Mark (1:49)

Wow.

Tyrus (1:50)

Was. Was the battle outside the cage at that time, when that was coming out bigger than the battle inside.

Interviewer (1:56)

Yeah.

Mark (1:56)

That's crazy. So nobody's ever said that to me, honestly. And I've been asked every question.

Tyrus (2:03)

There's. There's three sports.

Mark (2:04)

Yeah.

Tyrus (2:05)

Stories that have lived in my head forever. One was my favorite basketball player, Lady Bias died of a. Yeah. And I remember where I was sitting at my house that day and I was. I remember crying. My mother was like, what are you crying about? You know, and then I remember watching that documentary, and I was like, I have never seen so much pain in somebody's eyes before. And it just. Because I. Later in my life, I saw that same look.

Mark (2:30)

Yeah.

Tyrus (2:30)

You know, and it's. Even though it's different, it was different world, but some of the pressures are

Mark (2:35)

the Same, you know, it's unreal. For me, it was unrelenting. You know, I put a lot of pressure on myself to the point where I didn't enjoy it.

Tyrus (2:47)

I didn't see that. I didn't see that.

Mark (2:48)

No. You know, a lot. So there's a couple things that I've talked about before. Like, at the time, the way that I justified it was I was trying to raise everybody up right around me, right? And I took on that responsibility of everybody in my atmosphere, I'm. I'm raising up. I'm creating a new standard. Right. At some point, it does lose its joy, you know, because there's. There's. There's. There's satisfaction I get in competition. Right. But at some point, it just. It didn't. It just stopped being that joy, and it became more of a.

Tyrus (3:23)

More of a job, you know, because that's the one thing is all the noise is outside, and that's supposed to be the safe place.

Mark (3:31)

Yeah.

Tyrus (3:32)

You know, and when that is no longer the safe place and that, for me, what stood out. Yeah, the best. Because I didn't see. When you had dominant victories and even in. In defeats, it was the same.

Mark (3:45)

Yeah, look, it was.

Tyrus (3:46)

And I just remember saying, like, well, I wonder what's going on? And as a young man who had no, I mean, little thing, you don't know shit when you're, you know, in your 20s. But I just remember looking at that going, man, I know what that feels like, being in the huddle and everyone else is fired up and I'm just not there. Yeah.

Mark (4:04)

You know, and that, you know, a lot of that was. It became harder and harder for me to inflict that kind of punishment on another person. I mean, it really did, because it, you know, to do it initially, I had to completely just internalize everything and get into a place emotionally that was pretty primitive. You know, it's just almost like. Like I. Even today look at myself walking in the ring and it's this look that I go, wow. It doesn't even look like me, you know, because it's this intensity of focus of, like, what I'm doing, doing. And you just. Like, for me, I just lost the ability to have any kind of pleasure, any kind of, you know, satisfaction from doing it, because it's. It's another level when you're. When you're doing that to another human being.

Tyrus (4:52)

And at that time, you know, martial arts and stuff has come a long way from them. There's a lot more rules in place. There's a lot More things that protect guys certainly better pay. Although that's a whole other conversation.

Mark (5:05)

Yeah.

Tyrus (5:05)

Where you were basically carrying the weight of the brand. The U.S. of the United States brand.

Mark (5:10)

Yeah. Yeah.

Tyrus (5:11)

And that's a lot of pressure every Other places, other countries there. I don't think it's the same pressure. Because you're supposed to be better because you're American.

Mark (5:21)

Yep. Yep. Oh, there is that.

Tyrus (5:22)

You're supposed to be Superman.

Mark (5:23)

There is that. And so, you know, it's even crazy. In Japan, they made the first T shirts. Real American Hero.

Tyrus (5:30)

Yeah.

Mark (5:30)

Was a T shirt. Right, right.

Tyrus (5:32)

In America. G.I. joe. That's all. I mean, as Real American Hero.

Mark (5:35)

And that was kind of the Superman moniker they gave me. Right. Like the. This is what we're representing you as. And a lot of that was the Japanese culture fighting over in Japan was a whole nother animal.

Tyrus (5:47)

Wrestling over there. It's an art form. It's a completely different way.

Mark (5:51)

Different culturally. It's a completely different, like, understanding, like I call the implied rules system. Like, you don't know you break the rules until you break the rules. Well, I didn't know the rule was there. And, like, you're supposed to know. I'm like, I.

Tyrus (6:04)

You know, like, it's also become like a haven. Like, Bass went there. A lot of guys go there.

Mark (6:08)

Yeah.

Tyrus (6:09)

To just get away from it. Because there, the. It's not necessarily about wins or losses. It's about the. The courage and honor to be in the ring. It's a different.

Mark (6:19)

Different. Different where.

Tyrus (6:20)

America. You're only as good as your last fight.

Mark (6:22)

Yep.

Tyrus (6:23)

You know, one week, you're on the Wheaties box, and you have a bad. You have a bad night. You have one bad night, and all of a sudden you're a bum.

Mark (6:29)

Yeah.

Tyrus (6:29)

You know.

Mark (6:30)

Yeah.

Tyrus (6:31)

And that to me. But that you. You carry that how. And if it was that hard in the ring, I could only imagine what life was like outside the ring. Relationships must have been really hard.

Mark (6:41)

Difficult. Difficult. And, you know, there's a lot of, you know, a lot of things that I've had to take responsibility for, you know, going just like, all right, listen, you know, I was an asshole. I mean, just the straight up truth, you know, I was hard on everybody around me. And, you know, it's almost like this. I was trying to figure it out, too.

Tyrus (7:05)

Yep.

Mark (7:06)

Right. So it was a lot easier at the point for me to pick all these things out and people around me and, you know, you're not doing this Right. You're not doing that. Right. You need to do this, you need to do that. Right. And, you know, it's like this full circle where. Through the filmmaking process and all of this stuff. And it gave me an opportunity to actually sit and watch it. And it was therapeutic because I think

Tyrus (7:32)

accountability is hard when you're. I always. When. And I. We are. We've walked a lot of the same paths, like. And I've. One of the things that. When I wrote my first book, the hardest thing for me to do, my goal was that the only villain in the book was me.

Mark (7:48)

Me. Yeah.

Tyrus (7:49)

And that's a hard thing to do. Oh, yeah. Because there's a lot of. A lot of years in my life where I wanted to blame trainers, agents, you know, you screwed up my deal. Why? I'm not a Detroit Lion. You did. No, no, no.

Mark (7:59)

Yeah.

Tyrus (8:00)

Maybe I should have met the club every night trying to impress everybody. Maybe. You know, like, when you. Wisdom's a wonderful thing, but it's. It's. It's always when it's over, you know,

Mark (8:09)

like, you look back and you're like,

Tyrus (8:10)

oh, what the hell? You know? But I always said that I was before my addiction stuff and my escapes. It always comes from the mindset. If you were looking for medicine.

Mark (8:23)

Yeah.

Tyrus (8:24)

It was never. And you were not intentionally trying to do things to hurt. You were trying to find a quick fix.

Mark (8:30)

Yeah.

Tyrus (8:30)

For. For a giant hole that you just couldn't fill. And.

Mark (8:33)

Yeah, that's it. Because this is a couple things here. So, like, I've tried to fill that hole with a bunch of stuff, man. I mean, you name it, I've tried it. And, you know, with people, places, things, objects, trips, this, that. And realizing that just for me, where I just totally missed it, that hole's filled by connection. I didn't get it. I didn't understand it. Like, these are objects. Right. I'm only going to get satisfaction for that moment, and then it's over. But the thing that I have figured out is that the thing I value is sitting down like this, connecting with another human being. It has more value and it resonates with me more than anything else going on in my life.

Tyrus (9:23)

Plus, when you're your real self. Because I remember doing interviews where the wall was so thick, you know, I had to come off a certain way. If I don't like a question asked, I'd become aggressive. You know, I had to maintain that I was always. I'm the best. I'm always in control.

Mark (9:35)

Yeah.

Tyrus (9:35)

You know, and that's not even. I think that's just A. A man who is not where he thinks he should be.

Mark (9:40)

Yeah.

Tyrus (9:41)

Because we set the bar unrealistically high,

Mark (9:44)

like out of reach.

Tyrus (9:46)

Yeah. And then we do dumb shit like I have to have this giant gold chain because that shows that I'm a badass and I'm successful.

Mark (9:52)

Yeah.

Tyrus (9:52)

But what I'm not telling you is my car payment's three months late. My girl's packing her bags.

Mark (9:57)

Yeah.

Tyrus (9:57)

Right. You know what I'm saying? You know, and at one point, I had three kids born in one year.

Mark (10:05)

Oh.

Tyrus (10:06)

You know what I'm saying, bro? And. But on TV I was, oh, hey, yeah. Tyrus Funkosaurus.

Mark (10:11)

Yeah.

Tyrus (10:11)

But I'm. Every day I come home, I'm trying to find a way out, not trying to own anything. Now they trap me, they trick me, you know, and all this that you go through, but then when you finally just kind of take a breath and like, I've got three gifts. Yeah. You know, and it goes from that to that, you know, and, and like I said, we walked a lot of the hurt. The hurt is hard. And because it's. As a man, it's. What. What was the hardest thing for you? Was it. That was looking in the mirror. The hardest thing.

Mark (10:43)

Oh, man. The hardest thing for me in this. I get emotional, I talk about it because it's like I have a 21 year old son. Right. And I've said this before, it's like I had one job and that's to protect that kid, to protect the innocence in him. And I it up. Right, Right.

Tyrus (11:06)

And that's not. That's bro. Hey. I got like.

Mark (11:08)

Hard for me to sit in that.

Tyrus (11:11)

Yeah.

Mark (11:11)

Hard. Because I'm like, I have a great relationship with him now, but there was a period of time where he didn't trust me. Didn't matter what I said. Didn't matter at all. Just didn't trust me at all. And it broke my heart.

Tyrus (11:26)

That is the, the worst pain.

Mark (11:28)

Ah. I mean it still, it still chews

Tyrus (11:31)

me up and it. But that's the. If it didn't. That's the problem.

Mark (11:35)

Yeah, that would be a problem because,

Tyrus (11:37)

you know, I was my escape. I'm on the road. I'm on the road, I'm working. I'm putting a roof over their heads, you know, and you get to that. Then there comes that moment because for me, my thing was I didn't want my son to be like me. I don't want my daughters to be like, yeah, I'm twisted. I. My. I played sports. Angry.

Mark (11:56)

Yeah.

Tyrus (11:56)

I always Played to prove that I belong. You know, I didn't have all that, you know, And I was always.

Mark (12:02)

Yeah.

Tyrus (12:03)

Fighting that one guy that wasn't there. Right.

Mark (12:06)

Yeah.

Tyrus (12:07)

And then you have children, and then you don't have the tools, so you throw your hands up like. Well, it's not my fault.

Mark (12:16)

Yeah.

Tyrus (12:16)

I didn't have a dad. Like, the shit you will say.

Mark (12:18)

Oh, God, Endless.

Tyrus (12:20)

Yeah. Until you actually look in the mirror one day. My favorite thing about my son is he's not angry.

Mark (12:25)

Yeah, man.

Tyrus (12:27)

That he plays his sports with a smile on his face. You know what I'm saying? Like, when. Like. And I. That. And I'll. They'll see me tears watching him, and they're like, oh, he's so emotional. Like, no, no, no. I'm still getting rid of their regret.

Mark (12:42)

Yeah.

Tyrus (12:44)

You know, because it's. There's a. There's a pain. And then for you, there was that. And I'm. You know, we don't talk about the, you know, the hall of fame and all that stuff, but, like, I just looked at this, was like, here's a guy who, at one point, the machine is probably the most appropriate world because that's how you were looked at.

Mark (13:01)

Oh, yeah.

Tyrus (13:02)

You weren't allowed to be hurt. You weren't allowed to have feelings. And if you did, it was. And then. But that is a drug in itself. That Persona is a drug in itself.

Mark (13:11)

Oh, it is. It's. It is. You know, man, there's so much there because, you know, a lot of what. What I've gone through is. Is coming to terms with all of that. Like. Like, I played sports because it's the only place that I felt I had control.

Tyrus (13:28)

Right.

Mark (13:29)

Cause in the classroom, I didn't know until I was in my 20s that I had mild dyslexia. Right.

Tyrus (13:34)

I'm dyslexic, too.

