So there are two teams selected by whatever teacher or principal, probably, I think about eight kids on each team. Again, questions about history or civics, whatever. Again the mix of federal questions and state questions. But this time, you know, they're collaborating with each other and whatever. Then there's a winner or loser team, you know, with that.

[Brodus Clay]

It's like the old school debate teams.

[Betsy DeVos]

Yeah. And then so we'll do the whole thing, and the audience is cheering and they're cheering for their team. And then they get T shirts and hats, you know, for the winter. And then I get to go out in between and throw T shirts out into the audience and just. It's such a good time. But the whole thing, civics based, nonpartisan. These are just history and civics questions. It's to raise awareness of history and how fun it can be to learn and to study. And the enthusiasm for the students is just great. Some schools go all out. One of them had the school band that was there, and they would play music in between.

[Brodus Clay]

That's awesome.

[Betsy DeVos]

So it's really a cool, fun thing.

[Brodus Clay]

This sounds a lot like your Be a Star program.

[Betsy DeVos]

It was a lot like the Be A Star program. And it was also the very first thing we did. You May not remember this, but we did smack down youn Vote.

[Brodus Clay]

Oh, yes. Yes, you did.

[Betsy DeVos]

We did Smackdown youn Vote. And smackdown came from the smackdown show, right? And Rock was the one who came out and said, we're gonna lay the smackdown on this election or whatever. Totally nonpartisan. It was all about register to vote.

[Brodus Clay]

Just want him to get out and vote.

[Betsy DeVos]

Just register to vote. And you know what prompted me to do that was a. We needed to register people to vote. But when I found out that, like, half of the WWE Superstars were not registered to vote, this then became a program for me to make sure that everybody registered. I said, I'm not trying to tell you how to vote. Just register.

[Brodus Clay]

Yeah, don't let Glenn find out about that.

[Betsy DeVos]

Be a citizen. Go do your thing and vote. And then we expanded that. We did a program with MTV for a while. We. We actually went to the Capitol, set up a ring outside on the lawn of the Capitol. And we had so many of the offices that would come out actually had Hillary Clinton, Nancy Pelosi on camera talking about registering to vote, because you used

[Brodus Clay]

to bring everybody to the table, and it was just about giving everybody opportunity to let their voices be heard.

[Betsy DeVos]

So it was way back then. Let's just make sure we're doing our civic duty and pay attention. I did. I did some interviews from the floor of the convention during Raw. They would cut in on Monday night. I do live from the convention floor interviewing, you know, some of the governors or whatever from. And so it was really a lot of fun just creating this interest. This is about your country. This is our history. Be involved.

[Brodus Clay]

That sounds so presidential. Sorry, I'm just. I'm just.

[Betsy DeVos]

I'm just happy to support.

[Brodus Clay]

Happy to support. Now, listen, as a history teacher, one of my. And one of the things that was always told to me, because I wasn't always a great student, but my history to Mr. Ray was like. He would say to me, you know, the answers are in the book. That's all you had to do. If you did your reading, you could pass the test today.

[Betsy DeVos]

You can go.

[Brodus Clay]

Well, now, the books might be a little off, but in terms of test questions and whatever information is on your test, chances are it's in your book. So that's the nice thing about history. And I. I love what you guys are doing. If you ever need a sub, ever, because I am a very. I don't. My resume speaks for itself, but I'm pretty good. I'm pretty good with the kids and the curating the questions. So that's kind of was my thing. So if there was any time you needed any, I'm there. I'm an independent contractor. I did not lose that little lesson that was taught to me in the wwe. So I can move things around if I need to. But another let me ask you this.

[Betsy DeVos]

I'm definitely going to make note of that.

[Brodus Clay]

Yes, please do. Because I, I was. I don't mind bragging. Probably some of my biggest moments besides being in the ring was the star program. I had a blast with that.

[C]

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[Betsy DeVos]

You know, we for. And you, you did it firsthand. And so for WWE to be able to go into some of those schools.

[Brodus Clay]

Yes.

[Betsy DeVos]

And to be a star program and not to be bullied and all of that was very. Because we went into the schools where there were issues.

[Brodus Clay]

Yes. You weren't afraid. You didn't hide from me. You didn't go to the private school. You went to some of the inner city schools and places where kids needed heroes or things to believe in or to see and to see people who have come from similar circumstance and become something better. And that's why I always. It didn't matter what was going on if, if, if Stephanie sent me, hey, I'm there. I'm there, you know, because all I had to do was if I was beat up, I could just lean on the podium, you know, so it wasn't that. But it was a great. But I love the fact that it was a great. It was such a good cause of giving back. And that's something that you have done, I guess, because of the. We live in this fake world of partisan where the media tells us how split it is. Do you see a big difference between. In all the states that you. That you've been to so far, between the blue and red. Do you see a huge difference in schools?

[Betsy DeVos]

In schools. Not in the really good schools. Because, you know, our education of our kids cannot be partisan. No, it just cannot be. But what I do see are the states now that are being innovative with their programs to teach their kids how to read. I mean, Tyrus, it is just unbelievable.

