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- [00:00]
Apple Watch Narrator
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- [00:30]
Ryan Graves
They noticed a black triangle off the nose of their aircraft that within seconds flew directly over their aircraft, nose to nose. We said, holy smokes, what is going on here? And we could see what it was. A dark gray or a black cube inside of a clear sphere.
- [00:48]
Interviewer (possibly a podcast or show host)
I agree that this is a national security issue and a safety issue. Ryan, thanks for coming on today. I'm excited. I know obviously you are connected to that iconic video that everyone has been watching. I think it's the official montage video of every extraterrestrial ufo, unidentified whatever, whatever phenomenon everywhere. But before we even go there, I just, I'd like to get into your origin story because you're a pretty legit dude, you know, like, it's like your resume is impeccable. So when people throw into question, I always fire back with, he gains nothing from this type of notoriety other than just telling the truth. And I think that's a very honorable thing. And integrity still means something. So for those people who don't know, Ryan Graves is a former US Navy lieutenant and an FA18F Super Hornet pilot. Just that name alone, that's one of the badass names of all time. Super Hornet. Not just regular Hornet and the Hornet. Anyone knows anything about Mother Nature, Hornets don't mess around.
- [02:01]
Ryan Graves
All right.
- [02:01]
Interviewer (possibly a podcast or show host)
Who served for more than a decade, including deployments supporting Operation Enduring Freedom and Operation Inherent Resolve. He joined the Navy in 2009 and later flew with VFA 11 off the east coast, where his squadron began detecting unknown objects in the training airspace after a radar upgrade in 2014. So, okay, what? Was it always something as a kid that you wanted to be a pilot? Was that something that was always there? Did it come later in life?
- [02:29]
Ryan Graves
Came later in life, you know, and thanks for having me on, by the way. Happy to be here. It wasn't until I was almost done college when I was realizing that what I was studying just wasn't giving me that spark, wasn't exciting to me. And I just thought about what would be the most exciting, transformational thing I could do. And, you know, what came into my Head was going out and trying to fly fighters for the military.
- [02:52]
Interviewer (possibly a podcast or show host)
What was the dream before that? What was the plan before that?
- [02:56]
Ryan Graves
Well, I was getting a degree in mechanical and fire protection engineering. You know, I wanted to be technical. I didn't know where the fit was. I knew I was excited about the future and motivated about technology and pushing us forward. And, you know, I thought engineering was the way to do that. But eventually I said, hey, I didn't want to just learn about this. I wanted to be the one pushing the buttons and doing the thing, operating these machines. And the coolest machine I could think of was just that, an F18 that land out on aircraft carriers.
- [03:25]
Interviewer (possibly a podcast or show host)
What was it like the first time that you sat in a plane like and you're going to take your first flight? What was take us through? I mean, I can. I get butterflies, you know, walking down a ramp in the WLB every night before I went out. I can only imagine the size of the butterflies in your chest. Was that something that we were. Obviously there was some, some. A little bit of hesitation, but extreme excitement at the same time.
- [03:49]
Ryan Graves
Absolutely. You know, there's a few different platforms. We get into a small propeller aircraft, this orange and white jet right here, and then the gray F18 that you see behind my other shoulder. And you know, the first time I got into that, that orange and white one, the T45, that's the first time you're really actually in a jet. Something that you can't go out, rent from an airport, spend a lot of money on and try it out. That was a unique responsibility. That was really flying Navy equipment that was very powerful and could do a lot of different things. And, you know, for me it was, you know, myself and the colleagues, the students that I flew with at that time, many have spent their entire lives waiting for that moment. And it was quite surreal to be in that position to feel what it feels like, to hear what it hears like and know that you have those. Those controls at your hand and that's your aircraft. It's. It's a really unique experience. And, you know, it's not one that I lost almost every time I got into the F18. You know, know, there was always this incredible moment of appreciation where it's just like, God, I can't believe I get to sit in this thing and do this.
- [04:51]
Interviewer (possibly a podcast or show host)
Now, forgive this question, because the average person will never know as flying planes, they drive cars, right? How is there any similarities to where someone who can. Is trying to imagine and their only point of reference is they drive a Car. Obviously, the. The mechanics involved in flying the plane are completely different, but in terms of that feeling of being inside it, is there anything comparable?
- [05:19]
Ryan Graves
You know, I wish I could tell you that there was something that I could point people to and tell them to give it a try, but, you know, there's really just nothing like it. Being on the ground and sitting there, you've got your forward, your back, your left and right. But when you're in a jet like that, you quite literally control gravity, right? You can put that jet in any position you want. You can pull as many GS as you want. You can float weightlessly as if you're flying skydiving, you know, just by nosing the jet over and letting it float down. So it's a really hard, hard thing to. To put in the words or compare to something else, but it's just this freedom of gravity that you really can't experience anywhere else, not even in space. Right. You can't purposely pull 5, 6, 7 GS in space. You're stuck there floating. So it's. It's really a total command of gravity, and that's what you're moving around, controlling those energy states and putting it where you want.