Mark (13:35)

And so. So I felt stupid.

Tyrus (13:38)

That reverse. And I couldn't spell. Maybe to save my life.

Mark (13:41)

None of it.

Tyrus (13:42)

Yeah. And I would get aggressive.

Mark (13:43)

Oh, yeah.

Tyrus (13:43)

People make fun of me.

Mark (13:44)

I would shut down. I would shut down.

Tyrus (13:46)

Yeah. I punched a kid because in algebra, I couldn't. You know, the. There's so many letters. And I would get confused, and. And he was like, well, maybe we should make. And I just remember, boom. Yeah. You know, and then. Oh, he's aggressive. He's this, he's that. Because I would be so. Even at my own dinner table, I get, you know, what's 56 times 87. And I would. Yeah. You know.

Mark (14:05)

Yeah.

Tyrus (14:06)

And they put, you in special classes.

Mark (14:09)

So. So I was just talking about this the other day. So in second grade, I got labeled. So they had two. They would classify groups of readers. The Red Roosters are the fast readers and the Blue Cows are the slow readers. I was a Blue Cow and I wore that moniker forever. And so. So the only place that I felt control was when I competed. Because going, you think I'm an idiot? Watch what I'm going to do to you.

Tyrus (14:34)

Right, right, Exactly. Who's done now?

Mark (14:36)

Who's dumb? Yeah, exactly. Right. And so that, that, that was almost like, you know, I played sports and. And I say this, you know, I did a lot of things not to feel better than just to feel equal to. Just to feel like I had. Like my self esteem was so wrecked and I didn't know. I just wanted to be. I didn't want to be equal. I didn't want to be better. You know, it's this weird thing looking back on this whole, what I've gone through the last four or five years and going, wow, man, it's like these light bulb moments going, oh, that's why I was doing that.

Tyrus (15:10)

At least you're here for reflection. Yeah. And you're here for redemption.

Mark (15:14)

Yeah. Oh, and redemption's a huge part of it. You know, it's. It's part of the reason why, you know, somebody recognized me and stops me in the airport. I'll take 20 minutes to talk to him, you know, because I just feel like I want to give back, you know, I want, you know, like, because I know how that feels, you know, to be on the other side of that, you know, and you know, I'm not better than. It's like I want to share.

Tyrus (15:41)

Right.

Mark (15:41)

You know, I want to be open about it because I believe when I do that it allows that person to be open to somebody else. Right, Right.

Tyrus (15:50)

Yeah. Well, because you're closed. You're closed off all the time.

Mark (15:52)

Yeah. Oh, yeah.

Tyrus (15:53)

You know, and you know, it's. People ask me that I get. I have this weird fan base I never thought I would have. I call my silver haired foxes. There's all these ladies.

Mark (16:03)

I have to say this. Okay, here we go.

Tyrus (16:05)

I know.

Mark (16:05)

It's my in laws.

Tyrus (16:07)

Yes. Okay.

Mark (16:08)

From St. Louis.

Tyrus (16:10)

Yep.

Mark (16:10)

And they're Ellen and Ed Alberting. And they're huge fans.

Tyrus (16:14)

Thank you.

Mark (16:15)

They're in their 70s and it's one where it's like the best way to describe and don't get mad at pasty, pasty white folks from the suburbs with St. Louis, that are you can't.

Tyrus (16:27)

And you know what's funny is, is when I was a wrestler and was a ball player, people like that would fear me. And I enjoyed it. Now when I go to the airport, I will have a Tyrus, I love you. And I'll be like, oh, thank you so much. And you know, and then the husband be like, hey, we go to bed with you every night. Thank you. You put us. Yeah. At first it threw me off. Yeah. I think. You know what the hardest thing for me is when, when I heard. Because when women say it, it's. It's comfortable.

Mark (16:53)

Yeah.

Tyrus (16:54)

And then like, hey, Tyrus, man, I love you.

Mark (16:55)

Yeah.

Tyrus (16:56)

And the first few times I heard that.

Mark (16:57)

Yeah.

Tyrus (16:58)

I didn't know how to handle it. And it wasn't about sexuality. It was about just hearing that from a strange man and then you think, and it's a dumb thing. And then when you get in that quiet place, when you're in your hotel room, you start thinking about, why didn't my dad love me?

Mark (17:12)

Yeah.

Tyrus (17:12)

Why didn't my uncles ever. Where was. You know, and you start to, you eat at that and then you're like, no, you can't get that back.

Mark (17:19)

Yeah.

Tyrus (17:19)

Enjoy what is now.

Mark (17:21)

Yeah.

Tyrus (17:22)

You know, and, and that, that comes from wisdom.

Mark (17:25)

Yeah. Oh, for sure.

Tyrus (17:26)

But it, it, it is fueling, you know, it, it does. I see people all the time, especially people that are successful and they'll be like, oh, I got to deal with them. And I'm like, I'd be digging ditches right now.

Mark (17:39)

Yeah. Yeah.

Tyrus (17:41)

I would be a washed up former athlete with no prospects if it wasn't for those people willing to sit down for 40 minutes a night and allow me to do this.

Mark (17:52)

Yeah.

Tyrus (17:53)

So every time they say I love you, it's thank you. Yeah. Because when they stop, for sure, it's over.

Mark (17:59)

Yeah. I was talking about, like the, like the reframing of my language so I don't have problems right now. I have privileges. Right, Right. Like all the stuff that's going on with me in my life right now, it's a privilege. Like, I, like, sometimes it gets lost. Right. Just because life gets complex. Right. But understanding, like anything that's going on right now, no matter what it is, it's a privilege to have what I have now compared to what I had eight years ago. You know, I was at the end of, you know, drinking, drinking myself to death. And, you know, it's just that moment where, you know, so sometimes it's that reminder myself going, these are not problems, man. No, they're not.

Tyrus (18:44)

I, my addiction was more food. I, I would eat myself.

Mark (18:50)

Yeah.

Tyrus (18:51)

Crazy. Because when I was younger I would, long story short, but like my biological father had some serious problems, drug addictions. And he was, even though he was a rampant cheater and abuser, of course he would pass. He would consider my mother, who was 16, was it. So he would lock the doors so we would have days without food and stuff. So whenever there was food, I'd hoard.

Mark (19:13)

Yeah. Yeah.

Tyrus (19:14)

And that hoarding became almost like a pleasurable. Like we have food.

Mark (19:19)

Yeah.

Tyrus (19:19)

So as I got older and I was the world's greatest self sabotager, I would have everything going my way.

Mark (19:25)

Yeah.

Tyrus (19:26)

And then I would come into training camp 35 pounds overweight. And they were like, what, what are you doing?

Mark (19:31)

Yeah.

Tyrus (19:32)

And I remember a football coach said, you're going to eat yourself out of these opportunities. And that's kind of what I did.

Mark (19:37)

Yeah.

Tyrus (19:38)

Wrestling was a little more forgiving, but the same thing I remember vincing them going, how do you, how do you gain £50 in three months?

Mark (19:46)

Yeah.

Tyrus (19:47)

You know, and, and you just, and then I would drink to party.

Mark (19:50)

Yeah.

Tyrus (19:51)

And it wasn't just one drink.

Mark (19:52)

No.

Tyrus (19:53)

Like I had to get there for a fact. Yeah. Because I was fun.

Mark (19:56)

Yeah.

Tyrus (19:56)

But the problem is at first you're fun.

Mark (19:59)

Yeah.

Tyrus (20:00)

Then you get sad.

Mark (20:01)

Yeah.

Tyrus (20:03)

And then you become a monster.

Mark (20:05)

Yeah.

Tyrus (20:05)

If you don't pass out.

Mark (20:07)

Yeah.

Tyrus (20:07)

And that was the life.

Mark (20:09)

Yeah.

Tyrus (20:09)

And then you look and you look back at it and you're like, man, I shouldn't be here.

Mark (20:14)

Oh, there's, there's a couple moments where

Tyrus (20:18)

I know where was, where was rock bottom for you. What was the point where you said when your face is, where you just like, I've got to change.

Mark (20:27)

I mean, where everything really came together was my son's 14. And I've told this story before. My son's 14 and my mom passed away when I was 27. I'm the youngest of five kids, so I was a mama's boy. Right. And so she died September 3rd, 1996. And so 2018, my, my son September 3rd. And he said, dad, I, I, I know it's a sad day for you because your mom died. And I know you, you need to drink. Like, need to not want to, you need to.

Tyrus (21:04)

That itself had to cut.

Mark (21:05)

Ah, it. And so that's one of those things, like looking back on it going, oh, God. Like, because he had asked before. Right. And he said, would you, would you stop drinking tomorrow? And it's just like One of those things where I'm like. At the time, looking back, I thought it was just another empty promise. Right. Like. Yeah, yeah, I got you. Just, just.

Tyrus (21:28)

Yeah.

Mark (21:28)

Just. Yeah. I, I just. People pleased him. Get out of the way. Go. You know, let me get on with my stuff. Right. And for whatever reason, it was just. That was the moment where it was like I'd had enough.

Tyrus (21:44)

Also, I think when it, when, when your child has given up on you, I think that's because he's not. I know you need to like. Yeah. That hurts me hearing that.

Mark (21:57)

It's brutal.

Tyrus (21:59)

Because that's, that means that they've accepted this.

Mark (22:03)

Yeah.

Tyrus (22:03)

And you know, and that's one of those things where you have two choices. You know.

Mark (22:09)

Yeah.

Tyrus (22:09)

And I'm glad that you, you know, because that's, that's tough as, as a father who's got it wrong a lot.

Mark (22:17)

Yeah.

Tyrus (22:18)

There's a shitty husband who's. Who's trying to right a lot of wrongs.

Mark (22:22)

Yeah.

Tyrus (22:23)

When you hear from them. Because the one thing about them is they stayed with you because they believed in you.

Mark (22:28)

Yeah.

Tyrus (22:28)

And then there's that day that they don't anymore. And I think that's what it devastating. Because you're not the hero that, that you think you are.

Mark (22:38)

Yeah.

Tyrus (22:39)

You realize that you're actually the villain.

Mark (22:41)

Yeah.

Tyrus (22:42)

And that. And. But there's some people can't handle that.

Mark (22:47)

Yeah. So I mean there's. I, I literally talk about it. Like I remember that day. September, September 4th was like one of those. I. I was trying to manage the seconds in that day for whatever reason. It was like, I don't want to feel that. Right.

Tyrus (23:04)

Cuz numb is good.

Mark (23:05)

Yeah.

Tyrus (23:05)

Numb is safe.

Mark (23:06)

Numb is safe. Way safe. And that's again like me playing doctor. Me trying to give myself medicine for what's going on. Right. And not understanding at the time. There's a lot. There was a lot going on.

Tyrus (23:19)

Yeah. And. And again, you are also in one of the most dangerous physical sports at that time. The knee strikes were unbelievable. I mean, I remember watching the thing when you were getting kneed.

Mark (23:28)

Ah.

Tyrus (23:29)

You know, and, and the ref's telling the guy no. And he keeps doing, you know, keep doing it because that was his only shot.

Mark (23:34)

Yeah.

Tyrus (23:34)

You know, and it's not like he can undo.

Mark (23:36)

No. You can't take him back.

Tyrus (23:39)

I was wrestling with my daughter in the beach. See this black eye? That's from teaching her knee strikes in the ocean.

Mark (23:46)

Yeah.

Tyrus (23:46)

Like we're messing around. And. And I was. Because I know I always Press my kids, you know, but my daughter, she. She jumps horses and so she has great. But she's always been my little monster. And she's 11 and I, I poised her up. Now when I go to throw you. Yeah. Hold on to the arm. Sweeping an arm bar like I'm teaching.

Mark (24:01)

Yeah, yeah.

Tyrus (24:02)

And I said. And she goes, damn, what I said. Then you spin them around and give them, you know. And I'm. Usually I time it. I do. And she caught me in the lights and I mean I was like, oh. And she's like, oh, good, good, good. You know. And then we're at dinner and my wife was like, what the hell's wrong with your eye? I'm light skinned. You know what I'm saying? So it's gonna show up. Oh yeah, it's gonna show up. And my daughter also looked at her and she was like, yeah.

Mark (24:24)

Oh my God, keep popping black eye.

