← Planet Tyrus
Loading summary
Transcript252 lines
- [00:00]
Chris Epting
Study and play come together on a Windows 11 PC. And for a limited time, college students get the best of both worlds. Get the unreal college deal. Everything you need to study and play with select Windows 11 PCs. Eligible students get a year of Microsoft 365 Premium and a year of Xbox Game Pass ultimate with a custom color Xbox wireless controller. Learn more@windows.com studentoffer while supplies last ends June 30th terms at aka mscollegepc.
- [00:30]
Tyrus
Dude had a badger, you know what I'm saying? Like that was his support animal.
- [00:34]
Chris Epting
A little girl 13 year old girl named Pearl Gorsuch presents Roosevelt with a two week old baby badger as a gift. Really? When Josiah gets back to the White House in a nutshell goes kind of crazy. Ripping up couches, chairs may have killed
- [00:49]
Tyrus
a family cat being a badger.
- [00:50]
Chris Epting
The badger is a metaphor for Roosevelt. Absolutely. I think that's why the kids loved it so much.
- [01:03]
Tyrus
In the spirit of, you know, our 250th anniversary, my writing coach Chris Epting has a new book. It's Theodore Roosevelt in California, the Presidential Adventure that Saved the Wilderness. The book revisits Roosevelt's trip to California in 1903. Harry during the Great Loop Tour, a nine week, roughly 14,000 mile journey across the country. At the heart of the story, Roosevelt's three nights in Yosemite camping trip with John Muir. A trip that pushed conservation from an idea into a defining American mission. Now, spoiler alert. I went to Yosemite with my family a couple weeks ago and it is still as beautiful as it was from looking at the pictures. Now you have some. This is an amazing book. Now there's a lot of stuff about presidents out there right now, but what I found so intriguing was, was you kind of wove, you wove it into conservation and a great piece about him, his relationship with the Buffalo Soldiers, which doesn't really get talked about, you know, and he's, he had, you know, of course Booker T. Washington and him had a great relationship, but that one kind of gets mentioned. But you never hear about his affection and their support of him. And I'd like to go into that a little bit.
- [02:23]
Chris Epting
Well, I mean, we'll get into the whole story. But to the Buffalo Soldiers, were it not for them, I mean, in 1898 in the Spanish American war on San Juan Hill, the Rough Riders may not have made it up the hill without the protection and warrior skills of the Buffalo Soldiers. And Roosevelt always acknowledged that back then. That's why when he learned that when he was in San Francisco. This is his very first trip to California. Just to set the table, it's 1903. Roosevelt, of course, becomes president in 1901, when McKinley's assassinated and he's almost killed himself a year later when his stagecoach is hit by a trolley car. Believe it or not, after McKinley's assassination, that was the birth of the secret services. We know it. And Roosevelt's security guy was killed in that accident. Roosevelt had a very badly damaged leg. He's in a hospital for months, and he reads a book by John Muir about Yosemite. That's what propels him to plan this trip in the first place. So when he does finally get out and he's in San Francisco, before meeting with John Muir, he learns that the 9th Cavalry Buffalo Soldiers Unit is stationed at the Presidio in San Francisco. And he orders them, commands them to act as his sentry in the parade in San Francisco that day. So when you see footage like we've managed to get through the Library of Congress, where you see these black soldiers who, at that point, I mean, they're created, the group of them, in the 1860s, and they fight through World War II, believe it or not. But these are soldiers who had almost no rights at all in, yet they were giving their all for their country every time out. Roosevelt knew that. He acknowledged it. What's incredible as well, and there's a whole chapter in the book on this, that these were. These soldiers were the very first park rangers at Yosemite starting in the early 1900s. So it's an incredible untold story that I think really speaks, you know, to learning in this 250th anniversary. There are some obvious things we're learning about. This is not one of them that I thought was important.
- [04:21]
Tyrus
No. Buffalo Soldiers was basically a paragraph in my history book.
- [04:26]
Chris Epting
Yeah.
- [04:26]
Tyrus
I remember in school, Harry, when you were in school, did you learn a lot? Was there a lot of information about Buffalo Soldiers?
- [04:32]
Unknown Female Speaker
Not really, if I'm being completely honest.
- [04:34]
Tyrus
No. And that's the point. That's the whole point of why this is so interesting, that so many things that he's known for the popular things, but they don't really talk about some of the things that in this day and age where they talk about oppression and how racist everyone was, and then here's in a time when it was completely fashionable to be that way, especially someone like a president, to not only use them, but to honor and respect them.
- [05:01]
Chris Epting
Yeah. And I was just up at Yosemite to do a little book tour. It was nice to see finally a Buffalo Soldiers highway, you know, part of 41, I believe. So the acknowledgments are coming. There are now some great monuments and markers around the country where we're finally getting around to doing it. But when Roosevelt knows they're in San Francisco, that's important for him. It's one of many things he does on this trip that are really almost unchallengeable in terms of presidential history. I'll give you another example. A couple of weeks into this trip, this night, he's away from the White House for nine weeks. So the White House is essentially a train car. That's where he's conducting business. In a little town called Sharon Springs, Kansas, a little girl, 13 year old girl named Pearl Gorsuch presents Roosevelt with a two week old baby badger as a gift. Staff moves in and says, Mr. President, you can't have this. He shoos them away. He adopts the badger, which rides on the train for the next two months, makes it back to Washington. And in the book, I unpack the details of what, what Josiah is fate was. He names the badger Josiah after the little girl's father. So this, this trip has got all of these kind of crazy twists and turns from buffalo soldiers to baby badgers to this three night camping trip with John Muir where Roosevelt's going to disappear into the backcountry, into the, into the wild. No security, no staff, no no press. Just he and John Muir and two guys. One to tend to the horses and one to tend to the food. You think about that today. Nobody knew where the president was for 48 hours. It snows 8 inches the first night. They are not even tent camping. All right? Roosevelt is sleeping on 40 blankets. Muir crafts a bed out of twigs and branches. I mean, this is, this is primitive camping beyond. I was saying the other day, Roosevelt wasn't off the grid. There was no grid to be off of. That's how primitive this was.
- [06:52]
Tyrus
You know, the only thing I would push back is I think we can kind of relate to not knowing where your President is. I think we went through that for about four years. Not trying to, not trying to be political or anything, but I don't think anyone knew where Biden was. I think he did in fact try to wander off into the wilderness, I believe.
- [07:05]
Chris Epting
Although there was that.
- [07:06]
Tyrus
Yeah, Amazon jungle.
- [07:08]
Unknown Female Speaker
Yeah.
- [07:08]
Tyrus
Yeah.
- [07:09]
Chris Epting
So maybe, maybe that was a callback to Roosevelt's mission.
- [07:13]
Tyrus
Yeah, maybe we should have let him go. You could. You know what, you would have been great for spinning on that campaign. What he was Just he was checking out. He was about to make it a national park, you know.