- [06:07]
Interviewer (possibly a podcast or show host)
Now, there's been a lot of changes in our technology. Now, you got started in the, early in the 2000s. What has been the biggest improvement for pilots over your course of your career? Obviously, we know radar opened up some doors, but in terms of. As we continue to improve, what do you think? What was most advantageous to you guys?
- [06:35]
Ryan Graves
Yeah, you know, you have your. Your speed and your. Your turn rate and all the stuff that makes the jet pretty fancy and quote unquote, makes it a good fighter. But at the end of the day, none of that is useful if the pilot has no idea what he's looking at or where he's going or who he's targeting. Right. So these radar upgrades, the way that we bring all this data together and make it so it's easily understandable by the pilot so that he can act on not just maybe one aircraft that he's fighting, but perhaps half a dozen, a dozen aircraft that he can maintain control of and prosecute when needed. Those are the biggest changes. It really kind of gives us that God's eye view and that God mode, if you will be able to reach out and touch people that otherwise we'd never even see. Wow.
- [07:17]
Interviewer (possibly a podcast or show host)
So, okay, so obviously we're gonna. We're gonna get into the. The phenomena that you saw on the air, but in terms of engaging Other nations and pilots and stuff like that. Was it, Did America always, did you guys always have superior crafts or is it, is it pretty much, you know, because you always, we hear about the military like when you're dealing with say a Russian MiG or different countries, Iran or Middle Eastern pilots or whatever, was there the level of, of sophistication? You guys were also dealing with that too.
- [07:54]
Ryan Graves
You know, it kind of ebbed and flowed, right? You know, started World War II, the Korean War, up to the Vietnam War. There was a lot of parity in the aircraft and the pilots from these other nations that we were fighting. And in fact, you know, the Vietnam War itself, that led to the creation of Top Gun to ensure that we could maintain the skills that we needed to ensure that we had a better man in the box. Not too long after that war, our aircraft technology continued to increase and improve. Our ability to put sensors and long range weapons on the aircraft outpaced our adversaries. But that's ebbed a bit now with other nations such as China bringing forward advanced fifth generation fighters and long range missile systems that can jeopardize our aircrafts. It's not as one sided as it used to be. And it comes back down to the man in the box, right?
- [08:49]
Interviewer (possibly a podcast or show host)
Well, speaking of the man in the box, obviously we hear a lot about drones now and there was, I heard in circles that the drones were eventually going to change aviation and pilots would be in pods opposed to being in the air. But I just don't think in my opinion that a drone can do what a pilot can do in terms of making human decisions. And the things that split decision, things that a program or a guy with a remote control might not be able to do the same.
- [09:18]
Ryan Graves
You know, there is certainly a lot of things that advanced autonomous vehicles can do better than humans. And this is an area that, that I've worked in professionally since I've gotten out of the military in 2019. Advanced autonomy for autonomous wingmen and other technologies like that. So believe you me when I say there are some certain things that they can do a lot better. They certainly can. But at the end of the day, the decision making is still held with the pilot, with the mission commander. And that's not planning on leaving. We call it man in the loop or man on the loop. And that means that we are very much part of that decision making. So we're really looking to offload certain scalable attacks, right? Say hey, let's prosecute something in this area and allow you to go into those dangerous areas. And do it and maybe lose half those aircraft but still achieve the mission, whereas we wouldn't want to put a man fighter in that position. And we can hang them back and allow them to play quarterback out there.
- [10:17]
Interviewer (possibly a podcast or show host)
Oh, that's. Yeah, you know what? That's. That's pretty cool. So. All right, I wanna. When was the first time that you were flying that you noticed, I guess, the. The fun word. I walk, I watch religiously. Skinwalker Ranch. So the. The term phenomena is. Seems to be the word whenever we're referring to whatever it is that we're. That is up there in the. In the space. When was it that first time you noticed it? Was it just. I mean, I had to be just amazing or. Or was it confusing? Was it scary? Like what. You know, I always think from movie perspectives, you know, like, this is just an object and immediately pop. Like, whoa, it's an alien. Or the other side has a technology that we're not aware of.