[Brodus Clay]

It's heartbreaking.

[Betsy DeVos]

Unbelievably pathetic that only 30% of our high school seniors, 30 to 35% high school seniors and 8th graders are proficient at reading. About the same for math in public schools across the country. And it hasn't changed.

[Brodus Clay]

And if you don't have it by second or third grade, third grade, you're cooked.

[Betsy DeVos]

I mean, up through the third grade

[Brodus Clay]

there are a few exceptions.

[Betsy DeVos]

Yeah, up through the third grade you're learning to read. After that you're reading to learn.

[Brodus Clay]

Yes.

[Betsy DeVos]

And if you cannot read proficiently by end of the third grade, and there are many who say you should be reading proficiently by end of the first grade, if you've had the science of reading, you can sound out words and all of that, then you are much more ahead of the game. But when I go to these schools and these kids can't read, it is just, it's unbelievably sad. But now states are the ones, this is not happening from Washington. States are the ones who are being innovative that they're bringing in these programs. The science of reading. Miracle, Mississippi took 10 years for the program to get put in place for the teachers to be taught how to teach. But they went from being last to almost now middle of the pack for their readers. Louisiana did the same thing. They started in 2019, took them a while. Now they are not so far from the top now and continuing each year to refine their program. So governors are competitive, state school superintendents are competitive. So my job, what I believe my job is because we don't control curriculum in Washington, the Department of Education and the reason it could go away is, is it is a pass through for money that is, you know, that comes from Congress, the appropriations come from Congress. There's Title 1 funding, there is title, you know, there's all the different titles for funding and idea money, which are children, you know, with special needs. It's all appropriated from Congress. We passed through and Department of Education was not stood up until 1980.

[Brodus Clay]

So it's just one less strainer government

[Betsy DeVos]

funding, less regulation, less strings attached to the money, less overhead, bureaucracy. And so what we're doing now, according to the President's executive order of returning it to the states and moving things out of the Department of Education. I've already started doing that by signing interagency agreements like with the Department of Labor. We did one that was just wonderful for our adult education programs to move over there. Last week we announced that the school loans, the student loan program, we would co administer the student loan program with the Department of Treasury. Now here's a stat will blow your mind if you haven't read it already. The almost $1.7 trillion in student loan debt is managed by the Education Department. I therefore run the fifth largest bank in the country.

[Brodus Clay]

Wow.

[Betsy DeVos]

Out of education. And I'm not a banker. Does that make any sense to you?

[Brodus Clay]

No, it doesn't. Well, it does if you're going to if for. And again, we've seen it with do's, we've seen it with the misappropriation of spending. It just seems like we have a lot of departments of our government that really shouldn't have their hand in the tilt.

[Betsy DeVos]

Sure. And I'll give you another one that we just signed recently is one to take one, what's called section 117 of the higher Education act. And that is that universities, colleges and universities are by law required to report a foreign funding that comes into their universities. And they've just not been doing it and they've not been held accountable to it. So we totally redid at the Department of Education, the reporting portal. So now it is very easy to put this money up and it's transparent. You could go on the portal and see where does this university get foreign money? Where did it come from? Who wrote the check? And we now have relocated and are co administering that program out of the Department of State because they can see the foreign actors that are putting money into these colleges and universities. We're not the ones to make that call that these are the bad guys.

[Brodus Clay]

Right.

[Betsy DeVos]

But the Department of State can look at that and say, huh, let's follow this trail because it could impact our security, our economy, everything.

[Brodus Clay]

Curriculum.

[Betsy DeVos]

Yeah. So we're making these changes that make sense. Moving these programs out of the Department of Education, co administering them for a while with different agencies, moving some of our experts there to help supervise the programs because. And the money still coming out of the Department of Education budget. And I have said to Congress, because ultimately Congress will have to vote to shut down the Department of Education and remove it and not to have a secretary. So I've said this is a proof of concept. Let me show you it works.

[Brodus Clay]

Right.

[Betsy DeVos]

We'll do this under the authority that I have under the Economy act to do this. And it's done all the time in government. Government signs. It's like having a contract with a different agency to accomplish something that maybe you can't do as well in your agency. So you sign these interagency agreements, you co administer it and manage it and then you can. We'll have to decide if Congress will vote then to make it to be a permanent relocation. But I've said, let me prove it. You know, I'm not going to, I'm going to come back to you when

[Brodus Clay]

I say, here's this and this, this.

[Betsy DeVos]

I'm going to show you that this works. And then what is your objection? It's been more cost effective, is being handled properly. Like for instance, at the Department of Labor in order to get grant money out the door. There's grants that are awarded by the Department of Education. Department of labor has a much more sophisticated technology system. Technology system at the Department of Education does not talk to any of the other agencies. Department of labor does. So it's already better. And so when I bring these things to Congress, when I first talk to them about co administering the student loan program, eyes rolled, people going, oh my God, we can't. But then a lot of them came on board and said, well, this really does make sense. And I said, look, this would be like a three pronged process to start from first collecting money for those who are repaying their loans and then we'll go to the next step and then we'll go to the next step. And so finally, you know, the Department of Treasury, which collects a whole bunch of money through the IRS anyway.