- [07:20]
Chris Epting
Well, I mean, thankfully, there is an image of Roosevelt and Muir atop Glacier Point, where you just were. Where I just was Tyrus, a few weeks ago. And to see those two men up there on this Morning in May 1903, it really is a monumental thing. What people don't realize is this camping trip. Over three nights of campfires, Roosevelt and Muir basically gave spark to the National Park Service. They had this deep, meaningful conversation where Muir expressed his concerns about what was happening, happening in the wild, why we needed protection, and that's what really puts a lot of this in motion. So the trip itself, for all of its kind of weird twists and turns, there is this kind of ongoing effect that we still feel today in terms of celebrating national parks, you know, because
- [08:04]
Tyrus
he's described as a progressive. Right. He was like the first progressive, which he was generally interested in preservations.
- [08:11]
Unknown Female Speaker
Yeah.
- [08:13]
Tyrus
And how it has gotten so distorted, and it's like a progressive now opposed to the original. It's strange how time changes.
- [08:24]
Chris Epting
Everything changes.
- [08:25]
Tyrus
The word doesn't mean the same thing anymore as it used to.
- [08:27]
Chris Epting
No, no, no, no. Back then, there's definitely been a redefinition of the term. And I think back then, Roosevelt was such a rule breaker, such doing things on his own terms. That was a progressive mindset because he would piss off both parties equally, you know, by doing what he felt was right. And, you know, it's funny, even he becomes President, 1901. There's an interesting tribute to him that happens this same year, 1903. It's the birth, the introduction of the teddy bear, which, if people don't know, the year before 1902, Roosevelt is on a camping hunting expedition with the governor of Mississippi. He doesn't get a bear. They're bear hunting. So the governor goes out, his staff finds a sick bear cub, they tie it to a willow tree, give Roosevelt his gun, and said, Here you go, Mr. President, have at it. Roosevelt says, this is ridiculous. This is not hunting. Free the bear. A cartoonist in Washington learns about this, creates this cartoon panel of Roosevelt liberating the bear. And a guy in Brooklyn who owned a candy store had this idea to create something called Teddy's Bear. In tribute to that, he writes the White House. Roosevelt says, of course you can do that. And that gives Birth in 1903 to the Teddy bear. Interestingly, they sell. He and his wife sell so many teddy bears, this couple in Brooklyn, they create a toy company called the Ideal Toy Company, which becomes Essentially the toy company America ultimately releasing the Rubik's Cube. I mean, that was something you can tie back to Roosevelt. So I love Theodore Roosevelt stories because it's like a web. You can tie so many origins back to things that we take for granted today.
- [10:01]
Tyrus
Why do you think so many things that Roosevelt did maintain the test of time? Because, you know, it's crazy to me when you think about how much impact he had that is still relevant today. I don't think there's a child in America that doesn't have a teddy bear or been access to it. I mean, that's just.
- [10:21]
Unknown Female Speaker
I sleep with one every night.
- [10:24]
Chris Epting
I think it was his boldness. He was a president of firsts. There's a whole chapter in the book
- [10:29]
Tyrus
called Was it the four terms? You think?
- [10:31]
Chris Epting
Pardon?
- [10:32]
Tyrus
Do you think it was the four terms?
- [10:34]
Chris Epting
I think it was the fact that he had guts and he had courage. He was the first president to fly in a plane, to ride in a submarine, to own a telephone, to ride in a car. I mean, he was somebody that always wanted to be the one experienc things, you know. I also think a lot of it has to do with the fact that he modeled much of his thinking on Abraham Lincoln, who was really one of his heroes. And I think that's also why he resonates, is because the thinking was so solid and so resonant. I mean, when Roosevelt. People don't realize. When he was inaugurated in 1905, he wore a ring with a lock of Lincoln's hair in it. That's the tribute. The ring was given to him by a guy named John Hay, who had been Lincoln's secretary.
- [11:14]
Tyrus
I thought you were gonna say John Hancock, because that would. No, no, no, no. Wow. The son of a bitch. You don't get to keep the hair.
- [11:21]
Chris Epting
John Hay is another American figure that a lot of people don't know about. He was Lincoln's secretary when Lincoln was assassinated. He goes on to become Theodore Roosevelt's Secretary of state. So again, his political.
- [11:35]
Tyrus
There's the connection.
- [11:36]
Chris Epting
And he gives Lincoln that ring on this particular trip. In the book, I have images of Roosevelt laying a wreath in Springfield at Lincoln's tomb. He unveils plaques at the sites of the Lincoln Douglas Debates, the 1903 Great Loop Tour. There was a lot of Lincoln invested in that. And the thing that really blew my mind is that when he lays the wreath in Springfield, it's not the first time that Theodore Roosevelt is in the presence of Abraham Lincoln's body. I know that sounds weird, but we gotta go back to 1865 when Lincoln is assassinated. His body is taken on basically a funeral tour where you can go pay your respects to this horse drawn carriage which takes Lincoln's casket through the streets of New York, Boston, Chicago, D.C. in New York, there's a photo that was produced. Union Square, 14th street and Broadway. Lincoln's casket being drawn down Broadway. And in the window of a building on the corner, in the second floor window, if you blow it up, you can see two little boys looking at the casket. It's Theodore roosevelt at about 7 years old and his brother. So he and Lincoln have this kind of weird connection over the years that
- [12:42]
Tyrus
almost a destiny, it really is.
- [12:44]
Chris Epting
And the other part of which this, which I really wanted to connect in the book, connecting all these dots, is that when Muir and Roosevelt are camping at Yosemite, they are camping at that time in the only park that is federally protected. And it's thanks to Abraham Lincoln who at the peak of the Civil War signs into act something called the Yosemite Valley Grant Act Protecting Yosemite. And people wonder, how would Abraham Lincoln even know about Yosemite? He never came to California. And that gets back to this other really great untold story in the book about a photographer named Carlton Watkins, who in the 1850s, raised, you know, gets his money together. He's from New York, moves to California, California, during the gold rush to try and make money, earns some money to buy a camera and becomes the first guy to really document Yosemite. He's sort of the Ansel Adams of the 1850s. And New York City art gallery has an exhibit of his pictures. A California senator sees the pictures, shows them to Lincoln, and Lincoln is so inspired, it pushes him to create that act. So there are lots of these untold stories that get to preservation, to conservation, to really understanding the importance of environmentalism and everything that Roosevelt was all about.
- [13:59]
Tyrus
Go ahead, you had questions.
- [14:01]
Unknown Female Speaker
I just had a quick question, Chris, about the pushback in Theodore Roosevelt's conservation. So he was obviously a big part of preserving the national parks. What was the pushback like?
- [14:12]
Chris Epting
Well, at that point there wasn't a lot of pushback because nobody, it was a new concept. I mean, John Muir is saying, Roosevelt said to Muir, what are the problems? What do we need to know about? Muir begins talking about things like logging and poachers and things like that. And that gets Roosevelt, Roosevelt thinking about what he can start doing. So there really wasn't a lot of pushback up front. As soon as Roosevelt gets back to dc, you can look, it's a matter of record the number of bills he began signing protecting millions, tens of millions of acres in the United States. You know, creating some of the first national parks. The national parks are born officially in 1916. But all of that momentum from Roosevelt and Muir and a gentleman named Stephen Mather are kind of what get us there. So there's really not a lot of pushback because it's a new idea. You know, back then everybody thought everything was going to last forever and there were no threats. Thanks to John Muir calling this to Roosevelt's attention, we begin to see this movement. So fortunately there wasn't a lot of pushback back then. It was still pretty much an open field where you could go and push this kind of environmentalism.