- [11:04]
Ryan Graves
Yeah. You know, for us, when we saw it the first times, I'd say it was more like the. The prelude in the movie where they're kind of getting the crowd ready to understand something weird's happening. Right. So we had just come back from combat deployment in 2012, and when we did so we started to upgrade our radar systems to a much more capable system called the APG79. And when we did that, you know, it took about eight months for every jet to get updated. So it was a little bit of a process. But you'd fly a jet, perhaps with an older radar in the morning and perhaps a new one in the evening. And you would notice when you're flying with this new radar, that we're seeing many more objects out in front of us in our working areas. And we'd be seeing with the older radar, even perhaps our wingman would have an older radar and they wouldn't see them. And so first it was just like, oh, hey, what is this? You know, new radar, new software, weird issue. Probably some kind of weird hardware or software issue. Perhaps it's detecting things that aren't really there. But what we were seeing were very high quality tracks. Right. Our system says this is good enough for us to shoot on. And they were. And unfortunately, they weren't behaving like a normal aircraft or just like a radar error. They were maneuvering in ways that were, you know, presumably controlled. They were exhibiting high accelerations and high speeds or very low speeds, stationary. So just not the blips that you would expect from a radar era. So at first Our natural reaction was to do what pilots do best, which is to just put it in a box and kind of ignore it and say, hey, that's a software issue that we'll figure out in the future. But eventually we got close enough to these where the other sensors on our jet, such as our camera system, which is linked to our radar. So if we're looking at this object with a radar now, we're close enough now our camera sees something. And that's exactly what happened. We saw that there were objects there. They were putting off heat energy, infrared energy. And then the rest of our sensors light up as well. It's like, okay, this isn't just some software error with one new piece of equipment. This is all our sensors now telling us that there's something here and doing so with a very stable track, we would assume it's a real object. And so to kind of come to more of that head. When it came to a head in the squadron is when just a couple of weeks after realizing these weren't software errors, two aircraft from my squadron were heading out to that working area right at the specific GPS point in altitude where we enter our areas. As they enter that area in close formation, One of these objects went right in between the two aircraft, about 50ft from the lead aircraft. And that was the first time, you know, we said, holy smokes, what is going on here? And we could see what it was. We could see what it looked like with our own eyes. And it just was reported as a dark gray or a black cube inside of a clear sphere.
- [14:04]
Interviewer (possibly a podcast or show host)
Now, when you. And when you see that, you see a spear, dark cube inside of a spear, and the size, like, your best guess, your best estimate, because they look based on. They look a lot smaller than the jets. But again, that could be an illusion. So I'm not. You know, when you see it also, you don't know how far. At least us laymen who are watching this stuff, size of the softball basketball, or are we talking hot air balloon size?
- [14:31]
Ryan Graves
Like, yeah, it's a good point. We don't always know how big objects are, especially when they're, like, not something we're used to seeing. Right. If you see a 737 flying, like, okay, I can probably guess how far away it is, but because this one's so close, they can make a good estimate right between the two jets, and they estimate to be about 5 to 15ft in diameter.
- [14:50]
Interviewer (possibly a podcast or show host)
So that's not small. I mean, it's not tiny. I mean, it's not insignificant.
- [14:54]
Ryan Graves
No, I Mean that's basically car to car to, well, call it a large truck to a motorcycle size.
- [15:02]
Interviewer (possibly a podcast or show host)
And, and the. Their ability to move diagonally up and just kind of. It almost seems the very opposite of our technology. When you.
- [15:12]
Ryan Graves
Yeah, you know, after I had our experiences or. Excuse me, let me back a little bit. After we had that near miss air, we asked other people in the squadron, you know, what else they had seen. There was a little mini investigation done. It turns out there are four other near misses that went unreported just in the previous month in our squadron alone from similar objects. Metallic spheres. Elongated spheres. Cubes and spheres. And yes, I mean these things have been reported to zip up behind a jet, essentially stop in midair and then re. Accelerate once the jet re. Approaches to take a look at it. I mean, so it's almost like they want to be seen in some sense.
- [15:54]
Interviewer (possibly a podcast or show host)
You know. Now when you talk about the Virginia beach, which is the. That's the famous one. Right. And, and it wasn't. And you had yourself explained that it wasn't just a one off, it was a real repeatable pattern. And when you say pattern, you mean like when they did appear, it was pretty consistent their movements or timing wise.
- [16:17]
Ryan Graves
The pattern was that they were out there pretty much every day. Oh wow. We would see them, you know, we'd launch first thing in the morning, 5, 6am we'd see them out there and we'd be flying at night, you know, the next crew at 11pm or midnight and. And we'd still see them out there. There always seemed to be about three to eight of them working in the area, not necessarily next to each other, but just kind of independently doing their own thing in a general area. And they kind of fell into three different, you know, kinematic profiles, if you will. They'd either be completely stationary, often, you know, very, very high winds 120, 140 knots. We'd see them about 250 to 350 knots, sometimes just circling or in a racetrack, extended racetrack pattern or just kind of meandering along in a general direction, like inconsistent altitudes, inconsistent headings, very fuel inefficient kind of maneuvering, you know, against the wind, you know, at still, you know, 120, 150 knots. And then sometimes you see them supersonic, at least in my experience. I was going due east ish, heading out deeper over the water when they're going at high speed. And so they would, you know, bounce around between these different velocity profiles. And sure, we have platforms that can do Each one of those, but not to do all three of them all day. I mean, the fuel requirements, something like that is insane. I mean, when we take off from the ground, you might see how we have this pod underneath our jet that's essentially a fuel tank. When we take off from the ground and go to altitude, we've just burned through all that gas in that center tank, you know, like, so to think that we can just stop and go up and down and do all these different things at extremely high speeds continuously for hours and hours, that's well beyond what we could do.
- [18:03]
Interviewer (possibly a podcast or show host)
So. Okay. Do you feel that when you were looking at them because you had a curiosity, did it, did it feel like a. Like that the object was investigating you? Did it feel like there was a living presence or was it more like watching a comet phenomenon or a light show phenomenon or, you know what I'm saying? Like, there's a, there's got to be a feeling of. When you saw those things moves, did you, did you feel a almost observable presence back at you? Like there isn't just as interested in you as them? Was there ever a thing where you went left, they mimicked or behaviors and stuff like that, where you were like, you know what? This isn't just a phenomenon. This feels like a piloted vehicle of some sort, or there was somebody. There's an intelligent intelligence to it that's interacting to us. Did you feel that presence or was it more just kind of.