[Brodus Clay]

Right.

[Betsy DeVos]

And they use outside contractors to do that. And it just makes an abundant amount of sense. So eventually, I will say we have now, I believe, successfully co administered these programs and other agencies. I think you can see they can reside here, be more effective and we can, we cannot have to be doing what we're doing. Department of Education. So then last Friday, I think it was last Thursday, Friday, we also announced, I'm only occupying half of the building that we're in right now. So we're relocating to a smaller building, downsize. So we're going to save taxpayers about four and a half million dollars a year just relocating to a smaller building. I don't know. It makes a whole bunch of sense.

[Brodus Clay]

Make a lot of it. I don't see the pushback, I guess. And you're not, you're not just saying, hey, we're doing this. You're like, I'm going to show you how we're doing it.

[Betsy DeVos]

Yeah.

[Brodus Clay]

And compare it to how you've been doing it. It's if it's better, it should be a landslide. It should be. It should be. But how much? Obviously, whenever the camera's on, the pushback is going to, it's theatrics. They got to cut their Promo, whatever. Behind the scenes, are you seeing the same amount of pushback from the left or even some of the more rhino y right. I guess the best way to put it.

[Betsy DeVos]

So here's the thing. It is we are in the world of politics.

[Brodus Clay]

Yes.

[Betsy DeVos]

Where people are elected and all elections are local. So if district A in your state really doesn't think that this is a good program and they're giving you a lot of pushback, they'll talk to me about it. How do they talk to their constituents about it? How do we show them this is really good for them?

[Brodus Clay]

So at least you're getting that. You are getting some feedback. You're not just getting that. Nope. You work for the Orange Dragon. Nope. Not gonna do it.

[Betsy DeVos]

I think there is some Trump derangement syndrome out there. They just have to push back automatically about it. And how crazy are you to think that you can do away if you will with the department. Department of Education.

[Brodus Clay]

And then you hit him. It's only been around since 1980.

[Betsy DeVos]

1980. And it's so. And before that the Title 1 funding was there. Special needs funding was there. All of that was in place. And it managed. Managed to get done.

[Brodus Clay]

Let me ask you a question. And you might not know this one or whatever, but when I look at for me to become a teacher, I thought. And when I was in college and I went to. I was a little bit of a bad boy. I got. I ended up having to ended up at a independent in the middle of Nebraska. It was a teacher School, Division 1, Blue Chip, all American, blah blah blah. But a little bit of a knucklehead. And I found a place where I could stay eligible because my plan was the NFL. It was not anything else. And I was going to school as a thing. Like I said, it took a long time to figure this thing out. And my school, University Nebraska at Kearney is a famous teaching school. And it's famous for the movie Terms of Endearment. That's what it's. It was. That campus was filmed on that movie. I argue. Any man watch that and not cry when she's talking to those boys? Because I cried and I own it. But it's now famous for Tyrus in terms of Redeemer. But the teaching program was tough. And to get your PTE 100 and 203. There was tough tests and exams and you had to pass like 70%. I'm looking at the teaching stuff now and I'm not seeing these credentials. It looks like they have lowered the standards for what it is to be a teacher today is that I think it needs to go back to being stringent and maybe it's a better pay increase. And again, these are a lot of what have yous and whatnot. But in looking at. Because one of the things that I look back and I was in education for a long time, none of my kids knew what I did. When I got off the clock and I looked back, I never knew anything. I didn't know how my teachers voted, what religion they were. Like, it was very. It was. Every once in a while the husband or the wife would show up at like a dance or something. It would be like, who is that, Mr. Vero? That's my wife. And be like, she's pretty. Why would she be married? You know, like kids stuff. You just. And now it seems to where that line is so blurred. How do you think we can get back to that? Is it making. Going back to when you actually had to earn the right to be a teacher? And again, I'm not. I'm just saying, I've noticed that because I looked at. In between wrestling stuff before I got here, substitute teaching, and I was like, well, what state test do I have to take? And everyone was like, no. And I was like, wait, what? What?

[Betsy DeVos]

Like, you can't. Can't even go in and do substitute teaching. Some schools, you know, want to hire experts in the field. Like they want to hire an engineer to come in and teach math. Maybe that engineer, you know, got laid off and has all of these skills and understands everything that's going through. Many states, you cannot do that. You have to go through their whole education program and get licensed. I think there are states that are looking now to say, hey, you know what? This individual teacher could bring so much to the table. And so there, There are others that are looking at it. Look, I think teaching is the most noble profession in our country. These are the people that are with our kids, K through 12, especially all of those formative years that teachers have a real opportunity. But they, you know, the kids in the classroom shouldn't know what party no, you know, the teacher belongs to or whatever, because both sides should be taught. I remember, I still remember this. In 10th grade I had a civics class. And. And I remember, you know, to. To this day that it was. I'll date myself, though. You can look it up. But any rate, this was when Nixon and Kennedy, you know, were running against each other. And so Mr. Barber was my teacher, and he said, who do you hope wins the election? And I said, Well, I really do hope, you know, that Mr. Nixon wins the election and here's why. And he said, okay, so we're going to have a debate in class, but you're going to have to debate for Kennedy.