Tyrus (24:26)

Yeah. And was proud of. It was like, hey, she should be, man. She was. But I look at that and in those moments that I get now, there was. I don't have those moments when she was little, you know, I'm saying like, it's like. And that's though you have those moments now, the best thing to do is, is you should never forget, but you should focus on building. Keep continuing to build because it is. No one's going to be tougher on you than yourself if you're being honest with yourself. And I think that's something that you have amplified.

Mark (24:59)

Yeah.

Tyrus (25:00)

You own your. And more than so than I've ever seen anyone in a sport. That's so easy to say, well, I got all these blows to the head. It's not me.

Mark (25:07)

Super easy.

Tyrus (25:08)

The pressure, you know, you've never, never done that. And I have so much. Because that's, it's not common.

Mark (25:14)

No.

Tyrus (25:15)

And your peers even will kind of be like, yeah.

Mark (25:18)

Dismissive. You know, because then they gotta own it. Yeah.

Tyrus (25:21)

And they don't want to.

Mark (25:21)

No, no. And it's just, it's, it's. It's really incredible. This like, I feel like it's such, such a blessing to have the second chance. Right. Yeah. And understanding with my son. The one thing is I'm a stickler with him about language. So he is the same with me. Right, Right. Like, because language is intention. Right. Whatever you say, it comes out of your mouth. It has intention. And so where I had to catch myself first couple of years is saying something and not following through with it. Yeah. It was devastating.

Tyrus (25:57)

Don't make a promise.

Mark (25:58)

Unless you can keep it devastating. And it's one where I'm like, pause. Hey, this is what we're gonna do. And have a clear. Cause it's just one where it took two years to build back any level of trust with them. Any level. And it was like, you know, and it had to be on his terms. I couldn't, I couldn't go like, you're not.

Tyrus (26:20)

And that's hard as a man.

Mark (26:21)

Yeah. Yeah.

Tyrus (26:23)

Because you used to use those empty promises. Hey, guess I know I can't come this weekend, but guess what? Next month you and I are going on a fishing trip.

Mark (26:30)

Yep.

Tyrus (26:31)

And then next month would come and be like, oh, well, you know, I. I mean, well, I got to do this. And you keep. So they don't look forward anymore. Then it's like, okay, dad. Yeah, sure.

Mark (26:42)

And that disdain where they have in their voice, that little sarcasm of like, whatever, you know, it's like, oh my gosh, man. Like looking back on it, going, thankfully my son's intelligent enough to look at it and go, okay, you know, and move forward. For him to move forward is. Is the miracle, you know, because there's one where he could get stuck in the thing. Like, my dad was an alcoholic. It wasn't there. It wasn't this. And he's, he's like, uhuh. I mean, it's one thing I'm extremely

Tyrus (27:13)

proud of as a young adult, seeing a dad who didn't give up.

Mark (27:17)

Yeah.

Tyrus (27:18)

You didn't lay down because if you did, it would repeat. Because he was looking for the same medicine.

Mark (27:23)

Yeah.

Tyrus (27:24)

That you were.

Mark (27:24)

Yeah. Him. And I talk about like, like my parents did the best they could, but they infected me with the dysfunction they got infected with. Right. And that infection I passed to my son, dysfunctional family infection. And I go, like now I tell my son, I go, now we have the ability to stop it together. Yeah. To do something that's going to generationally change things. To give yourself the ability to have a core when you build a family. That's solid, right?

Tyrus (27:59)

Yep.

Mark (28:00)

That's based in this, you know, open connection, this reality. Not these, you know, hyperbole of like,

Tyrus (28:08)

just that you tell yourself, because here's the thing, you're gonna, you're gonna be the grandfather that his child is not gonna have to worry about.

Mark (28:18)

Yeah.

Tyrus (28:18)

Like you can't fix. You know, I know we're supposed to talk about fighting and stuff. I know, but I don't. I'm sorry, but no, there's a million other things to do because, you know, What? Maybe somewhere out there there's a young dude who's gonna be hearing this shit that might go like. I feel that way too. Because you're, you're in the hall of Fame. Should have been a lot sooner. You fought everybody. Weight class didn't mean.

Mark (28:43)

Yeah.

Tyrus (28:43)

I mean, you went out there and I just, I remember that documentary. And then you just disappeared.

Mark (28:52)

Yeah.

Tyrus (28:52)

I, I, at one point that you might have dad dead or something because you just.

Mark (28:58)

Yeah.

Tyrus (28:59)

Disappeared. Yeah. You know, and then, then the movie comes out.

Mark (29:03)

Yeah.

Tyrus (29:04)

How did you feel about the movie?

Mark (29:06)

I think he did a great job. I, I do. It's just, I can't, like for me. And I, I told Dwayne this. I'm like, dj, you bro, you don't have to do this, man. You don't. And his reply every time was, yeah, I do.

Tyrus (29:20)

Well, I think he probably had the same demons.

Mark (29:23)

Oh, for sure.

Tyrus (29:24)

You know, I'm not saying he was whatever his deal is, because they could be whatever. Right. Our families are connected. My, My son's grandfather is Haku. Oh, me.

Mark (29:33)

Wow.

Tyrus (29:34)

Yeah. And who's Pa. Who is the greatest grandfather ever. But he's, he wasn't the best. He'll be the first one to tell you. He was on the road. He made a lot.

Mark (29:44)

Yeah.

Tyrus (29:45)

You know.

Mark (29:45)

Yeah.

Tyrus (29:45)

And now he's, he cries every time his grandson gets a hit. My children.

Mark (29:51)

Yeah.

Tyrus (29:52)

From my marriage and stuff. Aren't his. Or he checks on them all the time. Like he is, he is who he wants. Always wanted to be.

Mark (30:00)

Yeah.

Tyrus (30:00)

And I look at him like, I'm not going to. It's not going to take me that long. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? And all his children do well. Like his uncles are in WWE and, and, But I look at that too, because when people want to talk about he was savage and he was. All the fight stories and I'm like, I don't know that guy.

Mark (30:16)

Yeah.

Tyrus (30:16)

Now, he was one of my favorite wrestlers growing up. But like, I know Pa. Yeah. And he's PA now. And that gives me hope.

Mark (30:23)

Yeah.

Tyrus (30:24)

Because my goal is I want to be a PA one day. I don't want to be. Oh, well, you know, he was really good in the beginning. He said a lot of funny on tv, but his kids don't know him.

Mark (30:31)

Yeah. Oh, gosh.

Tyrus (30:33)

And his, his wife, now. Ex wife.

Mark (30:35)

Yeah.

Tyrus (30:35)

Doesn't acknowledge him. You know, and then you, you see me at a table selling photos for 10 bucks, trying to hold on to glory. That's gone. You know, And I think you have of shown that there is. There is life. And again when you look at the sports world now. Because now amateur wrestling's.

Mark (30:53)

Oh, it's popping unbelievable. Raf, he told me Fox is number one rated.

Tyrus (30:59)

Yeah. It's phenomenal. Like channel. Channel. And I is on it all the time. I'm like. And it's A lot of amateur wrestlers had. There was nowhere for you to go. You either had to go to wrestling, which is basically. You have to learn to kick your own ass.

Mark (31:13)

Yeah.

Tyrus (31:13)

And as an athlete who goes forward, especially in wrestling more than anything else. Football second. Taking a step back and allowing that is. It's a hard crop. Kurt Angle did it.

Mark (31:24)

Yeah.

Tyrus (31:25)

But he's one of the very few that were able other guys try but it's just, you know, Shamrock. But Shamrock was always Shamrock.

Mark (31:31)

Oh, Kurt was. So I competed against Kurt.

Tyrus (31:34)

Yeah.

Mark (31:34)

So I don't know if you know this or not.

Tyrus (31:35)

No, no.

Mark (31:36)

Kurt and I wrestled. So he went to Clarion. Right. Pennsylvania. Small school in Pennsylvania. I went to Syracuse University and I wrestled 190 pounds. He wrestled heavyweight his whole career. And so when his career finished in college, we started competing to try to get ready for the 96 Olympics. It's like a four year Olympic cycle. So in 93 we were at the world team trials and I beat him and made my first world team. In 94 we wrestled again in the freestyle national finals and I beat him there and then I beat him in the world team trials. And the first time he beat me was in 95 him. And I went at it like. Like incredible.

Tyrus (32:18)

You were three zero. You were feeling like I got him.

Mark (32:20)

Yeah. And so it was like one of those things where he. So he developed a work ethic that was just like. He had a gas tank that was just never ending him was some of

Tyrus (32:35)

the fun is moments I had in the ring that my biggest problem was because he liked to do his angle slam. Get me up for that. Was not smiling while I was in the air because I just loved working him. Yeah. I had a. I had such a. And him and I. We have. I consider him a friend and it was our probably closest moment was I refused to wrestle him one night. Now when Kurt was in TNA towards the end his neck was.

Mark (33:02)

Was horrible.

Tyrus (33:03)

But he's a warrior.

Mark (33:04)

Yeah.

Tyrus (33:05)

And he was Rexell and Drew McIntyre another guy I love to death. But to say Drew is. Is stiff everything Drew throws in. And he had this move called a clay maker where it's basically a boot to the face.

Mark (33:14)

Yeah.

Tyrus (33:15)

Kurt's neck can't go anywhere. You know, like, he turn. You know, he got him to snap his head back when I. And in wrestling tapings, you do four months of TV in four days, so. So it's just. The physical grind is just unreal. And the worst thing is wrestling your friends because you beat the hell out of each other, because it's like, hey, I'll buy your beer, you know? And I'm supposed. And it was a big moment for me. I was supposed to go up on him, and we were supposed to be in the main event, and I saw him in the back, and I saw how he couldn't move. He was throwing up, and he's like, hey, bro, I'm not wrestling you. And he was pissed at me, and I went to them, I said, no, he's hurt. He's hurt, and I'm not doing it. Yeah, it probably cost me my title chances, but. And he was pissed at me, you know? And then I ended up. They had to wrestle the local English guy, and I. I even put him over as punishment, but I was like, I don't give a man.

Mark (34:07)

Yeah.

Tyrus (34:08)

And I was. He was upset at me, and I just didn't care, you know?

Mark (34:11)

Yeah.

Tyrus (34:11)

And then finally, the head guy came over, and I told him why. And he says, good call. And we're going on. We get on the bus, and he's not talking to me, and I go get on the bus, and he grabs me, and I look at him, and he says, thank you, because I wouldn't have done it. Yeah. You know, and that's some. All the fun in the ring. But it was just because. And I. But I understand that. Because if that was me, would. Someone else would have had to do it, too.

Mark (34:33)

Yeah.

Tyrus (34:34)

And that's when I knew that maybe there was. I actually had some good qualities left in me.

Mark (34:39)

Yeah.

Tyrus (34:40)

Because before that, I think a year or two before, you would have said, I would have served him up on a platter, because I need the win.

Mark (34:45)

Yeah.

Tyrus (34:45)

I need this for my career, you know, and there just comes a moment. And it also could have been the pressure of, like, I have young children, and he has a family, and I. I met his. His family and his daughters, and I'm like, I'm. I don't want it to be on my watch, being in the ring with him.

Mark (35:00)

Oh.

Tyrus (35:00)

You know, because you got to live with that. And there's. I'm sure there's guys that you were fighting that you're like, when is the ref gonna stop this? You know, and. Because you're never. Every time, especially in your sport, every time you go in, a little bit of you is left in there.

Mark (35:16)

It is, it is.

Tyrus (35:18)

You know, it's.

Mark (35:19)

You know, here's the part which is crazy. And I've talked to a ton of fighters. Knowing what they know now, would they still sign up for it? The whole answer every time is yes. Right. Because everybody got something a little different out of it or needed something out of it.

Tyrus (35:34)

The sport wasn't the problem. It was what was going on with you inside of the ring that's the problem.

Mark (35:40)

Yeah.

Tyrus (35:40)

So you would do it again, but hopefully you would do it again with a better understanding of.

Mark (35:45)

Of yourself, for sure. And that was the whole thing. It's like, you know, because it got to a point where it was just like unsustainable. Right. I couldn't live up to the image. I couldn't live up to this. I couldn't live up to.

Tyrus (35:57)

You were Jordan.

Mark (35:58)

Yeah.

Tyrus (35:59)

In the, in the fight world, you were invincible. I remember the first time I think I saw a fight where you got into trouble.