- [18:53]
Ryan Graves
No, that's a good question. So during those, that time period, we were initially having these issues that I didn't have that, that feeling because they're always seemingly operating somewhat distant from us. You know, they weren't really, like, messing with, per se. We would get closer to them and try to look for them and that. But there was not so much them approaching us as I've, you know, leaned into this more and I've talked about this publicly. A lot of people reach out with their own experiences, especially, you know, military pilots. And there's many, many cases of these things interacting with F18s in a way that seems almost, I won't use the word playful, but purposeful. Right. Where they're specifically flying by jets, getting in, in their faces, if you will, stopping, waiting for the jet to re. Approach, and then taking off at an angle, you know, away from their flight path. So it seems like they are absolutely kind of interacting and aware in that sense. From the, for the cases I've been
- [19:49]
Interviewer (possibly a podcast or show host)
hearing more recently, because I, I, you always want, like I said, it just it feels like when I was growing up, when I was a kid, you know, the UFO phenomenon was, it was something that if somebody did talk about it, there was a stigmatism, that they were crazy or weird, you know, or the, it was always, the abduction was always in the middle of Arkansas, you know, on a Wednesday night outside a juke joint or something. But, but that stigma, even as technology improves, that stigmatism was still there. And you think that's a lot of reason because these are, you guys are highly educated, decorated men of honor and integrity. And when you think the fear was coming out and saying there's something out there that we're not really sure what it is, but it's definitely out there, was that just too, too far of a bridge for a lot of pilots to, to want to walk across?
- [20:46]
Ryan Graves
Yeah, absolutely. You know, I think the, the, the incentives are a little different in the military and the commercial pilot world, but especially in the military where, you know, your reputation operate, you know, that's everything. You know, when you're in your squadron and you're on an aircraft carrier. So to be the guy that's, you know, kind of off mission and focused on something that may just not be anything, especially if other people haven't had those encounters, it's not going to benefit your career, your reputation at all. So there just really wasn't any incentive to do it. Especially you think back when I came forward in the 2018, 2019 time period where there wasn't this cultural support, if you will, to discuss this seriously. It very much was, you know, an X File themed, you know, conversation. And, you know, I've been through that as well, giving interviews with X Files playing in the background. But, you know, ultimately we don't know what these objects are. What we do know is that they're operating in places they really shouldn't be and they're posing a very serious risk to the pilots and the aircraft that are operating where they're supposed to be. Are those foreign assets? Are they something else in some sense? It really doesn't matter if we're not even willing to talk about it so we can mitigate the issue that they're posing.
- [21:58]
Interviewer (possibly a podcast or show host)
Because we would, if, if you would classify them right now, would you say they're more observate? It looks like they're performing observations, which means they're observing for a reason. They're picking up patterns for a reason, which in its sense could be aggression, just not just because it's not, you know, the, you know, the saucers are not shooting laser Beams and all that other stuff. But the fact that they're continuously showing up around military stuff, around our planes and kind of doing investigations in and out, that in itself could be a form of aggression.
- [22:29]
Ryan Graves
Well, absolutely. I mean, think about the uproar when there was a Chinese spy balloon.
- [22:34]
Interviewer (possibly a podcast or show host)
Oh, yeah. Flying over Montana. Yeah.
- [22:36]
Ryan Graves
Yeah. So, you know, that's what. That's the, like, cognitive disconnect that always confuses me, where when we see something, we know what it is and we know it's not supposed to be there, we react in one way and we're very insulted by the fact that that's happening. And yet for the other, hundreds of reports where they're more ambiguous but still very certain that something's happening. There's no outcry. There's no one trying to attack the problem with the same vigor. So why is that? I know at least they have the data to validate that this is happening regularly. Their pilots in the Navy and the Air Force elsewhere that are reporting it. Why isn't more being invested to understand what's happening?
- [23:16]
Interviewer (possibly a podcast or show host)
See, because. And then again, I'm not. I don't like to get into, like, conspiracy stuff, but I always think, like, either one, it's above our pay grade and they don't want to talk about it because they know about it. Or. The second thing was, is that we have become so desensitized. I was. When the big release, that first release of. And I say ufo, I refuse to do the unidentified thing, whatever. But I was expecting breaking news, even a night off from, like, the Gutfeld show, where we would go over the reports and the videos and the interviews, and it just fell flat. It was. It was like this. You were waiting for this big movie where everyone was going to be, you know, for years and years being told you were crazy or this, that whatever, here we are. We have. And again, we don't know the little green men, we don't know what they are. Those little things could be organisms within themselves, we don't know. But it just never got the reaction because everyone was arguing over their voting habits and didn't give a damn about something that has come into this, the country. Our best and brightest pilots, which are the best in the world, are like, we don't know what these things are. And it was just very kind of like, hey, what else you got? And I just was shocked by that. I was absolutely. Even some of the phenomenon that I've seen on just TV shows like Skinwalker Ranch. I'm like, what? That's amazing. And then you look, no one else is talking about it. And I don't. I blame the Internet. It's the tab. It's gotta be. It's the gram. It's gotta be social media to where everyone has become so selfish. Unless the alien is blocking them from getting out of their driveway, this is the only time anyone's gonna give a damn about orbs and stuff. And I think that's really disappointing.