[Brodus Clay]

My teacher did the same thing and then someone else.

[Betsy DeVos]

And so I had to debate the opposite side. And then the class voted know as to, as to which, you know which one. And I thought that's the way you ought to teach.

[Brodus Clay]

Yes. There's no Mr. Ray, my history teacher and I'm, I don't mind dating myself. He, he did the same thing. And I just remember it makes you think and it took all of the, the BS out of it. Of course, it's not like it is now where, you know, it's just non. 24 hours. We didn't. 24 hours spewing, spewing, spewing. Yeah, but it was one of those things where it also wasn't personal. You didn't take it personal. I have a feeling now if I walked into a history class and I did the same thing, I might get back, well, my parents are Democrats and I can't possibly speak. You know, and you're like, that's not the lesson.

[Betsy DeVos]

It's interesting you mentioned this, this History Rocks tour that I talked about. There have been four states that found out they were coming. And parents called and told the school they didn't want us to come because they didn't want partisan politics. And I said, they clearly have no idea what this is about.

[Brodus Clay]

None.

[Betsy DeVos]

But the fact that I'm the Secretary of Education and the Trump administration, they've called to say we don't want that in our school. And I'm thinking, well, just find out about it first.

[Brodus Clay]

Yeah, at least educate. But that's the derangement. But it's okay for the teacher to decide to come into school one day and start talking about why you dye your hair blue or whatever your issues are, that's fine. But coming in to one just to get eyes on the school. As a parent, I would like to have the board, the government educated to see like, hey, what's going on? How the cafeterias, how the function, the building looks good. Little things that you would just notice when you're there and then at the same time you're doing history, it's not, hey, it's MAGA hour. You know, that's the one thing. And it bothers me so much because when it comes to education, politics never should have been allowed in.

[Betsy DeVos]

No, definitely not. And you know, It's K through 12 is one thing. Then when you get to colleges and universities, it's a whole different thing.

[Brodus Clay]

Yeah, I'm a trade school guy now. I'm pushing trade school, you know.

[Betsy DeVos]

Oh, I. I ran for the Senate in Connecticut in 2019 and again and 1112. And I talked about then trade schools, that we had a shortage of electricians and H Vac and all that. That was then. And we've not closed that gap. It's only gotten. It's only gotten wider and there's more need now. Do you know that for every five retirees from our skilled workforce, only two come in? And by 2030, if I have the number right, and I'd like to, you know, double check that, but I believe the number is 2030. If we stay on the course we're on right now, we'd be a billion short of workers that we would need. And with the president's program to bring manufacturing back to the country doing all of this, we really have to have those skilled workers, which is why I'm really pleased to see what community colleges are doing now in working with high schools. You know, high schools did away with shop.

[Brodus Clay]

Yeah. We need wood shop, mechanic shop, driver's education. I mean, even more physical education, you know.

[Betsy DeVos]

Oh, absolutely. But what these community colleges are doing now, in conjunction now, you. The students can take courses at the community college and get credit for them when they graduate from high school. They not only have a diploma, but they have a certificate in that trade skill, and it has cost them nothing.

[Brodus Clay]

High school. I had an interview with Lawrence Taylor, and his grandson came and sat with us, and his grandson is getting ready to go to North Carolina, which was where Lawrence Taylor.

[Betsy DeVos]

I have a grandson there.

[Brodus Clay]

Yep. And he talked about. And he wasn't supposed to be in the interview. I just said hi to him. But I said, hey. And he was. And I said, hey, what do you do when you're not playing ball? And he says, well, I'm an electrician. I was like, I'm sorry. Get a chair, please. Have a seat. Your grandson is going into college, and he already has a license to be an electrician. And he's like, yes. He wanted to have a backup plan. And I'm like, with all due respect, sir, if you scoot just a little bit, because we just don't talk about the young people who are taking these. And this here's the thing. He has no student debt.

[Betsy DeVos]

Yeah.

[Brodus Clay]

He has no loan to pay back, you know, and which is. He will. You know, he's a. Scott. I don't I forgot to ask if I'm assuming he was Scott. Maybe he wasn't. But either way, he still has a great start in life.

[Betsy DeVos]

Yeah.

[Brodus Clay]

And Glenn Jacobs, he in Knox. He's pushing all kinds of trade school stuff. Every time I see him, I, I, I, that's the first thing that he brings up. So it's like trade schools are getting sexy again.

[Betsy DeVos]

I guess it's the fastest growing group of millionaires in the country. Or a skilled workforce, because you can

[Brodus Clay]

be your own if you do the time. A plumber is his own boss, electrician is his own boss, and, you know, construction. All these, all these jobs to where you can literally within 5 years be set up positively without a huge or worse, having a degree that there is no use of. Like, where are you going to go with your gender studies degree?