Mark (36:04)

Yeah.

Tyrus (36:04)

I couldn't believe it.

Mark (36:05)

Yeah.

Tyrus (36:05)

Because you had it all, like. And again, you didn't have. You had the toughest title. G.I. joe had the same. You know what I'm saying? G.I. joe. Yeah. And it was like 90 of them.

Mark (36:18)

Yeah. Right.

Tyrus (36:18)

You know what I'm saying? And they were fighting guys with masks who couldn't shoot straight. Right. So when they give you a nickname like that.

Mark (36:27)

Yeah. Rumor, generic.

Tyrus (36:28)

There's not like, oh, he finished fifth. No, no, no. You can't be.

Mark (36:32)

There's not participation R, man.

Tyrus (36:34)

That's not and never will be in that sport. And you were fighting in pride, which had to be the craziest thing of all time.

Mark (36:42)

So I went over this last night. Like, people don't understand. Like, so in the film and in the documentary at the. So the two after I went into treatment and then I fought this guy incident in a way to. To start. For the grand prix tournament, the 2000 Grand Prix tournament. The rounds were 15 minutes round.

Tyrus (37:02)

Yeah.

Mark (37:03)

Like no breaks.

Tyrus (37:05)

15 minute rounds and everyone's gassed up, juiced up.

Mark (37:09)

Oh, my God.

Tyrus (37:10)

I mean, it was a different world.

Mark (37:11)

Yeah.

Tyrus (37:11)

Then, okay.

Mark (37:12)

Completely, completely different.

Tyrus (37:15)

There was no jabs.

Mark (37:16)

No.

Tyrus (37:17)

You're trying to break your arm or knock your ass out. Someone had to go, yeah, yeah, yeah. It was the Wild West.

Mark (37:24)

It. Exactly. Because it just the context of it when. With like looking at it now going, oh, if that was now, nobody would sign up for it. No, you'd go like, are you out of your mind? Unless I'm getting $10 million or 30 million in residuals for the next, there's no way.

Tyrus (37:39)

And the ring was the worst idea ever. Guys were getting caught up in the ring constantly. You know, it was just. The cage made sense.

Mark (37:46)

It did, it did. It needed to be.

Tyrus (37:48)

Or at least an open mat with a line to where, like, in wrestling you're out of bounds or something.

Mark (37:52)

Yeah. So. So in Japan, anything that was in a cage they classified as, like, animal. So they didn't want to. Because we weren't animals, we were warriors. So it had to be in a ring.

Tyrus (38:03)

Cuz I would wrestle in Japan and they would have MMA and wrestling on the same card. And I would always say, this is stupid.

Mark (38:10)

Yeah.

Tyrus (38:10)

Because then two guys would beat themselves to hell and then I'd go out there and the guy would go to throw. I said, you st. Don't you punch me. Yeah, are you dumb if I don't have a mark on my face? You just. And then it'd be like, or you want to shoot, let's shoot. But either way, you know, one guy worked over there was like. He's like, I was all right, and we're supposed to go 12, and we only went three. But that was. He decided that he wanted to throw. So, you know, and then they're like, hey, you want an MMA fight, let's get you in a fight. And I was like, I want to keep my teeth, brother. I'm pretty. Yeah, I got bass going. Hey, let's do car dealership commercials together and everything. And hippopotamus shit. There's so much stuff over there. Yeah, but, yeah, that, that level. And you did not. And I, I can. I can honestly tell you, even the documentary kind of turned on you a little bit. And I thought it was very unfair, you know, I thought it got very dark.

Mark (39:01)

Yeah, yeah, it. A lot of that was, man.

Tyrus (39:04)

And it was a dark time. But, yeah, it didn't leave us with any hope at the end of it.

Mark (39:09)

No.

Tyrus (39:09)

You know, and. And I. I felt like. And I understand that they were trying to tell me, but sometimes I also thought that they just. You have to watch that back and you have to answer. They don't have to answer for it.

Mark (39:20)

Yeah.

Tyrus (39:20)

You know, and how difficult was that? Because it was supposed to be something that was gonna put you guys on the map.

Mark (39:26)

Yeah. Oh, man. So this is, you know, to put it in context. I mean, people get this, but there's no YouTube, there's no Instagram there's no Facebook. There's no. So it being on HBO was the biggest platform.

Tyrus (39:42)

HBO was where.

Mark (39:43)

It was God back then. HBO was God, Right?

Tyrus (39:46)

Yeah.

Mark (39:46)

Like, if you're a comic and you made it an Robin Williams, George Carlin,

Tyrus (39:49)

like, if Shangri La, you made it, you were on top of the mountain.

Mark (39:53)

Yep. So for it to be on HBO was a huge triumph.

Tyrus (39:58)

The ratings were off the chain. Yeah, I think I watched it. I think every time it was air, I would watch it. It would be on the. Just flip. Oh, watch it.

Mark (40:05)

Bang. Yeah, it. It had. It just was so well done, you know, for filmmakers who had never made a documentary, like, in this context before, it was. I was talking with the producer, John Greenhalgh yesterday, and it's just like one where it's like, dude, I still can't believe how good this is.

Tyrus (40:23)

They need to do a sequel.

Mark (40:24)

I know. We were talking about it yesterday. They have over 350 hours of additional footage around that time. And so I said it to him yesterday.

Tyrus (40:33)

I go, john, just you explaining it. Yeah. From a position of wisdom.

Mark (40:38)

Yeah.

Tyrus (40:39)

I think would help a lot of it does.

Mark (40:41)

It does. And that's, you know, part of that. And I'm willing to take on the responsibility of, like, passing the torch and going, this. This is where I up. These are the things that I did wrong. Here's what you can do better. Right. Here's a way you can carry yourself. Here's how you can look at your, like, what you're doing in your environment. Right. The people in your environment. Like, I didn't realize, like, you know, I'm not quite an empath, but I'm very emotional connected. And it's so important for me to have an environment of people that support that, that I'm connected to, that can tell me the truth. You know, I'd. So. And you. You agree.

Tyrus (41:22)

Bad news, good news. Just don't lie to me.

Mark (41:24)

Yeah.

Tyrus (41:25)

Don't piss down my back and tell me it's rain.

Mark (41:27)

Yeah. There's so many of that. And it's one where it's like, I'm so far down the road going, well, you told me this was. I was doing good. And it's like when you're putting bread

Tyrus (41:36)

on everyone's table and they're not putting effort in. Yeah, you're great. It's only till it's over, then that's when. And they don't even. They just are gone. There's no goodbye.

Mark (41:45)

And that was part me disappearing.

Tyrus (41:47)

Yeah.

Mark (41:47)

Money gone, opportunity gone. Everybody vaporized.

Tyrus (41:51)

No friends.

Mark (41:52)

Everybody vaporized.

Tyrus (41:54)

Quick.

Mark (41:55)

And then, interestingly enough, when all this movie stuff came, everybody reappeared.

Tyrus (41:59)

Yeah. I was wondering about you, brother, I must say. Been texting you for 10 years and you're like, yeah, yeah. But the key is not to be mad at them.

Mark (42:09)

I'm so.

Tyrus (42:10)

That's hard because you want to say a lot. You.

Mark (42:14)

I. I do. And part. Part of where I've drawn the line is acknowledgement. Hey, thank you. Great for reaching out. Right. But no continuation. It's just one where there's no place. Right. It's like, thank you. You can call me, text me if I want.

Tyrus (42:26)

I'm grown and I have now the right people in my life right now, and I just don't have any room because my success, because I was a. Should have been like, this dude has so much talent, but he's. He's a head case. You know, he's uncoachable. He doesn't hang out with his teammates. You know, he's always kind of. He's always got something smart to say. He's. And when I kind of all. Everything kind of got together in the wwe, Rocket, all of a sudden I had. I had no family my entire life. And my mother. I'm debuting on Monday Night Raw.

Mark (42:59)

Yeah.

Tyrus (42:59)

And then I'm getting calls like, hey, we got your. Your father and your sisters are coming to see you. And I was like, I don't know who these people are.

Mark (43:07)

Right. Oh, my gosh.

Tyrus (43:08)

Tell them to buy a ticket.

Mark (43:09)

Yeah.

Tyrus (43:10)

I don't know them.

Mark (43:10)

Yeah.

Tyrus (43:11)

You know, and. But then I found myself in the ring that night looking to see if.

Mark (43:16)

If they were there and they didn't

Tyrus (43:17)

come because they had to buy a ticket.

Mark (43:19)

Yeah.

Tyrus (43:19)

You know, and then you. And then it eats at you again because then all of a sudden you're that 7 year old again going, yeah, yeah. Did he not buy a ticket, come see me? And you carry that when you get to a place, when they do call you or they do reach out and you're in a place where you're strong and you understand things happen and you're not holding on to anymore. You like, I appreciate the reach out.

Mark (43:41)

Yeah. But that's it.

Tyrus (43:43)

Yeah, I'm good. My family's good.

Mark (43:44)

Yeah.

Tyrus (43:45)

And my thing was, if you can tell me the name of any of my children.

Mark (43:50)

Yeah.

Tyrus (43:50)

We'll have this conversation. And I remember my brother just on the other end of the phone going, george. Yeah. You know, And I was like, boy, you know, And I was like, thank you.

Mark (44:01)

Yeah.

Tyrus (44:02)

Yeah. And as his name is Seosie, which

Mark (44:03)

is coming for George.

Tyrus (44:04)

But close. But you know. And that's when they. You've put it back on them.

Mark (44:10)

Yeah.

Tyrus (44:10)

Like not getting sucked in because you still need that attention that. Yeah. When did for you. Because you go through that moment of. You understand you had issues. You go, you went to rehab. You cleaned your. You cleaned your body. So then there was a drop off.

Mark (44:26)

Yeah.

Tyrus (44:27)

Losing that strength. How hard was, you know when you go in the weight room? Because my thing, my weight room was like, man, I go in there and look for guys lifting heavy.

Mark (44:36)

Yeah.

Tyrus (44:36)

Just to go with them, you know.

Mark (44:38)

So I didn't know how to go in the gym and not compete.

Tyrus (44:42)

Yeah.

Mark (44:43)

I didn't know how to. To go in and not try to be alpha. I just didn't. I. Because everything, every time I went to the gym it was like.

Tyrus (44:51)

And you're surrounded by alphas. Silverbacks.

Mark (44:54)

Everywhere. Everywhere. And in my day it was like, I know I'm the baddest bitch on the block. Right. I know that. So going in. So it's taken forever. And so we're.

Tyrus (45:07)

We're have.

Mark (45:08)

Where I've allowed myself to have. I'm on a mountain bike every.

Tyrus (45:14)

I ride the bike. I was. I do. I did what I do Today, I did 10 miles. I ride that damn bike. And I listen to my music. Or I'll watch old wrestling. I watch.

Mark (45:23)

So what's crazy about it is that I didn't understand. It's a form of therapy. Like I would find myself before I started riding a mountain bike. I'd put my earbuds in and I would go for a walk around the mall. I'd walk around the muffler when I get stressed.

Tyrus (45:36)

Yeah.

Mark (45:36)

Right. Because it just helps me organize my emotions right. Where I'm not acting and reacting to everything. And like before, when I get emotional, I'm have a drink.

Tyrus (45:45)

I couldn't even do cardio. I could not sit still with my own self for more than five minutes.

Mark (45:51)

Wow.

Tyrus (45:52)

Now I'm just riding that bike all day. Just listen to my. Sometimes I sing out loud. My music has changed. I ain't ACD today. I'm listening to flowers.

Mark (46:02)

Yeah.

Tyrus (46:02)

While I'm riding the bike. You know, like just kind of like in my own world. And like no one. Everyone else is on all the high tech. Not me, sir. I'm on my little bike.

Mark (46:09)

Yeah.

Tyrus (46:09)

Got my 10 miles in. Then I go work out. And then I go hit the heavy bag. And then I was posting stuff for buddies to keep, you know. Hey, we're doing this stuff. Are you trying to fight? I'm just hitting the bag.

Mark (46:21)

Yeah.

Tyrus (46:22)

Like, I just need you guys to see that we're. And then I realized that, like, need to stop post. Well, actually, my wife was like, stop posting the workouts. It's cringe, you know, like, quit doing it to try to show your buddies, like, do it for you.

Mark (46:36)

Yeah.