- [15:16]
Tyrus
Wasn't it also that during that time, it was when you were elected the job of the House and the Senate was to work with you. There wasn't this, I'm just, because my side didn't win, I'm going to fight everything you do. It was kind of like, okay, it's your, it's your show and we'll pick and choose. But generally the general consensus was to, and how many people be like, no, I don't want pristine wilderness saved for future generations. That's ridiculous. I, my, my nephew and son in law are loggers. We need that. We need those sequoias and redwoods. Yeah, I mean, because do you think if had he not done that, would we have those for us today?
- [15:59]
Chris Epting
No, I don't. I think there would have been. I think you needed that to happen when it happened because there was, you know, California with the gold rush, there was a lot of development and a lot of encroachment. But to your point about polarization, I totally agree. I mean the beauty of the 1903 Roosevelt trip, which had never been done before, will never be done again. I mean a nine week trip across America was, it was essentially nonpartisan. It wasn't an election year. The 24 states he visits, Roosevelt visits. He knows he's pretty much got those states. So what you see in the press coverage and this is in the book as well, both sides were cheering this on. It was fun because all of a sudden dozens of small towns were getting to see a president up close and personal. Roosevelt is giving between six to eight speeches per day, pulling the train up and doing these whistle stop talks in towns of population 100 or in Berkeley where he gives the commencement to 10,000 people, everything in between. So both sides really embraced this trip because it Was ACHIE stands for everyday Americans to get up close and personal with the President. This is, I think 12 years before microphones were invented. So all six to eight speeches per day. Roosevelt is delivering just his voice. That's why in the images in the book, you see him yelling and projecting. It's an entirely different age to be a politician then. The physicality of it was very different. You had to be a great orator to succeed. You had to be essentially.
- [17:24]
Tyrus
And they weren't short speeches.
- [17:26]
Chris Epting
No, no, no.
- [17:27]
Tyrus
There were some long ass speeches. There were long speeches.
- [17:30]
Chris Epting
Now that's a great point too is the range. He would improvise, he would write things. It was really feeling it in the moment. But I'll tell you this, when he gets to California, something happens. The minute he hits the desert, you can read in his words that something is changing. The minute he sees the Pacific Ocean, the first sequoia. Everything he begins appreciating in California is a very big deal to him. And you get this sense along the trip and this is all in the book of this excitement that he's got all leading up to the meeting with John Muir.
- [18:03]
Tyrus
Well, one of the things that I. Because of his childhood and he grew up very sickly and it was a good chance that he probably wasn't going to make it. Do you think that had a big effect on his psyche in terms of. He never really feared death, you know. No. And even when he actually. And the reason why I mentioned the long speech is. Cause they had to roll them up and fold them up and he had thick pieces of paper and it was actually the first bulletproof vest. Was one of his speeches because he was shot. And if it wasn't for his speech, that have been it? Not only that.
- [18:38]
Chris Epting
And he finished the speech.
- [18:39]
Tyrus
He finished the damn speech. He finished this. That's not. And now when I hear it's a first world problem, you know, Harry's like, hey, the WI Fi's down, we're not gonna be the show today. Like, how do you measure that to that? I'm gonna be honest, I don't know if maybe you would. I don't know if I'd finish the speech that they were shooting at.
- [18:57]
Unknown Female Speaker
Well, I can't finish this podcast when I get mustard on my pants.
- [18:59]
Tyrus
Yeah. You know, just imagine being shot and be like, furthermore, it's tyrus.
- [19:04]
Chris Epting
You bring up a great point. I do think that the pain he suffered as a young person, I mean, look, there's the physical pain, there's the emotional pain. He Loses his mom and wife on the same day on Valentine's Day. And I do think that everything he endured, all the conflict, absolutely pushed him to take every single day and squeeze the life out of it, really make every day matter. You can see that reflected in the letters he writes his children, which I have in the book from this trip where he's recounting every animal you would appreciate, I think Tyrus as well, his relationship with animals, because on this trip, he's collecting lizards, he's collecting the badger. Back at the White House. People don't realize the Roosevelt White House was essentially an unincorporated zoo. He had an ocelot, peacocks, nine horses, 18 dogs and a cats, guinea pigs. He donated a desert tortoise to the New York Bronx Zoo. So when he begins writing his kids about Josiah the badger, they're thrilled. It's just another family member coming home. And I think Roosevelt's love of nature and animals especially also gave him this great zest for life where he could relate and really interact with almost any living thing.
- [20:16]
Tyrus
Is that the badger behind you?
- [20:19]
Chris Epting
I'm so glad you asked that. There is a picture of a badger back there. There is a local artist here in Southern California, Tony Haas, who been working with. She's wonderful. You would appreciate her work in terms of what you went through for putting out the book about the horses and your daughter Georgie. And so we started putting her heads together. That is artwork she created for a potential. She said, you know what? We should do a children's book about Josiah the badger. Because Josiah, really, when Josiah gets back to the White House, in a nutshell, goes kind of crazy. Ripping up couches, chairs. May have killed a family cow being a badger. It's a badger being a badger.
- [20:55]
Tyrus
Or Harry, when the door's locked. Locked in here.
- [20:58]
Chris Epting
So. So Josiah winds up out at Sagamore Hill in Oyster Bay where Roosevelt lived and ultimately Josiah, as I uncover in the book, I found this series of kind of midnight correspondence where Josiah is secretly transported on a private White House train from Sagamore Hill to the Bronx Zoo, where he lives out the rest of his days and the family on taxpayer money. That's what they would say today, right? That would. Jose.
- [21:23]
Tyrus
That would be the argument. Well, I gotta be honest, because that's kind of a. Kind of a sexy little walk that badgers got, is like kind of flaunting it there swagger. That's badger swag. Yeah, he's a little swag.
- [21:36]
Unknown Female Speaker
Well, badgers are insane. Yeah, they're insane.
- [21:41]
Tyrus
They dig faster than four men with shelves okay.
- [21:44]
Chris Epting
So as we're talking here, I will provide. And hopefully they're up now. Images of one of the President's sons holding and playing with the badger at the White House. So, I mean, this was the Roosevelt family and Tyrus. This is where I think your connection with the animals would have been pure and real, because they live.
- [22:02]
Tyrus
Yeah, I want a badger. Now, as we think of it, do we have the budget?
- [22:05]
Unknown Female Speaker
Yeah, you could run around there.
- [22:06]
Tyrus
You can run around here. We could feed Ryan to him, name him Josiah.
- [22:11]
Chris Epting
Bring back Josiah 2. And then we'll come back when the kids book is out and he can rip up a copy on it.
- [22:18]
Tyrus
Well, there was. I remember, a little off topic. There were badgers when I was a kid. The jelly sandwich storybooks, the bedtime.
- [22:25]
Unknown Female Speaker
Yeah.
- [22:25]
Tyrus
So there was a little bit of that presence. But again, that's an amazing story that I think would attract kids to want to learn about the President. You know, it seems like, because I'm. And we're going to get into his relationship with the Buffalo Soldiers, and hopefully I get a picture because I got the Tuskegee guys up here. I would love to put.
- [22:43]
Chris Epting
I got it.
- [22:44]
Tyrus
You don't worry about if. And, you know, we. We don't have a problem putting a. A swag badger up on the wall here. That's.