[Betsy DeVos]

That's a big bon of contention with me.

[Brodus Clay]

I mean, it's, I, I, I, I can't talk too much trash because I probably, if it would have been offered to me because I was trying to play ball, I probably would have been like, yeah, yeah, basket weaving and genders. Yeah, I'll get a master's in that. How long is that gonna take? What, seven, eight minutes? You know, it's like, it was like we had a class called Math Logic. It was like 2 plus 2 is 4 unless 2 is really 3. Which was great for a guy like me who was really good at BSING at times. So I was like, oh, I always gonna pass a test. But that was me avoiding having to take trigonometry. You know, they had another elective op. But you kind of knew when you were taking those classes, like, I'm, I'm not gonna, this is just filling up. I'm not, this isn't anything. And then suddenly those classes became important. Like, oh, I have a degree in gender studies. There's only two. Like, you know, and so it's just that time. But how much did that degree cost you? Oh, $470,000. Oh, and I'm not going to pay it back because the previous administration said I don't have to. So now we're teaching us like, your word doesn't mean anything. Your signature doesn't mean anything. Your commitment doesn't anything. And then when, if you do want to work for something and you pay a ton of money for it, there's nothing on the end of it. And those, I think, were more damaging than anything else. Was that just that mindset to where you're not responsible for your own actions?

[Betsy DeVos]

Well, you're exactly right. And just, you know, I can just coast through. And one of the things that I'm really proud of that we've done at the Department of Education is to completely revamp the broken student loan application, which is called fafsa. And the Biden administration just totally broke it. But every student that is applying for federal loan has to fill out the FAFSA form. In fact, some high schools require it. Even if you're not going to get student loan, there's a lot of information. You get a lot of information about schools with it. So we totally redid it. And Congress had said you must have it up and running by October of last year. Well, we had it up and running. In advance of that, I actually went to a couple of the beta tests for it to see how it worked. Parents were saying, wow, this is only taking 30 to 35 minutes, whereas it used to take hours or sometimes a couple of days. And you had to wait for information to come. We have done that. But part of what is revamped now that just went into effect, I think, last December, is a new section that actually says, this is how much it costs for this program. You've asked that your grades be sent to these colleges. This is how much the program costs. This is how much a degree in this will probably earn for you in the marketplace.

[Brodus Clay]

So you're seeing it. You're laying it out to decide whether they're going to play it out or not. Here's what I'm looking at.

[Betsy DeVos]

Good for parents and good for kids, and we're not advocating you go anywhere else, but it's just saying, here's a real life, here's the facts, here's a real life thing, and I think it's making a difference. The other thing we want to do is to start creating downward pressure on colleges and universities to start lowering their costs.

[Brodus Clay]

Right. Because college is ridiculously expensive.

[Betsy DeVos]

So we've had some caps now on student loans. Just. It'll just be going into effect and for graduate programs. And that's. And that's really going to make a difference, I think.

[Brodus Clay]

Now, I interviewed a lady in Texas, and I know you got to go soon, but they were doing stuff with AI in the classroom where the AI is the teacher. And then they had the teacher, the human teachers on the side. I helped. I think I wasn't totally. I'm not totally against it in terms of things like, especially with reading and math, because it. You need to learn it, and then AI giving you the exact information. I think that is Perfect. In terms of when you get into art and things like that, what you'd like to see back in the classroom, P.E. things like that, back in the band and all that acting drama, like all that stuff. I think that is a lane for AI that I would have a hard time arguing, I think based on because it's just giving the information. So I'm very supportive of that in terms of core classes, given the fact that we've seen such of the. Unfortunately, a lot of the teachers we're seeing is that their emotional stuff and their things are becoming bigger in the classroom than necessarily than the curriculum or the lesson plan. Are you, are you for. Are you still looking into that? Are you.

[Betsy DeVos]

No, I've been. Well, obviously continuing to get information. I don't know what person you were talking to in Texas, but I went to the Alpha School, which is.

[Brodus Clay]

Yes, it was the Alpha School, which

[Betsy DeVos]

is in Austin, Texas with Mackenzie Price.

[Brodus Clay]

Yes, that's who it was.

[Betsy DeVos]

And spent half a day there. And so there was. And learned about their program. The first two hours all the kids are on AI and they're going through their lesson studies. And yes, you always have a teacher that's monitoring, etc. The kids learn, they're learning very, very quickly the basics.

[Brodus Clay]

Right.