Tyrus (46:36)

You know, and then I was just, you know, but, like, you were so right on that bike. I can. If I know I get through it.

Mark (46:43)

Yeah.

Tyrus (46:43)

I'm in a good place. It's more important than any lift. Hardest thing for me is going from a guy benched 550 and would and squat and deadlift was in the one ton club. And, you know, you carry that and I wear your shirts and. And, you know, it's trapzilla. Yeah.

Mark (47:00)

Yeah.

Tyrus (47:01)

You know, now go in there with a pair of sweats on. You know, I don't care. My shoes don't match. You know, and it's like. And you're doing your thing, and you're just like. And you're no longer looking around.

Mark (47:10)

Yeah.

Tyrus (47:11)

Another big guy comes in. I'm not like, what you. What you lifting there?

Mark (47:13)

Yeah.

Tyrus (47:14)

I'm sitting with my £20, doing my sets, and I'm like, hey, I'm older. I'm streamlined. I want to play with my kids.

Mark (47:19)

Yep.

Tyrus (47:20)

You know, and I don't have to spend five days recovering because I had to deadlift £600 to prove, man, that I'm a man still. And who are you proving it? That's the cold part. It's that guy in the mirror. Oh, it's okay. It's. Oh, it's just water.

Mark (47:32)

No,

Tyrus (47:34)

it. It's crazy, man, that I always. The eyes thing. I go back to that. I just remember that connection of somebody who was. I just felt. We shared a lot of the. I. I just had that same look.

Mark (47:46)

Yeah.

Tyrus (47:47)

I never saw a picture of me in any football thing. Smiling. Wrestling. Same thing. I always looked for the worst part of it.

Mark (47:55)

You know what's crazy? I said this yesterday. It's like the two loneliest places on the planet I have ever been is after a win or after a loss.

Tyrus (48:05)

Yeah.

Mark (48:06)

Right. Because it doesn't. It doesn't. I'm not fulfilled. Right. I don't. I don't. I don't. Because the object I'm chasing is not there.

Tyrus (48:16)

Right.

Mark (48:16)

You're looking for something else.

Tyrus (48:18)

You're looking for someone else.

Mark (48:19)

I win the championship. Right. And. And, like, I've sat in the Shower and just. Absolutely. Just bald after some of my biggest wins.

Tyrus (48:28)

Because you didn't feel deserving because of the outside of the ring.

Mark (48:32)

Everything. Yeah.

Tyrus (48:33)

Reality's waiting for you. When you walk that aisle, the people are cheering and you were the. You were in the greatest place in the world. And then when the match is over, you're left with yourself.

Mark (48:42)

Yeah.

Tyrus (48:42)

And you're not even friends with yourself. You don't like at all. You don't ever want to be alone.

Mark (48:47)

No. So part of what, you know, like, part of the, like unraveling for me is figuring things out. Going like. It's so simple to say it, like, wrestling is what I did or fighting is what I did. It's not who I am. Right. But it took me 10 years to sort through that.

Tyrus (49:03)

Because your entire identity to yourself, everything is that guy in the ring. That's the guy that everyone loves.

Mark (49:08)

Yeah.

Tyrus (49:08)

That's the guy who gets the dinners and the women.

Mark (49:11)

All of it.

Tyrus (49:12)

And the friends and the agents and the tv.

Mark (49:14)

Yeah.

Tyrus (49:14)

The other guy, when he's by himself.

Mark (49:16)

Oh. He's fragile creature.

Tyrus (49:18)

Yeah.

Mark (49:18)

Right.

Tyrus (49:19)

Yeah. And we're. That's when all the. With cheating and all this other. Because you're putting band aids trying to feel.

Mark (49:25)

Yep.

Tyrus (49:26)

Better. Yeah. Instead of.

Mark (49:27)

I got band. Bandies over. Bandies over. Knife wounds. Right.

Tyrus (49:30)

Yeah.

Mark (49:30)

Like.

Tyrus (49:31)

Yeah.

Mark (49:31)

Like, oh, I'm going to stop the bleeding. And it's one where it's like, hang on.

Tyrus (49:35)

Yeah. I feel good for eight seconds.

Mark (49:36)

Yeah.

Tyrus (49:37)

And then, and then, and then as soon as it's over. Why the. Did I do that?

Mark (49:42)

Yeah.

Tyrus (49:42)

Why am I doing. You know, and it's. You get to that point one day where. And it's not. Although I, I, everyone, if you are hurting, you should talk to someone.

Mark (49:50)

Yeah.

Tyrus (49:51)

Therapy, whatever your deal is. But I'm also a big believer in. Especially for men. The best thing for therapy is being able to look yourself mirror and own your.

Mark (50:01)

That's a huge. That's step one for me.

Tyrus (50:03)

Yeah.

Mark (50:03)

Right. And again, like, like everything that I talk about is personal to me. Right.

Tyrus (50:08)

Because that's you. You don't have to remember it and you're not bullshitting somebody. I don't have to look down and be like, it says here, no, no, I'm taking what you want. This is me. And if I'm okay. If you don't want it.

Mark (50:19)

Yeah.

Tyrus (50:19)

I used to not be okay. Oh, but I'll give, I'll see like a young kid or going through some stuff and I'll be like, you know, I Used to make those and they're like, I ain't you. I'm a winner.

Mark (50:29)

Yeah. Okay.

Tyrus (50:29)

Yes you are.

Mark (50:30)

Yeah. Yeah.

Tyrus (50:31)

Good luck, son.

Mark (50:32)

Yeah.

Tyrus (50:33)

And it's in about two years. I'm going to run by you one day and I'm going to look at you and say, but maybe you needed to go through it like I needed to.

Mark (50:41)

Part of it, part of it is like, like I did an interview last fall in the, in this gal in Phoenix. She had said right at the end of it, she immediately goes, would you change anything? And like immediately I'm like, no.

Tyrus (50:55)

Nope. Same thing.

Mark (50:56)

I needed every, every down because when I fail, I feel spectacular failure is necessary. It's a, it's a building.

Tyrus (51:04)

Stars matter.

Mark (51:05)

They do, they do. It's a building block for me. And it's like, okay, that's just one way not to do it. Right. But some of those lessons have been, I mean, self inflicted all of a 99% of mine. It's same with me, same with me. Know, it's one where it's just like, you know, you know, I, the example I say is I can run into the wall 10 times in a row when somebody told me an hour ago, there's a door on the right and then I run to the wall, go, no, no, no, I'm going to go through the wall. Go through the wall and then get, then go. Maybe I'll try to.

Tyrus (51:38)

Yeah. I was asked that, I think it was Stage Steele. She asked, she read my book and she was like, with all you've been through, would you change anything? I said, no, I wouldn't be me.

Mark (51:49)

Yeah.

Tyrus (51:49)

And I like me.

Mark (51:50)

Yeah.

Tyrus (51:50)

And that was something that was, you know, and then she said, what would you say? I think that was what she, you know, because they try to get you the, they get you the gadget. She's like, if you're, what would you say to your parents today? You know, if they were in this room? And I was like, I just, how'd I do? Yeah. You know, and you know, and as

Mark (52:07)

soon as I said it, yeah, go

Tyrus (52:10)

to hell stage, you're not getting it. I don't know what you're trying to do, but you're not getting it. You know, and, and that's because my, my kids that, you know, because you're still that. But then you're, you know, you get through. But you're like, but at least I can say it.

Mark (52:27)

Yeah.

Tyrus (52:28)

Because me, 10 years ago, I'd have been like, well, him.

Mark (52:32)

Yeah.

Tyrus (52:32)

You know, if I ever see him what? You know, and it's just that anger. But that means they still hold you.

Mark (52:37)

Yeah, they do. They do, they do. And that whole thing of. Of, you know, the insecurities that I had about not feeling because my skin color, because where I was raised, all this other stuff, dyslexia, not smart enough, all this stuff. And you know, it's one where it's like, you know what? It's one of those. Like, I'll say to my wife, I go, you know what? I really don't give a. What they think.

Tyrus (52:57)

No. I say all the time.

Mark (52:58)

Because I can't. Because at one point I tried to please everybody and I was so disingenuous to myself and my real. I hated myself for it. I literally hated myself for it because I wasn't genuine to me.

Tyrus (53:14)

Yep. I mean, that's where the self sabotage comes in.

Mark (53:17)

All of it. All of it.

Tyrus (53:19)

Because you just. You can't be alone with yourself. But the people, the outside is. It's. It's more. It's a very powerful drug. Oh, they will fill your head so full of. And then when the people around you ground you.

Mark (53:32)

Yeah.

Tyrus (53:33)

And say, no, no, no, no, that's not how it is. That's not how it is. And you'll be like, you're jealous. You're a hater. They get me.

Mark (53:41)

Yeah.

Tyrus (53:41)

No, no, they don't know you exactly. Knew you. Their bags would be packed. You're a horrible person. They see what you let them see.

Mark (53:51)

Yeah.

Tyrus (53:51)

I see you all day, you know, and that's. That's tough.

Mark (53:55)

Yeah. So I have a. I have a couple of truth tellers in my life where I can call up, check in with them and. And I know they're going to tell me the absolute truth regardless of how it cuts, regardless of how it lands with me. You know, dude, you're so far off base, bro, or whatever it is. Right. And there are people that I rely on now because going through all the movie shit, you know, I was. I was talking with the director, Benny Safdie the other day, and I said, you know, I think the thing that pissed me off at the end of it was everybody telling me what I should have got out of it. Yeah, you should have got. And I joke with him and I go, I think everybody was under the impression, like, I would open my front door and there'd be a pot of gold and I'd just like trip over it walking out my front door, go, oh, hang on, let me pick these pieces. It's like, you can't define what I got out of it. Right. And people saying, oh, it did this. And I go, no, I'm exactly where I'm supposed to be.

Tyrus (54:48)

Yeah.

Mark (54:49)

First time in my life that I've actually known exactly where I'm supposed to be, which is right here where my feet are.

Tyrus (54:56)

Right. Because. Well, it's easy. Everyone's tells you walk in these shoes.

Mark (55:02)

Yeah.

Tyrus (55:03)

Not just the glory.

Mark (55:04)

Yeah.

Tyrus (55:05)

Go behind closed doors.

Mark (55:06)

Yeah.

Tyrus (55:07)

And. And just because you know what? You got demons too.

Mark (55:11)

Yeah.

Tyrus (55:11)

And if you want, I'll. I'll tell you what you should be doing. Nobody wants that. When you turn around on them.

Mark (55:17)

No, you turn around. I mean, I'll know that they get

Tyrus (55:19)

hot, you know, like how. I'm not a professional athlete. Okay.

Mark (55:23)

Okay. All right. Yeah, exactly.

Tyrus (55:25)

I'm not. I'm not in front of the camera.

Mark (55:26)

Yeah.

Tyrus (55:26)

Okay. But you're still an asshole.

Mark (55:27)

Yeah.

Tyrus (55:28)

And you got your own stuff, so maybe focus on you. I'm gonna fix me. Yeah, you fix you. And then we'll get together to see where we're at until then. Exactly. Please. Yeah. Keep it in the comments, by the way. I don't read them.

Mark (55:38)

No, I don't either, man.

Tyrus (55:40)

Because I always. They people was like, well, how do you deal with the negative comments? I said the negative comments. I expect. I was a bad guy. I played on the road. I know what booze sound like. I enjoy it.

Mark (55:50)

Yeah.

Tyrus (55:50)

I said the worst comments are the positive ones because you start believing that. Yeah. And then once you start believing that.

Mark (55:58)

Yeah.

Tyrus (55:59)

Bad, bad. I don't comment on anything. You know, like, when I see someone, if I look at. I'm very. The older I get, the less I want anything to do with social media. But when someone is putting their stuff out there, just like it or don't like it, move on.

Mark (56:11)

Yeah.

Tyrus (56:11)

Yeah. Your two cents. You know, everyone thinks they're Dr. Phil and Dr. Drew and you're not. You just. It's easy to tell people what to do when you don't have the experience, you don't have the time, you know? And then when you actually talk to people who have walked it, who been there before you, when they start talking, you think, man, you tried to talk to me before. Like, if someone has been there and they're giving you advice, different stories. But it's also a different approach.

