Michael Malice on Soviet Communism, Anarchism, and Modern Media Control | Planet Tyrus

Summary

Podcast Summary: Planet Tyrus – Michael Malice on Soviet Communism, Anarchism, and Modern Media Control | July 30, 2026

Episode Overview

In this high-energy, wide-ranging episode of Planet Tyrus, host Tyrus (comedian, Fox News contributor, and former pro wrestler) welcomes author and political commentator Michael Malice. The conversation seamlessly moves from wrestling nostalgia and locker room camaraderie, to hard-hitting explorations of Soviet totalitarianism, American cultural shifts, the psychology of power, and the role of humor as social currency. Malice draws on his unique background—born in the Soviet Union, Brooklyn-raised, anarchist thinker—to challenge American assumptions about freedom, evil, and the media’s influence. Packed with sharp humor and poignant insights, the episode blends stories, politics, and philosophy with both gravity and wit.

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Main Discussion Themes & Key Insights

1. Humor, Friendship, and the Locker Room Ethos

Tyrus and Malice swap stories on humor as a tool for camaraderie and social navigation, highlighting culture in sports versus entertainment.

• Joking and taking jokes is central to male bonding in sports (02:00).
• American college environments create hypersensitivity to racial humor—unlike poorer or multicultural communities, where humor is seen as free and essential (04:04, 04:14).
• Malice on condescension: “You have this condescension toward black people, and they're like, you're seeing me like this thing instead of a person. You're scared to talk to me like a human being. This isn't much better because I know you're scared of me.” (04:29)

2. Wrestling—Entertainment, Myth, and Life Lessons

Stories from Tyrus’ wrestling career reveal lessons about resilience, entertainment’s “magic,” and adapting to new roles in the industry.

• Wrestling as a ‘protected magic’—the importance of keeping up the illusion and distinct personas (18:59).
• Managing setbacks: Tyrus describes how supportive veteran wrestlers reframed career disappointments as opportunities (17:27–18:24).
• Legends and storytelling: Both hosts agree legends often outgrow reality—wrestler Haku’s toughness, wild stories about bar fights, and the mythmaking in the business (15:02–16:59).
• “The best heels are the ones you love hating.” – Malice, (12:40)
• On television sensibilities: “Now it's like, the magic’s out of the bag, and wrestling's strong enough… but I wish they'd kind of go back to protecting it a little bit, because you're only one show away from changing it.” – Tyrus (20:07)

3. Soviet Communism, Totalitarianism, and American Blind Spots

Malice uses his Soviet background to illustrate the real dangers of authoritarianism versus overblown American anxieties.

• “You guys don't know how bad it could get. You don't know how evil it is.” – Malice, (00:11)
• Americans have no frame of reference for the everyday fear of Soviet life—concerns about arbitrary arrest, family members being used against you, or neighbors betraying you to authorities (08:49–09:27, 46:05).
• “The first time Americans realized the nature of evil was during COVID... People were turning in their neighbors and bragging about it. That was very Soviet and it was scary.” – Malice (46:41)
• Explains informant culture in East Germany and discusses how enforced conformity leads ordinary people to perpetuate the system (48:00).

4. Anarchism, Power, and Modern Media

The duo explores why Malice embraces anarchism, how media shapes public perceptions of "evil," and why bureaucracy is more frightening than comic book villains.

• “Anarchism is true. So yes, if you're honest, you’re gonna be an anarchist.” – Malice (07:20)
• The real problem is not cartoonish villains, but petty bureaucrats using little bits of power to make others miserable. “That is something alien to the American psyche.” – Malice (19:39, 51:00)
• Contemporary media and politics rely on stereotypes—expecting evil to look obvious. “Every bad guy has to have a mustache and bang a desk... It’s not. It’s that nurse at the hospital... Get on your knees, boy. Get on your knees and kiss my ass. That's what evil is like.” – Malice (50:19)

5. COVID, Conformity, and the American “Karen” Phenomenon

The pandemic revealed latent authoritarian instincts in American society and the dangers of moralizing neighbor-on-neighbor policing.

• “Turning people in... and bragging about it.” – Tyrus (47:45)
• Demands for vaccine passports and exclusion from jobs and schools echo tactics from totalitarian states (47:00–47:31).

6. Power Dynamics in America—Spoiled vs. Vulnerable

• Americans are spoiled by historical standards; even their hardship is not comparable to life under a true dictatorship. "Can you get bread? ...You could.” – Malice (08:49)
• Explains “deep state,” the manipulation of figureheads, and preference for obedient, “dumber” politicians (49:11–49:20).

7. Wrestling, Race, and Language

The parallels in how language and labels are weaponized—whether in wrestling or modern politics.

• N-word & Nazi as ultimate attacks: “It was the N-word for white people... ‘Nazi’ because it's indefensible and you're calling them the worst... subhuman.” (72:13–73:31)
• On the dilution of language: “There is not a sympathizer for the Nazi—well, there wasn't until recently. But now you've watered the word down. It doesn't mean anything anymore.” – Tyrus (72:44)

8. Nature, Invasive Species, and Human Blindness

The conversation drifts into ecology and evolutionary adaptation, paralleling it to societal change and human hubris.

• Tyrus expresses skepticism over invasive species panic—“We are the most worst evasive species in the history of the universe.” (63:05)
• On survival and extinction cycles in nature (65:29–65:33).
• Observations on rats, predatory pythons, and animal hierarchies serve as metaphors for human society (61:07–66:21).

9. Movies, Horror, and Philosophy

Analysis of horror films as a mirror to contemporary anxieties; exploration of which cultures are driving narrative innovation.

• “Why is it that horror movies have become the best movies?” – Tyrus (55:20)
• Malice points to influence from Japanese and Korean cinema and media innovation (55:24–55:48).

10. Chimpanzees, Social Organization, and Human Nature

Detailed discussion of primate societies to reflect on human tribalism, resource competition, and parallels to modern politics and entertainment.

• Malice: “If you don't have problems, you're gonna find problems.” (70:00)
• Reflection on the easy dehumanization of outsiders and how status jockeying echoes both TV and real social life (68:27–71:07).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On American conceptions of evil:

  • “You don't know how evil it is when people say, like, America is destroyed or like the west is over. Can you get bread? ...You could.” – Michael Malice (08:49)
  • “It's not [the dictator yelling]. It's that nurse at that hospital... Get on your knees, boy. That's what evil is like.” – Michael Malice (50:19)

• On the power of humor:

  • “Music, humor—these are things poor people excel at. You go to other countries, they have a sense of humor because they don't have anything else.” – Michael Malice (04:14)

• On anarchism:

  • "Anarchism is true. So yes, if you’re honest, you're gonna be an anarchist." – Malice (07:20)

• On wrestling’s magic & resilience:

  • “He was one of the best heel managers... you're intrigued, you want to hear what he has to say.” – Malice on Bobby Heenan (12:40)
  • “You are only one show away from changing it.” – Tyrus on wrestling nostalgia and reinvention (20:07)

• On COVID, conformity, and American blind spots:

  • "That was the first time Americans realized the nature of evil." – Malice (46:41)
  • “People would trip over themselves to implement these dictatorships and turn in their neighbors.” – Malice (47:31)

• On language and the weaponization of labels:

  • “It’s the same thing. It was the N word for white people. Is calling them a Nazi.” – Tyrus (72:15)

• On American naivety and spoiledness:

  • “Americans are spoiled... If I've got a second bedroom, I'll make that phone call. Americans, the idea... that this system would exist is crazy.” – Malice (46:07)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:09 – 00:19: Introduction to Michael Malice’s Soviet background and perspective on evil.
• 02:00 – 06:10: Locker room camaraderie, humor, and how taking a joke builds trust.
• 08:49 – 09:27: What Americans misunderstand about communism and real totalitarianism.
• 12:40 – 13:26: On being a great heel in wrestling, keeping the audience hooked.
• 17:27 – 18:24: Coping with setbacks; mentorship and reframing disappointment in wrestling.
• 46:05 – 47:31: Soviet informant culture, parallels during the pandemic, and the nature of American evil.
• 49:11 – 50:45: The rise of the “obedient” politician, media manipulation, and real-world evil.
• 61:07 – 66:21: Ecology, invasive species, and human parallels.
• 68:27 – 71:07: Chimpanzee social structure and human tribalism.
• 72:13 – 73:33: On the weaponization of "Nazi" and the shifting power of language.
• 73:40 – 74:12: Where to find Malice's book; closing banter.

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Tone & Style

The entire conversation is marked by sharp, rapid-fire banter, frequent ribbing, and self-deprecating humor. Tyrus grounds complex or dark themes (totalitarianism, tribalism, loss of innocence) using wrestling analogies, locker-room stories, and pop-culture references. Malice, wry and erudite, threads together anarchist philosophy, Cold War history, and contemporary media critique with punchy observations and memorable lines. The tone oscillates fluidly between laugh-out-loud anecdotes and moments of sobering clarity.

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Recommended For

Listeners interested in:

• American culture, politics, and humor
• Behind-the-scenes wrestling stories and life lessons
• An insider’s critique of authoritarianism, power, and media messaging
• The psychological and social glue of comedy and camaraderie
• Unfiltered, intellectually playful conversation with real-world impact

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“The best conversations are a hang – everyone’s just busting each other’s chops… and something really important sneaks in.” – (Malice & Tyrus, paraphrased throughout)

Transcript

[A]

There'll be a line. And you're like, you're a habitual line stepper and I love that.

[B]

At a very early age, I realized that the people the front of the room are not very impressive.

[A]

I did not know that you were born in the Soviet Union.

[B]

You guys don't know how bad it could get. You don't know how evil it is.

[A]

When we think of a bad guy, he's got to be like Skeletor. He's got to be like an over the top man.

[B]

There's so many people who have that little bit of power and they will hold onto with every bit of vibrant their being. And that is something I think alien to the American psyche.

[A]

Okay, so first of all, for people who don't know, which is very few, because you are, I like to call you a truth teller.

[B]

Oh, thank you.

[A]

Because you just, you don't give. You give zero. You really, you will say, and on the Gutfeld show, I always like when you're on, I know we're gonna get in some kind of trouble because I just feed off it. Like, you will make eye contact, there'll be a line and you're like, we're. You're a habitual line stepper. And I love that because it's like, I'm not alone where like Greg and Cat kind of have breaks with us. You'll go that down that road and I'll be like, let's go all in. Like, Jim Norton's like that. But you particularly doesn't matter what the group is. And then you'll back it up with some fact that everybody forgot about, especially with the Clintons. Like, you will still say something. You'll be like, boom, 1980. Like, you're like Anthony Hopkins. You're like, you'll just roll it out and everyone will be like, oh, yeah. So he has every right to make that joke.