[Betsy DeVos]

The rest of the school day then is spent on practical applications of that knowledge. As a matter of fact, there was a little 10 year old boy was my guide and he was 10 going on 20. But he was taking. I said, so what's your favorite thing you've learned? What you like to do? He said, oh. He said, we climbed Mount Everest. I said, well, did you really climb Mount Everest? And he goes, of course not. But, but, but we virtually climbed Mount Everest. So they had to take all of their math that they learned and everything. They had to plan for their base camp, what tools they were going to need, what the climate changes were going up the mountain. They had to plan for all of that. So it was utilizing not only environmental and science, but mathematics to figure out how many feet of rope they would need and all of that stuff. So these kids then were all working on this project to get ready to climb Mount Everest. And so I asked him, I said, did everybody make it to the top? He said, well, not everybody. He said, one girl died. I said, wait, what? One girl died? He said, yeah. He said, we, we miscalculated that we needed to have doctors in each camp. He said, and unfortunately she got frostbite. The doctor told her to go in the tent and stay and not come out, but he had to go to the next base camp. So she went outside of the tent because she wanted to do stuff, and she died. And I go, so they're teaching life lessons.

[Brodus Clay]

Yes.

[Betsy DeVos]

And all of that wrapped into this and this school. I was so impressed by it. And now she's branching out around the country.

[Brodus Clay]

She was here and we were talking

[Betsy DeVos]

about it a lot. I think AI needs guardrails. Yes, clearly needs guardrails. But it can offer so much in so many ways, provided it operates within the guardrails.

[Brodus Clay]

Do you think when it comes to the basics, AI might be the answer to getting our kids caught up who are behind in terms of reading?

[Betsy DeVos]

Well, I think the fact that it provides an individual tutor, you know, sitting at that.

[Brodus Clay]

Yes.

[Betsy DeVos]

Sitting at that desk, and that algorithm is actually understanding whether or not this child is progressing at the right rate. If not, they go back, they review material, they present it in a different way, cover that material very quickly so the kid doesn't get left behind. I think that is really very, very helpful to having kids progress. Then those that are really sharp catching onto everything, they're just progressing quicker, quicker, quicker. And so it's like that individual attention. And what teacher wouldn't say, boy, if I could have a tutor standing next to each child.

[Brodus Clay]

Exactly.

[Betsy DeVos]

In the classroom, they would all learn quicker.

[Brodus Clay]

When I was teaching, I had 20 boys in the classroom, and maybe I could get to five of them within that hour who were struggling.

[Betsy DeVos]

Sure. And then what happens to the rest of the students?

[Brodus Clay]

Right. And then you have the kids who are just kind of baselining. They're not good, they're not bad, but they're, you know, they're going to get a 70. So you're. You're kind of. And you're dealing with the guy in the front. And a lot of times you're dealing with a lot of behavior issues, too. So you get caught up in a lot of stuff. And then the general census of the classroom. You know what? I didn't even need this. The general consensus of the classroom was like, oh, we gotta, you know, and the learning environment stops. I know the smaller classes do a lot better, even with some of the more severe behaviors. And I had to deal with a lot of behaviors. But I found the smaller. The classes did a lot better. And I. And if I had each person had a specific someone that could. Because every child learns differently.

[Betsy DeVos]

Sure.

[Brodus Clay]

So to have. Maybe you need to go a little faster with this one. Like, and with an AI or with a tutor, you can do those things. The AI thing is it's, you have now data to look and you can continue to carry on with him and you can see his progress.

[Betsy DeVos]

Absolutely.

[Brodus Clay]

So I think that part of it is great. But yeah, she was, I was very impressed with a lot of the stuff.

[Betsy DeVos]

Yeah. Her thought process and everything that she's done, just pretty amazing now before, like,

[Brodus Clay]

let me get a prediction. When are you gonna fire yourself? Are you hoping to fire yourself in the end? Do you have, do you have a window? Are you thinking about it?

[Betsy DeVos]

Well, you know, as I said before, you know, we are very systematically, I think, and very prudently moving, not moving, co administering programs with different agencies, selecting them, figuring out, you know, the workload, what people go over and work with them. So it really acts kind of like a merger to start with.

[Brodus Clay]

Right. Ok. And that's a better word. It's a merger.

[Betsy DeVos]

So we're training, we're training people on both sides. The experts from ED are working with the folks, you know, in the other agencies for this collaborative effort. So it's going to take a while. And I have, I have absolutely assured members of Congress. I said, look, this is not a, it's got to be done by Thursday.

[Brodus Clay]

Right.

[Betsy DeVos]

And I've said to the president, I can't flick the switch and walk out the door and turn the lights out. This is a project, it is a process to get it done. So it is. I can say that we are moving as fast as I think is prudently responsible for us to do so.

[Brodus Clay]

Just to be clear, there wasn't a gotcha question. The term firing sounds sexy and fun, but it's basically a merger of streamlining the Department of Education into line where everything, where the states have and parents basically have more control of what's going on.