Mark (56:40)

It is. It is. And that's one of the things that I. Again, I always revert back because, you know, a lot of times it comes off as I'm preaching. Right. Like, and I go hey, listen, I'm just going to tell you my experience because in recovery, it's my experience. Right. It's my experience, strength and hope. Right. In recovery, that's the only thing you can give somebody. You can't give them anything else.

Tyrus (57:00)

You can't give them. Recovery is never over.

Mark (57:02)

No. It's a battle continually. Continually. And going through like. Like the first three, four, five years, man, I had this intensity to it. And then life starts creeping in, getting better. And then I forget how bad it was. I go, you know, unfortunately, with. With addiction, it's the great forgetter. You know, it says in like the big book, it talks about, like, I can't pull on my consciousness with sufficient force the humiliation of even a day ago. Right. Like. Like you were talking about earlier. It's like, know drinking, right. Like turning into that monster. It's like. Or you pass out. It's like humiliation like that then because I couldn't. I couldn't pull it in my consciousness and go, oh, man. I was a. I was an.

Tyrus (57:48)

Last night.

Mark (57:48)

I better not drink tonight. No.

Tyrus (57:50)

One thing that helped me was there was a moment I was just. Bunch of buddies hanging out at our coach's house and we got into a Jack Daniels chugging contest, which was. I was a. Idiot for doing it. And I. I had to show them because I knocked down a whole bottle and, you know, I did it.

Mark (58:06)

Yeah.

Tyrus (58:06)

And then the blackout happened.

Mark (58:08)

Yeah.

Tyrus (58:08)

And attacked friends. The only person. And the wild thing, the only person I listened to was the referee. So I don't know.

Mark (58:15)

Wow.

Tyrus (58:15)

But the ref was like, hey, man, enough. You know, he basically gave me a count. And I remember I beat up my truck. Genius.

Mark (58:21)

Oh, my gosh.

Tyrus (58:21)

But I woke up in my. Thank God. I woke up. I never was able to turn the key, but I put the seat belt on and I passed out and then threw up all over myself.

Mark (58:31)

Wow.

Tyrus (58:31)

That smell of that alcohol and that fermenting me in a car all night.

Mark (58:36)

Yeah.

Tyrus (58:37)

Whenever I see that or smell that, I'm humiliated.

Mark (58:42)

Oh, man.

Tyrus (58:42)

So luckily for me, I think that leaving me in that truck that night and not taking care of me was probably the best thing ever because that smell never left my truck. I ended up having to trade it in because it just. But every time I would go somewhere, if I even smelled that.

Mark (59:01)

Oh. Instant, it would just.

Tyrus (59:03)

I couldn't even walk down the aisle with alcohol for a good six months because I would just. That smell just reminded me of how I let all my friends down.

Mark (59:12)

Wow.

Tyrus (59:13)

Coach down. I said horrible things. To his. I mean, I was everything, you know, and it was those moments where you're just like a certain. Even to this day, if I ever a smell of that type of alcohol or whatever, I immediately revert back and I'm always like, oh, oh my God.

Mark (59:29)

It's a horrible experience.

Tyrus (59:30)

Yeah. But it's also. It never happened like that again, you know, like there's a. Yeah. You know, it wasn't. I wish it was a be all, do all change moment. But there was, you know, because you get caught up like, oh, I got shit faced drunk in Germany and beat up a bar and of course everyone loved it, you know, and remember Chris Jericho and Randy Orton? Everyone was like, yeah. You know, and. And poor bastards in Germany, they came there for a good time. I didn't know the rules of Jaeger, you know, Jaeger's different. Oh yeah. It's a time bomb. 15 shots of Jaeger and then you go, then you sit there and all of a sudden I'm, I'm representing America in World War II and I'm beating and I'm just. You laugh about it. Yeah, you laugh about it. But then, because I've been there. You've been there? Yeah.

Mark (60:17)

You think I've been there?

Tyrus (60:18)

Oh, man. And then you look back on it and I'm like, I'm ashamed.

Mark (60:21)

Yeah.

Tyrus (60:22)

You know, your buddies laugh about it because I should have been fired.

Mark (60:25)

Yeah.

Tyrus (60:25)

But they're like, oh, this, we have a monster. We can sell tickets for this guy. Just no more going to the bars, please, for a while. Yeah, yeah. But you laugh about it. You look back. I think you look back because you've grown from it.

Mark (60:37)

Yeah.

Tyrus (60:38)

But there's a lot of guys still doing that shit.

Mark (60:40)

Oh, yeah.

Tyrus (60:41)

One of the most painful things for me is a guy that I was a tough guy. He was. Bounced clubs with him. He was one of those guys, one shot, knock you out. Like he was just a big guy, body blow guy would curl up in a ball and he, you know, he's taking all kinds of gas to stay strong, stay strong, stay strong. Bouncing clubs. And then one day 55, he tried to stop somebody and he couldn't. And the guy embarrassed him and it was on video, absolutely embarrassed him and knocked him out. And it was his wife that ran and like stood like, please, yeah, please protect my husband. He. He couldn't come back from that. He could not come back from that because that was everything that he was. And he had spent his whole life, he never, every time we were like, hey, man, I remember I said to him one time, look, man, I'm not trying to tell you how to live your life, but you're not playing in the NFL. You're not boxing. Why are you taking this shit? Why are you keep taking. I have let a man is like, I got one year left in my NFL contract. I'm gonna get suspended for four days. So I'm gonna take some test or whatever so I can finish. Finish my season. And I, I understand that because you're feeding your family, I don't have to agree, but I. I get it.

Mark (61:48)

Yeah.

Tyrus (61:48)

But when all that's over and you're still doing it.

Mark (61:52)

Yeah. Still holding on to that. Yeah.

Tyrus (61:54)

That. It never ends well. And unfortunately for guys our size, how many friends do we know? Heart attacks?

Mark (62:02)

A lot.

Tyrus (62:03)

You know, and it's not just big fat guys, you know, because me, I was worried about my weight because I had got one time I was 489 pounds.

Mark (62:10)

Wow.

Tyrus (62:10)

Yeah. And. And I look back at pictures of that and I don't feel so bad about the weight. I see those. That face.

Mark (62:18)

Yeah.

Tyrus (62:19)

And I. I'm like, I just. I could hug him and tell him it's going to be okay because he doesn't know it and he's just. And you see that. Thank God I didn't end up that way.

Mark (62:28)

Yeah.

Tyrus (62:29)

Because there's something, somewhere, someone in your life left, something with you to say, this ain't right.

Mark (62:36)

Yeah.

Tyrus (62:37)

Do you ever think about, who was that? Was it a coach?

Mark (62:40)

No. So I call them lifelines. Like I like through.

Tyrus (62:43)

Through.

Mark (62:45)

When I give the hall, hall of Fame induction speech at ufc, I call them lifelines. Like, my mentor is a guy named Chris Campbell, and he was this incredible wrestler. And he would always say to me, only if you could see yourself through my eyes, you'd know what I'm talking about. Like, he had belief in me before I had belief in myself. Right. And just this power that he had, that in those moments, man, they're the thing that I clung to, that one little strand of hope that somebody gave me that I could be better than where I am or better than who I am. Right, Right. And so Chris was. Chris was probably one of the most influential black man. Right. Corporate attorney, went to Cornell Law School, Dan Gable's first NCAA champ. When Dan Gables, a coach, 1980 Olympian. Retired. Came back out, went to the Barcelona games in 1992 at 37 and won a bronze medal. That's him being a full time attorney and just as crazy, like, unworldly.

Tyrus (63:50)

Yeah. To be that Next level athletically and mentally.

Mark (63:53)

Oh, just off the charts. And it was one where it's like, I. I wanted what he had because he had something that was just different than had ever appeared in my life. Right. And it's that, you know, that belief in me that you can do this. And here's what he said to me. He goes, you might think you know what hard work is, but you have no clue. I'm going to show you, though. And he grabbed me by my hand, and he goes, I'm going to show you what hard work is. And it was the hardest I'd ever worked to achieve one. One thing. And that was like the. You know, I cling to that. I called it empirical proof. Right. Like, once that showed up in my life, I'm like, oh, my God, man. Like, what else am I capable of?

Tyrus (64:34)

Yeah. And I think I have. I was lucky. I had a lot of coaches who didn't give up on me.

Mark (64:40)

Yeah.

Tyrus (64:41)

But I. I think my lifeline. Unfortunately, he's not with us, but he's. It was Dusty Rhodes when I was with him, like, the time we spent. He would never talk to me about wrestling. He'd be like, you know, all that.

Mark (64:53)

Yeah.

Tyrus (64:53)

He's like, I'm worried about you. You remind me of me.

Mark (64:57)

Yeah.

Tyrus (64:58)

He's like, you're running around, you're all these things. He's like, you need to paint your canvas. You know, And I never. Honestly would say it to me all the time, like, paint. Paint camp. And he was like, my last day in the wwe, I think he knew that our relationship just became. And not me and him, but, like, he knew it was coming. And my last day employed, there I went just to roll around the ring. They had me off the road, and. And he shows up, and I was like, what up, boss? And he was sitting there and he. He played his music real loud so they couldn't hear what we were talking about. And I was talking about this, and he was like, I need you to learn how to paint your canvas. He's like, you. This might not be where you need to be.

Mark (65:44)

Yeah.

Tyrus (65:45)

You know, And I didn't understand that. And I thought, he's talking about being in the thing. And he's like, yeah, you. I want so much for you, but I can't compete with you. And I didn't understand. I was like, what was going on? You know, it's like, you're not defined by anything. You're defined by yourself. And he's like, I. He's like, when we're out there in the ring, he's like, you're like one of my own, like one of my sons. But when you leave the ring, I don't sleep at night, and I just. I'd like to get a good night's sleep. Please paint that canvas for me. And I remember. That when he was gone, I still hadn't painted it yet.

Mark (66:34)

Yeah.

Tyrus (66:35)

And. But I have now. You know, and that's something that you'd never know who's going to touch your life.

Mark (66:43)

No.

Tyrus (66:44)

And being a big monster and all that doesn't mean anything. And if he was here now, I would be like, how's it look? You know? And it's. The work's never over.

Mark (66:55)

Yeah.

Tyrus (66:55)

The work is never over.

Mark (66:56)

Yeah.

Tyrus (66:57)

And I want to thank you for today, man. Like I said, this was definitely supposed to be us talking about, but, you know, I needed this more important. Yeah. Thank you so much, brother.

Mark (67:10)

No, I appreciate it, brother. Thank you.

Tyrus (67:13)

Because we gotta get cool here. We gotta get.

Mark (67:14)

Yeah.

Tyrus (67:17)

But it's. And I hope one day that I'm able. You know, we think about our sons and my daughters, and I think about. I don't want them to have to ask someone else or someone else to have to come tell them, you know?

Mark (67:33)

Yeah. And that, I mean.

Tyrus (67:37)

Yeah.

Mark (67:38)

I mean, that's one of the big things is like. Like when I get, you know, like, something. My head's my head, you know, it's like, you know, it tells me stories that aren't true and all this other stuff. But the one thing that. That gets me back to being grounded is that, you know, every time that I talk to my son, it's that grounding effect of, like, what's really important.

Tyrus (67:59)

You know, I facetime with my boy every. Every day. We. We watch Looney Tune and wrestling stuff. And I'm Fortnite, and right now we're in my office. We like, it's every day.

Mark (68:11)

Yeah.

Tyrus (68:11)

And I do not get off the phone every day without saying, you're the best.

Mark (68:18)

Yeah.

Tyrus (68:18)

I love you.

Mark (68:19)

I love you.

Tyrus (68:20)

Lethal protectors signing out. You know, that's our thing every day. And I know he's going to get busy.

Mark (68:28)

Yeah.

Tyrus (68:28)

You know.

Mark (68:29)

Yeah.

Tyrus (68:29)

But it doesn't. And he's playing Travel Ball. He's 6, 4, 14. He's playing baseball. And he's starting to get all this attention and. And it doesn't matter without Clockwork. As soon as I get to my hotel, I talk to my wife and my. My daughter, and then I will FaceTime and we do the screen Share. And we watch movies and we're all hooked on the Godzilla stuff. And you know, and we're watching Monar together. Complaining about it's too mushy. Get to the fights. But I. I think he will always. No matter where I am, all my kids will know.

Mark (68:59)

Yeah.

Tyrus (68:59)

You know. And that their dad loves them. And I'm thinking about them because that's huge. Was the. That was the thing I think was the biggest creator of the hole in my chest was that no one. I felt that no one cared about me.