- [25:02]
Ryan Graves
Yeah, I agree. It's a very complex information environment out there right now. And you turn on your local mainstream media outlet and they're more or less just telling you what to be angry about today. It doesn't seem like this is the topic they really want discussing or battling over. And I think that's why it's important that folks like yourself and other independent media are willing to lean in and take a hard look at this. Because regardless of what the general social dynamic is on this, the reality is that agencies across the government are spinning up attention onto this in a pretty big way. And the conversation continues to move forward and the evidence continues to mount, whether it's some statement from the president or just an accumulation of data from independent researchers. At a certain point, people will be forced to pay further attention to this and folks like yourself will be ahead of that curve.
- [25:58]
Interviewer (possibly a podcast or show host)
Well, because I'm with you, I agree that this is a national security issue and a safety issue. And when you are in, when you're doing briefings in your room full of skeptics, what is your, I guess, cleanest argument to them? Because you know they're going to try to. When you're just trying to deal with facts, you're just trying to, you're trying to present facts like, almost like a scientist, like, here's the data, whatever your theory is. But when you're dealing with skeptics that are just going to attack you, like, what is your best approach when you're dealing with that? When you're in briefings with extremely skeptical people?
- [26:34]
Ryan Graves
Sure. You know, I mean, ultimately I think it's wise and smart to be a, you know, skeptical, skeptical participant in this conversation. Right. There's, there's too much bad information disinformation, misinformation in this space to just go in believing everything that you hear. But there's a difference between having an objective look at everything and going in with the mindset that this is a completely false conversation and just looking to minimize any cases. The reality is that there's highly trained observers operating multimillion dollar sensor equipment that are corroborated by multiple different sensor operators that are recording this information. And not just one or two, but many dozens, if not hundreds of examples out there, either in the classified network or some that have come out. And for those that are serious about determining what this is, they need to work to gain access to the information, either through collaboration with the government or building their own detections and analytical systems on the outside. You know, my organization, Americans for Safe Aerospace, we've received over a thousand reports. And, you know, we work through them. We find the ones that have the most potential for corroboration and most detail. And we do work with partners within the government and federal law enforcement to be able to provide that information in a way that's actionable for them. So it's not that there's no actual data out there. It's just many skeptics are going into this with the mindset that this has to be false and looking for the lowest common denominator answer. But if you actually listen to the witnesses and review the data, it's hard to ignore that at a minimum, we need to be mitigating this from an aviation safety and national security perspective. No one's asking you necessarily to believe in aliens yet, but it's clear that we have a problem. And if we saw a Chinese flag on the side of one of these,
- [28:28]
Interviewer (possibly a podcast or show host)
oh, yeah, it'd be completely different.
- [28:30]
Ryan Graves
Better believe we pay more attention.
- [28:32]
Interviewer (possibly a podcast or show host)
You know, and thank you for mentioning Americans for Safe Aerospace. You guys are growing fast. And what is the, the biggest. The biggest single single thing your organization message is to people who want to get involved or trying to learn more about this? Because I think one of the things that makes what you say so credible, besides your resume and your life experience is that you're not solving the riddle because you don't know. But there are things that make. That we need to look into. And I think that is the best way to look at this is if we don't have the answers. And maybe that's why they're so quick to bat it down or be skeptical, because there's no money in it yet. You know what I'm saying? Like, in terms of a raw answer or whatever. So your message for, for. From your organization to people who are just trying to get answers, what is the, the. What would be your message to them in terms of, like, what you guys do the most?
- [29:31]
Ryan Graves
You know, I would just say it's okay to talk about, you know, this conversation is okay to talk about. It's a serious conversation, and it's. It has One with like a very high potential for altering the way we think and view the universe. You know, we accept, we, we offer ourselves as a safe place for professionals to come in and share their experiences when they don't have an outlet in the commercial aviation world or the military world to share this information. And we can take that and we can share that anonymously with pilot unions, with airline companies and businesses throughout the industry so that the lessons learned from those incidents don't go ignored from the people that come behind you. Right. Every pilot has a responsibility for aviation safety. So when there are near misses of objects that are very hard to describe, we can't just ignore those and not report those. That's critical information for the pilots behind you and that come after you. And when it comes to the national security piece, we take those reports and we work with law enforcement when these objects are appearing over critical infrastructure sites. So, you know, we provide a place where your report can actually be actual and help move the conversation forward and protect our nation.
- [30:46]
Interviewer (possibly a podcast or show host)
Just to put it in terms of someone who's trying to, like, to understand this, if you took the technology that you've, you've seen demonstrated from these, these orbs and you put it into an F18, how much of an advantage tactically would our planes have if they were able to move like these orbs in other countries didn't have that yet?