[Betsy DeVos]

Oh, absolutely. Along with their schools and part of that process. And we've already done it. In fact, the state of Iowa was the first state to opt to take a waiver of 2 or 3 of their grant programs and put them. We did a block grant with them. We signed the waiver for them so that the governor and Governor Reynolds has been wonderful. She's been very innovative in education with her states and we've seen her scores really coming up. We gave them a block grant for, for three or four of their programs and allowed the governor to spend that money as she saw fit. She knows that more money ought to be spent over here. Some of that money could be spent over here if we were doing each of those individual block grants. And there were four of them. She Might not have the money that

[Brodus Clay]

she needs, doesn't communicate, she wouldn't have

[Betsy DeVos]

the ability to move it. So more, we're offering that to more and more states. So we'd like to see more and more governors come on board to take advantage of those programs. And one other program that I wish, and I don't understand why governors don't opt in immediately on this. And only, only one Democratic governor has come in so far and that's Governor Polis from Colorado and he has. Excuse me, this program is part of the Working Families Tax Cuts act or the big beautiful bill.

[Brodus Clay]

Yes.

[Betsy DeVos]

And this is the education Freedom tax cut. And that is, it is actually the first universal school choice program that the president's been able to enact. But it had to have guardrails around it because Congress wouldn't have voted for it otherwise. But each state the governor can opt into this program and what it does is allow scholarship granting organizations or C3s in those states to be set up or utilize ones that are already there. And individuals can donate up to seventeen hundred dollars. I'm sorry, individuals can donate as much as they want into any of these scholarship granting organizations, but they can get a seventeen hundred dollar tax credit, dollar for dollar federal tax credit on their tax return. And these scholarship organizations can then say to a parent, maybe kids trapped in a failing school, you have the right, we can provide you with a scholarship to move your child to another school. Give be a public school, it could be a private school or stay in that school. Can help you with uniforms, can help you with. If you have a child with special needs to get more equipment or to more tutoring for that child with special needs. You can get private tutoring services for your child. So many opportunities to help your child succeed. But governors aren't opting in.

[Brodus Clay]

When I was a kid I, I took tests and I ended up being accepted into magnet schools. So I was taking a two hour bus drive to ironically go to Bret Hart elementary in Van Nuys, Cal. Who knew? Not the same guy, but. And I would because I scored really high in science and biology and stuff. And so that's the school that I went to. I went to a specific school for that.

[Betsy DeVos]

Were you part of a lottery to get into that?

[Brodus Clay]

No, I just took a test and then they were like he took a test and he's in. Did I like the two hour bus ride? Not particularly, but I like the fact that I have a really good mind on. I didn't use it because of sports and wrestling took over but I Always have it. And my kids are the first ones. They think that I'm David Attenborough around the house, so it's kind of nice.

[Betsy DeVos]

But the fact that a governor won't opt in for this program, that's crazy. And I'm really wondering if they don't understand. I mean, the governor of Kentucky, who I know has been concerned about education, said no. He said, I'm really. I want to protect public schools in my state

[Brodus Clay]

from help.

[Betsy DeVos]

So the theory is that it would take money away from public schools. No, no, no. This is private money donated into the state. It is adding to the pot of education dollars. Not taking away anything from a public school, actually adding to what they could offer for students in these schools. And so. But teachers unions are clearly pushing back, you know, against it somehow.

[Brodus Clay]

Yeah. As. As a. Like I said, as a former teacher, I was never much of a fan of the. The union. I feel like they protect the wrong people.

[Betsy DeVos]

And I.

[Brodus Clay]

That's just my personal opinion.

[Betsy DeVos]

I think when they started, it was a place.

[Brodus Clay]

Yes.

[Betsy DeVos]

For unions. And I think lobbying for teachers to get better pay is a fun. I think teachers should be incredibly well paid. I think they should be paid for performance. I think they should be bonused. If their students are performing well, I think they should be bonused. So there's a lot to do for our teachers, I think.

[Brodus Clay]

Yeah. And like I said, you have a very interesting way of doing things. You just present the facts.

[Betsy DeVos]

Incredible how that can work.

[Brodus Clay]

Yeah. I'm continually told on television I'm brilliant. And they're like, well, because you just. Common sense. I'm like, that's not really a compliment. Common sense is like, don't touch fire. It's hot.

[Betsy DeVos]

Sure. But it ain't so common.

[Brodus Clay]

But it's not common. So I will keep being common because it's unique these days. And you are a unique, wonderful, wonderful. And one of my favorite bosses that I ever got to work with.

[Betsy DeVos]

Thank you for that.

[Brodus Clay]

And. And thank you so much. And again, I'm just saying. Not even a chance. Not even.

[Betsy DeVos]

Not even a chance. No.

[Brodus Clay]

Okay.

[Betsy DeVos]

No, I'm happy to serve, you know.

[Brodus Clay]

No, not once you're done with. I'm just. What are you gonna do after you fix this? What's next for you? Because you just can't. I mean, I know you got grandchildren and all that stuff, but you're like a super grandma, you know? Like, you always gotta fix something or build something.

[Betsy DeVos]

Well, we'll, you know, we'll see what the future holds.

[Brodus Clay]

I'll take that. Okay, that's. I'll take that. I will take what? The features. Because no, I. I heard. I'm a horse, dad. Now, my daughter, she jumps. We in Wellington. She does the jump.

[Betsy DeVos]

I have a granddaughter who's jumping, and I hold my breath.