Mark (69:13)

Yeah.

Tyrus (69:13)

I was a nuisance to my mom. I was the reason why she couldn't get remarried. Too big. Too aggressive. I was. She was a small white woman with this giant mixed black kid and who had a smart mouth and was. You know, it was. You know. Then when she finally did meet a guy, you know, I beat him up and left home. So it was just one of those things where I never. My children will always know that they're special to me. Yeah. You know, and that's something that, like, it's. It's. That's how you break the curse.

Mark (69:42)

Yeah.

Tyrus (69:43)

You know, because my father was alcoholic, drug addict, woman abuser, womanizer, all these things. And even when the few times I talked to him twice and when I did talk to him, it was the first time I talked to him because I wanted answers. And I should have known better because the liar is never going to change. If you don't change, you don't change.

Mark (69:58)

Yeah.

Tyrus (69:58)

You know, and I remember the second time. It was from a place of. I wish you well but you missed out.

Mark (70:04)

Yeah.

Tyrus (70:05)

And I don't need you. I'm a man now.

Mark (70:07)

Yeah.

Tyrus (70:07)

I have children. And there's no lessons from you that I want to learn. And I think. You know. And his reaction was very. Just quiet. You know. And that was it. I didn't need the. I'm sorry because I forgive you.

Mark (70:20)

Yeah.

Tyrus (70:20)

That was the biggest thing was I want you to know that I forgive you. But that doesn't mean I want to know you.

Mark (70:25)

Yeah.

Tyrus (70:25)

And that's a power. Forgiveness isn't. That's one lesson. And I think you probably would echo this. Forgiveness isn't. It sounds selfish, but it's not always about them. It's about you letting go and letting them know that's. That I'm okay now.

Mark (70:39)

That's the inverse. Right?

Tyrus (70:40)

That's.

Mark (70:41)

That's the inverse of it. Like, like again, it's that thinking of. Of like why you're gonna, you know, like. Like I've let people that have hurt me. Right. Like. Like I was molested. And it's when I was 9, 10 and 11 and it. And it. Me up.

Tyrus (70:58)

Especially as boys. Don't tell.

Mark (71:00)

No. Hell no.

Tyrus (71:01)

You can't.

Mark (71:03)

Are you kidding me? Because. Because I. I got like, my dad

Tyrus (71:06)

got like it's my fault.

Mark (71:08)

Yeah. Like, so I carried that until I went and I went into treatment when I was. When I overdosed and 27 years old. Hadn't talked about it my whole entire life.

Tyrus (71:21)

You can't.

Mark (71:22)

No. Who am I going to tell?

Tyrus (71:23)

Well, your manhood's on the line.

Mark (71:24)

Oh, 100%. So. So letting that stuff out and then realizing the guy that had did it.

Tyrus (71:34)

And you're not alone.

Mark (71:35)

No, not at all. Not at all. And it's one of those things where it's like I had to come to grips with a lot of stuff. A lot of stuff. Like, you know, like, I know my parents love me and I said that there's no doubt about it. I know they did the. The best they could. My dad was an alcoholic. My mom devoted to him.

Tyrus (71:58)

So she's an enabler.

Mark (72:00)

Yeah. And so I was unparented for from age 11 to 14. My mom was taking care of my dad and my dad worked as a pipe fitter and he was out of state. My mom was taking care of him. And me and my brother Matthew were basically left alone with me and my brother. My sister. My sister, who is eight years older than us, babysitting us, but she worked full time. It was like we have no parental supervision. If you like the hungry foods in the. In the fridge.

Tyrus (72:28)

And so Hungry man dinners.

Mark (72:31)

A lot, A lot.

Tyrus (72:32)

A lot of fights over that. Yeah, a lot of those. Because it was mashed potatoes on the fridge.

Mark (72:37)

The Salisbury steak. Right.

Tyrus (72:39)

And we had in front of the

Mark (72:41)

TV corner, it was either a cherry pie.

Tyrus (72:42)

Yeah. The cherry pie was the thing. Apple cherry was where it's at. I used to get the veal.

Mark (72:47)

Yeah.

Tyrus (72:48)

Who the hell thought that was a good idea? By the way? Veal parm. The only thing I hated was Salisbury steak. That's what we saw. And those ones were always on sale. Yeah.

Mark (72:59)

Oh my gosh.

Tyrus (73:00)

I ate so many of those toaster ovens, we. My mom would leave a. Post it on the fridge with instructions.

Mark (73:05)

Wow.

Tyrus (73:06)

And that's how. Because we didn't see her. She went to work, we'd come home and she'd be. We'd come home from school about 3 o' clock and of course we want to go outside and play. Yeah. And she Left for work right around five. So we literally. And then she didn't come back till seven in the morning and a lot, you know, and she would work. Sometimes she'd work seven to seven.

Mark (73:22)

Wow.

Tyrus (73:22)

So we wouldn't see her because we'd get ourselves up for school and basically she'd be coming in. But because she was working in triage and stuff as a, as a nurse and stuff, she would work extra hours. She had to cover shifts. So there would be, there would be times where she wouldn't, you know, and then she would rely on friends.

Mark (73:38)

Yeah.

Tyrus (73:39)

To watch us.

Mark (73:39)

To watch us check.

Tyrus (73:40)

And I was above average size and I was little man of the house, you know. And then, you know, next thing you know, her room, you know, and it just. Like I said, you're not. It's a, it's a terrible thing that they. Because you're a big kid.

Mark (73:55)

Yeah.

Tyrus (73:55)

They don't realize that you're. You're still a kid.

Mark (73:57)

Still a kid. Yeah.

Tyrus (73:59)

And I had to take care of my brother.

Mark (74:00)

Huge.

Tyrus (74:01)

And I had to protect my brother.

Mark (74:02)

Huge thing. Yeah.

Tyrus (74:03)

You know, and I would always. It better happen to me than him.

Mark (74:08)

Yeah.

Tyrus (74:08)

Because that was more important. Like, I protected you.

Mark (74:10)

You.

Tyrus (74:10)

I did my job. I took the beating.

Mark (74:12)

Yeah.

Tyrus (74:13)

You know, not you, not my brother. Even if he was the one on the end of it. I would run in and be like, don't, don't touch him. You know, then, you know. So. Yeah, it's a. But we broke the curse.

Mark (74:23)

Yeah. And that's the big. That's the biggest thing for me right now is like being able to give my son the tools he needs by example.

Tyrus (74:33)

How did he like the movie?

Mark (74:34)

He loved it. He actually. Really cool. So. So the first cut of the movie I saw in January of 2025. First rough cut. And so me and my brother, my brother's 12 years older than me, flew out to California. I'm in Scottsdale. He flew out from Ohio. And we go and see the small little movie theater in Beverly Hills. It's Benny, my brother, myself. And we watch the movie and I'm crying, bawling, and my brother's crying and balling. And we look out of the corner. I and Dwayne and Emily had snuck in the theater.

Tyrus (75:10)

Right.

Mark (75:11)

And so we sit down and have this like 45 minute powwow of like all these different things. They did the same thing for my son. My son ended up flying here to New York and they had a showing. Dwayne flew out from California. Emily lives here. And Benny Lives here and. And he calls me immediately afterward and he's like, dad, oh my gosh. He's got your. He's got your speech pattern, he's got your walk, he's got your mannerism. He's got. And this is what broke me. He's like, hey, Pop, he's also got your heart.

Tyrus (75:42)

Yeah. I think it was the greatest performance of Rock's career by far. And he has a lot of things that were great.

Mark (75:48)

Yeah.

Tyrus (75:49)

It wasn't. Oh, you know, he's got, he's got the greatest wrestling list. I mean, it's either. It's either. It's either Hogan. Andre Macho Steamboat.

Mark (75:57)

Yeah.

Tyrus (75:58)

Rock Hogan.

Mark (75:58)

Oh, he's.

Tyrus (75:59)

Rock Hogan is one of the. I'm telling you, as a grown ass man watching that I signed to the company right after that, you know, so. And of course he's done. He's. He's his own. Oh, he's on the machine, you know,

Mark (76:11)

so I've said to him, like one of the conversations early on, I go, I said, dj, they've tried to put you in a box your whole entire life. You're only. This only can be that, only can be this, only can be that. So I go, you can, you can't be a football player. Broke that box. You have a league, right? You can't do this. You can't be an entrepreneur. You have your own, you know, Tequila brand, you have your own this, you have your own that. I go, just, you're, you're just. You don't fit in a box. Which is beautiful.

Tyrus (76:41)

Yep, he's unboxable.

Mark (76:43)

Beautiful, right? Because all of these things that. Oh, you six foot five, Samoan. What lead role do you want?

Tyrus (76:51)

Yeah, black Samoan at that.

Mark (76:52)

Yeah.

Tyrus (76:53)

What are you going to play?

Mark (76:54)

Yeah.

Tyrus (76:54)

And then he made, he changed the game.

Mark (76:57)

Whole entire narrative now.

Tyrus (76:58)

It's no longer. Because all my movie stuff, I always was like, which little white guy is killing me? That was the first. When do I die? Yeah, when do I die?

Mark (77:08)

When am I out?

Tyrus (77:09)

You know? And I'd be like, I want to do comedy.

Mark (77:11)

They're like, okay.

Tyrus (77:13)

And then, yeah, I got a couple of opportunities where I had no lines in movies, but my online presence stuff. Director is like, what would you say in that? I would say this. And they're like, okay, okay, give me this, give me this, give me this, give me this. You know, and it'd be like, oh. And I was like, he's like, well, you know, because you're a big guy, you know, you're not Supposed to be. We're the funniest. We have to watch. All you idiots.

Mark (77:31)

Yeah.

Tyrus (77:32)

Who you think's protecting you?

Mark (77:33)

Yeah.

Tyrus (77:33)

When you're being dumb at the bar, it's us. You know, so that's. And he's. Like. I said he did. People are always going to. Anytime you show something real.

Mark (77:49)

Yeah.

Tyrus (77:49)

I always love the negative reactions because that means people aren't ready for that.

Mark (77:55)

Not at all.

Tyrus (77:55)

He didn't and he did. And that. That movie is one of those ones that it's. I call it an evergreen.

Mark (78:01)

Yeah.

Tyrus (78:02)

It's never going to get old.

Mark (78:03)

Nope.

Tyrus (78:03)

And it's going to be something that a lot of young men are going to be like. You know, I think it's a. Resonates

Mark (78:11)

with people that's like his performance. It has an emotional connection and context where it's like. It resonates.

Tyrus (78:19)

But he didn't try to be rock playing. You didn't. Which was something that he was always criticized for. He's like Clint Eastwood.

Mark (78:25)

Yeah.

Tyrus (78:25)

And Arnold Schwarzenegger. He's just that himself in the movie. Different words with different words. Right. And then all of a sudden. I think it was uncomfortable. Yeah. People were expecting the eyebrow.

Mark (78:36)

Yeah.

Tyrus (78:36)

In the fight. Or, you know. No. He humbled. He became.

Mark (78:44)

Yeah.

Tyrus (78:44)

He became it. That was. He was an actor.

Mark (78:50)

He. And that was. You could. So it's crazy. What's crazy is that looking at it the first time, I'm almost like squinting at the screen because I go, like. Like trying to see the rock.

Tyrus (79:04)

Yeah. Cause you're waiting for.

Mark (79:05)

I'm waiting for it. And I'm going that. Like, he's totally. Something different. Different. And. And I had to go like, I'm seeing the rock in there. But I have to like, concentrate to see him because he's. He's something else.

Tyrus (79:19)

Something in you. He shared.

Mark (79:23)

Yeah.

Tyrus (79:24)

And it.

Mark (79:25)

Yeah.

Tyrus (79:26)

And he. He allowed it to come out.

Mark (79:28)

Well, we. We've talked about just the. The connection of all the similarities in. In so many different capacities and. And the emotional struggle and the context of what it is and that. That struggle and that. You know, just. There's so many things that he's gone through where. Like. Oh, my gosh. Like, they're parallels, you know, of different contexts. Right. But. But just this beautiful. Like, I was just so proud, like.

Tyrus (79:56)

And you should be.

Mark (79:56)

Cause he didn't phone it in.

Tyrus (79:58)

No, he didn't. He didn't phone it in. And he didn't take the easy way out.