- [22:51]
Unknown Female Speaker
Yeah.
- [22:51]
Tyrus
Very cool. Maybe we get an autographed copy. I'm just. I'm just saying. But. But when you hear these things about. We're not even talking about him as a president or policy, it's just. It's an amazing life. And to be that, to be able to bring all those kind of things, I think, think the White House having horses and badgers and peacocks and stuff is awesome. I would want to go to the White House all the time now. All you have now is, like, statues and old people.
- [23:21]
Chris Epting
You know what's cool, too, that we're talking about Roosevelt this year. On the 4th of July this year, the Theodore Roosevelt Presidential Library opens in North Dakota, which is another kind of exciting thing where they'll unpack these stories as well. And I think that's going to. We'll have to meet out there, maybe do like a remote version of this on location in Maduro, North Dakota.
- [23:42]
Tyrus
Maybe we could have Harry go out and capture a badger.
- [23:45]
Unknown Female Speaker
I'm capable of doing that.
- [23:46]
Tyrus
Yeah. And then for the thing. Badgers are. Like I said, there are. I guess I could see where he could. Could find a connection. They're tough. They're resilient. Resilient.
- [23:57]
Chris Epting
Well, no, you're right.
- [23:58]
Tyrus
They're not afraid of hard work.
- [24:00]
Chris Epting
Exactly. And what's the fact that you said that his kids commented later in life that they love, loved Josiah the badger because it reminded them of their father. The tenacity, the stubbornness, the, the, you know, just the intensity. They looked at that as almost a manifestation of their dad. So you're right. There is that definite connection between TR and badger.
- [24:22]
Tyrus
And one of the cool things, again, because I'm an animal nut, one of the things about badgers is that they collaborate. They form friendships with coyotes. They do. I'm just saying they do.
- [24:31]
Chris Epting
Remember that video where it wandered that.
- [24:33]
Tyrus
Yeah.
- [24:33]
Chris Epting
Wasn't that a badger that wandered off into the night with the coyote with that close circuit film camera picked it up.
- [24:39]
Tyrus
That's how they get a prairie dog, is he digs them out. If they stay down, the badger gets him. If he comes up, the coyote gets. But it just says like it's, it's such a little compact creature that it's, they're so diverse. It's so cool when you get to like learn about him. And the more I get to learn about Roosevelt, he's becoming my favorite president from the past because he's just, he was doing so many things and it just. We keep thinking about today where everything's an email. It's. You get things done in a second, you get a camera, you have staff. Like he was doing a lot of these things in a forest.
- [25:15]
Chris Epting
Listen.
- [25:16]
Tyrus
Yeah, it's just crazy. Like there was no mail. I mean, if you sent a letter to Washington, he would have to wait, what, a month to get a response.
- [25:24]
Chris Epting
You know, like it's the agency telegraph. Yeah, it's an entire world. I mean, in Yosemite the other day, for a moment I had to catch myself. I wasn't getting strong signal. And I was right by Glacier Point where he camped the second night. And I thought, wait a minute, it's May 1903. They're out there in the open. Muir has just lit a hundred foot dead tree on fire as a gift for Roosevelt. Roosevelt dances around it screaming, hurrah for Yosemite. This is a candle that it took 500 nature 500 years to make. These guys are communing on a natural level for the purity of the moment. There's no falling, there's no nothing. You know, and you think, I would
- [26:06]
Tyrus
have brought the beer, I would have brought the beer to that. That would have been, that would have been a bonfire party of Epic was just sitting around and I bet he would have amazing stories, you know, and it's just in this day and age where everything is just so angry. And to learn things about a president during that time, especially, like I said, his relationship with Buffalo soldiers. We hear so much today about how our history is just laced with horrible racism. And not to say that there wasn't, but I think when you tell a story, you have to tell both sides. You have to show there had to be. We wouldn't have got the changes that we had had there not been people like Roosevelt, people of all walks of color that banded together because unity is what makes change. One group can't make change.
- [26:57]
Chris Epting
Absolutely.
- [26:58]
Tyrus
And for him to be. And he had a record of that. He cared more about contact of character than pigment. And this is in 19. You know, this is. And we're now in. Where everything is now trying to go back to your pigment opposed to your character, because it's less responsibility.
- [27:16]
Chris Epting
Look, Roosevelt, when he hosted Booker T. Washington at the White House, that was the very first time a black man had dinner at the White House. Roosevelt's family was present. And as I detail in the book that got everybody upset, both sides. I can't repeat to you now words that were used in certain newspaper editorials about that event. You know, so Roosevelt had already done. You know, and then. Look, Roosevelt wasn't perfect. There's an incident a number of years later, the Brownsville incident, where he judged a group a crime that took place in Texas, where I think he was misinformed. I don't think it was necessarily him acting with all the facts, but nevertheless, you look back on, it wasn't a great moment for him. But you've got to put these things on a scale and see does the good outweigh the bad? It absolutely does. And that's why, again, when he learns the Buffalo Soldiers are in San Francisco, he knew how good they were. He knew that without them, he probably wouldn't have won the accolades that he did alongside the Rough Riders and may not have even become president out there or vice president first. So he respected them. And that's why I love that there's film footage. We can see Brigadier General Charles Young leading the group that's in charge of Roosevelt that day. And so it is monumental what he did. This is my book focuses, obviously, on a very narrow slice of Roosevelt, but it does represent a lot of what he was all about.
- [28:37]
Tyrus
Well, it's what captivated me because I've read Brett Bears and. And. And Brian Kilmade's books, and it was Kill Me focus more on. On Booker T. And Roosevelt. I mean, bar more about his life in general as like an overview. And then you kind of cut a piece of the pie that kind of connects the books. Like you're the, the, the centerpiece in those books where you took a moment in time, but there were so many interesting things, fascinating, unbelievable things. Honest, when you look at the time of when this was happening, that it really just gave me a completely different outlook and respect for him. I think sometimes you get caught up in the political stuff and you're like, I'm being honest, but dude had a badger. You know what I'm saying? Like, that was his support animal.
- [29:30]
Chris Epting
It had the harness.
- [29:31]
Unknown Female Speaker
The red harness.
- [29:31]
Tyrus
It had the red harness and everything. Yeah, that entire. Can you imagine on the plane. Sir, can you get your badger? How. This is my emotional support badger. How dare you.
- [29:42]
Unknown Female Speaker
It's like ripping up the seat.
- [29:43]
Tyrus
He's like, he's eating my wife's leg. Sir, just let him finish.
- [29:47]
Unknown Female Speaker
Let him finish.
- [29:48]
Chris Epting
It ties to your point. Roosevelt gave all of us writers a lot to work with. I mean, there's another wonderful book called the river of Doubt by Candice Millard, which is all about Roosevelt's circumnavigating an Amazon river, which is a highly recommended title as well. Where you. This is after he's president and he almost dies numerous times. Other people do die on this trip, but again, Roosevelt, there's not one point in his life that's boring. There's no little period like we've all got in our lives. Not a lot happening. Roosevelt, it seems like every single moment of his life was interesting, conflict ridden, triumph ridden. It was just. There was always so much going on that we'll be able to write about him for a long time.