[B]

Do you know what? That, why that is such a huge compliment. Because I feel that some of the people who are on that show, you don't know their names or who they are because you're there to do your Tyrus stuff.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So I'm like, I'm going to make this guy see me, even though it's really hard. Hold on. Because I'm so little. And then I remember I clowned you on some jokes and you appreciate it because I think people look at you, they think you, you don't have a sense of humor about yourself. And it's exactly backwards.

[A]

No, no, the big dudes are the ones.

[B]

It's Got to land. But the athletes, the big dudes, that's how they bust each other's chops all day.

[A]

And that's how you build friendship.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Because if you can joke with each other about the obvious, it just. I can't stand people who want to be funny but don't want to take it.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

Take the joke back. Like, everyone wants to be the guy telling the joke, but you got to be able to take it, Right?

[B]

Of course.

[A]

Speaking of locker room. So when I was at. When I was in college in Nebraska, the football team, it was like. It was an influx of brothers. The year I was there. Carne Nebraska is not known for a huge African American community. We'll just say that. And they were trying to win, and they were bringing in all these juco kids. And I was one of them. And I said, hey, can my buddies? So I had like four guys from a junior college come over. And the Nebraska guys were kind of reserved at first. They were like, very, like, very worried about saying the wrong thing and not wanting to come off a certain way and getting them to relax and just make fun of whatever, you know? Cause they were like. They thought their first name was. Hey, white boy. Dumbass. White boy, White. This Cracker.

[B]

Wonder Bread, Snowflake.

[A]

Au fait Mayonnaise. You know, like, make it up.

[B]

Say ofe. That's the 1920s word you would say.

[A]

The shit you have to come up

[B]

with in a lot more than two

[A]

days to keep it word breathing. And then you can see them wanting. And there's like. There was this stigmatism that you couldn't make fun of black guys back. And it was bullshit, right? And I'll never forget Corey Williams was our starting center. And I was teasing him because his face would get really red. Like when he was hot and stuff, he'd turn really red. And I was. I heard a redneck, but red face, you know, Like, I thought that was a Native American thing. And like, we're laughing, joking around. And one day he had just had enough, and I was messing with him about something, and he was like, hey, Graham cracker, shut up. And I just was like, he's.

[B]

It's damn, like.

[A]

Cause I'm mixed. Graham cracker, that's good. And then we started laughing. And then from that day on, it was just. The gloves were off, you know, and it was. We played better together. Would be in the thing. If he needed me, he would no longer say my number or say anything. He'd be like, graham cracker. What the other Team didn't know what he was talking about.

[B]

White people who go to college are far more sensitive about racial jokes than black people because black people have a sense of humor. When you're poorer, like, especially historically, humor's free.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

We can all laugh, Right? So that's something. Music, humor. These are things poor people excel at. You go to other countries, they have a sense of humor because they don't have anything else. But at least you could be happy that way. But if you go to college, you're taught every black person is one common away from a race riot. You got to walk on eggshells. And what ends up happening is you have this condescension toward black. I did two books with D.L. hughley, the comedian, so I learned a lot from him. You have this condescension toward black people, and they're like, you're seeing me like this thing instead of a person. You're scared to talk to me like a human being. This isn't much better because I know you're scared of me. And it's like, that's kind of funny on one level. The other hand, there's a world, there's a wall. I can't talk to you like a person.

[A]

Yeah. And that's one thing that I loved about always having being in sports because we were too busy.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

Dying out in the field together, working together. You can't have inhibitions with each other. You have to be able to trust each other. It is a brotherhood.

[B]

Yes. Yes.

[A]

And you got to be able to call it like you see it, you know? And I love that. It was a little bit of a shock for me when I got into entertainment because I would make a joke in the green room, just messing around, getting to know the guys, and I would see, like, the.

[B]

Yeah. They don't know what to do. They know how to react.

[A]

And I was like, why? Like, man, just say whatever you want to say.

[B]

But also, if you're the one making the joke, how are they the one getting offended?

[A]

Yeah. I had three kids in one year. Fire away. You know what I'm saying? Like, if you can't. Like, I'm laughing about it, not laughing every time child support comes around. You know what I'm saying? But, like. And they'll be like, oh, you had triplets? Not really. No. Did not. You know, it was a hat trick. I outsourced three different uteruses. Yes. If it was hockey, it was a hat trick. But, like, if I can, like, laugh about it in terms of, like, Accepting the responsibility of being reckless.

[B]

Right.

[A]

You know what I'm saying? That's the serious side of it.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

But like, if someone says, how dare you bring that up? You know, like, I'm not ashamed of my kids. Kids, you know?

[B]

Right.

[A]

You know what I'm saying? So I, I, they make jokes about it like, hey, dad, you're lucky there was an extra month in the year because we would have had a fourth one, you know, and you're like, pretty good kid. Not bad. Not bad. So. But that's, you do a great job of mixing strong intellect with a hilarious punchline.

[B]

Well, thank you. That's right.

[A]

Have you always been that way? Has that been, like, your personality?

[B]

There's a book written about me called Ego and Hubris, a graphic novel. It came out in 2006 by somebody, Harvey Pekar, who is the star of the movie American Splendor. And at a very early age, I realized that the people at the front of the room are not very impressive. And that applies for teachers, for principals or politicians. And once you understand that, a lot of other dominoes fall into place. So I enjoyed being a smart ass kid from Brooklyn kind of putting these people in their place and they didn't know what to do. So I think I always have been that way. It's something I enjoy a lot.

[A]

Now this is the black flag. Comes in many colors. I already, I already love it.

[B]

Well, I gotta be black, right?

[A]

Yep. The Anarchist Handbook.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Are you an anarchist? Are you just honest?

[B]

Well, anarchism is true. So, yes, if you're honest, you're gonna be an anarchist. Yes.

[A]

It's funny because you would think if you're honest, you'd be the hero.

[B]

What do you mean? The anarchist is the hero? What are you talking about?

[A]

Well, not in this, not in the current media.

[B]

Well, that's the propaganda. The propaganda is the politician's the hero. And then you look around and it's just nonsensical. Oh, I was in North Korea. I got the suit.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You've never been to North Korea?

[A]

No, no, no, wait. Twice last year.

[B]

It's the new Milan. You know, I just went back to, I went to Seoul and North Korea was better, I'm not gonna lie.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

It was. You would have loved it because you'd be Godzilla to them.

[A]

Yeah. When I was called Kaiju K. You Kaiju. And I was like. At first, like, huh? And then I was like, oh, I love it. Thank you. Yeah. So, okay, you're an interesting dude. So you were born in. I'm Only going up this because I guess my. My team looked this up. You were born in the former Soviet Union.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And then you immigrated as a child and you grew up in New York.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And so you. You kind of understand the communism a little better than anyone else because it's your family lineage. You guys had to deal with it.

[B]

I wrote a book about as well, the white pill, which is the story of the rise and fall of the Soviet Union. And I did it because it was driving me crazy that so many people in conservative spaces were saying, like, biden's a communist. When it's like, you guys don't know how bad it could get. You don't know how evil it is when people say, like, America is destroyed or like the west is over. Can you get bread? You know, you could.

[A]

You can go, this is America. If you have a pistol and $20, you can get food.

[B]

Right.

[A]

One or the other. And it's 24 7.

[B]

Right. So when people talk society being destroyed, you don't know what it's like to live in fear, to worry that there's gonna be a knock on the door, that your kids will be taken to be used against you or vice versa. Americans have no idea about this. So this is why I wrote that book, the white Pill, and it did speak to where I came from because it's kind of like as bad as you think it is. And things are very bad in very many ways in America. It could get way, way worse. And it has. And the good guys end up winning. And that's the story that isn't told.

[A]

I love the fact that this, I mean, this is a hard cover book

[B]

and it glows in the dark.

[A]

Yeah. This is like you. Spare notes. So would you. What do you like doing more? You like talking or writing?

[B]

I like talking more because writing takes a lot out of you. You've written several books.

[A]

Listen.

[B]

Yeah, it's intense. And the thing I like about writing is the book's gonna be there when I'm gone, so it'll always be on the shelf. But the thing I like about talking is, as I'm sure you have the same thing. When people are home watching it, they know it's spontaneous that, you know, this is the thing I like. What I liked about doing Guffield and with you and other people is I feel that sometimes when I'm not there. I don't just mean personally. It's like one person talks. The next person. It's like four monologues. I like it when it's a Hang.

[A]

When it's a hang. There's a conversation. Right.

[B]

And we're all bus. You're all.

[A]

And something goes off the wheels.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

Like usually the best.

[B]

The Friday shows.

[A]

Yeah. Whenever I guest host I don't do a monologue.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Like. And that Greg is. Is a great order. And the monologue is like his thing. I also think anyone else doing a monologue on his show is kind of a bad idea.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

Because you're not gonna do it like he does.

[B]

Well, Shalou does a good job.

[A]

Yeah. Well it's. But it's. But when you compare it to gray.

[B]

Sure, sure.

[A]

It's apples to oranges, no shade. Shalhou's a talented guy. But the guy who the irritating whimsicalness of Gutfeld is. You know what I'm saying? Because he just pisses people off.

[B]

Oh yeah. I love that he's a troll like me.

[A]

Yeah. He's. Yeah. You guys have a lot in common.

[B]

But.

[A]

And then he'll hit you with some like serious knowledge and huh. And then he'll say some weird to where you'd be like what was. What was that again?

[B]

But that. That's the fun. I think when the audience has to keep guessing. I think a lot of times on some of these shows you know what the person's gonna say before they open their mouth. Why am I watching this?

[A]

Right. Yeah. Because it's always. I always get ready for me to hit the channels when I hear someone say to your point.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right? Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. And I'm just.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, it's one of the worst things you. I. You don't get that. And you've got some crazy outfits too because you're on everything. I see you wrote. I see you everywhere and you have some pretty outlandish outfits. I feel like you just love living rent free in everyone's mind.

[B]

Not only. But I grew up in wrestling. Right. So look at Ric Flair.

[A]

You would have been a hell of a man. You're still time.

[B]

Oh I would be.

[A]

You would be one of the best heel managers.

[B]

That was my fantasy as a kid being Bobby Heenan's like protege.