Mark (80:02)

Nope. I told people. I go. Because here's what I do know that doesn't happen by accident. No, he didn't, like, fall off an acting truck. And like, he. I go, that's work, bro.

Tyrus (80:14)

He had to dig deep. Oh, that's. He had. He had to sit down with some of his own demons.

Mark (80:19)

Oh, yeah.

Tyrus (80:19)

And I guarantee you.

Mark (80:20)

Oh, yeah.

Tyrus (80:21)

Probably telling you he's in a better place mentally after, because it's cleansing. I'm sure while he was going through it, it was hell.

Mark (80:27)

It.

Tyrus (80:27)

Oh, because you're. You're walking through your own demons. Oh.

Mark (80:30)

And. And so part. Part of it, I was only on set, like, that of the time, because the producers, like, you gotta understand, and it's, like, really hard to do a role when the person who's alive is on set.

Tyrus (80:45)

Yeah, I wouldn't do that. That's not me. That's why it won't be a movie on my life, because I'll be like, I don't even look like that, bro. Like, you see the script. I would never say it that way.

Mark (80:57)

So. So I. So I go ahead, listen. So they had fight week. Yeah, that was the compromise. He goes, but we're going to have you up for fight Week. Because dj, I'm like, bro, I go, I'm not going to be able to teach 25 years of wrestling, but here's what I can do. So I got with the stunt team and just walked them through all these different little aspects of how Benny was going to film, how it was going to look, how it had to be. Because I said, you're going to get. You're going to get. MMA fans are going to watch this.

Tyrus (81:21)

So you're technically to pick you apart to find one. No one throws a horse like that. He didn't turn his wrist.

Mark (81:27)

Exactly. So I go, I'm going to give you basic fundamentals. And so part of the stunt team, there was, like, six different guys that had different, different, different backgrounds. So it gave them, like, you know, one was martial arts, one was like striking, one was this, one was gymnastics, one was. So they all had this, like, very diverse. And I go, just have this, this, this and this. And they all put it together. And, like, watching the product, I'm like, I did. That was actually really good. Because he didn't want to do cgi. He didn't want to use a stunt double. Tanawai, who's. Who's. His stunt double is like, identical to their cousins.

Tyrus (82:00)

And I'm sure a lot of his. When he first got into wrestling. Most good trainers make you go through the amateur style yeah. Like, you have to do the basics before you earn the right to do the other stuff, you know, so. And I remember my first trainer, Bill Demont. It was all. That's all we did. And I was like, when are we getting to.

Mark (82:18)

Yeah, I want the fun.

Tyrus (82:21)

You're going to take these 45 fireman carries for a while, and then we're going to show you where to shoot the leg and this, that, Whatever.

Mark (82:26)

Yeah, yeah.

Tyrus (82:26)

He would use my strength against me. I didn't appreciate that at all, Coach, because I was big. I was just. I'm just going to get up. He's like, oh, not if I do this. I'm like, how about. All right, untie me. You know? And I remember one time I tried to counter him, and I was lucky because I had. Jake Hager was training with me. We were on development together, and he was an all American wrestler out of Oklahoma. So he was giving me little tips because he was making me look bad, right? Yeah. And I finally countered him, and I'm like, now what? Now what? And then he reached out with his thumb and he pushed my eyelid. He pushed my eyelashes and eyelid went underneath my finger. I remember running in the bath, I'm flashing water in my face, and I come out and I'm like, why did you do that? And he's like, you're stronger than me.

Mark (83:06)

Yeah.

Tyrus (83:06)

You know, and I just. Of course. Nowadays.

Mark (83:09)

Yeah. Right.

Tyrus (83:09)

No, no, I. I thank you, Coach. But I was. And I do that to my kids now where they're trying to do. Although I wouldn't do that to him because when you. When your eyelashes are gone. Yeah. And under your eye, you panic. I don't know who you are. I could not, because everyone was like. His reaction was like, yeah, you know. You know, and it's gone. Their eyelashes are gone. That's funny. You know, I come out of the thing and he's like, all right, you. I'm. I'm taking it.

Mark (83:35)

I'm taking five.

Tyrus (83:36)

I'm just Give you five. Okay. I'm thankful for my long lashes, but, yeah, there's nothing worse than your eyelashes scratching your eyeball. It's just a weird kind of a thing, man. This has been. Please come back.

Mark (83:49)

No, I seriously, thank you for having me, man.

Tyrus (83:51)

No, this was cool, man. I needed this today.

Mark (83:53)

So this is again, man. It's like the universe just everything's showing up when it's supposed to be here.

Tyrus (83:58)

Yep. Two strangers ended up brothers, man. Thank you.

Mark (84:00)

Thank you, man.

Tyrus (84:01)

Thank you so much. I know Harry Is, is going to have a heart attack if he can't ask you a couple questions.

Interviewer (84:06)

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Tyrus (84:08)

Because look at him, he's like, yeah, he's.

Interviewer (84:14)

All right. So I have a quote from you after you won your heavyweight title. This is UFC 15.

Mark (84:22)

Okay.

Interviewer (84:23)

And I just went back and I was watching a few of your fights, and when you said this, it really stuck out to me. You said, you're talking about MMA and you said, this is an art. There are world class athletes here and this is what we do for a living. And to say that that early on, like, took a lot of courage because people really just saw it as human cockfighting.

Mark (84:46)

Yeah.

Interviewer (84:47)

They were like, this isn't a legit sport. What made you say that?

Mark (84:54)

You know, part of my narrative at the very beginning, I had this idea that I was going to set a standard, right. For what a professional mixed martial artist was. And part of that was acknowledging the idea that this wasn't what you think it is. Right. The general public thought it was cockfighting, thought it was this barbaric thing. But it's an art, like what you do, you may look at it and go, oh, my God. Like, oh, wow. But it takes skill to execute some of that stuff. Right. And so I was trying to set a precedent and a standard that didn't exist. So part of it. And this, I've used this narrative before. It's like, like my first really big, huge press conference in Japan. Everybody that's at the press conference, that's a fighter. Sweatsuit. Sweatsuit. Sweatsuit. T shirt. T shirt. And I'm in a thousand dollar Calvin Klein suit that I can't afford. Right. But that's what I wanted. I wanted to represent, like, this is how you show up at a press conference. This is how you speak. This is, you know, how you show up in the ring, more importantly. Right. And this is how you compete, you know, all the way across the board. I was trying to set a standard because professional. I could ask for more money. Barbaric. And pay you like, you know, they pay you in hats and T shirts and popcorn, you know, so. So that was part of the narrative I was trying to create back then.

Interviewer (86:21)

Because it's not even a question today.

Mark (86:23)

No, it's.

Interviewer (86:24)

It's a professional sport.

Mark (86:25)

You're the only way you achieve that. Like get. Getting to where you're on broadcast, you know, where you're part of the live event. You are a trained professional.

Interviewer (86:38)

And I wanted to ask you specifically about your ADCC experience.

Mark (86:42)

Yeah.

Interviewer (86:44)

If you were to Change the rule set. Because now there's all these organizations popping up. Well, there's for freestyle wrestling, it's raf. There's like the Craig Jones Invitational for Jiu Jitsu. There's always been ADCC. If you were a UFC BJJ, now is the UFC's investing in it. If you were to change the rule set to make it more entertaining for the novice, how would you do?

Mark (87:13)

Wow, that's a good one. You know, you, you have to be able to reward aggression. You have to be able to reward like, attacks, right? Like either attacks on the ground or attacks, you know, on your feet. Without the. Because, you know, I was a positional wrestler, control wrestler. Like in adcc. When I was doing it, the emphasis was control. Like, like the first ADCC I did in 1998, I, I read, I stood. It's just read the rules over and over and over and over again because I had to develop a strategy of like, how to, how. Now it's a chess game. Once I understood the rules, it's like, okay, how do I execute and then have the physicality to be able to go out and execute? It was control and pass. There was nothing else I could do. Right, right. And so it's like, I, I, I'm not gonna learn all these jujitsu holds in a matter, you know, it's like one of those things where I'm like, okay, how can I be them? I can beat him by controlling them, which wrestlers do really well. But it's not very fan friendly, you know, when you're watching to, you know, guy control. Because you, you know, unless you understand what's going on, you look at it and go, that's boring.

Tyrus (88:19)

Right?

Mark (88:20)

You know, but you and I can look at it and go, oh my gosh, he's almost got it. Right. And that's the fan base. Where it's heading is it has, it's an educated fan base now. So you, you, I can be in a bar and watch people like squirm on their seats as somebody's trying to get a hold old watching a UFC event because they understand it, you know. And so, you know, changing the rules ADCC would be to have more, more you get rewarded for aggression, for attacks, you know, and, and again, that would be like a point system either, you know, in wrestling, like you could do like, you do passivity calls, you know, and that's one of the criteria for matches that end in the tie. You know, somebody that's more aggressive, somebody that's, that stalls more, you know, and Stuff like that. So you could have, I believe a trade off like that would work. But having it completely fan friendly for a novice fan to understand what's going on, it would be difficult.

Interviewer (89:18)

It's hard to do.

Mark (89:18)

It would be difficult.

Interviewer (89:19)

And you mentioned an educated fan base.

Mark (89:21)

Yeah.

Interviewer (89:21)

And I heard that even in the old days, with pride, like when you'd pass the guard, the fans would, they would clap because they understood what that actually completely understood in the us everyone was just like, what are they doing?

Mark (89:33)

So, so this is, this was one of the things that's most disarming going over Japan. Some of the arenas were 50, 60,000 people in them. That's crazy.

Interviewer (89:42)

Yeah.

Mark (89:43)

Like just silly. Yeah. My coach could talk to me this, this softly and I could hear him. That's crazy because the fans quiet until you did something and then they would all cheer. Yeah. And then quiet again.

Interviewer (89:58)

Yep.

Mark (89:59)

Like, like when you're competing, it's really offsetting when you first are in there because you're expecting like the American experience of loud music. This, you had loud music stuff, but loud crowd in this consistency of noise.

Tyrus (90:13)

Nope.

Mark (90:14)

Once you start, it was like, respect. It was like watching an opera.

Tyrus (90:18)

Right.

Mark (90:18)

You know, it's like, you know, quiet, good, teen over, you know. So it was interesting in terms of

Interviewer (90:25)

like your mindset when you were going into competing. Like, I've competed a little bit and I've like played around with going in with different attitudes of either being like really calm or getting super amped up or getting in this mode of like it's me or him. Like, what did you find was the best balance?

Mark (90:42)

You know, a lot of it was like internally you have a chat, right. Like your mind's running and you're talking to yourself. And, and for me it was, I always had to frame the language my head was talking to me with. So the simplest example would be like, like people go, you nervous before you go out? I go, no, I'm excited, I'm anticipating it. I've trained for this. Right. Like it's this anticipation. I'm not nervous, I'm not scared. You know, it's this anticipation of doing something that I train and work really hard for. So it's framing this language to fit what's going on or how you want to compete. And the only thing I would try to control is like the first like in my mind, just the first like 15 seconds or 30 seconds of the fight of like how I'm breathing, you know, pace, intensity, you know, focus, what I'm looking for. And then everything else you get in a flow, right? Like, so I would. I would visually just look at that first, like, 30 seconds of, like, what I wanted to hap, Go out and establish control center mat dominance, you know, however I wanted to present it. And then from there, you just start flowing. Like, my body and mind just start figuring out, okay, here's how I'm gonna attack you. Here's how I'm gonna, you know, go about it.

Interviewer (91:59)

You're like, here's the thing I've been doing for 20 years. Yep.

Mark (92:02)

You know? Yep.

Interviewer (92:03)

Yeah, that helps. Obviously, it's not like I. I'm competing in local jiu jitsu tournaments.

Mark (92:07)

Still helps.

Interviewer (92:07)

I still try to, like, you know, But I really appreciate you taking the time. It's a pleasure to meet you.

Mark (92:11)

Oh, thank you.

Interviewer (92:13)

And welcome to Planet Tyrus.

Tyrus (92:15)

There we go.

Interviewer (92:15)

That's an episode.

Mark (92:16)

It's been a great experience.

Tyrus (92:17)

Awesome.

Interviewer (92:17)

Thanks, Mark.

Mark (92:18)

You're welcome.

Interviewer (92:18)

Appreciate it.