- [30:30]
Tyrus
I think HR Would have a problem with today's president taking trips everywhere. Like, you're going to the Amazon for what? Like, what's the expense report on that? New discoveries, you know? Well, and then he. He's been in a forest for two weeks. How is, how can we. And then he makes. Oh, I'm. Let's make it a 4. It's protected. You know, like, I think, I think he got in the presidency and he's like, we're. He's the president. I'm gonna go on the world's longest vacation.
- [30:57]
Chris Epting
He couldn't have officiated.
- [30:59]
Tyrus
I don't. Yeah, I don't. I don't think a man like that could have just sat in the office and signed.
- [31:03]
Chris Epting
No, I, I totally agree. And he was definitely itching to get away when he took this nine week trip. Now again, Congress wasn't in session. It's a fairly quiet time in the world, so he was lucky. There's no other time, I think where he could have accommodated that. You know, nine weeks out, 14,000 miles away. But thankfully it worked out because again, it was, you know, it's really fascinating when he reaches out to John Muir. His letter, as I'll send to you, is written on White House stationery. Now, the year before Roosevelt officially names the White House, it goes from being the Executive Mansion. That's another thing he did did was formally named at the White House. And you see Roosevelt's letter to Muir on this nice White House stationary. The response that he gets back from Muir is kind of hand scrawled pencil, you know, accepting a trip. So you see the two different kind of people these guys are. And that's what I also think the magic is in them getting together. Roosevelt is a boisterous, outward external guy. Muir is not. Muir is a quiet, introspective wanderer. So the fact that they could find common ground up there is another special aspect aspect of the camping trip.
- [32:06]
Tyrus
You know, I kind of wish you wouldn't have said that he named the White House. I can see the woke now going. Breaking news. They just figured out, yes, we need to change the name to the person house.
- [32:21]
Unknown Female Speaker
Person house, yeah, Badger.
- [32:23]
Tyrus
The Badger House.
- [32:24]
Chris Epting
The House of Josiah.
- [32:26]
Tyrus
Yeah. Which interesting name. I'd be curious to where that name choice. Cause I would think of a name for a badger like Buzz.
- [32:34]
Chris Epting
The little girl's father was Josiah. And so.
- [32:37]
Tyrus
Okay, that's right, you told me I was not.
- [32:39]
Chris Epting
Which was a nice sort of acknowledgment, you know. But the thing is, the badger lives in his train car, the Elysian, this beautiful presidential car. Mahogany, teak, velvet, all that. And you've got a badger like for.
- [32:53]
Tyrus
I wonder what the staff was like, who's feeding the badger this morning I
- [32:57]
Unknown Female Speaker
was like, I'm not feeding the badger.
- [32:57]
Tyrus
Like this is before the intern.
- [32:59]
Chris Epting
Well, you know. No, that's a funny point though, because that's a great point. The press that was on the car, the journalists, they figured out that to get to Roosevelt for a little one on one, if you brought the badger like milk and a biscuit, that was your ticket in. Like that or a ground squirrel. It all worked out. And you know, he, Josiah played a role there in terms of getting the
- [33:22]
Tyrus
press involved, you know, because we're laughing and having fun talking about just how cool Roosevelt was, you know, and that's. And when you talk about it, something like this takes you back and makes you more interested in that time because it was just such an amazing, amazing period in our, in our history to have so many. He's doing this meanwhile running a country and actually doing a pretty damn good job.
- [33:50]
Chris Epting
Exactly. Taris, you know, another aspect of this, when he gets to the, a little town called Raymond, he's about to go to Yosemite. He meets John Muir in Raymond Raymond little town that's still there today. They get on a stagecoach and travel almost 11 hours to get to Yosemite in a stagecoach. And that's where the bonding really starts to kick in. And you realize like I spoke up there a few nights ago at Yosemite and a guy comes up to me after and he goes, he introduces himself, he said, my great grandfather was the stagecoach driver that took Roosevelt and Muir back to Raymond. And he was describing what that was like back then. Again, the President of the United, United States in a stagecoach, 10, 11 hours to get back to his train. It's another world. And I spoke in this kind of natural amphitheater next to this big train steam train that took us down. And part of the stagecoach route is right there. And I'm looking at it thinking the President. Give me that era when the President of the United States is at about hour nine right down there on that stage.
- [34:53]
Tyrus
Yeah, that's probably why the speeches were so long. You had nothing to do but the Right. Because that's a long time. You have to either really get along or there's a murder. I mean it's feast of. Just think about, I got a two and a half hour flight and I'm sitting in that first seat. Like I don't think I'm going to make it. Yeah, I think I'm going to.
- [35:10]
Chris Epting
Like the logistics, make you rethink everything. And in terms of logistics, they left I believe April 1, 1903 or April 2 and they plan to get back June 4. They got back on June 4. You couldn't plan that today. A nine week trip with stagecoaches and trains and horses and get back the day you planned on getting back. I mean think about that, that they were able to even nail that down.
- [35:35]
Tyrus
Yeah, because I'm assuming the traffic jams weren't as bad. Yes, but, but then you had to worry about things like outlaws.
- [35:42]
Chris Epting
Outlaws, weather. Yeah, all kinds of things.
- [35:44]
Tyrus
Scarlet fever, taking out the badger. Yeah, you gotta walk the badger every night. Can't just leave him in the stagecoach wait.
- [35:52]
Unknown Female Speaker
So I have a quick question. Obviously, back then, it took longer for word to travel. I heard that Abraham Lincoln, when he disagreed with someone, he would write a letter, put it in a drawer on his desk, and then wait a week and then open the letter and see if he still felt the same way about it. Do you think that overall that was just a good thing, that it took longer for word to travel?
- [36:15]
Chris Epting
I do. It's so funny you say that, because I'm thinking today of, like, what reply all can do to a career.
- [36:22]
Tyrus
I wish my wife would do that now.
- [36:25]
Chris Epting
That's amazing when you think about it. Yeah. Everything just took longer. And, you know, the fact that there were no microphones, people. Most people couldn't hear Roosevelt's formal speeches on this trip. What they would do is they would be released that morning and printed in the newspaper so that people could at least know what was being said. So just the communication of the age, to your point, is so radically different.
- [36:46]
Tyrus
Didn't there used to be guys who would come to town and read it? Like, they would read the. I think. I think there was a movie Tom Hanks played in where he was. He would come into a town and read what was going on with the world. And, like, people generally didn't. Had no idea what was going on.
- [37:01]
Chris Epting
The town crier. Yeah.
- [37:02]
Tyrus
Yes. Yeah. And he would come and he, like, he would read the President's speech or he would tell you what was going on, or even, like, movie theaters also.
- [37:10]
Chris Epting
That was the Brett bear of the day.
- [37:12]
Tyrus
Yeah. You'd go to the movies, you'd see a weird cartoon, a silent movie, and newspaper articles that would just pop up and everyone would read, and they'd be like, flash news. Roosevelt finds badger.
- [37:24]
Chris Epting
That comes just a little bit later. But that newsreels were definitely part of that. I mean, 1903 is an interesting year. It's the year, as I said, the teddy bear comes out. The crayon is first released in 1903. It's the first world series. The Wright brothers fly a kitty hawk. The world is definitely in a lot of. Of tumult and motion at that point. And smack in the middle of it, you've got the great loop tour, which is this again, presidential gypsy caravan carnival with a badger and all kinds of things going on. That, again, it's a story unto itself, the trip. And then on top of it, you've got the camping trip with John Muir, the buffalo soldiers. It's such an epic chapter of American history that not a lot of people know About.