[A]

Yeah. Because Bobby Heenan is my all time favorite manager and I love Paul Heyman the person and I love when he was Paulie Dangerously and when his WCW days and stuff. But Heenan was. He made the guy didn't matter who he was managing. They were the number one. If they were wrestling Hogan because they had Bobby didn't matter if they lost eight matches in A row. They were the guy.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Because Heenan said he was. They were the guy.

[B]

Right.

[A]

You know, and I still remember crying because I thought Orndorff's feet hit first. And, you know, Bobby was so upset. And I believed him when he was gonna get lawyers. I believed that he was rich. I didn't pay attention to the polyester outfit, like, you know, like, because he had blonde hair.

[B]

Right.

[A]

You know, and once I got into the business, I learned a lot. But like Heenan, also him and Gorilla Monsoon, I think was my favorite all time commentary.

[B]

What I liked about him. And I think now that we're older, you can look back when you were a kid. I think people respect now how hard it is to be a good heel because you have to get the person to hate you, but they have to like hating you. It's tough because it's easy to be a jerk. But he wasn't a jerk. You're intrigued. You want to hear what he has to say.

[A]

Right? But he would do things. He would always like. Him and Gorilla Monsoon were just.

[B]

And they were besties too, in real life.

[A]

Yeah. And the best play by play guy is Jim Ross. Jim Ross didn't need a voice next to him, but he just didn't. Jim Ross, you were hooked. He made it real. Every punch mattered. Every, every. Every move had a. Had a backstory. But in terms of like, back and forth, because you could say Jesse and gorilla, but to me, Bobby and Gorilla, it was just that dynamic.

[B]

Do you know what I liked about Jesse? When Jesse Ventura was commentating, it would be like someone comes out with a steel chair, hits him on the head, just like, what are you talking about?

[A]

Bonsen. Yeah, My monitor was off and like. Well, he had it coming.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You're at home and you're like, but does it. Jesse just flies off the handle. Where are you on that one? Monsoon?

[B]

Do you know why they hate each other?

[A]

Do I know why they hate each other in real life? Yeah. Hogan and. And J. Well, because Hogan allegedly backdoored him. Jesse was trying to start a union for wrestlers.

[B]

Oh, is that what it was?

[A]

And to make sure everyone got equal

[B]

pay, Hogan made the call.

[A]

And Hogan was one of. Was the fattest fish in.

[B]

In the pond. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

And he smartened up Vince to it. And Vince fired him. That's the. That's the underground story. And okay, thinking back at the time, it kind of makes a little sense because Hogan was making triple. What the other guy.

[B]

Oh, yeah, he was the guy.

[A]

Yeah. And he was the. But if you were married to him, if you were working with him, you were making some big money. And then the pay differential when you weren't working with him.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Was a lot different. So a lot of guys were bitter. But it's funny, like the. The core journeyman guys, like Hacksaw and like my son's grandfather, Haku. Like, when those guys talk. When those guys talk. So it's nothing but love because they. They were working because the arenas were filled and their pay was a lot better, even if it wasn't up to where he was. But they were fine with it because everybody ate off his fame.

[B]

The thing I've. I've seen a lot of these shoot interviews, and Haku isn't a huge name in retrospect. Right. But every single person says he's the toughest person.

[A]

They respected him. He is the sweetest grandfather I could ever ask for.

[B]

But Heenan told a story how he saw Haku in a bar fight and he pulled the guy's tooth out.

[A]

And he says every year it gets longer and wider. This and that. Every. I focus on PA. He was one of the toughest guys to chase the American dream. And unfortunately, when you're tougher than life on tv, people. And I had to deal with a lot of the same thing, too. People try to kill the giant, and a lot of people got their asses handed to him. But then every year, here's a perfect example, when I worked at Saddle Ranch, I got jumped by four guys, okay. the end, it didn't end well for them. And by this time, when I go back home, it's up to 12 now. And one of the guys, I threw him into the curb and he broke his collarbone, but now he broke his neck and he was in a wheelchair. Like, every year, the legend gets better and better and better. And I think a lot of times, especially when. When a wrestler is telling an event of what happens, they're going to sprinkle the magic on it. So it was everything from eyeballs to teeth to ears and stuff like that. He was one of the baddest guys, but he was also one of the most gentlest souls. Like, here's a story, a lot of people don't know him. And Hacksaw, when they were fighting over the crown, Hacksaw ruptured his Achilles tendon.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[A]

So. And back then, you. You didn't get paid time off, Right?

[B]

Right.

[A]

You didn't work next guy up.

[B]

Right.

[A]

So they're torn 300 days a year back then, and every Night. Haku took care of him in the ring. They come down, all you had to do was get in the ring. He'd jump him, he'd work his leg, and then lo and behold, there'd be a roll up. 1, 2, 3. And they did that every night until hacksaw was better.

[B]

Oh, wow.

[A]

That's who.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

That's who he was. Him and Arn Anderson and Haku, they traveled up and down the road together, calling each other Fat Man. You know, like, those are the stories that, that I love to hear because every time I see him, it's like being under the learning tree, you know?

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

And when I was going through my stuff with the WWE and they may turn me into the Funkasaurus, I was terrified to come home to tell him that, you know? And when it debuted on Raw, I

[B]

just watched it last week. It's really sweet.

[A]

And I come, I get to the house, my son's like, he's just, he's still got steam on his head. He's so young. And I walk through the door because I wanted to quit, you know, because I was like, they ruined everything. I worked so hard for Arne Anderson, and I worked. Oh, man. Arnie said, how many wet shirts did I have a day rolling around with ring making you the killer that I wanted you to be, to work like me, not like other big guys work like me. And because I made jokes in locker room, Vince equated that to dancing. I don't know how you get there, but sure. And I'm watching the tape with him and I, I got wells of water in my eyes. So I'm just. And he's just laughing his ass off, and he's like, you're gonna make so much money, right? And I was like, huh? He's like, this is great.

[B]

It's great.

[A]

It really is great. He's like, you don't have to even bump, right? You know how many years it's gonna add to your career, like. And all the things I didn't think about, you know, and then I was like. And then the next week I came out and I was like, get the kids in the ring.

[B]

But like, like, if you're at 8, if you have to think about if I'm an 8 year old boy, I saw this and I forgot those are

[A]

the fans that mattered, right? And once I remembered, because when I was cool, when JYD came out to the ring and the kids got in the ring with them, I was like, man, oh, man, you know, if I could get in that ring, the things that me and my brother would practice, what our moves would be. We didn't really even like JYD because he wasn't. He wasn't. One of my favorite was Mr. Wonderful. Paul Orndorff and Big John Stud. Those are my two favorites at that time. And then when the Islanders joined Heenan, I was like, oh, man, this is. I'm in absolute heaven.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I remember that very well.

[A]

But wrestling was such a. It was so different back then. Because they protected the magic, right?

[B]

Sure. Until axel it up.

[A]

Yeah. We went out to dinner with the Sheik. But they.

[B]

Not just dinner. He got co smoking with him.

[A]

Well, peace pipe.

[B]

But that's why I put on the outfits.

[A]

No, hey. But we used to, like. It's funny, me and Sandow, best friends and. But we were so much marks for the old way that if we were in an airport, we would sit on opposite sides. You know, if we were at a restaurant, we would not sit at the same table.

[B]

Would you always call each other by your stage names, too?

[A]

Yeah, always.

[B]

Always, Right?

[A]

Yeah, always. And it was always. You know, we even had one time where we both had seats in first class and we were next to each other, and he acted like he wouldn't sit next to me. And the students is like, sir. And he's like, was someone switching me? I'm not sitting next to this monster, you know. And I was like, I'm not sitting next to you with whatever you got in your hair, you know, you pompous. Da, da, da. And we would. Because we just loved the old way, of course.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And now it's kind of. The magic's out of the bag and wrestling's strong enough to where the fans just love it. But I wish they'd kind of go back to protecting it a little bit, because here's the thing about wrestling. You're only one show away from changing it. Like, right now, everyone. Their mom does. I couldn't. Like, people keep asking me since I've leaned out, and they're like, hey, you ever think about making a comeback? And I said, I would die in the first match because I can't do six planches. Hurricane Rana takes six power bombs, you know, and then kick out. You know what I'm saying? That's just too. I'm not doing all that. They would hate me. I would put them in an arm bar and the crowd would leave.

[B]

But you know, what else.

[A]

But it takes one guy.

[B]

But, you know, this is funny. I went to see a show recently Dolph, a couple years ago. Dolph, he's real cool, dude.

[A]

He's the best.

[B]

Talk about someone who's a natural heel. Like. Like, he's.

[A]

Ziggler is. He's my favorite, favorite guy to work because he has the best sense of humor in the ring. He cracks so many jokes in the ring, and the weirdest. We're in a pay per view, and he's former champion, and I'm up against a former champion, and it's a big pay per view, and at first, we only had, like, six minutes, but everything was going so well, and Jake Swagger was on the outside and hit me with this cool thing. When Vince likes something, he'll gift you minutes. So the. Our original finish was he goes to hit the suplex, and I. I counter it. Boom. Or no, no. He goes for a high cross body. I hit my head, butt, splash. So we're going into the finish. I hit that. Go to hit the headbutt. And the ref says, hey, you guys got six more minutes. And Dolph just grabs a front because he's an amateur wrestler.

[B]

Yeah, for real.

[A]

Kicks me grab while. We're gonna figure out, okay, we got. We're going home, brother. Like, so he hooks me, and he's like, hey, whatever you do, don't let me suplex you. And if you look at the size of me and Dolph, Dolph's hooking me for the suplex, and he's like, don't let me suplex you. And I just said, are you sure? And, you know, the two of us are, like, trying not to laugh. I'm like, we got six minutes. He's so. He goes, that's a lot of time,

[B]

isn't it, in wrestling?

[A]

That's a lifetime.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

And said. I reversed it. Boom. And then swag. Jake doesn't get enough. He's doing the slap fight stuff, but he doesn't get enough credit for just. He was such a great worker. He could see things. We couldn't talk to him because he was out in the field, but once I reversed that splash and went to hit the ropes, he just instinctively grabbed my leg. Then I turned.

[B]

Boom.

[A]

We got on the floor, we just stretched. Now we got three minutes, like, working with Dolph and him, when they were together, they didn't get enough credit. Dolph doesn't get enough credit. I think just because the system's designed now to where they don't want to have a big fish, they don't want to have another Shawn Michaels or Bret Hart or a triple H. Iraq, where a guy is so big, where he kind of calls his shots.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

You know, Cena was always a great company man. Whatever was asked, he would do it. But there were certain guys that would get to the spot and be like, I'm not doing that tonight.