- [31:06]
Ryan Graves
Oh, we'd basically be untouchable. I don't know if the pilot would survive inside that cockpit, but if we
- [31:12]
Interviewer (possibly a podcast or show host)
all, I mean, if we had the technology to be able to do that. But the reason why I asked that question is because that's the level of, I think, intensity and interest we should be looking at it because, yes, these are small and for the most part what we have been unaggressive as best we can acknowledge. But the power of these things, if they, that technology was into our current jets and our ships and all other kind of stuff, it would be lights out, basically. In terms of. That, to me is a reason to pay attention. I mean, just, I, I just feel like that's the best argument. If you took what they had and put it into our aviation, it wouldn't even be close. Planes wouldn't even get off the ground.
- [32:03]
Ryan Graves
Whether it's China doing this or something else, we would want to have that technology. Absolutely. Because that would revolutionize how we built aircraft, how we deliver weapons, how we do intelligence and surveillance and reconnaissance. That would change how we operate satellites in space and how we maneuver up there. I mean, it would literally revolutionize if we had those capabilities, our entire aviation and aeronautical regimes.
- [32:28]
Interviewer (possibly a podcast or show host)
That to me is a front page news that is more than Left wing Democrat throws bottle of a glass of milk at Republican conservative at Denny's, that gets more. There'll be a panel of experts to discuss the intricacies of, of not getting along for that. But I've yet to see an hour long prime time network talking about this like it shouldn't always be. And again, Ancient Aliens, great show. Skinwalker Ranch is basically a science experiment. Like if it's Oak island, although that's not. Has nothing to do with outer space. But I just like anything where camaraderie and we get to use machines and dig for stuff. But when you see the, the level of. I don't want, I hate using the term lack of interest. I just feel like it's just hard to get the information out. You know, I think that's more, I think if more people were able to sit down and listen to what, especially what you're saying and if more politics were felt that when they did give this information that it was received as valuable information, not Loch Ness Monster and Bigfoot situation. And I don't know how we change that mindset with our current, the way things are going on right now.
- [33:51]
Ryan Graves
Well, one of our plans is to just start hitting people over the head with it. You know, we have these thousand plus cases and there's just some incredible, incredible reports in there from very credible people. And we're going to start sharing those on a regular basis, weekly basis. Having these stories come out, having these witnesses share their experiences. And over time it's going to change the conversation because it's going to demonstrate to people how you can have a serious rational conversation about this and how you can do so in a professionally safe way for these pilots. And I think that more than anything is going to continue to change the culture because this isn't just why are people ignoring it? This is a cultural battle going back 60, 70 years of stigma being induced through media, whether intentionally or unintentionally. UFOs are considered an entertainment project, right? It's considered a fantasy due to our media. It's just what's been indoctrinated into us. And it's gonna not necessarily be an easy task to show people that there's actually much more truth in there than we thought.
- [34:57]
Interviewer (possibly a podcast or show host)
So for people who are looking to educate themselves and get information, what is the best way for them to reach out to your organization, get information, continue to follow along and at the same time if you've seen something, say something. If you have a video of the barbecue at the summer and you look and you see four different orbs flying around and things like that, where can they reach out or send that information to?
- [35:22]
Ryan Graves
Yeah, you know, we Accept reports@safeaerospace.org We publish our reports, we write articles about what we're receiving and we keep everyone updated with events and the media that's going to be coming out so they can go to SAFE Aerospace and they can reach out to us directly. And you know, for those that are seeing orbs in their backyard, they might not think that's, you know, going to solve the riddle or be that important. But when we, you have as many reports that we have, we can start to draw some interesting connections between what the guy at his barbecue is seeing and what also the pilot that was flying at 30,000ft saw at the same time. That's where you get some really powerful reports.
- [36:01]
Interviewer (possibly a podcast or show host)
Because my family has witnessed some strange phenomenons and I was, I'm on the road a lot and you know, I got in New Jersey when the, the drones or whatever it was, was a lot of light phenomena going on. My family was like outside the house with binoculars and their camera going, what is that? What? You know, what is that? What is that? You know that there was a night in Florida where there was all these crazy lights flying over certain areas and, and you know, they're seeing it and, and the react, the typical react is everyone is so excited about what they're seeing and then there's like, then there's this, then the questions. And what bothers me is when they ask questions like, well, what is it? How do we not know what this stuff is? There's never a legitimate answer. Even I trying to answer, you know, just as a husband and a father, like, well I, you know what? I don't know, you know, and that's a, that's a scary thing to have to say to your kid. You know, you got an 11 year old wondering what the lights are flying above and they're seeing them. And I think people are seeing because the more our and perfect example is as radar improve, you started seeing these things. So as we continue to improve, we're going to have more interactions, I would imagine, and see more things that we couldn't see before. I mean there literally could be a highway flying by our planet that we just haven't caught up yet to. You know, it's like the, I always like my, my kids, they watch a lot of Dragon Ball Z And they're fighting. And then when they, they go back, the people can't see what's happening. They're just hearing a lot of noises because everyone's moving so fast. And then they get to a certain level and everything slows down. I think this is kind of what is happening. Wow. Dragon Ball Z connection to aerospace. But whatever they, but they can. As they, as we improve our levels of technology, we will have, I think more interactions and seeing more things. And I think there'll be more questions than answers as we continue to grow. So it would nice to be as this is happening, we're also talking about the data, talking about what we're seeing in a scientific term, in scientific terms, opposed to. We're wondering is this going to be aliens versus Predator or is this going to be, you know, a little ET Pointing his finger at, you know. So I hope we, we get there. And I'm gonna do my best to continue just to put information forward. And this is the part. First of all, man, this is phenomenal. Please come back because I want to keep getting more information as things go on. But I have, we have a B team. I got a couple young guys. They're. If in military terms, these guys would be grunts, they're trying to make their way. Ryan and Harry, I'm sure you probably talked to. Harry's our booker. They like to ask. I allow them five questions each to ask, but usually they only get one or two off. Especially Ryan. His questions are a little long winded. I don't know if you saw. He asked one question that was a minute and 45 seconds long. It was quite amazing feat actually, in the worst way. But do you mind doing a couple questions with these guys?