- [38:06]
Tyrus
No. So I guess the question. I'm assuming, what was the inspiration for this? Given there's so much stuff out there, what was it that was like, hey, I need to write about this?
- [38:18]
Chris Epting
What?
- [38:18]
Tyrus
Really? Because this is. Like I said, there's so much stuff out there. And you've always kind of been a historian, so was the timing right? What was lightning in a bottle? What brought you to.
- [38:31]
Chris Epting
It's a little bit of everything. Look, I'm a big Theodore Roosevelt guy. I'll always be fascinated by him. To me, he's the Babe Ruth of politics. He just changed the weather, you know, so there's always that. I love national parks. That drives a lot of it. So I love origin stories. How did these things come to be. Roosevelt's piece of. That is definitely part of it. And I like untold stories or stories that if they have been told, there are angles of them that are unexplored. And when I first learned about the Roosevelt Muir camping trip, that, to me, in and of itself, was so crazy that you could. Could again right after the President is assassinated, you know, McKinley, that Roosevelt is telling his staff, I'm going into the woods with a guy you've never heard of, and you're not coming with me. I'm not gonna have protection. They didn't think Muir was gonna assassinate him. But what if his horse fell down
- [39:19]
Tyrus
a cliff, got lost or not told him there's a bear behind you. I mean, it's not. Or a mountain lion or a wolf. It's not like, you know where numbers were down in Yosemite, you know, like, I'm pretty sure that the squirrels hit. They were just like. Yeah, they were like. You doing here? This is my tree. You know what I mean? Like, so I just. To go out there, that wasn't like glamping. No.
- [39:49]
Chris Epting
It's funny. Glamping. What's really interesting is in the book, I include some of the newspaper accounts, and the newspapers love it. They are all celebrating Roosevelt, the adventure. We don't know where he is. There was something about it that was so romantic. And adventure today would be the exact opposite back then, you know, today, if you let your kids play with a baby badger, they'd lock you up, you know, but it was a different world.
- [40:13]
Tyrus
I mean, it just, you know, it
- [40:15]
Unknown Female Speaker
depends if it's an emotional support.
- [40:17]
Tyrus
Yeah, it depends if they find out. Because while we're talking, I've been scamming Google for badger adoption. Apparently, it's not. Not out there.
- [40:24]
Chris Epting
Not yet.
- [40:25]
Tyrus
You know, I think another Thing that, like, when I look at this, that really just kind of throws me. And you said that like today you couldn't do these things. Today you can do these things. I would argue if a president or a leader were to go out and do things that people would relate to, I think it would change the gap. I think it would. I think one of the things, and I don't want to make this all political, but one of the big things I think that people were really impressed by was President Trump being at McDonald's. Now I'm not comparing that to being in the woods for a week.
- [41:00]
Chris Epting
No, I know what you mean.
- [41:00]
Tyrus
But it is something to like there was something, there's a relatability. Yeah, yeah. You know, and I think if anyone's running for office with legitimate idea mind to do good, to connect and make change, not to make profit. Teddy Roosevelt would be the blue book in terms of relatability, you know, to the common God, people like myself who will get behind. Oh yeah. Someone who's willing to, to, you know, because we've all at one point, another either been in a drive thru or worked at a drive through, you know what I'm saying? Like, and that's something for the most powerful person in the world to be. Handing out french fries I thought was very Roosevelt esque in terms of again, different levels, but still I hadn't seen any. I don't think we ever would have saw Barack Obama handing out french fries.
- [41:51]
Chris Epting
Well, I think today they would say it's on brand. I mean, the fact that he already is a fan of McDonald's makes it feel real because it isn't just like they're doing it. They've actually got some history and connection to it, you know, And I do think Roosevelt would relate. I mean, look, when he rides down from Glacier Point that day, he's riding over Sentinel Bridge on his horse and a little kid yells out, hi, Ted Roosevelt stops, gets off his horse and admonishes this kid that, that is not how you talk to adults. And he got a lot of credit for doing that. And the parents of course were aghast. They were so apologetic. You'd get flack for that today for correcting.
- [42:29]
Tyrus
Oh, he got flak on both ends. He got a reprimand from the President and an ass whooping from mom and dad or, you know, and I guess like I said, there was, I guess I had a Roosevelt moment when I, I was in Yosemite, I was showing my daughter how to skip rocks and a kid was climbing rocks and threw his Sprite can down in the water. And I was like, hey, we don't pick that up, you know, and walk it over to your parents. Like, we don't litter here. And the parents, of course, the dad immediately, like, he stood up and then realized I was taller than him sitting on the rock. And he for a moment thought bigfoot just yelled at my kid. But he. But, you know, there was that moment. There was that moment where he was like, I can't believe he did that. You know, and it's in today's days. Like, oh, how could you dare raise your. Like, no, he pro. I guarantee you that story was probably at every dinner, you know, that, like, no matter what that kid did, you know, his mom is going to bring it up. You know, he's just. Yeah, I guess you have a lot to say. You want to smart mouth the president again, young man. Like, you know, he probably doesn't remember it because whoopings back then were significantly different. Like, the whole family probably got one in on.
- [43:42]
Chris Epting
I love that Roosevelt looked at everything as kind of a teaching moment. And it's like, you could have easily let that go, but it wasn't. It was. He got down and could you just imagine?
- [43:52]
Tyrus
The kid's sitting there and he sees the. He's just sitting there like, oh, man, I'm gonna. Hey, Teddy. President's like, whoa. Hops off. Like, who? No, no, no, no, no, no, no. He old enough to talk. He. He. When come over here and say to. Hey, we're the badger. Bring him up.
- [44:07]
Unknown Female Speaker
Look at the badger.
- [44:07]
Tyrus
Yeah, let's put him in a box of the badger as well. All right, kid. But that's awesome. Like, I would. That would be a great moment. You know, just like you got punked by the president.
- [44:16]
Unknown Female Speaker
Well, now that'd be all over X. Oh, it'd be.
- [44:18]
Tyrus
Yeah, it would be all over President Punk's child.
- [44:20]
Chris Epting
Yeah. No, it'd be crazy. But. But again, there's so many moments like that in this book on that triple. Roosevelt's got these moments with people and he makes the most of it. Has clearly is having a lot of fun. Sees the Grand Canyon for the first time. Sees Yellowstone for the first time. Is just absorbing America. That's why I think for this year in particular, it's a great story because it's a story of discovery and it's Roosevelt discovering America in real time, in real places, in places he's never been. And this sense of wonder and awe. You know, there's a picture of him on the train. They would let him ride up front and, like, yank the whistle on the steam engine. It's like he was like a big kid on this train. And I think that's what also people related to and love from both sides back then. Just to see somebody who's youthful. He's the youngest president at that point. He's 44 years old, and he's out there doing all this, which is like 70.
- [45:13]
Unknown Female Speaker
Yeah.
- [45:14]
Tyrus
Back then, let's, you know, like.
- [45:16]
Chris Epting
That's true. That's true.
- [45:18]
Unknown Female Speaker
Chris was there. If you were to make a job description for the Buffalo Soldiers in regard to them protecting Yosemite, like, what would that job description be?