[B]

Is that right?

[A]

Yeah, because they were. You know, Hogan was That way. You know, there were certain guys that were like, I don't know if I like this, you know, And. And I think Dolph was one of those guys that. I don't think he'll. When people look back on his career, when he's done, I think they'll look back and be like, this is one of the best of our generation.

[B]

He was around for a long time. He's not. Is he really okay?

[A]

Yeah, yeah. And he's still taking, like, I. Him and I have one of the craziest bumps ever at WrestleMania. We're coming off of. He runs up. It's. He runs up at the stage, at me, jumps in the air at me, and I headbutt him. And that head. That standing headbutt. I did stiff as shit. There's just no way to. And he eats. Look it up. Eats shit on the rail. I thought he was dead, of course. And the WrestleMania crowd is. They're just looking for a up, of course. But they're going chanting. It was just. But he bounced off the thing, off the grate. He just thought he died. And I was just like, we get in the back, and it was like, major league great bump. Don't ever do it again. He was hurt. And then we're on Smackdown. He runs on the steps, jumps in the air. Hit the headbutt on him again. He hits the ground. I'm like, dolph, stop jumping in the air, man. Because he doesn't know how to take a bump. Just a bump. Everything's spectacular. And then something. Oh, that's him. And Jack shoot me off. I. They go for a double clothesline. I duck it, hit the ropes. Dusty Rose, flying clothesline. Bill Pop. They roll out. Crowds going crazy. Vince apparently hates the double clothesline spot. We didn't know, okay? We get through the thing, and he's like, do it again. And we're like, oh, yeah? Do what again? The whole match. So we had to go really. Smackdown.

[B]

Holy sh.

[A]

And this time with Dolph was coming around there, and you have no time to, like, change shit up. And the crowd. Smackdown. Crowd is like, what the hell?

[B]

Yeah. It's like, april.

[A]

Yeah. We just come walking back out and we get in there and we're doing. And he goes. And I said, I throw him out. I said, whatever you do, don't do the double clothes. Don't jump.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, do not jump.

[A]

Like, we don't need to. It just, you're just not going to see it. You know, they can, if they like it, they can cut in piece it because it's recorded. But he would do things like that. And of course Dolph runs around the corner and jumps in the air again and you know, you do the hit. But like, that's just who he was. He is like, he. And he's smart guy, funny guy, but he's one of the, like, he will work the match if you don't get over. He thinks he had a bad match, right?

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Yeah, he's one of those guys. And he was my. One of my favorites to work with. And he's so light.

[B]

That's the thing that's funny to me that like, we know enough about from UFC about fight dynamics. If you got like 80 pounds on a guy, you're not just. It's not, it's not a thing.

[A]

The fact that wrestling is still alive, right? With bare knuckle fighting, ufc, then they got the slap. Like all the real. One slap can knock you out, right? You know, and bare knuckle fighting, you see their faces, they look like hell.

[B]

But it's, it's also funny, like, and

[A]

then CM Punk went to UFC and saw how that worked out. Not everyone could be Brock, why am

[B]

I unconscious if you clothesline me? It makes no sense.

[A]

No. And,

[B]

and the other thing is, I was yelling at Dolph after I saw his match. I'm like, you're a world champion wrestler. You don't know to look behind you at this point. You know, to hook the leg.

[A]

Some things never change.

[B]

Like, no sense look behind you.

[A]

Like, he's a I program where I kept getting snuck up on by Big show, just,

[B]

yeah, the world's biggest ninja.

[A]

And they'd punch me, you know, and, and you'd be like. And every February, Big show would beat up all the brothers. Every February, like, clock to the point where I just had him on the podcast. And I thought I was like, whose idea was that? Because it's without. No matter what, without fail, every February, somehow.

[B]

That's Black History Month.

[A]

Yeah, no shit.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It was R Truth. Kofi and me would be down in the ring for some reason, some shenanigans. His music would hit and we would all Die horrible deaths every February like clockwork and. But you look back on it and you just absolutely laugh. Wrestling is. I will never get tired of it. I just. Coming out of the gym, I was just watching this week. I was watching when Ole Anderson got kicked out of the Horseman. And like I said, we came in. I love the. The old stuff is. It's just they did so much with so little. And I think that's what made wrestling so beautiful was like. Ric Flair had no business being 12 time champion. all. Absolutely. Not at all. He did six moves, but it didn't matter because he did six moves Hogan did. Hogan figured it out every match. Go watch him in Japan.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

He's a wrestling machine in Japan.

[B]

Oh, really?

[A]

Oh, yeah. Because he had to be.

[B]

Okay. But in the States, every match is. Exactly.

[A]

But he figured out the formula.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

For the. The reason why the ratings were so high. Bad guy comes in, beats him up, hulks up, boot. The only thing he screwed up is he should have done elbow drop. The leg drop every night is why he had no more hips.

[B]

Oh, is that what. Okay.

[A]

Should have did the big elbow because landing on your ass and your tailbone every night.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

Not the best.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

But he figured it out. The attention span of the audience during the 80s and 90s and that's what they wanted.

[B]

I know. I hated him.

[A]

Oh, I didn't like him either. I was a Heenan family.

[B]

Yeah, exactly.

[A]

He made me cry a lot, you know, just because I would get so upset. I get so worked up because Orndorff was my favorite wrestler. And when ORNDORFF Lost at WrestleMania 1, I was unconsolable. I hated Cowboy Bob Orton, who was my second favorite. Like, no one blamed him. He hit him in the head with a cast he missed. Why is. And Piper did the thing, you know, and then they coming out and. And then Orndorff was big babyface. And then when Orndorff turned on him, I was just so happy.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

Like I used. I don't know, I used to go to school like the. Nobody was looking for Playboys. It was who had the wrestling magazine.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Who could convince their mom to buy the wrestling magazine in the shopping line.

[B]

I remember the first one I bought was with Ken Patera.

[A]

Mine was the Honky Tonk Man.

[B]

That was the third one I got. It's that black cover.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And it was really interesting because the article about him there. They couldn't use his name because they're like the man who became the Honky Tonk Man. I remember that.

[A]

Yeah. Because he had trademark. He got in some trouble with Elvis and them. But like, honky. No.

[B]

Do you know what he did? Okay, I'll tell you. I got sorry because one of my heroes is Andy Kaufman, who was like the first big troll, right?

[A]

Yeah, he was great.

[B]

Andy Honky Tonk man. When I'm 10, 11, this didn't make sense. Now, in retrospect, I'm like this genius. He said Elvis stole his act.

[A]

Yes, he did.

[B]

Elvis died because it was heat.

[A]

You go down to the south and say, Elvis is a hack, you're gonna get booed.

[B]

I'm sitting there like, how is that chronologically possible? It was so effing brilliant. I'm so.

[A]

He's one of the greatest.

[B]

He came out as workers as Kim Chi. What was that guy's name?

[A]

Yeah, yeah. With the mask.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

Kamal Handler. Yeah.

[B]

It was so epic. And the good. And when he hit that guitar over Randy Savage's head, he.

[A]

Oh, because he. That was the first time. Because he pushed Elizabeth, right? And no one could believe it.

[B]

My jaw dropped.

[A]

Yeah. Because even I was like, hey, hey.

[B]

I. Yeah, we're crossing a line here.

[A]

You can't hit girls, bro. But. And he hit him with the but that's also. Was the night that, like, Bret Hart became a star.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

Because him and Savage had that amazing match, right? See this stuff? I. This is why we get along. Because we both spent more time on the TV than paying attention to what our parents were telling. My. My mother sat me down and made me watch the 2020 special. She was going to end this Wrestling's fake bullshit. I would get beatings standing on wrestling was real. I was just. I'd get sp. Like, it would get to the point where. Because she was running out of furniture. I don't know how many coffee tables went down between me and my brother was suplexes and. And attempted pile drivers and leg drops and jump off the couch. And luckily, once my brother discovered the Honky Tonk man, he was just doing the neck breaker.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

But for a while, he was like doing snookers, trying to do the high cross body off the couch and I'd catch him.

[B]

Hold on. How in your. It's hard to remember because you were a kid. How in your little kid brain does missing link and Kamala make sense?

[A]

Well, he was a missing link.

[B]

That doesn't make sense.

[A]

He pulled his hair like. And he had a blue tongue for some reason. I don't know the type of people he Ate Blood Blue. Kamala. They found him in Uganda. I think it was because you just. It was such an escape. It was real. It wasn't like a Disney cartoon. It was like this. If they said it was real also. You didn't have that.

[B]

The.

[A]

The skeptic asshole hadn't been invented yet. You know, like, leaned over, like, you know it's fake, right?

[B]

You don't have to.

[A]

Here's his name.

[B]

You don't have to be a skeptic asshole to be like, people in Uganda have a language and are capable of speaking a language.

[A]

Well, he was a different one because you didn't care. You just knew that he was any. The most non.

[B]

George the Animal Steele.

[A]

You know what, though? He. When he did that movie with Johnny

[B]

Depp, who did George. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

And he was magnificent.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

I had a hard time with that because I was like. I didn't want to believe that was real. I wanted to believe it was lip sync.

[B]

Didn't he go to, like, Yale or something?

[A]

Yeah, he was genius.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah, right?

[A]

But he was smart because he didn't have to do anything, right? And his. I used to do that to Sandow. We'd get in the ring on house shows. I'd do those. His thing and chase him around the ring. I loved it. I absolutely loved it. And the crowd. It doesn't matter, because it was such a wild. It was such a wild thing, but it was such a. When I look back on it, it was such a happy break. It was just something.

[B]

It was so. It was a soap opera, guys.

[A]

Yeah. And it was fun.

[B]

It was a lot of fun.

[A]

And my mother finally had it, and she sat me down to watch the 2020 special. And they almost had me, like Mr. Fuji and Barry Windham. They. Their match was 30 seconds long because they were running out of time. And I was like, so. And then they were showing a slap that didn't quite hit, and I was like, so. And then he was. They showed another one, and then some former wrestler was on there saying it was all fake. And I was like, okay, I'm starting to crack. She's seeing it starting to crack. And then he's in the hallway with Dr. D. David Schultz, and he's like, I think wrestling's fake. And he slapped him, and he's like, is that fake? And then he slapped him again, and he took off running. And I just went, told you. And she was like, get your ass to bed.