- [39:02]
Ryan Graves
Sure, let's do it.
- [39:04]
Young Male Interviewer 1
We appreciate you taking the time. This has been super interesting for me. I remember hearing you on Rogan a few years back. When was that?
- [39:11]
Ryan Graves
I think I did Rogan first time in 2019 and then about a little over a year ago.
- [39:18]
Young Male Interviewer 1
That's awesome. I mean, you have such a cool story and I just wanted to ask you two questions. You want to alternate Ryan, So I'll do one and then you do one. All right, so my first question is, what is the most recent case that you've seen that's been the most compelling, where we have the most evidence from it, whether it's footage, radar.
- [39:39]
Ryan Graves
Yeah, you know, I actually talked about a little bit today. Well, I'll tell you what, I'll tell you, I'll tell you another one. In fact, since I already Talked about these fear that was catching up behind F18 and then stopping in midair. That's a recent one that you know has multiple sensors on it, an air crew that witnessed it, the dog fight. I'll talk about another one. The sensor corroboration is limited or none, I'll say but it's just such a startling report that it keeps sticking in my mind. But there was a fully loaded 737 flying out of Johannesburg in South Africa. As they're climbing through about 28, 29,000ft they noticed a black triangle off the nose of their aircraft that within seconds flew directly over their aircraft nose to nose and miss the loaded 737 by about 200ft. 200ft is quite tight. When we dog fight in F18 we keep a 500 foot safety bubble and that looks very close, I'll say. So to think of this object coming 200ft, I mean that's a startling, startlingly close miss. Both, both him and the co pilot witnessed the event, describe the object the same. No indications on their systems or from the air traffic control. But that one really sticks out. Not only because it, you know, could have led to a catastrophe but still also an unwillingness to report the case through their normal channels. And in fact this pilot did actually report it to his chief pilot who then basically the conversation just stopped there as well. So two people, two well trained pilots, 20,000 plus hours not even willing to report an incident that could have taken the lives of hundreds.
- [41:37]
Young Male Interviewer 1
That's pretty wild. So I know what corroboration means but for Ryan, could you just explain what that means?
- [41:43]
Ryan Graves
Yeah. So you know who else can validate what this person is saying? Right. So it could be other witnesses that saw the same thing. It could be air traffic control who had it on radar. It could be internal sensors that are seeing the same thing as the person's eyeballs.
- [42:00]
Young Male Interviewer 1
I appreciate that Ryan. Cool, thank you. Now to other Ryan, less cool Ryan.
- [42:04]
Young Male Interviewer 2
First of all Ryan, thank you for your service. I don't know if Harry was going to do that but at least I have the love for the military to at least appreciate that. I'll keep my question short. What was probably the craziest thing that you saw while up in the air? Doesn't even if it wasn't UFO related, what would you say is the craziest experience? Gosh,
- [42:31]
Ryan Graves
where to start? You know I frankly the most the crazy experience I had was my first night landing behind the aircraft carrier. Not because of the landing itself but because as I was on approaching the back of the ship, I had a total electrical failure in my jet, including all the backup lights and everything. And so when you're flying out there at night, there was a cloud deck this night. You might as well have your eyes closed. You know, there's no difference between having your eyes closed and open when it's that dark out and we lost all the displays in our jet. It was also while we were maneuvering a bit. And so I'm at an unknown G turning right. It's almost impossible to tell because you can just be upside down at 1G sitting in your seat, not knowing that you're upside down. We had about 5,000ft of between us and the water. And when our systems came back online, we were at about 1800ft, inverted.
- [43:27]
Young Male Interviewer 2
That's crazy.
- [43:27]
Ryan Graves
Heading down towards the water. We got ourselves righted and as we headed back to the center line for the approach, it happened again. That's when I let go of the stick and just fumbled as fast as I could for my flashlight. But before I could get it back on, the lights came on. They stayed on. And then I was able to come in for the first night landing, which was a relief and easy because I was just finally happy. I could see the ground, I knew where the flight deck was, and if it happened again, I could land.