- [45:29]
Chris Epting
Oh, my God. Everything from carving out the first roads to chasing out poachers to stopping fires. It was their world. I mean, anything that needed to be done, they were mapping terrain. They were, I mean, really, you know, keeping a record of what was there, you know, notating the nature. They were doing top to bottom, bottom, research. Recovery, recovery, rescue. Anything that needed to be done, they were formulating what that place needed to be and what it was, what it could be. It's significant what they did there. And you think about them, how they're treated in society at that point. It didn't stop them from going out and doing the best jobs each time. The Buffalo Soldier story is remarkable. These were some of the most successful fighting troops in America, American history, you know, and loyal to a fault. So it really is an amazing story. And you see these images of them out there at Yosemite when there's nothing around for my. It's just them out there.
- [46:32]
Tyrus
I was captivated by the photos you sent, and I was just like, we have to talk about this.
- [46:37]
Chris Epting
Yeah, it's amazing.
- [46:38]
Tyrus
It's an amazing thing. And, you know, given the president that we have in office right now, we might need to bring a resurrection of Buffalo soldiers to protect our national parks. Like, well, what a great. I might have to pitch that idea.
- [46:55]
Chris Epting
That can be our next.
- [46:57]
Tyrus
Yeah. It would be an amazing tribute to a time, and it would inspire young people to go back and look at great moments in our history because social media is flooded with the ugliness. And most of the ugliness isn't even accurate in a lot of situations. But it's hard to argue the greatness of America when you see at a time when it would been easy for those men, those brave men that were in the bus, to be like, I'm not doing anything for this country because this country won't do anything for me. And we See that today in a lot of people. Well, I'm black. And like I said, I'm black or I'm this or I'm that. So the country's against me. No, no, sit it with a Q and A with, with them.
- [47:42]
Chris Epting
Yeah.
- [47:42]
Tyrus
You know what I'm saying? Like read their story. They did it with actual real walls and barriers.
- [47:47]
Chris Epting
Absolutely.
- [47:48]
Tyrus
And were so great that they changed the course of our country, knowing full well that most of them would go into a restaurant with their uniform and not be served or let in. That to me is American exceptionist. That is what inspired the American dream. And when you see someone sitting on their nice house under their keyboard talking about they're oppressed. Oppression is not an ending. It was the roots of beginning and the bad. That's why you appreciate their sacrifice. That's true patriotism in the most purest sense, I think.
- [48:25]
Chris Epting
Well, it's funny, in my books I tend to retrace a lot of these footsteps. That's why Yosemite. I went to all three places when they camped. I remember once being in San Francisco on the street where the film footage was shot, where Roosevelt passes with buffalo soldiers. And I was standing there thinking, what did the people on the street think when they saw this? You know, no one's explaining it, but here's the President in his horse and carriage and he's surrounded by black soldiers. What are they possibly thinking? You know, was it really written about in the press at that time? He just didn't. It was kind of a last minute thing as well. And so it's, you know. But people love hearing these stories. The other day at Yosemite, I was at. There's a mark. The one marker in Yosemite that marks the camping trip is where they spent night three at Bridal Veil Falls. A little marker there, a little sign that I was standing there on the anniversary date, May 17, 1903. Only was 2026. And this family came over. They're from India originally, about seven or eight of them. And we started talking and I had a copy, I gave them a copy of the book. I was explaining to them why I was there, why I was kind of paying tribute and homage. And they leaned in to a degree. They were so taken with the story about Lincoln, about the buffal soldiers. It's so engaging for people, I think, especially outside of our country too, because look, a lot of Americans don't know this outside of our country. Even fewer people know about it. And I think it's a great point of entry to learn about this period in time, if you're coming in. Because it really does make a lot of great positive statements about the country.
- [49:54]
Tyrus
You know, another thing, too, while we're thinking about it, is we should have gotten badger. Teddy badgers with teddy bears. Maybe there's still time, Harry.
- [50:05]
Unknown Female Speaker
There's always time.
- [50:05]
Tyrus
There's time. You know, maybe this will launch.
- [50:07]
Chris Epting
I think you see back here? That's going to be it.
- [50:10]
Tyrus
Yep. That's a. That's a sexy badger picture. I mean, the more I look at it, it's just. He's just got it. Like, he's just bringing it. And he's. He's built. He's. That's actually what buff people looked like back then, because they would all wear their pants up to here. And they all.
- [50:27]
Unknown Female Speaker
Badger.
- [50:27]
Tyrus
Look at that badger. Just. Just a sexy beast right there. Just strolling, just putting his best paw forward.
- [50:33]
Unknown Female Speaker
You got.
- [50:34]
Tyrus
That's what America is all about.
- [50:37]
Unknown Female Speaker
And the badger. Like, I've seen videos of badgers fighting, like, black bears.
- [50:41]
Tyrus
Yeah.
- [50:41]
Unknown Female Speaker
And like.
- [50:42]
Tyrus
Yeah.
- [50:42]
Unknown Female Speaker
Like, freaking out.
- [50:43]
Chris Epting
Some of the most aggressive.
- [50:45]
Tyrus
I mean, they're just. Yeah. And super, super soft fur. I've actually pet one before.
- [50:52]
Chris Epting
Of course you have.
- [50:53]
Tyrus
No, because I was in Nebraska and. And, you know, you would. They would hunt because farmers like them. Not for the digging, because. But it's a lot easier for a horse or cow to move around a badger hole than a prairie dog hole, you know, and that's a good way of getting rid of them is with badgers. But we would, I think was like a petting zoo where they had, like, one that was. She was a little older and, like, you could feel the bristles in their hair and stuff. But never once was I like, yo, this is a presidential animal. I mean, the bald eagle got it, the bear got it.
- [51:28]
Chris Epting
Right.
- [51:29]
Tyrus
Why? Was it because the badger's black and white? Is that why?
- [51:32]
Chris Epting
Maybe it's. Maybe we'll change with all of this.
- [51:34]
Tyrus
Couldn't have a badger in the White House, apparently.
- [51:37]
Chris Epting
Sagamore Hill, the Roosevelt home, which is a museum you can go visit. There's this. I was out there a couple of years ago. There's a stuffed badger under a chair, and I asked if that was Josiah. The woman said, no, but it's an homage. The family wanted a badger here, here. Because Josiah actually meant a lot. Again, when you read the words of the kids they adored. It was their favorite animal at the White House.
- [51:58]
Tyrus
So Josiah's legacy is a social media page.
- [52:01]
Unknown Female Speaker
Yeah. I think I've been mixing up wolverines and badgers this entire time.
- [52:05]
Tyrus
Have you? Yeah, well, they're cousins.
- [52:07]
Unknown Female Speaker
Well, is a badger significantly smaller than a wolverine?
- [52:11]
Tyrus
It depends which species. Wolverines are a little bigger, but not much. Badgers are like, they're, they're tall, their legs are long, longer.
- [52:18]
Unknown Female Speaker
Okay.
- [52:18]
Tyrus
They're more, they're quicker. They climb trees. You know, they're a little more. There's a little bit more size, but it's the same genome. You know, they're both vicious. Big bite powered. Badgers are built for going under things and wolverines are built for going through and above. But both bears in general will go the other way.