[B]

Have you talked to Stossel about that? No, I've had him on My show. I've talked to him about it.

[A]

He's still bitter, though.

[B]

Well, you don't. You can't blame him.

[A]

I don't know. You go into. You go into a man's business and you tell him it's fake. I mean, that's like going into him get the slap. Maybe he shouldn't have at least two. Definitely not. Come on. But like, he's protecting the business.

[B]

Wait, wait. Come on.

[A]

You're a big dude.

[B]

It's. I bet it takes a lot for you to raise your hand to somebody.

[A]

Not really. It takes me a lot to remind myself, okay, I'm a big dude. Because sometimes I think people don't respect the law of the jungle sometimes. And they'll walk up and get in somebody's face that they have absolutely no business doing.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

And he was literally in his face telling him that his life work was shit.

[B]

No, he wasn't telling you it was shit.

[A]

It was. Wrestling's fake. I think it's fake.

[B]

And he was in his face in

[A]

a, like an aggressive way as best he could.

[B]

Oh, this is John Stossel. He's like the nicest guy.

[A]

They always are the nicest guys. I. Sorry. I'm not a fan of any journalist.

[B]

I'm not a fan either.

[A]

Any. And sometimes I feel like I'm the

[B]

one who coined the church as a child.

[A]

It saved for me that slap. I slept good that night because my dream was not shattered. I did not have to go to school the next day and hear about. Because the girls were like, it's fake. It's fake. I'm like, yeah, yeah. Well, the slap. You know, the girls in the bus would love to make you watching your wrestling because Wrestling magazine, it was like. It wasn't as across the board popular because it was two trains of thoughts. It's completely fake. And they wanted absolutely nothing to do. It was stupid.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Or it was the greatest thing ever.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And let's just say the. The school level of popularity, the wrestling fans were not on the lion's share of, like, they didn't have the girl. We didn't have the girlfriends, you know, like.

[B]

Well, at least you had Miss Elizabeth. I had a poster up on my bedroom wall.

[A]

I had Heather Thomas, I had Pam Grier, and I had Miss Elizabeth.

[B]

Pam Grier? Yeah. Wow.

[A]

Big Pam Greer fan. But Ms. Elizabeth was.

[B]

Did you ever meet her special?

[A]

No. No. It's funny, I never want to meet anyone that I had, like, a crush on or was my favorite wrestler. That was one of the things in the W. When I was in the wwe, I was trying to avoid guys that I met.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Because I knew 99 of the time you're going to be. And I was like, like, Haku, absolutely not. He was like, of course it was a personal thing meeting him, but, like, Dusty Rose didn't go well when I first met him. Oh, I, I absolutely, like, I was so nervous because, you know, when they ask you who your favorite guys are and stuff, and. And Bill Demont, who is my trainer, wanted me to do a lot of Dusty stuff because he's like, you have charisma. And, like, I want you to do the elbow. Like, just let me just mess around with it in an event to try to get me to loosen up in the ring. Because he's like, you're really strong and you're a little stiff. We gotta loosen you up.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know you're gonna hurt guys and you don't want to hurt guys. And he was. Your problem is, is that you. You love it so much that you. You playing wrestler. You want to do everything you saw on tv, you can't. So we gotta loosen you up.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

And then Dusty was working with MVP at the time. He was getting MVP ready for TV and he came down to. We were in McDonough, Georgia, and he was like, hey, we have a special guest today. It's closed. Dusty's down here to work with mvp. I'll hook it up so you can meet him. And I was like, oh, man, I couldn't wait to meet him. And I was all excited. And Dusty comes in, he's got his Texas University hat on, but he's sitting there and he's got his flannel on. And Bill goes, hey, Dusty, somebody wants to meet you. And I was like. And I was like, I had my speech ready. Hey, sir, you're one of my favorite wrestlers of all time. And, you know, and I just. It's really an honor to meet you. And I didn't even know I was going to say. I was kind of tongue tied. And I walked in the room and I was like. Stuck my hand out, and I was like, Mr. Rhodes. And he's like, I only talk to stars, baby. Are you a star? And I went, he said that.

[B]

Was he testing you?

[A]

I don't know what he was doing. And I just went, yeah.

[B]

What are you supposed to say to that?

[A]

I. I think. I think so. He's like, talk to me when you a star. And I just went. Turned around. And I was like, this guy I Hate, like, what? Crush.

[B]

Cyrus isn't telling the audience. Also, Dusty Rhodes has a lisp.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So it's even funny. He's like, are you a star?

[A]

I only talk to stars, baby.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

Yeah. Call me when you're a star. This 300 and didn't even do the. He didn't even, like, blink. He was like. He gave me wow. And I just went. And I walked through the door and walked out. And Bill's like, how'd it go? And I was like, he told me to come back when I'm a star. He's like, oh, that's good.

[B]

I'm like, it's not.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Doesn't feel so good.

[A]

Let's try it again. Let's try this again. Wow. I only. And he was like, oh, man, don't. And then I left. And then he. He was dealing with guys who were getting ready for tv, and I was just. I was like. Only had been there, like, a couple weeks, and it wasn't until, like, they had ended up moving all the way to Florida stuff when he was in there and he came in and he was like, big, baby, why didn't you call me? And I was like, cause I'm not a star yet. And he started laughing. He's like, oh, you're too sensitive. You gotta learn to shake it off. That was a test. And you failed miserably.

[B]

I knew it was a test. I knew it was a test, you

[A]

know, but then it was just like. We just kind of hit it off. But my whole relationship with him, he never, ever would talk to him about wrestling. Always life. He was always worried about me outside of wrestling.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Like, you know, with, like, relationships and stuff, that's all we would talk about. And finally one day, I was like, I want to know about you with superstar Billy Graham. I've watched that match over and over again. You ate his ass up when he was the champ. Tell me why. And he was like, he sucked. He wasn't good. I carried him. I was the American dream. I said, you beat the hell out of him in the bull rope. Yeah. I even made him pin me. He was terrified. And I was, like, watching it back with him.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

You know, and then he was. And then we just got to the point where it was just. He would say things. I remember one day he got mad at me. I didn't have a good match at practice, and I was kind of half assing it. And he was like, you either play or go home. And this. That, whatever. You could be a Champion. I was three time old champ. You know why? And I said, because you were the booker. And he was like, get the hell out. You know? But, like, I look back on that,

[B]

he would also say he's the greatest athlete in the world.

[A]

He was a hell of a basketball player. That.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Did you ever see him in the celebrity basketball games? He would eat those guys up.

[B]

Yeah, but he was a fat mess.

[A]

But you know what? Back then, he was so good, he could be.

[B]

Oh, I know.

[A]

He was the only guy that could be that way.

[B]

No, there were other, like, big fat.

[A]

Name one that was the champ.

[B]

Oh, not a. Not a champ.

[A]

Yeah, that was in there with the top guys. Like, none. Like Big Bubba, but he was, you know, Bundy Bundy, but never world champ on the major networks.

[B]

Well, it's hard. I don't think you could be a heel champ that.

[A]

Then he was champ in, like, in Georgia, I think, Florida and stuff. But, like, once Hogan came on, it was because for a while, you know, Iron Sheik was the heel, and then

[B]

Honky had the intercontinental.

[A]

Honky with the longest run was not the plan. And then he was the plan. Honky was punishment. Steamboat was in deep shit. So why.

[B]

What happened with Steamboat?

[A]

They got. Steamboat was a victim of being too good.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

His WrestleMania 3 match was savage.

[B]

Was insane.

[A]

Yeah. Little too good. When the other match, the main event match, was based on a body slam.

[B]

Oh, yeah, right. A second attempt. Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. So. And it was kind of like. And. But they had. They had 25 falsies in that match.

[B]

Okay?

[A]

So. And I love Steamboat. He's one of my favorite coaches. One of my favorite things about him was, like, if you asked him a question, it was always a long, detailed answer.

[B]

Okay?

[A]

So the guys would be like, we're getting blown up in drills because this guy had a motor. He. He even. I think he was in his 50s when we were with him. He could go all night. So I would be like. We'd be exhausted. And I'd be like, hey, I have a question about gear changes. Oh, I'm glad you asked. And then 25 minutes later, and I look at all the boys and be like. To the point where, like, we'd be rolling around Kofi and be like, hey, ask Steamboat a question. So we got this drill. But he. He was. The ladies loved him. Like, they just were obsessed with him. Fans, wherever he went, he was just the perfect baby face. Yeah, he sold. Like, him and his stuff with Morocco, and he was just one of those awesome guys, but he. Him and Savage, they went to Andre the boss and said, we have 25 falsies or whatever. And he said, we have one slam go, like, do your thing. And they tore the roof off. And there's always a WrestleMania after party. And Steamboat said to Savage, I think. I think we're in. I think we're in trouble.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Because, you know, they're calling it the greatest match. And it still is. It's still one of the. I'd say. I'd say maybe Rock Hogan surpass it in terms of reaction, but like, terms of just great match. I think Savage and Steamboat.

[B]

Was that the one where he hit

[A]

him with the bell for the. He broke. He broke his. Because the story in it was perfect, Right. Savage dropped the bell on his throat. He never crushed his larynx. He could never talk again.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

He was doing the promos.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

And then at WrestleMania, it was. Steel pushed Savage off the top rope.

[B]

Yeah, right.

[A]

And Steve. Oh, put him in the small package. And the place went crazy. But. And then Barnett was the. Was the guy who cut the checks back then. And you got bonuses. Like, Andre got a. I think he got like a $300,000 bonus and Hogan got a 500,000 bonus. And. And Savage got a bonus. And then when it came to steam, I was like, no, he gets his pay. Because the concern was. Is like, was he getting bigger than Hogan after that match? So there was no return match. We never got Savage on, like, hiatus. Well, he went. The main house shows with Hogan and Andre went. And they got put on the other one, the smaller one. Now Savage became top heel and went on to great things because he was now good for Hogan because he was a heel. He could work.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Steamboat's a problem. So he's the only guy to ever lose the intercontinental champion on Challenge of Wrestling. That was the Saturday morning program where everyone beat up jobbers and he loses the honky tonk man on there.

[B]

That's right. Yeah.

[A]

And then no feud, no rematch with Savage. There should have been a rematch. Their feud could have kept going.

[B]

Of course. Yeah.

[A]

Went away. And then WrestleMania 4 in the tournament. We're going to see Savage and Steamboat again. But Greg the Hammer beat Steamboat.

[B]

I remember that year in between three and four, Steamboat was like on the side of a milk carton.