[Brodus Clay]

You. You die a little bit every time.

[Betsy DeVos]

Oh, just hold my breath. That horse is, you know, approaching the jump, and it's like it goes up and I go, do you.

[Brodus Clay]

Do you jump with them?

[Betsy DeVos]

Yeah. I'm clearly jumping.

[Brodus Clay]

I'm. To the past now, where my. My daughter's done. She's already up to a meter. She was at a meter 10. And we're like, we're gonna slow down, but she's qualified for all the stuff. So. So now I'm the. When I. I do the arms cross now, and I just do the. And then if she hits a pole, I have to. And it's, you know, the pole that polls. You know, they. They. Because it always happens. If it's the first one, you're like, you're. You're upset because you're like. But when it's on the last one, you die.

[Betsy DeVos]

It's. It's like a perfect. Like a perfect ride.

[Brodus Clay]

Boom. And you're like.

[Betsy DeVos]

Or you can just nick the pole. All you have to do is just. Yeah.

[Brodus Clay]

And then somebody will actually hit it and it'll like. I have. Between my son's travel baseball, my. My daughter's horse jumping, and my other daughter plays the bassoon and she plays soccer. So all my kids are. So I gotta keep. I can't retire.

[Betsy DeVos]

You're a travel dad?

[Brodus Clay]

Yeah, I'm a travel dad. I'm working it, but good for you. Yes.

[Betsy DeVos]

Because not all parents are involved. And the one thing I say to parents everywhere I go, when they'll say, you know, what can we do? I say, be involved. Go to school board meetings. Run for the school board. Make sure you know what your children are doing. Talk to their teachers. Not just for the parent teacher conference. Know what your children are doing.

[Brodus Clay]

Also sit your behinds down and do homework with them. Maybe you don't watch Yellowstone that night or check on your Facebook. Like, we. Some of it's on education, but a lot of it is parents. And I think. And this is a guy who lives in a hotel room a lot, travels a lot. You still need to make time for education. And there's no excuses. FaceTime, go over assignments. I do it all the time. So parents also need to get back involved in the. Well, the community. I mean, I used to. If I had a bad report card. Everybody in my neighborhood knew it. Before I even got to the house, Ms. Pyzus was on the corner going, no baked goods for you this weekend. I saw that D. You know, and I'm like, I haven't even had time to make up the lie to try to convince my mom that I just forgot homework. So. And I think we need to get back to that.

[Betsy DeVos]

Yeah.

[Brodus Clay]

You know, and, and, and I think you are helping us get there.

[Betsy DeVos]

Thank you. I appreciate that.

[Brodus Clay]

And thank you. This is, like I said, this. I, I have been excited about this.

[Betsy DeVos]

Fun.

[Brodus Clay]

Yes, it has. It has. And I know. I was like, like, you only have her 20 minutes. I'm like, yeah, right. But thank you so much. I know you have a billion things to do today, but thank you. But thank you for taking time, for having me.

[Betsy DeVos]

Thank you for you know, loving an industry that, that I love, you know, very, very much. And is.

[Brodus Clay]

Was such a. Oh, it's the greatest sport in the world.

[Betsy DeVos]

Such a big part of my life and, and, and continuing on and, and I love. And I love watching you on Gutfeld.

[Brodus Clay]

Well, thank you. Thank you. And that's just the art of the promo. And I keep sneaking more of us on there. I've had taker Jericho. Well, Glenn was born. Kane was born for this. Like, he's like, he's another one. I'm like, after governor maybe, you know, he went to.

[Betsy DeVos]

He went to one of my school visits in Tennessee. And so I'm here and you know, he's up here and we're talking.

[Brodus Clay]

Yeah.

[Betsy DeVos]

And of course, I did a little bit with him.

[Brodus Clay]

Yes.

[Betsy DeVos]

And which he, you know.

[Brodus Clay]

Yes.

[Betsy DeVos]

He gave me the little.

[Brodus Clay]

Upset him over that. Yeah.

[Betsy DeVos]

So I looked up at him, you know, I looked up at him and I said, siglan, you're not going to give me pile driver today, are you? And he said, no, definitely not. No, ma'. Am.

[Brodus Clay]

No, ma'. Am. Because we're two wrestlers in a truck now. That's our, that's our political campaign. But you have, like I said, wherever. You have just. I don't think. And I think maybe when people see this, to see how sweet and funny and down to earth you are, that you. That people would not realize that you are this monster cfo, CEO, billionaires, world builder. And you're just, you're just. And I think that's was why you were always my favorite, because it didn't matter what was going on. You always be like, hey, how are you? And it wasn't fake. You actually cared about the people that work for you, and I'm a living testament to that.

[Betsy DeVos]

Well, I appreciate that.

[Brodus Clay]

Thank you so much.

[Betsy DeVos]

And much continued success for you and continue being such a good dad.

[Brodus Clay]

Oh, thank you. Thank you.

[Betsy DeVos]

Great. Thank you.

[Brodus Clay]

Thank you. It's been absolutely. Thank you so much.