- [52:37]
Chris Epting
I think Roosevelt would have liked you, Tyrus. The fact that you could riff on that like that. I think he would have taken a real.
- [52:43]
Tyrus
We definitely would have gone. I think we definitely would have gone. Got along.
- [52:46]
Unknown Female Speaker
Yeah.
- [52:46]
Tyrus
And we both. I could also have worn the pants that way. I would have been like Arnold Schwarzenegger back then. Just traps and high pants. Like that was what's. I look at the pictures and stuff. Like he wasn't, he wasn't the pillar of, of health, but it was like actually I'm looking at my action figure right there. You see how they had the pants that on.
- [53:06]
Unknown Female Speaker
But with me, he would have been like, what do you mean? You don't know the difference between a badger and a wolverine?
- [53:11]
Tyrus
Yes.
- [53:11]
Unknown Female Speaker
Well, like get out of the White
- [53:12]
Tyrus
House off the coach. Are you going to stop? No, no, we can't. We have to be. We have 11 hours.
- [53:18]
Unknown Female Speaker
Put me in the badger.
- [53:19]
Tyrus
Here's the thing. If it happened at the beginning of the trip, right. By the time we got there, you would have been a scientist on, on badgers. Because that's a lot. That's a long time. 11 hours. And a coach wasn't like there was a break room. You know, it was like a coach. It was just. You just stared at each other. Well, what I want to do.
- [53:40]
Chris Epting
But. But when Roosevelt is camping with Muir Door, who's looking after the badger? I can't find any account of that. Which is kind of funny. Like someone was charged with taking care of Josiah while Roosevelt is off on his.
- [53:52]
Tyrus
I'm thinking maybe it was the situation where the badger was tied up somewhere.
- [53:55]
Chris Epting
Yeah. That's maybe neglected.
- [53:58]
Unknown Female Speaker
It was super smart. And Teddy was like, he'll run and he'll come. Like he'll come back.
- [54:01]
Tyrus
He'll come back. Yeah. And if he doesn't, quick, we need another badger, you know, and the poor intern. Where, where does one get a. He get it done badger.
- [54:13]
Chris Epting
By the Way. You know what I found interesting to getting back for a minute in the. In the official White House account of the great Loop tour, this crazy nine week trip, there's no mention of Josiah or, or John Muir. They don't account for the camping trip. And part of me thinks is they didn't. I don't. This is just my speculation. They didn't want to document it too heavily because the level of irresponsibility. Had something happened to Roosevelt out there, thinking the heads that would have rolled because at that point Roosevelt did not have a vice president when McKinley was killed.
- [54:45]
Tyrus
Because that's what I was gonna ask, like who was running the show.
- [54:48]
Chris Epting
There was no contingency for an assassination where 1905. I think they changed it. But Roosevelt didn't have a vice president his first term. So if anything happens to him out there, it's kind of a weird moment. And that's why I think maybe it's not documented.
- [55:02]
Tyrus
He would have been if something would have happened to him. Would they have to do another election?
- [55:07]
Chris Epting
No. There's got to be some chain of command that would have gotten you there. I don't know it often, but that's
- [55:12]
Tyrus
actually kind of clever seeing how assassination was popular back then. If you don't have a number two, they can't. Well, can't. Well, we'll wait.
- [55:20]
Unknown Female Speaker
That's also so nails that he was like, I don't need a backup.
- [55:23]
Tyrus
Yeah, I'm not going anywhere.
- [55:25]
Unknown Female Speaker
He's just like, I'm fine.
- [55:26]
Tyrus
Yeah. I have four speeches in my pocket.
- [55:29]
Chris Epting
I'm safe, right? No, no bear is going to rip
- [55:32]
Tyrus
through that speech book, you know. And you know what? I always, always enjoy our talks. And again, where can everybody get the book?
- [55:39]
Chris Epting
The book is available wherever books are sold. I mean, you know, Barnes and Noble, Amazon, Barnes and Noble, Amazon, every place. Yeah. Theodore Roosevelt in California. The presidential adventure that saved the wilderness from the history press. I'm super proud of it. Thank you, guys. I mean, I appreciate the passion, the energy. It's a fun story. I know you get it. And it's always fun to talk like this with you, Tyrus. You know that.
- [56:01]
Tyrus
And to be clear, we are getting a copy of the Sexy Baby Badger because we have a. I've got you covered.
- [56:08]
Chris Epting
Trust me. You're getting the badger, you're getting the book.
- [56:10]
Tyrus
You hear that, Harry?
- [56:12]
Unknown Female Speaker
Yeah. Tyrus can't stop talking about the sexy badger.
- [56:14]
Tyrus
I'm sorry. It's just, it's just the, the confidence, you know, I wish I walked like that, you know, I wish I could just swag in the afternoon, everyone. You know, it's just. You're getting your chummy, and he knows it first, doesn't care.
- [56:27]
Chris Epting
We'll talk about it then. And you know. Again.
- [56:30]
Tyrus
Yeah, please.
- [56:30]
Chris Epting
Always good to mix it up with you, man. Again, it's one thing to work on books with you, but when you come at it like this. I know your love of. I know you're a student of American history, so I was excited to kind of get your take on this, and it's just.
- [56:43]
Tyrus
It's awesome. And I know I'm talking about the badger because I want. I think the badger is. Is. Is a lure to bring people in. I really do. Because when you think about. When you hear presidents are like, you know. And I was like, wait, he did what?
- [56:57]
Chris Epting
I couldn't agree more. The badger in this day and age
- [56:59]
Tyrus
where nobody wants to go to work.
- [57:00]
Chris Epting
No, no, no.
- [57:01]
Unknown Female Speaker
Not.
- [57:01]
Chris Epting
You're.
- [57:01]
Tyrus
You have a president who just never showed up to the office.
- [57:04]
Chris Epting
The badger is done. The floor for Roosevelt. Absolutely. I think that's why the kids loved it so much. No joking aside, there is something about that badger that sort of represents his whole life. And the fact that he would do that tells you everything you need to know about Theodore Roosevelt.
- [57:21]
Tyrus
And I think. And it's awesome. It's a little nuance that shows his character and his heart. And I think. And I think that you go there jokingly to read about a badger and you learn about a time in history in our country that was amazing and shaped the. The way we do things. And led to me, someone like me chilling on a. On a thing, running the show, you know, and I think that's a beautiful thing. So the more people. Whatever it takes to. I was. When I was teaching history to third graders. Good luck. Whatever got them in the door, like trying to convince them that Pokemon could lead to American history is a. Is a tough sell, but it works. So in this case, we didn't need Pokemon. We have a badger. Just. Just. I'm sorry. It's just. He's just. He's just sway. It's just swag.
- [58:14]
Chris Epting
I love that you love Josiah Tyrus. And I've got you covered. Don't worry. I promise.
- [58:18]
Tyrus
I appreciate it again, thank you so much. Till next time.
- [58:20]
Chris Epting
Yes. Thank you, boss. Talk to soon you soon.
- [58:33]
Tyrus
Every act of change begins with a neighbor. When neighbors connect through the Feeding America
- [58:38]
Chris Epting
network, small actions ripple into lasting impact.
- [58:41]
Tyrus
Feeding America led by neighbors. Give now to endhunger@feedingamerica.org.