[A]

Yeah. You could see him because he got too big.

[B]

Oh, wow.

[A]

He was a problem. Then he. Then he left, went to WCW and beat Flair for the heavyweight championship. So they were like, we'll take you, you know, but like. And then. But the wwe. And I always was like, man. So that kind of gave me like a bitter taste in my mouth for like Hogan and them. But you also, you don't know. You're not there. You don't know what the plan is.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

And you know, but it's still one of the greatest matches. And Steamboat wasn't. He just told it. Matter of fact, he didn't tell. I know bitter guys, you know, and he's not one of them. But he was just saying, like, sometimes you go for it. Right. And there's going to be repercussions in life, you know, because I. Steamboat was on a trajectory to where you were going to have a problem soon because they didn't have baby versus baby back then.

[B]

It's funny you say that, because I think part of my Russian upbringing is you're always aware of who has power over you. Right, right. Because in the Soviet Union, you had to know if this. If this person is like me, what could they do? And often it was a lot. And Americans have this idea of always do the best job. And they don't understand that in some companies, you just gave a good example. Doing the best job is not right because you have to know if you're making your upstaging your boss. Your boss doesn't care about getting the project done. Your boss cares about your boss looking good.

[A]

Yeah, exactly.

[B]

And Americans do not think in those terms.

[A]

Do you think ever Americans are spoiled? Like, we haven't had a real. Like, everyone's had hard times, but they're like rebounding hard times, like a hard month, hard year. Or like, oh, hey, you're not going to own your home, but you still rent, you know, like, you have a good life. It might not be the expectations where, like, here's perfect. There's one of my favorite comedies, Death to Stalin.

[B]

Oh, that's absolute masterpiece.

[A]

Absolute master. And I. My favorite one, my favorite scenes is when the son dirty Max his dad out. When they're. When they're doing the door knocking, he's like upstairs, and the father just kind of looks at him when he walks by like, you son of like, you know. But like, they're America. They're trying to recreate that illusion with ice. Now that's not happening.

[B]

Oh, it's.

[A]

It's absolutely ridiculous.

[B]

The thing is with the people with ice, they're guilty. Right. If I'm here illegally, I know any moment I can be deported. In the Soviet Union, you are arrested. You don't know why. They just come in the middle of the night. Because someone dropped a note in your. There's. They would joke about it. I talk about this in my book. So Russians have this very dark sense of humor. Right. Because you have to deal with it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So what would happen?

[A]

That makes sense to me because you make your, you make your tragedy.

[B]

That's exactly digestible. You'd be forced to live in apart. This is back in the 30s, not when my family was there. You'd be forced to live in apartments with another family. There was no housing. Right. So the joke would be like, oh my God, I called and snitched on Smith but it turns out Wilson had a better room. So they would. You would turn on the family cuz you want the room and they're getting killed. But the choice is like listen, if it's a phone call and I've got a second bedroom, I'll make that phone call. And Americans, the idea for an American A. That this system would exist is crazy.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And second that you would do this is just absolutely crazy. And I think the first time Americans realized the nature of evil was during COVID Because Covid was the first time we saw in this country people were turning in their neighbors and were bragging about it. They were happy. I got this cashier fired.

[A]

Oh my God. Yeah.

[B]

People were doing that was very Soviet and it was scary. That's why they left New York. Cuz when they had this vaccine passport. In restaurants I go, I didn't cross an ocean to show you a card to eat dinner. When if I have a negative test doesn't count, it makes no sense. So I'm like, I'm out of here. So that was the first time I think Americans realized that these systems which are dictatorial, it's not through force. It's the fact that small minded people are tripping over themselves to implement these dictatorships and turn in their neighbors.

[A]

Because that was the first time in my life that I ever was in a situation where you're like, the government's telling me I can't do something.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And we had people who like that was their thing.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Turning people in.

[B]

Yes. And bragging about it.

[A]

Yeah. Like it was like a badge of honor. The phrase Karen came out.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Was born during that time. But like it wasn't over someone barbecuing. It was, you see someone doing something and it was well, I can't do it. So they can't do it.

[B]

Right, Right. And one of the things I learned when I was researching my book the White Pill. So the Stasi were in East Germany and a huge percentage of population were informants. And the woman who wrote this book called Stasiland, she interviewed a former Stasi recruiter. And he goes, we didn't have to put guns to these people's heads. We didn't have to bribe them. They were lonely or they were bored, or they just wanted to feel like they had something over somebody else. And kids were taken away from their families because they were not good East Germans. And in America, you think you're going to call, have someone's kiss taken away, not because they're abusing the kids, but because, like, you don't want. And this was a thing. And this. We saw this during COVID also because there was a huge percentage of Democrats who were like, if you're not vaccinated, was it 40% said your kids should be taken away, even though your kids can't get the disease. And that, I think, was when Americans start to realize the nature of evil. Right.

[A]

And then also gave birth to, I think, NGOs and lobbyists and campaign donation groups that they call it the deep state. I also realized that if you. You can put anybody in a political position, they don't have to be smart. They don't have to be.

[B]

That's exactly right.

[A]

Just. And tell them what to do. You just need a pretty face.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And. And give them the script.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

The dumber the better.

[B]

More obedient.

[A]

Yeah. Because then when they're ever. And you always can tell who it is because whenever they're caught in an interview that they're not prepared for, it's a disaster. Like, we make jokes about it on Gutsco.

[B]

Kamala Harris.

[A]

Yeah. Kamala Harris, aoc. Certain people, when they're pulled, she basically said, Jim Crow invented the Senate. And you're laughing your ass off and you're like, thank. She's never been able to pass a law. And then you look back at it like, wait a minute. She went from bartending.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

Yeah. To a congressman. And her first week she had a Green New Deal. She did that.

[B]

Right.

[A]

From mixing drinks to the Green New Deal. She put that together in a weekend, you know, and you think, how is it. Because we're so spoiled. That can never happen here.

[B]

No, it's two things. A. Americans are spoiled. But I think a lot of our media and like, I meant entertainment, like movies and tv, will tell you that an evil person is going to have a mustache and banging a desk.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And yelling crazy things. It's not. It's that nurse at that hospital and Tyrus, you need that medicine for your mom. And the medicine's right there. And I'm sitting right here, and this is my desk. And can you please. I'm not getting that medicine because I feel like I got something over you. Get on your knees, boy. Get on your knees and kiss my ass. That is what evil is like. And because human beings think. Everyone thinks like they do. A normal person would trip over themselves to give you the medicine. My God, I want to help your mom.

[A]

Yeah. We wouldn't have to ask for it.

[B]

It's time, Right? But there's so many people who have that little bit of power and they will hold on to with every bit of fiber in their being. And that is something alien to the American psyche because.

[A]

And you get. So when I. I see it happen a lot when you're dealing. And you. You made that. That's a perfect example with medicine. But just in general, you'll see it on small, too, where, like, you'll make a reservation for. I always do one extra person. So I have leg room.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

And I go to a restaurant. They're like, where's your fourth person? I go, it's just three of us. Right. I have to get you a different table. No, you don't. I'm a big guy and I like to be able to stretch my legs out. So that's why I do it. I have to check with the manager, a huge thing. Then I start lying. Well, he's running late.

[B]

Right.

[A]

It's because, you know. And then they sit down and then we're already sitting there. And they'll be like, is. Is your person. No, he's not coming. He just called. I had to go through all that to keep my leg room. And then have them aggressively pull the.

[B]

And that's. And that, worst case scenario, you have legroom, right?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Now imagine this is socialized medic. And that one bureaucrat has to decide if someone is getting chemo or if someone's getting an mri. And they're just going to sit there like, oh, I told you to be here at 4. You're at 4 or 5. You're going to have to wait, sit down and shut up. And that one person has that power over you. And you better believe they will flex it. It's terrifying. And again, Americans don't think in those terms.

[A]

No. Because when we think of a bad guy, he's got to be like Skeletor. He's got to be like an over the top man.

[B]

And saying, I'm evil.

[A]

I'm Evil. Yes. And I'm out. No good.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Gives you a good backstory.

[B]

Right?

[A]

You know. Do you watch a lot of movies?

[B]

Somewhat. I think most movies are garbage.

[A]

Yeah, it's been bad. I just watched one last night called the Back Room.

[B]

I just watched it last week. Back rooms, you mean?

[A]

Yeah, back rooms or whatever.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

I. Not sure.

[B]

What do you mean?

[A]

The. The bad guy at the pirate.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. What about it?

[A]

Like, was that his lowest point?

[B]

That's. That shows that narcissists are consumed by their anger. Literally consumed.

[A]

Yeah. Because he. The whole point of the whole thing was like nothing was ever his fault.

[B]

Right?

[A]

Yeah. And then. Then of course, the. He ended up eating himself. I just. When it was chasing her, I was like, I. I'm sorry. I'm not running from a Google eyed. No one legged.

[B]

First of all, you're just jealous that you didn't get cast in that part.

[A]

I gave up on those dreams ever since I started making jokes.

[B]

You're too short.

[A]

I was hot for a while. I was in. No, I was in Purge. I was.

[B]

Oh, you were.

[A]

I was in Preacher.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

I was Hell Guard with an extended role. I was MacGyver. I even had a montage. I did. I did a cool movie with Russell Peters and. And John Malkovich and I had a couple other movies and monster movies and stuff. I was on fire glow on Netflix.

[B]

And then I did love the gorge laser wrestling one.

[A]

Yeah. Oh, yeah. Okay. And then I made two jokes on Fox and they were like, you're gone, bro.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

I was even getting calls out, having an audition and it was just like that.

[B]

Crickets like that.

[A]

Stand up.

[B]

You blew it.

[A]

Well, I made my own shit.

[B]

Yeah, but.

[A]

But I get, I get. And I've let that go. I'm like, you know what? I've got a good career. You can't have it all.

[B]

But the thing about that movie is maybe it's for you because you're a big dude, but if you're going crossing a doorway to some really creepy place,

[A]

I'll tell you what, the doors mess with me. Like all the like.

[B]

But you're not going through those doors. You're going back home. You're like, I don't like this.

[A]

I wouldn't have. As soon as my hand went in here, I'm like, nope, nope.

[B]

I do not mess with demons.

[A]

I'm boarding up the door.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

And I quit.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

I'm out. I felt the one part. Okay. Homegirl was the bravest woman I've ever seen in A movie.

[B]

Why is she following him in there?

[A]

She ran after him.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You saw the blood trail.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

He got snatched up and she ran after him.