- [43:54]
Young Male Interviewer 2
Well, it's awesome. So that's like a crazy in itself. I could, I could never imagine doing that. I mean, I don't know about you, but yeah, that's, that's incredible.
- [44:07]
Young Male Interviewer 1
Ryan, is there a movie that you have seen that has accurately depicted your experience with uap?
- [44:15]
Ryan Graves
Oh, that's a good question. No, I haven't actually. I have not. You know, I think back to close encounters with third kind and glowing spheres and all that, but many of what we were seeing were daytime with these metallic spheres, non glowing type situations. So no, I haven't seen any movie that has come close. I have seen, I have seen reported UAP incidences data that have been very similar to what we've seen, including the cube in the sphere. Just a regular old silver metallic sphere. So interestingly, some of those reports also go back to the 60s.
- [44:53]
Young Male Interviewer 1
Oh, wow. What are those reports like?
- [44:57]
Ryan Graves
It's very similar. I mean, there's a few paper clippings where a pilot observes a solid cube inside of a clear sphere. No imagery associated with it. But you know, that description keeps popping up and there's been, you know, videos that I've seen. I can't, I can't vouch for the authenticity of these videos, but they do look quite familiar.
- [45:19]
Young Male Interviewer 2
All right, I got a question. So as a. You were in the Navy, and what was it? Navy or Air Force?
- [45:30]
Ryan Graves
Navy.
- [45:30]
Young Male Interviewer 2
Navy. Okay. So as a pilot, I can only imagine that your experience in the air could have had a lot of good moments, a lot of tough moments. Like you answered before. What would you say, whether it's related to UFOs, related to the military, related to maybe your personal life, related to maybe, I don't know, just your own individual strength and growth. What would you say is the hardest? Because I can only imagine.
- [46:00]
Interviewer (possibly a podcast or show host)
Oh, my God.
- [46:01]
Young Male Interviewer 1
I'm sorry.
- [46:01]
Interviewer (possibly a podcast or show host)
He just.
- [46:02]
Young Male Interviewer 1
He's taking forever to ask these questions.
- [46:03]
Young Male Interviewer 2
What was I asking again? What was I asking again?
- [46:06]
Young Male Interviewer 1
I don't see. He doesn't even remember Ryan.
- [46:07]
Interviewer (possibly a podcast or show host)
I'm sorry, this is.
- [46:09]
Young Male Interviewer 2
I may or may not have been put up to that. But all. All kidding aside, what was the hardest moment in your career?
- [46:21]
Young Male Interviewer 1
Yeah, I'm sorry, Ryan. That took so long.
- [46:25]
Interviewer (possibly a podcast or show host)
Oh, my gosh.
- [46:26]
Ryan Graves
I mean, no big deal.
- [46:28]
Young Male Interviewer 2
I was setting it up.
- [46:29]
Ryan Graves
Oh, yeah, yeah, he's setting it up. Ryan's like.
- [46:31]
Young Male Interviewer 2
To talk, you know. Right, Ryan, like, listen, cut all the bullshit. I just said, what was the hardest moment being a pilot?
- [46:43]
Ryan Graves
I could. I could give you the fly. There's a flying answer. But really, you know, just deciding to come forward on this topic, you know, it's really a hard decision because I knew that there was. I didn't know how many precise, you know, precise number of my colleagues had had similar experience. I just known that it was prevalent in our little bubble off the eastern seaboard. And I recognize that a lot of people in that community might view me speaking about this negatively, kind of chopping my own head off, if you will, with the group that I've worked so hard to build, you know, a good reputation with and worked very hard on. And I, you know, I realized it was perhaps a real risk that. That, you know, I could be damaging that record. Bully. And I think for the short term, perhaps it did, right? As people didn't quite know the seriousness of the situation or how prevalent was. People weren't still talking about it. And all of a sudden I was this guy just, you know, off talking about UFOs and aliens, and they didn't have really any context for why it was that way. I'm happy to report that, you know, over time, that absolutely has shifted. And now this is, you know, a very strong interest point. Many pilots, especially in the Navy. And so that's changed quite a bit. But you know, I knew there was going to be that period where there was, you know, a lot of people questioning my motives or perhaps my sanity.
- [48:09]
Young Male Interviewer 2
I mean that's crazy thinking that out of all your experiences being in the air that your hardest point in life was coming out.
- [48:18]
Ryan Graves
I think that I was trained, you know, I was trained and I was so motivated and I had studied the book and I was confident, my abilities flying and of course there were a ton of things that pushed and challenged that. But you know what success looks like in that world, right? You know what it looks like. You just have to be good enough and motivated enough to do it. But this was, you know, there's no script for this, there's no plan for this and for me that was scary.
- [48:43]
Young Male Interviewer 1
Ryan, we appreciate you coming on, sharing your story and coming forward. Thank you for coming on plant tires. Appreciate it.
- [48:50]
Ryan Graves
My pleasure. Thanks guys.
- [48:52]
Interviewer (possibly a podcast or show host)
Sam.