[B]

That part made the director's 20, so.

[A]

Okay. Because I would have been like. I mean, we're just dating. I mean, it's not like we have kids. I'd have been like.

[B]

And also you're in this other dimension

[A]

where, you know, they weren't back up, though.

[B]

No, no, no, no, no. Yeah.

[A]

I knew when he had the rope on, he was.

[B]

Well, of course we all knew that. Yeah.

[A]

But.

[B]

But I thought it was a. I recommend. It was original.

[A]

Yeah. I'm a big fan of. So was. What was another one that was.

[B]

Had another obsession is the other one.

[A]

I watched it. It's. It's pretty good.

[B]

Okay, I'll watch it.

[A]

I don't. I won't do that to you. Another one was barbarian.

[B]

Okay. I don't haven't seen it.

[A]

You got to see barbarian.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

It's the same kind of outside the box.

[B]

Okay. I like.

[A]

It's weird that. Why is it that horror movies have become the best movies?

[B]

You know why? Because I think a lot of horror movies are coming out of Japan and Korea.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So they're gonna be different for the American sensibility. And the Americans are gonna take that sensibility and make it something Americans haven't seen.

[A]

Because there's one called Hope.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

That's coming out of. I think South Korea looks nuts.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

Absolutely nuts.

[B]

Look at the ring. Remember the ring?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Remember the Grudge was another one. Those are things Americans hadn't seen before and they remade them for American audiences.

[A]

This director put everything together. Aliens, horror, spell. He put it all into one. And there's these crazy. And I saw the trailer for it and of course the American critics were shitting all over it. And I was like, up. Gonna pick that one up.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

As soon as it comes in. Like. Because apparently at the film festival they weren't prepared for when it came out. Now. Cause I did a movie at the Toronto Film Festival where. With Luke Evans. And in that one, it was a horror movie and the director, my character, I was a giant weird. And when I'm fighting the little tiny English guy, he got handcuffs through my mouth. Right. It was a pretty cool death scene. Right. And then he guts me.

[B]

Ooh. Okay.

[A]

And then climbs inside me and hides. And then my.

[B]

Like Luke Skywalker.

[A]

Yeah. I'm a tauntau.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

And my team for bad guys were very close knit. They didn't leave Me there. They brought me back to their base. Because that's what you do when you're a bad guy, right? And your top muscle gets moaked. You bring him home. You don't just leave him there. That's not the bad guy way.

[B]

No men left behind.

[A]

No, they bring me home. I'm now in the garage of our lair and basically give birth to this dude, climbs out of me, and then he, of course, kills everybody. Because it was the first bad guy, bad guy horror movie. But at the Toronto Film Festival, it was a lot of, like. Oh, like. Like, holy. Like. And that was the first time. I don't like the sound. Do you. I don't like the sound of my voice. Do you like the sound of your voice?

[B]

No, I hate it. I think it's my worst quality.

[A]

I went to the premiere of it in the movie theater, and the first time I talked, I was like, oh, my God. I. I should never. I should not be allowed.

[B]

What do you think? What do you think? Your voice sounds like marbles.

[A]

Oh, Like, I just.

[B]

Mine's too nasal. Let me. Marble. Oh, I see what you're saying. Little marble mouth.

[A]

Yeah. Like.

[B]

Yeah, I can see it. I can see it. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

And a little higher than I imagined.

[B]

Okay. It's still pretty low, though.

[A]

Yeah. But I was like.

[B]

You thought it was gonna be the James Earl Jones.

[A]

Yeah, I was. That's what I was going.

[B]

Because you're a big dude. Yeah.

[A]

I was like, yeah, yeah. And the whole time I'm looking around and I'm look. I'm looking at the. Waiting for someone to be like, you hear the sound of this mother?

[B]

It's like Mike Tyson.

[A]

Yeah. Like. Yeah. I wonder if Mike knows. He sounds like he knows. Yeah, he knows now, but he's laughing all the way to the bank.

[B]

No, he was on who's the Boss? Remember? There's a joke about that.

[A]

Yeah, he's. Well, he's a philosopher now. Isn't that crazy? He's like Socrates and shit.

[B]

Like, I don't think he's.

[A]

He says some profound shit.

[B]

That's true.

[A]

He really does. And he, like, says stuff that, like, people didn't see coming. He talks about things that people won't talk about, like the loss of his kid. The way he articulated it and talked about. He was in the hospital yelling and screaming, and he saw another family who didn't have money, who lost. He's like, who the hell do I think? Like, some of his interviews where he just, like, opens up, you're like, Man.

[B]

I think people appreciate to what extent he is a extremely talented. Screw loose. Got screwed over. He was a kid. He was an absolute kid when all this happened. It's gonna do a number on anybody. I mean, look at Britney, you know what I mean? Like, so I think people recognize what a fascinating figure he was.

[A]

And he's able to talk about it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

He's not Corey Feldmanning it up.

[B]

He feels. I feel like he's centered, like he's made his peace with his.

[A]

Yeah, him and his demons had.

[B]

That's right. Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

And it usually happens if you make it to 50. 50 is like the magic number.

[B]

Especially someone like him. You would expect to be in a coffin at a younger age.

[A]

Exactly. Or. Or six feet under. A prisoner.

[B]

Yeah, Yeah. A nut house or something.

[A]

Yeah. You know, so when you get to 50, you kind of like, okay, I made it this far.

[B]

It's the pigeons.

[A]

Yeah, he has pigeons. I have fish.

[B]

Oh, what kind of. My first job was writing for an aquarium magazine. What kind of fish do you have?

[A]

I breed flower horns and.

[B]

Oh, those are fun.

[A]

And I'm obsessed.

[B]

Well, you like flowers.

[A]

I didn't always like flower horns.

[B]

You like flower horns because they're like you. They're hybrids.

[A]

I like the hybrid. They're very good. And you can genetically alter. You have to wait.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Because I keep crossing them with other stuff because they get. The only. I don't like about flower horns is that they. A lot of times the males are infertile because they use parrots.

[B]

Okay. Yeah, yeah.

[A]

The compass or whatever. I'm not a fan. And I like crossing them back with, like, Midas is okay. Yeah, yeah. You get a bulkier Because I have one up in my office.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Does it have the huge, huge knot?

[B]

Yeah. Okay.

[A]

But as long as they have the red eyes or whatever. But frontosas were my. Are my first look.

[B]

Oh, those are so fun.

[A]

I love front.

[B]

How long does. How they're. They take a long time to mature, don't they?

[A]

For.

[B]

Right. Because they're not that fast growers.

[A]

Well, they're also. One of the problems is they're a deep lake fish.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

So it's big rocks and stuff. And, like, getting them to breed. I got. I'll show you a video. I got tons of pictures, but you got to recreate the rainy season.

[B]

So, like, you got to lower the water or raise it.

[A]

I raise it, but one of the things I do is I have a TV next to my tanks. I'll just run thunderstorms.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

For like a week. To get them, to get them going,

[B]

you have to increase like this. The lower, the lower the ph.

[A]

Increase the temperature.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

But that kind of is a grow. But I have. And then I got hooked on Vinostradus's and It's a hybrid blood 7, it's called.

[B]

It's across.

[A]

They're. They're monstrous. The only problem is, is that I've got to the point where I'm like six generations in and they're all super aggressive.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Because I keep them in big schools and I got two 600 gallon aquariums. I got a lot of. But.

[B]

And how do you do water changes in something that big?

[A]

It's. Well, it's kind of the same premise. You know, you just hook it up to the sink, you drain it. It's more, it's more of a process.

[B]

Okay. Yeah.

[A]

It's longer, but it's like, it's also. You have to do less. I also over filtrate.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

So like I have, I'm. I have the trickle filters, the sumps.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

And like half the sump is full of plants, which helps the thing. And then I also hook. FX6 is up.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

When I get ready to do a change and stuff. So I. If the tank is 100 gallons, my filtration is 300.

[B]

Okay. Okay.

[A]

Like I'll spend the money and have super filtration. So you can have. Because when they're by the. If you put. And you know this, any fish you put by itself, whether it's a goldfish, that whole tanks its territory.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

And will murder anything that comes into it. If they can't set up territories, then they'll kind of hang in schools.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And then you have some monsters. I got Jags, Magnesis, Oscars. I kind of slowed on a little bit. But right now I have so many different hybrids. The blood sevens are awesome. There's the funny thing is I live in Florida. Like this weekend I took my son fishing and we're fishing and he catches and pulls out a giant Barb Midas. And I was like, you know how much I had to pay for one of these?

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

And I see all the vinostratus because I guess in Florida there used to be a giant fish breeding farm, but they would send out to all this hurricane, flood.

[B]

Same with the pythons.

[A]

Yep. Everything's loose. I don't buy the whole evasive species. I, I can't. I think it's, I think it's a hustle. I Think it's. I think it's like, first of all, for a human being, this is the

[B]

craziest tinfoil hat I've ever heard. Let me hear this one.

[A]

For a human being to talk shit about evasive species doing damage. We are the most worst evasive species in the history of the universe.

[B]

We're awesome.

[A]

Everywhere we go, we shit up.

[B]

That's.

[A]

Anything that can live in proximity to us, my hat's off to them.

[B]

You sound like aoc.

[A]

No, no, because it's true.

[B]

You. This is cotton.

[A]

There are other snakes in Florida. Alligators and crocodiles eat them.

[B]

Right?

[A]

They. We have a. Because we live. Because we are people. Rat populations are quadrupled.

[B]

Of course. They're insane.

[A]

Yes, Insane. So adding another species that eats them and helps keep the population down. Yeah, but it's not a bad thing.

[B]

It's taking out those deer that's the problem.

[A]

1. One python takes out a deer. We have a deer are overpopulated.

[B]

No, but there's those deer that are indigenous only to Florida that are in trouble now.

[A]

For a python to eat a deer. Yeah, he. It will take him 30 years to get there.

[B]

No, it's. Sure. But there's so many of them.

[A]

There's not. That's another bullshit. It's more that NGO bullshit. Like, Republicans do it too. They just do it on shit like this, okay. Where like, they need all this money and they'll catch one or two, and it's always the same thing. And there's. We have alligators. And if you stop hunting crocodiles. We had crocodiles there, too. They're actually making a pretty good comeback right now.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But there you have two apex predators that get them before they get there. If they're. Pythons aren't a problem. They absolutely blows my mind when I hear that shit. Because it's like, you act like people step out of their houses and there's a Burmese python sitting in the yard.

[B]

I have hanging in my house, Alex Jones's tinfoil hat. And this. Hold on.

[A]

This is my tinfoil hat.

[B]

This is my favorite conspiracy theory that the Burmese pythons are not, like, they're

[A]

not a big deal. It's really not a big deal. Like, we have chameleons everywhere. We have the giant chameleons, the anoles.

[B]

They're this big.

[A]

What can they do? They have the. The veld chameleons that get like this.

[B]

Wait, they're. They localized now in Florida?

[A]

Yeah. And the reason why you don't have any more green anoles.

[B]

Camilla's are going to.

[A]

Yeah, they eat them. But then also their cousins, the brown anoles are cannibalistic little shit.

[B]

Sure, sure.

[A]

And they've taken over. But it's kind of like the. How it works. When I was growing up in California, we had red squirrels everywhere.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Then the gray squirrels just kind of.

[B]

Sure. And the chipmunks are getting trouble. Yes. Yeah.

[A]

And it's just kind of the way this shit works. We. If something makes it. Because here's the deal. Something gets on a raft. Look at Galapagos Island. The iguanas, when they showed up, there was something else. There is gone now.

[B]

It's just kind of necessarily true.

[A]

It's kind of how it works. Mother Nature figures it out.

[B]

No, but that's. I mean, look at the. There's something in.

[A]

There's like what. We've had seven mass extinctions on this planet.

[B]

Yeah, but I mean things like the.

[A]

In.

[B]

In New Zealand there's something called the kakapo, which is the.

[A]

Yeah, the little green parrot.

[B]

Yeah, right, that little big. It's the biggest parrot.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And they can't fly. But the rats were killing them.

[A]

Yeah. Because of the rats have. Rats are next.

[B]

Rats are the problem.

[A]

They're next.

[B]

What do you mean they're next?

[A]

Like when we're gone, rats are next.

[B]

Oh yeah, for sure. Yeah. That's not even a question.

[A]

Cockroaches. Yeah, one of the. But they're.

[B]

They're gonna fight. It's gonna be Republicans, Democrats.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

The rats are the cockroaches.

[A]

They'll probably work together for a while.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

There'll be a sex scandal.

[B]

They'll have a balanced budget.

[A]

They'll figure it out. They'll work together and then somebody will. It'll be like. But I think the rats are. Rats are next because they're getting bigger, smarter. They're. They're now immune to a lot of the poisons. Especially in New York.

[B]

One of. One of the scariest things I've ever heard in my life. I was walking home late one night, like four in the morning, Lori side. And there was a garbage bag. And there's a rat that he eaten its way in, it couldn't figure its way out. And it's pounding against the garbage bag, screaming, and you could see its little paws and it was like something out of a horror movie.

[A]

You just kept walking.

[B]

Yeah, of course I kept walking.

[A]

I'm not gonna. In California, ground squirrels have turned carnivorous.

[B]

No.

[A]

Yeah. So the little ground squirrels that you see that they're now eating, they're eating other rodents.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[A]

It's like Mother Nature is awesome.

[B]

Oh, yeah. You don't tell me.

[A]

It's all. I. I scroll through. I'm obsessed with, like. I judge people on chimpanzee behavior. There's a Netflix. I don't recommend documentaries, but it's chimp chimp crazy. No, no, no. That was hilarious.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

She had. She deserved everything she got.

[B]

Shit.

[A]

Dumbass.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

You think? Because you castrated him, so.

[B]

Oh, she did castrate.

[A]

He's a sensit being. Like, he's gonna remember I went to the vet with you.

[B]

I know.

[A]

I came back, my shit's gone.

[B]

At the very least, he's gonna be horny even if he's castrated.

[A]

And then they go back in. I love at the end, when she comes back, her finger's gone because she just wouldn't, like, let enough alone. But, like, Chimp Empire is on Netflix, and it was like in. In. I think it's Nagogo, Africa, there is a super chimp. They call it civilization. There's a hundred of them.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Usually they're. The max is 50, right? So they've made this super colony colony that has taken over. But in the middle of that, eight of the males said this. Couldn't agree, split form their own. So there's three factions, okay? The one up north, which the north group doesn't mess with anyone. They stay in their little zone. But then there's the central, which is the big one. And at the time, their top. Their top guy. There was a little infighting. This one young one, Abrams, was trying to take over from Jackson, but his. He had formed an alliance with like, eight. They were like cousins and brothers. When they split, he was supposed to go with them. He didn't.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

He stayed and became alpha. So they've wanted to kill him. Like, this is a crazy. And so they're up to like, it's 20. They have 24 males in this colony, which run everything. And then this other one has eight, but the one with eight, there's their setups different. They have an alpha, but, like, everyone has a role.

[B]

Okay?

[A]

There's no infighting, there's no attacking. They all work together.

[B]

Like a bonobos.

[A]

Yeah. Even the. Well, the bonobos, they solve everything by having sex.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And these guys raid. They just keep raiding each other back and forth. If someone's by themselves, they murder them. And I'm like. You see especially in the big group, more behavior that reminds you of people in the entertainment business, how they just. Or just in general, how they're sizing everyone up. They make deals, they're plotting, they're stabbing each other in the back. And I watched this. I think it's only four episodes. I go to bed to it pretty much every night because I'm. Every time I watch it, I see a different behavior, and I see a lot of my own. Sometimes I'm like, man, like, when you're. You want to be. It's not in the cards for you. And instead of accepting it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, you like. They take it out on other things. Like, the female chimps got it bad. They got it bad because they. One of the things this one group does, they eat everything, right. Other monkeys and stuff. But they never do it when they're hungry, whenever they have a surplus of fruits, when certain trees, fig trees and synphilices, it's like a spicy orange. Whenever they have big blooms, that's when they turn it up and start eating everything. Because when they kill something and they give it to their. They. The alpha gives it to his allies, and then if somebody's on the outs, he won't give them.

[B]

But I think that's also kind of the problem with America is that when.

[A]

Yeah, it's very slight, similar.

[B]

If you don't have problems, you're gonna find problems.

[A]

Exactly. And that's what these guys do. But Abrams, he's handing everybody out. And Abrams is like a top five chimp. And he was like, nope, you ain't getting shit. And he gave it to a female. And she was like, having. She walked off a little thing. And then the guy was like, I don't think she's gonna hold on to that very long.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

And then he came up and beat the. Out of her. Took it from her. But it was like, showing how. How the group works. Like, once they. Once you form a group, you will. And they. They said, well, unlike humans, chimpanzees, when they. They're territorial and once you're out of the group, they'll kill you. They won't work together. And I'm like, that's very like you. That's more like us than not like us. Like, if it's not in your tribe, right. It's foreign racism. All that stupid shit originally was, if it doesn't look like me, it's a threat or how many. I'm not sharing my resources with them.

[B]

I hear people like, in housing projects being, like, mugged.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It's like, well, she should have voted Democrat. I'm like, let's suppose she's a leftist. You're saying because she flicked the wrong lever, you're reading her out of the human race.

[A]

Well, so crazy. They make it easier. Like the whole. Like the Charlie Kirk shit.

[B]

Oh, yeah, right. There you go. Yeah.

[A]

They. They. A man was murdered for his opinions.

[B]

Right.

[A]

That's insane to me. And to digest it. Well, it was dangerous. What is. No, the bullet was dangerous.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

If you didn't like what he had to say, scroll left.

[B]

I was on the show the day after. I remember that. I got people to laugh. That was really.

[A]

Yeah. That was not a fun show to do.

[B]

I had two jokes I didn't say, one of which was it's a good thing RFK isn't here to see this. He hated assassinations.

[A]

Yeah. That was probably a good. Not for that night. You do that a lot. I'll see you go.

[B]

They cut my jokes all the time.

[A]

Yeah. It's. It's a point.

[B]

I don't blame him. I don't blame him.

[A]

I've been on the chopping block many a night.

[B]

The first time I was back on Fox after a long time. I'm with you. And you call Gutfeld the N word twice.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

I'm like, what is going on?

[A]

And then you watch it on Saturday. Where is it? Where is it? Because he was. He was trying to make the point of using the word Nazi.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And I was like, it's the same thing.

[B]

Right?

[A]

It is.

[B]

I mean, it's out.

[A]

It's the same. It's. It was the N word for white people.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Is calling them a Nazi because it's indefensible and.

[B]

Right.

[A]

You're calling them the worst. What we have decided. The worst human being on the planet.

[B]

Not even human. Like subhuman.

[A]

Subhuman.

[B]

Subhuman. Yeah.

[A]

Is a Nazi.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

There is not a lower form of. Maybe you could make the argument for isis. But it was. Or somebody. But it was. There's always a sympathizer.

[B]

That's.

[A]

There is not a sympathizer for the Nazi.

[B]

Well, there wasn't until recently.

[A]

Well, now it's because the water. You've watered the word down.

[B]

That. That's. Yeah.

[A]

It doesn't mean anything anymore. You call somebody Nazi now. It's a joke.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Kind of like how the N word ended up becoming a joke. We made. Became a sign of brotherhood. Opposed to. You took something that was meant. Wretched. You made a joke.

[B]

You know that joke. What's the worst thing you call a black person starting with N ending with our neighbor.

[A]

Neighbor.

[B]

You never heard that?

[A]

Yeah, I've lived it. Dang, man. Where can we get this book? I can knock this out in, like, two days, man. Anarchishandbook.com Anarchishhandbook.com Yes. Glows in the dark.

[B]

It glows in the dark.

[A]

Legendary Michael Malice. You're going to be on Gutfeld. You're a staple there. I'm just realizing you have dynamite and lapel. This is like. Every time I look at this, I have a feeling that this is the type of book that you have to read a few times.

[B]

Well, yeah, It's a collection of essays about the history of anarchism. And it'll teach you to hate the government like nobody else.

[A]

You got some profound essays in here. Hubert Spencer, Max Shriner. Oh, Leo Tool story. Benjamin Tucker. And I love this picture. Like, this is. This is.

[B]

That's the people.

[A]

Gangster. The people.

[B]

I'll tell my North Korean stories another time. You'll love them.

[A]

Yes, please come back.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

Recertification of. I just. Like I said, man, you're an anarchist. But you're. You're my favorite anarchist.

[B]

I'll take it. Thank you so much, man.

[A]

And talking wrest. Oh, I love you, man. You're the best.

[B]

You too.

[A]

All right, bro. Well, let's go get in trouble tonight.

[B]

Let's do it.

[A]

All right.